#emc | Logs for 2010-04-01

[00:00:47] <DaViruz> or http://www.fenixlight.com/
[00:01:03] <Valen> they are all Al or Ti
[00:01:05] <Valen> soft
[00:01:13] <Valen> theres one stainless one that I've seen
[00:01:40] <DaViruz> inova are Al + Stainless
[00:03:03] <Valen> inova hasnt mentioned stainless on any of the pages I've seen so far
[00:04:39] <DaViruz> hmm seems you're right, only the inova X5 has a stainless head
[00:04:49] <Valen> weak ;->
[00:05:03] <Valen> I am hoping to go all out
[00:05:31] <DaViruz> either way i think you'll be hard pressed to put an inova out of commission :)
[00:05:31] <Valen> saphire window, retained by electroplated nickel so there are no leaks
[00:05:42] <Valen> Its not going to be mass market
[00:06:21] <KimK> cradek: John's BP2 has unequal axis speeds, X & Y are rated at 80 IPM, Z is only rated at 24 IPM. So on G17, only X & Y, so 80 IPM is OK. But for G18,G19 then Z gets dragged into it, so 24 IPM should be max. But I think it's trying to do some faster feed, Z stepper stalling, I'm still gathering data. (I hope this fits in one line!)
[00:06:59] <DaViruz> that's not what i meant, i mean they will probably outlast their owners :P
[00:07:24] <Valen> if its only got an anodised aluminium body it'll get all scratched up and rough pretty quick
[00:08:24] <andypugh> Kimk: I think that is one for the mailing list.
[00:09:59] <andypugh> Yttrium Stabilised Zirconia torch, that's what we want.
[00:10:49] <KimK> andypugh: I don't mean to shout "fire" in the theater, this may already be fixed in 2.4.x and head. I know a lot of fixes are coming soon.
[00:11:25] <andypugh> I don't read the dev list, but I have not heard any mention of changes to the trajectory planner
[00:11:45] <KimK> andypugh: In fact, it may be fixed right here in the shop and I'm doing something wrong, LOL.
[00:11:52] <andypugh> Sure it isn't hardware? Like a PSU drooping?
[00:12:26] <Jymmm> * Jymmm steps on the plane and notice a friend he hasn't seen in years and loudly says HI JACK!
[00:12:54] <pcw_home> I don't even see any Ti flashlights (Ti would be light and longer lasting than Al)
[00:13:10] <Valen> there are Ti ones around in the custom scene
[00:13:20] <JT-Hardinge> pcw_home: I got the 5i20 thanks
[00:13:21] <Valen> but Ti is still pretty soft
[00:13:24] <andypugh> Scandium? Osmium?
[00:13:26] <Valen> keys would scratch it
[00:13:28] <Jymmm> Titanium flashlights? Why bother?
[00:13:51] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge wonders if you have to do a g43 before a tool table touch off???
[00:14:03] <pcw_home> Welcome JT, sorry about the bad one
[00:14:10] <DaViruz> might as well make it out of unobtanium
[00:14:14] <JT-Hardinge> np
[00:14:30] <Valen> KimK: if you look at the velocity it should tell you whats happening
[00:14:33] <JT-Hardinge> now I have to put it back in LOL
[00:14:41] <JT-Hardinge> and clean off the plasma table
[00:14:46] <Valen> also if you limit the feed rate to 24 does it still have a problem
[00:14:51] <Jymmm> All my au flashlights are just fine, even the nbc stick
[00:14:52] <andypugh> I had two consecutive jobs that revolved around applications of Erbium, in very different fields (optical fibres and spring steels)
[00:14:53] <JT-Hardinge> but first I have to play with the dog
[00:15:07] <Valen> nbc stick?
[00:15:11] <andypugh> Au flashlights? You must be very wealthy!
[00:15:22] <Valen> au is platinum isnt it?
[00:15:26] <Jymmm> Valen: 4D cell LED Maglite
[00:15:27] <DaViruz> au is gold
[00:15:30] <andypugh> No, Gold.
[00:15:38] <andypugh> Pt is platinum
[00:15:40] <Jymmm> aluminum
[00:15:40] <ds3> I'll take a an Au or a Pt flashlight! :D
[00:15:49] <Valen> ahh I was thinking pb was gold for some reason (i know its lead)
[00:15:51] <ds3> I'll even accept an Ag flash light ;)
[00:16:09] <Jymmm> Valen: nbc stick == 4D cell LED Maglite
[00:16:10] <andypugh> I want a Hg one!
[00:16:16] <Valen> I'd like a Ne one
[00:16:19] <DaViruz> Valen: maybe your'e a confused alchemist
[00:16:29] <DaViruz> *you're
[00:16:42] <ds3> andypugh: you are one cold.... ;)
[00:17:01] <andypugh> Not as cold as Valen
[00:17:01] <Valen> heh make one out of cesium
[00:17:07] <Jymmm> Valen: As in, If I have to pull it out and hold it by the head...
[00:17:18] <KimK> andypugh: I don't think it's hardware (electronic or mechanical), we've been making a lot of repairs to the BP2, and now we can see smaller and smaller defects (the BP2 is looking *really* good now). It seems to stall about the same place and the same amount, very repeatable, but I am still watching it to catch it in the act and record velocity.
