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[00:04:58] <andypugh> What a curious use for a milling machine:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230551187141#ht_500wt_1156
[00:49:55] <skunkworks> andypugh: on a related note -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Epn5xD55U
[00:53:04] <andypugh> I have seen that before. What I don't get is at the beginning. There is a tray of bits of plastic which I suspect was loaded by a human. Then a big robot puts one in the machine. I can't help thinking that the tray-loader could load the machining centre.
[01:00:21] <JT-Hardinge> hmmm touch off doesn't seem to be working as I expect it to anymore in 2.5
[01:01:37] <andypugh> I haven't noticed any problems, but I haven't run it for several weeks
[01:02:20] <JT-Hardinge> I have the one that gives you the option to touch off to workpiece but it gives me a crazy number when I touch off Z
[01:03:13] <andypugh> How crazy?
[01:03:21] <JT-Hardinge> like 9" off
[01:03:32] <JT-Hardinge> when I tell it to be 0.000"
[01:04:11] <andypugh> The value on screen is not what you typed?
[01:04:17] <JT-Hardinge> no
[01:04:28] <andypugh> There was a report similar to that on the forum was there not?
[01:04:45] <JT-Hardinge> I don't remember one
[01:05:12] <JT-Hardinge> eww, I'm getting all kind of weird new errors with make
[01:05:49] <JT-Hardinge> emc/motion/usrmotintf.cc:694: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules
[01:06:01] <JT-Hardinge> I've never seen that before
[01:06:01] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,21/id,5211/lang,english/#5233
[01:06:05] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge warnings aren't errors
[01:06:28] <pfred1> when make stops with a [2] then it is an error
[01:06:39] <pfred1> then you can always try to make -f it ;)
[01:07:18] <pfred1> and sometimes the resulting binary even runs
[01:07:33] <JT-Hardinge> andypugh: yes, I remember that one
[01:09:25] <JT-Hardinge> hmmm, after a pull and a make things seem to be normal
[01:10:07] <JT-Hardinge> time to strap on the feed bag any way
[01:10:18] <JT-Hardinge> goodnight chaps
[01:10:36] <pfred1> yeah i have to call it early myself tonight
[01:10:44] <pfred1> big trip tomorrow
[01:58:22] <cliff> cliff is now known as cblack
[04:29:51] <willeo6709> on a mesa 7i37ta.....where are you supposed to get the 5v power to feed to the switches that make the inputs?
[04:42:20] <willeo6709> anybody here running mesa hardware?
[04:44:33] <Jymmm> There are many, mostly asleep by now though.
[05:45:45] <morficcell> morficcell is now known as morficmobile
[13:18:57] <Jymmm> Morning Folks!
[13:24:28] <jthornton> Morning Jymmm !
[13:24:46] <Jymmm> Hey jt
[13:25:25] <jthornton> turns out the power cube for the antenna is good for 300' on either side so I ditched the switch
[13:26:55] <Jymmm> jthornton: I have a 110/220 dust collector on the way. I might have to tap into the 220v dryer for power. My dryer has three prongs. Is there any kind of power strip or or something I could/should use?
[13:27:18] <Jymmm> jthornton: Ah, cool. good to hear. But as long as it only had a solo purpose, that's ok.
[13:27:48] <Jymmm> jthornton: I wans't trying to discourage it's use, just it's SHARED use =)
[13:30:33] <jthornton> I've see wye cords for 240v single phase before
[13:30:49] <jthornton> well the switch could not share anything as I was using it
[13:31:01] <jthornton> but if I don't need it...
[13:31:12] <Jymmm> =)
[13:31:47] <Jymmm> Ok, good to know on the Y cable. Where would I pick up such a thing? and is there 220vac extension cords by chance?
[13:32:47] <Jymmm> And since the dryer plug is only 3 prong, does that mean it's missing earth ground?
[13:33:43] <atmega> missing neutral
[13:34:18] <jthornton> yes, there are 240vac extension cords and I use one with my welders, plasma etc.
[13:34:36] <atmega> I use one on my compressor, but I made it out of 8gauge wire
[13:34:49] <Jymmm> Oh welder. Hmmm now that sounds expensive cord.
[13:35:22] <Jymmm> I have 110V@12ga cords atm
[13:35:24] <jthornton> well it was not 0.99 cents but cost effective for me
[13:36:28] <Jymmm> Well $20-30 would be ok for 25ft or so.
[13:36:41] <Jymmm> But I doubt it's gonna be that cheap.
[13:37:07] <jthornton> more like a couple of bucks a foot or so
[13:37:30] <Jymmm> What kind of outlet/plug is common to use for this?
[13:37:45] <jthornton> 30amp
[13:37:46] <Jymmm> jthornton: figures.
[13:37:53] <Jymmm> 30a what?
[13:38:24] <jthornton> a dryer is 30amp 3 or 4 prong
[13:38:33] <Jymmm> 3 prong
[13:39:54] <Jymmm> The DC is 220VAC@8Amp (peak)
[13:42:28] <atmega> should be fine on a 20amp 120vac circuit then
[13:43:31] <jthornton> Jymmm: just run it on 120vac that would be only 16amps
[13:44:10] <Jymmm> jthornton: I'm out of power in the garage. the 110 circuit is for the laser, only thing left is 220 circuit
[13:44:35] <jthornton> breaker box in the garage?
