#emc | Logs for 2010-12-25

[00:04:26] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:27:39] <JT-Shop> Twas the night before Christmas and all through the house not a creature was stirring not even a mouse
[00:28:43] <JT-Shop> The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, In hopes that St Nicholas soon would be there.
[00:29:05] <JT-Shop> The children were nestled all snug in their beds, While visions of sugar-plums danced in their heads.
[00:29:20] <JT-Shop> And mamma in her ‘kerchief, and I in my cap, Had just settled our brains for a long winter’s nap.
[00:29:50] <JT-Shop> When out in the shop there arose such a clatter, I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
[00:30:02] <JT-Shop> Away to the window I flew like a flash, Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash.
[00:30:22] <JT-Shop> The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow Gave the lustre of mid-day to objects below.
[00:31:11] <JT-Shop> When, what to my wondering eyes should appear, But UPS Freight, and eight tinny brown's.
[00:31:25] <JT-Shop> With a little old driver, so lively and quick, I knew in a moment it must be St Nick.
[00:31:38] <JT-Shop> More rapid than eagles his coursers they came, And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name!
[00:32:49] <JT-Shop> "Now Doug! now, Danny! now, Phil and Vixen! On, Charlie! On, Clarance! on, on Donny and Blitzen!
[00:33:26] <JT-Shop> To the back of the shop! to the top of the wall! Now dash away! Dash away! Dash away all!"
[00:34:09] <JT-Shop> As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly, When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky.
[00:35:01] <JT-Shop> So in to the shop the coursers they flew, With the sleigh full of machines, and EMC 2.
[00:35:42] <JT-Shop> And then, in a twinkling, I heard in the shop The prancing and dancing of each little shoe.
[00:36:09] <JT-Shop> As I drew in my head, and was turning around, Out of the shop St Nicholas came with a bound.
[00:36:21] <JT-Shop> He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot, And his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot.
[00:36:41] <JT-Shop> A bundle of cutting tools he had flung on his back, And he looked like a peddler, just opening his pack.
[00:36:48] <JT-Shop> His eyes-how they twinkled! his dimples how merry! His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
[00:36:57] <JT-Shop> His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow, And the beard of his chin was as white as the snow.
[00:37:11] <JT-Shop> The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth, And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath.
[00:37:22] <JT-Shop> He had a broad face and a little round belly, That shook when he laughed, like a bowlful of jelly!
[00:37:32] <JT-Shop> He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf, And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself!
[00:37:44] <JT-Shop> A wink of his eye and a twist of his head, Soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread.
[00:38:17] <JT-Shop> He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work, And filled the tool crib, then turned with a jerk.
[00:38:45] <JT-Shop> And laying his finger aside of his nose, And giving a nod, out of the shop he flew!
[00:39:02] <JT-Shop> He sprang to his truck, to his team gave a whistle, And away they all flew like the down of a thistle.
[00:39:15] <JT-Shop> But I heard him exclaim, ‘ere he drove out of sight, "Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good-night!"
[00:39:24] <JT-Shop> Merry Christmas guys
[00:40:07] <pcw_home> Merry Christmas!
[00:40:09] <pcw_home> leo__ Maximum encoder count rate depends on encoder filter setup, with filter off (3 clocks input filter)
[00:40:10] <pcw_home> and on a 5I20 maximum count rate is around 16 MHz
[00:40:12] <pcw_home> with filter on (15 clocks input filter) the maximum count rate is 4.4 MHz
[00:40:13] <pcw_home> With your 4096 line encoder (16384 count/rev) at 10K RPM the count rate would be
[00:40:15] <pcw_home> 2.73666 MHz (166.66 RPS*16384)
[00:40:16] <pcw_home> Has JT gotten into the egg-nog early?
[00:40:32] <JT-Shop> naw, went right to the wine
[00:40:54] <Jymmm> * Jymmm will stick with the Tequilia
[00:41:04] <JT-Shop> Merry Christmas Peter and Jym
[00:41:31] <Jymmm> Merry Christmas jthornton, JT-D510, JT-Shop
[00:41:46] <Jymmm> Merry Christmas Everyone!
[00:42:00] <elmo40> merry hoho everyone :)
[00:42:10] <skunkworks> Merry Christmas!
