#emc | Logs for 2010-09-02

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[03:02:51] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[03:07:33] <morficmobile> SWPadnos must be around
[03:08:31] <Jymmm> Nah, it's his bedtime
[03:10:29] <morficmobile> Jymmm: my logic is flawed since i also don't know who else can restart it
[03:10:44] <Jymmm> restart what?
[03:12:34] <morficmobile> logger
[03:37:52] <SteveStallings> SteveStallings is now known as steves_logging
[03:59:47] <Jymmm> its magic
[04:06:30] <morficmobile> send some of this magic my way, fix my cam app
[04:10:51] <Connor> I'm building my PC for my router into the machine itself.. Trying to figure out placement of parts.. you think keyboard/mouse, ethernet and video ports in back, or in front?
[04:11:33] <Jymmm> in back then just use a front usb for kybd/moue
[04:12:17] <Connor> I'll have to inset it a bit because it's going to sit flush against the back wall.. but, that's not biggie.
[04:12:25] <morficmobile> ours will be in back of machine, close to the drives and the fun, kbd/mouse/video run to the front, according to the list, i should be semi safe with the video cable lengths :)
[04:13:41] <morficmobile> brb, trying rebooting not that it ever really helped
[04:13:44] <Connor> Going to have 3 or 4 power cords to this thing, 1 for pc supply, 1 for servo supply, 1 for router, and 1 for vacuum
[04:15:18] <Connor> I'm wishing I had a mini-itx case or PSU.. instead of a full size PSU..
[04:26:46] <morficmobile> wish this had worked.....
[04:29:26] <morficmobile> crap i was right, after i shut down i remembered the guy who does the knowledgebase programming, A) uses this computer at times, pointing at his machine which runs sql server express, B) often rearranges said sql server, in turn affecting my app, which did not say a peep until now :/
[04:30:35] <L84Supper> anyone know a source for double taper collets besides flebay and tools-n-gizmos?
[04:34:05] <morficmobile> like DA collets?
[04:34:52] <L84Supper> double taper collets http://www.gpcollets.com/dt_collets.html
[04:37:09] <morficmobile> never shopped for those.... usshoptools.com ? centaur?
[04:38:15] <L84Supper> the Cincinnati uses them... It only came with ~10
[04:39:39] <L84Supper> maybe I'll find a nice QC setup for this
[06:06:10] <morficmobile> so i broke it enough to be able to work on it right now, i'll see if someone can just wipe this thing clean and install fresh
[06:17:56] <morficmobile> i would much prefer to have this thing fixed while i sleep and it's ready to go when i come back
[07:43:05] <Valen> lol
[08:10:19] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[08:50:28] <pingufan> Hello, I noticed that - when I connect my frequency generator to different axes of my mill (to the gecko drives), that X/Y are moving much slower than Z. Well, Z has a belt gear to higher speed (I will swap the pulleys later), but it still is much too fast. I compared then the labels on the motors: Step-Sun type 103-714-2341 on both motors, but one with 1.8deg/step, the other one with 8 deg/step ??? Is this possible?
[08:57:42] <cpresser> pingufan: sounds odd, having two motors with the same label, but different steps/revelation
[08:58:49] <cpresser> but there is no rule that says 'steppers have to be 1.8°/step'
[08:59:52] <pingufan> It can only be the case that the type only describes the size and so forth, or the label somehow lost "1." which should stand in front of the "8", but without any visible damages....
[09:02:45] <boot|sleep> boot|sleep is now known as bootnecklad
[09:04:23] <cpresser> sounds reasonable. why dont you try to send 200steps to each motor and check if they both do one turn?
[09:08:27] <pingufan> First I must get EMC working, then I send controlled(!) 200 steps at very low speed and see how far it turns.
[09:08:42] <morfic> is the one with "8 deg" the one turning slower?
[09:14:23] <pingufan> I only watched the axes move. The belt-gear on this one Axis is ~1:2 (to the fast, don't ask why), but it moves faster than that.
[09:27:57] <pingufan> I try to install Ubuntu 10 now. Hope it supports CLE266 graphics better...
[09:44:07] <pingufan> Ubuntu repeatedly asked me to log in during install. Which username and password shall I use?
[09:45:10] <morfic> whatever username and password you gave it
[09:45:39] <pingufan> I am at INSTALL. Was not saken until now. :(
[09:46:13] <pingufan> asked
[09:46:48] <pingufan> Does it automatically try to upgrade the older v8 on the disk?
[09:57:39] <rooks> kinda offtopic, but what lcd monitor would you guys recommend for home use? something that is as easy on eyes as high DPI laptop screens would be awesome
[10:09:14] <bootnecklad> [10:49] <bootnecklad> http://imgur.com/pxFb9.jpg http://imgur.com/MEH8u.jpg http://imgur.com/MJZhC.jpg http://imgur.com/bxVRr.jpg http://imgur.com/4oUmI.jpg
[10:10:35] <pingufan> How much do you want to pay for it?
[10:11:17] <pingufan> I use (and favorize) iiYama displays. Excellent quality, service and price.
[10:11:53] <pingufan> Look for the E2607WS if you like to use 1920x1200 resolution :)
[10:53:23] <pingufan> bonzo
[11:09:22] <pingufan> Whow - I got it installed, but I cannot login.
[11:09:48] <pingufan> Whenever I try that, I return to the login screen
[11:09:59] <pingufan> What can be the reason?
[11:35:48] <pingufan> Hi, can somebody, please, tell me how I can change the password (Ubuntu 10)? I could never log in since I installed it
[11:36:22] <SWPadnos> then the best way is probably to reinstall, and write down the username/password when you enter it during installation
[11:37:29] <SWPadnos> remember, they are case sensitive
[11:39:16] <L84Supper> pingufan: doesn't Suse have account names and passwords as well? :) jk
[11:40:52] <pingufan> Sure! But I see no GRUB at all, and when I enter the right password it returns after short time to login screen, and when I enter a wrong password, I get (quicker) the message "Authentication failure".
[11:41:10] <L84Supper> ouch, no grub?
[11:41:25] <pingufan> Indeed. This is really strange.
[11:41:40] <L84Supper> oh but it gets passed it
[11:41:59] <pingufan> I'll install it now a 3rd time. This crappy Ubuntu.
[11:42:22] <L84Supper> time for a live cd or plug the HD into another working system and check logs
[11:42:39] <L84Supper> what mainboard? the old VIA?
[11:42:51] <L84Supper> CLE266?
[11:42:57] <pingufan> Sure.
[11:43:12] <L84Supper> you know.... it might be too old for Ubuntu
[11:43:12] <pingufan> It worked (with 800x600) with Ubuntu 8
[11:43:37] <pingufan> This is no reason for such behavior.
[11:43:48] <L84Supper> I don't have any Epia's that old
[11:44:10] <SWPadnos> ah, so you haven't been able to log in at all since install, but it does do something different when you have the correct password
[11:44:19] <SWPadnos> that's good information to have
[11:44:48] <jthornton> might try the 6.06 livecd if your hardware is that old
[11:44:49] <pingufan> As I said, SuSE works fine, Ubuntu 8 works fine (except this restricted resolution), so why shall Ub 10 not work?
[11:45:19] <L84Supper> VIA has been doing really poorly in the financial dept, they don't push Linux support except for large clients, OLPC etc
[11:45:43] <pingufan> ^^
[11:45:58] <L84Supper> pingufan: I have Ubuntu 10.04 on cn700, but nothing older
[11:46:16] <SWPadnos> you can get the grub menu by holding SHIFT (not by pressing ESC)
[11:46:45] <pingufan> I'll try the shift...