[13:44:46] <Jymmm> I wish =)
[13:45:01] <Jymmm> jthornton: The place is 50+ years old.
[13:45:04] <jthornton> dryer circuit in the garage?
[13:45:23] <Jymmm> Yes, 220VAC dryer is in the garage.
[13:45:55] <jthornton> are you savvy enough to wire up a second outlet from the dryer outlet?
[13:46:16] <jthornton> that is the most cost effective way to plug it in
[13:46:38] <Jymmm> I could, not sure what I'd just for a box though.
[13:46:58] <jthornton> does the DC come with a cord or just the need for electricity?
[13:47:17] <Jymmm> I think it's pre-wired for 110
[13:47:40] <Jymmm> http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DC3XX.html
[13:47:51] <atmega> pull one leg off and put a 120 outlet there
[13:48:09] <atmega> if you don't mind that pesky neutral problem
[13:48:24] <Jymmm> neutral problem?
[13:48:27] <Jymmm> explain
[13:48:44] <Jymmm> I know very little about 220
[13:48:46] <jthornton> the ground should be hooked to the neutral bar in your panel
[13:48:56] <atmega> yeah, but it's 50 years old
[13:49:01] <jthornton> but you should check to be sure it is bonded
[13:49:18] <Jymmm> How would I do that?
[13:49:26] <atmega> one leg of the 220circuit + ground/neutral == 110v circuit
[13:49:34] <atmega> just don't use them at the same time
[13:49:46] <jthornton> if it is a breaker panel it most likely is not 50 years old
[13:50:18] <Jymmm> Well 50yo is only 1960's now
[13:50:32] <Jymmm> There are breakers
[13:50:35] <jthornton> we had a fuse panel in the 60's
[13:50:42] <Jymmm> oh, ok.
[13:51:08] <Jymmm> Its all breakers, mostly 20A circuits except the ceiling lighting which is 15A
[13:51:33] <atmega> 1.5hp and 16amps... must be ungodly inefficient or made up numbers
[13:51:44] <jthornton> I would take the cover off and see how the ground wire is connected for the dryer
[13:52:03] <Jymmm> cover off the outlet or the panel?
[13:52:07] <jthornton> panel
[13:52:10] <atmega> both
[13:52:14] <jthornton> lol
[13:52:28] <jthornton> yea it might not even be connected
[13:52:49] <Jymmm> What should/might I see?
[13:53:14] <atmega> panel should have two bars, one neutral, one ground (white wires and bare wires) they should be connected
[13:53:26] <jthornton> the ground might be hanging free, connected to a ground bar, connected to the neutral bar...
[13:53:30] <atmega> outlet should have the middle prong connected to the ground wire
[13:53:45] <jthornton> * jthornton heads for the shower
[13:54:18] <atmega> I'd plug that thing in to a 15amp circuit and not worry about it.
[13:54:38] <Jymmm> atmega: There is no spare 15a circuit, that's the issue =)
[13:55:09] <atmega> take out a 20 amp breaker in that panel, replace it with a dual 20amp that fits in teh same space...
[13:56:16] <Jymmm> atmega: And you'll be right over to run the wires
[13:57:09] <atmega> kheh...where are you?
[13:57:17] <Jymmm> atmega: Now, explain this "neutral issue" you were talking about.
[13:57:20] <Jymmm> atmega: SFO
[13:57:28] <atmega> you buy the ticket, I'll come out
[13:58:23] <Jymmm> atmega: Better watch what you say.... I have an airline voucher sitting right here (seriously)
[13:58:30] <atmega> if you pull one leg off a 220 for a 110, you should really use neutral for the return path, but since the 3prong circuit has no neutral, you can use the ground. Inside the panel, ground and neutral are tied together.
[13:59:01] <atmega> so from a macro perspective, it is teh same thing, but it's not really since you don't have a separate frame ground
[13:59:22] <Jymmm> I have never understood that. how in the hell are neutral and ground different yet the same?
[13:59:48] <atmega> in a perfect world, they are the same
[14:00:12] <Jymmm> I was getting shocked touch PC cases around here, I found that ground wasn't connected, fixed that and no more shocks.
[14:00:32] <atmega> yeah... that's why I would check the outlet also
[14:00:49] <Jymmm> sure, I understand checking.
[14:00:55] <atmega> what's the floor made of?
[14:01:08] <Jymmm> But I still don't understand what this "neutral issue" is?
[14:01:12] <Jymmm> concrete
[14:01:37] <atmega> drill a hole in the floor, drive in a ground rod
[14:02:43] <Jymmm> I have access to ground
[14:02:51] <Jymmm> I have one of these
http://www.delstat.com/images/Outlet_Tester.jpg
[14:03:03] <Jymmm> but that's 110VAC
[14:03:34] <Jymmm> atmega: For the forth time, could you please explain this "neutral issue" you mentioned?
[14:03:50] <atmega> I did
[14:04:14] <Jymmm> What's the "issue" though?
[14:04:14] <atmega> if you pull off one leg of the 220, you don't really have a neutral for the return path, you just have the ground wire.
[14:04:30] <atmega> which is almost, but not quite the same.
[14:04:56] <Jymmm> what, as opposed to a four prong 220 outlet?
