#emc | Logs for 2010-11-13

[00:03:54] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[03:34:48] <Dave911_> Dave911_ is now known as Dave911
[13:04:44] <boelkmoeller3> uuuha
[14:06:09] <boelkmoeller3> there are no rpms for emc?!
[14:27:59] <archivist> simpler to use the prepared cd
[14:32:04] <jthornton> afternoon archivist
[14:32:19] <jthornton> rpms?
[14:32:22] <archivist> * archivist looks at clock to check
[14:32:34] <jthornton> should be close for you
[14:32:51] <jthornton> 8:32 AM here
[14:32:52] <archivist> prolly morning for you :)
[14:33:01] <jthornton> yep
[14:34:12] <archivist> I just played with some motors I stripped out of a video, a large 1" Ampex two servo motors :)
[14:34:24] <jthornton> cool
[14:34:42] <jthornton> opening day of deer season here for firearms
[14:35:00] <jthornton> had to dress the dog up in an orange shirt to take her for a walk
[14:35:21] <archivist> why ...dog is fair game :)
[14:35:37] <jthornton> mine is not the owner shoots back
[14:36:22] <archivist> boelkmoeller3, reason is the rtai kernel etc which is needed
[15:05:21] <jthornton> * jthornton wanders off to try and get the internet working in the shop today
[15:05:28] <pfred1> * pfred1 just got in from doing some competitive yard saling
[15:06:00] <Jymmm> competitive???
[15:06:11] <pfred1> Jymmm around here it sure is
[15:06:22] <Jymmm> your selling your neighbors fence or something?
[15:06:26] <pfred1> I saw some kid pick up a 2 armed wheel puller
[15:06:37] <pfred1> that I'd have nailed if I got to it first
[15:06:56] <pfred1> I did manage to get 5 foot of link belt for 50 cents though!
[15:07:06] <pfred1> red
[15:07:19] <Jymmm> oh you mean BUYING, not selling
[15:07:23] <pfred1> yes
[15:07:38] <Jymmm> you said SELLING
[15:07:52] <pfred1> I got a couple other little knick knacks and doodads as well nothing too exciting today though
[15:08:10] <Jymmm> so your packratting =)
[15:08:23] <pfred1> I said saling which is a present tenst word of sale I made up
[15:08:38] <pfred1> you know as opposed to the yacht style sailing
[15:09:07] <Jymmm> did any of this involve a boat or body of water?
[15:09:14] <pfred1> I'd have probably been better off if I'd gone sailing today
[15:09:37] <pfred1> man i went down the beach yesterday the waves were wild!
[15:09:46] <Jymmm> where?
[15:09:51] <pfred1> we have a storm off the coast here it seems to be kicking up quite a squal
[15:09:58] <pfred1> I went to Rehoboth
[15:10:10] <pfred1> that is the beach by me
[15:10:26] <pfred1> not to say there aren't others but it is THE beach
[15:10:29] <Jymmm> planet/continent/country/state?
[15:10:52] <pfred1> oh Rehoboth beach Delaware
[15:10:57] <Jymmm> ah
[15:10:59] <pfred1> I didn't know there were any others
[15:11:16] <Jymmm> its a big planet
[15:11:17] <pfred1> it makes the top 10 all the time
[15:11:35] <pfred1> however beaches are ranked
[15:12:09] <pfred1> it is pretty much world famous
[15:12:17] <Jymmm> pretentiousness one to ten =)
[15:12:30] <pfred1> yes I've been to nicer beaches
[15:12:39] <pfred1> as far as just beaches go
[15:13:15] <pfred1> but rehoboth has associated attractions like a boardwalk
[15:13:52] <pfred1> which we just redid BTW
[15:14:36] <pfred1> I bought a halogen work lamp for a buddy of mine that seems to be doing more welding on his truck lately
[15:14:57] <pfred1> I paid $2 for it I'll tell him I bought it for a dollar I don't want him to think he owes me anything for it
[15:15:24] <Jymmm> heh
[15:15:41] <pfred1> I'll be going to see him on Tuesday
[15:16:20] <pfred1> which is my birthday BTW
[15:16:41] <pfred1> 46 but I swear I don't look a day over 50
[15:17:48] <pfred1> all that clean living you know?
[15:18:32] <Jymmm> lol
[15:18:46] <pfred1> beautiful I just plugged the lamp in the bulb is good in it and everything
[15:19:06] <pfred1> hate to give him something that'll just cost him more time and work
[15:19:47] <Jymmm> I gave up the halogen worklights that I had. too hot, dull yellow light
[15:20:10] <Jymmm> power hungry
[15:20:14] <pfred1> I don't use mine as much as i used to i used to use them a lot welding on vehicles
[15:20:32] <pfred1> two of them puppies shining on the weld bead and you can wear a #12 shade and still see
[15:20:52] <Jymmm> I'd rather use halogen fog lamps
[15:21:16] <Jymmm> they seem to be whiter
[15:22:49] <pfred1> I have an Optrel auto hood now so
[15:23:13] <pfred1> mad lighting welding is less of an issue for me
[15:23:33] <pfred1> that thing set me back like $450
[15:24:19] <Jymmm> I WAS going to get this, but just read the reviews... http://www.harborfreight.com/45-bulb-led-work-light-66308.html
[15:24:21] <Jymmm> bummer
[15:24:37] <pfred1> yes I've seen the LED work lights at b&D here
[15:24:49] <pfred1> I have a little LED flashlight thing is amazing
[15:25:08] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/clear-lens-halogen-lights-37349.html That's what I was talking about
[15:25:09] <pfred1> bright as all get out and it lasts forever on a charge too
[15:25:29] <Jymmm> You should see how many LED lights I have =)
[15:25:35] <pfred1> yes fog lights
[15:26:33] <pfred1> I wish I'd picked up more of these LED flashlights when I had the chance they were blowing them out for $5 a piece
[15:27:24] <pfred1> was part of their VPX line they discontinued
[15:27:35] <pfred1> so I bought just about the whole set
[15:28:50] <pfred1> though the reciprocating saw is a bit of a joke
[15:29:01] <pfred1> I still need a nice cordless one of those
[15:30:53] <Jymmm> I have a Cree 2xAA (bright lil bastard), 4D LED Maglite, 3D LED Maglight, 2xAA LED Maglight, Streamlight rechargable LED, Rechargable LED light stick that's mag mount, bunch of 3xAAA LED puck lights all around the house, 12v Rechargable 3Million Candlepower spot light, 12v rechargable 8Million CP spotlight, 3xAAA Multi-color LED flashlight, and variosu assorted other lights
[15:33:48] <Jymmm> pfred1: If you want a nice bright lil flashlight, get this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4452
[15:33:53] <pfred1> this is the one I have: http://tinyurl.com/2dnofxx
[15:34:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: I've ordered two of them so far. If the light begins to flicker, replace the abtteries.
