theorb is now known as theorbtwo
So we've dissassembled the motors / gear boxes, still trying to figure out this scaling issue
1000 steps turn the motor ~3.07 times!
So it seems that the 1000 pulses / rev of the motor spec is either wrong, or EMC is outputting ~3.07 times the steps we expect
woudln't 1000 steps be an odd number for a stepper?
heh, we were discussing that in here earlier
It's what the datasheets say!
Not that I disagree
More importantly, 1000 steps don't seem to correspond to a rev
is it consistent anyway?
I've experimentally measured an error multiplier of ~3.07
From what our math tells us it should be
Where the heck that comes from, I have no idea
on the shaft? not through a gearbox?
our borger laher(sp) steppers are 1000 steps per rev (5 phase iirc)
I've never actually seen a 5 phase stepper.
but, that would make sense.
vexta is big on the 5 phase thing
anyone here know which widget sets the background color for the panel underlying the pyvcp area in axis?
skunkworks: kinda bizzare
pcw_home: Are you available for a Mesa question?
geo01005_home is now known as geo01005
sort of, moving chickens around....
pcw_home: in a skillet?
indoor cage to outdoor cage
pcw_home: Did you get the cable installed in the outdoor coop yet?
no still manual
pcw_home: Ah, but you have the 32" LCD HDTV installed in the outdoor coop, right?
I think our chickens are more easily amused
pcw_home: If you've never done it, I recommend throwing chickens some cooked spaghetti
Our's used to go CRAZY for spaghetti
I'm think they thought it was worms
lepton: nevr heard of that, but it sounds funny!
I think we have in the past, I'll have to try it again
Try it out ;)
Is there a simple terminal command to find out which modules are loaded?
I should've remembered that one...
alex_chally: Is this "Alex with the Corian" alex?
how's EMC2 on 10.04LTS coming along? I'd like to test some HAL/pyVCP things in simulator mode.
awallin: install 10.04, then packages from www.linuxcnc.org/mozmck and it should work even in rt
nice, just need sim for now is that working?
I haven't done it from packages, but from source, but it should be working
how long on a release?
I'll have to install 10.04 on ours
is that SMP by default do you know?
(got 240gb of space, so a side by side install isn't going to be an issue lol)
sorry, don't have rt 10.04 near to check
micges_work: is there a step-by-step guide for building sim from source on 10.04 ?
[08:20:03] <micges_work> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Ubuntu10.04Notes
awallin: just get the source and type dpkg-buildpackage on a non RT-System :)
smp is on by default
awallin: there should be prebuilt debs from the buildbot
hmm.. only hardy packages, I thought seb added a 10.04 slot
darren is now known as redwizard-kde
Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
anyone tried this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153144
(it has 2 pci slots...) :)
wonder if the nic would work with hardy
you mean with mesa stuff? I don't see a parport from the pixas
It looks like it has a parport header.
oddly there's a serial port on it
hi, I don't quite see it
you mean the one on the right, next to the second ATA header?
you're right.. it says "Paralel" in the pic
odd location for a parport header
Yes - I don't know what happened to the goal3 board we have in the K&T - it has become very unstable.
I wonder why pumakins.c has such awful code commenting?
We don't need the printer port. (2 mesa cards)
whereas scarakins.c actually defines what the hal data represents??
skunkworks: RTL 8102EL ..
has annyone ever tried using a pata data port for control???
is that the eithernet controller?
that would give 40pins of very high speed io
most motherboards still have 2 pata ports and they are bi directional
I really know nothing about pata signals of course
moop: you don't access pata ports, there's a controller which needs programming
and some of the communication is out of your hands (taken care by BIOS)
hmm - seems like it is the same as the intel version of the board
that one works just fine with hardy
will the next live cd include all the emc development tools??
I really think would be better to remove open office and include the development tools??
I was considering trying to write a machine abstraction creation tool
has anyone tried something like that before?
at the moment there are just a few predefined kinematics like scare, puma, hexapod
but i would have thought it posible to create the kinematics in an expert system type manner
ask how many DoF the machine has
and a few other parameters for each DoF and joint
I second the motion to remove OOo.
tailoring the next .iso to 'only' EMC related stuff is a better idea then having an office app.
