#emc | Logs for 2010-08-10

[00:32:09] <geo01005_home> geo01005_home is now known as geo01005
[02:31:17] <Mendel|beer> Mendel|beer is now known as Mendel|bored
[03:04:31] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[03:08:38] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmm> Jymmmmmmmmmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm
[03:10:38] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm> Jymmmmmmmmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmmmmmm
[03:16:04] <Jymmmmmmmmmmmm> Jymmmmmmmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmmmmm
[03:24:27] <Jymmmmmmmmmmm> Jymmmmmmmmmmm is now known as Jymmm
[03:59:20] <Srpski> Srpski is now known as Dannyboy
[05:15:22] <elmo40> Jymmm: bored?
[05:35:31] <archivist> logger_emc: bookmark
[05:35:31] <archivist> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-08-10.txt
[06:55:42] <Mendel|bored> hi all
[07:01:11] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[07:10:46] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[08:39:01] <mrsun> mrsun is now known as MrSmb
[10:01:07] <piasdom> hi
[10:03:12] <piasdom> yeaterday i ran a program(mill not on) and i saw it skip a command(x .01) is that my max jitter which is about 32000 right now ?
[10:04:11] <piasdom> computer is runnning slow and graphic card(radeon hd4550) not right
[10:05:03] <piasdom> but i'm not worried about the card( emc works) unless THAT is the problem
[10:07:58] <piasdom> had my base_period at 45000 untill yesterday when i jumped it up to 50000
[10:24:52] <micges_work> piasdom: what means skip a command ?
[10:30:34] <piasdom> was moving to x.01 the was suppose to go to y.01, but didn't go to y.01..... when to command after that x0 y0
[10:44:33] <piasdom> section of code .... http://pastebin.com/z6tCcDwG
[10:55:29] <alex_joni> http://softsolder.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/ten-pound-hershey-bar.jpg
[11:24:54] <micges_work> piasdom: do you have g64 mode in gcode?
[11:25:41] <piasdom> yes
[11:26:01] <piasdom> micges_work: yes .005
[11:26:35] <piasdom> g64 p.005 q.005
[11:27:11] <alex_joni> q?
[11:27:57] <micges_work> alex_joni: p - blen tolerance value, q - naive cam tolerance value
[11:28:11] <micges_work> I've splitted it in 2.4
[11:30:11] <piasdom> alex_joni: that's what i saw in info
[11:37:29] <micges_work> piasdom: try with q = 0
[11:37:48] <micges_work> should be ok
[11:39:05] <piasdom> micges_work: k Thanks
[11:39:52] <piasdom> micges_work: the higher the value, the tighter the tolerance ?
[11:45:24] <micges_work> yes
[11:45:47] <alex_joni> err?
[11:46:06] <alex_joni> higher value = more tolerance
[11:46:51] <piasdom> thanks
[11:51:57] <micges_work> sorry I've readed 'higher tolerance' :P
[11:52:26] <micges_work> * micges_work need more coffee
[11:56:23] <piasdom> does the help with all motion or it more for g2,g3 ? and do i really need it just to cut pockets ?
[12:07:59] <alex_joni> piasdom: any motion
[12:08:12] <alex_joni> but more likely to be noticed on G1's
[12:11:48] <piasdom> alex_joni: thanks ... i would have know it if i wasn't watching the movements
[12:12:01] <piasdom> *wouldn't
[12:20:50] <cassie> cassie is now known as Guest84019
[14:34:06] <bricofoy> hi
[14:34:11] <bricofoy> someone here ?
[14:34:21] <bricofoy> problem with "touch off"
[14:34:29] <cpresser> tell us about it :)
[14:34:34] <cpresser> perhaps some1 can help
[14:34:37] <bricofoy> can't give any value different than "0"
[14:34:55] <bricofoy> if I try anything else, it say 'bad number format"
[14:35:02] <bricofoy> and the "ok" button turns gray
[14:35:08] <cradek> what emc version is this?
[14:35:17] <bricofoy> 2.4.0pre
[14:35:34] <bricofoy> from mozmck experimental packages
[14:36:00] <bricofoy> I ever had this problem before, but can't put a hand on the solution you guys gave me...
[14:36:28] <bricofoy> I'm sure I wrote it somewhere...but where ? :P
[14:36:42] <cradek> do you have a gcode program loaded?
[14:36:47] <bricofoy> yes
[14:36:59] <bricofoy> I can pastebin it if needed
[14:37:00] <cradek> can you pastebin it?
[14:37:03] <bricofoy> yep
[14:38:19] <bricofoy> here it is http://pastebin.ca/1914447
[14:38:34] <bricofoy> code works
[14:38:42] <bricofoy> but I'm unable to touche off
[14:39:00] <bricofoy> I can't put any value different than 0
[14:40:18] <bricofoy> something new : now when I try to touch off it says "unable to open file" in the touch off dialog
[14:40:24] <cradek> strange, I don't see a problem (on 2.4.2)
[14:40:32] <bricofoy> but still no way to enter any value
[14:40:44] <cradek> is your disk full or anything weird like that?
[14:40:50] <bricofoy> I know I had the problem and someone here gave me the solution
[14:40:51] <bricofoy> nope
[14:41:09] <cradek> what configuration are you running?
[14:41:18] <bricofoy> 3 axes
[14:41:49] <cradek> sim? sample config? one of your own making in your home directory?
[14:42:40] <bricofoy> my gluing machine config : something initially created with stepconf, then I moified a lot the HAL file
[14:43:02] <bricofoy> I just wanted to write something with the glue...
