#emc | Logs for 2011-03-02

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[00:28:29] <skunkworks> heh
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[00:31:13] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
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[00:40:58] <Valen> 15" touch screen for $50 http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?cPath=64&products_id=935
[00:52:29] <elmo40> nice find, Valen
[00:52:44] <Valen> be carefull on the shipping its coming from australia
[00:59:50] <elmo40> ouch
[01:04:30] <Valen> about 100km from me, but still in the same city lol
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[02:56:13] <Valen> anybody know off hand what the g code for telling EMC to go to the exact point then move vs smoothing is?
[02:57:22] <Tom_itx> g90 and g91 are mode commands iirc
[02:57:29] <Tom_itx> for absolute or relative
[02:57:44] <pcw_home> g64 pxxx?
[02:57:51] <Tom_itx> oh wait, that's not what you're after
[02:57:52] <Valen> yeah g64 thats it
[02:57:58] <skunkworks> g61
[02:57:59] <Tom_itx> brb
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[02:58:07] <Valen> 61 yes
[02:58:10] <Valen> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G61,-G61.1,-G64:
[02:58:12] <skunkworks> heh
[02:58:41] <Valen> its normally a g64 p something, any idea what the default p is?
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[03:00:22] <Tom_itx> i was looking over a test file and wondered if the P.001 is necessary or will emc take standard fanuc gcode files?
[03:00:33] <Tom_itx> what else do i need to mod in my template for it
[03:01:31] <Tom_itx> i'm looking at skeleton.ngc
[03:02:32] <Tom_itx> i notice it doesn't end with m30 either
[03:04:22] <Tom_itx> is it necessary to specify G20 in every file? or is there a default somewhere
[03:05:21] <pcw_home> look like theres no max tolerance if the p is undefined so you probably dont want a bare G64
[03:05:43] <Tom_itx> P is some sort of delay it appears
[03:06:31] <pcw_home> its the blending limit (for G64)
[03:07:14] <Tom_itx> i don't generally use G64
[03:07:23] <Tom_itx> is there a default control mode?
[03:08:07] <Tom_itx> i'd rather make a template for emc for my cad cam and get it right the first time
[03:08:34] <Tom_itx> but i don't know what you can get away with yet
[03:09:53] <Tom_itx> i suppose i can throw a couple files at it and see what it does
[03:10:12] <Tom_itx> i'm a ways from actually using it right now
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[03:30:49] <elmo40> g61.1
[03:30:54] <elmo40> g64 cancels it
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[04:19:20] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7OjRYQAm64&feature=player_embedded
[04:24:02] <Tom_itx> i like that show
[04:24:09] <Tom_itx> i've seen that one
[04:29:06] <Jymmm> Anyone know where to get a replacement from? http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5058/5490769318_99c8bb6c2c_b.jpg
[04:30:02] <Tom_itx> stock drive products maybe
[04:30:14] <Jymmm> link?
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[04:30:45] <Tom_itx> http://www.sdp-si.com/
[04:31:24] <cradek> do you have a lathe?
[04:31:39] <Jymmm> no
[04:32:24] <Jymmm> what is that called anyway?
[04:32:28] <Tom_itx> is that belt drive material?
[04:32:32] <Jymmm> yes
[04:32:45] <Tom_itx> their site sucks to search
[04:32:51] <Jymmm> spur gear?
[04:32:57] <Jymmm> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Direct.asp?GroupID=216
[04:33:16] <Tom_itx> you gotta figure out the pitch first
[04:33:46] <Jymmm> no, I gotta figure out what its called first =)
[04:35:30] <Tom_itx> just a sec
[04:37:20] <Tom_itx> i ordered some oncd but i can't find em now
[04:37:27] <Jymmm> heh
[04:37:37] <Jymmm> it'sall good, dont worry about it
[04:37:43] <Jymmm> but ty anyway
[04:39:01] <Tom_itx> ok
[04:39:04] <Tom_itx> under pulleys
[04:39:12] <Tom_itx> search for metal timing pulleys
[04:39:15] <Tom_itx> on the menu
[04:39:25] <Tom_itx> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Direct.asp?GroupID=216
[04:40:12] <Tom_itx> crap that was the same link you pasted
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[04:41:27] <Tom_itx> what pitch is it?
[04:41:39] <Tom_itx> and tooth count
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[04:42:56] <Tom_itx> i counted 25 t
[04:45:06] <Tom_itx> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail.asp?Opener=Group&PartID=58725&GroupID=217
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[05:34:57] <bill2or3> if I have an error in my postgui.hal where would that error appear/log ?
[05:37:20] <Jymmm> I know if you start emc from console, it'll show the error in the console
[05:38:12] <bill2or3> good enough, thanks.
[05:39:46] * bill2or3 debugs joypad
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[06:14:45] <bill2or3> apparently for hal commands to work, you have to put them in a file that's actually being included in the configuration.
