#emc | Logs for 2011-04-21

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[00:05:05] <landau> i use unipolar stepper...stepgen type is set to 9
[00:05:41] <landau> so i determined the scale of my machine. it is 360 but i have an error of 2mm! why?
[00:05:58] <landau> jog speed is not the cause! right?
[00:06:56] <landau> anyone?
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[00:08:18] <marcin_ose2> Hey People, the Xylotex controller quit on me, http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Torch_Table_Build_Prototype_1_Completion - moving on to Gecko G540. Would this (http://bit.ly/hpmq7S) (48V) work with the Xylotex motors (http://bit.ly/e8eNSr)?
[00:09:28] <landau> so i determined the scale of my machine. it is 360 but i have an error of 2mm! why?
[00:13:09] <marcin_ose2> andypugh: would the Gecko drive work with my existing Xylotex 24V motors? Do I need any fan in the Gecko enclosure?
[00:13:32] <jdhNC> marcin: which xylotex motors do you have?
[00:13:46] <jdhNC> and what happened to your xylo board?
[00:14:39] <andypugh> I haven't used Geckos myself (too expensive here in the UK). If the manual says you don't need them, then I suggest taking the opportunity to _not_ blow plasma-cutting filth all over them.
[00:15:47] <atom1> or filter the air
[00:16:21] <andypugh> The web page says "No heatsink needed below 40C ambient"
[00:17:40] <jdhNC> you can buy a G540 for $249
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[00:17:55] <jdhNC> and use your existing PS
[00:18:30] <atom1> i looked at it but i can't use m 50v supply with it
[00:18:38] <atom1> my*
[00:19:21] <andypugh> marcin_ose2: It looks like you don't need a fan, but it's a good idea: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=99889&d=1265999192
[00:22:20] <marcin_ose2> jdnNC - http://www.xylotex.com/StepperMotor.htm
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[00:25:24] <jdhNC> the xylotex board is limited to 30V, it's not a motor rating.
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[00:26:20] <andypugh> I wondered if I missed that question.
[00:26:41] <jdhNC> what question?
[00:26:50] <atom1> was there a question?
[00:26:50] <andypugh> What voltage the motors wanted.
[00:26:51] <marcin_ose2> Do I need to check with Xylotex for the motor rating of http://www.xylotex.com/StepperMotor.htm if I use that motor with the Gecko drive?
[00:27:08] <marcin_ose2> Does that motor work as is with Gecko drive?
[00:27:10] <andypugh> No, the steppers are happy up to hundreds of volts
[00:27:28] <atom1> link him that stepper voltage page
[00:27:31] <jdhNC> the motors should be fine, they will just be faster with the gecko
[00:27:31] <atom1> i don't have it
[00:27:45] <atom1> you can calculate a voltage they are happy with
[00:27:51] <jdhNC> but, I don't see a lot of value in the g540 package you linked to
[00:28:11] <andypugh> The driver limits the current, so there is no danger in using a higher voltage.
[00:28:34] <marcin_ose2> jdhNC: Why not a lot of value? Because I have the power supply already?
[00:28:36] <atom1> there's an optimum voltage though
[00:28:42] <jdhNC> you could use your current power supply and a bare G540
[00:28:58] <andypugh> The advantage of a higher voltage is that the drive can push the rated current at higher step rates (because the back-EMF of stepper motors rises very quickly indeed)
[00:29:49] <marcin_ose2> I've got gear rack drive - I don't think I need the speed.
[00:30:08] <marcin_ose2> Higher voltage would mean less stress on the electronics, right?
[00:30:15] <jdhNC> the motor specs are at: http://www.xylotex.com/PacSciDS.pdf
[00:30:16] <andypugh> That ebay package is insane.
[00:30:39] <andypugh> £200 for a tin box full of not-drive?
[00:31:02] <atom1> what ebay package?
[00:31:47] <atom1> i got similar steppers ~$10 cheaper from kelinginc
[00:31:51] <andypugh> That link: http://bit.ly/hpmq7S
[00:32:18] <atom1> oh wow
[00:32:27] <andypugh> I looked at keling, for the same torque the price was comparable. Anyway, he already has the motors and the power supply.
[00:32:30] * atom1 orders all 6
[00:33:29] <jdhNC> if you have the normal xylotex PS, you can tweak it up a few volts
[00:33:31] <andypugh> To be fair, if I was punching out boxes, mounting drives and selling them, I would want to charge that.
[00:33:41] <jdhNC> me too
[00:33:42] <atom1> yes
[00:33:47] <atom1> the time adds up quickly
[00:33:51] <jdhNC> but if I was buying them, I woudln't want to pay for it.
[00:33:56] <atom1> i found that out with my programmers
[00:34:13] <atom1> nobody want's to pay for extras
[00:35:24] <jdhNC> keling sells g540's for $245
[00:36:08] <atom1> but i built my own supply so i need higher rated drivers
[00:37:45] <atom1> probotix has a couple decent supplies
[00:38:15] <atom1> for smaller systems that is
[00:38:21] <andypugh> I built my own voltage-doubling supply. Then I looked at the bit of proto-board with 1000uF and 700V on it, turned it off, let it discharge and put it away to forget about. I lost my nerve.
