#emc | Logs for 2011-02-07

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[00:02:53] <Tom_L> :/
[00:02:55] <Tom_L> missed him
[00:03:20] <Tom_L> laen runs the dorkbot board order thing
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[00:20:57] <jrshaul> Does anyone know a wood that machines like a metal?
[00:21:34] <jrshaul> I'm learning about using CNC machines, and from what I understand, wood is limited heavily by spindle speed - hence very different routers.
[00:23:45] <Tom_L> different rakes on the cutters
[00:23:56] <Tom_L> different speeds and feeds
[00:24:18] <Tom_L> if you just wanna practice use some pine
[00:24:21] <Tom_L> it's soft
[00:24:59] <Valen> MDF has no grain
[00:25:14] <Tom_L> the glue will dull the cutters quicker
[00:26:06] <jrshaul> Pine?
[00:26:21] <jrshaul> Is there a cheap wood-appropriate endmill out there?
[00:26:26] <Valen> we use carbide, seems to work ok so far ;->
[00:26:38] <Tom_L> yeah carbide would
[00:27:01] <Valen> we have to limit the spindle speed so we dont burn it
[00:27:36] <Tom_L> how do you like the new spindle motor by now?
[00:27:37] <Valen> the wood that is
[00:27:43] <Valen> seems to be working well so far
[00:27:50] <Valen> has cut alot of MDF and a decent amount of Al
[00:28:06] <Tom_L> plenty of torque?
[00:28:25] <Valen> did a .1mm cut in Al with a 12mm cutter, it didn't seem to notice
[00:28:32] <Valen> havent tried steel yet
[00:28:58] <jrshaul> The issue is that I have what amounts to a CNC Bridgeport - old fashioned knee mill sort of thing.
[00:36:40] <Valen> its pretty soft you can take pretty big cuts
[00:37:05] <Valen> going to put a camera on the mill for centering now
[00:41:32] <Tom_L> Valen, how does that work?
[00:41:45] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&diff=3&id=Axis_Embed_Video
[00:45:58] <jrshaul> I have an oval aluminumtube roughly 3" x 6" with 1/8" thick walls.
[00:46:06] <jrshaul> Is there a tool I can use to cut neat slices from it
[00:46:07] <jrshaul> ?
[00:46:28] <Tom_L> interesting
[00:46:46] <Tom_L> saw slitter
[00:46:49] <Tom_L> bandsaw
[00:46:52] <Tom_L> table saw
[00:47:13] <Tom_L> holding it might be an issue
[00:49:31] <emcrules_> anybody familiar with hal_input?
[00:49:37] <Tom_L> Valen, emc looks complex
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[00:57:42] <KimK> jrshaul: If you're really serious about cutting your tube with no distortion and no cutting forces, and low speed and high cost are not issues, what you want is EDM.
[00:57:42] <jrshaul> What kind of bandsaw?
[00:57:58] <jrshaul> I just need it to look okay after a little sanding and polishing.
[00:59:01] <KimK> Oh, and you won't have to polish it afterward, unless you want a mirror finish or something
[01:02:03] <jrshaul> Ican't afford edm.
[01:02:09] <KimK> You have to be able to fit the tube in the tank, so length might be an issue. How long is it?
[01:03:35] <KimK> Ah, OK. Wood support plugs to slip down the tube while bandsawing then?
[01:04:09] <KimK> Maybe just one plug if you're careful?
[01:07:36] <Tom_L> that's the idea
[01:09:25] <Tom_L> Valen do you use that for finding center alot?
[01:12:43] <emcrules_> KimK: have you used a joypad in emc?
[01:13:40] <KimK> No, I haven't. They look interesting though.
[01:15:50] <emcrules_> Im trying to get a pokeys55 to work with emc. Its a board that has 55 digital inputs that can be mapped to a keyboard or joystick profile via usb.
[01:16:18] <emcrules_> I have it configured and able to see the pins in hal
[01:17:25] <emcrules_> but if i push a button or turn a switch the pin will change state and and stay in that state regardless of switch or button position
[01:18:51] <emcrules_> http://imagebin.org/136494
[01:20:42] <Tom_L> do the pins need pullup, pulldowns on them?
[01:20:46] <kb8wmc> is the joypad USB?
[01:20:48] <emcrules_> The board is configured and mapped in windoze and everything reads fine. But when i plug it into my emc box I get the above issue
[01:21:37] <emcrules_> yes joypads are usb, but i am using something else
[01:22:19] <kb8wmc> I have an old Logitech Thunderpad which is a 15 pin
[01:22:50] morfic is now known as Machinist
[01:22:50] <kb8wmc> I might like to get it working under emc someday
[01:22:59] <emcrules_> TomL: no the pullups are on the board and set via the configuration software
[01:23:57] <emcrules_> http://www.poscope.com/search.php?q=PoKeys55-T
[01:23:57] <Tom_L> ok
[01:24:47] Machinist is now known as morfic
[01:27:10] <emcrules_> kb8wmc, just get a usb logitech!! they work fine with emc. They can be picked up around here for 20 bucks.
[01:27:56] <kb8wmc> ok...tnx for info, but what will I then do with this old klunker?....lol
[01:28:13] <Tom_L> ebay :D
[01:28:28] <kb8wmc> yeah, an antique on ebay
[01:29:35] <emcrules_> I let my kids play with the old stuff. They had a blast with an old nintendo NES
[01:30:04] <kb8wmc> I bet they did
[01:30:13] <emcrules_> tey play it more than thier wii
[01:30:56] <kb8wmc> probably ask, "dad, did people really use stuff like this?"
[01:31:38] <emcrules_> lol he couldn't believe that i never had one
[01:31:59] <kb8wmc> yes sir...
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[05:24:45] <UnderSampled> anyone ever try one of these for an emc machine?
