theorb is now known as theorbtwo
i want to control 6 steppers through 1 parallel port, but it won't leave much left for i/o
buy a PCI add on port card?
thought about that, was hoping i could do something like the pluto card?
sure that too
some way to talk to an external card
do any of these motors do the same things as any others?
like are any slaves?
OK that nixes that idea
my mahcine is going to have two slave pairs
so it'll be a 3 axis just with 2 axis with 4 motors
5 total motors
this will be 4 axis hotwire/mill, so in mill mode, 2 will be z and 2 will be x. then a y and an a to change from hw to mill
so those are slaved pairs
i can build uP cards and talk to them, but not sure how to tell emc to talk to it
they are only slaved in mill mode, h/w they are independent
why aren't two motors on an axis slaves?
in hotwire mode, 2 x's and 2 z's are independent
hmm I'm not seeing the kinematics but I thnk i know what yo uare driving at
yeah you need more IO
think 4 axis hotwire, with a gantry for y
a will spin the gantry for a "tool change" between mill and hot wire
any ideas how the pluto card works?
machines about done, starting to think about the control. default is 2 ports
I've seen support for it in EMC so I'd imagine it works well
does whatever it is supposed to do
parallel port is about as low as it goes anything seems to be an improvement
any ideas how to talk to one i make myself?
cool thing about pluto is it runs from the para port
hmm not so sure how cool that it I'd rather drect to the PCI bus
pport is max 150 kb/s isn't it?
folks are WAY too proud of those cards!
it must work on some sort of a masking and decoding scheme
so does HAL do the talking to it?
you figure on 8 bits alone you have 256 discrete combinations
that ought to be enough outputs for anybody
yup! and easy to implement
256 out and 256 in!
well a 74154 will out 16 from 4
as a demultiplexer
so just two of those and you have 32 out
never even thought about going descreet
which still ought to be enough for anybody
ive been pretty intimate with pic's for about 12 years now
TTL is drop in and go solution
for $2 I can have 54 I/O
sometimes brains get in the way
but I am still stuck on how to get emc to send encoded signals instead of regular step/dir
I keep on meaning to do something with a pic but always manage it with straight logic
let me go check that port speed, brb
well it would appear in epp mode, up to 2Mbps
yeah there are the extended modes
but that is bits not bytes?
my first pic project was reading an encoder and controlling 2 air valves
2MBps, not sure if cap B is bytes or bits, I think bytes in this case
I'm not sure if EMC is EPP aware or not
it may only do ECP
it would be somethng I'd check out if it was my project
apperantly ECP is not supported over the pci bus, so it seems add on cards won't be ecp
often this channel sounds like aliens communicating about world domination
oh so it is only EPP?
yes, I plan on figuring this out. but as default, we add a para card
that would be the easiest isn't SPP only one way?
it is a very funny read to look back on
maybe only epp
oh wait SPP goes two ways but you can't toggle the initial 8 back and forth
I think that is the difference SPP is only out mode
i think that is correct
in SPP you have the 8 out and 5 in like out mode
sometimes i would almost pay good money to hav an isa bus
I think they slow systems down too much anymore
so multiplexed, thats 256 out and 32 in
sounds a plenty
now the thing is making USB gadgets
though EMC doesn't do USB
they were too much trouble for builders too. but a dream to build your own I/O card for
too much delay between data
is USB capable of real time?
I thought not
that there was some sort of a timing constraint going on with it
like it is asynch or something
nothing i ever tried to mess with really
the through put is good, but the protocal allows for waiting to share the bus
i think it might be something like up to 10 mS delay
ah it is polled
that would be a show stopper
there are some usb controllers out there, but im pretty sure they are buffering some number of commands
kinda takes the real out of real time
a computer on the end of a wire
yeah why do with one computer what you can do with two?
just so long as you're making cash off the second one of course
if it aint broke, fix it till it is!
the PC I am using for EMC cost me exactly $0
see, im like if im gonna have the second one, whats the first one doing?
