theorb is now known as theorbtwo
pcw_home, it looks like mesanet.com is down
monoprice.com is ridiculously cheap! you sure the cables don't vaporize in 3 months SWPadnos?
yep, I've been using their cables for my home theater for a year or two, and we also use their XLR cables as the main trigger signal for the camera array
oh, and we also have about 200 of their network cables, which have all been flawless
wow. Are you using their cheapest HDMI cables? or the better ones?
the better onces
26awg or 24?
well, I have an HH-24NCL2-05E(K) here, so I bet it's 24 AWG
mozmck: have you seen deal extreme?
Valen: I think I've been there, but I don't remember.
oh, this is item # 4966
[00:37:41] <Valen> http://www.dealextreme.com/
so yes, it's 24AWG, premium, high speed certified
I see. I wonder how much difference there really is...
if its digital its either going to be good enough or crap
no idea, but I figured for $3, I can brag about it :)
no, that's not true
digital is still analog, especially at high speed
(no, I don't go for the oxygen-free copper bi-wired headphone crap, that's stupid)
your not one of these "my monster audio $350 super premium dvi cable makes the colours better on my tv" people are you
(no, I don't go for the oxygen-free copper bi-wired headphone crap, that's stupid)
heh, good. What about the $200 disk you set on top your CD player to get fantasticly better sound?
so its digital, its either good enough or its crap
IE it works or you get errors
a crappy cable will not necessarily cause you to lose the picture entirely, it may just cause noise to show up, or in the case of DTV, you can get blocks that don't move when they should, etc
sure, it's just a matter of what the errors mean in the end
digital degrades differently from analog, that's the real difference
in DVI noise shows up as speckle generally
all I'm saying if the cable is good enough that the BER is basically insignificant then its "good enough"
yes, that's true
speckle or block errors of some sort
if its bad enough that you can notice errors theres generally going to be assloads
DVI/hdmi is uncompressed so your not going to see mpeg block errors
well, DVI and HDMI don't use an error correcting code, only an error detecting code
unless the processor in your tv is doing weird mangling of the signal
yeah, that's true
I wasn't aware they even did error detecting
the 8b/10b code is slightly error detecting
in that there are invalid codes, which can be detected
not that the TV can do anything about it
its a parity thing then?
not really. they just use 10 bits on the wire for each 8 bits of data
so there are extra codes, some of which are invalid and others which are used for sync or something
I think there's a wikipedia page on it
doesn't really matter
$3 hdmi cables do the same job as $250
well I spose they arent as good at getting money out of peoples pocket
unless they're shit
unless they are actually a bit of shoelace
the ones at Monoprie are $3.75 or $6.50, for the "crap" and "certified" versions, respectively
ahh the 10 bit thing is a line encoding, to reduce transitions
so even the good ones are about 1/5 the cost of whatever they have at Best Buy
not actually error corection
yeah, right. also keeps the average level at 50%
without using Manchester or NRZ coding
its an "error reducing coding"
doesn't actually do anything other than try to minimise errors due to the real world sucking
it is interesting to note that single-link DVI actually transmits at 1.65 Gbps per color, plus the control lines
the data rate is immense
which (at 10 bits/byte) is actually 495 MBytes/second
yeah, it is
and that's one link, DL is double
and a dual-link card must support the full 165 Mpixel/s rate on a single link, since the standard requires the card to use 1 link up to 165 Mpix/s, and only to turn on the second link above that
my TV is unusually compliant I think
it'll accept 1080P at 74.9 FPS but not 75 (or whatever the cutoff is)
the TV only has to support whatever data rate is needed by its highest refresh rate
need to do all sorts of triming of blanking intervals and such like to get it to fit
I don't think you need blanking with DVI/HDMI
front porch and back porch and a few other areas are in it
there's a separate control channel for sync
yeah, there's a little bit of addressing time or something
I wanted to get 75 or something so that it would handle all the different frame rates well
ah, 3x25 for PAL?
and some other multiple for NTSC stuff as well
something like that
or 60 (for 2x30)
72 would be for film
the latest myth from avenard has patches in it to change the frame rate to match the source material anyway so I don't bother any more ;->
huh, cool. I hadn't heard about him
i always spell his name wrong
also has vdpau integrated etc
[00:57:18] <Valen> http://avenard.com/media/Home.html
yeah, I found it. You had it spelled right :)
first time for everything
[01:01:03] <Valen> http://www.ritsumei.ac.jp/~akitaoka/rotsnake.gif
is cool btw
[01:03:19] <Valen> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.24546
including shipping ;->
whoops. forgot to take pics; too busy salvaging motorontrollers.
anyone here using a udn2916b to drive their motors?
hal/ classicladder questions... anybody around?
hi, where to get EMC 2.4.5 ?
willeo6709: always just ask your question - people will really give you a hard time if you ask to ask
qq-: there are lots of ways to get it - can you ask a more specific question?
something as emc2_2.4.5.tar.gz
sourceforge.net propose only _2.4.4
you can get a tarball from the git server, git.linuxcnc.org
by the tag v2.4.5, click "commit" then on the release commit click "snapshot"
ok, i can throw stuff on the screen, but having a hard time getting it to mean anything
i can throw %I001 on but can't label it in the classicladdeer window
in fanuc they have a cross reference list
in automation direct you just type it on the screen
in allen bradly different but similar to automation direct.
when a block is selected, you can name it by typing in the Variable field
type something like %I1
or do i need to do a whole bunch of typing and connect halpins in a halfile to get it to make sense before the ladder?
(in the Properties window)
tried the variable window but it does not remember
cradek, ah , thanks , forgeted command 'commit'
willeo6709: you can make a ladder without hooking the classicladder pins to anything yet, but to control anything real, you have to wire up the ladder IO in hal to whatever you need
willeo6709: do you have an empty ladder? we can go through making a rung together
yes, empty ladder
if you click Modify do you get a red grid?
yes, red grid lines on side
no contact on left coil on right
%I0 showing properties box up
ok click -||- and then click in the top leftmost red square
properties shows %I0 for Variable?
blank box with apply at bottom
ok type %I0 in Variable, click Apply
%i0 is showing as variable
ok change it to %I0
can I get a human readable name to show on screen too?
(needs to be uppercase)
yes but stay with me
now click the -> and click the second red square (just right of the contact) and it will fill in the line all the way across
LINE ALL THE WAY ACROSS ALREADY
ok now click Ok on the Editor window
TO A NO COIL ON OTHER SIDE %Q0
WHY ARE WE YELLING? haha
when you click Ok the red grid will disappear and you should still have the rung -||--------()-
vars showing, no human readbable
rung still here
ok check the box at the top "Display symbols"
it is checked
click Symbols at the bottom
at %I0 click and fill in "Symbol name" with the human readable name you want
**note** when you later connect classicladder.0.in-00 to a hal signal that signal's name will also show in this window! very handy!
you can also name %Q0 here
ok now you have a rung. click save
ok now you have a rung. click save
and I need to sleep with the hal manual to figure out how to network the pins to actual io
now the fun part
pull up a new shell
a new what?
