MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
ewlsey max feed rate is set in the gcode, so max velocity is rapids
MattyMatt, most controls have a max allowable feed rate, and rapid can be higher
emc seems to treat them the same
coordinated moves are subject to other constraints like the max speed of axes
well max velocity is rapid speed, I'm 90% sure of that
which is quite sure, by my standards :)
if you had a machine like a tapping center, it has very fast rapids, but you would never want to feed that fast
just wondering if it can be limited in emc
not that I'm aware of
seems hard to idiot proof with EMC
high speed metal is always hard to idiotproof
Not if you have zeroed in your scope properly.
I dream of an intelligent machine, that can't be crashed and knows how to deal with awkward materials
tis but a dream
It's called a crusher.
what i mean is that EMC seems to be set up to be used by the person who wrote it and he thought everyone was as smart as him
Heh, no comment.
It's worse than that, it was (and is) written by dozens of people who are all scared of being seen as less smart than the others :-)
the original emc was designed for pro machinists
I haven't slept for days, since I started to try to write a bit of EMC.
it'd be like having speed limiters on the handwheels
MattyMatt: not exactly. THE ORIGINAL EMC was a proof of concept from NIST. Then "evolved" from there.
the NIST's intention was for it to be used in US industry tho
No, it was a proof of concept, nothing more.
not by hobbyists
seems like it can do anything if you have zen-like patience and can remember the coutless work arounds
ewlsey: Part of it is that people only tend to write things that they want. And once it is working they understand that bit so well there is not much incentive to make it easy, they want to get on with cutting metal.
I'm only repeating other opinions.
andypugh that was my observation
Well, it can do literally anything, being open source and written in a range of Turing-complete languages.
you've just sort of answered the question I came to ask. should I implement tool compensation in this script tonight, or should I just shrink my toolpath so I can mill tomorrow for sure?
whenever I ask why EMC does something weird, the response is usually "why wouldn't it do that?"
That's better than the other answer "change it if you want" :-)
or "it's always been like that, here are 57 steps to get around it"
I think that is an exaggeration. I have found most things pretty easy once you get into the mindset of the system
(And I am an EMC noob)
yeah I chidd
I wouldn't want to start with a lathe. 3 axis is easy on the brain
Anybody got a live machine with a Mesa card and enable_raw turned on?
but hobbing with a combined mill/lathe :) you are no noob no more
Writing a new module driver for Hostmot2 probably disqualifies me too. Not that it seems to work.
with a homemade spindle ecoder iirc
That's because I am tight
(And also because commercial ones have too-small holes in the middle)
too late for modesty. we seen the vid
Oh, digression, you could edit that Wikipedia page about you Matt, the picture seems remarkably unflattering.
I will again one day, but of course one isn't supposed to :)
I presume all pics must have been ones that have been published in citable sources. I fooled around a lot for the mags
No? Seems a bit odd, I would have thought you were the expert in that particular field
No, the picture needs to be public domain. So you can declare any picture you have as PD and use that
that's my reasoning :) better to be truth than anything else
that might be construed as original reasearch into what a Matthew Smith looks like
I know what at least one looks like. Tall, ginger and acne-scarred.
I'll put my choice of pics on facebook, and put a link to that on WP
is this the right MS? me looks
I had a friend at college of the same name. He counts frogs for a living nowadays.
Have you seen those wierd 1' tall polythene fences they put up on the sides of motoraways and building sites? That is his game.
that's a fair photo. I look like that now but with greyer beard
where's me clippers, and me push bike
work off that lard
yeah frogs are having a hard time at the moment
Aha! I have found a reference at least to the tall poxed one: http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/matthew-smith/1/765/B17
Fellow of the Royal Entomological Society. that's insects isn't it?
or bugs in general anyway
nope bugs in general is arthropodology :) entomology is the insect branch
You are discussing the etymology of entomology?
fraid so, and then I got into Hobbits
you make a habit of hobbits?
nope, but they're rather fascinating http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis
I hope they get some DNA. the Space Corps need men like them
There is a great deal of debate about whether they really are a species, or just a bit poorly
Though insular dwarfism did result in Cyprus having a population of 200kg elephants, which sound like great pets. They could carry the shopping.
can they properly evaluate the benefits of a two-for-one offer?
They would never forget the milk.
or the caraway buns
I play on online game which has little elephants in it, every now and again (very rarely) one of them says "Oh, now I remember" instead of the usual "toot"
Does that have elephants?
dunno. that's why I'm asking :)
my game has elephants
No, it's an odd little pirate game.
[02:03:21] <MattyMatt> http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3397/ele92.jpg
Though it has probably run its course, the player base is shrinking, it seems. I have played for 5 years (eek!)
[02:04:01] <MattyMatt> http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4821/ele25.jpg
without subsurf. looks better in some ways
That's a very turgid elephant.
sprites tend to spherical
everythings a bit chubby in a game
The game I am playing is http://www.puzzlepirates.com/
It's the archetypical "pirate themed puzzle game"
There is actually a rather interesting disconnect between what you do and what it achieves. For example 5 pirates playing something a lot like tetris will repair carpentry damage.
I did the gfx for a tetris where demons are throwing twisted corpses into a pit
I couldn't be arsed writing it tho :)
[02:09:07] <andypugh> http://www.xkcd.com/724/
YPP has charmingly naive 2D graphics. It's about the gameplay.
