[#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/,
wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
SWPadnos: I got a new used keyboard today =)
Jymmm well its not new anymore now is it?
oh new used thats OK
SWPadnos: Do you remember using a VGA and Monochrome for debugging
no, I never did that
I had a funny problem at that time - I had an AT&T 6300 PC, with a monochrome monitor
[01:36:17] <Jymmm> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB110LL/A
but it was a color video card - it did grayscales (greenscales actually) instead of color
I ran the app on mono, and the debugger/ide on the vga. it was pretty good - at the time.
that was a PITA when we had a chip burner where the software had hard-coded character colors with the foreground and background at the same luminance
Man, I love this keyboard!!!
when we finally got it through the heads of the tech support people, they said "oh, that is problem"
It's the USB replacement for my TRUE IBM keyboard
(the software had other interesting translations, like "hit any key to be continue" and "ESC to main menu!")
* madsci42 is having heculese graphics flashbacks
Jymmm, and you actually like the feel?
SWPadnos: Actually, very much so. Even though it doesn't have the CLICK CLICK to it, and the longer stroke, it has a solid feel to the keys.
...when you press them that is.
It's one of those you'll either love it or hate it sorta things.
I haven't really typed a lot on them, but I can't say I have liked them much when I have had to use them
I'm still ambivalent, because I haven't used it enough to decide :)
SWPadnos: the full aluminum ones?
I've wanted one for a couple of years, got it for $25. Could of had two for $40.
(well, still can if someone wants one)
Jymmm should have just hit the guy with the one you bought then took what you wanted
pfred1: Nah, they were nice enough.
I thought that was the only hting that made those old keyboards worthwhile was their weapon factor
Plus has the added benefit of two USB ports on the side of it.
pfred1: Why do you think I have TWO pool cue trackballs for
the Bruse Lee school of computing
Ok, I put up packages for 2.4.1+ at http://www.linuxcnc.org/mozmck
heh, finally, been way too busy here lately.
mozmck: now that you have done the hard work building a working kernel package, could one of us help you by building the live cd without too much effort, or is it still complicated?
It is still somewhat complicated I think, but not too bad. If anyone wants to do that it's fine with me. I've already started here though.
oh ok, I'm not trying to nag, I'm trying to help :-/
Not a problem! I realize folks would like to see a livecd soon!
didn't think you were nagging either... :)
sure is too bad you can't come to workshop. darnit.
Oh, instructions? Can I install the new packages on top of the existing install?
sudo dpkg -i emc2_2.4.1-whatever.deb
I'd like to see EMC run on a more stripped down distro why can't it run on plain jane debian?
pfred1: it can - by all means please feel free to do that
KimK: yes, you should be able to. I did here and it worked fine.
cradek I mean as the prepared CD image
Ubuntu just seems to desktop centric to me
pfred1: for that matter, I would think you could strip down an ubuntu cd as well.
yeah there are all sorts of options
mozmck sure i could stand on my head and spit wooden nickels but I usually find better things to do with my time
oh you're saying you want someone else to do exactly what you want? I see now, I misunderstood.
i run mine on debian
cradek seems it'd be wmarter than throwing EMC in wit hthe kitchen sink
* cradek shrugs
There's an ubuntu server edition, but you would have to add a desktop package.
cradek I like seeing people do the intelligent things
It would not be too hard to strip things out of the desktop version though. Like gwibber or whatever.
yes far better we all be wheelwrights than it is to just make a decent wheel
thats why Linux as a whole is nowhere 20 years out
way to fail
pfred1: the factual basis of your argument is in question. OS/2 is nowhere 20 years out - microsoft bob is nowhere 20 years out - linux is absolutely everywhere.
first linux was released 1991
Undoubtedly it would be much better if everyone had the honor of your guidance, though!
ok 19 years lets be anal
anyway, I appreciate the work mozmck is doing, and I think lots of other people do too.
cradek it'll be 20 years before you know it and still no market penetration we're still dealing with the same lack of support we always have
lunatic fringe OS at best freebsd users can laugh
maybe no market penetration is whats good about linux, sortof
madsci42 oh yeah I'm thrilled everytime i go to buy hardware I have to research whether its is supported and what hoops I'll have to jump through in order ot get things to work
yeah it gives me wood
yeah thats a good point
when your run of the mill windows luser just drops it in and goes
huh, I haven't had that problem for quite a while. Maybe I'm just lucky but I've had very few pieces of hardware not work in linux.
