#emc | Logs for 2011-01-15

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[00:00:12] <jthornton> I have Mantis9 config running on this computer atm with no problems
[00:00:42] <andypugh> Yes, I think it must be hardware. Graphics maybe?
[00:01:53] <jthornton> that does sound the most plausible for him
[00:02:22] <ApplePieFromScra> new to emc, some netapp experiance, im in the process of converting the split vmdk celerra simulator to ESX format for testing purposes, does the simulator actually have the ability to share files to my vmnetwork, or is it just that, a simulator
[00:03:08] <andypugh> It simulates the realtime parts of EMC, the rest works as normal.
[00:04:02] -!- theorb [theorb!~theorb@91.84.53.6] has joined #emc
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[00:04:49] <jthornton> I don't even know what he said :/
[00:04:51] <ApplePieFromScra> cool, thanks, so hardware emulator might be a better term for it then simulator
[00:05:38] <jthornton> the sims just fake the real time stuff
[00:05:55] <jthornton> so the backplot moves as expected
[00:06:19] <andypugh> I am not sure what happens if you try to use real hardware in sim mode.
[00:06:32] <andypugh> Some of it might work, but badly.
[00:07:59] <ApplePieFromScra> you mean like iscsi?
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[00:08:23] <ApplePieFromScra> was thinking of just using cifs and play around with snap mirroring and stuff, wasnt that hopefull
[00:09:59] <andypugh> You are clearly far more technical than me, I have almost no idea what you are talking about :-)
[00:10:12] Mendel|drnk is now known as mendelbuild
[00:10:17] * mendelbuild says hello
[00:10:26] <andypugh> Talking of which, what on earth is this guy asking:
[00:10:31] <andypugh> "I try to link specified x-coordinate value with parport.0.pin-05-out.
[00:10:31] <andypugh> Sorry,
[00:10:32] <andypugh> I cannot explain better"
[00:11:04] <andypugh> It would be churlish to answer "If you can't explain better, then I can't answer" wouldn't it?
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[00:11:56] <ApplePieFromScra> im sure im not when it comes to EMC, linux admin thinking of taking a san position with a different company and about to jump in head first /shutter
[00:12:58] <ApplePieFromScra> not sure about that one andy, is he working on a san or making a propritoary serial cable or osmething, heh
[00:15:53] <andypugh> He is trying to configure a metal punching machine...
[00:17:59] <kilian-afk> I was dumb enough to accept the latest Ubuntu updates and now I don't get any video if I run the rtai kernel. Things are fine with the latest non rtai kernel though.
[00:18:03] <kilian-afk> Any ideas?
[00:18:35] kilian-afk is now known as alankilian
[00:19:04] <andypugh> Switch to the Vesa driver in Xorg?
[00:19:34] <ApplePieFromScra> no video before before x starts? or no video after kernel loads?
[00:20:24] <alankilian> No video when X starts. I get normal BIOS and "select your kernel"
[00:20:53] <ApplePieFromScra> rebuild your xorg.conf? or are you past that...not sure
[00:21:31] <andypugh> Which version of EMC and Ubuntu?
[00:21:41] <andypugh> Anything useful here? : http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[00:22:29] <alankilian> 2.6.35-24 kernel displays video just fine. 2.6.32-122-rtai does not.
[00:23:00] <andypugh> What graphics card?
[00:23:01] <elmo401> alankilian: what vid card?
[00:23:06] <elmo401> ;)
[00:23:10] <alankilian> Everything was working up to this evening when I accepted the latest updates. It looked like just some embedded gcc packages so I didn't think it was anything too troublesome.
[00:23:52] <alankilian> Whatever's builtin on this ancient Intel P4 motherboard. I'll poke around.
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[00:25:39] <elmo401> alankilian: simple enough... lspci will inform you :)
[00:26:29] <ApplePieFromScra> stupid question, do you need the new kernel? is just loading the old one until another update is released an option? or is there something in the new kernel you wa nt?
[00:26:40] <alankilian> Intel 82865G Integrated video controller
[00:27:13] <alankilian> I certainly DON'T want the new kernel since it's not an -rtai kernel. But the -rtai kernel now stops displaying video.
[00:27:31] <alankilian> Maybe if I reinstall EMC I'll get some .so or something it needs.
[00:28:55] <alankilian> If I uninstall EMC it's not going to throw away my configs is it? (I doubt it, but better safe than sorry.)
[00:29:35] <andypugh> No, it shouldn't. But for safety just copy the whole home/configs directory to a USB (or floppy :-)
[00:30:17] <ApplePieFromScra> at the linuxcnc homepage it says "Note: Do Not upgrade Ubuntu from the installed version as it will prevent EMC from working."