[06:14:49] <bill2or3> *facepalm*
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[07:02:07] <Jymmm> Eh, it happens
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[07:51:14] <mrsunshine> after seeing thing mill i will never buy something made in china anymore ;PO
[07:51:19] <mrsunshine> ok, some stuffs, but not mills
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[08:25:19] <archivist> mrsunshine, built down to a price for the average model engineer, unfortunately the target market does not know a good machine from a bad one
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[10:58:04] <HDB10> psha Thanks for the fixedjog.py program it helps. H....,
[11:04:05] <psha> np
[11:11:34] <elmo40> psha: Imperial is still widely used. Yes, it is odd to have 12 units(inches) in a larger unit(foot)... but it is still alive.
[11:12:37] <psha> elmo40: just trolling ;)
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[11:25:45] <elmo40> i was only replying to your earlier comment :) not picking a fight.
[11:29:10] <psha> :)
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[15:28:00] <L84Supper> FPGA with dual Arm Cortex-A9 + 28K-235K logic cells for $15 later this year http://www.xilinx.com/technology/roadmap/processing-platform.htm
[15:28:58] <L84Supper> will make for a low cost single board EMC2 controller + IO
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[15:42:34] <pcw_home> Why do all of Xilinx's new chip series sound like inventions of mr mxyzptlk?
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[15:47:17] <L84Supper> possibly a fear of vowels?
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[16:38:32] <IchGuckLive> Hi all 2nd Spacewalk today http://www.ustream.tv/channel-popup/nasa-hd-tv
[16:48:38] <IchGuckLive> by
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[17:49:24] <tom3p> re yesterday's parport driver issue... i was a-sourcin when i shoulda been a-sinkin :( works fine now
[17:51:05] <pcw_home> DTL's long legacy
[17:54:49] <tom3p> yeh, it finally rang a bell from a recent irc comment (DOH!)
[17:54:55] <pcw_home> Anyone here old enough to remember the 946 quad nand gate?
[17:55:26] <pcw_home> man those wired ands were a pain to debug
[17:59:20] <psha> quick dumb question - is it possible to use stepper drives with in-EMC PID loop?
[18:02:35] <psha> for example feed pid.*.output into stepgen input in velocity mode?
[18:02:38] <pcw_home> Sort of, you can use the step generator in velocity mode and encoder feedback to a PID loop (basically simulatoing a velocity mode servo)
[18:02:47] <psha> thx
[18:03:00] <psha> it's actualy not me, retranslating question from russian forum
[18:03:29] <pcw_home> it will not prevent stalls but can detect them
[18:06:00] <pcw_home> if you bounded the actual steps to what the encoder says is within a full step and ran the feedback fast enough you _might_ make it unstallable
[18:06:19] <atmega328> how so?
[18:06:37] <atmega328> if a stepper is going to stall, it is going to stall, because you are doing something 'wrong'
[18:07:55] <pcw_home> If you never issue steps more than 90 electrical degrees from whwre the rotor is you cannot stall in the step motor sense (only the servo sense)
[18:08:35] <atmega328> a stall due to phase, rather than lack of torque?
[18:09:03] <pcw_home> this is how unstallable step motor drives work, basically a 2 phase simplification of a 3 phase FOC servo drive
[18:10:12] <pcw_home> if you know where the rotoris you have a 50 pole 2 phase servo motor
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[18:34:30] <skunkworks> I still think it would be neat to try adaptive feed in regards to steppers. as f-error increases - lower feedrate.
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[18:47:22] <mrsunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb1kUCb9avw&NR=1&feature=fvwp at about 1:56, ough ... :P
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[19:01:10] <awallin_> does the tool break in that crash??
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[19:24:24] <Jymmm> cradek: all drives working? tried backup and restore yet? how fast?
[19:24:34] <cradek> awallin: I think it's a special tool holder with long reach that takes inserts itself
[19:24:54] <cradek> was
[19:25:05] <Connor> what are they saying?
[19:25:12] <cradek> that I can't say
[19:25:18] <cradek> I think it's a sales demo!
[19:25:24] <Connor> Demoing what?
[19:25:35] <Connor> how to break a endmill ?
[19:26:06] <Jymmm> cradek: all drives working? tried backup and restore yet? how fast?
[19:26:28] <cradek> Jymmm: yes, using it right now actually, but backing up over a slow network, only getting 2MB/sec
[19:26:48] <Jymmm> cradek: robot issue or lan issue?
[19:26:56] <cradek> DUMP: 28.64% done at 2056 kB/s, finished in 1:27
[19:27:06] <cradek> all to one tape - just lan
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[19:27:31] <Jymmm> cradek: diff or full ?
[19:27:47] <cradek> this is a level 0
[19:28:11] <Connor> what are you backing up ?
[19:28:12] <Jymmm> cradek: rsync?
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[19:32:25] <skunkworks> http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/thread1.jpg
[19:32:54] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/125803
[19:33:13] <kirk_wallace> Hello, Is anyone using the gs2_vfd.c comp? I need to know how it gets installed, or actually compiled.
[19:34:18] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/125802
[19:34:59] <cradek> kirk_wallace: it's been part of the distribution for quite a while.
[19:35:45] <kirk_wallace> cradek: So it gets compiled along with the rest of EMC2 during installation?
