#emc | Logs for 2011-04-22

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[00:00:12] <andypugh> I have an internal M20x1 to cut.
[00:00:13] <Paragon39> No just kidding... I am impressed though :-)
[00:01:43] <andypugh> One significant complication is that it matters if you are using a pointed tool you have ground yourself, or an insert with the rounding on it.
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[00:03:46] <Paragon39> Moi needs some more of that beauty sleep, a lot more! Night All...
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[00:04:05] <andypugh> Nice little mill: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150593710159
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[00:23:57] <Gensor> I am looking for a good solution for a transformer power supply 200v 6-10amps. can you point me in a direction?
[00:27:00] <andypugh> What is your local mains voltage?
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[00:28:36] <Gensor> This question is related to a grounds up build, no existing equipment
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[00:29:33] <andypugh> How exactly 200V do you need? What's the application? Is it your money or a cients?
[00:30:27] <Gensor> its mine
[00:31:57] <andypugh> Ok, work bacwards through the questions then...
[00:32:19] <Gensor> the voltage is on the servo, and that is all I have at the moment
[00:32:32] <andypugh> I am curious what others think looking at this picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dreher_an_einer_Drehbank.jpg
[00:32:49] <andypugh> What is your local mains voltage?
[00:33:25] <Gensor> I have several linear bearings and ballscrews and maybe... make a small gantry router/torch/ect
[00:34:05] <andypugh> What is your mains voltage?
[00:34:57] <andypugh> Locally, what is the voltage of the mains supply?
[00:35:20] <Gensor> sorry andy, electronics is my weak area. I would like to run this off of 220 single phase
[00:35:37] <andypugh> Where are you?
[00:35:41] <Gensor> us
[00:35:54] <Gensor> 60hz
[00:36:07] <andypugh> So, you have 110V single phase too?
[00:36:18] <Gensor> oh yes
[00:36:59] <Gensor> 3-4 servos 200v 3amp each
[00:37:14] <andypugh> I think you will find that a rectifier and a nice big 200V (or higher) connected to the 110V supply will be ideal to run your servos.
[00:37:39] <andypugh> I missed out the word "Capacitor" there.
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[00:39:26] <andypugh> Back to that Wiki picture link, Mr Seelski has a lovely big lathe, and no idea how to use it.
[00:41:06] <JT-Shop> he is concentrating very hard with that little stock hanging way out there...
[00:41:49] <andypugh> I am also concerned that the toolpost is halfway out of the compound slide slot.
[00:42:23] <Gensor> http://campbelldesigns.net/files/power-supply-part-1.pdf
[00:42:36] <JT-Shop> heh, I missed that at first glance
[00:43:45] <andypugh> Gensor: I don't think you need a transformer.
[00:43:50] <JT-Shop> hmmm, 7:45 and UPS is still "out for delivery"
[00:44:07] <andypugh> I have had them turn up at 8pm
[00:44:49] <JT-Shop> I'll "leave the light on" for him
[00:45:00] <andypugh> Gensor: Also, the capacitor size for a 200V supply can be a lot smaller than for a 24V supply
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[00:46:26] <andypugh> 80000 * 7 / 200 = 288uF so actually that equation looks about right for you
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[00:49:07] <andypugh> Oops, let me do that again. 80000*10/200 = 4000uF
[00:53:10] <Gensor> bridge rectifier?
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[00:56:49] <andypugh> So, you need a 10A bridge rectifier ($2) , a 10A anti-surge NTC device ($2, optional) and a 250V 4200uF Capacitor with a 10A ripple current ($60). That last part is the expensive bit. Something like http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=3819245 but from a local source (or eBay).
[00:58:16] <andypugh> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6875695
[00:58:18] <Tom_L> funny, that's about what i got for mine
[00:58:31] <Gensor> thanks andy!
[00:58:36] <Tom_L> 2200µF, 12A bridge
[00:58:40] <Tom_L> 2200 x 2
[00:58:56] <Tom_L> consider smaller caps for better ripple
[00:59:01] <Tom_L> and double them
[00:59:06] <Tom_L> cheaper too
[00:59:12] <Tom_L> more than likely
[00:59:35] <Gensor> do you have an reference on the internet for your 80k equation?
[01:00:02] <andypugh> Tom_L: £20 from eBay for all three: https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5595133620730615634
[01:00:21] <andypugh> Gensor: It was in the link _you_ posted.
[01:00:26] <Tom_L> i saw those
[01:00:52] <andypugh> 450V 20A ripple, 3300uF. I am happy,
[01:01:12] <Tom_L> mine's only ~50v
[01:01:32] <Gensor> tom_l caps in parallel?
[01:01:38] <Tom_L> i did
[01:01:39] <Tom_L> yes
[01:01:47] <Tom_L> or will
[01:01:54] <Tom_L> it's sitting in a box right now
[01:02:04] <Tom_L> i did a board layout for the caps and bridge
[01:02:21] <Tom_L> non screw mount
[01:03:19] <Tom_L> the bridge looks the same
[01:03:25] <Tom_L> same form factor anyway
[01:04:12] <andypugh> Gensor: The rectifier has 4 terminals, 2 are AC voltage in, the others are + and - DC out.
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[01:05:17] <JT-Shop> building a power supply?
[01:05:59] <Gensor> yes, andy I think I can run fine with the info you gave. just a little currious about multiple caps vs one
[01:06:23] <andypugh> Getting the + and - wrong when connecting to the capacitors would get expensive, messy, and dangerous very quickly. And a 200V capacitor can kill you. (It can still kill you in a commercial PSU, it isn't the DIY part that is dangerous). Do you have any electronics-savvy friends to oversee and advise?
[01:06:56] <Tom_L> might make a good youtube video though
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[01:07:50] <Tom_L> warning.. don't stick your tongue on a loaded cap. it's not your average 9v battery
[01:08:01] <JT-Shop> LOL
[01:08:08] <Gensor> my bro is an electical engineer, i am mechanical
[01:08:28] <Gensor> I will be fine
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[01:09:01] <Tom_L> these caps have 2 unused lugs
[01:09:51] <Gensor> both of us came from a facility that manufactured circuit boards with automated equipment, and have many friends that supported this equipment. This is also the reason I have so many ballscrews and linear bearings
[01:10:40] <andypugh> In http://campbelldesigns.net/files/power-supply-part-1.pdf I can't help feeling that his power feed wires out of the caps are really rather weedy.
[01:11:05] <jdhNC> you could send me some ball screws
[01:11:12] <Tom_L> me too
[01:11:12] <andypugh> And me!
[01:11:18] <Tom_L> take a number
[01:11:19] <Gensor> hehehehe
[01:12:23] <andypugh> It looks like the ones I just bought are _not_ going to arrive for the 4-day weekend tomorrow, which is a real shame.
[01:13:17] <Gensor> bro gave me the thumbs up. anyway, if the servo is 3amp and the suggested servo amp is 30amp.... what am I missing
[01:13:20] <andypugh> On the plus side that does mean I have the spare time to help a very cute girl I know shop for a Triumph Daytona.
[01:14:05] <Gensor> if that is the case... you need your beauty sleep
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[01:14:30] <Tom_L> http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/coils/
[01:14:38] <Tom_L> in case you feel like winding your own
[01:14:57] <andypugh> Though she typo'd it "Triumph Dayton" which I believe is in Ohio, and rather less exciting.
[01:15:18] <jdhNC> triumph is still around?
[01:15:38] <jdhNC> oh, not cars
[01:15:54] <Tom_L> thank goodness
[01:16:02] <andypugh> Bikes, and more around again. http://www.triumph.co.uk/usa/
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[01:16:15] <Gensor> just make sure she doesnt grab that throttle with her wrist elevated
[01:17:38] <andypugh> She's got an SV650 and has ridden my R1, she'll be fine.
[01:18:41] <Gensor> I bet she has ridden more than that :)
[01:18:48] <andypugh> She's very nearly as fast as me. (and that's pretty fast)
[01:19:24] <Gensor> I have to go.... good luck on your conquest
[01:19:32] <Tom_L> later
[01:20:25] <andypugh> She's a married woman. I have no hope or expectation in that direction.
[01:23:07] <Tom_L> regard to caps. using multiple in parallel lowers the ESR of the system, so it will respond faster to transients.
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[01:23:44] <andypugh> Tom_L: I am thinking of winding my own brushless motor. I reckon the way to do it might be with my CNC mill, with a spool-feed through the quill and a bend hypodermic needle to feed the wire out.
[01:24:12] <andypugh> (I have an A axis to rotate from pole-to-pole.
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[01:28:51] <Tom_L> don't chip the enamel
[01:29:18] <Tom_L> or scratch it on the needle
[01:29:58] <andypugh> Any ideas where to get core laminations made?
[01:30:40] <Tom_L> not small quantities
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[01:31:14] <Tom_L> make your own :)
[01:31:19] <Tom_L> laser etch
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[01:32:51] <andypugh> Finding the material (high silicon iron) seems to be 80% of the problem.
[01:33:06] <Tom_L> http://www.precisionmicro.com/20/laminations/
[01:33:34] <andypugh> I emailed a query, no reply.
[01:34:03] <ds3> machine out old transformers?
[01:34:27] <andypugh> It's a possibility, certainly.
[01:35:01] <ds3> wonder if you can melt cast iron in a crucible with a lot of sand?
[01:35:16] <andypugh> I can't
[01:35:44] <ds3> y?
[01:35:56] <Tom_L> fire brick
[01:36:01] <Tom_L> ceramic pot
[01:36:11] <Tom_L> i think
[01:36:24] <ds3> but will that reduce the sand to silicon?
[01:36:33] <andypugh> I am sure I could acquire the capability, but the last thing I need is yet another layer of abstraction from the original project.
[01:36:37] <ds3> or would you need to toss in charcoal ?
[01:36:50] <Tom_L> no idea how to do it right
[01:38:39] <jdhNC> You want to heat the cast iron to 1300ªC / 2500ªF for fifteen minutes
[01:38:53] <ds3> in an oxidizing or reducing atm?
[01:39:01] <Tom_L> i'm getting a source for sheet
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[01:40:25] <andypugh> I wanted to make a clock of my own design. So I bought a lathe/mill. Then decided that CNC would make it easier, so converted, then decided the machine wasn't very good, so got some servos, then found that the card they needed wasn't supported by EMC, so I wrote the driver, then found that was no good, so bought more servos, then a machine to suit the servos, then had to write more drivers.
[01:40:45] <ds3> so you had loads of fun?
[01:41:11] <jdhNC> either that, or have to deal with the hot chick with the triumph
[01:41:16] <Tom_L> so how's the clock coming along?
[01:41:18] <andypugh> So, 2 years down the line I am sat here writing software to move motors to work a machine that is in parts in the garage to make the clock.
