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[00:04:19] <theorb> theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[01:00:57] <morfic> what does a "block processing time" of 9ms translate to in real world usage? (it's listed on a commercial cnc package)
[01:01:07] <morfic> what does a "block processing time" of 9ms translate to in real world usage? (it's listed on a commercial (linux) cnc package)
[01:03:12] <morfic> http://www.fagorautomation.com/_bin/productos.php?id_producto=2&id_nodo=6 8055 is linux based
[01:08:58] <tom3p> http://www.imakenews.com/gefanuc/e_article000735539.cfm?x=b11,0,w block processing time, best kept secret ( told by another seller of cncs ymmv )
[01:30:09] <tom3p> any linux tools to view 'step' files? (ISO 10303-21)
[01:35:59] <tom3p> cool, varicad has a free deb for thier viewer ( i've lost my real varicad for linux on some dead HD years ago :(
[01:37:44] <morfic> nice link tom3p
[01:38:52] <tom3p> seems gCad3D also imports STEP
[01:39:01] <morfic> figured it can't be too bad as 9ms is still over 110 blocks/s then. and we never ran out of speed until we switched our serial speed from 9600baud to 4800baud when driop feeding (we had some misreads while surfacing some hot core box for a pattern)
[01:39:25] <tom3p> morfic more than you ever wanted to know about BPT
[01:39:33] <morfic> yeah
[01:40:07] <morfic> just weird how they all sell coprocessors "to close the position loop" on such prepackaged controls
[01:40:16] <tom3p> try a contour with .010" segments and a high feed, somewhere all systems choke
[01:40:55] <morfic> in case you wonder why i babble about them, Fagor walked in today, quoting DROs for our manual lathes, and the business card mentioned servos and cnc controls, so they get to quote their control....
[01:41:42] <morfic> tom3p: yes, very short (often less than .010" i bet) segments is what flies by on the screen when we surface 3D contours in aluminum coreboxes
[01:46:12] <morfic> annoying to program too, not the roughing, but the finish passes are, um, mostly luck, hope the improvements they made in 2010 are turning out to be usefull, because i would love to have some control over what happens on what geometry
[01:57:39] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/yaxis/tachencoder1.JPG
[01:57:47] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/yaxis/tachencoder2.JPG
[01:57:53] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/yaxis/tachencoder3.JPG
[01:58:01] <morfic> skunkworks: pic1: front focus
[01:58:35] <morfic> skunkworks: that's on that big machine that was in someone's basement?
[01:59:15] <skunkworks> someones basement? one heck of a basement. there is 3 feet of concrete under it ;)
[01:59:45] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCCurrent.JPG
[02:02:26] <skunkworks> morfic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU_O_Z7Vv8c&feature=channel
[02:02:36] <morfic> was thinking of another machine, just recalled reading K&T on ML before
[02:02:54] <morfic> the cahin tool changer sounds familiar too
[02:03:04] <skunkworks> ML?
[02:03:40] <morfic> mailing list
[02:03:49] <skunkworks> ah - ok. that was probably me.
[02:42:31] <L84Supper> anyone ever work with the Techno CNC Servo G-Code Interface?
http://www.techno-isel.com/CNC_Routers/CNC_Interface.htm
[02:53:23] <NTU> NTU is now known as NTU_brb
[07:58:54] <mk0> could there be any problems with wireless keyboards?
[08:03:52] <Jymmm> Like a dead battery when you need to hit ESC, STOP, etc?
[08:04:52] <mk0> nope in signal "well-timing"
[08:05:27] <Jymmm> </sarcasm>
[08:05:32] <mk0> )
[08:05:58] <mk0> just to be sure
[08:15:51] <psha> mk0: ask gamers :)
[08:17:33] <psha> they are very picky about timings
[08:19:50] <mk0> eurica!
[08:21:26] <psha> btw beware that bluetooth keyboards may (theoreticaly) reattach to another bt master device
[08:22:34] <psha> at least i had problems with headset which was taken away from pc by mobile phone :)
[08:33:23] <Valen> mk0: depends on how fine you need your timing?
