sounds like a car crash
after all that plug switching the wife's laptop still has internet :)
plymouth is the bootup hardware detection thingy, isn't it?
heh, it could cause one I guess. I think it may be crashing my rtai kernel.
I believe it's just the pretty boot thingy.
add nosplash to the boot command line :)
Oh, I can get it to boot by adding nomodeset - but after my latest upgrade that doesn't work and I have to add noapic.
I removed 'splash' and 'quiet' as well.
they're putting all this work into getting a pretty bootup and making thing more unstable as far as I can tell. Looks like lots of folks are having plymouth related problems with the standard ubuntu kernels as well...
working on pretty bootup seems to be going about things backwards lol
my PC boots in ~8 seconds anyway
it doesn't need more work on looking pretty during that period
I don't see PCs boot all that often really
I turn mine off at night
10.04 does seem to boot fast and that's one of their major pushes this release - boot speed.
when you carry a laptop traveling for business, you see a lot more bootups
Valen do you turn your refrigerator off at nite too?
Dave911 did you find anyone working on the position closed loop PID with velocity mode stepgen? I just emailed gtom asking if he had done so
no, but I need my food to stay cold, I don't need my electrons to stay warm
and in that case, it's actually good to have something that looks nicer than a bunch of text scrolling by
Valen Linux actually does cron jobs at nite
usplash is pretty enough ;->
(especially when you work with people in the film or photo industries)
some folks I read though said that they gained 15 to 30 seconds by uninstalling or disabling plymouth
yes, and i leave my servers on at night
at least I can make a good pizza sauce even if I know squat about networks
jthornton, prove it!
my desktop however does nothing overnight other than waste power
and power costs money
gnipsel.com food recipes
Valen it doesn't appear to be doing much more than that to me now
geez guys, let's be civil, shall we
I think i'll leave that alonw
so SWPadnos galavanting about the country side much?
go to Tasty Pizza Sauce
not the past few weeks, but I'm headed to Las Vegas next week, New York the week after, and then off to a week long Caribbean cruise
so there is a little travel in my near future :)
I take it your not working on the cruise?
well, I may do a little software development, but not much
lots of fun sun and women then ;->
SWPadnos: is the anything I/O pci stuff from mesa with the appropriate daughter board likely the best choice for a drive/servo combo? (it appears to me the daughter boards provide the actual +-10V)
depends how you want to drive stuff
mesa have amps that plug directly into the anything io boards
yes, the daughter board converts the PWM + direction output that the FPGA makes into the +/- 10V that the drives expect
Valen, probably not for the size motors he's got
but if you want to use external amps then you can use the +-10v things
morfic: what you pushing?
BP or larger CNC machines, probably using 150V/10-40A motors
yeah thats getting serious
although they do have some larger drivers too I saw
actually, I think I'd be surprised if any of the machines are as small as a BP, from what I understand of the shop :)
oh yeah thats right morphic is doing the big boy toys ;->
I'm a little suprised mesa dont have some larger drivers really
SWPadnos: i am one "yes" closer to understanding things now, at the beginning of trying to understand anything i am way to ADD (i should get this officially diagnosed some day), good thing is, once i do have enough questions answered, i should be dangerous
we love danger
Valen: the servos do have drives/amps so i just need to talk to them
yeah then the +-10v boards are probably the way to go
and what dialect of klingon they speak i check out in the shop tomorrow i hope
like making sure they DO speak +-10V
SWPadnos: +-10V would be an analog drive/servo, not digital, right? (since we talked about percentages earlier)
for the most part, the servo is guaranteed to be analog
the drive will have an analog output as well
but yes, that's an analog drive, since it takes an analog command input as well
(motors are analog devices, so it's kind of a question of where the digital / analog changeover happens)
i am trying to filter out info we got from the windows based control guys, one called them analog, then his sales guy says he can not deal with our controls since our drives are digital, might explain why i am so majorly confused
SWPadnos: yes, i do rever to the drive as digital/analog then
there are drives that take serial commands as input, those are often called smart drives, and could probably be called digital drives as well
i wish Hans Platt with his awesome german accent had helped us more, not the texas sales guy who contradicted everything everyone else said
since they're all analog on the motor end, people most likely call them by whatever the input is :)
which Fanuc is this again?
0-T on the lathe, 16M on the mill
ok. that tells me nothing ;)
spindle servo number i got referred to something serial, going to bring up that page again, sec
there are some drives that have a serial interface, as well as other control interfaces
can i paste 3 lines? (there is usually some pre-pastebin limit of lines)
I have some Yaskawas like that - you can tune and set up via serial, and also monitor current or other things
4's OK 5 is pushing it
Spindle servo - A06B-6064-H322#H550 No ES5205393 A
Servo Amplifier - A06B-6058-H005 No F3Y 00389-B
Servo Amplifier - A06B-6058-H006 No F3Y 00462-B
[00:40:57] <morfic> http://fanuc.cnc-electronics.com/drive/serial-spindle-a06b6064/h322.html
mmm electronics with the covers off
above info is all i got via email when i asked for info from work.
morfic got a picture of the machine?
oh nice, zimbra let's me get to the attached jpg i sent
yes, was gonna show what i got on that one email anyway :)
oh wow, forgot our wireless has such amazing upload :( be a moment
boss should upgrade his microwave deal some day
hey did JT-Hardinge ever get his lan straightened out?
he's going to run 2 cables
ok, I have one problem with plan C it is too far from the antenna to the router...
so internet goes into router then into hub/perhaps something new
this is JT-Hardinge
whats the power injector to the antenna?
the cat5 cable provides the power
usually its a box with 2 network jacks on it?
yes but how does it get power in
jthornton I think that is how reprap does it
a wall wart
so you have a power over ethernet hub?
as in you plug the power into the hub and that into the antenna directly
morfic Hans Platt from PowerAutomation? ( german cnc company )
theres no little black box in the line from the hub to the antenna?
jthornton reprap just uses RJ-45s as cheap connectors
the wireless thing has a wall wart and has an in and out rj45 connector
tom3p: that one
and one plug for the power
yeah just plug the cable into the out of that wall wart
Valen: http://www.zerorealm.org/12LC/3-12-10_001.jpg http://www.zerorealm.org/12LC/3-12-10_002.jpg http://www.zerorealm.org/12LC/3-12-10_003.jpg http://www.zerorealm.org/12LC/3-12-10_004.jpg http://www.zerorealm.org/12LC/3-12-10_005.jpg
wow, i worked with him in broken arrow, he was just making the move to take over leading that company, can you clue me into contacting him?
so get a female jack to connect to the cat5e down to the router?
hang on I'm lost
tom3p: know him? power automation, camsoft, soft servo and MDSI/OpenCNC (meanwhile out of the run) are windows based solutions we look at, emc2 would be the going against them
btw his is NOT windows based, thats just the front end, the cnc is hardware running linux
I'm thinking this, you have antenna > cat 5 > box > cat 5 > hub
so - is there and more elegent way to convert bits (switches) in ladder to a number? The one way that comes to mind is to have a variable assignment for each switch and then add them togather to get the number - so the first switch would set %w0 to 1 if it was activated - switch two would set %w1 to 2 if it is activated - switch 3 would set %w2 to 4 if it is activated and so on (15 total) and then add them togath
tom3p: i never got this much info, i do not know how much his distributor/integrator knows about this, it has certainly never been mentioned
morfic these pictures claim they have errors in them?
so you should just need to change box > cat 5> hub to box > cat5 > router
tom3p: i will see if i can get his email address, i did not deal with power automation, just was called in on a phone conference
pfred1 they are working for me, just slow
morfic use imageshack
morfic: damn thats a tool holder on that thing lol
ok, one of those double female rj45 things
pfred1: what errors? there was no 404, i actually checked for once
it would be great if you could actually change the bits of a intager...
yeah, or just make the cable long enough
morfic must just be my browser being brainded it is loading
'sink edm' :)
pfred1: i didn't know the resolution they were sent in, else i had upped them to something faster
I love the cable out the back going back into the box
the cable from the antenna to the antenna device can only be 300' so I can't make the cable longer
yeah i meant the cable from the router to the hub/box
Valen: large tool holder? we have a 1.25" square turret, that machine has the guts to take .5" DOC on cobalt
morfic I donno what it is I'm looking at here but I'd love to strip it for parts!