* juri_ facepalms.
at the halcmd: prompt?
show pin classicladder.0
notice in-00 and out-00 are both FALSE
we're going to turn on the input to your rung
setp classicladder.0.in-00 true
(setp means "set pin")
you with me?
worked once got syntax right
the rung turned blue, right?
ok, why would I do this?
rung turned purplish
show pin classicladder.0
now notice out-00 is TRUE
ok, thats how you force io
we set in-00 (the contact), out-00 turns true (the coil) - that is your rung's output
you'll hook in-00 and out-00 to your hardware etc.
thru hal right?
how do I tell which board is which since I have 4 7i37ta's
the 7i33ta's should be fairly simple
but still 4 ax on one 1 ax on another
look in dmesg and find the pin numbers assigned to the various 5i20 plugs, and then look at the 7i37 manual
(it can be a little tedious to figure out)
and i can turn on a io and probe it wth a dvom to id it then
you can even do that with setp
it's not quite that simple though, since the outputs on the 7i33 are isolated from each other
and this concludes our tour of classicladder!
and are MOSFETs, not push/pull
swp say that again
the outputs from the card won't switch between 0V and 5V like a logic output, they're like switches
I bet you can use continuity test on your meter
yeah, continuity test should work
so if no voltage they switch ground? how do they do anything if no voltage present when on?
also beware it'll only work one way
or use a pull-up, like a 9V battery (or a few AA's) with a 10k resistor
I make them inputs then touch em with a wire
they're switches, each isolated from each other
to find them
no, I think they're MOSFETS, so they should work in either direction
pretty sure they don't
what the ? is a mosfet mean?
(but I have no idea what they are)
they should, I think the manual says you can use them as push-pull outputs to drive motors
I think they even have LEDs that light if you hook them backward
heh, it's a kind of transistor that will pass current in both directions
mosfet has a diode one way, and the switch the other
maybe I'm thinking of the wrong board number ;)
I believe the 7i33 is just pulldown
the 7i37 is the 16 in/8 out I/O card
7i33 is 4x servo interface
(just so we all know :) )
ok, head full of gcode
SWPadnos: it's not me, it's you (I checked the manual)
can't recall mesa numbers yet
okie dokie then
i'm only half here anyway lol
willeo, me either, and I've probably got one of each here (or more)
trying to get a job at a school
wellll I retract my comment - I don't know if they only conduct one way. I can't tell from the manual.
OBITx+ pins are the MOSFET drain connections and the OBITx- pins are the MOSFET
ok, on a encoder vector spindle, I set it up like an axis in hal?
^ means pretty much nothing to me
from the description: "All output drivers are low saturation voltage MOSFETS for low power dissipation. Each of the 8 output switches is isolated from the others, allowing high side, low side, push-pull and other output switch configurations."
in te control now it shows a c axis when tapping and such...
I guess all that could be done with a single switching polarity
SWPadnos: why do you need to use two of them to switch AC?
SWPadnos: yeah (and that's the normal thing on opto22)
willeo: emc doesn't use a C axis to tap, it just uses encoder feedback and a free-running spindle
so no spindle setup for what I have?
well I wouldn't say that
you need to get spindle position into the motion controller, but not as an axis
you need an encoder with index that's scaled so each rev of the spindle increases the encoder position by 1.0
it goes to motion.spindle-revs
that in documentation somewhere?
hmm. I could have sworn that MOSFETs were bipolar, but maybe that was only a particular type of output switch that happened to use MOSFETs (like the old IR(?) "BOSFET")
that's why I mostly do software :)
BJT's are bipolar ;->
ok, pleanty for tonight anyway.....
whens the wichita thing?
nov 12 - whenever
might have to try and make it to that
with the linux box and some hardware
so to set up in hal for io I use net or setp?
no machines under 3 tons allowed :)
or both with an addf
Power MOSFETs have a inherent diode from source to drain so only work one way
(well they work the other way up tp .6V or so)
setp is like attaching a test lead to a PLC, net is like connecting a wire
err, maybe that didn't make sense :)
that was the worst explanation ever
HAL is more or less like a schematic system internally. nets are the "wires" used to connect HAL components together inside the PC
so you have to know electronics to use HAL :)
pcw_home: in the opto22 manuals it shows hookup (+v ... switch ... +input -input ... gnd) instead of talking about sources and drains. I would find that easier to understand in the 7i37 manual
pcw_home, is it possible to get a 1.5MGate 3x20?
(so it works with webpack)
Yes if they are in stock (dont know if they are or not))
ok. I only see the -1 and -2 on the price list, so that's all I asked about
then again, webpack will probably support the 2M parts by the time I have any time to mess with making my own configs ;)
You can also use the ISE eval...
oh yeah, that's true
and a little birdie told me how to make unsupported chips work with webpack too :)
at least in the v6 or v7 days
We had interesting problems with 12.3
Spartan6 compiles tossing lots of logic
where get something as emc2_2.4.5.tar.gz ? i use git but further i can't get
I thought I already answered that - where are you stuck?
in git commands ..
but I told you where to click to download the tarball you want
on the website http://git.linuxcnc.org/
not using git
cradek, i'm in cli , no click here
then there's probably a git tarball command :)
[02:23:54] <SWPadnos> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commit;h=b5bb7beec1b342eefad29d112f3ab5d77129845f
qq-, cli for what?
and how to "get" it ?
use the URL above, and either a browser or curl or wget to actually fetch it
I know what CLI means, I'm wondering how you would get a tarball from SourceForge with one, but can't access our gitweb server
cradek: I'll look at making simple hookup drawings for the 7I37 (and others)
pcw_home: cool, thanks
SWPadnos, i can access gitweb server , ... but can't get emc2_2.4.5.tar.gz
pcw_home, do you sell the PCIE cables for the 7i68?
We will also have a 7I37 variant with input and output commons to simplify wiring
pcw_home: on both my machines the switches were set up to switch the high side, and the proxes act as low side, so there are two different hookups - I don't know if this is universal but it might be close
qq use the URL above, that will get you 2.4.5
Yes we sell them but Digikey has them as well
what's the "last mile" (last inch? :) ) on that?
ie, how do you actually connect it to a PCIe slot on the PC motherboard?
Yes the 7I37COM has high side common for outputs and low side common for inputs I think this is fairly standard
hmmm. that is pretty standard, unless you're in an industrial I/O environment
there, they want the outputs to source current, so an accidentally grounded wire doesn't activate something it shouldn't
I was probably unclear, but I meant there are two different hookups to inputs, depending on whether they are physical switches or proxes
for a physical switch, you hook the opto up switch->ground. for the prox you do +v->prox (I think)
it's been a while and I have to check it every time
you can get sinking or sourcing prox switches
we pretty much use all sinking inputs for everything except safety circuits
the 3X20 is PCIE cable connected theres a 1 lane motherboard if you want it in a slot, theres a 6I71 slot/cable interface
so you have motherboard slot --> 6i71 --> cable 3X20
aha - the 6I71 is what I need
heh, just found that :)
ot motherboard -> 6i71 -> cable -> 3x20 -> 7i68, if you actually want the I/O headers, right?
is this the cable: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=WM1167-ND
(the 3m one anyway)
ok, cool now I can place the order :)
oh, are there hostmot2 bitfiles for the 3x20?
Yep thats a 3M one anyway
for the 2M FPGA even? :)
so i do a net %I0 => hm2/hm2_5i20.0.IOpin024?
