#emc | Logs for 2011-03-04

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[00:10:23] <L84Supper> those ornamental carved wood pieces could be passed off as hand carved wood sculptures
[00:11:26] <Valen> http://failblog.org/2011/03/03/epic-fail-photos-traffic-sign-fail-2/
[00:12:24] <L84Supper> heh.. I love those and also the BIOS error messages on ATM's
[00:12:40] <Valen> I like the windows 98 ATM error messages
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[00:13:55] <cradek> failblog fail: http://failblog.org/upcoming/?pid=99784
[00:15:19] <Tom_itx> whether to wire these steppers as unipolar, bipolar series or bipolar parallel
[00:16:51] <cradek> usually bipolar parallel is the winner
[00:17:00] <Tom_itx> yeah probably so
[00:17:01] <cradek> unipolar is usually the clear loser
[00:17:11] <Tom_itx> i don't think my current drivers are big enough for that
[00:17:17] <Tom_itx> until i can get some others
[00:17:36] <L84Supper> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/4491403459_8e47fdfd18.jpg
[00:17:45] <Tom_itx> bipolar series is likely what i'll do until i can get better drivers
[00:17:56] <L84Supper> BIOS development genius
[00:18:17] <Tom_itx> :)
[00:20:54] <Tom_itx> does higher inductance limit the step frequency?
[00:21:01] <Tom_itx> i'm guessing yes
[00:21:45] <JT-Shop> Dang I'm tired but I have shingles up to the ridge now
[00:23:04] <JT-Shop> ridge cap and a few small minor things and my roofing career is over :)
[00:23:11] <JT-Shop> for now
[00:23:28] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:23:43] <Tom_itx> i used that roll stuff when i made my patio
[00:24:08] <JT-Shop> how did that work out?
[00:24:22] <Tom_itx> it's great stuff
[00:24:36] <Tom_itx> i used the underlayment with it
[00:24:41] <Tom_itx> both are self adhesive
[00:24:59] <JT-Shop> cool, I've never used it before
[00:25:02] <Tom_itx> it's more for a flat roof
[00:25:08] <Tom_itx> it's good stuff
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[00:26:47] <JT-Shop> ah ok, I know what you are talking about now
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[00:28:51] <Valen> what oil should we use for bearings and ballscrews, the manufacturer of the screws say "light machine oil" but you go to an oil place and they have NFI what that means
[00:29:12] <Tom_itx> think sewing machine
[00:29:42] <Valen> doesn't really narrow it down at the oil place
[00:29:50] <Tom_itx> 10wt
[00:29:54] <Tom_itx> 20wt
[00:29:57] <Tom_itx> non detergent
[00:30:25] <Tom_itx> brb
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[00:31:56] <JT-Shop> I use spindle oil for that kind of stuff
[00:32:13] <JT-Shop> http://www.mcmaster.com/#spindle-oil/=ba1cvb
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[00:32:39] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/patio/patio_index.php
[00:32:44] <Tom_itx> pics aren't that good
[00:34:48] <Tom_itx> shortly after that a hail storm gave me a new roof on the rest of it
[00:35:27] <JT-Shop> looks good to me
[00:35:40] <JT-Shop> did you have to have a small pitch on the roof?
[00:35:44] <Tom_itx> yeah
[00:35:57] <Tom_itx> it drains good
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[00:39:01] <JT-Shop> did you just join the forum yesterday?
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[00:39:32] <Tom_itx> yup
[00:39:46] <JT-Shop> your link is broken :/
[00:39:52] <Tom_itx> not now
[00:39:56] <Tom_itx> stupid dyndns
[00:40:08] <JT-Shop> heh
[00:40:12] <Tom_itx> you might have to refresh
[00:41:02] <JT-Shop> can't find it now someone else has joined and pushed you out of the latest member spot
[00:41:29] <Tom_itx> same as above
[00:43:12] <JT-Shop> I am tired LOL
[00:43:46] <Tom_itx> yup, other than getting my steppers in, this day sucks
[00:44:26] * JT-Shop wanders inside to rest now
[00:44:33] <JT-Shop> talk to you later
[00:44:39] <Tom_itx> ok
[00:45:09] <mozmck> I'm not seeing anyone on the user map. is it working?
[00:45:31] <JT-Shop> seems to work better with IE yuck
[00:45:55] <mozmck> heh, I don't use IE anywhere.
[00:46:09] <Tom_itx> ok quick q.
[00:46:23] <Tom_itx> on a dual boot is it better to install win or linux first?
[00:46:29] <mozmck> win
[00:47:15] <PCW> I used to think IE was that was the main virus gateway (i dont use it) but now I think its anything adobe as well
[00:47:30] <mozmck> The best is to leave part of the drive empty when you install windows.
[00:47:39] <Tom_itx> i plan to
[00:48:10] <mozmck> Then use that for the linux partition. Linux does do a remarkably good job resizing the windows partition though.
[00:48:35] <Tom_itx> the live cd doesn't take that much space
[00:48:47] <mozmck> If you install win second, it over-writes the linux bootloader and it's somewhat of a pain to get it back.
[00:49:24] <mozmck> Install linux second, and it's usually painless (I've never had any problems, but you never know).
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[00:49:59] <mozmck> no, but you want a bit of space for logs and files etc.
[00:50:20] <Tom_itx> 320G, i'll go 75/25
[00:51:03] <Tom_itx> that should be more than enough
[00:51:40] <mozmck> yep
[00:51:59] <Tom_itx> i have a ssd for it but i wanna set this drive up too
[00:52:20] <Tom_itx> the ssd was more a curiosity than anything
[00:52:27] <Tom_itx> i can always use it as a backup
[00:52:42] <Tom_itx> i tend to use spare drives as backups over any other method
[00:55:00] <cv> nice to have a spare SSD!