I reckon I could sell your swarf as stock for parts morfic ;->
morfic when I strip boards I don't play around i have a 5 pound solder pot i hold them over
Valen: if we know how well this all works for us, boss will either buy machine sans control, or yank the fanuc control and ebay it when we buy the new machine
morfic I bought it after I aquired 2 old mini-computers and hand desoldering was no longer an option
this lathe would be retrofit #1, mill would be #2, if those two work, do rest
whats wrong with the old ones out of curiosity?
any little thing you want enabled, fanuc bends you over and uses no vaseline when they charge you, and when stuff breaks it's the arms and the legs, so no longer bending over needed
so your keeping the fanuc amps?
morfic look at the size of that transformer!
at the same time whatever we do get should be flexible enough to replace them with ither drive/servo combo easy
yeah EMC is good for that
that little one on the left in 005?
morfic: fwiw: the 'texas salesman' lead you wrong, the PA control runs from a browser ( any ) and communicates to the hardware with OS dependant libraries ( like EMC can be remoted ), and Hans is a good guy
man i wish i was allowed to take my slr to take good pictures of that stuff, so much shaken, not stirred stuff
I just hope you don't need to use ladder or any of that stuff to get running
morfic how old is this stuff? I see 7 segment LED displays on a board
1995ish for most machines, without knowing that particular machine's exact age
ladder is easier than networks LOL
jthornton: only for you ;->
tom3p: i will ask PA about that, or maybe get in contact with the other texas PA guy
with luck we should have an air cylinder to balance out Z soon
should make it a bit smoother
Hans was from texas at that time, moved to Wi to take over US ops, then .... lost track
tom3p: i just know he was on the road, he was our first contact and he got us in contact with the texas distributor/integrator
Valen: hydraulics on X to balance the turret on the bigger lathe.....since you seem to like big stuff
bah why aren't you just using hydraulic servos then ;-P
tom3p: and Hans gave quite a bit of detail and the distributor does not seem to mesh up with what Hans said on the phone
Valen: ask Daewoo? :P
today was extremly useful, and this channel and all people participating extremly helpful, thanks all
i;m gonna look closer at the drivers tomorrow, see what mesa bits and pieces it might take
pinouts are fun ;->
April 21st will show if i get to have fun or not.
I have a feeling it will be hard to get them out of fanuc
dmesg is your friend with mesa
deadline to pick between the windows based controls and/or emc
I kinda wondered why mesa doesn't work with mach
I know there are no drivers or whatever, but it seemed odd that mesa wouldn't make them
I guess no drivers
both typing the same thing at the same time LOL
eventually Windows will just be another footnote in the computer biz much like CP/M is today
someone is working on a mach driver for mesa... But it is vaporware at the moment.
they using hostmot2 or the mesa motion controller?
* jthornton can't figure out why you would pay for mack when EMC2 is better
skunkworks the way someone was talking about Mach here last nite it sounded like Mach is vaporware lately
if they use mesa motion it might have a chance
Eagle Lite strikes again! http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6751/hsoptogs.png
still a few air wires
oh i never plan on etching this board I'll drill it onto some phenolic and hand solder it all up
mesa motion firmware
its just a drilling guide template
pfred1: isn't the free version great? http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/latestcurrentlimit/latestboard.png
and when I hand solder it i use the eyeball tool in Eagle to show me where the wires all have to go too
I'm getting into kicad
parts library isnt so good but other than that its not so bad
skunkworks honestly i htink it is because of the free version of Eagle that all the FOSS schematic layout programs suck so badly
pretty clever on their part really
I tried kicad and geda neither worked on my system
skunkworks really I find the 3x5 limit in the lite version makes me make better boards than I would if i had unlimited area to work with
skunkworks does your version of Eagle ever smear scrolling the library?
mine used to, it also wouldn't work with compiz, being transparent all the time without some workaround
time for me to call it a day thanks for the help
does emc2's PID loop need to have position & posn feedback as inputs? couldnt it have a pot and a voltage as input ( just work on the diff between 2 floats, whatyouwant & whatyougot?)
on high zoom even work windows can smear for me too but i see that less
tom3p is your computer analog?
my process is
tom3p then i guess you'd need a DA
or actually an AD
tom3p, the PID in EMC2 is just float in -> float out, like any self-respecting PID should be
tom3p soundcards are AD/DAs
nah, the question was if the thing really knew anything about the data it processes, it doesnt. wether the data is from a pot or a DAC or a SWAG doesnt matter
SWPadnos, thx, thought so
Mach already has a Galil plug in but it can't do threading.... so what's the point?
really? Galil can thread, sounds crippling
Plus the Galil cards are not inexpensive
well, that's the critical problem with Mach drivers - they have to do everything
Yes, the Galil itself can thread, but the Mach plug in was never finished..
that's why the smoothstepper does some things but not others, and the G100 did some things (but never got threading right), etc.
Seems like a lot of the Mach stuff gets to the 95% complete mark and it stops for various reasons..
ah, ya know the original ancient emc was a shell to a pmac
I didn't know that.. that is very interesting...
PMAC motion controller to run the PID and motion algos
i got the code somewhere, always dreaded looking into that pmac address register mess
that's one reason why the motion controller and IO controller are separate, and why NML was used for communications between them
and the user interface ran on a separate CPU card, which is one reason why the UI talks to the task controller via NML :)
Oftentimes a plug in goes just so far and then something needs to be fixed internally in Mach to make it fully functional and there it dies.. you can't do everything in a Mach plug in sometimes without some help ...
it was originally a distributed computing system :)
The pmac cards were very advanced at the time ..
they (Delta Tau) still have nice stugg
they were going to release a Linux based motion controller a few years ago, but I don't know that they ever did
Yes they do. I haven't used much of the new stuff, I went through training on the pmac VME cards. I still have the 4 inch binders of stuff around here someplace. That card was simply overhwhelming.
cant see how vel mode stepgen can have position limits, going for a walk :) bbl ( yes Dr. Dimitri is great )
it doesn't, except possibly for 32-bit number limits
that'd be a long way
for software stepgen, yes, but then again a year is a lot of seconds
crap its raining
or pi * 10 ^7
tom3p what do you want to live in a desert?
