theorb__ is now known as theorbtwo
Well if I'm going to smell dinner, I'd better start dinner...
gene_: You still there?
[00:09:22] <andypugh> http://www.pastebin.ca/1898139
cradek: I've been thinking about it and I'd like to adjust my earlier stepper tuning guesses. I'd say X final ended up maybe 75% of what we thought at first would work, Y final maybe 60%, Z final maybe 50% (Z probably would have been even worse (25%?) except for 4:1 reduction instead of 2:1). So thanks again to you and jepler for the "g-code cloud", and thanks to Bridgeport for putting those mechanical counters on.
cradek: BTW, I would highly recommend some kind of lost-steps-indicators (start/finish-position dial indicators, maybe?) when tuning steppers. Otherwise it's very easy to get caught up in the "how fast can we go without stalling?" tuning, and lose sight of the "yes, it looks great, but have we lost any steps?" tuning. From time to time I see some pretty outrageous claims for stepper velocities, and I always wonder if any rigorous evaluation was ever done?
cradek: The thing on our tuning is that the motors are all the same but the masses are additive. Big knee mill, so (weights estimated) X (table, 250 lbs?) is carried by Y (saddle, 500 lbs?) is carried by Z (knee, 1250 lbs?). So X has to accel/decel 250 lbs, Y has to acc/dec 750 lbs, Z has to acc/dec 2000 lbs (so we give Z a 2:1 mechanical advantage over X & Y. Does that reflect back as 1000 lbs, or is there a sq root involved? Nevermind. ) Oh, Z gets an air
cradek: Anyway, the point is, we're running these vastly different masses with the same motors. Same HP, same max RPM, same torque, etc. And that's one of our problems (assuming we would like the same rapid rates and accels/decels on all axes.
And since I can't seem to stop flooding, I guess I'll quit blathering now, lol.
and reduce a bit more for cutting load :)
and a bit more for a heavy casting on the table
I also made the mistake of testing with weight central, then in production had weight offset so friction was higher, had to slow it some more
archivist: Ha, yes, we have some ideas there to simulate cutting forces, maybe tractor weights and pulleys? But haven't done anything about it yet, fortunately we have a stack of small castings to machine for later grinding, so we can experience a few cutting forces at least.
archivist: You are right on heavy and off-center loads too, but we have not had to work with any large workpieces yet, the double-sided Chick vise (plus two small castings, but nevermind) is the heaviest load since the EMC2 retrofit.
my off center lump was the weight of the 5th axis
A 5th axis, excellent. I'll bet you have pictures posted? John's BP2 has the 4th axis and I would like to see him build a general-purpose trunnion for it. Probably won't add a 5th axis to John's BP2, but maybe on some other (future) machine?
theorb_ is now known as theorbtwo
someone one that can help me with a HAL manipulation
im on hardy with 2.3.5 shoudt i upgrade ?
someone on ?
your not alone
but i cant help you
if i were smarter this would be a haiku
waiting for SWPadnos
reading the hal manual for the 4th time
you know more about it than me then lol
sealive_cnc, ask better questions dont wait for one person
sw nows what im on
i try to config emc to work with smc800
therfore the hal has to change pin1 of parport every time a signal changes
pin1 high - step Axis high pin 1 low wait 1ms pin1 high wait 1ms - step axis low - cycle pin 1
sealive_cnc, what have you got worked out so far?
wher to find the docu and the hal
but all docu is diferent to the stepper code in the hal
jthornton: so first there has to be a reset of the port
addf parport.0.reset base-thread is in
jthornton: i need first basic understanding this hal file is in constant rotation all time the emc runs ?
sutch as a main loop
if it is a realtime component yes
userspace component no
if you use loadrt to load it it is real time
have you read the intro to hal? http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_basic_hal.html
it is rt
so i got to cycle the pin1 at every step 5000ns
to load the step into the gal
what is a gal?
so i generat a alias
eep = port 0 pin 1 out -> and set it high
net eep => parport.0.pin-01-out
setp parport.0.pin-01-out-reset 1 ->Hi
can i do this
or do i have to configure ee in any way first
you need to read the hal intro on net and signals that I linked above
if the step is written to the controler the pin1 has to move low
so you understand how net works
my inglish understanding is not good i
there are some pictures that show how it works
what is your native language?
do you know french well?
we have a french manual
english is good but im stuck
is epp a signal that is declared before?
the problem is only the understanding
look at this http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_basic_hal.html#r1_1_4
reset means to me as basic progger zero but there is a 1 behind
the "1" means true
[11:52:24] <jthornton> http://axis.unpy.net/01188134101
the reset allows you to step each base period as shown on the step waveform comparison ^^
i see but i do not understand to do this
addf parport.0.pin-01-out-reset 1 base-thread
is this then pin1 high for the base
i wait for sw ok by
wait means lurk!
lol he couldn't wait
he just wants SWPadnos to tell him the answer I think
he is always like that in/out gone
I wonder why paraport does not show up in the man pages in the html docs
is he thinking straight anyway, first fix his hal, then connect to par port
I wonder if this is still correct... If -reset is TRUE, then the reset function will set the pin to the value of -out-invert. This can be used in conjunction with stepgen's doublefreq to produce one step per period.
opps I though I was in devel
anyone seen the two M18-1 nuts I took off the finish mower blades last week?
has anyone done work on interfacing pot based encoders via parallel port?