[05:24:47] <UnderSampled> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007623&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&CompareItemList=446|13-157-209^13-157-209-TS%2C13-153-190^13-153-190-TS%2C13-186-204^13-186-204-TS%2C13-138-187^13-138-187-TS
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[07:17:53] <Valen_cnc> ey PCW any pointers on linking that velocity into the pid? the sample in the 2.5 master doesn't seem to have it in it
[07:18:49] <Valen_cnc> ahh think imight have it
[07:24:39] * Valen_cnc is learning to fish
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[07:42:47] <Valen_cnc> yay all seems to work
[07:42:58] <Valen_cnc> reduced noise from D in output by half
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[09:19:23] <Maukka> Hello, can anyone help me whit pluto p, it works on 8.04 livecd but doesn`t work whit 10.04 livecd or asembled..
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[12:15:46] <pingufan> Hi, I am still fighting to get my CNC mill shutting off the PC's power after reaching runlevel 0. This is "Ubuntu Hardy" and a VIA EPIA M 10000 mainboard (a little bit older hardware).
[12:16:32] <pingufan> I tried several things, but the power remains on.
[12:20:11] <Tom_itx> does that MB work ok with emc?
[12:20:15] <Tom_itx> i happen to have one
[12:21:00] <Tom_itx> err mine's the EPIA MII 10000
[12:26:50] <pingufan> Yes, it works fine with emc.
[12:27:08] <pingufan> But the BIOS seems to be a little bit ancient.
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[12:27:59] <mrsunshine_> i need to learn to have more paitience with castings :/
[12:28:15] <mrsunshine_> ripped the sprue off it cause i thoguht it was cool enough .. well as the sprew came lose it wasnt :P
[12:28:24] <mrsunshine_> so now my casting has a big hole in it :P
[12:28:37] <archivist> cut dont break :)
[12:28:51] <mrsunshine_> archivist, well ... i didnt break :P or well i did
[12:28:57] <mrsunshine_> the metal hadnt solidfied yet :P
[12:29:02] <mrsunshine_> still i can make use of it
[12:29:10] <mrsunshine_> as its solid enough where it needs to be
[12:29:15] <archivist> or cast another
[12:29:17] <mrsunshine_> just turn that side down so people dont see it :P
[12:29:25] <mrsunshine_> archivist, then i have to make a new pattern ... again :P
[12:29:42] <mrsunshine_> the pink foam seems a bit thick to use tho :(
[12:29:48] * archivist hugs solid patterns and sand
[12:29:57] <mrsunshine_> as it took like 30 secs for the metal to eat to the vent holes
[12:30:10] <mrsunshine_> archivist, yes, think im gonna continue with my sand pattern :P
[12:30:24] <mrsunshine_> its so much easier to get good
[12:30:26] <mrsunshine_> imo =)
[12:30:41] <mrsunshine_> tho this one would have been good if i didnt rip it to pieces :P
[12:30:44] <mrsunshine_> its perfect otherwise
[12:31:02] <archivist> filler...paint....
[12:32:07] <mrsunshine_> i should just get myself a 2 degree tapered endmill and just mill out the parts
[12:32:17] <mrsunshine_> tho this one is hard to mill out as its a new motormount and i have no motor on the mill :P
[12:50:06] <alex_joni> pingufan: what ubuntu/emc2 version do you have installed?
[12:52:25] <pingufan> 2.6.24-16-rtai kernel
[12:52:48] <pingufan> It is not the latest one, as it does not support the onboard graphics.
[12:53:46] <pingufan> I guess this is "Hardy"
[12:54:58] <pingufan> The BIOS on this board is a little bit different to usual BIOSes. <CTRL>-<1> to enter it, I see nothing about ACPI.
[12:55:05] <alex_joni> the bios doesn't matter
[12:55:15] <alex_joni> the problem is that the 8.04 kernel is compiled without ACPI
[12:55:26] <alex_joni> so there is nothing you can do to make it shut down completely
[12:55:49] <alex_joni> (except use the power switch after it stopped - keep it pushed for 4 seconds to switch it off)
[12:56:06] <pingufan> Oh! What a surprise. :(
[12:56:19] <alex_joni> I don't really see the problem to be honest
[12:56:36] <alex_joni> it's not like you shut it down many times per day...
[12:56:46] <pingufan> It is no problem, I was only wondering about "why"...
[12:57:07] <alex_joni> leaving ACPI turned off is a safer bet regarding latency
[12:57:28] <alex_joni> for the latest kernel some minimal set of ACPI has been enabled, so that SMP works too
[12:57:46] <alex_joni> you could in theory recompile the 8.04 kernel, but I don't think it's worth the hassle
[12:58:33] <pingufan> Ok. So I will use the power button. I was only wondering wh it doesn't shut off and was afraid this is a faulty hardware therefore, but now I am relaxed.
[13:00:37] <pingufan> I see problems arising because the newer Ubuntu does not work with the onboard graphics at all is this a known issue? The mainboard uses a CLR266 chipset or something like that).
[13:01:00] <pingufan> CLE266 chipset
[13:01:07] <Tom_itx> pingufan, is your board like this one? http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/itx/EPIA-MII-top.jpg
[13:01:15] <Tom_itx> i may be using that with emc soon
[13:02:06] <pingufan> No. It has no sockets for CF+PCMCIA.
[13:02:22] <Tom_itx> yours must be an older one than that then
[13:02:58] <pingufan> possibly, yes. But it works like a charm. I have good latency values.
[13:03:20] <Tom_itx> i may give it a try. i plan to get an atom when i get back from vacation anyway
[13:03:31] <pingufan> Forget atom.
[13:03:40] <Tom_itx> why?
[13:03:50] <Tom_itx> i was looking at the D525 or the D510
[13:03:57] <pingufan> I prefer AMD
[13:04:01] <Tom_itx> some here say it works fine
[13:04:15] <Tom_itx> in a itx form factor?
[13:04:55] <pingufan> must it be mini-itx or do you have a little bit more space, too?
[13:05:09] <Tom_itx> i wanted a mini itx
[13:05:28] <Tom_itx> i could make space if i had to
[13:05:29] <pingufan> What do you want to control with it?