[00:17:19] <Valen> open the box, its all shiny
[00:17:24] <Valen> melts in the hand ;->
[00:17:33] <Jymmm> Valen: then explodes
[00:17:45] <Valen> nah just turns into a radioactive puddle
[00:17:52] <Jymmm> Valen: Cesium?
[00:17:53] <Valen> probably burn a little
[00:18:04] <Valen> its a little bit radioactive or it can be
[00:18:06] <Valen> yeah
[00:18:13] <DaViruz> how about DU for that nice heavy feeling
[00:18:22] <Jymmm> cesium can explode upon contact with moisture
[00:18:23] <Valen> I can get that
[00:18:50] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uixxJtJPVXk
[00:18:50] <Jymmm> I was REAL CAREFUL working with it.
[00:18:53] <Valen> I didn't think it was as bad as say lithium
[00:18:56] <DaViruz> not only can, in all likelyhood will
[00:18:59] <andypugh> You do the first 4 at school....
[00:19:01] <Valen> or sodium
[00:19:13] <ds3> Valen: it is worse
[00:19:14] <andypugh> Watch the Youtube...
[00:19:14] <Jymmm> Valen: Cesium gas actually (in my case)
[00:19:24] <ds3> it gets more reactive as you go down that column
[00:19:41] <ds3> for more fun... toss some of that in a chamber of F2
[00:19:54] <Valen> yeah right you are
[00:20:17] <Valen> don't know why I figured it'd be less reactive
[00:21:58] <Valen> I was trying once to work out what a good electrolyte for a cesium/flourine battery would be
[00:22:40] <Jymmm> FUUUUUCK!!!! I would have been *SO* screwed when I did work with cesium. Glad I didn't know it was THAT reactive!!!
[00:22:53] <DaViruz> how about nitroglycerine
[00:22:55] <DaViruz> :P
[00:23:09] <ds3> good thing is Ce is not too common
[00:23:28] <Valen> Jymmm what were you doing?
[00:23:33] <Jymmm> No, not as much as cesium, becase it was under power and and turned into a gas.
[00:24:17] <DaViruz> good thing it's called Cs
[00:24:46] <ds3> DOH
[00:24:49] <andypugh> Cs gas NE CS gas
[00:25:19] <ds3> oops Ce is Cerium
[00:25:40] <ds3> I can remember the location on the table of elements but not the symbols :/
[00:26:09] <DaViruz> yeah i only picked up on it because i was looking at a pack of cerium enamelled TIG electrodes earlier ;)
[00:26:17] <ds3> ahahah
[00:26:20] <Jymmm> Valen: Environmental Testing... IR countermeasure system under power - 7G Vibration testing on 110lb magnesium vibration table connected to 220V 3ph coil. The amplifer cabinet itself was 8ft wide, 7ft tall, and water cooled from the tower on the roof. AND to top it off.... roof leaking into the 440@400A channels in the floor
[00:26:35] <DaViruz> hmm, enamelled, that can't be right
[00:26:48] <Valen> plated perhaps?
[00:27:00] <andypugh> I play a game with a chemist friend "I spy with my little eye, and element beginning with P" "Plutonium?" "No" "Lead?" "Yes, your turn"
[00:27:21] <DaViruz> alloyed!
[00:27:34] <Jymmm> Valen: ALQ-157 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALQ-144
[00:27:36] <Valen> http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/ is a good site
[00:28:01] <andypugh> How does a 3P coil work?
[00:29:36] <Jymmm> Valen: See the things sticking out to the far left and right (with the angled support arms)
[00:29:37] <Jymmm> http://www.skycontrol.net/UserFiles/Image/Photography_img/200712/200712philip-stevens-dust-devils-2b.jpg
[00:30:06] <Valen> yeah
[00:30:14] <Valen> what was the ceseum for?
[00:30:47] <Jymmm> Valen: That's ALQ-157. Yep each one has a "light bulb" filled with cesium with a double ruby envelope encasing it all.
[00:30:56] <Valen> ahh
[00:31:11] <Valen> so the cesium is basically being an arc light
[00:32:10] <andypugh> Jymmm: Interesting contrast to another state-of-the-art martial force projection system: http://www.supershipsworld.com/HMS%20Victory.jpg
[00:32:40] <Jymmm> looks like a giant bee =)
[00:32:59] <andypugh> With three rows of spiracles?
[00:34:49] <andypugh> I wonder how they rememberd what each bit of string did?
[01:32:51] <andypugh> Does anyone know what is involved in driving "AC Servos"?
[01:33:47] <Valen> depends on the type of motor
[01:33:58] <Valen> if its induction your on your own ;->
[01:34:17] <andypugh> I suspect that they are.
[01:36:39] <pcw_home> Ive seen a paper on using a induction motor as a servo and getting good performance but its tricky
[01:36:40] <Valen> yeah they have all sorts of crap with rotating magnetic fields and stuff
[01:37:35] <pcw_home> Most people just use synchronous PM (so called BLDC)
[01:38:04] <andypugh> Hmm, actually these are Synchronous AC Brushless Servos
[01:38:32] <pcw_home> Synchronous is easy
[01:38:49] <andypugh> They have Hall sensors, so that makes them PM?