[00:42:26] <elmo40> * elmo40 puts his head into the (spiked) punch bowl :)
[00:42:30] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is drinking coffee... is it too late? Heck no!
[00:43:10] <JT-Shop> I'll be glad when I don't have to open up the garage door to remove a piece of stock from the lathe spindle
[00:50:22] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: it is never too late!
[00:50:40] <elmo40> JT-Shop: remove stock? what are you making?
[00:51:08] <JT-Shop> making a clutch alignment tool for my F40 tractor
[00:51:33] <JT-Shop> to pull the stock out of the back of the spindle I have to open the door lol
[00:54:20] <JT-Shop> * JT-Shop heads inside to eat dinner then turn on the magnetassswitch
[00:54:35] <JT-Shop> it's on the lazyboy...
[07:20:15] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[11:13:44] <motioncontrol> Good Christmas at all.
[11:18:26] <morfic-> morfic- is now known as morfic
[14:08:48] <pingufan> Hello, I hope you had a wonderful Christmas time.
[14:09:32] <pingufan> Is somebody here who can help me with understanding coordinates and using emc2, please?
[14:10:21] <elmo40> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_coordinates.html
[14:11:20] <pingufan> I read this already in the User Manual I downloaded, but I do not really understand it from the practical side.
[14:11:59] <pingufan> Can you explain me how I do that in practice? I can give you details on what I want to do.
[14:12:11] <alex_joni> pingufan: try asking a more detailed question what you want to do
[14:12:28] <pingufan> Ok. I
[14:13:54] <pingufan> I have a 3 axes mill. When I send the auto-home command, the origin 0/0/0 is in the rear-left-uppermost position. This is the hardware origin of the mill, detected by three end-switches.
[14:14:09] <alex_joni> right
[14:17:01] <pingufan> When I want to work on a workpiece, I mount a workpiece-holder onto the machine desk, with a "zero-point" on it. This is my logical origin (0/0/0). I want to manually move the machine to this point (this point is somewhere within the machine's limits) and then tell EMC2 that this is the porkpiece home position. All milling coordinates reter to this point.
[14:17:30] <pingufan> How do I tell this to EMC2 ?
[14:18:00] <alex_joni> there is a touch-off button in AXIS
[14:18:21] <alex_joni> you simply jog to the logical 0 position on X, and hit touch-off, select X and enter 0
[14:18:44] <alex_joni> you can also do this touch-off for non-zero values (for example using an edge finder, or whatnot)
[14:19:02] <pingufan> And the same I do with Y and Z ?
[14:19:25] <alex_joni> yup
[14:22:26] <pingufan> But there's another issue: I will mount a tooltip sensor somewhere in a rear corner of the machine desk. So the sensor always references the tool-tip to the machine's coordinates, not the relative zero point. As I must sometimes replace a tool, during milling I will have to re-adjust the Z-Axis after every tool-change.
[14:22:50] <alex_joni> yes
[14:22:58] <pingufan> So how do I get all that together?
[14:23:18] <alex_joni> check the sample nc_files for a procedure you can use to autoadjust based on tool-length
[14:23:43] <alex_joni> pingufan: surely not at once ;) you start learning using them one at a time .. then you'll see it's not that complicated
[14:24:27] <pingufan> I must tell you that I had to do with very basic G codes ~35 years ago when I was studying.
[14:25:37] <pingufan> So EMC is totally new land for me.
[14:26:51] <pingufan> It would be wonderful is a eBook for learning EMC would exist, _teaching_ it step by step. Is something like that available?
[14:27:29] <jthornton> there is the fine manuals to read
[14:28:21] <pingufan> The user manual is not going deep enough into the basics for learning it - from my point of view.
[14:28:58] <jthornton> did you read the Getting Started Guide?
[14:31:42] <pingufan> I got the mill parametrized by myself (acceleration ramp, maximum speeds, ...) so it finds back to 0/0/0 from wherever I jogged to. Then i had to stop because I had no time to continue working on it, and I also have to finish the machine desk first...
[14:33:23] <pingufan> Was not really easy, I initially used to high stepping speeds and lost steps.