[15:34:26] <pfred1> I got it for $5 flat at the outlet here no tax no shipping
[15:34:37] <Jymmm> Oh gawd, that's crap
[15:35:10] <Jymmm> I have one of those but it's hand cranked. Nice for ANY light, but no real power to it.
[15:35:16] <pfred1> they're full of crap I get way better than 5 hours run
[15:35:28] <Jymmm> the CREE I linked to you could drive by if you had to
[15:35:45] <pfred1> I've actually never seen the batter run down though I do charge it up every now and again just for laughs
[15:36:20] <Jymmm> Yeah, no power at all to them
[15:36:24] <pfred1> well when the guy came to do the cable install here he had this huge flashlight my flashlight was brighter
[15:36:49] <Jymmm> pfred1: Just get that one I linked to, it'll blind you
[15:37:20] <Jymmm> uses 2xAA OR 1x14500
[15:37:38] <Jymmm> and you can use 1xAA for less brightness if you want
[15:38:08] <pfred1> yes it looks pretty nice
[15:38:50] <Jymmm> Nothing fancy, just on/off. fits in pocket, doesn't require special batteries, waterproof
[15:38:58] <Jymmm> all aluminum body
[15:39:14] <pfred1> I wonder why they didn't just go with the jar design?
[15:39:20] <Jymmm> jar?
[15:39:36] <pfred1> yes where you screw the headi n like a jar top to turn it on then adjust the beam
[15:39:52] <pfred1> I have a tekna flashlight like that
[15:40:02] <Jymmm> Most LED are not adjustable from flood to throw
[15:40:04] <pfred1> and mini mag lites are like that as well
[15:40:13] <pfred1> yes LED has lens
[15:40:30] <pfred1> still it a simple easy and reliable method of on and off
[15:40:33] <Jymmm> Yes, mine LED MAglights do too, but not very effective
[15:41:02] <Jymmm> the switch is on the tailcap, press on, press off.
[15:41:06] <pfred1> I have an old plain mini mag can i just buy an LED bulb for it?
[15:41:21] <Jymmm> Not as bright as the cree
[15:41:27] <pfred1> like do the mag bulbs fit the older flashlights?
[15:41:41] <Jymmm> and you get the whole flaslight for the same cost as the MAd LED bulb
[15:41:46] <Jymmm> Mag
[15:41:53] <pfred1> they're that expensive?
[15:41:54] <awallin> has anyone tried this http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Ubuntu91 with the latest lucid 10.04LTS and the latest EMC2 ?
[15:42:11] <Jymmm> pfred1: Yeah, around $12-$15
[15:42:27] <pfred1> awallin I did a bare Debian build
[15:43:01] <pfred1> awallin I don't see what the point would be to doing an ubuntu build being as the install image is ubuntu
[15:43:19] <awallin> pfred1: I am upgrading to 10.04lts now, then installing latest emc2, then I could compare the latency-test with and without smp (if I get it working)
[15:43:28] <pfred1> ah
[15:43:41] <pfred1> you should smp and dedicate one CPU to the RT thread
[15:43:46] <Jymmm> awallin: Why, do you need the added cpu power?
[15:43:56] <pfred1> that i hear worls best
[15:44:02] <pfred1> works best even
[15:44:14] <awallin> I'm not sure I really need the super low latency :) but it sounds nice
[15:44:20] <awallin> this is an atom 330 machine
[15:44:21] <pfred1> if you dedicate one core to RT i hear it is faster
[15:44:47] <pfred1> atoms are doing what like 5000 ns now?
[15:45:13] <pfred1> worst case
[15:45:31] <awallin> 6-7k without smp and 5k with smp (from the latency-test wiki page)
[15:45:35] <awallin> maybe...
[15:45:40] <pfred1> right
[15:45:48] <pfred1> I don't think they do any better than that
[15:47:08] <awallin> I'd like to test these servos if I have time today: http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/wires.jpg
[15:47:41] <pfred1> awallin if you can do a bare build in a day and still have itme left over for something else more power to ya!
[15:48:05] <awallin> hmm :)
[15:48:43] <pfred1> personally in order ot work I need a bit more than just EMC2 on a system so that takes time to install as well
[15:49:18] <pfred1> the first bare build i did took me close to a week then a redo took 2 days
[15:50:07] <pfred1> where i had notes from the first build to work with
[15:50:44] <pfred1> the image smps out of the box doesn't it?
[15:51:22] <pfred1> though it might not split the tasks
[15:51:24] <awallin> the stock 10.04lts yes, but not the rtai-kernel
[15:51:43] <pfred1> then just rebuild the kernel
[15:51:54] <pfred1> coz you're going to have to do that on a bare build anyways
[15:52:20] <awallin> yes, I was looking for the simplest instructions for building an rtai-smp kernel for 10.04lts
[15:52:28] <awallin> hope those 9.10 instructions work...
[15:52:41] <pfred1> well I know a couple hot kernel building tricks now
[15:52:52] <pfred1> after having built like 20 kernels recently :)
[15:53:29] <pfred1> the first time around it took me like 6 shots just to get booted up and online
[15:53:54] <pfred1> the second time around i was online on the second build
[15:54:06] <awallin> there's also this: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Ubuntu10.04Notes
[15:55:09] <pfred1> I wouldn't use make xconfig
[15:55:15] <pfred1> it isn't very well developed
[15:55:38] <pfred1> make menuconfig is the premier config tool for the kernel
[15:55:59] <atmega_> xconfig worked fine last time I tried it
[15:56:23] <pfred1> I'm just telling you what the kernel documentaiton says
[15:56:38] <pfred1> you can go read it for yourself there
[15:56:53] <atmega_> otoh, that might have been 10 years ago
[15:57:53] <pfred1> that was about the last time I ran xconfig myself
[15:58:46] <pfred1> the way the kernel is menuconfig just works better the tree is like 4 levels deep in places
[15:59:09] <pfred1> maybe even deeper some places
[16:00:18] <pfred1> and the last time I ran xconfig it was 2 maybe 3 levels deep
[16:01:40] <pfred1> I guess it depends on just how much one wants to configure a custom kernel though me I like to try to configure it all
[16:03:54] <pfred1> atmega_ actually these dirs are pretty crappy and they'd break a debian based system like ubuntu is
[16:07:34] <atmega_> everyone should stick with slackware
[16:07:39] <atmega_> atmega_ is now known as atmega
[16:07:55] <pfred1> I did for a long time from slack 3 to 8
[16:08:16] <pfred1> but by 8 I was really shoveling you know what against the tide
[16:08:42] <pfred1> so early on in 8 I dropped it for redhat
[16:08:52] <atmega> yep... I did SLS, slackware, caldera, rh, ubuntu
[16:09:13] <pfred1> from RH i wwnt to suse then did a little ubuntu now debian
[16:09:16] <atmega> I avoided debian as much as possible due to debian users
[16:09:26] <Jymmm> debain and centis for server, ubuntu and knoppix for desktop
[16:09:31] <Jymmm> CentOS
[16:09:39] <pfred1> yeah their community blows but their distro is impeccible
[16:10:09] <pfred1> so if they want to be a bit snobbish about it it is OK
[16:10:49] <pfred1> my bare debs box for emc2 runs X with 34 MB of RAM
[16:10:56] <pfred1> which is unreal
[16:11:33] <pfred1> it doesn't really help any but it is still pretty nifty
[16:13:27] <psha> btw what's bad with debian users? other than we are snobbish :)
[16:14:13] <psha> i've found maintainers pretty adequate and has no problems with submitting fixes
[16:14:21] <pfred1> psha your typical Debian user is a heavy suffer of this malady: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
[16:14:33] <pfred1> psha or maybe they're just ass burgers it is hard to tell :)
[16:14:52] <atmega> debian users from the days of mudock/perens
[16:16:03] <atmega> pfred: I'd say that is more broadly all linux users, or *nix for that matter.