the beauty of emc
I was at a yard sale and the lady had a pile of garbage in the corner of her garage and I asked her how much for the computer? she said you want it take it
I actually bought a brand new SBC for this project
i like yours better
well my latency isn't the greatest but for free I'll live with it
i have it suped up with a disk on module for hdd
i have another machine running with a 300Mhz VIA sbc
I'm sure if I was better at configuring it I could get a bit better performance out of it
runs just fine after it finally boots
but as it is I have 60 IPM down good
this machine boots in 16 seconds
I ran bootchart on it
my 300 feels like 16 mins
hmmm try bootchart on it see what is taking
the new one i bought for $84 boots in mere seconds
i will try that, or a stopwatch
cncmachineguy it makes you one of these: http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2250/wedoct27bootchart.png
have you upgraded to lynx?
which is a tad better than what a stop watch tells you
cncmachineguy oh i have the new lynx
thats a pretty picture, it would be a great tool to see what the holdup is
aptitude install bootchart
do you like lynx
i don't allow my machine controlers to talk to the outside world
but it has gotten me out of some binds from time to time
yes eventually I will cut most of the networking out of this machine when it goes into production
just leave it enough for Linux to run
i have some dx32 controls on some bridgeports in my shop
they use dos
but they have dedicated machine control boards to run the machine
dos program just gives hmi
ms-dos was a single tasking OS
so I suppose it is suited to some machine control applications
in fact, i can lose the whole puter, and as long as i have bus power, the machine will run everytime you push go
ms-dos rules for this type stuff
there is only one task, run the machine
years ago I wrote some machine assembler that ran on ms-dos
thats why i don't let them talk to the outside
was quite speedy code
thats how i been programming my pics
So guys, what CAM software do you all use? I'm using Inventor for cad.. but need something to convert to g-code
mostly i write my own stuff
I just use the gcode generators that ship with EMC
I'm not interested in making designed parts per se
about 4 years ago i had a valid copy of feature cam, but i didn't like most of the code it made
also used phlatscript for sketchup. its ok
but y is backwards
I hear lots of people talk about heekscad
gcode generator that came with EMC ?
supposedly it can generate gcode or has a filter or something
@conner, 2.5d or 3d?
Connor emc has a font script and imagetogcode
well maybe 2 font scripts I'm not sure was reading about it yesterday
What's the diff?
Probably just 2.5D for now.. Cutting out basic shapes.
2.5 d really only deals with x,y with a sorta fixed z. 3d has all 3 moving all the time
Connor seems like cradek has something for autocad as well on his site
well i been thinking about my original question, maybe i should ask if anyone knows how to send commands out the para instead of just step/dir?
the ppmc, pluto, and mesa-7i43 drivers all transfer data/"commands" via the parallel port
so how to configure a driver for my own card? with hal?
SWPadnos are there any open source hardware implementations?
nope, not that I know of
unless the pluto schematics are available
SWPadnos should we make one?
if you like
I'd open source my parallel port buffer and motor driver if I knew how
neither are anything special but they both appear to work to me
publish the schematics and PCB files in Eagle format (or something else that people might have access too for cheap/free)
I think there was an I/O expsnder that someone made, with eagle schematics available
but I don't remember who or where the files are
yeah i have the eagle files for both
but i am missing something fundamental here, haw does the driver tell emc what to send out the port?
my port buffer is sort of like this other guy's on the net but his has features I don't need and well I don't think he did some things on it too well
the driver does the actual sending out the port, emc tells the driver what to do
so for instance, how did the driver developers know how to talk to emc?
the motion controller outputs a new position every millisecond (or whatever your SERVO_PERIOD is), and other things in HAL cause something to get output to your hardware
cncmachineguy manufacturers contributed drivers
like a step generator that's connected to a parallel port driver, or a pid that's connected to something with analog (or PWM) outputs
they were like hey a whole market
kind of. some help more than others, some send a free card or two to a developer or two, etc
past that a market of users used to reading instructions!
what little we can get our hands on
well, that seems to be changing, with all these newfangled GUI setup programs :)
oh. so generally speaking, its not something available to the general public?
har har. there are like 800 pages of instructions
i am actually trying to read all the instructions i can get my hands on
get yoiurself a comfortable chair. it'll take a while
[01:45:06] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/5/5/lang,english/
I've read getting started and the integrators guides
though there is a lot of assumption that one is using the CD image
I think there is some duplication in the pdfs
it doesn't hurt to read some things twice
well, for the getting started guide that makes sense
you'll never hear a complaint from me!
the easiest way to get a running system is to download and install from CD
mostly read the intergrators manual
yes, and that works great for 3 or 4 axis
the HAL manual is probably a good place to look as well (I don't know how much of that is duplicated in the integrators manual)
SWPadnos yes but assuming that is what everyone does doesn't always make it too easy on those that don't
that's true enough
cncmachineguy, what do you mean?