[19:36:01] <cradek> yes
[19:36:54] <cradek> skunkworks: yuck
[19:38:38] <PCW_> "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/125802" What an elegant argument against buffered motion control
[19:38:47] <kirk_wallace> I don't have the chops to compile my modio.c, what are my options, other that learning everything else about EMC2 that I haven't learned yet?
[19:38:55] <cradek> it woudl be best to
[19:38:55] <cradek> do as EMC does and plan by index insted of vary time by index. But its not
[19:38:56] <cradek> possible in the Windows environment.
[19:39:02] <cradek> /art
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[19:42:56] <kirk_wallace> If I learn to compile EMC2 from source, then put modio.c in the same directory as gs2_vfd.c will it get installed too?
[19:43:26] <cradek> I don't know what modio.c is
[19:44:40] <kirk_wallace> It is my hack of gs2_vfd.c, http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/modbus/homann_modio.c
[19:44:52] <psha> kirk_wallace: no, unless you'll add it into makefiles
[19:45:16] <cradek> yes just copy what you see for gs2_vfd in the makefiles to get it to build
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[19:49:15] <kirk_wallace> Okay so my plan is, 1) get up to speed on EMC2 from source, then 2) find gs2_vfd files in source and duplicate for my modio.c. Seem reasonable? If so, I am still stuck on my plan define a method that any integrator could use to create a new VFD/Modbus configuration.
[19:49:58] <cradek> Jymmm: http://pastebin.com/Hkazu50Q
[19:50:31] <cradek> kirk_wallace: does classicladder's modbus integration not do what you need (I'm no expert on any of the modbus stuff, but I have used gs2_vfd once to run a gs2 vfd)
[19:50:38] <psha> kirk_wallace: do you want to ship your comp inside large emc2 package?
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[19:50:49] <Jymmm> cradek: Have you updated *ALL* of the firmwares (plural)?
[19:50:54] <cradek> nah
[19:50:56] <psha> why not to place it into separate package?
[19:51:29] <Jymmm> cradek: That would be my first start, that is just way too slow.
[19:52:59] <cradek> that's dumping a filesystem directly - a perfectly fine speed, considering
[19:53:12] <Jymmm> cradek: via scum c ?
[19:53:24] <Jymmm> (SCSI)
[19:53:49] <cradek> that /usr is on sata
[19:54:25] <Jymmm> cradek: hows the robot connected? SCSI or Ethernet?
[19:55:07] <Jymmm> nm
[19:55:09] <cradek> it only works as scsi
[19:55:15] <Jymmm> I forgot
[19:55:22] <cradek> ah
[19:55:36] <Jymmm> the fancier stuff can backup across lan
[19:57:22] <Jymmm> cradek: so you're selectively backing up things to specific tapes? Are you removing the tape afterwards?
[19:57:42] <Jymmm> (to prevent overwrite)
[19:57:43] <cradek> dude, I've been doing tape backups for decades
[19:58:48] <Jymmm> Yeah, I know. Remember that I contributed to the delinquency of a tape whore (you)?
[19:58:54] <cradek> I actually use amanda for routine backups
[19:59:10] <cradek> it's much smarter than I am about what to put on which tape
[19:59:28] <Jymmm> cradek: But you said you just did a driver backup, is that the ONLY content you'll put on that tape?
[19:59:47] <Jymmm> -r
[20:00:16] <cradek> I did that because you asked about the throughput; I thought you were interested in seeing the output.
[20:00:30] <cradek> I really, really don't need any help :-)
[20:00:35] <Jymmm> yeah I am, didn't know it was jsut a test is all =)
[20:00:50] <Jymmm> I wasn't offering any help, I was asking methdology
[20:01:22] <cradek> brb
[20:02:26] <kirk_wallace> I don't know how to use Classic Ladder, not a big fan for (but not against either) CL and I'd rather not make it a requirement. I take it if one knows CL they, can talk to any Modbus device?
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[20:04:00] <frallzor> how to join HDPE with HDPE?
[20:06:22] <kirk_wallace> frallzor: I don't know, it may be weldable?
[20:08:05] <frallzor> I got hdpe to machine and to join
[20:08:21] <frallzor> Im pretty sure the ppl said they hade stuff to join but what could it be?
[20:08:51] <frallzor> might be something that just dissolves the hdpe for a while and you can join?
[20:09:29] <Jymmm> frallzor: http://www.innerduct.com/products/hdpe_glue.php
[20:09:56] <Jymmm> frallzor: You can't solvent weld it if that's what you were asking.
[20:11:19] <cradek> kirk_wallace: I don't know enough about it to say it works with _any_ device
[20:11:51] <frallzor> wonder how that glue works then
[20:12:07] <frallzor> pretty sure HDPE should be pretty much a total bitch to glue?
[20:13:34] <Jymmm> http://www.innerduct.com/assets/propoly_movie_2_sm.wmv
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[20:25:16] <mrsunshine> frallzor, just thread it and screw it together! =)
[20:26:20] <frallzor> cant
[20:27:13] <skunkworks> cradek: I thought you would like the read. (how others have done it)
[20:27:16] <skunkworks> :)
[20:27:23] <alex_joni> o
[20:28:00] <cradek> sure took me a while to get it right in emc - glad the problem was me, and not the architecture
[20:28:22] <cradek> I still smile whenever I tap on jr.