(Sorry, that game I linked to up there)
Very off-topic, ever so sorry.
me thinking i was reading in a nintendo ds development channel added to the confusion :)
Nintendo DS? Isn't that a bit new-fangled?
Though, what do you develop for nowadays Matt?
could make for an interesting jog control
"You can't jig left unless you jump over these barrel"?
i'm sorry mario, the endmill is in another castle
"You took the specified cutter path, and your workpiece was eaten by a grue"
(Incidentally, there is a proper text-mode Rogue for iPhone)
I don't even dabble in DS really. I got all the kit
and I permalurk in the ds channel
I don't d IRC, 'tis too new-fangled for me.
except for this channel, obviously
9 channels for me. 2 DS, 3 Allegro 2 blender and 3 cnc
that may seem like 10, but one is the allegro channel where we're supposed to be porting to DS :)
allegro games lib
I think I am more interested in the rubbish car
I do keep meaning do a nice austin allegro tho
as a demo for the game's lib's 3d
I have meddled with "art" 3D but find I too desperately want to type dimesnions
blender lets you do that, but not in the way that makes most sense CAD wise
(having just proved that I can't, for a certain level of abstraction)
blender was designed to make game assets
yeah gfx, models, textures
That would be jargon, right?
all the data for a game
now THAT's jargon :)
I didn't mean it in that sense
to management, assets are what they are literally. things you've invested money in and now own and are the value of the project
Well, yes. Like I am a "human resource"
I am waiting for us to have a "wetware components" office
a vs project calls them resources
Anyway: do you have EMC up and running anywhere convenient?
that london bus I did is now an asset. I can use that to add bussy value to any product
And do you have any sort of Mesa card?
yes but no
my machine runs fine on one parport
I was meant to be getting up in 2 hours to join a number of busses on the Historic Commercial Vehicle Society London to Brighton run. (on a 1916 fire engine) Which I have done twice a year for the last 25 years. But I didn't fancy it this year.
Though when I decided not to bother I was rather expecting to have a new Ball Screw
BTW here is a post on my machine: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=770036#post770036
I think it is good enough to call it done
it looks very small to be using proper mills with tapers
just added a few more pics
I have the original invoice, it cost about $30,000 in 1992
the travel is X 8, Y 6, Z 7 inches
the shop I bought it from used it to make graphite electrodes for a sinker EDM
I wanted enough x&y to make guitar bodies. I don't think I've managed it
MattyMatt: The obvious answer (and a very wrong one indeed) is to take up the Ukelele
they are very popular atm
can I make them if I promise not to play em
my mill just makes parts for itself...
ewlsey: Is that BLDC motor still good
it has an encoder too
Hang on to it, it is possible that BLDC motor control might get a bit easier in EMC soon
It is an odd voltage, 170V. That was the problem and why I replaced it with an AC motor
Can anyone here recommend a propane torch?
I am working on two parallel threads, Arduino BLDC driver and Hostmot2 3-phase PWM
can the arduino read the hall effect sensors?
probably requires assembler to get the sample rate high enough...
Bit of an odd question, but I need something that can do silver soldering without the loopy cost of oxygen.
Heck, My arduino reads resolvers. Hall sensors is trivial
And no, I can do Resolver and 10,000rpm in C
I would need some big power transisters or something to actually drive the motor?
Yes, but that part is easy.
andypugh: How does a resolver work?
I dunno if I can switch it back now...
I love this picture http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106229&d=1272769096
ewlsey: Read this: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc2592.pdf
The power modules are $20
andypugh, I was quoted $1400 for a new BLDC driver from Dyna Mechatronics, but the one I needed was no longer available
spasticteapot: A Resolver is a rather nice, rugged, infinite resolution absolute encoder. On the negative side they are not trivial to work with.
on my mill, the spidle motor was a BLDC and there was an encoder on the motor shaft to give velocity feedback to a D/A converter that would send a proportional gain signal to the motor control
are resolvers analoge?
They are a transformer, and entirely analog.
the good old days
Wikipedia explains better than I can
I have some pwm motor drivers that I want to use with EMC, but each driver takes a single pwm signal for both forward/reverse motion... I think I could use the pwmgen interface in single output mode, but i would to change something to accomodate for the ranges for forward/back. Any ideas?
BTW they are used often in factories because they are more rugged (encoders don't like dust)
[03:14:45] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolver_(electrical)
spasticteapot: how much silver soldering and how often?
And to work a resolver with an Arduino: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?ResolverToQuadratureConverter
I think propane blowtorches are hot enough
andypugh, that BLDC control is awesome, I wish I had know about it a year ago
I'd have to ask momma or sis tho, they're the silversmiths around here
normaldotcom: I am not sure I understand the question
that's like a hobby servo isn't it? one adapted to constant rotation
Are you saying that there are separate PWM inputs for each direction?
but power and control signal are separate on those
andypugh: My motor controllers take a pwm value, for half of the PWM spectrum, the motor turns in reverse, for the other half, it turns forwards
hopefully that makes some sense :-\
so it's just reversible PWM
Ah, yes, OK.
yes, pretty much
You can probably just add on a half-scale constant in HAL
that seems like it could work
normadotcom, what are you using to convert to analog output?
I think he is PWM all the way
mesa board or something?
yeah, pwm out of the parallel port
and the servo takes PWM input?
my motor drivers take pwm input
that is handy
can't you set the PWM range in HAL?
't actually written any hal code yet
You might want a deadzone so that you can actually stop, or is there a seperate "motor run" signal?
[03:22:40] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/deadzone.9.html
But yes, the HAL "scale" component takes slope and offset, so can convert spindle speed demand to offset demand
ok, scaling is looking like it will work
normaldotcom, can you run your motor with one wire?
I need to read some more documentation :D
yes, one signal wire
20ms frame length with 10-50% duty cycle range?
if so, you got a souped up RC servo
is there a motor stop range? or do you have to output a specific frequecy to stop the servo?
[03:25:24] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/scale.9.html
basically so, the controller is pretty much RC. It's not anywhere near optimal, but I have a few on-hand.
there is a stop range
are they velocity servos?
Nb magnets and mosFETs make these servos a lot more interesting than they used to be :) isobot/robocup etc
ewlsey: it's a common mod. take out the feedback pot and grind off the end stops. the pot is now a speed adjuster
my servos themselves are 32v/10.5a sanyodenki's, with quadrature encoders, I'm only running them at 24v right now though
hmm, must be a small machine for 300W servos, what are you building?
I'm attempting to build a cnc machine with parts I have on hand and cheap/free parts I've acquired :)
sounds like a good way to go
oi, my spindle is only 140W :)
I'm finding 3mm collet a bit constraining already
what are you gonna use for slides?
my original plan was to build a mini machine using only printer & scanner pasrts, but it got bigger
I'm thinking of using round shaft/sleeve bearings, but I'm still thinking about other options
MattyMatt, it will keep getting bigger I suspect
4th axis next :)
I know some people have had success with simple bearings in u-channel aluminum, but I'm not sure how well that works out
grooved bearings work nice I've heard
they're not cheap to buy tho
I'm going for rigid tapping, I need a braking resister though
I've had reasonable success with file cabinet drawer slides on my Y :)
I have never heard anyone say "my machine is too big, I am making a smaller one"
except Mr Intel
andypugh: That's a penis thing
And my eBay Boxford went strange, with 6 hours to go he cancelled all bids and withdrew the auction. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried to bidsnipe it.
I quite like the reprap mendel. it's tough enough to be a mill I reckon
a dremel pusher like mine at least :)
andypugh: probably had another buyer other than ebay
I made a virtual mendel in blender. it was almost like making one for real
Maybe, but I think he was foolish, it was probably going to go pretty high
andypugh no machine is too big. We have a few of this type at work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e47umuAS-EA
the working area is about the size of a large 2 car garage. Still not big enough
most guys stand on the work piece while it is being machined (large dies)
that's the kind of vid that made machine so big :)
ewlsey: Nice toy.
I was happy with the idea of 8" x 8" belt drive until I saw big mills eating steel
you can only run them quickly when cutting foam
looks like some bits are missing
where is the spindle?
8 meter travel!
I think they are modular. It is a machine my dad has talked about where the column sort of walks round the work
"* LOADING IS FREE AND IS BY OVERHEAD CRANE ONTO FLAT BED TRANSPORT*"
I wonder if the crane is cnc'ed :)
I don't think the crane is goint to do it in one shot
"Three Floor Plates" I think you can add more if you want a bigger envelope.
andypugh: I would buy this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Butler-Elgamill-Hi-Power-L-type-boring-milling-machine-/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280475980886#ht_1926wt_939
with whose money?
"gotta spend money to make money"
usually the other way around
If you need a UK contact, My dad is in that area (retired engineer, used to specify 14m gears...)
one begets the other
can he get me hired on at a formula one team?
David Browns have (or had) an Elgamill a bit bigger than the eBay one
I actually know at least two people in F1 teams.
there is Lotus team now too, but I think they are in Malaysia
sign me up andypugh!
In fact, they would have been on the HCVS run tomorrow, that I have decided to miss.
we tried having a team here in the US, it didn't go well
is it too late? would you need to drive to london?
I ought to get back in touch with the extremely cute redhead who worked on the Red Bull KERS system.
mm hell would be driving through london after no sleep, even on a sunday
be carefull andypugh, I always said "two engineers don't make a right"
I would need to leave now, which would involve a lot less Bowmore
the cutest redhead I ever knew had a thing for schumacher
micheal or ralph? (lol)
if you're not first; you're last
[04:00:54] <andypugh> http://www.sniffpetrol.com/
Bottom of the page
isn't it like 4:00 am in the UK?
do you people sleep?
only on the motorway
can one actually find metric tooling in the UK?
err, yes. In fact it's harder to find Imperial
I don't know what our problem is here in the states
I work for a Japanese company, metric all day long. Drives me crazy to use inches/pounds now
The US went metric in 1893, but not very wholeheartedly
Actually, it isn't about the units, any rational system is fine.
once China replaces us as the industrial leader we will probably change
the US system is far from rational...
But the Imperial system confuses weight and mass in a rather fundamental way, so you need lots of constants and conversion factors
actually, I think metric is messed up there
If F = M a with no extra constants, then all is well. So accept poundals or slugs and you are fine
take a crane, a metric crane is rated for 5 tonnes, mass. A US crane is rated for 5 tons, weight. Seems better to have a force than a mass
Metric is messed up in having a kg as the base mass, that should be the gram
we use pound-mass and pound usually, slugs are sort of antiquated
A metric crane _should_ be rated in Newtons, but saying what mass it can lift on the installed planet seems fair enough.
yeah, still seems strange from an engineering stand point
it is built in in the US system
No, it is glossed-over in the US syste
well people here are pretty dumb, so it's for the better
Personally I quite like inches, they are about the right size. A system of 16inches to the foot, 4096 ft to the mile etc would be nice.
[04:16:06] <ewlsey> http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-06/nasa-gets-heat-ditching-metric-system-new-shuttle-replacement
it is all what you are comfortable with
I work with a lot of Japanese guys, they sure as hell don't want to adopts inches
same with the Germans
I like the last line in the aritcle "0 is the same in English and metric"
It's not actually all that big an issue, as the inch is a derivative unit of the mm
ie, the inch is _defined_ as 25.4mm
yeah, problem is all those other units that come with inches
fluid ounces or degrees farenheit
Indeed. You can build a rational system from any base units (time, length, mass, charge) you choose. But Imperial isn't one. cgs is at least as good as si, and mks is fine too.
It's daylight. time to sleep
guys i think im compiling like every lunix module ever
sounds like fun
also alt key doesnt seem to be getting to irssi in xfce terminal
Valen: not really but the howto is like USE THIS CONFIG so i did so i guess its making every module ever
gives you good hardware support at least
its probably based of a stock ubuntu kernel
its fetched from kernel.org but i guess to work with ubuntu it has to be modular like that
so i rebuilt the old cnc machine into an xp thing for my mom, and put my emc dir on an sd card
and thought, dont just stick it in the little pc youll pull it out to use it then lose it
so ya thats what happened
how do i update this all
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
omg guys guys latency isnt going above 4991us
okay nm it went to 5033
also there is errors in the wiki howto commands where he does like something=usr/src/stuff
instead of /usr/src/stuff and it doesnt work
OMG GUYS GUYS I COMPILED EMC AND IT WORKED
* renesis ^5 renesis
hi sealive. if you do a fresh checkout of ocl, you will find a new cutter called CylConeCutter which is a truncated(flat) cone-cutter.
it seems to be working somehow
you could try it and report any bugs you find :)
gotta run now. c u later
atom d510 intel board w/ xubuntu 9.10 in tiny lianli box = win
wiki instructions are really good i got all the same errors, it already had all the fixes there
:/ back to dialup for a bit till the ISP gets there radio thingy working
at least I ran the second cable for my LAN and I can see all the computers from each other now :)
thanks to all that helped me sort that mess out
* MattyMatt sends jthornton 2 pringles cans
I think 303 cans work better
dogfood cans are considered most suitable for english weather
feels like English weather here as it has rained the last few weeks
I used to get load more programming done when I was paying for IRC by the minute
jthornton: did you get hit by the storms?
not much they passed a bit south I think... we got plenty of rain but no flooding
that is good
I'm up a bit from the high water mark so if it floods at my house it is really bad
Hey Guys, I am checking http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Adding_Custom_MDI_Buttons
and that works fine. except that the 'rapid to home' button is floating as a separate window, is it possible to get it in the axis window as shown on the screenshot?
He see it already, the tutorial on http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Adding_Custom_MDI_Buttons
is wrong, it doesn't mention adding PYVCP = panel.xml under [DISPLAY]
ries, the postgui.hal file needs to also be mentioned in the ini? that could be added to the wiki page also
awallin: I just added it to the wiki actually...
awallin: sorry, I added : To load the panel within axis add the following lines under the [DISPLAY] section:
The rest is good as far as I can see
yes, but postgui.hal also need to be in the INI
maybe under [AXIS] ?
let me see...
Yes you are right, I took that from a other tut.... will add that
good. if you just add more lines MDI_COMMAND = .... will they appear on halui.mdi-command-01 02 03 and so on?
let me check...
that was actually teh part I didn't understand fully yet
Ahh, so that is how it works...
I was already clueless where the 00 came from under halui.mdi-command-00
awallin: I added under a note : If you wish to add more commands, then follow up MDI_COMMAND commands will appear in the postgui.hal file in halui.mdi-command-01 02 03 and so on.
ries. ok. I had not used multiple MDI_COMMAND lines, but I am guessing if you have many they will apppear on pins 00 01 02 and so on. I haven't tested this.
I think that looks about right
awallin: yes that is the way that it works
ok, if you have the time/energy it is good to push these things from the wiki into the manuals at some point
can I issue multiple G code commands on a single MDI file??? for example G0 Z1; G0 X0 Y0; G0 Z0
ries: you can use O word and call external gcode file
micges: that was my second option... :)
halui can execute only one valid gcode line
awallin: are you on the pc
sealive: doing some of the compound cutters now
check the guy in the truck (and the next couple of videos too) ... http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/05/01/ar.scotland.tornado.katv?hpt=T2
Jymmm: when I press that link I get a pope video
Works for me.
copy and paste it in your browser
Jymmm: it redirects to http://edition.cnn.com/video/
ries: works for me
alex_joni: Jymmm I thik CNN was set to some local version... in a other browser it did work
what were you using, chrome?