But for windows now, I find I have to hunt the net all over to download the drivers I need for all the hardware on a computer. I've installed windows on enough computers lately to feel that pain acutely.
mozmck typically hardware has windows cert badges on the packaging
the video support for 3d and such lags a bit with the latest greatest but thats gotten alot better lately too
yes, if you are on a desert island with just a windows install cd and an ubuntu install cd, the ubuntu is much more likely to give you a working system
yeah, but if you're not getting new hardware with the driver CDs in the package, the windows cert doesn't help much.
cradek next time I find myself on a desert island I'll keep that in mind until then i have to live in the harsh reality of everyday mundane life
actually, unless your desert island has internet access, it's not possible to have a working Windows install
since it has to phone home to validate its license :)
SWPadnos: that's the Genuine Advantage(TM)!
thats poetic somehow :)
pfred1, if you'd like to make a lighter weight liveCD of EMC2, I'm sure some people would help you out
oh god I got dragged into an OS flamewar - what am I, 12?
cradek its no flamewar it is introspection
if all you want to do is complain that the existing liveCD is too bloated for you, then you're less likely to have people listen to you, since you still have the option of installing a lighter weight system in any number of ways
I've been running Linux for 16 years now but well it gets tiring to see the same fail over and over
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a lighter weight desktop myself. I run Xubuntu on my router table. I sure don't like Mono(nucleosis?).
i could help with that - i have made lots of minimal setups for flash targets, building with debootstrap, then cloning, install build environment, transport resulting targets back to boot target
an Ubuntu server CD, with X and maybe XFCE installed in addition to whatever libraries EMC2 actually needs, would be reasonably lightweight
cradek I deal with it because i appear to have no choice but hey we can all dream for better days can't we?
cradek: Is this correct: truetype-tracer -l -f ariel.ttf 'Hello world!' > hello2.ngc ? It's working, but I don't see the fill lines.
KimK: try -l 100
KimK: also, check your block delete
It was the block delete, nice. And -l 100 changes the spacing, I'll bet.
yes - I didn't remember/know whether you're required to give a number for -l
Endeavour_ is now known as Endeavour
It didn't seem to like the number very much: Fatal error in FT_New_Face: cannot open resource (1) at line:558 More importantly, -f ariel.ttf 'Hello World!' draws out "ariel.ttf" in g-code. What am I missing?
do you have ariel.ttf in that directory?
maybe try the default font (no -f specified)
In the TTT directory? Oh, I have to full path to system fonts? OK, no problem.
... -f /the/path/to/some/file.ttf ...
I used Fontmatrix to select a font and get info/path on it, now it's drawing out the full path in g-code. Sorry I'm stumbling about here.
heh - what's your command line
Maybe I should stick to more common fonts at first, I'll try again with something less unusual.
I found a nice bunch of fonts with just 'locate .ttf'
truetype-tracer -l -f /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-bengali-fonts/ani.ttf 'Thank You Come Again!' > hello5.ngc
ah I bet -l takes an argument, and that's consuming the -f (and sadly not reporting that it's an error)
try -l 100 -f ...
I have no idea what installed all of these foreign fonts, I've got dozens and dozens for sure.
chris@rover2:~$ truetype-tracer -l 100 -f /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-indic-fonts-core/Rekha.ttf asdf >~/asdf.ngc
some fonts come in different dpi and type1/andmore flavors, it adds up quick
Hey, it worked that time
And an extremely fine-pitch fill, too, let me retry with a smaller number.
cradek likes being right, so don't be surprised if he is a lot
(yes, indeed he is, lol) OK, here's the mess I made: http://imagebin.ca/view/RPp1SDnC.html
It worked great, thanks!
nifty - that's a more bizarre font than I'd experimented with.
does the top curly of the C have a hole in it?
Yes, that's why at first I thought I may have gone too far. But it worked fine. Yes, it does, and apparently with horizontal rapids across the hole.
with alternating scanline directions properly?
(reversing alternating scanlines was a bit tricky)
I didn't try to run it (although I did get a real-time error while loading, let me go back and pick that up too, if I can.), but I'll try running it now.
ack, I better get to bed
two more days til vacation!