[13:05:37] <Tom_itx> steppers
[13:05:48] <Tom_itx> and a gecko driver board i think
[13:05:51] <pingufan> My mill is exactly that.
[13:06:19] <pingufan> 900mm/minute is no problem.
[13:06:55] <pingufan> http://www.google.at/imgres?imgurl=http://yann.morere.free.fr/images/epia-m2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://yann.morere.free.fr/spip.php%3Farticle83&usg=__fNQBtywr7MnoRGZWS5xxRwFLs1c=&h=550&w=500&sz=258&hl=de&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=TDdqlEnkm7H19M:&tbnh=154&tbnw=140&ei=WO5PTerXIsmytAbe4PCjDw&prev=/images%3Fq%3DEPIA%2BM%2B10000%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26biw%3D986%26bih%3D610%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=552&vpy=67&dur=6190&hovh=235&hovw=214&tx=128&ty=98&
[13:06:56] <pingufan> oei=WO5PTerXIsmytAbe4PCjDw&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0
[13:07:02] <pingufan> this is my mainboard.
[13:07:34] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/GeckorDriver.html
[13:07:43] <Tom_itx> i'm looking at the G540
[13:09:07] <Tom_itx> or possibly the KL-6050's on that page: http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriver.html
[13:09:42] <psha> http://yann.morere.free.fr/images/epia-m2.jpg
[13:09:50] <psha> is not this link shorter? :))
[13:09:56] <pingufan> I bought three independent stepper drives (G251x) directly from gecko and built my own adapter board. This was cheaper, because the complete boxes include 4 drives.
[13:10:31] <psha> pingufan: no reasons to hate atoms - they are not perfect as CPU's for workstations but as EMC computer they are perfect
[13:10:52] <psha> low latency, low power consumtion, zero noise, low TDP
[13:11:04] <psha> and cheap :)
[13:11:04] <pingufan> I have a mental problem with Intel in general. ;)
[13:11:18] <pingufan> Cheap?
[13:11:30] <psha> i'm using AMD chips for a long but refusing something based on ideological positions is not wise :)
[13:11:32] <Tom_itx> so psha, the D525 or the D510?
[13:11:33] <psha> yes
[13:11:45] <pingufan> I payed 50 Euros for the whole MoBo with C3 CPU!
[13:12:10] <psha> Tom_itx: D510 is known to work, D525 - not :) so if you feel yourself strong enought to experiment - take 525 :)
[13:12:26] <Tom_itx> they're $5 difference in cost
[13:12:30] <Tom_itx> it's a toss up for me
[13:12:42] <Tom_itx> i can always fall back on the epia board
[13:12:49] <Tom_itx> as it seems to work
[13:12:59] <psha> pingufan: 2350rur for dual core atom board it's nearly 75eur
[13:13:11] <psha> oops, ~80
[13:13:19] <pingufan> Hehe
[13:13:26] <pingufan> NOT cheap.
[13:13:27] <psha> hm, 60 :)
[13:13:28] <psha> sorry
[13:14:01] <psha> and here we have sligtly higher prices
[13:14:15] <psha> so i guess 50 eur is normal prices for atom boards
[13:14:27] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442&cm_re=atom_d525-_-13-121-442-_-Product
[13:14:37] <psha> single core is 51eur
[13:14:48] <pingufan> No. You have to add board + CPU costs, then you are somewhere aroung 100,-- Euro.
[13:14:52] <psha> that's average prices - not minimum
[13:15:04] <psha> pingufan: atom's are soldered
[13:15:18] <psha> you need to buy only memory
[13:15:55] <pingufan> Ok. But (I'm computer reseller) I never saw something below 80,-- w/o taxes as reseller(!) price
[13:16:18] <psha> i've spent ~100eur for whole computer with case & bells & wistles
[13:16:27] <pingufan> :D
[13:16:28] <Tom_itx> it's $84 US at newegg
[13:16:29] <psha> dual core atom, 1gb memory, case
[13:16:43] <Tom_itx> and $79 for the D510
[13:18:31] <Tom_itx> psha, you using the picopsu?
[13:18:54] <psha> no, external adaptor + internal voltage convertor
[13:19:27] <pingufan> Like me. :P
[13:19:48] <pingufan> My computer is smaller than a package of paper.
[13:20:23] <psha> pingufan: that depends on size of paper ;)
[13:20:33] <psha> Tom_itx: http://www.dont.ru/Konverter-DC-ATX-80W-(KIM-DCP180)-(bez-kabelej)-p/n:-112294.id12486.html
[13:20:36] <psha> something like this
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[13:20:45] <pingufan> 20x20x6 cm - estimated.
[13:22:56] <pingufan> here's a picture: http://www.hantsch.co.at/_temp/1340mi-large.jpg
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[13:23:12] <alex_joni> Jymmm: ping
[13:24:58] <psha> nice case
[13:25:22] <psha> i've bought cheapest one so it's a bit larger :)
[13:28:14] <pingufan> Can you tell me how I can get this crazy gnome to behave more like a KDE? I.e. single left-klick instead of doubleclick?
[13:29:16] <pingufan> Can I remote-control the whole desktop? In SuSE I use x11vnc and launch it from kde's autostart.
[13:30:35] <pingufan> I ask because I don't want to overburden the system or harm its realtime
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[13:36:28] <psha> don't know... i'm using ion/fluxbox... and xfce on my wife's session
[13:37:58] <pingufan> Do you pherhaps know if Gnome has a autostart folder?
[13:38:49] <pingufan> Whow - I love kde more and more...
[13:45:07] <psha> http://specifications.freedesktop.org/autostart-spec/autostart-spec-latest.html#id2452086
[13:45:18] <psha> i guess gnome honors this part of xdg
[13:55:07] <pingufan> Thank you.
[13:58:27] <pingufan> Whow - Gnome doesn't want to start .sh files directly from its autostart. Yo need a .desktop file which references the .sh script. That's really "smart".