[00:38:53] <atom1> heh
[00:39:06] <atom1> mine is linear
[00:39:25] <atom1> and not 700v
[00:39:52] <marcin_ose2> Ok, if I have the Xylotex box - I just then need 4 DB9 connectors to wire into the Gecko. Do I get those at a local Radio Shack or something?
[00:40:05] <andypugh> This was a rectifier and voltage-double circuit with 2 caps. It occurred to me that it could kill me, not just hurt a lot like the normal stuff I play with.
[00:40:25] <andypugh> marcin_ose2: Yes, basically.
[00:40:32] <jdhNC> they come with DB9's
[00:40:42] <andypugh> Cheap ones tend to be rated 5A, expensive ones 7A.
[00:40:59] <andypugh> OK, in that case, use the ones they supply.
[00:41:06] <marcin_ose2> They come with the female on the driver, and 4 extra ones?
[00:41:20] <andypugh> I was astonished when I found the current and voltage rating of DB9
[00:42:03] <andypugh> Anyway, ludicrously late (again) here. Time to log.
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[00:42:36] <marcin_ose2> Ah, they come with male DB9s, that I wire into my steppers.
[00:44:25] <atom1> how much current will a DB9 take before it melts?
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[00:49:34] <marcin_ose2> exit
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[01:14:27] <tom3p> vismach shutll rack vid http://videobin.org/+4br/4of.html
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[01:22:43] <Connor2> Can someone explain a little better G54 and G92 etc etc ?
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[01:23:18] <Connor_CNC> I got this Z-touch off plate working.. but, it uses G92 which I normally don't use.. I stick to G54
[01:26:50] <tom3p> crude simplification: g92 is a way to set values, g54 is a place that holds values http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_coordinates.html
[01:27:24] <Connor_CNC> Okay, So, my old method. Home all the Axis.. Jog the bit down to the top of the work.. and touch off.
[01:28:16] <Connor_CNC> With the new touch probe stuff.. I was getting errors because it was saying that the command would exceed the Z axis limit.
[01:28:27] <Connor_CNC> My Z has a 4.5" of travel.
[01:28:34] <Connor_CNC> I home it at the very top.
[01:28:55] <Connor_CNC> So, I set the MDI command for -4.5"
[01:29:30] <Tom_L> what do you use for a probe?
[01:30:08] <Connor_CNC> Right now, just basic touching off... In a bit, I want to use it to map out the cutting area for my PCB's so I can see how out of level I am.
[01:30:31] <Connor_CNC> which will be a different thing all together.
[01:31:24] <Tom_L> what type of sensor are you using?
[01:31:46] <Connor_CNC> Right now, just a V-bit and a blank copper plate.
[01:31:57] <Connor_CNC> wired up to a input in on parport.
[01:32:04] <Connor_CNC> input pin
[01:32:15] <Tom_L> so just a switch of sorts
[01:32:21] <Connor_CNC> yea
[01:33:01] <Tom_L> is there any deflection in the plate when it touches or does z stop quickly?
[01:33:07] <tom3p> do you have home the machine after power on? ( do you have home switches)
[01:33:17] <Tom_L> i'm not used to using that method
[01:34:02] <Connor_CNC> Tom_L Right now, possibly.. I need to cut the plate down.. but, probing moves the Z very small amount and it stops quickly.. no damage to the pcb..
[01:34:32] <Tom_L> so you just jog close and then it single steps down until it makes contact
[01:34:33] <Connor_CNC> tom3p: I have Home / Limit Switches on X and Y now.. I home Z manually at the top
[01:35:20] <Connor_CNC> I will be adding home / limit switches to it as well (I know you really don't need a limit on the lower side, but since I plan on using this as a 3D printer... I will, but that's later)
[01:36:10] <tom3p> when you get the Z home switche, and home the z once, emc will remember where the "-45" is, and soon the problem will be history, for all startups after that
[01:36:12] <Connor_CNC> So, is G92 Z0 the same as me hitting the Touch Off button in the GUI ?
[01:40:19] <tom3p> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_axis.html#cap:Touch-Off the gui is >like< g92 z0 with the added info about WHICH datum to store it in (G5x)
[01:41:02] <tom3p> sorry being kicked outta library now, bye
[01:41:36] <Connor_CNC> Ah. okay. so it stores the data in P1 (cause I never change it)
[01:43:31] <tom3p> JT-Shop, i still get some errors and need to wire up the pneumatics fro chuck open & clean mating faces... but pretty good now http://videobin.org/+4br/4of.html
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[01:48:28] <Tom_L> what is touchoff mainly used for? fixture offset?
[01:48:37] <Tom_L> what about tool length offsets etc?
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[05:54:34] <HuckMeat1> Anyone know how to configure Mesa 7i43 inputs to pulldown instead of pullups?
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[06:12:04] <archivist> HuckMeat1, do the docs say thats even possible
[06:15:17] <HuckMeat1> Yeah, the 7i43 manual says that once the FPGA is loaded, they can be configured either way, but it seems that pullup is what the board is doing... I have a crappy opto board that isn't driving enough current to get past the pullups, but if I measure the opto board unconnected all works, and if I trigger the inputs with gnd, all works.
