theorb is now known as theorbtwo
ries_ is now known as ries
srpski is now known as Dannyboy
on a side note... I think the best episode of this series: http://stargate.mgm.com/view/content/2377/index.html
nots_ is now known as nots
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-09-15.txt
[#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/,
wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
I would think a properly tuned velocity amp would kick a current loop all to heck.
yep that's surprising to me too. But I bet current mode works better than a badly tuned velocity amp, or a velocity amp with a bogus tachometer, etc etc.
did you get the inserts?
Hey.. thanks for those inserts... I tried to privately message you when I got them.. They are excellent..
I think you were moving a machine at the time.. ;-)
How is your new mill doing?
yea, and my internet was flaky and out for quite some time
got everything going except the spindle, I get a alarm when I try and go over 2k rpm or so
I've milled some parts with lower rpm ok
Same here ... Frontier is taking over for Verizon around here and they are really confused ... they cut my DSL connection and when I asked them why ... they didn't know so they turned it back on ????
What kind of alarm?
just says "axis alarm" for everything
not much help...
I burned up the coolant pump and got an "axis alarm"
seems it only runs about 60 seconds out of water
I would have thought the controls would be better than that..
Do you have manuals for it?
yes I do
Does it fault out even if you keep the velocities (not spindle) low?
Does the alarm shut down the spindle?
no, I can do a 0-1500 and ramp it up by 200 up to 2800
it shuts everything down
So you can do whatever you want as long as the spindle is below 1500 rpm or so?
Sounds like the spindle drive itself is shutting things down -- perhaps... I wonder what wires run between the spindle drive and the controls??
yea, it has a 50 pin ribbon cable from all the drives, simodrive 611
Oh 611s.. I'm somewhat familiar with those ... good drives..
how picky are they with a phase converter?
The 611 has a lot of signals and interlocking back to the controls...
Oh.. I forgot you are using a phase converter...
Not too picky.. from my experience. I ran a 611U in my shop off my phase converter without problems.. The U drive is slightly different than the 611
this is an analog drive
You might want to try twisting the phases on your drive connection to your mill.
I don't understand what you mean
IE, try different combinations of the wires... The 611 picks it control voltage off two of the phases I believe
On a phase converter ( at least mine ) the phases are not perfectly balanced
The two from the power company are clean of course ... the made up phase is pretty sloppy
atm, that one is 10v low on one leg but with a little work I can get it down to 5v like the one here in this shop
1-2=248, 2-3=239, 1-3=248
Come to think of it... on that 611U app that I did, I put a three phase transformer after my phase converter to bump the voltage to the 460 volt range and then I tied the drive into that...
That is pretty good for voltage balance . what do you have for currents? I wonder how well balanced those are??
I've not tested current yet
You might just want to try swapping phases a couple of times and see if the problem doesn't go away or get worse..
does the three phase transformer smooth it out?
I think we have one here somewhere
That is a pretty easy thing to try..
I think the transformer helps to clean everything up..
I'll drag it out and bring it to the other shop and try that out
I'd really like to get 3 phase in my shop ... I need to talk to the power company about that ... I have three phase at the street..
Something else .... do you know anyone with a big 3 phase generator that you can borrow?
no, I have to run now back to the other shop for a bit before my other brother John leaves for Scout Camp
Are you all done with your building expansion.. ok good luck..
I'll talk to you in a bit
still digging in the dirt lol
sounds good ..
cradek: I think I should just give you access to my emc and have you tune from there. :) what do you think? we have over travel limits - what could go wrong? ;)
he could mill your clamps away :)
no pallet on the machine at the moment :)
skunkworks: you saw stuart has just the same setup (and scaling problems) you had?
Like I say - After setting the scaling right and adjusting the gain of the amp at low speed - the machine settled right down. (for inital testing)
people are sure anxious to throw out velocity mode - I think it's mostly a matter of not understanding how it's supposed to work
I still need to actually go through and tune it correctly.
yeah that .0001 inch overshoot is pretty lousy
is the G0 traverse rate independent of feed rate?
