#emc | Logs for 2011-03-07

[00:00:01] <danimal_garage> how close do they repeat?
[00:00:06] <Connor_CNC> Hmm.. when My X (which doesn't have it's limits yet) moves to the extreme (same side that the Y opto is on) it must cause a slight wiggle or something, cause it triggers the Y limit
[00:00:56] <danimal_garage> i used cheap reed switches and it repeats within .002"
[00:01:00] <andypugh> You might want a debounce function (in HAL) on the limits, it could be electrical noise.
[00:01:22] <andypugh> My optos are good to something like 0,03mm
[00:01:59] <Connor_CNC> it's not noise, it's the opto.. I can physically trip the limit when it's at 0 (supposedly 0.1mm from the limit)
[00:02:39] <Connor_CNC> I did notice that the optos are analog, they'll pass lower current values depending on the amount of the flag that they see.
[00:02:48] <Connor_CNC> not a simply high/lo
[00:03:42] <andypugh> Yes. Mine are focussed-bean style so quite sharp.
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[00:04:02] <Connor_CNC> reflective?
[00:04:16] <Connor_CNC> or interupt?
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[00:04:40] <andypugh> You might find you need a comparator in the circuit to square things up a bit.
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[00:04:44] <andypugh> Mine are reflective.
[00:05:13] <Connor_CNC> comparator ?
[00:06:15] <Connor_CNC> I have a 7414 schmitt trigger
[00:06:24] <Connor_CNC> wonder if that'll clean it up.
[00:06:52] <andypugh> It's an IC which flips from 5V to 0V when one input is higher than the other. You tend to use them with an analog input to one terminal and a potentiometer between the other, 5V and GND. Then you get a good, hard, flipat a very well defined position
[00:07:34] <Connor_CNC> sounds like a schmitt trigger.
[00:08:10] <andypugh> Consider it to be an adjustable Schmitt trigger.
[00:08:39] <Connor_CNC> I can adjust the position of my sensors by about a 1/8 or so.
[00:08:42] <Connor_CNC> manually.
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[00:09:55] <andypugh> The advantage of a comparator is that you can have it switch with a voltage swing from 4.5V to 4.8V, for example, or 0.2V to 0.4V. Can be handy with opto-sensors.
[00:16:52] <andypugh> Mine are LM393P. Pennies each: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=0810239
[00:22:37] <Connor_CNC> Yea, it's just on the tipping point...
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[00:24:40] <Valen> the old 3 states of binary logic circuits
[00:24:44] <Valen> on, off and !@#ed
[00:25:38] <Connor> I hooked up my schmitt trigger and set it up so I have LED's One for stop limit one for not limited.. and I can watch hit tip back and forth when the X moves too hard or something.
[00:26:07] <Connor> also.. swap out the schmitt for a 7404, and I can watch it go back and forth.. or BOTH LED's go off.
[00:26:28] <Connor> one should always be lit.. not sure why it would end up having both off.
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[00:52:37] <edoctoor> archivist: All day man... all day... and half the night... I finally got Ubuntu installed but not your Ubuntu... as only Ubuntu 64 bit was the only package that would install without crashing my computer
[00:53:21] <edoctoor> The sad part is ... I don't have EMC2 ... arrrrrrrrrrrrgh
[00:54:26] <edoctoor> has anyone figured out how to run EMC2 on Ubuntu 64 bit?
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[01:17:08] <edoctoor> is there a emc repository?
[01:17:42] <Jymmm> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb
[01:19:18] <edoctoor> Ok,,, I have Ubuntu 64 bit... and very little Kernal knowledge... is there a way that I can get EMC2 on this Box... I love this channel and would like get in on the action...
[01:21:52] <cradek> are you trying to run a machine with it, or just use the simulator?
[01:23:02] <edoctoor> I am a noob... so I have ordered a stepper motor card for parallel port.. and now I am trying to run EMC2
[01:23:53] <cradek> if you are a noob and want to run a machine, you should probably use one of the OSes supported by the linuxcnc team
[01:24:05] <cradek> this way, you can just install packages and have it easily and quickly work
[01:24:50] <edoctoor> Those OS crash this computer
[01:25:04] <Connor_CNC> Crash it?
[01:25:08] <Connor_CNC> How so?
[01:25:14] <edoctoor> DEAD STOP
[01:25:21] <Tom_itx> did you try the live cd?
[01:25:22] <edoctoor> before login
[01:25:49] <Connor_CNC> What video card you have in the machine ?
[01:25:51] <edoctoor> Yes, you know I have been working on this all day Tom_itx
[01:26:08] <Tom_itx> no i didn't. i've been busy with my own stuff
[01:26:32] <edoctoor> Tom_itx: don't you remember me about 15 hours ago?
[01:26:44] <Tom_itx> yup
[01:27:09] <Connor_CNC> remembering and keeping up with everything you've done are two different things. :)
[01:27:21] <edoctoor> Well the LIVE CD works perfectly...but it isn't a harddrive install so it only half of ubuntu
[01:27:29] <edoctoor> I know
[01:27:31] <edoctoor> LOL
[01:27:45] <edoctoor> But when I installed to the hard drive
[01:27:51] <Jymmm> Yes it is
[01:27:57] <Connor_CNC> what sort of hard drive do you have?, what controller you using ?
[01:28:09] <edoctoor> it crashed DEAD STOP
[01:28:13] <Connor_CNC> hard drive controller that is
[01:28:26] <edoctoor> so then I spent all day begging the guys at #ubuntu
[01:29:03] <edoctoor> and they told me that I need to google for fallback... or something that was way too confusing for me
[01:29:05] <edoctoor> then
[01:29:12] <Connor_CNC> tell us about the computer. Hardware wise.
[01:29:25] <Connor_CNC> What controller you have enabled in the BIOS etc..
[01:29:31] <edoctoor> I Installed Ubuntu 64 bit and my computer didn't crash
[01:29:40] <Jymmm> 386 DX50, 8MB Ram, 5.25" Floppy
[01:29:51] <edoctoor> I have order the parts to make a controller...
[01:30:06] <edoctoor> but haven't received them yet
[01:30:07] <Connor_CNC> No. The controller for the Hard Drive...
[01:30:26] <Connor_CNC> Is it SATA.. If So, what chipset do you have enabled...
[01:30:40] <edoctoor> I don't know that stuff
[01:31:00] <edoctoor> I am in Linux... where is the system info
[01:31:12] <edoctoor> it is SATA
[01:31:14] <Connor_CNC> What's the mobo
[01:31:21] <Connor_CNC> the part # for the motherboard ?
[01:32:14] <edoctoor> 64 bit AMD Athlon === video is Nvidia Geforce 6150SE nForce 430 on the mobo
[01:32:50] <Connor_CNC> ok. What model or part # for the mainboard?