[08:35:51] <mk0> i meant moving a machine with keyboard. that it won't lose smth (steps etc)
[08:39:33] <Valen> no
[08:39:51] <Valen> provided your machine is set right it would be fine
[08:40:43] <Valen> keyboard just sets the commanded position
[08:40:50] <Valen> EMC then tries to meet it
[08:49:44] <psha> Valen: maybe he has ~1m/s jog speed and want to do precise positioning with kbd :)
[08:50:24] <Valen> if he has a 750M long mill then thats fine ;-P
[09:55:10] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[10:20:44] <jthornton_> jthornton_ is now known as jthornton
[10:44:43] <jthornton_> jthornton_ is now known as jthornton
[12:17:53] <Paragon39_> Hello All, I have a question with regards to the XYZ axis. What is the standard to determine positive and negative movement of a three axis mill? Should the Z axis increment or decrement when it moves towards the table? Should Y inc or dec as it moves away from the front and should X inc or dec as it moves from left to right?
[12:20:16] <archivist> http://www.cncexpo.com/Cartesian.aspx
[12:21:56] <Paragon39_> Thanks archivist ... The right hand rule.... It's been a while since Ive used the mill as it has been in storage and I need to setup EMC once again!
[12:22:01] <archivist> and this is a page often cited for axis rules
http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
[12:22:42] <jthornton> a lot has improved in EMC the last few years, what version are you running
[12:23:02] <archivist> !wench learn right hand rule is
http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
[12:23:03] <the_wench> I have learnt right hand rule is
http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
[12:23:14] <jthornton> archivist: cool
[12:23:33] <Paragon39_> Ive just downloaded 2.4....
http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html Good Spot!
[12:23:44] <archivist> I had to google for it!
[12:23:52] <jthornton> archivist: how do you have the wench repeat it
[12:24:01] <archivist> right hand rule
[12:24:01] <the_wench> http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
[12:24:20] <archivist> or !tell jthornton about right hand rule
[12:24:26] <archivist> !tell jthornton about right hand rule
[12:24:27] <the_wench> jthornton
[12:24:32] <archivist> !tell jthornton about right hand rule
[12:24:33] <the_wench> jthornton
http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/support.html
[12:24:45] <archivist> hmm must trim spaces
[12:24:45] <Paragon39_> I hate it when one looses all there notes... Should of backed up computer!
[12:25:08] <jthornton> cool, I thought you needed something to alert the wench to do it
[12:25:22] <archivist> optional
[12:25:42] <archivist> db
[12:25:43] <the_wench> http://www.wench.archivist.info/index.php?chan=%23emc to see any factoids (select channel if needed)
[12:30:43] <Paragon39_> OK... If looking from the front of the machine. When I home the X and Y it homes to the back right corner of the table then zeros all movements are negative. is this correct?
[12:32:16] <Paragon39_> Ignore that last message as I need to comfirm that on second thought!
[12:40:00] <jthornton_> jthornton_ is now known as jthornton
[13:36:55] <skunkworks> Jymmm: umm - rememeber the music video that I posted yesterday? florence and the machine? Same
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SmxVCM39j4
[13:49:34] <skunkworks> 'a kiss with a fist is better than none' how true.
[13:49:41] <skunkworks> ;:
[13:49:45] <skunkworks> :)
[13:50:46] <atmega> I have a KISS with a CNC'ed Delrin head
[13:55:35] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nxO-yPQesA
[13:59:18] <skunkworks> saw that one too
[14:54:52] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[14:54:57] <SWPadnos> I did something? you must have me confused with someone else
[14:55:00] <MOGLI12> can i use MESA 7I43 inplace of 5I20 or 5i22
[14:55:40] <SWPadnos> yes, but you will have less I/O (2 headers instead of 3 or 4), and you won't be able to run the servo loop as fast (~2 kHz vs ~10 kHz)
[14:56:08] <Jymmm> There ya go, somethign else that can go on the about to be deleted wikipedia page: controller interfaces: parallel, mesa, jon's card, etc
[14:56:13] <SWPadnos> if neither of those matter, then they're more or less interchangeable
[14:56:46] <MOGLI12> does it affect accuracy or speed??