Only if I get a new ISE eval...
or do I use the human readable name?
willeo: more like: net your-signal-name-here classicladder.0.out-00 => hm2_5i20.0.gpio.024
but yeah you have the right idea
pcw_home, heh, ok then
ladder variable name or human readable name?
the ones you can see with halcmd
usually the net is named something meaningful to a human
like classicladder.0.in-00 or classicladder.0.out-00
well crap. that may mean that I have to get the -1 version
but only if I actually want to use it, I guess :)
I know that 48 Stepgens will fit in the 1M version so it has a fair amount of room
but with 144 pins I might need (need!) 72 stepgens
We will have a SP6 version fairly soon Pretty sure SP6 has bigger Webpack supported chips then SP3
Also Ethercat SP6 card is coming along if you want distance but dont need the PCIE bandwidth
telling me gpio pin does not exist even though showing up in hm2.text
well, I'm curious about using that PCIE cable to more or less isolate the computer from the machine (physically, not electrically)
Yep it does that pretty well
willeo, that often means that something is mis-spelled (remember, it is all case sensitive)
and 144 I/Os should be enough for any machine I'm likely to own
it's even enough to have a reasonable number of I/Os for physical panel buttons and indicators
Nice thing about PCIE is that the serial protocol is all hidden
yeah, it's just PCI transactions to the driver AFAIK
the first miner is on his way up \o/
144 FPGA pins is a lot We will have some nicer solutions for I/O expansion fairly soon
yeah, I guess the SPI I/O cards are out of stock or something
I think I asked about those (the 7i49 and 7i50 maybe?)
7I50s are being built, 7I49s still need some analog tweaks before they are released to production
it likes the firstt part but dislikes hm2_5120.gpio.024
ah, ok. I just wanted some of that stuff to play around with. it's the 5i23 and 7i37 that I need
you're missing a .0 in there
and i tried putting hm2/hm2_5i20.gpio.024
halcmd show pin hm2 will show you all the actual pin names
the 0 or 1 is in the code
(if the driver is loaded)
Yes you are missing the card #
you need it in the pin name as well. if you have two cards of the same type, the first is hm2_5i20.0 and the second is hm2_5i20.1
but they may have identical pin names other than that .0 vs .1
SWPadno If you want to evaluate the 7I49, we could probably sample you a proto
wish I had a 7i49 and time machine for my lathe
would have been so nice
that would be great, though I don't have much time for experimentation/evaluation at the moment
toss whatever you want in the box with my order :)
I think the bigger problem with integrating resolver input into EMC is supporting absolute encoders
yeah, that's something I wanted to work on
homing in particular is different
maybe my 50W Yaskawa motors and drives are small enough to bring to Wichita
ok, needed a .in at the end
is that better or easier than just faking an index pulse? I'm not sure I see the point for emc
what other projects use the anything io cards?
willeo, you can get a complete list of pins by loading emc with the mesa driver and classicladder, then use this command in a terminal: halcmd show pin > pinlist.txt
Imagine a gantry system, absolute is much nicer
you can then load pinlist.txt in your editor and copy/paste the names while editing your hal file
hm, true I guess
assuming you're not off more than half a turn - your assumption will make it much worse if so
absolute encoders usually have turns counters as well
(I intend to try to do gantry homing at fest)
which are good until the battery dies
SWPadnos: well not resolvers right?
no, not resolvers
Jymmm? Lots of different uses (Cell phone testing, motion control using SoftDMC, data aquisition..)
unless you use two of them and a really low backlash 4096:1 drive :)
waveform generation for large power supplies
Also there are full span encoders like linear Resolute
No homing at all
I see the point of absolute encoders in general (with turns counters) - I was just wondering specifically about adding special stuff to hal for resolvers and what benefit that would have, instead of just making them look like incr encoders
pcw_home: Glanced at SoftDMC, I'm developmently chalenged =)
Good for brushless servo motors as well
or spindle orient
pcw_home: Make it LOGO based and now we're talkin =)
that's a good point - those are one rev things
you don't need an FPGA for LOGO
SWPadnos: No, I wnat to use logo to control the fpga =)
Well when we started we only had 1K or code space so logo would be a stretch
can't fit that in a GAL
wow, there's an expensive toy: http://sewelldirect.com/ExpressCard-to-PCI-Express-Adapter-Full-Length.asp
The ExpressBox is the solution to improve your laptop features and the way you interact with the world and the World of Warcraft.
you can attach a PCIe video card to your laptop with it :)
obviously the only reason you'd want that is to play WoW
I wonder if the card and cable can be had without the box
for much less $$$
yeah but you need the other end of the cable too
that's what the 7i68 + 3x20 is for
did you just swear at me in hex?
[03:24:41] <SWPadnos> http://mesanet.com/
under Anything I/O FPGA cards
SWPadnos: Shhhhh, that's their next line.... Anything I/O ExpressCards
ok, I won't tell
Anything I/O over ethernet
THAT I'd buy.
sounds like a bad idea
use a mini-itx as a smart adapter
wait where am i?
what goes on in #emc?
sometimes people actually discuss things related to the Enhanced Machine Controller, like the topic says
screw the topic
what goes on here?
* pepsi checks the topic
that topic is boring
this was all made with an emc controlled machine -> http://imagebin.ca/view/5efK55Av.html
if you're bored, you don't have to stay
i dont have to stay.. but will i leave?
eill you stay or will you go now?
I used a metalwork machine to make wooden parts for a machine that makes plastic things. the first thing I'll make will probably be another machine that uses papier mache
MattyMatt: you seem to be working backwards
those gears are plastic :(
it seems that way :) but I'm selling these wooden parts to buy more metal
my mill isn't stiff enough to work metal yet
and when I can print plastic, I can make drag chains and coolant hoses and other useful ancillaries
What are those parts for?
I found the answer today to milling plastic with a 4 flute & fast spindle without melting it. a few drops of oil on the tool
you'll find it's the same with metal also
a reprap machine. poor man's stratasys plastic pooping printer
I thought the usual choice was flood or mist :) I never thought a few drops would make such a difference
Sure can! I often just use a oil can and dribble a little oil or coolant manually.
Metal usually often needs more to keep stuff cool.
I'me wondering now if I should have been milling all this wood with linseed oil
probably not. wood doesn't argue with tungsten carbide at 36krpm
I'm still building my first mill. I'm kinda just plodding along, i have no idea what it'll be capable of. its 100% thrown-away scrap. ;)
damn... wrong channel.... tv guide doesnt work on this one!
works for me
11 for me....ncis la
LawrenceG: you like that show?
not as good as original
but keeps me amused
my mill is acting up..... something in spindle drive is getting stiff... could be bearing in motor, idler or spindle
time to get dirty and find out what is going on..... grease may be my friend
cheap china motor is the 1st suspect, the spindle is big roller bearings that have been recently serviced
It would be nice to find it before the smoke leaks out
how is the laser coming?
running spirograph images on chreme brule?