[06:16:07] <HuckMeat1> Junt not sure if it's something I can do in the .hal, or if I need to reconfigure the GPIO and build a new FPGA.
[06:18:59] <archivist> there is little reason to think pulling down will give you more current than pulling up to drive the opto
[06:19:40] <archivist> are you driving the opto correctly
[06:20:58] <archivist> and which direction are you talking about
[06:24:55] <HuckMeat1> Input. It's a stupid elexol 8 input opto board. I'm trying to get this beast running until a mesa 7i64 gets shipped, but they seem to have a problem manufacturing them, or even telling me when it will ship. Anyway, with nothing connected to the output of the opto board, using a scope, I get a 5V signal when I hit the input of the board with 24V, and 0V when I remove the 24V input. However, when I connect the opto board to the 7i4
[06:25:21] <HuckMeat1> 24V input. I suspect it's using 3.3V logic thresholds, so 2.2V looks like a logic true.
[06:25:41] <HuckMeat1> If I ground the pin directly, (opto and all) the halmeter shows false/true as expected.
[06:26:53] <HuckMeat1> I need another guiness, but the whole works here is to cobble up some limits and an estop for now. 24V normally closed limits and estop, feeding opto to TTL to 7i43
[06:27:24] <archivist> look at the device on the opto board, change its pull up and or its common pull up rail
[06:29:11] <HuckMeat1> TTL side?
[06:29:33] <archivist> and are they open collector
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[06:30:55] <archivist> it may be that your led side needs more current to force the rx side into saturation
[06:31:28] <HuckMeat1> Lemme go dig. Good ideas.
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[06:58:20] <HuckMeat1> Dang... a 1k pulldown makes everything work, but it's taking 23ma of current to indicate that state, which suggests a) I'm drawing a lot more than I should. b) perhaps the pin is being driven.
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[10:35:00] <Paragon39> Opto-couplers revisited... Is it recommended to have resistors on the paraport / 7i43 of the optocoupler when used for input? I understand one should place say 330R when optocoupler is connected to an output pin of paraport / 7i43 to limit current drawn by the opto's LED from paraport pin?
[10:37:00] <Paragon39> I am guessing there is not a requirement for the resistor due to power being sourced from the paraport itself. Is this correct?
[10:37:00] <archivist> answer depends ..... sinking or sourcing current and which is feeding which
[10:39:05] <archivist> for an input to the par port it only has to see a level, the output feeding it sets requirements
[10:41:14] <Paragon39> Ok. Here is what I am trying to acheive... I have a number of inputs say from a shaft encoder or greyscale encoder (toolchanger) that I want to sense. These are connected to the led side of the opto's the paraport is connected to the transistor side to receive signals.
[10:42:14] <Paragon39> I am guessing I could negate the resistors from the circuit in the above scenario?
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[10:43:36] <archivist> the transistor side needs pullups
[10:44:17] <Paragon39> Oh to bring it to five volts right?
[10:45:30] <archivist> parport has that 5v iirc for connecting to your pullups
[10:48:24] <Paragon39> Thanks archivist. I need to read up a little more to familiarize myself.
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[11:29:05] <jthornton> Paragon39: this is a good example for pullup/pulldowns http://roguescience.org/wordpress/?page_id=11
[11:31:35] <Paragon39> jthornton: Rhanks for the link. :-)
[11:31:59] <Paragon39> Thanks for the link. :-)
[11:32:54] <jthornton> it never made any sense to me till I found that playing with my Ardunio a while back
[11:33:14] <Jymmm> jthornton: what didn't make sense?
[11:33:25] <jthornton> Jymmm
[11:33:33] <Jymmm> jthornton:
[11:33:46] <jthornton> pullup and pulldown
[11:33:55] <Jymmm> oh, you mean in general?
[11:34:00] <jthornton> yea
[11:34:17] <Paragon39> Oh, I see...The pull-up is necessary due to the pin floating.
[11:34:27] <jthornton> I knew what a pullup was and they made my arms hurt
[11:34:29] <jthornton> yea
[11:34:40] <Paragon39> lol
[11:34:55] <Jymmm> (too many naps)
[11:35:09] <jthornton> not enough naps
[11:36:03] <Jymmm> not enough pullups to make your atms stop hurting =)
[11:36:21] <Jymmm> Either less naps or start jugging kegs
[11:36:23] <jthornton> but then they tend to float about
[11:37:02] <Paragon39> So do I take the +5v from a spare output pin?
[11:39:38] <archivist> not spare but the correct 5v pin
[11:41:20] <archivist> I dont see one on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_port
[11:42:37] <Paragon39> archivist: I was reading on another site that mentioned to set one of the unused output pin to high and use this for +5v source?
[11:43:27] <Jymmm> I have a rack mount server case that I would like to CLEANLY cut in half, but don't have a mill, any suggestions?
[11:44:06] <Paragon39> Jymmm: how many U?
[11:44:11] <Jymmm> 2U
[11:44:12] <jthornton> I think a mill would mangle the sheetmetal
[11:44:22] <Paragon39> Bandsaw?
