Back
[00:06:44] <andypugh> OK, time to log
[00:13:19] <wes_baker> Cradek has been helping me with some pid tune issues. I don't think the I term is behaving properly and have some interesting scope screen shots.
[00:13:55] <wes_baker> http://imagebin.ca/view/n9z1ZrTI.html is the x axis jog
[00:13:55] <wes_baker> http://imagebin.ca/view/rqaLIy.html is the y axis jog
[00:13:56] <wes_baker> http://imagebin.ca/view/Lw8g4hZE.html is the z axis jog
[00:13:56] <wes_baker> (Z axis is the only one where I works as expected but I haven't really tuned on it much.)
[00:13:56] <wes_baker> http://imagebin.ca/view/IpiPx6.html
[00:13:56] <wes_baker> This image is actuall tool path at about 60 inches per minute. It is from the x axis
[00:13:58] <wes_baker> and it includes the errorI for that axis as well.
[00:14:00] <wes_baker> Tune values:
[00:14:02] <wes_baker> P=56
[00:14:03] <wes_baker> I=0
[00:14:05] <wes_baker> D=1
[00:14:07] <wes_baker> ff0=0
[00:14:11] <wes_baker> ff1=-.02
[00:14:15] <wes_baker> ff2=-.02
[00:14:18] <wes_baker> deadband=.0002
[00:18:58] <cradek> can you point out something specific that you think means I isn't working right?
[00:19:14] <cradek> looking at the Z plot I think it looks fairly sane
[00:22:14] <JPM> For some reason calibration will not pop up when selected. any ideas?
[00:22:39] <cradek> check stdout/stderr
[00:26:33] <JPM> Cradek:Sorry for my ignorance. How do i do that?
[00:27:02] <wes_baker> I have to add negative I in order to get the steady state error to creap towards zero for one.
[00:28:10] <wes_baker> For another, If I continually add enough negative I to get near the response rate that I want, I have two negative effects.
[00:28:46] <wes_baker> First negative is the loop oscillates.
[00:29:22] <wes_baker> Second negative is that it takes a long time to settle into zero.
[00:29:29] <wes_baker> zero error i mean
[00:31:27] <Valen> whats a cheap source for rotatry encoders?
[00:31:54] <JPM> Valen:Try US digital
[00:32:13] <wes_baker> Yes, US Digital
[00:34:12] <JPM> Wes i know you have been trying to fix your tuning issues for a while now. Could you have a mechanical problem?
[00:34:31] <wes_baker> Well, I don't think it could have one on each axis.
[00:34:58] <wes_baker> The Y axis is at a disadvantage though. Little bit of backlash and really high pitch on the screw
[00:35:04] <JPM> Are you motor sized to the load?
[00:35:38] <wes_baker> I bought a used "Techno" router that had existing servo motors, encoders, amps, screws.
[00:36:02] <wes_baker> From the physical response of the machine injecting 1.5 volts command signal to the amps, the motors are very adequate.
[00:39:03] <JPM> Wes: Screws leads or ball
[00:39:11] <wes_baker> ball screws
[00:40:47] <JPM> Wes:What size is the router (Sorry just forget )
[00:40:58] <wes_baker> 5 hp spindle
[00:41:16] <wes_baker> I am using a hobby level machine now with a porter cable mounted to it
[00:41:29] <wes_baker> I'm really looking fwd to see what I can do with an industrial level machine
[00:41:58] <wes_baker> I cut out some 5.000 inch circles in plywood with my current tuning.
[00:42:05] <wes_baker> measured them to see how consistent they were
[00:42:08] <wes_baker> pretty good
[00:42:21] <wes_baker> .005 over in the x direction and .012 under in the y direction.
[00:42:25] <wes_baker> Seems strange.
[00:42:44] <wes_baker> I double-checked the scale with a dial indicator. Looks perfect in 1" moves.
[00:42:52] <wes_baker> I can't read any backlash
[00:43:06] <wes_baker> But the variance in dimension is consistent.
[00:43:30] <wes_baker> I'm trying to determine if my current level of tuning is "good enough" or if it is contributing to my problem.
[00:43:43] <wes_baker> I can fake the scale of the Y axis out a little and probably go to work with it
[00:43:55] <wes_baker> just trying to learn about emc and get things right
[00:44:32] <JPM> Personall i am amazed on how well emc runs and the kind of performance you can get out of it even on a epp based setup The EMC support community really needs a ovation for the work they have done to let a guy like me to walk in read ask questions and get a seytem up and running fairly easily.
[00:44:47] <JPM> Me too
[00:45:02] <wes_baker> I am really impressed as well
[00:45:42] <wes_baker> I have been running Mach3 on a windows box. Parallel port connected to Gecko drives connected to little servos and encoders.
[00:45:58] <wes_baker> Mach3 is good as well.
[00:46:05] <wes_baker> But it does have it's limitations.
[00:46:17] <wes_baker> And the windows box I have it running has standard windoze issues
[00:46:49] <wes_baker> Looks like everybody is busy with other stuff right now.
[00:47:03] <wes_baker> I will sign out and try again around 10:00 pm central
[00:47:06] <JPM> Yes it is i just like the idea of a true machine controller closing the loop all in one place
[00:47:40] <JPM> wes: later
[00:47:45] <wes_baker> later
[01:17:59] <jlmjvm> JPM:did you get your calibration screen working yet?
[01:25:04] <jlmjvm> is it a parport setup?
[01:49:10] <JPM_Mill> No i have not
[01:49:26] <JPM_Mill> Yes mesa 7i43
[02:28:46] <WesBaker> checking to see if cradek or swpadnos are on. I started threads with these guys and didn't have images ready to post to complete the conversation.
[02:33:35] <morfic> WesBaker: you can always link them, stick around until they are around to reply, chances are someone else might be able to help too, or they just happen to be back around to look when you paste the link(s) in here?
[02:34:12] <WesBaker> http://imagebin.ca/view/n9z1ZrTI.html is the x axis jog
[02:34:12] <WesBaker> http://imagebin.ca/view/rqaLIy.html is the y axis jog
[02:34:12] <WesBaker> http://imagebin.ca/view/Lw8g4hZE.html is the z axis jog
[02:34:12] <WesBaker> (Z axis is the only one where I works as expected but I haven't really tuned on it much.)