[13:58:36] <pingufan> But it works now.
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[14:03:33] <psha> pingufan: it's targeted on 'point and click' users, not placing .sh scritp
[14:03:54] <psha> and most of DE have 'add shortcut' menu item
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[15:25:33] <awallin_> cradek, anyone: is there a way to make true-type-tracer output only G1-type linear moves ?
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[15:48:22] <cradek> awallin_: it did that a long time ago - you'd either have to find that version or hack it up.
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[15:48:39] <cradek> in dxf mode, it makes arcs
[15:50:24] <awallin_> ok, I am working on some 2D offsetting, and at some point I will need sample-data
[15:50:32] <awallin_> eventually the offset-routine might handle arcs
[15:50:41] <awallin_> now it handles points, not even line segments :)
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[15:51:23] <awallin_> but you can fake line-segments by lots and lots of points along the line-segment...
[15:55:09] <cradek> funny - people often split arcs into lines (usually a bad idea) but I've never heard of "splitting" lines into points
[15:55:44] <cradek> heeks uses a library that does decent offsetting - forget what it's called
[15:56:09] <cradek> I think it breaks arcs into lines, offsets those, then looks for arc-like sets of lines and changes them back to arcs (shudder)
[15:57:46] <awallin_> yes, libarea
[15:58:02] <awallin_> which is based on something else... for boolean polygon operations
[15:58:14] <awallin_> my current approach is via the voronoi-diagram
[15:59:06] <cradek> how does that give offsetting?
[16:00:12] <awallin_> within one voronoi-region the offset is simple (a line, or a circular arc)
[16:00:48] <awallin_> http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/held2009_screenshot.png
[16:01:31] <cradek> interesting - you end up with paths like would be useful for V-carving
[16:03:23] <awallin_> here's another one: http://www.cgal.org/Manual/latest/doc_html/cgal_manual/Straight_skeleton_2/StraightSkeleton.png
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[16:04:33] <awallin_> bbl
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[16:05:12] <mrsunshine_> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121445 <-- 649 bucks? :P
[16:05:40] <cradek> that doesn't seem right
[16:07:01] <psha> they forgot dot between 64 and 9...
[16:08:31] <JT-Work> might be a pack of 10
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[16:17:07] <L84Supper> New Egg seems to have great pricing on everything except mini-itx cases
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[16:19:25] <JT-Work> I've bought 3 of these http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[16:26:05] <L84Supper> http://www.e-itx.com/ep3000u2.html I've been looking for these aluminum cases that have just PS + board
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[16:40:13] <danimal_garage> JT-Work, i like that case
[16:41:29] <danimal_garage> i got one of those d510mo atoms... i'm trying to figure out what to put it in, or if i should just mount it in the enclosure
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[16:57:08] <Connor> JT-Work: That's the exact case I have for my CNC.
[16:57:13] <Connor> Very nice case.
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[16:58:29] <Connor> You can even mount a full 120MM fan in it on one side if you don't need to use the Hard Drive slot located there. ( Note: It's not MENT to be mounted.. but, fix perfectly )
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[17:02:26] <L84Supper> The SDIO latency from the interrupt being signaled to the interrupt being cleared is about 130 us on an Samsung ARM S3C24A0 processor with 200 MHz ARM926 core, SDIO CMD/response packet is 48 bits, at 25 MHz = 4uS
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[17:03:14] <L84Supper> the SDIO interrupt signal to clear time will get shorter based on a faster cpu core
[17:03:51] <L84Supper> the 4uS SDIO CMD/response packet will stay the same since it's determined by bus clock speed
[17:04:12] <L84Supper> not sure what the latency jitter is yet
[17:05:12] <L84Supper> but trying to use EMC on ARM over SDIO might only be feasible for servos
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[17:18:11] <JT-Work> danimal_garage: that case is neat as it has the power supply built in
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[17:19:43] <Tom_itx> 250w is kinda big for a mini itx
[17:19:45] <Tom_itx> isn't it?
[17:20:15] <JT-Work> dang if I know
[17:20:34] <Tom_itx> it won't use more than it needs but still
[17:20:59] <emcrules_mobile> have you guys seen the pico psu?
[17:20:59] <Tom_itx> that's cheaper than a picopsu though
[17:21:11] <Tom_itx> emcrules_mobile i use one on this pc
[17:21:51] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/itx/itx3.JPG
[17:21:53] <emcrules_mobile> how do you like it I bought one but it hasn't come in yet
[17:22:04] <Tom_itx> it just works
[17:22:12] <Tom_itx> mine is the 120
[17:22:25] <Tom_itx> got a 8A switcher wart to plug into it
[17:22:43] <Tom_itx> uses maybe 1.5A at 12v
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[17:22:47] <Tom_itx> with the drives etc
[17:23:13] <emcrules_mobile> I bought the 80 so I can power it from a 24 v source
[17:23:50] <Tom_itx> well the MB is obsolete if that tells you how long i've had it
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[17:24:26] <Tom_itx> runs 24/7
[17:24:27] <emcrules_mobile> had a custom made case to hold the cpu and all of my mesa hardware. its going to be slick
[17:25:11] <emcrules_mobile> good to know
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[17:57:00] <Jymmm> alex_joni: pong
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[18:06:30] <JT-Work> how do I tell what kind of memory my winblows computer has in it like DDR800 etc
[18:06:44] <alex_joni> JT-Work: cpuid
[18:06:56] <Tom_itx> yeah, that.
[18:07:11] <JT-Work> from a terminal?
