theorb is now known as theorbtwo
This is a little off-topic, but there are a lot of clever people here, so here goes: I want to take a screenshot of Google's main page where I have pasted in (for example) blah blahblah and the little drop-down box says, Did you mean "blah blah blah"? But every time I try to take a screenshot using the usual tools, it kills Google's drop-down box, which was to be the point of the photo. Any suggestions?
Ubuntu 8.04, would 10.04 do better? I'll try it...
No, 10.04 doesn't work any better.
then type "sleep 10; scrot /tmp/screenshot.png" in a terminal window
then you will have 10 seconds to produce the screen you want, and it will be saved as /tmp/screenshot.png
Ha, thanks, you beat me to it. I was just going to report that I got it to work by installing "shutter" from Synaptic, but your idea of a time delay is the same, so thank you!
And I will probably install scrot also, thanks again.
and you can put the delay right into the command
scrot -d 10 name_of_pic.png
Good morning from germany
all mashines are up and running
trying to overcome some problems with fagor control and toolchange position
morning. trying to drink some coffee...
awallin: get it Hot
And Dark B)
Hi, I finished my optocoupler-breakout-board. I use 13 pcs of PC123-A , 9 of them from PC -> MILL (pins 1..9 of D-SUB25), and 4 of them for MILL -> PC (pins 10..13).
pingufan: nice, you should post the schematic and pcb on the wiki or somewhere. you are using this on the parallel port?
My idea is to use pin 1 (strobe) for switching the spindle on/off (high = on), and to use pins 2..7 (D0..D5) for the three stellers.
steppers, I meant.
I this ok for EMC2?
awallin: I will post that. As this is a simple 1-sided PCB layout with cheap parts, this is surely of interest to more users.
Should make no problems with self-making.
Is my layout basically OK or does my pin assignment cause troubles? I currently used a frequency generator to generate up to 35kHz of step pulses, this worked very fine.
pingufan: no problems with any pin assignments in emc21
Perfect. So I will insert the whole electronics now into my mill. What are usual turns/inch for axis-spindles? Is 8 revotions/inch usual?
measure/count there is no usual
I see. Thank you. I am also reading the "Getting Started Guide v2.4". The guide mentions nothing (and I think this is more than important) about a connected mill during the latency test. I guess that it must not be connected or switched on?
i get realtime delay error in axis but not in other gui. is it smth with my PC? i ran latency test several times. in gnome and in xfce the result is the same.
latency test is there to test latency, it wont tell you that there is an "error" with it
pingufan: there is no need for any hardware to be in place to run a latency test
manual says to run latency test and start emc again
[10:07:07] <mk0> http://best.of.by/paste/d53d3388d
Valen: Exactly. But this can be mis-understood. "There is no need to..." means, that it is not necessary, but also not forbidden. This is wrong, when the latency-test outputs anything on the parallel port. The right words would be "There must nothing be connected to the parallel port during the latency test".
is it a bug that i can't close the message window in axis 2.4.3,
mostly the error messages but lately my messages are not closing
piasdom: close how?
ctrl-space? or [x] ?
I think I saw something related, hang on
didn't know about ctrl space
the x moves lie it's working
can i try ctrl-space while mill is running or will it do something i don't want :) ?
Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
ctrl-space closed all msg's
piasdom: click on Help/Quick Reference
jthornton: thanks ...
pingufan, the latency test should not output anything on the parallel port
so it's not necessary, nor is it forbidden, to have a machine attached
Thank you. Should be mentioned in the guide clearly.
Such questions may appear strange to those who work long time with EMC2, but newcomers need that details.
strange thing. if i boot from live cd, i have no realtime delay error, and after installation i get it. maybe nvidia driver does smth? ubuntu 10.04 from cnclinux, emc2 2.4.3.
mk0: try running it with the vga driver, that mighthelp
pingufan: there is no reason to not have anything connected to the parallel port
BobCrap is on sale for 50% off and it is still too high lol
JT-Work: CrapDepot I know, what's BobCrap?