[01:33:00] <edoctoor> brb
[01:33:35] <Connor_CNC> probably something like power management or wrong SATA controlled specified.
[01:33:48] <edoctoor> Asus M2N-MX SE Plus
[01:34:05] <Jymmm> I bet he's in SATA mode in the bios instead of sim mode
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[01:34:46] <Connor_CNC> His mobo has RAID 0 and 1 support also.
[01:34:50] <edoctoor> Oh one more thing
[01:35:38] <edoctoor> I could get Your Package installed.. but I had to do the following to get pass the conflict
[01:36:04] <edoctoor> I would start in RECOVER and hold SHIFt as someone told me to do here
[01:36:20] <edoctoor> then I choose ROOTNET or NETROOT
[01:36:28] <edoctoor> then typed STARTX
[01:36:32] <edoctoor> that would work
[01:36:43] <edoctoor> So I have been very very busy
[01:37:47] <Connor_CNC> make sure you have nVidia RAID function disabled in your BIOS.
[01:37:52] <edoctoor> Note: I have deleted all my Ubuntu stuff
[01:38:11] <Connor_CNC> That's fine. You need to use the ISO from linuxcnc anyway
[01:38:19] <edoctoor> I wouldn't use raid... but I am not sure
[01:38:49] <Connor_CNC> Yea, but, if you've not been in your Bios, you have no idea what's turned on and off by default.
[01:39:01] <edoctoor> that is true
[01:39:09] <edoctoor> where would I look
[01:39:16] <Connor_CNC> best thing to do, is go in, and turn off all the fancy stuff.
[01:39:22] <Connor_CNC> no need for RAID.
[01:39:39] <Connor_CNC> Umm, get your mobo manual out..
[01:39:46] <edoctoor> Hay... I have three OS on this... I don't want to loose everything...
[01:39:58] <Connor_CNC> This isn't dedicated?
[01:40:06] <Tom_itx> better get another drive then
[01:40:09] <Connor_CNC> yea...
[01:40:09] <Tom_itx> and play on it
[01:40:14] <edoctoor> I have two drives
[01:40:16] <Tom_itx> since you don't know what you're doing
[01:40:28] <edoctoor> easy guys
[01:40:30] <Tom_itx> write down any bios changes you make
[01:40:39] <Tom_itx> i'm being methodical
[01:40:40] <edoctoor> we are going way off track
[01:41:03] <Tom_itx> not really. you said you didn't wanna lose what you had
[01:41:03] <edoctoor> the crash was a full crash... that means video related
[01:41:05] <edoctoor> ok
[01:41:32] <Connor_CNC> what do you mean it was a full crash.. and that means it's video related ?
[01:42:20] <Connor_CNC> if it was video related, it would have most likely went into video recovery mode which is generic drivers.
[01:42:23] <edoctoor> so I don't want to push away good help.. but I like to know that what I said was heard and understood before charging in some random direction
[01:43:06] <Connor_CNC> well, since we don't know what you've already done with exception to trying the liveCD. we have to look at other things..
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[01:43:36] <Connor_CNC> Since liveCD most likely uses the same video as the full on system... I would think one of the differences might be the hard drive controller.
[01:43:48] <edoctoor> my guess is that ubuntu 32 installs ubuntu 32 video drivers that conflict... and when i installed 64 bit with 64 bit drivers all worked
[01:44:24] <Connor_CNC> shouldn't matter. 32 bit drivers are fine on a 64 bit machine if the OS is 32bit also.
[01:45:19] <edoctoor> Ah... not on mine ;-)
[01:45:56] <Connor_CNC> Well.. EMC and linux aren't exactly noob friendly.
[01:46:11] <Connor_CNC> especially when dealing with 64bit hardware and 64bit OS's.
[01:46:23] <Connor_CNC> You might want to look into Mach3.
[01:46:43] <edoctoor> like I said: I used recover... booted into NETROOT and then startX that WORKS so it is a video since I bypassed the xorg.conf
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[01:48:11] <Connor_CNC> my CNC machine doesn't even have a xorg.conf file... not sure why..
[01:48:12] <edoctoor> Mr. Conner_CNC I don't need the brush off because I am not going to configure my bios at will....
[01:48:41] <Connor_CNC> edoctoor: I was just asking if you had looked at the settings. Do what you want.
[01:49:15] <Connor_CNC> I have a xorg.conf.failsafe
[01:49:35] <Connor_CNC> uses the vesa driver for the video...
[01:49:35] <edoctoor> and Mr.. connner what does the NETROOT and STARTX BYpass?????????????????????????????? not the controller
[01:49:54] <edoctoor> That is exactly what I am looking for
[01:50:17] <edoctoor> email that file to me and tell me where to put it
[01:50:46] <edoctoor> that is what I am looking for
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[01:51:07] <Connor_CNC> http://pastebin.com/Byajm6m7
[01:51:17] <Connor_CNC> that's a copy of my xorg.conf.failsafe
[01:51:34] <Connor_CNC> /etc/X11/xorg.conf.failsafe
[01:51:36] <edoctoor> what directory do I put it in
[01:51:43] <Connor_CNC> /etc/X11
[01:51:51] <edoctoor> perfect...
[01:52:09] <Connor_CNC> Back in a bit.
[01:56:08] <edoctoor> Tell Mr Connor_CNC thanks... I am going to ReInstall and cross my fingers... We can fix this... I just know it.
[01:56:22] <edoctoor> bye for now Edoctoor
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[03:18:34] <Edoctoor> hey
[03:19:54] <Edoctoor> anyone here know how to install Nvidia... in a console...
[03:21:48] <Edoctoor> 5) When an error message pops up saying that Ubuntu cannot load Nvidia drivers, choose Exit to terminal (Exit to console)
[03:22:07] <Edoctoor> I don't know how to Exit to terminal
[03:22:43] <Edoctoor> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/howto-install-nvidia-drivers-manually-on-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-lynx.html
[03:22:50] <Edoctoor> This is what I am trying to do
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[03:29:04] <Connor> Crap!. Broke another freaking cheap a$$ chines helix coupler... (trying to get my limit switches working)
[03:29:33] <cradek> Edoctoor's link proves that just because something's on the internet doesn't necessarily make it good advice
[03:29:51] <danimal_garage> lol
[03:30:22] <Connor> I hadn't look.. but what's wrong with the info ?
[03:30:24] <danimal_garage> Connor, that sucks
[03:30:49] <cradek> it says to install nividia's .run file, bypassing apt
[03:31:22] <Connor> Yup. Going to look for some new ones.. any suggestions? I want the side clamping style vs set screw..