Jymmm: chrome here
behold, some new insanely great cutter-classes for ocl: http://www.anderswallin.net/2010/05/composite-cutters-for-ocl/
* archivist hands awallin a gear cutter and runs before he gets hit
now how would we do surface-finish machining with a gear cutter...
we rotate the blank and take a cut :) and the tooth sides get a finish :)
it's probably not a good idea to draw the gear as an STL surface
and then have the CAM algo reverse engineer where you want the gear-cutter to go
some kind of canned cycle or "feature-based CAM" would be better
could be, but a user in here did show a gear being cut with an end mill, gear was a about a metre dia
he was from .de and later got injured not seen him for a couple of years
i've only seen those scraping-like or whatever machines for big gears. goes up and down and "shaves" it to shape
who uses cutters like these anyway?? http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/2008_02zmap/apt.jpg
I've never seen one
looks like an engraving bit
guys emc on d510 atom was totally undramatic there is nothing left to do i feel empty
maybe more will go wrong when i get geckos
renz0r: what processor is that? 330?
oh, it's a new processor
what motherboard then?
small one from intel?
The D510 is the successor to the popular Intel 330 dual core Mini Itx board
It is faster than the 330 based board but not a lot..
Is it cheaper?
andypugh: kinda the same
[19:37:31] <renz0r> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121399&cm_re=d510-_-13-121-399-_-Product
i got that one
then bought a dual parport pci card
and stole the parport dongle from it (there is a header on the mobo)
i put it in thise case...
[19:38:28] <renz0r> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112227&cm_re=lian_li_mini-itx-_-11-112-227-_-Product
so kinda tight, im running it with a 550W antec modular psu, so that doesnt get hot at all
the 120mm fan in the psu is the only fan for now but its right over the passive heatsink on the mobo
if its not enough in the summertime, ill put a 120mm on the side external =\
remote: Counting objects: 75269, done.
I hope you had a computer do that counting for you
yeah, it likes to count
I need more screens
2 more of these 20" lcd, all turned sideways
I am trying very hard, but this always evaluates as zero, any ideas?
(float)((deadtime * 2.0 * 65536.0 * 1.0e9)/(hm2->tp_pwmgen.clock_frequency * dds))
(deadtime is an int, =511
force it with ((float)deadtime)
that cast outside will be too late for the /
that's a point, cast everything right of / too
Still no joy. I might be misunderstanding the problem.
how big is dds?
it might be multiplying 2 ints there and overflowing
clock frequency is a u32
so /(float)((int64_t) (hm2->tp_pwmgen.clock_frequency) * dds)
It works everywhere else, the annoying thing is that this is just to get an error message to print right
that sounds suspect :)
It's entirely possible that the problem lies with me not understanding printf properly, too.
python's is worse :)
until tuples make sense
Yes. I need to cast the result to match the format character....
it needs to evaluate as float/float internally too
if in doubt, I cast every term
Now to go to the actual machine and see if it doing the right thing on the oscilloscope screen
I know float/int does an int division, so you do need to cast the right side
* PI / 180.0 <- the 180 must be a float literal there
*sigh* spent two hours soldering together the carrier board for my stepper drivers yesterday and I seem to have a mysterious short somewhere
poke around with a big needle
think like a dentist
how to do inflict pain on a PCB? :)
make your natural instincts pay
s/to do/do you/
my natural instincts tell me to smash the thing and start over :)
I seen subs labelled O<name> in docs. is that just in docs?
No, you can do it
[20:33:37] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?SubProgramFiles
ah. it doesn't look like I can use subroutines for rotated parts
MattyMatt: You might be able to cheat with a kinematics module
naah I'll just get blender to blurt a longhand file
gcode is disposable
if I'm cheap I can save a few cuts that way too
lay things out cutter width apart :)
andypugh: Hi, I've been following your comments about multi-phase PWM, a great project, thanks for your work. I've been wanting to try that myself, but unfortunately that project is too far down my list of projects right now, maybe later? So thanks for paving the way.
I what I think is a fully-working driver for Hostmot2 for the 3-phase PWM. I am about to send it to PCW for him to look over, then I guess I am looking for someone to commit it.
oh wow :) I was thinking 5 phase for fancy spindles. yeah 3 phase will be handy I bet
Ah, I can't help you there, I'm not a VIP either, LOL
was it 3000rpm that 5 phase stepper was doing on youtube?
yeah I think so
6" long nema 43 I think
that was impressive
under load or not?
no load, but it accelerated nicely
and braked, so it must have some torque
andypugh: Re your 3-phase driver, I have a set of drives that accept 2-phase PWM and then reconstruct the third phase internally by subtraction from zero. So on your proposed driver, can I "save an output" by only running two phases out through HM_2/Mesa/HAL?
MattyMatt: Thanks, that sounds interesting, I'll look for it on YouTube.
I can't find the vid
MattyMatt look harder
MattyMatt: That's OK, I'll stumble across it eventually.
* KimK goes looking
* MattyMatt tries stepper 5 phase 3600 rpm
* frallzor pokes MattyMatt
and in my history :) I've fouund it before obviously
what torque at 6300 RPM?
Not directly with the driver, no. But if the BIT file didn't declare the pins but had the same driver structure then it would work. I have already discussed the option of having 3-wire version. (The existing BIT files have 6 wires for the high-side and low-side drivers and a programmable dead-band)
frallzor did you get that pendant?
it was a very big motor (by my standards) and it accel & decel snappy. that says torque to me
MattyMatt: Re 5-phase stepper vid: And it's not one of these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIsSol5q_IQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-dfACjvC2k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRsSuTKWg2M
nope, spent money on tools
frallzor thing looked like something someone made in their basement anyways
better looking than most non-proffesional
frallzor I bought a Wacom tablet yesterday
KimK none of those. it was a just a closeup of a big blue motor with shaft in the air and tape to show rotation
I don't think you get to see the controller
it moved and sounded like halfway between stepper & servo
MattyMatt I think I've seen that video motor shaft was pointing up in the air?