[00:56:11] <Tom_itx> it booted ubuntu in 10 sec
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[00:56:33] <Tom_itx> on my new atom board
[00:56:59] <cv> fast
[00:57:13] <Tom_itx> so far i'm happy with it
[00:57:33] <cv> Amazing what can be done IMO
[00:57:42] <cv> It all comes from rock and sand
[00:58:05] <cv> we turn rock into storage devices
[00:58:41] <Valen> ssds are made of win
[00:58:56] <cv> win?
[00:59:01] <Valen> awesome
[00:59:13] <Valen> though be sure any ssd you get supports TRIM or at least ata security erase
[00:59:19] <Valen> otherwise they get slower and slower
[00:59:35] <Tom_itx> i think it supports trim
[00:59:35] <cv> i heard they burn out after some time
[01:04:46] <Valen> trim and windows 7 or linux i think
[01:04:52] <Valen> xp doesn't support it
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[01:24:40] <Connor> Anyone done any PID with Aurdino and phase chopping for AC control ?
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[02:13:57] <MattyMatt> Valen I tried to buy "machine oil" for my lathe but they had no idea and offered me 3-in-1
[02:14:55] <MattyMatt> sewing machine oil was traditionally whale oil. that's only for extra fine stuff. it's synthetic these days. it's also called hair-clipper oil
[02:16:46] <MattyMatt> I think it's 2 separate kinds you use on lathes. light stuff for the leadscrews etc, and heavy stuff for the ways
[02:19:01] <MattyMatt> yow, grab a tube of real dead whale :) http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Singer-Sewing-Machine-Oil-motor-lubricant-w-box-/380321335445
[02:24:52] <MattyMatt> here's both kinds of modern stuff http://cgi.ebay.com/1-PINT-MOBIL-WAY-OIL-SPINDLE-OIL-MILL-LATHE-GRINDER-/290409746418
[02:25:54] <MattyMatt> Shell do the stuff that smells right to me, I'll invest in some of that one day (I'm using 3-in-1 for now)
[02:26:31] <Tom_itx> baby seal tears work pretty good
[02:26:54] <MattyMatt> if you boil them down while they're alive
[02:28:08] <MattyMatt> actually afaics, sewing machines stopped using whale oil decades ago, but hair clippers still demanded it until recently when a good synthetic substitute was made (with nanospheres etc)
[02:30:00] <MattyMatt> also torpedo nosecones. they needed a close sliding fit
[02:31:15] <MattyMatt> it was 80s or 90s when I read an article about how they'd finally made a substitute for that
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[02:57:11] <elmo40> same with Big Pharma... there is a natural source for everything, though you can only make money on the synthetic patent ;)
[03:04:50] <MattyMatt> tell that to the japanese fleet
[03:05:47] <MattyMatt> there's a UK shop selling ice cream made from human milk. they got shut down by Health & Safety in a day
[03:06:47] <Valen> apart from being weird I don't see why if it was pasturised properly
[03:07:04] <Valen> i mean it kinda makes sense in some ways, no other animal drinks another animals milk
[03:07:24] <Jymmm> Valen: Actally, that's not true
[03:07:30] <Valen> orly
[03:07:42] <Valen> its not my "cup of tea" to be sure
[03:07:49] <MattyMatt> yeah it's probably healthier. the concern was viruses that survive pasteurisation
[03:07:50] <Jymmm> a dog adopted a pigglet that suckled her
[03:08:13] <Valen> Jymmm: yah, one dog once, not like 7 billion people drinking cows milk ;-P
[03:08:31] <Valen> MattyMatt: that's why I wouldn't do it
[03:08:35] <Jymmm> No thee are other stories like that as well.
[03:08:44] <Valen> not 6 billion of them
[03:09:02] <Valen> not "habitually" they are news because they are unusual
[03:09:09] <MattyMatt> we eat bee shit too. humans are just weird
[03:09:11] <Valen> and usually a human has been involved
[03:09:32] <Valen> that and all the other guys who have had kids have tried the wifes milk and report it to be rather foul lol
[03:10:16] <MattyMatt> it's rather gross anyway
[03:10:37] <Valen> one guy, notorious caffeine addict needed milk for morning coffee, had no cow milk, saw milk for baby in the fridge and went "why not?" put it in his cup, took a sip, drove down the road and got milk
[03:10:45] <MattyMatt> it might be delicious icecream, but you couldn't help thinking about it :)
[03:11:26] <Valen> virus shouldn't make it through pasteurisation, was kinda the point i thought
[03:12:08] <MattyMatt> viruses can and do. BSE can survive beef being cooked to charcoal
[03:12:17] <Valen> BSE isnt a virus
[03:12:22] <Valen> its a misfolded protien
[03:12:34] <Valen> though if you charcoal it (literally) it'd be gone
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[03:13:26] <elmo40> MattyMatt: actually, bee spit, not shit.
[03:13:38] <elmo40> they use their tongues to stir the nectar
[03:13:46] <elmo40> and fan it with their wings
[03:13:47] <MattyMatt> I'm not clear on the distinction between a virus and a prion, so I'll takle your word for it
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[03:14:56] <MattyMatt> anyway, back on topic, I wouldn't lubricate your ballscrews with milk or honey, from any source :)
[03:15:53] <elmo40> that didnt sound right.
[03:16:47] <MattyMatt> and oil wells are a natural source, so there
[03:18:03] <MattyMatt> I was just wondering when we'd have magnetic bearings for leadscrews, but that's almost what linear steppers are already
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[03:20:56] <Valen> virus is a string of RNA with some bits attached, it takes over your cells DNA copying mechanism to make more copies of it self and thus spreads, the malformed protien in BSE is odd in that it affects the formation of further copies being made of itself in the cell, and as the protiens leak into other cells the infection spreads, one is malicious, the other one is like a 2 year old in a legal department, it doesn't mean to cause prob
[03:21:01] <Valen> thats my understaning anyway
[03:22:26] <elmo40> but doesnt it die when out of a host ?