[00:30:29] <andypugh> I suspect an "update" of the vide driver, ot a meddling with your xorg.conf
[00:30:42] <ApplePieFromScra> i must admit, i have no idea what im talking about here when i joined the channel, i thought this channel was for EMC sans
[00:31:04] <andypugh> Yes, but that doesn't preclude installing patches and updates, it is version upgrading that is verboten
[00:31:32] <Tom_itx> i think i'm gonna try installing it on one of those pc104 boards
[00:31:52] <Tom_itx> you need to install it with the gui right?
[00:32:10] <Valen> ApplePieFromScra: did you upgrade to 10.10?
[00:33:31] <ApplePieFromScra> valen: its alan with the kernel problem, i was just confused looking for help with EMC^2 san help and stumbled into the wrong room and became intrigued as I am an avid linux user
[00:33:35] <andypugh> ApplePieFromScra: Ah! No, this is www.linuxcnc.org related
[00:33:59] <alankilian> Uninstalling and reinstalling EMC2 did the trick. (A little Tooooo MSWindows like for my tastes there.)
[00:34:32] <andypugh> ApplePieFromScra: That would explain why your questions meant absolutely nothing to us :-)
[00:35:04] <andypugh> We are but rude mechanicals, who mess about with CNC machines.
[00:36:54] <ApplePieFromScra> lol
[00:37:41] <ApplePieFromScra> EMC makes SANs (Storage Area Networks) like big devices that have hundreds of hard drives in them that you connect servers too rather then having local disks. im surprized you have not seen more people coming in here making the same mistake i did
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[00:40:39] <alankilian> What do you suggest if my leadscrew pitch is 1 thread-per-mm, but I want to work in Inches? Just use stepconf in Metric and then EMC2 in English? I've never tried this.
[00:41:43] <andypugh> alankilian: That will work,
[00:42:36] <andypugh> Or 1" is exactly 25.4mm so you can easily and exactly convert when configuring.
[00:43:48] <andypugh> Maybe other SAN guys pop in and then pop out again? We do see a lot of folk appear and disappear without a word.
[00:43:52] <Tom_itx> 1mm * .0394 = in
[00:44:33] <Tom_itx> .3937 to be more precise
[00:44:53] <andypugh> .03937078740157 to be nearly exact
[00:45:13] * Valen is screwing with mdadm and lvm now ApplePieFromScra ;-P
[00:45:40] <andypugh> Hmm. given the inexactitude of the reciprocal, I would be tempted to configure in mm and use G21.
[00:45:51] <Tom_itx> my machine won't hold that tolerance :(
[00:46:08] <alankilian> Wow, in Inch, stepconf asks for rev/in and in Metric it asks for mm/rev ???
[00:46:13] <andypugh> G20, for inches, it seems.
[00:46:18] <ApplePieFromScra> well, i lke lvm
[00:46:52] <andypugh> alankilian: Yes, because imperial always uses tpi and metric always uses pitch.
[00:46:54] <ApplePieFromScra> pvcreate, lgcreate, lvcreate, hooray
[00:47:25] <ApplePieFromScra> s/lg/vg
[00:47:26] <alankilian> So maybe I'll just stay in Inch and say 24.5 rev/inch. (Uh, I've got to go do some math now to see if that's even right.)
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[00:47:55] <andypugh> alankilian: So, that does mean that you can put in 25.4 revs/in and be exactly right.
[00:47:57] <alankilian> Yeah, 1 thread-per-mm and 25.4 revs is 1 inch. Cool.
[00:48:14] <ApplePieFromScra> gotta go, gf is here , thanks for trying to help
[00:48:18] -!- ApplePieFromScra [ApplePieFromScra!~fakeemail@cpe-67-242-151-244.buffalo.res.rr.com] has parted #emc
[00:48:27] <Tom_itx> where do you suggest getting lead screw material?
[00:48:40] <Tom_itx> i don't need ground ballscrews
[00:48:41] <andypugh> Crikey! Linux SAN geeks get girlfriends?
[00:48:50] <andypugh> Tom_itx: eBay?
[00:48:56] <Tom_itx> yeah
[00:49:00] <Tom_itx> i figured as much
[00:49:30] <Tom_itx> although if i could get some long enough and cheap enough i'd get em
[00:50:24] <andypugh> Where are you? I have had good service and cheap stuff from http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/sf1605-ballscrew-p-430.html?cPath=39_128_130
[00:50:25] <alankilian> OK, moving over to the machine room. Over and out. Thanks a million guys.
[00:50:32] <Valen> we got rolled screws, then coupled with glass scales and get (theoretically) better accuracy than ground screws for much less in the price
[00:50:34] alankilian is now known as alan-afk
[00:51:00] <Valen> we get ours from linearmotionbearings on ebay
[00:51:03] <andypugh> I think people get far too worried about accuracy.
[00:51:05] <Valen> but the shipping is a killer
[00:51:37] <Tom_itx> andypugh it depends on the application but i agree mostly
[00:51:41] <andypugh> OK, so rolled ballscrews are only good to 0.1mm over 300mm. So what?
[00:52:39] <andypugh> I have never had to make (or design) anything that needed to hold that accuracy over that distance. .001 over 10mm maybe. But things a foot apart don't matter.