* flyback is embarassed by caprica
then again I didn't watch FAILstar galactica also
first season or two of glactica was ok
then it got all religious and i cbf watching it
I don't mind religion
but this is just crap
melodramatic crap and bad acting
yet another rwason why I won't miss me
I wanna see space ships flying around and blowing stuff up from time to tim
I'm interested in building a relatively inexpensive DIY cnc router for small pcb work... I've been looking at the McWire design, specifically... Any thoughts on this? As for the electronics, what would I need to consider to get this functional with linuxcnc?
jackass did "opteration"
I will now formally accuse you of being a stalker.
lol... I'm afraid I found #emc on my own ;)
as in addition to reprap, I'm interested in pcb fab
perhaps even more...
but at least, the designs I'm most interested in the reprap for will also require custom PCBs ;)
[06:08:03] <flyback> http://www.bgmicro.com/CAP1140.aspx
bet those would be good for smoothing out surges from steppers or servo's
reprap always seems a bit crappy to me
hi guys mb it is bad manners here but did someone manage to run TB6560 board (not "standard" ebay) card under emc2 (2.4.5) ? i can't find correct settings (delays) to run motors. under mach3 it works fine. where i can find any information ? google is a full of questions only :)
pins are configured correctly but motors move or very slowly or don't want to move
Shaeto, I think I remember someone saying read the chip data sheet for that one
well, agree that way is good, thanks will check 6560 datasheets
if you are lucky the result gets written up of the wiki
okay thanks :)
up on the wiki
Shaeto, if you have access to a working Mach setup, you can write down the settings from there and translate them to EMC2 settings
there's no automated way of doing that, but it's not like there are a lot of timing settings to copy
SWPadnos: you're assuming Mach is actually respecting the entered numbers..
yeah, I'm assuming that the numbers actually change something, which I think is a good assumption
I'm sure they change something
but I'm not so sure that if you enter 25nsec, that it'll actually do 25nsec
oh, I don't think they have settings with words like "nsec" :)
msec, usec, whatever
I'd fire it up, but my whole machine would get very slow and unresponsive if I did, so I think I'll pass
remember to start winamp when you do :P
yeah, it's already running ;)
actually, I may have finally uninstalled Mach from this machine. I think I was running out of disk space at some point
* flyback runs
hmm. I wonder how much worse it would actually be to have a basic DOS-like CNC machine that just reads from USB or something (most BIOSes let you treat USB like a hard disk, so you shouldn't need drivers), and you just reboot the thing whenever you want to load a new program
worse than what?
i'd go with freeRTOS or contiki or ecos
I wouldn't bother with dos
with a fast booting PC and a simple OS that doesn't initialize any hardware (more or less), it might be only 3-5 seconds for a reboot
SWPadnos, use one of those
dont' bother with dos
worse than using a full-blown OS like Linux or Windows and trying to get latency down
dos is *CANUCKED*
eh, I've used ecos, it wasn't all that great. use coreboot and run a dedicated machine control kernel as the "OS"
you could do that
coreboot + freeRTOS
long ago, my cnc control was dos booted diskless with a boot rom on the isa network card
it was a 486, iirc
it had networking for loading files, and worked fine
flyback, I guess I'm thinking even more low level than that - more or less use the PC like a microcontroller
SWPadnos: why reboot? just make it able to load files, and maybe have a remote interface...
* flyback still has several 486 based net4501 boards he's going to use for various projects
cradek, yeah, sure. you could use polling on non-critical devices such as network cards
flyback, yes, I've seen that word many times this morning, thank you :)
jeex guys, I haven't even finished my first cup of coffee yet. I didn't say it was a GOOD idea! :)
SWPadnos: have a cup on me :)
ok, will do
mozmck_work, yeah, you're right. there's no need for reboots since it has to be able to load files anyway
I guess I was thinking in appliance mode: plug in stick, hit button, watch machine run
whether the button is a reset button or a keyboard button that tells the software to look at the stick doesn't really matter
yeah. I've thought about something like this for a while. Porting emc2 may take a bit of work though.
yeah, the structure of EMC2 pretty much requires a multitasking OS
I got 5 hrs sleep
(which is what I was trying to avoid, more or less)
I think freeRTOS does that?
freeRTOS will also run on 8 bit mcu's
so instead o f having one big pc etc to run it
yo could have a bunch of stuff
8 bit mcu's for each stepper
and a central cpu and have them work in tandem
well, you need a little more CPU power than the average 8-bitter
yeah I never did a cnc before so mabye I am wrog
I would imagine large portions of emc code could be used though without an OS
yes, a lot of it probably could
it's amazing the power we have these days
I bet something like the LPC1768 would do.
if my head stops decaying i'd love to get into stuff like this
the UI, file handling, and inter-task communications would all be a porting problem though :)
yeah arm owns your "CANUCK"
do you have a problem with Canadians?
well split it
for 12+ yrs on irc
they must pay for their country's acts of terrorism
such as the sci fi series "earth final conflict"
ok. well please leave that out of our discussions here
but there's also "Forever Knight" :)
splitting the problem might be best
or there was anyway
keep EMC on a linux box
yay! forever knight!
My thought was to have all the UI on a PC/laptop/netbook, talking to the embedded controller through ethernet or usb.
but have it tie into some 8 bit mcu's to do the actual stepper motor control
hey now. i'm watching season 3 as we speak. ;)
emc isn't a stepper controller, it can use servos, steppers, or whatever other actuator you can control
but I am saying you get rid of the latency issue by using uc's
tied into it
the actual motion control/planning would be in the embedded micro.
other features of emc (like spindle synchronized motion: threading, CSS, FPR), make independent controllers a liability
That's why all the motion stuff would be in the embedded controller, and just the UI elsewhere.
you only get rid of the step or PWM timing issues, which are easily fixed with relatively inexpensive hardware (Mesa, Pico - $200-ish)
whichi probably have embedded mcu's on them
they have effectively instantaneous communication to the CPU
mozmck_work, same idea really
with the PCI cards, the CPU can read state in a few microseconds, do its calculations, and output commands in another few microseconds
you guys canprobably use this thne
[13:47:47] <flyback> http://www.domenech.org/bt878a-adc/index-e.htm
[13:49:54] <flyback> http://bu3sch.de/joomla/index.php/bt8xx-based-gpio-card
these cards were down to $5 on ebay even before the digital tv switch over
c-media cm109 and up cheap usb sound chips have 8 gpio on them
That's neat! Getting close to 1Gsps into the computer. That could make a pretty decent oscilloscope!
that's interesting, but not likely to be applicable to machine control
did you see an extra zero somewhere?
SWPadnos, well I threw it out there just in case
I saw 448 kHz
(half a megasample, nowhere near a gigasample)
890,000 samples per second
yeah, it's very cool stuff
it looked like you could only do that rate in mono mode
ah, I see it now
oh, I mis-read
still better than 48Khz
hey for around < $10
you can always use it for non realtime bits
measureing heater temps, lights etc
and save your low latency i/o for motors, etc
that's how I look at stuff like this
if it's cheap enough you can always find a use for it
i'm serious :P
it's like "hey i'd like an extra measurement but I can't afford the i/o pin"
stuff like this is good enough
shame my body and mind are decaying so rapidely i'd like to get more into stuff like this
heh. For me, I place a relatively high value on my time, so if it takes me several hours to (a) find the information, (b) compile and install software, and (c) make hardware modifications, then I just spend the money and get what I need :)
no I understand that also :P
I am sure you guys can use these also
[14:04:53] <flyback> http://www.bgmicro.com/2gbindustrialgradecompactflash.aspx
unlike normal cf, these have smart, show write cycles, support software write locking parts of it and have a 5 second emergency erase
* flyback going to order 5
hey, I know billy! I'm probably going to his warehouse on thursday.
billy goat micro? :)
heh, don't know his middle name, but I'm sure that's not it :)
yeah I am going to use cf in some old laptops etc
low write cycle apps
I'll have to get some of those cards.
so I don't have to worry about mech hd failure
in bad enviormnets
I used a cf for a project at work
a linux box that monitors the ups then logs into all the vmware esx, esxi, server, linux and windows native boxes, and san's and nas's and fires off shutdown scripts
What drive would be used to drive one of these? http://www.granitedevices.fi/index.php?q=direct-drive-motors
a sinusoidal AC drive
this thread is interesting (can you drill a better-centered hole on a lathe than on a mill?) http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=43432
I was thinking of attempting to make one of these motors as a project but with smaller dimmensions.