OK, thanks, bye
hmm offset behavior isnt what i expected
for some reason reloading the drawing after turning off offset doesnt reposition relative to the original origin
i guess the drawing always loads relative to the stored offsets?
depends on the header on your file
normally at the top of a gcode file you reset everything, you have a line or 2 with a bunch of gcodes
hey i forgot about that - theres a g91 in there - thanks!
no wait hah i was thinking 92.1
what is FM?
92.1 on your FM dial
maybe i need to get out more :-)
Jymmm: raaaydeooo? whats that ?
podcast you mean?
someone in there ?
got a problem (again ! ) with radius comp
in fact I'm not sure my problem comes from radius comp or from G91
just ask the real question
I use the following gcode file : http://pastebin.ca/1883529
this is intended to drill a circular hole
with diameter 34mm
but the final circle is 32
bricofoy: how is tool 4 defined?
T4 P4 D6.000000 Z+0.000 ;fraise à rainurer de 6mm
forgiven that stupid question
just figured out I changed my microstepping config to test something
bricofoy: happens to the best of us ;)
well, as I produced something shorted than it as to be, I still can save the work :)
* archivist_attic only sees g0 and no g1
he uses G2 for the circle
G2 in a sub as I have to drill 4 identical holes
bricofoy: why X-16 but I17? is this intended
well, some strange movings to get where I needs to without thinking too much :P
your right ! this is also wrong !
just wondering, when going G91, mostly i move X-17 I17
to stay around center
else i might screw myself and am off
shouldn't affect size, but position
in fact I changed the circle radius
and forgot to change also the center position
finally my microstepping mistake helped you saving my work :)
wish everything was as easy as gcode
if only use simple moving ;)
right, never touched a 5 axis machine :)
* frallzor just woke up again
elmo401 is now known as elmo40
I hate waking up this early
morficmobile: I run a 5-axis every day.
setup takes a little longer
and it is a slower machine
but I love it ;)
elmo40: sounds like fun
it is awsome, watching the work place spin around so you can machine virtually every side at once.
makes a part more accurate then having to break up the setup and rotate it, a-la 3-axis
* frallzor want to mill something in alu
[13:22:23] <bricofoy> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdop2n_usinage-de-la-machine-avec-la-machi_tech
finally it worked :)
nice. complete with cutter compensation? :)
and sub call :)
[13:28:42] <bricofoy> http://pastebin.ca/1883590
the gcode file
just so you know, there is nothing special about the 4 tools in the sample tool table - feel free to delete them and number your tools from 1 :)
behind the machine table, I've some part that prevent me to place the cylinder and the succion pad under the first hole :/
I've to move all holes to the right
* bricofoy trying to get some more brain to buy :/
[15:05:39] <pcw_home> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1782493996.html
Is this the same as cradeks or older?
it looks like the same machine and control, but the control is in an external console instead of on the arm with the light on it
'84 is about right
ries_ is now known as ries
30 tool carousel was an option - mine is only 16
our largest machine has 120 tool locations. having 2 pallets with multiple fixtures it sure helps! there was one week where we had 5 spots open. that machines was Full.
I guess any machine that old is a pig-in-a-poke
16 is enough for any job I'll ever do - BUT it's not enough to hold all my tools so I swap them in and out sometimes.
pcw_home: running ok, under power - means you can easily evaluate it and you know the important parts work
if it homes, moves smoothly, spindle sounds good, tool changer works, backlash measures low, appears to have lube on all screws and rails - you pay your $4k and you have an easy retrofit job and a good machine
that seems really cheap for SF bay area - they don't have many tools there do they?
ries_ is now known as ries
Probably would have mentioned any if they we included...
I would really like to try a retrofit here but I think this is too big for me
(and especially too big for my wife)
our changer is only 60 tools. ;)
but we only have maybe 100 tools total.. ;)
cradek: sf seems to have all the best deals!