I know at 200ipm - the following error peaks at about .03 and seatles down to maybe .01. but like I say - it is P=10, D=1 and ff= 1 ;)
MattyMatt: not sure what you are asking - G0 traverse goes at the machine max (scaled by feed override) and does not care about F word
ah cool, I should have noticed before now :)
I've been putting Fnnn in every G0 & G1 line
I would think it should be even easier as I don't have much if any stiction
Dave911: seems like one phase needs some more volts as I increase the rpm it drops down to 230v
JT-Work: did you see my suggestion to use a variac?
it was semi-humerous, but it would compensate for a weak phase
high A variacs are rather expensive tho
The 611 drive should be fine even below 230 volts.. I don't think that is the problem.. they have a pretty wide operating range. I think the 611U went from 380 to 500 volts or so.. Check the label on that drive..
you can get iso transformers with a few taps at 100%, 105%, 110% tho cant't you?
Ok, I'll check it when I get back over there... when it tripped out it dipped down to 220 or so I think
1-2 stayed at 245 as I increased the rpm but 2-3 started to drop fast as I got above 2200 rpm
stator on the rotary gen is off-centre?
or one of the coils is damp?
Try a phase swap.. I bet the controls are dropping out due to a lack of voltage.. The controls will care about that.. The power electronics should be able to run on single phase actually... We used to do that for demos.. I used to work for Siemens.. I'd try swapping the phases next.. That should be pretty easy to do.. hopefully if you can get to the top of the machine...
...disconnect easily. Just keep track of the combinations that you try..
yes, it will be easy to swap phases after while
yeah that would diagnose if the driver is dragging down a good phase, or if it really is a weak phase
in the helical hole milling in useful-subroutines.ngc, the depth per circle is always 1/2 tool diameter. Is this a convention or just a random hack?
with hss, 1/2 diameter is a good easy cut. 1 diameter is fairly heavy.
I'll need that as a parameter I think. I'm trying not to melt delrin with a TC 4 flute
cradek: full diameter is done with a certain tool path that Mastercam X3 offers. Dynamic Milling. Youtube it.
ah, delrin is a beast unto itself ;)
MattyMatt: for plastic, if you are melting, feed much faster
I fear my machine can't go fast enough for fly-by cutting, so I have to peck, go and peck another hole, then come back when the 1st is cool
elmo42: I cut full diameter in a straight line with hss all the time... I think it's about the most the tool can handle.
MattyMatt: what's your speed and chip load?
no idea about chip load, but speed is limited to 2ipm on Y
still got the M8 leadscrew
2 ipm is not a typo?
I cut a lot of acrylic-glass. the basic idea behind not-melting is taking away large chips, to take out the heat with the material
50mm/min no typo
that's pretty much unusable
then you need a real slow spindle
your tool will only generate friction, but not cut
so it overheats
I can probably speed it up now the new plastic nut is worn in
I bet you need at least 10x that to cut plastic
you need a lot of feed speed to cut plastic?
yes you want thick chips, cut and never rub
and just keeping the hot tool moving will reduce local meltage by itself
165C for delrin
calculate how much your tool moves for each edge of your tool
I have to guess my spindle speed
eg. 60RPM with 1mm/min -> 60 rounds/mm
each edge should cut at least the amount of the tool-roundness
low speed caused least meltage, but I stalled the spindle a few times with my origin cuts
I was thinking the other day, how to slow my spindle down.. that Bosch router runs at 15to 35K
a single flute tool made for plastic might help you
and, it's soft start, so I can't use a external controller on it.
very sharp tool, lots of water based coolant
Connor slowing it down without losing power is the hard bit. my 'dremel' has a dimmer triac inside
I can't use coolant. wood machine
a Dimmer triac ?
yeah light a light dimmer switch
yes dremels can't give you reliable low speeds. you'll need some kind of gearing for plastic cutting maybe?