[16:16:43] <pfred1> atmega Debian users seem to be more extreme
[16:17:04] <pfred1> they are very sensitive
[16:17:06] <atmega> yeah, especially back in 'the day'
[16:17:53] <pfred1> atmega join #debian and ask them why they do not ship cdrecord and keep on trying to get an answer and see how long before they ban you :)
[16:18:41] <pfred1> that was the last faux pas I commited
[16:19:03] <pfred1> they got really touchy about the subject let me tell you!
[16:19:24] <psha> heh
[16:19:25] <pfred1> I lasted about 5 minutes
[16:19:40] <pfred1> and i was trying to be incredibly nice about it all
[16:19:47] <atmega> I'd assume it is due to non-freeness... when really it could be because Schilling is an ass
[16:19:54] <pfred1> yes
[16:20:05] <pfred1> I know the story I just wanted to hear their side of it is all
[16:20:18] <pfred1> what they did wiht it all is still questionable
[16:20:25] <psha> after reading debian vs ruby gem thread or b43 vs openbsd one i start thinking that adequate people are either rare or silent :)
[16:20:29] <pfred1> because they still use his code
[16:21:25] <pfred1> psha the way I look at it is wheels that work you never hear it is only the squeaky ones that you do
[16:22:32] <pfred1> but hey i could run any linux distro going today and I'm on debian across the board right now
[16:22:46] <pfred1> it is that good in my estimation
[16:23:08] <pfred1> all any distro is is the package manager and debian's is second to none
[16:23:17] <psha> pfred1: that's right... it's better to do job and leave flames to someone else :))
[16:23:57] <skinnypup> lenny all the way here too
[16:24:04] <pfred1> debians tools are so sophisticated the case could almost be made that they're too sophisticated but hey I'd rather have the power and not use it than need the power and not have it
[16:24:57] <KimK> pfred1: re the cdrtools vs cdrkit controversy, I use ubuntu for everything because of EMC2, but I had to install slackware to get a dual layer DVD burned correctly.
[16:25:06] <atmega> I cut a lid out of my 1" thick acrylic last night, it looks amazingly good
[16:25:28] <pfred1> KimK there is something going on with debs and cdrecord there is no doubt about it
[16:26:13] <psha> pfred1: for me debian also perfect with ability to create custom repos
[16:26:22] <pfred1> atmega did you sand polish it then heat the edges/
[16:26:25] <psha> i know that it's also possible with others but not that easy
[16:26:47] <skunkKandT> KimK: no - I couldn't make it. :(
[16:26:52] <pfred1> atmega do that then the edges will be like the surface
[16:27:06] <atmega> pfred: sand polish how?
[16:27:24] <pfred1> atmega with progressively finer grits of sand paper of course
[16:27:46] <pfred1> atmega buddy of mine made this door out of plastic and did it it was amazing
[16:27:55] <atmega> I chucked it in the lathe and took a few passes, itlooks good, but not clear
[16:28:12] <atmega> I have some 800 and 1000 grit sandpaper somewhere
[16:28:16] <pfred1> yes if you polish it as much as you can then hit it very carefully with a torch you can get glass surface
[16:28:35] <pfred1> but you can also burn bubbles in it too
[16:28:47] <pfred1> it is extremely hard to do but it is doable
[16:29:11] <atmega> it ended up a little undersize after turning, I'll probably resize it and make a new one tonight
[16:29:11] <pfred1> and when you do it it is nothing short of how did you do that?
[16:29:26] <pfred1> well try to polish burn the old one just to check it out
[16:29:47] <atmega> it's got a pocket for a switch and a hole for a cable gland.
[16:29:54] <pfred1> because you can do it and make it look cast
[16:30:36] <pfred1> like when you look through it you don't see the cut surfaces like it is all crystal hard to explain
[16:31:01] <pfred1> no tool marks at all
[16:31:09] <pfred1> just plastic smooth
[16:31:16] <pfred1> and transparent
[16:31:31] <KimK> Slackware, yikes! I had heard about it but never tried it. Now that I have, I believe that Slackware is for people that think that if you need fire, you should begin by rubbing two sticks together. But it's about the only major distro left that has cdrtools as standard. 99% have gone to cdrkit for the GPL. And in time, that should work out better.
[16:31:52] <pfred1> KimK that'd be Gentoo or LFS
[16:32:25] <KimK> Ha, yes, "waiting for emerge", lol
[16:32:31] <pfred1> supposedly slack has somewhat better package management tools since i ran it it is still pretty primitive though
[16:32:45] <KimK> I'll try Gentoo sometime too though.
[16:33:18] <pfred1> for a daily driver my pick is Debian
[16:33:47] <pfred1> I was installing some silly KDE themes the other day and they needed a bunch of deps in order ot make work it was easy to get it all to work
[16:34:47] <pfred1> on slackware I'd still be working on it now I'm sure
[16:35:35] <KimK> skunkKandT: Hi Sam, (Sam at K&T), guess we have to do without the mini-fest. How's the K&T work going? What's your current project?
[16:35:38] <pfred1> I've done it the bad old way and I'll take the easy new way now
[16:36:54] <atmega> http://www.divematrix.com/gallery/data/539/Halcyon-Lid.jpg
[16:37:16] <atmega> my lid looks at least that good, just need the hardware.