I've had wacoms :) but I got tired of them, rather use my markers and sketch on a paper
wacom rules for online whiteboards tho
considering a iPad though for use as digital sketchpad
frallzor oh i prefer paper too but every now and again I have to do digital and this seems way better to me than a mouse
(or aiptek, for the low rent crowd)
frallzor I got the pressure sensitivity working but I'm not sure if I have the eraser absolutely correct yet
frallzor I like the pressure i think it is really nice
for cad I use a mouse :)
I tried it with Flash, and that didn't work out either
I couldnt stand cad with wacom
MattyMatt I mouse with my right hand but I am left handed and I can't draw too well with my right hand
good for drawing & painting, that's all
oh, and I'll link pressure to Z one day, for a whittling prog :)
I can't stand CAD period
you could charge people to do it online
then send them their results
You probably want to link pressure to Z-current. Or better still to a load-cell and servo loop.
maybe, but holding a steady pressure on the pen feels natural. that's pencil skills
I think i could screw around some more with the pressure sensitivity I thin now it'
I think i could screw around some more with the pressure sensitivity I think now it's 50% or 100%
so a simple relationship of pressure to Z, and let the human do the PID
The problem is that the difference in pressure between 3" and 3.01" is small.
but it was a bit of a struggle to get it working at all so for now I'm going to just leave it alone
this will only be for "art" :)
aka wasting good wood
woodwork for the wheelchaired
I suppose if zero pressure is .1mm above the surface and full pressure is 3mm below, and you are carving flat stuff, then it will work
yeah. only 512 levels on an aiptek anyway
Though a load cell need not be expensive, you could glue 4 strain gauges to the machine frame and wire them to an ope-amp. Job done.
wacoms new ones detect height and angle of pen
mine sort of does height
I can move the cursor if the pen isn't right on the tablet
its a Graphire3
I bought it at a yard sale for $10
ah, but it won't know precisely, and accuracy falls off as you move away or tilt the pen. the new ones are full 5 axis
Strain gauges are not at all expensive. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=0632180
yeah graphire are the cheap range that work like everyone elses
MattyMatt but you probably can't get one for $10
MattyMatt if you can still get them they appear to run $90 + shipping to me
I got an 18" x 12 " Aiptek sent from germany for postage :)
really I just wanted another scroll mouse out of the deal
I lost my pen for my 6" one. he had got a real wacom, so he was just sending me the pen at first
aiptek is fine. half the price of graphire
MattyMatt $5 ?
big real wacoms are massive price tho, especially with the airbruch addon
I've got an ancient wacom with serial port :)
they say they're easier to setup in Linux
I need to find a more expensive chinese food delivery place. The one I just used have a £10 minimum order, and that is more food than it is sane to eat.
I had stuffed flounder
* MattyMatt likes yesterday's chicken cashew
the cashews get soggy
not that i usually like that the first go round
my teeth are so bad I can't even handle a crunchy cashew
last time I did chinese i had shrimp and brocolli
any of you have any experience turning Google Sketchup-drawings into G-code? I am looking for a usable workflow.
borud hey when you find out you be sure to let me know OK?
I'm doing blender to gcode right now
MattyMatt hows that working out for you?
pfred1: I will probably be so excited about it I'll come here and make sure everyone knows :)
toolpaths translate perfectly into G1 strings
MattyMatt: what output format do you get from blender? DXF?
MattyMatt: or does blender do G-code?
I get gcode straight from blender :)
wow. I didn't know that
guess I should learn Blender then
MattyMatt it comes with the scripts?
no, that's what I'm writing
I have to try Blender again lasttime I tried it I couldn't do much with it but i hear it is much different now
ahh lovely monday
Sun May 2 17:36:20 EDT 2010
a toolpath from a blender curve isn't massively useful in itself
MattyMatt why not?
Sunday May 2 2010 -- 23:36:50 +02:00
now I need to make those automatically
I drew a complex pocketing operation by hand :) it needs some auto generation now
soon I can get my last bolts and nuts!
I have so much hardware
and I need to import gcode next
frallzor I pick it up on construction jobs for free
good for you
frallzor yeah you wouldn't like any of the hardware i have its all standard
1/4-20 up to 1-8
arc recognition would handy for these meshes. I wonder if I could tell it that dodecagon == circle?
pfred1: what sort of hardware?
frallzor its sick what they want to charge for hardware though
borud nuts and bolts mostly but i have like self drilling screws and whatnot too
borud lots of construction jobs I work if it hits the floor its garbage
cant really say its expensive here, unless the local place only has bags with 4 of the bolts i need in each
and they sure as hell wont have 50 bags
frallzor I prefer fabricating with hardware as opposed to welding anymore though it comes out a lot classier I think
sure it takes longe but I think it ultimately comes out more accurately
I sure find it easier to adjust than welded up stuff
andypugh: I tried to setup my encoder following stepgen via the hal you pastebin ed a couple of days ago... I could figure out how to make the transition from the stepgen to the encoder but not from the encoder back to the step gen. I don't see anyway to zero a stepgen count while I can zero the encoder count.