[03:22:47] <Valen> its not "alive" (niether are viruses really)
[03:22:59] <PCW> Theres some evidence that BSEs survive ashing
[03:23:01] <Valen> it will decay to the point it stops working though
[03:24:10] <Valen> PCW i spose it depends how thorough you are about it. Its really a pretty minor concern, given the exposure and the number of cases you should be more worried about getting hit by a rock from space lol
[03:24:21] <Valen> not saying that eating it is a good idea
[03:24:33] <Valen> but then feeding any animal to itself is a bad idea
[03:29:48] <PCW> Especially bits 'o sheep to other ruminants given the high prevalence of scrapie in (non aussy) sheep
[03:32:05] <PCW> Nice quote from CDC
[03:32:07] <PCW> "Cooking cannot be guaranteed to sterilize BSE infectivity: experiments using different strains of spongiform encephalopathy agents have shown only partial inactivation at temperatures as high as 350°C (662°F) (2,3)."
[03:32:36] <cradek> that's quite a grill
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[03:35:35] <PCW> There's sketchier evidence of transmission from 600C ashed TSEs some think this is via a inorganic template of the mal-folded protein
[03:36:32] <PCW> a little OT sorry
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[11:48:35] <mrsunshine> limit switches, what is more accurate, a switch, something like the homemade touch probe (4 balls and a pin resting on them, if either ball loses contact its tripped) or opto interruptors ...
[11:48:58] <jthornton> micro switches are what I use
[11:50:36] <archivist> depends what can effect accuracy, eg dirt on the switch actuator or item it contacts, optos have problems too
[11:50:49] <archivist> light and dirt
[11:50:59] <mrsunshine> archivist, well i was thinking encapsulation ala http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/MillStuff/CNC/Enclosure/HomeSwitch/P1011808.JPG
[11:51:08] <mrsunshine> sure dirt can be a factor there also but
[11:52:16] <jthornton> that is how my limit switches are set up on my Hardinge CHNC more or less
[11:52:23] <archivist> repeatability spec of the switch too
[11:52:44] <mrsunshine> archivist, the opto interruptors i find have 0.15 or something like that
[11:52:47] <mrsunshine> and imo thats quite bad
[11:54:40] <archivist> cheap micro switches seem to perform better that you would expect, depends on accuracy you want
[11:55:30] <mrsunshine> well sure its only a home location, reset the table more like it
[11:55:47] <jthornton> here is how I did it on my plasma cutter http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Plasma006.jpg
[11:55:50] <mrsunshine> but its good with good accuracy as if something goes wrong, power failiure or something, i can continue on the same piece =)
[11:58:12] <archivist> I checked a micro switch with a micrometer and was surprised (micrometer resolution 4 microns), didnt write down results though
[11:59:13] <jthornton> if your touching off the part first it won't matter how accurate your home is
[12:00:02] <mrsunshine> jthornton, ahh might be true :P
[12:00:26] <jthornton> on my VMC I have a 1/2 dowel in one holder and I move to a X position 1/4" away from X0 and slide the part up to the dowel
[12:01:43] <jthornton> on my BP series 1 with Anilam CNC it has no home switches so I just use an edge finder for X and Y and the dowel for Z height it is real fast to set up
[12:02:52] <mrsunshine> jthornton, i was thinking of having home 0, 0, something then have the tool probe there =)
[12:03:01] <mrsunshine> so when i switch tool it can just go straight down and probe the length
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[12:15:31] <mrsunshine> dont know if my tool setter was any good tho, as it seems it passes current fromt he bottom to the "probe" plate, if not having a cable over tot he actual tool that current will pass throught spindle bearings etc also :/
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[14:34:53] <Jymmm> How difficult is it to learn Ladder and programming PLC's?
[14:36:49] <skunkworks> Jymmm: you can run classic ladder in emc2 which would give you an idea of how ladder works.
[14:36:56] <skunkworks> cradek: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/125882
[14:37:50] <Jymmm> skunkworks: and PLC's ?
[14:39:42] <JT-Shop> easy to hard Jymmm
[14:39:44] <mhaberler> clever idea on determining spindle stability
[14:39:57] <skunkworks> plc's are self contained. You use software on the computer to generate the ladder then download it into the plc. The main thing you need to figure out is ladder in general - then the plc differences are trivial.
[14:40:11] <Jymmm> k
[14:40:38] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I/O and basic logic is pretty simple
[14:40:59] <JT-Shop> write your program in pseudo code first
[14:41:15] <JT-Shop> if input 1 is on and input 3 is off turn on output 0
[14:41:18] <JT-Shop> etc
[14:41:42] <JT-Shop> then you can translate that to code
[14:42:25] <JT-Shop> -----|1|-----|/3|-----(0)
[14:42:30] <ATtiny8> but only if output 1 is not on unless output 2 is also on
[14:42:51] <Jymmm> Yeah, basic AND/OR/NAND gates
[14:43:23] <ATtiny8> and timers, and one-shots and set/reset vs. coils
[14:44:08] <ATtiny8> and how to get back to a runnable state after teh guy leans against the e-stop
[14:44:08] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: what kind of PLC are you wanting to program?
[14:44:17] <JT-Shop> LOL
[14:44:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: no idea, just trying to get a general feel
[14:45:01] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I usually see a few at the surplus store once in a while for cheap
[14:45:08] <JT-Shop> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/CLICK_Series_PLCs_%28Stackable_Micro_Brick%29/PLC_Units
[14:45:32] <JT-Shop> unless you know what it is you may just be throwing your money away
[14:45:50] <skunkworks> isn't the main issue - the cost of the programming software?