[20:28:40] <mrsunshine> frallzor, friction weld? :)
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[20:30:29] <frallzor> no stuff for it
[20:32:24] <Tom_itx> you have a shed for all your 9tracks?
[20:36:07] <Tom_itx> frallzor, you might be able to ultrasonic weld it but i don't think there's a solvent/glue for it
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[20:37:39] <skunkworks> cradek: yes - it sure was easy setting up rigid tapping on the K&T
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[20:38:05] <cradek> yeah if you can call rigging up that encoder easy...
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[20:38:54] <skunkworks> well - software wise ;)
[20:38:57] <Tom_L> http://www.masterbond.com/lp/tabs/tp_bys_polyolefinbonding.html
[20:39:38] <Tom_L> http://www.innerduct.com/products/hdpe_glue.php
[20:40:22] <Tom_itx> frallzor ^^
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[20:40:39] <frallzor> I see it but cant find any of that here in sweden =(
[20:41:00] <frallzor> guess I have to see how the "client" is going to handle this
[20:41:01] <archivist> skunkworks, dunno why john stevenson persists with mach, its hard getting him to move across
[20:41:16] <frallzor> they gave me HDPE so I hope they can bond that shit =)
[20:41:17] <skunkworks> is he one local to you?
[20:41:24] <archivist> skunkworks, yes
[20:41:25] <Tom_itx> heh
[20:42:04] <frallzor> I just said I could machine it, so the rest is their problem =P
[20:43:12] <skunkworks> archivist: yah - I don't know. there are strong mach ties. I think it comes down to time invested.
[20:44:00] <archivist> skunkworks, yes very likely
[20:44:24] <archivist> I think Linux is a bit of culture shock for some
[20:44:55] <skunkworks> if they would just try it...
[20:45:07] <skunkworks> the people that say linux is hard have not actually used it.
[20:45:24] <archivist> he has tried it.
[20:45:50] <skunkworks> well then ;)
[20:46:02] <archivist> but probably does not want to inflict linux on customers because he would then have tio support
[20:46:13] <andypugh> Mach forums tend to describe EMC2 as "by techies, for techies". I think there is some truth to that. But then surely DIY CNC builders _are_ techies?
[20:46:51] <skunkworks> archivist: the guy who makes the fireball machines perfers supporting emc2 over mach.
[20:46:55] <archivist> well I do see a lack of knowledge in some areas needed :)
[20:52:32] <bill20r3> how much does Mach cost, anyway?
[20:52:54] <frallzor> a lifetime of hatred
[20:53:06] <skunkworks> I think $150
[20:53:19] <skunkworks> or $120 - some where around in there.
[20:53:24] <bill20r3> heh. I've had good luck in my limited experience with emc2.
[20:53:31] <bill20r3> I've done basic'ish setups for 2 machines.
[20:53:42] <frallzor> i actually think emc is easier than mach
[20:53:43] <bill20r3> just steppers, one diy, & one fireball.
[20:54:01] <skunkworks> bill20r3: how do you like the fireball?
[20:54:19] <bill20r3> I haven't actually cut anything with it, but it draws stuff with a pen pretty well. :-)
[20:54:40] <bill20r3> it has the feel of a really well done garage-project.
[20:54:47] <skunkworks> heh
[20:55:10] <bill20r3> it's all MDF construction, with pvc pipe and allthread tensioning rods.
[20:55:21] <bill20r3> you could make one at home, pretty much.
[20:55:37] <skunkworks> really? wow - I thought for some reason it was all aluminum
[20:56:09] <bill20r3> but the kit had been built already, and tehn disassembled, so that shows they're commited to it working.
[20:56:33] <bill20r3> no, the 'siliver' pipes are painted pvc.
[20:56:38] <bill20r3> err, silver.
[20:56:47] <kirk_wallace> What do Mach users do about loading Windows. I'm constantly loading Linux on a drive or changing the motherboard, which it seems you can't do with Windows. ?
[20:57:03] <cradek> keep buying it, I guess
[20:57:18] <kirk_wallace> At $200 a pop?
[20:57:19] <cradek> with XP I think you can activate it several times before microsoft tells you no
[20:57:19] <bill20r3> never upgrade?
[20:57:34] <bill20r3> if it's offline, and it works, leave it alone, I guess.
[20:57:38] <cradek> (an unknown number of times)
[20:57:56] <atmega328> at worst, you have to call a toll-free number
[20:58:03] <cradek> windows people are used to that particular kind of abuse
[20:58:10] <cradek> they don't see it how we do :-)
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[20:58:35] <kirk_wallace> And they don't supply disks anymore?
[20:58:42] <bill20r3> it's it's own punishment.
[20:58:45] <atmega328> up to the vendor
[20:58:55] <cradek> wonder how long mach users will be able to buy XP32 licenses
[20:59:06] <bill20r3> I bought a laptop recently with Win7, and it didn't come with a disk.