SteveStallings is now known as steves_logging
Interesting article cradek :-)
yes and I admit I don't know the answer yet
we've all drilled wandering holes on the lathe... I wonder if it really is not a real effect.
the oil clearing the s**t in a gun drill is part of the cure,
I always have issues when drilling I must be one of the unlucky one's ;-)
peck often for straightness
archivist, are M3.5 stainless flat-head philips screws readily available there?
I'm having the devil of a time trying to find them on this side of the pond
SWPadnos: have you checked Metric and Multi Standard?
could you grab me a box of them please? :)
JT-Work, err, what's that?
[14:34:56] <JT-Work> http://www.metricmcc.com/
ah, no - never heard of them
I used to get all my metric screws from them...
I don't see a 3.5mm diameter screw though in a flat head
yeah, 3.5x0.6, I'm not sure of the length, but something in the 10-16mm range I think (some standard size I'm sure)
I see them in SHCS
says so right on the data sheet :)
I figured smallparts.com would have them, but they only have zinc/steel
yeah stainless is going to be the hard part
yeah. McMaster has Zinc, MSC has stainless at $1.02 each or thereabouts
too bad, because the 8mm are only $0.13 each
elmo42 is now known as elmo39
If You Don't See a Product, JUST ASK and METRIC & MULTISTANDARD Will Get It for You!
heh. I don't see a lot of products there, their categories don't make a lot of sense to me
this reminds me of trying to buy a (single) ream of A4 paper 15 years ago
A4, how could you use that in this country? :)
the catalogs are a bit strange but they have zillions of screws
Does anyone know of a supplier for thin steel tape or strip that can be used to make motor laminations? I was thinking of using steel tape laminated with thin paper soaked in enamel and then cut cross ways into wedges. does this sound feesable?
I'm just trying to find some category that seems like it might have metric threads in it :)
[14:41:25] <JT-Work> http://www.metricmcc.com/priceCatalog/1-31.htm
their pdf missed out 3.5mm
damn there are some shit websites the the screw area
maybe I should email Bud and tell them I need some extra screws for one of their enclosures
Fastenal has a few 3.5x0.6 with flat heads in the 10-25mm range
do you really want stainless and not just plated
all in Zinc
* archivist stabs the local supplier for not stating sizes stocked
[14:47:08] <L84Supper> http://www.fastenal.com/web/search/products/fasteners/screws/machine-screws/_/N-gj4wcbZjuetev&Nty=0
DigiKey actually has screws (from Hammond, ironically), but they don't say what the material is
SWPadnos: what length do you need?
I can call my local Fastenal guy
its on my speed dial :)
SWPadnos: Could'nt the motor I mention before be driven with a brushless DC drive?
eh, don't bother with that. I can get Zinc from MSC for cheap or stainless for not cheap
Paragon39, it says "Sinusoidal AC" in the description, so I assume it's an AC motor
* archivist has emailed a local to see where the local food factory gets its screws from
maybe I should check in Germany. they actually use metric fro everything :)
hex cap heads might be easier to google for
SWPadnos: what determines the difference between Sinusoidal AC and brushless DC?
all the other screws are countersunk flat philips
Have you tried http://www.screwfix.com/
here in the UK?
Paragon39, they're different kinds of motor. look at Wikipedia or something for detailed descriptions
ever try going into a hardware store in Germany and asking for 3/8-16 nuts and bolts?
to either of you
Paragon39, oh, I misread your question. I think the main difference between BLDC and AC is trapezoidal or sinusoidal excitation
So in theory a direct drive motor could be desingned to use BLDC I guess.
dont they have a US operation now too
hmmm, very close. doesn't look like they have stainless thoguh
well, thanks for the ideas. I guess I should get back to the real work of the day now
RS was stainless
RS was a pan head, not countersunk flat head
oh, I misread the MSC price. it's $50.97/100 and you have to order in 50-packs (I thought it was $50 for a 50-pack, and you had to order 100)
SWPadnos: You could try here they apear to have a good search facility https://www.fastenersclearinghouse.com/fch/main.nsf/fSearch?OpenForm&Start=1&type=R&Cat1=PRM460D65E02814;&Cat2=&Cat3=PRMFA3E628C1315;&Cat4=&Cat5=M3.5&Cat6=&Cat7=
SWPadnos, question did not mention counterskunks <SWPadnos> archivist, are M3.5 stainless flat-head philips screws readily available there?
ah, sorry. I guess I thought it but didn't type it :)
but flat head usually implies countersunk (not pan head)
not in my mind
only in my mind I guess :)
I'll just spend the $25 and get 50 of them from MSC. thanks for all the pointers guys
it's probably like the spindle motor of a hard drive
it's not like a normal brushless dc motor where you just sequence the coils off
you feed it a waveform which wraps around the stator
at least that's how I understand it
flyback: Thanks for the reply. So it has one winding around the stator as opposed to say three windings as in a BLDC motor?
well hd motors have 4 pins but it's not like a normal one
mabye it is and it's just a different explnation
hang on lemme find the docs
* flyback has learned a lot about hard drives doing some data recovery
about to start a project soon I waited 10 yrs
pulling data on 50 old hd's I had lying around for 10 yrs
flyback: Found this http://www.siderealtechnology.com/DirectDriveWorkInProgress.pdf
Brushless, sensorless motors with three connections are in
fact, not DC motors at all. They are actually permanent
magnet synchronous AC, 3-phase motors.
