Thanks anyways jim
no prob,wish i could have helped
lol me too
any idea on my servo run away issue?
unfortunately im a stepper dude
no prob thanks
hopefully will have servo motors one day
start it in terminal,go to calibration and see if you get an error,then post that
how do i do that?
open terminal,type emc,select your config
[00:06:44] <JPM_Mill> http://pastebin.ca/1879391
JPM_Mill: when you move in a positive x does the dro change?
JT: Yes the axis works fine in jog and mpg i only see this behaviour when in mdi
all other axes work fine?
just working on my x axis for now. Waiting on other servos to show up
drive is AB ultra 100 motor is reliance ac servo 5000 rpm 2000 line encoder
JPM_Mill: you use the sample config or roll your own?
i modified the sample config
are you sure its a runaway not just a going quickly or something? how are you interfacing with the servo drive
i also have a heidenhain dro to double check scaling and such
its a run away i asked it to move 2" and it fell short by .5" and emc gave me a position error
thats not runaway
that sounds like tuning
or you have an offset in effect
runaway is you tell it to move .1 and it rockets for the end of the table
or out the door
is it a following error?
reading back that sounds like your not tuned up yet
that would be my guess
ok why is it only in one direction
increase the f-error try again
imbalance somewhere in your drive maybe
and why not in jog or mpg
you might have some bias or something
they are normally slower
a G0 is as fast as it can go
i have .2 ferror allready
have you tuned the servo peramiters?
if the table is at x0 the g01 x-2 works fine but g01 x2 i get a following error
have you used HalScope to know that it "works fine"
sorry killed mah client
what did i miss?
Sweedish nude skydiving team just landed Valen
sorry you missed it
the all girls under 18's team too i presume
JT i will try to plot it
JPM_Mill: either your drive is off or you have a mechanical issue in the X positive
the tuning parameters for all our axis are wildy different
Valen: they just made 18 I think
P id 4.5 on X, and .8 on z for us
JT-Hardinge: oh well, no great loss then ;-P
Well, if it makes you feel any better, my modified motor alignment sequence is utterly useless, so my machine only runs one direction too.
JPM_Mill: I set a velocity trigger then jogged and watched the trace for error
Time to sleep.
good night andy
[00:33:28] <JPM_Mill> http://imagebin.ca/view/rAjhMVs.html
now i will do it for the other direction
[00:36:09] <JPM_Mill> http://imagebin.ca/view/PThElc.html
I don't see anything wrong with that... and I'm way far from a guesspert on tuning.
was that at F20?
yes both were
[00:39:55] <JPM_Mill> http://pastebin.ca/1879449
here is my ini file
did you run over the troubled spot at X1.5?
PGAIN=1500 IGAIN=8000 WOW!
yeah it does not matter where i do it on the table its more direction based than anything
oh dont look at pgain igain or dgain leftovers from an older config
look at p, i and d
here is my hardinge ini http://www.pastebin.ca/1879450
Thanks much of my setup is based off of yours you gave it to me a while ago
I started with all at 0 except P at 1 then increased it till I got some shaking then increase the I a bit to stop it
but do a trace each time to see how each change affects the outcome
I forget so easy :/
all the while increasing the speed as I tweeked the rest
I will i just dont get why its good one way almost too good and the other it's f'ed
that sounds like mechanical or the drive to me
dinner time here! got to go in or I lose out :)
Thanks for your help. later
Valen any thoughts
how are you interfacing between EMC and the servo drive?
increase minferror some and see if you can keep it running for a while
your P is a factor of 10 higher than ours
dunno if that matters
take FF1 down to 0 for the time being
what about backlash could that cause some of this?