[11:47:15] <SWPadnos> change splash to nosplash, and add single to the command line
[11:47:32] <SWPadnos> then at least you should be able to look through the logs
[11:47:41] <L84Supper> Canonical might have dropped support for older VIA in the kernel config and in gpu support
[11:48:00] <SWPadnos> the kernel loads, since the login screen is displayed
[11:48:11] <L84Supper> I stopped tracking VIA issues about 2 years ago, I saw the writing on the wall
[11:49:22] <pingufan> bonzo
[11:50:34] <pingufan> Sorry. Shift helps nothing. I give it another final try, then I revert to Ub 8.0
[11:50:55] <L84Supper> yes, the kernel doesn't panic, but older VIA has all sorts of issues with new distis
[11:51:25] <L84Supper> esp Unichrome
[11:53:10] <L84Supper> pingufan: we had a few issues with cn700 + emc, you're probably better off using something else, .... at much as a fan of VIA you might be, as i was
[11:53:13] <SWPadnos> pingufan, the boot process is pretty fast, and you have to press and hold the shift key
[11:53:32] <SWPadnos> press after the keyboard has been initialized (the lights blink), and hold until you see the menu
[11:53:52] <pingufan> I have several workstations out, all of them running newest SuSE releases, and absolutely no such issues. Seems to be Ubuntu related then. ?!
[11:54:17] <pingufan> SWPadnos: Pretty fast is good. This is a VIA C3 @ 1000 MHz CPU. :)
[11:54:18] <L84Supper> pingufan: very well might be, esp with unichrome
[11:54:32] <SWPadnos> I have installed Ubuntu 10.04 on several workstations with no issues, so it may be computer or user related :)
[11:54:51] <pingufan> I wonder why it does not allow me to choose fbdev then.
[11:55:10] <SWPadnos> was this an upgrade or a clean install?
[11:55:12] <L84Supper> we tried to get his cle266 to run at higher than 800 x 600 on Ubuntu 8.04
[11:57:35] <pingufan> Brand new clean install.
[11:57:41] <piasdom> when i installed 10.04, i get 3million+ latency and 8.04 works(finally). same hardware, so it's just a software problem ?
[11:58:47] <SWPadnos> yeah, that sounds like an updated driver sucks for RT or something
[11:59:09] <SWPadnos> either that or there is a vendor-specific driver in 10.04, but VESA was being used on 8.04
[12:00:10] <piasdom> cool, cause i'ld like to get 10.04 to work. 8.04 doesn't have sound and latecny is about 40000
[12:00:17] <L84Supper> 10.04 had the broken drm or kms that they had to backport patches to
[12:00:45] <piasdom> latency
[12:00:52] <L84Supper> maybe something got missed in the works since VIA hasn't been very vocal the last year or two
[12:00:52] <pingufan> Mom, I must switch my screen to the other PC
[12:01:07] <SWPadnos> yeah, who knows
[12:01:32] <SWPadnos> know of much progress on open-source fully accelerated AMD/ATI drivers?
[12:01:37] <L84Supper> 80.4 and 10.04 do work on the cn700
[12:01:47] <piasdom> i'll try again, it would be ni nice to have everything work :)
[12:02:40] <L84Supper> SWPadnos: I'll check in a few hours, but IIRC the open drivers had surpassed the closed recently
[12:03:11] <SWPadnos> cool. I saw an article about the latest release of open-source code
[12:03:17] <SWPadnos> maybe in the last month or so
[12:03:23] <L84Supper> track #radeon for all the drama :)
[12:03:28] <SWPadnos> heh
[12:03:53] <SWPadnos> maybe I'll be able to use this old HD4870 some day :)
[12:03:55] <L84Supper> AMD is finally dropping the ATI name
[12:04:03] <SWPadnos> yep, saw that too
[12:04:18] <piasdom> which is better for emc ati or nvidia?
[12:04:58] <L84Supper> IMHO AMD, we have coreboot support for 7xx chipsets and open gpu drivers
[12:05:14] <piasdom> i guess i should ask, which is better supported
[12:05:58] <elmo40> I think Intel vid cards are better supported, in general.
[12:06:06] <SWPadnos> I'd love to use coreboot, but I never seem to get the right motherboards for it
[12:06:27] <SWPadnos> I have an old dual-Opteron SuperMicro that ought to work, but I don't think it's listed
[12:06:29] <L84Supper> we have Gigabyte MA785 boards supported now
[12:06:52] <SWPadnos> that's excellent. I'll be watching for the other 7xx and maybe even the 8xx series
[12:06:53] <L84Supper> and any 785G or 7xx variant is pretty easy to port to
[12:07:14] <SWPadnos> do you know offhand if the Intel Atom boards (ICH9 I think) are supported?
[12:07:16] <L84Supper> 880 is just about done, 890 should be soon
[12:07:50] <L84Supper> we have devs at AMD in Beijing working on coreboot support now :)
[12:08:01] <SWPadnos> that's awesome
[12:08:23] <L84Supper> Atom + i945 is working
[12:08:47] <L84Supper> AMD is also working on Opteron and server chipset support now
[12:09:21] <L84Supper> will be trying a 12 core, 4P board with EMC this fall with coreboot
[12:09:34] <pingufan> Shall or must I enter now a password? Shall I use automatic login or password asking?
[12:09:41] <SWPadnos> 12x4 core?
[12:10:14] <SWPadnos> I think you should enter a password anyway, you can still have it automatically log in, but a password will be needed to use sudo
[12:11:09] <L84Supper> yes, http://www.amd.com/us/products/server/processors/6000-series-platform/pages/6000-series-platform.aspx
[12:11:14] <SWPadnos> ok
[12:11:33] <SWPadnos> I noticed that Tyan has a quad-socket motherboard + quad daughterboard now as well
[12:11:46] <SWPadnos> I just wish the 12-core CPUs were a little less expensive
[12:12:10] <SWPadnos> and 16GB DIMMS :)
[12:12:56] <L84Supper> yeah plus we are working on some even denser systems for HPC, +10Gb interconnects with 1uS latency
[12:15:16] <L84Supper> well they made Intel chop prices
[12:18:27] <L84Supper> SWPadnos: are there any pro CNC machines using EMC2? Pro meaning on the scale of Fadal, Mori Seiki etc
[12:18:58] <pingufan> I know a tyan board for 4 AMD64 cpus. Nice part, especially when stacked up to 4 addnl CPUs. Gives then 32 Cores. :P
[12:19:01] <SWPadnos> I don't know of anyone selling such machines, but there are certainly people using machines like that with EMC2
[12:19:18] <pingufan> Hope that this stupid Ubuntu 10 will run then -- currently installing.
[12:19:21] <SWPadnos> pingufan, the one I was referring to can have up to 96 cores, 8x12
[12:19:23] <L84Supper> I've seen the CNC hobby machines
[12:19:41] <SWPadnos> I think that machine can also take 512GB of RAM
[12:20:00] <SWPadnos> (unless they have more DIMM sockets on the daughterboard, in which case it might be 1TB)
[12:20:09] <pingufan> This machine will possibly be strong enough for playing AVI files, yes? ;)
[12:20:10] <SWPadnos> L84Supper, no, not hobby machines
[12:20:44] <SWPadnos> http://www.mpm1.com:8080/ has some machines and configs that are in use (or under development) at MPM
[12:21:00] <pingufan> One bottleneck remains even with such strong machines: Peripherals don't become faster.
[12:21:01] <SWPadnos> I think the smallest machine there is a 4HP Bridgeport-like unit
[12:21:10] <SWPadnos> yep, that's true
[12:21:48] <SWPadnos> and one $500 video card can do the processing of several $1000 CPUs in some cases
[12:22:18] <L84Supper> I asked a Marvell dev to port EMC2 to ARM for the SOC's that have PCIe
[12:22:36] <pingufan> Yes. A good balance is 1-2 4-core or (soon) 6-core CPUs from AMD.
[12:23:11] <L84Supper> we have a supercomputer design that might end up with 2000 ATI hd5970 cards + 1K 12 core Opterons
[12:23:40] <pingufan> And what is this computer used for?
