#emc | Logs for 2011-04-18

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[00:31:08] <mikegg> argh noisy servos
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[00:47:59] <danimal_garage> are you running 2.5?
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[03:48:09] <awallin> http://www.springerlink.com/content/946438145640jt74/
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[05:25:15] <L84Supper> http://www.makerengineering.com/blog1.php/ez-lathe-printable-mini-lathe
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[06:39:34] <Gensor> anyone up on sanyo encoders with ABS-RII
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[08:01:25] <archivist> L84Supper, "I designed it to be 100% 3D Printable" including the metal! I dont think...100% is a lie
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[08:07:06] <mrsunshine__> hmm, i wonder if there is a nice way to extend the length of a dremel tool =)
[08:07:39] <mrsunshine__> i would like it to go like 40mm outside (sure its small tools but given its foam im milling with it :P)
[08:07:52] <mrsunshine__> so that i can make 40mm deep pockets with it
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[11:32:48] <anonimasu> JT-Shop: are you there? how do you handle the torch-probe when you run your plasma?
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[11:53:18] <jthornton> I'm still down here in the beer cave :)
[11:53:31] <anonimasu> hehe, I see
[11:53:43] <jthornton> drinking coffee
[11:54:00] <anonimasu> fail... :)
[11:54:07] <jthornton> I don't understand your question exactly
[11:54:25] <anonimasu> how do you handle auto touching off your plasma?
[11:54:36] <jthornton> code wise?
[11:54:48] <anonimasu> yeah, im trying to mess with my post to do it but not so good luck with that
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[11:56:01] <jthornton> I call a subroutine touchoff.ngc
[11:56:16] <jthornton> give me a second to upload it to my web page
[11:57:16] <anonimasu> allright im running sheetcam and the issue is that it sticks some stuff modal when it shouldnt
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[12:01:35] <jthornton> let me find my post as well and upload that
[12:02:36] <anonimasu> amazing!
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[12:08:26] <jthornton> the post is not in a shared directory that I can get to from down here so it will be a little bit before I go out to the shop but touchoff.ngc is on the plasma page now
[12:08:31] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma.xhtml
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[12:44:45] <Jymmm> FSCK The post card form hating IRS bastards! Um typo there meant to say: G'Morning
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[12:53:32] <jthornton> anonimasu: done, refresh the page to get the SC post
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[13:08:58] <anonimasu> got it now
[13:08:59] <anonimasu> got it now/
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[14:46:55] <skunkworks> my stirling engine runs! yay
[14:48:55] <JT-Shop> got a video?
[14:49:04] <mozmck1> sounds like you have too much hot air ;)
[14:50:05] <mozmck1> seriously, that sound neat. Did you build the engine?
[14:50:38] <JT-Shop> can you get any useful power from one with enough temperature difference?
[14:51:51] <mozmck1> JT-Shop: if I remember correctly, they are not real efficient, but yes, you can.
[14:52:32] <mozmck1> Seems like I've heard of them building large ones for use in desert places for power or pumping or something.
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[14:53:32] <mozmck1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine
[14:53:47] <JT-Shop> so if you have a free source of heat like a wood heater could you circulate the water with no pressure?
[14:54:15] <mozmck1> no pressure?
[14:54:27] <mozmck1> you mean like steam pressure?
[14:54:37] <JT-Shop> open ended pipe
[14:54:46] <JT-Shop> no just hot water
[14:55:06] <mozmck1> You could have the engine pump the water through a pipe...
[14:55:32] <JT-Shop> put the cold end outside...
[14:57:51] <mozmck1> yep. the less temp difference the less work, but if you make it large enough it could do quite a bit I guess.
[14:59:14] <mozmck1> I've seen desktop fans powered by one candle or oil lamp that actually blow a nice breeze.
[15:00:41] <archivist> pressurised stirling is efficient
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[15:02:23] <mozmck1> just reading some on that. apparently more efficient than IC
[15:02:36] <mozmck1> http://www.stirlingengine.com/faq
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[15:11:23] <skunkworks> they can approch 50%
[15:11:43] <skunkworks> I don't have a video...