[11:44:40] <jthornton> jigsaw, with tape under to protect the finish
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[11:44:51] <jthornton> very fine tooth blade
[11:45:12] <Jymmm> It's 2U full depth, and I want to make it half depth. I have an angle grinder, and this is heavy gauge, not that cheap stuff
[11:45:36] <jthornton> grinder works too just get the thin blades
[11:45:40] <Jymmm> I do have cutting and grinding blades
[11:46:11] <Paragon39> Probably the best option... Then clean up the edges.
[11:46:11] <jthornton> use a flap disk to clean up the burrs when your done cutting it
[11:46:39] <Jymmm> But how to cut straight using a grinder?
[11:47:35] <jthornton> scribe a line first then keep your eyes open and follow the line
[11:47:38] <Paragon39> Clamp a straight piece of metal across as a guide maybe?
[11:48:02] <Jymmm> clamping a guide would work =)
[11:48:23] <Jymmm> good idea
[11:48:33] <Paragon39> :-)
[11:49:08] <Jymmm> It's just too deep for home use, going to make it a 4U, maybe 6Uinstead
[11:50:40] <Jymmm> It's really an 8 removable bay SATA with backplane and some nice cooling and room for a single mobo.
[11:51:09] <Jymmm> thin dvdrw, floppy and room for a 9th 3.5" hdd
[11:51:58] <Paragon39> I have a couple of the old Sun Sparc 5's I think they are 2U I am thinking of using them for a couple of project as they are nice looking enclosures. http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://sun.hasenbraten.de/~frank/computers/Sun5.jpg&imgrefurl=http://sun.hasenbraten.de/~frank/computers/sun.html&h=480&w=640&sz=62&tbnid=N-_KJ3WOCjuDfM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsun%2Bsparc%2B5%2Bpic
[11:52:00] <Paragon39> %26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=sun+sparc+5+pic&hl=en&usg=__WTrcKwC-mdmpPtA7YM7T7GPbSno=&sa=X&ei=QBqwTeWNKpGwhQe416GgBw&ved=0CB4Q9QEwAA
[11:52:17] <Paragon39> jeez sorry about that... looong link!!
[11:52:25] <Jymmm> try again
[11:52:35] <Paragon39> http://sun.hasenbraten.de/~frank/computers/sun.html
[11:53:07] <Jymmm> oh, pizza boxes
[11:53:40] <Paragon39> Yes... I've always like the aesthetics of them. :-)
[11:54:15] <Jymmm> Paragon39: Those are so tight inside that there really isn't much space for anything. Nor is there really any mounting options for an ATX system
[11:54:42] <Jymmm> Paragon39: I already looked a ways back =)
[11:55:08] <Jymmm> Internally you could make it 1U, but that's about it
[11:55:49] <Paragon39> They are but I would use them for say homemade pcbs or a capacitor array for my induction heater ... something along those lines.
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[11:56:16] <Jymmm> oh ok, I thought another pc system
[11:56:46] <Paragon39> Oh no, as you say be a bit of a squeeze.
[11:57:13] <Paragon39> I just hate throwing stuff out... Ask the misses ;-)
[11:58:18] <Jymmm> Paragon39: Well, I might have kept this 2U full depth and tossed in two atom mobos, ut none of them have virtualization
[11:58:26] <Jymmm> s/ut/but/
[11:58:58] <Paragon39> Right that limits there usefullness :-(
[11:59:10] <Jymmm> The backplane is divided in half (top4 + bottom4)
[11:59:31] <Paragon39> Have you seen this? Look very interesting http://www.cnczone.com/forums/pcb_milling/82628-cheap_simple_height-probing.html http://phk.freebsd.dk/CncPcb/
[11:59:36] <Jymmm> then I could of had two redundant systems in a single enclosure
[12:00:32] <Paragon39> But if the power fails to the enclosure you have lost both servers...
[12:00:52] <Jymmm> I was going to use dual PS
[12:01:14] <Paragon39> Just about to mention... unless dual power supply ;-)
[12:02:29] <Jymmm> Paragon39: If the bastards would hurr up and release this in the US, I'd probably get it if it lived up to it's hype... http://www.promise.com/storage/raid_series.aspx?region=en-global&m=19&rsn1=3&rsn3=43
[12:03:51] <Paragon39> looks like a feature rich bit of kit.
[12:04:02] <Jymmm> Paragon39: It'll act as a PXE server for VM's as well.
[12:04:18] <Jymmm> XFS
[12:04:42] <jthornton> how can I have a video on my web page without using something like putube?
[12:04:58] <Jymmm> jthornton: <object>
[12:05:09] <jthornton> thanks
[12:05:17] <Paragon39> That a nice feature to have..
[12:07:01] <Paragon39> OK I have done sweet FA today I better get back to the opto's and eagle cad... or just go and sit in the garden... It glorious here today :-)
[12:07:14] <Jymmm> jthornton: If you dont have an embedded player (flash), it'll play like this when clicked: http://v3.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=2ldxhsi
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[12:17:15] <Jymmm> jthornton: If you dont care about audio, there is always AVI2GIF
[12:17:48] <Paragon39> With regards to the pullup resistor do I only need one for all outputs or do I require one for each input?