(works great for 3 or 4 axis)
there are 5 axis samples as well, I believe
just dl, burn, install, run stepconf wizard and you are off and running
yes, stepconf is great for up to 4 axes
SWPadnos I went nuts the other day trying to run stepconf I found the python script and kept on running that until micges pointed me to the bin directory
there is also pncconf, which is much more comprehensive, but there aren't as many users
its also great to get a head start on the config files
which stepconf :)
that isn't on my path in run in place
my problem is i need to run 6 axis, but dont want to add a second para port
oh i know how to do it now thanks to micges
then it will be
you have no choice, I think
cncmachineguy dude I'm as cheap as ripple and even I bought a parallel port card
well, maybe you do. I think there may be 12 output pins on a parport
pcncx - LMAO
better hurry, I'm leaving early Wednesday morning :)
SWPadnos: You keep running off wen I show up.... you trying to tell me sumtin?
cncmachineguy the Rosewill is nice
so if i used a pluto, i would be golden?
cncmachineguy a Rosewill RC304 is like $15
* qq- resume one para port card for up to 5 axis ..
cncmachineguy, pluto is not a good choice
maybe thats the ticket, pci i suppose?
cncmachineguy yes with 2 ports
the hardware is not well designed, and the driver author doesn't particularly want to encourage its use
i really just want his driver
i only have 1 pci slot, kinda wanted to save it for don't know what
can't PCI slots take risers?
but maybe i just use it
yes, could go that route
and "rise" to the occasion
like all PCI slots are sort of the same just physically different
yup, the same but different! lol.
SWPadnos: Whats goin on?
well they're all mirrors of each other the connectors
they're like clones!
looked up your card, 304, seems like the best solution i guess
can i run 3 ports?
um. PCI slots have two different voltages, the ones with a small connector on only one side will only accept cards of one of those voltages (3.3V or 5V)
you have all 3 the onboard then the add ons
don't turn the card around to make it fit
when you plug it in issue this command dmesg | grep parport
you'll see them all
Jymmm, not much, just some design work, preparing for the next trip, you know :)
does emc support 3?
SWPadnos: LOL, you need a gopher?
you can use all 3 at the same time
now i'm getting excited!!
that should give me real I/O to work with
the mesa cards seem to be the stuff everyone loves
the mega IO types
yes it is
well what is a mesa about $130 ?
495 kinda blows the budget
well hey Rosewill $15
I did it because i didn't completely trust my port buffer
but it seems to work to me
Still like the idea of talking to a smart card hanging on the para
the rosewill pushes like 24 ma
ok, got to go order some
this should elimate the need for any interface card at all in my system
i might be able to let emc handle all my limits!
you can configure a port as input
and have the data bus input
that gives you 13 inputs on one port?
so 12 motor signals, 11 limits in
drive enable out
seems like for $15, PROBLEM IS SOLVED
well between the 3 ports all configured out you still have 15 inputs
THANKS FOR THE HELP, GOING TO ORDER CARDS
you just need one
pcncx, use this one ? > http://www.rosewill.com/products/478/productDetail.htm
qq- is that the RC304?
putting together 2 machines
so i need 2
cncmachineguy there is no cheaper solution that is for sure
pcncx, yes, it seems
qq- yeah teh RC304 rox
and it keeps ALL control with emc :)
it is simple
someone in here bought a few different kinds said that one looked the best to them so I went with it too
and it looks good to me
looks like i better verify pci slot is 5V in my target system
it is one of those nice dark green matte finish PCBs you know?
as opposed to those pale green shiny boards that look all sorts of cheap
mine looks to not use the last 5 sets of connectors
it is a short card
if that helps any
and it is a snazzy looking board
though in my machine i had an issue with an overhang on the front of it so it only fit into some slots
how to use image-to-gcode.py to convert an image to G Code ? 'image-to-gcode.py name.png'
qq- when i used it I remember making the image like 1 bit?
maybe you don't have to but I sort of remember the format being important
format ? as in .png ?
well within png there are different oh how can I put it?