[00:56:18] <JPM_Mill> http://imagebin.ca/view/QRNTSg9.html
here is a better plot of the issue
yeah could do
[00:58:03] <JPM_Mill> http://imagebin.ca/view/Irp1SmTv.html
actually test it thusly, move it in one direction, move it again in the same direction, then move it in the oposite direction
increase the minferror so you dont get following errors while playing with it
what you might see is the motor accelerating while moving through the backlash, then when it hits the load it gets slowed down
ah ha its a torque issue
that linearmotionbearings2008 has ballscrew hardware really cheap
when i increased the feed error the drive triped out on overcurrent and dam near shot the table out the door
i have ball screws on order
thanks for the help
still cant get the calibration screen to pop up though
[01:08:26] <fenn> http://designfiles.org/~bryan/images/toolstache.jpg
dave rauchwerk in austin
fenn: what is it?
Cradek: could you help me with my calibration issue?
cradek hey i got image-to-gcode to run on my emc machine
JPM_Mill: sure its not poping up behind axis or something?
question... Is the only way to set the internal estop button is through the halui - 2022halui.estop.activate
* I would like it so when the external 'physical' estop button is pressed - the internal emc one stays pushed even when the external estop is let out.
* skunkworks is off to look at some of the sample configs.
i don't think i started a thread on the ML before, did my G71 one make it?
yes but it probably should have been on the devel list
on users, you may get a lot of useless "it ought to work like ___ [other machine]" without any real understanding of the issues
is it safe to run DRI on emc?
for one thing it's tempting to think of implementing it with O words demarcating the motion (like maybe an O-sub)
none of the rest of emc's gcode uses N words in the way the haas example does
i have no problem with that either
I wonder what's easier (possible) to implement
any problem if i repost this to the devel list? i did want some user input, since i don't know all controls, maybe there is something cool someone brings up, aside from the "industry standard G71 does such and such" i see no standard, i see a "what we are used to in our shop"
cradek: getting geometry from a o word sub sounds good actually, but would need more gcode conversion on our part :) aside from the post processor adjustment and worse, the VeriCut adjustment
but i deal with that when i have a working G71
pfred1: DRI meaning?
Valen Direct Rendering Interface its hardware video acceleration
just wanted to be sure, we did that with our xeon system
nvidia binary drivers
it was SMP though
line/line segments i see no problem with right now, still a little wobly on arc/line intersections, hoping to find a library to peruse, since it's a common thing i would think
nvidia binary drivers just screw stuff up IMO
Valen nvidia does it differently
and good luck getting rid of them once you try them, sadly
cradek, worked fine for us
I should just get a nvidia card for that machine
you can remove them with the uninstall thing in the installer, that seems to work
it'd be easier than setting up the antique ati card i have in it now
I have never seen the nvidia driver not badly screw up latency
binary blobs often do not behave, so my plan is on a radeon card where i can use linux kernel DRM/DRI only
as my momma said - don't come crying to me
cradek on that xeon system we had 2000 latency
cradek software GL is faster than hardware acceleration?
binary drivers keep you behind if they can't be compiled against a newer kernel until they catch up
software gl doesn't screw up latency
cradek: so repost to emc-devel == a'ok?
just seems sort of backwards to me that having hardware and not using it is better than using hardware you have
the problem is the binary driver may not play nice with latency
morfic: I guess I have no opinion about whether you should repost it right away. I think you've got my input already from our previous conversations...
I think it's safe to assume that all -devel readers also read -users
so the only reason to post to -devel instead of -users is to avoid unwanted noise
(fortunately it's finally calmed down a bit lately)
my emc machine locked up yesterday running the regular ati driver
I think I usually end up running the vesa driver on whatever old video card
I may have to upgrade
pfred1: How goes your step driver project?
I'm working on the machine now
Have you tried dual motors yet?
no not yet
well wait I did a while back ran two drivers
but not in a machine just on my workbench
I'm curious to see how it behaves
they'll be on different lead screws
Ah. I thought you had some idea a driving a single leadscrew at both ends...
well I thought about it but I'm not doing that with this machine
Would be a pain wiring wise
I need to turn down the end of my leads so I can connect them to my motors
how you figure?
well if one axis has to move then you have 2 cables at both ends to guide/protect
I htink I'm going to go with the draped wire effect
I mean a cable at each end
Yep seen a lot of the draped wire system...