[15:12:48] <archivist> model engineer ex over here runs an annual competition for efficiency
[15:12:58] <skunkworks> found out I didn't have enough flywheel mass... so I ended up adding a 8 inch pully to it
[15:13:31] <archivist> getting multiple watts from a few cc
[15:14:02] <skunkworks> actually initially it was running a 20 inch pully but we figured we didn't need that much flywheel
[15:15:06] <skunkworks> this has 2 - 2"ish diameter pistons at 1 inch stroke
[15:15:13] <skunkworks> alpha
[15:16:22] <skunkworks> no regenerator yet
[15:17:20] <archivist> there are some crazy versions
[15:17:22] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=1550&subject=10838
[15:18:23] <skunkworks> I don't get those :)
[15:18:36] <skunkworks> acoustic mumble ones
[15:18:57] <archivist> that was not an acoustic one
[15:19:46] <skunkworks> really? huh - one piston - isn't?
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[15:20:27] <skunkworks> laminar flow - that is it. (I should have read the description)
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[15:20:39] <skunkworks> Still don't get them.... ;)
[15:21:02] <archivist> some trickery with the gauze/regenerator in the test tube and phase/delay
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[15:28:06] <skunkworks> stirling dyno? ;)\
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[16:29:37] <anonimasu> JT-Shop: I tried the post from you thanks!
[16:29:47] <anonimasu> tho it barely works ok with my setup
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[16:30:18] <anonimasu> my first try worked better, I set it up to probe down to the material and then offset the torch height when my sensor triggers
[16:30:21] <anonimasu> so Z0 is material
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[16:32:52] <aggrav8d> When should I use a drill instruction instead of profile inside?
[16:33:07] <aggrav8d> aren't they the same at small enough points?
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[16:57:18] <JT-Shop> anonimasu: at least you have something to compare to now :)
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[17:08:25] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: do you have a photo of your stirling?
[17:14:25] <skunkworks> not yet
[17:21:11] <skunkworks> I probably won't for a while. I have some design ideas that I want to work out...
[17:21:39] <skunkworks> I was just happy it ran at all. (considering I wing'ed it quite a bit)
[17:22:34] <skunkworks> only inital issue was not enough flywheel. after that it ran.
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[17:23:37] <skunkworks> any inexpensive temperature data aquisistion hardware?
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[17:24:12] <skunkworks> seems to me there was a thread on the email list recently
[17:26:39] <psha> skunkworks: 1-wire sensors
[17:27:14] <IchGuckLive> i use KTY 10
[17:27:31] <IchGuckLive> its linear so nice to read
[17:29:16] <IchGuckLive> also nice is a LM335
[17:29:58] <IchGuckLive> this is cheeper also 80cents
[17:30:28] <IchGuckLive> in TO92 you can fit it to the part
[17:31:19] <IchGuckLive> or in SO8 into the part itself
[17:32:15] <skunkworks> I have used the lm335 before. Do you remeber the upper limit of that?
[17:32:36] * skunkworks googl
[17:32:39] <skunkworks> googles
[17:32:55] <IchGuckLive> http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/L/M/3/3/LM335.shtml
[17:33:25] <archivist> dont forget hot end can be way above semiconductor limits
[17:33:58] <IchGuckLive> -40to+100C
[17:34:50] <archivist> hot end can be a few hundred to about 800 ish
[17:34:55] <skunkworks> oh sure - I am trying to keep the hot end under 500f
[17:35:33] <archivist> but some do run on a coffee cup
[17:35:39] <skunkworks> right
[17:35:59] <skunkworks> I consiter this low temp differential ;)
[17:36:47] <skunkworks> consider
[17:39:48] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: you can use a MAX6675 with a type K thermocouple
[17:40:20] <JT-Shop> 0 to +1100C
[17:40:30] <skunkworks> thanks
[17:40:47] <JT-Shop> I have one talking to my Ardunio
[17:40:53] <JT-Shop> with SPI
[17:41:03] <skunkworks> for your cooker?
[17:41:08] <JT-Shop> smoker yes
[17:41:13] <skunkworks> heh
[17:42:18] <JT-Shop> I got the probes here: http://www.auberins.com/
[17:44:19] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: nice and cheep
[17:44:36] <IchGuckLive> 45Dollars with Relay controll is quite usable
[17:44:43] <JT-Shop> yea
[17:45:18] <sarariman_seb_> the max6675 only goes up to 1024C (1843F), good for a smoker but not enough for heat treating steel
[17:45:26] <sarariman_seb_> is there a version that goes up to 1200C?
