#emc | Logs for 2011-01-19

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[11:48:51] <jthornton> time for coffee
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[12:59:25] <Guest606> Hello, can i use emc2 with a servo controller that has a pci interface and take position, velociry and acc command. In other words is the step/dir thru paraller port is the only way to interface with a servo drive?
[13:00:42] <alex_joni> no
[13:00:42] <alex_joni> emc2 can use lots of hardware interfaces to drive motors
[13:01:02] <Guest606> is this done by using HAL?
[13:01:04] <alex_joni> Guest606: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
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[14:54:07] <frallzor> hey boys, a non-emc Q
[14:54:38] <frallzor> I want to anodize but the nitric acid for desmut is a pain in the ass to get, so im wondering is anyone know if Alu 6082 even needs desmut?
[14:56:42] <pcw_home> I don't know what compares with smut hip hip hurray!
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[15:01:37] <L84Supper> Aluminum De-Oxidizer & De-Smut 1 Quart $17.74 http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/aluminum.htm
[15:02:28] <pcw_home> Alex: Depending on its capabilities, a smart controller might be able to be used if it was just sent positions and a velocities (to extrapolate to the next position in between EMCs updates)
[15:04:53] <L84Supper> frallzor: http://www.stonechemical.com/deoxidizers.asp they might sell you some
[15:05:53] <frallzor> sweden
[15:06:03] <frallzor> wouldnt even get pass the border =P
[15:06:58] <frallzor> I just need something to replace the desmut
[15:07:02] <frallzor> if there even is
[15:07:35] <frallzor> to get rid of impurities
[15:08:01] <atmega> try it without it.
[15:08:20] <frallzor> trying to find info about 6082 to see if its pure enough
[15:08:29] <L84Supper> http://www.picklex.com/
[15:08:38] <frallzor> seems its pretty decent for anodizing at least
[15:09:43] <L84Supper> the nitric acid is for removing any copper
[15:10:55] <L84Supper> you might also try citric acid
[15:10:56] <frallzor> yeah but Its bloody hard finding alternatives here in sweden =/
[15:14:30] <frallzor> might give it a try without desmut
[15:14:36] <pcw_home> Isn't the anodizing bath just as nasty as the desmut? Where do you get the anodizing bath?
[15:14:36] <frallzor> might be good enough
[15:15:06] <atmega> hot sulfuric acid?
[15:15:24] <frallzor> those components anyone can buy here
[15:15:28] <frallzor> for the anodizing
[15:15:50] <frallzor> its just that nitric acid can be used to make bombs =)
[15:15:58] <atmega> so can fertilizer
[15:16:32] <frallzor> pretty sure both require permits here
[15:16:38] <atmega> you can't buy nitric acid because someone might make a bomb?
[15:16:53] <frallzor> thats why you need permits
[15:17:09] <psha> atmega: maybe it's easier to buy a bomb and distill nitric acid from it?
[15:17:11] <frallzor> so that stuff dont go missing etc etc, allway been like that here
[15:17:16] <frallzor> *s
[15:17:23] <frallzor> overprotective =)
[15:18:06] <frallzor> I can apply for a permit but itll take 6-8 weeks to process
[15:19:14] <L84Supper> what about citric acid? Do they allow lemons without a permit? :p
[15:19:22] <atmega> is desmut plain nitric acid? or other stuff too?
[15:20:01] <frallzor> nitric acid + distilled water
[15:20:03] <L84Supper> everybody has their secret mixes
[15:20:16] <frallzor> usually
[15:20:25] <frallzor> at least for home use =)
[15:20:43] <frallzor> L84Supper sure that acid would be strong enough?
[15:21:02] <frallzor> cant see that lemons would replace acids that needs permits :P
[15:21:28] <psha> frallzor: it's top secret info! :)
[15:22:53] <L84Supper> frallzor: you might not even need it. What's the size of your parts?
[15:23:17] <frallzor> these = 10x40x300mm
[15:23:25] <frallzor> and smaller
[15:24:15] <frallzor> 0.5x2x10 inch roughly
[15:31:52] <frallzor> ill just try without the desmut part
[15:32:02] <frallzor> what I find is that my alloy is ok for anodizing
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[15:45:52] <lilalinux> is emc.var a global file?
[15:46:10] <lilalinux> or can I reference any file from within my g-code?
[15:46:27] <SWPadnos> it's a per-configuration file
[15:46:37] <lilalinux> I want to make use of G54..
[15:46:47] <SWPadnos> ie, you can have different ones for different configs, but within one config, there is only one var file
[15:46:54] <lilalinux> O_o
[15:47:00] <lilalinux> not very usefull for G54 then
[15:47:07] <SWPadnos> in what way?