[14:05:21] <atmega> yeah, anything in hte last 15? years will have a 4 prong outlet
[14:05:50] <Jymmm> Ok, so if neutral and ground are tied together, what makes them different?
[14:06:25] <Jymmm> brb, coffee....
[14:06:55] <elmo40> nothing.
[14:07:02] <elmo40> Neutral and Ground are the same thing
[14:07:18] <elmo40> just another wire for added safety
[14:07:40] <atmega> they are almost the same thing :)
[14:09:11] <elmo40> in N. America we use grounded recepticals, this only means there are 2 ground wires for added shock safety. The 3-prongs consist of Neutral, Ground, Hot. At the panel the Ground and Neutral are both connected to the main bar that is literally embedded into the ground ;)
[14:09:35] <elmo40> atmega: at your main panel you will see they are both connected to the same place.
[14:09:40] <atmega> I know.
[14:09:41] <elmo40> the Ground
[14:10:03] <atmega> and it is still bad practice and against NEC to treat them the same.
[14:11:15] <elmo40> what do you mean? they ARE the same.
[14:12:20] <elmo40> ahh, he was getting shocked because the CASE wasn't connected to the ground
[14:12:53] <elmo40> but that would also mean there is an electrical short into the case. something he needs to locate before he just connects the ground.
[14:12:56] <atmega> right, so you would just go ahead and hook neutral up to the case
[14:13:07] <elmo40> same thing...
[14:13:16] <elmo40> but ya, it is a separate wire :P
[14:13:28] <atmega> but, it's the same... why bother running that pesky extra wire
[14:13:59] <atmega> just hook up your 110vac outlet with one black wire and one bar or white wire connected to both ground and neutral and be done
[14:14:04] <elmo40> it comes with your typical 14-2 strand, so why not.
[14:14:53] <Jymmm> No, the outlets in the wall were missing GROUND.
[14:15:13] <atmega> that's not the point of my statement.
[14:15:30] <atmega> you would wire up an outlet with only 2 wires since ground and neutral are exactly the same.
[14:16:14] <Jymmm> But if they were the same then I shouldn't have gotten shocked by the PC as it's connected to neutral, no?
[14:16:32] <atmega> this is a mental exercise, not reality based.
[14:16:44] <elmo40> as mentioned earlier... it is for ADDED shock safety. Hooking the case up to Neutral or Ground will do the same but if the Neutral gets cut it would no longer be grounded. Call it redundancy ;) I am not advocating to only use one wire... just agreeing/arguing to the fact that they lead to the same Ground.
[14:17:00] <Jymmm> and I heard that "tapping" into 220 to get 110 like that is illegal
[14:17:21] <elmo40> that is what the main panel does!
[14:17:22] <atmega> no argument there, and yet you wouldn't do it because even though they are the same, they aren't :)
[14:17:34] <elmo40> it taps the 220 to give you 2 x 110 lines
[14:17:47] <atmega> if you ran the 110 and 220 at the same time, you would have an unbalanced circuit
[14:17:51] <Jymmm> elmo40: In the panel, I understnad.
[14:17:54] <elmo40> but to get 110 you need a Neutral, which is Ground >_<
[14:18:20] <atmega> and the dual 220 breaker might not trip properly if only one leg was overloaded
[14:19:12] <Jymmm> Yeah, I dont want to do anything that would jeopardize fire insurance
[14:19:27] <Jymmm> (just in case)
[14:19:57] <elmo40> Jymmm: the main question you should have is 'why are the cases leaking electricity?' NOT 'they were not grounded... I should connect a wire'
[14:20:48] <Jymmm> elmo40: FIIK, it's a switching PS, but it wasn't isolated to one specific PC either, multiple PC's were doing it.
[14:20:51] <cradek> for an insurance company, how it is wired is probably less important than who wired it and whether it was inspected
[14:21:13] <elmo40> so true
[14:21:18] <elmo40> it is a blame game
[14:21:29] <Jymmm> cradek: Probably, but "Tapping" 220 for 110 is a big no-no as I understand it.
[14:23:15] <Jymmm> So, something liek this?
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/2054940311.html
[14:23:20] <elmo40> unless you use a pony-panel!
[14:23:21] <Jymmm> but a 25ft version
[14:23:42] <Jymmm> pony panel?
[14:23:57] <elmo40> 3-wire twist lock is just a 110V plug
[14:23:58] <jthornton> a small panel in your garage
[14:24:20] <Jymmm> ah
[14:24:21] <jthornton> feed it with the dryer circuit branch off from there
[14:24:32] <elmo40> Jymmm: you can run 220 into your garage and use another panel to split it there.
[14:24:51] <jthornton> he has 220 in there now
[14:24:56] <Jymmm> elmo40: I have 220 dryer in the garage already
[14:24:59] <Jymmm> 3 prong
[14:25:11] <elmo40> you dry your cloths in the garage? O_o
[14:25:19] <jthornton> Jymmm: take the cover off your panel and take a picture of it
[14:25:33] <Jymmm> elmo40: No on the roof so the birds can poop on it.
[14:25:46] <Jymmm> jthornton: k
[14:25:48] <elmo40> it is the environmentally friendlier way...
[14:25:57] <elmo40> a risk I take ;)
[14:26:10] <Jymmm> * Jymmm tosses a beer can on elmo40's neck.