maybe easier to get a collet on a nema17, and use that :)
5 phase would be better of course
hmm B&D, that has 900 and 2400 rpm
would give you 900/50 = 18 tool-edges/mm with a single-flute-tool
* JT-Work runs off to pick up a couple of turtles from a friend... see you guys at the other shop
thats 0.055mm per cut, sounds quite reasonable
I have 2 flute ballnoses. I should try one of those
having a bot which translates from metrical to imperial would be nice :)
yeah wouldn't that be great
a few days ago I ran the axis-splash-code, which has a G20 line.
and I did not set it back to G21 bevore doing some manual milling :(
anyone ever cut down the length of a stepper motor shaft? if so, what do you use? I have a moto with grinding wheel.. band saw with metal blade, and a miter saw with cut-off type blade.
oh, and a small diameter bench grinder.
do you mean make a keyway, or just shorten the shaft?
how about washers under the mounting screws?
anything will work - holding it safely will be the hard part
hacksaw and file to clean up
shame you can't run the motor while it's bunged up with blutak, or you could use a mini grindwheel with the motor running
Trying to stay away from that MattyMatt on my Z.. it's in a enclosure and space is tight
maybe try putting the too long end in a bench vise and hacksaw it off
the shaft won't be hard
I can fire the motor up.. and let it cut it's own shaft off. :)
no, see blutak comment
gotta use blutak to keep chips out
is it possible to cut foam with a mill?
I mean getting not very rough cut
you can get as fine as the foam allows, if you have the patience
hi - curious about Pluto for servo with emc2. can one expect performance equivalent to the Mesa 5i20 ?
centaur: pluto is not very good. avoid buying one if you haven't already.
ballnose cutter, lots of passes
I need to figure out how to take out the slop in my mounting blocks.. I got ones from china.. and they have a little play in them after everytning is locked down.
plenty of vids on youtube show foam milling
MattyMatt, oh, thanks, I should've figured out search query
Connor pad with cardboard :) or shim steel
or grind the flats at the join
that's not the issue.. it's the bearings in the main block.... It goes like this... Bushing, Bearing, Bearing Bushing.
on the left side.. it has a removable face that holds the bearings.. the other side is fixed..
the bearings have a slight amount of room to move
ah bearing mounts. I thought you meant simple pillow blocks for shafts
and one of those bushing could stand to be a little longer so the lock nut doesn't rub the rubber grease seal.
I need some brass shaped like a donut..
so I can put it between the face or between the bearings.
like a pipe olive? if you need exactly 15 or 22mm ID you're in luck
let me check the ID. be just a minute
american plumbing different of course
yea, the olive would be good replacement for the bushing.. but, made out of steel.
the shim, is what's really needed though.
maybe rub down the OD of the bushings, so the housing can get a better grip on the bearings?
bushings are a loose 12mm.
and around 14.25mm od
did you get these? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/46-linear-bearing-bearings-LME12UU-linear-bush-bushing-/250477871058
crazy price, but it's a real deal. maxbots got his
or was that you? you're in his neck of the woods aren't you?
I got stuff from that buyer..
I have the ones that go on supported rails though
price for 46 is only about 2x their price for 4
yeah 12mm unsupported is neither here nor there. too heavy for a printer, too light for a mill
I'm using 12mm supported
yeah supported I'd be happy with that on my 2ft mill
[16:27:05] <Connor> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6-linear-bearing-rail-SBR-rails-12-bearing-blocks-/250536676030?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a55264abe
[16:27:20] <Connor> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2sets-bearing-mounts-BK15-BF15-3pcs-12-14mm-couplers-/250688167557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5e2dde85
the bearing blocks I'm using..
(maybe different size though)
ah you are in UK? who was it lives by maxbots in seattle then?
no. I'm in the US.. Just realized this was the UK ebay.
and I just realised it was me who sent you there
I who sent you, for the English pedants
Connor, I use these rails from this ebay seller, and also their ballscrew
unbeatable price, quite good quality
Yup.. I got Rails, ball screws, bearing blocks... and couplers.. all... from them..
450.00 for my first set of screws, rails and everything.. they forgot the blocks.. and had to ship them seperate..
then.. I didn't know I had to request the ends be machined... they came flush cut..
yeah they are the best prices generally, but that bundle of 46 is v tempting. it's almost worth designing a machine specially
was going to cost me $300.00 USD to have them done locally because they were hardend.
so, I got 3 new ones for $190.00
neat, and you can machine the others yourself when you're ready
not likly.. No lath.