[01:41:55] <Tom_L> http://www.lasertechnologiesinc.com/
[01:42:00] <Tom_L> another mfg
[01:42:13] <andypugh> Clock? What clock? The CNC machines are the fun part. I don't ever want to finish now.
[01:42:23] <elmo40> lol
[01:44:03] <ds3> don't you also need a EDM machine for the harden clock parts? ;)
[01:44:06] <jdhNC> I saw a youtube video of a guy rewinding a huge motor, the machine that helped looked kind of half-assed, but it seemed to do what it did well
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[01:46:12] <andypugh> Now there is a project that needs a lot of effort. It would be great for wire-EDM if EMC2 knew how to back-up the path to open the spark gap. I really can't, at the moment.
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[01:56:08] <UncleG> What would be the best choice for a home switch? wht kind/brand? rise fall?
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[01:58:59] <Tom_L> old ibm floppies have good microswitches
[01:59:02] <Tom_L> full height
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[02:03:20] <andypugh> I use optos.
[02:03:42] <andypugh> But they all have their plusses and minuses
[02:03:44] <Tom_L> interrupters?
[02:03:47] <Tom_L> yeah
[02:03:51] <Tom_L> that's true
[02:04:35] <Tom_L> switches bounce
[02:04:43] <Tom_L> optos get dirty
[02:06:58] <andypugh> Mine are focussed reflectives with a comparator. They work well and need surprisingly little offset from the base to work. https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5403345869882886242 is my lathe Z target (go back a shot for the detector)
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[02:11:34] <Tom_L> https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5506480949142923826
[02:11:35] <Tom_L> woops
[02:12:39] <andypugh> Found that behind my cooker in my new house. 1amp wire, 42A breaker, 13A cooker.
[02:13:37] <andypugh> Note how the earth is clamped onto the insulation, and the live is alongside the clamp screw....
[02:14:14] <Tom_L> jorneyman electrical quality
[02:15:40] <andypugh> I consider myself lucky that I found it, not the fire brigade forensics dept.
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[02:19:01] <ds3> andypugh: you sure you didn't order a copper sputtering system instead of a cooker?
[02:19:43] <ds3> or prehaps the expensive 42A breaker needs to be protected by the 1A fuse ;)
[02:21:26] <andypugh> It's a 16A one now, with 20A wire.
[02:21:42] <andypugh> A much better arangement.
[02:22:20] <ds3> but but you'll risk wearing out the 16A breaker's spring!
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[02:31:06] <andypugh> Nah, I don't do that much cooking.
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[03:11:14] <ssi> andy: you work out that threading?
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[03:14:04] <andypugh> eh? Not tonight, it's 4am and a holiday tomorrow, how sober do you estimate I am?
[03:14:52] <ssi> must you be sober to do math?
[03:15:10] <Connor> okay, So can anyone give me any ideas on implementing a grid probing setup so I can level up my spoiler board on my machine ?
[03:15:55] <andypugh> ssi: http://xkcd.com/323/
[03:16:28] <ssi> :D
[03:16:55] <andypugh> Connor: I think that is a solved problem. The trick is finding it.
[03:17:13] <Connor> yea. That's what I'm asking... :)
[03:17:35] <Connor> There is gridprobe.ngc
[03:17:52] <Connor> Question is, what to do with the results. :)
[03:18:04] <jdhNC> grizzly says they should still have my G0704 on Apr29
[03:18:18] * Valen has been running stuff for a new hot water system
[03:18:22] <Connor> I'm going to call Grizzly tomorrow to find out about that.
[03:18:24] <andypugh> There is a reason not to just skim it flat?
[03:18:25] <Valen> going from gravity feed to real hot water
[03:18:37] <ssi> I've had my G0704 for three months, and it's still on the pallet it arrived on
[03:18:40] <Valen> Connor there was something I saw for doing that for PCBs
[03:18:49] <jdhNC> heh, mine may end up that way for summer also
[03:18:51] <ssi> I did get ballscrews, bearings, and hardware for it recently tho
[03:18:56] <Connor> andypugh: I think that's what I'll do.. but.. I'm having issues with it trying to mill PCB's
[03:18:57] <ssi> I've been working on my G0602
[03:19:00] <ssi> which is now THREADING :D
[03:19:24] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywBOYxhBpSI
[03:19:25] <jdhNC> cool
[03:19:28] <ssi> hooorayyyy
[03:19:57] <Connor> I made a touch plate the other night.. which probably insn't ideal for the grid probe.. I need some sort of other switch.. I don't want to run around placing the plate under each point.. too much room for error.
[03:20:35] <ssi> ]I saw some drawings for a nice touch probe awhile back
[03:20:39] <andypugh> Connor: Is your question about the mechanics?
[03:20:40] <Connor> I have a slew of microswitches...
[03:20:58] <jdhNC> chuck up a flycutter and make it match?
[03:21:06] <Connor> andypugh: Yea.. and the software.. I guess the gridprobe.nrc would work.
[03:21:14] <ssi> if you're just trying to probe height, maybe something like a plasma cutter's initial height sensor
[03:21:24] <Connor> jdhNC: No. spoiler board has T slot bars in it...
[03:21:45] <jdhNC> oh
[03:21:53] <Connor> That's a thought.. I DO have QRD1114's.. but, I'm not sure if that would be accurate enough.
[03:22:06] <andypugh> Just use a microswitch. Any one microswitch will be quite consistent at a given speed on a given day. Probe a fractal to remove systematic errors.
[03:22:11] <Connor> I have some slot sensors I've been using for End Stops.. I might be able to make somthing from one of those too.
[03:22:32] <jdhNC> mine is lower on the right
[03:22:33] <ssi> "probe a fractal"?
[03:22:59] <andypugh> Reflective optos will work beautifully (focussed type, with a comparator)
[03:23:36] <Connor> I'm not sure if the QRD1114 is focused.
[03:23:37] <andypugh> Or make a full-on touch probe. It will come in handy :-)
[03:24:01] <Connor> andypugh: I have a coper plate with alagator clip.. but that's not going to cut it for this..
[03:24:24] <andypugh> http://www.brusselsprout.org/CNC/1P-Probe/
[03:25:06] <andypugh> Nicer: http://www.indoor.flyer.co.uk/probe.htm
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[03:25:26] <ssi> the latter is the one I remembered seeing
[03:25:31] <Connor> Yea, If I could make that, I wouldn't need the damn probe. :)
[03:26:29] <jdhNC> how will this level your table?
[03:26:47] <Connor> It won't.. It'll just tell me were it's high and were it's low..
[03:26:55] <andypugh> If your table is out of flat on the scale of a touch-probe then you need to start with a spirit level,
[03:27:00] <Connor> I'll lossen the bolts and add shims.. and reprobe.
[03:27:29] <ssi> what kind of machine is this on
[03:27:31] <andypugh> You know, that is really a job for a DTI in the spindle..
[03:27:36] <jdhNC> get a shaft that fits your spindle, attach a dial indicator?
[03:28:03] <Connor> DTI ?
[03:28:05] <elmo40> ya, what jdhNC says...
[03:28:24] <jdhNC> dial test indicator
[03:28:25] <andypugh> DTI == Dial Indicator
[03:28:39] <Connor> Yea.. Well.. I can make the touch probe without out too much issue.... I have to buy a dial indicator..
[03:28:54] <andypugh> You don't have one?
[03:29:01] <Connor> I have Calipers...
[03:29:06] <Connor> but no Dial Indicator..
[03:29:17] <archivist> dti is a basic requirement
[03:29:19] <andypugh> Digital calipers?
[03:29:28] <Connor> Yes. Digital Calipers.
[03:29:37] <elmo40> http://www.lighttoolsupply.com/catalog/Manufacturers/Starrett/Starrett-649-Spindle-Square?productID=340942
[03:29:42] <jdhNC> there used to be a harbor freight on broadway
[03:30:10] <Connor> There still is.
[03:30:11] <andypugh> dti is indispensable for a lathe, very useful for a mill, maybe optional on a router.
[03:30:25] <elmo40> the dial is easier to see if your table (or vice or fixtures...) are out.
[03:30:30] <Connor> jdhNC: How did you know? :)
[03:30:39] <jdhNC> I lived there too long
[03:30:44] <Connor> Ah.
[03:31:06] <andypugh> Connor: Tape the caliper to the Z, measure down to the bed with the depth stick, log the data with a pencil.
[03:31:28] <jdhNC> or go buy a $9.95 dial indicator tomorrow
[03:31:30] <ssi> that sounds tedious :P
[03:31:55] <Connor> Yea.. I tried that one night.. I put a sprint in the inside part to open back up.. and did that..
[03:32:01] <ssi> http://www.shars.com/products/view/1967/008quot_Dial_Test_Indicator_0001quot
[03:32:12] <ssi> there... for $30, you can map the flatness of your table to a tenth or less
[03:32:35] <elmo40> damn, that one rocks!
[03:32:59] <elmo40> 7jewels :P what kind, emeralds?
[03:33:10] <ssi> maybe!
[03:33:22] <jdhNC> I have some digital DI's somewhere with serial ports
[03:33:42] <elmo40> what is an Enginery Number? http://www.shars.com/products/gallery/1967/303-3205H.jpg/
[03:33:48] <jdhNC> http://www.shars.com/products/view/1933/1quot_Dial_Indicator_001quot
[03:33:49] <Connor> I was just thinking a simple touch probe would work prtty good too..
[03:33:52] <andypugh> ssi: Actually, that finger gauge is lovely, but useless for this job..
[03:34:08] <Connor> I'll try hooking up a micro switch and running the Z up and down and see how accurate it is.
[03:34:13] <ssi> not ideal I guess
[03:34:18] <ssi> you'd have to mount it all goofy
[03:34:48] <andypugh> jdhNC's link is the right one for the job.
[03:35:05] <elmo40> if my machine was accurate to tenths, I would use that finger indicator... alas, my machine (at home) is good for +- 0.003 >_<
[03:35:26] <ssi> for that, you might as well get the harbor freight $9 special if it's local
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[03:35:43] <jdhNC> I have a t-slot table, I use it to hold a piece of MDF and work on top of that
[03:35:59] <Connor> I'm checking to see if they have them instock local.
[03:36:12] <elmo40> I never bolt to my main table! I always have a sub plate to drill holes and such into.
[03:36:17] <jdhNC> they do, usually $19 or so but mostly on sale for half price
[03:36:50] <jdhNC> get a mag base too
[03:36:51] <Connor> Maybe I'll take a drive to out to them tomorrow.
[03:36:51] <elmo40> at work our main tables are covered in 2" of Al sub plate material. There, we put in a 1" pitch pin/thread pattern.