[18:07:18] <alex_joni> http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html
[18:07:29] <alex_joni> JT-Work: nah, it's a small gui (no need to install it)
[18:07:32] <JT-Work> thanks
[18:08:18] <Tom_itx> it has a latency.exe with it too iirc
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[18:08:36] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[18:09:02] <IchGuckLive> nice game and great commercals yesterday at the Superbowl
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[18:17:35] <JT-Work> half time made me puke :/
[18:19:38] <IchGuckLive> 3rd quater wars the best at 2:45 here in germany
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[18:39:38] <the_wench> PCW: Valen said Thanks for that, I'll give it a go
[18:49:32] <IchGuckLive> new info on Heekscad mow the V0.16 works perfect to ubuntu with CRC code to EMC2 TESTET on 10.04
[18:50:05] <JT-Work> nice
[18:50:21] <IchGuckLive> pocket is fixt
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[19:02:55] <mrsunshine_> yeey made me a batch of machinable wax =)
[19:03:12] <mrsunshine_> easy and nice material, havent tried milling yet tho as i do not have a motor on the mill :P
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[19:23:58] <alex_joni> http://www.envisionmotorcompany.com/
[19:24:23] <alex_joni> the cars are built in .ro, and waaay cheaper than that (but not electric)
[19:33:15] <PCW> Wow! Nickle sodium batteries pretty exotic...
[19:34:04] <JT-Work> I wonder what the range is at highway speeds
[19:35:03] <PCW> Says 200 mile range (no speed given)
[19:38:17] <JT-Work> the interior shot of the truck shows a clutch... I wonder what you need a clutch for in an electric vehicle?
[19:39:37] <PCW> Batteries have 270C operating temperature and lose14% per day to maintain internal temperature so no good if not used every day
[19:39:38] <PCW> (picture is probably of gas vehicle I doubt they have shippable product but that's just my cynicism)
[19:40:04] <JT-Work> that's what I thought too
[19:40:46] <PCW> looking for lots of pre-orders
[19:41:02] <JT-Work> have to charge it once a week to let it sit in the garage I guess
[19:42:42] <PCW> Not completely sure but thats what I get by googling Sodium Nickle chloride batteries (also 24 hour to run from cold start)
[19:43:26] <kb8wmc> expensive batteries huh? check out these batteries: http://zappworks.com/battery_prices.htm
[19:44:20] <Connor> WTF
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[20:02:55] <Jymmm> Did you see this: "Changing the electrolytes can be expected every twenty years (20) years."
[20:08:06] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-iron_battery
[20:09:07] <kb8wmc> Jymmm: there are a few of the Edison batteries still in full operation from shortly after the turn of the century, the last century
[20:09:37] <Jymmm> Cool, ust never heard of Ni-Fe batteries before
[20:13:12] <archivist> I have some here, keep thinking shall I play with them see if they are still ok
[20:14:26] <kb8wmc> Edison's investors told him to experiment with some other project rather than sell batteries that would essentially last forever
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[20:33:10] <mrsunshine_> i wonder if using hdpe compared to ldpe changes the machinable wax in any way?
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[20:38:30] <atmega> what kind of chips does it make? mushy/melted?
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[20:50:27] <mrsunshine_> machinable wax?
[20:50:40] <mrsunshine_> dont know yet, havent tested it
[20:50:45] <mrsunshine_> but looks quite amazing to mill =)
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[20:54:03] <drill> hi
[20:54:03] <the_wench> hello drill, you have a question?
[20:54:20] <Jymmm> why in the hell are there price not linear
[20:54:25] <Jymmm> their
[20:57:45] <Jymmm> oh,nm
[20:58:27] <Jymmm> I didn't realize that BOTH the voltage ANND wattage was doubling, I thought it was one of the other.
[21:00:06] <Jymmm> 48V@48KW could power an avg home for a month!
[21:04:22] <Tom_itx> mrsunshine_, how did you make up a batch?
[21:04:29] <Tom_itx> remelt what you machined?
[21:04:52] <Jymmm> use a double boiler
[21:05:08] <Jymmm> slowly raise the temp to prevent explosions
[21:05:25] <mrsunshine_> Tom_itx, no, made it from scratch =)
[21:05:32] <Tom_itx> using what?
[21:05:33] <atmega> tehre's a recipe on cnczone or somewhere
[21:05:38] <mrsunshine_> parafin wax and plastic bags =)
[21:05:38] <Tom_itx> ahh
[21:05:42] <mrsunshine_> 4:1 ratio
[21:05:54] <Tom_itx> i wonder how it compares to the commercial stuff
[21:05:57] <Jymmm> mrsunshine_: what bags, groceery?
[21:06:02] <mrsunshine_> kinda nice material just to hold, a little bit oily (feel like this would be good for machining) and hard =)
[21:06:25] <Tom_itx> the real stuff is
[21:06:32] <mrsunshine_> Jymmm, aye, LDPE
[21:06:41] <Jymmm> k
[21:06:44] <Tom_itx> for a mold?
[21:06:55] <mrsunshine_> just for machining, dont know what i will use it for
[21:06:57] <mrsunshine_> :P
[21:06:58] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't think it would matter if it was HDPE or LDPE
[21:07:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: milk carton
[21:07:04] <mrsunshine_> nop me neither =)
[21:07:20] <mrsunshine_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene there is a list there of diferent polythen materials =)
[21:07:29] <mrsunshine_> my guess is that all of them would work ?
[21:07:52] <Tom_itx> you just need sharp cutters for plastic
[21:08:07] <L84Supper> Nickle sodium batteries.. huh... A123 has the lithium phosphate type used in the KillaCycle http://www.killacycle.com/
[21:08:55] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Thats due to weight. I'd rather have a lifetime battery
[21:09:23] <Jymmm> L84Supper: the longevity of batteries have been the enduring factor in solar applications
[21:10:09] <Jymmm> They have new chemistries for solar panels all the time, just not the batteries to compliment them
[21:12:24] <L84Supper> you can get NiFe batteries in China
[21:13:39] <Jymmm> cool
[21:16:08] <mrsunshine_> think im gonna try and make a nice little lost wax casting =)
[21:16:28] <mrsunshine_> i have a work in progress, skeletal hand anatomicly correct holding a ball for a gear shift thingie =)
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[21:23:53] <mrsunshine_> Tom_itx, from what ive read the machinable wax does not wear out the cutters very fast atleast =)
[21:24:33] <Jymmm> Looking for ideas... I have to store a lot of things flat horizontally, but I have very little horizontal space (much more vertical space). Now, even if I were to stack things, I need to be able to get to the thing in the middle of the stack easily, and be able to apply pressure to get some things flat and not curl on the edges. Any thoughts or ideas?