[16:37:19] <pfred1> atmega yup you could polish melt that edge and it'd be radical
[16:37:27] <atmega> that's a factory one
[16:38:17] <pfred1> atmega it would look 10X better burnt if it was done right
[16:38:31] <pfred1> atmega even that isn't polished enoug hto burn yet though
[16:38:50] <pfred1> still has some too big scratches in it
[16:38:54] <atmega> I turned a big one down a few years ago and hit it with a torch, it looked ok... didn't polish first though
[16:39:08] <pfred1> well that is the trick get is as smooth as possible then torch it
[16:39:13] <atmega> that one is used, they get banged up by cave walls, boats, etc
[16:39:37] <pfred1> oh if it get banged up then the heck with it i guess
[16:39:49] <pfred1> why even make it ouf ot clear?
[16:40:04] <atmega> to look for water leakage
[16:40:17] <atmega> it's part of a dive light
[16:40:37] <pfred1> that connector is water proof?
[16:41:11] <atmega> yeah, teh bulged part is just a strain relief
[16:41:30] <skunkKandT> KimK: going well. did you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLE4lzPcEo8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL c?
[16:41:43] <pfred1> it still looks like a candidate for burning to me
[16:41:45] <atmega> they are tested to 600ft...I've had mine to 270' with no problems
[16:41:55] <atmega> yeah, I'll polish/burn mine
[16:42:34] <pfred1> I mean when i saw the piece this guy I knew did I have ot admit I was mighty impressed
[16:42:48] <pfred1> it didn't look like something someone had did you know?
[16:42:57] <atmega> I squirted some silicone on mine while I was tapping it and it made the edges look better than that one
[16:43:22] <pfred1> cutting lubricants can make for better finishes
[16:43:47] <pfred1> often I know steel dry and wet is night and day
[16:44:34] <pfred1> though oddly the best finish on steel is dry with carbide go figure?
[16:46:26] <pfred1> I'm not sure if every plastic you can do the torch trick to
[16:46:49] <pfred1> so I'd try it on a piece i didn't care about first heck even if I knew it was a piece that worked I'd still want to practice some
[17:02:13] <atmega> I've done it to acrylic before, works well if you don't burn it
[17:03:33] <andypugh> awallin: The Live-CD is SMP with a CPU locked to RT
[17:05:14] <skunkKandT> is it? I thought you still needed to do a isolcpus if you wanted that..
[17:05:53] <andypugh> Actually, now you mention it, I am not sure about the isolcpus. But I seem to recall finding that it was already there.
[17:07:24] <frallzor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSnSIF7SOBo fun fun fun
[17:08:24] <SWPLinux> andypugh: cat /proc/cmdline
[17:08:51] <SWPLinux> that'll tell you if isolcpus is used (assuming you're on a machine that would use it)
[17:09:07] <andypugh> SWPLinux: Doesn't tell me if it was already there or if I put it there, though...
[17:09:36] <skunkKandT> BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-122-rtai root=UUID=ad1780e5-6f9b-4dd8-9bb1-491377365f86 ro quiet splash
[17:09:53] <andypugh> But it seems to _not_ be there, which I guess does answer the question.
[17:10:34] <andypugh> Anyway, the point that there is no point building your own rtai smp 10.04 kernel remains.
[17:11:19] <skunkKandT> right! :)
[17:13:29] <awallin> thanks for this info
[17:13:49] <awallin> I guess I'm building it myself anyway since I started with a stoch 10.04lts install
[17:14:09] <SWPLinux> there's an emc3 install script for lucid, I believe
[17:14:11] <awallin> I'm getting 10 to 15k latency with the stock install
[17:14:11] <SWPLinux> err
[17:14:13] <SWPLinux> emc2
[17:14:26] <skunkKandT> that seems decent.
[17:14:29] <awallin> yes I used that. maybe I got the smp kernel already?
[17:14:45] <awallin> the System Monitor does show two cpu's
[17:15:00] <awallin> so I should just lock one to real-time and then I am done?
[17:16:06] <skunkKandT> yes
[17:17:03] <awallin> that's done with "isolcpus=1" into my GRUB menu.lst ?
[17:17:14] <skunkKandT> yes
[17:17:24] <awallin> I'll try that now. thanks.
[17:17:45] <SWPLinux> err, on lucid it's a little different
[17:17:53] <SWPLinux> edit /etc/default/grub
[17:18:26] <SWPLinux> change the line that has GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="blah blah" to include isolcpus
[17:19:01] <SWPLinux> then run update-grub
[17:19:11] <SWPLinux> * SWPLinux learned this yesterday :)
[17:19:15] <skunkKandT> heh - I cannot say that I have done that in lucid. - only tested it at boot time. so listen to SWPLinux
[17:19:46] <SWPLinux> doing it the "right" way will also insure that it's used after any kernel updates
[17:20:14] <skunkKandT> I also like that you can set grub2 up to boot the last os selected.
[17:20:30] <SWPLinux> I think that was called "savedefault" or something in grub 1
[17:26:33] <atmega> anyone know how, or if you can, mirror text in autocad?
[17:30:30] <andypugh> atmega: Which version?
[17:30:37] <atmega> 2011
[17:30:59] <atmega> there is a box for 'reverse' in style setting, but it makes no visible difference
[17:31:12] <andypugh> If you mirror it using a mirror tool what happens?
[17:31:21] <atmega> it just copies it
[17:31:54] <andypugh> You can possibly dismantle it into curves, then mirror it.
[17:32:00] <atmega> weird, I exploded it and it inverted
[17:32:06] <atmega> ucs
[17:36:48] <JT-Hardinge> finally temporarily connected to the internet... what a pia this setup is
[17:38:28] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: you still usign wireless?
[17:39:22] <JT-Hardinge> yea
[17:39:45] <Jymmm> Man, $20 for a box of CAT5 would save you a lot of grief.
[17:39:54] <JT-Hardinge> I had one cat5e cable with a problem so I'm pulling them back out and putting 3 cat6e cables back
[17:40:02] <JT-Hardinge> how is that Jymmm
[17:40:53] <Jymmm> Run two per location, then you can use the other for home automation, telco, etc =)
[17:41:53] <JT-Hardinge> I had 2 run from the shop to the house so I could get the internet down to the wireless router and one to get network back out here from the router
[17:43:17] <Jymmm> It seesm your wireless has caused a lot of pain, should just get a 8 port switch and run cable to your hosts.
[17:43:35] <Jymmm> or 24p or whatever, could daisy chain a couple
[17:43:55] <JT-Hardinge> Jymmm: my host is 2500' from my antenna!
[17:44:23] <Jymmm> Ok, fiber optical cable then
[17:44:39] <Jymmm> you have a tractor to dig the ditch!
[17:44:53] <Jymmm> =)
[17:44:57] <Jymmm> brb, coffee.....