[03:36:53] <ssi> I'd like to do a nice tooling plate when I get the g0704 going
[03:37:06] <ssi> that MIC6 cast plate is asspensive tho
[03:37:07] <Connor> http://www.harborfreight.com/clamping-dial-indicator-93051.html
[03:37:21] <jdhNC> a big one made of 1/2" steel with lots of threaded inserts would be nice
[03:37:28] <Connor> My main board has T slots and holes... I really want to re-do it..
[03:37:42] <Connor> I mounted the T-slots wrong.. the ones on the outside are worthless.
[03:37:45] <jdhNC> I'd go for the plain mag base
[03:37:48] <ssi> pin/thread pattern is the way to go
[03:37:54] <elmo40> for sure.
[03:38:08] <elmo40> then I can put fixtures anywhere
[03:38:11] <Connor> Yea.. I using those Gnareld T-nots.
[03:38:23] <andypugh> Connor: That's so crude it's elegant
[03:38:23] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc9.jpg
[03:38:30] <elmo40> our machine is so large that it took 10hrs to drill , ream and tap all the holes
[03:38:34] <jdhNC> I use 80/20 nuts/bolts
[03:38:45] <Connor> Yea.. I want to replace it with 8020
[03:39:07] <Connor> Dang it.. let me take a more recent picture.. brb
[03:39:14] <jdhNC> I don't have any 80/20, just the nuts and bolts
[03:39:36] <jdhNC> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=35.906333,-84.086667&z=15
[03:39:49] <jdhNC> if you needed a map to connor's house
[03:40:04] <ssi> exif?
[03:40:23] <Connor> Hey now. How did you find me? :)
[03:40:24] <jdhNC> iphone + exif == evil
[03:40:25] <Connor> ROFL
[03:40:25] <elmo40> knoxville?
[03:40:29] <ssi> heheheh
[03:40:51] <jdhNC> knoxvegas
[03:41:01] <elmo40> what is that pile of brown in the middle of the subdivision?
[03:41:02] <andypugh> What's the hole?
[03:41:45] <andypugh> "Dead Horse Lake" (ROFL)
[03:42:45] <Jymmm> looks like it's literally a new subdivision
[03:42:55] <Jymmm> framing in the lower corner
[03:43:27] <Connor> what are you all talking about?
[03:43:29] <jdhNC> that's a long way from broadway
[03:43:39] <Jymmm> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=35.906333,-84.086667&ie=UTF8&ll=35.904435,-84.09066&spn=0.000692,0.001291&t=h&z=20
[03:43:45] <elmo40> is that a power station near oak ridge turnpike and blair rd?
[03:44:12] <Connor> oh yea.. new shopping center + business + condos/apartments
[03:44:35] <Connor> front part is retail, middle is office, back part condos/apartments
[03:45:52] <elmo40> where do people work?
[03:46:02] <ssi> should I make a power tailstock for drilling, or should I just make an MT mount for my toolpost
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[03:46:12] <elmo40> I hear so much about how the US economy is 'dead'. what do people do there for income?
[03:46:17] <andypugh> Google maps fun, an island in a lake, on an island, in a lake, on an island. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Taal+Lake,+Philippines&aq=0&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.933796,37.133789&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Taal+Lake&ll=13.993373,121.005135&spn=0.121094,0.145054&t=h&z=13
[03:46:34] <andypugh> ssi: Toolpost
[03:46:43] <ssi> probably saner
[03:46:55] <andypugh> ssi: EMC2 knows the absolute centre anyway
[03:47:11] <ssi> it will once I have homes
[03:47:15] <andypugh> What sort of toolpost is it?
[03:47:19] <ssi> right now it's all based on pickup of my ref tool :P
[03:47:23] <ssi> it's a phase II BXA
[03:47:28] <ssi> which I'm feeling like is too small
[03:47:34] <ssi> considering dropping bux on a CXA instead
[03:48:35] <ssi> it was actually just the product of poor ordering
[03:48:50] <ssi> I have a big old clausing, and it has a CXA post on it
[03:48:56] <ssi> but I thought it was BXA when I ordered this one
[03:49:07] <ssi> thinking "aha, I'll have plenty of holders for it"
[03:49:10] <andypugh> I have a Dickson clone, and a number of off-the-shelf morose tapir toolholders for it.
[03:49:24] <jdhNC> I have a wife and kids
[03:49:24] <ssi> I can likely get a MT holder for this one too
[03:50:03] <ssi> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=282-3225&PMPXNO=3347147&PARTPG=INLMK32
[03:50:25] <andypugh> jdhNC: Common mistake, probably too late to rectify it now.
[03:51:12] <jdhNC> yeah
[03:51:24] <andypugh> ssi: Now find one that isn't stupidly expensive
[03:51:29] <jdhNC> kids are close to leaving, hence close to maximum expenditure
[03:51:30] <ssi> yeah, that's the trick, eh
[03:51:47] <ssi> the dilemma is that the BXA holders hold 5/8" shank tools
[03:52:00] <ssi> and 5/8" shank insert tooling is somewhat unicornish
[03:52:04] <andypugh> EMC2 is really quite good at taper bores.
[03:52:06] <ssi> 3/4 and 1" tools are much easier to get
[03:52:23] <ssi> so... do I swap toolposts now while I haven't invested too much
[03:52:24] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc11.JPG
[03:52:27] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc12.JPG
[03:52:40] <ssi> or do I try cutting up toolholders to make them fit 3/4" shank tools
[03:52:41] <Connor> err. Nm the 12.
[03:52:46] <ssi> or cut up the tool shanks
[03:52:47] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc13.JPG
[03:53:00] <ssi> these are the things that keep me up at night
[03:53:04] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc10.JPG <--- router mount.. was talking about that last night.. redoing that in HDPE.
[03:53:40] <ssi> Connor: it looks like your gantry moves
[03:53:45] <andypugh> ssi: I would say probably yes (and eBay the old one). But be very careful, if you can't get the bigger tools as low as centre height it will not make you happy.
[03:53:47] <ssi> do you have pics of their motion?
[03:53:55] <Connor> It does move.
[03:54:02] <ssi> andypugh: I need a 2" riser for the BXA, I think it'll be ok
[03:54:07] <Connor> I have a video somewhere.. let me lookk
[03:54:40] <andypugh> I assume you disposed of the compound slide too?
[03:54:44] <ssi> yep
[03:55:41] <ssi> Connor: reason I ask, I have a little router that's similar in design
[03:55:50] <ssi> and I've never been happy with the way the Y motion works
[03:55:54] <ssi> the whole gantry rocks
[03:56:01] <Connor> Video sucks.. let me do a new one.. brb
[03:56:01] <ssi> considering redoing it to make the gantry fixed and move the table
[03:56:07] <ssi> I'm gonna show you pic in a sec
[03:56:54] <ssi> http://gallery.mac.com/tmbg/100089/IMG_1298/web.jpg?ver=13034445290001
[03:57:19] <ssi> lessee how long it takes jdh to pinpoint me on a map
[03:57:33] <andypugh> ssi: Trick is to make the gantry not rock (best) or rock about the tool tip.
[03:57:55] <ssi> it almost rocks about the tool tip
[03:58:02] <ssi> I dunno, I've never really had this machine running
[03:58:08] <ssi> it was the first one I ever built
[03:58:10] <ssi> like 2 years ago
[03:58:20] <ssi> and I only sorta knew what I was doing :P
[03:58:35] <ssi> it didn't have a spindle until a few months ago
[03:58:41] <jdhNC> does it pivot on the Y rails?
[03:59:07] <ssi> it runs on linear bearings
[03:59:16] <ssi> and there's just not enough distance in the Y direction
[03:59:17] <andypugh> Looks OK to me, but then I am still not sure I know what I am doing.
[03:59:48] <ssi> the original design had that whole cross slide just as a 3/4" thick hunk of aluminum with bronze bearings riding on the rails
[03:59:51] <ssi> that REALLY didn't work
[03:59:56] <jdhNC> looks like the gantry woudl be more rigid if the Y bearing blocks were longer or a pair further apart
[04:00:00] <ssi> so I redid it with a thicker block that eats a lot of travel
[04:00:14] <ssi> yea that's what it is now, but still not far enough apart
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[04:00:51] <ssi> it probably could be made to work ok
[04:01:00] <ssi> I just sorta lost interest when I started working on bigger machines
[04:01:35] <jdhNC> give up some more Y travel and make it a short/wide pcb miller
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[04:01:42] <ssi> yeah, that's probably what I need to do
[04:01:47] <ssi> what I really want this machine to do is engraving
[04:02:01] <ssi> it's a pretty cool little machine
[04:02:07] <ssi> and I overbuilt the hell out of it
[04:02:08] <ssi> heh
[04:02:16] <ssi> and did it all on a manual mill
[04:02:18] <ssi> took me ages
[04:03:14] <ssi> I'm not sure how useful that spindle is going to be... that was another of my half-conceived ideas
[04:03:21] <ssi> it's a 180W brushless RC motor
[04:03:50] <ssi> my first try with it was a cheapy air spindle... and that was TERRIBLE
[04:04:36] <ssi> case in point, if you want to be assaulted by noise:
[04:04:37] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu0K_P4UK1M&feature=channel_video_title
[04:04:57] <Connor> waiting for my phone to sync.. then I'll upload videos.
[04:07:20] <ssi> andy: you have a part number on those reflectives you use?
[04:10:32] <andypugh> ssi: Give me a moment
[04:10:37] <ssi> oke
[04:10:53] <ssi> I was going to use slot sensors, but the reflectives sound intriguing
[04:11:35] <ssi> my spindle encoder: http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/205204_655375525742_71107655_34534452_5631970_n.jpg
[04:12:03] <Connor> Wow. T slot sensors?
[04:12:06] <Connor> er. 3
[04:12:14] <ssi> A/B/Z
[04:12:32] <andypugh> ssi: http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/02af/0900766b802aff18.pdf
[04:12:45] <ssi> excellent, thanks
[04:13:19] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/IMG_0520.MOV
[04:13:48] <andypugh> ssi: https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5437113028782524642
[04:13:53] <Connor> Sort movements.. that's a PCB routing job.. in the air..
[04:14:12] <Connor> next video is my jogging it around.. it'll be up in a sec
[04:14:26] <ssi> andy: that's done using reflectives also?
[04:14:36] <ssi> guess it must be
[04:14:48] <andypugh> Yes, those are the OPBs I likned
[04:15:14] <ssi> I guess you'd have to use a focussed type with those narrow slots, eh?
[04:15:17] <andypugh> Urk! 5am! Must log!
[04:15:21] <ssi> onoes
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[04:16:05] <jdhNC> that's a lot of slots
[04:16:10] <ssi> agreed
[04:16:59] <ssi> I wonder how fast he can turn it and still get a stable count
[04:17:23] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/IMG_0522.MOV
[04:17:36] <Connor> okay. that's me jogging it around.
[04:17:39] <Connor> it's pretty quick.