I imagine it requires an ADC?
i'd guess so
seems all the encoders on one of my robots are 2k pots with about a 10 degree dead spot
can you just replace them?
I guess it may be easier to replace them with quadrature encoders??
Or i was considering looking at encoders from some old mice i have
those are not especially easy to re-use
anyone online who can help me through the MESA range of boards and which ones I will need...i have a rough idea i would just like to confirm
looking as the farnell catalog encoders are at least 15 pounds each, and I need 5 of them
and I would have to make new brackets and mount them correctly, it all starts to sound too much like hardwork, and possible failure.
Renco encoders differenetial....you wont be sorry and never look back....about $50 each 25 serries
40 USD I think
I think I am going to check this: http://www.boondog.com/tutorials/mouse/mouseHack.htm
I only paid 40 for the robot, and its just a hobby project
is it steppers?
no dc servos
there was not control system, just a robot arm
darn it I found my nuts
so I have to work out my own interface
I got 3 arms, 2 seem like fairly cheap simple fixes, but the biggest one seems like it will not be worth fixing
has anyone else noticed the tool position "cone" in the axis gl window dissapears when the program is run?
or do i have a wrong setting somewhere
im using ver. 2.4.1
are you loading tools or just running without a tool?
the program chooses a tool at the beginning
something in my tool table maybe?
lathe or mill?
neither its a gantry
so your using a mill style tool table then?
open the tool table up and see if you have a diameter set for that tool then
yes there is a diameter
Fox_M|afk is now known as Fox_Muldr
hmm - when I zoom right in on itI see a cylinder - its just tiny
well your tool is tiny
think i see whats happening now
makse sense.. Thanks!
* JT-Hardinge wanders out to mow the grass wondering if stepgen's doublefreq still exists...
emc2 controlled lawn mower?
anyone good with the mesa range of kit here????
Guest243, just ask the question
looking for 3 phase cards 8I20 and cards to run a lathe and VFD spindle
i was wondering if the 8I20 is compatible....or visible by EMC
I used a 5i20 with daughter cards to convert my lathe
i have mach3 and granite devices VSDE and smooth stepper right now...but its a pig
I've never heard of the 8i20 myself
its a 3 phase motion driver 400v 20 amp by mesa
which daughter cards did you use with the 5I20
7i33ta for the servo drives and a couple of 7i37ta's for I/O
I wish pcw_home was around to answer that question
so my granite devices VSDE drives are step /dir controlled....i take it they are no good to me anymore?
you can use step direction drives
I do on my plasma with a 5i20
so the 5I20 will wire in directly to VSD-E
ive read right through the manual and cant find anything to do with step /dir mode ????
if it takes 5v step and direction inputs
take a look at the stepper sample for the 5i20 (assuming you have EMC installed)
burning the live cd now
so its as simple as wiring the vsde 5v step /dir directly into the 5I20 ?
you will need a 5i20 card installed to run the 5i20 config but not to just look at it
I made a homemade breakout board for the 50 pin cable but I would use a Mesa breakout board if I did it again
how did you control the VFD (mine is PWM+-10v
such as a 7i42TA breakout FPGA protection card
with my 7i33TA card on my lathe
my plasma doesn't have a spindle so I only needed step and direction for the three axes
which drivers did you use?
drivers as in HostMot2?
sorry motor drivers
Gecko 203v's on all axes
nice drives, fast, quiet, smooth
i have 5 x 340's sitting about and a grex100 getting dust on them
I hate dust :)
the grex100 loves dust...all its good for...i dont know how gecko sold them and lived with themselves
so the 8I20 motion driver wouldnt be visible by EMC2 i take it....so it should be compatible :)
the only cards visible to EMC are the controller cards like 5i20 3xsomethingorother
the grex100 must be an old drive
100mbit ethernet driven
tcp modbus hack wannabe
does your spindle have encoder feedback with index?
how long did delivery take for you?
my encoder has index.....