[12:18:14] <Paragon39> That didn't make sense...
[12:18:24] <Jymmm> one each
[12:19:03] <Paragon39> Jymmm: Thanks
[12:19:40] <Jymmm> Paragon39: You wouldn't want the the signal of one pin to effect the signal on another pin.
[12:21:40] <Paragon39> Duh ;-)
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[12:49:24] <Paragon39> Is it a question of choice weather to go for pull-up or pull-down?
[12:49:46] <jdhNC> generally.
[12:50:40] <jdhNC> and sinking vs. sourcing, and if switches/sensors are normally open or normally closed
[12:50:42] <Paragon39> Oh so there is no performance or issues between the two topolgies?
[12:51:59] <jdhNC> not that I know of
[12:52:56] <jdhNC> I like pull-ups and sinking
[12:53:33] <Paragon39> Mmm so say one had an encoder input to an opto and also had limit switches to opto's. What topology would be used for each type of input? either?
[12:53:34] <anonimasu> normally closed is better in general because if your sensor is damaged you can diagnose that easier
[12:54:03] <mrsunshine> hmm, i need a horizontal mill .... =)
[12:54:15] <mrsunshine> would not be bad at all to have i just figured out
[12:54:20] <mrsunshine> if you got X Y Z on it
[12:54:22] <jdhNC> I've only seen pics of horizontal mills, and I have yet to see what I could do with one
[12:55:00] <anonimasu> jdhNC: pretty much anything
[12:55:14] <mrsunshine> jdhNC, well im thinking of building a lathe, i want 3 holes perfectly "perpendicular" (is that the right word?) to eachother
[12:55:34] <mrsunshine> hard to put a lathe bed of like 60cm in an mill of any size i can get to :/
[12:56:01] <mrsunshine> and i think, just think a horizontal mill would be able to help me here =)
[12:56:36] <mrsunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmHk_wx9xrI as it got extra support etc also, so if i put a boring bar in there voila, i can move the boring head without moving the axles to get to the holes in the other end :P
[12:58:33] <mrsunshine> or maybe a line boring machine
[12:59:06] <archivist> a horizontal mill can really remove material
[12:59:24] <mrsunshine> looks very stirdy compared to a vertical
[12:59:43] <anonimasu> yeah, and chip cleareance is better
[13:00:01] <archivist> some had cu metre specs for removal
[13:00:35] <archivist> I have one here Im not sure what to do with yet
[13:03:30] <Valen> there would be upsides to an "upside down" mill
[13:03:39] <Valen> all the chips would want to fall out of the pockets
[13:04:00] <mrsunshine> Valen, heh =)
[13:04:07] <Valen> though recutting probably wouldn't change too much, it probably all happens much faster than gravity has anything to do with
[13:05:47] <mrsunshine> hmm, the gingery mills are horizontal ? :)
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[13:07:30] <archivist> yes gingery is, like http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010201.JPG
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[13:31:44] <skunkworks_> ?
[13:32:03] <skunkworks_> huh - I seem to have a spotty connection
[13:33:10] <JT-Shop> skunkworks_: did you use rings on your piston for your Stirlinge?
[13:33:55] <skunkworks_> yes
[13:34:13] <skunkworks_> I would love to find a source for carbon piston rings
[13:35:03] <JT-Shop> like carbon-fibre?
[13:35:30] <anonimasu> grapite?
[13:35:43] <skunkworks_> graphite
[13:36:00] <skunkworks_> From what I have seen - they are used in some air compressors...
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[13:36:15] <anonimasu> well, you can just buy graphite and turn it if you like
[13:36:16] <anonimasu> bars
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[13:36:50] <mrsunshine> gah i want to build stuff... but its so much work :P
[13:36:53] <skunkworks_> yah - but you would think I could find a source of already made ones.. but all the companies that I have found want to make them for me.
[13:37:11] <mrsunshine> and getting the stuff needed to build is a pita ... like bearing slides etc
[13:37:11] <Valen> I know somebody who installed them into 747 engines
[13:37:17] <Valen> (or some large aircraft)
[13:37:23] <anonimasu> mrsunshine: it's a matter of money
[13:37:30] <Valen> they broke about half of them, at $130 a pop
[13:37:30] <anonimasu> mrsunshine: everything exists but it's not cheap
[13:37:47] <skunkworks_> Valen: yeck
[13:37:57] <mrsunshine> http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/DX_Type-1629-c <-- has anyone used this kind of bearings for linear motion ?