[03:31:40] <cradek> I have those cursed things on my lathe, between screw and resolver/tach
[03:31:49] <cradek> so when it snaps, the axis runs away
[03:32:06] <danimal_garage> have you had one break cradek?
[03:32:20] <cradek> yes when the gear mesh was badly adjusted
[03:32:37] <danimal_garage> ouch
[03:33:03] <cradek> yeah, not good
[03:33:59] <danimal_garage> i keep getting realtime delay errors and i cant figure out why :/
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[03:34:50] <cradek> machine that used to work, or a new one?
[03:35:38] <danimal_garage> new mobo
[03:35:52] <danimal_garage> one of those d510mo's
[03:35:55] <Connor> okay, need a 8mm to 10mm coupler..
[03:36:03] <Connor> any suggestions on source?
[03:36:25] <Connor> about30mm tall.
[03:36:25] <Connor>
[03:36:26] <danimal_garage> mcmaster carr?
[03:36:47] <cradek> what's it coupling to what?
[03:37:14] <Connor> Stepper to ball screw
[03:37:35] <cradek> high precision or low precision machine?
[03:37:53] <Connor> The screw and rails are medium.. the machine is built out of MDF.
[03:38:10] <cradek> then get rubber tubing 8mm ID and two hose clamps
[03:38:46] <Connor> That'll be a bit too much backlash would it not?
[03:38:57] <cradek> depends on the type of tubing
[03:46:01] <Connor> I'd rather have a rigid coupler..
[03:46:25] <Valen> "sprung" backlash isn't as bad as if its flopping in between
[03:46:48] <Connor> what do you mean?
[03:47:10] <Valen> rubber hose will keep pushing it back towards center
[03:47:35] <Valen> if its like a loose acme thread then it'll flop around in the backlash
[03:48:33] <Connor> Oh. My bearing blocks are enough to keep that from happening.. I'm more talking about when it's making changes in direction, the tube could give a little causing the axis to to be off a little.
[03:49:11] <Tom_itx> well that's what they use solid couplers with a center doughnut for
[03:49:59] <Connor> HUh?
[03:50:02] <Tom_itx> probably not so desireable on a precision machine though
[03:50:11] <Tom_itx> split couplers
[03:50:35] <Connor> I'm not calling mine precision.. but, it's not exactly crappy either.. I can mill PCB's with it.
[03:51:06] <Tom_itx> http://www.sdp-si.com/eStore/CoverPg/Couplings.htm
[03:51:28] <Tom_itx> there's about any kind you could imagine
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[03:54:51] <danimal_garage> mmmmmm.... doughnuts.....
[03:55:15] <Tom_itx> wired up one of the steppers tonight
[03:55:29] <danimal_garage> did it work?
[03:55:44] <Tom_itx> of course
[03:55:51] <danimal_garage> cool
[03:55:52] <Connor> Youch. $67.00 for one.
[03:55:57] <Tom_itx> it was a desk run but i wanted to sort out the polarity etc
[03:56:05] <danimal_garage> yea good idea
[03:56:05] <Connor> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail.asp?Opener=Group&PartID=26644&GroupID=329
[03:56:48] <cradek> you should get couplers that can take all the torque of your motors
[03:57:13] <Connor> I thought these could.
[03:57:15] <Tom_itx> Connor, partly because they're stainless
[03:57:26] <Connor> Yea. these are a little cheaper.
[03:57:26] <Connor> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail.asp?Opener=Group&PartID=52107&GroupID=329
[03:57:29] <Tom_itx> and sortof specialty
[03:58:18] <Connor> My motors are 354oz-in
[03:59:06] <danimal_garage> just buy a 6mm one and bore out one end
[03:59:22] <Connor> With what? My drill press?
[03:59:47] <Tom_itx> a lathe
[03:59:49] <Connor> I modded a smaler one I had for the Z when the first one broke.. not happy with the results.. but it worked..
[03:59:55] <Connor> Yea, which I don't have.
[03:59:56] <Tom_itx> get a local guy to bore it out for you
[04:00:04] <Tom_itx> it would be cheaper probably
[04:00:10] <Tom_itx> just a drill and reamer
[04:00:27] <Tom_itx> hell you could fixture it in your drill press for that matter
[04:00:31] <cradek> true that it doesn't have to be super concentric
[04:00:36] <danimal_garage> a drill and reamer will likely work fine
[04:00:41] <Tom_itx> but it could be if you took your time
[04:00:45] <Tom_itx> even on the drillpress
[04:00:51] <Tom_itx> turn the coupler and hold the drill
[04:01:01] <danimal_garage> or buy an 8mm and a bushing
[04:01:06] <Tom_itx> naw
[04:01:08] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't do that
[04:01:21] <cradek> that might not be as likely to clamp well
[04:01:40] <danimal_garage> i've done it with pulleys with no problems
[04:01:41] <Tom_itx> the trick with those is to drill a hole thru the bushing
[04:01:55] <Tom_itx> and run the grub screw thru it
[04:02:01] <danimal_garage> well yea
[04:02:06] <Tom_itx> so the bushing is just a bushing
[04:02:11] <danimal_garage> exactly
[04:02:26] <danimal_garage> likea boring bar bushing for a tool holder
[04:02:38] <danimal_garage> or boring head
[04:03:16] <Connor> Crap. I need 1.8 or better in N.m for torque.
[04:03:42] <Connor> err 1.8ft-lbs.
[04:04:09] <danimal_garage> http://www.mcmaster.com/#motion-control-couplings/=bbnmmt
[04:05:19] <danimal_garage> i've had good luck with the couplers that use the rubber spiders
[04:05:28] <danimal_garage> like lovejoy couplers
[04:05:44] <danimal_garage> that's actually what my mill came with
[04:06:00] <danimal_garage> and it's a 6,000lb machine
[04:07:34] <danimal_garage> ok time to go, adios
[04:13:11] <Connor> someone double check my math? 354Oz in around 1.8ft-lbs around2.45 n-m
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[04:17:01] <Tom_itx> in/lb * 8.85 = N-m
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[04:24:05] <Tom_itx> 8.20136875
[04:24:26] <Tom_itx> was what i got
[04:24:52] <Tom_itx> wait i was looking at the wrong chart
[04:26:37] <Tom_itx> 2.4997887
[04:26:44] <Connor> yup. Dang.
[04:27:06] <Connor> No wonder it broke.. I bet those cheap ones can't even get close to handling that..
[04:27:23] <Tom_itx> make your own
[04:31:15] <Connor> Again, Don't have the tools to do so... with exception the rubber hose idea.
[04:31:23] <Connor> I don't mind spending the $$$ on one..
[04:31:31] <Connor> Just need to find the right one.
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[04:33:15] <Tom_itx> you could do the drill press and reamer thing
[04:33:35] <Connor> Still need one to start with though..