[01:38:59] <pcw_home> PM rotor
[01:40:09] <andypugh> 7,2Nm
[01:40:11] <pcw_home> And Hall for coarse rotor position
[01:40:27] <andypugh> Resolver feedback :-/
[01:40:49] <andypugh> (and 480V)
[01:40:53] <pcw_home> I like resolvers (and you dont need the hals if you have a resolver)
[01:41:31] <andypugh> There are a set of 3 of them on eBay for £50
[01:41:47] <pcw_home> since the resolver will give you rotor position
[01:41:50] <Valen> they are basically big steppers
[01:42:20] <pcw_home> (but nobody runs them that way)
[01:42:23] <andypugh> How do you handle resolver-EMC2?
[01:42:43] <pcw_home> Im working on a solution
[01:43:04] <Valen> the motor driver needs the resolver input so it can drive the motors, you can then pass that through to emc if you want
[01:43:06] <andypugh> I have wondered if an off-the-shelf LVDT decoder would work.
[01:43:24] <pcw_home> If you dont need absolute, you can use a resolver-quadrature converter
[01:43:41] <andypugh> Thing is, Resolver is analogue, and EMC is digital
[01:43:42] <Valen> encoder on one of those will need to be absolute I'd imagine
[01:43:48] <Valen> ahh
[01:44:01] <Valen> stupidly fast ADC + micro?
[01:44:15] <andypugh> It's not DC-analogue..
[01:44:21] <cradek> pcw_home: are you working on something like a resolver-input version of the 7i33?
[01:44:36] <Valen> whats the output of a resolver then?
[01:44:41] <andypugh> How much? Can I have it by the weekend?
[01:45:01] <pcw_home> Yes, 7I49 6 channel resolver + 6 +-10V outputs
[01:45:13] <andypugh> Valen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolver_(electrical)
[01:45:15] <cradek> wow
[01:45:33] <cradek> that would be really slick
[01:45:52] <andypugh> Errr, guide price? I am suddenly very interested in this ebay auction..
[01:46:00] <cradek> especially if you could optionally bypass some of them and feed in quadrature instead
[01:46:09] <Valen> andypugh whats the acution?
[01:46:10] <andypugh> No rush
[01:46:25] <andypugh> Valen: Not telling :-)
[01:46:34] <cradek> haha
[01:46:45] <Valen> lol I'm in Australia, it'd probably cost $900 to ship them here
[01:46:59] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250601674134
[01:47:12] <Valen> besides I've just gotten a stack of 500W allen bradley bldc + drivers for like $30 each
[01:47:17] <Valen> with harmonic gearboxes
[01:47:39] <andypugh> Now I know that these are basically BLDC they look a lot more tempting.
[01:47:46] <Valen> yeah they look the same or similar to the ones we got
[01:48:04] <Valen> the plug on the back is for the encoder
[01:48:10] <andypugh> Oops! I just pressed the "buy" button
[01:48:12] <Valen> well ours come with a 2048 count encoder on them
[01:48:14] <Valen> lol
[01:48:25] <Valen> tripped over huh
[01:48:38] <cradek> 7i49 is 6 channels for $184 holy crap
[01:49:02] <Valen> I'm debating the best way of driving our rotary table
[01:49:04] <cradek> does hm2 support these 6 channel boards 7i48/7i49 already?
[01:49:23] <Valen> the controller can operate with step + dir signals or as a +-10v servo
[01:49:24] <pcw_home> 7i48 yes with Jeplers patch
[01:49:27] <andypugh> That could be a "killer app" in the retrofit market
[01:49:35] <cradek> sweet.
[01:50:00] <Valen> I'm worried about the +-10v signal though that it could wander and drift being analog,
[01:50:18] <cradek> Valen: that's why there's an encoder
[01:50:24] <andypugh> Doesn't matter. It's part of the control loop
[01:50:31] <Valen> the upside is that EMC gets the encoder info back from the motor
[01:50:43] <cradek> trust us, servo loops work :-)
[01:51:03] <Valen> yeah, but in step + dir mode the controller I believe operates the motor as a stepper, so i feel it could be stiffer
[01:51:08] <andypugh> To a large extent it only needs to be "a bit more, a bit less, now a nudge the other way"
[01:51:15] <Jymmm> Never believe anyone that says "Trust Me"
[01:51:21] <cradek> heh
[01:51:23] <Valen> this is trying to hold a rotary table though
[01:51:33] <Valen> we have servo's on all the other axies
[01:51:41] <Jymmm> cradek: :)
[01:51:47] <Valen> but they are at least "digital"
[01:51:50] <Valen> PWM + direction
[01:51:55] <andypugh> step+dir is for folk who only understand steppers and are shy of PID
[01:52:03] <pcw_home> 7I49 support will be different as it requires some setup and has a different register map
[01:52:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'm not shy of PID, just $$$$$$
[01:52:14] <cradek> seems like whether it holds still is a matter of the quality of the worm engagement more than the motor
[01:52:27] <Valen> its a 100:1 harmonic drive
[01:52:48] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/user/zyeborm?feature=mhw5#p/a/u/1/g2N910jNOnE
[01:53:16] <Valen> so there should be no backlash
[01:54:46] <andypugh> If it is a servo motor then the step+direction drive is just handling the servo loop internally rather than letting EMC do the work. Where would you rather it happened? Personally I would go for "where halscope can see it"
[01:55:48] <pcw_home> and where you can have a dynamic ferror limit
[01:55:50] <cradek> I agree the control mode probably doesn't matter for stiffness - but if emc has the feedback, you can see any deflection and tune it yourself
[01:56:18] <Valen> I was just saying I believe it operates the motor somewhat differently
[01:56:24] <cradek> and if it faults, it'll stop motion but not lose position
[01:56:34] <Valen> also I need more stuff to get a +-10v signal out
[01:56:35] <cradek> why do you believe that?
[01:56:47] <Valen> vuagley recall something in the manual about it
[01:56:53] <cradek> ah
[01:57:05] <andypugh> "More stuff" = A capacitor and a resistor :-)
[01:57:26] <pcw_home> Yes it operates differently because it runs its own position loop
[01:57:26] <Valen> that wont get me from PWM + dir to +-10v
[01:57:32] <Valen> it would do 0-10v
[01:57:58] <andypugh> True. Many drives are 0-10V and direction though.
[01:58:11] <Valen> I would love it if that were the case
[01:58:37] <andypugh> To get +/- 10V you need a relay too (or, more practically, a solid-state equivalent)
[01:58:47] <pcw_home> well a single PWM will give you +- 10 if you have the right offset...
[01:58:51] <Valen> relay would be to crappy around the zero point
[01:59:17] <Valen> I'm using the mesa product chain, and I'm not sure how to tell it to do that lol ;->
[01:59:35] <andypugh> Good point there from the man who sells PWM to +/- 10V hardware.
[01:59:38] <Valen> there is a mesa product to give +-10v outs
[01:59:51] <Valen> but last i looked it was 4 chans wasnt it?
[02:00:03] <andypugh> You know that pcw _is_ Mesa?
[02:00:07] <Valen> yeah
[02:00:33] <andypugh> Sorry, I inferred a missing question mark
[02:00:36] <Valen> 's why i subtly talk about mesa stuff in here to get free tech support ;->
[02:01:25] <andypugh> There are inexpensive single-chip solutions for motor drive that would work too.
[02:01:28] <Valen> hmm $80
[02:01:39] <pcw_home> Its very simple, just a few op-amps and a CMOS buffer powered by a voltage reference
[02:01:41] <pcw_home> 7I33 uses a mosfet switc for direction, 7I48 uses up/down mode and differential amp
[02:02:26] <Valen> I spose an audio amp style with +-10v rails (or so) and an offset would do it but I hate analog electronics
[02:02:57] <Valen> step + direction I should be able to get working just off GPIO through the interface card I already have
[02:02:58] <pcw_home> if your amp has PWM+DIR just use that
[02:03:05] <Valen> I would if it had it
[02:03:09] <Valen> it does not
[02:03:14] <Valen> step + dir and +-10V
[02:03:32] <Valen> or RS232 but that isnt in EMC
[02:03:53] <pcw_home> actually I am not Mesa, they were running just fine without me so far this week
[02:04:26] <andypugh> This chip looks fun, 3A of 50-450V takes Hall inputs and all the power electronics is on-chip. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=0415219
[02:04:41] <Valen> that's really the question I spose, is it worth $80 (or a large amount of time) to get the signals into EMC, and have it run the PID, or is using the thing in step+dir good enough
[02:05:33] <andypugh> If step+dir is there and ready to go, then try it.
[02:05:50] <Valen> need to learn lots more EMC too for that lol
[02:06:31] <pcw_home> You really dont want to use direct Hall commutation for a servo system, for a fan, ok
[02:06:32] <Valen> have to work out how to a) tell the mesa stuff to have a step+dir output b) add an axis, c)hook them togther
[02:06:59] <andypugh> But I don't like the idea of stacking control loops (we have them 3 and 4 deep at work, and it makes for interesting tuning. ie there are 20 of us who spend 2 years tuning each new application)
[02:07:28] <Valen> andypugh, for the brushless motors we are doing I'm planning on using a rotary magnet sensor for absolute position sensing
[02:07:49] <pcw_home> d deal with the weird pinouts of the stepgens on the standard bitfiles
[02:07:50] <Valen> gives 256 counts per turn and serials out the postion at up to 30k RPM
[02:08:08] <Valen> pcw_home tell me about it
[02:08:13] <andypugh> pcw_home: I thought that the hall sensors were just to tell the drive where to send the current to get theexpected result?
[02:08:37] <Valen> as you go to higher speeds you need "advance"
[02:09:19] <pcw_home> They (the Halls) are fine if you want the motor to act a a 3 segment armature DC motor
[02:09:22] <andypugh> Serial absolute encoders is complicating things. Quadrature into a mesa card is simple and relaible.
[02:09:52] <andypugh> pcw_home: That was what I was expecting to do. There are cleverer ways?