[14:45:59] <JT-Shop> sometimes
[14:46:07] <skunkworks> they seem to have that problem at work
[14:46:22] <JT-Shop> Automation Direct Click PLC has free software
[14:46:24] <ATtiny8> depends on the plc mfg &sw
[14:46:26] <skunkworks> they are still running a dos version for some..
[14:46:40] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: good to know
[14:47:02] <JT-Shop> so for $70 and a 24vdc power supply you can have a PLC
[14:47:07] <JT-Shop> and program it
[14:47:16] <ATtiny8> cool
[14:47:38] <JT-Shop> power supply $30
[14:47:40] <ATtiny8> I got a GE/Fanuc PLC on ebay for $60 with cables & SW
[14:48:25] <JT-Shop> I usually use Panasonic, Automation Direct and Allen Bradley just depends on the customer
[14:48:58] <ATtiny8> I like AB, but 99% of the time we use GE
[14:51:11] <Jymmm> Culd I use a PLC as a stepper pulse generator?
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[14:52:09] <ATtiny8> most PLC's have plug in axis positioning cards you can use
[14:52:33] <ATtiny8> but, you would never get enough speed out of normal plc digitla IO to be useful for pulse train generation
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[14:53:26] <Jymmm> I'm talking an automated machine sorta thing. Move X 5", wait 5s, return to 0, repeat.
[14:54:22] <Jymmm> move 1", drill, move another 1", drill, etc.
[14:54:31] <SWPadnos> it might take 5 seconds to do the move also
[14:54:55] <Jymmm> Ok, so use a uC for the step gen then
[14:54:58] <SWPadnos> most PLCs have a maximum scan rate of 1000 Hz, and they slow down when they have to do more calculations
[14:55:03] <ATtiny8> you could set a bit telling something to move for you, but you wouldn't generate the pulse train through the plc
[14:55:24] <SWPadnos> a microcontroller would very likely be a better idea
[14:55:27] <SWPadnos> have fun. bbl
[14:55:38] <Jymmm> buh bye SWPadnos
[14:55:57] <ATtiny8> I like Compumotor indexers for that
[14:56:17] <Jymmm> Eh, if I have to use a uC for step gen, might as well use it for the whole thing.
[14:57:20] <Jymmm> wth is "Reset Coil" ?
[14:57:33] <Jymmm> return to default state?
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[14:59:50] <cradek> skunkworks: 1) "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow" - too bad in this case, and 2) he really oughta use version control if he loses track of changes and releases
[15:00:04] <skunkworks232> heh
[15:00:32] <cradek> skunkworks: it's very weird that he's pretty much asking for help debugging the code that nobody but him has access to (not even brian, if I understand right)
[15:00:50] <skunkworks232> that is what I understand also
[15:01:38] <mrsunshine> damn i so do not regret i got a 1 degree tapered endmill
[15:01:47] <mrsunshine> making casting patterns is a breeze =)
[15:02:06] <mrsunshine> just cut the pattern, no taper grinding etc needed (flat petterns that is) and voila =)
[15:02:55] <mrsunshine> tho the piece got lose on me, luckuly it didnt break the endmill :P
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[15:03:47] <Lbaroudi> hi there
[15:04:27] <Lbaroudi> can someone look into this forum issue and help me
[15:04:36] <Lbaroudi> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,38/id,7469/lang,english/?mosmsg=This+thread+has+been+added+to+your+favorites.
[15:04:50] <ATtiny8> I have a part with an internal cut that my CAM software insists on generating that path last
[15:05:25] <MattyMatt> manually edit the gcode?
[15:05:51] <ATtiny8> I could, but that kind of detracts from me having spent money for the CAM software
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[15:06:25] <ATtiny8> it is a single profile path. I just wish I could tell it where to start the path
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[15:08:02] <MattyMatt> Lbaroudi: run stepconf and give it the pin layout your breakout board needs
[15:08:58] <ATtiny8> looks like it matches one of the defaults, should work as-is except for e-stop maybe?
[15:09:31] <pcw_home> skunkworks232: got the first part of our pendant/control panel interface working
[15:09:33] <pcw_home> the encoder inputs support 1X mode (which you noticed is not supported by HM2)
[15:09:35] <pcw_home>
[15:10:12] <Lbaroudi> pcw are you talking to me?
[15:10:23] <pcw_home> no
[15:10:29] <Lbaroudi> thanks attiny8
[15:11:02] <Lbaroudi> ATtiny8 what default is that ?
[15:11:40] <Lbaroudi> thanks MattyMatt
[15:11:49] <ATtiny8> Lbaroudi: stepconf has optoins for 2 defaults, like xylotex and sherline or something like that... one of them matches your step/dir
[15:12:08] <skunkworks232> pcw_home: cool@
[15:12:17] <ATtiny8> I'd guess timing might not be optimal, but would probably work to start with
[15:12:22] <Lbaroudi> ok 10x
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[15:13:33] <pcw_home> I guess if you have a 100 PPR dial with detents you want the count to occur between the detents
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[15:22:03] <MattyMatt> I have these cheap mechanical 20 detent switches that do full quadrature cycle per click. unfortunately they lose steps when you crank them even moderately fast
[15:22:11] <mrsunshine> hmm, i wonder if one can make his own flow drill (friction drill) bit =)
[15:22:44] <MattyMatt> out of what? a lump of old brake pad? :)
[15:22:54] <mrsunshine> MattyMatt, was thinking ceramics =)
[15:23:16] <MattyMatt> yeah if you have a kiln then I guess you could make them easily
[15:23:17] <mrsunshine> something like al oxide :P
[15:23:30] <mrsunshine> MattyMatt, gfs mothers sister, whatever that is called has one =)
[15:23:37] <MattyMatt> that'd be my first guess, maybe with some asbestos for toughness
[15:24:04] <MattyMatt> aunt-in-law when you tie the knot :)
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[15:41:54] <SWPadnos_> jthornton, JT-Shop: are you the person who was talking about making a temperature controller for a smoker or something?