[12:23:42] <SWPadnos> that should be able to do a little bit of work
[12:23:47] <bootnecklad> [13:22] <SWPadnos> and one $500 video card can do the processing of several $1000 CPUs in some cases
[12:23:51] <bootnecklad> not if you are calculating pi
[12:24:14] <L84Supper> IIRC 4 PFlop peak >1PFlop sustained with only 500KW or power
[12:24:16] <SWPadnos> sure, inherently serial operations aren't well-suited for massively parallel computers
[12:24:25] <bootnecklad> http://tinyurl.com/27ul7b8
[12:24:51] <SWPadnos> but if you're trying to rotate and scale many images, a GPU is far far faster
[12:24:58] <L84Supper> 480VAC 3 phase 1000A power supply cord :)
[12:25:21] <SWPadnos> take 2, for redundancy :)
[12:25:33] <bootnecklad> http://tinyurl.com/27ul7b8
[12:25:36] <bootnecklad> !!!
[12:26:38] <L84Supper> heh "Mr Kondo's wife, Yukiko, 53, complained that the computer used up a lot of energy during the three-month project and increased the electricity bill to Y20,000 (£154) a month."
[12:27:04] <L84Supper> funny how these two end up married
[12:38:34] <L84Supper> pingufan: weather forecasting
[12:44:06] <elmo40> SWPadnos: what in the world is this for? http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/cinci/s1030673.jpg
[12:45:17] <SWPadnos> the ball bar in the upper right is put into the spindle, then the machine (a 5-axis, most likely) is moved into the center of the 3 indicators
[12:45:33] <elmo40> holy crap! "Mr Kondo's computer cost Y1.5 million (£11,550) to build and has a hard-drive capacity of 32 terabytes."
[12:45:35] <SWPadnos> you then pivot the spindle all around and verify that the ball doesn't move
[12:45:51] <SWPadnos> (other than rotation)
[12:46:03] <SWPadnos> which proves that your kinematics is set up correctly
[12:46:25] <elmo40> so not to measure anything but to test machine movement?
[12:46:37] <SWPadnos> yes, I think so
[12:46:45] <SWPadnos> it's a setup/configuration tool
[12:47:01] <skunkworks> elmo40: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn1bJ3YAQdI
[12:50:00] <elmo40> I know Renishaw has a testing apparatus similar to that... but a little more high-tech ;)
[12:50:25] <elmo40> seems like the Z dial bottomed out
[12:51:18] <elmo40> http://www.renishaw.com/en/telescoping-ballbar-systems--6813
[12:52:51] <elmo40> my b-day tmrw... taking the day off :) Getting old may be a fact of life but I tell ya, many people put learning on the optional side. Over the years I sure have seen that in the work place.
[12:53:44] <elmo40> ball test is fine if someone is there to watch it, LOL. With no recording you can not do it and walk away.
[13:24:32] <elmo40> this is cool. might not be linuxCNC based but still cool http://members.shaw.ca/rcmower/res/video/mvi_4997_00.swf
[13:24:48] <elmo40> using technology to save your back ;)
[13:40:05] <pingufan> Ok, I installed this Ubuntu 10 now again (from scratch). Exactly the same, I cannot login. At setup, I also configured an automatic login, I know my username/password, but I always come back to the login window.
[13:40:44] <cpresser> pingufan: check the logfiles (Syslog, Xorg.log)
[13:41:03] <pingufan> Good joke. How, when I cannot log in?
[13:51:20] <pingufan> I kick now out this crap and return to Ub 8.0
[13:52:05] <elmo40> ok, confused. why didn't it work?
[13:55:14] <elmo40> it is case sensitive, don't forget.
[13:55:32] <pingufan> I am no Linux Newbe, but this Ub 10 is a nightmare. I get a graphical login screen. So I assume, graphics is working. I enter my username (rainer) and password, after some seconds it returns to the login screen instead of showing me GNOME. :(
[13:55:41] <elmo40> on next boot edit the grub menu, add 'single' to one of the kernel lines. it will drop you to the console. try from there.
[13:56:10] <SWPadnos> does ctrl-alt-F1 give you a text login screen?
[13:56:24] <SWPadnos> err, text console
[13:56:48] <pingufan> No. It is then only entirely black. Then I can press Reset.
[13:57:19] <SWPadnos> this thread leads me to believe that you may have a bad X configuration: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r24647869-Ubuntu-1004-Cant-log-in
[13:57:37] <SWPadnos> which would be consistent with L84Suppers comments about unichrome
[13:59:01] <pingufan> Sorry. Why is using EMC such a crappy distro then?
[13:59:18] <SWPadnos> it's not a crappy distro, and you don't have to use it
[13:59:59] <skunkworks> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1507373&highlight=login+issue
[14:00:00] <elmo40> you can build an RTAI kernel for a debian box, then add emc2.
[14:00:15] <pingufan> Sure. I can start compiling whole EMC for hours.
[14:00:19] <elmo40> I think someone has even done it with gentoo, but that is sadistic :P
[14:00:20] <SWPadnos> or compile on Suse
[14:00:47] <pingufan> I revert back to 8.0 that worked at least
[14:01:06] <elmo40> pingufan: compiling tailors to your system. usually makes it more responsive.
[14:01:16] <SWPadnos> you're using old hardware, which often works better with older distributions
[14:02:24] <pingufan> I am not really interested in starting from scratch. UB 8 at least lets me log in, though it is unable to show me more than 800x600. I will install it and come back to tweak it then to higher resolution with your help.
[14:02:51] <elmo40> why unable? what are your specs?
[14:03:59] <skunkworks> pingufan: did you see this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1507373&highlight=login+issue or http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4792906&postcount=11
[14:07:57] <skunkworks> the later I have used to fix the 800X600 issue with hardy.
[14:39:53] <Dave911> pingufan: If you want to make your life easier .. why not upgrade to a newer Atom based motherboard? Ubuntu 10.04 works fine on the Atom 330 and 510 hardware. 10.04 and EMC2 work great together and at high res...
[14:46:21] <pingufan> Because I _have_ this hardware.
[15:11:02] <SWPadnos> pingufan, are you installing from the emc2 liveCD or a stock Ubuntu 10.04 (or 10.04.1) CD?
[15:11:22] <elmo40> i think it is stock.
[15:39:56] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[16:27:55] <L84Supper> we had to kill PLL to get the cn700 to work with Ubuntu 10.4
[16:28:12] <JT-Work> what is PLL?
[16:28:25] <L84Supper> pingufan: does your screen go crazy before you get the login?
[16:29:44] <JT-Work> Dave911: your package went out yesterday it weighed 4lb 14oz :)
[16:31:18] <L84Supper> JT-Work: X has PLL drivers to set the clocks in the gpu
[16:31:31] <Dave911> JT-Work: Thanks... the check is literally in the mail.. :-)
[16:31:56] <JT-Work> lol
[16:37:19] <pcw_home> earthquake (little one)
[16:37:39] <JT-Work> hang on Peter :)
[16:38:20] <pcw_home> pretty small maybe 3-4 but close
[16:39:45] <pcw_home> USGS says about 2 miles away
[16:49:38] <Connor> WooT! Got my steppers, PSU, and Control board in today!
[16:51:55] <moopy> can anyone help me out and have a very brief look at my config?
[16:52:10] <SWPadnos> post it on pastebin
[16:53:07] <Jymmm> 30% off orders over 199
[16:54:03] <moopy> http://pastebin.com/sZbp2XKS
[16:54:27] <moopy> that is config for just one joint
[16:55:00] <moopy> but it may be better to just use the program to demo the output for yourself
[16:55:55] <moopy> I dont seem to be connecting the vismach machine correctly as the simulation is not following axis were it runs the demo
[16:56:30] <moopy> but that said i have never been able to get the puma config to run correctly anyways
[16:57:17] <SWPadnos> could you post the entire HAL file?
[16:58:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: welcome home (belated)
[16:58:06] <SWPadnos> heh. thanks
[16:58:17] <SWPadnos> (about half way to the next trip :) )
[16:58:33] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ah, haven't seen you too much in here
[16:58:37] <SWPadnos> nope
[16:58:46] <moopy> i posted the whole hal now
[16:58:49] <SWPadnos> I went to Dallas and then Toronto the last two weeks
[16:59:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: How did the shows go?
[16:59:14] <SWPadnos> I was shooting a Ford commercial
[16:59:26] <SWPadnos> the Emmys went OK, just a few problems
[16:59:32] <SWPadnos> moopy, link?