[13:38:08] <Valen> carbon isn't noted for its flexibility
[13:38:12] <mrsunshine> anonimasu, yes, but its a pita to get it to my little town in sweden :P
[13:38:27] <JT-Shop> http://www.stmaryscarbon.com/mechanical.html
[13:38:28] <anonimasu> my town in north sweden is smaller then yours
[13:38:30] <anonimasu> :)
[13:38:38] <Valen> i live in australia
[13:38:40] <Valen> i win
[13:38:42] <mrsunshine> anonimasu, how many "habitants" ? :P
[13:38:42] <Valen> ;-P
[13:39:25] <anonimasu> about 8000
[13:39:35] <anonimasu> 5000 in the actual town
[13:40:01] <mrsunshine> dont know how many here realy :P
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[13:40:44] <mrsunshine> 10356 in while of malungs kommun :P
[13:41:00] <anonimasu> I know :)
[13:41:04] <mrsunshine> anonimasu, vart bor du ? :P
[13:41:05] <mrsunshine> malung? :P
[13:41:13] <anonimasu> haha, that's like very south
[13:41:16] <anonimasu> near luleŚ
[13:41:17] <mrsunshine> hah :P
[13:41:24] <mrsunshine> 5k in town :P
[13:41:44] <anonimasu> it's a village... not town :D
[13:42:18] <Paragon39> Guys I have just knocked up an eagle circuit for the opto board I was asking questions about earlier could you take a ganders and confirm if it looks OK please? Heres the link https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B53oJoJXbpkCYTEwOWY2ZmItNzRmOS00MjM4LWExMDAtOGM0OTU4MjgyZTZm&hl=en
[13:42:35] * mrsunshine atleast got two 35mm hydraulic piston rods today, will make a fine "bed" for my little lathe =)
[13:42:51] <skunkworks_> JT-Shop: pretty sure I emailed them
[13:43:41] <archivist> mrsunshine, support all the way along? /me hopes
[13:43:47] <Paragon39> The left side is Paraport side inputs. The top left pin is +5v and below that gnd.
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[13:44:13] <mrsunshine> archivist, ye will have supports
[13:44:33] <mrsunshine> tho i havent realy figured out how to attach the support yet :P
[13:44:55] <mrsunshine> i guess it might be drillable so =)
[13:45:20] <JT-Shop> skunkworks_: are they made in 3 pieces like the photo shows?
[13:45:28] <archivist> mrsunshine, triangular supports ive seen
[13:45:44] <mrsunshine> archivist, what do you mean ? :)
[13:46:39] <mrsunshine> i was almost thinking of incorperating supports in the bed, so when drilling the holes for the axle mounts i just drill the whole way, giving a bed for the axle to rest in
[13:46:57] <mrsunshine> but its a long boring with 50cm of total length
[13:47:44] <archivist> mrsunshine, http://www.lm76.com/ middle of top right pic
[13:48:36] <mrsunshine> archivist, ye that is about what it will be that i was thinking
[13:48:45] <mrsunshine> but incorperated in the casted bed of it =)
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[13:51:52] <mrsunshine> tho it requires me to have slit bearings, shouldnt be a problem to slit those im thinking of buing but =)
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[13:53:53] <mrsunshine> i wonder what the Z axis movement on the mill on my old job is
[13:54:04] <mrsunshine> im guessing not 50cm but :P
[13:54:24] <mrsunshine> ofc, i know a guy that works at a cnc workshop or whatever i should call it also, and they have huge cnc mills :P
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[14:25:45] <tom3p> wow St Marys Carbon, i thought they were bought out by Le Carbon Lorraine Years ago. They got a great hunting lodge there, and a personal trout pond for visitors.
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[15:26:35] <Paragon39> Sorry to ask again but not sure if this was seen? I have just knocked up an eagle circuit for the opto board I was asking questions about earlier could you take a ganders and confirm if it looks OK please? Heres the link https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B53oJoJXbpkCYTEwOWY2ZmItNzRmOS00MjM4LWExMDAtOGM0OTU4MjgyZTZm&hl=en
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[15:47:22] <atom1> Paragon39 if the pullups are going to the right pins it looks ok.
[15:47:33] <atom1> otherwise every other one is backwards
[15:49:07] <atom1> the opto likely has an led in it which it polarized
[15:49:37] <atom1> probably the same with the output drive circuit
[15:50:36] <Paragon39> The resistors are connected to the collector of the ILD74. (Should have mentioned that the diagram is actualy using 8 ild74 dual optos althouth it shows 4pin dips.) http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/vishay/83640.pdf
[15:50:56] <atom1> i kinda figured they were dual
[15:52:49] <Paragon39> The left hand side is the paraport (transitor side of opto) the right is the input (led side). The top left hand pin is +5v and the one below is GND. Thought I mention that for clarity sakes. :-)
[15:53:19] <atom1> are you driving them with the parport?
[15:53:38] <atom1> if so they're backwards i thing (didn't open the data sheet)
[15:54:02] <Paragon39> +5v supply you mean?
[15:54:13] <atom1> if you're driving it with the parport, the port needs to drive the led
[15:54:22] <atom1> if it's input to the parport it's ok
[15:54:54] <atom1> the led turns on the photo transistor
[15:55:23] <Paragon39> Oh, It's for input only... ie shaft spindle encoder, emergency stop, greyscale tool changer and Datum and limit switches.
[15:55:39] <atom1> mkay
[15:56:18] <Paragon39> So it looks sound for this application? Just wanted to check before I commit to mill the board.
