telmnstr sure you would have to make each coil output
never changed those caps
tlab well in hold thats the sound is the PWM just exciting the motor
tlab can't be anything else being as nothing else is going on
those caps are going to change my decay speed yes?
1 parallel port can run 2 axis
they'd change the frequency of the chopping
how often it goes up and down
too low and you overheat obviously as you're not chopping enough
but there is always an allowable duty cycle range
like on the TB6560s its from 100 pf to 1000 pf
I just calculated for mixed decay and used the resistor and cap I needed
strange mixed I'd think would just be a bit set input
the caps whould just clock the PWM oscillator
the sound comes from the motor, once I swear a faucet was running
you've seen the current waveforms showing the sawtoothed chop right?
no for my steppers
smaller caps would make it a finer chop larger a longer one
but also you could see how feeding a stepper motor a sawtooth could make it make some noise too right?
well there ya have it!
stepper motors are basically speaker drivers in the round
so I just hook a scope up and look at it?
well I need a current probe
maybe you have one?
not for my scope
its on my list of things to aquire now
though maybe the sawtooth would show up in voltage I never really looked
PWM is just noisy
hey when you built your drivers did you throw a fairly good sized electrolytic on the driver IC to soak up some of the noise?
like say 470 uF
568 bucks for current probe gawd
it makes a huge difference
bypass your motor driver with a 470 uF cap
like just go from the high input to the gorund as close as yo ucan to the IC
I have 100uF on it
ah marginal try more
it has to soak up the kickback from your motors
I've found 470uF to be about rock bottom look at all driver boards they all have a fat cap on them
and thats what its there for to soak up EMF noise
it took me a long time to figure that out
I asked this a while ago but I seem to have lost my notes - what's the G code or M code so I can synchronize a event on the "spindle" with my motion?
alex_joni: Are you around?
OK... for whoever else is around .. I thought I might catch alex... alex reported a bug which I believe is biting me.. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2985881&group_id=6744&atid=106744
Looks like alex has a possible fix for it but is waiting for Seb to verify it?? I don't quite understand the bug fixing process...
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
I'm getting period following errors on 2.5_pre (the master git version) when jogging. Doesn't seem like it should be possible to get following errors when using a Hostmot2 stepgen... but I am managing to do that.. :-(
pastebin your ini and hal files
OK.. one moment..
this bug isn't going to be triggered by jogging
ini file : http://pastebin.com/sG1W1zau
hal file: http://pastebin.com/tD9pAx84
I had a problem with a following error before but I was bumping into the max velocity... that isn't happening this time though.. this is popping up on jogs almost every time and once in a while on programmed moves
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-04-27.txt
Dave_911: ferrors on jogging usually means an accel constraint violation, but I see you have stepgen maxaccel set to zero, so that's not it. maybe a halscope plot would tell us more.
So I should put ferror on the scope with position? And see what happens?
try joint-vel-cmd, ferror, ferror-lim, and ferrored. trigger on rising edge of ferrored, and see what happened beforehand
OK... that makes sense let me see what I can do here
if you can put the trigger point near the right side of the screen you'll get the most history.
[03:00:07] <Dave911> http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2035/graphih.png
Here is the graph.. looks like something is killing jogging and that is the cause of the following error..
what do you think?
set your scales so that you can see every servo cycle, and you can see the ferror and ferror-lim. I bet they are nonzero but you're set to 1 inch/div
Well I increased the vertical scale on f-error and you are right. f-error increase until it faults out
one moment ....
[03:17:27] <Dave911> http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3006/graph2z.png
Sorry for the delay ... I'm hopping between machines ... and I don't know gimp for cropping but I think I am going to learn!
Dave911 the tool that loos like an exacto knife
well it looks like a rectangle with a triangle on top of it
OK.... thanks... I'll look for that ....
So many software packages .. and so little time ... ;-)
be careful once you select then click in it its cropped though gimp has awesome undo
only limited by system memory
the corner handles work differently now than they used to I even don't know how ot move the selection anymore
ok, it's falling behind during the whole jog
Wierd eh? How the heck did I do that??
It is like I killed the following for the step gen??
I can do it on all three axes I have setup..
if you mouse over the joint-vel-cmd where it is jogging what is its value?
you're just jogging at 1.0 in/sec but your max is 30 in/sec?
Yep, you are right... 60 ipm
My jog speed max in axis is showing 60 ipm
I think there is a setting in the hal file for the jog speed but I was going to take it off a pyvcp screen
Do you think that jogging that slow is causing the problem?
no, but I sure don't have a better theory
I think I had this running ok - I think - before a bunch of hal changes..
I don't see anything wrong.
What is also strange is that I can run a program on this setup that peaks at 1300 ipm and it runs without fault???
seems like long and steady moves are the losers here
are you using a 7i47?
I haven't checked latency on this PC since I was only running a servo loop with the 5i20 card
Yes... a 7i47
I think you're going to have to find seb or pcw to help on this one - I don't see anything wrong but clearly it's not working right
this is asking for a step rate that's easily reachable with your settings
Right ... I'm actually going pretty darn slow compared to the full speed range
yep I agree
sorry I couldn't help
OK .... I'll try and see if I can chat with PCW tomorrow...
No problem.. I really appreciate you looking at it.. :-)
Perhaps I'll take out some hal stuff and see if I can make it go away..
well save these files before you screw with them - if it's a bug, reproducing it is more important than mysteriously making it go away
Good idea .. I'll save everything off first before editing stuff...
I just did a git clone again to a different directory also. I want to run it on branch 2.4 and see if I get the same results
I am not sure how you can make sure you have the right firmwares - ask seb
it's more likely a firmware problem than an emc problem - and they are packaged separately now
The bit files etc?
The one I have is rather unique but Peter said that Smithy uses it regularly.. so I was hoping it was solid
Actually the more I think about this... this really popped up after I added a Pyvcp panel.. hmmmm...
Well.. I'll snapshot these files and then start trying stuff out ..