open the file in the gimp and under the image menu I believe it is it lets you change the file type
which format we needs .fig or what ?
like if it say has an aphpa channel or is transparant
or is 256 bit or 1 bit
pcncx, i see , thanks
I sort of remember haivng to do a conversion on the image to get it to work
but once it works it is really cool
i hope .. ;)
no it is it is worth screwing around with
cradek would know how to use it he wrote it
sure , have to find doc which explain image format type
I'm pretty sure it was 1 bit it worked with like black and white
as in cut or don't cut
but you could set the depth
then open it in axis and see it
qq- if i can figure it out it can't be that hard to do
pcncx, not a hurry here, just curious about format
and i did manage to figure it out
I'm pretty sure I had to convert the image to 1 bit
as in straight black and white
though maybe it can do gray scale as well?
I don't know
pcncx, i'll don't go in deeper on that , for now
open up the script it might have hints in comments
python scripts are human readable
ah > im = Image.open("bigchris.gif")
seems be .gif
maybe it was a 1 bit gif?
in any event i remember conversion being an issue
Who makes the rc-308 board?
rosewill makes the 304
ok, that's what I meant, thanks.
SWPadnos: See, you did it again!!!
I'm exploring making my own PCBs, from schematic capture, to gerber file generation I have covered with gEDA, now I need a CAM program to talk to EMC2 correct? Recomendations?
I never could get geda to work
i got mucs pcb to work, ages ago.
it'd always crash on me
plus even when it wasn't crashing I still didn't care for the interface
eagle kicks its ass
pcncx: you didn't ring the bell, so I wondered away. Ok, so does Eagle export g-code or whatever to emc, or do you need a CAM to do it?
I don't mill boards
I don't think it is a very good idea
I'm all about the acid here
pcncx: roger that, I'm not going to, just want to do a proof of concept on it.
if it was the intelligent thing to do I'd think that industry would do it over all the troubles they go through to etch themselves
and they do go through a ton of troubles etching
so no I've never bothered even looking into it
pcncx: understood, that's one reason I never bothered developing photographs, anyway, got to run, 73
Question, How do you take into account the size of your endmill when running a gcode file? Do you do it in the CAD, the CAM, or EMC ?
see g40 g41 and g42
sheetcam creates a radius compensated path for inside and outside
I'm using LazyCAM at the moment.. only one I've found that I can stand to use..
never used it sry
is there a way to default my machine to G20 with Inches specified, even though It's a mm machine? I hate having to modify the gcode everytime.
can't you calculate your lead pitch in inches?
yea. that's all good.. Everytime I open up a new file though.. (was created using inches) the machine defaults to mm
so, everything is tiny.
I would rather not have to run stepconf again.. I've made other mods that it'll nuke.
copy your config then run it
then diff -y the files
ha ha I am running my motor now
gaah why isnt there any bare bone motherboards anymore :/
without soundcard, graphic card etc that isnt realy needed in some cases :/
mrsunshine: there are. need to ask Asus directly. I don't think the 'general consumer' knows what bare bones means... they want everything in one package.
now that's a good dream
but if you call a place, ask for level 2 tech support (due to an ongoing/recurring issue...blah blah) and you should be able to bypass the 'reboot your system' guy ;)
but what if 2 is lower than 1?
you know, like "first rate" and "second rate"
does anyone here know if the installer for EMC2 (ubuntu 10.04) has the ability to install on a computer that already has windows on it? In other words, does it let you resize the partition and set up GRUB. My friend wants to do the install on his own, but he just put windows on the computer and wants to dual boot. Do I tell him to start over? or Should the disc handle it?
it's a normal ubuntu installation
i missed the resize part, i doubt it'll shrink ntfs partition if that's what you mean
i feel like I remember ubuntu being able to do that
but i might be confusing it w/ that strange "on a file on your drive" install thing
i usually install debian so i don't know ubuntu install, i only installed emc2 few days ago and it looked like a stock ubuntu installation
"If using Windows XP (or other older Windows OS), you can use the GParted partition manager to shrink the Windows partition and thereby leave free space on the hard drive for the Ubuntu partition. "
i'd backup the stuff on that ntfs ;-)
elmo40, know of any models of their that is barebone? :)
try this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131242R
no audio. minimal onboard video. might have a parallel pin somewhere :P
"might have" :P
I can't see
SadMan, its backed up
I don't see a parallel port, but the PCI slots allow for a lot of expansion ...