[14:57:05] <Jymmm> mill, lathe, laser, router.
[14:57:27] <JT-Work> does EMC only support the parallel port interface on the 7i43?
[14:58:00] <SWPadnos> yes, though someone recently said they had it working with USB
[14:58:03] <SWPadnos> (on the mailing list)
[14:58:03] <MOGLI12> yes JT-Work, coz 7I43 is USB/LPT and u cant use USB in realtime.. AFAIK
[14:58:12] <Jymmm> Oh, new section to be added to wikipedia: COMPONENTS: HAL, etc
[14:58:19] <JT-Work> that's what I thought
[14:58:31] <MOGLI12> SWPadnos can y ou give me the link for INI and HAL files
[14:58:31] <MOGLI12> ??
[14:58:59] <SWPadnos> I don't have any special links for ini or HAL files for Mesa stuff. everything I know is on the wiki or in the packages
[14:59:01] <JT-Work> just open up the correct config for that card
[15:04:46] <JT-Work> to broach something you just use some tapping fluid on the cutter?
[15:10:44] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broaching_(metalworking)#Process
[15:12:56] <JT-Work> there you go
[15:14:43] <atmega> heh... that article is by the guy what wants to delete the entry?
[15:18:13] <JT-Work> EMC has a reference now :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Machine_Controller
[15:19:53] <JT-Work> and someone has been editing that page :)
[15:20:32] <psha> atmega: no, delete request was placed by Wizard... and page was created by ichudov
[15:21:27] <atmega> oh, the broaching article was the first one listed under his name
[15:30:09] <skunkworks> how do you know it was marked for deletion?
[15:30:22] <SWPadnos> cause it says so in the big box at the top
[15:30:25] <Jymmm> at the top
[15:30:29] <skunkworks> oh - says at the top
[15:30:31] <skunkworks> heh
[15:30:36] <SWPadnos> considered for though, not marked for
[15:30:50] <skunkworks> right
[15:34:55] <archivist> so go comment for keeping on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2010_September_29#Enhanced_Machine_Controller
[15:35:42] <L84Supper> that Wizard has 5 (yes count them ) 5 Barnstars!
[15:36:41] <elmo40> no, not barnstars... that is impossible! I only have 2 shedstars :( Lucky guy.
[15:37:03] <atmega> I had a tentstar, but they took it back
[15:37:05] <psha> JT-Work: some references are here
http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-ZJYC200802046.htm
[15:38:32] <JT-Work> psha: you can add them too
[15:38:55] <psha> JT-Work: i'm a bit ill now to find what are good enough to include in the page :)
[15:39:33] <L84Supper> heh I think I might know who he is
[15:39:43] <JT-Work> who is that?
[15:40:32] <L84Supper> I may have recommended EMC to be used instead of a windows based app that he was trying to get working on a strapping machine
[15:41:36] <L84Supper> small world sometimes
[15:43:43] <archivist> ah a bias detected?
[15:48:51] <psha> JT-Work: added this link, others are availbe through it
[15:49:12] <L84Supper> might be ;) pretty strong coincidence if it's not him
[15:49:57] <JT-Work> what link?
[15:52:42] <psha> JT-Work: to chinese journal
[15:52:52] <psha> in references
[15:53:28] <JT-Work> nope was not me
[15:54:31] <psha> I've added :)
[15:56:03] <JT-Work> * JT-Work is listening to My God atm
[15:56:28] <skunkworks> she talks to you?
[15:56:47] <JT-Work> Jethro Tull
[15:56:57] <skunkworks> thick as a brick?
[15:57:13] <skunkworks> bungle in the jungle?
[15:57:20] <skunkworks> aqualung?
[15:57:33] <JT-Work> aqualung
[15:57:56] <skunkworks> * skunkworks liks Jethro Tull also.
[16:02:41] <JT-Work> * JT-Work is getting kinda good at writing g code by hand :) now
[16:41:16] <Dave911> JT - Jethro Tull coincidence or ?? ;-)
[16:42:00] <JT-Work> ??