[15:42:02] <skunkworks232> pcw_home: what kind of i/o are you putting in the pendant interface?
[15:42:21] <JT-Shop> SWPadnos_: yes
[15:42:54] <SWPadnos_> cool. I think I remember you liking some particular temperature controller from eBay - do you have any recommendations for ones to use or to avoid?
[15:43:04] <SWPadnos_> or maybe not from eBay, whichever :)
[15:43:07] <JT-Shop> I have one now that uses a PLC and a touch screen but I want to make a smaller package with the Ardunio Uno
[15:43:32] <JT-Shop> Auber Instruments if you want to buy one
[15:43:53] <SWPadnos_> cool, thanks
[15:44:16] <SWPadnos_> do they work at any temp range (dependent on sensors and heaters, obviously)?
[15:44:17] <JT-Shop> http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=14&zenid=cf496f92b2d4f15904e4f0efa9722762
[15:44:42] <SWPadnos_> oh interesting, made specifically for smokers
[15:44:48] <JT-Shop> I'm not sure if/what limits they have beyond the thermocouples
[15:45:08] <JT-Shop> do you have a smoker?
[15:45:13] <SWPadnos_> I have a friend who wants to make a controlled oven for applying coatings and stuff, not for a smoker
[15:45:23] <SWPadnos_> but I thought of you anyway :)
[15:45:37] <JT-Shop> like powder coating?
[15:45:49] <SWPadnos_> something like that. I'm not sure exactly
[15:46:01] <SWPadnos_> maybe thermal or RF shielding coats as well
[15:46:05] <JT-Shop> the simple one would be good for that I think
[15:46:18] <JT-Shop> the others have meat probes etc for smoking
[15:46:28] <SWPadnos_> I don't think anything will require very high temperatures - he's doing it in his basement, but I also don't know what kind of profiles he might need and whatnot
[15:47:19] <JT-Shop> I also have one that I used on my fermenter that is lower cost... I'll walk down and get the info for you
[15:51:25] <tom3p> JT-Shop, google sous-vide cooker it will yield lots of temp controlled DIY stuff using plc's and arduinos & thermocouples
[15:54:17] <pcw_home> skunkworks232 currently 4 encoders 8 analog/digital in 6 out (4 outs can be PWM) 64 key keypad 4 line x20 LCD IF
[15:55:54] <SWPadnos_> JT-Shop: thanks. He said he'd need to go to ~450 degrees for some stuff, so the smoker controllers may not quite fit the bill :)
[15:56:50] <skunkworks232> pcw_home: cool
[15:58:00] <pcw_home> and only 2 FPGA wires used
[15:58:59] <jthornton> this one I have down here is a Love temperature control but I can't find the info on it but it was in the $60 range
[15:59:22] <ATtiny8> what does it control? a vent?
[15:59:31] <ATtiny8> or a heater?
[16:00:37] <jthornton> this one controls the compressor on my kegerator
[16:00:57] <ATtiny8> (ignoring the travesty of 'smoking' via electric burners)
[16:04:25] <jthornton> SWPadnos_: http://www.dwyer-inst.com/Product/Temperature/TemperatureSwitches/RTD-Thermocouple/Series40T-40M/Ordering
[16:05:05] <skunkworks232> spi?
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[16:08:32] <pcw_home> no, RS-422 serial (uses SSERIAL configs) so 100 feet is possible but still realtime (up to 10 KHz update rate)
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[16:27:23] <pcw_home> Well it still needs driver support but that should be an easy addition to Andys sserial support already in 2.5
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[16:46:10] <JT-Shop> how would the pendant connect up physically?
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[16:50:40] <pcw_home> I connects to one of our FPGA cards via a RS422 interface (so needs one of our RS-422 daughter cards (7i34, 7I44, 7I47, 7I52)
[16:50:46] <pcw_home> or just a single RS-422 IF chip (SP491). Wire wise we use CAT5E (1 pair out 1 pair in 1 pair for 5V and 1 pair for gnd)
[16:51:14] <JT-Shop> cool
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[16:54:09] <pcw_home> same pin arrangement as all our other SSERIAL stuff (currently 8I20 and 7I64 but pendant, 48x TTL I/O, 48x 24V 350 mA out, 48x 24V in and 8 out (36V 2A) 16 in modules coming)
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[16:56:40] <pcw_home> eases the FPGA pin limitations and allows the I/O to be located where needed while still being real-time
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[19:47:44] <willburrrr2003> can I set emc to use a parallel port pin as a PWM signal?
[19:47:56] <cradek> yes
[19:48:22] <cradek> there is a pwmgen hal component
[19:49:04] <willburrrr2003> nice, then I will have to try and hack my mini lathe speed controller which runs on PWM to accept that signal... will give me something to work on this weekend ;)
[19:49:27] <cradek> fun
[19:52:02] <skunkworks> It works quite well - I have acutally done closed loop servos using pwm out the printer port and reading encoders back in.
[19:52:18] <skunkworks> granted - not the highest performance ;)
[19:54:17] <willburrrr2003> sounds funner then what I pent lastnight doing... I couldn't get the tpi on my cross slide to a setting that allowed me to move 1" , turns out that even thought the dial on the axis show .001' increments that the screw is actially 1mm thread pitch giving real increments of .000984" instead of the .001" that the are marked as.... so I will try 25.4 TPI tonight and see if that gets me my 1" test move (measured with dial ind
[19:56:07] <willburrrr2003> i figred that with the 1mm thread pitch and having 25.4 mm per inch, that should get me right about 1" movement
[19:56:26] <willburrrr2003> btw sorry bout my spelling, this KB at work sucks ;)
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[19:59:17] <skunkworks> funny
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[20:02:15] <andypugh> 25.4 is _exactly_ 1"
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[20:05:14] <cradek> it is today, it hasn't always been
[20:06:11] <skunkworks> logger[psha]_:
[20:06:13] <cradek> andypugh: I bet he means his dial has 25 graduations, but the screw is 1mm. 25/25.4 = .984
[20:06:41] <cradek> i.e. what is known as "not a great lathe"
[20:06:46] <andypugh> Aye, the inch was redefined to match the mm.