[16:59:35] <SWPadnos> to the pastebin
[16:59:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: trigger board issues?
[16:59:54] <moopy> http://pastebin.com/jLJ2Hb0u
[17:00:01] <SWPadnos> I don't know. I haven't been able to get the full story yet
[17:00:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ah
[17:00:13] <moopy> ooops thought the link was the same
[17:03:31] <SWPadnos> how big is the test file?
[17:03:42] <SWPadnos> that's not a script is it?
[17:03:52] <SWPadnos> (it should be the python vismach program itself)
[17:04:11] <moopy> yes its an autogenerated vismach script
[17:04:34] <moopy> its about 2.5kb
[17:05:18] <SWPadnos> pastebin
[17:06:51] <moopy> http://pastebin.com/WxgwachD
[17:07:32] <moopy> the vismach code is wrong from a geometry point, but all the joints link to the mache
[17:09:57] <SWPadnos> well, I'm not sure what's wrong. (I don't know enough python or vismach to see it at a glance, and I don't have time for an in-depth review)
[17:11:10] <SWPadnos> I'd check to be sure that the sample vismach configs all work - the max5kins one doesn't use trivkins, so that's probably the closest to what you're doing
[17:27:55] <Jymmm> To those that buy from Grizzly.... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=147368
[17:59:55] <moopy> can anyone explain emc configuration to me?
[18:00:21] <moopy> i am starting to wonder if i misunderstand the way emc works?
[18:03:18] <awallin> moopy: this is about the best there is: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Components (at least last time I tried to find some overview of emc as a whole)
[18:36:19] <NTU> pingufan: hi. try starting GDM in failsafe mode
[18:39:30] <NTU> also PLL is radeon specific IIRC and only affects LVDS screens or something along those lines. I never look at kernel KMS code so I can't say much for that.
[19:11:41] <Jymmm> LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSKL3ohnr3A&feature=player_embedded#!
[19:21:21] <Jymmm> Um, is the angle of a hexagon 60 deg?
[19:24:04] <JT-Work> which angle?
[19:24:18] <KimK_> It's a 60 deg inside turn because 6 x 60 = 360. So the "angle" is 180 - 60 = 120. I hope that wasn't too awful.
[19:24:42] <KimK_> Does that make sense?
[19:24:59] <Jymmm> JT-Work: the angle of two ajoining edges of a hexagon
[19:25:15] <JT-Work> 120°
[19:25:26] <KimK_> OK, that would be 120. The "turn" is 60.
[19:26:03] <JT-Work> yea, just depends on how you measure the two lines :)
[19:26:38] <Jymmm> I don't know if anyone cares....
[19:26:53] <JT-Work> so the correct answer is 60° or 120° or 240°
[19:27:01] <Jymmm> https://gist.github.com/3b6fd176dba64409fdbc
[19:27:14] <Jymmm> and http://i56.tinypic.com/25iokea.jpg
[19:27:31] <Jymmm> oh hell...
[19:27:46] <Jymmm> 1) Using a simple pencil compass, draw a circle.
[19:27:46] <Jymmm> 2) Move the point of the compass to anywhere on the circle.
[19:27:46] <Jymmm> 3) Draw an arc that starts and ends within the edge of the circle.
[19:27:47] <Jymmm> 4) Move the compass point to where one end of the arc you just drew intersects the circle.
[19:27:49] <Jymmm> 5) Draw another arc as in step 3.
[19:27:51] <Jymmm> 6) Move the compass point and repeat until you have drawn four arcs around the circle (You only need four arcs, but could do 6 if you want it symmetrical).
[19:27:53] <Jymmm> 7) Using a straight edge, draw straight lines that intersect the points of the arcs with the edge of the circle.
[19:27:55] <Jymmm> You now have a hexagon!
[19:27:57] <Jymmm> Note: A 4" diameter circle will produce a 4" POINT-TO-POINT hexagon (as opposed to edge-to-edge hexagon).
[19:27:59] <Jymmm> You could to the same thing using a piece of string and a pencil for any size hexagon you might need.
[19:28:14] <Jymmm> And the example http://i56.tinypic.com/25iokea.jpg
[19:30:18] <KimK_> * KimK_ thinks that Jymmm's original question was really "How do you make a hexagon?"
[19:30:28] <KimK_> What are you up to there, Jymmm?
[19:30:29] <Jymmm> No, I knew that.
[19:30:52] <KimK_> Are you working on that vacuum fan thing?
[19:30:57] <Jymmm> I was trying to word that as simple as possible when I wrote it
[19:31:24] <Jymmm> KimK_: Yeah, but the hexagon thing isn't related to that.
[19:31:30] <KimK_> Oh, OK
[19:32:10] <Jymmm> I need to fidn/make smallish machine mount dampeners, any suggestions?
[19:32:12] <SWPadnos> you should only need 3 arcs
[19:32:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Try it =)
[19:32:56] <SWPadnos> ok, you're using an extra arc to get the radius
[19:32:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: with 3, you are missing two points I found out =)
[19:33:06] <SWPadnos> if you leave the compass set to the radius, then you only need 3 arcs
[19:33:07] <Jymmm> well one pint
[19:33:20] <Jymmm> point
[19:33:33] <KimK_> * KimK_ thought pint was better
[19:33:49] <Jymmm> KimK_: Gallon ever better
[19:33:52] <DaViruz_> if you place the pen side on the intersection instead of tne needle
[19:33:53] <DaViruz_> i suppose
[19:34:46] <SWPadnos> somewhat easier construction: draw a diameter line through the circle
[19:35:55] <SWPadnos> with the compass set to the radius of the circle, draw an arc centered on each of the two points that the diameter line intersects the circle, with each arc intersecting the circle on both sides
[19:36:13] <SWPadnos> the 6 intersections (2 from the diameter, 2 from each arc) are the 6 points of the hexagon
[19:36:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: The diameter line being the center of the circle?
[19:36:39] <SWPadnos> any line through the center of the circle, which also intersects the circle on both sides
[19:36:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, how do you know when you are in the CENTER?
[19:37:02] <Jymmm> or the max width of the circle?
[19:37:14] <SWPadnos> you have a construction point which is the center of the circle
[19:37:28] <SWPadnos> or you wouldn't be able to draw the circle
[19:38:00] <SWPadnos> your construction may be capable of making a hexagon in an arbitrary circle (ie, one that you didn't just draw with the compass)
[19:39:24] <Jymmm> If you set the compass to the radius of an existing circle you mean?
[19:40:09] <Jymmm> Anyhow... It's all good. Just sharing is all
[19:40:40] <cradek> this works only because the chord of the circle is the same as the circle's radius
[19:41:06] <JT-Work> Jymmm: if you come by the house I have a shovel I'll share with you :P
[19:41:11] <cradek> so you have a triangle with all three sides equal: chord = radius = radius
[19:41:42] <Jymmm> JT-Work: What do I want a shovel for? I have boots!
[19:41:47] <cradek> if you have an arbitrary circle I think you can't construct the inscribed hexagon so easily
[19:41:52] <JT-Work> to dig with
[19:42:10] <Jymmm> JT-Work: What am I digging? bullshit?
[19:42:28] <cradek> (er what was the question?)
[19:42:46] <Jymmm> cradek: No question, just sharing what I wrote up.
[19:42:51] <JT-Work> dirt where the new slab will be soon
[19:43:21] <Jymmm> JT-Work: get a bobcat instead, cheaper than the beer and bbq you'll need to feed me
[19:43:55] <Jymmm> cradek: If you have a 6" existing circle, you could set the compass to it's radius and do the same thing
[19:44:01] <JT-Work> ok, I'll just use the backhoe... I was trying to save on diesel :)
[19:45:19] <Jymmm> JT-Work: Just the coal alone to prepar the bbq would cost you more than the rental and fuel
[19:45:39] <JT-Work> what am I renting?
[19:45:45] <Jymmm> JT-Work: bobcat
[19:46:05] <JT-Work> who needs to rent a bobcat when you own a backhoe?