[04:33:39] <Tom_itx> get a drill blank for the other side and put that in the chuck
[04:33:52] <Tom_itx> and drill and ream the other side
[04:34:26] <Tom_itx> it would be better in a lathe but i bet you can do it
[04:40:53] <Tom_itx> what are the 2 shaft sizes?
[04:41:00] <Connor> 8mm to 10mm
[04:42:05] <Tom_itx> you could do that with a reamer but that's quite a bit for it
[04:43:07] <Tom_itx> steppers or servo?
[04:43:15] <Connor> steppers
[04:43:22] <Tom_itx> the clamps might vibrate alot if you use hose
[04:43:31] <Tom_itx> the steppers are slow enough it might be ok
[04:48:11] <Connor> I'm tempted to get another 3 from china.. also need some drag chain..
[04:51:02] <Connor> geez 10 to 20 days
[04:51:03] <Connor> ouch
[04:53:58] <Tom_itx> the price you pay for cheap
[04:54:04] <Connor> yea, I know.
[05:03:42] <Connor> I forgot about that.. I had to bore out 2 of these already anyway.. They didn't have the correct size for the motor..
[05:04:08] <Connor> I made some v-blocks out of MDF and clamped them into my vice, and used my drill press to enlarge one side.
[05:04:16] <Connor> still wasn't happy doing that..
[05:04:31] <Connor> I would just much rather by the correct coupler and be done with it.
[05:19:18] <bill2or3> anyone alive who's configured the the arduino+hal stuff?
[05:19:23] * bill2or3 is confused about what goes where.
[05:19:35] <Connor> I've done some.. not much.
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[05:27:53] <bill2or3> I have the arduino-vcp.xml, and the arduino-vcp.hal, which contains the loadusr commands for 'arduino' the python script, and arduino-vcp.xml, the pyvcp stuff.
[05:28:19] <bill2or3> I can get the panel to work outside of emc, but can't figure what goes where to get it loaded in axis.
[05:28:21] <Connor> the .hal needs to be included in via custom-gui.hal
[05:28:49] <Connor> the .pyvcp can be called or included from the other pyvcp file in your config dir
[05:28:56] <bill2or3> I'd loaded it with a HALFILE=arduino-vcp.hal in the machinename.ini, is that no good?
[05:29:29] <Connor> I don't remember.. I can't look either as my CNC is down and turned off.
[05:29:42] <bill2or3> I'll try including it in the existing one.
[05:31:14] <Connor> Oh WOW. Plastic couplers? Good up to 3.8 N.m $16.76 each??
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[05:31:57] <Connor> I wonder how bad the backlash would be with those...
[05:33:28] <bill2or3> got it working with the arduino VCP in a separate window, which is probably better anyway, since the cnc machine has a small display
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[05:33:46] <Connor> There is a way to get the vcp included too.
[05:33:52] <Connor> I just don't recall how.
[05:34:05] <Connor> Check the .ini file for it
[05:34:10] <Connor> probably loads it up there
[05:36:55] <bill2or3> nah, I'm going to leave it in it's own window, it was just scrolled off the side of the screen when it was in axis, anway.
[05:37:04] <bill2or3> thanks for the helps
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[08:35:01] <kvirdi_> hey guys
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[08:35:17] <kvirdi_> i am currently wiring my encoders
[08:35:42] <kvirdi_> are there are differences in wiring directly to my controller or to my drive and then my controller?
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[13:24:19] <Jymmm> Google Sketchup G-Code Generator plugin... http://www.buildlog.net/blog/2010/11/phlatscript-sketchup-to-g-code/
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[14:23:43] <alex_joni> great.. snow again
[14:25:15] <skunkworks> heh same here.
[14:25:24] <skunkworks> supposed to get 4 to 8" tomorrow
[14:25:34] <skunkworks> flurries today
[14:26:31] <alex_joni> cool, 14F tonight
[14:26:42] <alex_joni> and 6F tomorrow
[14:31:04] <skunkworks> 30+f here. a good amount of it might be rain or freezing rain.
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[16:13:26] <ATxMega_> combo pendant/kb? http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/03/gamepad2953901.jpg
[16:15:14] <skunkworks> yikes ;)
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[16:39:04] <danimal_garage> dammit my computer is resetting in the middle of the night for some reason
[16:39:16] <danimal_garage> after doing the last updates
[16:40:56] <danimal_garage> second night in a row it did it
[16:43:50] <Connor> Hey guys.. give me your thoughts on these couplers.. These are made form Engineered Plastic. Look interesting.. Higher torque rating that Alum ones.. close to Stainless.. https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail.asp?Opener=Group&PartID=77099&GroupID=1060
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[16:47:47] <Jymmm> It has a gyro mouse
[16:49:04] <danimal_garage> got booted. anyone know why it appears lucid would reboot in the middle of the night?
[16:49:19] <Jymmm> the logs never lie
[16:49:35] <danimal_garage> how do i check the logs?
[16:50:03] <danimal_garage> nm
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[16:50:09] <danimal_garage> googled it
[16:51:12] <SWPadnos> Connor, look at the torsional stiffness for plastic vs. metal - you'll see that the plastic will flex quite a bit more than the metal
[16:51:40] <SWPadnos> 18 Nm/rad vs. 500 for Aluminum or 850 for stainless
[16:51:59] <Connor> I.E. the same concern I had about using Rubber hoses
[16:52:30] <SWPadnos> the way I read that, under full load (which I think was around 2 NM for your motor, give or take), the plastic might flex by 2/18 radian
[16:52:52] <SWPadnos> which seems like a whole lot - that's over 5 degrees
[16:52:59] <Connor> 2.49 I think is what we came up with.
[16:53:11] <Connor> but yea..
[16:53:16] <SWPadnos> 2.49 degrees per Nm, I bet ...
[16:53:35] <Connor> no.. 2.49 N.M torque.
[16:53:39] <SWPadnos> oh
[16:53:46] <SWPadnos> ok, so even more flex :)
[16:54:23] <danimal_garage> the kernel log says error hangcheck timer elapsed, gpu hung
[16:54:24] <SWPadnos> now, the plastic is sure less expensive
[16:54:32] <danimal_garage> which is when it shut down
[16:54:42] <danimal_garage> maybe the cpu is overheating?
[16:54:43] <SWPadnos> danimal_garage, bad video driver, which could also cause nasty latency
[16:54:48] <SWPadnos> GPU, not CPU
[16:54:52] <danimal_garage> ah
[16:55:01] <danimal_garage> thanks
[16:55:10] <Connor> which might also explain issues you've been having with other stuff to danimal_garage
[16:55:11] <SWPadnos> are you using the VESA driver, or some Intel thing?