I'll let you know what I find out..
ok thanks - and goodnight
Thanks again ... and goodnight
ries_ is now known as ries
cradek: about the guy with two spindles... did you give him a response as how to turn on/off the second one? what m-code to use?
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
uggh. too early :/
Als is now known as alSMT
is there a simple way to add a incremental X move to the absolut Z move on a lathe? U and W are for that, if they are used for a second turret on emc, how could i quickly/easily add a "counter taper" in emc?
do you mean you want Z to move like g90 but X to move like g91 in the same move?
cradek: yes, w/o say adding a second absolut X, larger by amount of the taper move needed, which would do the same, people seem more comfortable working with a U-.001 if their part tapers +.001 towards chuck
cradek: I did figure out that there is only one way the turret fits on the spline shaft and the adjustable stop be in the correct position and not leak air :)
morficmobile: hmm. in emc you have to program all words in a block as g90 or all words as g91
say Z.1; X3.456; Z-5.U.001; X5.; Z-5.5; now vs Z.1; X3.456; X3.457 Z-5.; X5.; Z-5.5;
morficmobile: I understand what you want - but emc doesn't handle U that way
cradek: just checking what i have to get people used to, making sure i don't force them to stick to absolut X just because i missed something
yeah your only other alternative is G91 X.001 Z-5.1
single line command will do, then go to G90 for next line.
I think (optional) incremental UVW like some lathes would be cool (for mills too) but I haven't bothered to do it and I don't know if anyone else is interested.
it would have to be an option, of course, because it interferes with having real UVW axes
there isn't a 'runout' g-code? ;)
I don't know what that means
would something like that give you the ability to cut tapered threads?
JT-Work: it wouldn't give you any new motion - only a new way to specify it
JT-Work: (and we can already cut tapered threads)
cradek: could always check on list, it's a convenience option, since people can concentrate on .001" taper == U.001, once people are used to it, it's particularly hard to "make them go back" to "absolute X +.001"
I never ask "does anyone want ___??" unless I feel like writing it
with the G76 cycle?
hell I don't ask if I feel like writing it either - I just write it :-)
JT-Work: nope, you have to use G33 if you want tapered
Does anyone want a kick in the ass?
elmo401: Yeah, I saw that.
but he might like it too much
Looking at EMC HAL dox
I'm new to this
everyone was new at one point
My first project is converting a laser engraver off of it's old hardware to run on EMC
I'm debating trying to look into using a USB microcontroller as the two channel stepper controller and PWM generator
usb is not real-time
Not with EMC you won't =)
That's what I'm wondering
wonder no more ;)
I guess what I'd end up with is the microcontroller doing all the motion
Im thinking of using it as the stepper controller
$2 atmel could drive 4 motor driver ICs
which I have on the shelf
Because I need step/direction inputs
cradek: is it at all possible to have an M code that would cause a rereading of the tool table?
I'm not sure if I need/want microstepping
telmnstr: doesn't the existing hardware have that?
morficmobile: why need to reread it?
the existing hardware has 4 motor driver ICs
and I think they are wired to the MCU
so I thought about hacking onto that
but I thought about it and I don't know what the company did to the board
they sanded off some of the chips
elmo401: if a GUI would allow an operator to make incremental adjustments (and only shows him the incremental adjustments) modified the tool table
elmo401: "wear offsets"
oh these pico controllers are rockwell
Can EMC handle stepping the motors? I know I will burn up I/O lines
well O lines
telmnstr: saned off some of the chips? weak...
elmo - yea the engraver was a Meistergram, but they built it using the guts from a Roland plotter
morficmobile: can't you edit the tooltable on the fly?
Kind of funny
randomly, I had a similar plotter sitting next to it, hoping to use it for making PCBs
telmnstr: I have steppers. it works well ;)
[13:53:14] <telmnstr> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ethanotoole/4553875627/sizes/l/
that's the engraver
kind of torn apart. Late 80's tech I'm told
morficmobile: every time you call the tool offset it has no idea what it was before, it only knows the current value. no need to re-read it. it reads it only when you call it.
telmnstr: looks like fun :)
It wouldn't be hard to use one lpt port for driving two steppers then use a 2nd one for pwm of the laser
telmnstr: are you going to engrave (raster)? or are you going to do vector?
I'd love to do both
telmnstr: does the laser work?
Jymm - yes, but a friend has it. He gave me the engraver, and is going to give me the laser for it
25 watt co2
Also planning to build a mill. Looking at parts to do a 3' x 3'
telmnstr: some have done raster with emc - but it isn't something it does out of the box..
Looking at acme lead screws, ebay slides, etc
you have 9 I/o on a parallel (correct me if I am wrong) no need for a second parallel port
skunkworks - if I use a windows app to generate the raster file, then bring the raster file to EMC, can it cut it?
You don't want todo raster with a laser, you want to do vector
there are 8 data bits that I remember, then 4 ins that are inverted and 4 non-inverted? Or am I wrong?
Well what if you need to burn someone's photo on toast or something?
telmnstr: Well you can do that, but it'll take like 50 minutes.
and then use vector to cut the toast into a heart shape
for a 3"x3" area
telmnstr: here, take a look http://cuteminds.com/images/stories/emc2/hal2.jpg
those pins are used
Yea PC parallel ports are crap. There is the std mode, ECC mode and ECP mode
telmnstr: You dont want ballscrews with a laser, you're just moving a mirror around, not a tool, nor are you making contact with the material either.