[19:46:06] <Jymmm> I didn't know you already had a backhoe
[19:46:47] <JT-Work> and you can't dig with a bobcat only move loose dirt etc
[19:47:45] <L84Supper> has anyone tried these? http://www.grizzly.com/products/R-8-Quick-Change-Collet-16-pc-Set/T10068
[19:49:24] <JT-Work> http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?pid=20348&id=100000746761607&ref=fbx_album
[19:50:42] <JT-Work> I wonder why they call it "quick change" it is only a collet adapter for r8
[19:51:11] <KimK_> L84Supper: I have not tried those, but isn't it just an R8 to ER40 adapter? So if there's a collet involved, how is it a quick change?
[19:51:19] <KimK_> Ha, too slow
[19:51:32] <JT-Work> your too slow today Kim
[19:51:37] <KimK_> Ja
[19:52:15] <JT-Work> If you have a mill like mine your short on Z anyhow and adding length to use a different collet is bad
[19:52:44] <cradek> yeah looks like plain old ER
[19:52:50] <JT-Work> speaking of Z I have 16" due here tomorrow
[19:52:51] <cradek> 32 or 40, can't tell
[19:53:39] <cradek> I think you're supposed to tighten ER40 to ~ 100ftlb. not sure how you'd do that with it in the mill
[19:53:44] <JT-Work> I would think 32 as they don't look as big as the set of 40's I have
[19:53:58] <cradek> yeah my guess is also 32
[19:55:39] <cradek> hm says it goes up to 1" though - must be 40?
[19:55:56] <JT-Work> yep, I was just looking and 32 only goes to about 3/4
[19:56:35] <L84Supper> I come across these often and I just figured that people buy them and then try to get rid of them
[19:56:56] <cradek> I'm wrong - it's 150 ftlb for ER40
[19:57:09] <cradek> 100 ftlb for ER32
[19:57:43] <JT-Work> you have the torque for 16 and 25?
[19:57:52] <cradek> http://www.parlec.com/pages/straight_shank_er_collet_chucks
[19:58:01] <cradek> found it here - not sure how trustworthy
[19:58:20] <cradek> "more than you think" is the required torque
[19:59:21] <JT-Work> I have one of those straight shank ER16 holders for the CHNC
[19:59:23] <cradek> I think my ER40 wrench is only about 10" long - that's sure a lot of force then
[20:00:15] <JT-Work> you use 40 on the JR?
[20:00:50] <cradek> yes
[20:01:03] <JT-Work> need any more?
[20:01:14] <cradek> collets or holders?
[20:01:19] <JT-Work> collets
[20:01:21] <cradek> I needed another 1/4 collet just yesterday
[20:01:28] <cradek> I found a 6-7 and used it instead
[20:01:37] <L84Supper> I'm looking for more suppliers of double taper collets for Treemill / Cincinnati
[20:01:39] <cradek> what do you have?
[20:02:13] <JT-Work> looks like a set with a block to set them in I'll have to check what sizes they are... they came with the CHNC
[20:02:13] <cradek> L84Supper: DA?
[20:02:51] <Jymmm> JT-Work: What's the slab for?
[20:02:57] <L84Supper> cradek: no DT http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/DT_Collet.html
[20:04:20] <JT-Work> expand my shop
[20:05:35] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[20:05:42] <Jymmm> JT-Work: That's it? I thought it was something useful like installing a new smoke house.
[20:06:42] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Heh... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=147368
[20:07:03] <L84Supper> yeah, read that ;)
[20:07:19] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Ok, cool
[20:08:04] <L84Supper> the tool nazis.... no more tools for you!
[20:08:39] <cradek> JT-Work: sweet - maybe we can make a deal - let me know.
[20:09:06] <JT-Work> I'm sure we can... I'll dig them out this evening
[20:10:08] <pingufan> Hi, I got meanwhile UB 8.x running again, and I am surprised that it shows me now a muc hhigher resolution. Is this a "random" OS, or will it stay now as it is? Now I can suddenly select several resolutions, before I couldn't. :(
[20:10:47] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Well, that in itself would be enough reason for me NOT to buy from them. Just the Customer SErvice aspects of him having to go to outside resources
[20:10:55] <SWPadnos> it depends more on the monitor than the OS
[20:11:33] <SWPadnos> it will show you some default resolutions unless it can get good information from the monitor, in which case it will show you the resolutions that both the monitor and video card say they support
[20:12:39] <Connor> Anyone tell me how the spindle interface on this board works? http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-Kit-4-Axis-NEMA-23-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-/250677765676?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5d8f262c Does it just about voltage?
[20:12:55] <Connor> I'm using a standard palm router...
[20:14:16] <cradek> seems like there is not enough information there to tell
[20:14:22] <JT-Work> Connor: for a few more dollars you can get this http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14469
[20:14:53] <Connor> I've ready got it..
[20:15:07] <JT-Work> or for a few less dollars 4 of these http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14471
[20:15:14] <JT-Work> heh
[20:15:49] <Connor> Damn. 299 ? I got my control, psu and motors for less than that, including shipping..
[20:16:12] <skunkworks> f0b7 Relay spindle interface - Outputs Max. 36V 7.5A for spindle motors or coolant pump (only one device can be powered by this output!)
[20:16:41] <Connor> So, It outputs voltage from the input side...
[20:16:58] <Connor> not gonna work for a AC based palm router.
[20:18:19] <SWPadnos> the board-mount relay can be used to control a larger motor contactor
[20:19:04] <Connor> Yea, I'm trying to figure out all my AC input requirments..
[20:19:34] <Connor> I need AC for router, PC, Motor PSU, and a plug for the Vacuum.
[20:20:06] <Connor> Spindle RPM will be manual via adjust nob on router.
[20:20:17] <pingufan> I have a SSR connected to pin 1 of my printer port. It switches the spindle on and off. High level on that pin switches the motor on. How do I configure that?
[20:22:23] <SWPadnos> select "spindle ON" for pin 1 in stepconf, or add a suitable line in your HAL file (something like net spindle-control motion.spindle-on parport.0.pin-01-out)
[20:27:12] <pingufan> So spindle-ON is binary (ON/OFF) and there are other modes (with PWM etc) in addition?
[20:28:40] <pingufan> Btw: I want to cennect my little PC tomorrow to my mill. Is a ribbon cable of 1-2 meters with DSUB25 connectors on its ends, fine?
[20:28:49] <SWPadnos> there is a speed output as well as the forward, reverse, and on outputs
[20:29:04] <SWPadnos> you can use whatever subset of these makes sense for your machine
[20:29:43] <SWPadnos> usable cable length depends on a lot of factors, including grounding and noise
[20:30:04] <JT-Work> pingufan: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/motion.9.html
[20:30:10] <SWPadnos> you can try it and see, there's no way to predict whether it will work with the information we have
[20:30:17] <JT-Work> scroll down to the spindle stuff
[20:30:37] <pingufan> I know, parallel port officially no more than 2 meters. From your experience, will it work in office environment?
[20:30:57] <SWPadnos> it depends more on your machine
[20:31:14] <SWPadnos> for a 2m run, I'd prefer to use shielded cable (which ribbon usually isn't)
[20:31:31] <pingufan> Well, everything through opto-couplers. PC817
[20:31:43] <SWPadnos> I can't tell you if it will work or not, you'll have to tell me :)
[20:31:44] <JT-Work> depends on how big the motor is in your paper shredder :)
[20:32:19] <pingufan> 2.5A 3.3V DC (stands on the labels)
[20:32:40] <pingufan> A very solid machine, a lot of metal (shielding well).
[20:57:02] <pingufan> Ha, I found out that this Ubunto automatically uses 800x600, when no screen is connected at startup. Really "smart". And then I cannot change that resolution, in addition. So how can I fixate the resolution to i.e. 1280x1024 ?
[20:58:04] <cradek> plug in your monitor and reboot?
[20:58:17] <L84Supper> pingufan: NTU gave you a new xorg.conf
[20:59:00] <pingufan> Ok. Did not work and then he and me, too, was busy.
[20:59:53] <pingufan> But it's ok, I will use a monitor then all the time if there is no other way. (I start to become a little bit phlegmatic).