[04:17:41] <ssi> your movies aren't loading for me :/
[04:17:43] <Connor> at least I think so.
[04:17:57] <Connor> crap.. let me upload to youtube then.. brb
[04:19:30] <ssi> one of these days I need to build a router head for my 4x4 machine
[04:19:35] <ssi> it's a plasma table at the moment
[04:23:27] <Connor> http://www.youtube.com/user/Conno9220#p/a/u/0/MdgN8r0tUzQ
[04:23:59] <Connor> http://www.youtube.com/user/Conno9220#p/u/0/RCNPz1ULUHI
[04:29:36] <Connor> Let me know what you think.. Back in a bit.
[04:35:54] <Jymmm> is that one of those robovacs?
[04:54:58] <billhome> p.s. I just changed some caps on my "LQQK! 5-AXIS TB6560 STEPPER DRIVER!" board, and the awful hiss is gone.
[04:55:09] <elmo40> nice
[04:55:46] <billhome> it probably still sucks, but sucks quietly.
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[05:33:30] <ssi> Connor: sry, I wandered off
[05:33:32] <ssi> looks good btw
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[07:07:36] <Connor> Jymmm: Robo vacs?
[07:07:53] <Jymmm> the base of argos
[07:08:17] <Connor> Oh, Your talking about Argos.. No.. It's a Create.. from IRobot, Educational platform based on the Roomba.
[07:08:32] <Jymmm> lol
[07:08:44] <Jymmm> ok, it IS a robovac I saw
[07:09:43] <Connor> Well.. Yes/No.. It's similar chassis.. just doesn't have the vacuum deck or dust bin.
[07:10:21] <Connor> One of my many projects I've done..
[07:10:47] <Connor> 2 Biped robots, Argos, RFID Door lock, Vacuum Former, CNC machine...
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[08:27:35] <IchGuckLive> anonimasu: ?
[08:27:48] <IchGuckLive> i found the motor datasheet
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[08:29:45] <anonimasu> I see what does it say?
[08:30:24] <IchGuckLive> nothing specific to me
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[09:39:25] <Paragon39> Just took the plunge and order one of these baby's .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCPNe_9GS3I&feature=related
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[10:05:44] <archivist> I see size as the main advantage, else I stick with the scopes I have
[10:21:51] <Paragon39> archivist: I have a couple of analogue scopes one 4 ch 100Mhz and one 2 channel 60Mhz. One of the reason I went for this scope is that I need to scope some floating outputs for the induction heater project I have been working on. I have decided to implement high side drivers to drive the mosfet bridge. I did use the differential function on the four channel which is only available on two of...
[10:21:53] <Paragon39> ...the channels (A-B) but I need to measure two floating points one triggering the other which I am unable to achieve. The DSO Quad being battery driven should act like a portable multi meter that is not tied to ground thus enabling me to measure the floating voltages. Hope that made sense! ;-)
[10:21:55] <Paragon39>
[10:23:22] <archivist> that thing dies at 80 volt in
[10:24:06] <archivist> use differential mode on a real scope maybe
[10:25:10] <Paragon39> True, but I am using an a variac so would not be scoping at full power additionaly it is 80v with 1x probe (which come with the unit) it is 400v with a 10x probe.
[10:26:26] <archivist> where I used to work there was a switch at the mains plug for removing the earth connection
[10:29:49] <Paragon39> archivist: as stated above I have used differential mode but I am limited to only one channel. The earth connection issue and using an issolation transformer is very dangerous and certainly not recommended due to the chassis of the scope being connected to earth. The chassis will have potential difference to earth if floated or disconnected from earth. Check page 3 http://www.cbtricks.com/miscella
[10:29:51] <Paragon39> neous/tech_publications/scope/floating.pdf
[10:30:27] <archivist> dangerous....whatever next :)
[10:30:32] <Paragon39> http://www.cbtricks.com/miscellaneous/tech_publications/scope/floating.pdf
[10:30:34] <Paragon39> lol
[10:31:44] <archivist> your tiny scope is then floating at the potential and just as dangerous
[10:33:37] <Paragon39> The other benifit is as you mentioned it's size and portability. I can move the scope from office(play room) to workshop without getting a hernia! From my understanding the chassis of the DSO is not connected to ground plane, it is also insulated (plastic).
[10:34:03] <Paragon39> Oh the hardware and software is opensource too!
[10:35:50] * jthornton needs to learn how to use my scope properly :/
[10:36:12] <Paragon39> jthornton: What scope do you own?
[10:37:22] <jthornton> a blue one, lol I'd have to look but I think it is a tecknics or something like that
[10:37:51] <jthornton> dual channel
[10:38:17] <archivist> tektronix
[10:38:29] <jthornton> yea, that one :)
[10:38:29] <Paragon39> Techtronics do you mean?
[10:38:38] <Paragon39> Nice scopes!
[10:38:59] <jthornton> it came with new probes
[10:40:34] <archivist> my oldest tek was about 1960, I just dismembered it though
[10:41:10] <Paragon39> I have a Hitachi v-1100A 100Mhz and an Iwatsu SS-5710 Dual (I think its 60Mhz) there getting on a bit now but still work OK'ish Both were ebay steals :-)
[10:42:00] <archivist> Im looking for an Iwatsu that takes plugins I have a spectrum analyser pluging but no scope
[10:42:10] <jthornton> this was an e-bay one that I got when I was having a problem with the Hardinge but the problem was not in the encoder
[10:42:52] <Paragon39> http://www.atecorp.com/Equipment/Hitachi/V1100A.asp
[10:43:38] <jthornton> mine looks similar to that
[10:44:14] <Paragon39> Iwatsu ... http://www.milcom.co.nz/items/item003.html
[10:45:05] <Paragon39> archivist: Do you know the Iwatsu model for pluggins?
[10:45:23] <jthornton> looks like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-TDS-340-2-Channel-Digital-Oscilloscope-NR-/280661659989?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item4158bd1155
[10:45:40] <archivist> Paragon39, I would have to dig out an old catalogue to get the model needed
[10:46:05] <Paragon39> No worries, just curious is all :-)
[10:46:35] <Paragon39> jthornton: Nice scope. You can't go wrong with Techtronics.
[10:46:58] <archivist> spelling is K not ch
[10:47:14] <archivist> and an x at the end
[10:47:45] <Paragon39> Jeez look at the price for the Iwatsu ... I paid like 40UKP about five year ago :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/IWATSU-SS-5710-OSCILLOSCOPE-60-MHZ-TESTED-GOOD-/300524700225?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item45f8ab0241
[10:48:35] <Paragon39> Mind you there is one going for $88.
[10:48:47] <archivist> there are some wishful thinkers on ebay
[10:49:24] <Paragon39> Yeah there sure is.
[10:49:53] <archivist> watch the item and see the price slowly drop, I am watching a counter for months and the seller is stubborn
[10:49:55] <jthornton> when it says 60 MHz or 200 MHz is that the speed of the signal it can measure?
[10:50:02] <archivist> yes
[10:50:15] <archivist> 3db point
[10:50:19] <Paragon39> Do you guys own the Messa 7i43 card?
[10:50:33] <jthornton> nope 5i20 here
[10:52:04] <Paragon39> I have one that I bought awhile back and apprehensively am going to start playing with it.
[10:52:47] <Paragon39> Great cards but they look a little fragile to voltages etc.
[10:53:40] <Paragon39> So was hoping for some pointers on do's and don'ts and so on.
[11:17:00] <MattyMatt> I just watched a vid about why you should never go outside the rails on cmos inputs & outputs
[11:17:10] <MattyMatt> that's a don't, for sure
[11:26:15] <MattyMatt> mesa sell all the buffers as separate boards, maybe you should make or buy those?
[11:29:34] <Jymmm> outside the rails??????????????
[11:30:16] <Jymmm> cmos choo choo train?
[11:30:42] <anonimasu> MattyMatt: why worry so much?
[11:30:48] <anonimasu> they are _fairly_ cheap
[11:31:04] <anonimasu> and for inputs optoisolated ones is the way to do
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[12:12:29] <Paragon39> Does anyone know how I should wire this variac for 220-240v input / output? https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B53oJoJXbpkCYTEyMjQzZjUtMGY3Ni00ZWQ5LTk1MzQtZmQ1YzdmMTA1OWMw&sort=name&layout=list&num=50
[12:12:51] <Paragon39> https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B53oJoJXbpkCOTM0MzJlMzUtMjkwMy00Mzg4LTkwY2EtZDZlMjNmOTQ2NTM5&sort=name&layout=list&num=50
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[12:33:35] <alex_joni> anyone that knows postfix around?
[12:35:51] <e-jones> alex_joni: what about '/join #postfix'? :)
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[12:39:07] <alex_joni> e-jones: yeah, though there I need to wade through tons of noise
[12:40:59] <e-jones> alex_joni: so answer is - 'little bit' :)
[12:58:35] <cradek> alex_joni: dataja
[12:59:16] <cradek> alex_joni: (does that also count for OT?)
[12:59:26] <alex_joni> well.. I want to add bcc's to outgoing emails (using sender_bcc_maps)
[13:00:13] <alex_joni> since I don't have access to my mail server (hosted somewhere) I want to add an relaying postfix that does this
[13:00:13] <cradek> eek
[13:00:36] <alex_joni> it gets eeker :P
[13:00:52] <cradek> sounds like that would violate the trust of your users
[13:01:13] <cradek> also, they'll eventually get a bounce from the bcc address and you'll be found out
[13:01:20] <alex_joni> no, they are aware it's for archiving issues
[13:01:30] <alex_joni> it's just that I don't trust them to always add it by hand
[13:01:35] <cradek> what's your actual goal?
[13:02:51] <alex_joni> add a bcc to outgoing emails for one account
[13:03:47] <SadMan> alex_joni: always_bcc
[13:03:52] <cradek> ah, just one user
[13:03:57] <cradek> I was imagining whole site
[13:04:28] <alex_joni> SadMan: the bcc part is actually the easy part from what I've read
[13:04:54] <alex_joni> I was wondering how to do the relaying now, as I'd like to relay all the email (have the MTA locally relay to the official SMTP)
[13:05:06] <alex_joni> but it needs to authenticate against the SMTP for each account
[13:06:03] <cradek> eek (again)
[13:06:08] <SadMan> well, good luck ;-)
[13:06:45] <SadMan> for each mail you need different auth depending on the sender?