[14:43:28] <cradek> ok so it's in your home directory
[14:43:34] <bricofoy> yes
[14:44:00] <cradek> are permissions on the files correct? var file writable? directory writable?
[14:44:29] <bricofoy> for what I know, yes. I have not changed any file since the last time it worked right
[14:45:12] <cradek> try restarting emc and touch off before loading any file
[14:45:38] <bricofoy> So I must change my ini file
[14:45:46] <cradek> ?
[14:45:48] <bricofoy> as I load my guing program when EMC starts
[14:45:54] <bricofoy> gluing
[14:45:56] <elmo40> cradek: how much was that encored that you have on your spindle? http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/cnc/lathe/DSCN6300.JPG
[14:46:51] <cradek> elmo40: I did not buy it new. they are quite expensive.
[14:47:21] <cradek> guessing they are around $400
[14:47:33] <elmo40> thought so.
[14:47:43] <elmo40> that I my stumbling block.
[14:47:54] <bricofoy> cradek, same thing
[14:48:04] <bricofoy> when I open the touch off dialox box
[14:48:05] <cradek> bricofoy: I wonder if that's related to the behavior? something is different from when it worked...
[14:48:17] <bricofoy> whaever axe is selected
[14:48:53] <bricofoy> when i click in the box to enter the value, "unable to open file" appears underit, and "OK" button turns gray
[14:49:38] <bricofoy> For what I remind from the last time it happened, it was something quite stupid.
[14:50:03] <bricofoy> but I really can't find where I wrote the solution :/
[14:50:20] <cradek> when I click touch off, the dialog pops up. the number is highlighted already, so I can type a number, like 1
[14:50:33] <cradek> when I type 1, it says underneath "= 1.000000 in" and OK is active
[14:50:38] <cradek> can you say very exactly what you are doing
[14:51:40] <cradek> elmo40: hollow shaft encoders are expensive - a better way is to use a 1:1 toothed belt and a normal encoder
[14:52:10] <cradek> elmo40: then you can bore the pulley to whatever size you need
[14:54:49] <bricofoy> I home the machine, then load the file, then jog to where the job is, then click on "touch off", then the dialog pops up, with "0.0" selected. Unfortunately, 0 is not the right value for me, so I delete this zero then try to enter the value. At the moment I delete the "0.0" it says "bad number format", then I enter the value i need, and it says "unable to open file", an "OK" turns gray
[14:55:16] <cradek> how do you delete the value
[14:55:26] <bricofoy> as the 0.0 is selected, if enter the value without deleting with delete key, same thing, it says "unable to open file"
[14:55:26] <cradek> tell me what you click/type
[14:56:20] <bricofoy> just opening the touch off box then pressing "1" key and OK turns gray and the message "unable to open file" appears in the touch off box
[14:56:32] <cradek> ok
[14:56:51] <bricofoy> is there some way to search in IRC history ?
[14:57:04] <bricofoy> because this problem was solved here a few months ago
[14:57:05] <cradek> sometimes google but not very well.
[14:59:47] <Jymmm> Has anyone ever seen these "pins" off-the-shelf, or something like it? http://www.litografa.lt/index.php?aid=360
[15:00:45] <JT-Work> just in India Jymmm
[15:01:01] <Jymmm> JT-Work: What were they used for?
[15:01:09] <JT-Work> sleeping on
[15:01:09] <cradek> bricofoy: this was fixed May 17. update to the latest 2.4 release.
[15:01:12] <elmo40> I really am not a fan of the way those photos enlarge... drives me nuts.
[15:01:22] <Jymmm> JT-Work: I thought you were going to say that
[15:01:32] <JT-Work> sorry I could not resist
[15:01:54] <Jymmm> JT-Work: It's all good. But have you ever seen anything like that?
[15:02:18] <JT-Work> no, but it doesn't look complicated to make
[15:02:29] <JT-Work> how big is your table?
[15:02:48] <Jymmm> JT-Work: The table, no. The pins, yes. Especially with no lathe
[15:02:56] <Jymmm> 12x24"
[15:03:01] <cradek> bricofoy: when you tested without loading your program first, the problem should have gone away because the splash screen gcode does not have %. did you actually do that test?
[15:03:21] <elmo40> Jymmm: I have never seen the 'honey table' they are talking about.
[15:03:24] <JT-Work> how many pins do you think there are on a 12 x 24 table
[15:04:11] <Jymmm> JT-Work: looks those are 1.5" apart.
[15:04:56] <JT-Work> you looking at the image with the ruler?
[15:06:08] <Jymmm> JT-Work: I was thinking instead of a pure XY grid, to add in some zig-zag holes (just incase you have to support those odd-ball shapes.
[15:07:55] <Jymmm> I just wish I could make it out of MDF, less the formaldhyde.
[15:08:06] <bricofoy> cradek, OK you found it ! :) it reaaly was that damn "%"
[15:08:36] <bricofoy> yes I know i should upgrade, but for know it works fine for the production
[15:08:44] <Jymmm> JT-Work: Hmmmm, MDF + 1/8" dowel pins???
[15:08:56] <bricofoy> so I stays like that until I have some time left
[15:09:07] <bricofoy> thanks a lot ! :)
[15:09:18] <cradek> bricofoy: yes but it's pretty maddening to debug problems that are already solved
[15:09:31] <bricofoy> of course
[15:09:42] <bricofoy> will write this in a safe place this time :)
[15:09:55] <cradek> update instead
[15:10:01] <bricofoy> It planned to upgrade to 10.04 and the latest EMC version
[15:10:07] <bricofoy> it is planned
[15:12:43] <JT-Work> Jymmm: you could just get some 1/8 dowel pins and make a aluminum plate with a bunch of holes in it
[15:14:40] <Jymmm> JT-Work: I just thought about that design, in that I lose the ruler/edge along the top and side to align the workpiece to.