[21:01:04] <pingufan> But it still would be a good thing if the PC would shut off the power after running shutdown. ;)
[21:01:21] <skunkworks> lucid does... :)
[21:01:46] <pingufan> Can I enforce some rudimentary ACPI support, just enough for power-off?
[21:02:02] <Jymmm> They all do, you just have to have the right mobo/bios that does it =)
[21:02:14] <pingufan> some boot option like acpi=force in grub ?
[21:02:35] <pingufan> 8)
[21:02:43] <skunkworks> Jymmm: the older emc2 livecd's with the real time patches disabled the acpi stuff.
[21:02:57] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Heh
[21:03:31] <skunkworks> the kernel the built for lucid does shut down. (it is awesome :))
[21:03:32] <pingufan> So acpi support is only disabled or not in kernel?
[21:03:45] <skunkworks> you are talking above my pay grade.
[21:05:26] <pingufan> skunkworks: I have now (again) UB 8 running and will not try UB 10 again, it makes big problems. It possibly is compiled for 586 or 686 CPU's, the CIA C3 processir is not fully supporting that.
[21:08:03] <L84Supper> pingfan: 10.04 is 386 with flags for 486 optimizations
[21:08:26] <L84Supper> Ubuntu likes everything to be connected when you install it
[21:08:45] <L84Supper> monitor, nic etc
[21:08:50] <pingufan> Then it should have worked, but it didn't let me log in. :(
[21:10:32] <pingufan> Cool When I connect my LCD through VGA, I can select from a lot of resolutions, when I connect my CRT, not. :/
[21:10:33] <L84Supper> try gdm in failsafe
[21:11:13] <alex_chally> so i have been thinking about making a superconducting magnet to pull steel splinters out of my hands
[21:11:35] <alex_chally> I mean, it can't be that hard if you have some LN2 lying around
[21:11:36] <pingufan> Is EMC2 able to run on 800x600 (with AXIS)? I don't want to buy now an LCD only to get a higher resolution.
[21:11:42] <alex_chally> and I have a friend with a dewar so I can actually buy it
[21:11:48] <L84Supper> how about a hobby MRI to go with it?
[21:12:01] <alex_chally> L84Supper, heh
[21:12:04] <alex_chally> except I am dead serious
[21:12:19] <alex_chally> I am fucking tired of slicing open my own fingers with a razor blade to pull out a well entrenched sliver
[21:12:33] <SWPadnos> your CRT probably isn't doing DDC correctly (which could also be part of the problem with 10.04, if you were using the CRT the whole time)
[21:12:50] <pingufan> No, I did the setup with my LCD.
[21:13:23] <SWPadnos> you should be able to set up an xorg.conf file with some resolutions the CRT can do, and specify the option that prevents DCC probing (DCProbe = off or something)
[21:13:24] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:13:39] <SWPadnos> err, DDCProbe=off (maybe)
[21:14:50] <pingufan> What do I choose when I have a 3-axis mill with step/dir for every gecko? Sherline 3Axis?
[21:15:22] <awallin> stepper_mm ?
[21:18:57] <NTU> Option "NoDDC" "True" in between Section "Device" Identifier "Configured Video Device" and EndSection (xorg.conf)
[21:21:34] <NTU> also if you run "startx -verbose 6" it will tell you exactly why it won't use the other modes.. or at least should/
[21:22:50] <NTU> but stop GDM first (sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop) then run that command.
[21:27:42] <pingufan> does apt-get install ssh-server install sshd ?
[21:27:53] <cpresser> yes, it does
[21:29:59] <SWPadnos> openssh-server, I think
[21:30:12] <pingufan> Corect. That worked.
[21:33:35] <NTU> SWPadnos: do you have any idea why /etc/init.d/realtime start works yet EMC says "halcmd: hal_init() failed: -22 NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=13) HAL: ERROR: rtapi init failed"
[21:33:38] <NTU> AH!
[21:34:10] <NTU> kind of funny how it was a 0.1 second difference
[21:35:58] <NTU> SWPadnos, did you get my message? you got disconnected right after I posted a question.
[21:36:32] <SWPadnos> no
[21:37:05] <NTU> do you have any idea why /etc/init.d/realtime start works yet EMC says "halcmd: hal_init() failed: -22 NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=13) HAL: ERROR: rtapi init failed" cat /proc/modules says hal_lib, rtapi, and all that are loaded.
[21:37:36] <SWPadnos> nope
[21:43:05] <pingufan> NTU: I am afraid I need your help with X11.
[21:43:48] <NTU> Can't write to /dev/rtai_shm - aborting ugh
[21:44:22] <NTU> yes pingufan?
[21:44:52] <pingufan> 800x600 issue. 1280x1024 would be better. ;)
[21:45:20] <SWPadnos> NTU, there's a udev rule or something for the RTAI shm dir
[21:45:23] <pingufan> The driver supports even more on my CLE266 chipset, but not when the CRT is connected.
[21:46:25] <NTU> pingufan: did you turn off DDC like i said 30 mins or so ago?
[21:46:33] <pingufan> I have access to the machine through VNC and ssh, it is standing in the neighbour room.
[21:46:54] <pingufan> If you meen the additional line in xorg.conf, Yes.
[21:47:21] <NTU> ok can you re-post /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
[21:47:44] <pingufan> Ok, mom.
[21:47:55] <NTU> but start x using startx -verbose 6
[21:48:17] <NTU> then post output of that to if you can by using &> file.txt
[21:48:46] <NTU> udev rule? Now that is relevant to my interests :)
[21:54:07] <L84Supper> hmm Warner & Swasey #5 turret lathe for $600, 20HP motor smoked when turned on
[21:54:21] <pingufan> with "startx -verbose 6" I get this output and no running X at all: http://www.hantsch.co.at/_temp/startx.log
[21:54:25] <L84Supper> otherwise fine
[22:02:31] <cpresser> pingufan: the file is 0bytes
[22:14:19] <andypugh> L84Supper: Terminal "smoked" or "a bit damp and dusty" smoked?
[22:16:31] <L84Supper> andypugh: I think it needs to be rewound or replaced
[22:16:49] <L84Supper> 20HP is overkill for me anyway
[22:17:06] <andypugh> Nothing to loose by taking it apart and cleaning/checking
[22:17:30] <L84Supper> it woekd fine 4 years ago when it was last started
[22:17:38] <L84Supper> worked even
[22:17:52] <pingufan> cpresser: I tried to fix that with NTU in a private chat. No chance. I decided to become familiar with 800x600 until I get a newer display.
[22:18:07] <andypugh> It probably is just damp, dust, spiders and mouse nests then.
[22:18:10] <L84Supper> I just spoke to the machinist that used to run the shop
[22:19:14] <L84Supper> they have several bridgeports in parts plus a few Mori Seki turret lathes, all just sitting inside for 4+ years
[22:19:30] <pingufan> How do I re-configure the parallel port pin assignment? Pin 1 of DB25 = spindle, 2+3 = step+dir X 4+5 for Y 6+7=Z
[22:19:53] <cpresser> pingufan: use stepconf
[22:19:59] <cpresser> it is quite easy to use
[22:20:13] <cpresser> otherwise edit the hal-file manually
[22:20:16] <pingufan> ah, I thought thi is embedded in emc.
[22:21:06] <cpresser> i got my machine up and running in less then 30min using nothing but stepconf
[22:21:20] <cpresser> the fine tuning still isnt finished :D
[22:22:06] <pingufan> Got it. My axis-threads have 8 turns/inch. should I use inch or mm as units?
[22:22:29] <andypugh> It doesn't matter. What do you prefer to work in?
[22:22:35] <pingufan> I would finally prefer the metric system
[22:22:52] <andypugh> one inch is _exactly_ 25.4mm
[22:23:07] <cpresser> just type G21 in the MDI-Window :)
[22:23:12] <andypugh> EMC has no preference for roundnumbers.
[22:23:51] <pingufan> I know. If this units on first page of stepconf are for the G-codes, I'll select mm.