Heh, looks like he pays google to be top ranked
but forgot to top his website hosting as the site is not responding
does hyper-threading effect latency ?
i lost a step somewhere and messed up a part
Been there, done that x5
i have some momentary buttons on my new control panel, connected to mesa gpios so they show up as bit pins in hal
i poked through the motion manpage but couldnt see how to hook the buttons up to give me continuous jog when i hold then down
maybe i'm bad at reading...
for continuous jog you have to use halui
motion itself only does wheel jogs
i see it, thanks!
i'll hook it up tonight :-)
well you have to use axis+halui or touchy (touchy itself has continuous jog button inputs)
what do i have to use axis for?
did you get a touchscreen or are you sticking with AXIS for a while?
i haven't bought a touchscreen yet
I meant use halui with AXIS the gui
what will your panel use to set the jog speed? or do you just want rapids?
my plan for now is to just do rapids with the continuous jog buttons, and use the wheel for fine stuff
i have a rotary that selects .0001, .001, or .010 for each wheel click
and i ran out of inputs on my 7i37 so i only have continuous buttons for Z, not for x & y... :-(
your xyz rotary switch could change the axis for the continuous buttons too
does the touchscreen act like an additional mouse?
yes, like a weird mouse
cradek: that's a good idea
and i actually have one more input, so i could make the xyz rotary into an x/y/z/jogspeed selector, then use the jogwheel to change the continuous jog speed...
seb_kuzminsky: I'm not so sure it is - you'll probably use "Z up" 100 times for every time you want any other continuous jog button
seb_kuzminsky: touchy uses the wheel exactly like that
maybe even require the rotary switch to be in the continuous position to both activate the buttons and use the wheel for speed
do you have 2-monitor setups where the touch-screen is for touching and an AXIS 3d view on another monitor?
nope I haven't done that. I write/preview my gcode on a different computer and copy it to the machine when it's ready.
(I use AXIS on the other machine to preview and check it)
i sometimes find it useful to look at the axis preview and manually jog around the outline to make sure i miss all the clamps, i think that's a feature i'd miss if i switched to touchy
I understand the preview part of AXIS is now available separately ("gremlin") so it could be stuck on a touchy tab. I don't know the details though.
nothing in the wiki about "gremlin"
I'm working slowly on a cutting simulation, that would be nice too...
right now touchy is very lightweight and always extrememly responsive - I'm kind of hesitant to give that up. AXIS can easily get fairly slow with big gcode programs.
(but I bet just being able to turn the preview on and off would help that a lot.)
hi all from germany
Tech_Talk is now known as Birdman3131
hello, is there a way to get the value of emcmot_command_t.motion_type to hal
motion could be made to do it, just like how it gives program-line and current-vel etc
I'd be happy to review a patch to git-master that adds this functionality
so I just copy & paste and send a git patch ?
well something like that.
Ok, I'll try that
[16:53:58] <JT-Work> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Git#Prepare_commits_to_share_with_fellow_developers
srpski is now known as Dannyboy
Why im not promted in the wiki to overright a existing file ? it just uploads it!
addeted Circel grid G-code ->http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/250810192728_grid_v1_circelgrid.png
Hoe is the standart for the first move you go with it
Z-safe then position
or position then Zsafe
iso is Zsafe first
still someone here ?
JUST FYI.... MSC took multiple promo coupons, free shipping and 25% off first order.
35% off cutting tools today too
[17:42:16] <Jymmm> http://www.retailmenot.com/view/mscdirect.com
promo code ctb35w
im in germany so it not depends on me
JT-Work: Yeah, i had to get soem gas springs, was like $4 short of free shipping, then added sharpie markers, then added the 25% off first order =)
I usually have enough gas to spring me up
thats what I'm afraid of, and why I placed the order =)
Now to hit HF today and buy a dust collector *sigh*
IchGuckLive: yes /
I'm not happy about it, but really not much choice
how went the calibration
Jymmm: this looks noicy
IchGuckLive: didn't get a chance yet .... need to get these parts out ... hoping not to mess up any more parts :) , but will let you kow
IchGuckLive: Thats why I'm not happy about it, but at least it's speed controllable so that may help some
speed control means less power
what dust to collect wood
That's fine, being used for ventilation, not particals. for exhaust of laser engraver
[17:54:33] <IchGuckLive> http://www.rofin.de/index.php?L=1
thats what my naibour working for
Nah, just 30W =)
Jymmm: is it watercoold at that powerlevel
the new Neodyn are nice
ok ba for today now only the circulargrid with individuell lines is left to get to the g-code generator
Ok, they're fscking with me... yesterday they had stock, today maybe 1 *sigh*
[20:21:53] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CNC-Lathe-Back-Auto-Tool-Changer-/250687278583
Might be of use to somebody
andy.. seems like a really good deal ...