[16:42:12] <Dave911> For some reason they don't play enough Jethro Tull on the local radio stations much any longer .... I don't get that...
[16:42:36] <skunkworks> too old
[16:42:57] <skunkworks> everthing is shifting. now the 80's are considered classic rock :)
[16:43:05] <Dave911> No way ..... not possible ... I reject that notion .....
[16:43:17] <skunkworks> * skunkworks likes the 80's also
[16:43:36] <alSMT> I resemble that remark
[16:43:39] <JT-Work> I like all music... some noise I don't consider music
[16:44:03] <Dave911> I agree with that ..
[16:47:44] <archivist> 1980's!! Jethro Tull dates from 1967 !! you are older
[16:48:44] <JT-Work> heh, I got my first motorcycle in 1968
[16:49:06] <JT-Work> had to use a dog sled before that
[16:52:54] <archivist> about when I got my first job :) TV and radio repair apprentice
[16:54:57] <JT-Work> my first real job was a service station attendant
[16:55:43] <archivist> £4 a weeks wages and mother wanted most of it!!
[16:56:30] <JT-Work> I kept getting fired when they found out I was under age to be hired lol
[17:01:53] <JT-Work> $1.75 per hour was the minimum wage back then
[17:01:54] <archivist> I got thrown out at Rolls Royce for being under age too, the co I was at asked if I wanted to do some contract wiring there.
[17:02:30] <archivist> must be 18+ to be on RR site
[17:03:04] <JT-Work> * JT-Work heads to the other shop now
[17:10:00] <awallin> hrm, emc wikipedia article is now suggested for deletion...
[17:10:21] <atmega> really?
[17:11:40] <awallin> I guess there are wikipedia-police who patrol the new pages and kill everything that doesn't look "good"
[17:11:45] <awallin> for some definition of "good"
[17:13:12] <awallin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Enhanced_Machine_Controller
[17:27:06] <awallin> is this still available somewhere:
http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc/doc/segmentqueue.pdf
[17:27:06] <awallin> ??
[17:45:53] <elmo40> how can that guy say it is an unremarkable software package?
[17:46:57] <atmega> perhaps he is really an ArtSoft person
[17:47:12] <awallin> just a wikipedia police I think...
[17:49:10] <elmo40> you see the list of article to be deleted?
[17:49:44] <awallin> no...
[17:50:24] <elmo40> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Software
[17:50:27] <elmo40> emc is top of the list
[17:51:26] <WalterN> lol
[17:52:32] <awallin> this one has todays deletions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2010_September_29
[17:52:43] <awallin> mostly pages for persons
[17:56:10] <alex_joni> awallin: the cvs is still at sourceforge
[17:56:21] <alex_joni> and there is a git import of emc1 cvs somewhere
[17:57:03] <awallin> alex_joni: ok, I found the segmentqueue thesis, but it does not mention EMC. I remember there was a book chapter, but was it ever implemented/tested on EMC or EMC2?
[17:57:40] <alex_joni> it was in emc1, but afaik never worked right
[17:58:22] <alex_joni> awallin:
http://emc.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/emc/emc/src/emcmot/emcsegmot.c?view=log
[17:59:47] <awallin> thanks, I found the book chapter also on /doc over there
[18:03:03] <awallin> anyone know what book that is?
[18:03:16] <awallin> this one:
http://emc.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/emc/emc/doc/segmentqueue.pdf?view=log
[18:07:10] <awallin> this is a lead:
http://www.rogierblom.nl/research/Short_bio.html
[18:19:58] <awallin> apparently the Blom paper should be something like "Design and development of a real time trajectory planner for the Enhanced Machine Controller" but I can't find it on the interwebs...
[18:32:39] <archivist> references section is coming along nicely..keep it up :)
[18:42:30] <elmo40> that WIzard191 guy who says EMC2 should be removed claims to have a BS in Mechanical Engineering.
[18:42:34] <elmo40> anyone see his bio?