[22:23:57] <andypugh> So it doesn't matter if you call the pitch 8 tpi or 3.175mm
[22:24:38] <andypugh> You can switch the G-code between inch and mm with a G-code
[22:25:25] <pingufan> What stands below the line Address of 3rd parallel port? Screen size is not sufficient with 800x600. :(
[22:25:52] <andypugh> Ah, yes, that really is painful isn't i?
[22:25:59] <cpresser> pingufan: why dont you start stepconf via X-Server on another computer?
[22:26:08] <cpresser> then resolution wont be a problem
[22:26:11] <pingufan> I got right now this idea.
[22:29:49] <pingufan> I never saw a jitter >15000, but I will enter 20000. Is this on the safer side then?
[22:31:03] <skunkworks> you should calculate it more on how fast you want to output the steps.
[22:31:44] <pingufan> I'll be happy if it moves at all (for the beginning).
[22:33:31] <pingufan> My home switches are n.o., connected in parallel, and go to Pin 10. Do I select "All Reference switches" then for this input?
[22:34:14] <andypugh> 20,000 is plenty fast enough in my experience (limited)
[22:35:31] <andypugh> As for home/limit switches, I am not sure, I tend to work directly in the HAL file now.
[22:36:17] <pingufan> what max speed (inch/s) shall I enter?
[22:36:25] <cpresser> * cpresser cant help either, I got switches for each axis
[22:36:25] <andypugh> But anything with "all" and "switches" in it sounds about right.
[22:37:00] <cpresser> max speed depends on your hardware
[22:37:33] <andypugh> You should see a "test axis" box at some point, you can use that to find the max speed.
[22:37:42] <pingufan> stepper with 1.8° and 8 turns/inch gear. 2.5 A per phase. An estimation would be helpful.
[22:38:52] <cpresser> my machine does about 10000steps/second when running really fast. this gives 4800mm/min
[22:39:30] <andypugh> My machine tops out at about 1000mm/min
[22:40:05] <andypugh> Guess high, then see what the machine can really do.
[22:40:16] <pingufan> Now it starts to become problematic. As I am sitting in neighbour room and operate stepconf through SSH, it is surely no good idea to do the test.
[22:41:24] <cpresser> get a longer lan-cable :)
[22:41:40] <cpresser> I would NOT recommend the test without monitoring the machine
[22:42:04] <pingufan> :) I would NEVER risk that. Sure.
[22:42:11] <andypugh> At least not until you are sure the limit switches work :-)
[22:42:48] <pingufan> Oh god, you cannot imagine how stupid this is. Cannot set higher resolution, and application cannot scale its window. =8-O
[22:43:27] <pingufan> Shall I include the HALUI at all?
[22:43:31] <andypugh> Yes
[22:43:58] <andypugh> There is no drawback in having it enables
[22:44:22] <pingufan> What's with PyVCP and Classicladder PLC ?
[22:44:25] <andypugh> And you need it for things like hjog-pendants
[22:44:46] <andypugh> You can probably leave those for now
[22:45:38] <andypugh> PyVCP allows you to add other widgets to the display (text boxes, LEDs etc) and Classic Ladder is really handy (I have heard) for toolchangers and that sort of thing.
[22:46:16] <cpresser> I started without halui and PyVCP, but I just added it a few days ago
[22:47:21] <pingufan> Fine. I started now EMC from the desktop (through VNC). Machine is not powered up, so I can do a dry-run. How do I manually move an axis?
[22:48:14] <andypugh> Which axis?
[22:48:28] <andypugh> Cursor keys jog X and Y
[22:48:49] <alex_chally> http://www.ctemag.com/pdf/2007/0702-ThinWallmilling.pdf
[22:48:54] <alex_chally> cool article on thin wall machinign
[22:48:54] <andypugh> Or type X, Y Z, and + / -
[22:48:59] <alex_chally> machining
[22:49:26] <pingufan> Ok. Mist I configure homing first, too?
[22:49:51] <pingufan> This re my very first steps.
[22:51:15] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[22:51:29] <andypugh> It should jog without homing.
[22:51:57] <cpresser> but you cant run MDI (g-Code) without homing
[22:52:02] <andypugh> But you can't run G-code until homed (this is configurable with a change to the INI file)
[22:52:05] <pingufan> when I press cursor right, should the displayed coordinates change ?
[22:52:17] <andypugh> Press F1 then F2
[22:52:38] <andypugh> (Or undo E-stop top right, and power on, next one accross)
[22:53:03] <pingufan> Ok, I go to the machine... press thumbs! ;)
[22:54:23] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[22:56:19] <pingufan> Nothing moved. :(
[22:56:41] <pingufan> Only spindle was running.
[22:57:52] <cpresser> use the hal-scope and check the step-gneration
[23:01:50] <cpresser> if this looks good, try measuring the port pins with a real scope :)
[23:02:34] <pingufan> It would be wonderful to initially switch the spindle on/off How is this done?
[23:03:00] <andypugh> Did you set up the spindle in stepconf?
[23:03:55] <pingufan> Yes.
[23:04:15] <andypugh> If so, then the axis screen should have spindle CW / ACW and stop, plus possibly speed+ and speed- (depending on config)
[23:05:10] <andypugh> Did you see the numbers move on screen but no axis movement, or was there no change in anything?
[23:06:26] <pingufan> Wait. I chose at pin 1: "Spindle on" and tried it meanwhile with and w/o invert. The spindle permanently runs, that means that the output of Pin1 = high (+5V).
[23:08:33] <andypugh> What's the hardware?
[23:10:08] <andypugh> ie what is between the parallel port pin and the spindle motor?
[23:10:36] <pingufan> Parallel Port on PG goes through Optocouplers to 3 Gecko drives (G251) and a SSR for the spindle. Pin1=Spindle, 2=step-X 3=dir-X
[23:10:39] <andypugh> (I am assuming it is not wired directly :-)
[23:11:10] <pingufan> When I connect my frequency generator to the pins, the mill moves.
[23:11:44] <andypugh> That's a start
[23:11:54] <pingufan> In that case I have TTL level (5V)
[23:12:19] <pingufan> Now I would try to switch the spindle off from the PC.
[23:12:32] <andypugh> Without the P-port connected the spindle stops?
[23:13:22] <pingufan> Yes. Verified that right now.
[23:14:10] <pingufan> can I manually enter a HAL command ?
[23:14:22] <andypugh> Yes.
[23:14:40] <pingufan> Must leave EMC before?
[23:15:01] <andypugh> Not necessarily
[23:15:21] <andypugh> Just go to Machine -> Show HAL configuration
[23:16:11] <andypugh> See if the parallel port pin 1 value changes when you press spindle-start and spindle-stop
[23:17:59] <pingufan> Where shall spindle start/stop be?
[23:19:12] <SWPadnos> too funny. Weezer is playing at the fair tonight
[23:19:32] <andypugh> On the axis screen. (Probably)
[23:19:48] <SWPadnos> so naturally I broke out my Windows 95 CD, which has a Weezer video (and an actual good one from Edie Brickell)
[23:19:51] <andypugh> Manual (F3) tab
[23:21:04] <andypugh> Alternatively, in HAL configuration, select "pins" -> "parport" -> "0" and then click "pin-01-out" and see what the right-side pane says
[23:21:35] <pingufan> I must somehow start emc through ssh. No room on the screen.
[23:23:26] <andypugh> Ihave set mine to 800x600 in sympathy. It is a bit cramped isn't it
[23:23:49] <andypugh> If you don't have EMC running, try it this way:
[23:24:05] <andypugh> In the terminal, type "halrun"
[23:24:36] <pingufan> Realtime already running.
[23:24:55] <andypugh> Do you still have EMC running?
[23:25:06] <pingufan> Yes.
[23:25:21] <andypugh> OK.
[23:25:47] <pingufan> Can I start the monitoring program through ssh?
[23:26:06] <pingufan> But run EMC through vnc ?
[23:26:10] <andypugh> I am not sure
[23:26:15] <andypugh> Try this:
[23:26:34] <andypugh> halcmd unlinkp parport.0.pin-01-out
[23:27:14] <pingufan> Ok, I entered that through SSH. Nothing changed.