[16:55:19] <danimal_garage> vesa
[17:01:31] <danimal_garage> hmm
[17:02:03] <danimal_garage> why am i the only one with this issue on this board lol
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[17:07:56] <mrsunshine> hah got the touchscreen working =)
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[17:27:58] <mrsunshine> is there any touchscreen "compat" gui with 3d view to use with emc2?
[17:28:07] <mrsunshine> found the "touchy" but no 3d view ?
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[18:00:00] <skunkworks> mrsunshine: in the developement version - there is some gladevcp work where someone added a tab to touchy with a bunch of axis like views in it.
[18:00:32] <mrsunshine> hmm ok
[18:07:05] <mrsunshine> 12" touchscreen for the mill is real nice =)
[18:07:31] <mrsunshine> its starting to get complete now, and it goes for 12V so it runs from the internal powersupply of the PC .. just 1 cable, not an extra for the monitor =)
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[18:18:51] <skunkworks> mrsunshine: http://imagebin.org/141688
[18:19:13] * skunkworks misses imagebin.ca
[18:19:34] <Connor> That's nice.
[18:19:54] <mrsunshine> hmm, got an IR remote control with trackball and stuff on it today, think its possible to interface it to emc somehow? :)
[18:20:00] <Connor> I have a USB Monitor I want to use, but, can't get the video to work right with 10.04
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[18:22:42] <bill20r3> usb monitor? crazy talk!
[18:23:43] <Connor> nah, they're pretty cool.
[18:23:53] <Connor> Great for using for widgets and stuff.
[18:25:39] <bill20r3> what brand/model is it? a Mimo?
[18:25:48] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmM4XpnJ3lQ
[18:25:51] <Connor> No, DoubleSight.
[18:26:14] <Connor> They have a touch screen version of it too
[18:26:31] <bill20r3> works on (non RTAI) linux ok?
[18:26:59] <Connor> I've had it on my desktop, but, only by itself.. had issues trying to run dual head ati video cards with it.
[18:27:08] <Connor> what's the mini ladder in the background on that video for ?
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[18:27:35] <bill20r3> elves.
[18:27:56] <skunkworks> heh - cncready - they have been converting a few machines with emc
[18:28:27] <Connor> That thing is huge.
[18:28:37] <bill20r3> connor, which model do you have?
[18:28:48] <Connor> the 9" non touch screen.
[18:29:52] <Connor> They all use the same USB driver.. link view or something.. I cant' remember
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[18:31:32] <skunkworks> anonimasu: !
[18:31:34] <anonimasu> wow this place's grown alot
[18:31:41] <anonimasu> long time no see!
[18:31:49] <skunkworks> keeping busy?
[18:31:55] <anonimasu> extremely
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[18:32:25] <skunkworks> heh
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[18:32:51] <anonimasu> keeping busy with school and everything else
[18:33:37] <skunkworks> nice :)
[18:33:59] <skunkworks> still running emc on your mill?
[18:36:43] <Tom_itx> so apparently he hung out here too ehh?
[18:38:33] <Tom_itx> anonimasu, i'm in for a bit now
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[18:50:37] <skunkworks> anonimasu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[18:51:23] <anonimasu> only on the oxyfurl table
[18:51:32] <skunkworks> anonimasu: ah
[18:51:35] <anonimasu> Tom_itx: no time for me gotta fight ugs nx
[18:51:53] <anonimasu> gonna run it on the little mill but I need to make a new y axis for that one
[18:52:00] <anonimasu> :/
[18:52:03] <skunkworks> I thought you had a mill that you wanted to put a high speed spindle on... or am I thinking of someone else?
[18:52:07] <anonimasu> yeah that's the one
[18:52:16] <skunkworks> ah
[18:52:37] <anonimasu> I got a cnc lathe too, but it needs paint and new motors
[18:53:35] <skunkworks> neat
[18:58:05] <anonimasu> gotta run got 5 hours of fighting crappy cad program ahead
[18:58:23] <anonimasu> alibre is like 12 million times better and 12 times cheaper
[18:58:41] <skunkworks> heh - sorry to hear that.
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[19:04:58] <danimal_garage> would a bad monitor cable cause issues with my video driver?
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[19:05:34] <danimal_garage> or is that a bit of a stretch?
[19:06:03] <bill20r3> sounds stretchy to me.
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[19:13:55] <SWPadnos> danimal_garage, iffy, but may be possible
[19:14:23] <SWPadnos> I believe monitors are part of the hotplug system now, so you can plug a monitor into a second port and have it available
[19:15:00] <SWPadnos> so there may be some autodetection (using DDC data) that gets done when the card/driver detect a change in what's connected
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[19:22:03] <danimal_garage> SWPadnos, thanks. Only reason i ask is because i was getting that edid error
[19:22:45] <danimal_garage> i had to do nomodeset in grub (i think) to get rid of it
[19:36:49] <PCW> Sebastian: around?
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[20:16:24] <danimal_garage> it looks like linux thinks my computer is a laptop
[20:16:56] <danimal_garage> in display settings, it shows 2 displays, an unknown (the one i'm using), and laptop
[20:19:05] <danimal_garage> well, at least with the new svga cable, the screen doesnt get fuzzy when i turn my spindle on
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[20:24:36] <skunkworks> danimal_garage: check your harddrive for shits and grins.
[20:25:27] <danimal_garage> for what?
[20:25:36] <danimal_garage> other than shits :)
[20:25:55] <skunkworks> under administation - there is disk utillity
[20:26:07] <danimal_garage> ah ok
[20:26:15] <skunkworks> click on your hd and see if you can look at the smart data
[20:27:02] <danimal_garage> everything is either good or n/a
[20:27:09] <danimal_garage> it says disk is healthy
[20:27:13] <skunkworks> great - then never mind :)
[20:27:36] Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
[20:27:36] <danimal_garage> thanks though, i didnt know about that
[20:28:39] <danimal_garage> i remember on an older version of ubuntu, i was able to select my monitor's model somehow. i wonder if i can still do that, and if it would help
[20:29:09] <danimal_garage> i cant remember how it was done, but i had to because it wouldnt let me pick the right resolution back then
[20:29:31] <skunkworks> I remember that also - seems it was something you had to install
[20:29:35] <skunkworks> or activate
[20:29:50] <danimal_garage> yea
[20:30:07] <danimal_garage> the resolution was fine out of the box with 10.04 though
[20:30:12] <skunkworks> right
[20:30:45] Tom_L is now known as Tom_itx
[20:31:38] <danimal_garage> it's interesting that the new svga cable fixed my distorted screen when the spindle was on
[20:31:45] <danimal_garage> i wonder if the cable was indeed bad
[20:32:09] <Tom_itx> more than likely the pins were oxidized and needed to be wiggled
[20:32:41] <danimal_garage> tried that
[20:32:52] <Tom_itx> i've had that happen a few times
[20:32:59] <danimal_garage> it used to be REALLY bad when the servo drives were near the monitor
[20:33:10] <danimal_garage> it would get all wavy
[20:33:25] <Tom_itx> run a gnd to the servo case on each one
[20:33:33] <Tom_itx> and shielded wire to them
[20:33:39] <danimal_garage> i did
[20:34:22] <danimal_garage> the wiring for the servos came with them, it's all factory stuff
[20:34:31] <danimal_garage> sheilded and whatnot
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[20:41:58] <Jyrki> Hello!!