[21:25:29] <Jymmm> the largest being 48"x36"
[21:26:05] <Jymmm> smaller being 8.5"x11"
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[21:29:01] <psha> Jymmm: take a empty barrel and spin it on high speed - you'll get lot of 'gravitationaly' horizontal space!
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[21:51:10] <danimal_garage> hmmm i'm losing position in my y axis
[21:52:20] <danimal_garage> probably off about .005-.01"
[21:53:18] <danimal_garage> if i re-home it, it seems to go back to where it's supposed to be
[21:53:57] <danimal_garage> any idea why it would be off? It's servos with resolvers.
[21:54:31] <danimal_garage> cant be anything mechanical because it homes out to the right spot
[21:54:57] <danimal_garage> so it's not counting right
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[21:59:50] <danimal_garage> probably electrical noise, huh?
[21:59:55] <PCW> noise in the quadrature inputs can do this
[22:00:42] <danimal_garage> hmm
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[22:01:56] <PCW> are they differential signals? (A, /A, B, /B Z, /Z)
[22:02:56] <danimal_garage> yes
[22:03:38] <danimal_garage> resolvers go to the drives, differential quad outputs to the 7i33
[22:03:51] <danimal_garage> or 7i37, i forget
[22:04:05] <PCW> 7I33 jumpered for differential inputs?
[22:04:12] <danimal_garage> yep
[22:04:54] <Valen> PCW the velocity feedback helped a fair bit
[22:05:14] <Valen> thanks for that
[22:05:16] <PCW> you might check the they truly are differential (if A is high /A should be low etc
[22:05:22] <danimal_garage> i had some issues with a ferror on the z axis before because the spindle's power line drooped near the resolver cable
[22:05:34] <Valen> btw you (or somebody) might want to update the sample configs to include that by default
[22:05:59] <PCW> Well it cant be updated yet as its not released yet
[22:06:32] <PCW> (but yes the 2.5 sample configs should be updated)
[22:06:54] <Valen> thats what I meant
[22:06:55] <PCW> also with the index enable fed to PID
[22:07:06] <Valen> whats that one?
[22:07:15] <PCW> (and the PID integral bug fixed )
[22:07:17] <danimal_garage> pcw, do you think it's more likely to be the feedback cables from the drive to the 7i33, or could it be the resolver feedback cables going to the drive?
[22:07:43] <Valen> PID integral bug?
[22:07:57] <PCW> If you had trouble with the resolver cables before I would suspect that first
[22:08:19] <danimal_garage> i'm not sure if resolvers can actually loose position as it triangulates the positon, right?
[22:08:58] <PCW> Yes the current PID comp has a bug if you saturate the output on integral overshoot (runs away)
[22:08:58] <danimal_garage> so it cant actually "lose count" like an encoder, right?
[22:08:59] <Valen> if it moves by enough to go back around it'd loose position
[22:09:14] <danimal_garage> valen, it's only a few thousandths
[22:10:23] <PCW> The resolver cannot lose position but noise might confuse its resolver to quadrature logic
[22:10:27] <paul11315> are you using a vfd
[22:10:58] <danimal_garage> when i had issues with the resolver, i dont think it actually permenantly lost position. i think when the spindle was off, it went back to the right place
[22:11:01] <danimal_garage> paul11315, yes
[22:11:09] <danimal_garage> but it's nowhere near the drives
[22:11:13] <danimal_garage> or cables
[22:11:28] <danimal_garage> several feet away
[22:12:39] <PCW> There's some magic foo you can do to increase the quadrature counter filtering in case is getting in through the quadrature signals
[22:13:06] <danimal_garage> really
[22:13:14] <danimal_garage> how do i do that?
[22:13:28] <paul11315> try grounding shields to a different source
[22:13:57] <PCW> It really should be a encoder parameter but you can get to it via raw-write
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[22:14:39] <danimal_garage> they're grounded to both the shield pin on the drive and the ground terminal on the 7i33
[22:15:02] <Valen> PCW whats index enable fed to PID mean?
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[22:16:03] <danimal_garage> i had some 115v cables running close to the encoder cables. I'll try moving them a little.
[22:16:22] <danimal_garage> this enclosure is tight, i'm waiting to make the switch to my new bigger enclosure
[22:16:36] <PCW> valen: its to avoid a thump when you home to index (FF1 calc is done by d/dt of commanded position which make a big jump on index)
[22:17:17] <danimal_garage> PCW, encoder parameter where?
[22:17:23] <danimal_garage> in the drive, or in emc?
[22:17:44] <PCW> (D term does as well unless you use the more modern velocity input way)
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[22:17:52] <PCW> D term
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[22:18:37] <andypugh> With a resolver cable consisting of individually screened pairs, would one terminate the shield to the shell of the connector at the motor end? (I suspect not?)
[22:19:01] <PCW> theres no parameter as the driver does not support this but the encoder counter filters can be run slower to reject impulse noise better
[22:19:43] <danimal_garage> that would involve knowing what i'm doing, right?
[22:19:47] <PCW> I'd do it at converter end
[22:20:56] <PCW> Danimal if you look at the HM2 manual it has info on raw read and raw write
[22:20:57] <PCW> to set the filter timing you just need to raw-write one register
[22:21:48] <andypugh> That was my plan, though at the moment there is little scope to do that.
[22:23:17] <danimal_garage> oh ok thanks PCW
[22:31:39] <andypugh> If standard D-conectors are "subminiature" I wonder how big the full-sized ones were?