[00:53:47] <andypugh> (And, with EMC2 you can always map your ballscrew anyway)
[00:53:56] <Valen> if you can measure it
[00:54:09] <Valen> that task would be beyond most people
[00:54:13] <andypugh> Borrow one glass slide, fit it temporarily, send it back?
[00:54:37] <Valen> heh, my rental prices might shock you ;-P
[00:54:52] <Valen> sending small long glass item through post sounds like a bad idea
[00:55:17] <Valen> on the mills we are thinking of making I was thinking of doing that
[00:55:30] <Valen> selling the screw with a calibration file
[00:55:52] <Valen> though I wonder how much things will change if you take it apart and put it togther again
[00:56:10] <Valen> which reminds me
[00:56:47] <PCW> bye all ttgh
[00:56:49] <PCW> Thanks again Andy for your stellar driver/comp work!
[00:57:49] <andypugh> PCW: Now I guess we just have to wait for one of the grown-ups to feel like committing the new code.
[00:58:07] <PCW> Yep
[00:58:24] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/temp/A3%20%20test%20gantry.jpg
[00:58:35] <Valen> andypugh: that your driver for the brushless motors?
[00:59:05] <andypugh> Valen: Stuart Stevenson on his monster Cincinatti has accuatelu mapped his leadscrews and backlash on all axes, and is getting very good rsults.
[00:59:21] <andypugh> Valen: Yes.
[00:59:23] <Valen> benchtop mill 297 × 420 machining volume, 600x800 or so outer dimensions
[00:59:58] <Valen> going to make it out of fiberglass, then you can back fill it with epoxy granite or PB or whatever from locally sourced materials
[01:00:11] <Valen> as shipping 80 odd kg is going to be expensive ;->
[01:00:24] <andypugh> Valen: Opals?
[01:00:40] <Valen> its meant to be a step up from all those ones you see made of MDF and laser cut plastic
[01:00:45] <Valen> opals?
[01:01:03] <andypugh> Aren't they locally source materials for you?
[01:01:09] <Valen> lol
[01:01:21] <Valen> perhaps, but basalt is cheaper for some strange reason ;-P
[01:02:28] <Valen> andypugh: is there some documentation on the stuff you have done? I want to see if it can be adapted to getting those hobby brushless motrors working to push mills around
[01:02:48] <Valen> you think fiberglass backed by a polymer concrete would be a suitable material for a mill?
[01:02:53] <Tom_itx> why would you make it out of fiberglass?
[01:03:01] <Valen> its cheap and we know it
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[01:03:03] <andypugh> Call me old-school, but I like cast iron
[01:03:16] <Tom_itx> i think it would shrink and expand too much
[01:03:19] <Valen> too expensive and heavy for most people
[01:03:23] <Tom_itx> that's mostly why they use cast
[01:03:27] <Tom_itx> for rigidity
[01:03:33] <Valen> composites have much much lower expansion than iron
[01:03:50] <Tom_itx> i'd have to see myself
[01:03:51] <andypugh> It's also not that expensive. My castings cost me about £25 each from a commercial foundry as one-offs.
[01:03:56] <Valen> and the top of the line mills these days are polymer concrete
[01:04:17] <Tom_itx> you sure they're not just doing it for cost?
[01:04:21] <Valen> andypugh: if you made ours of iron you would need ~400kg of it, that'd probably cost a bit more
[01:04:48] <Valen> cost is certainly an element, but it is also far more damping to vibration than iron
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[01:05:03] <andypugh> Not this baby: http://www.deansmithandgrace.co.uk/icms_assets/files/Travelling_Gantry_Machine.pdf
[01:05:05] <Valen> also wouldn't sit on a desk that well lol
[01:05:25] <Tom_itx> i've got a workbench of 1/2" plate steel
[01:05:33] <Tom_itx> i think it would sit there ok
[01:05:48] <Valen> again, all the people buying those 3040 cnc machines on ebay probably dont
[01:06:00] <andypugh> I like that DSG, it's like a hobby machine (steel plates and linear rails) but writ large.
[01:06:03] <Tom_itx> yeah but they should
[01:06:13] <Valen> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Surfing-3040-CNC-Router-PCB-Engraving-Machine-/320636093991?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa7668627#ht_2319wt_1141
[01:06:17] <Valen> yeah but they dont
[01:06:19] <Valen> and they wont
[01:06:54] <Valen> everybody should obviously have a 7 axis 400 tonne mill in their garage but it doesn't seem to have happened yet
[01:07:22] <andypugh> Valen: The hobby motors would need an encoder or a set of hall sensors. If you have either (or both) then the bldc component will drive them.
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[01:07:37] <Valen> I was going to put encoders on, need it for ballscrews anyway
[01:07:56] <Valen> but its hard finding DC motors in the right kind of RPM range in the right kind of size
[01:08:05] <andypugh> It's just an interface, of course, you need a drive too.