Jymm - no the laser already has belt drives and everything. It's a Roland xxx-1200 plotter basically
I was looking at it
Jymmm: he said acme.
then was like "Why is there an extra serial connector inside.... This looks like it could be used on it's own"
elmo401: doens't matter
telmnstr: so your working on both a laser and a roland engraver?
and the more I thoguht about it, I grabbed the plotter sitting on the table and turned it over, and noticed the board in the engraver matches the one in the plotter in terms of connectors and dip switches
jymm - yes, have the engraver, and have some parts for a plotter
I've been planning this for like 7 years now :-)
is TiAlN that new coating that's slippier than teflon?
telmnstr: Eh screw the engraver, get the laser working =)
Yea laser is first ,just have to build a simple two axis stepper thing
come to think of I, I too have a plotter :)
I googled it and saw people saying emc + rtos kernel + laser works
never did work with winXP. so old Roland didn't offer drivers for it.
doing the PWM on the laser
telmnstr: does it have manual or automatic focus (Z axis)?
elmo - I used the Roland with XP
Jymm - It's a laser? Is there a focus
telmnstr: damn right there is
I fired a HeNe thru it and it was looking pretty dirty
elmo401: the tool offset is read from the tool table (file) everytime there is a G43? i thought it was read once, and you can tell it to reread everytime you are stopped
I'd say it's manual focus
the Z stage moves up and down
telmnstr: Ok, so the table "Z" is manual?
yes. But that's a stepper motor away from not being manual
the tool table file is only reloaded when you issue the 'reload tool table' command in manual mode
telmnstr: Ok, then that's good (I see the handle on the pic)
Need to clean the optics
well the first surface mirrors and stuff
No standard silver ones
but with lasers they put the material on the front of the glass
6-pen HP 7475A Plotter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyJHGQ3FNrA
Does EMC support it?
so there isn't a ghost reflection from the glass surface, in addition to the silver on the back of the glass
the plotters are rs232 and take straight g code I think
No, ploters use HPGL/2
HP plotters take HPGL which is only remotely like gcode
morficmobile: that is a crazy way to have a program. read the file once? Every machine I worked on read it on the fly, when it was called.
if emc could push a plotter, I could plug the laser engraver right into it
ohhh yea sorry
they really don't have anything more to do with emc than (say) a laser printer
elmo401: unless i grossly misunderstood what i was tolf
cradek: really? but it is vector drawing, no?
basically the laser engraver had a board that got data from the PC, then I think it send hpgl/2 commands to the plotter board to drive the XY and then commands (not sure how) to another board that did PWM to drive the laser
elmo401: sure, it's XY - if you tore out all the electronics you could control the motors directly with emc
the PWM board is 2 wires running to the main board, so I'd guess it's i2c or something
and I'm working on tearing it all out
to control the motors with EMC
* elmo401 grabs a screwdriver
telmnstr: save teh laser controller at least for now
if you want a plotter, probably better to use it as-is
jymm - yea, I save everything
I was eyeballing the ram chips thinking they might be useful with some vintage arcade game repairs
telmnstr: BTW, your work benches are WAY TOO FSCKING CLEAN!!!
too bad I can't. nothing sends proper signals to it. I can do straight lines but once a circle is about to be drawn it goes crazy.
jymm - It's a hacker space shared by some friends
It got dirty once and cofounder flamed email list and it was bad
telmnstr: I don't care, STILL TOO FSCKING CLEAN!
Jymmm: my thoughts exactly! too much space and too clean :P
what do you mean nothing sends proper signals to it? surely any software that knows how to plot to it can plot to it.
I can see over 4 sq ft of desk real estate, WTH?!
Sorting vectors... 1% ... 2% ...
I had an older winXP box and CadKey. Tried to plot some drawings. it would do the surrounding box and a few lines of the piece but mucked up when a curve was about to be drawn.
[14:10:56] <telmnstr> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ethanotoole/4494360744/sizes/l/in/pool-1294062@N25/
It *doesn't* look like that anymore
that should be FULL of junk :P
elmo401: oh so your software is buggy
I can still see floor!
the lab is 3800 sqft
front area is meeting area, hang out area, another meeting area, work area one (
telmnstr: That's just oh so wrong!
soldering/electronics), work area two (heavier machiens + large projects) then upstairs is the server racks, AV racks and cubes
Vintage cray supercomputer, fully managed AV stuff
Though, the folding camping chair is a nice touch.
[14:12:48] <telmnstr> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ethanotoole/4363293472/in/pool-757labs/
there is a bar grade foosball table front right now (near pepsi machine)
trying to add ethernet to the pepsi fridge (sorry its not a machine, it's a glass door fridge)
telmnstr: where is this place?
telmnstr: is t part of a school or something?
Nope, called a hackerspace
got the place for $1000 a month and let people we know chip in $50/month to join
who owns it?
to work on projects and stuff
me and a friend started it, there are now 9 others
there is a number of public events tho
microcontroller nights, boardgame nights, Python and ruby groups meet there
that sounds awesome
ah, that's kinda cool
General term is "hacker space"
where is the geek density high enough to support this?
(wish it was here)
cradek - there are hacker spaces in a number of cities
what city you in
With all the "For Lease" signs I see driving around here, that wouldn't be a bad idea.
I know - but just the big ones
telmnstr: Do you have liability insurance ?
There is one in Richmond VA Washington DC Raleigh NC Baltimore MD
jymm - no
we have one: http://hacklab.to/
cradek: Don't you live near cows or something?
We're still more in the getting off the ground stage
Jymmm: I can't quite see a cow from my front door, but very close
[14:17:04] <telmnstr> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/List_of_Hacker_Spaces
have to go to the top of the hill
Never heard of a hackerspace before. With all the serious geeks around here, that wouldn't be a bad idea.
sounds a lot like "tech shops" (shared machinery)
yeah, just w/o the machinery
tech shop is just a bigger more commercial version
most hacker spaces have makerbots it seems
ahh, found out what was wrong with my plotter. It is a 25-pin RS-232, not a parallel :/
elmo - yes, you hook to to rs232 and set baud, and can actually ascii upload the file and it goes!
It's funny seeing it print the windows test page, colors and all
I wonder if my pens still work.
how long does it take to print the test?
A minute or two
lol... Pirate Party http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/Main_Page
I just made my first cut with the jog buttons. all is well
[14:26:55] <Jymmm> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/HackerDojo
128 Members @ $100/mo = $12K gross monthly revenue less rent, utilities, insurance, that's still roughly $8K monthly for toys and some salary.