no i meant like posn mode goes to a float number limit. I want a numeric limit but to drive there in velocity mode
oh. use a limit, limit2, or limit3 block. that'll take care of accel and vel limits too
"limit2 - Limit the output signal to fall between min and max" uh the signal would be a velocity, the limit would be a position... apples & pranges
or s/p/o/ :)
yeh , not a vi guy
apples and pringles (same difference ;) )
I don't have any Pringles I do have an apple though
i run into not being able to use floats in the fast thread too, so i used 'units' and hoped to get the mechanics to be a nice value like 1 step = 1um
if you have two, you could eat one and then compare apples and cores
it should be possible to use floats in the base thread
I don't know if motion will create that thread with float support though, so you may have to do some shenanigans to get a FP-using fast thread
yes, i was hoping to evaluate as fast as possible, maybe its not necessary to be in servo thread ( thats the faster one right? i dont use those names )
SWPadnos: i guess the biggest thing i had is what hardware goes between drives and pc/emc, since most software based solutions just talk about "boards", but never say what the board really is (our goal is the least possible amount of proprietary hardware), and for EMC i think i have a much better idea now what this hardware is
base is usually the fast "step generator" thread, and servo is the 1ms thread
[01:47:12] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
I don't know if that's complete
morfic, as far as dollar per i/o point, emc2 is WAY cheaper than anything you'll find
those mesa bords for what they are are quite a reasonable deal
I believe that EMC2 also supports more hardware, from more vendors, than any other CNC controller
tom3p: it is
definitely more than any sub-$5000 controller
these cnc companies lock you into thier hardware/expanders/breakouts and your pockets go empty
SWPadnos: indeed, i think it comes down to who programs on payroll things that emc2 currently doesn't do
tom3p everybody loves money!
morfic, one interesting thing about EMC2, which may not be explicitly stated anywhere, is that you can use more than one hardware interface, by different companies, at the same time
tom3p: idea was "pay once, use many", but now it turns into a very fanuc like "well, then you need this option and that option and probably this too"
so you could use a Mesa card for some things, and also use a Pico systems card for other things, on the same machine
SWPadnos: drive 3 axis with a mesa board and 2 from another board?
ah the days of trading fanuc codes... need barrel interpolation?
heh. look at AjaxCNC or Centroid for some really long lists of "extra options"
SWPadnos: i see i type too slow, you already answered my question
centroid is now turnkey machines, i only saw centroid on an old bridgeport 2 jobs ago
you could also run e,g, a slow rotary indexer with the parallel port, while the servos and spindle are run by a Mesa card, etc.
there's another one that charges extra if you want the interpreter to support the S word
yes, it's extra if you want to be able to set spindle speed
SWPadnos: so if machine goes down and mesa is out of stock, i could replace it with another card, reconfigure emc and go, and if i run out of IO i could get 2x a smaller one configure and go and just make sure i have my bigger interface back for later?
good, one point where emc2 surely kills the others
and, if you set things up right (for instance, making the conversion to engineering units as soon as possible), you don't even have to change any tuning parameters
engineering units for what?
if you set the scaling on the PWM/analog outputs so that they represent e.g. inches/minute of speed (for a velocity servo drive), then you can change interface hardware, and all you have to do is set the output scale correctly and you're good to go
encoder feedback in inches, for example
instead of counts
the hardware drivers all have scaling parameters, so the rest of the system never sees anything but "inches"
so if a 1000 line encoder dies, and all you have on hand are 2000 line encoders, just stick one on there and change one number in the ini file, and start machining again
get away from counts, but set what actual distances it moves
that also makes other things make sense, for example acceleration is then in inches/second^2 instead of some weird units nobody can figure out
there are debugging tools that let you see exactly what's happening inside EMC2 and the hardware/realtime layer - a scope and multimeter basically
it's easier when the numbers you see actually mean something :)
the mesa boards that together with daughter boards drive servos, also do the input/output for the ladder stuff? limit switches/toolchanger counts/* ?
[01:56:36] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7VWcuVOf0
Mesa has different daughtercards for generic I/O
any I/O point on the hardware can be connected to any ladder I/O, or any other internal signal
right, one daughter board for drives, one for generic i/o
(subject to limitations like you can only connect a bit to a bit)
the servo board also has encoder inputs
which don't have to be used with the analog outputs, incidentally
which is the most versatile any I/O board then that works with emc2?
you can use the fourth analog output to run the spindle, and use the encoder for a handwheel if you like (assuming you don't need spindle feedback)
probably the 5i22, since it has 4 connectors
i am going overboard on the $ figure for wednesday, i think i can afford it, seeing some of the other totals
they're pretty similar though, the $200 5i20 or $220 5i23 are just fine too
the 5i22 is $500 or so, for the high end one (with the high gate count FPGA)
oh no, $429
1M or 1.5M gates?
but for that price, you can buy 2 5i20, or close to 2 5i23, and get 6 I/O connectors (192 I/O points, if they were all used for bits)
1M is $369
no i mean what would i need, seeing how 5i20 is what 200K? 1M seems huge
can't answer what you need, since we don't know what you want to hook up yet :)
so 5i22-1M would be plenty,
but I can tell you that the 5i20 can run 12 servos, if you want to use that config
in that config, is there all IO used up by the servos?
got estimate of i/o points needed?
you get up to 4 servos on a connector, or 24 digital I/Os, or whatever the attached daughtercard gives you
SWPadnos they're making one of these: http://www.boxofficeprophets.com/images2/wild091108.jpg
7i33 is a quad board, this is where the 12 servos comes from? 3 daughter cards on one 5i20?
have you looked at the Mesa website?
i am flipping between that and here right now
just you talk more my language
when do i need the gate count to be high?
yeah, there's not a ton of EMC2 specific info on their wbsite
like one 5i22 vs 2 5i20 ?
if you want the FPGA to do advanced stuff
define advanced stuff
which isn't really necessary at this point
well, Mesa makes a motion processor they call SoftDMC (not supported by EMC2), which uses some gates
SWPadnos did you see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quN37YskoaM&feature=fvw
it's also possible to make big FPGA configs that have loads of stuff you'd end up turning off, like having 24 step generators and 24 PWM outputs and a dozen encoder inputs, etc.
yep. it's pretty cool
SWPadnos I still can't get over it
what might be cool, but I don't think anyone is working on it, would be to have at least part of classicladder, or a reduced logic-only PLC, running in the FPGA
the basic deal is that you don't need the gates now, but it's possible that they'll come in handy later on
pfred1: ohh, i never clicked that link, thought the 4 axis hand was cool
morfic I had no idea people were doing anything quite like this until i saw this video
I think I would recommend spending the extra $30 on the 5i23 though, since it's a bigger/faster FPGA, and it's a later family which is still supported by the free Xilinx webpack software
SWPadnos: i could put things that run on the pc into the fpga ? (again, put very simplified)
if you know how to program FPGAs, yes
it might not get done for you ...
never touched fgpas...knowingly
pfred1: the left upper foot seems to slide about, but it does not seem to lose position o_O
morfic its absolutely insane
8i20 is an amp in case we ever replace the stuff daewoo put in there and 2.2KW is enough for our servos (wuld love to say it isn't but i would also love to be wrong)
morfic, it's not simple to put PC software into an FPGA
given a big enough FPGA, it might not be too hard
so it's possible to put some functions that are now done by the PC software into the FPGA (like the PWM and step generators, as well as encoder counters), only some things really lend themselves to it, or provide an improvement by being in the FPGA
or make a SoC with on board flash and put that on a FPGA
2.2KW may be enough, but I think your servos may be AC, not DC
SWPadnos: but like you said ladder stuff done in there would be a use (if it gets actually done or not)
it would be nice, and it wouldn't fit in a 5i20
but as I said, I don't know if anyone is even thinking about working on it
SWPadnos if you off loaded the step generation would EMC just put out timed high to low signals then or something?