[20:59:11] <bill20r3> a dell.
[21:03:06] <skunkworks> I haven't had too many issues with windows licencing. Sometimes you have to call... but most of the time not.
[21:04:27] <kirk_wallace> What is the call for?
[21:04:36] <cradek> the begging
[21:05:07] <skunkworks> are you sure you are not installing it on more than 1 computer?
[21:05:13] <skunkworks> sort of thing
[21:05:19] <atmega328> they didn't even ask me that
[21:05:20] <cradek> they ask you if you're sure?
[21:05:41] <bill20r3> do they say "are you sure?" in the tone of asking a child "Are you lying?"
[21:05:49] <bill20r3> heh
[21:05:56] <atmega328> no, they just asked me for the number on the screen
[21:05:56] <cradek> that's funny
[21:06:20] <cradek> and that's after you gave them money! :-)
[21:07:29] <atmega328> I paid for Linux once
[21:08:19] <kirk_wallace> If Windows had a reasonable price it might be nice to have, so I could learn what the real world was like.
[21:13:47] <kirk_wallace> I don't have a clue what I did, but I just compiled EMC2 from source. I'm no longer a virgin... I feel a little dirty. The wiki page sure makes it easy.
[21:14:50] <archivist> hehe
[21:17:46] * skunkworks high fives kirk_wallace
[21:23:16] <kirk_wallace> There was nothing to it (thanks to the devs), but thanks. It is a step forward.
[21:25:04] <danimal_garage> kirk, you ever get your toolchanger on the shizuoka working with emc?
[21:28:21] <kirk_wallace> No, its way too cold in the shop to work on it. It really shouldn't be a problem, just need to to toggle four or five pins in the proper order, Oops and add a magnetic abs encoder.
[21:29:01] <danimal_garage> kirk_wallace, are you using the built in logic?
[21:29:49] <danimal_garage> or are you gutting it and using relays or something?
[21:30:50] <danimal_garage> you don't need an encoder if you're using the built in logic boards, unless you want to get fancy
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[21:32:59] <danimal_garage> kirk_wallace, i used the logic boards for a while, but found it flakey at best. i ended up gutting it and using SSR's and a more involved ladder program
[21:33:40] <danimal_garage> works quite a bit better as you can tune it to run a bit smoother with timers and whatnot
[21:33:50] <kirk_wallace> The plan is to use as much of the original as is convenient. It worked when I switched the pins by hand and I have plenty of parport pins. I wanted to avoid having to home the carousel on startup, so the plan is for the abs encoder. It may not be worth the effort.
[21:34:39] <cradek> it currently can't turn both ways can it?
[21:34:46] <danimal_garage> yea, i had it home on startup... worked out ok. an encoder would be better i suppose
[21:34:51] <danimal_garage> cradek, mine can
[21:35:00] <cradek> the original I meant
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[21:35:03] <danimal_garage> yes
[21:35:06] <cradek> oh ok
[21:35:07] <danimal_garage> it could
[21:35:16] <cradek> (would suck otherwise)
[21:35:21] <danimal_garage> however the math has to be done in ladder
[21:35:30] <danimal_garage> haha yea it's already slow as it is
[21:35:47] <kirk_wallace> Did you get rid of the Geneva drive?
[21:35:58] <danimal_garage> kirk_wallace, i'd be willing to share my hal and ladder with you if you want to gut it
[21:36:03] <danimal_garage> not yet
[21:37:28] <danimal_garage> i have 6 ssr's, 2 relays, and a timer in there
[21:37:36] <danimal_garage> not too bad to wire
[21:38:58] <danimal_garage> if you ditch the geneva drive, you can ditch some of that
[21:39:18] <kirk_wallace> I changed to an inline gearmotor (60 RPM). The motion is infinitely better, I can go both ways, but I need to control a PWM somehow.
[21:39:39] <danimal_garage> cool
[21:40:01] <danimal_garage> i thought about doing a servo
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[21:40:22] <danimal_garage> with a programable digital drive, i can do all the programing in the drive instead of ladder
[21:40:40] <danimal_garage> which would eliminate the math in ladder as well
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[21:43:57] <danimal_garage> i should keep an eye on ebay for another matching servo as i already have a drive
[21:47:00] <kirk_wallace> I tend to want to do everything in EMC2. The plan is to use software PWM, PID and Rate. Motion won't be needed. I got a Bodine 90VDC gearmotor from eBay cheap and almost was a drop in replacement.
[21:48:59] <danimal_garage> cool
[21:49:51] <danimal_garage> i guess i can do the same as well as long as it'll stop fast enough and be consistent
[21:51:19] <L84Supper> Asus motherboard box doubles as PC case http://www.itworld.com/hardware/138767/cebit-asus-motherboard-box-doubles-pc-case-video
[21:51:36] <kirk_wallace> The encoder will tell me when I am getting close to my target pocket, start the ramp down, with a PID finish (maybe).
[21:52:29] <danimal_garage> interesting idea
[21:52:39] <danimal_garage> hope it works!