AndyPugh: I have a few questions about the motor commutation work you did for brushless motors .... is there any documentation on using those components?
I was really busy when you were doing that and wasn't able to keep up with you.... while you were writing the components
There are the man pages, but if you have any other questions, just ask. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/bldc_hall3.9.html
If you have a motor, and a Hostmot2 bitfile with three-phase PWM with a hall-sensor motor then the best plan is just to cycle through all the patterns in "Show HAL config" until the motor spins quietly
andypugh: Sorry long phone call.. Is there one motor driver board that this component was tested with? Are there others that are also compatible? Are you happy with the results?
It is so-far only tested with the Mesa 7i39
And yes, I am very happy with the results.
hello everybody! I need some help. /usr/realtime/modules/emc2/hal_parport.ko won't load (It's a kernel module of which EMC depends on) but there is a problem. My kernel was compiled without parallel support and the module is trying to load certain symbols which isn't included with my kernel. I was wondering if anybody knows what options to have on or set as a module under "Parallel port Support" under the kernel config. If you have no idea what I am t
alking about and you are using the EMC ubuntu live CD or have already installed it, please post the output of the following command to pastebin.com: cat /boot/config-`uname -r` | grep PARPORT and if you could please post all lines to pastebin.com to help me solve my issue, that would be great. Thank you so so much!
NTU: Do you _have_ to use your current kernel? It might be easier to use the pre-packaged kernel, then it should "Just work"
andypugh: Cool... I think I am going to try and implement something later this fall/winter and see what I can do with that. Thanks for all of the effort.. I can tell it was a lot of work.
andypugh: I am adding support for linux distros of which are not supported by EMC
Actually, it wasn't too bad. And I learned an awful lot about motors in the process.
andypugh: Did the Mesa 7i39 work well with those big motors you bought off ebay?
No, not at all, the voltage is way too high for the 7i39.
OK... I didn't remember the specs other than they looked pretty big! :-)
NTU: Which distros are you trying to implement and why? .. just curious
I will be experimenting with an 8I20 fairly soon, but the real plan is to replace the Arduino in this setup with a 3ppwm from EMC2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyeJfNg3NfQ
That is basically a rectifier, capacitor and a £12 smart power module (IRAMS10UP60A)
well right now I'm doing Arch Linux, and the reason why is because I don't use Ubuntu, nor do I want to.
Fair enough, but personally I can't be bothered to care what OS my dedicated CNC PCs use.
I agree Andy ..... Ubuntu works reliably and the price is right ..
But, anyway, that cat / grep syntax didn't work for me.
make sure its ` and not '
apostrophe != the wavy thingy. whatever its called ;)
All a bit tricky, that is.
It is "`" in this window, but "§" in the EMC VM window
You probably need someone who isn't using a UK Mac keyboard under OSX and running the EMC machine as a VM.
I think you meant "~" ??
andypugh.... you lead a complex life.. ;-)
I'll give it a shot .... I have an emc system running right behind me .. be back in a minute..
Thank you! :D
The real pain is that I have no idea how to get # on the VM or SSH to the live machine. That makes editing HAL file comments a bit tricky
andypugh: You can force a different keyboard map via xorg.conf
There is no # on the keyboard though (It's Alt-£)
what is probe in on the parallel port pin out?
or just use something like "setckbmap dvorak" or something similar
so, the detroit hackerspace just got a 14x40 lathe
thoughts on the cost to make that bugger cnc?