I understand he's removing ooffice because otherwise emc won't fit
maybe even include other software like orocos and cad apps
10.04 is larger, mind you.
it's extremely unlikely all the development tools will fit. it's hard enough to make emc fit.
open office is normally around 300Mb
unfortunately there's no way to select packages that make everyone happy
gcc and the libs probably only take 100Mb
that's only a small part of our build deps (unfortunately)
remove open office and you would have 200Mb for some cad apps and other stuff
maybe you should give mozmck your comments when you see him.
a liveCD is always a good thing, but liveDVD has been the 'norm' recently... since distro makers want to incorporate Everything in a turn-key .iso
not sure it is the 'norm' since I have never yet used one
I think changing to dvd would be trouble for a lot of our users
dvd is a bad idea
I know EMC is more for the manufacturing of things, but some apps that come in this distro ( http://www.caelinux.com/CMS/
)would be nice to incorporate into linuxcnc.
old iron often does not have a dvd in it
yes, dvd would be trouble for many
has anyone tried it with unetbootin?
it is hard making a livecd
is there a maintainer for the pumakins.c file, there is no email contact in the file?
moop: we don't have per-file maintainers like that.
is there any way to turn of the amplifier while in pause mode ? :/
i need to go from home a while and cant leave the mill going and want to cut the power to the motors incase they would overheat ors omething :P
why would they overheat? make a sink for them ;)
just use 'run from selected line' later
will it continue from exactly where it is then ? cause its in the middle of a line where ive pressed pause :P
started the run of X axis
cause its freakin impossible to pause at the exact start of a specefic line :P
don't stop there, let it go until it's above the work piece
well it never goes above it .. it goes to the end, increments y goes back etc
use Single Step to stop where you want it. or, add an M01 and have Optional Stop turned on.
well drivers do have idle current reduction so i guess they should be aight but never know =)
just don't run them for 48hrs at a time ;)
Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
hmm, is there any program that i can "mill" a dot matrix of images with ?
bigger dots for deeper colors for example
anyone know of something like that? :)
mrsun, tes... I believe jepler has it on his web site... let me see if I can find the link
found "provcarv" or something like that but that costs :/
is one I found on my drive
mrsun, that is Jeffs work.... looks pretty good.... you should be able to build it
pgm.h missing ... wtf is that =)
looks like its outdated :/
/usr/include/c++/4.4/bits/stl_algobase.h:232:56: error: macro "min" passed 3 arguments, but takes just 2
or something is outdated atleast
mrsun, c++ is not my strong point... looks like there are some files missing... watch for jepler here or on #emc-devel and he can probably give you an update
wtf -.... emc isnt with in the photovcarve :/
its like a billion systems but not emc
is emc compatible with other formats then its "own" ? :)
quite similar to fanuc
well .. will it work with that? :P
"G Code (mm)" seems to be working atleast =)
sure, why would it not work?
well emc has some quircks with its qcode :P
or everybody seems to have their own stuff
the nice thing with standards is that there are so many of them!
LawrenceG: Do you play with any uC's?
dspics, 16F pics, now trying the xmos series
LawrenceG: I'm too lazy to look those up =) But I'll take it as a yes. Do you think it's possible to use a uC (atmel?) to iface with a USB wifi adapter somehow?
I thought it be the smallest I could come up with.
I know pics and the atmel series have sample code for USB clients, but I dont remember seeing host side code.... I suspect a network adapter would work better with a micro supporting dma
mrsun I find EMC to handle many types of gcode, and non-gcode, to do what I want.
LawrenceG: I could bypass the USB aspect I guess, it was just the physical size I am more interested in. Wifi module alone are very pricey.
LawrenceG: Trying to make a beacon
Jymmm, look at openwrt... it is a compact linux distro that is made to running on wireless routers... all the code is there and hardware is ~$50
LawrenceG: I've used OpenWRT, This has to hang around someone's neck =) A WRTG54GL would look kinda funny
I have seen worse!