[22:34:28] <Valen> I have been trying to find out if our scales have an index pulse, I'm under the impression that pretty much all scales do, but I've never seen it :-<
[22:34:40] <Valen> has a wire for it or so it says
[22:36:17] <danimal_garage> i cant find anything regarding raw write
[22:36:37] <danimal_garage> is it in the integrator manual?
[22:37:26] <danimal_garage> i dont even know what raw write is
[22:37:52] <andypugh> danimal_garage: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html
[22:38:08] <andypugh> (search that page for "enable_eaw")
[22:39:14] <danimal_garage> thanks andypugh
[22:43:58] <danimal_garage> thats all greek to me lol
[22:44:05] <PCW> danimal_garage you want to write 8 to 0x3400 (to lower quadrature filter rate to about 440 KHz max count rate from 4.4 MHz default)
[22:44:36] <bill2or3> warning: apparently my fireballV90 has arrived at home, expect a batch of newbie questions tomorrow.
[22:46:04] <danimal_garage> i don't see anything that instructs one how to raw write
[22:46:32] <danimal_garage> or even tell me what it is
[22:46:58] <PCW> man HostMot2 (its at the bottom)
[22:47:04] <danimal_garage> (i know nothing about drivers or anything of the sort)
[22:48:29] <danimal_garage> i see that, but i have no clue what any of that means
[22:49:08] <danimal_garage> if you don't already know what you're doing, the manual is fairly useless.... no offense to anyone who worked on it
[22:50:15] <danimal_garage> nothing in the integrator manual made sense till i learned it here or through trial and error
[22:51:02] <Valen> its either too basic or too advanced or not detailed enough ;->
[22:51:17] <danimal_garage> lol.... yea, i guess you just cant win
[22:52:08] <PCW> Its pretty simple but really meant for debugging, not users. to do the write you set the write address (the 0x3400), the data (the 8) and then set the write strobe
[22:52:34] <PCW> data = 8
[22:52:52] <danimal_garage> the issue is i do not know what any of that means.
[22:53:39] <PCW> if you want to know about the magic numbers you need to look at the HostMot2 hardware register map
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[22:55:20] <PCW> the address, data, and strobe pins are just standard HAL pins (which will show up if you enable the raw mode)
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[22:55:44] <danimal_garage> ok
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[22:56:12] <danimal_garage> so all this stuff goes in the hal file
[22:57:07] <PCW> Yes, though you would have to enable raw mode in the ini file (where the firmware options are specified)
[22:57:41] <danimal_garage> ok now i'm following
[22:57:56] <danimal_garage> i didnt understand that it was a hal thing
[22:58:46] <PCW> if you want to know the gory details you can read the regmap file in the encoder section (locate regmap)
[22:58:48] <PCW> note 0x3400 is hexadecimal not 3400
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[23:03:58] <danimal_garage> so i found this in a forum post by you: setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.write-address 13312 # (0x3400)
[23:04:40] <danimal_garage> i dont know what hexadecimal is, but is that the appropriate address (13312)?
[23:05:31] <PCW> got to find my HP 32s...
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[23:06:00] <PCW> yep that 0x3400
[23:07:07] <PCW> hexadecimal is just like decimal if you have 16 fingers
[23:07:50] <PCW> ( 16 decimal fingers )
[23:08:40] <danimal_garage> is the # neccesary?
[23:08:58] <atmega> ITYM: hexadecimal is just like decimal if you have 10 fingers
[23:09:07] <PCW> its just a comment
[23:09:16] <danimal_garage> oh yea, woops
[23:09:18] <danimal_garage> i knew that
[23:09:35] <PCW> Yes I corrected myself
[23:09:49] <danimal_garage> it's been a year since i had to mess with the hal
[23:10:50] <PCW> You must have done some setup to get your servo stuff workin
[23:12:45] <andypugh> I am pretty sure you can use hex (with the 0xNNNN format) in HAL files.
[23:12:54] <andypugh> You can definitely use it in Halcmd.
[23:13:21] <danimal_garage> pcw, mostly cut and paste from my lathe's hal
[23:19:08] <andypugh> It appears that glass lightshades are not radio controlled helicopter resistant. I am sure all the bits of glass will turn up evantually.
[23:20:01] <PCW> how many time have you been told to play _outside_
[23:21:04] <danimal_garage> they didnt say sudo
[23:21:44] <andypugh> The box clearly says that it can be flown inside or outside.
[23:22:07] <andypugh> It's not a very nice light fitting anyway.
[23:22:14] <JT-Shop> does it say you can crash it inside or outside?
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[23:24:17] <JT-Shop> anyone want to come by tomorrow and help me put some decking on the shop? it is perfect weather Hi 25F and Cloudy
[23:24:58] <danimal_garage> so it cant find the write address pin
[23:25:22] <danimal_garage> i enabled raw in the ini
[23:25:25] <danimal_garage> or so i think
[23:25:35] <andypugh> bring up a terminal window.
[23:25:48] <andypugh> halcmd show pin *raw*
[23:26:34] <bill2or3> so.. I have this fireballcncV90 to assemble, can anyone suggest a good source of test-items to route, that will make my wife say "Oh, neat!" ? someplace like thingiverse.com, but more CNC oriented?
[23:27:32] <danimal_garage> that didnt work andypugh
[23:27:33] <andypugh> Does she have any hobbies you could make related items for?
[23:27:42] <andypugh> Was EMC live at the time/
[23:27:52] <danimal_garage> no
[23:28:06] <andypugh> I think I know why it didn't work.
[23:28:22] <danimal_garage> it said rtapi kernel module must me loaded
[23:28:32] <andypugh> Odd, that.
[23:28:36] <andypugh> :-)
[23:28:41] <bill2or3> andypugh, knitting, soap-making.
[23:29:06] <bill2or3> just thinking of something not-too difficult to make as a first test, but not totally dull.
[23:29:19] <andypugh> You could route individually monogrammed knitting-needle ends, I suppose.