I'll sell them.
or make locknuts for them and run them by pulleys :)
mendel Z axis style
I'll have to put the ball nuts back on two of them... which is a PAIN in the ass.
hard to mill on a 3 axis tho
My wire and E-Stop switch came!
compression fittings might be good, if you can get them in ballscrew OD
printers are getting almost good enough to print them
* MattyMatt gos back to milling delrin for now
is there something that can estimate the runtime of the part?
Under properties. found it. :)
Dave911: this is the drive http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Bridgeport%20308%20VMC/BP308-21.jpg
I've got the voltage balanced within a couple of volts even while running
I can step it up by 100-200 rpms up to 4500 at least but if I try a 500 rpm bump it will alarm out. With nothing in the spindle at 4500 rpm the load is about 40%
I'm in and out and on dialup atm so I can't get on line out in the shop :/
jthornton: It's funny how all the dirt/grime is attracted mainly to certain areas in that cabinet.
skunkworks: Got the pkg, thank you. But, they are 72pin, I needed 30pin.
skunkworks: Also, no return address, where do I send the shipping money to?
jthornton: maybe the dc bus caps in your vfd are bogus. can you get a meter on the vfd dc bus? does it sag when it accels? is the accel setting set way too high?
heck maybe the AC even sags when it accels - maybe your phase converter or wiring is badly inadequate?
jthornton: for most VFDs balance is irrelevant as long as the VFD doesn't think a phase is missing and fault for that - the 3ph is just charging capacitors and they don't care.
Jymmm: sorry :) - Don't worry about the shipping
skunkworks: You sure? It's no big deal slipping a fiver in an envelope =)
wow. crazy 'bug'
Jymmm: very sure.
i am running a file, works well. i notice my Z isnt deep enough to my liking. i stop the program and reset my Z home down a few. hit refresh and then play - FREEZE -
now emc will not even run
skunkworks: Well, thank you anyway, I appreciate it!
Jymmm: no problem - sorry I didn't pay attention to what you wanted ;)
cradek: by vfd do you mean the spindle drive?
the big one second from the left in the picture is the spindle drive
is it a servo and not an ac motor?
there are two buss bars under the covers on the bottom
yes it is a servo
ohh, then I have no idea
anyhow by getting my voltage balanced I can step it up to 4500 at least
does the AC sag a lot when it tries to accel?
I have not tried to catch that yet but the load percentage does go up
looks like it wants 400vac input - is there a step up transformer?
looking at http://static.gest.unipd.it/esercizi/IG_meccatronica_e_automazione/611_PJU.pdf
just below it is a multi tap transformer
* jthornton hums the Jeopardy song while I wait for dialup to download...
skunkworks: It's all good =) You dont actually have any 30pin do you? LOL
I think I'll finish up the connections for the new coolant pump while it downloads :/
is a 1W laser diode really suitable for circuit board engraving? http://www.electronics-lab.com/blog/?p=5619
it just doesn't seem plausible to me that you could vaporize a narrow track of copper (and if you do, watch out you don't breathe anywhere near by!)
Not even an 80W CO2 can do metal
thanks for confirming my intuition
It's a diode laser in that, so I don't think it could make a difference, but I could be wrong.
It might mark the copper
I don't know what wavelength works for that.
Nope, requires something like cermarc for that (a spray coating)
Jymmm: I really don't think so...
did you read the laser/PCB article?
I've seen instructions where the laser is used to remove resist, and then the board is etched
that's what this one does with the 1w diode
jthornton: sorry we lost power for a moment here and all of my IT equipment reset .. did I miss anything
Dave911: this is the drive http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Bridgeport%20308%20VMC/BP308-21.jpg
[13:18]<jthornton>I've got the voltage balanced within a couple of volts even while running
[13:18]|<--nullie has left freenode (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:19]<jthornton>I can step it up by 100-200 rpms up to 4500 at least but if I try a 500 rpm bump it will alarm out. With nothing in the spindle at 4500 rpm the load is about 40%
Funny though as I was on the cell phone a about 5 minutes after our power blipped, the power blipped in Michigan about 60 miles north of me ..