[02:34:12] <WesBaker> http://imagebin.ca/view/IpiPx6.html
[02:34:13] <WesBaker> This image is actuall tool path at about 60 inches per minute. It is from the x axis
[02:34:14] <WesBaker> and it includes the errorI for that axis as well.
[02:34:18] <WesBaker> Tune values:
[02:34:20] <WesBaker> P=56
[02:34:23] <WesBaker> I=0
[02:34:25] <WesBaker> D=1
[02:34:27] <WesBaker> ff0=0
[02:34:28] <WesBaker> ff1=-.02
[02:34:30] <WesBaker> ff2=-.02
[02:34:32] <WesBaker> deadband=.0002
[02:35:03] <WesBaker> So looking at the actual toopath image cutting 60 inches per minute; is this good or bad?
[02:38:38] <morfic> i wish i knew, i'm just curious since i practice LBL as much as i can right now
[02:39:06] <WesBaker> LBL?
[02:39:19] <morfic> learning by lurking
[02:49:55] <SWPadnos> WesBaker, can you put your ini and config files on
http://pastebin.ca
[02:50:14] <SWPadnos> I'm getting tired tonight, but I (or we) can look at them tomorrow
[02:50:15] <WesBaker> Yes. I'll do that right now and post the link.
[02:50:22] <SWPadnos> thanks
[02:50:39] <SWPadnos> all in all, those plots don't look too bad, following error is within +/- 0.002 or so
[03:04:23] <WesBaker> Sorry that took forever. I had to go out to the shop and get it off the machine.
http://pastebin.ca/1878820
[03:29:54] <WesBaker> it is good to know that mine don't look too bad
[03:30:28] <WesBaker> I guess I will sign out an try again later.
[03:30:36] <KimK> cradek: I ran more than 20 castings on John's PB2 using 2.4.2.pre, and saw nothing unusual.
[03:30:48] <WesBaker> Looks like everybody is busy
[03:31:08] <KimK> WesBaker: I've got a few minutes
[03:31:35] <WesBaker> I'am trying to improve the tuning on my machine.
[03:32:03] <WesBaker> According to swpadnos where I am at is "not too bad" so maybe there is not much left to do
[03:32:31] <WesBaker> The links above to the images of the halscope plots show where I am right now
[03:32:49] <KimK> OK, I'll look, hold on
[03:37:31] <KimK> I notice as I compare the pictures that X has 4 traces, Y has 2 traces, Z has 3 traces. And the scaling values are set differently too. Makes it a little difficult to compare axis-to-axis. Are the axes of vastly different size?
[03:39:37] <KimK> Also, X was the only shot that used channel 4. the others used 1,2 & 5,6.
[03:39:53] <WesBaker> The x and y have the exact same motor. Z has a much smaller motor
[03:40:06] <KimK> OK.
[03:40:46] <KimK> How about relative mass on X & Y?
[03:40:52] <WesBaker> All I was really interested in for these were the following error and the encoder velocity (I triggered of encoder velocity). The other items are on there extraneously.
[03:41:06] <KimK> OK.
[03:41:10] <WesBaker> Mass? The machine is a gantry style three axis router
[03:41:38] <WesBaker> X is the gantry moving back and forth on the table with the spindle and all. 150 pounds
[03:42:01] <WesBaker> Y is the axis up and down the gantry. Just moves the spindle and the Z slide. 80 pounds
[03:42:15] <WesBaker> Z is the up and down. Moves the spindle motor. 60 pounds
[03:42:25] <KimK> OK, thanks.
[03:43:53] <KimK> BTW (and this has nothing to do with tuning, just me being curious), what are the travel lengths on each axis?
[03:44:13] <WesBaker> x travels about 104 inches. Y is 60 inch. Z is 6 inch
[03:44:51] <KimK> And X is driven from one side or both sides? (me curious again)
[03:45:21] <KimK> I mean you didn't mention X and X', but I wondered if there's a driveshaft.
[03:45:26] <WesBaker> x is a big fixed ball screw down the center underneath the table. The motor turns a ball nut and rides with the gantry
[03:45:37] <KimK> Oh, OK, excellent.
[03:45:56] <WesBaker> center drive. Old style of linear bearings down each side.
[03:46:09] <KimK> Sounds very good.
[03:51:05] <KimK> I see your deadband is .0002, what's that in encoder counts? And is the Z axis geared/scaled the same as X & Y?
[03:52:07] <WesBaker> encoder counts on X are .0001 and on Y it is like .0005
[03:52:17] <WesBaker> I'd have to look up the ini file to see for sure
[03:53:19] <KimK> Are those tuning values shown a few lines back the same for all axes?
[03:55:22] <KimK> So X scaling is 10,000 counts/inch and Y scaling is 2000/counts/inch?
[03:55:24] <WesBaker> No, that was just for the X axis.
[03:55:52] <WesBaker> There is about a 4x or 5x difference between x and y as far as pulses per inch.
[03:56:03] <WesBaker> I'm having trouble finding where that is at in the ini file, but I'm looking
[03:58:03] <KimK> They should be toward the end, in the [AXIS_n] sections. Well, whatever you have set up, you've got your following error down to .002" or so, so that's good.
[03:58:40] <WesBaker> Then maybe I'm just "done". I'm shooting for "very good" though.
[03:59:10] <KimK> You found that adding I did not help?
[03:59:28] <WesBaker> Well, that gets to the crux of the matter.
[03:59:47] <WesBaker> I wanted to add I before I even understood how the FF gains worked
[04:00:07] <WesBaker> One of the plots on the screen-shot shows what the response is with P only control
[04:00:24] <WesBaker> You see a large steady-state error while the axis is traveling at a uniform velicyty.
[04:00:40] <WesBaker> Textbook. Just like you'd expect. Add I to cancel it. Right?
[04:00:54] <WesBaker> Well if you add I then it doesn't seem to have any effect
[04:01:32] <WesBaker> With an initial P of something like 60, and a period of .020 when the gain is set to make it unstable, zig nichols said use something like 40 or 80 for I
[04:01:38] <WesBaker> It does nothing
[04:01:41] <WesBaker> You can move it to 400
[04:01:43] <WesBaker> Nothing
[04:01:49] <WesBaker> 4,000?