[17:46:02] <IchGuckLive> infrared
[17:51:09] <JT-Shop> I don't know
[17:52:55] <JT-Shop> a google search gave me this http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/7273
[17:53:39] <JT-Shop> This converter resolves temperatures to 0.25°C, allows readings as high as +1800°C and as low as -270°C
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[17:58:02] <IchGuckLive> but the Thermocouple is hard to find
[17:59:25] <IchGuckLive> late here Bye
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[18:00:11] <skunkworks> We have some stuff here at work that you twist the pairs togather - solder them and poof - thermocouple
[18:00:24] <skunkworks> I should talk to those guys
[18:00:37] <mozmck> solder melts at ~400 F
[18:00:45] <sarariman_seb_> wow that looks great JT-Shop
[18:01:14] <sarariman_seb_> runs with standard k-type thermocouples, easy to find
[18:02:13] <skunkworks> mozmck: good point
[18:03:13] <mozmck> most thermocouples I've seen are welded or melted together or something like that.
[18:07:00] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: you don't solder the twisted end you weld it or just twist it
[18:07:48] <skunkworks> oops
[18:08:46] <skunkworks> heh - I thought it was odd how they where doing it.. but they said they didn't have any issues... (they where soldering them to an copper plate)
[18:09:22] <mozmck> they are probably measuring lower temps I would guess.
[18:10:14] <JT-Shop> everything I've read on them say not to solder the thermocouple wire to anything... something to do with having another metal in the loop
[18:12:32] <skunkworks> I know I got the engine's hot side to around 500f because the steel turned brownish
[18:14:16] <skunkworks> brownish purple actually
[18:15:16] <skunkworks> I didn't back off - It was running and I kept the torch on it... Until a rubber oring I used exploded ;)
[18:15:54] <skunkworks> kinda went pfffts
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[18:21:52] <JT-Shop> need a water cooled o-ring
[18:22:53] <skunkworks> ptfe oring will probably work for my design criteria
[18:28:14] <JT-Shop> does the o-ring seal the crank?
[18:29:48] <skunkworks> crank? - I don't have a sealed crank case yet - that is version 2. this how the air gets between the hotside and the cold side.
[18:30:28] <skunkworks> seals the tubing
[18:30:37] <JT-Shop> ah, I see now
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[18:34:02] * JT-Shop thinks skunkworks is really working on an Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator... and can't show the world :)
[18:34:28] <skunkworks> oh - it isn't that explosive
[18:34:30] <skunkworks> oops
[18:35:03] <skunkworks> I mean - I don't know what you are talking about
[18:35:21] <archivist> piston rings to run really hot
[18:35:28] <JT-Shop> Marvin the Martian had one
[18:35:40] <JT-Shop> you might not be old enough to know
[18:35:50] <JT-Shop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_the_Martian
[18:36:27] <skunkworks> heh
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[19:15:16] <DaViruz> i remember seeing a calculator for finding the centre and radius of a circle given three points
[19:17:12] <DaViruz> i cheated and used qcad
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[19:22:58] <JT-Shop> the simple g code generator?
[19:32:35] <andypugh> Doe snayone know how to rotate/pan the view in Vismach?
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[19:33:59] <cradek> with the mouse
[19:34:56] <andypugh> The centre of rotation is about half a mile below the model, so that's only partially successful.
[19:35:22] <cradek> well it probably rotates around the origin...
[19:35:25] <andypugh> (I am playing with Visteurs genserkins mods.
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[19:35:49] <andypugh> It all looks fine in Axis preview.
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[20:05:19] <Connor> So, I'm redoing my dust shoe.. using rare earth magnets to hold it on.. I'm also going to add a contacts to it.. so that if the dust shoe collides with a clamp or something.. it breaks contact with the contacts.. and trips the Z-limit circuit..
[20:05:38] <Connor> Hopefully saving the endmill.
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[20:12:45] <cpresser> Connor: i like your ideas.. good thinking.