[15:15:27] <JT-Work> you could have longer pins on two sides to align the edges to
[15:16:57] <Jymmm> JT-Work: The plate needs to butt up againest the existing rulers/guides, the plate would need to overlap and be thick enough
[15:17:36] <Srpski> Srpski is now known as Dannyboy
[15:19:41] <Jymmm> I'd need something like this...
[15:19:53] <Jymmm> +---------------------------~
[15:19:54] <Jymmm> |
[15:19:54] <Jymmm> +-----+
[15:19:55] <Jymmm> |
[15:19:57] <Jymmm> +---------------------~
[15:20:14] <JT-Work> just need to mill a lip on your plate
[15:21:41] <Jymmm> JT-Work: Cool, can you ship it by Friday? ;)
[15:22:49] <JT-Work> I'm off friday sorry and my mill is too small to do 12x24 most I can do is about 9x24 If I had one like cradek I could do it...
[15:24:05] <Jymmm> JT-Work: Since the surface needs to be flat, what aluminum would you suggest?
[15:25:12] <JT-Work> 6061 should work... by flat do you mean 0.0001" per foot or something a little less flat
[15:26:46] <Jymmm> JT-Work: The laser beam has to focus on the surface, so if there's any distortion in the height effects the final results.
[15:27:10] <JT-Work> what is the tolerance?
[15:27:38] <Jymmm> JT-Work: I really don't know.
[15:28:01] <Jymmm> I just want a wavy plate 6 months down the road.
[15:28:08] <Jymmm> ^don't
[15:29:13] <Jymmm> brb... coffee
[15:29:15] <JT-Work> without knowing what the flatness tolerance is it is tough to guess how flat is flat
[15:29:26] <JT-Work> brb... work
[15:31:47] <cradek> get mic6 whatever thickness you want - don't face it - just mill one edge like your picture
[15:32:30] <JT-Work> mic6?
[15:33:48] <JT-Work> found it
[15:35:06] <cradek> but I agree if you don't know how flat is flat enough, don't start buying or cutting
[15:39:19] <elmo40> Jymmm: I can make anything...
[15:39:30] <elmo40> make those pins
[15:39:34] <elmo40> mill your plate
[15:41:23] <Jymmm> Heh, Mic6 does NOT like to be annodized
[15:45:57] <Jymmm> JT-Work: cradek I seriously doubt that "machinist flat" is of any significance, and I say that because the material being laser cut sure isn't. Mostly look for something that won't bow/flex or become wavy/distorted 3 or 30 months down the road.
[15:46:41] <Jymmm> even if mishandled slightly
[15:51:35] <JT-Work> a 12 x 24 piece of 1/2" thick 6061would be hard to mishandle...
[15:54:10] <cradek> 12x24x.5 mic6 at metalexpress is $116
[15:54:42] <cradek> 6061 is $101
[15:54:51] <cradek> (jeez)
[15:55:18] <JT-Work> for $15 more...
[15:58:07] <Jymmm> Is M6 the same thing?
[15:58:17] <cradek> not sure
[15:58:41] <elmo40> what is mic6?
[15:59:19] <cradek> stress-free cast aluminum, good for fixture plates
[15:59:40] <Jymmm> M6 ALUMINUM PLATE
[15:59:40] <Jymmm> "Aluminum Cast Plate produced by Alcoa. Using proper aluminum machining methods, tolerances in the thousandths can be consistently maintained. MIC 6® Aluminum Cast Plate is finished to 20 microinches typical on both sides. Thickness tolerances is within +/-.005"" from nominal on 1/4""- 4"".Flatness tolerance is maintained within .015"" on 1/4""-5/8"" thickness and .005"" on 3/4""- 4"" thickness. Thermal Cycling can be performed up to 800° F un
[15:59:40] <Jymmm> der controlled conditions.
[15:59:43] <elmo40> cast al?
[16:00:19] <elmo40> sorta like cold-rolled steel? only al?
[16:00:27] <Jymmm> elmo40: scroll up
[16:00:37] <cradek> the exact opposite of cold-rolled steel
[16:00:45] <cradek> cold-rolled steel is extremely stressed
[16:01:35] <alex_chally> never try to face a plate of cold roll flat, you will end up killing yourself in frustration
[16:02:06] <cradek> heh, you can make it flat, right until you unbolt it from the table...
[16:02:32] <alex_chally> I had a bit of scrap that turned out to be coldroll that I ground flat, indicated over it to check, then took it off the mag chuck and moved it to the surface plate to check again
[16:02:47] <alex_chally> it was only off by like .0003" over 12" or something like that
[16:02:57] <alex_chally> came back the next day, it was over .002" out of flat
[16:03:03] <Jymmm> 6061T6 13x25x0.5" = $117.98, M6 13x25x05" = $128.20
[16:04:30] <Jymmm> Wow, I really like their new shopping cart... https://www.metalsupermarkets.com
[16:04:41] <cradek> alex_chally: grinding half as much on both sides might have helped, but either way it's a bad idea if you need it to be flat
[16:04:53] <Jymmm> Tad more expensive that what cradek quoted, but they are local so I cna pickup.
[16:05:00] <alex_chally> cradek, I had ground both sides :/
[16:05:39] <cradek> heh
[16:05:45] <Jymmm> they are really nice too, I don't now how many times I've gone in there for something and they have just given it to me.
[16:06:41] <cradek> local would sure be nice.
[16:06:51] <Jymmm> Is it a good idea to surface 6061?