[14:26:14] <elmo40> besides, if you let it bake in the sun it flecks off easily :P
[14:32:31] <elmo40> silly world. We can not even agree on a common electrical supply standard.
[14:32:31] <elmo40> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Weltkarte_der_Netzspannungen_und_Netzfrequenzen.svg
[14:33:43] <elmo40> very odd. looks like South Corea uses 60Hz while the rest of Asia is 50Hz
[14:33:59] <elmo40> I wonder who influenced that...
[14:42:13] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/2058781247.html
[14:48:05] <elmo40> sorry, don't have $30k to waste on an old machine like that Who knows how many hours are on that pump! 'New in 1996' means nothing to me.
[14:56:28] <i_tarzan> old saw cutting must be used
[16:01:03] <atmega> japan has 50hz on one side, 60hz on the other
[16:38:32] <jthornton> I think Jymmm got shocked
[16:38:52] <Jymmm> lol
[16:39:25] <Jymmm> I've been looking for 10/3 extension cords
[16:39:48] <atmega> pricey
[16:39:54] <atmega> how long?
[16:39:58] <Jymmm> 25'
[16:40:22] <Jymmm> I found a RV 10/3 25' for $40, but it's rated at 110VAC
[16:40:43] <jthornton> are you sure you DC has a plug on it?
[16:41:09] <atmega> get a 50' roll of 10/3 romex and a couple of boxes
[16:42:01] <Jymmm> not yet, ETA is 11/19
[16:42:31] <jthornton> lol 8amps at 240v you only need #14 wire
[16:43:03] <Jymmm> I do have some HD 25' 12/3 extenion cords
[16:43:17] <Jymmm> rated at 110@15A
[16:43:33] <Jymmm> HD == Heavy Duty
[16:43:37] <atmega> aren't they really 12/2 + ground?
[16:43:52] <Jymmm> 12ga, 3 conductor
[16:45:03] <jthornton> #12 will carry 18amps, 240v 100'
[16:48:49] <atmega> what kind of dust are you collecting
[16:49:11] <jthornton> most cords have three insulated conductors and electricity don't care what color they are
[16:49:52] <jthornton> except for flat type of cords which usually have a bare ground in the center only covered by the outer jacket
[16:50:36] <atmega> with the right Sharpie(tm) they can be any color
[16:51:02] <elmo40> or no colour!
[16:51:07] <elmo40> use tape ;)
[16:51:08] <atmega> I've seen lots that had smaller or odd grounds
[16:51:10] <elmo40> or a label maker
[16:51:35] <Jymmm> jthornton: I thought the voltage rating was based upon insulators primarily?
[16:51:59] <Jymmm> (and arcing)
[16:52:50] <Jymmm> atmega: none.
[16:53:14] <elmo40> thicker insulation usually means higher voltage rating.
[16:53:33] <JT-Hardinge> yep
[16:54:29] <Jymmm> As I doubt that the connectors on these cords are rated for 220, I do have a orange 12/3 25' I'd be willing to replace the ends on.
[16:54:54] <elmo40> I helped a friend wire his garage. he is an industrial electrician. he nabbed a few rolls from work...err... they fell off the truck, anyways :P They were 600V rated wire. Holy crap was the insulation THICK!.
[16:55:03] <JT-Hardinge> the plugs will be the wrong shape for sure
[16:55:20] <Jymmm> jthornton: Well, as opposed to using adapters that is
[16:55:47] <JT-Hardinge> I don't think you can find a 120 to 240 gender changer for an extension cord
[16:56:01] <Jymmm> I can make one though.
[16:56:26] <Jymmm> even plain old ext cords are not cheap these days (to replace)
[16:56:42] <JT-Hardinge> not a good idea...
[16:56:52] <Jymmm> what isn't?
[16:58:06] <atmega> $25 for 25ft of 12-3 from home depot
[16:58:47] <atmega> $16 for 12-2
[16:59:30] <Jymmm> look at the price for replacement plug outfuckingragious!
[17:09:37] <KimK> Good morning Jymmm, JT, and all. Sorry I wasn't here earlier, did you settle the ground/neutral business, maybe I can help? And JT, what is the problem with your spindle or spindle drive?
[17:13:12] <JT-Hardinge> hi KimK the power supply caps are old I think and I can't go from 0-6000 in one step
[17:13:29] <JT-Hardinge> so when I need over 2k rpm I just step it up by 200's
[17:13:48] <JT-Hardinge> the drive is 17 years old
[17:14:03] <KimK> How fast does it go from 0 to 2000?
[17:14:22] <KimK> And what kind of motor is it?
[17:15:01] <JT-Hardinge> it's a servo
[17:15:16] <JT-Hardinge> it ramps up right fast
[17:16:07] <JT-Hardinge> Simodrive 611 analog drive
[17:16:18] <KimK> If there's a ramp speed adj, you might want to try slowing it down a little.
[17:16:39] <JT-Hardinge> none of the pots say ramp
[17:16:44] <KimK> accel?
[17:17:02] <KimK> acc/dec?
[17:19:03] <JT-Hardinge> Drift, Kp, Tn, n, Drift, T, Kp, Tn, Ad
[17:20:27] <JT-Hardinge> I moved Kp a bit and it helped a little
[17:22:54] <JT-Hardinge> one person said that when repair shops get old drives in they replace the caps and see if anything else is borked
[17:24:55] <atmega> siemens drive?