Heck, for thse that can't afford to pay, could just staff the place for their membership dues.
$100/mo is way too much for round here.
* Jymmm would make cradek an honorary bovine member!
you milking the joke Jymmm ?
MattyMatt: Well that's why I said they could work as staff members.
that'd be 99 staff and 1 member then, around here :)
the local Model Engineering Society is moribund. the organisers must be aging
I'd take that over and ditch the Model from the name
With all the free crap you can get around here, all I'd really need is the building and utilities.
Oddly our space has power included
they didn't know about the Cray computer
and the aluminuium smelter
but everything is under power management
We were kidding about CNC/plastic extruding molds and making aluminum figures
I was thinking it might be interesting to build CNC machine and switch a motor tool for plastic extruder tool and try to do do plastic printing with the same XYZ frame
that's done all the time, by people who haven't extruded their extruding machine yet, just the head
I kept looking at the maker bot
yeah, the major diff is extruders are best made with belts for speed
machine tools use screws for torque and accuracy
the laser engraver is all belts as well
so your extra plotter would make a fine repstrap
I kept looking at the makerbot/reprap thinking there has to be a easier way
which is the term given to a reprap that isn't made in a reprap :)
extruding a machine probably is easiest, if you have one already
I'm trying to tool up the clubhouse
I just kept thinking there must be a less complex way of making the reprap (less parts)
I like the meccano style :)
MattyMatt: there is probably an Engineering Society in the area, may not be able to drop the 'Model' from the name.
it's all either printed or very cheap parts. assembling it is just fun
yea I hear ya
the cost adds up tho
I'm about to mill some reprap parts, and I think I can put kits of hardware together cheaper than people are paying
I need a wood project... my mill has been idle for far too long
* elmo401 hangs his head in shame >_<
do reprap parts then :) well defined spec and market
I have endmills 1/2" (flat, bull and ballnose, 90deg chamfer) 1/4" (flat, ball, 120deg, 90deg)
demand still outstrips supply, even tho more printers are coming online
MattyMatt: any pics of what you have done?
a woodruff cutter and outside radius cutter (whatever it is called)
wood is in the vice for first part. my test cut showed me I need an endmill with side flutes rather soon so I've ordered one. 3mm is all I can use
you'd need sth to make 4mm & 3mm holes. or drill them
theres a few short slots
that's the only thing wrong with this spindle so far. 1/8" biggest collet
I've seen 6mm threaded tools, and been thinking if I could make an adaptor to the collet nut thread
2 specially bought taps. that comes out of my Proper Spindle Kitty
this machine moves so well, that after my next round of axis stiffening measures, I'm gonna try brass
TiAlN coated endmill was 2x the price of carbide. I didn't think it was justified for wood :)
but if that's the coating I read about in New Scientist, it has useful qualities in any material
TiAlN sounds like a traditional alloy for hardness tho, not a miracle nanocoating with I think had Boron in
I should be writing gcode for the pocket in the reprap extruder
So assuming I want to interface 2 steppers to EMC, does the EMC modules actually have a mode for driving steppers straight off the port? Actually walking them?
The steppers are just moving belts, not real weight, and I've got buffer chips I'm sure
I saw nice 2A stepper drivers for £9 on ebay
I bought some sorta chinese made board for 4 axis from ebay for the actual mill
me too :)
Someone on here last night said the driver ICs are cruddy tho
did you get the 2A or the 3.5A one?
I'd have to look tonight, I'm at work
I think it's 3.5A max
I only know the 3.5A, toshiba TB6560. very nice so far. no complaints
that's the 2A version
hopefully pin compatible with the bigger one
one of those would run the plotter nicely too
Well I was hoping not to have to use a board that big
I mean, the roland board drives the motors with 4 standard DIP ICs
I thought like that when I started
I had an inkjet printer, and an old dot matrix
the best approach is probably the one I was told. find the step & dir signals on those chips, isolate them from the roland controller and pring them to a DB-25 for a parport cable
they dont have step and dir
they need another chip to do that
in the current case, the cpu is doing it I think
they are just the H bridge driver ICs
if that wasn't the case, it'd be rocking by now :-)
arent they controlled by PWM
old plotter. it'll be unipolar probably
pin compatable doesn't matter, so long as you're reading the right manual on the CD when you're doing stepperconf :)
Thats why I was thinking
if EMC can do the stepping in software I could just use two line drivers to isolate the motors / provide more current and rock with that
but stepperconf doesn't offer the facility for 4 wire driving
my geek roomate years ago made a X/Y mirror setup using two steppers + dos app for writing letters with one of my lasers
8 transistors on the lpt port was all it took
I wish an expert would step in now and say yea or nay, but AFAIK you'd have to do the software stepper in HAL
I think it damaged my laptops parallel port too
it most likely would :)
I could get one of these L327 or whatever it was 239 or something chips
Im still thinking I might just make a two channel stepper controller with an arduino
could wire up a LCD with two counters on it too
the rapman board has an LCD
rapman? Is that a drum machine or a sampler
the stepper drivers are off-board on repraps tho. they use individual drivers. one board per motor
oh that's sexy
Matty - I was telling my friend
"WHY DO THEY DO THAT!?"
It looks so sloppy
it's handy when they blow
socket the part that blows
yeah, that's the driver board
you can't socket the driver chip itself. that's well bolted and soldered to handle high current
This rapman is sexy
oh then make the drivers a plug in card
Just eliminate the piles of wires and stuff
flexibility > convenience
and flamability :) the other side of the triangle
yeah you might one extra high powered driver for one sticking axis with a bigger motor
I bought an eprom programmer when I thought I was going to use a printer mobo :) waste of money
so microstepping is needed or no?
it's wanted, if not absolutely needed.
it'll make the motors much smoother and quieter.
So the drivers I have support it somehow
I'll probably make an atmel program to take the step+dir from EMC, then drive the stepper controllers
and potentially give more accurate positioning, but the laws of physics fight against that
atmel is probably overkill. a PIC or PAL or 2 or 3 gate chips would do
but atmel is nice to programm and costs 1,2Eur
ah OK, that's cheap :)
you can do it via BASCOM basic and 4 Resistors
and teh 1000 , 1100, 0100, 0110, 0010, 0011, 0001, 1001 half-stepping cycle is easier in software
telmnstr: why dont you use simply L297/298
he already has the hbridges
thats 2Eur and it works full power mode
if they aren't 6 wire motors
half step enable sleep
what is he going to do milling with a plotter
no laser with one, extruder with the other
ah laser cut or laser Exposer
extruder what is this for
I'd buy two of these, but I'm turning into a torque addict http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stepper-Motor-Controller-Driver-Board-Bipolar-Dual-Mode-/280494050714
hacking the existing driver is probably best if you want to use the original motors with the original belts
these are nice milling without a pc
yeah jog buttons :)
so you can confiuse the EMC
always nice to have
I can confuse EMC easily enough by stalling my motors
are they kit or ready to go
ready to go. from china
the heat sink is not large for more then 5min milling at 2A
probably the LM358 will also slow down the speed
the idea to use a rectifier is not good for the l298
it will probably break after some minutes
there has to be some BYT
I can't even read the numbers on the chips :)
very fast diodes needet for eatch cost at 80cent or more here is 40cent for 4low
so its china made -> nice for a (very)short time
"This industrial designed product is ideal for many uses. Perfect for student experiments, prototypes, or just DIY projects. " that's carefully worded :)
on my homepage there is a anymation of the L297/298 board from Eagle
"industrial designed" != "designed for industry"
I have 14 of these other things
L620x or something
they are simialr
yes it is but not to drive with "A at longer time or for realy acurat steps in short periode
the L62xx is better then the L298
oh is it?
I had bought a bunch in 2007 for a project, and I can't remember what it was
probably a cnc
yes the inbild curent detectors are match faster so the head is lower
if they are the ones I'm thinking of, they only give 05A but that's probably plenty
no more then §A
the L297/298 is the low price high voltage ,everything changeble aplication
it's not the one I'm thinking of then L6219 I've got
I was thinking about using a microcontroller to emulate two l297s
and maybe try to drive the 4 chips on the original Roland board
Wish I could find schematics for it
(the roland controller)
that cheap chinese one uses atmel :)
I found $15 controllers but they dont microstep
yeah if it's a 8 pin chip with 6 io lines, do that
This is the plotter that this company used to make the laser engraver:
[15:51:28] <telmnstr> http://obrazki.elektroda.net/35_1231683763.jpg
telemnstr, how big are your motors?
small, 5.25" floppy drive head movement sized
get some EasyDrivers
p.s., those motors are weak.
[15:52:13] <telmnstr> http://obrazki.elektroda.net/29_1231683596.jpg
THATS THE BOARD!
They sanded down the chips that say Roland
[15:52:35] <bill2or3> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/easydriver-stepper-motor-driver-v3-assembled-p-219.html?cPath=9
sparkfun has them too.
I just got the seed studio logic analyzer board yesterday
the Sump board?
cool Z80 cpu
my mill was scheduled to arrive today
Yup. It arrived. I had ordered it a while ago
what's the verdict, good?
the shipper called this morning to ask when they could deliver it tomorrow
I was totally looking at these easydrivers, I didnt see where it said microstepping, but I do now
they're a lower-powered version of the chip that's on the reprap 2.3 stepper drivers.
cradek: I sent Peter an email and he responded already! I also verified the ferror problem exists in the sample 5i20 config in the git master. For my app I just cranked up the ferror limit to 1.0 and I think that will work for me as the error doesn't seem to accumulate as badly when running a program.. don't know why.
Perfect for the engraver
I'll buy two of them
if you heatsink them they'll run a bit cooler.
protip: if you unplug/plug the motor while it's on, it *WILL* blow the driver chip.
okay I see people saying that
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
I have a question on getting a USB gamepad to be recognized by EMC2. Is anyone familiar with this?
grommit: see hal_input
I created a file for the permission issue, but no worky
nevermind. A reboot was required.
Ate too much chinese for lunch. Ugh
Ordered two EasyDriver stepper driver thingys
Now I need to find out what it takes to make protective window for laser engraver housing
microcontroller project idea: digital PWM filter accepts low-frequency pwm or pdm (like that generated by emc software pwmgen), producing high-frequency pwm that tracks the duty cycle of the input
microcontroller project idea 2: external latency measumrement. microcontroller reads toggling signal (e.g., from emc 'charge-pump' component) and computes period and jitter to be displayed on LCD or sent via serial interface
i want to build a servo amp that does EMC -> PWM -> Servo rather than EMC -> PWM -> Analog -> PWM -> Servo
brushed servo? you should compare notes with skunkworks.
ah, that's different
well, more poles I believe
yes, rather more complicated. multiple poles and you also need hall sensor or resolver feedback to drive the right poles. to run a dc brush servo forward, you can just hook it up to a DC bus..
right, the amp would have to have an input to know which direction to commutate, but that could be an output from EMC as well. EMC would know that from the encoder feedback
andy pugh has also been expressing interest in this. In his case I think he wants to interface with a Mesa 7i39 (so he's not building the power section) but other parts of his work could be relevant for you.
cool. will keep that in mind. but unfortunately the servo's I have in mind are sitting in a card board box right now...
mikegg: Andy Pugh expressed an interest in direct control of brushless servos I think he was planning on using a MOSFET or IGBT module
it makes sense doesn't it? why use a digital signal to generate an analog signal only to turn around and use it to generate another digital signal
I think its an interesting idea, HAL could do all the fancy math and us a really dumb amp (in the simplest case just a IGBT module with overload current protection)
alas, I R mechanic...