[13:06:47] <alex_joni> cradek: like I said.. "it gets eeker"
[13:06:56] <cradek> that sounds somewhere between hard and impossible
[13:07:11] <alex_joni> SadMan: there are already email accounts at domain.com
[13:07:21] <cradek> (sounds like time for self hosting)
[13:07:27] <alex_joni> now I want to have foo.domain.com (locally) which forwards mail to domain.com
[13:07:40] <alex_joni> but still keep user1:pass1@domain.com
[13:07:41] <cradek> but domain.com doesn't trust foo.domain.com to relay
[13:07:59] <alex_joni> hmm.. good question, I can probably make it trust it
[13:08:06] <cradek> can you just fix that and do auth locally
[13:08:10] <cradek> yeah then it's easy
[13:08:20] <cradek> by easy I mean possible :-)
[13:08:34] <alex_joni> it's a fscking cpanel, I have little idea if it's possible
[13:09:07] <alex_joni> hmm.. I can add mx'es
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[13:15:52] <Paragon39> I have used a variac and isolation transformer in the past and have had it setup in both of the following configurations. 'Mains > variac > isolation TX > test' and ' Mains > isolation tx > Variac > test' but what is the correct topology and why?
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[13:21:48] <atom1> Mains > Isolation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer
[13:22:18] <atom1> oh and the why ^^
[13:23:56] <atom1> the short is you're not completely isolating it otherwise
[13:26:02] <Paragon39> atom1: I should of made myself clearer is it better to have the iso on before or after the variac?
[13:26:18] <atom1> before
[13:26:34] <atom1> but i'm not a licensed electrician either
[13:29:32] <Paragon39> Well I thought iso before but after reading this post reply's 5 6 and 7 http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=13960 they state variac before iso. So now i'm confused!
[13:31:41] <Paragon39> I guess the reason for the variac to be before is that the chassis can be earthed. So in the event of a short it will trip the fuse / breaker?
[13:32:23] <atom1> do it that way then
[13:32:42] <atom1> it just made sense to me for complete isolation you would put the transformer first
[13:32:43] <Paragon39> Still not 100% sure now though ;-)
[13:33:13] <atom1> as wiki stated, it also helps prevent ground loops
[13:33:23] <atom1> i dunno.
[13:34:03] <Paragon39> atom1: I agree, me too. In fact I have 240-110 iso going into a 110v variac on my other setup. But then I had no choice as I needed to step down from 220 to 110V.
[13:34:37] <atom1> gotta run
[13:34:50] <Paragon39> No probs... Thanks buddy!
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[13:38:21] <ssi> looks like my solid state relays aren't going to be here today
[13:38:25] <ssi> so what else can I work on...
[13:59:38] <JT-Shop> my shop :P
[14:02:12] <mrsunshine> hmm, how to check if dovetails are straight? ... do it with a bar and a micrometer? :)
[14:02:14] <mrsunshine> two bars
[14:02:16] <mrsunshine> roundstock
[14:02:40] <ssi> you got it
[14:02:42] <cradek> do you mean parallel?
[14:03:05] <Valen> we put camera on our head the other day
[14:03:18] <Valen> found out Z moves 2mm to one side over the range of travel
[14:03:19] <Valen> oops
[14:03:57] <mrsunshine> cradek, i guess, so theya re as wide in the upper part as lower
[14:04:04] <mrsunshine> as my mill tend to bound the lower down i get
[14:04:40] <cradek> bars will sit on the high points
[14:05:20] <cradek> suggest using dowel pins so they are short enough to measure a localized area
[14:11:33] <archivist> levels are often used for machine testing
[14:14:06] <archivist> I should scan some books I have as machine testing is a common question in here
[14:14:20] <ssi> I finally got a machinists level, and I really need to level all my machines
[14:14:29] <ssi> but I don't even know where to start
[14:15:21] <anonimasu> with the one you use the most
[14:15:47] <ssi> well I mean
[14:15:53] <ssi> beyond confirming that yep, it's not level
[14:16:00] <ssi> how do I go about effecting change
[14:16:01] <ssi> hahah
[14:16:12] <ssi> first machine would probably be my big mill
[14:16:13] <ssi> bridgeport clone
[14:16:24] <ssi> not sure what to shim it with
[14:16:27] <cradek> when people say to level a lathe, they mean use the level to remove any twist in the bed
[14:16:47] <ssi> yea, I realise that... and I've seen that done with paper shims under the lathe feet
[14:16:51] <cradek> there's little point in leveling a bridgeport, unless you want to later use the level to set work parallel to the table
[14:17:01] <ssi> well that's why I want to level it
[14:17:10] <ssi> also it's not sitting flat on the floor, and it rocks at extreme table travel
[14:17:10] <cradek> oh ok, then level it :-)
[14:17:13] <ssi> which can't be a good thing
[14:17:24] <ssi> I've lived with it that way for several years though :P
[14:17:25] <cradek> yikes, rocking is really not good
[14:17:37] <archivist> but beware of wear, the level should show that too if used all over
[14:17:43] <cradek> a real bridgeport has holes in the foot you can tap for feet. your clone might too.
[14:17:49] <ssi> it's got holes
[14:18:00] <cradek> tap them, make feet, level
[14:18:16] <ssi> not sure how I'd get it off the ground enough at this point
[14:18:27] <ssi> it was like building the pyramids getting the thing in there
[14:18:43] <archivist> large lump placed on the machine may spring enough to show on a level
[14:18:43] <cradek> you can very easily lift it with a prybar enough to put feet under the bolts you add.
[14:19:24] <ssi> I suppose I'd need to lift it and set it on blocks to have clearance to tap it
[14:20:09] <archivist> level with tapers and grout, old method
[14:20:24] <ssi> hm maybe that's a good first project with the cnc lathe
[14:20:28] <ssi> make some awesome machine feet
[14:22:00] <JT-Shop> unless you have a Hardinge CHNC you don't have to level that lathe, the bed and spindle are soft mounted to the frame and there is only one adjustable foot
[14:22:01] <archivist> a bible for methods of checking Testing machine tools 8th edition for the use of machine tool makers, users, inspectors and plant engineers G Schlesinger
[14:22:42] <ssi> no, use the lathe to make feet for the bridgeport
[14:23:53] <archivist> lots of related info Machine tool reconditioning and applications of hand scraping Edward F. Connelly Machine Tool Publications
[14:24:17] <ssi> ohh I've been looking for that book
[14:24:45] <ssi> I have an old clausing 6300 that needs to be scraped in
[14:24:56] <ssi> need to find or make a dovetail master
[14:25:16] <archivist> they still sell it
[14:25:29] <archivist> inflated cost though
[14:25:33] <mrsunshine> a couple of dovetail cutters shouldnt be to bad to have
[14:26:13] <ssi> I bought a 1x3 hunk of cast iron bar, intending to cut it down and hand-scrape a dovetail reference
[14:26:17] <ssi> but the whole thing just sounds so daunting
[14:34:31] <archivist> Valen, was the camera looking in the right direction
[14:37:36] <Valen> believe so
[14:37:41] <Valen> should check that
[14:37:46] <Valen> anyway time for bed for I
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[14:43:37] <mrsunshine> hmm, i dont get this scraping stuff =)
[14:43:45] <ssi> haha
[14:43:48] <mrsunshine> doesnt look to be any kind of precision in it ?
[14:43:59] <mrsunshine> but still it tells me its the way to go for precision ? :)
[14:44:21] <ssi> yea, pretty much
[14:44:27] <ssi> it removes very little metal
[14:44:31] <ssi> and you only scrape the high spots
[14:44:35] <ssi> and eventually it ends up flat
[14:45:18] <mrsunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHF7TtHVSWE&feature=related looks to me like he misses the high spots alot also =9
[14:47:24] <ssi> doesn't matter
[14:47:29] <ssi> just gotta keep spotting and scraping
[14:47:33] <ssi> until your spotting is very uniform
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[14:48:37] <mrsunshine> very uniform as in even over the surface?
[14:48:42] <archivist> yes
[14:48:53] <ssi> yeah, rather than having large areas of blue and large areas without
[14:48:56] <mrsunshine> sucks that i do not have any old mechanics that can teach me stuff like this =)
[14:49:00] <mrsunshine> all i have is youtube :P
[14:49:03] <ssi> you want a uniform pattern of small spots per square inch
[14:49:30] <mrsunshine> but one dot can be higher then the others still ? :)
[14:49:36] <mrsunshine> or maybe not
[14:49:41] <ssi> you'll always have some high spots and low spots
[14:49:42] <mrsunshine> as that would lift the surrounding material up
[14:49:44] <archivist> the slight error is good for oil film
[14:49:46] <ssi> you need the low spots to hold oil
[14:49:54] <ssi> but if it was just one high spot
[14:49:59] <ssi> you would see vast seas of low
[14:50:29] <mrsunshine> but this stuff requires specialized tools or? :)
[14:50:34] <mrsunshine> more then a very flat surface?
[14:51:08] <ssi> you need a reference surface and a scraper
[14:51:11] <ssi> and some prussian blue
[14:51:17] <archivist> surface table, engineers blue , elbow grease, and a scraper
[14:51:50] <archivist> to make a surface table you need three slabs to start with
[14:52:00] <ssi> nah you only need two for a surface
[14:52:06] <ssi> you need three for a square
[14:52:19] <archivist> three else you create a sphere
[14:52:36] <ssi> you just have to rotate the two against each other from time to time to avoid a potato chip
[14:52:50] <archivist> no still a sphere
[14:52:58] <archivist> think about it
[14:53:06] <ssi> yea I suppose that's possible
[14:53:55] <ssi> although you could just spot it offset in different ways, and that'd show up pretty quickly
[14:53:59] <archivist> lesson one for a scraper engineer is making his surface plate
[14:54:14] <mrsunshine> but a scraper can be just about anything or? ... as long as its hardened? :)
[14:54:23] <ssi> they're cheap enough
[14:54:31] <archivist> old file ground
[14:54:32] <ssi> I've heard of people using the end of a big file
[14:54:56] <archivist> carbide one lasts longer
[14:55:41] <ssi> http://www.mcmaster.com/#machinists'-scrapers/=bzjv0n
[14:55:56] <ssi> I have that cheap flat scraper
[14:56:04] <ssi> 3801A11
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[15:05:13] <alex_joni> http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/21/easter-reminder-kinder-eggs-banned-in-the-united-states/?hpt=C2
[15:05:20] <alex_joni> ^^ hilarious
[15:06:01] <ssi> I love those things
[15:06:04] <Connor> ssi: You look at those videos last night?
[15:06:09] <ssi> Connor: ya
[15:06:36] <ssi> what sort of rails/bearings did you use for Y?
[15:07:05] <Connor> I'm pretty proud of my little machine. First one I built.. No plans or anything.
[15:07:22] <ssi> heheh yeah, my first was the same way
[15:07:23] <Connor> Ones from ebay seller named linearmotionbearings2009.
[15:07:41] <ssi> I actually drew it all up in solidworks, printed drawings, and made all the parts on my bridgeport
[15:07:48] <Connor> Those are 12mm.. I should have went with 16mm to better match the screws..