[16:07:23] <cradek> probably safe, but better not to
[16:07:25] <cradek> get the thickness you need
[16:07:55] <Jymmm> I meant primarily to have a smooth/even finish free of blemishes.
[16:08:38] <cradek> mic6 comes with a nice flat ground surface - you won't improve it on a milling machine
[16:09:17] <Jymmm> The thing with M6 is that it doens't annodize very well, they say due to the Si content in it
[16:09:53] <cradek> oh this is to be anodized? I don't know anything about that.
[16:10:52] <Jymmm> Well, if I annodize it, it'll help reduce flash/reflects from the laser buncing off it and hitting the bottom of the material being cut
[16:11:42] <cradek> is it still focused enough to matter when that happens?
[16:12:48] <Jymmm> Yeah, think if it hits a pin that the material is sitting on. This has been the issue with these types of plates in the past. It leaves a mark on the workpiece
[16:13:38] <Jymmm> the material gets hot and soft, and anything hitting it leaves a mark
[16:18:16] <Jymmm> Now for pins.... Does anyone know of any annodized pins by chance? It seems that locksmith pinning kit pins go as tall as .320"
[16:18:43] <Jymmm> http://www.matunuck-point-sales.com/tsi/sp/rp.htm
[16:19:34] <Jymmm> Sorry, .360"
[16:21:23] <elmo40> all lock components are brass or bronze. good to know.
[16:21:41] <Jymmm> Most
[16:21:46] <Jymmm> not all
[16:22:03] <elmo40> the better ones?
[16:22:17] <Jymmm> the cheap ones use aluminum
[16:22:30] <Jymmm> NEVER buy a lock that has an aluminum key
[16:32:10] <Jymmm> elmo40: the pins in a lock are brass to prevent manipulation using a magnet, but the springs can still be of a ferious material at times, some are pure brass in others.
[16:38:18] <JT-Work> heh, OneCNC is finally making a post for EMC2!
[16:38:57] <Jymmm> If I have a 0.125" round pin, and I want to insert/remove it by hand, but not so loose that the hole size changes the height of the pin, what size hole should I have?
[16:39:37] <JT-Work> a 0.125 reamer will leave a slip fit if your pin is not oversize
[16:39:38] <cradek> ream with an "oversize" dowel pin reamer
[16:39:42] <cradek> it's probably 1255
[16:39:55] <Jymmm> same goes with 0.095" diameter pin
[16:39:55] <cradek> right but beware dowel pins are oversize
[16:41:05] <Jymmm> Sure, I'll mic the pins ahead of time to verify, but what's the rule on hole size for somethign like this?
[16:41:33] <cradek> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=67&PMITEM=319-0729
[16:42:12] <cradek> seems like good choices are 1255 and 1265
[16:42:13] <JT-Work> the pins I normally use are Actual diameter is +0.0002" over the nominal diameter with a tolerance of ±0.0001", unless noted.
[16:42:43] <cradek> yes dowel pins will be about .1252
[16:43:11] <JT-Work> just depends on your runout of your quill what size hole you end up with sometimes
[16:43:18] <cradek> for another make: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=69&PMCTLG=00
[16:43:20] <cradek> says DP O/S is .126
[16:43:33] <IchGuckLive> hi JT-Work
[16:44:40] <JT-Work> hi
[16:45:04] <IchGuckLive> still no clue here to open up a new page into wiki
[16:45:47] <JT-Work> just add the title to the main page then save then click on the ? to create the new page, but there might be other ways that I don't know about
[16:46:35] <IchGuckLive> i will try it out
[16:49:45] <Jymmm> ok, thankss
[16:51:23] <IchGuckLive> JT-Work: so far so good but not all pages are listed here or? so are there subfolders?
[16:52:16] <IchGuckLive> as specel there are pages named G12-G13 this are not in the main list but in the page list
[16:52:31] <JT-Work> what page are you looking at?
[16:52:42] <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl
[16:52:46] <Jymmm> Um, dumb question... Why did you guys link to reamers? I would need to drill holes, wouldn't it make more sens to use the next size up drill bit?
[16:54:01] <JT-Work> did you add that page?
[16:54:24] <IchGuckLive> no i still suerching for the unterfolder to put it in
[16:54:31] <JT-Work> jymm a drill will leave a hole but it might not be to size or very smooth or round
[16:54:43] <JT-Work> I don't understand underfolder?
[16:54:46] <Jymmm> JT-Work: ah
[16:54:58] <IchGuckLive> subfolder
[16:55:44] <JT-Work> are you talking about like Oword under Using EMC2?
[16:56:17] <IchGuckLive> no i want to ad a subroutine for G150 Rectangular
[16:56:23] <Jymmm> sub-folder?
[16:56:34] <IchGuckLive> Main Folderr is Using EMC2
[16:56:51] <IchGuckLive> i see there is M100-199
[16:57:11] <IchGuckLive> subfolder Advanced examples of using emc2:
[16:57:30] <IchGuckLive> but where the Hell are the sides named G12-G13
[16:57:41] <JT-Work> that is just page formmating
[16:57:59] <JT-Work> if you didn't add it then it won't be there
[16:58:13] <IchGuckLive> ok understand
[16:58:19] <IchGuckLive> why im aasking for
[16:58:36] <IchGuckLive> i now setup the 48th EMC2
[16:58:51] <Jymmm> http://wiki/MyNewPageGoesHere
[16:59:01] <IchGuckLive> and alot of people using the wiki or the Docu from the main
[16:59:28] <JT-Work> if you want to add a link to the g12 page under m100 just copy the formatting of m100
[16:59:39] <IchGuckLive> but there are all asking the same quest cause there are Haas people
[16:59:58] <JT-Work> if your page is all ready existing then the link works if not a ? is added to create a new page
[17:00:23] <IchGuckLive> yes im with you i will now start worke
[17:00:42] <JT-Work> cool
[17:00:49] <JT-Work> I must do some work now too
[17:05:33] <IchGuckLive> Done with G12
[17:06:25] <Fox_M|afk> Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
[17:06:36] <elmo40> IchGuckLive: 48th EMC2 machine?