[17:45:07] <JT-Hardinge> ok, I'll take mine black
[17:52:10] <Jymmm> back
[17:52:24] <Jymmm> sorry, only have blue
[17:58:05] <andypugh> JT-Hardinge: Mole-plough? http://www.moleplow.co.uk/
[17:59:00] <JT-Hardinge> anyway the ISP put a $600 wireless point to point router up on their tower and now that part is fine
[17:59:21] <awallin> got some latency-test numbers measured now: http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/isolcpus_8k.png
[17:59:36] <JT-Hardinge> andypugh: yea, the cable installers usually use that type of rig for underground cables
[17:59:47] <awallin> seems to start out at 4-5k with no load, and then if you really torture the machine it can jump up to 7-8k
[18:00:13] <awallin> this should be ok, I'm using a m5i20 card and servos anyway, so no need for fast step generation
[18:12:46] <pcw_home> Had my coffee in the pasture with the sheep. beautiful California fall morning
[18:12:48] <pcw_home> (problem with petting sheep is the lanolin: what a mess)
[18:25:30] <skunkKandT> heh
[18:25:45] <skunkKandT> isn't that a good hand moisturizer?
[18:27:41] <Guest210> hello guys
[18:28:57] <cradek> hey
[18:29:27] <pcw_home> Its supposed to be good for your hands but this is black, mixed with clay dust and smells stongly of sheep
[18:34:41] <pcw_home> Spartan 6s are really neat about 1/2 the cost / gate as spartan3 and twice as fast (ClockHigh on HM2 can be 200 MHz)
[18:35:50] <pcw_home> Hows the fest?
[18:36:11] <andypugh> They seem busy
[18:37:14] <skunkKandT> I didn't make it this time. working on getting way convers back on the k&t
[18:38:01] <pcw_home> If you're putting the covers on, must mean your almost done
[18:38:32] <skunkKandT> heh - lots of tweeking - but getting there :)
[18:39:00] <skunkKandT> added a spindle speed readout to a pyvpc pannel, Now I need to add a bunch of buttons like pallet change and such.
[18:39:55] <pcw_home> I guess there a bit between getting everything to move and a usable tool
[18:40:10] <pcw_home> (there's)
[18:40:44] <skunkKandT> yes - hope to actally finish it and not say - 'hey it sort of works - lets use it!'
[18:41:28] <pcw_home> I've done that...
[18:41:29] <archivist> heh I started cutting with just 2 axes :)
[18:41:48] <archivist> hand ajusting the others
[18:46:22] <skunkKandT> heh
[18:48:44] <skunkKandT> the spindle speed seems to track pretty well. the ratios I calculated must have been pretty close.
[18:49:19] <JT-Hardinge> Jymmm: this is what is on top of my tower http://www.tranzeo.com/products/radios/TR-902-Series
[18:58:21] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: Just curious, what do you have a tower for? JUST internet, or ???
[18:58:37] <JT-Hardinge> yea, just internet
[18:58:51] <skunkKandT> uncle has a similar setup
[18:59:04] <skunkKandT> no other option other than satellite.
[18:59:10] <skunkKandT> or ewww dialup
[18:59:15] <JT-Hardinge> ouch
[18:59:42] <skunkKandT> I think there is a deal right now that will give you sat internet for about 39 a month (goverment internet program)
[18:59:55] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: So, from the tower, you have a wireless setup to your home?
[19:00:32] <JT-Hardinge> no, cat5e wire down to the shop to a switch then on down to the beer cave to the cisco router
[19:00:57] <JT-Hardinge> then back up to here to another switch to feed all the machines out here
[19:01:05] <Jymmm> tower to switch??? Not router?
[19:01:25] <JT-Hardinge> too far
[19:02:00] <Jymmm> Uh, most routers will up the signal.
[19:02:14] <Jymmm> tower to router to switch(es)
[19:02:24] <Jymmm> That isolates your lan
[19:02:51] <JT-Hardinge> I need the router in the house so the wifes laptop can get a good wireless signal from the router
[19:03:05] <Jymmm> Oh, not just a router, but an AP
[19:03:07] <JT-Hardinge> I have two switches up here
[19:03:19] <JT-Hardinge> one just to pass the internet down to the router
[19:03:55] <JT-Hardinge> one to be downstream of the router up here to pass everything around the lan
[19:03:56] <Jymmm> I see what you're doing, but in your case you swould call it an AP, not a router.
[19:04:06] <JT-Hardinge> why
[19:04:36] <Jymmm> Becasue that's what you're using it as, an AP. Not any of the capabilities/features of a router.
[19:04:52] <JT-Hardinge> what is an AP?
[19:05:02] <Jymmm> AP == Wireless Access Point
[19:05:43] <JT-Hardinge> all of my beer cave computers are connected to the router as well as all these up here via the second switch
[19:06:54] <Jymmm> Most ppl dont, but for example you can isolate wifi and wored traffic using a router, a switch can't do this.
[19:07:02] <Jymmm> s/wored/wired/
[19:08:01] <JT-Hardinge> I just use switch #1 to extend the internet down to the router as it is >500' from tower top to router
[19:08:27] <JT-Hardinge> and I didn't have one of those boost thingies
[19:08:31] <Jymmm> Yes, I understand your setup. But it's NOT how I would do it.
[19:08:41] <JT-Hardinge> how would you do it?
[19:08:55] <Jymmm> I told you already =)
[19:09:00] <JT-Hardinge> I forgot
[19:09:19] <Jymmm> tower to router to switch(es)/AP's
[19:09:29] <JT-Hardinge> too far
[19:09:30] <Jymmm> The router can also serve as a firewall
[19:09:39] <Jymmm> No, your not understnating
[19:09:58] <JT-Hardinge> explain
[19:09:59] <Jymmm> Dont think of your routers as a point to connect to wifi.
[19:10:09] <Jymmm> think of them as AP's.
[19:10:11] <JT-Hardinge> I only have one router
[19:10:24] <Jymmm> Again, Dont think of your routers as a point to connect to wifi.
[19:10:44] <Jymmm> You can turn a linksys/csico router into a dumb AP.
[19:11:11] <JT-Hardinge> how do you do that?
[19:11:34] <JT-Hardinge> I think it is pretty dumb now
[19:12:14] <Jymmm> That's what I do. I have two of them so I have full coverage all around the house, but only the main router gives out IP addresses and the AP's use the same SSID but different channels. So I can move from the front to thte back of the hoouse any never lose connection.
[19:13:10] <skunkKandT> I have the same setup
[19:13:34] <JT-Hardinge> what is the advantage of putting the router in the shop instead of using the switch as a booster?