I'll have to drape Y and Z X will be stationary
I have to see tomorrow if my rig up will work to turn down my lead screws
I'm going to run hose motor couplers
What kind of leadscrews?
but my stepper motor shafts are 1/4" so I need to turn an end down some so I can get a hose to fit on both
I figure i can grind an end while it spins
I'll see tomorrow how well that works
This is a retrofit?
no I'm scratch building a router gantry
So what kind of nuts you us use on the leadscrew?
I'll make fiber or HDPE haven't decided yet I'll make each see whic hI prefer
cradek: then i just sit tight and next time i find myself with spare time start diving into the interpreter with some more schmackes ;)
I ended up getting a Fireball CNC
morfic: that way lies madness, you know...
Don't know if I mentioned it to you.
I'm also in the process of acquiring a Gecko.
It'll be a while yet; funds are scarce.
someone elsein here has a fireball they say their table warps
well dips or bows in the middle
is it possible to set NiCr string temperature while cutting in emc2? i mean to set what voltage should be applied on string.
mk0: not without doing some work
I imagine you could set spindle speed from the g-code, and do some HAL scaling on that to control your current, which results in the needed temperature
oh, no, not so "right", without feedback, just with keyboard.
mk0: it depends how you plan to control the voltage
cradek: I tried installing EMC2 on 10.04 as you told me. It seemed to install, and the /etc/security/limits.conf file even had a commented out line similar to your wiki line. But I haven't been able to get it to start using either line. Toolchange window comes up, then crash. Using your wiki line "* - memlock 20480" gives me these errors http://www.pastebin.ca/1879572
. And using the included line "* hard memlock 20480 #EMC2" gives me these errors http
://www.pastebin.ca/1879575 . Any advice? Thanks in advance.
cradek: Oops, flooding again, that last link should be http://www.pastebin.ca/1879575
. Thanks again.
KimK: the first attempt is good ;)
"* - memlock 20480"
the error you're getting (albeit also memory related) is because of an old emc.nml
e.g. using a 2.3.x config on 2.4.x
Oh, OK, I didn't think of that, I thought that was handled in the new packages. I'll go try again. BRB.
KimK: so put the initial line in, reboot
then try emc2 with a copy of a sample config, it should work
then you can take over your config, and comment out the NML_FILE line
This was a sample config (AXIS_9-axis), but I never went in an blocked the nml line, I never thought of that, I'll go try all this. Thanks!
KimK: Machine configuration directory is '/home/kkirwan/emc2/configs/sim'
maybe it's a config that's left over from 2.3.x
btw, you should install emc2-2.4.1 not 2.4.0
but I see it's not compiled for 10.04 yet, so disregard that :)
Yes, I was going to ask about Synaptic and EMC2 repositories for 10.04, etc., but I thought better of it. All in due time, I guess. I'll be right back.
alex_joni: Thanks, that (those?) fixed it. I'll look forward to the creation of 10.04 repositories, etc. If it seemed to take quite a while, it was because I decided (while rebooting anyway) to boot my 8.04 partition, which hasn't seen much use lately, and check for updates. Yes, about 150 Megs worth. Thanks again for your help.
alex_joni: Well, OK, almost working. Latency test does not seem to start, at least not from the main menu. Stepconf wizard does start.
Ha, my fault, I left EMC/AXIS running and forgot about it. Latency works fine.
Thanks again, back later.
there any noticable differences between 10.04 and 8.04 EMC wise?
only that 10.04 isn't quite as tested
10 second boot vs 40 might be nice ;->
and that there isn't a repository for emc2 yet
it'll get there, patience :D
no latency changes or anything?
well, the 10.04 kernel is SMP by default now
and it seems that on SMP systems that improves latency a bit
but I haven't booted it myself yet :)
halved or better on my 2
so.. it's only hearsay your honour
on my xeon it went from ~10k to 2k, and the atom from ~8k to 4k
the xeon is using the binary nvidia driver to boot, lots of powah graphics wise there
EDM anyone? https://www.surplex.com/de/maschinen/ansicht,7,gf-system-3r-junior-grosser-posten-erodierzubehoer-91947.html?auction_id=123&lotnr=20
Is that just the tools (bits? )
Lots of 'em
electrodes if for edm i guess
sure is alot of whosits
i saw a few whatnots
a few spapoops in there too I think... kinda hard to see the detail
well this is interesting... when I enable the amps on my mill the X and Y move at a speed much faster than rapid about 1" then I get a following error...