[04:02:25] <WesBaker> Well, it starts to get unstable but it acts like you added a bunch of P. It doesn't cause the error to close towards zero and just oscillates around that fixed offset point
[04:02:28] <WesBaker> Strange.
[04:02:45] <KimK> What type of motors and drives are these?
[04:02:51] <WesBaker> Piddle with it long enough and you discover that if you put in NEGATIVE NUMBERS for I that you get the anticipated response
[04:03:19] <WesBaker> type? brush servo motors and simple amps that have no feedback. Encoder goes straight to emc and no tach
[04:04:00] <WesBaker> But with the negative numbers in for I, even though I get the anticipated drift towards zero error, I get some other issues
[04:04:41] <WesBaker> The drift towards zero error at a constant velocity is too slow to do much good.
[04:05:07] <KimK> How about the amp control signals, what are they?
[04:05:19] <WesBaker> If I put in a large enough negative number to get the response I want, by the time it reaches zero error, there is enough I value "wrapped up" that it drives it right through zero error
[04:05:43] <WesBaker> The control signals to the amp are +/- 10 volts
[04:07:35] <KimK> And no tach gen you said. Any feedback from encoder to drive? Or does the encoder go directly to the drive and provide an encoder follower output for EMC2? (What's your EMC2 interface, BTW?)
[04:08:14] <KimK> Otherwise I have to presume that your encoder goes directly to EMC2.
[04:08:18] <WesBaker> No feedback from encoder to drive. Encoder goes straight to emc. Interface is mesa 5i20
[04:09:05] <WesBaker> drive can be nothing but a simple volts to amps amplifier and converter. command from EMC to motor means "torque" not "velocity".
[04:09:12] <KimK> OK, so you're essentially running in torque mode, then, I believe.
[04:09:21] <KimK> Ha, we reached the same conclusion!
[04:09:28] <KimK> So there you go then.
[04:09:40] <KimK> That's your trouble.
[04:09:47] <WesBaker> Yes, and other folks here said there are no specific settings for "torque mode" and that it is just a matter of tuning problems.
[04:09:53] <WesBaker> What's the trouble???
[04:10:03] <KimK> Why don't you fix it with hal?
[04:10:13] <WesBaker> fix what with hal?
[04:11:58] <WesBaker> KimK: Fix what with hal? What is it that is "the trouble"?
[04:13:11] <KimK> I think what you really want is a velocity loop. Your PID output is a position error output. So that works great for a velocity input amp. (How fast do we need to go to get to where we want to be?) A torque mode amp is expecting "how hard to we need to be turning right now", which is not exactly the same thing. But you can fix it in hal...
[04:14:23] <WesBaker> OK, I understand you feel like a more sofisticated drive that had it's own control loop and could maintain velocity would be a better set-up.
[04:14:36] <WesBaker> But I'm really confused how we can "fix it in hal ..."
[04:15:37] <KimK> Take the encoder signal and extract velocity, then sum that (at least sum, maybe PID, I'll have to think about that one.) against the PID error velocity and send the output of *that* to your torque input amp. I think that will work better for you.
[04:15:58] <KimK> Yes, I think sum is right.
[04:16:27] <KimK> Or you can leave it the way it is and say it's good enough.
[04:17:06] <KimK> You would just be closing the velocity loop in EMC2 instead of in the drive with a tach gen.
[04:17:16] <WesBaker> I've got to turn in or the wife is going to kill me. I'll have to re-read that comment a couple of times and think about it. First glance doesn't fit in my mind. Error input to the PID loop now is a position error not a velocity error.
[04:17:36] <KimK> Yes, and that is as it should be.
[04:17:47] <WesBaker> Thanks for your input!
[04:17:49] <KimK> OK, goodnight, I'll be around tomorrow.\
[04:27:59] <cradek> KimK: that is excellent news about the 2.4 branch. thanks for testing it on ppmc for us.
[04:29:00] <cradek> it's common to have a .0 release be imperfect but it's too bad the .1 is as well (for ppmc)
[04:29:22] <cradek> even without jon elson testing, we'll be able to do better next time with your help earlier in the process
[04:30:00] <KimK> Sure, I'm glad to do it (now that I'm learning more about how, lol)
[04:30:17] <KimK> Why isn't Jon testing?
[04:30:28] <cradek> I assume he's just busy
[04:31:07] <cradek> he doesn't keep up with emc stuff very well - he's too busy using his machines to even keep them updated (and I can sympathize with that)
[04:31:25] <KimK> OK, well, I'm glad to help out. Were you following the above advice I was giving to WesBaker, and did it seem right to you?
[04:31:55] <cradek> I skimmed it. I wonder about making a velocity loop in hal too. I've never tried it.
[04:32:09] <KimK> I hate to be sending someone on a wild goose chase, but I think that's what his underlying difficulty is.
[04:32:31] <cradek> a single torque mode pid seems to work acceptably for folks - that's how all jon elson's pwm servo amps are set up
[04:33:00] <cradek> I only have experience tuning velocity systems (and it's quite easy to get good results)
[04:34:26] <cradek> so you think he should try two pid loops with the inner velocity->torque and the outer position->velocity
[04:34:34] <KimK> Running a torque mode drive in a velocity loop, well, it's like being able to put all kinds of baloney in the feedback loop of an op-amp, and things just sort of "work themselves out" in the end. Well, almost, anyway.
[04:34:48] <KimK> The right way to do it is to take the baloney out of the loop.
[04:35:19] <cradek> seems like he's going to have trouble getting a stable velocity loop because he has crap for velocity feedback
[04:35:52] <cradek> is he ppmc or mesa? at least mesa has smart encoder velocity output
[04:35:59] <KimK> I don't even think he needs two PIDs (but it would be fun to try it). I think if he just sums the two velocities he'll be close enough, and not have to add more tuning issues.
[04:36:20] <KimK> He said he was using a 5i20
[04:36:31] <cradek> sums what two velocities?
[04:38:19] <KimK> Sum the position error (velocity output) with the encoder velocity (velocity feedback) and send the difference (velocity command) out to the drive.
[04:38:44] <KimK> At least thats the way it seems to me it should work. That's why I was asking you what you thought abouot all of this.
[04:39:21] <KimK> The idea is it's like closing the tach gen loop, but in EMC2 (and without a tach gen)
[04:39:55] <KimK> Yes, there will be issues with very slow feed rates (pulse... pulse... pulse...) but what else can you do?
