#emc | Logs for 2010-05-06

[00:06:22] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[00:12:31] <andypugh> cradek was talking about a Hardinge slant-bed
[00:24:54] <Guest14662> Guest14662 is now known as apostrophe
[00:59:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ping
[00:59:20] <SWPadnos> aye
[00:59:38] <pfred1> Jymmm hey man I'm famous now I'm on YouTube!
[01:00:02] <Jymmm> pfred1: FBI's Ten Most Wanted list is now on video?
[01:00:14] <pfred1> Jymmm I'm not popular
[01:00:42] <pfred1> Jymmm if there was a 10 least wanted i might have a shot at that list
[01:01:14] <pfred1> Jymmm but check me out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU2GaSMPxNI
[01:03:08] <pfred1> Jymmm that's my hand!
[01:04:25] <pfred1> Jymmm I'm not in the sequel but I think the special effects are better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbeyNNBZ68
[01:08:50] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh2AWswAMvw&feature=related
[01:10:11] <pfred1> skunkworks my one driver with inductive current sense resistors makes hella noise!
[01:11:40] <pfred1> skunkworks but whenever I'm screwing around and start to think that I'm wasting my time I'll always have this video to think about so thank you
[01:14:08] <ries> Hey All, where can I find all all pins available in emc?
[01:15:08] <andypugh> What, every one, or just the ones in your setup?
[01:15:51] <Jymmm> pfred1: cool =)
[01:16:18] <pfred1> Jymmm not as cool as mario bros but hey its my first videos thanks
[01:16:30] <ries> andypugh: I see things like 'iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in' and I think it's there to control emc, but I wonder if there is a list of all available...
[01:16:37] <andypugh> For the ones available in your setup, but a line "show all" in your HAL file just after the loadrt lines (or type "halcmd show all " in a terminal window once EMC is loaded, if it loads)
[01:16:49] <Jymmm> pfred1: Dude, Donkey Kong is da bomb!
[01:17:51] <ries> andypugh: cool... going to try that
[01:18:02] <pfred1> man you sure know when your print job is up in this sucker! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMbyhYSbMG0&feature=related
[01:18:19] <andypugh> ries: Wait, that only lists them all, no indication of function.
[01:19:13] <Jymmm> pfred1: Dig that cool wallpaneling!
[01:19:14] <ries> andypugh: I found this also : http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/config/emc2hal/index.html
[01:19:15] <andypugh> ries: If you want to find out what a pin does, I generally go to www.linuxcnc.org and paste the pin name into the search box on the left of the front page
[01:20:00] <ries> andypugh: that's the google search box?
[01:20:05] <andypugh> Aye
[01:20:11] <pfred1> Jymmm I love when he lifts the lid and runs it again
[01:20:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_emc2hal.html
[01:21:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: for future reference: goto google.com in the search box enter: "<whatever you are searchign for> site:linuxcnc.org"
[01:22:00] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.google.com/search?q=halpins+site%3Alinuxcnc.org
[01:22:07] <andypugh> ries: Don't forget all these handy pins you can have if you add halui to the ini file:
[01:22:08] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_halui.html
[01:22:09] <pfred1> Jymmm but what if you just want a list?
[01:22:09] <ries> Jymmm: google search brings up some sampel configs (for me at least) but not to the right docs
[01:22:34] <pfred1> if you don't even know what to look for
[01:23:05] <ries> andypugh: THAT was what I was looking for... learning classic ladder on my desktop... I want to make external start/stop buttons on my machine this weekend
[01:23:51] <andypugh> Glad to be of service. And goodnight.
[01:43:16] <morfic> cradek: you kept mentioning i can fully map the ballscrew on an axis, does this mean different backlash adjustments in different areas of the ball screw (say more in center where it is run more often than the outside), the threads that talk about it seem to turn to interferometers quickly, which makes me wonder if it's really possible or if i misunderstood how "mapping" is meant
[01:44:40] <morfic> so it does not seem totally random, i spent a good part of my morning to try to fix backlash on our fanuc controlled mill, just to give up and move the chuck to a "more evenly worn" spot, so "mapping" suddenly seemed better than it already had
[01:55:04] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Screw_Compensation
[01:56:39] <morfic> ah, thanks, excellent
[02:10:14] <ries> How can I insert 'something' in teh current rung, whenever I press add or inserts, it starts to create a new one?
[02:18:03] <morfic> skunkworks: thanks, i skipped right past COMP_FILE= in the .ini instructions, where it explains the triplets used in the file
[02:20:48] <cradek> ries: edit?
[02:21:31] <cradek> select the rung you want to edit (it turns color on the edges) and then edit, then click in the palette the thing you want, and click to place it
[02:21:49] <ries> cradek: no matter what I try, it keeps making a new rung.... might be that it has something to do with X11 though... I run Debian in parallels and load up axis through X11 on OSX
[02:22:48] <cradek> probably you are doing it wrong - the CL editor works pretty oddly if you're not used to it
[02:22:55] <cradek> (well even if you are)
[02:27:57] <ries> this is what happens : http://screencast.com/t/NDA2M2VmND
[02:29:57] <cradek> click modify
[02:30:02] <cradek> -- not add
[02:30:51] <ries> ahhhhh.. let me try that
[02:31:18] <ries> yup works... I thought was modify for components only...
[02:31:44] <cradek> sorry, without looking I thought it was 'edit' instead of 'modify'
[02:31:54] <ries> np....
[02:32:16] <ries> that simple stuff I was fooling around with, that can be done with just hal, right?
[02:32:57] <Valen> morfic, your machines have backlash? (ie its noticable?)
[02:33:21] <cradek> often you can do something with ladder OR discrete hal components
[02:33:27] <cradek> some people find one or the other easier
[02:33:54] <ries> cradek: is there a advantage in terms of resource usage between one over the other?
[02:34:24] <cradek> I don't know
[02:52:08] <morfic> Valen: yes, noticable based on tolerances
[02:53:26] <Valen> morfic: thats no fun
[02:53:34] <Valen> we are battling some lash on ours at the moment
[02:53:56] <Valen> looks like between the screw and the slide the mount is bending
[02:54:33] <Valen> its an issue with the linear scales because it makes the motor overrun as it accelerates through the backlash then makes the whole thing twang
[02:54:56] <Valen> if bracing it up doesn't fix it we'll need to put an encoder on the motor for velocity feedback
[02:55:03] <morfic> where the chuck was mounted, left most edge on table, the ball screw was not worn as much and the backlash was over compensating, so i dialed it down, out of curiosity i checked it maybe 3" further to center of table and i was off already again, by 4th axis chuck the one from before a week ago was right, in center i am back to what we adjusted it a week ago, where i started thinking "didn't someone say ballscrew mapping?"
[02:55:59] <morfic> Valen: this is all just good old wear on the ball screw, the servos with encoders are straight on the ballscrew, no slop in between
[02:56:00] <Valen> if its just slop on the ballscrew you should be able to fix that with another ballnut and some washers
[02:56:19] <Valen> Belville washers that is
[02:57:05] <Valen> thats what our anti-backlash setup is, we didn't use the oversized ball method (I didn't trust the chinese version of "anti-backlash" ballnuts)
[02:57:29] <Valen> on X and Y it works fine, backlash if present must be less than .001mm
[02:57:29] <morfic> something to look at when they pull it apart, see if we can future proof it
[02:57:57] <Valen> if its apart I'd look at sticking linear scales on if its convenient, might get you an accuracy boost
[02:58:07] <Valen> (though that setup is my baby ;->)
[02:58:31] <morfic> was funny today, instead of changing my position to move the dial to 0, i just changed to .0001/click and instead of lining up it went .0015" past 0 :/
[03:00:29] <morfic> Y on one lathe was off .029 (rotated/crashed turret), got them to fix that before running a bigger, expensive job on it
[03:01:32] <Valen> sounds odd
[03:01:34] <morfic> can't wait for them to find an old lathe to retrofit (the super slant on the list is a little too small for what we wanted i guess, i like the 3rd axis on it though)
[03:01:46] <Valen> anyway I'm off to go do stuff ;->
[03:02:01] <Valen> retrofit from manual to CnC or from old CnC to new?
[03:02:10] <morfic> turret is rotated up, it's not off, it's the direction it moves when you run a tool in the chuck
[03:03:10] <morfic> old CNC to new, just find metal basically, fix it up with new ballscrews, new servos, emc2, repaint, fire it up, run (yes, i am intentionally omitting the initial setup woes :> )
[03:03:26] <morfic> anyway, you said you had stuff to do, and i should get going too :)
[03:03:57] <Valen> if you can do a simple one first so you can use an existing setup it should be pretty easy
[03:04:07] <Valen> ours worked pretty much out of the box
[03:04:32] <Valen> I think the only problem I had was an enable line or something was missing from a config file, but that's been fixed now
[07:46:57] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[07:52:07] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[09:02:11] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[09:20:22] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[09:22:06] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[09:45:31] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[11:05:20] <MattyMatt> good afternoon piasdom
[12:36:17] <ries> hey all, is it possible to add a second ladder using as line like this? loadusr -w classicladder --nogui MyLadder.clp
[12:54:42] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[12:55:00] <frallzor> yo, alex_joni around? =)
[12:55:21] <alex_joni> yup
[12:55:37] <frallzor> did the little test with pressing button and doing halcmd now
[12:55:53] <alex_joni> gotta do the halcmd while the button is pressed
[12:55:58] <frallzor> did
[12:56:01] <alex_joni> so we can see what the value for max tilt is
[12:56:07] <frallzor> -1
[12:56:16] <alex_joni> ok, so it goes +1/-1
[12:56:19] <frallzor> yup
[12:56:23] <alex_joni> you probably want to scale that
[12:57:33] <frallzor> scale how?
[12:57:41] <Jymmm> ...brown cow
[12:58:03] <alex_joni> try changing from whatever to analog
[12:58:07] <alex_joni> and see if the value changes
[12:59:19] <alex_joni> hmm.. nope, my memory isn't as good as it used to be
[12:59:28] <alex_joni> -1 .. 0 .. 1 is the range expected by halui
[13:01:16] <frallzor> no difference no
[13:01:46] <alex_joni> frallzor: there's something missing
[13:02:18] <frallzor> according to that wikipage there shouldnt be anything missing that I know of
[13:02:26] <alex_joni> a connection from axisui.jog.x to halui.joint.0.select
[13:02:39] <alex_joni> likewise from axisui.jog.y to halui.joint.1.select
[13:02:45] <alex_joni> and for z to .2.select
[13:02:49] <frallzor> hmm
[13:02:53] <frallzor> what does that do?
[13:04:13] <frallzor> axisui.jog-y etc those are new to me
[13:04:14] <alex_joni> tells halui which axis is active for jogging
[13:04:21] <alex_joni> those are pins from AXIS
[13:04:49] <frallzor> net joy-x-jog halui.jog.0.analog <= input.0.abs-x-position
[13:04:54] <frallzor> isnt that what this does?
[13:05:16] <alex_joni> hmm..
[13:05:33] <alex_joni> you're probably right, for analog jogging it shouldn't be needed
[13:05:40] <alex_joni> frallzor: only one more thing I can think to try
[13:05:51] <alex_joni> set DEBUG to 0xffffff in your ini file
[13:06:08] <alex_joni> then run emc2 from the terminal (go to the dir, just like for halcmd and type 'emc')
[13:06:59] <frallzor> it loaded up the screen where you select profiles
[13:24:31] <frallzor> might aswell try another guide I found using a different approach =)
[13:26:23] <alex_joni> nope, this should work
[13:26:34] <alex_joni> frallzor: select your config and run it
[13:29:05] <frallzor> done
[13:38:40] <frallzor> hmm this isnt working well.... I need to get another comp out by the machine I think so I can do it on site
[13:51:35] <frallzor> time to see if my lappie works!
[13:52:26] <gweepprefect> not exactly machining related, but it is metal-related... my frustration of the day: http://www.tangentaudio.com/?p=303
[13:53:05] <frallzor> http://softsolder.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/logitech-dual-action-gamepad-as-emc2-pendant/ look at this way alex_joni see any ups or downs compared to the wiki?
[13:54:09] <awallin_> why oh why isn't there something that draws the block diagram automagically from the HAL files...
[13:57:02] <bricofoy> awallin, I agree, that should be really interesting to understand the way hal components works together
[13:59:34] <alex_joni> awallin_: sure there is
[13:59:42] <alex_joni> awallin_: http://softsolder.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/hal-block-diagram.jpg <- perfect example ;)
[14:00:13] <Jymmm> lol
[14:00:28] <ries> I sit possible to program a z-retract when I press the pause button? And when I resume z goes back in?
[14:00:29] <bricofoy> lol
[14:00:57] <alex_joni> ries: only if you misuse a toolchange position
[14:01:15] <Jymmm> O_o
[14:01:26] <ries> alex_joni: Hmmmm.... How would that work if I may ask?
[14:01:27] <cradek> ries: no
[14:01:34] <cradek> alex_joni: ?
[14:02:14] <alex_joni> thought you could program a Z-only toolchange position
[14:02:18] <ries> cradek: They idea was that if I pause, I stop and retract so my router bit will not run hot... and my wood wouldn't burn, are there any alternative solutions?
[14:02:21] <alex_joni> and use M6Txx instead of pause
[14:02:42] <cradek> alex_joni: "press the pause button"
[14:02:46] <alex_joni> oh, then no
[14:03:06] <alex_joni> press the abort.. retract, then run-from-line
[14:03:25] <cradek> ries: you can put optional stops in your program where the tool is out of the work, and if you need to pause, turn on optional stop. it will then pause at the next safe point.
[14:03:48] <cradek> I agree that in wood, you don't want to stop motion in the middle of a cut and leave the tool there
[14:04:24] <Jymmm> ries: Why would you pause?
[14:04:49] <frallzor> alex_joni ill bug you later when my lappie is working so i can test and irc the same time =P
[14:05:32] <ries> Jymmm: With some types of wood you have 'wires' coming from the wood that will not get sucked by a DC. THis happens with bamboo or when teh wood is a bit wet. In that case you might want to pause, remove the wires and then continue
[14:05:58] <cradek> yes in this case optional stop is what you want to use
[14:06:10] <cradek> you really want to pause between cuts, not in one
[14:07:13] <ries> cradek: would that mean I need to write a filter for the input file and then add this potential stops?
[14:07:43] <cradek> I don't know - how you get it in your gcode obviously depends on how you write or generate your gcode
[14:08:29] <ries> I think you mean this bit... halui.program.optional-stop.on (bit, in) -
[14:08:53] <ries> the code get's generated by CAS software, v-carve or others..
[14:09:12] <cradek> then maybe you can edit their postprocessors
[14:09:31] <cradek> you can control optional stop with the M1 button on the toolbar in AXIS
[14:11:24] <ries> understood... most generated programs are 'simple', all absolute positioning and no subroutines... may be I can pass the gcode through a filter, then figure positions out where I can add options stops
[14:11:56] <cradek> after every Z retract?
[14:13:04] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[14:13:44] <ries> Not sure yet.... what I currently understand is that it's optional... so EMC will run over it when I don't want it to, but when I set the optional stop bit then it will stop at the next M1
[14:14:44] <cradek> yes
[14:16:29] <ries> may be I can figure out when the bit is above my zero plane and put them there... Don't know yet if that's possible though... My machine is 3 axis so it sounds plausible.
[14:17:29] <gweepprefect> you'd basically need to write a simple g-code parser that tracked the Z position line to line
[14:17:38] <cradek> assuming you use G0 above the work and G1 to enter the work, you could also abuse spindle-at-speed for this
[14:18:02] <cradek> no, I'm wrong, forget that
[14:19:42] <ries> I think I should beable to track when Z is above my zero plane... They are all absolute coordinates...
[14:20:22] <ries> the things is, not all programs I use have postprocessors that can be programmed well, but they all generate absolute positioned coordinates
[14:21:27] <cradek> it sounds crazy but you could put an M1 on every G0 line
[14:25:18] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:27:18] <ries> cradek: I was thinking about that to, but some program generate one of these 'waterfall' tool paths, where I only have a G0 in the beginning and in the end of a file
[14:27:46] <ries> so by just adding at G0 I will handle the v-carve style programs well, but not others
[14:28:58] <gweepprefect> i did a quick search for a perl or python g-code parser but didn't turn up much
[14:30:12] <gweepprefect> if there was a parsing library for either of those languages, writing something to insert pauses whenever it sees Z go < 0 to >=0
[14:30:16] <cradek> ries: not sure what you can do if you have closed-source software with inadequately-flexible postprocessor. this smarts really must go in the gcode generator.
[14:30:17] <gweepprefect> would be easy
[14:30:30] <cradek> it's somewhat crazy to parse gcode after the fact
[14:31:01] <cradek> gweepprefect: G0 Z#<_SafetyHeight>
[14:31:10] <gweepprefect> sure, but if you have no choice, you have to do what you have to do
[14:31:27] <gweepprefect> it's not that different than hand-editing post output, which people do frequently
[14:31:34] <atmega> anyone know of a really easy to use app for generating g-code for engraving?
[14:31:41] <ries> cradek: I agree about that, just that I might spend more them figuring out all post processors for the programs then writing a filter....
[14:32:20] <ries> atmega: v-carve
[14:35:34] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[14:44:05] <atmega> can you do dimensioned panel type layouts with vcarve?
[14:46:09] <ries> atmega: I am far from a guru, but I think so yes... I just used it a couplfe of times to make some letters
[14:47:12] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:47:16] <atmega> are there any simlar linux packages that don't suck?
[15:00:44] <ries> atmega: I am afraid there are not
[15:01:05] <ries> teh technique of v-carving doesn't seem to be complicated, it wasn't just done yet
[15:17:44] <frallzor> nice finally got a nice litle usb networkdongle for the emc2 comp
[15:21:42] <atmega> looks like I really just need cut2d 98% of the time.
[16:18:45] <seb_kuzminsky> what's the best way to make a press fit hole for a 1/4" pin? use a chucking reamer?
[16:19:15] <cradek> yes, you can buy reamers explicity for dowel pins
[16:19:34] <cradek> a pair of free fit / press fit is very useful (.251 and .2495 or so)
[16:20:17] <cradek> and don't forget some good quality D drills
[16:20:20] <seb_kuzminsky> i bought a cheapie reamer from the local hardware store (McGuckins) and it made an awful racket while cutting, and it made an oversize hole
[16:20:48] <cradek> what spindle speed?
[16:20:51] <skunkworks905> I have had the best luck running very low rpm and pretty high speed...
[16:20:59] <skunkworks905> *feed
[16:21:09] <cradek> yes I'm guessing you were spinning it WAY too fast
[16:21:11] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: about 1500 rpm i think
[16:21:13] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[16:21:16] <seb_kuzminsky> i'll try 500 next time
[16:21:43] <cradek> what size drilled hole did you start with?
[16:21:48] <seb_kuzminsky> 15/64ths
[16:21:56] <seb_kuzminsky> .2344
[16:22:38] <cradek> that's on the small side - you'd be better off with C or D
[16:22:58] <seb_kuzminsky> gotcha
[16:23:11] <seb_kuzminsky> are there boring bars that'll fit into a .250 hole?
[16:23:39] <cradek> sure, but you don't want to bore very deep with them
[16:23:45] <seb_kuzminsky> right...
[16:23:57] <seb_kuzminsky> * seb_kuzminsky clicks up an enco order...
[16:24:00] <cradek> sometimes I make them out of 1/8" square hss blanks
[16:24:31] <seb_kuzminsky> do you turn the shanks on your lathe to put them in the boring head?
[16:24:32] <cradek> you can get preground carbide boring bars that'll fit in .250 but they're quite expensive considering how likely they are to just break off :-/
[16:24:46] <archivist_attic> I make my own too from 1/8 hss
[16:25:01] <cradek> I've never used a tool that small in a boring head - just on the lathe
[16:25:16] <seb_kuzminsky> ah, it makes sense now :-)
[16:25:16] <cradek> for small holes, reamers are wildly superior to boring
[16:26:03] <archivist_attic> getting the hole to start nicely and on center is the hard part
[16:26:31] <cradek> yeah boring is good for positioning, reaming is good for size
[16:26:51] <seb_kuzminsky> for reaming: spot drill, drill slightly undersize (.004), chamfer the top of the hole, ream?
[16:26:57] <cradek> if you need both, you should drill and then bore to just a tiny bit undersize, and barely scrape it to size with the reamer
[16:27:30] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: yep. except I don't bother to chamfer the hole because the reamer tip is chamfered
[16:27:46] <seb_kuzminsky> hah, right. cool!
[16:27:55] <cradek> slow WAY down and it will enter the hole nicely
[16:28:06] <seb_kuzminsky> slow feed & speed both?
[16:28:42] <cradek> just slow speed. you can feed fairly fast. you want to get it decisively into the hole so it centers and starts cutting to size asap
[16:29:07] <seb_kuzminsky> gotcha
[16:29:11] <seb_kuzminsky> i'll give that a try next time
[16:30:07] <cradek> for alignment pins, put the parts together, drill and ream both for press fit, take it apart, ream just the free one. they can't help but line up then.
[16:30:31] <seb_kuzminsky> that makes sense
[16:30:58] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm making a ficture plate with alignment pins, and i want to make a bunch of work blanks that line up with the pins
[16:31:23] <seb_kuzminsky> there are two pins on the Y=0 line, so i can rotate the work around that line and machine the other side
[16:31:32] <seb_kuzminsky> *fixture
[16:31:38] <cradek> neat
[16:31:56] <EbiDK> http://www.wolfire.com/humble Nice idea :D
[16:32:10] <seb_kuzminsky> i can't think of a simpler way to accurately align the features on the two sides of the work
[16:33:25] <cradek> depends what other reference edges/holes you might have
[16:34:15] <cradek> one thing that comes to mind is you could shoulder screws to locate and hold the work instead of dowels which would require another mechanism for clamping
[16:34:16] <seb_kuzminsky> the first sides does include some features that penetrate all the way through the work, that I could pick up after i flip the work
[16:35:15] <seb_kuzminsky> shoulder screws might work... the fixture would have a hole where the top was reamed to .2495, and the bottom had the proper threads for the shoulder bolt?
[16:36:23] <cradek> depending on your required tolerance, you could maybe just drill the blanks to match the shoulder screw?
[16:37:17] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, i dont really know what my tolerance requirements here are :-/
[16:37:25] <seb_kuzminsky> there probably are some, but i dont know what they are...
[16:37:33] <cradek> hm, better start there :-)
[16:37:46] <seb_kuzminsky> see what i can get away with i guess, rather than try to overdesign the fixture
[16:38:11] <cradek> if you have .020 or so to play with, drill + shoulder screws would be fine
[16:38:44] <cradek> if you need < .005 you may have to indicate each one
[16:38:55] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm trying to hold maybe +-.005 on this project, mostly because i dont know any better
[16:40:18] <cradek> lunchtime, bbl
[16:40:23] <seb_kuzminsky> seeya!
[16:40:26] <seb_kuzminsky> and thanks :-)
[16:41:49] <atmega> vcarve looks perfect, except for the price.
[16:52:39] <Jymmm> http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-440859?hpt=Sbin
[17:54:44] <MattyMatt> arrrrgh. blender 2.4 has a built in script that does what I want
[17:56:04] <MattyMatt> cool, I can start milling soon
[18:18:49] <frallzor_garage> testing
[18:19:15] <JT-Work> keyboard works :)
[18:19:31] <frallzor_garage> using the javaclient on my lappie
[18:19:36] <frallzor_garage> never tried
[18:20:12] <JT-Work> cool
[18:20:18] <telmnstr> So we tested these two easy driver stepper motor controllers and they seem to move the laser engraver XY axis pretty well
[18:20:21] <telmnstr> well okay
[18:20:25] <frallzor_garage> never tried I can hook up withsome into hal now when im at the emc comp here next to me =)
[18:20:28] <telmnstr> they get hot as hell tho, but the dox say it's cool
[18:20:32] <frallzor_garage> bah!
[18:20:48] <frallzor_garage> JT-Work you inyo hal btw? :P'
[18:20:55] <frallzor_garage> *into
[18:20:59] <JT-Work> kinda yea
[18:21:14] <JT-Work> what's up?
[18:21:24] <frallzor> http://pastebin.com/baa6qJG7 why wont my gamepad work then =)
[18:21:42] <frallzor> after this guide http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[18:21:57] <JT-Work> I did that one :)
[18:22:19] <frallzor> bah damn IE i closed it
[18:22:43] <frallzor> any ideas why I cant get it going then? =)
[18:26:27] <JT-Work> I don't see anything that stands out atm
[18:26:41] <frallzor_garage> it should work but it doesnt =)
[18:26:53] <frallzor_garage> hal sees my pad and when i click stuff
[18:27:38] <frallzor_garage> i just did the basic one with one speed and axis
[18:29:23] <JT-Work> I don't see any of the axis.n.jog-enable bits on
[18:29:49] <JT-Work> I don't have any configs here just windows at this shop :(
[18:30:03] <frallzor_garage> which row?
[18:30:35] <JT-Work> 39, 74, 109
[18:30:57] <frallzor> hmm
[18:31:02] <frallzor> should then be on?
[18:31:18] <frallzor> *they
[18:31:41] <frallzor> brb phonecall, feel free to brainstorm =)
[18:32:01] <JT-Work> ok
[18:32:40] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//examples_mpg.html
[18:32:42] <ds3> sometime a while back someone here suggested using a M or a G code to sync spindle speed changes with motion... any one recall what that was? I seem to have lost my notes on that
[18:33:04] <JT-Work> G33
[18:33:25] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sec:G33,-G33.1:-Spindle-Synchronized
[18:33:28] <ds3> no, not in that way
[18:33:44] <JT-Work> hmmm
[18:33:48] <ds3> the spindle in my case is a laser I am PWM'ing
[18:34:23] <ds3> I need to know that the PWM level I set it to is what it is prior to moving and it should dwell anywhere w/o being commanded
[18:34:24] <JT-Work> I think micges does that
[18:34:32] <ds3> micges?
[18:34:54] <ds3> ah a user
[18:35:06] <JT-Work> yes, maybe he will pop in now that we said the magic word
[18:35:23] <ds3> someone suggested using that code that I am looking for inplace of the Sxxxx/M05/M03 thing
[18:35:49] <ds3> right now I have it working using Sxxx/M05/M03 but I get tiny overshoots
[18:36:18] <JT-Work> yea, m3/5 are not real time I don't think
[18:36:51] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sec:M62-to-M65:
[18:38:16] <JT-Work> in the 2.4 version is this http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gcode_main.html#sec:M67-Analog-Output
[18:41:04] <frallzor> back in business
[18:41:18] <ds3> yes, that looks like it... I found the IRC log for it
[18:42:42] <ds3> thanks
[18:42:51] <frallzor> hey JT-Work im using 2.4.0
[18:43:10] <frallzor> could that be the bitch in not getting action via the joypad?
[18:43:45] <JT-Work> could be
[18:44:09] <frallzor> so... something is false that should be true?
[18:46:59] <frallzor> but nothing in that wikipage that mentions anything to get it running though
[18:48:39] <JT-Work> I might have missed that... I have to run to the other shop for a bit I'll check
[18:49:25] <frallzor> Im not into hal so I cant say if anything is missing, but as you say, it could be =)
[18:51:24] <micges> ds3: hi
[18:51:38] <micges> can you describe what you need?
[18:54:43] <ds3> hi micges
[18:55:27] <ds3> micges: I just need to be able to control a laser's on and off as synchronized with motion...i.e. if i engrave with a laser, it should be off a specific place
[18:56:10] <micges> hmm
[18:56:40] <micges> only m62 and m63 are real time and can be used in that case
[18:57:02] <ds3> I found my old logs when I asked about it.. I just need to figure out how to really do it
[18:57:20] <ds3> right now I have it working with M05/M03 which works for basic cuts but the tiny overshoots are going to be bad for engraving
[18:57:52] <micges> you can m62 \n g1 m63 \n g1 \n and machine will be still moving while changing pin
[18:59:01] <ds3> the part I need to figure out is how to change my config... I am using something from stepgen right now
[19:00:39] <ds3> bbl... lunch appointment
[19:06:36] <jt-plasma> frallzor: http://pastebin.com/ZZci6J0v
[19:06:58] <jt-plasma> this is mine from the plasma and I don't see any enable bits
[19:07:42] <frallzor> why a separate hale and not like in the guide?
[19:07:45] <frallzor> *hal
[19:09:56] <frallzor> nm me :P I just noticed you pasted 2 hals there =)
[19:11:10] <jt-plasma> ok
[19:11:25] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma heads back to the other shop
[19:19:10] <krushia_> krushia_ is now known as krushia
[19:30:55] <frallzor> gah EMC is killing me now =/
[19:35:26] <JT-Work> run for your life
[19:35:34] <celeron55> 8D
[19:35:42] <frallzor> no change JT-Work =/
[19:35:46] <frallzor> still no go
[19:36:02] <frallzor> pretty much the same output
[19:36:30] <JT-Work> can you jog with the keyboard?
[19:36:35] <frallzor> yup
[19:37:27] <JT-Work> you move the joystick and see that axis jog count change?
[19:37:45] <frallzor> yes
[19:38:01] <frallzor> its 255 something if I looked at the right one
[19:38:36] <frallzor> and axis positiopn is between -1 and 1
[19:38:41] <frallzor> *position
[20:03:21] <JT-Work> I'll have to check in the morning when I'm home and near the plasma torch
[20:03:39] <frallzor> hey JT-Work the part with axis enable being false, could something like this work setp axis.0.jog-enable TRUE that DaViruz hinted me
[20:03:48] <frallzor> just as thoughts now =)
[20:04:13] <JT-Work> I think that might be for jog +- to work but I'm not sure
[20:05:14] <JT-Work> give it a try :)
[20:06:57] <frallzor> cant say it will mess something up :P
[20:08:20] <alex_joni> the axis.0.* is part of motion controller
[20:08:27] <alex_joni> and only enables an mpg input
[20:08:37] <alex_joni> so surely not connected to halui analog jogging
[20:08:53] <alex_joni> frallzor: try getting debug level up, and see if halui is sending the jog commands
[20:09:29] <frallzor> I have no idea on how to do that
[20:10:07] <frallzor> btw my version was 2.4.0 ~pre
[20:10:32] <alex_joni> frallzor: open the ini file and edit the DEBUG = 0 line to read DEBUG = 0xffffff
[20:10:49] <alex_joni> then start emc from the terminal as I showed you earlier (just like halcmd, but type emc)
[20:10:54] <frallzor> ah that thing
[20:11:13] <alex_joni> you will get the config picker, but you simply need to push enter and it will run the latest chosen config
[20:11:20] <frallzor> just wait a little, ill try and get my lappie working on site =)
[20:11:22] <frallzor> brb
[20:14:56] <Guest776> frallzor here =)
[20:15:09] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkgZFI4ZT0I
[20:15:12] <JT-Work> frallzor: you have a funny name now
[20:15:17] <Guest776> it works
[20:15:22] <alex_joni> what does?
[20:15:30] <Guest776> emc in terminal = run 2.3.0¨
[20:15:35] <Guest776> now the jog works¨
[20:15:49] <alex_joni> hmm, then I guess you are running the wrong one
[20:15:51] <Guest776> so its clearly 2.4.0 issues
[20:16:10] <alex_joni> did you run the . scripts/emc-environment ?
[20:16:19] <Guest776> hmm that i didnt
[20:16:24] <alex_joni> JT-Work: you had joystick jogging.. right?
[20:16:54] <JT-Work> yes
[20:16:56] <Guest776> its works flawlessly now
[20:17:47] <alex_joni> with 2.4.0~pre ?
[20:17:54] <Guest776> 2.3.0
[20:18:04] <JT-Work> alex_joni: this is mine [13:21]<frallzor>after this guide http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[20:18:09] <alex_joni> try 2.4.0
[20:18:13] <alex_joni> JT-Work: on 2.4 ?
[20:18:13] <DaViruz> i seem to remember there being some gui for configuring HAL besides the eagle plugin, but i can't seem to find it now
[20:18:22] <JT-Work> alex_joni: yes 2.4
[20:18:25] <alex_joni> DaViruz: try gedit ;)
[20:18:30] <alex_joni> JT-Work: ah, ok..
[20:18:35] <alex_joni> then I'm at ease :D
[20:18:36] <JT-Work> I have 2.4 on both the plasma and the Hardinge
[20:19:12] <Guest776> pre?
[20:19:53] <alex_joni> there is no other 2.4.0 yet
[20:20:05] <micges> DaViruz: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?HalSchematicsUsingGschem
[20:20:09] <alex_joni> Guest776: did you run 2.4.0~pre in the mean time?
[20:20:32] <DaViruz> micges: hmm, i don't think that's it either
[20:20:59] <micges> I know about eagle and this one
[20:21:57] <DaViruz> maybe i'm confusing it with the classic ladder gui
[20:26:05] <Guest776> crap now I cant get the X inversed :P
[20:27:53] <skunkworks905> umm - just got an email from oricle/sun for open office... $41.95
[20:28:20] <alex_joni> sure it's not Star Office ?
[20:28:44] <skunkworks905> Oracle Open Office Standard Edition is a complete, feature-rich office productivity suite
[20:30:31] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[20:33:21] <Guest776> setp sum2.X.gain -1
[20:33:33] <Guest776> how to know what I can set X as?
[20:33:41] <Guest776> reversing an axis
[20:34:38] <Guest776> using your paste JT-Work =) all axis except X works for me
[20:34:51] <Guest776> its flipped so to speak
[20:40:38] <JT-Work> the gain -1 reverses the axis direction as I recall
[20:41:15] <Guest776> trying to look what ya did with 1 and replicate, but all i get is errors =)
[20:41:49] <JT-Work> did you add another sum and addf the new sum to a thread?
[20:42:54] <JT-Work> * JT-Work is off to the house now
[20:49:56] <Guest776> well im atleast 1 step closer now =)
[20:57:37] <JT-Hardinge> frallzor: you get it running?
[20:58:03] <frallzor> all besides reverse for X
[20:58:17] <frallzor> tried adding threads but no go
[20:58:31] <frallzor> but I dont know if I understood the wiki correctly
[20:59:23] <frallzor> http://pastebin.com/B8LYzXUN currently like yours
[20:59:37] <frallzor> but changed X and Y since i stand at the short end of the table =)
[21:01:13] <frallzor> trying to understand the addf parts now
[21:03:52] <JT-Hardinge> see if this helps http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_basic_hal.html
[21:05:01] <frallzor> I see i need to change the counts of or2 and sum2 to 3
[21:05:07] <frallzor> correct?
[21:05:24] <alex_joni> yup
[21:06:05] <frallzor> and 1 new or2 and sum3 with 2.3?
[21:06:10] <frallzor> *sum2
[21:06:23] <frallzor> or should the numbers represent the count too?
[21:07:07] <frallzor> ill just change how I think it should be and show :P
[21:07:48] <JT-Hardinge> change one thing at a time :)
[21:08:17] <frallzor> sitting inside now witha copy of the file
[21:08:25] <frallzor> plenty of time to mess and fail =P
[21:11:15] <frallzor> http://pastebin.com/bTE0Mziq my best bet
[21:11:41] <frallzor> maybe change the order of the 2.X if thats needed =)
[21:12:37] <ds3> \
[21:14:28] <JT-Hardinge> frallzor: the count is 0,1,2
[21:14:37] <JT-Hardinge> zero is a number
[21:14:41] <frallzor> even for the 2.X?
[21:15:22] <JT-Hardinge> 2.X?
[21:15:37] <frallzor> or what count did you respond to?
[21:15:54] <JT-Hardinge> addf or2.0 or2.1 or2.3
[21:16:06] <frallzor> thats the 2.X im talking about =)
[21:16:15] <JT-Hardinge> it is or2.0, or2.1, or2.2
[21:16:27] <frallzor> noticed that too thats just a huuuuge typo =)
[21:16:45] <frallzor> count should be 2 then?
[21:17:49] <JT-Hardinge> no count=3
[21:18:04] <frallzor> ok, another thing that confuses me is this
[21:18:05] <frallzor> # the following does the magic of setting the jog speeds
[21:18:05] <frallzor> net remote-speed-slow or2.0.in0 input.0.btn-trigger
[21:18:05] <frallzor> net remote-speed-medium or2.1.in0 input.0.btn-thumb
[21:18:05] <frallzor> net remote-speed-fast or2.0.in1 or2.1.in1 input.0.btn-thumb2
[21:18:07] <JT-Hardinge> but their names are or2.0, or2.1 or2.2
[21:18:19] <frallzor> whats with the 2.0 and 2.1 there?
[21:18:34] <JT-Hardinge> two different or2's
[21:18:57] <frallzor> so that should be as is even with a third reverse?
[21:19:39] <JT-Hardinge> the reverse only uses a sum2
[21:19:57] <JT-Hardinge> the or2's are used to set the jog speed
[21:19:57] <frallzor> ah
[21:20:10] <frallzor> but what about the new sum 2.2 then?
[21:20:14] <frallzor> or its useless?
[21:20:17] <frallzor> no need for it?
[21:20:32] <JT-Hardinge> you will need that to reverse the X axis
[21:20:47] <frallzor> I mean or2
[21:20:51] <frallzor> im tired =)
[21:20:57] <frallzor> or2 2.2
[21:21:09] <frallzor> thats useless right if I dont add something new?
[21:21:39] <ds3> btw, is there a way to get tkemc to show me what is the actual current feed rate?
[21:22:02] <JT-Hardinge> if you copy the last 4 lines and paste them after the Z reverse and change the sum2.1 to sum2.2 and jog.2 to jog.0
[21:22:59] <JT-Hardinge> change one line at a time so your mistake line is easy to find :)
[21:25:41] <frallzor> http://pastebin.com/qPVFbfxM did like this
[21:25:47] <frallzor> should be right?
[21:29:21] <JT-Hardinge> looks right
[21:29:37] <frallzor> and I removed the or2 2.2 since its useless =)
[21:31:23] <andypugh> frallzor: You can add more than one hal file to your ini. I have a standalone one called "joypad" that only handles the jogging. Do you want it?
[21:31:55] <frallzor> If I want one Ill try to add one myself first =) ill play with this first
[21:31:59] <frallzor> but thanks anyway =)
[21:32:11] <frallzor> finally got stuff working =)
[21:33:41] <frallzor> had to go back to 2.3.0 but I dont complain
[21:33:42] <frallzor> it works =)
[21:34:03] <andypugh> If you want it or not, here it is :-) www.pastebin.org/205284
[21:35:06] <andypugh> I have mine set up so that the left-hand back-buttons are:
[21:35:08] <alex_joni> andypugh: is it working with 2.4.0~pre ?
[21:35:12] <andypugh> none - no jogging
[21:35:22] <andypugh> top - fast jog
[21:35:30] <andypugh> bottom - slow jog
[21:35:36] <andypugh> both - really slow jog
[21:35:40] <andypugh> Works well
[21:35:49] <andypugh> And yes, it works with 2.4~pre
[21:35:56] <alex_joni> ok, thx
[21:36:09] <frallzor> I still blame 2.4.0 for not working for me =)
[21:36:26] <Jymmm> I just blame alex_joni
[21:36:53] <frallzor> but I dont mind running 2.3.0 =)
[21:36:57] <andypugh> I can pull the latest build down and see if it still works, if you like.
[21:37:47] <frallzor> me?
[21:40:12] <andypugh> I was talking to ale
[21:40:13] <andypugh> x
[21:40:59] <frallzor> btw is there something bad about 2.3 that one could live without? =)
[21:41:26] <frallzor> just so there isnt some major bug and I think im all good now
[21:41:32] <andypugh> I think lathe threading is a lot better in 2.4
[21:41:40] <frallzor> im all milling
[21:43:30] <frallzor> probably a stupid Q but G64 works with 2.3?
[21:44:13] <jthornton> if it is in the manual it does
[21:44:39] <frallzor> just so it isnt some new addition
[21:45:16] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: How's Dallas?
[21:47:45] <SWPLinux> OK so far
[21:47:58] <SWPLinux> about to head to the hotel for a little while
[21:48:41] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: ah ok
[21:50:36] <SWPLinux> in fact, I think I'll do that right now. see you later :)
[21:50:58] <Jymmm> Man he's such a quitter! lol
[21:55:40] <dareposte> I have a lathe, no encoder is hooked up yet but it does use PDM to control spindle speed. Is there a way to do CSS with this setup? Maybe like a simulated encoder or something?
[21:56:24] <archivist> make an encoder
[21:56:40] <Jymmm> dot com
[21:56:42] <dareposte> I have an encoder already, its just not hooked up yet
[21:57:04] <dareposte> i.e. i need to make a bracket, bore the cogged belt, etc
[21:57:09] <Jymmm> install an encoder dot com
[21:57:10] <dareposte> cogged belt pulley
[21:57:40] <dareposte> so the short answer is "no" then?
[21:58:16] <dareposte> I'm planning to put the encoder on this weekend but I have a part I'd like to make that's programmed using CSS commands before this weekend
[21:58:19] <ds3> I wonder if you can process the back EMF from a 3 phase motor on the spindle to get the equiv of encoder info
[21:58:57] <dareposte> I was hoping that since EMC was already commanding the spindle speed through the PDM output, that it would be possible to use that as an RPM input back to the CSS command
[21:59:21] <dareposte> but I'm not familiar enough with all the back-end to know if it would be possible or not
[22:01:44] <archivist> it needs the index pulse from the encoder to know when to start the pass for screw cutting
[22:01:52] <andypugh> ds3: No, because 3-phase motors slip.
[22:02:23] <dareposte> archivist: I'm not cutting threads, just trying to use CSS
[22:03:03] <dareposte> ds3: i think the vector-drive VFD's do something like that, for an approximate speed
[22:03:20] <andypugh> dareposte: You can just wire the spindle command speed into the spindle speed feedback in HAL.
[22:03:37] <andypugh> No need to reprocess the PDM info.
[22:03:56] <dareposte> ah okay, that would be easier yes
[22:04:04] <ds3> andypugh: aren't there 3PH motors with PM in the center?
[22:04:34] <andypugh> Yes, and those don't slip, but they are generally called BLDC or AC servo motors
[22:05:04] <ds3> Oh that's the name for them
[22:05:34] <dareposte> andypugh: I'll try that out, thanks for the suggestion
[22:05:37] <ds3> so 3PH motors tend to refer to the ones with a coil assembly in the rotor that rely on slip to generate the counter EMF?
[22:05:57] <andypugh> (And in fact I am just about to wander out to the workshop to do some tests on an EMC function specially for driving that sort of motor.
[22:06:15] <andypugh> ds3: Squirrel cage, yes.
[22:07:03] <ds3> <-- learned about the theory but blank on practical nomenclature :(
[22:14:46] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[22:54:32] <bcj> This might be slightly off-topic, but can I ask people's opinions of the Sieg SX2 mill?
[22:54:43] <bcj> Firstly as a manual machine, then as a base for a CNC machine.
[22:54:57] <pfred1> bcj it seems a tad smallish to me
[22:55:06] <ds3> have you seen web page reviewing it?
[22:55:18] <pfred1> bcj my mill is twicw its size and is a bit on the small side
[22:55:51] <pfred1> bcj I guess it'd be OK for non ferrous work
[22:55:55] <bcj> I have no need to make large parts - the size of the SX2 seems like it would suit me.
[22:56:14] <pfred1> bcj size is about more than work envelope
[22:56:20] <bcj> I'm just starting in machining (having not been in a machine shop since school).
[22:56:40] <pfred1> bcj you need mass to soak up vibration too you know?
[22:56:46] <bcj> pfred1: Do you mean that larger machines are generally more reliable/higher quality?
[22:56:50] <bcj> Ah
[22:56:53] <andypugh> I have something about SX2 size
[22:57:01] <pfred1> bcj google tool chatter
[22:57:09] <andypugh> I wouldn't buy it again.
[22:57:22] <bcj> pfred1: Can mass-loading not be added later?
[22:57:31] <bcj> That might sound like a foolish question.
[22:57:34] <pfred1> bcj not in the way you need it
[22:57:51] <pfred1> bcj I've run mills 12 feet tall its a different world
[22:57:59] <andypugh> Actually, googling, I have exactly an SX2 painted white.
[22:58:07] <pfred1> make Bridgeports seems like crap
[22:58:48] <ds3> tool chatter can be worked around by taking very light cuts
[22:58:58] <bcj> Ok, I'll put it this way... for the same budget as an SX2 (and preferring to buy new for a number of reasons), what would you recommend?
[22:58:58] <andypugh> If you convert it to CNC you will spend a lot of money and end up with a very expensive machine that is worth very little.
[22:59:12] <pfred1> bcj yes but that causes tool wear machine wear nerves wear
[22:59:23] <andypugh> I wouldn't recommend buying new.
[22:59:36] <ds3> bcj: a CNC'ed Taig if you can accept that work envelope
[22:59:54] <pfred1> bcj if you are only interested in working in non ferrous materials of small size then it would be suitable
[23:00:25] <pfred1> ds3 the motor on my mill more than double outweighs a Taig
[23:00:29] <bcj> Which Taig?
[23:00:48] <bcj> http://www.taigtools.com/mmill.html
[23:00:50] <andypugh> bcj: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq8egziHxVg
[23:00:52] <bcj> ?
[23:01:24] <andypugh> If you do get one and want any advice on conversion, I can probably help.
[23:01:40] <bcj> That's another question...
[23:01:52] <pfred1> this is cute: http://www.ferret.com.au/c/Duff-MacIntosh/Unimat-CNC-mill-and-lathes-for-computer-aided-design-and-manufacture-available-from-Duff-MacIntosh-n835949
[23:01:53] <ds3> bcj: there is only one... you can get a longer table as an option and you can get ER-16 or "proprietary" as a spindle
[23:01:54] <bcj> Is it more economical to buy a CNC machine, or do a manual conversion?
[23:02:02] <andypugh> Firstly, that Z conversion you see in the video isn't great.
[23:02:11] <pfred1> bcj find someone with a control burnt CNC-1
[23:02:14] <bcj> ds3: There are two on the Taig website.
[23:02:27] <pfred1> bcj and offer to take it off their hands
[23:02:46] <ds3> bcj: they are the same machine... one comes with CNC preinstalled... and I think you can get it with either of the features
[23:03:32] <pfred1> bcj CNC and economical are most times mutually exclusive terms
[23:03:34] <andypugh> Define "economical". If you mean the ratio of finished value to purchase price, then a second hand machine made as a CNC is the best bet.
[23:03:39] <ds3> bcj: have you seen this page: http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Main/mini-mill.htm
[23:03:56] <bcj> Yes
[23:04:19] <bcj> I understand that the Sieg is rebranded as a number of other machines.
[23:04:35] <bcj> Although the new model isn't available everywhere yet.
[23:04:51] <pfred1> I've personally never seen a bigger den of thieves than the CNC business appears to gather to itself
[23:05:00] <andypugh> The thing about the Seigs is that they are rubbish
[23:05:24] <andypugh> Plastic gears and a handful of grease is no way to build a milling spindle.
[23:05:52] <pfred1> andypugh the grease that was in my mill was more like sludge
[23:05:54] <bcj> andypugh: The SX2 has toothed belt drive.
[23:06:25] <bcj> andypugh: ...and brushless motor.
[23:06:40] <andypugh> That sounds better, and probably quieter. I thought of that conversion myself. In the end I went for oil-bath and metal gears, and now it is just very noisy.
[23:06:42] <pfred1> bcj if you've no interest in machining harder materials then I'd say fine go with it
[23:06:58] <pfred1> bcj for aluminum and brass it'd work a treat
[23:07:01] <bcj> pfred1: Mostly ally to be honest.
[23:07:16] <pfred1> bcj then it'd be just the thing
[23:07:28] <bcj> Or aluminium as we might say ;-)
[23:07:30] <pfred1> it'd rip through that stuff all day long
[23:07:54] <pfred1> slap a chunk of mild steel on it and you'll be wondering what is going on though
[23:08:02] <bcj> I basically want a "cheap" way to start out learning the skills.
[23:08:12] <andypugh> That video I posted was mine cutting steel.
[23:08:36] <andypugh> Well, "tickling" steel compared to what a real mill will do.
[23:08:39] <pfred1> andypugh i cut steel on my mill but I have to be very careful
[23:09:05] <ds3> I cut steel on the taig
[23:09:15] <pfred1> I still think half of my problem is the base i have it on now
[23:09:36] <bcj> Has anyone seen the Glacern "Crash Course in Milling" YouTube videos?
[23:09:38] <bcj> Wow!
[23:09:38] <pfred1> ds3 you mill 3/4" pockets 1" deep in one pass do you?
[23:09:55] <ds3> pfred1: no
[23:10:04] <ds3> but stuff like that stalls even the bigger mills in Al
[23:10:05] <pfred1> ds3 then you're not milling steel
[23:10:07] <bcj> Those videos make me want to quit my day job and become a machinist.
[23:10:25] <pfred1> ds3 nah I've sat there for weeks on end doing that on regular Bridgeports
[23:10:31] <ds3> pfred1: I have stalled a haas doing that sort of thing in Alum.
[23:11:37] <pfred1> ds3 I don't have much experneice with aluminum
[23:11:55] <pfred1> I do know it requires different tools speeds and feeds than steel does
[23:12:28] <ds3> i*nod*
[23:12:31] <pfred1> and when i do work it my mill chops it up like butter on a hot day
[23:13:08] <bcj> Is machining a hobby for everyone here, or a profession for some?
[23:13:24] <pfred1> bcj years ago I worked in a tool and die shop
[23:13:37] <pfred1> doing production
[23:15:15] <bcj> I'm a verification engineer (at the moment).
[23:15:37] <ds3> for semi?
[23:15:38] <pfred1> bcj is that like QC?
[23:15:46] <bcj> Not really
[23:16:00] <bcj> I verify hardware IP.
[23:16:02] <ds3> bcj: semiconductors?
[23:16:06] <bcj> Yeah
[23:16:14] <bcj> Graphics processor cores.
[23:16:15] <ds3> bcj: so you write test vectors?
[23:16:47] <bcj> Not exactly
[23:17:03] <pfred1> bcj you smoke chips?
[23:17:27] <pfred1> man that'd be a great job to let the magic smoke out of chips and get paid to do it!
[23:17:29] <bcj> I write test plans and testbenches.
[23:18:15] <bcj> As I was in software shortly before this I also do more software-oriented tasks.
[23:18:24] <pfred1> bcj this was me yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU2GaSMPxNI
[23:19:04] <ds3> ah
[23:19:15] <ds3> a bit more interesting then generating stimulus to flip a bit
[23:19:40] <bcj> People haven't written test vectors for about a decade.