[15:08:09] <ssi> are they round shafts, or profile rail, or what
[15:08:11] <Connor> Oh. Well.. I used Visio.. Table saw and hand drill.
[15:08:22] <Connor> Supported Rail.
[15:08:33] <ssi> gotcha
[15:09:24] <Connor> which is why 12mm was fine to go with.. 16mm would have given me the correct height for the bearing blocks and I wouldn't have had to add 1/4" shims under the bearing blocks.. and mill out pockets for the ballnuts to have clearance.
[15:10:39] <Connor> I did make a mistake.. I originally was trying to get 6" of Z travel.. But, forgot to take into account the ball nut.
[15:10:56] <Connor> ended up with 4.5" of travel.. but the gantry has 6" of clearance.
[15:11:57] <Connor> I want to rebuilt the Z axis... It kinda got a little sloppy..
[15:14:12] <ssi> I'll get back on my little machine sometime
[15:14:22] <ssi> I want to get this lathe wrapped up, and then convert my g0704
[15:14:40] <Connor> Yea. I'm getting ready to get a 704.
[15:15:00] <ssi> I haven't done anything with min
[15:15:03] <ssi> still sitting on the floor
[15:15:13] <ssi> I may try to fix that today
[15:15:21] <Connor> Dang.. well.. then.. send it to me. :)
[15:15:50] <ssi> haha well
[15:15:55] <ssi> I need cnc mill more and more every day
[15:15:57] <ssi> so it's about to happen
[15:16:01] <ssi> just got my ballscrews and bearings
[15:20:29] <Connor> Cool. after I get that.. I'm going to get a little lathe.
[15:20:43] <Connor> I'm debating about adding it on the table as a 4th axis or leaving it independant.
[15:21:39] <ssi> leave it independent
[15:21:44] <ssi> and don't get a lathe little enough to do that
[15:21:45] <ssi> hahah
[15:22:07] <Connor> That's all the room I have.. that's why I'm only getting the 704
[15:22:25] <ssi> probably better off with a decent CNC rotary table + tailstock
[15:22:35] <ssi> for a fourth axis
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[15:25:47] <Connor> I'm looking for the site that had the conversion on it.. I thought it was Hoss...
[15:25:57] <ssi> the 704? that'd be hoss
[15:26:02] <ssi> g0704.com I think
[15:26:15] <Connor> yea.. but.. he had a page were he added a lath spindle to it..
[15:26:24] <ssi> yea I saw some of his stuff
[15:26:28] <ssi> he cut down a 7x lathe
[15:30:29] <ssi> dammit, I screwed up bad :(
[15:30:35] <ssi> i ordered solid state relays
[15:30:42] <ssi> but i only ordered three
[15:30:45] <ssi> I need three DPST
[15:30:46] <ssi> :(
[15:30:51] <Connor> Ouch.
[15:30:55] <Connor> What for ?
[15:31:08] <ssi> spindle control
[15:31:20] <ssi> there's six switched lines in the fwd/rev switch on the 602
[15:31:37] <jdhNC> use h-bridges?
[15:31:45] <ssi> hm mebbe
[15:31:50] <ssi> I have a crapload of power transistors
[15:35:56] <ssi> I wonder if I can get optocouplers locally
[15:36:30] <Connor> not at radio shack.
[15:36:35] <ssi> no?
[15:36:36] <ssi> booo
[15:36:40] <Connor> I don't think so.
[15:41:04] <Connor> was the speed on my router pretty good ?
[15:41:07] <Connor> the rapids ?
[15:42:09] <ssi> looks pretty fast
[15:42:16] <ssi> hard to tell cause they're mostly short moves, and in accel
[15:42:26] <Connor> look at the 2nd video.
[15:42:38] <ssi> yea ok
[15:42:41] <ssi> that's pretty fast
[15:42:56] <ssi> looks like you have pretty high lead screws though
[15:43:16] <Connor> high ?
[15:43:20] <Connor> high end ?
[15:43:24] <ssi> high lead
[15:43:32] <Connor> yea. 1 to 10mm
[15:43:33] <ssi> what are they, like .5"/rev (2tpi) or what
[15:43:40] <ssi> k
[15:43:46] <Connor> motors in 1/2 stepping
[15:43:54] <Connor> the z is 1 to 5 mm
[15:44:05] <ssi> what's your minimum step size in mm
[15:44:19] <ssi> mm/step rather
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[15:44:42] <Connor> should be 0.025mm
[15:44:50] <Connor> 400 steps to a complete turn.
[15:44:57] <ssi> 400 halfsteps
[15:44:57] <ssi> ya
[15:45:57] <ssi> I put some 5 start screws in my little machine when I was first working on it
[15:46:00] <ssi> and they were OMGFAST
[15:46:03] <ssi> but not precise enough
[15:46:15] <ssi> so I went back to the .1"/rev acmes that I had been using
[15:46:16] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEAsDafIYUI&feature=channel_video_title
[15:46:19] <ssi> that's with the 5 starts
[15:46:47] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5ABDpIDqd0&feature=relmfu
[15:46:48] <ssi> and that
[15:47:17] <Connor> so, each step would be 0.00009842"
[15:47:27] <Connor> I figured that was good enough.
[15:47:39] <ssi> I think you have too many zeroes in there
[15:47:44] <ssi> each step is ~0.001"
[15:48:10] <Connor> should have been 3 0's
[15:48:17] <Connor> 0.0009842
[15:48:27] <ssi> right
[15:48:28] <Connor> dang yours is fast..
[15:48:43] <Connor> that Z is WAY fast.
[15:48:47] <ssi> yeah it was fast
[15:48:54] <ssi> but there's just no reason for it
[15:48:54] <ssi> heh
[15:49:11] <Connor> My ball screws are really tight..
[15:49:20] <Connor> Using 340oz/in motors..
[15:49:30] <Connor> on the X and Y.. and 220 or so on the Z
[15:49:31] <ssi> mine are all 381oz
[15:49:46] <ssi> actually I think those on t hat machine were 270
[15:49:52] <ssi> and those motors ended up on my plasma table
[15:50:15] <Connor> 354oz on X/Y, 287oz/in on the Z
[15:50:33] <ssi> sry no, they're 205
[15:50:34] <ssi> wow
[15:50:39] <Connor> but, I'm not sure they're getting full power.
[15:50:41] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP-gzXDXcaI
[15:50:47] <ssi> those are the motors that are on the plasma now
[15:50:57] <ssi> I built those little 3:1 reductions for it
[15:51:13] <ssi> X and Y are rack and pinion
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[15:52:00] <mrsunshine> hmm, thermal threading of plastic, shouldnt that be a nice option ? :)
[15:52:07] <mrsunshine> just popped into my head just now
[15:52:23] <ssi> like with a heated mold?
[15:52:24] <mrsunshine> heat the rod, and go trhought the plastic until you get to the cold parts, let cool =)
[15:52:32] <mrsunshine> heat the screw
[15:52:38] <ssi> oh internal threading
[15:52:42] <mrsunshine> aye
[15:52:51] <ssi> I've seen people do plastic leadscrew nuts that way
[15:53:00] <mrsunshine> cool =)
[15:53:16] <mrsunshine> i figure it should be about the most precise way when building from scratch :P
[15:53:30] <ssi> the way I did it was to take a hunk of my acme screw and grind a flute it it
[15:53:33] <ssi> and tap delrin
[15:55:53] <Connor> Full stepping would give me .001968"
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[15:59:53] <mrsunshine> well something has to be done to this mill atleast, its crooked in so many ways :P
[15:59:56] <mrsunshine> stupid china
[16:04:26] <anonimasu> and here I am whining that my probe will only repeat within 0.000039" in one direction and 0.0039" in the other
[16:07:29] <mrsunshine> for that scraping stuff, should the paint be the one they use to mark metal or what? :)
[16:07:47] <archivist> no marking blue is different
[16:08:30] <mrsunshine> i was thinking of drying times etc
[16:08:40] <mrsunshine> the one i see in the stuff on youtube seems very very thick
[16:09:00] <archivist> marking out blue dries, the blue for fitting stays damp and gets everywhere
[16:09:31] <mrsunshine> trying to figure out what it is in swedish :P
[16:10:08] <archivist> http://tooltray.com/hand-tools/engineering-tools/micrometers/micrometer-blue/tin-of-micrometer-blue.htm?utm_source=Tooltray&utm_medium=Froogle&utm_campaign=Shopping
[16:10:29] <archivist> stuarts micrometer blue
[16:11:03] <archivist> warning keep it level on a shelf
[16:11:29] <archivist> it capiliaries out of the tin
[16:12:21] <mrsunshine> heh
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[16:14:07] <archivist> not seen my tin for a while, I wonder where its leaking
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[16:23:58] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[16:24:21] <IchGuckLive> anonimasu: ?
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[16:32:58] <IchGuckLive> someone nows if ican give a Voltige lests say 15V and litle Amps to a servo motor UVW will this turn the motor for trial ?
[16:36:37] <awallin> if it's a small-ish DC servo it will turn with a 9V battery
[16:36:56] <awallin> oh UVW, that means 3-phase?
[16:37:13] <awallin> voltage to one coil should fix the rotor in one place then (?)
[16:37:41] <IchGuckLive> its not a stepper its a 230V AC servo motor 100W
[16:39:23] <awallin> I guess voltage over any one pair of UVW should pull the rotor to one position
[16:41:28] <IchGuckLive> yes )V did it
[16:41:32] <IchGuckLive> 9V
[16:44:34] <awallin> great now you need 3 batteries and you can do commutation by hand!
[16:46:32] <IchGuckLive> i did 1 turn
[16:47:11] <IchGuckLive> after i had trouble for 5 Days now getting the AC Servo System and Driver to work with no success
[16:47:37] <IchGuckLive> 1 turn by hand FOER THE PERSONAL Itusiastic
[16:50:15] <IchGuckLive> someone has expiriance with Incremental Rotory Encoder
[16:50:35] <IchGuckLive> my got 8 Cable
[16:50:45] <IchGuckLive> Red Blach seams 5V 0 V
[16:51:23] <IchGuckLive> Blue ,Yellow,green 2 eatch one has a black - every 5 mm
[16:51:55] <jdhNC> should be pairs, a/b/z
[16:52:31] <IchGuckLive> ok but z does not pukse every rot it seams it is eaqal to the AB
[16:53:13] <IchGuckLive> can i find out with a OSZI if the wirer with the - on it is the /A
[16:53:50] <archivist> read docs for device, wiring is explained
[16:54:06] <jdhNC> or taht
[16:54:45] <archivist> most important that is, we on irc can only guess
[16:55:31] <IchGuckLive> in the Doc there is a Blue/wite Yellow/wite Green/wite
[16:55:57] <IchGuckLive> the cables are all the same color Eatcg A,B,ZCS
[16:56:17] <IchGuckLive> this is so confusing ZCS
[16:56:37] <IchGuckLive> Motor Datasheet Says Zindex 1/revolution
[16:57:04] <IchGuckLive> but there is no Z cable it is S+,S-
[16:57:09] <awallin> to see the z-signal you have to rotate the motor slowly and look carefully
[16:57:50] <IchGuckLive> awallin: i have a 2 line oszi on it and there all nearly the same Freqency as i rotate slow
[16:58:02] <IchGuckLive> 200Pulses/revolu
[16:58:06] <IchGuckLive> 2000
[16:58:47] <IchGuckLive> the Driver has inputs for A,B,C,S
[17:00:00] <awallin> you have to check if the driver wants encoder pulses or hall-signald for commutation. or both.