[19:13:38] <Jymmm> I'm going to be going a step further and setup VLAN's for the wifi and the wired LAN.
[19:13:49] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: security primarily.
[19:14:10] <JT-Hardinge> in case someone breaks in my house?
[19:14:21] <Jymmm> Ever hear of war driving?
[19:14:25] <JT-Hardinge> no
[19:14:48] <Jymmm> War driving is where ppl look for wifi AP's
[19:15:02] <Jymmm> they just drive down the road looking for signals
[19:15:02] <JT-Hardinge> they would get shot out here :)
[19:15:18] <Jymmm> they dont have to even step on the property
[19:15:27] <Jymmm> they use fancy antennas, etc
[19:16:20] <JT-Hardinge> Jymmm: I live on a dead end dirt road off of a dirt road out in the woods anyone with a fancy antenna would get shot at
[19:16:36] <Jymmm> Let me ask you this.... the switch between the tower and the router, is ANYTHIGN else plugges into it?
[19:16:48] <JT-Hardinge> so how could they get a signal from my switch?
[19:17:00] <Jymmm> Just two cables plugged into that switch?
[19:17:23] <JT-Hardinge> yep it is just being used as a booster
[19:17:44] <Jymmm> So, no other computer is plugged into it?
[19:17:59] <JT-Hardinge> there is no computers plugged into the switch
[19:18:04] <JT-Hardinge> is/are
[19:18:09] <Jymmm> WIFI is super easy to break into.
[19:18:17] <Jymmm> even with encryption
[19:18:46] <skunkKandT> wpa isn't 'that easy'
[19:18:51] <skunkKandT> wap is
[19:18:55] <Jymmm> Yeah, it is.
[19:19:27] <Jymmm> WPA2-Enterprise (not WPA2-Personal) is fairly strong.
[19:19:56] <Jymmm> But VLAN and/or VPN is best
[19:20:30] <skinnypup> Setting the mac access list in the router is always a good idea to keep the hitchhikers off
[19:20:46] <Jymmm> Yes, but very easily circumvented.
[19:20:54] <skinnypup> yup
[19:20:55] <Jymmm> you just sniff it
[19:21:22] <Jymmm> bbiab
[19:23:11] <JT-Hardinge> http://imagebin.ca/view/AqsHVU.html
[19:24:03] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge wanders off to take a nap
[19:38:42] <frallzor> name a few cheap, easy to machine plastics with good qualities
[19:39:42] <archivist> good quality for job A != good quality for job B
[19:40:34] <frallzor> well I cant see any plastic that anyone asks for "easy to break" :P
[19:44:59] <andypugh> frallzor: Delrin
[19:48:58] <pfred1> since when is delrin cheap?
[19:49:43] <frallzor> its quite pricey
[19:49:52] <frallzor> but might be cheaper than cibatool....
[19:50:16] <pfred1> uhmw is pretty cheap
[19:50:33] <frallzor> making weapon dummies so it needs to take some "abuse"
[19:51:14] <pfred1> cutting boards are usually uhmw
[19:52:44] <pfred1> although if you buy Delrin you keep my taxes low ;)
[19:53:25] <pfred1> * pfred1 lives in the land of Dupont ...
[19:55:33] <pfred1> poor Seaford is like a ghost town since they closed the nylon plant there :9
[19:56:18] <pfred1> http://www.usacitiesonline.com/decountyseaford.htm
[19:56:34] <pfred1> "The Nylon Capital of the World"
[20:21:26] <andypugh> Delrin is cheap compared to polyimide
[20:21:38] <andypugh> (Check the prices of Vespel)
[20:22:21] <DaViruz> my distributor has pretty much identical prices on PA and POM
[20:22:53] <DaViruz> PA being somewhat less expensive
[20:28:38] <pfred1> plastic is cool stuff though I always wanted to learn how to home recycle the stuff
[20:29:09] <pfred1> I've often thought about getting an old pot putting it on a fire and chucking a bunch of old milk jugs in there and seeing what'd happen to it
[20:29:37] <pfred1> I mostly haven't done it because i figure it'd just burst into flame or something with my luck
[20:59:20] <Jymmm> http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/food/10-fast-food-items-turned-into-fancy-dishes-2409342/
[21:21:02] <pfred1> Jymmm disgusting!
[21:23:57] <Jymmm> lol
[21:25:20] <boot|sleep> boot|sleep is now known as bootnecklad
[21:35:37] <pfred1> Jymmm I had to stop reading when they got the the part about scraping the toppings off a Pizza Hut pizza
[21:36:25] <Jymmm> you know you love it
[21:37:03] <pfred1> fast food is murder!
[22:15:00] <JT-Hardinge> Yea! the 3 cat6e cables are inside of the conduit
[22:18:46] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[22:19:16] <andypugh> I was looking at a sample page from a semi-nude calendar a friend of mine is in (naked sidecar-racing girls obscured by bike parts, pit boards, that sort of thing). I am concerned that I spotted a typographical error.
[22:21:47] <JT-Hardinge> and...
[22:21:50] <JT-Hardinge> Jymmm:
[22:22:44] <JT-Hardinge> andypugh: platinum is the highest rating on the board
[22:23:19] <andypugh> There should be a 6031 next. Then EN24
[22:23:31] <JT-Hardinge> 7075 too
[22:24:47] <JT-Hardinge> with a servo spindle drive orientating the spindle for tool change should be fairly straight forward?
[22:25:00] <andypugh> Trivial
[22:25:24] <andypugh> But I think it is possible with an ordinary (and cheap) induction motor
[22:25:48] <andypugh> You can always stall against a pawl at very low speed.
[22:25:54] <JT-Hardinge> I'm thinking about my BP with a servo spindle drive
[22:26:15] <JT-Hardinge> and what I might have to do when the DOS controller takes a hike
[22:26:15] <andypugh> Yes, that should be embarassingly simple.
[22:27:08] <andypugh> You have a mux to switch between speed-control and PID position control of the spindle. Switch the mux on tool-change request, job done.
[22:27:31] <andypugh> (I may be omitting a few _teeny_ technical details.
[22:28:16] <JT-Hardinge> ok, switch between spindle and a rotary axis?
[22:29:54] <JT-Hardinge> now to figure out where I really want the phone jack on the wall of the shop...
[22:35:01] <andypugh> JT-Hardinge: Not really, just switch the spindle speed/direction signals from spindle-speed to the output of a PID controller that is ignored most of the time, but that has an output proportional to how far the spindle position is from 0.5.
[22:36:02] <andypugh> I think it is probably about 8 lines of HAL.
[22:36:20] <JT-Hardinge> ah, ok I understand now
[22:38:51] <andypugh> If it works it is scarily simple.
[22:39:00] <skunkKandT> made chips!