NTU: I had problems with the command line ... so I pastebined he entire config rtai file... so you can sort it out ... here it is: http://pastebin.com/Dj6xJ5n4
its in great condition and doesnt need any rebuilding
That was off of a 2.4.0 installation
Also with Ubuntu 10.04 .... so I hope that is what you were looking for .. No problem .. that PC is literally 3 steps away
packrat: Is that a manual lathe?
packrat: I guess minimum is about $150. The more you spend, the more useful it gets.
yeah I found all the PARPORT options I needed. Now that I finally have the kernel config nailed down pretty solid, it should be very easy to add support to fedora, and others
EMC and RTAI for everybody!
NTU: Nice ..
Dave911, yeah. its an Acer 1440g, if that means anything
packrat: I reckon my lathe conversion came to $1500 all-in, the little stuff adds up pretty quickly.
packrat: Are you in Detroit?
but, close enoguh
gah, cant type today
I'm near Fort Wayne, IN .. not that far..
also, ugh. 1500
thats a helluvalot
we also have a mill
so we can cut our own adapters and such
I have been trading time for money a fair bit
Lots of nice machine tools floating around the Detroit area right now
if that defrays costs much
Dave911, you'd be surprised
theyre not as nice as you may think
But things like timing pulleys and belts soon add up.
michigan weather + sitting in warehouse for a few years = ugh
ah, are those really that expensive?
No, $20 a time. But it all adds up
how many does one need?
Michigan weather ... tell me about it .. we have more humidity and crappy winter weather than you do.. hard to believe .... I grew up in Livonia.
heh. i lived in grand rapids for a long while
that was really fun in the winter
So you know about snow.. ;-)
I could not live in the snow belt on the west side of the state .. way too much white stuff.
We get an inch.. they get a foot..
packrat: Lump of Aluminium, in a hurry, eBay, $20.
packrat: Have you looked for a used CNC lathe with a busted control?? A much easier conversion process ....
I could burn through $1500 easy converting a manual lathe and when you are done you still have lead screws, not ball screws etc..
If you shop Ebay very carefully you can get some very good deals on motors and drives, but it take a lot of patience and time...
I think you can just about get ballscrews into the $1500
Oh yea ...
Dave911, its a bit late to look for busted cncs
we already have on lathe
spent 2k on it
If you can pickup a broken CNC lathe for $1000 you might be a lot further along ... many people run from broken CNC machines.. and they sell for less than scrap value since you have to move them to the junkyard
weve never been that lucky
usually end up being outbid by others with more money than us
packrat: Cheapest ballscrews I have found...
anyways, its waaay too late to try and dump this for a cnc
They are around... craigslist works well also.. Try out Craiglook.com no bidding there.
yeah, we got the lathe on craigslist
[21:59:12] <andypugh> http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/sf1605-single-ballnut-p-443.html?cPath=39_128_131
[21:59:17] <packrat> http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/mat/1912674047.html
though isnt there usually slop in ball screws?
No, though there might be elasticity. You need double ones to get zero backlash and stiffness
The double ones you can preload between the nuts - getting rid of backlash
i was reading someone did a conversion of a bridgeport
was all "wtf is this slop"
anyways, ya'll think those are good screws?
That is the problem with sticking with leadscrews... how do you deal with the backlash?? Backlash is a big problem in CNC land.. There is really no good way to compensate for it without big compromise
thats why you have direct positional feedback though
Could be great, could be junk. $75 is dirt cheap Ask lots of questions
for that matter, i figured thats where the most cost would be
Do you mean scales?
backlash isn't fixed with scales, they just let you see how far your machine wanders
I thought glass scales dont do good on rapids?
A lot of them can't update quickly ..
why is that
I know that's true with the chinese scales people try to use (the ones from large calipers or such)
Many CNC machines can run fast rapids which outrun the ability of the scales to keep up.. It is like everything else, performance oftentimes costs $
Can anyone think of a "common" audio level reference that can be recorded and compared to other things?
andypugh: say what?
(Not much help, I suspect)
andypugh: Maybe, if I knew wth it is =)
[22:07:47] <andypugh> http://www.bksv.com/products/telecomaudiosolutions/electroacousticsaccessories/pistonphonetype4228.aspx
oh, looks $$$$$$$$$
No, kinda like I said this generator/fan/blow/motor is "this loud"
I was thinking the $ame.
Ah, more like $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Why not just get a sound pressure meter??
Dave911: Do you have one?