[02:09:53] <Valen> andypugh, yeah but you dont get 3 phase drive signals out of that
[02:10:05] <pcw_home> Absolute is ideal for BLDC
[02:11:56] <Valen> pcw_home since I'll be running 3x mesa style amp chans and one of the analog style, is there any harm in leaving 25 pins of the card floating?
[02:12:00] <andypugh> I recall hearing that Hostmot2 already has a way of producing phase-drive signals for a BLDC from the encoder position
[02:12:35] <Valen> yeah but last I looked EMC cant use it, I think it was in the motion control system that we don't use
[02:12:39] <pcw_home> The problem is cogginess. You can use a quadrature encoder for commutation, but you need an absolute reference to get started
[02:12:41] <pcw_home> once started the three phase reference angle is just P mod encoder count
[02:12:53] <andypugh> Valen: Connct them to LEDS to blink patterns and look technical.
[02:13:00] <Valen> lol
[02:13:47] <andypugh> More seriously, they will surely be needed for general IO like limit switches etc?
[02:14:54] <Valen> I have 4 servo chanels 3 of which are in 7i40's (well 4 currently)
[02:14:58] <pcw_home> Theres a three phase PWM module that should be easy for EMC to drive
[02:15:00] <pcw_home> but all the details of commutation would probably need HAL components
[02:15:01] <andypugh> I have a theory that IO requirements always grow to fit the pins available.
[02:15:14] <Valen> hmm
[02:15:20] <Valen> actually that might work
[02:15:29] <Valen> its dodgy but still
[02:15:40] <andypugh> What's dodgy?
[02:15:43] <Valen> feed the 7i40 with +-10v (or whatever)
[02:15:59] <Jymmm> andypugh: AMC Gremlin
[02:16:14] <Valen> hook one terminal up as ground and the other as the +-10v input
[02:16:25] <andypugh> Good point, but possibly not _the_ point
[02:16:34] <Valen> some smoothing caps and a resistor to suck the caps down
[02:16:47] <Valen> that gives a +-10v output
[02:16:58] <Valen> with all existing parts
[02:18:29] <andypugh> <googles the Gremlin> Funny how US "subcompacts" are still huge. Even the US-market Fiesta has grown more wheelbase and a boot (trunk) on the back, and looks a mess.
[02:19:08] <Valen> be scary to drive something like a smart there
[02:20:01] <Jymmm> Smart Cars are scary to look at, much less be in one.
[02:20:03] <andypugh> Ah, checking http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/fiesta/ you do get the hatchback too, which looks better.
[02:21:00] <andypugh> I rented a Smart a while back, it was by far the cheapest way to get from Cervinia to Val d'Isere for back-to-back skiing holidays.
[02:21:36] <andypugh> (and yes, there was plenty of room inside for skis and luggage with only one person)
[02:23:08] <andypugh> And I am curious as to what would be scary about driving a Smart in the US? They are quick enough to not be in the way, they steer and have brakes. What's the problem?
[02:23:23] <Valen> your surrounded by "trucks"
[02:23:29] <andypugh> And?
[02:23:50] <Valen> well i'd imagine its something akin to why riding a motorbike is dangerous here
[02:23:55] <andypugh> Do they habitually drive over other cars?
[02:23:56] <Valen> you loose any fight you get into
[02:24:00] <Valen> they are americans
[02:24:06] <pcw_home> "pcw_home since I'll be running 3x mesa style amp chans and one of the analog style, is there any harm in leaving 25 pins of the card floating?"
[02:24:08] <pcw_home> No the daughter cards have pullups on appropriate pins so are fine if disconnected
[02:24:21] <andypugh> The Smart actually has very good occupant protection.
[02:25:12] <andypugh> But then I have never owned a car :-) I have always used a motorbike.
[02:25:15] <Valen> pcw_home: ok so It would be a matter of just splitting the ribbon cable from the mesa card and putting 25 into one and 25 into the other, and supplying both with external 5v power
[02:25:52] <Valen> andypugh: it is probably very good, but KE is KE, and about the only thing to reduce the other guys KE is mass
[02:26:53] <pcw_home> Yes for most cards (some newer ones have SPI or common enables so are tricker to use partials)
[02:26:57] <andypugh> There is 5V power on the ribbon cable, you might be able to have multiple connectors on the same ribbon cable, threaded such that only some lines go to some connectors, but all get the 5V and enough grounds,
[02:27:11] <Valen> I supply external power anyway
[02:27:24] <Valen> theres only one +5v on the ribbon
[02:28:40] <andypugh> If it is more than signal power then that makes sense I think, though I seem to recall that the 5V pin on the connector has a not insignificant current rating.
