#emc | Logs for 2011-04-24

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[00:00:08] <andypugh> Nice, but I don't want to think why a Urology department invented it.
[00:00:12] <Tsingi1> heh, there ya go
[00:00:23] <Tsingi1> andypugh: do you want to know
[00:00:25] <Tsingi1> ?
[00:00:34] -!- Valen [Valen!~Valen@ppp121-44-184-217.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #emc
[00:01:38] <Tsingi1> When I was a teenager, I had a woman doctor, friend of family, I had a urinary track infection, she thought I hd VD, stuffed a q tip in there "I have to make a slide!"
[00:01:48] <Tsingi1> I'm now pretty sensitive about stuff like that.
[00:02:20] <andypugh> TMI
[00:02:32] <Tsingi1> LOL! Consider it a warning.
[00:02:59] <atom1> not sensitive enough to not tell the world
[00:03:19] <Tsingi1> Ahh, you play with arduinos too, my boss fools with those.
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[00:03:39] <andypugh> I might have a try at making a ball worm, it's rather nice. (The page has been updated since the last time I looked)
[00:04:22] <cradek> the ball worm is awesome
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[00:05:19] <andypugh> I think they are missing a trick, it could be fully-enveloping. You can put them together in the case of a conventional one, but the balls solve that problem.
[00:06:06] <andypugh> (Sorry, you _can't_ put together a conventional fully-enveloping worm (it is shape-locked)
[00:06:41] <andypugh> Imagine an hour-glass shaped worm with internal ball return.
[00:07:16] <andypugh> Nice job for a small 5-axis mill.
[00:09:10] <andypugh> Ooh! I want it, it can join the family: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160577696111#ht_500wt_1151
[00:09:49] <andypugh> OK, it's a small family: https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs?pli=1#5584383602073848802
[00:10:33] <Tsingi1> I wondered what those were
[00:10:47] <andypugh> Boring heads
[00:11:03] <andypugh> The most beatifully-made things I have ever seen.
[00:11:20] <andypugh> (Especially the older UPA4 one)
[00:13:45] <andypugh> I want to see a UPA1 I think they must be tiny.
[00:15:09] <Tsingi1> andypugh: What do figure is the coolest thing you've made/
[00:15:12] <Tsingi1> ?
[00:15:21] <andypugh> You see the plungers in the top of the rotating ring on the big one in my photo? Those set the feed-per-rev. They are geared together in pairs with tiny spur gears so that when you push one down, the partner pops up.
[00:15:26] <Tsingi1> You wouldn't know I type for a living.
[00:16:04] <Tsingi1> I don't get boring heads.
[00:16:13] <andypugh> Interesting question.
[00:16:27] <andypugh> I am still tooling up to make cool things.
[00:16:37] <Tsingi1> making tols is cool
[00:16:40] <Tsingi1> tools
[00:16:57] <Valen> andypugh: i like your interface ;->
[00:16:57] <andypugh> I think I like the stairs in my parent's house the best.
[00:17:03] <Tsingi1> I spent the day making clamps for my rotary head, for lack of anything else to do.
[00:17:20] <Tsingi1> stairs?
[00:17:40] <Tsingi1> I've made some cools stairs
[00:17:44] <andypugh> http://www.bodgesoc.org/Slaithwaite2/end_stairs.JPG
[00:18:34] <Tsingi1> Stone walls?
[00:18:35] <andypugh> (Not those, though, they are stylistically similar, but smaller, at the other end of the house)
[00:18:52] <andypugh> What else would you make walls from?
[00:18:57] <Tsingi1> hehe
[00:19:01] <Tsingi1> Sorry
[00:19:30] <Tsingi1> I've built freestanding stone walls, but never a house:)
[00:19:41] <andypugh> Heck, it's got a stone roof! http://www.bodgesoc.org/Slaithwaite2/Front.JPG
[00:20:00] <Jymmm> andypugh: where is that?
[00:20:20] <Tsingi1> awesome
[00:21:06] <andypugh> Jymmm: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=HD7+5XA&aq=&sll=51.58277,0.505&sspn=0.009693,0.018132&g=SS13+1RT&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Huddersfield+HD7+5XA,+United+Kingdom&ll=53.613497,-1.917224&spn=0.000578,0.001133&t=h&z=20
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[00:21:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: Must be awfully damp and cold
[00:22:26] <andypugh> No, when the walls are 3' thick they work well.
[00:22:52] <andypugh> It's a lovely place to be.
[00:22:59] <Jymmm> ah, cool
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[00:23:21] <andypugh> Main page
[00:23:23] <andypugh> http://www.bodgesoc.org/slaithwaite.html
[00:24:04] <andypugh> When you consider that my dad made a forge to make his own door hinges, you can explain why I am me.
[00:24:09] <Valen> lol
[00:24:26] <Valen> did he need paticularly special door hinges?
[00:24:43] <andypugh> Yes, face-mounted H-pattern
[00:25:40] <andypugh> For that period (1450 or thereabouts) the door hinges nail into the face of the door and the frame.
[00:26:04] <Valen> so a somewhat hidden hinge
[00:26:05] <Tsingi1> andypugh: Working on getting a forge built out at friends farm. We built a clay bread oven, Quebec style.
[00:26:24] <andypugh> Valen: No, completely visible.
[00:26:24] <Valen> still needed a forge not a CnC ? ;->
[00:26:41] <Jymmm> CNC Forge!
[00:26:51] <mozmck1> My dad has a forge that I used to pound iron on. I have a decent anvil now and plan to build a forge soon.
[00:27:11] <andypugh> Nothing else quite gives the right texture.
[00:27:12] <Tsingi1> Really need to get some pics of that oven. It has a steel frame, so if the foundation heaves, we pick it up with the fork and level it again.
[00:28:11] <mozmck1> Tsingi1: pics would be nice. I have a pile of brick with the plan to build an oven some day.
[00:28:17] <andypugh> No idea if it is heave or what, but some rooms in that house have one corner a foot higher than the other. And they are not big rooms.
[00:28:50] <Tsingi1> mozmck1: we did a fine job, if I may say so, it works very well.
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[00:29:30] <andypugh> (thinks) No, it can't be heave, the house is built on bedrock. In fact the bottom couple of feet of one corner of the kitchen actually is bedrock, just dug out inside and outside.
[00:29:49] <Tsingi1> I'll get pics next time I go out, it was getting on winter before we got if finished, bunch of old women about design decisions.
[00:30:06] <amperbiguous> Is there a common reason why the global named variables (i.e. #<_x>) don't exist?
[00:30:27] <andypugh> Which version?
[00:30:29] <amperbiguous> when I do a (debug, #<_x>) I get a ######
[00:30:30] <Tsingi1> funny name for a variable
[00:30:45] <amperbiguous> 2.4.6
[00:31:20] <andypugh> Tsingi1: #<_x> is meant to return the current X coordinate, I think. But only in 2.5 (or maybe even 2.6)
[00:31:23] <amperbiguous> #5420 also gives the same results
[00:31:44] <andypugh> #5420 is a 2.5 feature.
[00:33:01] <andypugh> Currently we are in the situation of having a 2.4 release, a not-quite-released 2.5 and a full-of-nice-toys but flaky 2.6
[00:33:09] <amperbiguous> hmm.. As in, the stable release doesn't have it...
[00:33:17] <amperbiguous> heh.
[00:33:49] <andypugh> I believe you can have 2.5 as a deb, through apt.
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[00:34:12] <amperbiguous> right. well, I've been trying for awhile to get a custom compile with the trunk code for rtai and emc2... (SSE disabled error issues though...)
[00:34:25] <andypugh> I have been using it for a year or so, I wouldn't sell it, but I am definitely happy to use it.
[00:35:40] <andypugh> amperbiguous: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,9/id,8287/lang,english/
[00:35:59] <amperbiguous> when compiling the trunk, I keep getting these errors on the same system that I am able to run a live-cd installed version: insmod: error inserting '/home/dinh/workspace/emc2-dev/rtlib/rtapi.ko': -1 Unknown symbol in module
[00:35:59] <amperbiguous> Realtime system did not load
[00:35:59] <amperbiguous> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[00:35:59] <amperbiguous> RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
[00:36:00] <amperbiguous> ./scripts/emc: line 406: 10173 Segmentation fault $HALCMD stop
[00:36:01] <amperbiguous> RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
[00:36:04] <amperbiguous> ./scripts/emc: line 406: 10174 Segmentation fault $HALCMD unload all
[00:36:05] <amperbiguous> RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
[00:36:33] <andypugh> amperbiguous: Follow that link, you can apt-get install compiled packages.
[00:37:11] <amperbiguous> doing so now... Still boggles me why I am having issues compiling it properly though... I have the lapic flag etc...
[00:38:13] <Tsingi1> andypugh: sorry, distracted. Is that a gcode variable?
[00:38:20] <andypugh> it's magic, you have to sacrifice the right chickens (I think that their political alliegance matters)
[00:39:09] <andypugh> Tsingi1: There is (in the 2.6 branch at least) a set of pre-defined global g-code variables which return system information.
[00:39:53] <andypugh> EMC2 has allowed text-labelled G-code variables for some time. (Though they may look unusual if you are used to purely-numeric ones)
[00:40:22] <andypugh> (Might be in 2.5 too, I have not been paying attention)
[00:41:30] <Tsingi1> I was just thinking 'c'
[00:42:33] <andypugh> cradek: For some reason I think you might like this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260770857390#ht_500wt_1151
[00:42:45] <Tsingi1> I've written cad systems, but nothing so complex as to drive a milling macine, or even 3d, but this is why I must learn gdoce first.
[00:43:04] <Tsingi1> right after I learn to type
[00:43:05] -!- rooks has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish.]
[00:43:34] <andypugh> Tsingi1: Have you found HeeksCAD? (Free Open Source CAD package)
[00:43:51] <Tsingi1> I have it in notes
[00:44:02] <Tsingi1> Haven't looked at it.
[00:44:21] <Tsingi1> I'm an old schoold c coder, but I've discovered python, it's pretty powerful.
[00:45:32] <amperbiguous> andypugh: I found the right chicken... rtapi.conf apparently got autoconfigured with the module values blank... copied the info from /etc/emc2/rtapi.conf and it now launches
[00:46:28] <amperbiguous> so then the question is posed: scripts/rtapi.conf says "Don't edit this".... err... then what is the kosher way?
[00:46:47] <andypugh> SMI?
[00:47:08] <amperbiguous> SMI doesn't seem to launch properly...
[00:47:58] <amperbiguous> after realtime start -> insmod rtai_smi.ko -> insmod: error inserting 'rtai_smi.ko': -1 No such device
[00:49:11] <andypugh> There is a file which generates rtapi.conf (I think). That also says that yo shouldn't edit it, but at least if you do then it will stay edited.
[00:49:14] <Tsingi1> andypugh: I have a buddy in england who builds all sorts of cool shit, he doesn't have a cnc, but he's 200 miles from Manchester.
[00:49:42] * Tsingi1 <-- Canuk
[00:49:48] <andypugh> 200 miles from Manchester covers 90% of the country,
[00:50:04] <Tsingi1> heh, hyeah, In Canada, it's just down the road.
[00:50:05] <amperbiguous> ap: rtapi.conf.in ; I'm trying to figure out the "emc way" so I can hopefully soon be contributing code....
[00:50:54] <andypugh> Tsingi1: Your next king gets married on Friday :-)
[00:51:11] <Tsingi1> Apparently, the queen is fairly hot.
[00:51:34] <andypugh> Much more so than the current one, that's for sure.
[00:54:40] <Tsingi1> andypugh: what time is it there?
[00:54:51] <andypugh> 0153
[00:55:02] <Tsingi1> ahh, not as late as I thought.
[00:55:17] <Tsingi1> All my servers at work are on your time, Zulu.
[00:55:38] <andypugh> We are currently Zulu +1
[00:55:43] <Tsingi1> Which is a bunch of black guys in africa, funny name for a time slot.
[00:55:44] <andypugh> I disapprove.
[00:56:15] <Tsingi1> They probably don't care what time it is.
[00:56:42] <andypugh> I think we should use GMT all year round, and if sunrise and sunset don't suit, change the time you do stuff, rather than lying about what time it is.
[00:56:50] <Tsingi1> I concur
[00:57:14] <jdhNC> s/GMT/EST/
[00:57:34] <atom1> s/EST/CST
[00:57:44] <Tsingi1> s/concur/agree/
[00:57:57] <andypugh> Aye, you have your own mean solar time. Use it, bit use it all year.
[00:58:23] <atom1> yeah and i really hate the latest change they made here
[00:58:35] <atom1> extending the dst
[00:59:42] <Tsingi1> It was a Canadian that came up with time zones, an American came up with DST
[01:00:30] <andypugh> I guess it wouldn't have been us, we would have just said "use our time"
[01:00:42] <Tsingi1> Heh, so would the americans.
[01:01:00] <andypugh> I was surprised to find that India is on a half-hour.
[01:01:08] <Tsingi1> It all comes down to railroads, which are somehow linked to a horses ass.
[01:01:18] <Tsingi1> Newfoundland is
[01:01:42] <Tsingi1> On a half hour that is
[01:02:01] <andypugh> Yes, but India is big enough that so much will be wrong that half an hour makes no sense
[01:02:21] <Tsingi1> Newfoundland manages all the air traffic over the northern Atlantic.
[01:02:24] <andypugh> Hmm, around this time next year I will sail into yesterday.
[01:02:28] <Tsingi1> andypugh: agreed
[01:02:38] <Tsingi1> You sail?
[01:02:54] <andypugh> I am learning to sail.
[01:03:09] <Tsingi1> I'm a sailor, at least I was before I moved to Ottawa.
[01:03:30] <andypugh> Next year I will sail from China to San Francisco, so hopefully will have learned how by then.
[01:04:51] <Tsingi1> Totally cool, What I want to do eventually is have a boat capable of making it's own repairs and parts, one of the reasons for the CnC.
[01:05:26] <Tsingi1> But we've fucked the weather up pretty good, I hope you're ready for that.
[01:06:16] <Tsingi1> Need crew?
[01:06:53] <Jymmm> amperbiguous: .ca to sf ???
[01:06:57] <Jymmm> .cn
[01:07:07] <Jymmm> bah
[01:07:16] <Jymmm> andypugh: .cn to sf, when?
[01:07:39] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'll be sure to have a big "YOU SUCK" sign waiting for you in SF
[01:07:40] <andypugh> March 2012
[01:08:24] <Jymmm> andypugh: whos sponsoring you?
[01:08:26] <Tsingi1> I've been to SF, really cool place, but the americans don't want me anymore, something about being an anarchist.
[01:09:04] <andypugh> Tsingi1: I am paying, it's a Round the World race for rich numpties. Anyone with the money can sail around the world, no matter how hopeless. I am not rich enough to do the full thing.
[01:09:41] <Tsingi1> awesome that you can do that. I am totally envious. I've barely sailed on the ocean, although I have.
[01:09:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: heh, so how many are going?
[01:09:55] <andypugh> http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/index.php/Home
[01:10:11] <Jymmm> andypugh: your boat?
[01:10:17] <andypugh> 10 boats, 20 crew at any one time, 500 total crew
[01:10:28] <Tsingi1> I've saled in OZ.
[01:10:38] <Tsingi1> sailed
[01:10:54] <andypugh> The boats belong to Robin Knox Johnston
[01:11:03] <Tsingi1> so you are doing leg 6?
[01:11:09] <andypugh> Yup
[01:11:24] <Tsingi1> god choice.
[01:11:28] <Tsingi1> grr
[01:11:32] <Jymmm> andypugh: how long are you going to be in china?
[01:11:33] <andypugh> I wanted 3
[01:12:00] <Tsingi1> yeah, taht would be cool too.
[01:12:02] <andypugh> Actually, I would love to do the whole thing, but that is £4k
[01:12:08] <andypugh> Sorry, £40k
[01:12:08] <Tsingi1> ow
[01:12:14] <Tsingi1> owwwwwwwwwwwww
[01:12:33] <Tsingi1> for taht much, I could take you.
[01:12:42] <Tsingi1> and buy the boat
[01:12:48] <mozmck1> your w key has problems...
[01:12:57] <Tsingi1> no, rented fingers
[01:13:03] <andypugh> On the plus side, you can't actually spend any money during the race, there are no shops.
[01:13:22] <andypugh> The boats cost 800k
[01:13:38] <Tsingi1> OK, maybe not THAT boat.
[01:14:05] <Tsingi1> But one taht would do the job well enough
[01:14:10] <Jymmm> andypugh: How long will it take to get across the paciic?
[01:14:14] <Jymmm> pacific?
[01:14:25] <Tsingi1> yeah, I'm curious about that too.
[01:14:57] <andypugh> 5 to 6 weeks.
[01:15:59] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well, remind us, and Good Luck, sounds like a trip of a lifetime!
[01:16:22] <andypugh> If I like it, I would really like to do the full thing.
[01:16:22] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'll buy ya a beer when you arrive in SF =)
[01:16:46] <Tsingi1> andypugh: Speedevil says he is in Fife, which is Sctoland, which I should have remembered, since I'm scots.
[01:17:22] <Tsingi1> A bunch of murdering thieves I believe is the English translation.
[01:17:28] <andypugh> Fife is not in England.
[01:17:44] <Tsingi1> I said that.
[01:17:53] <Tsingi1> I did so
[01:19:06] <Tsingi1> And I agree with Jymmm, it sounds like the trip of a lifetime.
[01:19:14] <Tsingi1> Good investment
[01:22:35] <andypugh> It's rather odd. It isn't like the UK is a particularly little-known or obscure country, but nobody seems to know what to call us. The "Country" dropdowns on web pages are always a guessing game. "United Kingdom" is correct and, most common, but that can be under U, or at the top after USA. Then sometimes we need to go to G for Great Britain (which is actually only the main island, excluding NI, IOM, Jersey as it is a geogra
[01:22:36] <andypugh> term) and occasionally you get a choice of England (no Scotland, Wales, MI, Mann)....
[01:23:24] <Tsingi1> Yeah, I always have trouble picking it out of lists, United Kingdom seems the most common.
[01:24:29] <andypugh> I blame History.
[01:24:59] <Tsingi1> If more people were up on their history, a lot of mistakes wouldn't be repeated.
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[01:41:51] <Jymmm> and England would be a penal colony ;)
[01:42:19] <andypugh> It isn't?
[01:42:43] <Jymmm> not like .au was
[01:42:46] <Tsingi1> Australia was, and look at it now!
[01:42:49] <Tsingi1> aye
[01:43:21] <Jymmm> those three fot stone walls would have iron bars on the windows =)
[01:43:24] <Jymmm> foot
[01:43:27] <andypugh> Yeah, it seemed to work out quite well.
[01:43:57] <Tsingi1> The US has more people in jail per capita than almost anyone else, gaols are private enterprise there.
[01:44:27] <jdhNC> gotta lock up those evil pot smokers
[01:44:29] <Jymmm> Tsingi1: No spare islands to ship em off to =)
[01:44:34] <Tsingi1> yup
[01:44:39] <andypugh> They have wooden bars. The house was built at a time when houses didn't have glass. It was shutters or draughts.
[01:44:46] <jdhNC> before they destroy teh entire fabric of US civiliztion
[01:44:55] <Tsingi1> Actually, that's why I'm not welcome there, got caught with some evil weed when I was a teenager.
[01:45:09] <Jymmm> Tsingi1: legal now
[01:45:09] <Tsingi1> 35 years ago
[01:45:10] <jdhNC> string him up!
[01:45:28] <Tsingi1> still, it makes me unwelcome.
[01:45:34] <Jymmm> Tsingi1: legal now
[01:45:59] <Tsingi1> Jymmm: where are you?
[01:46:04] <Jymmm> calif
[01:46:05] <andypugh> That is a slight concern I have. I am not entirely sure that I am allowed into the US having had a warrant out for my arrest..
[01:46:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: what state?
[01:46:25] <andypugh> NY
[01:46:31] <Jymmm> for?
[01:46:32] <Tsingi1> Jymmm: cool, I like it there. Been to the stinking rose?
[01:47:11] <Jymmm> no, but love garlic
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[01:47:20] <andypugh> Failing to appear in court on a Disorderly Conduct charge)
[01:47:36] <Tsingi1> Jymmm: Columbus st I think, I didn't try the garlic beer, I think that's pushing it.
[01:47:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: nothing to worry bout
[01:48:05] <Tsingi1> andypugh: I wouldn't cancel taht trip for that.
[01:48:16] <Tsingi1> but I might worry
[01:48:21] <andypugh> I would have turned up had I been in the country, and the letter had actually arrived before the court date.
[01:48:33] <Tsingi1> What are they gonna do, give you a free trip home?
[01:48:41] <andypugh> Quite.
[01:48:55] <Tsingi1> thgat would be asesome
[01:48:56] <andypugh> I am here now, and going straight home.
[01:48:56] <Jymmm> Sorry, back to China for you!
[01:48:59] <Tsingi1> awesome even
[01:49:03] <Tsingi1> LOL!
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[01:50:28] <andypugh> If they won't give me a Visa I might try to get my employer to help. I work for an American company.
[01:50:31] <tom3p> /join #emc-devel
[01:50:38] <tom3p> argh!
[01:51:07] <Tsingi1> heh, I do that a lot
[01:51:12] <tom3p> leading space
[01:51:34] <Tsingi1> I usually use the wrong slash
[01:51:48] <tom3p> andypugh, going to the fest?
[01:51:55] <Tsingi1> andypugh: Who do you work for>?
[01:52:31] <andypugh> According to Wikipedia the worlds 26th largest company.
[01:53:17] <Jymmm> P&G ?
[01:53:28] <andypugh> Ford
[01:53:46] <Tsingi1> I had a ford Cortina once.
[01:53:51] <Tsingi1> English mostly
[01:54:02] <Tsingi1> I had fun with it.
[01:54:18] <Tsingi1> But then I was 17, so anything would have done.
[01:55:35] <andypugh> Interesting to compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_revenue with http://xkcd.com/195/
[01:55:57] <Tsingi1> Ford didn't take any bailout, I respect that a lot.
[01:56:28] <andypugh> As far as I can see Alan Mulally was psyhchic
[01:56:45] <andypugh> (and he can probably spell).
[01:57:31] <andypugh> He mortgaged everything to get a big pot of cash in 2007 on the basis that he thought they would need it in 2008
[01:58:45] <Tsingi1> I didn't know that. But I have a lot to say about the bailout :)
[01:58:56] * Tsingi1 shuts up
[02:04:25] <andypugh> It's complicated, if GM and Chrysler had gone down the whole structure would have collapsed. The suppliers would have gone bust, and then the whole global auto industry would be in trouble. Every company is so near the cost edge that they are running full capacity. Nobody else could take up the slack, we could have seen the whole global car supply collapse.
[02:04:31] <andypugh> (ponder).
[02:04:56] <andypugh> That might have been quite good,
[02:06:24] <andypugh> Everyone who needs a car has one. That car could continue to work for 10 more years. Nobody _needs_ a new car
[02:06:57] <Tsingi1> IMHO a few corporations losing their charters for their behavior would be exceedingly good, but free trade will not allow that.
[02:07:02] <jdhNC> I need a new car
[02:07:21] <Jymmm> jdhNC: you get a Yugo
[02:07:23] <andypugh> I have never owned a car.
[02:07:49] <Tsingi1> I have, whe I was in High school everyone had one. times have changed.
[02:07:59] <andypugh> Yugo would have failed too, without the component suppliers
[02:08:07] <jdhNC> I was thinking of a Yukon XL actually
[02:08:26] <Jymmm> jdhNC: at $4.25/gal
[02:08:39] <jdhNC> yeah
[02:08:47] <andypugh> When I was at school we had bicycles. Nobody I knew had a car.
[02:08:50] <jdhNC> gets better mileage than my boat :)
[02:08:56] <Jymmm> heh
[02:08:57] <tom3p> yes there is 'yugo girl', right next to 'hoosier daddy'
[02:13:41] <Tsingi1> andypugh: All I have now si a bycicle, although, I am through paying alimony and planning on buying that motorbike I showed you.
[02:14:07] <Tsingi1> Although I can't see getting a boat big enough to stow it.
[02:14:43] <andypugh> Which bike was that? I lost track
[02:16:44] <andypugh> Tsingi1: Steal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirabella_V
[02:17:10] <Jymmm> OT : Does anyone have any examples of interlocking/interlacing tab designs like used in cereal or chinese takeout boxes?
[02:18:28] <Tsingi1> andy Length: 75.20 m, a little large for single hand sailing:) Nothing over 50` for me, and that's a bit big. Pretty though.
[02:18:56] <Tsingi1> I want to get a sailboat to sail itself.
[02:19:22] <Tsingi1> Damned near impossible you say? Yup, but it's worth trying.
[02:19:51] <Tsingi1> Puter + boat + cnc + cool gadgets = fun.
[02:22:30] <andypugh> Take an RC design, scale it up :-)
[02:24:22] <Tsingi1> Problem is I have a kickass job in Otawa, Ottawa is in the middle of the woods.
[02:24:34] <Tsingi1> Ever try to sail in the woods?
[02:24:47] <Tsingi1> Me either
[02:24:47] <tom3p> Jymmm, couldnt find tab joints directly but this site is full of 'em http://www.ecardmodels.com/
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[02:25:54] <andypugh> Tsingi1: Something I don't get. Lovely boat, but absolutely nothing to stop you falling off (and no reason not to have it either, in fact a rail would help you pull the foresails in) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Velsheda_solent_%28416500624%29.jpg
[02:27:01] <tom3p> oh duh google cardboard model found this http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/museum/artifacts/archives/001843.asp
[02:27:19] <Tsingi1> andypugh: yeah, I'd be changing that right off the bat.
[02:27:47] <Tsingi1> andypugh: right after killing someone to get that boat.
[02:28:30] <andypugh> I have seen pictures of J-class yachts heeled right over and wondered how much a 6" lip to brace against would cost.
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[02:33:09] <tom3p> Jymmm, this has good shots of tab construction but the site is loopy http://www.worldwideflood.com/games/Cardboard_Ark/instructions.htm
[02:38:06] <Tsingi1> andypugh: J's rule
[02:38:21] <Tsingi1> I've never had one, but I've been on them
[02:38:50] <andypugh> I would love to sail on one. I like old stuff.
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[02:40:26] <andypugh> 1450 house, 1922 Ner-a-Car, but I didn't mention this yet: http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/rcc/rcsmotor/
[02:41:41] <Tsingi1> I had a steam engine when I was a kid, and a fellwo had a steam boat near my cottage. steam engines are cool.
[02:42:42] <andypugh> Do you want to reconsider that last statement?
[02:47:19] <Tsingi1> heh, no, but I get your point,.
[02:48:07] <Tsingi1> That's actually something I could build, a steam engine.
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[02:53:52] <marcin_ose> Just got my Gecko G540s. Is anyone familiar with rewire of Xylotex box (red, black, green, blue or white to the stepper motors) to the corresponding DB9 (pin 1-9) on the Gecko?
[02:54:47] <cradek> is the problem that your steppers have 4 wires but you don't know which pairs are pairs?
[02:55:06] <Tsingi1> marcin_ose: you got more than one?
[02:55:22] <Jymmm> marcin_ose: I'd suggest that you take the time to learn rather than just copy what someone might tell you.
[02:55:43] <Jymmm> marcin_ose: Reading the G540 manual would be a big help
[02:56:16] <Tsingi1> RTFM?
[02:56:28] <Jymmm> marcin_ose: If you bought the xylotex motors, their pinout is here: http://www.xylotex.com/StepperMotor.htm
[02:56:43] <andypugh> marcin_ose: What's in that Xylotex box? I assume a PSU and black boxes?
[02:58:00] <marcin_ose> I know which are the pairs - as they are taped.
[02:58:05] <andypugh> IIRC from what you have, nothing in the Xylotex box is needed any more (I think the PSU was in the roof?)
[02:58:22] <Tsingi1> bed
[02:58:24] <ssi> cradek: I'm reading backscroll, and I saw what you wrote about a lathe roughing/finishing cycle
[02:58:27] <Tsingi1> night all
[02:58:32] <ssi> cradek: how feasible would it be to add?
[02:58:51] <cradek> it's perfectly feasible, but a lot of work
[02:59:00] <andypugh> Very feasible. Perhaps that wasn't the word you wanted?
[02:59:02] <ssi> I might look into tackling it
[02:59:12] <cradek> you have all my best wishes
[02:59:15] <ssi> ahaha
[02:59:17] <ssi> that good, eh
[02:59:35] <ssi> it would be handy to have
[02:59:40] <cradek> yep
[02:59:56] <ssi> I haven't looked at the source at all yet
[03:00:00] <ssi> perhaps I should do that before making bold statement
[03:02:48] <cradek> I know the relevant code intimately, and still think it's a fairly hard problem
[03:03:26] <ssi> if you can summarize it succinctly, what's the hard part?
[03:04:16] <cradek> you have to collect up an arbitrary number of blocks of gcode to construct a 2d shape, then run scanlines across it and find all the intersections, then generate all the correct motions
[03:04:39] <cradek> none of the interpreter does anything like that currently - it's a huge modification.
[03:05:35] <cradek> I'd start by studying the interp_queue which can queue up an arbitrary number of motions - it is currently used to give cutter compensation the lookahead it needs to find inside corners
[03:06:15] <cradek> to make your problem harder, you must be able to either generate compensated motions yourself, or cooperate with cutter comp and let it do that for you
[03:06:46] <cradek> either approach is going to be hard to get right
[03:06:53] <andypugh> I wonder if mharberlers G-code abstraction will allow ssi to move the code to somewhere more convenient?
[03:07:59] <andypugh> OK chaps, time to say goodnight.
[03:08:06] <cradek> goodnight
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[03:08:14] <jdhNC> could you lie about cutter size for the roughing pass, then run again with the right value?
[03:08:33] <ssi> yeah cutter compensation definitely makes this more complex than it ought to be
[03:08:40] <ssi> for lathe stuff
[03:09:16] <cradek> you could always just disallow comp with the roughing cycle
[03:09:33] <cradek> make the user program a single compensated finish profile himself
[03:10:09] <ssi> that'd be reasonable
[03:10:13] <cradek> but, as a wise programmer friend said -- when in doubt, do it right
[03:10:21] <ssi> :D
[03:10:50] <ssi> so how does one go about reserving a GXX word for a cycle?
[03:11:03] <ssi> is there a standard word that's used for that?
[03:11:09] <ssi> in other controls, I mean
[03:11:20] <cradek> IMO studying that would be part of the project
[03:11:27] <ssi> fair enough :)
[03:11:39] <ssi> G72 perhaps
[03:11:45] <cradek> if you can find a control that does it sanely, preferably fanuc which we remotely resemble already, using something similar would be smart
[03:12:12] <cradek> if none of them are sane or fit what you want to or can do (as you sometimes find), pick your own number and stand proud
[03:13:04] <cradek> nobody is foolish enough to think gcode is portable beyond G0/G1, and G2/G3 on a good day
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[03:14:42] <KimK> Well, it looks like it's been too long since I scaled anything. What's the trick again to "setp" a parameter from assorted values provided by ClassicLadder? Can I convert a parameter to a signal?
[03:15:46] <cradek> you can't connect a parameter to anything. only pins can be connected to nets/signals.
[03:16:51] <KimK> So with Mesa I must use the scale component, then?
[03:17:10] <cradek> I don't understand what you are asking
[03:17:23] <KimK> Since hostmot2 only has a parameter for scaling, I mean.
[03:17:37] <cradek> oh like you want a changing encoder.xxx.scale?
[03:18:01] <KimK> OK, that must be the answer. Yes, except the analog output side.
[03:18:48] <KimK> Ok, good, I'm going about it all wrong, lol. Excellent, a solution is arrived at. Thanks!
[03:18:50] <cradek> yes seems like you'll have to use a scale component
[03:19:16] <ssi> I think I need to get a better understanding of how the lathe cutter compensation works :P
[03:19:42] <cradek> lathe and mill cutter comp use exactly the same code
[03:20:21] <cradek> the only difference is lathe tools require cutter origin translation
[03:20:29] <ssi> that's what I mean
[03:20:44] <cradek> that part is trivial, it's the intersections that are hard
[03:21:24] <cradek> see near the top of interp_queue.cc for origin translation, there's even a comment.
[03:21:45] <ssi> yeah, that's what I'm looking at
[03:22:12] <cradek> that's really the only lathe-specific code
[03:23:22] <ssi> I haven't yet gone through and properly setup my tool offsets on the lathe
[03:23:32] <ssi> just the tool length X/Z offsets
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[03:59:43] <Gensor> is there much of a latency hit mith a dual boot drive
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[04:00:26] <cradek> no, other OSes on the disk will not affect anything.
[04:02:42] <Gensor> what os, and partition types are you running for max efficiency between linux and ms
[04:03:56] <cradek> sorry, I don't use windows and don't know the answer to that question.
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[04:25:39] <KimK> Gensor: That's one of those questions that if you ask 5 people, you'll get 15 answers. One popular answer is to install Windows on its own (first) drive for several reasons: So windows is happy (it wants to be first), and for easy Windows reinstalling (separately, if needed). Put Linux on drive 2, boot to drive 2 and let grub/grub2 figure out and post the boot menu.
[04:26:19] <KimK> Another answer is to do the same as above, only all on one drive. But there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat.
[04:26:58] <KimK> See? I already gave you two answers, lol!
[04:28:32] <KimK> But I have to qualify my response, like cradek, I don't really use Windows anymore, except when forced into it for some reason, and that happens less and less now.
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[07:04:31] <mrsunshine> hmm, i wonder if a sheet metal bending thingie in aluminium would be stirdy enough
[07:04:38] <mrsunshine> alu + steel for the contact areas
[07:04:53] <Jymmm> you mean a brake?
[07:08:20] <mrsunshine> yeah, i guess that would be what its called
[07:08:50] <mrsunshine> ofc, not alot of steel going into it if i would just make it out of steel :P
[07:09:05] <Jymmm> http://www.toolsplus1.com/shmetalbrk.htm
[07:09:24] <Jymmm> I have no idea what you are making.
[07:10:53] <mrsunshine> ye, its one of those ... for bending sheet metal, ive started to find a great need for one with making boxes for electronics etc
[07:11:05] <mrsunshine> as they are expensive like hell and i have sheet metal laying around for free :P
[07:11:45] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/18-inch-bending-brake-39103.html
[07:12:29] <mrsunshine> mm only problem is that i still do not live in america
[07:12:41] <mrsunshine> so i have to pay like 5x that price for something similiar...
[07:12:49] <mrsunshine> if i do not order it and wait 2 months
[07:12:57] <Jymmm> Well, somethign simular in your area
[07:13:05] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=bending+brake
[07:13:18] <Jymmm> or even use those cheap ones as ideas to make your own
[07:15:24] <mrsunshine> yeah, very very simple =)
[07:16:17] <mrsunshine> but i have to make it a tad more complex tho, as i want to be able to bend boxes, that requires that i can insert diferent bending bits and combine them to my sizes
[07:17:11] <mrsunshine> or i just outsource the box bending to a friend that has access to a full sheet metal working place :P
[07:17:15] <mrsunshine> might be a better idea :P
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[09:04:51] <MattyMatt> mm military nomenclature
[09:04:55] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kinematic-Walking-Beam-15-0L-Leadscrew-GG20-20AS-/140530254419
[09:06:01] <MattyMatt> looks like a cheap fast ballscrew to me. I've ordered 3
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[11:30:59] <mrsunshine> hmm, on a vfd, is the pot etc for speed regulation required?
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[11:51:57] <anonimasu> did anyone run a multi spindle machine with emc2?
[11:52:00] <anonimasu> and multi turret?
[11:52:01] <anonimasu> :)
[11:56:41] <jthornton> yea, rob does
[11:57:03] <anonimasu> is it very heavy to get running?
[11:57:15] <anonimasu> and do you need 2 emc's to do so?
[11:57:36] <jthornton> no, you can't have 2 emc's running at the same time
[11:57:50] <jthornton> he has a dual turret lathe
[12:30:05] <jthornton> I just inspected and nothing washed away in the monsoon we had last night
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[12:44:25] <jthornton> cool, found a parallel port cable and a C1 breakout board for the D510 and it all works... now what do I want to make with it?