[01:08:18] <Valen> I presume its for mesa hardware?
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[01:08:39] <andypugh> No, it is aimed at supporting absolutely any sort of hardware
[01:08:57] <andypugh> It converts any sort of motor feedback into any sort of drive input.
[01:09:01] <Valen> so it could run over parallel port if you had enough of them
[01:09:34] <andypugh> I am fairly sure it would let you run the famously tricky Fauc red-caps with a parallel port and 6 transistors.
[01:09:41] <Valen> how do you get the sine wave output?
[01:09:45] <Valen> IE the PWM
[01:10:09] <andypugh> You would need to run trapezoidal commutation in that mode.
[01:10:36] <Valen> but how do you get the trapezoid?
[01:10:36] <andypugh> Though I have toyed with adding a 3-phase PWMgen function to it.
[01:10:46] <Valen> basically how do you get fractional power levels?
[01:12:12] <andypugh> One output mode is 6 bits of high-side ans low side drive. You would take all the high-side bits direct to the high-side drivers then and2 the output of a software pwmgen with the low-side bits.
[01:14:31] <Valen> yeah the pwmgen was what I was wondering about
[01:14:32] <andypugh> Output modes are: three phase amplitudes, 6 phase amplitudes, 6 bits and amplitude, 3 bits and amplitude, numerical angle and current (8i20 drive), arbitrary hall signals (to drive any drive expecting 3 hall signals) or 4-bit gray code for fanuc drives.
[01:15:41] <andypugh> Inputs are incremental encoder with or without index, absolute encoder, hall sensors, or 4-bit gray code.
[01:15:54] <andypugh> I make that 42 combinations...
[01:16:11] <andypugh> testing remains incomplete.
[01:16:57] <Valen> I wonder how it compares to a dedicated driver
[01:17:09] <Valen> in terms of performance
[01:17:10] <andypugh> It doesn't
[01:17:23] <andypugh> It's a different sort of thing.
[01:17:43] <Valen> if its commutating the motor hows it different?
[01:18:47] <andypugh> It will let you run almost any motor sinusoidally if your drive supports it.
[01:19:57] <andypugh> For example, it can start a motor with hall signals in trapezoidal mode and switch to sinusoidal commutation based on the encoder at the first hall-edge (or, if you prefer, at the encoder index)
[01:21:33] <andypugh> Or, if you got a good deal on a drive which expects 3-halls and voltage but you have a motor with an encoder but no Halls, it will align the motor magnetically, then start outputting hall-sensor signals calculated from encoder counts to make the drive work.
[01:22:05] <andypugh> Or if your motor hall pattern does not match the drive hall pattern, it will tanslate.
[01:22:23] <andypugh> It's a bit of software glue ;-)
[01:22:56] <Valen> I was thinking of using it a step lower, in the 6 transistor ragieme
[01:23:47] <andypugh> Yes, it's ideal for that too, from encoder counts to 6 drive bits and a pwm amplitude.
[01:24:42] <andypugh> (If you have a Mesa card, that will do proper high-frequency 3-phase PWM based on the output amplitudes from the bldc component)
[01:25:39] <Tom_itx> if i get the iso for ubuntu 10.04 does it have emc on it too?
[01:26:10] <andypugh> Not the Ubuntu .iso no, but the EMC2 .iso has Ubuntu on it...
[01:26:21] <Tom_itx> the live cd thing
[01:26:53] <andypugh> The EMC2 liveCD has both, yes.
[01:27:15] <Tom_itx> well i hope i'm looking at the right one
[01:27:31] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/21/4/
[01:27:39] <Tom_itx> yeah
[01:27:57] <andypugh> That's the one then.
[01:28:29] <Tom_itx> is that the install or does it run off the cd?
[01:36:23] <elmo401> it will install
[01:37:08] <elmo401> just like ubuntu (anaconda is the name, I believe)
[01:38:33] <Tom_itx> i'm not much of a linux user
[01:38:44] <Tom_itx> i use debian on my server and that's about it
[01:40:38] <alan-afk> If you're going to install a complete distribution from scratch, I just finished doing that.
[01:40:47] <alan-afk> I installed Ubuntu 10.4 from their site
[01:41:01] <alan-afk> and then just asked it to install EMC from the "Software Center" and it all worked.
[01:41:18] <Tom_itx> sounds like a plan
[01:41:37] <Tom_itx> i gotta get the pc104 back together first
[01:41:52] <alan-afk> Except I fought with the inboard video for a while and just gave up and stuck a random ATI card I found on the floor in and now it works again.
[01:42:08] <Valen> andypugh: that mesa card mode was what I was thinking
[01:42:18] <Valen> can it do advance and such like as well
[01:42:19] <alan-afk> Is it a pretty decent PC-104 cardset?
[01:42:29] <Tom_itx> old
[01:43:07] <elmo401> using the EMC cd is just as easy. it IS 10.04
[01:43:21] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/SBC/PDF/PCM-9372%20Datasheet%20Ed1.pdf
[01:43:24] <andypugh> Tom_itx: You can run off the CD first, then if it all works and looks good you can go for the full install.