[14:35:31] <jthornton> yes, building a CNC machine can be quite a steep learning curve
[14:46:48] <pingufan> Well, as I have now a bit of time, I want to finish one of the last (but important) parts of the mill. I need a spindle which has to be very long and slim (ø8mm x 200m length). As this is really difficult, I will buy a replacement part from Proxxon, run it between two bearings and extend it on its rear end with another part and another bearing. All that inside a ø20mm stainless steel tube.
[14:47:47] <pingufan> Each bearing will get an adapter ring to fit exactly into the inner side of the tube. You see, this is a very small machine.
[14:49:30] <alex_joni> sanctuary.us.s03e10.hdtv.xvid-fqm
[14:49:31] <alex_joni> ol
[14:50:26] <pingufan> In parallel I would like to learn basic steps in coding G-Codes and watching the operation on the screen first, then also mill some foam, finally wood... saves tools.
[14:55:26] <pingufan> My final target is that I can mill plastic enclosures for electronic devices.
[15:01:08] <leo> is there a detailed example of sum2 in the manual or just the basic definition?
[15:14:29] <awallin> leo: connect two inputs, the output will be the sum.
[15:14:55] <skunkworks> awallin: anything new with the extruder>
[15:14:57] <skunkworks> ?
[15:15:09] <awallin> next week,,,
[15:15:16] <skunkworks> neat
[15:16:20] <jthornton> leo: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/sum2.9.html
[15:17:20] <awallin> skunkworks: have to find out if we are losing steps or what it is that makes the prints lean over. then need better g-code generator than repstrapper, maybe skeinforge
[15:18:09] <skunkworks> yeck
[15:18:15] <skunkworks> I am sure you will figure it out.
[15:25:10] <pingufan> Hi, I don't want to buid something into my mill that makes troubles. My 0/0/0 point is left-rear-uppermost. I think about mounting a microswitch-button somewhere in very rear on the machine desk to sense tool length.(I manually change the tool, then the machine moves above the button and moves down until button is pressed.
[15:25:21] <pingufan> Is this a good way or problematic?
[15:25:31] <pingufan> What precision can I expect?
[15:26:47] <jthornton> awallin: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common_Stepper_Diagnostics.html#r1_3_1
[15:27:02] <elmo40> that depends on the switch and how fast/slow you home it
[15:27:43] <nullie> and latency
[15:28:00] <jthornton> pingufan: I find it easier and less problematic to just use the dowel and a fixed point to set the Z of a tool
[15:29:56] <pingufan> jthornton: So the tool stands in the dowel while I tighten the collet chuck?
[15:32:42] <JT-Shop> no, place the tip of the tool lower than the diameter of the dowel, then as you raise Z until the dowel just rolls under the tool tip
[15:33:03] <JT-Shop> I use the fixed jaw on my mill and the face of the spindle on my lathe
[15:34:31] <pingufan> Ah! So I need no switch at all then. Makes life surely easier.
[15:35:13] <JT-Shop> yea, just set all the tools to the same height and use g54 offset for the material
[15:36:24] <leo> in the sum2 page, where fo I set the gains?
[15:36:31] <JT-Shop> just make sure you set the tool offset with the dowel not the fixture offset
[15:36:53] <JT-Shop> the gains are parameters
[15:37:05] <leo> and are set where?
[15:37:22] <JT-Shop> a hal file
[15:37:24] <leo> in the ini?
[15:39:37] <pingufan> Ok. My mill has a hardware origin of 0/0/0 which actually is left-rear in ~ +60mm. So Y is increasing to the front. Actually, my working coordinate system is different, I'd prefer a reference point of 0/0/0 in left-front-lowest on the workpiece holder, so the workpiece is within positive coordinates.
[15:39:48] <leo> in a feedback corrected spindle speed hal configuration - in my thinking it should be similar to how the axis feedback is tied in
[15:40:18] <leo> how come the axis examples have no sum2.0 in the hal example file in hm2-servo
[15:40:32] <leo> but the closed loop spindle example in the wiki has it?
[15:41:10] <leo> or do the axis drives not read feedback in the "samples"?
[15:42:49] <JT-Shop> pingufan: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common_User_Concepts.html#r1_5_1
[15:46:28] <pingufan> I will read that carefully. Only for understanding: Can the mill home to a end-switch in the rear and then set the Y-coordinate to to +270mm instead of zero? In this case the machine coordinate system is identical to my user coordinate system instead of being mirrored. Is this better or no difference at all?