[17:06:55] <elmo40> so far I am getting the hand of HeeksCNC... I like it :)
[17:12:39] <JT-Work> IchGuckLive: pair your subroutines up with Dewey's subroutine gui and you can have one button to start the sub http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,40/id,3408/lang,english/
[17:14:55] <IchGuckLive> JT-Work: iwill do if i be finisched with the python Gui first
[17:15:19] <IchGuckLive> elmo40: B)
[17:15:34] <IchGuckLive> elmo40: compilesd or windows
[17:15:44] <elmo40> windows 0.13
[17:15:46] <JT-Work> oh cool your making a python gui for subroutines?
[17:16:09] <IchGuckLive> Jt for the Circular and the rectangular pocket
[17:16:41] <IchGuckLive> but im asked to stay with standard Gcode not Emc2 specel
[17:18:57] <elmo40> standard is a better idea.
[17:19:07] <JT-Work> I'm making one in C with gtk
[17:20:14] <IchGuckLive> EMC2 makes the code out of the python
[17:20:34] <JT-Work> I don't understand
[17:20:41] <IchGuckLive> elmo40: awallin did the hell of new Things into it dayly updates
[17:21:27] <tom3p> micges: get the photo urls?
[17:21:40] <IchGuckLive> JT-Work: in axis you load the .py and make the changes you want and then hit Write to Axis and there is the G-code
[17:21:45] <micges> yes
[17:22:17] <JT-Work> there are other ways to send the code to Axis as Dewey has done
[17:22:43] <JT-Work> the simple g code generators do that after jepler told me how :)
[17:23:13] <IchGuckLive> i new but it is best for workaround just hit "O" and ther are all the good thinks available
[17:23:42] <IchGuckLive> Most Emc2 users work that way as i new them
[17:23:48] <tom3p> Jymmm oil water & dry are 3 different sized reamed holes, and to make it way big, we used shim stock to force it large
[17:29:21] <piasdom> anyone know where i can find round tubing(alum) with 1.375id and .1 wall ?
[17:29:54] <IchGuckLive> not all are milling thinks like that -> http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/100810192919_mount_rushmore.png
[17:30:05] <IchGuckLive> JT-Work: B)
[17:30:25] <IchGuckLive> piasdom: where in the world are you ?
[17:31:24] <piasdom> IchGuckLive: USA
[17:31:36] <IchGuckLive> State
[17:31:47] <piasdom> louisiana
[17:31:58] <IchGuckLive> go to BP
[17:32:07] <IchGuckLive> no joking
[17:32:22] <piasdom> nope
[17:32:38] <piasdom> BP ?
[17:35:24] <piasdom> British petroleum ? :) we have enough from them :)
[17:35:25] <JT-Work> piasdom: you looking to turn the OD or ID or both or not?
[17:36:31] <piasdom> want to get as close as possible to finish product as not to warp too much
[17:36:40] <IchGuckLive> piasdom: in Harvey is a alu pipe selling company
[17:36:45] <piasdom> id needs to be 1.375
[17:37:24] <piasdom> lathe here is not big enough to bore 14"
[17:37:50] <piasdom> IchGuckLive: know the name of the comp ?
[17:38:30] <IchGuckLive> http://www.metalsalesusa.com/contact.html
[17:39:12] <piasdom> IchGuckLive: Thanks
[17:39:28] <IchGuckLive> they make parts so they have always litel giveaways for people like us
[17:40:06] <IchGuckLive> so the sun is going down here
[17:40:26] <IchGuckLive> tomorrow only thunderstorms in forcast
[17:43:31] <IchGuckLive> JT-Work: can i ad a picture thru upload ?
[17:46:44] <Jymmm> As far as being deformed, do you think 0.190" 6061 plate would be ok?
[17:48:15] <cradek> Jymmm: I don't see how you think we can answer that...
[17:48:40] <Jymmm> I've never worked with it, I thought someone here might have.
[17:50:13] <cradek> well sure I've used plate that thickness...
[17:50:21] <Mendel|bored> Mendel|bored is now known as mendel|wine
[17:51:26] <Jymmm> cradek: Does it hold it's "flatness"? warp? flex? bow? etc
[17:51:53] <Jymmm> It won't be thrown across the yard or anything, but might be stored on edge, etc.
[17:52:46] <Jymmm> get bumbed, fall over, etc
[17:53:12] <JT-Work> IchGuckLive: yes just look at other pages with pictures
[17:53:17] <archivist> thickness is not the only measurement needed for stiffness
[17:55:25] <JT-Work> Jymmm: with normal handling it would not bow warp flex bow any more than it did when you machined it...
[17:57:15] <Jymmm> JT-Work: Can surfacing the edges effect it much?
[17:59:02] <JT-Work> it can but it is hard to say what it will do... why don't you try some peg board covered with aluminum foil for testing... but I didn't tell you that
[18:00:15] <cradek> if you're making a kind of table, you won't regret making it thicker than you absolutely need
[18:00:18] <Jymmm> JT-Work: I was thinking of playing with the stuff they use for bench tops, much denser than MDF, dark brown in color.