[17:26:12] <JT-Hardinge> yes
[17:29:18] <atmega> we have or had a bunch of those
[17:30:18] <JT-Hardinge> the axis drives work fine and the spindle works but with the one handicap
[17:47:56] <KimK> JT-Hardinge: I found a 611A manual online, it has some info on the pots
[17:49:02] <KimK> http://www.sheerservice.com.br/media/611A_IA.PDF
[17:49:22] <JT-Hardinge> any of it make sense
[17:52:27] <KimK> looking now
[17:56:18] <JT-Hardinge> it's a little different than the one I found
[17:58:34] <JT-Hardinge> brb
[18:06:40] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:06:42] <logger_2> * logger_2 is logging
[18:06:42] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:07:53] <KimK> Some Q's for you: What is the fault number shown when it dies? Does the "C" mode (orientation for tool change) seem to work OK?
[18:07:53] <KimK> Some Q's for you: What is the fault number shown when it dies? Does the "C" mode (orientation for tool change) seem to work OK?
[18:10:31] <born2late> hi
[18:10:31] <born2late> hi
[18:11:05] <jthornton> yes, orientation works fine the fault code in the control is so generic it covers everything and the drive just says that it is not enabled
[18:11:05] <jthornton> yes, orientation works fine the fault code in the control is so generic it covers everything and the drive just says that it is not enabled
[18:11:33] <born2late> is there knoledge to use emc over usb ?
[18:11:33] <born2late> is there knoledge to use emc over usb ?
[18:12:10] <jthornton> no
[18:12:10] <jthornton> no
[18:12:17] <born2late> cos i have a microcontroller with pwm to control stepper motors with usb, and i wonder how to feed that with emc
[18:12:17] <born2late> cos i have a microcontroller with pwm to control stepper motors with usb, and i wonder how to feed that with emc
[18:12:48] <jthornton> they have a thread on the forum discussing this very topic
[18:12:48] <jthornton> they have a thread on the forum discussing this very topic
[18:13:37] <logger_emc> * logger_emc is logging
[18:13:37] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:13:38] <SWPLinux> argh. got the wrong one
[18:13:38] <SWPLinux> argh. got the wrong one
[18:13:43] <SWPLinux> or did I?
[18:13:43] <SWPLinux> or did I?
[18:13:48] <jthornton> dang if I know
[18:13:50] <born2late> thank you jthornton
[18:13:52] <jthornton> dang if I know
[18:13:54] <born2late> thank you jthornton
[18:14:41] <jthornton> all I know is I left my floppy in the shop so it is another 2 trips in the rain... I might melt or float away not sure which
[18:14:41] <jthornton> all I know is I left my floppy in the shop so it is another 2 trips in the rain... I might melt or float away not sure which
[18:14:46] <KimK> JT, does this look like your parameter board, or is this from a different machine?
http://imagebin.ca/view/FMoSutQ.html
[18:14:46] <KimK> JT, does this look like your parameter board, or is this from a different machine?
http://imagebin.ca/view/FMoSutQ.html
[18:15:52] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:15:53] <logger_1> * logger_1 is logging
[18:15:53] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:15:54] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:15:54] <logger_2> * logger_2 is logging
[18:15:54] <logger_2> * logger_2 is logging
[18:18:13] <KimK> OK, I'll stay with this manual until it proves unreliable
[18:18:13] <KimK> OK, I'll stay with this manual until it proves unreliable
[18:18:13] <KimK> OK, I'll stay with this manual until it proves unreliable
[18:18:14] <psha> more! more bots! i need more bots! :)
[18:18:15] <psha> more! more bots! i need more bots! :)
[18:18:15] <psha> more! more bots! i need more bots! :)
[18:18:27] <atmega> atmega is now known as logger_3
[18:18:27] <atmega> atmega is now known as logger_3
[18:18:27] <atmega> atmega is now known as logger_3
[18:18:30] <logger_3> * logger_3 is logging
[18:18:31] <logger_3> * logger_3 is logging
[18:18:31] <logger_3> * logger_3 is logging
[18:18:34] <psha> psha is now known as logger_4
[18:18:34] <psha> psha is now known as logger_4
[18:18:34] <psha> psha is now known as logger_4
[18:18:36] <logger_4> * logger_4 is logging
[18:18:36] <logger_4> * logger_4 is logging
[18:18:36] <logger_4> * logger_4 is logging
[18:19:10] <logger_1> * logger_1 is logging
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[18:19:16] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:19:16] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:19:19] <jthornton> the manual I found has 399 pages but I forget where I found it
[18:19:19] <jthornton> the manual I found has 399 pages but I forget where I found it
[18:19:19] <jthornton> the manual I found has 399 pages but I forget where I found it
[18:20:34] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:20:34] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:20:35] <logger_1> * logger_1 is logging
[18:20:35] <logger_3> * logger_3 is logging
[18:20:35] <logger_1> * logger_1 is logging
[18:20:35] <logger_3> * logger_3 is logging
[18:20:35] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:23:49] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:25:52] <logger_4> logger_4 is now known as psha
[18:27:59] <KimK> You know what you should do? You should send all the model, serial, etc., numbers to your local Siemens rep and have him fish out the *exact* manual(s) for your drive. That would be a good place to start.