The commutation is done electronically. Three distinct
semi sinusoidal waveforms (not pure sinewave AC) that come in
at different times (or degrees) will causes the rotor to
rotate with the changing (alternating) magnetic fields of
they use back-emf sensing btw so you will need a DSP or DSpic
actually you can use a ARM mcu also with a good sw-dsp routine
if thr motor you are looking at is also sensorless
this is probably better for a spindle app
actuators etc are probably better done with brushless motors with sensors
since they are non-circular rotation
you know what I am trying to say (&##$*&(@(*@
the brain never did great on words to begin with and now it's really bad :P
I believe some of the ARM cortex-m3 chips have dsp instructions now
man I hope I solve the issue with my dual opteron 1u I bought off ebay soon
so I can have a nice stable vm host
I had to install windows 2000 last night so I could configure the bmc card
be nice to have a box I can setup vm's for compiling various items including mabye playing with emc
flyback: Sorry for the delay in replying I was called away from the PC. Thanks for the information. I found this info for Pic 18fxxx http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00899a.pdf
yeah microchip has a bunch of motor control appnotes
for almost every type of motor made
yeah you don't need a dsp if you have the elements of a dsp that are only needed for motor control
[15:49:17] <mozmck_work> http://ics.nxp.com/support/documents/microcontrollers/?scope=LPC1768
There's appnotes and software for BLDC motor control and DSP stuff with the LPC1700 series ARM mcus
yeah I wish more industries were like that
appnotes are great, I haven't done anything yet but they are fun to read
it's like "this is how you made our stuff do cool shit"
As I understand it there are different ways of sensing the phase angle (120 / 60 degree) Using Hall Effect sensors(cheap and well tested) employing an absolute encoder (expensive) or as you mentioned sensing the back EMF from the unused phase (More complicated and the motor has to be turning also prone to interence).
sensorless works fine for some constant spin apps
such as a spindle motor
but when you have micro twitching etc I guess hall effect is the way to go
such as actuators etc
Thanks for the link mozmck_work!
heh it reminds me of ball vs fluid bearings
fluid bearings are the only way to fly for high rpm and overall are cheaper, less wobble and more reliable
but they suck for stuff that constantely stops/starts or doesn't rotate 360 all the time
Not sure how much Im taking on but I really like the idea of attempting to build a direct drive rotary table.
* flyback can't even draw a straight line or figure out how to drill a hole perfectely center :/
which is why my wind turbine has sat around for 5+ yrs
Due to there high torque. Even the small rotary tables can produce around 30Nm (4248 oz-in)!
? Due to their high torque, they produce high torque?
Here is five axis CNC using direct drive rotary tables notice the lower profile. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g4mZ0l6WMc
Check this out folks: http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/BW/
you guys seen some of the air bearings they sell
including bolt on replacements for existing gear
my mind can't handle that
holding up 1000's or even million pound loads
just in air pressure between the shaft and housing
Self exciter air foil bearings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_bearing
[16:27:45] <flyback> http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/10/12/red-bull-cancels-daredevils-plunge-outer-space/
this shit has got to stop
or everything is going to be made, and done in china
someone needs to drop a nuke on the patent, copyright offices as well as several courthouses
[16:29:40] <cradek> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/non+sequitur
* flyback bbl, work
flyback: My sentiments exactly!
The concervitive goverment here in the UK has stated it is going to change the laws to stop ambulance chasing litigation that has become a regular feature in all our lives. What ever happened to the sense of adventure and inovation?
Speaking of non-sequiturs, amazing how fast a rabbit can chew through a vacuum cleaner cord...
I love to watch them eat parsley (starting from the stem end)
they are very efficient at chewing things
Cords are almost as fast...
They are really cute when two start on a parsley stem like Lady&Tramp
So I got out the soldering iron and shrink tubing and forgive them
Here's a story: I was holding an interview some months ago and the chap arrives for his interview along with a person from HR. Well the interview was going well he answered all the unix'y tech questions and I was done. The HR person asked him what are your views on diversity and equality. The chap sat there for what seemed like an age deep in deep, deep thought and then smiled and replied:...
..."Many years ago when I started out, I worked in a distribution center handing out parts. Sometimes we had a limited number of diverse parts, but I made sure I handed them out equally!" What a classic I wanted to give him the job but HR would have none of it!
Paragon39: I would have told her "I think it's fairly rude to even ask and not very diverse nor showing equality."
Very true Jymmm but this was working for a goverment body and I was contractor. I would have been leaving with him!
Beleive it or not we were forced to hire someone who flew in from India specifically doing a round of interviews with various companys. His english was very poor and he was technically weak in the particular field we required but I guess he was cheap. HR had there way and that was that! The same goverment body hired two guys flown in from india to replace me. So much for the open market!
Is this happening in the US workplace too?
I've heard of such things, but not that bad.
if you mean HR asking silly questions, and people from different countries working together, in my experience yes
As far as forcing someone to hold PC views to get a job that is.
Hell, I'm going to start saying that I'm Native American!
I sure haven't seen replacement of people based on their race though
Paragon: we have a torque motor here from a junk direct drive robot arm, instead of being a PM 3 phase motor
it is a variable reluctance step motor (maybe 50 poles or so, about 10" in diameter a 4 inches thick)
I've definitely heard of people getting hired simply based on race when they had no qualifications for the job.
cradek: I don't mean it too come across as a race thing it's more a cost thing to companys!
Paragon39: Let's not go there.
We have somthing called ICT (Inter-Company-Transfer) in the UK. The original idea was sound but like all things it's beaing abused. Companys are setting up holding companys in India, China whereever there is cheap labour. Then they can bring those people over to the UK to work in there main offices while replacing more expensive staff. This is affecting all people born in this country!
pcw_home: Just saw your message. What kind of torque does the motor produce?
Dont know but enough for direct arm drive
Maybe harder to make on a home made basis than a PM 3 phase motor however
hi all there in the USA
I suspect the direct drive CNCs are all for small high precision high spindle speed applications (like linear motors)
cradek: LOL Disapproving Rabbit Eats Parsley
Did you see this ball-worm? http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/BW/
Paragon39: i think there is alot of Force on the Theeth pointed
IchGuckLive: On the pointed teeth?
Heres an interesting take on the ball-worm http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=18191
Paragon39: yes ballscrews live on the amount of target points and i see not many of them an
it s dark in germany qand the moon is shining i go to the Tesescop place to test the new Stepper mount 1
I want to add a feature to my tool changer but I hate to mess with my ladder which has been perfect and bug-free for the year or two since I finished it
Clone your config?
yeah, I know it's obvious :-)
nothing - just whining...
I made a video of my rotary table - whee
[18:58:54] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxgSmr01UQg
straight cut gears I can hear?
it seems like a good table - worm engagement is adjustable for wear
I bought it auction years ago and never used it - who wants a manual rotary table?
It's certainly a large table! :-) What voltage / amps are the motor and drives running?
I have done stuff with a manual but not often
I think the motor says 72v and 4? amp
I forget exactly
No worries just after a ball park figure... Very Nice!
Back soon need to walk the dog!
hope the servo is big enough - it's from a smaller rotary indexer
it seems to have plenty of power (a worm gear does that I suppose)
For sure what with the reduction ration not to mention the work gear takes the stress.
tempting to make another (smaller) cnc rotary that bolts to this one for 5 axis
but work area would be smallish - probably not enough for a 6" vise
* archivist takes bets on how long the 5th waits to get done
I bet it might be a while!
I expect a start on the job in a week or three :)
took me years to collect these parts :-)
maybe if I find something good in the surplus shops while in wichita...
it annoyed me a lot during the period I only had 4
heh, I could bolt this little one to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WCrqqoZkPg
archivist: other than wanting to make gears, it seems like the parts I want are always very simple
escape wheels... you are going to make a mechanical clock one day :)
May I remind the brits that its the midlands model engineer show in a few days
my Z encoder on the lathe is not getting back to the 7i37 or EMC I'm not sure yet... I have 5v at the encoder terminal block
do I need a scope to see the A and B?
if you suspect it's bad, yes, not sure how else to see it - logic probe would work I guess
or a voltmeter if you're really desperate
do you check between A and A with the line
yes check both sides of each channel with respect to ground
or between 0v and the signals?
one scope probe on A, one scope probe on /A, both probe ground leads to ground
the signals should both be alive and be opposite each other
ok, I'll dig out my scope, thanks
cradek: get your thumb out of the video!
yeah, awful video
but it'll be a cool rotary table
archivist: I'm sure the boys from Home & Workshop Machinery there :-) (MES)
archivist: Ooops Will be there...
good day all :) I am in the process of downloading my live cd so I can start working on configuring my cnc lathe I am building. I have been reading tha there is now modbus support in emc2's classic ladder, is the support for serial or TCP/IP as well?