[15:56:34] <atom1> i think the parport only has 8 data lines
[15:56:45] <atom1> and only 5 are bidirectional
[15:56:47] <atom1> iirc
[15:56:54] <atom1> i could stand corrected
[15:57:07] <Paragon39> Your right it does but I will eventually hook up to the messa 7i43 card
[15:57:22] <atom1> go for it then
[15:57:38] <Paragon39> Cool thanks for the confirmation :-)
[15:57:51] <atom1> so now if it's wrong, it's all my fault
[15:57:54] <atom1> :)
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[15:59:21] <Paragon39> I don't know were you live ;-)
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[16:00:20] <atom1> swamp east missouri, and my name is JT_shop
[16:00:35] <Paragon39> lol
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[16:33:12] <IchGuckLive> anonimasu: Trying hard to get the servo motor moving
[16:39:12] <anonimasu> IchGuckLive: where did you go?
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[18:27:26] <JT-Shop> :) tapping has become a spectator sport for me now
[18:29:50] <cradek> tapping on the mill now goes like this: tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap SNAP grindgrindgrind
[18:30:44] <cradek> I never notice they're getting dull, or that there's junk in the hole
[18:32:44] <anonimasu> spindle load measurement?
[18:33:31] <cradek> maybe, but the biggest hole I ever tap is 1/4, so the load is pretty small
[18:33:48] <cradek> I bet you're right that you could detect "getting dull now" with some experience
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[18:35:51] <JT-Shop> I use a loop to look at the tap edge before use
[18:35:58] <JT-Shop> or hand tap with it
[18:36:41] * skunkworks still hasn't tried rigid tapping on anyting other that test material
[18:36:54] <skunkworks> anything other than
[18:37:25] <JT-Shop> I've also come to trust OSG's electrolube coated taps
[18:37:50] <archivist> measure spindle load using the error term
[18:38:41] <archivist> needs to set a flag and not stop till before the next cycle
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[18:39:41] <archivist> thats probably needed for general use not just tapping
[18:41:11] <ssi> i'm trying to get spindle synchronized motion working for threading on my lathe
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[18:42:37] <archivist> ssi not too hard
[18:43:08] <ssi> yeah, just trying to make sense of what hal is seeing for position and vel-fb
[18:43:19] <ssi> it's a homebuilt encoder and I'm using a 7i43
[18:43:33] <ssi> as far as I can tell, I can't see the raw a/b/z signals this way
[18:44:01] <ssi> they scope out ok, although when loaded by the fpga the low value seems a bit high
[18:45:08] <cradek> ssi: does it not count correctly?
[18:45:34] <ssi> it counts, and the velocity is correctly positive or negative depending on which way the spindle's turning
[18:46:00] <ssi> but I'm not sure what units velocity is supposed to report in, so I don't know if it's scaled correctly
[18:46:39] <Eik0> anonimasu: :*
[18:47:04] <ssi> I think I need to rotate it by hand and watch position per rev and make sure they line up
[18:47:07] <cradek> scale the position so 1.0 is one rev, and you'll get velocity scaled correctly automatically
[18:47:21] <ssi> lemme go try that, brb
[18:47:26] <cradek> well the scale is the number of counts per rev. you ought to know this number, having made the wheel!
[18:47:56] <cradek> (as an aside, also be aware that threading is based on position, not velocity.)
[18:52:40] <ssi> I'm not sure though if it's edges per rev, or slots per rev, or what
[18:52:48] <ssi> btw it looks like 1.5 position units per rev at the moment
[18:52:55] <cradek> edges
[18:52:55] <ssi> which makes zero sense to me
[18:53:02] <ssi> should be 36 edges I believe
[18:53:08] <ssi> there's an edge every 10 degrees
[18:53:14] <ssi> and my scale is set to 36
[18:53:17] <cradek> so you have 18 slots?
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[18:53:31] <ssi> correct
[18:53:41] <cradek> 18 slots gives 72 edges
[18:53:56] <ssi> hm
[18:53:59] <ssi> maybe I can't math
[18:54:00] <cradek> sounds like it is not counting correctly at all then
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[18:54:15] <ssi> testing interrupted by UPS man, I'll look at it again here in a moment
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[18:58:10] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,10/id,9070/limit,6/limitstart,12/lang,english/#9237
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[19:03:19] <bzzzz> um
[19:04:02] <bzzzz> anyone know good accel values for my 200 steps/rev motors? how does 833rpm/s**2 sound?
[19:04:18] <JT-Shop> depends on your voltage and mass
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[19:04:44] <bzzzz> crap
[19:04:55] <bzzzz> i can't find the manual for this old-assed cnc
[19:05:22] <JT-Shop> or start low and work your way up
[19:05:25] <bzzzz> i picked 833 b/c it stopped growling at that accel
[19:05:41] <bzzzz> what numbers do you use, if you don't mind my asking?
[19:09:10] <cradek> bzzzz: in emc, accelerations are in distance units per second^2, not rpm
[19:09:35] <cradek> (rotations/minute/second/second is a crazy unit)
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[19:12:38] <mrsunshine> hmm, how to design a lathe bed or column to be strong both in flexing left right, in out and in twisting ...
[19:12:54] <mrsunshine> flexing can be fixed easily with big triangles, tho the twisting ?