[12:46:55] <Jymmm> a three headed beer tap
[12:47:19] <jthornton> to go with the 8 headed one?
[12:47:33] <Jymmm> oh
[12:47:35] <Jymmm> hmmm
[12:47:44] <Jymmm> three headed chipmunk?
[12:48:22] <jthornton> It's hard to get them to hold still in the CMM
[12:49:02] <atom1> glad you got it and not me
[12:49:08] <atom1> it's sprinkling here
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[12:50:00] <Jymmm> Um, ok make me a frame for honeycomb
[12:50:16] <jthornton> I have a couple of small divots to fill in but no water in the shop this time...
[12:51:17] <jthornton> Jymmm: that would be kinda hard to make with just a C1 breakout board unless I change some of the LED's for lasers
[12:51:56] <Jymmm> jthornton: how about a cnc drill press feeder?
[12:54:38] <jthornton> that would be fun but I don't have a CNC drill press
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[12:55:38] <Jymmm> WOW, this is kinda scarry for so many reasons... http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/breakout_board_pendant_relay_box.htm
[12:56:30] <jthornton> heh, it has a C1 board in it
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[12:59:44] <Jymmm> oh geeze.... scroll to the bottom of the page
[13:01:07] <atom1> it's fused, what more do you want
[13:01:43] <Jymmm> "Test the relay box to make sure the motor stops when the E-Stop is pressed."
[13:02:15] <jthornton> I'm guessing he learned real fast about SSR's and heat sinks lol
[13:02:49] <Jymmm> atom1: Are you sure it's fused? Yes, I see a fuse holder, but...
[13:03:10] <atom1> wired to the data line :D
[13:03:20] <Jymmm> atom1: Ah, gotcha =)
[13:03:37] <Jymmm> jthornton: How hot do they get under 15A?
[13:03:50] <Jymmm> 110v
[13:03:58] <jthornton> they get pretty hot at 15A
[13:04:00] <atom1> i'm using a cheap one on my sherline spindle motor
[13:04:11] <atom1> and it works fine by itself
[13:04:37] <atom1> i haven't stall tested it though
[13:04:38] <jthornton> not much current on a sherline spindle motor?
[13:04:57] <atom1> i doubt it
[13:05:14] <jthornton> mounting them to a metal box goes a long way for heat dissipation
[13:05:56] <Jymmm> like an outdoor rate 2 gage box?
[13:05:58] <Jymmm> gang
[13:06:21] <jthornton> I think for the time and money he spent he could have got a good used BP
[13:06:44] <jthornton> well they are not very flat so not very good for mounting
[13:06:57] <atom1> alum would be bettter
[13:07:03] <atom1> and copper best
[13:07:07] <atom1> for heat disapation
[13:07:12] <jthornton> gold is better
[13:07:22] <atom1> i haven't seen many gold heatsinks
[13:07:37] <jthornton> kinda pricy I'd guess
[13:07:38] <Jymmm> diamond is best
[13:08:15] <jthornton> geez and I thought I was a bit anal about things that guy is nuts
[13:08:28] <Gensor> he is not married
[13:08:39] <Poincare> no, graphene is best
[13:09:14] <Poincare> but didn't find graphene heathsinks either
[13:10:04] <atom1> you wanna see anal? look this guy's site over
[13:10:07] <atom1> http://www.users.uswest.net/~kmaxon/page/side/milling_machine_137.htm
[13:11:38] <atom1> it'll take you a couple days to absorb it all
[13:11:53] <jthornton> he does have a few chips on the lathe
[13:12:53] <Jymmm> http://www.users.uswest.net/~kmaxon/page/mill/mill2b.htm
[13:14:20] <Jymmm> 3D mill control software: http://www.users.uswest.net/~kmaxon/page/mill/mill2c.htm
[13:15:25] <atom1> he built an injection molding machine amongst other things
[13:15:41] <atom1> multiple robots
[13:16:29] <atom1> http://www.users.uswest.net/~kmaxon/page/side/mold28_137.htm
[13:17:27] <Jymmm> at least his cabinets look clean, even if in plexiglass
[13:17:58] <Jymmm> I think someone should tell him about 80/20 though
[13:18:29] <Jymmm> I nominate atom1 to tell him!
[13:21:34] <atom1> http://www.users.qwest.net/~kmaxon/page/side/mill107_137.htm
[13:24:20] <Jymmm> VERY NICE microscope http://www.users.uswest.net/~kmaxon/page/mill/mill12.htm
[13:24:55] <atom1> mine doesn't have the ring light
[13:25:03] <atom1> or camera
[13:25:06] <Jymmm> what about a camera
[13:25:08] <Jymmm> heh
[13:25:33] <atom1> i like my base better
[13:25:45] <Jymmm> his shop is WAY TOO CLEAN
[13:25:53] <atom1> i do regret not getting a trinocular
[13:26:04] <atom1> it doesn't stay that way
[13:26:33] <Jymmm> No, I mean it's really way too clean. not any smudges, nicks, etc on anything
[13:26:46] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/scope/scope1.jpg
[13:26:47] <Jymmm> even the floor is shiny
[13:27:04] <atom1> well if i had that type of stuff i'd probably keep it nice and shiny too
[13:27:19] <atom1> did you see what it was before a shop?
[13:27:32] <Jymmm> no
[13:27:47] <atom1> http://www.users.qwest.net/~kmaxon/page/side/mill107_137.htm
[13:27:49] <atom1> last pic
[13:28:08] <Jymmm> lol, living room
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[13:28:25] <atom1> basement family room i think
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[13:28:56] <atom1> somewhere there's pictures of him moving in the mill etc with a big crane over the top of the house
[13:29:57] <Jymmm> http://www.users.qwest.net/~kmaxon/page/mill/mill101.htm
[13:32:00] <Jymmm> oh, page 3
[13:34:20] <Gensor> Your link locked my browser up :(
[13:35:18] <Jymmm> that may not be a bad thing.
[13:35:57] <atom1> i wonder what the neighbors were thinking while he was moving in
[13:36:25] <Jymmm> Dr Frankensein I presume
[13:36:45] <Gensor> incredible tooling though
[13:37:08] <Jymmm> Out of all that junk, I'd just want the microscope.
[13:37:27] <atom1> they're only about $350
[13:37:37] <Jymmm> cool
[13:37:45] <Gensor> them measuring blocks arent cheap
[13:37:46] <atom1> his would be a bit more since it's trinocular
[13:37:51] <Jymmm> I dont have a NEED for one, just a WANT.
[13:38:05] <atom1> it's handy for soldering smt stuff
[13:38:54] <atom1> http://www.amscope.com/Stereo-BoomStand-1.html
[13:39:14] <atom1> 7 x 45 zoom is about right
[13:39:55] <atom1> they're on ebay as well
[13:41:00] <Jymmm> I used to do this (microelectronics) wire bonding... http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-3262099438073_1933_1418946
[13:41:12] <Jymmm> 0.7mil gold wire
[13:41:17] <atom1> fun
[13:41:36] <Jymmm> it kida was actually
[13:41:39] <Jymmm> kinda
[13:41:57] <Jymmm> Note: those wires should be looped up
[13:42:21] <atom1> like the left side
[13:42:35] <Jymmm> more
[13:42:54] <Jymmm> and bad bond at top row left side
[13:44:48] <Jymmm> Well, that was many moons ago
[13:48:33] <Gensor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/granite_devices/38111-sanyo_denki_p5_motor_pinout.html
[13:50:10] <Gensor> anyone willing to discuss hall sensor active for first second, then shuts down and encoder takes over due to shared output wires
[13:51:03] <Gensor> see linked pdf "P50B05010PXKS7.pdf‎ (196.9 KB, 733 views)
[13:56:06] <Gensor> I will likely post on the forum with additional information about these servos, but I and currious if emc can work with this hybrid configuration
[13:58:39] <Gensor> I must go guys, but am looking forward to your feedback. Thanks.
[14:05:39] <jthornton> I need a microscope to look at cutting edges of my tools before using them
[14:10:21] <jthornton> atom why not the 3.5-45x?
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[14:30:32] <jthornton> think this one would be good for checking cutting edges? http://store.amscope.com/sm-3tx.html
[14:32:28] <Valen> Gensor: does it do it just the once when you power up the amps?
[14:40:00] <Gensor> valen: ouch I havent left but need to. I do not know, but have a contact that might be able to reconfirm
[14:40:32] <Gensor> here is the teaser email I recieved
[14:40:34] <Gensor> Servo Dynamics sells these motors... and I believe that you can find there the encoder connections... the hall sensors, can get there power, separate from the encoder. I found they draw more power, which can cause problems reading them.
[14:40:34] <Gensor> The encoder as well should have separate power source from the halls... or if they are on the same source, make sure they are able to handle this...
[14:40:34] <Gensor> The halls will have 6 different configurations... thus they could be:
[14:40:34] <Gensor> 123
[14:40:34] <Gensor> 132
[14:40:35] <Gensor> 213
[14:40:35] <Gensor> 231
[14:40:36] <Gensor> 321
[14:40:36] <Gensor> 312
[14:40:37] <Gensor> In order to get them match to the drive, and how you wired the motor, you may just have to see which combination works, by "trial and error"...?
[14:43:55] <Gensor> my contact is....... http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffserv#p/a/u/1/C_Uy9KAMCWI
[14:45:42] <Gensor> valen: any help would be appreciative and I would be willing to ship a drive to someone with skill if need be
[14:46:27] <Gensor> Happy Easter all! I must go now :)
[14:46:32] <Valen> all i was thinking was if they only do that hall thing until they are in encoder mode then it should be ok
[14:46:38] <Valen> just power the drives up then EMC
[14:48:22] <Gensor> I will try based on your suggestion, it will be a couple weeks to make a power supply, mesa etc, pc. First I want to confirm I have a similar pinout as the diagrams, drives are in route
[14:48:43] <Gensor> whoops, servos are in route
[14:50:16] <Gensor> wait, they will work, but I am trying to get rid of the flip flop motion on startup
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[15:31:27] <MattyMatt> JT-Shop: the toolmakers microscopes I've seen have usually been enclosed
[15:31:43] <MattyMatt> to keep dirt off the optic I guess
[15:37:03] <JT-Shop> hmm, haven't seen one like that
[15:38:29] <mikegg> I had to do trial and error on my hall's too
[15:39:16] <mikegg> those look like nice servos, what are you going to put them on?
[15:41:25] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MITUTOYO-Toolmakers-Microscope-Code-176-104-/110678276934
[15:41:45] <MattyMatt> expensive, but if it doesn't work out you can turn it into a mill :)
[15:44:21] <JT-Shop> lol, I'm using a 10x loupe now
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[15:45:12] <JT-Shop> looks quite a bit more than I need to determine if I want to chuck a tap or not :)
[15:46:00] <JT-Shop> a buddy of mine has a machine shop and the guy that runs his VMC's only taps about 1 thread deep then finishes by hand...
[15:46:25] <JT-Shop> I asked him why and he said he is scared of braking the tap again...
[15:46:54] <JT-Shop> I said does he look at the tap with a loupe before using it? he didn't look at them.
[15:51:42] <MattyMatt> one day I'll be tapping stuff more valuable than my tap :) not yet tho
[15:52:36] <JT-Shop> a good quality sharp tap is the key to rigid tapping
[15:55:50] <MattyMatt> I've never seen a rigid tap using the half turn forward, quarter turn back method. is that deadly?