[20:42:08] <danimal_garage> hi
[20:42:36] <danimal_garage> we'll see in a few minutes if the cable fixed it
[20:42:49] <Jyrki> can someone help me with glade togglebutton related problem??
[20:44:08] <danimal_garage> hmmm i bet if i fix this, i'll be able to run my mill faster
[20:44:52] <danimal_garage> not me Jyrki, you'll have to wait for a guru
[20:44:57] <JT-Shop> Jyrki: the standard practice is to just ask your question, not ask if someone can help
[20:45:04] <Jyrki> when button is "toggled" and mouse is over the button --> button looks like it is untogglrd. This is a problem when you do´n't have mouse on system.... (touchscreen based system)
[20:45:17] <Jyrki> how can i work around it??
[20:45:46] <JT-Shop> Jyrki: using Touchy?
[20:45:56] <Jyrki> no, axis
[20:46:11] <Jyrki> actually I'm building new ui
[20:46:28] <JT-Shop> ah, ok
[20:46:43] <JT-Shop> you might look at Touchy if your building a touch screen ui
[20:47:02] * JT-Shop heads back to the roof
[20:47:03] <Jyrki> I already did --> not satisfactory
[20:47:29] <Jyrki> need totally different approach
[20:47:57] <Jyrki> (I'm doing this for client of mine)
[20:48:32] <Jyrki> I personally am wery happy with axis.....
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[20:50:14] <skunkworks> Jyrki: did you try different 'themes' in ubuntu? I vaugly recall that being an issue with certain themes
[20:50:44] <Jyrki> hey thats great idea. I'll try that
[20:50:48] <Jyrki> thanks
[20:51:55] <Jyrki> btw, how I could share my future UI to others?? I'm not registered developer...
[20:53:46] <JT-Shop> one guy from Germany shares his on the forum, you can submit it also to the developers mailing list
[20:54:13] <Jyrki> ok thanks. I will do that :)
[20:54:17] <Jyrki> Bye
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[20:57:03] <danimal_garage> hmm looks like the cable fixed it
[20:57:10] <danimal_garage> weeeeirrrrdddd
[20:57:51] <danimal_garage> at least this is the first part i've ran since the problem where the machine didnt lose position
[20:58:00] <SWPadnos> yay!
[20:58:24] <SWPadnos> leave the latency test or EMC or something running overnight, see if the unexpected delays come back
[20:58:43] <danimal_garage> will do
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[20:59:03] <danimal_garage> thats so weird that a monitor cable could cause that
[20:59:53] <danimal_garage> the only other thing that was weird was that under the display settings screen, it showed 2 displayes, laptop and unknown
[21:00:18] <danimal_garage> there's only 1 monitor hooked up, and it isnt a laptop
[21:00:33] <SWPadnos> odd
[21:00:35] <danimal_garage> so i turned the laptop one off in the settings
[21:00:41] <danimal_garage> not sure if that helped
[21:01:01] <danimal_garage> yea, i also noticed that there's power settings for a laptop
[21:01:16] <SWPadnos> there's a lot of stuff that happens automatically these days, so there are lots of places where something appears random or unrelated, but can still be a problem
[21:01:45] <danimal_garage> yea
[21:03:43] <Jymmm> like laptop paraports
[21:04:29] <danimal_garage> SWPadnos, do you think having that latency issue would hold back my max velocity?
[21:04:37] <SWPadnos> no
[21:04:40] <SWPadnos> you have a 5i20
[21:04:44] <danimal_garage> as far as not getting ferrors and whatnot
[21:05:13] <danimal_garage> well, it was causing positioning issues apparently
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[21:05:28] <SWPadnos> somewhat possible, since the servo cycle after a long delay, the machine will have moved further than expected
[21:05:50] <danimal_garage> the cable and the display settings are the only thing i changed and so far so good
[21:05:57] <danimal_garage> thats what i was thinking
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[21:07:19] <danimal_garage> at any rate, i just hope it's fixed
[21:08:49] <SWPadnos> that would be good
[21:09:26] <SWPadnos> it's just as likely that the misdetection of the monitor(s) (or whatever caused the system to think it was a laptop) is/was the culprit
[21:09:47] <danimal_garage> sucks when a machine is down durring a busy month
[21:10:03] <danimal_garage> SWPadnos, yea, not sure which it was.
[21:10:30] <danimal_garage> the cable did fix the fuzziness in the monitor when the spindle was on at high rpm's though
[21:11:54] <PCW> maybe noise caused the monitor DDC to generate random interrupts or something (I have NO idea how that hardware works)
[21:12:14] <danimal_garage> yea thats what i was thinking
[21:12:40] <danimal_garage> it did seem to be when the spindle was on when i had the major positioning issues
[21:13:14] <SWPadnos> it would make sense for monitor (re)probing to be a video driver thing, or at least related
[21:13:25] <danimal_garage> yea
[21:13:33] <danimal_garage> i guess i'll find out tonight if it's better
[21:13:43] <danimal_garage> if i dont find out today i mean
[21:13:58] <SWPadnos> it's already better, let's wait and see if it's fixed :)
[21:14:50] <danimal_garage> yea
[21:15:09] <danimal_garage> i'll check it again when this part is done in a minute
[21:15:52] <PCW> Also if its VFD noise causing trouble elsewhere, Ferrite beads on the motor wires (one giant bead around all three wires) really help
[21:16:31] <danimal_garage> good idea
[21:16:55] <danimal_garage> i'll get some when i get a chance
[21:19:01] <danimal_garage> still good
[21:19:26] <danimal_garage> it's definitely better
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[21:21:54] <PCW> ~20KHz 350V square waves into the motor capacitance to ground cause nasty ground bumping
[21:21:56] <PCW> Laird-Signal Integrity Products 28B1122-100. is one we use with success on our BLDC drive
[21:22:36] <danimal_garage> i'm running my spindle at like 120hz, which doesnt help
[21:22:59] <danimal_garage> 220vac at 120hz
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[21:29:04] <PCW> Yes but the bad thin is that the signals out to the motor are basically square waves (at ~2 to 20 KHz depending on the drive)
[21:29:06] <PCW> the sharp edges of the square wave induce large return currents spikes from the motor frame through your whole ground system
[21:29:08] <PCW> the ferrite beads reduce the amplitude of these current spikes by a fairly large factor
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[21:31:38] <micges> PCW: does ferrite beads helps with noise on low voltage like 24V ?