[15:47:24] <lilalinux> or am I supposed to create a new config for each part?
[15:47:26] <SWPadnos> the var file is machine-specific variables (which are saved across runs of EMC)
[15:47:29] <SWPadnos> what?
[15:47:33] <lilalinux> ok, let me explain
[15:47:35] <SWPadnos> no, certainly not
[15:48:04] <lilalinux> I have gcode for one part and want to cut that multiple times e.g. in a 4x4 matrix
[15:48:19] <lilalinux> I thought I could use G54 etc for that
[15:48:31] <SWPadnos> yes, I believe you can
[15:48:52] <lilalinux> but I have to store the coordinates of the fixtures in a global file?
[15:49:06] <lilalinux> so for the next part I need to edit the machine's config again?
[15:49:25] <SWPadnos> you could also use G91 (relative motion) for the part program and just move to the various fixtures in absolute or a G5x coordinate system
[15:49:33] <SWPadnos> no, that's not how it should work
[15:49:55] <lilalinux> I tried G91 but it's difficult, because the offsets have to be relative
[15:50:22] <SWPadnos> you move to some position and issue a G10 L2 or something (I don't know the code, but there's a way to say "this is now XYZ in one of the coordinate systems"
[15:51:06] <lilalinux> I see
[15:51:10] <psha> SWPadnos: G10 L20
[15:51:13] <lilalinux> didn't know G10 yet
[15:51:26] <SWPadnos> psha, ok, whatever the manual says :)
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[15:51:44] <psha> at least i've used this to do touch-off from pyvcp
[15:51:45] <psha> MDI_COMMAND = G10 L20 P1 X0 Y0 Z0
[15:52:10] <SWPadnos> and P is the coordinate system you wish to change? (1=G54, 2=G55 ... through G59.3)?
[15:52:16] <psha> yes
[15:52:23] <SWPadnos> yay! I love guessing
[15:53:54] <lilalinux> perfect
[15:53:55] <lilalinux> thx
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[15:59:19] <lilalinux> How do I reset G10?
[16:04:34] <atmega> g10 l2 p1 x0 y z0 ?
[16:04:45] <atmega> that really resets g54 though?
[16:08:42] <lilalinux> stupid me
[16:08:49] <lilalinux> actually G92 is totally sufficient
[16:09:13] <lilalinux> I just need to clear it before I set it new %-)
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[16:11:06] <SWPadnos> to really reset things, you'd probably want to do G53 X0Y0Z0 (plus whatever other axes you have), then use G10
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[16:24:02] * lilalinux writes this somewhere down
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[18:14:00] <MrSunshine> yeey my new cnc computer has come =)
[18:15:42] <frallzor> boooh
[18:15:52] <frallzor> =P
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[19:03:12] <ries> hey frallzor how are you doing?
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[19:21:57] <kb8wmc> good day to all
[19:22:06] <frallzor> lo
[19:22:26] <kb8wmc> lo frallzor
[19:22:54] <frallzor> I need a PSU :P
[19:23:11] <kb8wmc> ok....sry, can't help there
[19:23:28] <kb8wmc> for what?
[19:23:30] <frallzor> I know I just need to kick myself in the ass and go get one so I can start anodizing
[19:23:40] <kb8wmc> aha
[19:24:01] <kb8wmc> what kind is required
[19:24:01] <frallzor> I hate having to paint my alu with cans as only protection
[19:24:20] <frallzor> DC with variable current
[19:24:31] <kb8wmc> rgr
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[19:25:55] <frallzor> and Ive found a nice one at reasonable price with CC
[19:25:59] <frallzor> what I need =)
[19:26:10] <kb8wmc> go for it
[19:26:18] <atmega> no permit required?
[19:26:29] <frallzor> what for?
[19:26:41] <atmega> PSU
[19:26:46] <frallzor> why? =)
[19:26:52] <atmega> so you can't make a bomb out of it
[19:27:18] <frallzor> are you comparing psu with something that can really blow up? :P
[19:27:30] <atmega> no, just the nitric acid thing
[19:27:59] <frallzor> yes the nitric acid that can blow things up :P
[19:28:08] <frallzor> you even need permits here to sell it
[19:28:31] <frallzor> but its mostly due to its nature, pour it out and it causes hell :P
[19:29:29] <frallzor> I guess thats why sweden only have had 1 suicide bomber that failes miserably :P
[19:29:38] <frallzor> *failed
[19:30:05] <frallzor> cant get hold of stuff easily here =)
[19:30:59] <frallzor> I just decided to skip nitric acid, might not even need it
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[20:15:11] <skunkworks> could somone pcw_home ? comment? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/881758-post23.html
[20:19:08] <skunkworks> ^ probably above my paygrade
[20:44:00] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure why he thinks he has to run the servo loop (PID) fast enough that at most one encoder count can arrive per cycle ...