[20:06:53] <cradek> yes
[20:07:12] <andypugh> And Mars Orbiters still crash...
[20:07:50] <PCW_> Hi andypugh
[20:08:28] <andypugh> Hi Pete.
[20:08:41] <PCW_> got an idea on the sserial driver
[20:08:59] <andypugh> Go on...
[20:09:02] <psha> andypugh: and Pi is 3!
[20:11:56] <Connor1> anyone know of a dxf or stl or something of a arduino board ? I need the profile for one..
[20:12:11] <PCW_> Well we have 5 new sserial remote devices and it would be nice to be able to support new devices without driver mods
[20:12:12] <PCW_> so I would like to add a raw sserial mode the just exposes device id and the remote data (as 2 32 bit unsigned numbers in each direction)
[20:12:14] <PCW_> so a comp can do all the dirty work
[20:12:41] <cradek> Connor1: some information at http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1251085259
[20:12:46] <cradek> (google hit #2)
[20:13:31] <Connor1> no file, just messurments.
[20:13:35] <cradek> also you get to see someone say "Inches = [crying frowny face icon]" when in fact the numbers are quite nice and round in inches.
[20:14:15] <andypugh> Hmm.
[20:14:17] <cradek> http://www.johngineer.com/blog/?p=336
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[20:14:28] <andypugh> The parameter write is already generic
[20:14:38] <cradek> I hate to keep doing your google work for you, but I bet you can find the *information* easily, even if you don't get the exact file format you want
[20:14:42] <andypugh> (As in, writing to NVRAM)
[20:15:30] <grommit> I am in the middle of running a gcode program in axis and I messed up the tool change position in my cam program. So, I can't get the tool out in order to change the tool. Is there a something I can do to regain control in order to raise the spindle, let me change tool and resume?
[20:15:45] <Connor1> I've already been googleing.. I was just thinking someone might have a link or a dxf/stl file on hand vs a image or whatever.
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[20:16:30] <PCW_> Yes, but this is for the real time data I/O
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[20:17:13] <grommit> I paused (and ack'd the tool change dialog), but it won't let me move anything...
[20:17:34] <andypugh> grommit: I think you are stuck. Stopping, jogging and then right-click to run-from-line might save the day
[20:18:24] <grommit> Is there a trick? Or do I just have to start over?
[20:18:53] <andypugh> You can start a G-code program from the middle.
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[20:19:11] <andypugh> You might have to manually set the spindle speed.
[20:19:51] <grommit> So I would stop what I am currently running, move the spindle, change the tool, and then start a program from a specific line?
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[20:20:05] <grommit> How does one start ffrom a specific line?
[20:20:25] <cradek> grommit: select it, right click, run from here
[20:20:29] <andypugh> PCW_: I am not sure if writing a comp for each device is much easier than writing a new driver sub-segment for each.
[20:20:49] <grommit> ok, thanks will give it a try.
[20:21:23] <andypugh> Whilst agreeing that is is a bit easier, it is work to re-rig everything.
[20:22:36] <PCW_> I was thinking its just an added mode (say if the ID is unrecognized)
[20:22:52] <andypugh> I was just about to suggest that.
[20:23:26] <andypugh> Aye, it ought to be possible to provide raw register access for valid, but unrecognised device IDs.
[20:23:38] <PCW_> then any old fool (like me) can write a comp to access the remote device
[20:24:06] <grommit> Cool, worked fine. Thanks again Chris and Andy
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[20:28:52] <andypugh> One drawback would be some fairly tedious HAL code to net each register to each instance of a device.
[20:30:55] <andypugh> What would be really clever would be for the driver to look for a realtime module matching the returned ID of the sserial device, and to load and link it...
[20:31:28] <andypugh> Not going to happen if it is my brain handling it though.
[20:36:33] <PCW_> I think the comp way would be OK and allow some flexibility on the way the data is exposed on the users side of the comp
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[20:38:44] <andypugh> The way it is structured now, it isn't dreadfully difficult to add new devices, even without comp.
[20:40:05] <PCW_> for example one of the new sserial devices is a simple 48 bit TTL I/O module. you might want the IO exposed as bits/ but then again you might want it as bytes
[20:41:00] <andypugh> Would you anticipate adding specific support for the devices to the driver eventually, or do you see the new devices being controlled by comps indefinitely?
[20:41:31] <andypugh> In which case, do we remove the specific 8i20 and 7i64 support and move them to comps?
[20:43:33] <PCW_> good question. I do like the "expose raw interface on unknown ID" scheme
[20:44:00] <andypugh> One might argue for a new type of HAL pin that passes a sserial_tram_t struct...
[20:45:44] <PCW_> Yes Ive kind of asked for that (to expand the limited single read/write per invokation raw-read/raw-write facility)
[20:47:53] 44UAAAD5O is now known as seb_kuzminsky
[20:48:07] <PCW_> This is kind of the same thing except constrained to sserial so the driver handles a ll the normal startup/id stuff so the comp is really simple (just data scatter gather)
[20:51:27] <andypugh> I think it would need a wiser head than mine to decide if passing all that data through HAL was a good idea.
[20:51:38] <andypugh> And as if by magic, seb arrives....
[20:52:03] <Jymmm> demonic magic
[20:52:21] <seb_kuzminsky> you rang?
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[20:52:35] <Jymmm> seb_kuzminsky: Hey Lucifer...