SWPadnos: that would be if they had to go/are dead and we look at what to do, or when the current drives die, might be cheaper to buy a new drive/servo combo than one of them replaced with what we have
you'd get a 5i23 or 5i22 to "future-proof" your investment, for the most part
working with whats available already is good, dont get your tit in a wringer over a cool idea
SWPadnos: yeah, i won't bring up the future proofing
pfred1, the Mesa cards get a step frequency, and output that
morfic looking at the industry's historic track record I can't see why one can ignore the future with tech
yeah, Fanuc replacement parts are pretty expensuve
tom3p: nice way of putting it, i am more interested in what we CAN do, than tell my "takes no bullsh#t" boss what *COULD* be
it must be the lack of dead fanucs to rape for parts
i kmow hat guy
pfred1: not ignoring, but not saying this *will* come when it is a *maybe* at best
know that guy
morfic oh i can guarantee yo uthat companies will go under and or charge crazy prices for "obselete" components eventually
the 5i23 is a no-brainer to me - double the gates for $30
the 5i22 is more of a "what if" kind of thing, at twice the price
morfic and "obselete" may come as soon as a year with some stuff!
tom3p: he already told us to tell whoever we email with (on the windows side of things) "my boss is an asshole and he wants answers, fast" to speed things up, he is good at the good cop/bad cop game
5I23 it is, $229 is nothing compared to what it goes against
( get a spare, tell the boss everyhthing was doine redundant at 1/2 the cost :)
my hope is we keep spares
i need a free cd, i want to boot up the livecd and play with sim at work
run it on office machines of various spec and see what latencies i get
I think I ordered a pair of 7i43's and a pair of terminal boards last week, but no confirmation.
should help me get the computer the right size
i guess getting good feedback/response/service from mesa would be a good start too
their web site blows
they're in here a lot & very helpful. check the old logs
morfic low latency seems to not have as much to do with CPU speed as it does with other system overheads always
atmega I just got my Digi-Key confirmation of shipping email :)
ha and its already in the tracking system too!
the digikey min. order is kind of annoying
whats it like $25 ?
I think $10
but, last time I just needed one 10k thermistor
I mean come on you can't find $10 of parts you could use?
I blow more than $10 for lunch
I did, but...
I just buy parts to fry when i order I figure I probably will initially
I think I paid for 2nd day delivery too
like $24 total for a $0.95 thermistor
keeps the pressure down prototyping knowing i have twice as many as I really need
pfred1: i am looking at integrated gfx vs dedicated gfx, vs qualities of north and south bridge chips
morfic integrated gfx and emc2 is usually a big no-no
we had all dells, until they hired so quick, they picked up machines from best buy, should give me an interesting spread of specs
pfred1: i would like to show my boss how big a no no :)
dedicated gfx cards are still cheap
I recall reading a $6 card helped in one case
if you have a real machine and use it to generate real income, buy a real computer
I can recommend a Core2 Duo machine from Acrosser
they're $800 or so as I have them configured, but they do quite nicely for EMC2
atmega emc2 latency numbers cannot really be guaranteed by just throwing money at a problem at least not right off
yes, there are some tested motherboards that you can get , known latencies
the small case also has a PCIe slot and a PCI slot, so you can add a nice video card if you have to, in addition to one Mesa card
[02:32:13] <morfic> http://www.acrosser.com/
AR-ES0892 I think
tom3p I've seen that chart and there is no guarantee anyone posting all of that information knew what they were doing etc.
that is the limitation though - there's one PCI slot, so no adding another Mesa card to that one
it's not just throwing money at it... buying a known decent setup for say $800 is a whole lot cheaper than trying to reuse a 'free' computer and me having to spend 4 hours screwing with it.
atmega: i will make sure it's not a "free computer"
morfic when you go PC shopping bring the emc2 live CD with you
benchmark it on the spot
SWPadnos: the overall speed of the computer has much or little effect on max speed machine can cut at with emc2? (where speed X is between 0 and the hardware's current Vmax)
need a bootable usb drive for latency checks
atmega why is that?
it's funny. I had the same thought, but for an Embedded Systems Conference - trouble is none of the little embedded boxes have CD drives :)
reminds me, i think my thumb drive didn't look so good when i pulled my keys out earlier
since you're planning on using hardware PWM generation, you don't even need very good latency numbers
you could get by with about 100 us of latency, if you plan to use the default 1 ms servo cycle
that's another advantage of using something like the Mesa or Pico products, instead of the parallel port :)
[157413.893287] sdd: sdd1 <-- thumb drive still lives, just barely though
I noticed when i scoped my parallel port with emc2 generating step pulses here the signal was low then just had high spikes in it is that normal or do I have something misconfigured on that system?
like it looked rather like this ______|________|________|________
yeah it did work
if you need negative step pulses, you need to invert the step output
but I just like my clocks more squarish in stuff i make is all
the step pulse width is the steplen setting
it's not a clock
SWPadnos it seems like a clock signal to me
heh, sort of, but the phase is unimportant - it's only the active edge that matters
so duty cycle is irrelevant, as long as all the timing needs are met
I've noticed my motors run a tad better with even clocks is all they run OK on these pulses too
it is subjective on my part just listening to them but emc2 runs them well enough
when i built them I just used a 555 timer to generate step pulses
and with that of course i was able to set the pulses square
acrosser had to be taiwan despite all the round eyes on the website
tom3p taiwan is the good stuff anymore
i believe so, wasnt knocking it, work there a lot
heck I can remember when jamanese meant chinese quality
back like in the early 70s
i hope i remember how to use cdrecord, been so long
wow, you must be *OLD*
come on is 45 that old?
45? and you can use a computer?
tom3p: me? yeah seems it's burning :)
is 37.5 yrs too old?
actually, I have you beat by a year or so :)
atmega well they weren't around when I was a kid but I built my first one out of chips
morfic good, wouldnt be hard to get some higher level tools, but if its cooking, just wait
tom3p: i didn't want to wait for k3b or so to compile, dolphin unlike nautilus did not offer anything in right click menu
pfred1, the 555 would have not only square pulses, but also infinite timing resolution
tom3p: i don't mind CLI, just rusty, not burning many isos is problem
emc2 can only change the inter-step time by a full base period
early home computers were from the USA ( my cosma elf, my 8080, ...) hmmm we gave it away again :(
SWPadnos 555 duty cycle is adjustable
just like the frequency
so you get a smoother pulse train than EMC2 can generate - there's no RT latency to deal with using a 555
SWPadnos well I've just noticed any motor drivers i build sort of like them even is all
SWPadnos they like 50%
have you tried setting a 555 circuit to 10-20%?
it should sound about the same
SWPadnos: just because the price seems so low, the 7I33 for 4 servos at $79 is it, no several benjamin daughterboard??
oh, well then I'm back to "that's odd"
$79 is it
555 no smoother than mesa, tho, should be nailed ( i think )
opencnc guys blew initial quite up to $50K, so the current price tag is low, camsoft is around $20K
a little smoother, but not enough that a slow stepper motor would care
oh. then I'll sell you a tested PC with Mesa cards :)
I'm sure I can still beat $20k, even with EMC2 installed
things to embed inside the anything i/o card,, the on& offtime generator for EDM :)
and THC, what the heck
wait, gona think on that one
SWPadnos: i think this is where bosses idea of "then we get it programmed" is coming from
no need for floating point - ADC read counts
OK by me
are you the only active dev in here btw? and cradek's host says board of directors, not sure how much dev that means
going to change xchat to show all hostmasks real quick
I can't believe UPS ground is $10.88 on a .7 pound package!