[04:40:26] <KimK> Besides, with a router, he won't want to drag his feet anyway.
[04:40:31] <cradek> I think I see what you mean - take pid output (coming from position error so it's a commanded velocity) and invert/add the encoder velocity feedback to it. you get velocity error, which makes sense for a torque command
[04:41:11] <KimK> RIght, and that's really what they are doing in a velocity drive anyway. Maybe I should write this up for the wiki?
[04:41:26] <cradek> it would sure be interesting to try
[04:41:50] <KimK> Ha, I'll see if I can get Wes to try it for us, lol.
[04:44:22] <cradek> my little lathe has totally dumb amps. it is tuned with single pid like wes's machine. I kind of doubt it has enough mass for us to see any difference with a better control scheme.
[04:44:41] <cradek> jeff's little mill is the same way - I think it's running on a mesa dumb H bridge card
[04:46:46] <KimK> OK. Maybe the slow feedrate problem (pulse... pulse... pulse...) can be mitigated with some kind of following filter? or differentiator?
[04:47:25] <cradek> if your feedback is discrete you'll get steps in position - no getting around it
[04:47:33] <cradek> I think any filtering gives lag which makes it untunable
[04:47:44] <KimK> Oops, not a differentiator, we don't want to make things worse, lol. I guess a low-pass filter or integrator?
[04:48:19] <KimK> Yeah, you might be right. Maybe just a tiny bit to smooth the pulse peaks?
[04:48:46] <cradek> the mesa encoder velocity output is smart and gives nice results until you get below a count per servo cycle - then of course it doesn't know whether you've stopped or not
[04:49:21] <cradek> jon elson said he wanted to try to add smart velocity output to ppmc (timestamp based)
[04:49:24] <cradek> ... at workshop
[04:49:41] <cradek> I think he's been wanting to do it for a few years
[04:49:56] <cradek> if your scheme works, it might really help his users of his pwm servo amps
[04:50:54] <cradek> you and he should definitely team up at workshop
[04:51:00] <KimK> Maybe we could do the same as the Mesa driver? When hal extracts the encoder velocity, have hal set a minimum velocity "enable" too? If it's going "too slow", then don't monkey with it.
[04:52:08] <cradek> I didn't follow that
[04:52:59] <KimK> I was referring to what you said earlier about how the mesa driver works. And I think we could do something similar in hal.
[04:53:36] <KimK> Oops, not mesa driver, "mesa encoder velocity output"
[04:53:48] <cradek> I hear it all depends [somehow] on having sub-cycle timestamps on your encoder edges
[04:53:57] <cradek> I'm not smart enough for that kind of thing
[04:54:20] <KimK> Oh, OK, well that would be great too, that would work!
[04:54:37] <KimK> But I don't know how to implement that.
[04:55:34] <cradek> for ppmc, you can't, because the firmware doesn't do it, and the firmware is closed
[04:55:39] <KimK> I wonder what seb would have to say about this sub-cycle timestamp business?
[04:55:47] <cradek> so you can only nag your vendor...
[04:56:04] <cradek> maybe he'd say "leave me alone, I already did that once" :-)
[04:56:10] <KimK> haha
[04:56:22] <cradek> jmk did it in the software encoder counter too
[04:56:36] <cradek> (because it actually has base period resolution)
[04:57:10] <KimK> maybe that would be sufficient?
[04:57:29] <KimK> Oh, no, nevermind, sorry
[04:57:36] <KimK> Whoops
[04:59:53] <KimK> re closed firmware: such things as that linksys wireless access point used to be closed firmware, and now you have DD-WRT, and Tomato, and what-not. So you never know.
[05:00:44] <cradek> I used openwrt on two at work - they crash regularly, haha :-/
[05:01:01] <cradek> I should try updating or something.
[05:01:13] <KimK> ha, is openwrt the paid one? I can't remember.
[05:01:22] <cradek> openwrt is the actual free-software one
[05:01:24] <KimK> No, that's a different one, isn't it.
[05:01:41] <cradek> dd-wrt is pseudofree (lots of gpl problems)
[05:01:44] <cradek> I don't know about the rest
[05:01:55] <KimK> DD-WRT and Tomato are free/open, maybe try one of those?
[05:02:27] <cradek> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Controversy
[05:03:54] <KimK> So I'm a little confused, is DD-WRT back in the fold, then? All is well once more?
[05:04:15] <cradek> I don't know - it looks controversial so I haven't used it
[05:05:01] <KimK> OK, well, maybe try Tomato then?
[05:05:10] <cradek> thanks, I'll read about it
[05:06:57] <MattyMatt> my WRT is still running VxWorks
[05:07:25] <MattyMatt> it's a v5, so I can only run the mini dd-wrt
[05:07:59] <MattyMatt> I'm not brave enough to upgrade the memory
[05:10:26] <MattyMatt> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hobbymat-MD65-Metal-Work-Lathe-/160439645202 , and I got not money
[05:11:08] <KimK> Hi MattyMatt, Hi Valen : You guys can keep chatting, I want to go have some stew. And go open my package from US Digital, which should have the encoder cables I need to plug into the card I want to work on at the workshop. And some differential receiver "globs" to add to John's ppmc usc board to make the encoder inputs differential-capable. And an E5D encoder we hope to run off against an CUI AMT-10x, if we can get them to both fit on the same shaft.
[05:11:53] <MattyMatt> bleh, I've been waiting for the postman for a week now :) A used 1" rail
[05:12:15] <KimK> for a slide?
[05:12:21] <MattyMatt> with a slide
[05:12:53] <KimK> Oh, OK. What are you making?
[05:13:09] <MattyMatt> I'll cut a hole in the side of my machine, and have 5" sticking out the side
[05:13:18] <MattyMatt> stiffening my plywood mill
[05:13:42] <KimK> Ah, sounds good. Rigid is better.
[05:14:32] <MattyMatt> I'm OK milling wood as is, but I want to tackle some more challenging materials :)
[05:16:11] <MattyMatt> with the rail fitted, my priority shifts to the backlash on the table
[05:16:54] <MattyMatt> I could fix it with that lathe :p
[05:17:01] <MattyMatt> I like yellow
[05:17:11] <MattyMatt> it's so cute
[05:17:49] <KimK> Ah, yes, backlash. Backlash is evil. And backlash comp is like a blindfold.