[23:27:52] <andypugh> halcmd setp parport.0.pin-01-out false
[23:28:01] <SWPadnos> you can use X over shh to run a GUI, yes
[23:28:19] <SWPadnos> but you have to run ssh -X for it to forward X requests
[23:28:42] <pingufan> tried both: with false and true. Spindle runs.
[23:29:08] <andypugh> Do you have a multimeter? We need to see if the port is changing state
[23:29:40] <pingufan> Sure. I unplug the mill and prepare that.
[23:31:10] <andypugh> Anybody else got any ideas?
[23:31:39] <andypugh> Without a circuit sketch it's hard to diagnose.
[23:32:16] <pingufan> Permanently +4.4 Volts
[23:32:37] <andypugh> Do you have the correct base-address for the P-port?
[23:32:54] <pingufan> I'l look in the BIOS what is configured. Good idea ?
[23:33:30] <andypugh> Hopefully somebody more linux-geeky than me knows how to check?
[23:33:32] <SWPadnos> personally, I'd use halcmd instead of halshow. I'm never sure when halshow actually updates things
[23:33:44] <SWPadnos> halcmd unlinkp parport.0.pin-01-out
[23:33:48] <andypugh> We were using halcmd
[23:33:58] <SWPadnos> halcmd setp parport.0.pin-01-out 1
[23:34:00] <SWPadnos> halcmd setp parport.0.pin-01-out 0
[23:34:05] <SWPadnos> ok
[23:34:39] <SWPadnos> I didn't see full instructions on using halrun - did you actually do that?
[23:35:03] <SWPadnos> (halrun -I / loadrt hal_parport / setp parport.0.pin-01-out ... )
[23:35:05] <andypugh> He had EMC running, so halrun complained and quit
[23:35:11] <SWPadnos> ah, of course
[23:35:31] <pingufan> $378 / SPP -> Should be fine.
[23:35:51] <andypugh> Do you need EPP mode?
[23:36:06] <pingufan> Or should I switch to ECP ?
[23:36:09] <andypugh> (That is a question)
[23:36:14] <SWPadnos> SPP should be fine for OUT mode with no smart hardware attached
[23:36:14] <pingufan> or EPP ?
[23:36:25] <SWPadnos> EPP is necessary for Mesa, Pico, Pluto
[23:37:04] <andypugh> The 4.4V is from pin1 to one of the earth pins?
[23:37:06] <pingufan> So (as pin 1 is /strobe) it is output
[23:37:15] <pingufan> Yes.
[23:37:22] <SWPadnos> yes. pin 1 is always output
[23:37:30] <andypugh> It's hardware inverted for fun, I think, too
[23:37:48] <pingufan> And it is in "idle", as it is high.
[23:37:49] <andypugh> But I think EMC2 knows that
[23:37:58] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:38:13] <SWPadnos> if you set the pin to 1, you'll get 5V (or high anyway) on the output
[23:38:14] <pingufan> Anyway. If I manually set it to true or false, it must change once.
[23:38:25] <SWPadnos> 1 or 0, I don't know that true and false work
[23:38:43] <pingufan> Ah! we tried true and false!
[23:38:47] <andypugh> They do, I was testing on my VM config
[23:39:38] <SWPadnos> ok. (I figure you'd have gotten an error, but at least there's no question with 1 and 0)
[23:40:07] <andypugh> I always think TRUE = -1
[23:40:25] <andypugh> (Or FF)
[23:40:44] <andypugh> But that doesn't matter right now
[23:41:03] <pingufan> Indeed.
[23:41:15] <andypugh> I am trying to think of other ways to test a p-port
[23:41:36] <pingufan> This is the onboard parallel port, btw.
[23:41:37] <andypugh> A printer, maybe?
[23:42:16] <pingufan> Difficult, but not impossible.
[23:42:29] <pingufan> Let me see what I have here...
[23:43:42] <andypugh> There is probably something in Linux that is helpful, but I am a total Linux noob, I only touch it to start and stop EMC2.
[23:44:14] <andypugh> Even the little bit of EMC2 dev work I do is done on my Mac and only compiled on the Linux box.
[23:44:33] <jthornton> cradek: it is a set of metric ER40's from 3 to 17 with a holder thingy
[23:45:02] <andypugh> That's a low top end for ER40
[23:45:41] <andypugh> (Incidentally, Metric ER collets are better than Imperial, as Imperial sets have gaps...)
[23:46:36] <andypugh> So I read, anyway. I might be passing on duff info.
[23:47:00] <jthornton> you just say that cause your metric :P
[23:47:31] <andypugh> Not entirely.
[23:47:38] <jthornton> lol
[23:47:43] <andypugh> I guess in feet, inches and thou
[23:47:45] <jthornton> just kidding
[23:48:00] <andypugh> I measure and calculate in metric.
[23:48:22] <jthornton> it is much easier to calculate in metric...
[23:48:42] <andypugh> I know I am 5'8" and 13st4lb, but have no idea what I am in SI.
[23:48:52] <jthornton> hmmm 6 x 1 tap I need a 5mm drill that is so easy
[23:49:31] <pingufan> Ok, I connected an old EPSON LQ printer...
[23:50:39] <andypugh> It is going to be one of those "Yes it works so the P-port is good" or "No, it doesn't work, but that could be any number of other issues" thing isn't it?
[23:52:25] <pingufan> How do i add it to Ubuntu?
[23:53:01] <andypugh> I was hoping you would know.
[23:53:06] <SWPadnos> system -> administration -> search for printers or something like that
[23:53:23] <pingufan> Ha! Me and GNOME+Ubuntu. :)
[23:53:52] <pingufan> Wait, doesn't PrintScreen in BIOS wo something?
[23:54:05] <andypugh> Until I built my EMC2 box I had never owned a parallel port..
[23:54:37] <jthornton> my first parallel port was on an 8086
[23:54:51] <andypugh> So, tell us how to test one then :-)
[23:55:29] <pingufan> Ha, Mine was on a Janich & Class 8080 machine! 64kB RAM (yes, you read correctly), and CP/M as OS.
[23:55:43] <andypugh> I am going to have to leave you to it, I have an 8am meeting, and that is 7 hours from now.
[23:55:50] <jthornton> my "The PC Technical Source-Book" circa 1988 might have the info
[23:56:00] <andypugh> Except.. Hah! My first computer had 1k or RAM.
[23:56:42] <pingufan> Hmm - Ok, I will also go to bed. 02:00 is late enough. Tomorrow is another day.
[23:56:44] <andypugh> But I doubled the cost with an extra 16k soon afterwards.
[23:56:54] <tom3p> 512 bytes, cosmac 1802 (beat that :)
[23:57:12] <andypugh> Actually, at 2am tomorrow becomes the same day, I think
[23:57:13] <SWPadnos> no computer at all - beat that!
[23:57:28] <pingufan> 12F509 Microcontroller. 16 Bytes of RAM
[23:57:34] <tom3p> pencil & paper turing wins
[23:57:38] <jthornton> well I did start with a stick and some dirt
[23:57:52] <SWPadnos> abacus, then slide rule, then I don't remember which :)
[23:57:53] <andypugh> A stick? Luxury! We had to make do with our fingers.
[23:58:04] <tom3p> i bet it was pointed too
[23:58:10] <pingufan> Ok, good night. But tomorrow I will simply boot good old DOS and see what happens. ;)
[23:58:11] <SWPadnos> and we had to burn them to make the charcoal
[23:58:30] <andypugh> Oooh! Fire! hark at him!
[23:58:34] <jthornton> I still have my DOS 6.something disks
[23:58:54] <jthornton> we did use some walrus tusks in the winter
[23:58:54] <pingufan> Me, too.
[23:59:17] <SWPadnos> I didn't say we had fire to burn our fingers with, just that we had to burn them :)
[23:59:18] <andypugh> Yeah, first step has to be to make sure that the port works at all (might need BIOS enabling, or a jumper, or something technical)
[23:59:40] <andypugh> Night all
[23:59:51] <jthornton> goodnight Andy