[21:32:01] <Jymmm> yep, look at most monitor cables
[21:32:28] <PCW> For PWM motor signals yes
[21:33:19] <PCW> Probably the bead from a old CRT monitor would help the VFD
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[21:34:41] <PCW> for the VFD you thread the 3 motor wires through the bead (so its a common mode choke) not the motor ground
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[21:36:37] <micges> I see
[21:38:07] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/126058
[21:39:01] <danimal_garage> i dont think a bead from a crt would fit my cable, it's about 3/4" in diameter, at least
[21:39:40] <danimal_garage> how about one of those transformers with the coil wrapped around the ring?
[21:39:55] <danimal_garage> can i use that ring?
[21:40:18] <PCW> Not ideal but you could put it in the motor box (around U/V/W)
[21:41:59] <danimal_garage> still good!
[21:42:03] <danimal_garage> :)
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[22:12:05] <danimal_garage> yea, it's gotta be fixed... i ran a bunch of parts and it's still spot on
[22:16:48] <JT-Shop> nice :)
[22:16:56] <PCW> very wierd, so I guess the lesson is disable anything laptop related and/or dont get noise in your video cable
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[22:41:44] <danimal_garage> PCW, yep! wish i had time to narrow it down between the two, but i cant afford that right now, time-wise
[22:42:43] <Tom_itx> keep them chips flyin
[22:43:05] <danimal_garage> i'm gunna guess and say it's the cable. doesnt make sense that the laptop thing would cause issues when the spindle is on
[22:43:33] <danimal_garage> Tom_itx, yes sir, definitely got some chips flying
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[22:49:13] <kirk_wallace> Can tabs be added to EMC2 2.4.6 (Ub804) AXIS?
[22:49:33] <cradek> no, user-defined tabs aren't in 2.4
[22:50:28] <kirk_wallace> Okay Thanks. Now I know not to try, .. anymore.
[22:54:37] <skunkworks> I will stop after this one - I swear. maybe. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/126062
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[22:56:03] <skunkworks> ^ doesn't that really fly in the face of saying 1ppr is perfectly fine for threading?
[22:56:29] <cradek> sure, but we all know that's just not true
[22:56:41] <skunkworks> heh
[22:57:00] <cradek> (a wise programmer I worked with said: when in doubt, do it right)
[22:57:12] <skunkworks> I like that.
[22:57:23] <Tom_itx> he didn't ever ever work at MS
[22:57:43] <cradek> "the thread looks great, the pitch is only wrong by a few percent" is fine for hobby parts I guess
[22:58:52] <JT-Shop> I made a real pretty 1/4"-16 thread but it still would not fit the nut
[22:59:05] <cradek> heh
[22:59:14] <cradek> try P.05 next time :-)
[22:59:26] <cradek> them fractions is tricky
[22:59:50] <JT-Shop> my subroutine I just enter the TPI but you still have to put the right number in there :)
[22:59:57] <skunkworks> heh
[23:00:03] <skunkworks> trying for 20?
[23:00:11] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:00:19] <skunkworks> only off by a few percent ;)
[23:00:27] <JT-Shop> and 16 don't look anything like 20 but it was pretty
[23:00:35] <JT-Shop> lol
[23:00:46] * JT-Shop goes back to the roof
[23:02:05] <kirk_wallace> While working on my serial Modbus application, I would get an occasional crash while loading the component where it seems that CR's were sent to stdio in an endless loop. A wild guess is that the serial port doesn't quite load propery, then my component does its polling loop and somehow sends CR's to stdio. Maybe? and how to fix it so I don't have to pull the power plug to reset?
[23:02:39] <cradek> this is a userland hal component?
[23:03:11] <kirk_wallace> Yes, but with rt like wsum
[23:03:43] <kirk_wallace> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?ModIO
[23:03:48] <cradek> wait is it realtime or userland?
[23:04:14] <cradek> holy crap what a panel
[23:05:21] <cradek> ok, it's definitely userland
[23:05:43] <cradek> that makes it easy then. when it's freaking out, attach the debugger and see why it's doing what it's doing.
[23:05:46] <ds3> anyone know why backlash compensation seems to be done in the controller side (i.e. Mach) instead of on the CAM side? With manual machining, one moves in one direction to work around backlash...should CAM be able to plan moves like that?
[23:06:28] <cradek> yes it could, but part of the joy of cnc is you can make arcs - there's no getting around reversals while cutting.
[23:06:53] <skunkworks> wow - that is a lot of i/o :)
[23:06:57] <cradek> but if you're spot drilling a bunch of holes, for instance, you could certainly approach them all the same way.
[23:07:01] <ds3> but don't most higher end CAM software use G01's to do the arcs?
[23:07:35] <cradek> ds3: no, but crappy CAM software does - but the answer is still the same, even if it does
[23:07:35] <skunkworks> kirk_wallace: what kind of update are you getting (how fast) is it polling?
[23:08:07] <kirk_wallace> cradek: Oops. Another thing to learn about. I should have kept my mouth shut, but looking into a debugger might help? Thanks
[23:08:16] <cradek> skunkworks: looks like 20Hz by default
[23:08:20] <ds3> cradek: but it doesn't change the fact that CAM could do it instead of having the controller or is there something else I am missing that'd favor controller over CAM?
[23:08:59] <skunkworks> cradek: interesting. (how did you find that)
[23:09:07] <cradek> skunkworks: it's documented in C
[23:09:09] <ds3> getting down to EMC... is there a way to get EMC to attempt to do backlash comp?
[23:09:20] <cradek> ds3: yes, by turning it on
[23:09:21] <skunkworks> cradek: heh - thanks
[23:09:27] <cradek> brb
[23:09:34] <ds3> cradek: new feature?
[23:09:53] <skunkworks> ds3: emc has had backlash comp for quite a long time
[23:10:09] <ds3> skunkworks: okay, stupid question then - how does one turn it on?
[23:10:20] <ds3> stepconf don't seem to show it unless I missed it entirely
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[23:10:32] <skunkworks> you could also do leadscrew mapping (which could also be used for backlash comp) but you would need accurite home locations
[23:10:53] <ds3> this machine has no leadscrews ;)
[23:10:57] <skunkworks> ds3: don't know about stepconf.. never used it. but you can put it in the ini files.
[23:11:24] <ds3> ah, okay... that should be enough info for me to search for it. thanks.