LawrenceG: I guess 144.39MHz would work too
it handles it but it handles it wrong :/
it doesnt lift the mill enough after it has plunged until it reaches the end and goes back
then it lifts it again
this may be more complete
i find it strange that it doesnt withdraw Z enough :/
leaves scores where it shouldnt be :(
anyone know how to change viewpoint in vismach programs?
you can navigate with the mouse
try all three buttons
i only have two mouse buttons
i can zoom and translate but not rotate
is there a key combination?
i know i have a usb mouse, i try that
traditionally you need three buttons if you're using X. you can configure X to pretend you clicked a middle button when you press both buttons on a 2 button mouse.
some wheel mice have a middle button that you activate by pressing the wheel
yeah usually i would have chordMiddle enabled in xconfig
is it "Sherline" gcode that emc uses?
yeah works now with usb mouse
still doesnt help much tho as Sherline isnt in the list in phtotovcarve :/
sherline uses EMC
there is no such thing as sherline gcode :-)
ffs .... why cant they just have a emc post processor
as emc seems to be quite used around the world :/
emc is a lot like fanuc and it should not be hard to tweak a postprocessor to work with emc
isn't sherline still on BDI?
I think sherline is now using EMC2/ubuntu but I don't know for sure.
we never hear from them.
hence the BD part? ;)
[18:17:10] <cradek> http://www.sherline.com/cncmenu.htm
ffs aparentlky they have post processors for emc but you have to call/mail them and get one
apparently in february there was a bug in whatever version they were using
why the hell cant they put stuff like that out for download as they come up with it for their customers?
are there any docs for programming python apps with vismach and how to integrate a vismach display with a hal config???
[18:28:33] <Jymmm> http://www.sherline.com/emc/
haha, blast from the past
[18:30:16] <cradek> http://web.archive.org/web/20000622181218/http://www.linuxcnc.org/
GAWD, that just drives me nuts.... NO DATES AT ALL!
[19:26:33] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pctu-4wGduA
[19:27:13] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JbOUqE2eFI
[19:37:23] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/user/hg5bsd#p/a/u/0/ftJnEI1g_H4
good evening. what is limit number tool in the tool.table file.i have impose 56 tool and when start emc have message : skipp tool 56. emc read max 55 tool ?
yes - increasing that limit requires source changes and recompile
cradek, hi. please whath is the file and line code ? thanks
sorry, I can't look right now
motioncontrol: Looks like emctool.h
#define CANON_POCKETS_MAX 56// max size of carousel handled
I have to wonder why it isn't 65535 :)
the tool table has to fit in an nml message
And with that, I stop wondering
20 kib/s with "git clone"... taking forever... is that normal?
andypugh, and cradek thanks for info , more thnaks
SWPadnos: Getting better (media ~$1.50/ea) http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=9607414&subid=30428138&type=
hrm, just got master from git, compiled, run "axis" config, but the G-code that it start with refuses to run "program exceeds machine maximum on axis Z"
top of the sample gcode
you have to imagine a real workpiece and set a work offset that makes sense
I wanna push play, not read...
well yes, now it runs.
are the biarcs/spline g-codes in master now?
quadratic, cubic, NURBS
then I just need a filter which takes raw (x,y,z) points as input (say 1000 of them) and detects where the fancy curve is (to within tolerance)
anyone seen that kind of algorithm lying around?
sounds like a backward way of going about it
awalin: I have some excel macro code that does n-dimensional arbitrary order polynomial least-squares surface fitting to points?
image2gcode tries to combine points into arcs
awallin: I can't spell your name.
there are two philosophical schools of CAM-thinking here... I'm doing the "it's triangles all the way to the bottom" approach
andypugh: I've thought about this a little bit, and the thing is that you not only want the maximum error at the (x,y,z) points to be bounded, but also between two of those (x,y,z) points you have to asume that the user "wants" or has programmed a straight line G1 move. so the search for quadratics/NURBS should check the error wrt. that straight segment btw. each pair of points too. maybe.