* frallzor wishes he had a usb-dvdrom now
hmm, the dro part works on all three axis
hmm why this odd boot error
anyone with a nice guide on how to make the live-cd boot from usb? :P
no, but the internet knows how
there's nothing special about our cd - you can use the ubuntu instructions
check the ubuntu forums
then I might have a crappy memory or something
ill try another
halfway there, but the bloody creator just made a plain live-cd with no install option :P
but there is a nice install icon on the desktop, so hey might work
well this seems to turn out fine =D
frallzor: sounds like 10.4
now its just to config emc and the touchscreen
anyone try these guys? http://www.tools4cheap.net/
which buttons = = on us layout?
next to 'backspace'
top row: `1234567890-=
ah bloody computer works like a charm
horrible feeling isn't it ;)
now I just need to setup the screen
13500ns is the best latency I can get atm, glxgears, moving windows around, opening FF etc etc
I got near the same on my P4 box
frallzor, I found a new way to upset latency on a box, edit a file and use the scroll wheel on the mouse to scroll the file
anyon into linux and want to help a poor little man getting his touchscreen working? :)
frallzor, after I get mine going I will
bloody LG monitor
takes more than my knowledge to get it going =)
may be old... http://www.linuxjunkies.org/html/XFree86-Touch-Screen-HOWTO.html
but it will be working
it works but need evtouch or some driver like that
x and y flipped and boxy movement
LG doesn't make the touch part... someone else does.
[17:04:35] <elmo40> http://www.conan.de/touchscreen/evtouch.html
ive been through this before, I cant fix it =)
but it seems simple enough for someone into ubuntu
but the link you posted last should be the solution
not to just get the evtouch driver
If you had one of these, would you pay $152 to get an extra 3yr onsite warranty http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/quickPath.do?quickPathEntry=87445BU
If it doesn't take you straight to the correct page, click on the lenovo link, then paste the url again (I think it needs a cookie)
if its as good as the one ive experienced with my dell. yes
Did you look at the machine?
help the day after the call
cant see a machine at all there
but Id take the warranty if the machine is important to you
follow the instructions I gave =)
Then click on PRODUCT INFORMATION, then on OVERVIEW
T7200(2GHz), 1GB RAM, 120GB 5400rpm HD, 15.4in 1680x1050 LCD, 128MB ATI Radeon X1400, CDRW/DVDRW, 802.11n wireless, Bluetooth/Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, Fingerprint reader, 6c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro
well if its important and if it breaks you need it fast, sure the warranty is nice to have
It now has 4GB ram and 350GB hdd,
That's not the point, it's a matter of where to invest the money. In a warranty, or towards a new machine.
That's why I gave the spec link.
you you wanted to ask if it was worth warranty
$152 in a P3 wouldn't be a good investment no matter what, as example.
for a new one
get a new one then =)
at least the Anilam has encoder feedback and the drives look like they might take a velocity input...
to know the distance / rew for a pinion, is it pi * the number of teeth?
haven't used my 10.4 VM in a while, 153 packages to update already, weee
hmm, my Anilam has a dead battery on the multi function board... I think I'll change it
instead of converting it to EMC
BRAND NEW BP http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1783075733.html
new battery for my BP $6 delivered to my door
Battery? BP? Blood Pressure ?
BP series 1 with Anilam CNC control on it .... PAY ATTENTION JYMMMMMMMM!