[23:11:53] <skunkworks> ds3: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:[AXIS]-section
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[23:13:06] <skunkworks> leadscrew mapping is a relative term - if you are using chains or belts - I am sure it could be used to take up errors over the whole distance
[23:13:34] <ds3> got it
[23:13:39] <skunkworks> (this is all academic - I have not used either backlash comp or leadscrew mapping) ;)
[23:13:59] <ds3> just didn't realize how bad the backlash was til I found I was making parallelograms instead of rectangles :(
[23:14:47] <skunkworks> are you sure you have backlash - sound more like your axis isn't perpendicular...
[23:15:05] <skunkworks> (when I think of parallelograms)
[23:15:46] <ds3> that's what I thought - so I did the manual machining thing using MDI - cut a rectangle using purely monotonic moves; any reversals are done by going way pass the intended point so I always approach in the same monotonic direction
[23:16:08] <ds3> the results seems to be rectangular (less the corners which got fried due to slow typing)
[23:17:19] <skunkworks> I would get a dial indicator and measure your backlash..
[23:17:49] <ds3> if the machine was rigid enough that the dial indicator won't push it around... :/
[23:18:38] <skunkworks> well - if a dial indicator will push it around - you have problems :)
[23:18:52] <ds3> this is a laser, all I am moving around is a mirror
[23:19:08] <ds3> so rigidity isn't a big factor... photons don't have that much force ;)
[23:20:29] <skunkworks> heh
[23:20:45] <Tom_itx> or a last word, it'll get you a little closer
[23:21:16] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/126066
[23:22:04] <ds3> just to avoid confusing things... "dial indicator" - that's the one with a long plunger and 1" of travel; not a "dial test indicator" with much smaller travel and a tiny arm that swings,
[23:22:07] <ds3> right?
[23:22:50] <skunkworks> well - either - but I was talking about the plunger one/.
[23:23:27] <ds3> those seems to have a slightly higher force
[23:24:17] <ds3> another data point, the parallelogram shapes were cut by going all the way around in a clockwise fashion which would require taking up the lash in 2 legs
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[23:28:11] <skunkworks> is the 7i47s supported?
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[23:38:01] <andypugh> Catching up: skunkworks not a lot of IO compared to a full set of 7i64s on a 5i23. That would be 576 inputs and 576 outputs.
[23:38:32] <skunkworks> andypugh: your patch looks neat. (if I understand it right - makes things even more flexable)
[23:39:00] <andypugh> It seems that Mach3 threading assumes a constant spindle speed, and simply starts a constant-speed pass when it sees the index.
[23:39:34] <PCW> Yes 7I47S is supported
[23:41:33] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/123292-pm45_cnc_build_-_emc2-2.html#post908003
[23:41:52] <skunkworks> pcw: thanks!
[23:42:25] <skunkworks> (someone already purchased it the hardware supposedly)
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[23:44:22] <PCW> actually 32 7I64s is 768 inputs and 768 outputs (I guess without changing anything 2048 inputs plus 2048 outputs is the sserial limit assuming the current ~10KHz max update rate)
[23:47:15] <andypugh> But the 5i23 only supports 24 sserial devices, doesn't it?
[23:48:22] <SWPadnos> andypugh, that's close. actually, what it does is assume that the speed will never go above the unloaded speed it sees at the beginning, and it does pulse skipping to keep synchronized with the measured slowdown
[23:48:29] <andypugh> You need a smart-serial-mux to split each one into eight more. Then you can individually communicate with nanotech grey goo.
[23:48:37] <SWPadnos> but each revolution itself is considered to be at the same speed as whatever was last measured
[23:49:41] <andypugh> (My last comment was inspired by http://www.xkcd.com/865/ )
[23:50:22] <SWPadnos> the really funny thing (to me) is that the driver actually creates a buffer that is essentially shifted out the parallel port like a giant serial shift register, but some clocks are skipped if a spindle slowdown has been detected
[23:53:32] <skunkworks> how does emc do it? (1ppr)
[23:53:56] <PCW> The 5I23 can support 32 SSERIALs with the right daughter cards
[23:53:57] <SWPadnos> there's a velocity estimate that can still be reasonably accurate with only 1 PPR input
[23:54:15] <SWPadnos> the velocity estimate is used to plan the next position
[23:54:31] <SWPadnos> if you have a real velocity input, that can be used instead
[23:54:57] <skunkworks> I know it must work well - steve b switched to emc because of it ;)
[23:55:08] <SWPadnos> the Mach driver (from the thread you linked to a few days ago) actually makes a several hundred millisecond buffer of bits, and shifts those out every interrupt
[23:55:10] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:55:17] <SWPadnos> he had an encoder, didn't he?
[23:55:30] <PCW> I would think a 1PPR velocity estimate would be pretty poor at low speeds
[23:55:34] <SWPadnos> remarked about the lack of 1PPR, but put an encoder on and was very happt
[23:55:49] <andypugh> You definitely can cut threads with one ppr using emc2, I set somebody up with it via the forum and he was happy.
[23:55:49] <skunkworks> could be.. :)
[23:55:55] <SWPadnos> the estimate is reasonable, but of course it doesn't help if you want to e.g. thread a square bar
[23:56:05] <SWPadnos> err, happy
[23:56:13] <cradek> it's fascinating that people come to emc because mach can't cut a thread, and when you tell them they need an encoder, they whine that they didn't need an encoder with mach
[23:57:02] <SWPadnos> the thing that works in favor of Mach (and EMC using 1PPR) is that the finish pass(es) are generally pretty light cuts, and should also generally present an even load to the spindle - that makes them "clean up" just fine
[23:57:07] <skunkworks> ah - so emc updates the trajectory ever servo cycle - with the average of spindle speed... (calculated from the index)
[23:57:20] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,16/id,6911/lang,english/#6952
[23:57:26] <SWPadnos> no, with the current spindle velocity input
[23:57:46] <SWPadnos> which will be worst with 1PPR feedback, better with a real encoder, and possibly best with a tach and A/D
[23:57:48] <andypugh> EMC2 with 1 PPR.
[23:57:49] * JT-Shop just did one of his favorite things
[23:57:54] <SWPadnos> (maybe not enough better than a good encoder though)
[23:58:00] <SWPadnos> s/enough/much/
[23:59:03] <PCW> well a 2 wire 4 count/rev encoder+index should be about 16x better than 1PPR (assuming constant supplied motor torque between updates)
[23:59:03] <skunkworks> right - but for 1pp - you need to use the (what is it called) velocity estimate pin?
[23:59:17] <cradek> the software encoder has interpolated position
[23:59:29] <skunkworks> that's it :)
[23:59:35] <cradek> it uses sub-period timestamps to make its best guess
[23:59:36] <SWPadnos> oh right - it's actually position that's used in EMC (thanks cradek) :)