[18:03:20] <cpresser> cradek: it will matter since the total weight goes up :)
[18:03:31] <cradek> yes and that's always good!
[18:03:50] <cpresser> at least my last few constructions were way to heavy to lift them
[18:04:11] <cradek> that's good because then you always know where to find it
[18:04:21] <elmo40> ya... on the floor
[18:04:37] <elmo40> I always over-engineer my tables.
[18:04:52] <elmo40> good way to have them last forever ;)
[18:05:21] <cpresser> I build one with more than 150kilogramms... now I am a litte cured of 'make it bigger' :D
[18:08:25] <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?G150 is the picture there ?
[18:09:33] <IchGuckLive> elmo i need for most 150x150mm most parts 95% have 50x50x25mm
[18:09:56] <IchGuckLive> the machine does 750mm
[18:11:45] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[18:12:32] <elmo40> it is good to have a larger table then necessary.
[18:12:48] <elmo40> then you can gang-mill multiple parts at the same time
[18:13:17] <elmo40> and try to use the entire machine. if not, you risk wearing out one part of the sliders/rails/linear bearings prematurely
[18:14:11] <tom3p> vector pin tables at http://www.classact.net/
[18:17:31] <tom3p> and this guy used phenolic http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarbotics/4807769462/
[18:20:57] <IchGuckLive> JT-Work: i optimised the side a bit for better viewing
[18:21:01] <IchGuckLive> upload:g150.png
[18:21:10] <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?G12-13
[18:22:49] <tom3p> if phenolic works, then for 'stiff' and 'stabile' I suggest 'greenglass' like this ( see mil specs ) http://www.mcmaster.com/#grade-g-10/fr4-phenolic/=8cgabt
[18:24:19] <IchGuckLive> so im done for today i edited and finalased the g150 on the wiki http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?G150
[18:24:24] <IchGuckLive> By for today
[19:24:18] <ichudov> Guys, I have been BLOWN AWAY by the ability to use EMC2 G-Code as a programming language: subs, local variables, conditions, etc.
[19:24:26] <andypugh> My servos have a plain 11mm dia shaft with a threaded hole in the end. To mount the pulleys I am considering making a split, tapered sleeve to fit in a tapered bore in the pulley, then pulling it all up against the shaft shoulder with a bolt in the end. Does that sound like it would work? (I dislike grub screws and the wall thickness will be a bit thin, and I would be drilling the toothed profile too)
[19:25:03] <andypugh> Yeah, I have no idea if the O-words are unique to EMC2 or whether other dialects use them.
[19:25:22] <ichudov> Been coding a lot of useful subroutines for pocketing etc. Now I have a question: Can I pass a subroutine name into a subroutine. Say I want to do "for all bolt hole pattern points" "do something" and I pass name of that something
[19:25:44] <andypugh> But looping until you are at the diameter is great (especially starting from a random point)
[19:25:46] <ichudov> andypugh: my servos use such tapered sleeves
[19:26:20] <andypugh> You can only pass across numbers, I think.
[19:27:13] <cradek> ngc doesn't have strings, but if your subroutines are numbers, yes you can do that
[19:27:19] <cradek> like O[#100] call (I think)
[19:27:23] <andypugh> (sleeves) I have used the Trantorque bushes with great effect, but don't have the diamter for them, so basically my plan is to use the pulley itself as the outer half
[19:27:38] <ichudov> OK, maybe I will do some giant switch statement type of thing
[19:27:57] <cradek> andypugh: a lot of machines use tapered collet-like things to clamp to motor shafts
[19:28:25] <andypugh> Aye, I am familiar with Trantorque and Taper-lok.
[19:29:23] <ichudov> OK, thanks, need to think about it.
[19:30:06] <cradek> can you just mill a key slot in the motor shaft?
[19:30:32] <andypugh> ichudov: I think cradek is saying that if you have a subroutine defined by "O120 SUB" then "O [100 + 20] CALL" will call it. as will O[#1 + #2]. So you can pass the name of a subroutine to a subroutine, for a limited class of subroutine names.
[19:31:03] <cradek> yes I'm pretty sure that's true (but I didn't try it)
[19:31:06] <andypugh> Might be tricky with the shaft in still in the motor.
[19:31:29] <cradek> yeah depending on the stickout.
[19:31:42] <andypugh> Also, that should work for a subroutine called "120" in a file called "120.ngc"
[19:34:25] <andypugh> I have never passed parameters to a subroutine, but I thing it is O<subname> CALL #1 #2 #3
[19:34:49] <cradek> no, O... call [...] [...] [...]
[19:35:11] <cradek> then inside the sub you get #1 ... #n
[19:36:01] <andypugh> See how this works? I make egregiously false statments, and that prompts folk who know the truth to answer. :-)
[19:36:59] <skunkworks> andypugh: dad liked your eccentric - he says you should thread a hexagonal shaft ;)
[19:37:06] <ichudov> andypugh, you may love these subs and stuff, it is just like real programming
[19:37:15] <Jymmm> You mean like andypugh is a saint
[19:37:16] <skunkworks> *eccentric turning
[19:37:54] <cradek> I'm at least as eccentric as andypugh is
[19:38:08] <ichudov> I can define O100 inline, right before calling a function that calls o100, it will work
[19:38:13] <andypugh> Actually, a threaded hexagonal shaft would be one way to make a hex broach.
[19:39:14] <andypugh> The killer-app for the non-circular turning might be boring D-shaped holes for couplings. I need to see if it works for that.
[19:39:24] <skunkworks> heh
[19:43:28] <ichudov> Can I have a coordinate system that is not only shifted, but also rotated
[19:43:35] <andypugh> Hmmm, it ought to work for D-shaped, square and hexagonal holes on a milling machine with a boring head (and spindle encoder). Now that would be fun!