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[15:58:19] <JT-Shop> no need for that if you have the correct tap
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[16:08:50] <ssi> ya I power tap with a hand drill all the time... I break far fewer taps with a drill than I do by hand
[16:09:10] <ssi> although I won't buy anything but name brand quality taps anymore, that seems to be the secret to not breaking taps
[16:10:04] <MattyMatt> yeah I've been buying individual good ones, and they are all fine after some fair abuse, like hobbing reprap pinchbolts
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[16:12:03] <MattyMatt> I'm making a rig to do that less abusively tho, by turning the work and the tap together, like a proper hob
[16:12:15] <ssi> I bought a box of sorensen 10-32 taps off ebay awhile back
[16:12:21] <ssi> I think it's a box of 12
[16:12:26] <ssi> and they're the best taps I've ever used
[16:12:33] <ssi> they have some kind of very slippery light grey coating on them
[16:12:39] <ssi> and I can't break one, no matter how much I abuse it
[16:12:54] <ssi> it's my most disposable tap because I have so many of them, and I use 10-32 for most bolts when I can
[16:13:01] <ssi> but I just can't seem to wear one out
[16:13:02] <MattyMatt> 10-32 is pretty fine teeth tho. I guess they are naturally resilient
[16:13:57] <MattyMatt> oh hang on, what is #10 in mm? :)
[16:14:41] <ssi> it's .190"
[16:14:46] <ssi> so what, about 5mm
[16:14:52] <atom1> 4.9xx mm
[16:15:12] <atom1> .1935"
[16:16:14] <MattyMatt> yep just looked that up, so yeah it's v close to m5 with 0.8mm pitch
[16:17:44] <MattyMatt> close enough to m5 to jam the wrong nut on even >:)
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[16:26:15] <JT-Shop> I use OSG with Electrolube coating it is a gray coating and slick, might be the same as the sorensen
[16:26:40] <JT-Shop> spiral point for through holes and spiral flute for blind holes
[16:30:40] <ssi> yea I think it mightbe
[16:31:37] <JT-Shop> I had some machines to make with lots of covers and drilled and tapped a bazillion 1/4-20 holes in them with a hand drill... I would still be doing it by hand
[16:33:16] <JT-Shop> Yippie! last thing to wire up/run conduit is the garage door sensor and push button wires
[16:38:20] <ssi> I got my home switches added to my lathe
[16:38:31] <ssi> I just have to add the tabs that'll trip 'em
[16:38:33] <ssi> they're slot optos
[16:39:12] <JT-Shop> cool, you will like having home switches
[16:41:21] <jdhNC> is there in inexpensive place for servos/encoders/drives, or do you just have to wait for surplus ones to show up?
[16:41:40] <jdhNC> (for a medium chinese mill)
[16:42:19] <JT-Shop> inexpensive and servos/encoders/drives never seem to be on the same line :)
[16:42:32] <JT-Shop> do you have ball screws?
[16:42:39] <jdhNC> not yet
[16:42:40] <atom1> http://www.kelinginc.net/ServoMotors.html
[16:42:48] <atom1> i've had good luck with him
[16:42:54] <atom1> never ordered servos though
[16:43:13] <jdhNC> probably stick with the screws it comes with for the first round
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[16:43:45] <JT-Shop> hmm antique DC servos
[16:44:26] <JT-Shop> http://www.kelinginc.net/ACServoMotor.html
[16:44:35] <JT-Shop> but he does have an AC servo
[16:44:48] <jdhNC> yep
[16:44:55] <atom1> ac is better?
[16:44:57] <jdhNC> and one with driver is only a little less than the cost of the mill :)
[16:45:04] <atom1> shows what i know about servos
[16:45:10] <JT-Shop> crap here comes another round of thunderstorms
[16:45:36] <atom1> servo speed costs
[16:45:42] <atom1> well, speed costs :D
[16:45:51] <JT-Shop> with acme screws get the cheapest thing you can find so you won't be out much money to find out the value of ball screws
[16:46:32] <jdhNC> I can put some crappy steppers on my router and my mediocore router steppers on the XY of the mill
[16:46:34] <atom1> i'd like to find a cheap ball screw for my sherline z
[16:49:35] <JT-Shop> robh__: got some AC servos and drives from China... I think on flea bay
[16:50:38] <JT-Shop> atom1: http://www.mcmaster.com/#ball-screws/=c0mdmg
[16:51:41] <atom1> i've been looking at them a bit
[16:52:04] <JT-Shop> Accuracy for travel distance per turn is ±0.004" per foot.
[16:52:38] <JT-Shop> not real tight on the tolerance but not bad for hobby use
[16:54:01] <JT-Shop> http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=3812&PMITEM=36695336&PMCTLG=00
[16:54:26] <JT-Shop> same tolerance as McMaster
[16:54:27] <ssi> the roton screws are a pretty good value
[16:54:29] <atom1> we used to have MSC here, i'm not sure they're still in town
[16:56:09] <atom1> doesn't look like it
[17:00:05] <atom1> i might need a bigger stepper with those since i'd be going from a 20tpi to 8tpi
[17:05:30] <JT-Shop> the friction will be much less and you can always gear the stepper down
[17:05:37] <ssi> yea you shouldn't have an issue
[17:05:42] <ssi> acme screws suck up a lot of torque
[17:05:45] <ssi> ballscrews don't
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[17:06:04] <atom1> well i just upgraded the steppers anyway so it may be ok
[17:06:50] <DaViruz> a ballscrew is like 90% efficient, while a trapezoidal is more like 10-20% efficient
[17:06:55] <atom1> i lived with 135 in-oz for 15yrs and got some 282 in-oz recently
[17:09:39] <atom1> you can't do much with 135in-oz
[17:11:17] <JT-Shop> it's funny how they rate steppers, not by the power the have to move but how hard they stay still
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[17:17:00] <atom1> if i update the stepper drivers and increase the voltage i still want to set the current limit within the stepper spec right?
[17:17:18] <atom1> going to i think 24v to 50v
[17:17:40] <skunkworks> yes
[17:17:42] <atom1> 24-28v, somewhere in ther
[17:17:43] <atom1> e
[17:18:02] <atom1> it just allows higher step rates is my understanding
[17:18:18] <atom1> to a point
[17:18:32] <skunkworks> yes - higher voltage will normally give you higher rpm
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[17:20:44] <JT-Shop> but bigger steppers have lower max RPM than small ones, so upping the voltage will be a boost for acceleration and rpm
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[17:21:09] <JT-Shop> atom1: have you seen the voltage calculators for steppers?
[17:22:07] <atom1> yeah you posted it for me
[17:22:11] <JT-Shop> it's pretty hard to beat the Gecko 203v for a stepper driver and if you kill it Mariss will replace it
[17:22:18] <atom1> i think mine are within the limits
[17:22:23] <atom1> but on the high end
[17:23:33] <atom1> brb
[17:24:23] <atom1> yeah they'd be good on larger steppers too
[17:25:20] <atom1> what about the 201
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[17:43:36] <JT-Shop> looks better than the 203v
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[17:44:50] <JT-Shop> I think the 203v has more protection than the 201 though
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[17:47:24] <JT-Shop> The choice of power supply voltage depends on the high speed performance required of the motor; doubling the voltage doubles the motor’s high speed power. In all cases the power supply voltage should be no less than 4 times or no more than 25 times the motor’s rated voltage. The motor may not run as smoothly as possible if the power supply voltage is less than 4 times the motor’s rated...
[17:47:27] <JT-Shop> ...voltage. A power supply voltage greater than 25 times the motor’s rated voltage will overheat and damage the motor, even if it is not turning. Motor winding inductance should be 500uH or greater, but generally no more than 7mH.
[17:47:37] <JT-Shop> http://www.geckodrive.com/ark-2/support.html?pid=91&id=93
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[17:48:56] <JT-Shop> and the 203v has a slightly higher step frequency
[17:50:05] <JT-Shop> the 201 looks good for the money
[17:50:27] <atom1> worth $40 more?
[17:50:45] <Jymmm> Happy Easter!
[17:50:49] <atom1> i haven't made it to the specs on either one yet. had to run to the quicktrip
[17:50:59] <atom1> what's the steprate on the 201?
[17:51:07] <JT-Shop> only you can answer that... you have to compare the specs and relate that to your machine
[17:51:29] <JT-Shop> it is in the manual
[17:51:35] <atom1> k
[17:51:41] <atom1> i'll check later on
[17:51:49] <atom1> i gotta go make some more pcboards
[17:52:10] <JT-Shop> it's a bit slower than the 203 but if it don't matter to you it's a null point
[17:52:15] <JT-Shop> have fune
[17:52:17] <JT-Shop> fun
[17:52:20] <skunkworks> around here we spell them kwiktrip
[17:52:35] <Jymmm> 7-11
[17:52:40] * JT-Shop wanders inside to take a nap
[17:52:49] <Jymmm> CODE WORD
[17:52:53] <JT-Shop> lol
[17:53:25] <atom1> kroger runs kwiktrip
[17:53:31] <atom1> we have them too
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[18:03:44] <tom3p> how can I use vismach.py without running emc? ( its tedious to run emc, shutt down emc, edit 1 line, repeat )
[18:04:37] <Jymmm> virtual box?
[18:06:21] <tom3p> uh, i just want get it to render, then get back to the text editor, i dont see how a VM will do that
[18:06:31] <tom3p> thx tho
[18:07:50] <Jymmm> you can't edit on the fly then hit some refresh button to re-render?
[18:09:21] <tom3p> not that i know of, that'd be sweet
[18:09:24] <Jymmm> or save as sequencial number, then load that?
[18:09:39] <Jymmm> editing in between
[18:09:58] <tom3p> it gets loaded from a hal file which gets loaded from the ini file which is loaded when emc runs
[18:10:09] <tom3p> (hambone hambone)
[18:10:43] <Jymmm> I thought there was a way to have emc reread it's config.
[18:10:50] <Jymmm> without shutting down
[18:11:16] <tom3p> that sounds cool ( googlin')
[18:19:33] <tom3p> there seems to be some feature in pcnconfig for reloading a config that is being worked on
[18:20:36] <tom3p> stumbled on this Lithuanian EMC cnc kit in the meantime http://lab.fs.uni-lj.si/lakos/education/undergraduate/fms_cim_1/Materiali_0910/User%20manual%20-%20LAKOS%20150%20v11.pdf
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[18:23:32] <tom3p> cool, they laser scan this girls face and scale-engrave with emc http://lab.fs.uni-lj.si/lakos/
[18:23:56] <tom3p> click on 'LASMIL'
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[18:37:28] <tom3p> it looks like i could make a dummy cfg in pncconf, but i cant get at the bottom of the dialogs at 1280x800, so cant navigate
[18:38:09] <tom3p> thats the highest vert rez allowed on this laptop
[18:43:21] <ds3> eh? no LASMIL link
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[18:54:07] <tom3p> ds3 try http://www.lakos.fs.uni-lj.si/ and look at set of 3 pix at top right, its the middle one
[18:55:12] <tom3p> re: reloading a config, pncconfig wont do it ( the feature was listed as a design goal , thats all )
[18:55:13] <Jymmm> tom3p: http://www.david-laserscanner.com/
[18:55:19] <ds3> it is hidden in flash :(
[18:55:38] <tom3p> yeah been watching that, this is like the new DAVID, you dont have to rotate the subject
[18:55:44] <ds3> http://www.lakos.fs.uni-lj.si/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72%3Alasmil&catid=57%3Areklamne-novice&lang=en
[18:55:55] <ds3> I think that's the actual URL for it after plowing through the flash
[18:56:17] <tom3p> ds3, cool, sorry i didnt dig it out
[18:56:55] <ds3> can't get any further then that...it wants another special plugin
[18:57:16] <ds3> wish I had more time to look at laser scanning :(
[18:57:39] <ds3> got a 2-3 year old project just waiting for time
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[18:59:15] <tom3p> ds3? menubar | products and services | lasmil its a pdf
[19:00:33] <ds3> that puts me into a plugin search
[19:00:43] <ds3> which fails since i am on linux
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[19:02:14] <tom3p> its a brochure in Lithuanian , just 4 pages , a few diagrams
[19:05:33] <tom3p> i dont have perms to post it, afik its annotated DONT
[19:07:19] <tom3p> no, the pdf itself is marked publish ok... coming up
[19:08:20] <ds3> if it is in Lithuanian, it won't do me much good
[19:08:40] <atom1> the pictures are in english
[19:11:26] <tom3p> http://pdfcast.org/pdf/lasmil and you should be able to view with linux/gnome/ evince aka document viewer
[19:13:36] <tom3p> ah it was that david needed a background and i wanted to scan engravings on temple wall, couldnt spin wall, couldnt put something behind wall
[19:14:04] <ds3> wow, thanks.