well, no need to back up, its just a windows install, which only equates to time
but, GParted will resize
ntfs that is
there are some SuperMicro boards that have onboard Matrox G200 (!) chips, I bet with separate memory
would be neat with mobo with 2 parports by default + extension parports
to be able to input/output as much stuff as posible
or a pci slot for my parport card :P
good luck with that. it's hard enough to find a single parallel port
SWPadnos, mm =)
I have never in 20 years seen a pc motherboard with two parallel ports built in
btw, is it posible to run emc without graphical interface (X) ?
even when parallel was king (used in place of scsi for all sorts of peripherals)
as its X etc that slows down computers like hell
yeah, me either (and it's been almost 30 years :) )
mrsunshine: anything is possible
mrsunshine, there are several options, in various staes of support
keystick and emcrsh come to mind
you could almost run emc with just halui
(I think you can do everything but load a program)
yep, other than file selection (and maybe other stuff)
typing mdi commands becomes difficult
we need a HAL string type ;)
I guess there's a reason for user interfaces: interfacing with the user
but I question the basic premise. EMC runs fine with X since the motion-generating parts run in realtime.
well iwant something like that dos cnc interface some mills use ive seen =)
with basic inputs, homing etc
well, since hardware drivers can cause RT burps, and user programs use hardware drivers (indirectly), and X uses hardware somewhat more directly, it seems there can be an effect
which is why we tell people to exercise their computers while the test is running. if there were no effect, that advice wouldn't be needed
btw, there are plenty of pci cards out there w/ 2x LPT ports
can't just use an LCD screen with input capabilities? and have it display basic things like the current line of code and next one coming, location? another LCD output for speed and feed?
[15:43:07] <Tired_2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flajZMff28U
there is emclcd, but that doesn't solve the somewhat more difficult problem of actually typing in or otherwise selecting a file to load
ya. arduino comes to mind ;)
why do you want to go back in time though?
x is good
use it :P
vnc in if you need to
I just dont get the point when you can find lcd monitors cheap now
does it reduce the latency? I have 3.8M nS latency on my system
test it both ways
run the test script (forgot the name)
SWPadnos: yes, some hardware has problems, but the premise "X slows down machines like hell so it's better to not use X" is flawed.
and then run the test again with X running
just avoid the nvidia card driver thing
dont know much about it, but its documented on the emc2 site
there are probably thousands of machines running EMC fine using X GUIs
cradek, yes, agreed. if you assume that "slow down" means "make respond to the user slower", vs "make respond to interrupts slower" (which is probably a good assumption)
I'd say 99.9% are :)
I have no idea what you are (\___/)
talking about, but here's a (='.'=)
pancake eating bunny!!! (")_(")
Tired_2: (don't know if this was answered.. ) but - the ubuntu livecd will resize the windows partition and install side by side. - I have done this on an xp and windows 7 machine.
isn't keystick? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gui_keystick.html#KEYSTICK
skunkworks: isn't keystick what?
I suppose you need some form of x to make it work?
It's text, someone just windowed it I suspect to get a scrncap
No, pure terminal =)
it is a console program, which could be run over ssh and locally without X
you dont have to even have x installed
But SWPadnos suggestion of dual does run kinda funkish.
or it did the last time I tried =)
dual keysticks running. one local, one remote.
oh, those were options, not a suggestion for simultaneous use :)
No, I've down that is what I'm saying. and it runs funkish.
It's an issue with keystick itself and console refresh.
and possibly with NML sequence numbers
anyway, now that you're here, I'm headed out :)
(you always do that!)
I used keystick in the emc1 days and it worked ok then
No idea. I tried it for a little bit, thought it might have been the ssh overheard, then tried xfwd too. same results.
it was never updated to support ABC axes, and certainly never since for anything else, either
or was that xopen *shrug*
I liked the fact that keystick removed all the x overhead
I didn't have to deal with what video card I had in the machine.
but still had local control. and remote GUI for the fancier stuff
how many floppies must be sacrificed before you change the drive? took 3 for me :/
kb5uej is now known as craigw76_
craigw76_ is now known as techcaw
techcaw is now known as kb5uej
mighty quiet around here tonight
its 10:15 AM here ;-P