use USPS as often as possible
tom3p most places do not give it as an option
morfic: I'd use the intel atom boards
latency is pretty good, mostly solid state and $100 or so
oh hmm. mine should say that too. one sec
we and a few others are using them and they seem pretty good
I think cradek does plenty of dev. He and jepler wrote AXIS...
yes, I'm one of the developers because I have contributed code ever
I haven't done much lately, and cradek and jepler (and jmkasunich and others) have done waaaaaay more overall too
heh, I even did a tiny bit!
all those three, plus me and alex_joni are the board
elvis has left the building (morfic is gone)
yep - mozmck too :)
I saw his brb, not an exit?
ok, elvis has closed his eyes
I figured he'd get it when he gets back
RAID 1, SSD's for disk ;->
I better get on the stick over here designing a board for these driver chips before they arrive
i think mouser has USPS, and soemtimes when i compare, they get the bill over digikey
I am stoked for them they seem like the best out there for the price
pfred1 yaknow sparkfun have some offshoot that'll make boards in onsies, as i recall the rates were fairly cheap
Has anyone attended the CNC Workshop in the past? I am curious what EMC Labs is about...
there's Olimex as well
Valen I know but until I've prototyped a circuit and know it works I don't see commiting to board art as very intelligent
(or maybe that's the one)
tom3p: i never really leave
depends on how you value your time vs your money
i don't reboot the sheeva much
grommit, yes, I've been to the last few CNC workshops
a lot of us here have gone to several of them
Valen time and money have nothing to do with it i just think it is stupid to commit to board art before all parts and values are knowns
this year's is at a new location and none of us really know what it's going to be like
three directors and one dev i see
I'm much more dev than director, fwiw
I only direct when I absolutely have to
and I seem to be the other way around :)
I'm usually fairly sure what i'm making is going to work before I actually make it
Have you heard of EMC Labs (as one of the seminars)?
not by that name
what have you heard? we've had some classes and stuff.
grommit, I bet that's just what they're calling the "hands-on" class they're planning
Valen what I make usually works right off too but I like htings to work as well as possible before i am done with them
cradek, only reason i ask is since *IF* my boss does decide to go for emc, he would like to pay actual project devs to implement (what we consider to be) missing bits
ok, that is kind of what I was hoping for...
as far as I know, there's going to be one "intro to EMC2" class, taught on two days
(the same class - a repeat AFAIK)
Valen and that often times means a few changes here and there
I need a little more then intro, I need an advanced class for dummies ;-)
morfic any programmer in a storm ...
morfic: I've done some work like that. Drop me an email if you'd like to talk about it. But that's not the only way (or the most common way) things get added.
cradek you devs aren't holding back any secret stash of code now are you?
cradek: your email is?
pfred1: don't be silly
There's a secret stash of code in the development branch :-)
cradek why not? I am silly by nature :)
there's a secret stash of code in my head, but it's so secret I don't know what it is
I've got a secret stash, but it doesn't do anything yet :)
morphic yeah the Intel D945GCLF2 mini-ITX works well for us
I wonder why my cloak isn't working
In fact, I was pleasantly surprised that there is the beginnings of a configuration gui for Mesa cards.
need to head to bed now, need to start my work week a day early tomorrow
~4000 latency out of the box
I kind of even worked....
if i'd tell myself, i'd have to kill me
SWPadnos: wanna share your email too, better to have two people who are interested than one
heh. sure. my business email is firstname.lastname@example.org
thanks all, 'night
AMD released the coreboot patch for 7xx chipsets so SMI free mainboards using AMD 7xx and 8xx chipsets are around the corner
SWPadnos it looks like it is working here
great. what's working?
SWPadnos your cloak
maybe my client knows too much :)
SWPadnos 23:05 -!- SWPadnos [~Me@emc/developer/SWPadnos]
I like your real name: No project too simple to make too complex
strange. that should be board-of-directors, like cradek
been my motto for years :)
I wish i could remember the movie where Don Johnson utters the classic line, "Nothing starts out complicated, it just gets that way."
has anyone ever used the TwinCAT windows automation software by Beckhoff?
well, he's only been in Miami Vice, so it must be that :)
I have a collection of one-liners and one goes something like this: For every complex problem there is an answer that is obvious, simple, and wrong.
yep, that's a good one too
SWPadnos nope he has been in a few movies
huh. who'd a thought?
one of them is one of my favorites but not because he's in it
I happen to like the author of that story
oh, :I forgot he was in "A Boy And His Dog"
thats the one
yep, that's a good one
but he didn't say that line in that movie
anyone else getting a connection refused trying to use the RTAI cvs?
has anybody tried emc on a coreboot machine?
what is coreboot?
I've read most of everything Ellison has ever wrote
coreboot is what became of the LinuxBIOS project
he has a wry sense of humor that agrees with me
very fast booting to Linux
and he did some of the best Star Trek epsiodes too
yes coreboot is what LinuxBIOS evolved into
he's an SOB but a great euthor
I'm starting to like AMD more
AMD has been pretty open source friendly
Valen get 'em while you can Intel is burying them!
I really prefer intel and nvidia hardware, but AMD seems to be becoming way more open source latley
nvidia dropped all of its open source driver support
binary only for nvidia now
I've had better latency results with AMD so far, and they are sure cheaper for the speed it seems.
too bad the SuperMicro H8DCE isn't supported
I'm all intel/nvida in everything I do at the moment but if AMD can come up with something like an atom and core2 series in terms of performance per watt I'd be interested
oh and dual core ARM boards with PCIe are due out later this summer
L84Supper you realize that Nvidia can't do anything about that though right?
the overall cost is usually less, because the CPU (for a given speed) is around the same price (usually a little lower), and the motherboard is generally a lot less
pfred1: yeah, so it will be reverse engineered open drivers for nvidia
L84Supper to be #1 you have to sometimes trad on paths you'd rather not, but do anyways to get where you're going to
SWPadnos: ever do any D programming?
quad core ARM's are due later this year, 1-2GHz per core, the current dual outperform the Atom's
Intel has 4 generations waiting in the can
last i heard
AMD is that far behind
looks like D is getting a little more popular. I keep running into it more.
AMD released the 8 and 12 core Opterons last week, we're using them in the next >1petaflop supercomputer
yeah but they can't afford to build new fabs like Intel can
they've gone fabless, so that doesn't really matter much
it uses more of the HD59xx gpu's than Opterons to get >1 petaflop
SWPadnos it does when yo uwant to break new tech
(the CPU department contracts with the manufacturing department, or someone else, to make the chips)
yes, that's true
SWPadnos and intel has it waiting in the wings but won't release because they really don't need to
I don't believe that actually
like Intel cares what you believe
(not saying you're lying, it's just implausible)
intel would like nothing more than to wipe AMD off the planet
I don't much care what Intel believes either actually
SWPadnos what is so implausible about not wanting to drop 2 billion if you don't have to?
Intel is even using TSMC now
well, it takes a moderate sized team years to develop a CPU these days
so having 4 generations "in the can" means that they would have already invested billions in the design
SWPadnos and it takes over 2 billion USD to start up a new fab plant too
that's assuming that you need a new fab for a new CPU, which isn't always the case
no new tech
that's only necessary when you go to a new process
time to make sharbat-el whatever iranian ice cream
Hi all. Is there an Ubuntu app for viewing the .rdf file IRC logs of #emc? Google and Synaptic failed me on this. I see that RDF is like XML, but it seems like this is intended to be viewed as "formatted", and not with just another XML editor. Any suggestions?