[01:43:38] <elmo401> alan-afk: what is your latency with that ATi card?
[01:43:48] <Tom_itx> there's the short poop sheet on it
[01:43:50] <alan-afk> Just testing it now.
[01:43:56] <alan-afk> Radeon 9200 PCI
[01:44:08] <Tom_itx> i think it's 667Mhz
[01:45:07] <elmo401> Tom_itx: looks like a decent board... though I have nothing to compare it to :P
[01:45:18] <Tom_itx> they were free
[01:45:24] <Tom_itx> and free is usually good
[01:45:26] <alan-afk> Pretty bad latency. Servo:75,000 Base: 33,500 (Bargh.)
[01:46:19] <elmo401> bargh indeed!
[01:46:34] <elmo401> Tom_itx: they? more then one? can I buy one? :)
[01:46:43] <elmo401> though, I have been looking at one of these: http://www.mini-box.com/D510MO-mini-ITX-Intel
[01:46:58] <Valen> andypugh: any provision for advancing commutation with RPM?
[01:47:00] <Tom_itx> well, this is an itx
[01:47:26] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/itx/itx_thumb_index.php
[01:47:30] <Tom_itx> that's what i'm on atm
[01:52:24] <elmo401> nice compact setup.
[01:52:34] <elmo401> CF card reader underneath the pcmcia
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[02:07:14] <andypugh> Valen: Not built-in, but the phase-lead is an input pin so you could do that with external modules.
[02:08:25] <andypugh> Tom_itx: This is my mini-ITX machine, like a "there-I-Fixed-It" iPad. http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5561833485877320706
[02:08:50] <andypugh> (and the next picture)
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[02:18:10] <Tom_itx> what's it gonna be when it grows up?
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[02:21:20] <elmo401> portable x-ray machine?
[02:21:21] <elmo401> ;)
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[02:23:24] <andypugh> It's the touchscreen console for my milling machine.
[02:24:10] <Tom_itx> nice
[02:24:32] <Tom_itx> i got a touch screen with the pc104's but unfortunately the lcd got broke in shipping
[02:24:54] <Tom_itx> he'd sent a spare touch pannel for the front of it but the lcd is crap
[02:25:30] <elmo401> try a surplus store
[02:25:35] <Tom_itx> no go
[02:25:37] <Tom_itx> i did
[02:25:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/SBC/lcdpannel1.jpg
[02:26:03] <Tom_itx> can't really see it there
[02:26:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/SBC/lcdpanel.jpg
[02:26:31] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/SBC/lcd_spot.jpg
[02:26:36] <Tom_itx> lower left
[02:26:44] <Tom_itx> it still works but looks crappy
[02:28:56] <elmo401> low rez?
[02:29:24] <Tom_itx> yeah
[02:29:39] <Tom_itx> another freebie
[02:30:14] <elmo401> I want to have a touch screen with a separate DRO for the 4 needed values (including distance to go)
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[03:42:21] <elmo401> I have a simple project. I am making a '5 year' logo for http://linuxcaffe.ca/sites/all/themes/linuxcaffe/logo.png I do not know the font... any ideas?
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[06:50:11] <toastydeath> there is an open source utility, the name begins with G
[06:50:22] <toastydeath> that reads a database or csv
[06:50:38] <toastydeath> and spits out a text document based on templates that read in the data
[06:50:47] <toastydeath> does anyone know what i am talking about and what the name of it is
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[07:25:30] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Id you remember what it is, let me know.
[07:25:36] <Jymmm> toastydeath: If you remember what it is, let me know.
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[07:27:05] <toastydeath> Jymmm, ?
[07:27:22] <toastydeath> it's like a universal mail merge program that spits out any arbitrary ascii language
[07:27:39] <toastydeath> i had the name of it in my goddamn phone and i flashed my phone without remembering to back up that note
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[07:28:47] <Jymmm> did it have a UI ?
[07:29:23] <Jymmm> toastydeath: did it have a UI ?
[07:31:00] <Jymmm> toastydeath: did it have a UI or just CLI?
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[07:31:11] <Jymmm> toastydeath: do you have any of the templates it uses?
[07:31:27] <toastydeath> i don't have anything at all
[07:31:31] <toastydeath> it was all cli
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[07:31:43] <toastydeath> the templates had three sections - header, template, footer
[07:32:09] <toastydeath> the header does the database queries and processing, plus spits out the actual language header (latex preamble, html header/body/table stuff)
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[07:32:27] <toastydeath> the actual template is read for every row that is in the dataset
[07:32:37] <toastydeath> and it inserts the data from the dataset based on a tag
[07:33:31] <toastydeath> like, "Dear Mrs. %column1%, who lives at %column2%, you owe us %column3% amount of money"
[07:33:56] <toastydeath> so you could generate things like tables, or sets of letters, or reports, etc
[07:34:16] <toastydeath> this is driving me insane
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[07:59:12] <toastydeath> Jymmm, here it is
[07:59:13] <toastydeath> http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/timc/gurgle/
[08:02:35] <Jymmm> cool
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[08:27:19] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Nice utility. I'd suggest that you start using google bookmarks =)
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[12:07:40] <Guest152> hi
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[12:08:00] <JT-Shop> hmm the bot must be broken
[12:09:07] <psha> JT-Shop: which one?