* alex_joni passes andypugh a tab key
ofcourse if there are a lot of points and the distance btw. points is 0.1mm or something you could ignore the straight line segment
My code is basically trying to move experimental data points onto a regular grid, and then fit a smooth surface. It isn't the same as your puzzle, but might have some useful bits.
I haven't looked at arcs(G2/G3) yet, so maybe the fancy splines can wait a bit
But I have a sheaf of drawings and a lump of metal...
Back later, I will scroll up.
I guess G2/G3 should always be in one of the principal planes? XY, XZ, YZ ?
yes there's no way in gcode to have arbitrary arcs
well you can rotate them around Z with coordinate system rotation...
awallin: ouch, what happened to that lens?
alex_joni: heh, they are plastic replicas, look almost like the real thing (from 1m or so anyway)
awallin: heh, cool
awallin: but a bit pricey for what they are
at least ebay prices
gangsta: andypugh said I have a circuit that does what you want. Opto-isolated and floating too. You might not need the "floating" part.
cool, can you send me a linky?
hi btw :)
what spec PC's are people running, and does it make *much* difference?
1.4gig P4 on one machine and an amd 800meg on the other
gangsta: Mainly use an plugin Video card
do you notice much difference?
it effects latency
I have a 800Mhz and EMC compalins about missing a something or other (253000 in latency test) but it runs my lathe great - so long as I dont touch the mouse
if i touch the mouse it throws the toys out the pram
you could use a P3 with 256MB ram, but the main thing to look at is the latency.
I am putting together a duel optron 250 based system with 2Gb Ram, 3 LPT ports, AGP graphics etc. Initial testing showed low latency, cant remember what it was - but its meaningless until all the hardware is in anyway
so do most of you have more than 1 cnc machine, and if so do u use a seperate computer to run each?
I have several, and yes, they have their own computers
Incase anyone is interested, it turns out my scaling program from yesterday resulted from my stepper drivers having alternate programming from what was in the datasheets
So, Vexta stepper drivers don't necessarily behave like the documentation would suggest
so what was the steps per rev
However, I reprogramemd it, and now have 5x the resolution :)
So for me it's now 2482.81711223357
how is it possible to have a stepper motor with a non integer number of steps per revolutions?
that number is post gearing
The actual steps per rev of the motor itself is 1625, now set at 1625 x 5 = 6500
1625 also sounds a strange number of steps per rev?
methinks microsteps and some error to still find
how many phases does the motor have?
most motors have steps per rev that are a multiple of the number of phases?
Yeah, this is in microsteps
has anyone ever tried running a 5phase motor with a 4phase unipolar driver?
The drivers run closed loop control on position of the motor, so it's a somewhat funky system
I probably wouldn't do it again like this, I'm using hardware we already had on this machine
i heard emc could run steppers with encoders with some sort of dynamic speed control to prevent lost steps?
gangsta: I replied to your forum post with the circuit I use
moop: I'm hoping to use the encoders on my stepper drivers for position feedback in EMC2
haven't gotten that far, yet
* jthornton heads off to his neighbors house to fix his internet connection :/
As far as I know there is no dynamic speed control for stepper in EMC2. However, you could possibly fake it in HAL. (reduce max velocity when the f-error gets half way to the limit). I don't think you would ever get the steps back that way though.
What some folk have done is to run the steppers in velocity mode with a PID and closed loop, and that would get back the steps. The problem is that slowing down to recover position isn't natural to a PID, so you would need to back off the target velocity as well as run closed-loop in velocity mode.
For now I'm planning on just doing an error signal using classic ladder
so I'll get a GUI notification, and pause, if I get out of step
CL sounds a bit overkill for that.
I'm already using CL for e-stop and z-zero probe logic
So it's relativly easy to keep using that. I'm certainly open to suggestions for easier ways to implement what I'm talking about
Well, I would use HAL, but that is mainly because I have never even touched CL
How do you think you would do it in HAL?
Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk