pfred1: You are woman
Jymmm I fixed my messed up motor driver too
Jymmm man what was wrong with it I still can't get over it
Jymmm the IC has 3 grounds 2 for the high side one for the logic and the noise from the high side was messing up the logic side I just rerouted the logic ground and it fixed it
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
hey guys, where can I find the manual of the new tooledit program?
shielding is alwasy a good thing
Jymmm nah it wasn't even that was just chain of order
Jymmm when I hooked up the 3 grounds I put the signal one last and it didn't appreciate that
Jymmm by like a stinking 1/8th of an inch!
Jymmm like i said I still can't get over that it made such a dramatic difference
noise lil bugger it seems
all PWM stepper motor drivers are
its a good thing no one listens to radio anymore
well not AM anyway
I don't think anyone speaks english here anymore on the AM band I think its some sort of new regulation or something
we have our public radio on AM, kinda sucks I'm right on the fringe for reception in my car
found out though that plugging in a USB charger makes my radio reception much worse
its the cable that does it
not the charger itself
I met Janis Joplin's old manager and he was making these devices called Sound Senders for car radios
they sort of looked like car chargers
his big line was, "I made a million, and I spent it too!"
what did they do?
Valen they managed janis Joplin for one
i meant Sound Senders
Valen oh you plugged them into say a walkman then into that and yo ucould pick it up on yoru car radio
Valen so it in effect made your car's wiring into a local antenna
ahh those things
I like the ones you can just plug a usb stick full of mp3's into
this was years ago
i hacked the car radio so i can plug in my treo 650 cell phone to play recorded bbc programs, and my ipaq to read text files from gutenberg
I want to build a car computer into my dash
so i can listen to podcasts and the like easily
tom3p when all you really needed was a Sound Sender!
or a 29 cent jack
tom3p I think his whole business model was based on the simple fact that most cars don't have that 29 cent jack
I was going to hack one of those into mine ;->
tom3p by the looks of his beat to death jag I'm not so sure things were going all that well for him really
its just a rcvr and and amp, use the amp (heh i'm moving my hack from the now dead 91 honda wagon to the 87 honda wagon... no jaguar fer me :P
tom3p his had more the memory of paint than an actual paint job
hey All, in this example : http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sec:G1:-Linear-Motion
the subroutine states : O100 sub (subroutine to move to machine home)
Shouldn't that be : O100 sub (subroutine to move to touchoff position)
sorry, this is the right link : http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#r3_1
I'm not really looking forward to ever finishing my mahcine and actually having to use it I don't think
G Code doesn't look all that fun to me really
pfred1: it's not that bad really, specially if you have a proper CAM program
ries yeah so far I'm not really seeing one of those
ries they all seem to run on Windows to me
pfred1: for most simple 2D stuff I use dxf2gcode
circles and lines and such
ries I'll have to give it a look when I get that far along
Don't expect anything to run on Linux very well, however there is heekscad for 3D that is progressing quite nice
pfred1: but, it all depends what sort of work you are doing...
ries I see no applications for 3D stuff for me
ries really all i want is just a plotter to lay down resist for PCBs I design
you mean, you don't know any 3D apps, or you only work in 2D?
ries I mean I have no use for 3D
Eagle CAD has a working gcode generator (third party)
ries I'd like something that could just draw like from a PDF or something
I think there is also a hpgl to gcode tool (open source) if you need something that looks like a pen plotter
ries that would be perfect!
ries most I'd ever want to do would be 2D relief carving maybe someday
if you are handy with software you could create a printer driver in cups that passes the hpgl from your CAD to gcode and sends that to emc
I can easily see myself becomming handy
but like i said I'm not looking forward to the software aspect of this project nearly as much as I have been with the hardware side of it all
[01:51:31] <ries> http://www.gnu.org/software/hp2xx/hp2xx.html
I've looked at a lot of CNC projects and while i see a lot of people building machines I don't see nearly so many doing much with them once they're built
just something I've noticed in my research
ries thanks for the link copied here
though i do see lots of people on like their third machine build and whatnot
pfred1: you see a lot of hobbiest blogging and stuff, the professionals make then but don't blog about it ;)
well.. I think it's like that
well I'm firmly in the hobbyest camp here
I build one woodworking rooter, and using it.. it's a solid build, when turned on it works... not fiddling around with wires and stuff, I hate that!
I'm just doing this because there's nothing I like to watch on TV
I am also a hobbiest, but I think/hope with a pro method ow thinking...
see its the electronics thats my favorite part
I kept that portion as simple as possible ;)
I like to make machines too but I don't know whith theis CNC yet I'm sure I'll have some fabbing fun with it
but mostly I'm expecting it to be a fiddling annoyance
this is my machine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BYY1KDiFZY
(it has a new router now)
if you build a good CNC router (mill type) then it's a good way up making more stuff with it
how many IPM?
I think in mm :D
we tried metric here it didn't go over too big
I never really tested it... but I think I tried 20000mm/minute once
machine speeds are always IPM, like penis sizes :)
it lasted until we all had to go to the gas pumps to fill up our cars
no one liked billing 25 gallon tanks in liters I'm afraid ;)
MattyMatt: hehehe I measure that in feet actually...
that's when you know you've gone metric, when you measure your dick in cm
that must have been on 1975?
the USA went metric for about a week and a half
I read that we went metric officially in 1890-odd
MattyMatt until someone else manages to get there it still is 250,000 miles to the Moon
we've started buying petrol in litres, but that's only cos we can't afford a whole gallon these days
is that nautical or statute?
MattyMatt its not kilometers thats for sure!
can't be nautical with that little bit of watter between the eurth and the moon
MattyMatt when we destroy other countries we do it by clicks though
funnily enough nasa is 100% metric
and they still managed to get to the moon, imagine that
DaViruz tell it to the guy who programmed the mars lander
no i think i will
err, no i don't think i will
that mars orbiter that crashed was a conversion from NM to km, when it should have been Statute to km, or vice versa
so it wasn't metrication that caused the crash, it was the choice of types of mile
ever since i got some digital calipers I've been using metric a little more when it works
being as all I have to do is hit a button and it spits out metric for me
USNavy do all their part in NM, of course
MattyMatt: NM as in nautical miles?
MattyMatt they don't even range guns in metric?
NM actually make a lot of sense in navigation (on earth)
not so much anywhere else
no more than metric
yeah being as the entire metric system is based on a flawwed measurement of the Earth
I couldn't never understand why there are 12 inches in a foot, while even in the US everybody counts till tell
they are both diameters of the Earth. metric around the poles, NM around the equator
MattyMatt but the metric measurement is wrong
so is the NM
MattyMatt but I don't boat
but by less probably :)
wrong how so?
DaViruz they just got it wrong
the accepted standard is 1852m
DaViruz they said it was one thing turns out it was another
which is more accurate than the size of the earth
ah, so NM are metricated too now? :)
the nautical mile is defined as one arcminute at the earth periphery
DaViruz but by the time they found out it was wrong it was too late to change things so they just went with it
and what would this flawed value be?
DaViruz, is it tho? what if the earth gets bigger? does the NM still change?
whatever it is they call a meter today
which i think they use some wavelength of light to determine now
rubidium laser, isn't it?
its a bout eleventybillion wavelengths of a paticular red laser
well, the definition is arbitrary anyway
it doesn't really matter if it's off as long as it's consistant
thats why its done that way, its easy to replicate, all metric measurements other than the kg are based on that kind of measurement,
they are attempting to redefine the kg as a finite number of atoms of platinum, instead of the arbitrary lump in Paris
the kg still has a "master kg"
in any event standard measurements evolved over a long period of time in order to fit human needs
MattyMatt, its silicon they are using
metric is great for science i suppose but even then maybe it'd pay if more people thought a bit more
metric is great for everybody who isn't american ;-P
Valen well that'd make it the #2 standard then now wouldn't it?
lol, cant half tell where your from
imperial is more beautiful
MattyMatt it took hundreds of years to refine
your getting metricised anyway, all the cars etc that you import are metric
a house built in feet still looks better than a metric one
yeah and metric hardware is for the birds good thing cars are disposable today
and your aeroplanes
you know all the important stuff ;->
I don't think anyone uses nanoinches
very metric well kinda
if its not a 63 split windowvetter or maybe an AC CObera then its not all that important to me really
they are probably full of angstroms
angstrom = 0.1nm
I wonder if gull winged Mervedes are metric?
my norge keyb is broke
about the only foreign car I like
(it's a little easier to write on a swedish keyboard)
I can't even type a pound sign atm :)
thats the highest insult imagineable ;)
ah, A-with-a-o N'Gstrom was swedish? not korean?
ångström was swedish and so am i, and we don't particularly like the norwegians ;)
I know my Volvo is all standard hardware
is it a volvo amazon circa 1966? i believe that was the last volvo to use imperial fasteners
(at least here)
yes it is a 1966 P1800S
though i have owned up to 1974 Volvos and they were mixes
mostly standards with a few metric pieces of crap thrown in here and there to keep it interesting I suppose
but thats why us ignorant Americans invented Vise Grips I suppose!
I broke down and bought a metric set of tools
us Americans think metric was a plot designed by tool manufacturers to make you buy more tools
when that ran its course they released torx and some other whacky fastening systems
i like torx, but i don't like the arbitrary sizing system
DaViruz I like the fact that i have sets of tools to deal with them now its easier than slotting them
both sets of sizes gives you handy inbetweens. you don't need to buy specific weird drill sizes for tapped holes so often
when i removed the infrared filter in my camera i found a screw that had a torx head, about half the size of a T5
a T 2.5 ?
never found one though
I'd hazard a guess that about 90% of Torx is T5
I have one, in a massive set of hex bits
just like 90% of metric hardware has a 10mm head on it too
i don't think the size numbers correspond to physical dimensions though
a T40 is way more then 4 times a T10
it took me years of flea marketing to finally lay my hands on a 10mm combination wrench
reminds me of AWG and similar wacky stuff
where someone pretty much pulled some numbers out of his ass
if you research wire guage it does make sense how they did it
not to me it doesn't
its a cross section of circles
has to do with wire carrying ampacity
if you're buying wire to carry electricity then it makes a lot of sense
i know that it (inversely) corresponds to cross sectional area
but it's still pretty much arbitrary
i mean, have a look at the formula for converting between awg and square inch
"In 1957, the easy release lever was added to the pliers"
[02:31:28] <DaViruz> http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/1/f/01f2a8866588007b257186f3fb14878d.png
holy crap! :)
aha, that's the bit that makes a Mole Wrench british
DaViruz I guess before that you just smacked them with a hammer if you ever wanted to get them off?
or welded them into the Liberty Ship, according to this :)
oh dear, we clamped 4000 locking pliers into our ship and now we have no means to get them off
MattyMatt must have been the ones that didn't split in half during a passage
I got one with this arc welder. I'd never use one on a nut, of course :)
except in emergencies
like when said nut has rusted down to an indetermninate size?
like, it emerges I don't have the right spanner
trust me there's tons of times when vise grip is THE size
what size is it? it's Vise Grip size!
anymore i try to keep the grips i burn separate fro mthe ones i don't but its hard you know?
once i tried to count all of my vise grips I lost count at 33 pairs
it would need one more lever for a stepper to open and close it, I think
more kept turning up here and there
have you got all the fancy welding jaw shapes?
most of them yeah
including a 24 SP
most bizarre vise grips I think i have is special hose clamping pair
made to put crimps onto welding hoses
it's probably part of a welder's apprentice's training these days, making your own custom vise grips
yeah I brazed nuts onto the swivel pads of my 24s
so I can put bolts in them and have more throat
though its rare they don't have enough throat to do a job
as a robot hand, I suppose hydraulic would be the only sensible way to drive it
with a geared stepper for the adjuster maybe
hydraulic is self adjusting
MattyMatt hydraulic is very shall I say fluid in that respect ;)
the geometry of the wrench changes
i love my self adjusting vise grips
there is an adjustment screw but it adjusts clamping force and not clamping width
sometimes when i lock grips on you can play a tune on them they're so tight
he shoulda called them Crab Hands
I have knock offs but nothing beats the real thing
In 2008, the original Vise-Grip manufacturing plant in Dewitt, Nebraska, closed when the parent company moved production to China.
all my grips are pre 2000
I donno some get mightly abused
the poor little needle nosed they take it the worst
I broke the ones I got from Tandy
always doing stuff with them I know i shouldn't
but that is sad vise grips are made in china now
I'll know not to ever buy any new ones
ah it's all made with our steel still :)
our = "Western"
I'm trying not to encourage the chinese any more than I absolutely have to
for some stuff I don't seem to have a choice today
like shoes i mean just try not to buy imported shoes its impossible!
I mean you can but be real
I can't go dig ditches in $400 footwear
who wants to pay US shoemaker's rates? :)
though my red wings are some mean boots
free market is cool. it encourages us to innovate and automate, while their labour costs creep up to match ours
people say the days of cheap chinese goods are over now
though their quality is still as low as it ever has been
I think the quality has got better in the last few years, it's as good as the last crappy british made stuff now
I stopped getting their stuff a number of years ago now so I don't know what it is lately
the british stuff got bad at the end. 100 year old equipment & designs
I try to buy used
1970s british manufacturing commited suicide
I just got a metal cased b&D polisher here I still need to refurbish
and this afternoon I cleaned up and clated a 5" USA C clamp I bought for 50 cents at a flea market
can the chinese compete with 50 cents?
if you want 4 the same
they come close
maybe 4 2" ones that bend when you tighten them
I want one of those japanese saws, or I want to mod a straight bladed one into one
but i got so much crap now I don't really need anything anymore
so I can randomly purchase nice stuff used when i find it
yeah I wish I had a permanent home. I always lose stuff when moving
tools in transit = ooh look, free tools
I moved a couple of years ago and it took me like 4 years to move all of my crap
next time i move I will sell it all I think
or just heavily insure and flip a match int othe mess
not putting down roots there then?
I don't think I'll stay where I'm at now forever no
I can well see when markets change selling and going somewhere else
I could stand to make a tidy sum
4 houses on the land would fetch a better total
only in very special circumstances do they even let you build one other
someone has to be sick in the family and you're caring for them or some crap
they are the people keeping me homeless
well if it wasn't like that this place would be one huge trailer park
next time I have money, I'm buying an acre of farming land, and I'll squat on it
live in a trailer or sth
better than living @ momma's :)
so I'm sort of glad for the rule it keeps my property values high
yep, the landowning classes :)
they forget they are a minority, sometimes
land is the only thing really worth buying
everything else is so much junk
everything else burns
or breaks, if it's a graphite crucible
I made my crucible out of a cut off oxidizer cylinder
I only do aluminum though
iron drainpipe works too, I read
heck I saw one kid he used a paint can
he said it worked for a melt too
though it did eventually burn out for him
I want to get back to casting but I've been so consumed by this CNC nonsense lately
I just want ot get it done is all
buying the chinese board saved tons of time
buying some software would get me going now too :)
well I started this project a long time ago and a big part of it was making the electronics
that's where I waste all my time
turns out I started like 10 years ago
/action just bought a PMDX122 and gecko's ...
though I put it aside for other things
I only started last september, and the machine mills, so I haven't done too badly
ries your machine looks like it cost you some money
I wasn't in for teh cheap....true
3.8K my wife calculated one day..
thats not bad
the one guy here blew like 9 grand on similar
considering teh state it is in and how it works I think it's a good deal
yeah it looks to run well
though again all I've seen you make is the SMC demo logo on it :)
I would hate to see a machine like this (or any machine) fail because of electronics are bad
see that woudn't bother me because i can fix electronics
I did buy cheap stepper motors (50usd each) and racks/pinions came from japan...
japanese stuff is top notch
pfred1: I can fix electronics to, I just don't have teh tools here to build a good stepper motor driver
well what I'm making now is no geckos but i can save that for an upgrade down the road
making better motor drivers that is
when I think if it.... the 4 gecko's I bough consume 25% of teh machine's price :s... I could have gone cheaper with chineese drivers...
TB6560 isn't too shabby
ah the voltage limit is really a performance hold back
in my limited experience
I hear they can't evne withstand 32 volts
ries how much did those drivers cost you?
that reminds me, gotta order a 24V supply
MattyMatt not all stepepr stuff plays nice nice with switching power supplies
I would have got 36V if they'd had one, but the next one up is 48V :)
pfred1: don't remember, the 25% (might be a bit less) was including import costs into Ecuador
unfortunatly I am blessed with corrupted customs
MattyMatt I don't think TB6560s can handle 36 volts
pfred1: I run the gecko's at 60VDC and the steppers are set to 4Amp
they claim to be able, but 24V is about my speed. I'm going in oincrements while I lean
pfred1: I think the 203v where 120usd each, I bought 4 and paid 200usd (I think) import over them
MattyMatt no they claim a max of 40 but that includes genrated back EMF
* MattyMatt is bacon pig?
ries yeah I'm just doing this for something to do so I can't really justify that sort of spending here
If I get lucky with a fat 50Hz transformer, I'll get it, obviously
MattyMatt my motors while rated at 2 amps and I've set my drivers up for that don't really consume all that much
MattyMatt more like an amp a piece
and the faster you driver a stepper the less power it consumes too!
which is why steppers all conk out eventually
they just don't draw enough to keep on running
pfred1: no matter, it's always good fun... I made my first pen plotter 18 years ago and made all electronics myself..
18 years ago must have been after i made my breadboard computer
it never did much cept light up 7 segment LEDs
I've got a choice of 3 materials in this script. Wood, Metal and Plastic
somebody else can make a database for more :)
for me metal is ferrous and non
this I don't understand : http://www.hexkeycnc.com/buynow.html
a baby mill that can mill plastic for 2.2K USD :
I've personally machined some woods that had a bit more to them than most aluminums do
pfred1: did teh same with a Z80 CPU... all hand coded on a little keyboard...
ries oh thats easy everybody loves money
yes mine was Z-80 based as well
nice time it was.. writing assembly.......
thk slides. that probably counts as a precision machine
\action dreams about the good old times
only good thing about it was I was a lot younger then
* ries forget's about the right action forward slashes :D
I never saw the point in the Z80 io chips though. the DMA etc
in the end that is basically what my "computer" was was a Z-80 weith data latcheso n it
I was resistant to pre-emptive multitasking for years. I made a RTOS on Z80 and then on M68K
thats all it really boiled down to
I can see that now but at the time it seemed more involved
hooking up dram to a bus is still poorly understood by 5V guys
you got to control the flow
I used static
I made my own eeprom programmer for the bios too
I had the circuit diagram for the TRS-80 model 1. that helped
I couldn't deal with hand stepping 100 times through code to burn a regular eprom
I got a chinese eprom programmer a few months back on ebay :) when I was thinking of using printer boards intact
be back later guys
I always wanted one, but I haven't plugged it in yet
being as i had no computer I don't think a plug in programmer would have done me much good at the time
the softy was nice. it had a keypad and its own cpu&ram
the latest incarnation of that is still standard in UK industry, at several hundred gbp
thats why I like to build electronics I can make stuff I'd never spend the money on
well that and I just like doing it
yeah, the wave of chinese makes it hard to compete in most areas tho
well my motor drivers cost me $10 a piece but they do take me a while to make
but it's getting worthwhile again now you can get fpga etc
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
and from what I've heard about the chinese boards not all of them are all that swift
they seem to vary in reliability and durability
naturally, that's mass production
well I think some are different designs
my spindle had a dry joint. that was sold to me by a british company
my drivers I set my parameters and I think i met them
"think of it as a kit of parts" like that article about chinese lathes says :)
well I bought parts cheaper
yeah it gets very worthwhile when you make 25
the TB6560s themselves are only $4.73 a piece
then the next most expensive part i used was the opto they were like 50 cents a piece
some of the other junk i had lying around
like if i had to buy the isolation strips I'd have been sunk but i have a couple packs of them
my optos are in sockets. that seems a bit unnecessary
no it makes sense if you blow one easy to change
you don't solder light bulbs into your sockets do you?
only a short to the board could do that
I don't put LEDs in sockets
even then people don't solder them in
I have to stock up on light bulbs
I hear they're goingto try phasingthem out here
I prefer CFL
not me I don't like the light
I should try 100W of CFL
its OK for area lighthing but not work lighting
that's 9 of the bulbs I use
on the ceiling in my garage i have 4 twin 8 footers
which translates into 600 watts of fluro
you can literally tan in here when i flip it on
you can convert those to HF, which doubles their efficiency
and makes the light much nicer IMO
they all have the electronic ballasts
well I still need to do one
but the ahole flipper i bought this place off of put the crappiest of the crap into the rest and I've changed them all out
costs me like $60 a fixture when i do it
bulbs and ballast
nicest part is they come right on even i nthe cold
no warmup period
but really i mean come on how green is running 600 watts of lights?
yeah i could grow dope in here to pay the lite bill i suppose
600W is one bulb, for that :)
they use the metal haldite or whtever its called right?
like street lights
2 kinds usually
2 types together gives the best spectrum
yeah sodium vapour, like the not-so-yellow street lights
last fixture i opted for cheaper bulbs because they had higher output but I don't like them they're a different spectrum than all the other bulbs i used
next one i do I'm going back to the more expensive ones they're not that much more
couple of bucks
they're super harsh
you only need a sliver of harsh, to see through a gap
a surface plate could have a light slit built in
well I learned my lesson being cheap
I was at the store looking at all the bulbs going hey these are brighter and cheaper
not thinking they were going to be so much harsher too
spread them around. put one in each unit, so it makes a pattern
nah I'm running all matched bulbs
suposed to be better for the ballasts least thats what the ballast instructions said
when i do them I'm up for new bulbs
but like i said by the time i finish a fixture its about $60
mill more mendels
then I rarely even turn the things on its a bit much really
that's my plan for $
its not the money its just crazy when i turn the things on its like bright as noon time
I should really add switches so I can turn them on and off in banks now its all or nothing
that's good sometimes
brighter where you're standing
IR dtectors :)
I hung some double 4s and I use those
really only one of them
that and i love arm lites
it's the 21st century. voice operate it
you know those lamps on the pantograph arms?
I must have a dozen of them scattered around I turn one on wherever I'm at
and in those i like incandescant bulbs
a voice operated anglepoise. now that'd be handy
put it under the car and say "left a bit, right a bit"
right...blender script....coffee first
I'm just fiddling with the GUI so far
I've made all the panels rollup, so I can add new ones ad infinitum now
no scrollbar yet so, ad bottom screenum for now
I'm glad you're looking forward to the software side :) I started this to get away from writing software
I'm just not good with software I'm a nuts and bolts sorta a guy I guess
its just the part of the project I can see myself having the most troubles with
morficcell is now known as morficmobile
Moonshine Lubricants Inc http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-PINTS-SPINDLE-AND-WAY-OIL-LATHE-MILLING-MACHINE-/220604490776
ah, it's named Mobil stuff, he didn't brew it up himself :)
and it isn't chainsaw oil
bar oil works for me
and i always got a quart laying around too so ...
and its a heck of al ot cheaper than that is too
I think bar oil is like $2 a quart
ries_ is now known as ries
and all :)
this blender script uses G41 as appropriate now \o/
I haven't set up the tools properly in emc yet obviously. it had no effect
D1 might help
MattyMatt;in blender, you have to have a 3d drawing? i import a dxf and nothing has a thickness
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
piasdom, that's the impoter probably, there are others. none read every kind of DXF
salut , hi
I just milled my first chunk out of my vice \o/ also my first metal
it nearly turned ugly. 3mm deep at woodcutting speeds
Just have a little question about EMC2. Is that easy to configure this software with an USB-home-made interface ?
RLV mostly no
mostly ? nice step :-)
they don't allow the fine-grained real time control that emc uses
I plan to use an USB controleur with a micro CPU
onboard (avr mega for example)
And I juste wonder if EMC2 will be able to send commands throught USB
emc2 is not what you want then. your micro cpu would do the job
emc2 is all about using the PC as the microcontroller
Okay, so I'll have to use the uCPU Onborad to read the G-Code and execute it
thx for the answer
that would be best
you could hack something that emulates a printer port
Yeah, but what will be the plus-value ?
except you could use it on a PC with no parport
I guess I'll have a really bad latency with this kind of bridge
that's the problem
what you want is emc2 ported to atmega
which I guess is difficult
For basic commands like linear and circular interpolation, it's not really a problem
but I think EMC2 make a little more than controlling the motors
not a great deal more than that. the GUI is a separate program
so if you had the motor controller running on ATMega, using the same protocol, you could use the Axis gui prog
if GUI is made with python and Tcl/TK, won't be a big problem to get the protocol.
Ok I'll see what I can do. Thank you very much for the answer.
Before I had a little idea of what I wanted to do... Now I'm really lost :-)
I'm on the right way so.
My baby call me. Thx again and C U.
ok, good luck
ello boys with expensive toys
frallzor: who are you talking to LOL
ya all! :P
for varying definitions of expensive
id call cnc an expensive toy no matter what the cost is =)
what do you guys think of this for running 10.04 on http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101092
a bit overkill? :P but working
JT-Dev: I'm not a big fan of non-standard hardware
e.g. PSU fails
* frallzor is milling a nature scene in cherry wood
I got my cnc pc due to psu fail \o/ I shoehorned a standard one in
alex_joni: me neither
isn't a cnc machine the last one that needs to be small & quiet?
looks like AM3 is the most popular AMD socket atm
which reminds me, I'm not using my noisy one yet
yeah AM3 takes all the AM2 chips too
I got amd last 2 times. bang per buck
2 core was plenty for me last time, and it paid off in quietness
dang there are 20 Asus mobo's without onboard video to choose from
anything I need to look out for?
im so impressed with this nature scene! =D
I wouldn't worry about that. onboard video is a godsend sometimes. you can always turn it off IME
it'd be nice to consult a latency table of known onboard vid chipsets before choosing one tho
nforce chipset of course gives you a reliable one
this 780G I had trouble getting a driver working with it has ati hd3200
and beware of cheap end asus boards. they are not the reliable brand they were
probably all of them are Asrock standard now
iow, not very good
I've got a bit of a dog myself
[12:19:12] <JT-Dev> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131647
a comment Other Thoughts: My system: AMD 955BE, G. Skill 4GB Ripjaws, ASUS EN9800GTX Video, Ubuntu 10.04 OS. BTW Ubuntu users, everything works out-of-the-box.
including ps2 keyb & mouse. nice to have
yeah that's a well stacked board
only 1 ether is a bit stingy these days
* frallzor would like a pc-less system
you need more smarts in the machine then :)
what do you mean MattyMatt ?
hide the PC in the machine
pretty hard :P
atom in the leg
another hour or so and my job in the machine should be done
how big is the scene?
JT-Dev: usb3.0 on that asus is cool
is that the new standard?
turned out smaller than expected height wise, 650x80
but the length is all I could get =)
room for a 2nd one too now
maybe use as a test to show carptenters what I can do to pickup customers
yeah I need some test pieces
I love vector art 3d machinist
got the nice features of aspire
still just for use with purshased models though
[12:29:18] <JT-Dev> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103674
JT-Dev: yeah, new standard, not many devices.. but good to have for the future
the biostar mobo in the combo deal is like a new version of mine
[12:36:07] <MattyMatt> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103702
this chip gives you 4 cores for 95W
2.7Ghz v 3.2 for the 955
that's a fair chunk of speed difference
$55 difference in price
that would clinch it for me :)
* JT-Dev heads off to the shower
talk to you later
hmm what to treat the wood with when done...
would like a darker tone
anyone speak dutch? =)
[12:50:37] <frallzor> http://www.damencnc.com/tools/man/Automatische%20gereedschapsmeting%20met%20USBCNC.pdf
or nm, page 2, does it seem like that toolsetter just closes a circuit and should work with emc2 with just probe pin?
is Onnn IF/ELSE/etc EMC specific?
frallzor: why all the holes in that 'part box' ?
atmega: a lot of controls have conditionals, loops, and subroutines, but each one has a different syntax for them.
since a shart corner wont fint flush in a radius
any idea what software this guy is using? never seen it before: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcj3d0_jante-bois-debut-finition-fraise-de_tech
could be mach3 customized
when you moves to the cnc machine you can time the lag in the camera to audio (not much) but then he turns to the software and you see it lag SO MUCH! the tool path on the screen to the sound is out. silly non-real time windows ;)
looks like that job is going to take ages at that speed
very slow travel
actually i don't see it cutting at all
I heard it cut
the very first pass is a cut
you can hear the tool deflection since it is spinning too slow for the depth of cut
MattyMatt: I ordered the cpu you linked to as the other one was not on the supported list at Asus lol
I'm trying to mock up some code using KMotionCNC which is supposed to be EMC based, but it doesn't like the conditionals
this lead in stuff for g41/g42 just stumps me at times
how is that?
non-gpl software that says "emc based" is surely based on the old public domain pre-emc2 code
might be gpl, it says 'with source'
did you see jt's new docs for using cutter comp?
hi, how do i setup the default direction for homing?
don't know, I could use some good docs... url?
cpresser: change the sign of the home speed
ty, I will read this first an then try again... :)
I think what I had originally for lead-in would work in EMC, but this KCNC simulator errors on acute angles, etc
accepting concave corners was new for emc2.3
I was trying to write a generic routine for cutting inside/outside panels using rounded rectangles
but, I just did one for inside, one for outside
i guess my configuration is okay now... next question would be: after I touch off the tool on my material how do I set this point a new zero for my coordinates?
"Cutter gouging with cutter radius comp"
hit the 'touch off' button
mmh...where is that button located?
on the manual tab
i am using the 'axis-gui'
um, it's right there...
ah nice... i am just a little blind :)
atmega: I think that error used to mean the entry move is too short. but that particular error is no longer in emc.
found it now. is there a way to touch off all axis at once?
this is coming from a Z only move
scooter motor anyone? they claim 5.5Hp ! http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-other-2002-Handcap-Scooter-3-wheel-W0QQAdIdZ202927789
atmega: Z only is an invalid entry move (first move after g41/g42)
heh, I had this working before, then I added a Z up front to be safe.
atmega: for entry, you need to move in XY, at least a cutter radius
I did... now I'm back to the concave corner
f*ck yeah, all done
[14:24:12] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/KxJqEGgEC/
har to shoot, but better than nothing =)
* herron hand frallzor some linseed oil
it has come out well
frallzor: what did you use to generate the code?
the modell is bought, so I used the freebieversion of aspires machinist
frallzor: that's pretty neat
its bloody awesome, Im sooo getting aspire
when I can afford it =)
$2k seems pretty pricey
I'd like to try vcarve pro
shitload cheaper than artcam
and imo it sucks
which one sucks?
and its waaay more pricey
cut2d looks like it would make what I'm trying to do trivial
when looking at my work I can tell leveling the table paid of
anyone know a dxf to gcode software that works with turboCAD? (free/buy)
perfect meet of all cuts
piasdom: have you looked at cam.py?
Rickta59; i will look now thanks(never heard of 'em)
[14:32:36] <Rickta59> http://fab.cba.mit.edu/about/fab/dist/cam.py
* i've never tried it though : )
actually I popped in here to see if anyone has used skeinforge with emc?
this simulator doesn't seem to actually show tool compensation
if you're going to cut using emc, you should use emc in sim mode for simulation. it's not like getting another copy is that expensive.
no linux here
* cpresser is working with "vcarve pro". its not that expensive and has a lots of vector editing-tools
buy me a copy?
atmega, get vmware or similar and run Linux in a VM
sim doesn't need a realtime kernel, and runs very nicely in a VM
heh... vmware is ungodly painful on this box
well, you've been meaning to upgrade the hardware for some time ... :)
I'm at work.
you've been meaning to have your company upgrade the hardware for some time ...
but, I don't seem to be doing much work at the moment.
on my 'new' celeron
you obviously need a faster PC, to improve productivity
heh... I'm going to end up with a bump from the entry move, just like the doc says
it does show cutter compensation, if you actually turn it on.
in theory, this will cut a glove box type panel with a space for a flush mounted GPS/Fishfinder
anyone do machine service from USA into CA? I just swapped plate registration from car A to car B and got call to repair in CA. but my VIN wont match for 2 weeks :( any workarounds?
tom3p, rent a car
and/or bring the form(s) and proof of payment to the border with you, so you can show them to the agents if they ask
SWPadnos, i just got the ok to rent :) good thinkin
just make sure you don't have a stray .22 bullet rolling around the floor :)
thanks for the help earlier,. and thanks for this great piece of software :)
i got my first test-item milled: http://ca.rstenpresser.de/~cpresser/tmp/pictures/20100514_emc2_milling.jpg
neat! looks good.
the machine itself has a good hardware... however so far I used the original-software which is really crap :)
_dont_ ever try to use iprocam :P
cpresser: what did you generate the paths for the letters with?
JT-Work: this was the example-file shipped with the emc-live-cd :)
I should have known that lol
but for productive stuff I use v-carve-pro
[16:33:04] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/PlHSbkqYX/
colored and waiting to dry so I can wax it :)
you must have a big router.
well that part isnt that big =)
frallzor: nice work dude!
what'd you generate the gcode with?
the company that made the modell I bough makes software too, used a freebieversion of their machining part
im pretty satisfied with it ries =)
frallzor: how long did it take and what bit did you use?
6mm end mill and 3mm ball end mill
I still need to order my bits :s
frallzor: looking good
I have an odd problem with AXIS. Or perhaps it isn't odd and is "normal"... When I am in manual control in AXIS, and select clockwise and then push + to command a speed the spindle runs fine. If I then click Stop, the spindle brakes but the commanded speed stay at whatever it was before the brake (I can see this in a side PYVCP panel I have). So then when I click on clockwise again, the spindle begins to spin up to the previously commanded speed but immed
dried of the paint a little, sweet result now, just need drying for waxing now =)
* tlab had an interview with Mazak today
eric_unterhausen is now known as EricKeller
yahoo down for others?
nm - working now
morfic- is now known as morfic
frallzor, how much for the art?
and how many legs does a reindeer have again?
* MattyMatt scribbles
I think it depends on how much time the reindeer spend feeding around spent nuclear fuel...
good plan (me draws reactor in background, discharging into lake)
I've got a couple of scrap cars and bikes sticking out, so you can tell it's a lake
don't forget a couple of shopping carts sticking out of the muck
I think I might have found a bug in version 2.4 regarding soft limits? Anyone else seeing some odd behaviour?
and a floater
and a crocodile feeding frenzy
It appears that softlimits may be looking at something other than machine position.. when I change work offsets the soft limits seem to change
I need to do more testing ... but something seems wrong ..
Dave911: are you talking about the behavior of the "run anyway?" prompt in AXIS, or something else?
the soft limits have me confused as well... but that don't take much
I've definitely seen that appear when the program will actually run
That is what pops up .... but I am getting a soft limit alarm when loading a program that is clearly not outside of the limits ..
It won't let me run ...
even when you say to run anyway?
The workaround was to defeat the soft limits by expanding them
I get that when I foul up the offsets and forget to do something
Yes .. even when I say run anyway .. Micges said there is an issue with the run anyways thing the other day ....
ok then it's something other than what I have seen, please continue troubleshooting
But it looks like softlimits might be broken ... like it is following the work offsets and not sticking to the machine position
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't chasing something that is already a known bug ...
if you can narrow it down some more, maybe we can figure out what is wrong.
I can do more testing here in my office - without the machine - this should be fairly easy to verify ..
OK... I'll keep chasing it ... hopefully it is operator error ... ;-)
It sounds exactly like the trouble I get until I've homed & touched off properly
that's my guess so far :-)
but I always guess that first!
Always a good possibility .. :-)
I'll let you know ...
I had my limits set so all positive values of Y were invalid
that cramped my style somewhat
MattyMatt: are you running a lathe or was this a mill or ?
So what did you have to do with the soft limits?
Z is usually in a negative space, X and Y are usually in a positive space .. correct ?
I think I set them to -600,600 or anything that worked
OK, so you basically opened them up so it worked .. you defeated them all together ...
Does Enco ever have a 'free shipping' promotion, or am I mis-remembering?
yeah but I'm fairly certain it's operator error, and it's emc 2.3
In my case it might be operator error but I worked on it for an hour last night on the machine and I couldn't make any sense of it ... I will try and verify on a motion simulator in my office
I don't mind workarounds until I get home & limit switches
Enco does once in a while ... Enco and MSC are one in the same now I think I get email adverts from MSC about every two days now..
For some reason I don't get Enco email adds??
I'm sure they'd be glad to send you some, if you ask. :-)
speaking offsets, I had the same issue a few days ago
that Dave911 described
emc saying outside limits when clearly not
I think tool offsets confuse the AXIS "run anyway?" prompt. BUT if you click run anyway the program WILL run. Dave is reporting something else, which I have not seen.
mine didnt run either
ok, we really need a simple way to reproduce it then.
frallzor.. are you on release version 2.4 also ?
started to move and stopped at the error saying something about joints
yes and no
but same issue on both for me
tried both 2.3 and 2.4
ok, we really need a simple way to reproduce it then.
the issue only occured when my Code wanted 0,0,0 at irl 260,0,0
so I moved the tool, offset at set position
then it happens
but never when 0,0,0 really is 0,0,0
it will do it every time for me if I touch off the G54 Z offset on the material without doing a G43 after loading my tool... and it is correct in not letting me run
frallzor: Are you saying that if your work offsets G54,G55 etc are different than the machine coordinates you have a problem ?
I think so
JT-Work: lucky for you, sounds like
JT-Work .... that makes sense... but I have a g43 after each tool change .... T6 M6 G43 etc
but only for XY
Z works fine
Interesting ... I didn't have any issues with Z either, it tripped on X.
it happens when I set up a job, I do a t1m6 in the MDI then dial it up to the Z0 of the material then do a Z touch off for G54 but forgot to do a G43 in the MDI window
then it thinks it has a 13" Z offset LOL
in the program I to a T1M6 then a G43 so tool offset and the g54 get added together and I'm outside of my limits then
I don't do it as often any more... after running into the spindle :/
JT-Work .... why should the G43 matter in that situation. If you are not outside the soft limits in machine coords a G43 should not matter ....
I thought soft limits only monitored calculated machine position (absolute... )
If I don't load the tool offset before doing the material offset I get the wrong offset
then the machine absolute position in my file is now outside of my soft limits
.... now I don't understand why the offsets should affect the soft limits .. that is my issue ... no matter what I have on the screen for G54,G55,G56 etc... as long as the machine absolute positions are not going outside of the soft limits I should get no errors ...
if the offsets put your machine outside of the soft limits you should get an error
I disagree ...
if the offsets make it so your gcode will move the machine past its limits you should get an error
I agree with that ..
I can make any of your gcode programs error, and rightfully so, by programming (for instance) G92 X111111 Y222222
I thought that was what I said lol
that's why I want an example
it's very easy to get confused
But if you machine is stationary .. within machine limits ... you should be able to do a touch off at that spot and say you are at X1000 and not violate any soft limits
it's very easy to not see quite what's going on
Dave911: yes, until you run gcode that has a G0 X0 in it
I agree ....
But say you like big numbers .... ;-)
And you like to machine around X111111 and Y222222 within .5 inches ... that should not be a problem .. right ??
OK ... that was just a sanity check for myself .... :-)
if you're making a ruler a mile long on your bridgeport, and you're at the end of it, you might touch off X=63350" and then make the last ten marks
I think we are all on the same page ... so I will try and duplicate what I saw last night and if I can I will come up with a simply sequence to prove it .. or admit the dreaded operator error ... ;-)
frallzor: I speak dutch
* Jymmm speaks typo!
too late =P
just wax oiled the scene
its turning out awesome
how much did you pay for the art? do you want to say?
not that bad imo
I suppose that's OK
but when I get aspire, if I get it, i can make stuff like that on my own =)
building a catalog for customers could be expensive
[18:53:14] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/dWrybFTiU/
Asked earlier, but got no response so I thought I'd ask again... Anyone have any idea on this issue? I have an odd problem with AXIS. Or perhaps it isn't odd and is "normal"... When I am in manual control in AXIS, and select clockwise and then push + to command a speed the spindle runs fine. If I then click Stop, the spindle brakes but the commanded speed stay at whatever it was before the brake (I can see this in a side PYVCP panel I have). So then when
grommit: what emc version?
I would think that clicking Stop or Brake would cause the spindle to be commanded to zero as well...
me too, let me check it
I don't know... in g-code - you can have a spindle speed Sxxxx and turn the spindle on and off without the s word changing..
yes, and that seems to work fine
which is sort of what the spindle buttons are doing..
It seems like the commanded speed (using + or - buttons) is "disconnected" from the Stop (and Brake) buttons.
on 2.4 when I click on spindle stop then start it starts at the lowest speed no matter what speed I had bumped it up to with the + button
Hmm, I wonder if something was changed (fixed) in 2.4?
If you up the speed, and click stop and then click the CW button again, it stays at 0?
it starts back at the slowest speed... like 10 rpm or something I'm not near the machine atm
I think the start speed is 1 rpm
grommit: at 2.3.5 there is same behaviour as in 2.4
it's so slow it goes backward lol
Mine goes back to the slowest speed (1 rpm), but only after ramping down from the last commanded speed. That is a no biggie if the last commanded speed was slow, but if it was fast (say 3000rpm) then it spins up and spins down immediately.
I need to set the offset a bit better
commanded with Snnn?
no, commanded with the + button
Let me try it with S (after starting by manual control)
it spins up and then immediately down to 1rpm.
I am watching spindle-speed on my AXIS display (via the pyvcp panel) and i can see that the speed is still sitting at the last speed even after I hit Stop.
grommit: Is spindle-enable on?
You mean after I select Stop?
let me look....
After I select Stop, spindle-enable goes to FALSE.
I assume that spindle-forwards and spindle-backwards also probably go false.
Does your spindle actually stop?
Yes, the spindle stops fine.
It is then when I click on CW again that it spins up before spinning down
OK, I thought you were saying that it was stopped by the brake and the brake and motor then sat there arguing.
Mine doesn't do that.
(the spin up and down)
Do you have closed-loop spindle speed?
There is no encoder on the spindle
There goes that idea. You can get wierd things with the PWM running to full negative
So, you are saying that motion.spindle-speed-out doesn't go to zero when you press the "stop" button on the left half of the screen?
I was just looking at those signals.
spindle-vel-cmd goes to zero when I hit stop
However, spindle-vel-fb does now
I am guessing that spindle-vel-cmd is a signal name?
I wonder if because it is not zero when i then click CW EMC thinks it needs to spin down
Yes, spindle-vel-cmd is a signal
Possibly, as you are wiring a feedback with no feedback
Post your hal?
(Or have you already done that and I missed it?)
It seems odd to have a -fb signal defined with no encoder.
hal file at http://pastebin.com/ca6wwYan
spindle vel fb is driven from the stepgen vel output, which will not go directly to 0 if there is an accel limit on the stepgen
which there is
you mean maxaccel=2000?
Is it a stepper-spindle then?
frequency -> voltage converter
no stepper spindle, but a step pulse is driving a 0-10vdc varying voltage to motor controller
so should I remove the maxaccel parameter or set it to 0?
I _think_ that the Hostmot2 steppgen might hold it's value when disabled rather than go to zero.
I wonder if this is related?
[19:46:19] <andypugh> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commit;h=da68626985f92af1eb2be3177f28240f63e835b6
Try commenting out the the spindle feedback lines in HAL, after all you don't actually have any feedback
hmm, sounds like what might be happening
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-05-14.txt
wow two loggers!
yeah. logger_emc was running when they changed hosts, so now we can't get to it to stop it :)
ries_ is now known as ries
Commenting out the lines with spindle-vel-fb in them didn't change anything...
feedback is irrelevant to the commanded speed and how that is handled (in this case)
your spindle has some max acceleration, which is what maxaccel should be set for
so is there any way to solve this?
does the DC-06 have an acceleration ramp setting?
or the VFD
There is definitely a way to solve it, but we need to pin down what the "it" is exactly.
the KBPB-125 has a pot for setting Accel and Decel
if there are accel settings on either the DC-06 or VFD (preferred), then you can set the stepgen maxaccel to 0, which will disable stepgen accleration
oh, let me try that
that should prevent the ramp you're seeing
there may still be a bug(let) in the HM2 stepgens in velocity mode, but that should fix your immediate problem
If there is such a bug, one solution would be to unwire the stepgen enable from motion.spindle.on, so that the stepgen remains active and winds down when asked.
plus a mux with 0 and spindle-cmd fed into it, selected by spindle-on
setting macaccel to 0 did it!
SWPadnos: I was wondering about a MUX like that, but also wondering if using a direct enable signal to the drive might be better.
Currently spindle-on only goes to the stepgen enable, which seems a bit fragile.
the mux is simply to insure that the commanded speed is 0 when the spindle is off, since it isn't always (as skunkworks pointed out)
2.4 halui: new pins such as home-all ,I see unhome but not home all
I got one more about halui is the halui.program.step pin ment to act like the Gui's step when pressed while the programs is running it goes to steping in the program?
like in AXIS, home all only shows up if you have a homing sequence
cradek: I can't duplicate what I saw last night on my machine .... forget what I said... must have been operator error again.. :-( Work offset, G43, and soft limits all seem to be working properly .... at least on the X axis where I was having problems Everything is perfectly predictable spinning motors on my bench.
I probably have some bad Gcode file that was spit out of my cam software that tripped the soft limits... I need to tweak the cam post anyway .. so I'll have to figure out that issue. There were several hundred lines of Gcode so it is probably buried in there some place. But that is not an EMC2 issue .... :-)
Dave911: thanks for letting me know, hope you find it
I'm sure I will.. :-) I need to setup my simulator here the same as my lathe so I can find some of this stuff before I load it into the machine ...
If I want to try touchy and dont have the needed start stop etc etc as proper buttons, could one use hal to just bind them to my gamepad pendant? =)
I didn't realize it, but the Axis display of the soft limits can be confusing as they don't move with the offsets .... They stay around the machine center .. I guess dynamically changing the soft limit display on the Axis preview screen might be very difficult though...
Funny, but the more I work with CNC machines the less I value the preview displays, especially if the cam software is working properly..
goodie, then I could actually make a proper usb pendant of it and use touchy permanent =)
Dave911: it's tough, because you don't want to think of the program moving when you change tool lengths, but the tool length does affect what part of the program you can reach.
frallzor: you need a wheel, though
nah, this way works fine =)
using the gamepad pendant as in the wiki
Dave911: so showing the program and machine extents in the same preview is pretty much impossible
works like a charm
cradek: Yep.. I can see the problem with doing that
I wish my machine was as stable as EMC2 .... last night my spindle drive started faulting ... I think I need to do some motor maintenance.. I think the brushes are shot .. fortunately I have a spare set that came with the machine ..
Older CNC machines are like older cars... there is always something that should be looked at or fixed or .....
"well that doesn't sound right at all, but I guess it's still working"
cradek will the gamepad pendant enabled via hal still work with touchy?
Does Touchy export the same halui pins as Axis?
frallzor: I have no idea how you have it set up
AXIS doesn't have halui pins; halui is a separate UI that you can run if you want.
that works with touchy too then?
[20:37:33] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui_touchy.html#r1_1_1
touchy needs the listed controlling signals on its hal pins. you can get them from whatever you want.
I'm not sure how much sense it would make to run halui and touchy together, but you definitely could.
if yo are using a gamepad pendant as I am I would see it makes sense =) I have no real mpg so I could use this then
you need a wheel for touchy. otherwise you can't run half of it.
what more than jog is the wheel used for then?
overrides and speeds
anywhere a kind
anywhere a mouse gui would have a slider, touchy uses the wheel
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
Actually, that's not a bad idea at all. Since TOUCHY is so dependant upon a wheel, using a simple usb mouse with scroll wheel would be perfect.
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
for the lead-in with G41, does it have to be in the direction of the first cut to let it compensate?
it has to be such that it can clear everything before hitting the first point.
I don't think so
p.s. figuring that stuff out sucks.
not figuring it out sucks lol
I wonder if straight-up works?
my leadin is a plunge atm, so it doesn't work
not for x y
it needs the first direction to know where to start
it must be an x or y move longer than the radius of the tool or at least equal to the radius
in G17 anyway
MattyMatt: you can turn on compensation with any straight move, but you still have to be careful how to get in and out of the work if you don't want to leave a divot (see docs for a good picture of this)
see my video for a good picture of offsets lol
I can imagine. so I need to move to outside the outline to begin
an arc that enters the work tangentially is always a safe way, as is entering at an outside corner concavely (is that a word?)
I've noticed that programmers make up their own words as they go along :)
dunno, my script doesn't handle arcs properly yet
JT-Work: yep, if we can't find one that exists already
There is a great tale that begins "A long time ago, when the word "software" still sounded funny....
I know what vaporware is, what's wetware?
Jymmm: same thing as meatware
Wetware is what you do your between-the-ears processing with
Ok, what's meatware?
thinking/calculating machinery made of meat
Ah, Like vegge-matic, but operator-matic, IT SLICES, IT DICES....
Here it is: Anyone who has worked with low-capability hardware at the bit level will get this (I am looking especially at Mat here): http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/mel.html
I only got my first eprom programmer this year
It was a long time before I understood that remark. Since Mel knew the numerical value of every operation code, and assigned his own drum addresses, every instruction he wrote could also be considered a numerical constant. He could pick up an earlier "add" instruction, say, and multiply by it, if it had the right numeric value. His code was not easy for someone else to modify.
what does it mean when windows xp seems to run faster in a virtual machine on lucid than a normal install?
skunkworks: you probably drink too much in addition to using windows too much
skunkworks: you pay too much attention to windoz
speaking of windows, one should tru mach3 maybe.... hmmm
Circuit design guides say that PCB tracks for 240V should be 5mm apart. The device pins are 2.54mm apart. Tricky.
it boots in about 5 seconds
Boots or reloads the state?
andypugh: had the same issue with the irf gate driver ic's
skunkworks: Guess what this is? It's an IRF gate driver...
I thought - they must know... ;)
One of these, in fact. http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5469721364857131746
what if it's in an SMD package :P 1.27mm
that doesn't seem right...
I complained that RS had sent me the wrong part (true) and that it had gone bang (true). I never claimed cause and effect. The technical chap sent me a replacement correct part, and so did the customer services lady.
skunkworks: windows xp installs with the dumb IDE drivers, in virtual mode it does not hurt, this is why it's faster when virtual :)
I still have no idea what blew that driver up. it is meant to have shoot-through protection in the internal logic.
skunkworks: ever notice how much more fun it is to format 40GB on a virtual disk compared to a real disk when installing XP?
I give it 20GB, and expect it to be grateful/
i was just commenting on the format time itself
I'm not a real programmer. I like source debuggers too much
i hear when i go back to work on Tuesday our (to be) retrofit MoriSeiki will be in its place, if we strip it quick, we can send its ball screws together with those from our mill
yes - (I acutallly went with 10gb... just to play around - but it formated in about 2 seconds) ;)
I should run XP in VM, just for VS
my VS is way behind, don't want to find out what it would cost to get it current
MattyMatt: Source code is for wimps!
and then when I find a good VS/PSDK/DXSDK combo, put that on my lappy
this is using virtualbox... other than the usb not working and pulling out my hair - then giving up - the next time I booted the laptop - the usb worked.
VS express does nearly everything now
no asm tho
express = free
all the free ones are subtly hobbled tho
I have been coding EMC using network drives and Xcode. It worked a lot better than coding stood up on a concrete floor with a stainless steel keyboard.
nothing on linux debugs like VS does, or like TC++ or RHIDE did in DOS
is this just not right? ;) http://imagebin.ca/img/H8Kyr3sZ.png
I have never used VS, but I have done a _lot_ of VBA coding in Excel, and that IDE is actually quite nice (much as I hate to say it). The code-completion makes navigating a huge object library a lot nicer than it would otherwise be,
* skunkworks still does quite a bit in vba
VB4 is the best marriage of language, gui and editor I've ever seen
Using Xcode on the Mac to code for a remote Linux machine does pretty much preclude any breakpoint style debugging. VBA breakpoints are incredible, but then is is interpreted.
part of the reason I am putting xp on this machine... so I can install access97 :)
I still have VB4 on my 386
If anyone ever tells me they want to learn OO programming I point them at Excel VBA. Because you have no choice but to be OO, everything you want to work with is an object, or a sub-object of an object. (And the level of access you have to them is surprising, you really can delete all the menus from Excel..)
yeah Excel is neat
OOo Darw wasn't as good as Visio, iirc
I dunno tho, it's pretty good
I tried bit-bashing the P-port a few years ago (I would have used EMC for the job now) to synthesise a crank sensor signal for a test rig. Matlab managed 6Hz. Excel VBA managed 10kHz. I was astonished.
Inkscape gets first billing as a free vector editor
I bet it was Win98
unless you got that special DLL with the signed driver
It was that DLL, and I am pretty sure that was the difference. (inpout32.dll ?)
sth like that
in theory, emc2 could use that
that'd give Mach 3 sth to worry about
I am using that as we speak.. using the printer port to flash a light for a pull system - through an access database.
PCW, are ye there?
is ndisgtk included in the dist on the live cd?
8.04 that is
Yep somewhat here (being Friday and all)
This might be a bit technical for a friday.
In your SoftDMC manual you suggest that B+C- will put the motor to a known state. I am trying to figure out what known state. Is that conventional motor 0 degrees?
0 degrees electrical degrees phase not sure this has _any_ relationship to motor manufacturers reality however
(like index or resolver0 or hall codes)
Initially I am trying to convert motor resolver position to hall signals to trapezoidal PWM. Once I have that working and understand it I am looking to move it off the Arduino into HAL and then into a sinusoidal function generator for the 3PPWM
It might be telling that one document I have been reading basically says "try all 6 hall signal permutations, and find the one that works, being careful of the 2 that almost work.
On my motors B+C- can be resolver zero (one of the 4 possible ones)
Yes even with sinusoiidal drive I think there are 8 combinations (with only one working)
other ones are lumpy or run away ISTR
(which I think is meaningful, as it is a 6-pole motor so the 3 possible B+C- positions will only match one of the 4 resolver zeros)
I hope to get a sinusoidal driver module for the 3PPWM done this weekend. Then we can start testng.
some resolvers have one electrical rotation for one motor 3 phase electrical rotation, some are 1 turn per electrical turn
Yes, the driver needs to capture that.
My motor are three electrical per one mechanical and one resolver.
Resolver is one electrical/mechanical?
I assume all that matters to a driver is the ratio between encoder/resolver and elctrical?
No, one resolver turn is one mechanical turn, which is three electrical
right, thats all (and the motor phase vs resolver 0)
Yes, I intend having that as a parameter. Later iterations might get to do a learn cycle, but that is getting rather technical.
6 pole is sort of odd... We've got lots of 4 pole motors here, and i've seen some 12 for low speed (think step motor)
I might be confusing myself. It is three electrical revs per physical rev.
Isn't there already some of the Park/Clark stuff as HAL comps?
There is, but it looks less useful than I had hoped.
No Park, 2 Clarks and an inverse Clarke
the 2 inverse transforms should do what you need for a voltage mode drive
Rather than wire all of them together in HAL with some as-yet-unwritten trigonometry I think it might as well all be in one "motor controller" comp
And a full house will do complete FOC (assuming you can read 2 phase currents)
I rather like the parceled out way both a s a teaching tool and for flexibility but cant argue with someone actually writing code...
The invclark wants x and y components, getting those from an encoder position is non-trivial in itself as HAL doesn't seem to have sine and cosine components.
invclark get its X,Y from invpark
By the time you have wired the components together in HAL it will be confusing even to the guy who wired it, let alone anyone trying to learn
inpark takes UVW, where does the actual motor position from the encoder get fed in?
(sorry, by "inpark" I meant "InvClark"
And, in fact, let me check, I am suddenly struck by self-doubt.
Clark2 convers (a,b) to (x,y) by computing c.
I think (as well as possible on Friday afternoon) that inverse park takes D and Q and converts its to 2 phase
and inverse Clarke convert that to 3 phase
Clark3 converts (a,b,c) to (x,y) + homopolar component
And invclark converts (x,y) to (a,b,c).
I am not clever enough to see how any of a,b,c,x,y is easily deduced from encoder counts.
Though perhaps you can do the required 90 degree shift by swapping X and Y (with perhaps a negation)
No shift is needed (its done by summing the sines/cosines)
sines/cosines of your rotor position (in the transforms)
I think I am missing something very major here.
We seem to have transforms in HAL between 2-phase and 3-phase systems. But our input data is an angle. (or a single number that can be made into an angle)
Classic FOC works like this:
Clarke for 3 phase to 2 phase
Park for derotate (resolve into D/Q D - pull towards stator, Q- pull at 90 degress = torque)
InvPark for re-rotate to 2 phase
InvCLarke for conversion of 2 phase back to 3
We have no Park. (that I have spotted)
Dont need Park for voltage mode only
All of the transforms seem trivial, too. So trivial that I am not sure much is gained by computing them explicitly.
Well sometimes you might want to do slight different things (like eliminate invClarke and use space vector instead of sinusoidal
Given an encoder or resolver position, I am so far not seeing how that single number can be usefully used by the Clarke or inverse Clarke transforms.
here a nice description http://focus.ti.com.cn/cn/lit/an/bpra073/bpra073.pdf
the encoder justs give the theta to all transforms
That's the issue, none of the transforms wants a theta
Gots to have a theta
That's my issue, I want to use theta, the transforms don't
If you don't know where you are, where are you?
So I end up writing a sin/cos comp to comute (x,y) from theta/torque to pass to an invclark comp that does 2 lines of trivial arithmetic and hands me back an (a,b,c)
well your sin/cos comp is inv park!
Which is yet to be written...
I am probably being unclear. What I am saying is that I don't think that the existing invclark and clark components in HAL help all that much. They contain two lines of code that it will take 6 lines of HAL to connect.
And we still need a Park transform to convert theta/torque to the 2-phase input that is required.
OK I just like stringing beads...
I think we might as well have a single component that takes theta and torque as inputs and passes out A,B,C amplitudes.
You dont need Park for voltage mode. only inv Park
Clark and Park are needed if you do full FOC and measure the phase currents
I am also considering another comp that takes Hall1,2,3 and torque and passes out A,B,C amplitudes.
Well, that is a whole other question. The driver supports the acquisition trigger, do we have hardware to use it?
notice that its really voltage, not torque you have control of (unless you implement the full enchilada)
No but I will add a ACQ trigger in to the SPI module
So all we need now is the SPI driver?
For Full FOC, yes
Seb said he was going to do it but "not this spring or summer". I don't want to tread on toes, but it looks complex but straightforward.
Complexity is in supporting multiple devices, Another possibility is to use a fixed purpose hardware to present the A-D data
to the driver is a simple way (like the way the resolver interface and SSerial interface work (all gnarly details hidden)
SPI is pin-addressed isn't it? So multiple devices is just defining the individual enable pins as GPIO and handling the per-instance data?
One possibility would be an extension of the raw read/raw write kludge to a multiple read/write driver
that could interface to arbitrary hardware (all per device complexity put in a HAL comp)
(Each SPI channel can take it's defined enable line as a parameter, probably simpler than allocating pins at load-time)
There are 2 different SPI interfaces (SSPI and BSPI), SSPI is for one device/ SPI channel use and BSPI is for multiple device/SPI channel use
Google is doing badly with BSPI
Is it the case that all devices will still work with a "Oi! You over there!" line and the three comms lines?
It occurs to me that we could support two completely different SPI driver paradigms, in much the same way as we support 3 or 4 different user interfaces.
Now this is confusing:
[23:47:18] <andypugh> http://www.onewire.com/p_522-BSPI-Analyst.aspx
onewire and BSPI, but _nothing_ to do with inter-device communications.
I2C has that