[19:45:20] <Paragon39> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjMJOfCyDaA&feature=related
Guest236: I think modbus happens over serial port - not sure if you're making a distinction or not - can you elaborate on what you want to control?
Paragon39: that's a long end mill
Would'nt want to get bitten by it ;-)
Paragon39: sure is simple to program - looks like everything is radial
cradek: true! Who needs artists these days ;-)
I am sure the robot has enough DOF to do it without the table?
not the reach for the back side I bet
They need a bigger one then :-)
cradek: Good Job on the 5 axix mill BTW. Very impressed :-)
oh the little one? thanks
Yes the Max-NC I think...
Ok don't laugh but... Could one potentialy use a steel flat tape rule for the laminated strator of a motor? http://www.thesitebox.com/Store/Product.aspx?ProductId=112312&src=google-base
best to get the right metal, thats steel motors use soft iron
Do they still use soft iron for laminated strators?
is it because it doesn't need to hardened?
I am looking to add functions that are not realtime sensitive that would run from a plc that talks through Modbus to ClassicLadder . Functions I am thinking of would be coolant on/off, work light on/off, spindle on/off, vac on/off ...all of my stepper control and limit switches will still be through my parallel port card
Paragon39, well its the magnetic properties
be iron v steel
I have a few kg of transformer laminations available
I understand that soft iron produces stronger magnetic force but it heats up due to eddy currents and hysterisis. So the stators are laminated thus producing lots of smaller magnetic forces that combine to make the a total force... or somthing like that... as I understand it.
I am planning on running modbus as serial and my PLC going rs232 is limited to only one device connected to it, but in the future I may ad a Modbus supported VFD that can be networked through ethernet so was wondering if the Modbus tcp/ip connection through ethernet was working or just a future thought
it's only serial as far as I know
Paragon39, yes but it loses its magnetism, steel retains
thanks, I suspected as much... I am still happy with it, as the serial Modbus will do all I need it to right now
hi, i want to use non-english characters (unicode) in emc2 pyvcp panel
is it possible?
Guest236: consider a mesa 7i43 for direct control of everything (using the classicladder plc in emc if necessary) and using the serial port modbus for an automation direct vfd
Guest236: (or 5i20 if you prefer PCI to parallel port)
Guest236: you get the advantage of an excellent hardware step generator, and probably come out cheaper than buying a plc
when i write in the xml file with non-english chars, the emc simply shows blank space
archivist: That makes sense! In fact I read that somewere on my internet travels. Trying to find the material now. Not having much luck :-(
Guest178: that sounds like a font problem
Cradek, thanks for the great suggestions there :) I may do just that when I have $$ to upgrade parts but for now will have to onfigure it with the pieces I have sitting around ;)
Guest178: I don't know the answer for sure, but wrong fonts will do that
am i questioning in the right place?!
I already have the plc sitting around hehe so not buying anything new at the moment ;)
ah I see
can i ask the question anywhere else?
Guest178: maybe someone else will know
i don't know how this IRC thing works!
Guest178: is xml file encoding correct?
The plc is an Idec microsmart pentra, and I program them all the time for my work so I am comfortable with the platform and wanted to learn how to Modbus with it...so this is a good thing to try for me to interface it with EMC2
is it just you that can see my messages
Guest178: cyrillic chars are justfine
or everyone can see me
and it allows me to get extra functions as my Hobbycncpro board doesn't have relay outputs
ok thank you :)
Guest178: check fonts(dunno how) and encoding in pyvcp xml file
I can see you Guest178, I just don't know the answer to your question as I amm new with Emc2
thank you too :)
it seems that
archivist: Motor Stator Material @ Hyperco cost around $100/lb. :-(
works with the low 8 bits of
unicode characters i want to use
are placed with addresses
Paragon39, hmm scrap yard is cheating on me
which means they are 2 byte
can I use images instead of text?
Guest178: you need to use UTF-8 encoding
archivist: Not next time ;-)
can I place simple images that are
Guest178: only with gladevcp is suppose
actually texts in place of labels,etc
Paragon39, I dont think he sell it on separate hence the bad price, he needs educating
I use the UTF-8
but it doesn't work
EMC puts blank space
in place of chars
archivist: Most Laminates are made from silicon steel of about .007 according to this discussion I found. Check the tenth post... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317663
has anyone adapted EMC2 for non-english languages?
Guest178: are you running it from live-cd?
i have installed it
simulator or real?
a 3 axis cnc machine
but i have to change the GUI
language must be changed
and I have to use non-english chars
Guest178: There is some internationalisation, I am not sure how to activate it.
archivist: Now this is interesting material ... Soft Magnetic Composites (SMC mixed with epoxy resin.
Guest178: what system?
I am pretty sure I have seen screenshots of a Cyrilic EMC2
psh: let me check :)
andypugh: i'm pretty sure i'm looking at localized russian version of axis :)
with cyrillic pyvcp labels
btw thanks to all translators :)
can I see them as well?
working out of the box
what is your system?
psha: it 8.04
what emc version?
[20:29:22] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Internationalization
I think that you might find that EMC2 translats itself if you set up the computer right.
psha: 2.3.0 is the emc2 version
I just converted my EMC2 version 2.30 to russian
andypugh: thank you andy, the links seems useful
you did the translation?
how do you write labels in russian
It is just a case of typing (at the command line) export LANG=ru then restarting emc2...
just write russian in the xml file?
LANG seems to be
That part I can't help with, I am afraid.
where is it located?
do you do this while compiling emc2 or
after the installation
I am not sure, I am just messing about :-)
But, if you open a terminal window, then type
You ought to see EMC2 open in Russian
Guest178: lang is only needed to pick correct translation files
unicode characters in pyvcp.xml file are treated independently
LANG is an environment variable, set within the context of the terminal window, so you need to start emc2 from that terminal window to get it to work. I assume you can also set it globally.