What does the Mori Seiki weigh?
looks like this place is looking for one guy to do everything for them: http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/yrk/mnu/1752695216.html
better pay well!
skunkworks saw your tool chain video. Does it stop-on-code yet?
pcw_home: about 8000 lbs iirc
amazing the ESR difference between a surface mount and 'regular' capacitors. eg: sm 330uF@35V = 35 mOhm, regular 300uF@35V = 1.8 Ohm
crazy price difference, though :P Tantalum sm = $0.50 while the regular tantalum is $83 !
pcw_home: not yet - have to polish the ladder ;)
the video was just activating solinoids manually
(MSG blah ) doesnt work for my recent git. anyone else?
isn't it spelled (MSG,blah)
oh, and is the tool diameter available to the gcode ( any #xxxx variable maybe? )
yes now in 2.4 I think it is
hmm, a comma? didnt see that inthe docs, will try thx
thx again :)
let us know if the docs are wrong somewhere
is there any way to datalog with emc2?
yes. what kind of data?
real time, preferably, is there just a component I'm not seeing?
elmo40: it must b a capacitor chemistry difference (normal electrolytic vs polymer)
we use little through hole polymer capacitors with 8- 10 mOhm
I think one records and the other plays back
there are userspace and realtime components - RT for capture/playback and userspace for disk I/O (you use both)
alex_joni: I think that would sink through our garage floor...
pcw_home: I was trying to compare price/ESR/size between similar values. Tantalum caps seem to be the best but damn expensive. A regular aluminum cap would be $0.77 while tantalum would be $56 !
digikey.com seems like a good source, anyone have other sites I can compare with?
Lopk at polymer for low ESR, usually better than tantalum
mouser is about the only other place that has a good selection and will sell to anyone
though Newark seems to let average joes buy from them now
RS ( not radio shack )
Jameco isn't bad these days either
cradek: dad found a video from the galesberg fest that he recorded of your 5 axis machine. ;)
SWPadnos: thanks a bunch, this looks like it'll do the trick
i thought of using halsampler to collect process input for edm, then play it back & compare the reaction on different machines, to see if same stimulus got same reaction.
hard to control the stimulus that well, I'd imagine :)
though I suppose you could fake the arc voltages and that kind of thing
which is what you said, duh
just to see if the reactions were same, sort of a tuning check ( used to just jam a screwdriver into the gap and see how fast it ran away :)
now that's science!
pcw_home: polymer caps. would they also be named PTFE? or Mica?
they don't go high enough in uF
No they are just a type of aluminum electrolytic
Lots of times for switching power supplies you can use much lower value polymer capacitors
than normal electrolytics as the large size of the normal aluminum electrolytic is chosen more for ESR
and ripple current rating than capacitance
(when used for high frequency side filters not 50/60 Hz filters)
[16:52:37] <pcw_home> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=493-3868-1-ND
Heres an example polymer capacitor (150 Uf 35 VDC 35 mOhm)
(sorry 26 mOhm)
nice price O_o
For some high frequency applications you could replace a 300 uF aluminum
with a 47 uF or smaller polymer
WPadnos> though I suppose you could fake the arc voltages and that kind of thing
12:44 < SWPadnos> which is what you said, duh
You can also put a small polymer capacitor in parallel with a larger aluminum electrolytic
just be aware that most of the HF ripple current will flow through the polymer capacitor
* fragalot broke his 0.1mm V-bit
However, I've found someone that's going to give me a sharpening machine.. if I fix it lol
Question: need to cut a groove with raduis x
move bit from center to -x, what is G3 syntax to cut a full circle ending back at the same x, with y centered on zero?
specify only IJ and you'll get a full circle
sounds like you want something like "g3 i1"
the center of the circle is 0,0? if x is -1 then G3x-1y0i-1j0 I think...
oops- what cradek said.
Ok, I read it as only needing i since y(J) was sitting on zero already, but I'm getting the circle drawn at the right size, and offset its diameter to the right.
* skunkworks always gets the i and j signs messed up the first time.
Ok, I'll try both i & j, but y is sitting on dead center.
with the help of emc2 group I finished my PhD thesys
I want to thank you to cradek, alex_joni, tomp, jepler, Daniel Falck
congratulations, and you're welcome
could you remind me what I did?
back in March 2007 I asked some help in order to modify in real time the feed rate and spindle speed
emc2 is flexible
and using two parports I made some adaptive control
wow, didn't know this was available... since 2007?? I haven't heard of it here in Canada http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz3_T_8uJ3o
I used emc2.1.1
I can sent the abstract if you want
just give me the email
cradek: no j word needed once I got rid of a silent syntax error in a while statement, thanks a bunch
ah 2 new 3mm end mills to replace my broken one
hmm i have no idea how to set up manual tool changes.. i have two tools in my .tbl file and i cant get them to load
M6 T1 G43 or M6 T2 G43
G43 is necessary?