That's for calibrating SPLs
No ... but I know the audio guys use them all of the time ... for setting up shows etc..
Dave911: Would do much good if I sent you a recording to compare with =)
I'm talking common that you would find arond the house/shop sorta thing
I could adjust my speakers to match what you want .. ;-)
Dave911: That's the issue, adjust them to what level =)
It's not trivial
andypugh: True enough
There is a music store just west of me ... let me check their website ...
But if there's something commonplace that wew all coudl compare against, that might work
[22:12:50] <Dave911> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=sound+meter&go=Search
Just think about it over the next few days and see what you a\can HEAR around your homes that might work for others
Wike Decibel, you will probably find a rough scale
I'm with Andy .... not trivial..
Rs has an audio db meter,
but not everyone does
Jymmm.. what are you trying to compare ??
Dave911: anythign really
Like a gas lawn mower to a ??
anything 40dBa or higher
They would pay me a lot less if it was trivial, I work on vehicle NVH
andy.. what is NVH?
Left column "Generator sound level comparison" http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail§ion=P2GG&modelname=EU2000i&modelid=EU2000IAN
compressors, power tools, gas tools, window AC, etc
Noise Vibration Harshness
I want to record all kinds of things, then use them to compare other things
Ohhh.. hey.. generators are oftentimes judged by the noise at 23 feet or so ... can you talk normally and understand what another person is saying who is in front of you ..... that translates into x decibels for a generator
blender, microwave, frig, etc
Dave911: I can talk at normal level around mine generator
Put the generator in your kitchen next to your blender, start it up and see which is louder :-)
Jymmm.. I know you can.. I remember :-) I'm still jealous.. ;-)
inside a car at idle, 65dB. Underneath Concorde at 1000ft takeoff 130 dB
[22:19:28] <SWPadnos> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103668
[22:19:38] <SWPadnos> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103667
SWPadnos: Yeah, planning on borrwing one of those. But not eveyone has one
but if you have one, then you can measure all the things you want
Andy... when is Ford going to start exporting some of those cool Euro diesel engines to the USA?? After we got low sulphur diesel a bunch of engines were suppose to show up in cars here.. hasn't happened yet!
recording and playing back sounds isn't very scientific
SWPadnos: But ppl have cordless drills, microwave ovens, cars, fans, etc
SWPadnos: And I'm not a scientist, I just play one on IRC
sure, but they can't record and play back at the same level very accurately
SWPadnos: That's the point
um. so your idea of recording sounds to compare is not viable
in any case, I have to dash your hopes and run. see you later ;)
SWPadnos: If I record a microwave oven, then someone plays it back and adhusts to the level of their simular oven, it would give a good comparison
You should get my engine in the new Mondeo some time next year
but i want to find a good refernce
Currently I am driving a 200hp 2.2 litre showing 37mpg on the trip gauge, but it has only been used round town so far.
Cool ... Mondeo .. I'll look that up. Can you buy a Ford Fiesta in Europe with a diesel?? Not here! But at least we have the Fiesta again..
200 hp from 2.2 liter ... is that a gas engine??
Yes, we have diesel Fiestas in 1.4 and 1.6 diesel. They hit 60+ mpg
Dave911: Turbo Diesel
Why don't they bring those over here?? Wow.. a 2.2 liter 200 hp turbo diesel .. :-)
Ford and GM must think that US folks don't like diesels ...
The problem is LA. Because you have a very big, very hot city in a deep hole you have NOx legislation that diesels really struggle to meet.
No problem... ban their sale in CA. We still have 49 other states ...
LA is simply a mess from an air standpoint. It always has been. It is like our Mexico City..
Actually LA is a mess period.. I used to travel there quite a bit. Their freeways are sometimes mistaken for parking lots..
I think a Fiesta Turbo Diesel would be a huge hit in this country....
We had a bunch of North America bigwigs came to try the euro cars a few months back "That a nice car, but we really came to try the diesels" "this one is a diesel" "no, really?"