[12:09:15] <psha> good morning
[12:09:32] <JT-Shop> I've not had my first cup of joe yet psha
[12:09:51] <JT-Shop> the one that says hi do you have a question
[12:09:59] <JT-Shop> good morning
[12:10:06] <psha> hi
[12:10:07] <Guest152> good morning
[12:10:13] <psha> it's working! :D
[12:10:17] <Guest152> this type of chat is new to me
[12:10:35] <psha> JT-Shop: he's disconnected...
[12:10:37] <Guest152> I have build a cnc machine togehter with a friend
[12:10:45] <JT-Shop> Guest152: you just type in your question
[12:11:06] <Guest152> It works on xp, now I want to run it with emc2
[12:11:41] <Guest152> I can control x and y-axis, but I cannot control the z-axis
[12:12:13] <Guest152> Is this the right platform to ask questions about it?
[12:12:59] <Guest152> The problem could be that I use two PCI-parallelport cards
[12:13:43] <Guest152> but with the graphic user interface of emc2 I only can configure the first pci card
[12:13:56] <JT-Shop> psha: I've got a good fire going out here I'll grab a cup of joe and meet you in the beer cave
[12:14:05] <JT-Shop> stepconf?
[12:14:13] <Guest152> yes
[12:14:19] <Guest152> stepconf
[12:14:57] <Guest152> Its possible to make the configuration through the .hal file
[12:15:14] <Guest152> but i am not familiar with the code i need
[12:16:19] <Guest152> I could copy the .hal file into this chat...if that makes sense
[12:16:35] <psha> one parport is not enought?
[12:16:56] <psha> i think current stepconf is not capable of configuring two parports
[12:17:19] <psha> so you have two options - either to handedit config files
[12:17:35] <psha> or place all axis control on one parport and other stuff on other
[12:18:10] <Guest152> ok
[12:18:15] <jthornton> Guest152: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal_parallel_port.html
[12:18:46] <jthornton> Guest152: what you do in the IRC is copy code to pastebin.ca and the just post the link
[12:19:05] <Guest152> Is it possible to handedit the .hal file ?
[12:19:10] <jthornton> yes
[12:19:44] <jthornton> once you make sure you don't want to change anything that the stepconf wiz did you can edit to your hearts delight
[12:20:35] <jthornton> the first section here shows you how to identify your parallel port http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[12:20:36] <Guest152> Thanks for the link, I read it already and it was helpful
[12:20:52] <Guest152> yes they are identfied
[12:21:13] <jthornton> opps wrong link
[12:21:47] <Guest152> the question is how to handedit the .hal file
[12:22:31] <jthornton> in Ubuntu you just click or double click on a hal file and it opens up in gedit
[12:22:55] <psha> Guest152: hal file is simple text config
[12:23:06] <Guest152> I know, but what code to type. I copy the file in that chat
[12:23:18] <jthornton> I see it is simple now to just use the port index like this loadrt hal_parport cfg="0"
[12:23:24] <psha> i'll suggest you faking stepconf about Z axis and then replacing parport-0 with parport-1
[12:24:11] <Guest152> doesnt work to copy the whole file
[12:25:07] <Guest152> oadrt hal_parport cfg="e000 out ec00 in "
[12:25:16] <Guest152> this are the two cards
[12:25:28] <jthornton> you can just use the port index
[12:25:41] <Guest152> addf parport.0.read base-thread
[12:25:47] <Guest152> addf parport.1.read base-thread
[12:26:33] <Guest152> we tried this
[12:26:46] <jthornton> and?
[12:26:51] <Guest152> here the code for z we trie, but didnt work
[12:26:57] <Guest152> net zpos-cmd axis.2.motor-pos-cmd => stepgen.2.position-cmd
[12:27:02] <Guest152> net zpos-fb stepgen.2.position-fb => axis.2.motor-pos-fb
[12:27:10] <Guest152> net zstep <= stepgen.2.step
[12:27:16] <Guest152> net zdir <= stepgen.2.dir
[12:27:22] <Guest152> net zenable axis.2.amp-enable-out => stepgen.2.enable
[12:27:24] <jthornton> did the paraport work?
[12:27:39] <jthornton> if you want to paste code use pastebin.ca
[12:27:54] <Guest152> It works on PC
[12:29:04] <Guest152> sorry: xp
[12:29:12] <jthornton> does the configuration run but not work or crash?