Guest178: please check your current locale
open terminal and type 'locale'
thank you i do this right away...
locale don't set anything )
its all en-us-utf-8
may you run small test program?
it's tcl interpreter
and give him two commands
label .test -text "вот здесь нафигачь какой-нибудь UTF-8 текст"
where i can fine fpga channel...
replace text with something you want to see :)
but how can i copy this text from here?
i mean from this chat box?
i need to replace Xilinx XC95108 CPLD with lattice thats some equal
dunno, depends on client
type some UTF-8 string there
ok i found the way
you want to see
ok let me check
i bet you have no cyrillic fonts so this string will fail for you :)
second command is "pack .test"
is there any label in the window?
btw try some latin1 string
to check that my first tcl program is working correct on systems other then debian/testing :D
well i copy/pasted
the command in the comman line whre the % sign is
it just wrote .wish
.wish or .test?
in the next line and did nothing more
you're right :D
and gave you another % prompt?
so tell him 'pack .test'
ok lets go...
i can see the label with russian text in it
utf chars are there ot not?
but i haven't tried
my own chars yet
now try to give you chars
let me do another test
exit from wish and start it again
it doesn't show the chars
just a very small empty window
so we have that it's not emc trouble
how to fix it?
wish is Tk interpreter and emc axis interface just uses it
you have to find how it's possible to set fonts used by Tk
should i add anything to locale
so if i manage to set fonts in tk
i can be hopeful that
things will go right
thank you psha
save this little test as test.tcl
and just run it with wish test.tcl
how to save it? :-p
it'll save you a lot time :)
open you favorite text editor and write two commands you used
ah ok i see :p
[20:53:06] <psha> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/827430/how-do-you-set-the-default-font-for-tk-widgets
maybe this may help you
well I fixed it but don't know what I did... must have been a loose connection down by the encoder terminal block
just pick correct font
thanks for the link
psha: u asked me to
write something in latin?
you wanted to test
so you'll see at least part of the string
latin is not latin language but latin1 encoding :)
do you want me
to test something for you?
i mean you helped me
btw what is your tcl version?
and as an appriciation
i wanted to do a test if you asked me :)
how can i know that?
dpkg -l | grep tcl
it's version 8.4
[20:59:41] <psha> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/tcl
so advice from tk cookbook won't help you
[21:00:00] <psha> http://www.tcl.tk/cgi-bin/tct/tip/145
oh, thats feature request, not cookbook
i'm not a professional programmer
and not very familiar with linux programming
I don't think any of us are :)
(Professional, that is_
i mean i'm nothing at linux actually :))
i have done the electronics part all by myself but this programming part seems tricky
Guest178: tcl is tricky for everyone :)
many X programs allow setting default front with 'xrdb' program and .Xdefaults file
but tk seem not to respect it
look i changed the font
according to what the stackoverflow you gave
and guess what:
i can see my text :D
now i donno how i can changed what happens in emc
i means which files to change
there _must_ be way to set it externally
yes i think so
are EMC axis gui files stored in anywhere
but i see tcl second time in my life so it's not easy to find how it is)
that can be found and changed?
axis is python + tk
not plain tcl
i mean some .tcl files
tcl file is in /usr/share/axis/tcl/axis/tcl
tcl file is in /usr/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl
wow how do you know all these thing ?
youre just great!
i'm professional programmer :D
that's just i was looking for!
thank you psha!
i've managed to change font via xrdb/.Xdefaults
but not found what is program name...
do you i should change the font from there?
do you mean!
i menat :D
thank you 1 million times
i have to go
last try :)
12:45 mid night
place following line
but with correct font
should i change the * signes
~ = $HOME
let me try this
and then run
xrdb ~/.X[file where you placed this line]
so it'll load it
my tk honors theese settings
I'm orders of magnitude slower tahn you
both in typing and
so please wait :D
i think i need some more time to do this
i'm tired to death right now
can i find you here tomorrow?
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-10-13.txt
psha: i can't wait, sorry, this is my email:firstname.lastname@example.org please send me your email address if you want to know the result
thank you again
you can find me here
bye for now
my name is ali
by the way :)
Guest178: you can change your name when you log on if you like
I'm happy i'm not working with tcl...
mozmck, did you ever get HDMI/DVI cables?
or order them anyway
I assume it is something mozmck has been working on :)
seems pretty likely
* jepler just made his wichita fest hotel reservations. yay.
dad hooked up a wide screen monitor to the k&t. it will actually be very nice for developing - lots of horzontal room to put stuff.
me too, yay
SWPadnos: I ordered some last night from monoprice
ok, great. I just closd up your box without the cable :)
did you put a little dog in it?
dont put dog in ...
[21:40:22] <robin_sz> http://xkcd.com/325/
yes, beagleboard and JTAG ICE+cable
*developing -> making the machine work correctly.
heh, skunkworks: we haven't exactly started playing with it yet, but it is in our heads :)
I have noticed his opinion of emc has gotten more favorable. :)
Lots of ideas and not enough time! Hopefully we will start looking at something like that before long.
Yep. One of the next things on my plate is to get all our stuff working in emc, with configs ready to go.
Other things keep getting in the way (like building stuff to ship), but I'm getting things knocked out little at a time.
it will be great to see you guys do it right with free software
I would sure like it.
it's cool that you can put your configs right in the distribution so people can easily upgrade etc
wonder how long things will go on at fest - I only got a room until monday
Build a room?
That CInci is big enough to machine a billet hotel room (or have I got the venue confused)
it's not quite that big! billet bed maybe.
* JT-Hardinge puts the hammer back up now
* JT-Hardinge tries out the new tool touch off...
what was the plan to control motion and access machine IO with EMC on the Beagleboard? What IO on the Beagleboard will be used?
JT-Hardinge: what was the following error issue?
loose wire I think on the Z encoder
never really found anything... the terminal blocks are some weird plug in ones
[22:18:01] <L84Supper> http://email@example.com/msg02502.html
"speeded-up EPP mode transfer for my boards" all that work for parallel?
well crap the following error is back
does anyone know if you can hot plug a 7i33TA card inputs
I don' t know what that means.
pull the plug out while it is on and put it back in
but I don't think that is the problem... I get 1.3v on A and 3.3v on /A to the 0v and the same on B and /B
at the 7i33 card
pcw_home, question about the 3x20. can the same card be used with either a 7i68 or a 6i68? In the photos, it looks like the PCIe connector is missing from the 3x20 when it's mounted on the 7i68
JT-Hardinge, I have hot-plugged various things without it (knowingly) causing damage
that's both on the 7i37 and my analog boards
should I be able to use a meter between 0v and each encoder phase A, /A, B, /B, X and /X and move the encoder and see the voltage change?
that depends on the encoder output
if it's isolated, then you may not be able to see anything
if it's just complementary pairs, then they should alternate between 0 and 5V
you should be able to put a meter between A and /A and see the polarity of the voltage change from +5 to -5 as you move the encoder
regardless of whether it's isolated or not (though the actual voltage may be lower, like 2V or something)
but what is the problem that made you check the voltages?
Z axis following error
the voltage between A and /A stays steady at 3.3v when I move the encoder :/
make sure you aren't turning it too fast. meters are very very slow devices (like a second of averaging)
though it should average to around 0 if you turn it fast :)
just bumping the allen wrench in the end of the ball screw with a 1/4" rod
what's the resolution?
following error is tied to the encoder... but encoder is not usually 1st suspect. can you repeat position if you move slowly?
if I move the screw the dro does not change in Axis
I see no counts on the Z encoder either :/
I took the encoder off and spin the shaft and see the DRO change in Axis
um, is the encoder bone connected to the screw bone?
it was AFAIK
but you would think if slightly loose the drag would spin it somewhat
the machine always tells the truth :(
even with the clamp loose on the coupling it turns the encoder
working fine now... dunno
time to cook chow
is this still true? "if I move the screw the dro does not change in Axis"
now all works for some unknown reason
time 2 eat 4 sure
cooking sausage suprise
my wife loves it... cause I cook it
i avoid any food with the word surprise in it
sausages, potatoes, onion, bell pepper, beef stock
yumm I like that sort of surprise
don't need any spices either
* JT-Hardinge is off to the kitchen