[20:44:17] <SWPadnos> I suspect he's wrong about something there
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[20:55:29] <skunkworks> That is why I figured there needed to be an more experter person replying ;)
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[21:12:20] <frallzor> thar we go, another piece of alu machined
[21:14:09] <frallzor> decent surfaces after some scotch brite =)
[21:14:12] <frallzor> I love it
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[21:18:28] <frallzor> milling, drinking scotch and photographing; a nice evening!
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[21:42:00] <frallzor> http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/IMG_0555.jpg http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/IMG_0557.jpg http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/IMG_0560.jpg todays little fun
[21:42:02] <PCW> A rule of thumb I've seen is the the control loop should run 10 - 25 times the mechanical bandwidth
[21:42:04] <frallzor> nothing special though :P
[21:42:04] <PCW> so if your controlling a galvanometer 600 KHz might make sense, but with a machine tool with 100 -300 Hz bandwidth its seems silly
[21:42:52] <lilalinux> it would be nice, if at manually stopping execution the coordinate system would be reset
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[21:46:49] <mrsunshine_> Valen, was it you that had a d510 ?
[21:47:04] <Valen> not sure but I have something clise
[21:47:05] <psha> mrsunshine_: here are many owners of D510MO
[21:47:07] <Valen> close
[21:47:14] <mrsunshine_> aw :P
[21:47:17] <mrsunshine_> oki =)
[21:47:28] <mrsunshine_> anhyone has the link to the guide about that mobo for emc ?
[21:47:32] <Valen> we have a dual core atom
[21:47:41] <psha> mrsunshine_: guide?
[21:47:44] <Valen> the one before the D510
[21:47:49] <mrsunshine_> there was a guide on how to config
[21:47:53] <mrsunshine_> for it to work good =)
[21:48:03] <psha> buy it, unpack it, install ubuntu from emc live cd and be happy :)
[21:48:06] <Valen> the only issue with the D510 was the parallel port had a bug, but thats been worked around now
[21:48:15] <Valen> basically yeah
[21:48:32] <psha> and add isolcpus=1 to boot options
[21:48:34] <mrsunshine_> btw, i hate that emc comes only with ubuntu
[21:48:40] <mrsunshine_> ubuntu is huge and cumbersome
[21:48:55] <mrsunshine_> psha, what does that do ?
[21:49:03] <psha> you mean 'default installation of ubuntu' is huge?
[21:49:16] <psha> it isolates one core for realtime tasks exclusively
[21:49:23] <mrsunshine_> psha, ah =)
[21:49:38] <psha> you may strip everything you don't need from it
[21:49:48] <psha> it's still deb based and flexible
[21:50:00] <psha> yes, defaults are huge
[21:50:06] <psha> but nobody forces you to use them
[21:51:39] <Valen> its not "huge" and cumbersome
[21:51:47] <Valen> runs fine on that motherboard
[21:52:19] <skunkworks> PCW: neat
[21:53:00] <kb8wmc> psha: I got the motor/axis problem figured out and working problem, problem was in configuration setup
[21:53:05] <Valen> no other distribution has as wide hardware support out of the box as ubuntu
[21:53:33] <psha> Valen: it's really huge... at least it's default install
[21:53:46] <Valen> what its like 500mb or so
[21:53:52] <Valen> windows 7 needs 20Gb
[21:54:09] <psha> heh, i'm using debian and not win7 :)
[21:54:21] <Valen> and in that 500mb you get everything you need to have a fully functional computer
[21:55:41] <mrsunshine_> Valen, well if emc would update the cd from what ... version 9 ubuntu maybe..
[21:55:44] <mrsunshine_> =)
[21:55:53] <Valen> huh?
[21:55:59] <Valen> the livecd is 10.04
[21:56:07] <mrsunshine_> is it that now ?
[21:56:15] <Valen> no i'm lying
[21:56:18] <skunkworks> heh
[21:56:20] <skunkworks> yes i ti s.
[21:56:36] <skunkworks> * yes it is. (10.04)
[21:57:25] <mrsunshine_> well im on 11.04 on all my other computers :/
[21:57:41] <skunkworks> emc sticks with the lts
[21:58:09] <mrsunshine_> true
[21:58:15] <mrsunshine_> and i guess thats good =)
[22:00:41] <psha> mrsunshine_: in most cases it's possible to install older packages to new systems
[22:00:51] <psha> but you still need rtai kernel
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