[12:29:30] <Guest152> I couldnt make it run on linux yet
[12:30:23] <Guest152> Another problem could be the pulses, didnt test everything
[12:30:26] <jthornton> does the configuration crash or not run your Z?
[12:30:33] <psha> Guest152: in that part of code 'parport' is not used at all
[12:30:46] <Guest152> the z doesnt move, x and y moves
[12:31:01] <jthornton> did you do a paraport write?
[12:31:49] <Guest152> what do you mean?
[12:32:06] <jthornton> addf parport.1.write base-thread
[12:32:59] <jthornton> read examines the inputs and write changes the output pins
[12:33:07] <Guest152> we tried that to identify two pci cards
[12:33:44] <Guest152> no i didnt do that
[12:33:58] <jthornton> if you don't write you don't get any output
[12:34:30] <jthornton> please read 1.1.6 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal_parallel_port.html
[12:37:03] <Guest152> I can move x and y, so there is output, however its generated
[12:37:17] <Guest152> maybe have to reread...
[12:37:38] <jthornton> x and y are on parallel port 0 and Z is on 1
[12:37:48] <Guest152> I have the configuration of windows xp
[12:37:58] <Guest152> yes
[12:38:01] <Guest152> exactly
[12:38:13] <Guest152> and y has the same pin number than z
[12:38:17] <Guest152> thats the problem
[12:38:30] <jthornton> read 1.1.6 it shows how a parallel port is set up
[12:38:43] <Guest152> ok
[12:39:29] <Guest152> so you mean how to configure the code by hand to get the right pulses to the machine
[12:39:32] <Guest152> right?
[12:39:58] <Guest152> Or you mean to change the adresses of each pin?
[12:40:47] <jthornton> I mean how to set up the second paraport by copying what you see for paraport.0
[12:40:47] <Guest152> I would prefer to keep the hardware wiring, and just change the sofware configuartion
[12:41:16] <Guest152> ok, I will read that again...
[12:41:21] <Guest152> many thanks to you all
[12:41:35] <jthornton> ok, it gets easier as you go along
[12:41:51] <Guest152> To know that its possible to handedit is already a big help
[12:42:17] <Guest152> where are you based?
[12:42:37] <jthornton> Swamp East Missouri
[12:42:40] <jthornton> and you?
[12:42:54] <Guest152> I am in Berlin, Germany
[12:43:46] <Guest152> I am a member of Open Design City
[12:43:48] <Guest152> http://odc.betahaus.de/
[12:44:09] <Guest152> still have to learn a lot about that technology
[12:44:36] <Guest152> thank you, have a nice day and see you next time!
[12:45:15] <jthornton> ok good luck and if you pick a name when you log in we can remember your problems
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[12:49:31] <morfic_> 'morning
[12:50:53] <Guest152> ok, I will do that next time, greetings to East Missouri :)
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[15:59:35] <Jymmm> Morning
[15:59:42] <psha> evening
[15:59:47] <Tom_itx> hello
[15:59:57] <psha> hello small one ;)
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[18:26:34] <alan-afk> Ugh, there's something seriously wrong with my dental mill. No matter what I change (stepper current, velocity, acceleration) it insists on dropping steps sometimes.
[18:27:00] <alan-afk> It even seemed to get worse when I ran very slowly which surprised me.
[18:27:27] <alan-afk> I even think I saw 'Z' going in the wrong directioni one time, but it was about 1:00 am, so I may have lost it by then.
[18:28:13] <alan-afk> I think I need to write a little C program to step from limit-to-limit and count the steps and get some idea of how bad the problem is.
[18:28:40] <alan-afk> Then it's getting out the scope and trying to reverse-engineer the home brew interface I inherited.
[18:29:04] <i_tarzan> dental mills are pneumatic
[18:29:22] <alan-afk> Here's a link to the page of the guy I got it from: http://taomc.com/educational_uses/teaching_machines/dental_mill.html
[18:29:45] <alan-afk> This ine is 3-axis stepper and a brushless DC (or maybe stepper) driven milling head.
[18:31:12] <i_tarzan> by dental mill i think a dentistry mill
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[18:38:39] <alan-afk> That's what this one was. I guess it was used to mill temporary teeth out of plastic or something like that.
[18:38:45] <alan-afk> Here's the machine: http://www.abilitysystems.com/dentallab.html
[18:39:34] <pcw_home> did you try more conservative step timings (or invert the step pulse) ?
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[18:41:54] <alan-afk> I'll go pull the timings and let you know what they are set to. Maybe they're too liberal. ;-)
[18:43:15] <alan-afk> 10 microseconds step and space. 4 microseconds setup and hold. That sounds pretty slow to me.
[18:43:35] <pcw_home> Do you have the drive specs?
[18:45:01] <alan-afk> The drives are API CMD-260 but all I can find is a marketing sheet on them. http://www.apicontrols.com/newapi/apiftp/APIControls/PDF/apim-dist-cmd-260.pdf
[18:46:51] <alan-afk> I did find "Step inputs" Requires 0.5 microsecond minimum width, 1 MHz max. pulse rate, steps on trailing edge.