[05:41:30] <fragalot> while drunk
[05:41:55] <fragalot> you may be able to stop at the right time, but that doesn't mean the line you followed was straight in any way
[08:09:27] <waprat> waprat is now known as packrat
[09:35:50] <MattyMatt> my rail arrived. I'm not impressed. It's THK but I'll bet their lightest one, and it's well used
[09:37:39] <MattyMatt> FBW2560R
[09:43:07] <MattyMatt> I'm not impressed. it's low friction and quiet, but I'd get more stiffness with the same money spent on drawer slides
[10:09:50] <herron> what they are mounted on also matters
[10:43:55] <piasdom> hello
[10:45:05] <piasdom> i installed a new video card(rad HD4550) and now i get this error
http://pastebin.com/rvUBjcxj when opening axis
[10:45:27] <piasdom> worked fine yesterday(when i installed card)
[10:52:18] <piasdom> brb
[10:55:50] <piasdom> tried restarting
[12:07:04] <anonimasu> !seen tomp
[12:07:05] <the_wench> last seen in 2010-03-05 05:34:18, saying Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[12:23:10] <piasdom> can someone tell me how to fix this?
http://pastebin.com/70kbubpb can the installing video card disable emc ?
[12:31:39] <piasdom> thanks anyway
[13:00:51] <MattyMatt> the spec say these rails can have up to 0.1mm slop when new :p they aren't intended to be axis rails
[13:01:56] <MattyMatt> oh well, 0.1mm was the original spec for my machine, IIRC
[13:03:03] <MattyMatt> on the grounds that that's the smallest error I can measure anyway, as I have no dial gauge
[13:03:49] <MattyMatt> ah well, we live and learn. ebay is a lucky dip
[13:11:50] <elmo401> elmo401 is now known as elmo40
[13:37:44] <skunkworks> kinda neat (last post)
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/edm-machining/japax-pwr-supply-homemade-wire-feed-205090/
[13:39:43] <SWPadnos> damn. I may have to move back to Burlington
[13:39:48] <SWPadnos> http://burlingtontelecom.net/residential_services/bundles.htm
[13:40:05] <SWPadnos> 20 Mbit symmetric + unlimited phone for $80/month (!)
[13:44:28] <skunkworks> heh
[14:20:20] <elmo40> how accurate is it?
[14:20:33] <elmo40> 20Mbit on whose backbone? bell or rogers?
[14:21:39] <herron> we cannot know
[14:22:07] <elmo40> difficult to find an existing customer to ask
[14:22:18] <elmo40> but we can know what backbone they are on. just ask them.
[14:26:26] <alex_jon1> I get 24/4 Mbit for 17$/month here
[14:28:14] <alex_jon1> alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[14:28:16] <Jymmm> alex_jon1: cable?
[14:28:32] <alex_joni> Jymmm: yeah, but decent service
[14:28:45] <Jymmm> ah
[14:29:01] <alex_joni> I have 12/2 for ~10$ and it works great
[14:29:12] <alex_joni> pushing 1.2-1.3MB/sec on torrents
[14:29:15] <alex_joni> and VPNs
[14:29:39] <Jymmm> and pulling?
[14:30:39] <alex_joni> pulling..
[14:30:46] <alex_joni> not the MB not Mb
[14:31:24] <Jymmm> KB?
[14:32:24] <alex_joni> I meant note the MB not Mbit
[14:32:41] <alex_joni> so it works 12Mbit quite almost all the time
[14:32:59] <alex_joni> bbl
[14:33:02] <Jymmm> I understood, you said you were pushing 1MB, what are you pulling down?
[14:54:17] <JT-Work_> JT-Work_ is now known as JT-Work
[14:57:45] <elmo40> 12/2 for $10????? insanely cheap
[15:01:38] <celeron55> indeed
[15:06:08] <Jymmm> $10 per foot?!
[15:06:37] <elmo40> per Kb :P
[15:06:51] <Jymmm> MB
[15:07:30] <Jymmm> Sorry, I saw 12/2 and was thinking 12ga, 2 conductor, ans at $10/ft you got ripped off!
[15:09:07] <elmo40> understandable
[15:17:51] <Jymmm> A friend just gave me some 50' 12/3 ext cords that actually LOCK to whatever is plugged into them. They have a lil lock lever on them.
[15:18:45] <Jymmm> never saw that before.
[15:19:34] <SWPadnos> do they have a brand name>?
[15:19:36] <SWPadnos> ?
[15:20:00] <Jymmm> Let me look, these were used in stage lighting
[15:20:07] <SWPadnos> cool
[15:25:53] <Jymmm> Electricord (r)
[15:26:17] <Jymmm> and TRU-LINK (tm)
[15:27:28] <Jymmm> 50' 12/3 SJOOW
[15:31:16] <SWPadnos> like this, other than the length and gauge differences?
http://skycraftsurplus.com/images/view.aspx?productId=1590
[15:31:40] <SWPadnos> and black, since it was for stage lighting :)
[15:31:43] <Jymmm> YES! Exactly (but black lever)
[15:31:59] <SWPadnos> how does the lock work?
[15:32:15] <Jymmm> and a bit heavier duty. I dun know, let me look....
[15:32:56] <SWPadnos> yeah, yours will be round and heavy duty, due to the heavier gauge and the SJOOW rating (thick rubber jacket)
[15:34:53] <Jymmm> Ok, the GND has no effect.
[15:36:15] <Jymmm> Both blades do NOT have to be fully inserted for the 'LOCK' to be effective. When you look in the plug, there are no moving parts. But when you plug something in and engage the lever it does GRIP each blade individually.
[15:36:36] <Jymmm> I plugged in only one blade and it locked, did the same for the other and it locked too.
[15:37:18] <SWPadnos> maybe they're pushing something behind the contacts to increase pressure
[15:37:21] <SWPadnos> interesting
[15:37:26] <Jymmm> And it doesn't have to be an identical cord either.
[15:37:37] <Jymmm> where did you find that pic?