[18:42:41] <JT-Hardinge> no
[18:42:53] <elmo40> ..."working on top secret strapping machines."
[18:43:08] <elmo40> top secret strapping machines?
[18:43:10] <elmo40> what a loser
[18:43:24] <JT-Hardinge> nuclear strapping machines?
[18:43:37] <JT-Hardinge> those went out with the cold war
[18:44:03] <Jymmm> Come on, the article sucks. Quit bitching about who/what wants it deleted and fix the damn thing! I'd delete it too with only 2 paragraphs.
[18:44:18] <Jymmm> That's ANY article
[18:44:45] <JT-Hardinge> has it been up a week yet?
[18:45:06] <awallin> one day I think
[18:45:59] <JT-Hardinge> ya think he jumped the gun just a bit on wanting to delete it?
[18:46:42] <Jymmm> Well, I think wiipedia expects a full edition, not a rough draft.
[18:47:34] <JT-Hardinge> then they are too dam picky lol
[18:47:55] <WalterN> talking about wikipedia reminds me of something I need to do..
[18:48:10] <JT-Hardinge> pee?
[18:49:16] <WalterN> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Eratosthenes
[18:49:24] <WalterN> the first part is just false
[18:49:36] <WalterN> "It works efficiently for the smaller primes (below 10 million)."
[18:51:30] <WalterN> I wrote a little program that is very effecient and goes up to 1,000,000,000 using that algorithm
[18:51:41] <WalterN> efficient*
[18:53:37] <WalterN> 10billion it starts to use lots of memory
[18:53:59] <awallin> I've been adding references to the emc wikipedia page. What appears to have happened is that something developed by NIST, and maybe GM, in the 1990s is now being widely used in aisa and the eastern block countries for research and development. I guess those countries should than the US taxpayers :)
[18:54:10] <awallin> Asia
[18:54:46] <SWPadnos> NIST developed it, and used machines (a K&T, IIRC) at GM for testing
[18:55:18] <SWPadnos> they (NIST) also did some stuff for the navy, with cable-operated platforms (think ship-painting)
[18:55:51] <SWPadnos> has anyone booted 6.06-based EMC on an atom board
[18:55:57] <SWPadnos> ?
[18:58:34] <awallin> SWPadnos: it seems GM and K&T and the Navy have been very quiet about this - the interwebs do not contain a lot of pdf about these things
[18:59:17] <SWPadnos> I don't think there's a lot of information anywhere other than the original NIST pages (hopefully still archived somewhere at NIST) and the linuxcnc.org pages (and their histories)
[19:00:05] <SWPadnos> there have been several articles in "Home Shop Machinist" / "Digital Machinist" that mention EMC/EMC2
[19:01:52] <SWPadnos> there are some users groups/forums that have been relatively active in the past. I think Alex is on one in Germany from time to time
[19:02:06] <SWPadnos> and loads of mentions on the likes of cnczone
[19:09:52] <alex_joni> awallin: search for robocrane
[19:09:57] <alex_joni> a lot of references pop up
[19:10:18] <alex_joni> including
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocrane
[19:10:36] <alex_joni> now robocrane is a project by it's own, but it's based on emc
[19:13:27] <awallin> the Chinese do surprising things, for example:
http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-SDJI200905037.htm
[19:19:08] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ping?
[19:19:20] <SWPadnos> aye
[19:21:54] <alex_joni> awallin: that's quite a reference list
[19:22:52] <awallin> yeah, I knew about roughly 3-5 of those before I started digging.
[19:23:16] <awallin> although with some of the new chinese stuff you can not tell how much original research they are doing, or if they are just copying someone else
[19:23:29] <psha> awallin: there are lot of articles in chineese journals, i've posted only one link but there are many
[19:24:09] <awallin> anyway in the academic world EMC and/or EMC2 does seem to have been adopted and can't really be claimed to insignificant if there are 20 papers using it
[19:26:06] <awallin> I wonder what this is:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/7376406nx011415k/
[19:39:17] <archivist> * archivist votes strong keep :)
[19:41:27] <psha> awallin: i'll try tomorrow to fetch this article
[19:41:54] <awallin> ok, let us know if you find something interesting
[19:43:08] <psha> we have some subscriptions at work but don't know if this one is included
[19:47:12] <awallin> it's called "Lin-soft CNC"
[19:47:36] <atmega> does it really exist, or just someone's research project?