Well it really is mechanical, just pulling the magnetic rotor around with the right field in the stator...
[18:55:50] <alex_joni> http://www.surplex.com/de/auktionen/alle-auktionen,auktionsartikelliste,used,metallbearbeitung-41,2,drehmaschinen-278,4,kompletter-maschinenpark-einer-automatendreherei-117,15,1.html
can I have one or two for xmas :)
that okuma just looks scary. no thanks.. :)
MarkusBez is now known as MarkusBec
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
what's an electronic key?
[20:26:43] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,38/id,2723/lang,en/#2723
Sounds like he might mean "relay"?
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
id guess valve
is someone here?
ok I'm leaving ;)
there is no one by that name here.
skunkworks is now known as someone
someone is now known as skunkworks
heh - someone is a registered nick
I have a small question about toolchanger. Can I?
don't ask to ask, just ask
I coded a hal python tool changer
Am I allowed to ask if I can ask to ask?
(Sorry, carry on)
It seems to work
It is divided into 2 part : python hal linked to a stepgen for stepper purpose
My question is : Python is to slow (user space) to capture the carossel home position (switch)
How implement the home switch
I think use the enable pin of stepgen
to stop the carousel when the switch is touched
but I don't know if it is a good solution
(sorry for my poor english)
I think you should use flipflop in hal to catch home switch signal and stop stepgen
and then connect it to your python module
it's the first time for me i never connect before
i would like to find a solution for my machine config
ok thx micges, why dont connect the home switch to the enable (through a "and" for masking purpose)
hello Guest 466
I have build a cnc lathe for the stone work
a stone lathe? crazy.
hpopols: whatever you like, just link them in hal and link status to python userspace
it's a 3 axis
i can make column with grooving etc
but my problem is i have two possibility
make a simple column straight so I need a continus axis (the spindle)
and when i want to make groove i need the change this axis with a full axis
at this time it work like that I have X Z and A
and work well
micges : Ok thank you , i will implement this. For the flipflop (or and), what thread use (servo or base?)?
i use step motor 11Nm
hpopols: servo would be ok
I have build this machine with step motor I was thinking it's easier
it work well it's only to use a step motor as a spindle my problem
micges : ok I stop disturbing you, thanks again for your advises!
hpopols: you're not disturbing
I just try to find a solution for my machine
I'm a novice in emc2
guest466 : I don't understand your problem
Guest466: if you have any pictures of your machine that would be great
Sorry I repeat I want to use a step motor as a spindle for my lathe is it possible?
I will send picture no problem
my machine will work like a standard lathe and also with a full axis to make grooving in the column
Guest466: you can use step motor as a spindle for lathe
but if you want any sane functionality you must have encoder on your step motor for spindle
for me i was thinging yes but i thinks it's too hard for me to make the right code
code? you mean config?
i clip the config if you want
that will be easier than to try to understand me i thinks
I think you should run our StepConf program and create simple lathe config and try to understand hal file and extend it with what you want
don't paste it here
i'm sorry i have past in this website
I go to bed
i have made a config with stepconfig and work well
paste here link
[21:48:56] <Guest466> http://pastebin.com/KEz1veQi
Thx again to micges bye
can i have some help??
Are you using the spindle stepper as the actual cutting spindle?
And what help do you need? You say that is it working well?
I use a step motor for the spindle and i would like to drive it sometimes in continuis and sometimes in full axis
to make 2 different milling
when you turn a column you need only a simple rotation of the spindle he isn't drive like a full axis but when you want to make a grooving in your column you need to drive the motor
OK, one possibility would be to create two stepgens for the spindle, a velocity type, and a position type (I see you have a "v" stepgen already)
exactly i have try to do it
You could then use a set of "mux" functions in HAL to choose which signals actually go to the stepper motor.
plese check my hal config here http://pastebin.com/KEz1veQi
i have create 4 signal 3 position and 1 velocity
stepgen.1 is the velocity
in my config
but when i start the spindle it doesn't rotate :(
What might be simpler is to do something a bit like I have with my machine. It is both a lathe and a milling machine, so I have two totally seperate configs which call the axes by different names and drive different spindle motors.
yes but how you do the make a complete milling turning and engraving for example?
can you sho me you config i would like to understand
Looking at your config: You have your spindle enable linked to stepgen.3.enable not stepgen.1.enable
Line 62 is wrong
because after i was thinking to create 2 different config
a yes stupid
Having two seperate configs is a problem if you don't want to re-home whenever you switch configurations.
yes that's my problem
In my case it makes sense because the machine totally switches identity between the two configs.
how you do that?
You can create as many machine confuigurations in different directories as yu like
ohh sorry yes
but you know a better way to configure a stepper as spindle?
replace it with a real motor?
like a brushless?
I just have a lathe config and a mill config. In the mill config hal the X-axis stepgen signals go to the "X" amplifier, and in the lathe config that stepgen is connected to the Z axis driver.
Isn't this machine more like a milling machine with a rotary axis .. like A rotating about X ??
no it's a lathe machine with a full rotary axis A
to make engraving in a column
Well, as I said. In your case you could use the HAL "Mux" function to choose which set of step-direction signals were sent to the amplifier. Then your spindle can be an A axis or a spindle at the touch of a button (a real button or a software button in pyvcp)
ok i saw the pyvcp but how you will do that?
just with a button?
pfeuhh it's crazy for me....
i know only to do simple thinks at this time
But, actually, it might make more sense to have it controlled by a G-code "digital out"
i have made some M command i can activate or desactivate output
do you thinks it could be a possibility
or use the M3
Then your G-code can write a "1" to a digital pin with M64, which changes the state of the mux function, and sends the output of the other stepgen to the parallel port
wait wait wait what's is the mux
It is a hal function you can add to your hal file.
Guest466 I'm so glad yo uasked!
to know you have to ask ;)
It take two inputs and a "switch" input. The output is one of the inputs, depending on the switch value
* pfred1 slaps his keyboard spacebar with a large trout ...