[22:39:14] <JT-Hardinge> my BP has a little smarts and picks the direction that is shortest to the next tool
[22:39:20] <JT-Hardinge> video?
[22:39:37] <skunkKandT> heh - maybe in a bit. video is pretty crappy
[22:46:06] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/testing/DSCF1224.JPG
[22:46:32] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/testing/DSCF1231.JPG
[22:47:52] <JT-Hardinge> some kind of slide gear
[22:48:08] <JT-Hardinge> ?
[22:49:25] <andypugh> That looks to have worked.
[22:49:51] <andypugh> I am going to try hexagonal boring on my lathe at some point :-)
[22:50:10] <skunkworks> neat!
[22:50:32] <skunkworks> JT-Hardinge: it is the only way we can get a timing belt on the spindle.
[22:50:40] <skunkworks> it will fit on the rear hex.
[22:51:55] <andypugh> It's not the _only_ way. You could have screwed it onto the threaded stub.
[22:52:09] <andypugh> But I do like your solution.
[22:53:40] <JT-Hardinge> skunkworks: cool
[22:57:01] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/belvel.JPG
[22:57:11] <skunkworks> goes on the small hex
[22:57:41] <JT-Hardinge> is that for a spindle encoder?
[22:57:58] <andypugh> Ah, OK
[22:58:21] <skunkworks> yes
[22:58:52] <andypugh> I think I would have screwed a home-made encoder disc on that fine thread. Your way might well be better.
[22:59:07] <skunkworks> it will actually move about 1/8 to a 1/4 when the collet is clamped/unclamped
[22:59:18] <andypugh> Your way is better :-)
[23:00:04] <andypugh> Are those horrid screws and washers original?
[23:00:08] <skunkworks> thanks. - we actually had a while to think aboout it :)
[23:00:28] <skunkworks> we are not sure what the deal was with that
[23:00:35] <skunkworks> both spindles have it.
[23:00:47] <skunkworks> might have been some sort of in-the-field mod
[23:01:26] <andypugh> I might be tempted to make some sort of collar.
[23:02:19] <andypugh> There should at least be packers under the other side of the washer.
[23:02:31] <skunkworks> right
[23:03:20] <andypugh> It's totally out of keeping with the incredible quality of the rest of the machine (and of your mods)
[23:03:54] <skunkworks> heh
[23:06:41] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW6eXiMoFp8
[23:10:39] <skunkworks> we may have been going a little fast.. ;)
[23:11:29] <JT-Hardinge> that 4 be 2 gets a lot of use :)
[23:12:05] <skunkworks> I think it is a 1X ;)
[23:20:01] <JT-Hardinge> Yea! I have restored phone service to the shop... next up internet
[23:21:38] <andypugh> What odd priorities!
[23:22:16] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge what happened?
[23:23:50] <Valen> you can have phone without internet now?
[23:24:17] <pfred1> sure
[23:24:20] <pfred1> POTS
[23:24:49] <Valen> I think i heard something about that once
[23:25:05] <Valen> back in the old days
[23:25:30] <pfred1> though I'm all bundled here now phone TV net all same cable
[23:25:40] <Valen> naked ADSL here
[23:25:43] <pfred1> sort of like they bill me three times for one service huh?
[23:26:33] <andypugh> Fibre to the door here.
[23:27:01] <pfred1> that is what i have
[23:27:06] <Valen> bastards
[23:27:13] <pfred1> but on the wall of the house it gets split to coax
[23:27:25] <Valen> though we are sposed to be getting fiber to the home in the next few years
[23:27:38] <Valen> pfred1: sure its not docsys system?
[23:27:49] <pfred1> Valen I have fios
[23:27:50] <JT-Hardinge> pfred1: one of my cat5e cables had a fault so I replaced them all
[23:27:51] <Valen> high bandwidth coax in the street
[23:28:07] <pfred1> no it is fiber on my property up to the wall box
[23:28:15] <pfred1> I helped the guy put it in
[23:28:21] <Valen> sounds weird
[23:28:30] <Valen> why go fiber > coax
[23:28:39] <pfred1> stuff doesn't lend itself to easy installation or working with
[23:28:48] <Valen> yeah but cat 5 does ;-.
[23:28:49] <pfred1> because making fiber connecitons is expensive
[23:29:10] <pfred1> they don't even do field connections
[23:29:26] <Valen> I think the way our thing is sposed to happen is they will basically be running an all IP network
[23:29:38] <Valen> 100mbit or more
[23:29:52] <pfred1> well my router thinks the set top boxes are just other IPs
[23:30:03] <Valen> so any service providers are probably going to just have fiber > switch
[23:30:15] <pfred1> least that is how it looks when I log into the thing
[23:30:17] <Valen> and the tv set top boxes will stream the TV over IP
[23:30:37] <Valen> the tv signal though would be coming in over the coax though in a non IP format I'd wager
[23:31:12] <pfred1> I got coax going to the router and all the set top boxes in the house
[23:31:28] <pfred1> the fiber terminates on the outside wall
[23:31:48] <Valen> yeah it'll be running some kind of docsis thing
[23:32:01] <pfred1> I've no idea what that is
[23:32:04] <Valen> do you also have ethernet into your set top box?
[23:32:18] <pfred1> not sure
[23:32:31] <Valen> you were saying you can access them by IP
[23:32:41] <pfred1> I was saying the router does
[23:32:50] <pfred1> or they're on the config page as IPs
[23:33:09] <pfred1> to the system the set top boxes are IPs
[23:33:32] <Valen> i do doubt that the TV content is going out over IP though
[23:33:53] <pfred1> probably not probably modulated on another wavelength
[23:34:18] <pfred1> though I do have on demand which I guess is some sort of streaming scheme
[23:34:27] <Valen> how on demand is it?