[21:53:17] <kirk_wallace> I placed my modio.c file in with gs2_vfd.c and noticed a Submake file. Might that be the place to add my entry to get my file compiled along with EMC2?
[21:54:00] <psha> yes
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[21:55:23] <kirk_wallace> Okay, I'll work on it. Thanks psha.
[21:55:30] <psha> copy all gs2_vfd.c rules and replace with your own name
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[21:55:51] <danimal_garage> sweet, this control pannel this guy gave me will fit my monitor and keyboard
[21:56:12] <kirk_wallace> Cool:)
[21:56:12] <danimal_garage> has a bunch of really nice buttons and a load meter
[21:56:33] <psha> however you need to compile from two files (your.o and modbus.o) so it's a bit tricky not to include modbus.c into objectgs twice
[21:56:37] <danimal_garage> it says SAJO on it
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[22:02:02] <kirk_wallace> It looks like it's going to take all day to figure out what the submake does, but I'll keep the modbus.o issue in mind. Is this something #ifdef does?
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[22:02:47] <psha> kirk_wallace: in submake?
[22:02:51] <psha> there is no ifdefs
[22:02:57] <psha> onli ifeq
[22:03:06] <psha> which is safe to ignore - just don't go inside it :)
[22:05:07] <kirk_wallace> Just in case, we are talking about: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/user_comps/Submakefile;h=0c311ac2153313d655842157ad0ae649b90fea02;hb=e0fbe2669c1bc7b320b738f72ee15abe868aa5a9 ?
[22:06:08] <psha> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/user_comps/Submakefile
[22:06:28] <psha> difference is subtle
[22:10:28] <damik1> I recently updated a machine from 8.04 (installed via emc2 live iso) to 10.04 using the update manager. I then installed emc2 from source. There seems to be leftover files causing emc to require the 2.6.24-16-rtai kernel. Where would I find these files to clear this issue?
[22:11:47] <psha> remove old emc2 package
[22:14:33] <damik1> Tried that already, failed to change problem. I even installed grub2 and changed in /etc/default/grub the line GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash lapic" and no change.
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[22:21:43] <kirk_wallace> damik1: Sorry I can't help much. I usually just wipe the drive and start over from scratch.
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[22:23:21] <damik1> Thanks anyways. Wonderful are the joys shareware software can cause...
[22:25:17] <psha> damik1: grub2 or grub don't influence emc
[22:25:24] <psha> it's just bootloader
[22:25:33] <psha> check that no emc2 packages are left inside
[22:25:45] <psha> also you need new rtai kernel from 10.04
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[22:26:11] <kirk_wallace> I recall having to tell grub to boot the new rt kernel rather than the plain kernel.
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[22:32:57] <kirk_wallace> The opening page to the wiki has "Upgrading from Ubuntu 8.04 to 10.04 will remove emc2 If you use the Ubuntu updater to upgrade from 8.04 to 10.04, it will remove the emc2 packages. " I'm not sure this applies, but it might.
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[22:36:10] <damik1> I am using the 2.6.32-122-rtai kernel but emc wants the kernel from hardy. I will contact the software company in the morning and see about transfering the software license. If I can, then I will simply do a clean install of 10.04.
[22:36:21] <rooks> why wont you put emc on top of ubuntu studio instead of doing own modifications to the plain ubuntu? it has rt kernel iirc
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[22:37:44] <damik1> Depends on how tomorrow moring goes I may have to look into that.
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[22:40:11] <kirk_wallace> If we are talking about Ubuntu Linux and EMC2, there are no licenses. What does "uname -a" return?
[22:40:24] <Connor> okay. so, I'm having issue with Tool Changes..
[22:40:49] <Connor> system pauses and asks to put the new tool in, but I can't jog or anything till I click okay..
[22:41:01] <Connor> what exactly is suppose to happen?
[22:41:35] <Connor> I want it to raise the Z axis all the way up, turn off the spindle.. and go to a "safe" position/
[22:42:15] <Connor> and, then of course, how do you deal with touching off the Z again after changing out the tool.
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[22:43:48] <kirk_wallace> Normally, the motion component stops during a tool change. There has been some talk about this issue, but I don't know where it is now.
[22:45:00] <andypugh> Connor: There is an INI file option to move the machine to a designated position for toolchange.
[22:45:19] <Connor> I guess I could alter the GCode and insert commands to turn off the spindle, send it to a exact position.. and then return to the location it was at.. but, that's a pain.. and that doesn't take into account the issue with retouching Z
[22:46:17] <andypugh> Currently there is no way to manually touch-off Z during a toolchange. If you have tools of inconsistent lengths then it is simplest (if inelegant) to break the program up into sections.
[22:47:05] <Connor> Yea, that's what I do now.. I CAM each tool in sequences..
[22:47:10] <Connor> but, that's just a pain...
[22:47:23] <andypugh> Have a look at http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BEMCIO%5D-Section for toolchange quill action options
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[22:49:04] <andypugh> I think it should be possible to define a subroutine to touch-off the current tool after the toolchange to a switch/plate using probing and G10, but I have never tried it.