[19:14:49] <ds3> didn't think that technique can work as well
[19:14:55] <tom3p> this uni does some real edgey stuff in cnc, math and ( for me ) in EDM
[19:15:22] <tom3p> ds3 look at Jymm's suggestion the DAVID system http://www.david-laserscanner.com/
[19:15:33] <ds3> all it needs is some real world dimension to calibrate the triangles
[19:16:06] <ds3> tom3p: I am familiar with that... I did a first rev using a very similar technique except it didn't work as nicely
[19:16:07] <tom3p> thats the background i spoke of in DAVID a checkboard background
[19:16:20] <ds3> let me dig out my 3 year old write up
[19:17:41] <tom3p> dang Its Slovenia ( brain fart )
[19:18:09] <tom3p> i'm jamming the pdf contents into google xl8r now
[19:18:13] <ds3> http://www.hy-research.com/blog/LightWorks.html
[19:18:24] <ds3> that's how far I got before I ran out of time to spend on it
[19:18:48] <ds3> that math just requires some way of giving it a scaling factor for the trig
[19:19:00] <ds3> but getting it tuned right is tricky
[19:19:30] <ds3> the lasmil resolution is amazing
[19:19:55] <tom3p> very cool
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[19:20:24] <ds3> would it by chance specify how many pixels is the camera?
[19:21:43] <KimK> This is a little off-topic, but as long as you guys are talking about viewing pdfs with evince, is there a way to set preferences on evince so it comes up in "best fit" (full page) mode, rather than "fit page width" (full width) mode?
[19:22:08] <KimK> Google has not been very helpful so far, still looking
[19:23:20] <ds3> I prefer xpdf
[19:24:38] <tom3p> Size range is approximately 300 × 300 × 300 mm (h w d), the accuracy is ± 0.3 mm, velocity measurements, 80 profiles / s. In the event that the chosen distance between the two profiles 0.5mm and a length of 300 mm, total measurement time is 7.5 seconds.
[19:24:52] <tom3p> woof! 7.5 secs
[19:25:36] <tom3p> i'm gonna build one and join the circus, see me in the 'mini-me-cnc-head-bust tent'
[19:27:29] <tom3p> back to work! damn interweb
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[19:36:13] <Connor> Harborfreight, 25% off discount coupon!
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[19:43:42] <mrsunshine> hmm, what is the diff on M2AL and AL cutters?
[19:47:50] <JT-Shop> link?
[19:49:35] <mrsunshine> http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-Cutting-Tools-cln-HSS-Endmills-cln-4-Flute-Square-Endmills/Categories there is both AL and M2AL cutters, i guess its the material in the cutters but what diff does it make :/
[19:49:40] <mrsunshine> says M2AL is for alloy steel etc
[19:50:03] <JT-Shop> M2 is a type of steel for sure
[19:50:52] <JT-Shop> they all say HSS
[19:51:14] <JT-Shop> so the other must be just a name
[19:51:32] <mrsunshine> yeah, but from another page i got that M2AL is a specialy formulated hss steel with aluminium in for better heat transfer ...
[19:51:45] <mrsunshine> Multiple flute. Specially formulated M-2 High Speed Steel with aluminum alloy evenly dissipates heat and reduces friction. They often outperform cobalt roughers, at a lower price!
[19:52:14] <JT-Shop> see that now
[19:54:57] <mrsunshine> 46 euro in shipping, ouch =)
[19:58:37] <toastydeath> unless you're running a large milling machine you won't notice the difference
[19:59:03] <toastydeath> and even in large milling machines you won't notice the difference unless you've got the machine dialed up
[20:01:02] <mrsunshine> ahh ok was just thinking of how they hold up, if they both will cut aluminium fine etc =)
[20:01:21] <toastydeath> a dull squirrel will cut aluminum fine
[20:02:06] <toastydeath> anything you can reasonably manage to strap into a milling chuck will cut aluminum, don't worry about cutter performance
[20:02:16] <mrsunshine> heh =)
[20:02:53] <toastydeath> the only cutter i can think of where you'd have trouble with Al is one of those 70-flue titanium finishers
[20:03:20] <toastydeath> *flute
[20:04:37] <toastydeath> if your primary goal is aluminum, get a high helix three flute endmill in any kind of HSS you care to choose
[20:05:30] <toastydeath> if you care about measuring the diameter of that endmill and plan to send it out for resharpening, get a two flute instead so you don't have to buy equipment to measure the flute diameter
[20:07:01] <JT-Shop> I find the 2 flute high helix better with my 6k spindle
[20:07:36] <mrsunshine> where the heck do you get high helix cutters that is 2 flute?
[20:07:47] <JT-Shop> lakeshore carbide
[20:08:02] <JT-Shop> http://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/
[20:08:44] <toastydeath> better in terms of chatter?
[20:08:53] <JT-Shop> http://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/2flute.aspx
[20:09:22] <JT-Shop> better chip ejection in crappy material
[20:09:30] <toastydeath> nice
[20:09:33] <mrsunshine> JT-Shop, and that supid imperial ...
[20:09:45] <mrsunshine> they have like 20 metric sizes and a billion imperial sizes
[20:09:47] <JT-Shop> that's all I use
[20:10:16] <mrsunshine> i dont, as i find it stupid and im not from america or england .. that seem to be the only countries still hogging those units :P
[20:11:08] <toastydeath> hey man, it's your choice to limit your tool selection, more power to you
[20:11:16] <mrsunshine> :P
[20:11:39] <toastydeath> I have this thing called a micrometer, it allows me to measure what I've got and put that number into the machine agnostic of what the label says on the cutter
[20:12:19] <mrsunshine> yeah that is true but metric to imperial often ends up with alot of stupid decimals etc =)
[20:12:22] <toastydeath> with milling cutters on CNC especially there's no real reason to care what size your cutter is
[20:12:34] <toastydeath> especially after one resharp.
[20:12:41] <toastydeath> or hell, even after ten minutes of cutting.
[20:12:53] <mrsunshine> hehe :P
[20:12:57] <JT-Shop> the other advantage is I don't have to try and feed as fast to get the same FPT with 2 flute
[20:14:09] <mrsunshine> so two flute is to recomend for milling alu then ? :)
[20:14:12] <toastydeath> that is definately an advantage for slower feed
[20:14:14] <JT-Shop> I can't even think of getting the recommended SFM for those cutters of 1600-2000... that's 25k - 30k
[20:14:26] <toastydeath> ?
[20:14:30] <JT-Shop> mrsunshine: they work for me better
[20:14:31] <toastydeath> turn the cutter slower
[20:14:51] <toastydeath> but yeah, given those reasons i'd agree with your new recommendation
[20:14:57] <JT-Shop> 25k-30k RPM
[20:14:59] <toastydeath> i'm just used to cutting alu in 3 flute
[20:15:28] <JT-Shop> me too
[20:16:20] <JT-Shop> another thing my coolant pump is whimpy and I can't blast the chips out when doing pockets
[20:16:27] <atom1> JT-Shop, what chipload do you use on 2flute in alum?
[20:16:35] <toastydeath> that is a pain in the ass for any machine
[20:16:38] <atom1> .004?
[20:16:40] <atom1> or more
[20:16:46] <toastydeath> how rigid is your machine, atom
[20:16:49] <toastydeath> what are you using
[20:16:54] <atom1> i'm asking him
[20:16:57] <JT-Shop> what diameter?
[20:17:05] <atom1> surface speed
[20:17:18] <JT-Shop> what diameter cutter?
[20:17:36] <atom1> well, in per rev.. say 3/4"
[20:17:53] <atom1> or 1/2 may be more common
[20:17:55] <JT-Shop> 1/4" 0.003 FPT 3/4" 0.008 FPT
[20:18:06] <JT-Shop> 1/2 0.006
[20:18:09] <atom1> that sounds about right
[20:18:19] <atom1> just curious if you got more out of those cutters
[20:18:44] <toastydeath> that isn't a lot of feed for that diameter cutter
[20:18:48] <atom1> do you use roughing endmills too?
[20:19:07] <atom1> it zips right along at 10k rpm though
[20:19:20] <JT-Shop> my VMC is a bit on the older side (386 based) so I don't care about top performance
[20:19:57] <atom1> we tried to balance tool life with production
[20:20:10] <JT-Shop> 6k spindle 400 IPM XY and 200 Z
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[20:20:21] <JT-Shop> so pretty slow
[20:20:28] * mrsunshine got his VFD connected today =)
[20:20:34] <mrsunshine> no more three phase to the hobby room =)
[20:20:46] <atom1> the fadal he had was 200 rapid :D
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[20:23:03] <toastydeath> JT-Shop, i usually pick a feed and then adjust spindle speed to suit the machine's abilities
[20:24:00] <JT-Shop> on mine I can only adjust the feed override but almost never have to do so once I got used to the machine and tooling
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[20:35:43] <skunkworks> our conversion of the k&t - we went with the original speed. 200ipm
[20:36:05] <skunkworks> we know it was designed for that and it isn't like we can get replacement parts ;)
[20:36:44] <skunkworks> but now we can do contouring at those speeds also - iirc - the old machine could only do contouring up to 10ipm or something like that ;)
[20:37:35] <toastydeath> but isn't that machine a HMC pallet shuffler
[20:37:49] <toastydeath> or was that somebody else
[20:37:51] <skunkworks> yes
[20:37:55] <skunkworks> but from the 60's
[20:38:37] <toastydeath> yeah, i thought your videos were awesome
[20:38:42] <skunkworks> thanks
[20:39:04] <toastydeath> old job had a similar OKK hmc, my favorite type of machine
[20:39:09] <skunkworks> I have been doing a bunch of r&d stuff on it - on or two offs and it has been working great.
[20:39:13] <skunkworks> one
[20:39:35] <skunkworks> emc2 really makes it easy to use
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[21:20:31] <Fozzeybeare> anybody out there?
[21:21:50] <micges> if you have question just ask
[21:22:48] <Fozzeybeare> no question. Just extremely satisfied with EMC2. Just made my first run on a DIY CNC
[21:23:10] <Jymmm> No pics == never happened =)
[21:23:39] <Fozzeybeare> my son took some shots. he's out riding his tractor
[21:23:48] <Fozzeybeare> no pics right now
[21:24:45] <atom1> tough croud
[21:24:59] <Fozzeybeare> hardened
[21:26:27] <Jymmm> more like hard boiled and dyed
[21:27:32] * Jymmm is as artistic as a rock this week *sigh*
[21:29:09] <Jymmm> The best I can do is create an old rotary phone dialer
[21:30:04] <Fozzeybeare> is there a simpler text engraving package for use with EMC2. I used the one from the wiki an it's not very friendly
[21:30:39] <Jymmm> the wiki is vast, which one did you use specifically?
[21:31:07] <Fozzeybeare> only found one: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators#Text_Engraving_Software
[21:32:10] <Fozzeybeare> very limited in number of fonts
[21:32:43] <Jymmm> Fozzeybeare: http://timeguy.com/cradek/01276453959
[21:33:41] <Fozzeybeare> sweet, i'll give it a try.
[21:34:27] <JT-Shop> Fozzeybeare: both will use any font installed on your computer
[21:35:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: the one lawrence made says qcad fonts, nothing about ttf
[21:35:17] <JT-Shop> oh, must have napped since then
[21:35:20] <Fozzeybeare> right, thats what I read also
[21:35:24] <Jymmm> CODE WORD
[21:35:46] <Fozzeybeare> I didn't try anything else
[21:36:23] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you have any operational cnc machinery yet?
[21:36:31] <Jymmm> other than lathe
[21:36:38] <JT-Shop> all of them are operational
[21:36:51] <JT-Shop> lathe, 2 mills, plasma
[21:37:00] <JT-Shop> VMC
[21:37:15] <JT-Shop> there must be more somewhere but I can't find them
[21:37:34] <JT-Shop> Fozzeybeare: you can rotate with G10 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G10:-Set-Coordinate
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[21:39:16] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ok, I have some expanded aluminum honeycomb 1/2' thick, and apx 13"x25". I need a frame for it so use as 1) a guide edge, 2) raise it off the table surface by 1-2", 3) align with the existing ruler edges (12x24), any thoughts/ideas?