i was doing G10 L1 P1 and then T1M6
g43 is to use tool length offset from tool table
ill try with M6 first
sorry tool length compensation
madsci42: can you say more precisely what problem you're having? people are guessing what's wrong instead of you saying what's wrong.
madsci42: for instance, if you have an error, say what it is
sorry yes, when i issue the T1M6 it becomes sluggish, and nothing indicates the tool has changed
at the bottom of the screen, it shows the current tool number. does that change?
what's it say?
also axis becomes so slow after that command its almost unuseable
are you issuing T1M6 in MDI or in a program?
like its stuck in a loop
interesting. what's your hal configuration for the iocontrol tool change pins?
do you want it to just continue, or do you want it to prompt you to change the tool?
im thinking thats likely my problem because I cant figure out how it needs to be setup - i tried loading axis_manualtoolchange.hal and that made no diff
I would like it to just instantly presume the tool is in place - without prompt
did you generate your configuration with stepconf?
do you want it to just continue, or do you want it to prompt you to change the tool?
just continue and allow me to use whatever offset is configured in the table
what version of emc is this?
distro from the site 2.4.1
i downloaded the tarball a couple days ago
so you've compiled it from tarball - on what kind of system?
debian system, uniprocessor P4 RTAI3.8, kernel 2.6.34
[20:36:56] <cradek> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=configs/max/max.hal;h=cdc8367d7330792a907d4242462986c3c0d2f223;hb=master
here's an example of a null tool change loopback
search for "tool loading loopback"
i see it
'prep' and 'change' are two separate events; these lines make each of them just tell iocontrol immediately that they are finished
if AXIS becomes unresponsive maybe you are getting an error. You should check stdout/stderr for it.
yeah i couldnt get anything on stdout but one time when i killed the process the emc error window came up, there was an error regarding timeout, that was repeating until it counted too many errors
I will try the loopback, since I have nothing in my configs for that
ok, make sure your hal config is right, then retest
hmm do i have to define or include something else for that to work? I am getting "# create signals for tool loading loopback
131 net tool-prep-loop iocontrol.0.tool-prepare iocontrol.0.tool-prepared
132 net tool-change-loop iocontrol.0.tool-change iocontrol.0.tool-changed"
pasted wrong buffer - I'm getting " axis_manualtoolchange.hal:12: Unknown command 'net tool-prep-loop iocontrol.0.tool-prepare iocontrol.0.tool-prepared'
i feel one of those dumb mistakes coming on
Any opinions on FOP milling machines? There is one that appears to be a Polish version of a Deckel (with some differences) on that eBay. There is a chance that it came from the factory with ballscrews.
frigging wood rat chewed into my Cat5e that was running up to the tower at 1:48am last Friday
finally got my Internet back on :)
it works now - i retyped it by hand - must have been something invisible in the paste messing up the command
elmo40: on your crafstman link... it's just more fun to create on yourself :D
* frallzor yawns
[22:12:32] <frallzor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MApJnyk1PV8&feature=related
[22:22:30] <ries> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX09WnGU6ZY
wonder how much teh backslash is....
I love the little people sat all over it.
it's fun... I just think he needs to use EMC...
Is there an RTAI for MacOS?
cool, just got my stepper on Z turning
but I think the scale is wrong
andypugh: not that I know of...
right now, i'm powering it with a bench PS. the toroid transformer I ordered won't be here for a week and a half :(
yo ries, done something nice with le MM? =)
frallzor: I have a lot of customer, but hoping this week to finish my dustfoot
didn't do to much....
=) i see
just got my little baby working again, no hickups =)
frallzor: good... it works pretty always I must say....
[22:42:27] <frallzor> http://www.pici.se/p/large/caIFrJAGh/
my first think I did :P
I did work on a 125year old piece of wood my wife is facing, helped here a bit with facing some parts...
hehe... a man gotta do what a man gotta do... right?
im surprised the machine can do some pretty nice engraving, did some engraving on a cutting board as a gift
the quality is pretty much flawless on 4-5mm letters
Red/BLK 10ga 500ft each spool, both for $60 (I'm assuming stranded)