[20:52:52] <seb_kuzminsky> my friends call me Juicifer
[20:52:58] <Jymmm> hahaha
[20:53:12] <andypugh> Pete is suggesting just exposing the Mart Serial registers in HAL, for comp modules to access, rather than handing each device in the HosmtMot2 driver
[20:53:32] <seb_kuzminsky> so, about hooking things like serial ports into hal
[20:53:55] <seb_kuzminsky> i haven't looked at smartserial, and it was a long time since i looked at spi
[20:54:05] <andypugh> About hoking things like 8i20s, 7i64s and Mystery Devices Beyond Human Ken into Hostmot2
[20:54:39] <seb_kuzminsky> but i think it might make sense to make a new kind of hal object to go next to pins and params, maybe call it a stream?
[20:54:44] <seb_kuzminsky> or a pipe? or socket?
[20:55:04] <seb_kuzminsky> an abstraction for sequences of bytes to send in or out of a comp
[20:55:07] <seb_kuzminsky> with nice buffering and stuff
[20:55:27] <andypugh> Sounds clever, but I am not sure it would do the trick in this case.
[20:55:36] <seb_kuzminsky> hm ok
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[20:55:49] <seb_kuzminsky> you know this stuff much better than i do
[20:56:20] <andypugh> Basically there are three 32 bit registers for each device, so that is 3 read pins and 3 write pins.
[20:56:39] <andypugh> Currently they live in a struct inside Hostmot2.
[20:56:48] <andypugh> But they could be 6 HAL pins
[20:57:19] <andypugh> With an addf for each device on top, it will make for a messy HAL file.
[20:58:25] <andypugh> I am not sure if handling each device instance with a separate function has a performance impact. I suspect it might not.
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[20:59:49] <seb_kuzminsky> andypugh: which registers are you talking about?
[21:00:35] <andypugh> Hmm, given that HAL pins are really just pointers, maybe the trick is to have a hal pointer type? Then the source and sink pins just have to be in agreement about what form the data is in, so it could be a struct?
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[21:01:31] <andypugh> seb_kuzminsky: The registers are Hostmot2 registers, as with any other device. Physically on the FPGA, but with values determined by the Smart Serial device.
[21:01:58] <PCW_> The CSR could be handled by the driver (it definition should not change) so there are really only 2 32bit regs in and 2 32 bit regs out
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[21:02:48] <seb_kuzminsky> andypugh: are you talking about the sserial tx/rx registers? i'm missing some context here
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[21:04:01] <PCW_> seb: smart serial is a serial interface but the protocol details are handled by a little CPU so all the driver sees is some dual ported RAM ragisters
[21:04:15] <seb_kuzminsky> ah
[21:04:22] <PCW_> ragged ragisters
[21:04:29] <andypugh> seb_kuzminsky: Pete has a new class of cards which communicate with the FPGA boards through a serial interface. The Hostmot2 side of that interface is presented as 2 dual-ported registers.
[21:05:28] <seb_kuzminsky> this is the sserial "command/status register", "user interface register 0", and "user interface register 1"?
[21:05:37] <PCW_> Yep
[21:05:49] <seb_kuzminsky> the ui regs are shared with the device on the other end of the serial cable?
[21:07:15] <andypugh> I ought to be able to cobble together something which exposes the raw registers for unknown devices sometime this weekend. (I can just make the driver forget about the 7i64 for a while)
[21:07:23] <PCW_> Sort of, the host fills the registers with outgoing data and issues a send command
[21:07:54] <seb_kuzminsky> PCW_: the DoIt bit in the "Processor command register"?
[21:08:24] <PCW_> we can send you some unknown devices (or 8I20 firmware that lies about what it is)
[21:09:04] <PCW_> Yes I thing the regmap file has a fairly up-to date description
[21:09:55] <andypugh> There is scope, though, for all sorts of pain if integrators lose track of which set of registers belongs to which device. setting bits on a 7i64 wen the registers really belong to an 8i20 would be bad...
[21:10:35] <andypugh> Or, to put it another way, wiring a 7i64 comp to 8i20 pins...
[21:11:22] <PCW_> well the unknown ID could be part of the hal name so you would have to wire them up rather deliberately wrong
[21:11:45] <andypugh> I think for safety and integrator-friendliness the aim should be to eventually support the devices "properly"
[21:11:53] <willburrrr2003> sorry, got pulled away by boss.... my dial on the cross slide has 40 graduations that are supposed to be .001 but are really only .000984 because of the screw being 1mm thread pitch... I took that as 1mm per thread, and divided 1.0" x 1mm coming out with a TPI of 25.4(mm's per inch...) I know its not top quality but am working with what I got....how does my thinking on this math sound?
[21:12:09] <PCW_> (assuming the know one retained their names (8i20,7I64 etc)
[21:12:17] <PCW_> known
[21:13:05] <andypugh> The returned value is the device "code", not the name. So it might be ambiguous if you make more than 100 cards.
[21:13:20] <andypugh> ie, 80 for 8i20 and 74 for 7i64
[21:13:24] <PCW_> actualyl most of the new devices are just I/O so should be very similar to 7I64
[21:13:26] <PCW_> 0x100 cards
[21:13:50] <andypugh> You are planning to release an Ai4B card?
[21:14:28] <andypugh> willburrrr2003: Yes, 1mm is exactly 25.4 TPI.
[21:15:03] <andypugh> Or, you could just set your machine up as a metric machine.
[21:15:33] <PCW_> ( I'm sure this mnemonic card code thing will end up being a mistake )
[21:15:35] <PCW_> btw you _can_ read the complete card name...
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[21:16:04] <willburrrr2003> sweet then, if I move into my dial indicator to zero position and zero the axis once i am there, then If i gove the move command to go into the work by 1" my dial should finally stop at 1" ...that would be great
[21:16:36] <andypugh> It only takes one G20 command to make the metric machine imperial, and that setting persists through a restart.
[21:16:40] <willburrrr2003> I can't go for metric...I have a 16TPI leadscrew
[21:16:54] <PCW_> seb_kuzminsky hows windows-land?