I was thinking that I could use two scale functions and two mux2's to capture position but I didn't get that far. Turns out I might not need to swap feedback sources anyway due to the machine design so I dropped it for now..
Thanks for that hal sample though. That mux2 trick to capture the position and hold is is pretty slick.
I don't think you need to zero either. If the sample-hold is set to sample on both edges of the selector, then it should always make the two things look the same.
wow. blender actually installed smoothly and started
and looks responsive
damn. now I have to learn it :)
borud oh it worked like 10 years ago
Though without knowing exactly what your setup is, it is hard to say.
yeah, but last time I tried it I tried it on Linux. and I wasn't surprised when it worked.
borud I think the codebase was originally an in house thing for a movie special effects house
I did some AutoCAD stuff 20 years ago, and then more recently I've been using Sketchup a bit.
I did tinker a bit with 3D Studio years and years ago, but I never had time to really learn it
I'm a bit embarassed to admit that so far the only computer drawing program i can do anything with is xfig
I've tried a bunch more just can't make heads or tails of any of them
do you draw machine parts in xfig?
I do sketches sometimes but if I really need ot draw somethign I break out my mechanical drafting equipment
you know t squares and triangles?
pfred1: you have one of those tables with an XY-ruler thing?
I even have a drafting machine but I don't really care for it and it sits on a shelf here
have no idea what they are called in english
but I took a course in school 22 years ago. mechanical drawing. mostly using that
of course, today I remember nothing
you mean like this? http://product-image.tradeindia.com/00236202/b/0/Drafting-Machine-Horizontal-Type-Front-Line-.jpg
borud: Are you wanting to design "art" shapes, or mechanical components?
pfred1: I thought that was called a "drawing board"
andypugh the flat part is
andypugh: both. I am still in the process of building my 3-axis machine
I think it is all a drawing board in the UK
andypugh: but I have some projects in mind
but yeah i have a board a table and an engineering drawing box
and a machine too
andypugh: one of them is to figure out a way to scan an old seal
mostly i use my box unless i really need a big print
andypugh: What, not a draughting (spelling?) board?
andypugh: and then blow it up and see if I can machine it in wood
You might want to look at HeeksCAD too. Or if you run Windows anywhere, I think that Alibre Design is pretty good. It drops down to a still perfectly usable free version after a month.
CAD is someplace FOSS can't seem to make much headway in
borud: There are ways to scan things in EMC2
pfred1: I think that is because CAD is too hard.
pfred1: well, there has been no motivation for the FOSS community to make headway in CAD
andypugh I think it is because FOSSers aren't too interested in it
pfred1: but I think that may be changing
It is one thing to have lots of points in space, but something else to make them all depend on each other in a consistent way
borud it is criminal what commercial software charges for some packages
pfred1: a lot of people are getting very interested in home manufacturing. and though it is only in the beginning stages it won't be too long before you will see a lot of low-end commercial hardware
borud when people bootleg their stuff I can hardly feel sorry for them really
pfred1: ...that people will want to tinker with
pfred1: well, software piracy isn't exactly black and white
pfred1: for companies like Adobe it is their most important marketing channel
I think Alibre ($100, sometimes) have realised that, and are looking at the high-volume low-cost concept.
andypugh yeah $100 isn't bad but some places it's like $1,000 and up!
Autodesk let anyone download a full version of Maya for non-commercial use.
pfred1: here in Norway a complete Adobe Creative Suite costs more than the monthly salary after taxes for a well paid design professional
I think they made Shrek with Maya
andypugh and you'd think they'd have made their money back just with that
pfred1: I can understand that a lot of CAM-software is expensive though
I was partially correct: Q: What software was used to create Shrek?
A: PDI, which created Shrek, mostly uses its own proprietary software (like its own Fluid Animation System) for its animated movies. However, for some elements it also took advantage of some of the powerhouse animation programs available to the public. This is particularly true with Maya, which PDI used for most of its dynamic cloth animation and for the hair of Fiona and Farquaad. Photoshop was also used quite a bit in the
department. There was also a touch of Softimage used in the movie. But most of the software used was PDI exclusive, created by its research and development team.
what I don't understand is why they do not offer free downloads for non-commercial use
borud I guess because they like money
(and I am not talking about things in the $100-$250 range. that is still well within "affordable")
pfred1: nah. I think it is because they are simple minded
pfred1: if you have a piece of software with a $10k price-tag then some kid playing in his basement pirating it doesn't represent a lost sale
borud I understand
pfred1: but if that kid learns the competitors package....that's a disaster, because that is what he'll get when he DOES have a use for a $10k piece of software :)
borud they say that is why Apple donated so much to schools years ago
I think that was Autodesk's idea with Maya. Let the dozen or so commercial users pay, but encourage kids in basements to learn how to use it. Of course kids in basments tend to run Linux and Blender.
pfred1: Freemill looks interesting.
andypugh: Autodesk learned their lesson
borud when I run stuff in wine my machine acts funny
andypugh: 10-12 years ago some executive at Autodesk had a major brainfart and decided that the universities needed to pay full price
borud Universities are money mills
andypugh: the local university here spent all of 3 seconds considering the deal
andypugh: before they told Autodesk to go screw themselves
andypugh: so Bentley Software stepped in and 3 classes of architectural students and mechanical engineers graduated after using MicroStation :)
I have just found that Maya runs on Linux too.
borud but could they get jobs?
frallzor potato, potatoes
I learned Autodesk Inventor at a University, and it got me a full-time job.
pfred1: I don't think that was ever an issue
pfred1: last time I applied for a job I didn't list a single programming language on my resume
borud I'm suprised being as acad is industry standard
pfred1: the odd thing is, I haven't seen anyone use acad in 10 years
pfred1: (Trondheim is a very engineering-heavy city)
borud what does everyone use today?