[20:13:18] <cpresser> ill use them when redesigning my dust collector
[20:13:19] <Connor> Thanks..
[20:13:46] <Connor> I got ones that are .25" x .25" rods.. about 5lbs holding force each.
[20:14:08] <Connor> from this place. http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/
[20:17:57] <cpresser> i already got a whole bunch of them. they are quite populat amongst geeks in germany :)
[20:18:51] <cpresser> i like the cubes, but for my dust-collector design flat discs are suited better
[20:19:42] <Connor> .25" X .25" rods / disks are nice.
[20:19:54] <Connor> I love the fact they self center.
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[20:21:27] <cpresser> did you glue the magnets to the frame?
[20:22:02] <cpresser> i hope the magnets wont lose to much power. vibaration is an issue for magnets
[20:22:09] <Connor> My shoe / router mount is made from MDF, So, in my test, I just drilled the hole slightly smaller then press fit
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[20:22:46] <Connor> When I build my new stuff, I'll do the same, but, will probably use epoxy or something too.
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[20:29:40] <mrsunshine__> hmm, thinking of building a small table metal bandsaw =)
[20:29:48] <mrsunshine__> would rock to have i think :P
[20:30:08] <mrsunshine__> tho most stuff i do can be done in the cnc mill with alot higher precision but sometimes i just want a fast and dirty job =)
[20:30:41] <mrsunshine__> gah so much to do so little time and motivation :P
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[20:31:54] <JT-Shop> come around here I'll MOTIVATE you! NOW GET BUSY!
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[20:39:16] <mrsunshine__> JT-Shop, well showered and in bed atm, so no thanks ... and to make some of the stuff i want i need to complete the new furnace :/
[20:39:42] <atom1> which is the important thread on the latency test?
[20:39:51] <skunkworks> both?
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[21:06:17] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pK8dplyTHM&feature=player_embedded
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[22:09:46] <marcin_ose> Hi people, this is Marcin of GVCS - http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html . How do I slave two x-axis motors on opposite sides of my torch table?
[22:10:24] <marcin_ose> Also, what's the best tutorial on G-Code that you would recommend? Any good stuff on YouTube?
[22:11:53] <elmo40> quick reference: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode.html
[22:12:28] <elmo40> ted.com is nice. but many people think there is 'an agenda'.
[22:12:52] <marcin_ose> Yes. The agenda is post-scarcity. What do others think that it is?
[22:13:30] <marcin_ose> How do I set the axis config so that 2 motors operate one x axis?
[22:13:49] <marcin_ose> Is that in the stepconf wizard?
[22:14:28] <cradek> are they wired separately to the computer, and if so, what is your goal in having them separate?
[22:15:13] <elmo40> I went to that 'open farm' website. emailed ya a while ago. was wondering about the babington burner concept.
[22:15:29] <elmo40> love the brick machine :)
[22:15:39] <elmo40> did you need clay to make them strong?
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[22:18:32] <marcin_ose> cradek: I have 2 channels out of the Xylotex controller going to the 2 motors on the x axis. It is driven from each side with gear rack on the x axis.
[22:19:02] <marcin_ose> It's a 5 foot wide torch table, 8 feet long on the x axis.
[22:19:14] <marcin_ose> http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Torch_Table_Build_Prototype_1_Completion
[22:19:17] <cradek> I'm not too familiar with xylotex. does this mean the wiring from the computer to the driver is fixed?
[22:19:33] <elmo40> marcin_ose: I too am building one :) Only going to use one motor, though. chain on the one side is strong enough.
[22:19:40] <cradek> it's very easy to tie step/dir for two drives together, either in the real world, or in the HAL configuration layer
[22:20:01] <cradek> I doubt you can do it directly in stepconf.
[22:20:27] <cradek> what I was trying to determine with my question was whether this kind of tying-together accomplishes your goals.
[22:20:53] <marcin_ose> Since the GUI has xyz channels, I need to connect the x channel to 2 physical motors.
[22:21:12] <marcin_ose> If it's driven from one side, it stresses the machine the way it is currently designed.
[22:22:03] <cradek> I fear we're not communicating very well
[22:22:16] <elmo40> ya, I see how you drive it. from under the sides.