a few days
the spindle VFD is just +-10v PWM control
right now i use the USB smooth stepper and mach3 to get position control
its okay for threading
with the encoder + index feed back to the 7i33TA you can thread
but im using a 1000 CPR encoder and mach3 has trouble keeping up with it
I use a 2500 ppr encoder with no problems
i think i have the build down pat
1 x 5I22
2 x 8I20/8C20
1 x 7I33TA PWM controller
no it is 4000 ppr on the spindle
2500 one I did some testing with ;)
2 x 7I42TA Breakout
2 x 7I37TA IO cards
i think 1000 CPR is 4000 PPR
as its quadrature so 4 x pulse
I meant count per rev
been out in the heat lol
you been a fantastic help to me
you don't need the breakout boards with the IO cards
ooo right yea...just looking at the cards they have the connectors on them
I'm waiting for the picture but I think the 5i22 will take 4 cards
so you could have a 7i33, 7i42 and 2 7i37's on the 5i22
whats the point of the 7i42?
homing switches and the like
if you don't need the higher voltages the 7i37 provides
my ext question
whats the difference between the T / TA models?
they don't make the T anymore and the TA has better terminal plugs
do i need any programming cables?
the TA are the ones with the green terminal plugs in the pictures
everything is in the .hal or ini files
that is not EMC related but for something else
brb gotta check my smoker
do you need all the I/O on your lathe to use a 5i22?
6 point gang tools
12 station rotary
5 live tools
x and z
planning a C
what kind is it?
mine is a Hardinge CHNC I chucker with 12 station turret only
mines hand built from the ground up
oh, even better
granite epoxy back filled
stands about 1.7m high 2.5m long 1.4 m deep
i must have been drunk when i decided i was going to build it
it would have been cheaper to buy a new one
when you get it converted you need to post a video on the wiki site or on the forum
but its been very fun
ill get some tomorrow
would you go the PCI or PCI-E
the 3x2x works out cheaper for me
I have to run been nice talking to you
thank you for your help
guest243: are you the one with the thread on cnczone?
sign on cnczone is evo4wrx
why does your nickname look familar?
as in lockheed skunkworks?
heh - no. (I am on a bunch forums either skunkworks or samco)
I used to own a dodge stealth twin turbo - so - stealth -> skunkworks. (odd I know)
Anyone know about testing encoders??????
use a scope
does emc have a way to show how many counts are coming from and encoder?
i cant cope with a scope
right I check the docs for halscope
nope, halscope dont look like what i want
and i dont have a real scope
dang internet is lumpy today
Are there any known emc "issues" with via epia motherboards?
emc seems to totally lock up the system when running etch-servo config??
I guess its a realtime kernel problem??
does emc save any error logs that may be readable after a reset and filesystem repair?
and there might be another one
SWEET! my turret encoder is working now after changing a couple of switching diodes :) :) :)
30 cents worth of parts fixed my encoder now how/why did the coolant get in there?
now I can reset all my tool holders on the turret back to the way I like them :)
i thought dmesg was erased at reboot?
I can only do a hardreset
ctrl alt F1 wont get a console
even num lock and caps lock dont work
does PID or pwmgen do some strange RTAI lock waiting for signals when they start?
I will try it on another machine, if it works, then maybe try changing some bios settings on the epia
running a 6 axis stepper system works fine on the epia
You can do stepper but not sero?
I joined late, so don't know what your problem is.
Not that it is worth explaining in any detail, I won't be able to help, I am afraid.
So now I need to figure out how to get EMC to read an analog value via the parallel port somehow
i was thinking of converting the signal to a pulse width
and maybe figuring out how to use HAL to time it and translate it to a value - is that possible? is there much overhead?
madsci44: does the signal need to be read in realtime?
hmm .. not really i would like to do about 10-20 reads per second if possible
to time a pulse i thought realtime was sort of necessary
what are you using it for?
(the analog signal)
well for the moment just for feeding indicators to pyvcp widgets
air pressure , arc voltage, etc
I would consider using an arduino to do that.
you can input to an encoder and use the velocity as your analog... converted to your units
for arc voltage I'd use the THC card from Mesa
depending on how well it works i might use it for control
yeah, I have an external thc of my own design which works well
The arduino can read the analog signal and then send the results digitally over USB. But it won't be realtime.
im just wondering if its possible to do it via a parallel pin
If you are just using it for indicators, then the arduino would work fine.
pokeys can take in 4 analog signals and send them over the usb
my controller can do USB
never tried it in EMC because for some reason enabling USB compromises performance on my junk control machine
how would EMC read the usb from the pokeys?
[22:27:28] <geo01005> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?ContributedComponents#Arduino_ADC_PWM_and_digital_I_O
i guess i should go look at some pendant configs for an idea
with the arduino you could use any serial inerface rather then usb.
madsci44: Easiest way is to use a voltage-frequency converter, then send the pin to an encoder module, and read off the encoder velocity. Encoders in counter-mode only need one pin.
if your controller does all you want what are you looking for?
well one thing my controller doesnt have is PCI interface :)
so as i said i was exploring if it could be done via a parallel pin
thats a good idea andy
do you have a serial port?