[19:43:39] <cradek> yes, G10 ... R
[19:44:53] <ichudov> got it
[19:44:54] <skunkworks> ichudov: isn't emc2 awesome? :)
[19:45:24] <ichudov> I am about to EXPLODE ffrom EMC, it is better thanm drugs
[19:45:36] <ichudov> I have been programming functions like mad
[19:46:10] <ichudov> already wrote 9
[19:53:09] <andypugh> With a pyvcp panel you can then have a set of buttons and textboxes with sizes in them, where you jog to the middle, hit the button, emc2 reads out the width, breadth and radius and mills a pocket.
[19:54:18] <andypugh> A bit like my lathe setup (which I have now somewhat changed) http://www.bodgesoc.org/lathe/lathe.html
[20:32:23] <andypugh> Random thought. Could a flatbed plotter with a stylus cur Gestetner wax masters to be used to silksceen PCBs and control panels?
[20:38:25] <Jymmm> andypugh: do you have a flatbed plotter?
[20:38:41] <andypugh> Yes
[20:39:35] <andypugh> I have already used the plotter to make these: http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5478341215134773746
[20:40:50] <tom3p> those are made by stacking?
[20:41:18] <Jymmm> I see like 50+ photos
[20:41:19] <andypugh> Lots of layers of label paper, cut out with a vinyl knife from an STL file.
[20:41:56] <Jymmm> ok, I see it now
[20:41:56] <andypugh> direct link? http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tjht3D69CSp25i9tYwD7dg?feat=directlink
[20:42:22] <Jymmm> google was being weird
[20:43:03] <Jymmm> you have pics of the plotter?
[20:44:04] <andypugh> Not of my particular one, but it is one of these: http://www.synthfool.com/laser/dxy880.jpg
[20:44:35] <Jymmm> andypugh: And what did you do/use to replace a pen with a knife?
[20:44:59] <andypugh> I machined a holder, and bought a commercial knife.
[20:45:39] <Jymmm> andypugh: Isn't the knife blade offset kinda like this (sideways) --> ______/----
[20:46:02] <andypugh> They have a tiny amount of castor.
[20:46:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: do oyu have a link to the pic of the knife you use?
[20:47:54] <andypugh> No, sorry. But it is just a round rod, sharpened to a blade with the point slightly off-centre
[20:48:09] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[20:48:14] <andypugh> They cost <$5 on eBay
[20:48:52] <andypugh> I made a brass holder with an adjustable end-stop and containing a teeny ball-bearing.
[20:49:09] <Jymmm> I have an HP plotter that I'm getting rid of. Comes with the full service manual including schematics. It has GPIO interface
[20:49:54] <cradek> GPIB
[20:50:02] <cradek> (actually HPIB)
[20:50:27] <cradek> which model? doesn't also have serial?
[20:50:31] <archivist> they have little servos in them
[20:50:51] <Jymmm> This is an 'A', mine is a 'C' wiht eight pens http://www.hpmuseum.net/images/9872A-35.jpg
[20:51:07] <Jymmm> cradek: HP 9872C
[20:52:08] <cradek> I bet jepler could use it to plot stuff from his ancient storage scope...
[20:52:31] <Jymmm> You're right HP-IB, no serial port.
[20:52:32] <andypugh> I could use it to plot stuff from _my_ ancient storage scope.
[20:52:59] <archivist> I collect HP...I need the storage scope too
[20:53:07] <Jymmm> lol
[20:54:14] <andypugh> We threw out a load of HP data-acquisition stuff a while back. 256 channels @ 92kHz
[20:54:15] <cradek> http://www.360tech.com/catalog/7550b-11x17-wide-format-autofeed-plotter-rs232hpib-interface-7550b-refurbished-p-32530.html
[20:54:20] <cradek> hahahaha $1100
[20:54:26] <cradek> I have one of these, but sadly it quit working a couple years ago
[20:55:17] <cradek> it's the cadillac of 11x17 plotters. it can hold a ream of paper and auto-load, then drop them out the back when done.
[20:55:57] <tom3p> Jymm electrostatic bed? ( some HPs didnt need anything to hold down the paper, dont cut into that )
[20:56:23] <Jymmm> tom3p: Yes. and no I wouldn't.
[20:56:44] <archivist> cradek, did you steal the servos for your little lathe from a plotter? they look like the ones I found in mine I scrapped (Pittman)
[20:57:09] <Jymmm> Since I have the laser now, I really don't have a need for it. I can't toss a spindle on it as the swarf with fall into the electronics.
[20:57:20] <Jymmm> And it's just BIG to store.
[20:57:29] <andypugh> My flatbed plotter also works for PCBs, with an OHP pen drawing the tracks (followed by olde-school etching)
[20:57:29] <cradek> archivist: I think jmk found them in a dumpster. he gave them to me a long time ago.
[20:57:49] <archivist> real collectors create space to store
[20:57:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: I was thinking etching AND drilling
[20:57:54] <cradek> andypugh: cool! what kind of pen?
[20:58:14] <Jymmm> archivist: I have hit the ceiling in storage.
[20:58:16] <andypugh> Just a Staedtler Lumocolor
[20:58:45] <archivist> Jymmm, I added another shed!
[20:58:46] <cradek> that works well as etch resist?
[20:58:56] <cradek> I've tried sharpie, and it doesn't work at all
[20:59:06] <Jymmm> I would LOVE to turn it into a PCB mill, if anyone has ideas on how to keep the swarf out of the electronics
[20:59:14] <andypugh> Yes, it works fine. I have heard the red works best.