[22:09:11] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/mux2.9.html
can you give me an example with the M64 i never use that before
I'm sorry but still don't understand this mucx
you use it in the hal config
but after how you manage it?
is this like a gantry thing?
Well, first of all, it won't work for this situation. I looked and mux2 only works for decimal values, not binary signals like step and direction signals
isn't binary 1 or 0 or isn't 0 a decimal?
You could convert the step pulses to floats then back to boolean, but it would be painful
andypugh so what you're saying in effect is this mux stuff is worthless?
You would need to use the conv_bit_u32, then conv_u32_float then connect to the Mux, then use conv_float_u32 and conv_u32_bit...
No, mux is immensely useful, just not for bit-type signals
it'd be a lot more useful if you could use it how you originally described it
Guest466: The bottom half of this page is a list of all the functions you can use in a HAL file to work with your signals.
[22:16:10] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/
thanks andypugh i thinks i have a lot of works!!!!
yeah its picture time over here I'm going to get my camera
emc2 is great i hope i will use it like you
Just going back to M64 for a moment:
If you look in "Machine -> Show HAL configuraton" and look in pins/motion/ you will see a number of digital outputs. They can be controlled by G-code, so that G64 P0 L1 should set motion.digital-00 to 1. You can use that signal in HAL to change which stepgen signal actually goes to the parallel port pins.
(Except I am guessing the P0 L1 bit because I can't find the documentation anywhere)
'G64 P0' will enable pin digital-00
And I now think I guessed wrong. Sorry
'G65 P0' will disable pin digital-00
micges: And how do you clear it?
Ah, what he said...
sorry, 'M64' anf 'M65' ;P
So, you connect motion.digital-out-00 to some HAL functions which divert one or other stepgen (velocity or position) to the spindle stepper
(And there are probably lots of other ways too, incidentally)
But we can't use mux2 easily as it does not take boolean (single bit) inputs.
so i just have to hook my stepgen.1 with the motion.digital-out-00 isn't
No, because you sort-of need to have both the spindle speed controller and the A-axis controller driving the same stepper motor physical driver.
if there's one thing computers should be capable of I'd think it'd be handling boolean or bits
The mux2 function sulks if you hook it to a boolean output pin.
so i use the mucx and when in the gcode i will write M64 for example it should start my step motor as a spindle?
In principle, yes, that is exactly what shoild happen
i'm still afraid tomorrow i'm sure i will loose again 1 day....
In fact, you could even skip the digital output and choose which stepgen to connect to the p-port using the spindle-enable bit.
the documentation is not complete?
So, spindle-off the spindle position is governed by G1 A10 etc, and spindle-on it runs like a spindle.
i would like only that
How good is you knowledge of boolean algebra/
humhum.... what you mine
I think what you need to do is to add two AND functions and 2 XOR functions. Then take one input of all 4 from the motion.spindle-enable and the XOR from the velocity stepgen, and the AND from the position stepgen.
Then OR the outputs together before taking them to the paralel port
ok and where you do that?
In the HAL file.
I can write you one to show approximately how it would work, but you would need to test is anf tweak it yourself?
that would be lovely
if you want i can send you my email
he can use pastebin
where are you from pfredl?
and you andypugh?
originally I am from New Jersey
I am in the UK.
now I live in Delaware
I'm from france
delaware do you work in the finance?
finance is not really same as milling isn't...
today it sort of is
who wants to see my latest motor driver?
me me me
Guest466 well alright! http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1538/pict0783o.jpg
it's a small stepmotor isn't?
only 124 oz/in yes
Guest466 so I'll use two!
ok i use 11Nm it's about 1600oz/in
i need strong motor
it's not expensive that's why i was interesting to use them
those big ones usually don't go so fast
it mill stone it's for a real cnc machine dept 1500mm en Z 300mm in X and A axis
if i tried to put a motor that size on the lead I will run I don't think my mahcine would be very happy about it
few too many tons of force there
I'm just making a pen plotter
so I can etch circuit boards
the princip is the same actally if you can make a small machine you can make a bigger one
some things don't scale
I am almost certain that HAL file will _not_ work, because I never get stuff right first time. ut it should be close.
ohhh great you have already finish
Guest466 big motor like you have takes many amperes to operate
Get into the habit of starting emc from the command line, you get a lot more error messages
andypugh they don't show up on the parent console of X?
(just type "emc" in the terminal window)
yes but this machine work in a workshop
pfred1: Depending on which module the error is in, no. (And I don't think that PYVCP ever gives any error messages anywhere)
with many other machine so the current is not a problem
Guest466 it is when you have to build a power supply for it
Just for testing. If you just try to use that HAL file it is likely to quietly not load, and not tell you why until it is workig right.
I buy it from china (china is you friend...)
I don't think so
Ah, yes, and if anyone else feels like scanning through what I did to see if it makes any sense.......
Guest466 I do my best to avoid chinese goods
I don't like theire stuff
and their politic
their stuff doesn't seem to like me
I've had some of it literally explodei n my hands before!
which i did not appreciate too much
I guess with chinese stuff you never know if you're buying fireworks or not?
Guest466 the third wave if indusrialization will bury china but then they may be a bit of a problem
Guest466 I don't know what the world will do with a billion unemployed chinese
they made some of their own problems with their birth control policies too that will come to roost
but the first country who buy from china is America
Do we have enough raw materials for a third wave of industrialisation? We will run out of Indium next year....
andypugh yeah we're out of fossil fuels too by 1970s estimates
which is a way of saying if we really need the resources we always manage to figure out a way of aquiring them
thanks Andypugh and pfredl i go to sleep a little before a terrible day
andypugh haven't you heard? The USA is going ot asteriods now
Anyway... If I want to make a "playground" EMC source tree, how do I do it? Ideally I would like to leave my current RIP working, create a clone but only recompile the bits I have meddled with...
I am guessing it is a got command of some sort?
git, not got
can't just work in another directory?