[23:29:25] <bill2or3> perhaps her name in some fancy font, there's a ttf-to-gcode script, right?
[23:29:48] <bill2or3> I haven't got any CAM software(or anything, really) yet, so I'm starting from zero.
[23:29:49] <danimal_garage> andypugh, does emc need to be running?
[23:29:54] <andypugh> Hmm, actually, you could route soap moulds...
[23:30:01] <andypugh> danimal_garage: Yes.
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[23:30:34] <andypugh> Or, if you want, you can do this (worth knowing for general bugfixing)
[23:30:56] <Valen> flowers n stuff
[23:30:56] <andypugh> type halrun (that brings up RTAI and stuff)
[23:31:11] <danimal_garage> i cant start emc without deleting the stuff i added to hal
[23:31:14] <andypugh> then source your.hal
[23:32:02] <andypugh> Alternatively, you can type in the HAL file line by line (or copy-paste it) at the halrun prompt and see what pins you get.
[23:32:18] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you better get that covered soon, another blast is on it's way
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[23:33:02] <andypugh> danimal_garage: I am not entirely sure that halcmd / halrun can read from an INI fle thought.
[23:33:52] <andypugh> danimal_garage: Pastebin your current HAL file?
[23:34:05] <andypugh> (And maybe the iNI)
[23:34:21] <bill2or3> I guess I'm asking more about repositories of 3D "clipart" & such.
[23:34:54] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I know :/
[23:35:06] <andypugh> bill2or3: I think they have some on cnczone
[23:35:07] <Tom_itx> we're gettin some tomorrow
[23:35:17] <Tom_itx> just when i'm due out of town
[23:35:19] <Tom_itx> :/
[23:35:47] <Tom_itx> hopefully clear again when i *really* go out of town
[23:36:03] <JT-Shop> Wednesday here but it makes no difference as a 1 man roofing crew only goes so fast
[23:36:26] <Tom_itx> yeah that's one of my least favorite jobs
[23:36:31] <bill2or3> cool andy, I'll take a lookie. realistically it'll probably be the weekend before I'm cutting anything, so I have a little time
[23:36:59] <danimal_garage> http://pastebin.com/38jbcs31
[23:37:49] <bill2or3> I dont suppose anyone here has one of the V90's?
[23:38:17] <danimal_garage> http://pastebin.com/GVrxhJhj
[23:38:32] <andypugh> bill2or3: It's the "Downloads" section on the front page. Though the stuff I have looked at is a bit poor.
[23:38:55] <danimal_garage> first one is the ini, the second is the hal
[23:41:31] <danimal_garage> probably a bit of a mess
[23:41:50] <andypugh> Aha!
[23:41:58] <andypugh> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.raw.write-address 13312 # (0x3400)
[23:42:12] <andypugh> (You have the "raw" after the .0. missing)
[23:42:24] <danimal_garage> ahhh
[23:42:31] <danimal_garage> thats what i get for copy and pasting lol
[23:43:19] <andypugh> Let me just check it is .0.raw.write and not .0.raw-write....
[23:44:20] <danimal_garage> neither apparently lol
[23:44:25] <danimal_garage> neither worked
[23:44:35] <andypugh> They all need it.
[23:45:54] <danimal_garage> is doesnt fine the write address pin
[23:46:56] <PCW> be careful if you write too large data to 0x3400, you may get a runaway at high speed so keep you hand over the estop
[23:46:58] <PCW> ( look for the pin with halmeter )
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[23:49:52] <andypugh> danimal_garage: http://pastebin.com/VchYkQh3
[23:50:11] <andypugh> dots and underscores.
[23:51:02] <danimal_garage> 5.CONFIG="firmware=hm2/5i20/SVST8_4.BIT num_encoders=4 num_pwmgens=4 num_stepgens=0 enable_raw"
[23:51:05] <danimal_garage> is that right?
[23:51:16] <andypugh> Yes, that bit is right
[23:51:55] <andypugh> Your HAL lacks the "raw" and has write-address rather than write_address
[23:52:38] <danimal_garage> ahhh
[23:53:04] <Valen> andypugh: you were mentioning before about making ff1 into a function rather than a set value by feeding it stuff via a hal pin
[23:53:24] <andypugh> Yes?
[23:53:27] <Valen> any suggestions for where to start looking at how to do that?
[23:53:33] <danimal_garage> yay
[23:53:43] <danimal_garage> that turned it on
[23:54:05] <andypugh> Not really, I think that you would have to work it out for yourself, using generic HAL-wrangling
[23:54:20] <Valen> generic hal wrangling is my weak spot lol
[23:55:11] <danimal_garage> it wont find my index
[23:55:13] <Valen> I don't even know the name of what I don't know to look it up so i can wrangle ;->
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[23:55:33] <danimal_garage> maybe too much filtering?
[23:56:39] <andypugh> Valen: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_basic_hal.html
[23:57:41] <andypugh> Unfortunately I need to do the washing up, then go to bed, as I have a flight in the morning, and then I will be away for 3 weeks. Washing up first.
[23:57:53] <Valen> lol thanks anyway
[23:57:54] <JT-Shop> fly safe Andy
[23:58:03] <alex_joni> safe trip
[23:58:06] <alex_joni> night all
[23:58:08] <PCW> Bye Andy
[23:58:08] <Valen> I'll see if i can work out the "in between" bits lol
[23:58:11] <danimal_garage> bye andy
[23:58:19] <JT-Shop> night Alex
[23:58:21] <Valen> its all super basic or super advanced
[23:58:25] <Valen> anyway have a nice trip
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[23:58:45] <danimal_garage> PCW, is it safe to assume the smaller the digit, the less the buffering?
[23:58:55] <PCW> danimal: try 4 (or if you know the simulated index width I can give you a better number)
[23:59:06] <danimal_garage> ok
[23:59:10] <JT-Shop> Valen: what hangs you up in HAL?
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[23:59:28] <danimal_garage> i do not know that pcw, didnt see anything like that in my drive's manual