[21:17:54] <willburrrr2003> for sume reason they used metric on the cross slide and standard on the saddle screw....
[21:17:58] <andypugh> PCW_: FWIW the driver doesn't assume a mnemonic code, so you are right, we can support 0x100 cards.
[21:19:43] <seb_kuzminsky> PCW_: windows is making me unhappy
[21:19:53] <seb_kuzminsky> i wish i was still in linux land
[21:19:57] <PCW_> more than I plan on making (though things like the pendant/control panel interface mhave multiple IDs depending on how their option settings )
[21:20:17] <skunkworks> seb_kuzminsky: what are you up to?
[21:20:18] <PCW_> windows is supposed to make you unhappy...
[21:20:22] <willburrrr2003> I'm guessing either way I still have to do some work to make it work......since one is standard and one is metric
[21:21:57] <andypugh> Just define it as an Imperial machine with a 25.4tpi leadscrew pitch. That should be a complete and perfect solution.
[21:23:46] <willburrrr2003> Great I will do that when I get home....been playng with it nightl since I got my control panel working hehe....it will get to start to be a lot of fun when my flexible shaft couplings come in next week , as I have shaft alignment problems causing vibration and binding on the main leadscrew
[21:24:12] <willburrrr2003> Thanks for your input on this andy & Cradek :)
[21:27:16] <willburrrr2003> and anyone else I missed trying to read the back text from while I was away ;)
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[21:38:05] <andypugh> PCW_: I think you would have to be careful to addf the sserial_generic-read, hostmot2-read, sserial-generic-write and hostmot2-write functions to the threads in the right order.
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[21:40:35] <PCW_> Right
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[21:46:46] <Jyrki> hi folks
[21:47:07] <skunkworks> hi Jyrki
[21:47:09] <cradek> hey
[21:47:13] <Jyrki> can anyone help me with gladevnc related problem??
[21:47:29] <cradek> possibly
[21:47:41] <willburrrr2003> Hi Jyrki
[21:47:50] <Jyrki> I'm trying to develop new ui and I ran into some problems
[21:48:40] <skunkworks> screenshots!
[21:49:25] <Jyrki> I'm new with irc... How??
[21:50:26] <Jyrki> anyway. all my added buttons are disabled....
[21:50:41] <Jyrki> how can i ENABLE THEM??
[21:51:09] <cradek> some of the widgets have a hal pin that determines whether they are enabled
[21:51:18] <Jyrki> ok
[21:51:31] <skunkworks> Jyrki: http://imagebin.org/
[21:51:37] <Jyrki> I'm usin togglebuttons
[21:51:48] <Jyrki> thanks
[21:56:37] <Jyrki> http://imagebin.org/141200
[21:57:19] <Jyrki> http://imagebin.org/141201
[21:57:43] <Jyrki> First is from EMC and second from design
[21:58:46] <skunkworks> in hal you can look at all the pins generated - look for enables..
[21:58:47] <Jyrki> BTW thats nice service for porting images... --> bookmarked :)
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[22:02:04] <andypugh> Jyrki: skunkworks means in Machine->Show Hal Config, though you can also see everything by typing "halcmd show all" in a terminal window
[22:02:37] <Jyrki> Jep I found it and it is disabled
[22:03:31] <andypugh> You can type commands in the bottom of that window, setp ......enabled 1
[22:03:57] <andypugh> (but really you need the setp in the HAL file)
[22:04:33] <Jyrki> enabled
[22:04:44] <Jyrki> sorry wrong KB :)
[22:09:48] <Jyrki> Thanks. I got it to work
[22:13:36] <PCW_> "PCW_: I think you would have to be careful to addf the sserial_generic-read, hostmot2-read, sserial-generic-write and hostmot2-write functions to the threads in the right order."
[22:13:38] <PCW_> Actually why would you need any additional functions? the raw i/o should be just like normal sserial I/O (except that its data I/O is 2 undifferentiated 32 bit ints )
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[22:14:12] <andypugh> You would need to run the comp functions?
[22:14:59] <andypugh> Each new comp would need a prepare_tram_write and a process_tram_read function, and they would need to be in a thread.
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[22:16:59] <PCW_> Oh you are thinking TRAM, I'm just thinking sserial exports and imports generic 32 bit data for unknown cards
[22:17:55] <andypugh> It is just the same. (I am not at all sure that Hostmot2 really does do TRAM reading and writing, you know)
[22:18:08] <andypugh> The EMC2 Hostmot2, I mean.
[22:21:18] <andypugh> There is no need for any extra functions in the driver, but the new comp functions to handle the various cards need two functions each, and need to be linked to a thread in the right sequence.
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[22:26:02] <hackjob> Am I going to need some sort of breakout board to interface to servo amps ?
[22:28:50] <PCW_> If they are step+dir maybe not
[22:29:13] <hackjob> thanks--they are analog
[22:29:20] <hackjob> +/- 10v
[22:31:00] <hackjob> I will be using on a lathe
[22:31:26] <hackjob> so there will be minimum 3 encoders also
[22:31:59] <hackjob> probly should plan on at least one additional encoder at a later date also
[22:32:43] <hackjob> so I guess next question is:
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[22:32:57] <PCW_> probably need us, pico systems, motenc, or some such servo interface setup
[22:33:05] <hackjob> got any recommendations for me
[22:33:27] <hackjob> aww beat me to it
[22:35:57] <hackjob> thanks I'll look into those--appreciate if you come up with any others let me know
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[22:39:46] <PCW_> the supported hardware list on the EMC wiki is your best source
[22:41:29] <hackjob> ill that too then once I get some time to get accustomed to the emc site
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[22:49:25] <hackjob> found it
[22:49:29] <hackjob> thanks again
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[22:49:39] <hackjob> gotta run bbl maybe
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