Yeah, bit if I copy the whole tree I am concerned it will be a full recompile
make is supposed to just build what it needs to
how bad is compiling emc?
Does it know that a copy of a file is "untouched"?
make is pretty brilliant that way
andypugh you do have to bear in mind that originally UNIX was just an IDE for C
so some screwballs up at the labs could play Spacewar
interesting student designed machine using emc http://www.pervado.org/ http://www.pervado.org/attachments/000_M240-000%20Pervado%20M240.PDF
I wonder if I can point Xcode on my mac at a remote repository on my Linux machine :-)
tom3p it looks like a moving gantry to me
what I don't get is how come so many twin drive X but then leave Y single drive and so unbalanced
I suppose some of Maudslay's earlier lathes were pretty awkward in their own rights too
Left-handed, for a start
i love the domain! http://ilikerust.com/walker-turnerdriverline-l540lathe.shtml
for liking rust so much he sure goes through a lot of trouble painting over it though
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
Aye, my Colchester suits the URL better.
andypugh ever done electrolytic rust removal?
Huge, and strangely poorly thought out, like a 6tpi leadscrew in the cross-slide, and a 1.5" diameter thimble. Accuracy is a challenge.
No, but I have a Ner-aCar I intend to try it on.
yeah its really cool like magic
though use baking soda I've used the "real" stuff and I actually prefer baking soda better
so don't bother getting the "right" stuff ot use just throw a box of arm and hammer in there
I think that is a toothpaste here
really its pretty easy to do you just dump in the waster electrode the part hook it to a DC supply and let it rip
well baking soda in a box white powder
sorry andypugh does i have to remove the line number 48 to 50 in the hal file
because i hook to astep
Yes, you do. Sorry.
andypugh like for a smaller container just a battery charger does the trick
andypugh though be warned the connection to the waster electrode will get hammered badly
Guest466: I did warn you I was bound to have made several entertaining errors
why sorry? you help me your my superman ;)
andypugh sometimes what I'll do is solder a piece of wire to the part i want to clean then have the wire out of the solution and connect there
is nor serious
Yeah, I read it that way :-)
andypugh or just use a clip you really don't care about
Can I contact you by email if I have still my problem with this ......
There is some chance that the logic is back-to-front, ie you will only be able to use the A axis when the spindle is on, and only be able to use the spindle when it is off. The trick will be to try jogging A with the spindle both on and off.
but you strike me as the type that'd get a kick out of electrolytic rust removal its real Mr. Wizard sort of stuff
Yes, it does appeal to my alchemical side :-)
thanks andypugh and pfredl too
stuff comes up like sandblasted sort of
i go to sleep
when i do it I call it scrubbing bubbles
because it makes little hyrodgen bubbles and it seems like they do the cleaning
depending on how bad off items are it can take a couple of days though
I shoud sleep too, soon. I was up at 6am for a day trip to germany. The whole concept of a day trip to a different country seems wrong.
germany is probably closer to you than where I like to go camping is to me
though once iget there I stay for a few days
germany is close yeah
hmm yes a bit too close to you
allez bonne nuit
have a good night
Guest466 you have to keep an eye on those germans
they are lovely like you and me
I guess the ones that lived
Aye, in another window I am chatting to my german GF, be careful...
the bad ones all ended up in south america
if we didn't take them for our space program that is
tomorrow i will go in my space program
werner vonbraun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJ9HrZq7Ro
ahahahah my space machine in my space workshop
tom3p: I can tell without looking that that is Tom Lehrer...
tom3p when i went to school I went over this one kids house and they had a pic of him and the family hanging up on their wall
tom3p turned out they were close friends with him
have a good night
and thanks again
funny guy, old '60s stuff
I wonder if Tom knows the Clarks?
Hi All. Are there any other screens avialable other than the default one?
You mean other user-interfaces?
I can only find the default one
There are a few.
I am looking for a reference
its in the users manual
User interfaces section on this page lists them http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html/
MINI / AXIS / TkEmc / Touchy / Keystick
yeah i was just reading it the other day
We should have asked Guest466 to translate the Touchy pages into french.
touchy looks pretty good
just use google translate
If you have a touchscreen then it is the obvious choice.
looking for a nices screen with more bells an whistles
I've been getting into checking out foreign websites though google translate you can get the general gist of what is going on with it
isn't Axis the most belly and whistly?
There is a german GUI someone has done with even more
want bigger buttons and more colors
is axis GTK?
You can edit the xml I think
(Or whatever the definition language is)
it sort of looks GTKish to me
so far, all the people writing guis for emc have been interested in useful functionality, not flashy eye-candy stuff
don't be so touchy, cradek :)
because if it is you can theme the heck out of GTK
Doesn't skunkworks have a Mazak h12?
well, it's really quite true
[23:52:33] <Guest629> http://www.machmotion.com/product_info.php?products_id=93
similar to that
Guest629 phleeze not the M word!
just easier to find stuff when color coded
haven't they gone out of business yet?
Hey, cradek, for $200 are you willing to make Touchy look bling?
Guest629: looks like you can have that for only $199
instead of grey
andypugh: nope :-)
dont work for emc
EMC2 is open-source, you can edit the existing GUIs to look any way you like.
have not seen much in the way for screens for emc
Guest629: flashy colors are not emc's strength - if that's a primary consideration in choosing a machine control, maybe you won't be happy with emc
tiny problem no idea how to progam it
$200 for a pretty screen when you can buy a decent CAD package for the same price seems steep.
(And I use the word "pretty" advisedly)
past that with the source you can pretty much do whatever you want to anyways
maybe i should say semi professional lol
<Deliverance>you have a purrttty mouth</Deliverance>
Guest629: No, nor have I, but it can't be that hard :)
Guest629 maybe this will help you? http://www.anderswallin.net/2007/01/extending-axis-with-pyvcp/
here is what i am looking for full screen gui with the main buttons colored and large(ex: start=green, pause=yellow, estop= red) that sorta setup