I have seen that drive before ... be careful the DC bus bars are behind those front covers..
yea, I have see them and checked the torque on all the nuts
You might want to try to jumper the alarm outputs on the drive, so the drive is always ok. And jump the enable input on the drive so the drive is always hot ... then try running your machine again and see if the error still pops up .. that would eliminate the spindle/axis drives as a source of the problem..
You could probably do one at a time even... one axis/spindle at at time.. Actually probably just the spindle first would be the smart way to go ..
ok, I have found the alarm terminals before in the drawings
all the axis will run at rapid speeds with no problems
ok, no good. I have a fresh 10.04 install. running EMC is fine until I open a terminal wanting to use image-to-gcode at the same time Axis is open and running a part. It says file system is locked. Once the part is done machining I try to open another file to run and Axis crashes. I try to open another terminal and says file system locked. Anyone else with this issue?
So just go for the spindle section and see if that eliminate the alarm ... perhaps the spindle section of the drive has some issues ..
The 611 drives are/were very common. You won't have problems getting replacement parts or getting it repaired if it is bad..
is there ramp setting on that drive that can be tweeked
I had to reboot since everything else froze. even the shutdown wasn't working 'are you sure it exists'
I think there are pots on the front of that drive section.. right?
yes, the spindle has two sets
Do you have a manual for that drive? I have one around here someplace.
no, just the machine manuals
Give me a minute ..
unless it is the pdf cradek linked to me a while ago
[19:48:12] <Dave911> http://www.automation.siemens.com/doconweb/content.asp?item=12410&cd=sinumerik_simodrive_04_2010_e&scope=all
[19:48:33] <Dave911> http://www.automation.siemens.com/doconweb/
can you tell from the picture if mine is the universal or the analog drive?
I think that what you need is in the first link.. the doconweb is the main doc portal for the CNC stuff
You have a non- U drive
These docs might be too new for your drive though ....
How old is your machine again??
all the ones I've found online are for newer drives, mine are 93 vintage
OK .. let me look a little more .. I had a link to another server that had all of the old docs on it..
Dave911: I have to run, thanks
what incentives exist or reasons are there to share CAD files? does anyone have an opinion
I am not sure I understand the question
The reasons depend on who is sharing files with whom.
well, let's say someone who is designing and building his own cnc machine
who has no plans on selling it or building-then-selling it
but presumably he shares his files online for anyone to use; why would he do this? i'm just interested in hearing various reasons/arguments for this
others can gain experience, also they can pass back comments you may find useful
some programmers release their source code to "show off" too, yeah :)
Seriously, I have shared my stuff up to and including CAD files, and the main incentive is peer-approval (aka "showing off")
jthornton: you poor bastard.
andypugh: can we switch to #cam ? someone else is replying as well
jthornton: dialup (again)
Dave911: I'm back on line for a bit if you found anything
Hi Jt... I did. I have a 1993 manual for the 611 drives ... it is a 11 meg pdf file.. can your email handle that?
Dave911: I just pm'd you
ok team. I need a new system, any suggestions? http://qurl.org/f41
[21:28:05] <andypugh> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121399&Tpk=D510MO
Half the price. What extras do the others have?
andypugh: ddr2 instead of ddr3. nvidia ion.
Is this for EMC2 or general use?
Because for EMC2 I doubt either of those matter at all.
how's it going today?
omg, seeing all the stuff mitee bite actually sells makes me sick, well, we will make 5 more sets, for those i will have nice clamps....
Anyone have a/the formula handy that allows you to calculate how much thread engagement you need to be able to maximize the strength of the connection? (once this amount of thread is engaged, any more pull and your thread engagement already exceeds what the bolt can hold, so adding more threads can't get you a stronger connection), we did it in school, but i can't find this right now
(I am tired of tapping through 2" thick plate, and if it exceeds what the bolt will do, will request a thread depth change ;) )