[22:50:09] <Connor> For milling and drilling PCB's, it's no big deal, because all my drills and endmills have depth rings on them.
[22:50:38] <Connor> but, when switching between my 1/4 and 1/8 endmills (which also requires a collect change), that's the fun part...
[22:50:40] <andypugh> Ah well, in that case you can use the tool table, and all is good.
[22:51:00] <andypugh> Do you have a lathe?
[22:51:16] <Connor> no. Just my DIY CNC router.
[22:51:32] <andypugh> You could make solid collets to hold the endmills (grub-screws). Then they would always be at the same depth.
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[22:52:08] <andypugh> You _could_ use a CNC router as a CNC lathe. If you were a loony.
[22:52:40] <andypugh> Clamp a lathe tool to the table, hold the work in a chuck...
[22:53:09] <kirk_wallace> It's not that loony, is it?
[22:53:17] <Connor> Umm. No. I would need to add a 4th Axis to it.. and need slower spindle than my Bosch... I need to get that PID Speed controller built so I can run it at 5krpm so I can do aluminum.
[22:53:50] <Connor> at 15-30krpm it is.
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[22:54:44] <kirk_wallace> Is the Bosch a brushed motor?
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[22:55:30] <Connor> I used the router one day to spin a round pvc disk.. and was using a xacto knife as a tool bit.. I'm lucky it didn't embed the blade in my forehead when it broke..
[22:55:31] <andypugh> Connor: No need for a 4th axis, surely?
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[22:55:58] <Connor> kirk_wallace: Yea, the Bosch uses a brushed motor.
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[22:56:09] <Connor> andypugh: I think it would work better.
[22:56:37] <Connor> My machine has 6" of clearance with the Gantry and 4.5" of Z travel...
[22:57:04] <andypugh> If only you knew someone with a CNC lathe who could make you some solid collets. The trouble is finding where the CNC lathe owners hang out....
[22:57:05] <kirk_wallace> Then a cheap SCR speed controller should slow it down. ?
[22:58:22] <Connor> I would need to by-pass the Triac inside the router, which I plan to do.. BUt, I want a PID based speed controller.
[22:58:58] <Connor> andypugh: I'm going to be buying a 7x16 mini lathe and a G0704 Mill at some point.
[22:59:36] <andypugh> I am going to be selling a 7x24 mini-lathe at some point.
[23:00:26] <andypugh> It's got a mill on the top too.
[23:00:36] <Connor> Those mini lathe's are pretty enexpinsive.
[23:00:41] <Connor> cool, which one ?
[23:01:02] <andypugh> The one in my Youtube videos.
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[23:01:30] <andypugh> I want a proper machine tool, made from enough metal, by folk who had a clue.
[23:01:45] <Connor> youtube page ?
[23:02:29] <andypugh> This shows it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4
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[23:03:06] <andypugh> Though the Z axis is more elegant now, as can be seen in the bldc movie.
[23:03:32] <Connor> nice looking machine...
[23:03:36] <kirk_wallace> So the router has a speed controller already built in? Why not use it, short term, to make the holders that might let you use the tool change in emc2?
[23:04:05] <Connor> kirk_wallace: I do, but, it can only go down to around 15k... with a PID based one, I could go down to around 5k
[23:04:42] <andypugh> Use adaptive feed to drag the speed down :)
[23:05:00] <Connor> adaptive feed ?
[23:06:02] <andypugh> EMC2 lets you use an external input to control the feedrate. Normally you would use the spindle current to limit the feed. What I proposed was inverting that. It was not a serious suggestion.
[23:07:37] <Connor> I don't follow.. but, that's okay... My plan was to build a Zero Crossover detection circuit.. and in conjunction with a SSR and EMC and my RPM sensor, have it do PID
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[23:08:18] <kirk_wallace> I'm lost,just for my understanding, how is PID going to let you go below 15k? Can the router presently physically go below 15k?
[23:09:16] <andypugh> Rather than buy a brand-new Grizzly, I would stringly suggest looking at a second hand "real" machine.
[23:11:29] <Connor> kirk_wallace: The existing speed controller won't let you go below 15k.. but, people using the Super-PID controller, are able to get a Bosch, and other routers, down to around 5k without loosing torque.
[23:11:57] <Connor> andypugh: real machines are bigger.. and which one talking about, the Mill, or mini lathe?
[23:12:07] <andypugh> Both, really.
[23:12:13] <Connor> My workshop is only about 11'x 7'
[23:12:20] <andypugh> So is mine.
[23:12:33] <Connor> what do you consider a real machine ?
[23:13:19] <andypugh> Made from cast iron, in Yorkshire, between 1950 and 1975 (But I will let you buy an American one)
[23:14:06] <Connor> 11' x 7', with a 7' x 39" stainless steel bench, a hot water heater, a radial arm saw, bench top drill press and bandsaw.
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[23:15:06] <Connor> I have hardly any room.. the drill press will probably go away when I get the mill.. the radial arm saw is going to get converted into a panel saw on the wall so i can cut down MDF to use in my CNC router..