[17:00:22] <IchGuckLive> eighter the signals seam to be half + half - inthe osziloscope
[17:01:02] <awallin> if the encoder has differential signals then they will be symmetric, i.e. +A and -A
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[17:06:43] <IchGuckLive> awallin: woudt you google for the i533-e1-02.pdf its a R7m-A10030-S1 motor
[17:07:04] <IchGuckLive> the page is 63 for the encoder discription
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[17:14:12] <Connor> Thoughts on a Digital Dial Indicator ?
[17:14:31] <jdhNC> thye are good for measuring thigns, but not for indicating runout/etc
[17:15:59] <Connor> because you need the needle going back and forth to see the changes.. digital not fast enough.. and hard to visualize.. I assume ?
[17:16:52] <jdhNC> yep
[17:17:47] <Connor> What accessories should I get with my mill to start with.. I have NO machine tools.. just a few 1/8" endmills for my router.. and 1 1/4" one.
[17:18:41] <atom1> cutters, vise scrap plate
[17:18:52] <atom1> measuring equipment
[17:18:54] <Jymmm> Beer Dispenser
[17:19:33] <Jymmm> clamping kit
[17:19:49] <Connor> Tooling gonna cost as much as the mill..
[17:19:54] <atom1> step clamps, 123 blocks
[17:20:02] <atom1> more
[17:20:17] <Jymmm> eh one the 123 blocks
[17:20:23] <Jymmm> eh on the 123 blocks
[17:20:36] <Connor> 123 blocks ?
[17:20:45] <atom1> i also got a precision gage block to calibrate my calipers etc
[17:21:19] <atom1> http://www.travers.com/product.asp?RequestData=CA_Search&navPath=All+Products%2F%2F%2F%2FUserSearch1%3D123+blocks&eaprodid=84394%2D57%2D020%2D430
[17:21:27] <atom1> yes, 123 blocks
[17:21:42] <Jymmm> No, 123 blocks
[17:21:52] <atom1> maybe 123 blocks
[17:22:00] <Connor> okay.. what do you use those for ?
[17:22:07] <atom1> counting
[17:22:09] <awallin> IchGuckLive: on page 65 of i533-e1-02.pdf it seems to talk of a normal A/B/Z encoder, but then there is mention of some serial communication also... you should see a square wave on A, another on B but shifted, and one pulse per rev on S. that's the normal encoder signals. The drive probably wants hall-signals too, those would need another 3-5 wires.
[17:22:49] <atom1> oh, wiggle finder
[17:23:06] <atom1> http://www.travers.com/prodlist.asp?RequestData=CA_Search&q=edge%20finder&search_method=keyword&tag=STP
[17:23:11] <atom1> edge finder
[17:23:32] <atom1> last word indicator
[17:23:41] <Jymmm> Nah, not to start with... Just a step clamping kit and whatever tooling you KNOW you'll use for sure.
[17:23:49] <Jymmm> maybe a vise
[17:24:02] * atom1 sticks Jymmm's finger in the vise
[17:24:04] <anonimasu> a _good_ vise
[17:24:10] <Jymmm> but you can always get/finds the ectras later for cheap
[17:24:12] <Connor> yea, I was gonna say.. STARTING with.
[17:24:16] <atom1> kurt make the very best vises
[17:24:21] <Connor> Absolute min stuff.
[17:24:30] <anonimasu> if you are bothering to buy one(which I recommend)
[17:24:33] <Jymmm> atom1: Then give Connor YOUR CC number
[17:24:34] <atom1> imo, that is pretty much minimum
[17:24:36] <archivist> clamping and vise
[17:24:45] <atom1> or you will start a job and realize you don't have something
[17:25:16] <IchGuckLive> awallin: thanks
[17:25:23] <archivist> endmill holding in the spindle
[17:25:26] <anonimasu> IchGuckLive: how's it going?
[17:25:36] <atom1> well i gave you a list. you can prioritize the list
[17:25:37] <IchGuckLive> awallin: so it vis A/B/S
[17:25:46] <Jymmm> atom1: Then give Connor YOUR CC number
[17:25:49] <Connor> Well..Endmills, and collects are a must.
[17:26:02] <atom1> drill set
[17:26:09] <Connor> and I think a set of the step clamps.
[17:27:06] <atom1> 115 drill set
[17:27:12] <Jymmm> There's a 25% off coupon on Sunday too... http://www.harborfreight.com/58-piece-combination-step-block-and-clamp-set-3-8-eighth-inch-16-nc-studs-1-2-half-inch-clamps-5952.html
[17:27:15] <atom1> letter number fraction
[17:27:17] <Connor> Grizzle has a 52pc clamp set.
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[17:27:33] <Connor> yup.. sameone grizzle has.
[17:27:43] <Jymmm> ecept it's 58 piece
[17:28:30] <Connor> which works with the 704 or mini mills ?
[17:28:37] <atom1> tap and die set
[17:28:57] <atom1> dowel pins
[17:29:36] <atom1> the list goes on
[17:29:36] * Jymmm places atom1's vagina in vise grips!
[17:30:43] <atom1> ok, all you really need is a pair of vise grips, and one endmill
[17:32:14] <Jymmm> And a yeast infection kit if you get vise grips from atom1
[17:42:38] <Connor> 3/8 or 1/2 on the clamps? Which works with 704 and/or mini mill ?
[17:45:26] <tom3p> standards for tnuts & slots ( to help find what you need ) http://www.te-co.com/T+Slot+Nuts-C-PG1045-C-.aspx
[17:45:27] <tom3p> and a bit cheaper src is the gibraltar brand at MSC
[17:46:53] <Connor> 3/8 for the 704.. can't tell on the mini.. I would guess it's the same..
[17:47:45] <Connor> well.. I'm wrong.. it's .465"
[17:47:46] <Connor> wtf
[18:00:57] <ds3> 7
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[19:44:33] <ssi> g0704 is off the floor and on a stand
[19:44:34] <ssi> hooray
[19:44:41] <ssi> aaand my back is not happy with me
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[19:56:45] <archivist> silly boy, I would probably do the same though
[19:56:56] <archivist> or jack and pack
[19:57:03] <ssi> I used an engine hoist
[19:57:11] <ssi> but still managed to hurt myself :)
[19:58:12] <archivist> I do a lot of roller and lever mainly for moving lumps around
[19:58:52] <JT-Shop> I moved 6000lb machines by hand and lever
[19:59:11] <ssi> i moved my bridgeport into my basement with iron pipes and a 7' trackbar
[19:59:36] <ssi> god forbid I ever move
[19:59:51] <ssi> actually at this point, I have six machines in the house. If I ever move, I'm hiring a damn rigger
[20:00:06] <archivist> hehe moving is not an option for me either
[20:01:42] <archivist> milling machine upstairs , had to be in bits to carry up stairs :)
[20:02:09] <ssi> haha yeah, that's no fun
[20:02:28] <ssi> at least I don't have an airplane in my garage anymore :P
[20:02:48] <archivist> erm lathe in the kitchen and a few machines in garage
[20:03:00] <ssi> you must be single :D
[20:03:16] <archivist> I may be
[20:04:57] <archivist> I knew a fella with push bikes in the house and motorbike engines in the lounge and... he had a nervous breakdown when he got a female
[20:06:50] <ssi> the trick is to keep them around to temper the chaos
[20:07:03] <ssi> but not MARRY them, so that if it becomes too much of a problem they can just leave :D
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[21:28:06] <bzzzz> grep -ie marr(iage|y) ./ => 1 result found ftw
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[22:09:02] <Gensor> Andy: You stated last night an "10A anti-surge NTC device". Can you elaborate?
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[22:13:19] <andypugh> Something like http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=5167849
[22:18:23] <ds3>
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[22:26:06] <Gensor> Andy: Did I also here you suggest an isolation transformer? I am assuming a bridgerectifier using 110V AC input will yield some where just above 100v DC, hence the isolation transformer would need to be 1:1.75 or so to hit 175v DC?
[22:32:15] <andypugh> Rectified 110VAC will be 155V
[22:34:33] <ssi> anyone know what NEMA frame the motor on the G0602 is?
[22:35:24] <elmo40> lathe?
[22:35:27] <ssi> ya
[22:36:02] <elmo40> how many HP is it?
[22:36:06] <ssi> 1
[22:36:12] <ssi> YL8024
[22:36:16] <ssi> http://cn-kailida.en.made-in-china.com/product/DboxvOhMAUVa/China-Single-Phase-Motor-YL8024-.html
[22:36:19] <ssi> best I could find P:
[22:36:59] <andypugh> Might not be NEMA at all
[22:37:09] <ssi> those jerks
[22:37:26] <andypugh> That one is an IEC frame size
[22:37:49] <elmo40> ssi: do you have a nema motor you want to hook up to it?
[22:37:57] <ssi> I'm shopping for motors
[22:38:09] <atom1> steppers?
[22:38:15] <ssi> no, spindle motor
[22:38:54] <ssi> thinking about doing something like a blackmax and vfd
[22:39:48] <elmo40> looks like a regular foot mounted motor.
[22:39:57] <ssi> yeah
[22:40:02] <elmo40> http://cdn0.grizzly.com/partslists/g0602_pl.pdf page 8
[22:40:40] <ssi> I guess I just need to pull it, measure it, find the closest frame
[22:40:44] <ssi> and make an adapter bracket if necessary
[22:41:00] <elmo40> cute little thing ;)
[22:41:03] <ds3> 5
[22:47:23] <andypugh> It's identical to mine
[22:47:59] <andypugh> I pulled my motor off and bolted a standard 3-phase motor on.
[22:48:20] <ssi> what motor did you put on?
[22:48:24] <andypugh> Nothing wrong with the original single phase, but not VFD-useful.
[22:48:41] <ssi> yeah, that's my goal also
[22:48:58] <ssi> in fact, I'd love to be able to get a full rpm range without changing belts
[22:49:02] <ssi> which may be unrealistic
[22:49:06] <ssi> but the blackmax makes it sound feasible
[22:50:08] <andypugh> It was slightly tight, but I _think_ it was a 90S
[22:50:34] <ssi> http://shrsjd.en.made-in-china.com/product/fqSQXtZMfoRN/China-Y2-Series-Three-Phase-Electric-Motor-Y2-90S-2-.html
[22:50:36] <andypugh> Let me measure...