[02:28:55] <pcw_home> I've considered using half the grounds as +5V but making it compatible is a bit tricky
[02:28:58] <Valen> I was trying to run encoders off it
[02:29:35] <Valen> It would make sense to have more +5v, after a half meter of ribbon theres not much power left really
[02:29:51] <andypugh> I would imagine it would run encoders no trouble? But I feel nervous having any opinion at all when pcw is here
[02:29:59] <Valen> it didn't
[02:30:07] <Valen> voltage dropped too much
[02:30:39] <pcw_home> Most modern encoders are OK (maybe 50 mA each) but older ones may be 100 -300 mA
[02:30:59] <Valen> these are pretty new, but there were 3 of them
[02:31:28] <Valen> I plugged one in and the voltage was something like 4.3volts so i went screw it and wired in external power
[02:31:30] <pcw_home> Also differential drivers draw more
[02:31:46] <Valen> its the size of the conductor in the ribbon cable thats the problem
[02:32:06] <pcw_home> Yes its just 28 Gauge
[02:33:37] <pcw_home> Also the 7I40 draws 5V power as well (a 7I33 usually much less)
[02:33:43] <Valen> what did you think of the "dodgy" method using the existing 7i40 and shifting ground around a whole bunch ;->
[02:34:28] <pcw_home> Well it wont work very well unless your amp has really good common mode rejection
[02:34:49] <Valen> why would that be different to normal?
[02:35:02] <pcw_home> also it will have a large dead band at 0
[02:35:28] <Valen> that would come down to tuning of the RC circuit no?
[02:36:20] <pcw_home> is the analog input differential?
[02:36:41] <andypugh> Right, 0330 here, I ought to be asleep.
[02:36:46] <Valen> I was going to hook one output to ground, that should make it effectivley differential
[02:37:46] <pcw_home> That wont work as the output are not floating (you will just short it out when it drives high)
[02:38:07] <pcw_home> (outputs)
[02:39:25] <pcw_home> I'll cut a 7I33 in 1/4s and send you one
[02:40:53] <Valen> the inputs to the other module are floating however
[02:47:04] <pcw_home> Sort of iffy to drive their "ground" with a noisy signal floating or not
[02:48:39] <pcw_home> its awkward since you only need one channel, I would probably live with step+dir
[02:49:27] <mozmck> those Smart cars only say they get an estimated 41 mpg. not even as good as a VW jetta...
[02:49:33] <mozmck> diesel that is.
[02:50:35] <pcw_home> Wasn't the smart car originally supposed to be electric but they couldn't do it?
[02:50:48] <mozmck> I don't know
[02:51:04] <toastydeath> nitromethane, the right choice for alternative fuel
[02:51:58] <pcw_home> ISTR reading that
[02:52:41] <mozmck> I want a steam car... the old doble were pretty interesting
[02:53:09] <pcw_home> I remember nitromethane from model airplane fuel
[02:53:15] <toastydeath> you need a top hat, monocle, and tails for any steam traction engine
[02:53:34] <toastydeath> pcw_home, what does "istr" mean
[02:53:39] <WalterN> anybody want a ringtone I made out of the game DeusEx theme song?
[02:53:49] <pcw_home> I seem To Recall
[02:54:15] <WalterN> it dosent quite blend from end to end though... for a ringtone it should be fine :P
[02:54:17] <toastydeath> nitromethane is the "top fuel" from "top fuel drag racing"
[02:55:45] <mozmck> nah, most steam traction engineers I've seen wear the typical old railroad style hats or straw maybe
[02:56:10] <toastydeath> i maintain it's not steampunk unless there's a monocle
[02:58:26] <cradek> brass goggles are also well established, it seems
[02:59:21] <mozmck> could be. I've been to a tractor show near here with a couple dozen steam tractors several times. neat stuff.
[02:59:54] <mozmck> friend of mine owns a couple tractors there and I've operated them some.
[03:00:20] <toastydeath> brass goggles are an acceptable substitute
[03:00:23] <cradek> neat
[03:00:34] <cradek> I occasionally need a tractor, but not often enough to have a tractor
[03:00:46] <cradek> I'd want it to run on gas or diesel though...
[03:00:57] <WalterN> what do you need the tractor for?
[03:01:06] <WalterN> moving dirt? dog poo?
[03:01:17] <WalterN> dead bodies?
[03:01:18] <cradek> moving hay and dirt mostly
[03:01:18] <mozmck> I have a couple of tractors that are both broken right now.
[03:01:30] <cradek> well that's the natural state of all machines
[03:01:37] <mozmck> need to get time to work on them
[03:02:15] <mozmck> I don't have anything gas except small engines. everything else is diesel.
[03:02:54] <KimK> cradek: Can I bother you again? I can't seem to increase the maximum velocity slider above the highest [AXIS_n] MAX_VELOCITY=. I have a [TRAJ] MAX_VELOCITY= that should be high enough, but EMC2 doesn't seem to accept it. If I have X at 80 IPM and Y at 80 IPM, shouldn't I set [TRAJ]MAX to sqrt(80**2+80**2) or about 113?) I'd appreciate any advice you may have.
[03:04:35] <KimK> hi mozmck
[03:04:45] <mozmck> hi KimK
[03:05:59] <cradek> mv = inifile.find("TRAJ","MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY") or inifile.find("AXIS_0","MAX_VELOCITY") or 1.0
[03:06:12] <cradek> looks like the way to set the top of the maxvel slider is with [TRAJ]MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY
[03:06:35] <cradek> [TRAJ]MAX_VELOCITY is defunct because it made no sense for mixed-units (linear vs rotary) machines
[03:07:11] <cradek> so now we have MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY and MAX_ANGULAR_VELOCITY
[03:08:24] <KimK> OK, thanks very much. Is there a list of deprecated ini stuff so I can look for it and get rid of it? Or if it's not in the latest integrator's manual should I assume it's deprecated?