I don't know what the heck those files are
I'd view the text files :)
like old write files?
I was down at the CME earlier today, SMI kills the clusters they use for trading, just like SMI interferes with EMC
KimK have you tried Open Office?
yeah there's two for each day: the text file, and the screwy one you don't want
it's not quite rich text, because it has tags like "user", not "color"
L84Supper, what's the C stand for?
SMI needs to die but Intel, AMI and Phoenix still have a death grip on it
yeah, Chicago mercantile Exchange
SMI actually holds up trading
SMI is required for all Intel CPUs since the P4, or you're operating the chip out of spec (that's how some of the thermal throttling is handled)
like the guys who have seats down there cant afford a better computer
heh, this is for the actual trading in the CME vs the traders
they have a sea of 1U x86 servers, they used to use HP lockstep dual core MIPS
I'm not sure how they handle parity errors now, maybe after 2 decades of trading derivatives it just doesn't matter
there's no parity in that system, so why bother checking
pfred1: I have now. OOo opens it like an XML editor. But maybe I'm missing a formatting file (something similar to a .css file, maybe?) that the poster just assumes that I already have?
they farm it out to Enron
they probably fired the regulators anyway :)
there were regulators?
huh. who knew?
SWPadnos sure the regulators rode with Billy The Kidd
oh. so their bones were doing the actual regulatory oversight. that explains a lot.
we'll they do check your ID and have a metal detector on the way in
L84Supper those day traders can never bee too careful around them!
guns are passe anyway
KimK tried it in gedit?
* KimK would like to open the "screwy one you don't want", LOL
KimK 800+ rdf tools http://www.mkbergman.com/new-version-sweet-tools-sem-web/
I thought someone made plastic guns for metal detector environments?
SWPadnos: does Atom use SMI?
L84Supper, I don't know
it's sort of core2, so probably
those Atom mini-itx had really low jitter
yes, they're quite nice little boards
$65 is hard to beat
only one PCI slot though
the dual core ARM will have 2 PCIe x4
only need one for a mesa card ;->
for one mesa card, yeah :)
L84Supper free is a tough act to follow too though
I am using the Intel D945GCLF2 mini-ITX (just getting started) and it works great
yep, that's the one
L84Supper: where is some info on that dual core ARM? who's making it?
I have my Mesa 7i43 connected vi EPP
moznck: they use Marvell ARM soc's
I wonder if the new atom boards with the non crap northbridge will be any good
Thanks for your advice, that helps. Oops, supper. If anyone thinks of anything else, please write it. I'll be back a little later. Thanks all!
any news on RTAI for ARM?
some of the Jetway min-itx using VIA would have extra irq lines so that you could use a 2 PCI slot riser, do any of the Atom boards do the same?
I think rtai works fine on some ARM processors, but there are a lot of different ones.
jitter (on D945GCLF2 ) is less then 14,000 (if running lots of apps), usually < 9000 if just running EMC
grommit: if you use the SMP you get ~4000 or so
Yeah, I wasn't able to build the kernel correctly for some reason and didn't spend too much time with it
you don't need to build the kernel, somebody made a pre-packaged one that worked fine
all you needed to do was compile emc
I didn't see that (apparently)
its somewhere in the wiki
KimK, RDF is meant to be a machine readable format. It's like RSS (in this case, I think), which you would never want to look at yourself. I don't know if there's any point to looking at that file, since there is no information there that isn't also in the text file
TBH, since I am using the Mesa for stepgen and encoders I don't really care all *that* much about latency. But having smp working would be nice just for general perf.
3D support for pre ATI HD GPU's is a mess with Ubuntu 10.04, the Ubuntu devs don't really get DRM yet
that said, you can look at it with Kate (the KDE text editor), which will let you collapse various XML elements
has anyone started on EMC2 for 10.04 yet?
L84Supper, mozmck has been working on it
kernels and CD
SWPadnos: SMP by default?
got a kernel compiling right now.
I'm shooting for that
mozmck: if you need any help I have someone here with time
I'll beta test on an atom
SMP that is. I've had pretty good success running SMP generic kernels for karmic on single and dual core computers.
there is no point in having rdf files alongside the text files ( except to piss off the mouse challenged file chooser )
I figured it was some kind of rich document format, or some such
that's probably true
L84Supper: thanks. The hardest part sometimes is just figuring out how to do everything.
though they can be used like RSS feeds
moxmck: esp with ubuntu with their undocumented configs at times
they even modified Grub2!
yep. I think I finally have the basics down of making kernel packages the ubuntu way. Some of the information on the web is wrong. finally got some guys on ubuntu-kernel to tell me the right way.
grub2 was hard enough
didn't know that. grub2 is somewhat of a pain.
I'm yet to see an upside to grub 2, the UUID thing I could see a reason for, and now I acutally use it
I have a feeling plymouth is going to cause problems, and apparently you won't be able to uninstall it.
again, not really seeing the need for it, I'd rather they worked on just making boot faster than trying to make it prettier
but if they keep on the way they are going there won't be anything to boot to! Less is more...
still open source rarely works that way
my boot time is like 8 seconds or so now, the machine spends about the same time in bios fartaresing around
we were building kernels for 10.04 over the weekend, the stock kernels are pre-ATI DRM fixes
so modesetting almost works most of the time
you still here?
hmm, modesetting works fine on the stock 10.04 kernel on my machine with intel graphics, but not after I patched it for rtai.
I built from the latest lucid git.
Just figured out that if you add to the version string in the changelog you can't use a dash: like -rtai or you get errors compiling hcd.c
I added .rtai instead and it's compiling fine now. (at least I think that's the problem!)
cradek did a mill that could do rigid tapping with a 3ph spindle motor
does anyone know what is needed to be able to do that?
balls of steel
or lots of taps ;->
one would need some kind of spindle encoder, was wandering what kind of encoder one cound use
he has a youtude vid of it
wanted to talk to him about it
I plan to use a simple hall effect sensor on my spindle to do tapping. I haven't figured out how I am going to mount it yet, or the magnets but....
I was under the impression you needed a decent number of counts to do tapping
you need an encoder, minimum resolution is probably 100 lines (400 counts) per revolution
it must have index
the more counts per rev, the better
Why such high res?
there are some high speed magnetic rotary absolute position sensors floating about
i believe they even have quadrature outputs
rigid tapping isn't the same as threading on a lathe (which can be done OK with only the index)
Seems like 2-4 readings /rev would suffice.
well if you only have one pulse per rev and you try to reverse the tap at 300RPM
and braking on the spindle...
not so great when you reverse the tap though
here is his sample of rigid tapping using EMC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HLKXeWqTF0
you have to know how far it overtraveled, you can't assume that the spindle stops when you tell it to
that's also why you need a real encoder - the encoder can tell EMC when the spindle reverses, whereas a hall sensor or three can't
(well, three could, but you'd have 1/3 revolution when you don't know what's going on))
you could use hall sensors and a bunch of magnets to make a poor mans encoder
basically a quadrature sensor
messy way of doing it though
still, you could retrofit it easy enough
as long as it can tell you direction, and the resolution is good enough for the finest screw you want to tap, that's fine
for that, couldn't a linear scale work? (i.e a cheap digital caliper)
they dont work in a rotary fashion
what ever encoder you use it will have to be able to handle the high rpms of the spindle
Valen: no, use that to determine the final stopping position
ds3, no, you move Z in relation to the spindle rotation, so a linear scale is of no use
and keep the index pulse from the spindle
I assume you tap at a relatively slow speed, no?