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[19:19:13] <ssi> cradek: ok so you were right... 72 scale gives me what I expect
[19:19:18] <ssi> one position per rev
[19:19:53] <archivist> mrsunshine, box section
[19:19:57] <ssi> so the encoder is working correctly, but spindle-at-speed is not
[19:21:49] <archivist> mrsunshine, also internal webbing
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[19:28:44] <bzzzz> cradek: i agree. buti'm not fixed on linear distance per rev yet, haven't picked out my ball screws
[19:29:38] <cradek> I see, you just mean motor limitations
[19:29:39] <bzzzz> cradek: i'm rpetty much trying to figure out why the damn motor growls so loud when i command low speeds
[19:29:50] <cradek> do you have microstepping?
[19:30:40] <cradek> steppers do make noise at low speeds, but microstepping can help somewhat
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[19:44:11] <ssi> ok so, my spindle-vel-fb is super jumpy, and the near is never reporting true... do I need to do an LPF on spindle vel or something?
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[20:10:35] <Guest326> /join #cam
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[20:11:43] <ssi> where can I find docs on how the "near" component works?
[20:11:58] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/
[20:12:10] <JT-Shop> scroll down to real time components
[20:12:19] <JT-Shop> hows that for fast?
[20:12:26] <ssi> hah thx
[20:12:59] <ssi> I'm thinking I might be scaling it backwards
[20:13:28] <ssi> although this makes it seem like there isn't really a backwards
[20:15:10] <ssi> hrm or maybe there is
[20:15:28] <ssi> in1 is commanded speed in rps, and it's set to 10
[20:15:35] <ssi> in2 is my actual speed and it's bouncing from 8 to 13
[20:15:59] <ssi> if scale is set to .5, then it's looking for 10/.5 <= [8-13] <= 10*.5
[20:16:11] <ssi> which'd be 20 <= x <= 5, which'll be always false
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[20:23:22] <ssi> SWEET it works
[20:23:25] <ssi> thanks for the help guys :D
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[21:29:00] <jepler> 14 gage wire conducting 450VDC 10kA, even as a non-repetitive pulse?? http://aonomus.wordpress.com/2011/04/18/digital-oscilloscopes-capacitor-banks-and-loud-bangs-oh-my/
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[21:40:04] <MOGLI> jepler can you tell me about pluto encoders??
[21:40:09] <archivist> I would have use thicker wire, more amps
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[21:51:22] <JT-Shop> more power!
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[23:12:44] <andypugh> So, I fitted my boring head into my mini-mill (which is worth more than the mini mill) all ready to to bore the ballnut housing for the Y of my not-mini-mill, and found that only one of my dozen or so boring tools has the right adaptor sleeve, and that one was much too short. So I had to use the £20 boring head not the £3000 one.
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[23:26:02] <andypugh> OoBIGeye: Having problems?
[23:29:09] <Gensor> hello andy
[23:33:18] <andypugh> Hi
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[23:45:49] <ssi> woo, cut threads!
[23:47:18] <andypugh> Found a good page today: http://www.tribology-abc.com/calculators/metric-iso.htm
[23:47:57] <andypugh> Though I have seen that diagram a few times now, and I think that d and D are wrong.
[23:49:57] <andypugh> My understanding is that with a metric thread the nominal diameter is the diameter of a sharp-tipped tap. So an external thread (with H/6 rounding) is smaller than nominal (they certainly always measure that way) but that diagram shows them as bigger.
[23:50:41] <ssi> I think you're right
[23:50:55] <ssi> although my knowledge of thread profiles is still pretty basic
[23:51:05] <ssi> I need to get some wires so I can dial in my profiles
[23:51:09] <ssi> I'm pretty sure this thread is too shallow
[23:51:29] <andypugh> Mine is extensive, but the more you learn, the more there is to learn.
[23:51:42] <elmo40> what? you don't stop learning?
[23:51:43] <elmo40> damn
[23:52:06] <elmo40> life long learning, so bothersome :P
[23:52:10] <i_tarzan> on practice the cut is made on trial basis
[23:52:18] <andypugh> Yes, you stop learning eventually.
[23:52:29] <andypugh> But the fun stops too.
[23:53:14] <ssi> there's just too damn much to learn :/
[23:53:26] <ssi> feel like my brain is filling up and I'm losing stuff out the back
[23:53:40] <andypugh> Actually, for 5% of people, the fun hasn't stopped yet. Statisitically you have a 5% chance of not dying.
[23:54:15] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_metric_screw_thread
[23:54:17] <i_tarzan> without using a gauge on H/XX roundings
[23:55:06] <andypugh> Different diagram, but same problem. I have never measured a metric external thread that is anywhere near nominal diameter.
[23:57:05] <i_tarzan> on a common cut the tool gets some wear on that roundings which makes difficult to follow the standard
[23:57:23] <andypugh> I think I am going to write a sub to make correct internal and external metric threads based on pitch and nominal. It is all governed by simple equations, so why use a table?
[23:57:55] <andypugh> Tool wear should only ever make the thread OD bigger?
[23:59:06] <andypugh> The _words_ say that the outermost H/8 of the thread is cut off, but the diagram does not show that,
[23:59:23] <Paragon39> andypugh: Will the sub be completed by tomorrow? ;-)
[23:59:50] <andypugh> it could be, if you want it?