Jymmm: our scales seem to keep up fine
at 6 meters a minute
heh my car gets ~ less than half that
4L and about 200hp
hmm.. what's good price range for used but in good shape "Made in China" lathes?... I found few in one place with ~1HP 1P motor, ~30" between centers
I wouldn't. Mine seized up last night. SOmebody forgot to drill the oil hole for the spindle bearing.
our chinese mill, the screw for the gib wasnt tapped all the way through
so you did it up tight, but it still rattled
Buy something second hand made in the US, UK, or germany in about 1960
Spindle bearings ought to run in an oil bath, not occasional drip feed when the user remembers..
our spindle bearings actually run on the casting itself
I found a shop outside Chicago selling everything, mills, plasma cutters, mig welders, lathes, band saws etc etc
he's trying to sell me the whole lot
heh a small premium on scrap value i'd wager
all pretty new stuff, miller migs and plasma cutters, the only junk seems to be the 3 lathes
build vs buy as always..... emc2 really changes the way you look at machines
you have emc2 goggles on?
any feedback on these? http://www.gunhead.com/GMW/index.html
I saw it and thought "ewww" then saw the price, and was aghast.
L84Supper, it is really, really small
$2500 put together>
is it cast in silver or something>
does it use steppers with superconducting wire?
yeah, full price is crazy
and for a machine that small..
have you ever seen a 7x14 lathe?
like, in real life
also they are really bad at programing for it
[23:24:02] <alex_chally> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7asZDiJPXj8&feature=player_embedded#t=5m6s
why would you plunge like that on every pass?
why not start from the other side and ease into the cut properly?
Hands up everyone who has ever thought "gee! I wish this lathe was smaller!"
maybe they're popular with watchmakers?
L84Supper, they all use the sherline stuff
the only watchmaker i know personally uses a monarch 10EE
and a little ittbitty collet set on it
lots of small cnc hobby machines I'm not aware of
when they say "metal lathe" they are talking about what its made out of right?
it sounds noisy even before its cutting anything
I think the mood of the room is "unimpressed"
"those are just the bearings settling in, they quite down after the check clears"
like the backlash
L84Supper, I would get something like this instead
[23:32:26] <alex_chally> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vw50-ApDc&feature=related
for a close up
[23:32:39] <alex_chally> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmRkBx_qCqc&feature=related
I do have room for it now :)
do they have a video of the bolt that goes with that?
I can't imagine why you would ever design that as a threaded joint
andypugh, i was trying to figure that out myself
I have never seen a thread that large
wtf do you turn it with?
a huuuuuuuge strap wrench?
hand me the 13' 6" spanner.... it's next to the 20' #10 phillips
well, now that i think about it for a second
if they had some mechanisim built into the structure that is attached to for threading it and unthreading it
it could be pretty easy
some gear on the outside that drives it or something
if for some reason it needed regular maintinance
it would suck to have to undo 150 bolts every time you needed to take it apart
typed in MIG, I probably should have specified the welder vs the aircraft
you can use them to hold a bridge up perhaps? http://media.photobucket.com/image/harbor%20bridge%20bolts/Asquith1/SHB09.jpg
though that is a little larger
shaft seal on a big container ship prop or something like that would be my guess
150 small bolts will give you hugely more clamping force
[23:45:18] <andypugh> http://superbolt.com/
i'm guessing it was done for a good reason
Lots of little ones is just better
Valen: feel fortunate then =)
Valen: Oh, I agree. I am curious what, though.
y'all are a bunch of nerds
's why i recon its some kind of a shaft seal
probably goes on the spinning bit
I still maintain that there was probably a cheaper design available.
perhaps, but if it means taking the shaft out of a container ship to drill and tap 400 M8 bolts into it then it might still be cheaper to do it this way
its probably not that expensive anyway
i mean you get a bit of plasma cut 6" plate steel pretty cheap
if the guy has the big lathe sitting there its not going to cost billions to get it cut
If it was a CNC lathe, then it is different, but it does not seem to be.
if its a one off like that its probably cheaper to pay a guy to machine it (it looks pretty simple) than to get the gcode written
take the same amount of time overall, except this way your paying some guy ~ minimum wage vs an IT guy
I thread stuff because I can't be bothered to set up the welder on the CNC (and with totally wierd threads to suit, too)
I want to do CnC welding ;->
Valen, I would not put someone who was making min wage on a machine like that
give him the beer after he finishes