[15:37:38] <SWPadnos> yeah, I was wondering about that
[15:37:53] <SWPadnos> if you flip it to the locked position, presumably it's really hard/impossible to plug something in
[15:38:20] <Jymmm> I plugged in an apple adapter and it locked per blade
[15:38:49] <Jymmm> correct
[15:39:18] <Jymmm> It's like it's locking the end 1/4" of the blades
[15:40:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Are you interested in some?
[15:40:32] <SWPadnos> possibly
[15:41:01] <Jymmm> He has a box full, brand new, but I have to drive like 80miles to get them
[15:41:19] <SWPadnos> ouch
[15:41:20] <Jymmm> and they are heavy
[15:41:40] <Jymmm> So, do you want some, I think he'll let them go cheap
[15:42:00] <Jymmm> He's moving VERY soon, so at fast, like NOW
[15:42:28] <Jymmm> Then it'll be 2000 miles
[15:42:34] <SWPadnos> well, if they're cheap (like gas money and shipping costs) then sure :)
[15:42:38] <SWPadnos> oh, closer to me :)
[15:42:49] <Jymmm> Seattle
[15:43:00] <Jymmm> they are heavy. How many do you want?
[15:43:33] <SWPadnos> a few or so
[15:43:48] <Jymmm> I need a number 5? 10? 20?
[15:44:02] <fragalot> 324
[15:44:02] <SWPadnos> oh geez. 5 would probably be fine
[15:44:13] <SWPadnos> any shorter ones?
[15:45:24] <fragalot> * fragalot just ties a knot when plugging in extension cords
[15:45:27] <Jymmm> No, just 50'. Each weights 8lbs
[15:45:50] <Jymmm> That's 40 lbs shipped
[15:46:26] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Shall I put that on your FedEx overnight saturday delivery account?
[15:47:05] <Jymmm> "your total is $1,254,456.23"
[15:47:17] <SWPadnos> let's just get a courier in a private jet
[15:47:26] <SWPadnos> and the jet
[15:47:49] <fragalot> Jymmm: that doesn't include the parts price does it
[15:48:13] <Jymmm> fragalot: that's just the tape, box not included
[15:48:14] <fragalot> total price is more likely 1,254,457.25
[15:48:56] <fragalot> i've had itbefore that I bought 5 cent washer rings and had to pay up 17 euro in shipping
[15:49:00] <fragalot> >.>
[15:51:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'm thinking FedEx ground
[15:51:55] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: you need any lighting ?
[15:52:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:52:43] <Jymmm> I'm serious
[15:52:52] <Jymmm> stage lights, NIB
[15:53:13] <Jymmm> about 8 or more
[15:53:17] <SWPadnos> wow, that would be great
[15:53:20] <Jymmm> no idea on the specs
[15:53:39] <SWPadnos> I'll have to contact a friend, but there's a local theater group that I'm sure would love them
[15:53:57] <SWPadnos> and your friend can even get a tax deduction, since they're a non-profit (I think)
[15:56:17] <SWPadnos> ok, FedEx ground is quite a bit less than UPS
[15:56:23] <SWPadnos> like $40
[15:57:22] <fragalot> usps still owes me 600 usd for an insurance claim >.>
[15:57:26] <fragalot> * fragalot afk
[15:59:10] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, they are the cheapest, and slowest too.
[15:59:24] <Jymmm> 7 days minimum
[15:59:34] <SWPadnos> 5 business days, which is better than the 7-10 business days of UPS
[15:59:48] <Jymmm> I'm very surprised
[16:01:17] <SWPadnos> can you email your friend and see what the lights are? it would be great to get them donated to a place that can use them
[16:04:17] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: He'll get back to me.
[16:04:30] <Jymmm> I think he's still asleep =)
[16:04:45] <Jymmm> mentally that is
[16:05:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:05:12] <SWPadnos> like me before (enough) coffee :)
[16:05:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Are they a 501(c) ?
[16:05:28] <SWPadnos> I think so, but I'm not positive
[16:05:58] <Jymmm> so IM your friend and find out =)
[16:06:10] <SWPadnos> I just left a message for him at work
[16:06:11] <Jymmm> is that who the cords are for too?
[16:06:22] <SWPadnos> his cell phone went for a swim and didn't survive :)
[16:06:32] <Jymmm> denatured alcohol
[16:06:50] <SWPadnos> no, I'd like a few of those, but any others that are available would probably be appreciated by the theater group
[16:07:59] <Jymmm> http://www.bulbamerica.com/AMERICAN-DJ-OPTI-PAR-ETL-898-prod.htm?category_id=399
[16:08:38] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I believe those are them ^^^^^^^^^^^
[16:09:25] <SWPadnos> cool
[16:10:31] <SWPadnos> well, they're non-profit, but I can't tell what type:
http://www.lyrictheatrevt.org/
[16:12:31] <SWPadnos> wow. I didn't remember how many of those shows I did effects for
[16:12:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Hell, I'm non-profit =)
[16:12:49] <SWPadnos> me too, just don't tell anyone :)
[16:12:56] <Jymmm> See, there ya go.
[16:13:38] <Jymmm> He's going to be staying in at a friends unfinished basement, so I'm trying to help him out
[16:14:09] <Jymmm> Need any 19" racks? apx 4-5ft tall
[16:15:36] <elmo40> ooohhh, send here!
[16:16:18] <telmnstr_> I love disco lights
[16:16:26] <telmnstr_> thought I had a line on four Martin Roboscan 1220s
[16:19:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: He has 13 lights, most of them have bulbs too.
[16:21:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: his lenes are smooth and clear
[16:23:39] <SWPadnos> ok. do the lights have all the gel frames and that stuff?
[16:24:38] <tom3p> does he use dmx control, like OLA ? often wondered if hal could do that.
[16:25:34] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: He's going to open some boxes and check. I think he's looking at $20/ea working light including the $45 bulb
[16:26:35] <SWPadnos> tom3p, I'm not sure what's needed to get a PC to physically drive a DMX bus
[16:26:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: no gel frames. I recall they have a protective blow out grill. just incase some put a bulb in and left finger grease on it. No barn doors either.