[23:19:46] <pfred1> ds3 oh i don't like it when things become too interesting because they often become costly then too
[23:19:48] <ds3> I see
[23:20:06] <bcj> It's all constrained-random object-oriented testbenches and formal methods these days.
[23:20:07] <ds3> pfred1: it is only money
[23:20:19] <ds3> and that stuff is rapidly going out style ;)
[23:20:22] <pfred1> ds3 but I'm cheap
[23:20:25] <bcj> There's no way you could verify modern complex cores with test vectors.
[23:20:27] <dareposte> Trying to get CSS to operate open-loop, the only parameter in the HAL manual I can find that holds it up is motion.spindle-at-speed, and I forced it true but nothing happened
[23:20:43] <pfred1> bcj sure you could
[23:20:55] <bcj> If you had the time...
[23:21:03] <bcj> Turing machine time that is.
[23:21:06] <bcj> :)
[23:21:12] <pfred1> bcj just ship it and let the users figure it out
[23:21:17] <ds3> pfred1: spend it now before it is all worthless
[23:21:20] <bcj> Ah - good old beta testing.
[23:21:29] <bcj> If only that were the case.
[23:21:52] <bcj> Still, it pays the bills after all.
[23:22:05] <andypugh> Argh! Where do you set the debug level?
[23:22:11] <bcj> And affords me the ability to look for "toys" such as mills.
[23:22:17] <bcj> :)
[23:22:41] <pfred1> bcj yeah if all you're looking for is to do aluminum then small mills are great big mills are a pain to deal with
[23:23:33] <bcj> I'll put it this way: I'm not yet on the slippery slop that leads to a reinforced concrete floor and fork-lift.
[23:23:38] <bcj> slope*
[23:23:47] <pfred1> bcj when your tooling is so much harder than your work materials the rules change dramatically
[23:24:05] <bcj> It makes sense.
[23:24:49] <pfred1> bcj I guess thats why they gave us clay to play with in school and not granite
[23:25:10] <bcj> Moulding granite with your fingers is bloody hard graft.
[23:25:28] <andypugh> dareposte: try net spindle-loopback motion.spindle.speed-out => motion.spindle.speed-in
[23:25:51] <pfred1> andypugh do you like the beach?
[23:26:02] <andypugh> ?
[23:26:19] <pfred1> andypugh because when I get my machine together you may just have to come over for a summer ;)
[23:26:53] <andypugh> Actually, I don't really like beaches. I shun sunlight in the main, in fact.
[23:27:34] <pfred1> andypugh we got crazy bars too that end up on special episodes of Cops
[23:27:35] <bcj> Random question: is it feasible to CNC a machine with hydraulics?
[23:27:49] <bcj> ...or, rather, has anyone ever tried such a thing?
[23:27:50] <andypugh> Yes.
[23:28:06] <pfred1> andypugh http://www.trutv.com/shows/surf_and_rescue/index.html
[23:28:14] <andypugh> I spent years running servohydraulic machines
[23:28:44] <bcj> How do they fair precision-wise?
[23:29:26] <dareposte> andypugh: won't load with that command in the HAL file
[23:29:27] <pfred1> bcj I ran a manual horizontal bandsaw that was hydraulic cut to .001" every time
[23:29:55] <pfred1> bcj had automatic feed jaws
[23:30:01] <andypugh> The machines I was running were micron-accurate
[23:30:13] <pfred1> oh she's hot!
[23:30:33] <bcj> Any URLs?
[23:31:44] <dareposte> andypugh: do I need to do an addf first?
[23:32:18] <bcj> Who makes these servohydraulic machines?
[23:32:20] <andypugh> They weren't CNC machining machines, they were computer controlled servohydraulic fatigue testers. But that just means more force and much more accuracy.
[23:32:21] <pfred1> my kinda girl! she blew .189
[23:34:56] <pfred1> I found out today i have serious hydraulic problems
[23:35:04] <andypugh> And we have some rigs at work that run vehicle chassis and suspension systems through road-simulation cycles at full speed and full stroke. Again servo-hydraulic but with a line of 20 30hp pumps and a 12" hydraulic ring-main.
[23:36:37] <pfred1> andypugh you could always ship some vehicles to manhattan too you know?
[23:36:58] <andypugh> We will be doing soon. You are getting Focus and Fiesta.
[23:37:23] <pfred1> andypugh they got potholes there big enough to swallow two of that car at once!
[23:37:41] <andypugh> We have test tracks like that.
[23:38:06] <pfred1> andypugh yeah but adding a million crazy NYC driver all around is a dimension difficult to simulate
[23:38:12] <dareposte> andypugh: I found an equivalent line already in my stepconf file, still no dice
[23:38:44] <bcj> Thanks all for your input - this is certainly a more friendly channel than some!
[23:38:57] <bcj> I'll take what you've said on board and have another dig around the interweb.
[23:39:08] <bcj> Cheers
[23:39:17] <ds3> have fun moving Bridgeports ;)
[23:39:52] <pfred1> ds3 its not that bad
[23:40:39] <pfred1> ds3 I ran one pretty big mill and i have no idea how it was ever put into place
[23:40:57] <andypugh> dareposte: At the bottom of http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//examples_spindle.html
[23:40:59] <pfred1> ds3 thing was like 10X the size of a Bridgeport
[23:41:10] <andypugh> It seems to hint that you need encoder pulses
[23:41:37] <pfred1> andypugh can't do open loop spindle?
[23:41:50] <andypugh> Of course you can :-)
[23:41:51] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/sim_encoder.9.html
[23:42:07] <pfred1> andypugh well thats good because I'd sure hope that you could
[23:42:32] <pfred1> though i run tools my machine isn't rated for and i have to pay attention to motor bog
[23:42:34] <andypugh> There might be other ways, but I reckon sim_encoder would be something to try
[23:42:53] <pfred1> I just put new belts on it though
[23:43:02] <pfred1> you know those link belt things?
[23:43:23] <pfred1> they're sexy!
[23:43:23] <andypugh> They are allegedly better than continuous ones
[23:43:33] <pfred1> andypugh well they sure do look col
[23:43:37] <pfred1> cool even
[23:43:43] <pfred1> mine are green
[23:45:24] <pfred1> vibration is always such an issue I figured i'd give them a try
[23:45:42] <pfred1> that, and i was due for new belts anyways
[23:46:56] <pfred1> oh EMC2 in the article
[23:48:52] <andypugh> This is frustrating. There is a parameter you can put in the INI file to set the debug level, but I really can't find it...
[23:49:46] <pfred1> andypugh for what?
[23:50:00] <andypugh> It sets the level of debug messages that you see
[23:50:13] <pfred1> andypugh i figured that much for what though?
[23:50:28] <andypugh> EMC2?
[23:50:35] <pfred1> andypugh grep -ir debug * in the source tree
[23:50:56] <pfred1> tell you everything ther is to know about debug
[23:51:07] <andypugh> Yes, I don't want to know that much
[23:51:25] <pfred1> might be best to pipe that to less
[23:51:25] <andypugh> Ah, stuff it, I will set the leel by hand and recompile.
[23:52:12] <pfred1> this is just so cute: http://www.duffmac.com.au/external/index.asp?page=0&link=www.unimateducation.com
[23:54:10] <pfred1> they even have a link to linuxcnc.org/ on their page nice!
[23:58:30] <pfred1> so what exactly is CoolCNC?