JT-Work: the GE550 control I took off the hnc had a bank of D cell nicads and what looked like a car battery charger to charge them
cradek: that's bizzare imo
what is the short command for entering terminal? just in case I mess up when trying to get touch working? =)
JT-Work: also, it had a whiteboard-type area on the front panel to write the numbers with a pen, so you can put them back in when it forgets
... using the thumbwheels
Well, wasn't that nice of them
yeah, very pragmatic
Hmmmm, I don't NEED one, but... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1782693652.html
Is that one of those china specials?
you can get a new china special for that $40
there are very few things that I've actually used one of those with
I use mine occasionally. I wish it were a little bigger. 12x18 is a common size because they're around 80lb and therefore easy to carry around and easy to ship.
cradek, what do you use it for?
mostly, marking and measuring with a height gauge
taking a flat suface, and seeing where the high points are?
yes sometimes that - but more often, just marking layout lines
I don't do it too much because I have cnc though.
what? how would one of those be useful for layout lines?
[18:28:37] <cradek> http://www.ehow.com/how_5207111_use-height-gauge.html
[18:29:44] <cradek> http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Accessories/Layout/height_gage.jpg
[18:30:05] <cradek> http://www.finelinehair.com/home/height_gage_scribe.jpg
I just use my dial calapers and get close for layouts... to doube check against the DRO.. make sure I'm not off by .1" or more or something stupid like that
yes that can get you close, but a flat base is important if you need to measure or mark an actual height perpendicular to it
hmm, most of the stuff I've made can start with a nice square piece
cradek: the Anilam support guy asked me if I had the disk from the machine builder... I said no, he said ok, when you get the battery installed call me back and we will play 20 questions
never really did anything with castings type things... which I presure would be more useful for
I have an army issue cast iron surface plate about 12x18
* JT-Work wanders over to do some manual milling on the cnc mill :/
i never use those gages
too expensive for marking
ries_ is now known as ries
bah I hate ubuntu 8.04 =(
it just wont stop using the default driver for the touch
Considering that I thought that Dean Smith and Grace looked to be about to close for good when I visited 10 years ago, they do appear to be still going. And their latest machine is a monster: http://www.deansmithandgrace.co.uk/icms_assets/files/Travelling_Gantry_Machine.pdf
<cradek> mostly, marking and measuring with a height gauge <WalterN> what? how would one of those be useful for layout lines? <--- interesting when you realize how natural some stuff comes, that's still a special occasion for others
how hard and time consuming is it to install emc2 from scratch?
and building an rtai-enabled kernel?
i guess not really time consuming if you don't run into strange problems - i think the general procedure is documented somewhere
morfic: special occasion for who?
frallzor: a couple minutes from source once you have all deps
WalterN: those who wonder how you would use a surface plate in the process of marking and measuring parts
oh, measuring parts I do it all the time
or rater, a nice solid hard flat surface
just... never for making layout lines
Most height gauges I have seen have had a carbide tip specifically for marking-out work.
anyway, gotta run back to the shop, TTFN
Set the gauge, plonk the work on the table, slide the height gauge past it, and there you have a line
eric_unterhausen is now known as EricKeller
frallzor: About 8 hours, including all the downloads and kernel-building.
OT: I know someone who is participating in RAAM, bike race from Cali to Maryland
the leading woman has been averaging over 15mph for 26 hours
guess ill wait and see if my monitor will work first =)
Might be quicker if you a) know what you are doing and b) have a fast computer.
I have no idea what im doing =)
cant even get my touchscreen working on my own :)
kernel building can take a while. I had some slow computers that required a custom kernel for any kind of performance -- easily took 8 hours just for the build
I struggled for weeks, until somebody here made this set of instructions, that just worked. http://neo-technical.wikispaces.com/emc2-ubuntu
if your going to roll a kernel on a slow computer, look at distcc
lets you get multiple computers in on the compiling action
that sounds interesting, but they were on robots so the networking was a pain
anyone tried these? http://www.linuxcnc.org/mozmck/
seems pretty nice if it works without hickups for a stable system
Is it SMP?
[23:08:49] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetric_multiprocessing
they are packages at least
too confused, bed, NN
the 10.04 stuff is
dont know about that one though
This looks like a great deal http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1783942625.html
$2100 obo for a BP + tooling
wish I had a place for it and 220V@60A circuit =(
andypugh: 8 hours? o_O
Custom kernel from scratch, including downloading the dependencies, about that, yes.
60A 200v is a lot of A
I think clothes dryer is 40A