[03:09:17] <cradek> the closest thing might be the release notes, but even that's a bit shaky
[03:09:31] <cradek> even our sample configs are probably not totally clean
[03:10:01] <cradek> we try hard to make old configs still be accepted and work at least mostly, so stuff like that takes forever to become extinct
[03:11:10] <KimK> That's OK, I don't mind getting rid of cruft manually.
[03:11:15] <Valen> mozmck use a water spray boiler steam engine ;->
[03:12:12] <cradek> KimK: fwiw, you can see the relevant change under 2.3.2 on here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Released
[03:13:39] <mozmck> Valen: water spray? you mean injected super heated water?
[03:14:29] <cradek> mozmck: how cold does it get down there? I'm tempted to try a diesel next time I buy a car, but I'm worried about reliability in winter.
[03:14:53] <Valen> its a way of making a boiler, you have a plate you run your burners on to, then spray water onto the back side of it flashing it to superheated steam
[03:15:04] <cradek> stuart in kansas told me he uses a hair dryer to start his sometimes, and if's supposed to hit -15, he lets it run all night
[03:15:09] <mozmck> It was down in the teens a good bit this year
[03:15:36] <cradek> er maybe +15, I don't remember the temperature he said
[03:15:54] <mozmck> most diesels have a block heater you can plug in that will make them start very well in quite cold weather
[03:16:23] <cradek> yeah, the problem would be in the parking lot at work after dark...
[03:16:28] <mozmck> my truck (powerstroke) started at 17 degrees but it didn't want too
[03:16:32] <mozmck> to
[03:16:41] <mozmck> had to cycle the glow plugs a few times
[03:16:53] <KimK> cradek (& everyone): Thanks very much for your help, I'll resume working on it tomorrow and let you know. If anyone thinks of any more advice, please do write it and I'll scroll back later and read it. Thanks again. Goodnight all.
[03:17:01] <cradek> I should have tried the bus when it was ultra cold
[03:17:06] <cradek> KimK: anytime, goodnight
[03:17:08] <mozmck> A newer diesel would probably do better.
[03:17:22] <mozmck> Valen: I see.
[03:17:29] <cradek> both engines on the bus heat the air intake, not the cylinders
[03:17:41] <cradek> it seems to work great (seems surprising to me)
[03:18:22] <mozmck> the doble cars used a flash boiler that was up to pressure in 30 seconds from the time it was fired up.
[03:18:34] <Valen> cradek a direct injection diesel should be fine provided the fuel is a liquid
[03:18:49] <Valen> sounds like the same system mozmck
[03:19:17] <mozmck> cradek: my truck has a fuel preheater as well.
[03:19:47] <mozmck> Valen, I'm not sure. I know they had the water and steam in a coil of tubes and the fire around them
[03:19:59] <cradek> these new little clean diesel cars will be on the cheap used market in 5-10 years which is when I'll next be looking for a car (I hope)
[03:20:12] <Valen> mozmck: not the siberian solution?, they run the radiator water back into the fuel tank to keep it liquid ;->
[03:20:17] <mozmck> they also call them water tube boilers as opposed to the fire tube boilers like a locomotive.
[03:20:28] <Valen> cradek: go electric ;->
[03:20:52] <cradek> Valen: yeah, so tempting to try building it myself
[03:21:01] <Valen> I know a guy who has
[03:21:03] <Valen> its not too hard
[03:21:05] <cradek> Valen: I've an eye out for a suitable little project car
[03:21:16] <Valen> get one without power steering if you can
[03:21:22] <cradek> yeah of course
[03:21:31] <cradek> no power anything is a big requirement
[03:21:32] <Valen> http://www.evcapri.com/
[03:21:35] <cradek> brakes too
[03:21:42] <Valen> you can have vacuume brakes
[03:21:52] <Valen> you can power everything else
[03:22:04] <mozmck> the fuel preheater is in the line just before the injection pump. up north they actually put anti-gel additives in the diesel before it goes to the gas stations (or so I have heard)
[03:22:04] <cradek> I know brakes don't take much vacuum, but still that's an unnecessary additional pain
[03:22:05] <Valen> electric power steering is probably ok too
[03:22:38] <Valen> its about $150 for a vacuume pump setup and it means you can use cars made in the last 30 years ;->
[03:22:44] <mozmck> there are electric brake boosters I've heard.
[03:22:48] <cradek> some days I'm so sad I traded in my toyota mr2 with the shot engine - perfect for electric
[03:23:00] <cradek> it had no power anything
[03:23:15] <toastydeath> great track cars
[03:24:06] <mozmck> I figure if everyone starts going electric it'll take the grid down.
[03:24:12] <cradek> I loved it, best car ever, but I was faced with spending thousands for a new engine, and then it'd be 20 years old and if someone ran into me I'd be out that cash.
[03:25:01] <cradek> mozmck: the grid already handles peak air conditioning times in the afternoon. charging cars overnight is no worse is it?