[22:22:39] <elmo40> cradek: he has two motors to drive the X, he wants them to both run simultaneously.
[22:22:48] <cradek> yes I understand that
[22:23:14] <cradek> I am wondering why the step/dir inputs aren't wired together, if that would be an adequate solution
[22:23:31] <cradek> if it is not an adequate solution, I'm trying to figure out what makes it inadequate
[22:23:39] <JT-Shop> step A = pin8 direction A = pin 9 on a 4 axis zylotex
[22:24:00] <JT-Shop> it uses a parallel cable from port to box
[22:24:02] <cradek> ok it's just that the physical wiring is hard to change?
[22:24:05] <cradek> ok.
[22:24:20] <cradek> then you can do the same thing in the HAL layer - is that adequate?
[22:24:22] <JT-Shop> http://www.xylotex.com/Econo4AxSpecial.htm
[22:24:49] <cradek> gotcha - uses a commodity cable.
[22:24:53] <JT-Shop> yep
[22:25:51] <cradek> this question can be about hooking two wires together, or about HAL, or about alignment/homing procedure, or ...
[22:26:11] <cradek> brb
[22:26:45] <JT-Shop> marcin_ose: I take it you got the drive working?
[22:36:07] <marcin_ose> Yes.
[22:36:19] <marcin_ose> Problem was bad parport address.
[22:36:25] <JT-Shop> ah, ok
[22:36:39] <marcin_ose> Yup.
[22:36:44] <JT-Shop> do you know where your configuration files are?
[22:38:04] <andypugh> marcin_ose: Simplest solution is to hand-edit the HAL file that stepconf creates so that the stepgen.0 output is sent to both sets of parport pins.
[22:38:06] <marcin_ose> Ah, ok, i think i see the solution. In the Parallel Port setup, just set two sets of pins to run the x axis, right?
[22:38:08] <JT-Shop> emc2/config/nameof your config
[22:38:14] <JT-Shop> yep
[22:38:31] <marcin_ose> Yep to Parallel Port setup?
[22:38:52] <JT-Shop> that might work
[22:39:01] <marcin_ose> i'll try.
[22:39:38] <marcin_ose> And I will need to invert one of them, so they both run in the same direction on the torch table, I think.
[22:40:30] <JT-Shop> that will be the direction pin
[22:40:43] <andypugh> Actually, you probably can do it in stepconf. Just choose X-step for two pins, and X-dir for both other pins.
[22:40:43] <andypugh> If the motors need to turn the opposite way to each other, invert one direction pin.
[22:41:03] <andypugh> There is a more technical way which allows you to home the sides independently and auto-square. That involves using the gantry kinematics and the sample file in the distribution isn't the clearest.
[22:42:33] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I think he is trying that now
[22:42:34] <marcin_ose> Since it's gear rack drive, I can square manually with the Xylotex box turned off.
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[22:45:07] <andypugh> A nice rigid shaft from one side to the other works well, too.
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[22:50:47] <JT-Shop> I had a shaft on mine but it flexed too much so I replaced it with a thin wall tube about 4x the diameter and lighter than the rod
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[23:24:35] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: "...thin wall tube..." You mean a condom?
[23:30:58] <JT-Shop> yea jymmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[23:31:33] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Hmmm, I thought they were against your religion?
[23:34:21] <JT-Shop> tubing?
[23:34:28] <Jymmm> condoms
[23:37:55] <JT-Shop> which religion is that Jymmm?
[23:38:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: The "I can't feel anything" religion
[23:38:44] <JT-Shop> I don't belong to that one but I am paganus
[23:38:52] <Jymmm> heh
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[23:45:15] <ve7it> -10+
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[23:48:20] <JT-Shop> que
[23:48:33] <Jymmm> por
[23:49:24] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: what's for dinner?
[23:49:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: sausage
[23:49:41] <JT-Shop> do I have time to make it to your house before you eat?
[23:50:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: If you run real fast, or hop on a G6
[23:50:18] <JT-Shop> ah, ok
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[23:50:52] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://apartmentlounge.com/music/Like_A_G6.mp3
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[23:55:27] <Gensor> does anyone have that link where a bear is sculptured from clay, then scanned, and robot arm makes huge version from foam?
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