[23:34:37] <pfred1> least when i select the stuff it seems to take some time to download then start
[23:34:38] <Valen> like instant or 15 minutes later
[23:34:45] <pfred1> few seconds
[23:35:01] <Valen> I haven't heard of anybody doing IPtv in a major way yet
[23:35:03] <pfred1> sometimes it is a bit Mr. magoo when i hit play but usually fires up in under a minute
[23:35:20] <Valen> I'd wager they send it down as a channel just for you
[23:35:47] <pfred1> yes I've no idea how it works though my set top boxes are DVRs too
[23:36:07] <Valen> I use mythtv and free to air tv for all my stuff
[23:36:15] <Valen> and the occasional trip to the video store ;->
[23:36:34] <pfred1> I don't know if i get much of an air signal where I'm at
[23:36:55] <pfred1> I know rabbit ears pick up nothing
[23:37:16] <skunkworks> kinda psychedelic.. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/testing/DSCF1235.JPG
[23:37:24] <Valen> FTA is the main thing in australia, paytv has an adoption rate of ~30% I think
[23:37:43] <Valen> skunkworks: perrrty
[23:37:46] <pfred1> ther is an antenna on the roof but i never did figure out just what cable it is there was like a dozen in the place when I moved in then the satellite guy butchered most of those
[23:37:50] <Valen> nice finish
[23:38:13] <pfred1> that was how he marked the cables by cutting off their ends had i caught him I'd have crucified him for having done it
[23:38:14] <skunkworks> may have been feeding a bit fast
[23:38:43] <Valen> how does cutting off an end mark a cable :-<
[23:38:54] <pfred1> it tells you it is not one yo uwant to use
[23:38:57] <Valen> other than marking it as fucked
[23:38:58] <Valen> lol
[23:39:24] <pfred1> when I moved in there was literally a buncle of coax coming up out of the floor in the living room
[23:39:32] <Valen> if its standard coax, screw on connectors are pretty cheap
[23:39:34] <pfred1> I counted at least 12 wires
[23:39:43] <pfred1> yes and work about as well
[23:39:44] <Valen> lol you americans and your coax ;->
[23:39:55] <Valen> pfred1: seems to be working well enough for me ;-P
[23:40:18] <pfred1> the screw on ones do work better than the crimp ones
[23:40:27] <pfred1> I've had a lot of trouble with them
[23:40:39] <Valen> I was under the impression the crimp ones were better, but you need a very good crimper
[23:40:52] <pfred1> yes I guess the crimper i have isn't so swift
[23:41:41] <pfred1> I prefer the factory ends over everything they have very nice crimpers
[23:42:09] <Valen> yeah
[23:42:34] <pfred1> the antenna i have on the roof looks like it is just UHF to me and i think that is the only signal I could pick up here
[23:43:00] <Valen> I believe you guys have digital broadcast TV over there now
[23:43:03] <pfred1> I think i have the potential to recieve 3 UHF channels here
[23:43:19] <pfred1> yes we do it is the same channels though
[23:43:39] <pfred1> the channels didn't change just the signals on them
[23:43:58] <Valen> yeah, here they have started adding new channels
[23:44:21] <pfred1> here they're talking about eliminating all air broadcasts
[23:44:38] <JT-Hardinge> If I'm back in a few then it worked... if not send out the
[23:44:52] <Valen> like #7 now has #7 which was their normal broadcast, #7two which has decent stuff on it and now they have braught out 7mate which has all "blokey" shows on it, like The A-Team etc
[23:45:24] <Valen> I'd hate to only have cable
[23:45:35] <Valen> costs so much and its just repeats that are full of ads
[23:45:42] <pfred1> I used to love the original A Team show
[23:45:50] <Valen> if your already paying to watch it, shouldn't it come without ads
[23:46:04] <Valen> yeah thats what they are screening, the origionals
[23:46:17] <pfred1> the way cable pricing is its pretty much crap
[23:46:19] <Valen> the recent movie was ok too
[23:46:44] <pfred1> to get a specific channel yo uhave to subscribe to like 100 you'd never watch in bundles
[23:46:54] <pfred1> people say a la carte would be so much better
[23:47:23] <pfred1> but then again there are channels I find myself watching from time to time that I'd have never thought I would
[23:47:51] <Valen> on demand TV without ads would be worth it I reckons
[23:48:17] <pfred1> a lot of times I'll do on demand because there is nothing i really want to watch when I sit down to watch
[23:48:31] <skinnypup> mythtv
[23:48:53] <pfred1> that is like tivo right?
[23:49:01] <skinnypup> yeah
[23:49:15] <skinnypup> check out hauppage pvr cards on ebay
[23:49:28] <pfred1> to behonest I don't think I'm dedicated enough to even pick stuff to watch in advance
[23:49:46] <skinnypup> mythbuntu and mythdora are two ready to go distros
[23:49:49] <Valen> I was thinking all those shows that get canned, like firefly, dark angel etc, normally get funded to the tune of ~$1M an episode, if you got 1M people to pony up $1 per ep, you could skip the "networks" completely, basically buy the DVD box set with a really long delivery time, and download the eps as they come
[23:49:56] <Valen> I use mythbuntu
[23:49:56] <pfred1> mostly i fall asleep in 15 minutes of turning a TV on anyways
[23:50:24] <pfred1> I just need something that isn't so annoying it keeps me awake :)
[23:50:36] <Valen> its easy to use, I just tell it to reccord say the a team any time its on and when i want to watch tv, I have a bunch of A teams ready to go, and mostly without ads
[23:50:51] <skinnypup> know the feeling valen
[23:51:13] <skinnypup> I can never schedule me around when something is going to air
[23:51:25] <Valen> Oh I'd never go back
[23:51:32] <Valen> I've been using myth for years now
[23:51:37] <skinnypup> ditto
[23:51:50] <pfred1> Valen the firefly movie really showed me the difference in cinematography between TV bufget and movie though
[23:52:00] <pfred1> the movie was so much better
[23:52:06] <Valen> in some ways I prefered the tv
[23:52:15] <pfred1> I mean just in the crafting of it
[23:52:34] <pfred1> and the hokest TV show is that star trek next generation
[23:52:38] <Valen> I think I prefer the less is more approach of the tv budget
[23:52:51] <pfred1> ship gets hit by something hten they dump a bunch of flexible duct work ont othe cast
[23:52:51] <Valen> less CGI, more "real" stuff
[23:53:09] <Valen> did farscape make it over to you guys?
[23:53:21] <pfred1> I think I've heard of it
[23:53:28] <Valen> I love how much smoke is in the electronics of space ships in the future
[23:53:29] <pfred1> might have been ob BBC or something
[23:53:39] <Valen> it was made in australia
[23:53:44] <pfred1> but i don't watch BBC much
[23:54:02] <pfred1> I love mad max
[23:54:12] <pfred1> I must have seen that movie 50 times by now
[23:54:22] <pfred1> best car stunts
[23:54:30] <Valen> heh was pretty cool
[23:54:52] <pfred1> ever see the guy on the motorcycle who gets hit in the back of the head by the rear tire of the bike?
[23:55:08] <Valen> I havent seen it in quite a while
[23:55:12] <pfred1> he wipes out on a bridge I believe
[23:55:29] <pfred1> it had to have hurt!
[23:56:04] <pfred1> I have like the original undubbed version on VHS I watch it from time to time
[23:56:18] <Valen> did they redub it into american for you lol
[23:56:20] <pfred1> I don't much care what they're all saying anyways
[23:56:40] <pfred1> well the accent is pretty thick on the original
[23:56:53] <pfred1> there is still an accent on the dubbed version just a lot less thick