[16:27:03] <SWPadnos> it's some odd baud rate, and I don't recall what the signaling is (may be like RS-422)
[16:27:13] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, ok
[16:27:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Look EXACTLY like this
http://www.amazon.com/American-DJ-Opti-Par-Light/dp/B0002D4LD2
[16:27:28] <tom3p> http://www.opendmx.net/index.php/Open_Lighting_Architecture
[16:27:59] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: they don't show the grill protector
[16:28:04] <SWPadnos> ok
[16:28:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: He;s going to go plug them in
[16:28:35] <SWPadnos> tom3p, yeah, I looked into DMX a few years back - thought about making a controller for setting lighting values from somewhere other than the board
[16:28:41] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, cool, thanks
[16:29:08] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Is $20/ea reasonable ?
[16:29:29] <SWPadnos> it's a great price, but not the same as a donation :)
[16:29:46] <SWPadnos> I think we'll have to get some sort of approval to buy them, which won't be as fast
[16:30:25] <SWPadnos> apparently Lyric may not be able to take them in any case - they have nowhere to store them :(
[16:30:31] <SWPadnos> maybe Stowe Theater Guild will want them
[16:30:55] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, they better move quick, no red tape crap if they want them
[16:31:24] <SWPadnos> it looks like one or two folks here may be interested in buying them anyway, folks who are involved with the various theater groups
[16:33:00] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, find out how many. He has 13, and is testing them now.
[16:33:09] <SWPadnos> yep, second email sent
[16:33:26] <Jymmm> email?! that shit is slow dude.... IM baby =)
[16:34:05] <SWPadnos> we gots high speed smailz here
[16:34:11] <SWPadnos> emailz, that iz
[16:34:34] <Jymmm> It's betterz haz telepathy gateway!
[16:35:42] <SWPadnos> ok, breakfast time. bbiab
[16:35:47] <Jymmm> k
[17:06:24] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 10 working lights with grill and mounting bracket. 2 working with grill but missing mounting bracket. 1 worked for 10 seconds then the bulb burned out, missing grill and mounting bracket. the grill I think is a gel frame too.
[17:11:17] <telmnstr_> re: PC + DMX, there are lots of USB to DMX-512 dongles. I have the Entec opendmx but I think support for it is going away. I use the freestyler DMX app, which is free
[17:12:19] <SWPadnos> it should be possible to use a standard serial port at a non-standard baud rate (250 kbits/sec)
[17:12:37] <SWPadnos> the start frame could be tricky
[17:15:19] <telmnstr_> this is our hackerspace, and these are the LED bars running via dmx512
[17:15:20] <telmnstr_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ethanotoole/4682817900/sizes/l/
[17:16:06] <SWPadnos> nice. moody :)
[17:16:11] <telmnstr_> yea
[17:16:16] <telmnstr_> they are cheap chinese and failing
[17:16:30] <telmnstr_> gonna have to take them, open them up, and hopefully fix all the segments that are failing
[17:16:35] <telmnstr_> probably resistors getting way too hot
[17:16:44] <telmnstr_> too many projects :-( Started working on my EMC setup last night
[17:16:48] <SWPadnos> and/or LEDs over their current/voltage ratings
[17:16:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:17:02] <telmnstr_> X/Y aren't moving, maybe it's pulsing too fast
[17:18:00] <SWPadnos> how are you trying to move them>
[17:18:02] <SWPadnos> ?
[17:18:16] <telmnstr_> I've got these stepper motor controllers
[17:18:22] <telmnstr_> they were like $15 each
[17:18:27] <telmnstr_> and it uses a surface mount chip
[17:18:39] <telmnstr_> we had tested the controllers and the thing moved with an arduino doing the pulses
[17:18:58] <telmnstr_> but it's not working with lpt1 ... gonna have to sit down and look at it more
[17:19:04] <telmnstr_> it does stutter just a tad bit
[17:19:10] <telmnstr_> I'm trying to run a laser engraver
[17:19:15] <telmnstr_> so it will need X + Y + PWM for the laser
[17:19:26] <elmo40> you have a lazer?
[17:19:38] <telmnstr_> a friend has the one for it, it's a 25 watt co2
[17:20:59] <telmnstr_> It's a really old unit
[17:21:06] <telmnstr_> retrofitting it
[17:23:06] <SWPadnos> you may have step and dir swapped
[17:28:28] <sealive> i there in the world
[17:29:20] <elmo40> sealive:
[17:29:29] <elmo40> how goes the 'top hat' from BP?
[17:29:40] <sealive> not well
[17:29:51] <sealive> the DD2 realesae drill is stock
[17:30:08] <sealive> most of the streams are down
[17:30:14] <elmo40> :/
[17:30:21] <sealive> problems with the satellite
[17:30:56] <elmo40> I bet the local machine shops are busy making/repairing equipment for them
[17:31:14] <sealive> no that is flown in
[17:46:22] <telmnstr_> I thought the oil well issue was fixed?
[17:46:23] <telmnstr_> Not so?
[17:46:29] <telmnstr_> (I don't watch mainstream news much)
[17:46:45] <SWPadnos> har har
[17:47:07] <telmnstr_> * telmnstr_ cnn.com
[17:47:16] <SWPadnos> they apparently have a cap on there that's capturing around half the oil, and they hope it will get more as time goes by
[17:47:26] <telmnstr_> damn
[17:47:34] <SWPadnos> which says nothing about the ~1/2 - 3/4 million barrels of oil already spilled
[17:47:40] <sealive> telmnstr_: ->
http://mms.a1183.l9789249182.c97892.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/1183/97892/v0001/reflector:49182
[17:47:51] <sealive> fixt is not like this look like
[17:47:59] <telmnstr_> I was watching that live feed a few weeks ago
[17:48:10] <telmnstr_> but just saw some piece of equipment
[17:48:32] <telmnstr_> I'm hoping to go to key west to do some scuba diving. Hope it won't require full exposure protection.
[17:49:11] <telmnstr_> damn that's awful
[17:49:20] <telmnstr_> should have nuked it
[17:55:51] <awallin> is that oil in the movie feed being collected? or...
[17:57:00] <sealive> awallin: no thats the spill abaut 30% is collected
[18:10:11] <elmo40> anything better then gdmap?
http://gdmap.sourceforge.net/
[18:13:56] <SWPadnos> http://www.marzocca.net/linux/baobab/
[18:23:20] <frallzor> im using this: unetbootin-windows-471 to get the emc2 live cd on a usb stick, should work like any ubuntu dist?