[21:39:17] <JT-Shop> Chris's TTT is on the simple g code page too http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators#Other_G_Code_Generators
[21:39:27] <Fozzeybeare> I'll eventually get to all the fancy stuff. just finished the machine
[21:39:31] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: the honeycomb needs to be replaced every so often
[21:39:57] <Jymmm> 0.5" thick
[21:40:23] <JT-Shop> frame like angle material or channel material
[21:40:42] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Doesn't matter
[21:41:14] <atom1> mill a pocket in a 1" plate for it
[21:41:37] <Jymmm> atom1: If I had a mill that is
[21:42:01] <atom1> hell as lively as you are in here i figured you did
[21:42:05] <JT-Shop> get some aluminum angle from the hardware store and make it
[21:42:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: can't find any extrusion that will fit the profile
[21:43:06] <Jymmm> the inside if the frame has to match the XY 0,0
[21:43:10] <Jymmm> s/if/of/
[21:46:31] <atom1> what's the honeycomb for?
[21:46:37] <atom1> laser bed?
[21:46:42] <Jymmm> yep
[21:47:01] <atom1> come by the local scrap place, they have honeycomb and alum extrusion
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[21:47:20] <Jymmm> I have the honeycomb already, just need a frame
[21:47:28] <atom1> the honeycomb probably would have a skin on it though
[21:47:32] <JT-Shop> I don't understand what you mean by "can't find any extrusion that will fit the profile"
[21:47:55] <atom1> it's a 13 x 25 rectangle
[21:48:58] <atom1> sitting on a 12 x 24 base?
[21:49:40] <Jymmm> I don't need JUST a picture frame (if you will), But it has to raise the honeycomb off the table by 2", and has to allow the inside of the frame to align the top left corner to XY 0,0, AND align to the exisiting rulers
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[21:50:47] <Jymmm> the 13x25 is to allow 0.5" overlap for a channel to fit on to the honeycomb itself
[21:51:00] <Jymmm> the picture frame so to speak.
[21:51:01] <MOGLI> can anyone guide me about plasma source?? Thermal Dynamics vs Hypertherm??
[21:51:26] <MOGLI> i need to cut 19mm to 25mm Mild Steel and stainless steel
[21:51:47] <atom1> Jymmm
[21:51:49] <atom1> |
[21:51:49] <atom1> ---
[21:51:49] <atom1> |
[21:51:49] <atom1> ___|___
[21:52:10] <atom1> rivet some angle to a T extrusion
[21:52:35] <atom1> then if you need, set a sheet under the honeycomb
[21:52:54] <Jymmm> atom1: I need to expoxy the honeycomb to the frame
[21:53:09] <Jymmm> or it'll droop in the middle
[21:53:22] <atom1> that's why i said set a sheet under it
[21:53:26] <atom1> of alum etc
[21:53:35] <JT-Shop> MOGLI: I prefer my Hypertherm, but it is the only one I've owned...
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[21:53:35] <Jymmm> defeats teh purpose of the honeycomb
[21:53:55] <atom1> anything under it is gonna get burnt though right?
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[21:54:19] <Jymmm> say that again?
[21:54:29] <atom1> anything under it is gonna get burnt though right?
[21:54:38] <atom1> anything under the honeycomb is gonna get burnt though right?
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[21:54:48] <Jymmm> rephrase the question please
[21:54:56] <atom1> use thicker honeycomb and set it on the base
[21:55:03] <atom1> i don't get the whole picture i guess
[21:55:10] <JT-Shop> so you can't find 2" alum angle anywhere and make it
[21:55:26] <JT-Shop> nor do I
[21:55:30] <Jymmm> I need the HC raised 2" above the table surface to use as a vacuum holddown
[21:55:44] <MOGLI> JT-Shop: Hypertherm support CNC interface like Thermal Dynamics?? i am not able to fine it on their website
[21:56:19] <MOGLI> or is there any way to make it?? i mean Cut Ready Signal , on off etc..
[21:56:23] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It's not JUST a frame that I need is the issue.
[21:56:30] <JT-Shop> yes, you have to read the manuals to see... mine is a 1250 and has arc ok contacts and remote torch on
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[21:56:32] <atom1> get thicker honeycomb
[21:56:41] <Jymmm> atom1: That won't help
[21:56:44] <atom1> i see you need it porus
[21:56:48] <JT-Shop> but you need to use the machine torch not the hand tourch
[21:56:49] <atom1> for the vacuum
[21:57:00] <atom1> and you need it flat for a work surface
[21:57:14] <MOGLI> ok JT-Shop let me check 1250?? btw which price you get it ? and Torch Part Number??
[21:57:19] <Jymmm> atom1: the middle of the HC can't touch anyhting
[21:57:23] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I'm sure I have no idea what your saying
[21:57:28] <atom1> so you plan to epoxy the hc to the frame and stretch it tight
[21:57:29] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ok
[21:57:37] <Jymmm> atom1: correct
[21:57:44] <JT-Shop> MOGLI: the part numbers are in the pdf manual
[21:58:07] <atom1> epoxy 2 sides and put allthread thru the frame to expand it tight
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[21:58:32] <MOGLI> ok i will check can you tell me the price you got.. coz i found it varies from web to web
[21:58:50] <JT-Shop> I don't remember I've had it for years!
[21:59:00] <Jymmm> atom1: I dont need to place it under tension
[21:59:07] <JT-Shop> once I take a nap the harddrive erases
[21:59:16] <Jymmm> CODEWORD
[21:59:16] <atom1> hc is pretty flimsy if it's not backed
[21:59:28] <Jymmm> atom1: not this stuff =)
[21:59:33] <atom1> oh
[21:59:46] <atom1> the stuff around here is pretty thin
[21:59:51] <Jymmm> I can almost stand on it and not deform it
[22:00:10] <Jymmm> 1/4" holes
[22:00:17] <atom1> the webbing is thin that is
[22:00:21] * JT-Shop wanders in to get a glass of red while Jymmm takes a picture of the place in question
[22:00:37] <atom1> no pic, didn't happen
[22:00:39] <atom1> :D
[22:02:51] <Jymmm> http://www.signwarehouse.com/shop/graphics/00000001/M_LRGVEC_Table.jpg
[22:02:59] <Jymmm> Ok, take that as an example...
[22:03:09] <atom1> i get the basic idea
[22:03:20] <atom1> it's the specifics that hamper design
[22:03:41] <Jymmm> If you just frame the HC, the inside is the 12x24, But not I have to align that frame with the rules in the laser
[22:04:03] <Jymmm> AND raise it up 2"
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[22:04:34] <atom1> what's the table made of?
[22:04:44] <Jymmm> 1/2" plate aluminum
[22:04:53] <atom1> with a rule down each side
[22:05:07] <atom1> so you could thread a plate to the side of the table
[22:05:20] <Jymmm> I'm not fucking with the table, period.
[22:05:32] <atom1> how do you plan to attach it?
[22:05:45] <Jymmm> It just has to sit againest the existing rulers
[22:05:51] <Jymmm> flush
[22:05:55] * JT-Shop smacks Jymmm with a mackerel
[22:06:12] <atom1> but you indicated you wanted the frame larger than the table
[22:06:22] <JT-Shop> so the HC frame is 12 x 24 but the laser table is bigger?
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[22:06:32] <atom1> that's not what i got
[22:06:40] <Jymmm> IatIt has to to accomidate a 12x24 cutting area
[22:07:05] <Jymmm> the frame ID is 12x24
[22:07:12] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: do you have a photo of the actual machine?
[22:07:34] <JT-Shop> showing the area in question...
[22:07:49] <atom1> expanded aluminum honeycomb 1/2' thick, and apx 13"x25"
[22:07:52] <atom1> align with the existing ruler edges (12x24)
[22:08:19] <atom1> that tells me it's gonna overlap 1/2" all the way around
[22:08:27] <Jymmm> correct
[22:08:43] <JT-Shop> so cut the HC to the correct size is not an option?
[22:08:46] <atom1> if so, it will hide the rule
[22:08:58] <Jymmm> atom1: correct
[22:09:06] <atom1> and you want the rule visible
[22:09:37] <Jymmm> The HC frame ID is 12x24, the OD is apx 13x25, but the frame ID has to align the rulers
[22:10:01] <Jymmm> it will overlap them, but doesn't have to be visible.
[22:10:17] <atom1> angle alum
[22:10:19] <atom1> --
[22:10:21] <atom1> |
[22:10:25] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'll need to take some pics
[22:10:34] <JT-Shop> yes you do
[22:10:34] <atom1> sit the hc on top of it
[22:10:37] <Jymmm> atom1: AND be off the table by 2"
[22:10:47] <atom1> so use 2" angle
[22:11:03] <atom1> or 2 x 1 etc
[22:11:15] <Jymmm> you mean C channel
[22:11:24] <atom1> if you prefer
[22:11:32] <Jymmm> aligned to what?
[22:11:54] <atom1> if you use the angle it could sit inside the rule
[22:12:01] <Jymmm> No, it can't
[22:12:04] <atom1> and overlap the table on the top side
[22:12:10] <Jymmm> the reduces the cutting area
[22:12:15] <Jymmm> s/the/that/
[22:12:21] <atom1> no i don't think it would
[22:12:32] <atom1> if you sit the hc on top of:
[22:12:34] <atom1> --
[22:12:37] <atom1> |
[22:12:46] <Jymmm> on top of what, the rulers?
[22:12:56] <atom1> dinner then i'll draw something
[22:12:58] <atom1> maybe
[22:13:09] <atom1> jt will fix it by then
[22:13:15] <Jymmm> k
[22:13:39] <atom1> git yer damn camera out in the mean time
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[22:26:28] <MOGLI> i have one silly question... I am new to plasma Do i need Oxygen cylinder or Simple Air Compressor??
[22:27:24] <MOGLI> JT-Shop?????
[22:28:24] <andypugh> Compressor.
[22:30:41] <andypugh> Does anyone have a Mesa PCI card installed and time to kill?
[22:33:17] <MOGLI> i have but at workshop.. :( 5I20...
[22:33:44] <MOGLI> tell me i will try tomorrow.. coz its 4 am here...
[22:34:31] <MOGLI> hey guys please check this and give your suggestion.. http://imagebin.org/149962
[22:34:42] <andypugh> OK, I just want to know what the servo-thread execution time is with the SV12.BIT firmware and 8 encoder and 8 pwmgens.
[22:35:42] <MOGLI> its not fullly developed controller.. initially i planned to use MOCCA with this.. but i think gtom team stopped working and i am new to pascal...
[22:35:47] <andypugh> It looks like a CNC controller...
[22:36:21] <MOGLI> siemens 828d clone ;)
[22:37:15] <MOGLI> sinumerik 828d.. even i willl put functionality like wireless Modem Interfacing.. siemens provides it in its controller
[22:37:51] <JT-Shop> andypugh: yes
[22:37:58] <andypugh> What e;ements of Mocca were useful in this case?
[22:38:09] <MOGLI> its a cnc like interface...
[22:38:15] <MOGLI> i cant use AXIS with this...
[22:38:24] <MOGLI> i m using this motherboard http://www.technexion.com/index.php/embedded-mainboards/tim-5510
[22:38:35] <andypugh> There is tkemc?
[22:39:05] <andypugh> JT, can I send you a test file?
[22:39:14] <JT-Shop> MOGLI: high dev uses oxygen normal use air
[22:39:33] <MOGLI> thanks JT-Shop..
[22:39:34] <JT-Shop> andypugh: yes, do you have my address
[22:40:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: "high dev"???
[22:40:07] <MOGLI> andypug: tkemc is not as goodlooking as mocca...
[22:40:12] <JT-Shop> high definition plasma
[22:40:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: gotcha
[22:40:24] <Jymmm> HD Plasma
[22:40:34] <MOGLI> one more thing is i prefer Pascal than TCL..pascal is Basic like language...
[22:40:38] <Jymmm> you makin TV's over there now?
[22:41:12] <MOGLI> my favourite is C++ and C..
[22:41:12] <andypugh> JT, just halrun then source test.hal
[22:41:26] <MOGLI> not compressor will be fine.. i dont need HD plasma i think
[22:41:32] <JT-Shop> andypugh: did you mean to send the same file twice?
[22:41:47] <andypugh> (Oh, and then can you run it again with num_encoders=8 and pwmgens=8 too)
[22:41:59] <andypugh> I only see one copy here?