and I don't know if they work if you bend them around the spindle :)
calipers dont output data now, they output sometime later
SWPadnos: no no.. you said you can't tell where it stopped, well a linear encoderwould tell you that
we use linear scales on our linear axies ;->
I think the video Guest843 linked to was at 400 RPM, doing 1/4-20 threads
he means stopped in terms of spindle rotation
ds3, but you'd be measuring the thing you want to control, not the thing it's supposed to be synched to
tap down, count index pulse, stop spindle, read scale, count back pulse
SWPadnos: it'd justbe a secondary measurement to see how much you overshot
you need to move Z down at the right rate to do the tap
otherwise you will just spin the tap like a drill
Z movement and spindle rotation is sync'ed for taopping
k guys im going to buy thos foxxcon atom board and but some small ubuntu on it and then you guys are gonna help me turn it into emc
right? ok good
the problem here is that EMC2 is measuring spindle rotation and moving Z. if you stop Z while the spindle is turning, the tap breaks (or the workpiece does) - it doesn't pull the quill down for you
ah I see
valen: intel atom board is like fastest shit on wiki latency table
hard part with that that I had was the livecd wouldn't boot on my atom
2nd fastest, I have well had the asus PC-DL delux
I guess you could freewheel the Z motor, but that seems like an icky and possibly dangerous solution
whatever whats amd
that got hit by lightning
now I have one of the atoms
hey can i do smp and realtime?
thats what I'm doing
on that dual core atom board
it's possible, but harder to build kernels for that
have a clutch to switch to a stepper to drive it for tapping only?
so it works or youre not machining anything
you can do realtime on one core, everything else on the other
ds3: or just use a spindle encoder
no, that's the opposite of the effect I was looking for :)
actually I'm looking at milling threads now
letting the motor go might allow the tap to "pull" the Z as the spindle slows
valen: what board?
then you measure it with the Z encoder/scale
you would need a good encoder for knowing what speed the spindle is going so you can track the speed of the z axis in sink with the spindle speed slowing down to a stop and then as it speeds up in the reverce direction
Valen: isn't there a max speed encoders can run at?
it really looks like the way to do stuff, and not bother with needing spindle encoders
renesis the intel one in the table
I get ~4000 or so latency
fuck newegg just ran out
that's why I said you need at least 100 cycles (400 counts), and the more the merrier
i almost bought one
there should be more around the place
that's better than 1 count per degree, which should be OK for most taps
I use mesa hardware though
what looks like the way to do it without spindle encoder?
im doing stepdir on parport
grommit, there is no way, if you're talking about rigid tapping
I think thats one of the new ones, I don't know if anybody has tried one of those yet
you can always buy a tapping head if you want to do it that way
grommit, its not rigid tapping, its milling the thread itself, only really works on larger >M8 threads
cut the actual spiral of the thread with a high speed cutter
oh, threadmilling would work too, but only for larger holes
unfortunately I don't know if I can mount anything more then a hall effect type on my spindle :-(
let's all threadmiill a 0-80 hole ;)
you could use it like a lathe in that case, but no rigid tapping
you only need the index pulse for lathe-style threading, because the spindle never needs to reverse, and it's assumed that it has reasonably consistent speed
its no problem to run the encoder off a belt for this application is there?
[04:24:55] <renesis> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186184
if the spindle sucks, you need more feedback to track it
thats the foxxcon 945gc atom 330
should be ok, make sure theres no lash
I tries the d510 MB, and I think it would work fine. Unfortunately, I had another problem and returned it for the other one before figuring out the problem was with my monitor.
dunno I havent used that one
tom3p, as long as it's 1:1 drive with no slip, that's fine
If the 510 would work it would be nicer as there is no fan on it
SWPadnos: for a blindhole, you'd still need morethen an index, I'd guess
jetway has one thats big
I used the intel one
ds3, maybe, maybe not. you certainly can't "peck tap" with a tapping head
[04:26:08] <renesis> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131396
asus prob has it all hacked up for hardware monitoring and quick booting and weird hacks
the man page for hostmot2 describes 'counts' as "Feedback position in counts (number of steps)" but what is it in velocity mode? nanosecs per linear unit of measure? (or no meaning/use)
This is the one I got: http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-D945GCLF2D-Mini-ITX-Motherboard
D945GCLF2 is the atom board we have used
grommit: they ran out
in the last week
im either going to get a foxxcon or asus
or get both and race them
They have the 510: http://www.mini-box.com/D510MO-mini-ITX-Intel
why not the new intel?
and then make one a htpc
because i know this works
but if i buy two i might try the 510
if you want a htpc you want a zotac ion one with the onboard intel 9300 so you can do vdpau
oh come on, live on the edge!
or something else with the 9300
yeah youre like 3rd person says this
everyone justs wants you to be the guinea pig
it'll probably be ok ;->
no guarantees though
I agree with both those sentiments
well no guarantees buying a foxconn or asus
ey look at it this way, the mbo costs the same as an 8mm carbide end mill, which you'll snap anyway
i have a taig
i dont pay close to that for endmills
maybe a 10 pack
hss or carbide?
carbide, usually ebay
[04:30:54] <Valen> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131635
thats what you want ;->
its like 1/4" and under
wait no thats what I want
still good deals tho, uncoated but its not like it matters on my machine
i wont use HSS, it wears down and locks steppers and my shit is open loop
the carbide keeps cutting and cycle finished the finish is just all fucked
heh @ atom board remote as cnc controller interface
I want an atom board with hardware virtualisation
[04:34:45] <renesis> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186194&cm_re=d510-_-13-186-194-_-Product
why that one?
thats a d510
is there not an intel one? thats closer to a known working one
because there isnt one on the latency table
is there one of those?
oh wait there was it was passive cooled
big black sink why didnt it pop up...
they still need a fan ;->
[04:36:19] <renesis> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121399
well the case is going to have 120mm fans
thats probably enough
thats where I would be leaning for the EMC machine
those little fans suck
stick 2gb of ram in it
did you use a sata drive?
lol 260gb one
i just got two 500gb sata drives in the mail =\
oh keep in mind the intel ones are VGA output not DVI
that would be neat for an htpc tho
thats my only complaint really with it
i dont care
damn this is going to get expensive
atoms are a bit weak for HTPC, thats why we use the onboard 9300's
i want to buy new drives too, the xylotex blew the z now im using the a for it
yeah i might get something bigger
MESA has some of those ;->
if you want to go servo
i prob not want to buy two after i see the price tag for this one
actually they are pretty reasonable
no i mean whole system after drives and ram and case
bah cases are for pussies ;->
Yeah! Mount it on the wall like art!
i had tons of mobo on my wall at my last place =\
FUNCTIONAL on the wall
not target practice
I meant to have thousands of kg of crap hanging off it it'd have to be a good wall ;->
though I am thinking of framing my TV computer now Jymmm
I wonder what the WAF will be like on that one
renesis you know you dont need much in the way of disk right
you could use like a 2gb USB stick or something
Valen: Hope you like being celbet
[04:49:54] <renesis> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136553
way overkill for EMC
whatever its cool anyway!