[23:15:07] <bill20r3> if less that 2 people have died at it's hands, forget it!
[23:16:04] <andypugh> A Deckel FP1 will take up about the same space as your Grizzly, but that cost $20,000 new.
[23:16:11] <Connor> that 704 is same size as X3 I think.
[23:16:35] <Connor> Yea.. Umm.. I'm only around 1/2 way to getting that 704, without tools..
[23:16:39] <andypugh> OK, so they still cost quite a lot more, but my Harrison is much the same size and is made properly.
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[23:17:51] <andypugh> Here is the previous owner of my mill, and the machine. About the same size as the Grizzly. 5x the mass. https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5487196619890947634
[23:18:22] <Connor> That's alot bigger than what I'm looking at...
[23:19:06] <andypugh> The differences are: Oil filled head, precision spindle bearings, coolant pump, designed to do a job rather than be immensely cheap to make.
[23:20:12] <Connor> I'm a hobbiest, using this stuff to make parts and stuff for robots and the such... If I was going this for a living I could see it.. but, not for what I'm doing.
[23:20:25] <andypugh> Those mini-mills and mini-lathes rely on you remembering to dribble some oil into the bearings (which are basically car wheel bearings). In the case of my lathe they hadn't even bothered drilling one of the oil holes all the way through.
[23:20:45] <Connor> anyway.. back to problems at hand.. I need to fix issue with tool changes, and build my zero crossover detection circuit.
[23:21:08] <andypugh> I am a hobbyist too. In fact I have rather forgotten what I wanted the machines for in the first place.
[23:21:41] <Connor> back in a bit, need to run to store and Radio Shack to get some resitors.
[23:21:47] <Connor> resistors.
[23:22:03] <andypugh> But anytime I use the Colchester Student lathe in the fire engine club garage I realise what a heap of junk my chinese mini-lathe is.
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[23:24:48] <kirk_wallace> The old iron can be nice, if you can find it, is affordable and you can move it. I got really lucky a couple of times.
[23:25:36] <andypugh> I want a Willson lathe. Slantbed manual from the 50s. Look like a nice conversion candidate.
[23:27:08] <andypugh> They already have a neat leadscrew cover, for example. http://www.lathes.co.uk/willson/index.html
[23:27:52] <kirk_wallace> I'm still curious about the issues with slowing routers down. I would think if you lower the voltage, there might be a danger of overheating with a load.
[23:28:05] <andypugh> I need to find a broken one. The problem with the old iron is that it is too nice to throw any parts away.
[23:29:11] <kirk_wallace> Leave it to the Brits to slant the bed the wrong way.:) ?
[23:29:47] <andypugh> It's a manual, and the slant is to fit in bigger work
[23:30:27] <kirk_wallace> If you say so;)
[23:31:51] <kirk_wallace> This makes me cringe: http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/scrapiron03.html
[23:31:54] <andypugh> Tonights big question is whether I need to buy this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Magnifique-tete-aleser-Wohlhaupter-UPA3-MK3-CM3-/260744447389
[23:32:25] <andypugh> I already have it's (Much too) bigger brother.
[23:33:41] <kirk_wallace> That's one of those fancy facing types, isn't it?
[23:34:20] <andypugh> Poor lathe! But then I don't really see much future for plain-bearing flat-belt-lineshafting lathes.
[23:35:00] <andypugh> Aye, it's a facing head. I have a plan to CNC convert one, then sell the idea back to Wohlhaupter.
[23:35:59] <andypugh> The UPA 4 I have is quite the most nicely-made thing I have ever handled.
[23:37:32] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5565840660809484850 (et. seq.)
[23:40:29] <kirk_wallace> That one had a bent shaft or some such thing?
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[23:47:28] <andypugh> No, it's lovely but a) huge and b) doesn't have the removable shank
[23:49:46] <kirk_wallace> What is your plan for converting a boring bar to CNC?
[23:50:47] <andypugh> I would rather not say, at the moment. (prior art>)
[23:51:20] <kirk_wallace> So you are serious?
[23:51:24] <andypugh> Very.
[23:51:53] <andypugh> So quibbling over 300 euros is possibly silly.
[23:52:54] <andypugh> If it works I think it is the best idea I have had. It would convert any of the detachable-shank Wohlhaupters to CNC.
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[23:55:28] <kirk_wallace> I'm a slut when it comes to tools and machinery, so I can't offer good advise on whether or not to buy something. Exhibit A: http://www.wallacecompany.com/old_lathe/front-2a.jpg
[23:56:10] <andypugh> My reticence is based purely on a rather poor understanding of patent law. I would never dream of preventing any EMC2 user from using the idea. (or anyone else, as long as they don't get rich from it)
[23:56:57] <andypugh> Isn't that exactly the same lathe that Lionel smashed up?
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[23:58:19] <kirk_wallace> You can be too careful. Laws and regulations have a way of coming back at you in unexpected ways.
[23:59:13] <andypugh> I have a very similar vintage Colchester Triumph. I have to say that a 6tpi cross-slide leadscrew and a 1" diameter thimble does rather limit its usefullness.