[22:42:26] <JT-Shop> you must have the shakes then
[22:42:35] <Jymmm> DT's
[22:43:41] <JT-Shop> hmmm, blank file
[22:43:43] <MOGLI> hey andypugh can you guide me to select Language and toolkit if (am not sure) i need to write make GUI for this controller??
[22:44:16] <MOGLI> mocca was really nice project...
[22:44:19] <JT-Shop> andypugh: send it again the file was empty
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[22:48:18] <JT-Shop> andypugh: did you mean a 5i20?
[22:49:37] <jt-plasma> Parameters:
[22:49:38] <jt-plasma> Owner Type Dir Value Name
[22:49:40] <jt-plasma> 3 s32 RO 0 hm2_5i20.0.pet_watchdog.time
[22:49:41] <jt-plasma> 3 s32 RO 0 hm2_5i20.0.read.time
[22:49:43] <jt-plasma> 3 s32 RO 0 hm2_5i20.0.read_gpio.time
[22:49:44] <jt-plasma> 3 s32 RO 0 hm2_5i20.0.write.time
[22:49:46] <jt-plasma> 3 s32 RO 0 hm2_5i20.0.write_gpio.time
[22:49:47] <jt-plasma> Realtime Threads:
[22:49:49] <jt-plasma> Period FP Name ( Time, Max-Time )
[22:49:50] <jt-plasma> 999849 YES thread1 ( 0, 0 )
[22:49:52] <jt-plasma> 1 hm2_5i20.0.read
[22:49:53] <jt-plasma> 2 hm2_5i20.0.pet_watchdog
[22:49:55] <jt-plasma> 3 hm2_5i20.0.write
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[22:53:59] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Curious.
[22:54:26] <andypugh> Something hasn't worked there.
[22:54:26] <JT-Shop> it already had 8 and 8
[22:54:38] <andypugh> Yeah, I changed it when I re-sent
[22:54:49] <JT-Shop> might I not have the the bit file?
[22:55:06] <andypugh> Ah. Did you also change the path of the firmware to be hm2/5i20 ?
[22:55:42] <jt-plasma> loadrt hm2_pci config="firmware=hm2/5i20/SV12.BIT num_encoders=8 num_pwmgens=8"
[22:55:42] <andypugh> I think that dmesg might say "Don't be silly" (or words to that effect)
[22:56:49] <andypugh> Well, the firmware should exist
[22:58:03] <jt-plasma> I don't see any clues in dmesg
[22:58:14] <jt-plasma> and this is an 8.04 computer
[22:58:27] <jt-plasma> should I try it on the 10.04 machine?
[22:58:41] <andypugh> No, the 8.04 is possibly more interesting.
[22:59:10] <jt-plasma> no clues in dmesg
[23:00:16] <andypugh> Perhaps try typing the last 3 commands in the file by hand and see if that wakes things up.
[23:02:49] <jt-plasma> Owner Type Dir Value Name
[23:02:51] <jt-plasma> 3 s32 RO 2180 hm2_5i20.0.pet_watchdog.time
[23:02:52] <jt-plasma> 3 s32 RO 2636 hm2_5i20.0.read.time
[23:02:55] <jt-plasma> 3 s32 RO 0 hm2_5i20.0.read_gpio.time
[23:02:56] <jt-plasma> 3 s32 RO 616 hm2_5i20.0.write.time
[23:02:58] <jt-plasma> 3 s32 RO 0 hm2_5i20.0.write_gpio.time
[23:03:17] <jt-plasma> Realtime Threads:
[23:03:19] <jt-plasma> Period FP Name ( Time, Max-Time )
[23:03:20] <jt-plasma> 999849 YES thread1 ( 5524, 84952 )
[23:03:22] <jt-plasma> 1 hm2_5i20.0.read
[23:03:23] <jt-plasma> 2 hm2_5i20.0.pet_watchdog
[23:03:25] <jt-plasma> 3 hm2_5i20.0.write
[23:04:11] <andypugh> That's with 8 encoders and 8 pwms?
[23:04:25] <andypugh> (show pin will make that clear)
[23:05:38] <andypugh> For comparison:
[23:05:41] <andypugh> 00005 fb8adddd eee21000 NO 1 hm2_5i23.0.pet_watchdog
[23:05:41] <andypugh> 00005 fb8a398d eee21000 YES 1 hm2_5i23.0.read
[23:05:41] <andypugh> 00005 fb8a38c2 eee21000 YES 0 hm2_5i23.0.read_gpio
[23:05:42] <andypugh> 00005 fb8a38f3 eee21000 YES 1 hm2_5i23.0.write
[23:05:42] <andypugh> 00005 fb8a3891 eee21000 YES 0 hm2_5i23.0.write_gpio
[23:05:42] <andypugh> halcmd: show thread
[23:05:43] <andypugh> Realtime Threads:
[23:05:43] <andypugh> Period FP Name ( Time, Max-Time )
[23:05:43] <andypugh> 999931 YES thread1 ( 53490, 94790 )
[23:05:43] <andypugh> 1 hm2_5i23.0.read
[23:05:44] <andypugh> 2 hm2_5i23.0.pet_watchdog
[23:05:44] <andypugh> 3 hm2_5i23.0.write
[23:06:17] <andypugh> Your computer seems 10x faster than mine.
[23:06:45] <atom1> hrm. jt has clones
[23:07:10] <andypugh> JT-Shop: If that is the D510 then I am even more puzzled.
[23:07:45] <jt-plasma> andypugh: no, I'm not sure what this one is
[23:08:01] <andypugh> Hmm, sorry to ask this, but is it possible to do the same with the D510?
[23:08:23] <jt-plasma> this one is pentium 4 2.4GHz
[23:08:56] <jt-plasma> I don't have a 5i20 in the D510...
[23:09:12] <andypugh> I have a problem where my hm2 runtime is more than 100uS. That is a real problem with a 100uS base thread,
[23:09:51] <andypugh> I am trying to figure out if it is just me, or something has changed.
[23:10:03] <andypugh> I guess I could try fiddling with BIOS settings.
[23:10:34] <jt-plasma> I need to get a spare 5i20...
[23:12:20] <andypugh> I am just going to try it with my 7i43 (that at least has an excuse to be slow)
[23:12:30] <atom1> are those ok for steppers too?
[23:12:54] <JT-Shop> 5i20?
[23:13:05] <atom1> yes
[23:13:07] <atom1> i'm debating between buss or parport
[23:13:33] <JT-Shop> that is the card that runs my plasma and it is all stepper
[23:13:36] <andypugh> The 7i43 makes for easy wiring.
[23:13:59] <atom1> well the 7i43 is the first choice right now
[23:13:59] <JT-Shop> doesn't the 7i43 limit the speed?
[23:14:22] <andypugh> And it has perfectly acceptable performance for a CNC machine. (and if 48 IO is enough, and I can't imagine it not being, in general)
[23:14:40] <atom1> should be plenty of io
[23:14:57] <andypugh> I am just about to compare the 7i43 speed. Bear with me.
[23:15:04] <atom1> good
[23:17:37] <JT-Shop> and you have to have EPP for the 7i43, is that an issue for some computers?
[23:19:48] <JT-Shop> the 7i43-H sure is a nice price at $79
[23:20:04] <JT-Shop> P not H
[23:20:17] <atom1> not that i know of. most should support it now
[23:20:28] <atom1> if they have a parport
[23:21:32] <JT-Shop> I found a parallel port cable and adapter in my junk to fit the D510MO
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[23:22:01] <atom1> i've got a bunch of em here but they have a small connector on the header side
[23:22:24] <atom1> from my pc104 boards
[23:22:32] <JT-Shop> this one had the 26 pin connector with the one blocked so perfect
[23:22:55] <JT-Shop> I connected a C1 breakout board to it today for testing and it works
[23:24:47] <pcw_home> Only problem with EPP is that its somewhat of a crapshoot to find a add-in PCI card that supports it
[23:24:49] <pcw_home> (although Kirk wallace has done some good card testing recently and found some)
[23:24:51] <pcw_home> Motherboard ports almost always work
[23:25:15] <JT-Shop> I knew Peter would set us straight :)
[23:26:10] <JT-Shop> does the D510MO parallel port support EPP?
[23:26:17] <pcw_home> Yes
[23:26:47] <JT-Shop> I think I'll get one for some play testing then
[23:27:15] <andypugh> OK, the 7i43 runs the 8+8 setup in 42uS.
[23:27:25] <andypugh> That's _faster_ than my PCI card.
[23:27:31] <atom1> heh
[23:27:36] <JT-Shop> heh
[23:27:37] <atom1> why i wonder?
[23:27:46] <andypugh> But 10x slower than JTs PCI card
[23:27:55] <andypugh> Wierd, isn't it?
[23:28:03] <atom1> what's the difference in the pci cards?
[23:28:04] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:28:06] <atom1> the mb ?
[23:28:15] <atom1> buss speed?
[23:28:20] <atom1> isn't that set?
[23:28:45] <andypugh> Need more data from another D510 I think
[23:29:15] <JT-Shop> andypugh: do you have a 5i20 in your D510?
[23:29:20] <andypugh> 5i23
[23:30:16] <atom1> JT-Shop, what is yours?
[23:30:26] <JT-Shop> 5i20
[23:30:34] <atom1> and it's 10x faster?
[23:36:49] <pcw_home> Andy: sure you dont have 0 channels set (it dont think 42 usec is even possible with 8 32 bit read/writes)
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[23:39:16] <andypugh> No, there were 8 set
[23:40:17] <andypugh> It is possible that the PWMs were not being written to, I didn't enable them. That would make it 8 encoder reads only
[23:40:35] <andypugh> (JTs 5uS also seems suspicious)
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[23:42:43] <pcw_home> Well I remain a bit skeptical of that time EPP operations usually take about 1-2 usec per byte and the total I/O is nearly 100 EPP transactions
[23:44:07] <pcw_home> If you have a scope you could 'scope the busy line to see and time the burst of EPP transfers
[23:44:55] <andypugh> I am not really too bothered about the EPP speed, really. It is that fact that my 5i23 seems so very slow that is concerning me.
[23:45:18] <andypugh> I might try it without the ribbon riser...
[23:46:42] * JT-Shop wanders inside to veg out
[23:46:48] <JT-Shop> goodnight guys
[23:47:14] <pcw_home> I just wonder if your timing is not accurate (5 Usec is not possible for 8 axis either)
[23:47:16] <pcw_home> 'Nite JT
[23:49:32] <andypugh> It's possible.
[23:49:46] <andypugh> But we rather assume it is accurate in a number of the functions..
[23:51:16] <andypugh> Although that is the time since the last call, not the execution time.
[23:52:14] <pcw_home> I could instrument a 5I23 config to put out a pulse on some I/O pin every access if you want to check I/O timing
[23:52:16] <pcw_home> You could also cross check the timing function by reading a counter (say a stepgen set for 10 MHz) and calculating the delta time
[23:52:27] <andypugh> And even when it claimed to be running a 120us servo time in a 100uS thread the machine was perfectly responsive.
[23:54:03] <andypugh> Actually, I am being a bit daft, as it is a 999uS servo thread. So 100+ uS is fine.
[23:54:36] <andypugh> Maybe I just need to stop worrying about it?
[23:54:59] <atom1> this is on the 5i23?
[23:55:18] <atom1> the parport is bound to be slower
[23:56:07] <andypugh> That's my point, according to my tests my parallel port card is fractionally faster than my PCI card.
[23:56:21] <atom1> something is amiss
[23:56:24] <pcw_home> I would try with a hardware counter to be sure, I dont think the numbers make sense
[23:56:36] <andypugh> ie 42uS for the 7i43 and 53uS for the 5i23.
[23:56:57] <andypugh> pcw_home: I am not sure how to do it with a hardware counter though.
[23:57:19] <pcw_home> But 43 Usec is not even possible for a 7I43 (scope the /busy pin)
[23:57:42] <andypugh> I am not trying to measure thread frequency but the execution time.
[23:58:30] <andypugh> (synch error there, I agree that /busy will work for the 7i43)
[23:58:45] <andypugh> But I am not too worried about the 7i43.
[23:58:49] <pcw_home> Use a step config Set the step rate to 10 MHZ, read the counter before thread invocation and after
[23:59:28] <andypugh> pcw_home: I don't know how to do that.
[23:59:34] <pcw_home> s/counter/stepgen accumulator