[22:50:37] <ssi> something like that?
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[22:56:49] <andypugh> Looks like it is actually an 80mm frame
[22:57:24] <ssi> I see
[22:57:25] <andypugh> (The frame size is the distance from the base of the foot to the shaft centre)
[22:57:44] <ssi> what sort of speed range do you get out of it?
[22:58:51] <andypugh> I ditched all of the original drive belt arrangement, and run the 1500rpm motor at 120Hz (max)
[22:59:15] <ssi> is it 1500 @ 50hz?
[22:59:35] <andypugh> So i get a useful range of about 100 to 2000rpm in the single gear.
[22:59:42] <andypugh> Yes, 50Hz here
[22:59:57] <ssi> 120 ought to get you 3600
[23:00:00] <ssi> so running around a 2:1?
[23:00:06] <andypugh> Te be honest, that lathe is a sows ear and no matter how much you spend it won't become a silk purse.
[23:00:16] <andypugh> Yes, 2:1 gearing.
[23:00:20] <ssi> I'm not too unhappy with it so far
[23:01:15] <ssi> it's not a 1500lb machine, and I don't expect it to perform like one
[23:01:23] <ssi> I just want to be able to run cycles without changing belts
[23:01:25] <andypugh> Yours might be better fitted than mine. Somebody has definitely scraped in the saddle and tailstock, but not to both rails at the same time. They both rock...
[23:01:44] <andypugh> Yes, the belts are actually as pitiful as they look.
[23:02:30] <andypugh> You can see a bit of the conversion here: https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5403345560655766370
[23:02:59] <andypugh> Better: https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5437112986322828066
[23:03:37] <Gensor> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.diylive.net/wp-content/12vpowersupply.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.diylive.net/index.php/2005/12/19/ten-most-needed-circuits-for-the-diyer/&usg=__BUaOfqRTDmmb27rqblGZMv6Fb0E=&h=267&w=582&sz=5&hl=en&start=12&zoom=1&tbnid=TacV3ZzVy7EOHM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=211&ei=pending&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpower%2Bsupply%2Bdiagram%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1G1GGLQ_ENUS300%26bi
[23:03:37] <Gensor> w%3D1020%26bih%3D515%26tbm%3Disch0%2C386&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=645&vpy=268&dur=9172&hovh=152&hovw=332&tx=250&ty=131&page=2&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:12&biw=1020&bih=515
[23:04:13] <andypugh> ssi: Useful upgrade, adjustable saddle gibbs: https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5403345449585651218
[23:04:22] <Gensor> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.diy-electronic-projects.com/projects/1/ps25.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.diy-electronic-projects.com/p1-25W-Mosfet-audio-amplifier&usg=__xlbPsilq3_DtpDPPz5CrDuTwW1U=&h=210&w=475&sz=3&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=6-C7vKmSn0tnhM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=193&ei=UQmyTZbYHsTV0QGL2tmECQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpower%2Bsupply%2Bdiagram%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1G1GGLQ_ENUS300
[23:04:22] <Gensor> %26biw%3D1020%26bih%3D515%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=299&vpy=127&dur=2375&hovh=149&hovw=338&tx=247&ty=93&page=1&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0
[23:04:35] <ssi> interesting
[23:04:44] <andypugh> (If you go to the beginning there is a step-by-step of the process to make them)
[23:05:21] <Gensor> Andy: is either one of those diagrams close to what you are thinking?
[23:06:06] <andypugh> Gensor: They are a lot more complicated.
[23:07:41] <andypugh> I am thinking live terminal to fuse to NTC to rectifier. Neutral straight to rectifier. rectifier output to big cap, big cap to servo drive. And that's all of it.
[23:07:58] <ssi> andypugh: did it start life as a combo machine?
[23:08:18] <andypugh> Ideally you would have a bleed resistor so that it isn't fatally charged days later.
[23:08:34] <andypugh> Yes, it still is a combo machine.
[23:08:42] <ssi> well yeah, I realize it is now
[23:08:49] <ssi> was just asking if it was born that way, or if you made it so
[23:09:13] <andypugh> It was born that way.
[23:09:45] <andypugh> So it is a much upgraded (and still rubbish) mill bolted to a much-upgraded (and still rubbis) lathe. :-)
[23:10:20] <andypugh> Are you doing a full conversion?
[23:10:38] <ssi> yes, on both a little lathe and a little mill
[23:10:49] <ssi> but they were not born as siamese twins
[23:11:35] <andypugh> ssi: You might find this interesting: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mini_lathe/63621-mini_lathe_cross_slide_ballscrew-2.html
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[23:12:16] <andypugh> That's my cross-slide conversion, and it's doing fine despite the balsscrew looking rather undersized.
[23:13:06] <andypugh> You will find machining your cross-slide easier than I did, because mine was also the mill table...
[23:14:03] <JT-Shop> I can't wait to get my old Samson lathe home from the other shop so I can start converting it
[23:14:38] <ssi> I like yours better than mine
[23:14:45] <ssi> I may redo my cross-slide screw
[23:15:09] <ssi> this is mine, btw:
[23:15:09] <ssi> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/126178-g0602_conversion.html
[23:15:17] <JT-Shop> pretty slick andypugh
[23:16:42] <andypugh> I admit to being rather proud of it.
[23:16:43] <ssi> anyway, heading out to dinner. back later
[23:16:52] <ssi> you should be, well done
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[23:18:18] <andypugh> My approach only worls beacuse my steppers are a lot shorter than yours.
[23:19:19] <atom1> what size steppers?
[23:19:23] <atom1> nema32?
[23:20:05] <andypugh> Mine are NEMA 23 (double, not triple, in the X).
[23:20:33] <atom1> that looks bigger than mine but i don't think it is
[23:20:38] <atom1> longer
[23:20:39] <andypugh> The Z has a triple, and is a bit weak. The X, oddly, has only ever slipped when I wanted it to.
[23:22:18] <atom1> what's the torque on those?
[23:23:39] <andypugh> The Z is supposedly 3Nm, the X only claims 1.8 I think.
[23:24:29] <andypugh> But the little X is a "livelier" motor so actually seems more useful.
[23:24:45] <atom1> using mesa stuff with them?
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[23:25:32] <andypugh> There is a 7i43, but the drivers are Motion Control Products (black boxes, like all the others you see).
[23:25:45] <andypugh> I hadn't really heard of Mesa when I started.
[23:25:51] <atom1> no daughter board?
[23:25:55] <atom1> oh
[23:26:08] <andypugh> (The 7i43 is a later upgrade when I ran out of p-port pins)
[23:26:12] <atom1> i'm considering a 7i43 and maybe a daughter card
[23:26:21] <andypugh> No, I made my own breakout.
[23:26:31] <atom1> just optos?
[23:26:52] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5438923441932523602
[23:27:15] <andypugh> There is a ULN2008 to drive some relays, and no optos.
[23:27:27] <atom1> any input?
[23:27:55] <atom1> limit switches, spindle etc
[23:28:06] <andypugh> The box headers are wired to pin headers, and each wire has a crimped-on terminal so that is basically a plug-board.
[23:28:37] <andypugh> The limits and both spindle encoders are opto-interrupters, conditioned at the head end.
[23:29:09] <andypugh> My thinking was that at $80 the 7i43 is pretty much expendable.
[23:30:00] <Connor> MY GOD, that's alot of wires..
[23:30:05] <Connor> Why so much ?
[23:30:14] <elmo40> because :P
[23:30:41] <elmo40> read the labels... Xa+, Xa-... and so on.
[23:32:07] <andypugh> 4 axes x 4 wires to the motors. 4 axes x 3 wires to the drives, +24V and +5V to 4 drives... It all adds upp pretty quickly.
[23:32:35] <jdhNC> what are you using for the bulkhead connectors?
[23:33:07] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/stepper10.jpg
[23:33:21] <andypugh> jdhNC: I am using http://www.maplin.co.uk/components/connectors/multiway-connectors
[23:33:21] <atom1> that's what i put on my sherline recently but it looks shorter than yours
[23:33:39] <atom1> and i think it's considered a double stack
[23:33:45] <andypugh> atom1: Looks like my X motor.
[23:33:54] <atom1> from keelinginc
[23:34:10] <JT-Shop> I just got a couple of DC servos dropped in my lap they weigh about 50 lbs each
[23:34:25] <atom1> would they fit on my sherline?
[23:34:26] <atom1> :D
[23:34:30] * JT-Shop goes to play with the dog for a while
[23:34:32] <andypugh> jdhNC: However, if I was doing it again, for the stepper connectors I would use: http://www.maplin.co.uk/4-pole-speakon-connector-1389
[23:34:45] <JT-Shop> atom1: you can have them just come over and get them
[23:35:00] <andypugh> Speakons are really nice connectors, and have a huge current rating. Their quality feel belies the price.
[23:35:04] <atom1> andypugh i figured i'd use the same plugs atx supplies use
[23:35:11] <jdhNC> why those instad?
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[23:35:54] <atom1> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&site=US&WT.z_homepage_link=hp_go_button&KeyWords=wm23702-ND
[23:35:57] <atom1> like those
[23:37:37] <andypugh> I wanted bulkhead mounting. This is the controller box (rackmount PC on the left, drives in the middle, VFD on the right). https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5398215381172597314
[23:38:05] <atom1> they make pannel mount etc
[23:38:06] <andypugh> You can see I used Speakons for the spindle motors. :-)
[23:39:03] <atom1> i doubt digikey has those
[23:40:49] <atom1> what's the current rating on the driver for yours?
[23:41:34] <andypugh> http://www2.mouser.com:80/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=speakon
[23:42:01] <atom1> i like mouser better anyway
[23:42:27] <andypugh> It's been so long I can't remember. Nowhere near the rating of the connectors.
[23:42:38] <jdhNC> looks pricey
[23:43:02] <atom1> a buck a piece?
[23:43:05] <atom1> read on
[23:43:08] <atom1> pack of 10
[23:43:21] <atom1> or is that misleading?
[23:44:07] <jdhNC> oh, that would be fine.
[23:44:09] <andypugh> I would check.
[23:44:13] <Gensor> Andy: that 6amp thermister NTC... is that to power up the bridge rectifier and all other components slowly
[23:45:14] <jdhNC> the faston version is $3.06, says normal quantity 50
[23:45:51] <jdhNC> looks like the solder cup bulkhead one is $10/each
[23:45:55] <andypugh> Gensor: Yes, otherwise there is a big surge and the house lights go off (in my case, your wiring might be less sensitive)
[23:46:40] <Gensor> excellent... sometimes I wish I was quicker at learning these things
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