[18:26:16] <elmo40> *should* and _will_ are two different things... but worth a try ;)
[18:27:52] <frallzor> im pretty sure a dev could give a better answer
[18:29:05] <SWPadnos> it should work to create a bootable USB drive, I can't tell what drivers (if any) are needed on the "target" OS to be able to boot from the frugal install thingie they make in that mode
[18:29:28] <SWPadnos> it is possible to boot the EMC2 liveCD from a USB drive, so that install should work OK
[18:29:36] <frallzor> good =)
[18:42:14] <awallin> elmo40: windirview or Kdirview are similar programs and look like gdmap
[18:42:48] <elmo40> http://gt5.sourceforge.net/
[18:42:52] <elmo40> found something
[18:43:18] <elmo40> or this:
http://dev.yorhel.nl/ncdu
[19:09:47] <frallzor> ahh finally!!
[19:09:51] <frallzor> computer otw
[19:10:27] <frallzor> heh I thought Atoms was a bit... crappy
[19:10:38] <frallzor> but it turns out it will beat my old comps cpu even
[19:11:00] <frallzor> old P4 M at 1.6 ghz or something
[19:14:55] <fragalot> the P4 was horrible
[19:15:10] <fragalot> and tbh, my intel Atom works just fine (Eee 1000)
[19:15:58] <JT-Work> * JT-Work tries to remember what else I installed with VirtualBox to make the mouse easier to use...
[19:20:46] <frallzor> I realize now that I wont be doing a trade down at least :)
[19:26:08] <andypugh> I have seen some excellent latency numbers for Atom boards. And running SMP with ISOLCPUS = 1 is a big help, but only an option on multicore
[19:26:26] <frallzor> oh
[19:26:29] <frallzor> this is multicore
[19:26:47] <frallzor> afaik
[19:27:17] <frallzor> http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=35641 f*ck yeah :)
[19:27:32] <frallzor> what is this SMP and ISOLCPUS = 1
[19:28:48] <SWPadnos> that processor has been discontinued, FYI
[19:29:09] <fragalot> JT-Work: virtualbox tools -- it's in the virtualbox menu bar of your guest OS
[19:29:22] <fragalot> JT-Work: it mounts as a cdrom if you click the install thingy
[19:29:32] <JT-Work> fragalot: thanks
[19:29:45] <andypugh> frallzor: Last section in
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?RealTime
[19:29:52] <JT-Work> too many things flying around on my brain
[19:30:17] <anonimasu> JT-Work: the support pack
[19:30:30] <frallzor> ty andypugh
[19:30:36] <frallzor> will do that when i get my shit going =)
[19:31:06] <anonimasu> JT-Work: that gives you pointer integration so you dont have to swap in and out of the windows all the time with ctrl + left
[19:32:10] <frallzor> * frallzor is happy
[19:55:10] <skunkworks> * skunkworks loves virtualbox
[19:56:22] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.ca/view/7oV1Rq.html
[19:57:09] <morficmobile> JT-Work: guest additions?
[19:57:23] <JT-Work> * JT-Work is beginning to like virtualbox a lot
[19:57:28] <JT-Work> yes
[19:57:48] <skunkworks> the guest drivers worked great for 2000 and xp
[19:57:50] <morficmobile> vb on linux host?
[19:58:05] <JT-Work> I'm upgrading my 8.04 machine on my XP pro machine :)
[19:58:20] <JT-Work> vb on 10.04 at home
[19:58:31] <JT-Work> it's jeplers fault :)
[19:59:43] <morficmobile> i like vb
[20:01:33] <morficmobile> are you using the PUEL version?
[20:02:03] <JT-Work> it says Oracle VM VirtualBox on the top bar
[20:07:50] <morficmobile> D:\tinderbox\win-3.1\src\VBox\Main\MachineImpl.cpp[5838] (Machine::loadSettings). <-- drive letter changed, VB is confused
[20:08:54] <morficmobile> i find the win3.1 dir interesting :P
[20:23:32] <morficmobile> Note: The original 3.2.4 packages (build number 62467) contained a bug in the EFI BIOS. The build number of the fixed packages is 62467. Sorry for the inconveniences! <--- o_O
[20:42:08] <morficmobile> JT-Work: i see, 3.2.4 changed to oracle vb
[20:53:06] <JT-Work> * JT-Work heads to the other shop now
[23:28:39] <JPM_Mill> Cant get the calibration to pop up any thoughts?
[23:32:56] <andypugh> Stepconf configuration?
[23:34:22] <andypugh> There was an issue with an extra space at the end of a hal config string, I vaguely remember. But that might just have been being discussed at the same time as the calibration pop-up, rather than related.
[23:34:27] <pfred1> I noticed I'm not using hardware GL acceleration on my EMC2 machine is it safe to enable?
[23:34:35] <JPM_Mill> Did not yuse it servo setup based off of 7i43 big configuration?
[23:39:49] <andypugh> I can't find anything in the archives from the last few days, but there has been discussion of the issue. (or a similar one)
[23:40:51] <JPM_Mill> I am using 2.4.0 as well
[23:42:38] <andypugh> This is a random idea based on a poorly remembered discussion that I was paying no attention to, and might be a complete red-herring, but look for an extra space at the end of the HM2_7i43 config string.
[23:44:30] <JPM_Mill> Thanks andy
[23:46:45] <SWPadnos> the hm2_7i43 config string has nothing to do with PID tuning/emccalib
[23:47:59] <JPM_Mill> Here is a good one. on my mill right now if i enter f20 g01 x 0, the table will move left to x 0 then when i enter g01 x2 the table will run away never making it to x2
[23:48:48] <JPM_Mill> any command to move in the positive direction causes a run away
[23:50:27] <pfred1> can I run DRI with EMC2?
[23:52:13] <JPM_Mill> SWPadnos: any idea why my calibration screen wont pop up then?
[23:53:25] <jlmjvm> JPM_MiLL:can you post your hal file
[23:53:38] <jlmjvm> i had this prob last week
[23:54:11] <jlmjvm> there was an extra space in the parport line
[23:54:23] <JPM_Mill> http://pastebin.ca/1879383
[23:58:21] <davidf> SWPadnos, hi
[23:59:25] <davidf> learned how to use the HAL Scope, and found the prob with my encoder signal.
[23:59:29] <jlmjvm> JPM_MiLL:you have a different problem than i did