[20:59:53] <Jymmm> With eight pens, could make them drill and mill holders
[21:00:00] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95B8PDlnajk is the PCB I made with the OHP-pen resist (You can see it at about 4 seconds onwards)
[21:00:00] <cradek> I will file that information away in my memory meat
[21:01:07] <cradek> heh need more spindle speed!
[21:01:10] <andypugh> Right, back to the workshop. (Pattern-making)
[21:01:48] <cradek> any automatic drilling is such luxury... you can go blind fast doing it manually.
[21:02:56] <gene_> Hey guys, I just broke a brand new tap, 5/16-18, in a .257" hole. Acted like the hole was too tight, but that is what the handbook says. So how big a hole do you folks drill?
[21:03:04] <andypugh> drilling by hand makes you a fan of SMT
[21:03:24] <gene_> Naw, using tailstock
[21:03:24] <andypugh> Might have been a faulty tap.
[21:03:32] <archivist> carbon or hss tap
[21:03:41] <gene_> brand new Irwin/Hanson
[21:03:45] <gene_> hss
[21:03:57] <archivist> lube or dry, and what metal
[21:04:31] <gene_> cutting oil, 3/4" cold rolled rod from tractor suppy
[21:04:43] <andypugh> On the way in, or backing out?
[21:05:16] <gene_> going in, I can cut with another tap, but only about 1/2 trun per backout & clean
[21:05:20] <andypugh> (I have a feeling that the old advice to back out every half turn is counterproductive with modern taps. My favourite tap-wrench takes batteries.
[21:05:35] <gene_> wish mine did.
[21:05:44] <archivist> cold rolled can be hard
[21:05:47] <andypugh> It's a cordless drill.
[21:06:18] <andypugh> Cold-drawn can be immensely hard.
[21:06:23] <gene_> must be 24 volt with big balls
[21:06:50] <gene_> It may be, the drill brought out a lot of dust.
[21:07:02] <andypugh> (I admit I don't go much above M6 with the drill)
[21:07:31] <andypugh> You might have found an inclusion, they migrate to the middle
[21:08:51] <gene_> Trying to make a gate latch, useing 1" sq tube, some 3/8 floor flanges drilled for 3/4", then couple the long bar on the far side to a handle of the same stuff on the other side of the swinging doors, to drop a lock bar into hooks
[21:09:14] <gene_> thios piece of 3/4" is the through axle.
[21:10:11] <gene_> But after doing it twice, its time fora coolout, and a beer, but I have to go get it, darnit. 97F here in the shop.
[21:10:36] <gene_> is that hole the right size?
[21:12:56] <gene_> Later, ac time
[21:46:12] <tom3p> that plotter had an interesting 'tool changer' feature. you press the button near the tool station and the machine changed to that tool.
[21:54:59] <Jymmm> tom3p: which plotter?
[21:55:46] <Jymmm> They HP one I have changes tools damn fast!
[21:55:55] <Jymmm> tools = pens
[21:59:43] <tom3p> Jymmm, yes your plotter has the cool ATC ( and HPGL interpreter built in )
[22:00:16] <Jymmm> Yeah, HPGL/2 is awesome, I can send it directly to the laser too.
[22:00:44] <Jymmm> Using "pen colors" as laser power levels
[22:01:31] <tom3p> this laser is what needs the bed of nails?
[22:02:16] <Jymmm> Heh, yeah. It's a raised bed cutting table, so there is lots of airflow under the material when cutting
[22:03:01] <Jymmm> They typically use honeycomb cutting tables, but many have issues with leaving marks on the back of the material beign cut
[22:04:17] <tom3p> yeah the material cut has fumes that react , the bed o nails has great airflow
[22:05:22] <tom3p> iirc there was a water bath too ( i remmeber fishing slugs outta the water between the nails, not sure why that was there
[22:05:40] <Jymmm> Yeah, I think even better than the honeycomb, and MUCH cheaper too
[22:06:15] <Jymmm> Maybe for the laser to disperse into?
[22:06:29] <Jymmm> water is a great heat conductor
[22:11:38] <tom3p> btw some open code for manipulating gcode ( post post ) http://code.google.com/p/grecode/ has some tricks for the trailing drag knife
[22:12:24] <tom3p> note its .ngc files
[22:13:31] <Jymmm> tom3p: I'd love to turn the plotter into a PCB mill - somehow
[22:15:02] <andypugh> I think that a laser would really struggle to cut metal that was underwater, the heat would be conducted away too quickly, so metal under water == laser backstop.
[22:15:42] <Jymmm> It seems that PEN_UP/PEN_DOWN is really an magnetic solenoid, so *maybe* if the spindle was connected by a belt it could do it. But no idea on how to keep swarf out of the electronics
[22:16:45] <andypugh> Move the electronics to another box?
[22:17:58] <Jymmm> then it would still get into the mechanics
[22:18:04] <Jymmm> did oyu see the pic?
[22:20:29] <tom3p> water under metal == laser backstop ;)
[22:21:07] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[22:21:31] <Jymmm> Water on/in laser electronics == boat anchor
[22:23:07] <tom3p> hmmm goto IMTS next month and see what/how the manufacturers do it
[22:26:05] <ds2> water + laser = sauna?
[23:05:05] <Jymmm> what is most perf board made from, fiberglass?
[23:08:04] <andypugh> I think they sell both FR4 and SRBP
[23:08:59] <andypugh> So that's epoxy/fibreglass and paxolin (or paper and bakelite if you pefer)
[23:16:04] <Jymmm> FR4 being fiberglass?
[23:17:51] <andypugh> Yes