[15:50:26] <JT-Shop> yes that can be done, just depends on how you program your g code
[15:51:21] <JT-Shop> for me I prefer the front left top corner of my fixed jaw to be 0-0-0
[15:52:43] <pingufan> Me, too. But this mill was formerly an engraving machine and has built-in switches.
[15:53:57] <pingufan> It is a "Gravograph VX"
[15:54:40] <Jymmm> Merry Christmas Everyone!
[15:56:43] <Jymmm> Especially you Tiny Tim ( JT-Shop)
[15:56:50] <pingufan> I replaced now the damaged drive electronics by a new one (now Gecko drives), so it moves now again. Next step is a new spindle. Instead of the graver I want to insert a spindle with a little collet chuck, so I can then mill with thin tools.
[15:56:57] <pingufan> Merry Christmas, too!
[16:02:52] <pingufan> JT-Shop: Do you think that a 40mm thick piece of a Kitchen-Work-Plate is strong and even enough as machine desk? I don't use liquid coolant and I want to do first steps without paying a lot for a T-slot plate at the beginning.
[16:15:19] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: You're in the midwest aren't ya?
[16:16:31] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: swamp east Missouri
[16:17:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Eh, close enough =) They are looking for Mid-West Agents... http://www.shenhuilaser.com.cn/
[16:17:33] <leo> motion.requested velocity - is that a spindle only thing or used for lots of stuff?
[16:18:11] <JT-Shop> I use that for my plasma cutter
[16:18:42] <JT-Shop> compare it to the actual velocity to determine if the THC should be enabled or not
[16:23:14] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ALWAYS enable the THC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:25:44] <atmega> I'd avoid the THC while operating plasma equipment
[16:25:59] <atmega> oh, that THC, nevermind.
[16:27:29] <Jymmm> atmega: M e r r y C h r i s t m a s ! and WHICH THC would you avoid?
[16:27:52] <atmega> the good one
[16:27:58] <Jymmm> ah
[16:27:59] <atmega> if you are in to that sort of thing.
[16:29:06] <Jymmm> atmega: Eh, some are and far better than DUI's imo. But it's more fun to joke about whenever JT-Shop mentions "THC"
[16:31:34] <atmega> I'd swap the illegality myself... though I don't consume either.
[16:32:07] <Jymmm> I agree
[16:51:16] <i_tarzan> plasma is expensive and should be avoided
[16:54:28] <leo> trying to get spindle motor encoder feedback working
[16:54:43] <leo> how do i scale encoder velocity to rmp?
[16:54:47] <leo> rpm even
[16:55:05] <leo> # Initialize the scale
[16:55:05] <leo> # (This is used to scale the encoder pulse to RPM)
[16:55:05] <leo> # (In my case, i have 4096 ppr so it is scaled by 60)
[16:55:05] <leo> loadrt scale count=1
[16:55:05] <leo> addf scale.0 servo-thread
[16:55:06] <leo> setp scale.0.gain 2457600
[16:55:17] <leo> is in my hal file
[17:04:14] <leo> plasma is cheaper than laser once the gases are calculated in cost
[17:06:08] <leo> http://pastebin.ca/2029031
[17:06:16] <leo> thats my vfd hal file
[17:06:41] <leo> need to know if I am right in scaling my encoder velocity
[17:07:05] <leo> right now I do a m3s100 or m3s50 and the drive is saying 6800 rpm....
[17:18:03] <leo> and merry christmas everyone
[17:18:31] <leo> thank you for all the help to nthis linux/emc noob
[17:18:57] <leo> who absolutely hates this curved microsoft keyboard
[18:30:26] <Jymmm> * Jymmm loves his keyboard... http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB110LL/A
[18:31:59] <awallin> leo: what are you doing with the encoder, scale, and sum2 components? seems they are not connected anywhere, and you don't need a separate encoder component if you are using the one on the hostmot2 card... you should draw a diagram of the pid loop you want
[18:42:34] <Connor> Merry Christmas!
[18:43:20] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/12/24/santa.helps.dogs/index.html?hpt=Sbin
[18:45:55] <elmo40> happy hoho everyone
[19:11:44] <Jymmm> elmo40: Merry Christmas!
[19:14:43] <elmo40> Jymmm: you use a mac keyboard?