To be honest, parametric CAD packages are all pretty much of a muchness. Once you know what one can do, it is just a matter of finding where it is on another.
then again, I mostly know architects and industrial designers
pfred1: no idea. but I usually recognize the Autodesk-logo since I spent a lot of time using AutoCad years ago
can you tell diff to only take notice of .c anf .h files?
andypugh I've only ever diffed two files
at a time that is
I hadn't ever diffed any until 30 minutes ago. Now I have diffed several hundred more than I wanted to
there's a neat way to make it do a side by side display but I forget how to do it just remember doing it
I just want to create a patch file to send to somebody
But I only want the changes in the files I have edited, not the changes made by make
can't back the dir to pristine?
Possibly. I don't really know much about linux
while i have patched and see the value in it an all hey i have fiber optic I'm more likely just to get a whole new source tree today as opposed to a patch
I think you can issue some command to make a build tree pristine again
I tink it'd be defined in the makefile
you know sort of like make uninstall but different
I am getting random machine stops while I am machining. I receive no errrors or any feedback other then motion stops. If i hit the run key during one of the stops I receive an error stating that the machine is is auto mode. It only seems to happen when the spindle is on. Any ideas on what to look for?
jimbo sounds to me like your machine may be going to sleep on you or something
It can happen right after I start a cycle or half way thru the cycle.
servo with 5i20 card
Do the numbers on the screen stop moving too?
Yes the numbers on the screen stop as well
Anything connected to motion-feedhold or motion-feed-override?
jimbo - do you have a 7i33 (pwm converter) inline as well?
If was hardware I would expect a following errr
No I have not enabled motion feed hold or motion feed override. Yes I have a 7i33 as well.
I receive no following errors.
(true) only reaon I brought it up - my 7i33 kicked out today - logic works fine, analog doesn't.
(randomly coincidental day, of course)
I have been trying to sort this out for bout a week.
But andy's right; if it were HW, a following error should pop up pretty quick; it does on at least my X axis (Z is in test)
Which emc version?
Possibly worth an email to the mailing list to see if anyone recognises the problem.
might there be something in dmesg?
2.3.0 seems a bit old...
I was using 2.5.0 same problem
I htink thats what i have and its only a few months now
skunkworks you must sell cell phones for your day job or something ...
whats that antique you have why it must be a month old by now!
I vaugly remember talk about some problem with the mesa watchdog biting under certain circumstances.. but if you had the same problem with 2.5..
not petting the watchdog is bad
but I might be talking out of my a$$ again
skunkworks thats what watchdogs do if they're not pet they shut the system down
maybe they're missing pettings due to overtiming?
If you missed the petting of the timer EMC should pop an error as the m5i20 goes off line I would think.
have you looked at dmesg for $hits and grins?
I will take a look
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
You don't have a cat that is pressing the "0" key for 0% feed override?
(no, that is 100% thinking about it)
No cat or other critters around....
It isn't spindle-coordinated motion that has lost the spindle speed signal? That waits very patiently? Or a similar thing with spindle-at-speed?
No I have not tied the spindle into the system yet.
It stops at different parts of the same programme?
Toolchange window popping up in the background maybe?
Yes it stops at random parts of the program. I have checked for that and it is not there.
In the middle of G1 moves or similar, rather than anything unusual?
Just straight x and y axis moves and sometimes on the movement of z.
Sounds extremely odd. Do you want to pastebin the HAL file? Not that I expect that to help at all.
* skunkworks is thinking noise...
[23:43:15] <jimbo> http://pastebin.com/iwMts6Lc
As In ground loop noise or high freq noise?
skunkworks: Hi, I'm way behind on keeping up with the list, so I'm not current on your accupins, how's that going?
No, I don't see any smoking gun in the HAL file
jimbo: How big is your spindle (HP/kW)?
jimbo: And what kind of drive does it have?
KimK: have not had a chance to play with it.. Ended up spending most of saturday hooking up the heavy wires to all the motor start relays. what a pain. but that part is done.
Ah, yes, the whine of a happy hydraulic pump. What was that thing, 5HP?
I remember I have seen a window in emc where you can set halpins true and fale to test things, but forgot the name, anyone?
Machine-->Show Hal COnfig
Though that way is a little clunky, you have to type setp <pin name> <value> in the window at the bottom
andypugh: I have seen that, but how do I switch pins from 1 to 0 ??
as of now - it has 2 main hydraulic pumps.. both 5hp. (we think can lower that now that the servos are not running off of the 1200psi one.) the other one is a 450psi runs most everything else.
I didn't red the second one :)
It's actually nicer to do it from the command line, as then you get tab-completion and history
2 hp bridgeport with a Teco FM50
ie you can just open a terminal one (or an extra one if you started emc from the command line) and type halcmd setp <pin name> <value>
I have been doing an awful lot of that today.