Actually, you could use the Arduino to do voltage-frequency too.
yeah serial might be an idea
For non-RT stuff it probably makes sense
ill have to get an arduino to play with one of these days
I find them very useful.
By the time you have got the Voltage to frequency stuff bought and on a PCB, you could have had an Arduino working more cheaply and a week earlier
voltage to freq would take me maybe 40 minutes
I would think a simple voltage to frequency converter would work just fine also. (and would be realtime through the printer port - hooked to the encoder counter - this would give you 'velocity' in relation to the frequency)
on the hardware side
I am currently experimenting with using an Arduino as a 3-phase converter. But I got a bit nervous when I saw 680 V DC on the proto-board earlier!
It's about 80V more than I was expecting.
But 600V is scary enough, sat there on bare wires
I think there will be a relay to discharge the caps when it is powered off on that board. I don't trust myself to remember.
just put a bleeder resistor on it no?
or maybe takes too long
i remember reading talk of an EPP driver somewhere - does anyone know if that materialized?
epp driver for what?
A bleed resistor at 600V / 1000uF is either too slow, or needs to be a 50W monster.
isn't that what you are using right now?
well my understanding is that EMC reads it in SPP mode, otherwise we could use the EPP control signals to do alot of stuff
The 7i43 uses epp.
EPP mode could read/write it as bytes, address or data,
maybe i should look at the 7i43 driver then, that would be cool
i dont have any Mesa hardware
You can still look at the driver though, it's all there in the source.
so does the pluto and pico software
* to control the software
with one of those devices can EMC read a quantity in realtime? say a byte value?
You would have to re-assemble the byte from bits, I think.
I don't think so at this time. The mesa hardware has some spi type devices that will read an analog signal - but the support in emc isn't there yet. You could theoretically use 8 or 16 inputs of the mesa card to create a word
Though you cold use as many bits as you like.
but that word would have to be assembled from individual bits i guess then?
And it would be a very simple comp to write, if it doesn't exist.
I still think the V/F converter would be the easiest. uses 1 bit.
im thinkign more and more i should just get my feet wet- read through some of the driver code and figure out how to make a driver for my controller
and as long as the max frequency is < about 30khz - A decent computer should read it from the printer port
yeah, could actually even use the heartbeat as the clock
so its synced reliably
would it need to be synced?
madsci44: No need to get too carried away with drivers etc, you can probably do what you want with a HAL component written in cmp.
(Sorry, written in "Comp")
im mostly tossing around/brainstorming ideas contemplating a direction here, so if i seem lost i am :)
[22:58:17] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_comp.html
I wrote my first comp at the fest. actually sort of worked ;)
With a little help - like finding out about fabs instead of abs... ;)
There is a point where it becomes easier than stringing existing HAL functions together.
I like how hal works I am still building experience using it in practice
i wonder about overhead
If you have a string of more than a dozen HAL components it is possibly time to write your own.
I think 877Hz is a bit high to be running my 3-phase motor at. Looks like I have made an error of arithmetic.
that for a spindle?
I was wanting 50Hz
Yes emc definitly has a problem with epia motherboards, unless my epia motherboard has its own problem
the etch-servo config works fine(in as much as it does not crash the pc) on another pc
Video cards and drivers are a frequent cause of that sort of bother.
keep in mind the epia is much lower powered
I now just run through most of the bios permutations and it still crash every time
and its partially screwed my harddisk, i think cause of the power off resets required
I may try an older version of emc tomorrow, see if that changes anything?
its late now so I am off, thanks for all the advice people, have a good night
whats the specific problem your getting?
well i will repeat the problem before I leave......
basically the pc totally locks up when loading the etch-servo config into axis
can you ssh into it from outside at all? and do the logs say anything?
the axis splash screen loads then disappears then the mouse freezes and nothing works
I would take a look through the syslog and see where it got up to
aaahhhh, thats a good thought, i try the ssh tomorrow
and check syslog
perhaps tail syslog from the ssh terminal before starting it
my first guess would be servo period is too short for whatevers being loaded
i doubt ssh will work, but its worth a try
ssh before you start axis
tail /var/log/syslog -f
then start axis
so the servo period is set in the .hal config file?
I think so yes
I try reducing the servo period in the config also
you need to increase it
if its too short it doesn't give the computer any time to do anything
thanks Valen, you given me some good ideas, but as I said before I am leaving for some sleep.
too tired to concentrate
have a good night
that out8 example in comp looks much like what im trying to do
thanks for that link andypugh - idonno why i didnt find that before
It is one of those pages I can never find except through the search.
But anyway, tome to sleep here too.