[18:29:18] <JT-Hardinge> let me see what I can find out about a local rep
[18:35:08] <KimK> And if he says, "That drive is no longer supported", then you say, "So I assume I can expect the same service in the future if I were foolish enough to buy a new replacement drive from you?" and see what he does.
[18:35:30] <SWPLinux> heh
[18:36:04] <JT-Hardinge> exactly!
[18:44:30] <grommit> psha, I updated to the latest release today. All seems fine.
[18:47:22] <psha> grommit: great
[18:47:50] <psha> is 640x480 format selected by default?
[18:48:48] <grommit> Yes
[18:49:09] <grommit> YUV (not mjpeg)
[18:49:59] <psha> there is no difference
[18:50:16] <grommit> oh
[18:50:21] <psha> with mjpeg you may get higher absolute resolution on slow usb links but that's all
[18:51:13] <psha> may you make a screenshot for wiki?
[18:51:14] <grommit> btw, someone here suggested it would be nice if you could xor the color with the background so that the lines and text would be opposite and more easily seen. Can you get on that? ;)
[18:52:39] <grommit> http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/backlash.png also
http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/backlash-nocntl.png shows it without controls showing.
[18:59:09] <KimK> Would it be possible to get concentric circles on the crosshairs? Or just one circle of adjustable size? Or at least equally spaced tick-marks? This would make it easier to find the center of an existing hole.
[18:59:29] <psha> KimK: possible :)
[18:59:37] <skunkworks> and we need edge detection! ;)
[19:01:44] <KimK> Hi Sam. What would you have, detect along the crosshair lines? Tell me more about what you have in mind here.
[19:02:19] <KimK> (I'll be in and out)
[19:04:40] <psha> grommit: it's possible to xor crosshair
[19:04:54] <grommit> that would be quite cool!
[19:05:36] <grommit> did you see image links above?
[19:06:16] <psha> yes, nice
[19:06:30] <psha> but xor works good only for white color
[19:07:59] <skunkworks> KimK: I really don't know what would be good.
[19:08:09] <psha> i'll add xor checkbox and rebuild
[19:08:25] <psha> KimK: what kind of marks/circles you need?
[19:08:58] <Jymmm> XXOO
[19:09:07] <psha> grommit: btw i've fixed colors issue
[19:12:37] <grommit> is there a new release?
[19:13:08] <psha> i'm adding control for xor
[19:13:16] <psha> it will be ready in ~15m
[19:13:29] <grommit> ok, got to run an errand, back in a bit.
[19:28:06] <KimK> psha: Well, I could use about anything, but I was thinking about finding the center of an existing hole for digitizing it. So anything to help find a center. I suppose tick-marks would be the easiest? A live-adjustable circle would be the coolest. A series of fixed circles (maybe switchable on-off?) Would be in the middle. Unless Sam has an edge-detection scheme that is a better idea?
[19:28:56] <KimK> s/Would be in the middle/Would be the middle preference/
[19:29:05] <alex_joni> there's a subroutine for probing
[19:29:35] <alex_joni> maybe it can be adjusted to work with an edge detection on the video feed?
[19:29:41] <KimK> Yeah, still haven't built a probe. Unless the probing routine could be used with Sam's edge detector?
[19:30:03] <KimK> Ha, we're on the same path, good!
[19:30:25] <psha> KimK: i'll take a look into glut for circles (plain opengl has no circles)
[19:31:26] <KimK> psha: OK, and thanks for doing this work, this is really good stuff.
[19:32:57] <psha> KimK: that's interesting :) far more intersting that online poker :)
[19:33:31] <KimK> Oh, and xor should work fine for light-dark and dark-light situations, the problem comes when its sort-of-grey to sort-of-grey. What else could we do in that situation?
[19:33:56] <KimK> light-dark dashed line?
[19:34:05] <KimK> (on grey)
[19:34:24] <psha> disable xor :)
[19:34:27] <psha> it's optinal
[19:37:43] <KimK> Then it would be, what, the "normal" color? That sounds OK. So maybe XOR only if "too-alike" to the "normal" color, otherwise leave it alone? Sounds good.
[19:38:29] <psha> KimK: there is button for that in interface :)
[19:38:41] <psha> don't like xor - select color you like
[19:39:06] <psha> http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/colorpick.png
[19:41:53] <psha> KimK: it's only possible to approximate circle with lines...
[19:42:29] <psha> i'll take a cup of tea and then add it
[19:55:38] <psha> grommit: XOR version landed
[19:55:47] <psha> both halio and crosshair
[19:56:32] <atmega> I'd love to try out the cam stuff, but the 10.04 upgrade completely hosed my box
[19:57:08] <atmega> psha: your suggestion to boot the livecd first would have been great had I litened.
[19:57:15] <psha> :)
[19:57:15] <atmega> err... listened.
[20:12:16] <psha> atmega: save your home dir and reinstall it from livecd
[20:12:31] <psha> i suspect you have already broken everything :)
[20:23:00] <grommit> psha, like the xor!
[20:23:20] <atmega> you'll have to be louder than that.
[20:23:39] <grommit> LIKE THE XOR!
[20:25:22] <skunkworks> grommit: one last screen shot?
[20:31:35] <grommit> http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/xor-cntl.png and
http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/xor-nocntl.png (for no controls). Above ruler is caliper. I found out my freebie from IMTS laser etched ruler is not quite accurate. Can you believe it?
[20:33:58] <Jymmm> huh?
[21:20:25] <JT-Hardinge> grommit: I hope your taking good notes that is cool
[21:38:52] <psha> KimK: here?
[21:54:44] <psha> :(
[22:01:52] <JT-Hardinge> http://imagebin.ca/view/bl1OoDS.html
[22:07:47] <skunkworks> JT-Hardinge: neat?
[22:10:36] <JT-Hardinge> the cycle timer?
[22:11:10] <skunkworks> all of it. (didn't know if you where having a problem or not)
[22:11:29] <JT-Hardinge> no, just showing how the cycle timer comp worked
[22:11:44] <JT-Hardinge> I just need to push it
[22:11:56] <JT-Hardinge> been using it for a couple of months now
[22:16:23] <psha> KimK: i've built new version with circles
[22:18:07] <skunkworks> I have to work on my pyvpc - all I have right now is a rpm meter.
[22:23:02] <JT-Hardinge> it can be a bit of a pain to get a layout that is not too jumbled up and is lined up
[22:23:18] <skunkworks> heh - I bet.
[22:23:33] <skunkworks> how does your coolant checkbox work?
[22:23:58] <skunkworks> is it just hooked into an 'OR'
[22:24:28] <JT-Hardinge> yea
[22:25:49] <JT-Hardinge> actually I've disconnected the one on the right as Axis provides one on the left lol
[22:26:21] <skunkworks> can you click it while in auto - running a program?
[22:26:36] <JT-Hardinge> I don't know
[22:27:06] <skunkworks> I bet you cannot. so your extra checkbox is probably a good thing ;)
[22:28:16] <micges> you can't, all axis controls are grayed while program running
[22:29:45] <JT-Hardinge> I've never had the need to turn it on or off while a program is running
[22:32:47] <grommit> psha, you there?
[22:33:44] <psha> yes
[22:34:02] <grommit> I was curious how xor works.
[22:34:17] <psha> RGB xoring
[22:34:29] <psha> so better results are with white color
[22:34:59] <grommit> are you xor'ing the color selection itself?
[22:35:24] <andypugh> Eeeh! I remember when 3-bit colour seemed like a luxury.
[22:35:59] <psha> grommit: i'm asking gl to do it for me :)
[22:36:23] <grommit> but I mean, what is it xoring against?
[22:36:23] <psha> i suppose it takes underlaying color and replaces it with (b ^ t)
[22:36:29] <grommit> ah
[22:36:41] <psha> where b is bottom (video image), t is top (crosshair, label)
[22:37:01] <grommit> does it happen every time i press the button or just once at startup or the first time?
[22:37:12] <grommit> the reason i ask is that it doesn;t seem to change
[22:39:22] <psha> it's xoring on every frame
[22:40:22] <andypugh> Forgive me for not looking to see, but is the crosshair position calibratable?
[22:40:44] <psha> andypugh: not yet :) feature requests are open :)
[22:40:48] <grommit> ok, on closer inspection you are right. I can see it changing as I move around.
[22:41:10] <psha> grommit: take a look on last version
[22:41:21] <psha> i've tried to minimized harm introduced by many new controls
[22:41:23] <andypugh> I think that a calibratable crosshair position would mean that the camera alignment was non-critical. You just find the pixel which doesn't move as you rotate the spindle, and that is your centre of rotation.
[22:41:26] <psha> so added tabs
[22:41:45] <grommit> a new version?
[22:41:46] <JT-Hardinge> is the camera in the spindle?
[22:41:52] <psha> grommit: 17
[22:42:05] <andypugh> Well, if I have a camera, it will have a MT30 mount...
[22:42:10] <andypugh> (BT30 I mean)
[22:42:14] <grommit> The camera, in my case, is sort of in the spindle
[22:42:23] <JT-Hardinge> that is what I have too BT30
[22:42:43] <grommit> It is currently just sticky taped to a toolholder
[22:42:57] <grommit> But plans are to figure out a mount
[22:43:35] <JT-Hardinge> is it just a web cam or something like that?
[22:44:08] <grommit> It is an Xbox-live camera that has been removed from its housing and put in another homemade one
[22:44:54] <andypugh> I have one of these, which looks easy to mount
[22:44:55] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-0-M-HD-USB-Mini-Webcam-Video-Camera-PC-Mac-Linux-/170536942784?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_Webcams&hash=item27b4cb3cc0#ht_4937wt_907
[22:45:06] <grommit> oooooooooo :-)
[22:45:11] <grommit> tabs!
[22:45:37] <grommit> ah, video controls!
[22:46:03] <grommit> what is the convert-to_rgb8 tab for?
[22:46:09] <psha> grommit: i've just borrowed widgets from camview
[22:46:20] <psha> theese tabs are autocreated for all units in chain
[22:47:14] <grommit> problem with video controls is that it is best to see video while adjusting controls. I can either see controls, or see video, but not both. Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining :-)
[22:47:35] <andypugh> What is the easiest way to see if that camera is likely to work?
[22:47:54] <grommit> plug it in and try it? :-)
[22:48:21] <grommit> oh...you mean before your buy! ;-)
[22:48:37] <JT-Hardinge> I had some that didn't work with 8.04 when I was trying to set up a web cam
[22:49:00] <psha> grommit: all controls are minimized first so they eat not much place
[22:49:02] <psha> i hope :)
[22:49:03] <grommit> i like the form factor of that one you list above. nicely shaped for a toolholder!