[19:48:58] <awallin> Sichuan University, paper from 2008, looks like they took EMC2 and tried to improve on parts of it
[19:50:57] <awallin> there's a lot of this stuff from China where they reinvent themselves stuff that others have done (or so it seems, maybe I'm just skeptical)
http://www.scientific.net/KEM.392-394.482
[19:55:46] <JT-Hardinge> wow someone has been busy on the wikipedia
[20:05:12] <psha> someone use halui.tool.length-offset pins?
[20:07:13] <micges> psha: why you asking?
[20:07:41] <psha> there is typo in halui
[20:07:48] <psha> they are length_offset
[20:08:39] <psha> also there were some messed
[20:08:42] <psha> pins
[20:08:44] <psha> a bit
[20:09:52] <micges> psha: patches please or something
[20:09:59] <awallin> http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-ZHJC201002013.htm it's just shocking....
[20:10:08] <psha> micges: @dev
[20:10:12] <awallin> ofcourse none of this chinese stuff is actually downloadable as pdf
[20:22:43] <Paragon39_> Hello All, Am I right in thinking a G70 / G71 is the same as a G20 / G21 Inch and MM? Trying to setup a postprocessor output.
[20:26:03] <awallin> no 70 or 71 here:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html ?
[20:30:47] <Paragon39_> It appears that EMC2 does not use the G70 / G71 but it appears to be the same as a G20 / G21 according to this
http://nilno.com/cnc/gcodes.html
[20:31:19] <awallin> yes.
[21:33:35] <JT-Hardinge> WOW! my Glacern vise is due in tomorrow :)
[22:36:40] <JT-Hardinge> man, not having a spindle speed override makes it hard to dial in your program
[22:37:35] <skunkworks> why don't you have a spindle speed overrride?
[22:37:47] <skunkworks> or is this the bridgeport?\
[22:43:23] <JT-Hardinge> yea, the BP Discovery
[22:44:12] <JT-Hardinge> I'm cutting some A36 with a pos triangle insert 1.5 diameter cutter and it sucks
[22:44:38] <JT-Hardinge> I'm going to try 125 SFM on the next cut
[22:49:21] <JT-Hardinge> at least the drilling op went fine
[22:49:25] <skunkworks> convert it!
[22:49:28] <skunkworks> ;)
[22:49:47] <JT-Hardinge> as soon as the first belch comes out it is converted!
[22:50:14] <JT-Hardinge> 125 SFM does sound better with that pos face mill
[22:51:01] <JT-Hardinge> 0.001 per tooth for a triangle insert should be ok???
[22:53:48] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge starts to wonder why the MIL is not home yet from her volunteer work at the food bank...
[22:55:15] <JT-Hardinge> ah there she is, she must have went to the store after the FB
[23:06:46] <spasticteapot> Is anyone here familiar with lasers?
[23:06:51] <spasticteapot> Specifically, really, really big ones?
[23:07:26] <skunkworks> used to run a 1kw one.
[23:07:30] <skunkworks> co2
[23:09:04] <spasticteapot> Can you tell me anything about this monstrosity?
[23:09:05] <spasticteapot> http://www.laserresale.com/?fa=app.view&it=5404
[23:09:46] <spasticteapot> It's 25 years old and honestly looks like it was assembled in the 60s...but it's 750 watts for four thousand!
[23:10:35] <skunkworks> heh - not much I can tell you
[23:13:10] <andypugh> Do you have a shark to tie it to the head of?
[23:14:56] <spasticteapot> skunkworks: I'm not entirely sure of what on earth it even is.
[23:17:58] <alex_joni> 750 watt is pretty small for a "really, really big one"
[23:19:20] <spasticteapot> alex_joni: I suspect that's why it's only $4,000.