[19:52:54] <Jymmm> elmo40: yep
[19:53:10] <Jymmm> USB replacement of my IBM kybd
[19:56:05] <Jymmm> elmo40: I use a MAC too =)
[20:17:24] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: now if I could just persuade/trick/beg Connor to write the delete php for me the recipe site will be complete
[20:17:50] <Jymmm> LOL
[20:20:26] <JT-Shop> that would be a nice Christmas present... much better than the lump of coal
[20:41:35] <jthornton> I agree
[20:46:38] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I added the Sides category for you
[20:47:58] <leo> awallin - still here?
[20:49:37] <leo> I don't exactly know what to do with those - what I have loads
[20:49:58] <leo> just know it does not work correctly because I am probably not loading the scale right
[20:50:33] <leo> explain how i diagram the pid
[20:51:17] <leo> the encoder on the motor counts 4096 counts per rev
[20:54:16] <elmo40> JT-Shop: is this your site? http://www.panix.com/~clay/cookbook/
[20:54:55] <JT-Shop> no
[20:55:48] <JT-Shop> elmo40: http://gnipsel.com/
[20:57:16] <leo> i have determined that the closed loop spindle example on the wiki is useless to me
[20:57:29] <JT-Shop> why is that?
[20:57:38] <leo> how do i scale the encoder and tell it where the spindle encoder is for a mesa 5i20?
[20:58:12] <leo> about 70% of the stuff won't work from the sample due to different hardware/ software requirements
[20:58:13] <elmo40> JT-Shop: ah yes. I remember.
[20:58:20] <elmo40> can't wait for the beer page to be complete :)
[20:59:00] <JT-Shop> leo: is this a lathe or mill spindle your working on?
[20:59:10] <leo> 4 axis vmc
[20:59:14] <JT-Shop> do you want to see my lathe spindle config?
[20:59:18] <leo> 20 hp ac vector
[20:59:32] <elmo40> leo: nice mill! 20Hp??? DAMN
[20:59:32] <leo> is it on a mesa board?
[20:59:49] <leo> the big lathe is 50 HP dc
[20:59:56] <JT-Shop> 5i20 7i33 7i37 setup
[21:00:06] <leo> and the gundrill has a 50hp high presssure pump
[21:00:14] <leo> lets see it
[21:02:49] <JT-Hardinge> leo: you just want to see the spindle part?
[21:02:59] <leo> sure....
[21:03:21] <leo> my spindle stuff I put in a separate halfile for now, may put it together once it works
[21:03:54] <JT-Hardinge> leo: http://www.pastebin.ca/2029266
[21:04:07] <leo> seems odd to me that there is nothing on the spindle in the hm-2 servo sample configs folder
[21:04:37] <JT-Hardinge> my lathe is +-10 for velocity input and encoder feedback to the 7i33
[21:04:56] <JT-Hardinge> he might not have one
[21:05:36] <JT-Hardinge> might be a couple of extra things in there as I have a spindle lock pin and a spindle brake
[21:05:42] <JT-Hardinge> enjoy
[21:06:28] <JT-Shop> * JT-Shop goes back to tractor assembly
[21:27:46] <leo> there are some signals not in mine right now jt shop - for instance spinle-speed-dac and spindle- brake-logic
[21:27:52] <boot|downstairs> boot|downstairs is now known as boot|sleep
[21:28:00] <boot|sleep> boot|sleep is now known as boot|wank
[21:31:08] <JT-Shop> do you have a spindle brake?
[21:32:24] <leo> no
[21:32:42] <leo> i can comment it out but don't understand why i need 2 scales for the spindle
[21:35:35] <JT-Shop> I just copied that from rob and made it work on mine... I think there is some speed limit stuff that might not be needed
[21:38:18] <JT-Shop> I can pastebin the whole hal file if it will help
[21:38:53] <leo> it might
[21:39:10] <leo> want to understand what I have there when done
[21:53:25] <JT-Hardinge> hal http://www.pastebin.ca/2029313
[21:54:02] <JT-Hardinge> ini http://www.pastebin.ca/2029314
[22:13:11] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: ok, cool
[22:41:05] <Jymmm> JT-D510: JT-Shop jthornton: Ok, done.
[22:58:59] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: cool
[23:18:03] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: that looks tasty
[23:28:11] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: do you Emma Peel the potatoes?