i prob get a 5400 rpm samsung
[04:50:56] <Valen> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139149
meant to be $75
i meant instead of that 10Krpm drive you were looking at
[04:53:58] <renesis> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148231
or a samsung same price
thats more like it ;->
yeah now its just an old vs new loyalty thing
i have two new samsung drives already i get the seagate
[04:56:54] <renesis> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226111
sure you want a dual channel kit?
the atom boards are usually only a single ram slot
[04:58:10] <renesis> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageGallery.aspx?CurImage=11-112-227-TS&ISList=11-112-227-S01%2c11-112-227-S02%2c11-112-227-S03%2c11-112-227-S04%2c11-112-227-S05%2c11-112-227-S06%2c11-112-227-S07%2c11-112-227-S08%2c11-112-227-S09%2c11-112-227-S10&S7ImageFlag=1&Item=N82E16811112227&Depa=0&WaterMark=1&Description=LIAN%20LI%20PC-Q07%20Black%20Aluminum%20Mini-ITX%20Tower%20Computer%20Case
the d510 was two, dual channel
(i was like yay)
i got one of the older boxy cases, i <3 it
except for the front port door, headphones only go in right if you hold the little door level while sliding the jack in
finally, emc is running with realtime on 10.04 here!
but i like how this thing got two ports in front
keyboard and mouse ftw
i can totally hack a 120mm fan onto that side vent
standard ATX PS/2 power supply units.
neat im getting it
SWPadnos: (re: earlier discussion of rdf files) Yes, I agree with you completely. Looking at an rdf file is like looking at HTML code instead of looking at a webpage. So I thought I'd ask what rdf viewer everyone was using that made it so important to have those "screwy" files posted there as well as the txt files. And to see what they were seeing. But I guess few are using them?
In case anyone missed the earlier discussion: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/
Ha, I guess that's some kind of recursive reference. I meant the link just to show the list of files (including rdf files). But I guess it also points (or will point soon) to the discussion we had earlier. Oh well, nevermind.
cool www.linuxcnc.org is in Polish now "Strona główna "
Anyone know why touchy wasn't put in 2.3.5 release version?
mozmck2: Wow, that took some time didn't it..
The D510 is a good board. It is like the Intel dual core 330 MiniItx board but faster.
Dave911: 2.3.x releases are bugfix releases
new stuff goes into 2.4.
hmm, milling rubber, does that work ? :)
I know grinding does, often frozen to do it
hard to keep stuff frozen on the mill :/
I worked at a company making printers, we had fun getting the roller company to do what we needed
depends on the rubber
we lathe urithanes somewhat often
its rubber for a car, the one that is from where the fuel comes from and goes into the engine block
hell ive got total blackout on every word today
aparently cant get new ones for this car :/
if you spray rubber with liquid nitrogen you can turn it
i'm sure milling works the same way
my dad used to turn rubber wheels for a extrusion machine, they used to freeze them over night, and turn whilst very cold. the surface finish wasnt pretty but apparently it was good enough
MrSunshine, got a picture of what your trying to make?
[12:53:16] <Valen> http://cgi.ebay.com/GEARMOTOR-HARMONIC-DRIVE-SYSTEMS-100-1-RATIO_W0QQitemZ280487059939QQt_1165#ht_711wt_1165
$100 shipping to get it here
why ain't there a amd64 source of emc2_2.3.5 on http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/emc2.3/source/
I wonder what nickoe meant
Good morning chris
yeah. just noticed that
maybe he thinks the source needs to be different for AMD64 ...
yeah maybe so.
cradek: did you see this? so - is there and more elegent way to convert bits (switches) in ladder to a number? The one way that comes to mind is to have a variable assignment for each switch and then add them togather to get the number - so the first switch would set %w0 to 1 if it was activated - switch two would set %w1 to 2 if it is activated - switch 3 would set %w2 to 4 if it is activated and so on (15 total) and then ad
how about -| |----[%W0=%W0|1]- etc? I think there is bitwise or.
oh - sexy
assuming that's how you "spell" it
I will try it.
or is !
that would be strange (but still possible :) )
nope - |
I like how classicladder can easily be expressed in ascii
I "installed, not a run in place 2.3.5... works fine Then I did a GIT clone etc, and compiled the master. Now I can't get a 5i20 config to run but I can get a regular parallel port stepper config to run???? I get a lot of NML errors writing to blah blah blah ...
I can have an "installation and a run in place" on the same machine .. right? Any ideas?
I meant to say I did a full installation of 2.3.5, not a run in place ....
I compiled the master and installed it as run in place
Dave911: maybe the path to your firmwares is not right in the rip's config you are trying to run
sometimes it's hard to identify the real error...
if you can't find it, pastebin the entire output
OK, that sounds about right ..... where would the path for the firmware be set?
in the hal file, where it is loaded
So I can have an installation and a run in place at the same time.... right?
OK, I'll check the path. It seems to be particular to the 5i20 so firmware makes sense.... I'll check... thanks!
cradek: thanks a bunch - looks like that should work.
and you had the syntax right
The mesa firmware I need is not in the emc2-dev git clone directory .... perhaps I needed another compile switch to compile the firmware also?? I did find the mesa firmware in the lib directory from the original installation..
there's a separate git repository of firmware - it's not with the emc2 source any more
OK, I missed that... how does that work?
well, you check it out just like the emc2 repo, only you use hostmost2-firmware.git instead of emc2.git in the checkout line
I'm not sure you actually need the new firmware though - the old firmware should work
which would mean that you should be able to use the same firmware location as the installed emc2 (/lib/firmware/hm2/whatever)
OK, cool I can do that.... You are probably right, but I knew that I was doing something wrong with the firmware... now I know why... I'll do the git clone on the hostmot2-firmware.git.... just so I know that works... on some other installations I might not have any "old" firmware to reference...
I'm curious.... why wasn't Touchy included in 2.3.5? Anyone know?
(I don't know for sure)
I thought that a number of people had beat on it pretty hard. Isn't Stuart using it also on some machines?? I thought that cradek would have slid it in to 2.3.5.... ;-)
No biggie... just curious...
it will be in 2.4.0. It depends on some things that are not in 2.3.
by all means build the 2.4 git branch if you want to try it out
good morning seb. is your garage ready?
cradek: what is going in its place?
cradek: what is going in its place?
skunkworks_: it will be empty space for a while, I think. I also finally junked the old lathe control. it turns out we had 1.5 tons of scrap metal on the property...
some day in the distant future we may have garage space for two cars again. you never know.
My parents are doing the same thing. Getting rid of stuff they will never use. (steel and copper is pretty decent right now)
I tihnk we got almost 10c/lb for steel scrap
my general plan is to put away, throw away or box up 2 items/tools/things for every 1 I take out until the Hardinge explosion has been cleaned up
heh - I have issues with that. All my project have tools strewn all over the place.
I need a box of a thousand #2 philips screwdrivers
or is it #3 - you know, the one you can never find because you've left them everywhere
all the same length too
that other one that's too small is too small. don't even try to use it.
yes it will sort of fit in the head of the screw. no it won't unscrew it. it'll just mess it up.
and the bigger one won't fit at all
I get the vermont american bits that fit in the drill... then you can buy 10 at a time. :)
just face it the tools will be it the last box you look in
no, they're slightly to the right of whatever I was working on last
[15:23:28] <skunkworks_> http://www.amazon.com/Vermont-American-0102323-Insert-Phillips/dp/B000PIBM0Y
I really like those - they grip really well.
*and I have stock in the company... ;) j/k