[18:47:35] <pcw_home> So you need an active low pulse
[18:51:23] <alan-afk> How do I configure that? (I'll start looking)
[18:52:46] <alan-afk> Oh hey! This "News Flash" might be my problem! http://www.timgoldstein.com/cnc/CMD260FAQ.htm
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[19:01:18] <pcw_home> Ah always good to find someone whose gone down the same path...
[19:01:20] <pcw_home> bbl breakfast!
[19:08:47] <alan-afk> I'm going to the shop to help my son with a USFirst robotics build. I'll be back at it on Sunday.
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[22:05:10] <skunkworks> yeck - something just happened http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[22:05:15] <skunkworks> oops
[22:05:17] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
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[22:10:27] <skunkworks> yeck - something just happened while emc is running. the computer gets slower and slower
[22:15:09] <skunkworks> is there a way to test s.m.a.r.t errors in linux
[22:15:29] <skunkworks> it seems to get really slow - on the reboot there is drive errors
[22:15:35] * skunkworks googles
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[22:21:31] <skunkKandT> http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=132793
[22:21:35] <skunkKandT> is that bad?
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[22:23:43] <skunkworks> crap - looks like the hard drive is going bad
[22:28:14] <skunkworks> now it is up to 319...
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[22:33:25] <skunkworks> laptop has 3
[22:38:19] <Tom_itx> that's it's final courtesy warning to you
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[23:21:03] <jrshaul> Has anyone DIY'd an automatic bit changing setup?
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[23:22:37] <JT-Shop> yea
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[23:41:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: yo
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[23:41:52] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:42:05] <Jymmm> hang on it's being slow...
[23:42:22] <JT-Shop> I'm slow too after hammering all day
[23:42:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://i51.tinypic.com/24z9hnc.jpg
[23:43:13] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I laser engraved that last night on black granite
[23:44:00] <JT-Shop> nice! you burned the negative part?
[23:44:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yeah, just inverted it to let the polished granite stand out.
[23:44:49] <JT-Shop> cool
[23:45:10] <Jymmm> thanks =)
[23:45:11] <JT-Shop> what did you use to make the letters?
[23:45:44] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Corel Draw - It's the "industry standard" for laser engravers.
[23:46:15] <JT-Shop> I had that back on my 286 I think or maybe my 386
[23:46:21] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I culd have used InkScape or pretty much anything else that I can print from.
[23:46:28] <JT-Shop> had like 6 floppies
[23:46:32] <Jymmm> heh
[23:46:38] <Jymmm> One DVD now
[23:46:40] <JT-Shop> I think I still have them LOL
[23:46:44] <Jymmm> maybe two
[23:47:15] <Jymmm> If the guy at the store didn't cut the tile at an angle it would have turned out perfect.
[23:47:36] <JT-Shop> yea, I saw that bummer
[23:47:43] <JT-Shop> them 2 utes?
[23:47:55] <Jymmm> whats a ute?
[23:48:07] <JT-Shop> you never saw My Cousin Vinnie?
[23:48:28] <Jymmm> Yep, that's why I said whats a ute =)
[23:48:35] <Jymmm> Herman Munster
[23:48:52] <Jymmm> the Judge was Herman Munster
[23:49:02] <Jymmm> good movie btw
[23:49:07] <JT-Shop> not really
[23:49:16] <Valen> http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/0/5BD3DD1628375398CA256B4A00100E3E/$file/2001.12.5nAUD01B_ovf_Ford_FalconXR6PursuitUte.jpg?OpenElement
[23:49:18] <Valen> ute
[23:49:27] <Jymmm> I'm in lust with the chick in it
[23:49:48] <Jymmm> Marisa Tomei.
[23:50:24] <Jymmm> A young Marisa Tomei that is
[23:51:00] <Valen> I can see being in lust with her
[23:51:43] <JT-Shop> that was Fred Gwynne's last movie I think
[23:53:26] <JT-Shop> are you sure you tightened it up enough?
[23:55:09] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: full program http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[23:55:52] <Valen> thats the biggest issue with our new spindle, how to do tool changes on it, its only got a collet
[23:56:22] <JT-Shop> like a R8 collet
[23:56:50] <Valen> ER11 or so I think
[23:56:56] <Valen> ER12
[23:57:01] <Valen> ffs ER13
[23:58:17] <JT-Shop> yea that would be a tough one to change automagicly
[23:59:06] <jrshaul> A friend of mine is thinking of building a Shopbot knockoff.
[23:59:19] * JT-Shop hums the final jeopardy tune while waiting on skunkworks video to download
[23:59:36] <jrshaul> Anyone seen any projects along these lines? I don't know much about machining, but the rack-and-pinion thing seems much more dust-friendly than a ballscrew.
[23:59:41] <skunkworks> sorry
[23:59:49] <skunkworks> internet issues?