[22:49:13] <grommit> yeah that works
[22:49:15] <psha> yes, when you expand input_v4l it will eat all place :)
[22:49:23] <andypugh> No, I have plugged it in. I just have no idea what software will wrk with it.
[22:49:47] <psha> andypugh: try something like qv4l2
[22:49:51] <psha> or mplayer :)
[22:49:54] <psha> for basic test
[22:50:08] <psha> qv4l2 is all-eating viewer
[22:50:30] <grommit> yes, I originally used Cheese. it seems to be simple and works with several cameras around here
[22:50:39] <psha> if it wont work - hope that something else will work is subtle :)
[22:50:52] <psha> since qv4l2 is maintained by libv4l team :)
[22:51:09] <andypugh> Which is smallest or most relevant to emc2? The CNC PC only has an 8GB drive
[22:51:27] <psha> do you have qt apps installed?
[22:51:38] <psha> if not - don't try qv4l2
[22:51:42] <psha> it depends on qt
[22:52:09] <andypugh> No, no QT as far as I know. It's a LiveCD install.
[22:52:29] <psha> wait a bit, i'll load livecd and ask it to install various viewers
[22:52:39] <micges> xawtv
[22:53:01] <psha> btw 8gb is lot of space )
[22:53:31] <psha> luvcview seem to have least deps
[22:53:35] <psha> guvcview is a bit better
[22:54:27] <andypugh> OK, let me try that last one.
[22:54:50] <psha> luvcview:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-0-M-HD-USB-Mini-Webcam-Video-Camera-PC-Mac-Linux-/170536942784?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_Webcams&hash=item27b4cb3cc0#ht_4937wt_907
[22:54:54] <psha> oops :)
[22:54:56] <psha> thats your link
[22:55:07] <psha> luvcview: 168kb will be used
[22:55:21] <psha> xawtv: 2780kb will be used
[22:55:40] <psha> guvcview: 12.9Mb will be used (WTF?!)
[22:56:23] <andypugh> guvcview works a charm
[22:56:41] <andypugh> I thought Linux was meant to be hard!
[22:57:06] <grommit> bloat ware
[22:57:16] <psha> it depends on avcodecs :)
[22:57:35] <psha> cheese: 8mb :)
[22:58:01] <grommit> I wasn't worried about space, I have 80G free or something
[22:58:25] <grommit> tomorrow I will make some more images. gotta go for now...
[22:58:30] <psha> bb
[22:58:42] <psha> i'll check how much space is needed for camview-emc and go too
[22:58:54] <psha> camview-emc: 819kb will be used
[22:58:57] <psha> not bad :)
[23:00:37] <andypugh> luvcview works well too.
[23:02:42] <psha> they are all using same v4l interface but some have extra conversions
[23:02:49] <psha> is it uvcvideo cam?
[23:05:55] <JT-Hardinge> a new chap from Romania just joined the forum
[23:05:59] <andypugh> luvcview won't embed with the mplayer arguments (well, there's a surprise) but it looks like video in EMC2 is pretty much trivial :-)
[23:07:17] <psha> andypugh: nothing hard :)
[23:07:32] <andypugh> I can generally make things hard.
[23:07:40] <JT-Hardinge> LOL
[23:07:49] <psha> you may check camview-emc for crosshair&bells&wistles :)
[23:10:44] <andypugh> Where might one get camview-emc from?
[23:11:20] <psha> it's packaged in
http://psha.org.ru/debian/
[23:11:23] <psha> lucid packages
[23:12:06] <psha> there is README with key url and sources.list line
[23:12:26] <andypugh> Last time I visited a russian web page I had to wipe the HD and reinstall windows.
[23:12:51] <psha> this time you'll need to wipe hd and reinstall linux :-P
[23:13:06] <andypugh> It was too embarassing having lesbian porn pop-ups appear when I was showing my solid models to my boss....
[23:15:18] <drafter_KI6QOH> haha my boss wouldn't mind the lesbian porn pop-ups...
[23:25:55] <psha> andypugh: succeded?
[23:26:06] <psha> any pop-up porn?
[23:26:16] <andypugh> Not yet. I am disappointed.
[23:26:43] <andypugh> What's the magic to embed it in a tab?
[23:27:36] <psha> -w {XID}
[23:27:41] <andypugh> Ah, I guess I need to do that .axisrc thing?
[23:27:45] <psha> yes
[23:27:49] <psha> or recent axis
[23:28:22] <psha> axisrc may be found on the wiki
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Axis_Embed_Video
[23:30:16] <andypugh> Ah, how recent?
[23:30:36] <andypugh> I am running master..
[23:30:42] <psha> then it's there
[23:30:56] <psha> just add EMBED_TAB_NAME/EMBED_TAB_COMMAND into .ini file
[23:32:40] <andypugh> no module named Xlib ?
[23:34:29] <psha> oops
[23:34:36] <psha> python-xlib
[23:34:48] <psha> adding to deps so in next version it will be autoinstalled
[23:35:51] <psha> it's used for reparenting
[23:36:56] <andypugh> And now it all works. Brilliant
[23:37:19] <psha> nice :)
[23:37:26] <psha> and now it's time for a sleep
[23:37:28] <psha> bb