[03:25:23] <toastydeath> Arc furnaces run overnight for that exact reason
[03:25:24] <mozmck> I don't know. maybe not.
[03:25:46] <cradek> if people don't naturally load balance, they could adjust the price during peak times, and then they would.
[03:26:28] <toastydeath> or perhaps the cars would load balance
[03:26:56] <morfic> it's cheaper to charge electric ovens at night in germany, giving off stored heat during day, people learn quick that way
[03:28:14] <mozmck> Valen: http://www.flashsteam.com/
[03:29:04] <Valen> there is a plan to have all the cars wired to a "smart grid"
[03:29:17] <Valen> so that charging is spread around and you don't get hot spots
[03:29:44] <Valen> there is also plans to use the cars as a peak load source to sell energy back to the grid
[03:29:52] <Valen> but I think thats not goign to happen
[03:31:02] <mozmck> man, my kernel compile on 10.04 beta1 has been going for over 2 hours I think!
[03:31:22] <mozmck> on a pentium4 3.4 ghz
[03:31:53] <Valen> wow thats nasty
[03:32:07] <Valen> I'm guessing your disk limited?
[03:32:42] <Valen> mozmck think I might be able to purchase a bit of inconel off you guys? about hand sized?
[03:33:15] <mozmck> disk limited? it's on a 28 gig partition...
[03:33:23] <mozmck> what's inconel?
[03:33:25] <Valen> i meant disk IO
[03:33:42] <Jymmm> mozmck: Nickle chrome
[03:33:44] <Valen> sorry thought you were morfic
[03:34:18] <Jymmm> mozmck: Ni-Chrome is the generic name. Inconnel is the brand name
[03:34:24] <mozmck> oh, I don't know. It's a dell GX280 I think
[03:35:00] <Valen> cant find anybody in australia who has the stuff
[03:35:25] <Valen> yeah its probably got a slow disk mozmck
[03:35:32] <mozmck> ah. no, I'm not morfic, and don't think I have any Ni-Chrome other than maybe plating on an old backhoe cylinder rod. (if that's what it is)
[03:35:32] <morfic> Valen: not sure if my boss would bother with a small junk to australia, especially right now during the whole company splitting into sales company and manufacturing company
[03:35:54] <Valen> no worries morfic thanks anyway
[03:36:15] <Valen> you just sand cast it or something fancier?
[03:36:53] <morfic> some they cast differently, using plastic cores if needed, most is sand cast
[03:37:26] <Valen> cool I wasn't sure the sand would be up to it ;-> 718 is kinda noted for its high temperature properties
[03:39:27] <morfic> mozmck: did you make or make -j2, looking in top, do you see a lot of wa (wait)
[03:40:11] <morfic> seeing our centrifugal molds spin up, especially the 36" one is wicked
[03:40:28] <mozmck> I'll have to go check top (it may be done now though). I'm using the ubuntu way so I ran debian/rules binary-rtai :)
[03:41:51] <Valen> lol being game huh ;-> trying for EMC2?
[03:42:52] <Valen> gcc has optimisations for atom CPU's now, I wonder how much difference that would make
[03:43:11] <mozmck> oh, I've done emc2 realtime on 9.04 and 9.10 as well.
[03:44:00] <mozmck> glad you mentioned top morfic. there were two instances of gvfsd-smb at the top taking 49% each
[03:44:18] <morfic> what kind of blocks/s could i expect from something like a core2duo or athlon64 X2 int he 2GHz range?
[03:44:31] <Valen> blocks/s?
[03:44:36] <morfic> mozmck: i hate IO choking me down, i always look who to kill for it
[03:44:39] <mozmck> that's a bug I've run into on lucid. so I killed them and it seems to be compiling faster now.
[03:44:54] <Valen> I have always been meaning to try distributed compiling
[03:45:28] <morfic> Valen: if you have multiple instances and they all have matching gcc and binutils, then distcc can be mighty fun for larger things
[03:45:38] <mozmck> my athlon64 x2 5800 (3ghz) takes about an hour to compile and build packages for a kernel
[03:47:04] <morfic> maybe a ubuntu kernel with everything and their mother turned on?
[03:47:28] <mozmck> yes, ubuntu git tree with minimal config changes for rtai
[03:49:03] <morfic> with blocks/second i would like to get an idea about gcode processing, if it has enough of an effect on max feedrate, perhaps i am asking it the wrong way, maybe i should ask "what is the limiting factor in EMC2 if it can not reach the servo's max speed"
[03:50:14] <Valen> sounds like your config is off if you cant hit the servo's max speed
[03:50:54] <mozmck> reading encoder counts?
[03:51:16] <morfic> i am only gathering info, trying to get an idea about stuff my boss is going to ask me
[03:51:17] <SWPadnos> if you see that a program doesn't get to the programmed speed, but you know that EMC2 has driven the servos faster at other times, then the problem probably lies with acceleration or lookahead
[03:52:03] <morfic> this one is based on coming across some (older) threads where feedrates were limited to something too low to be suitable, iirc, they maxed out at F22.
[03:52:37] <SWPadnos> assuming that you're not hitting a configured limit of EMC2 (ie, you have not over-restricted the acceleration or velocity), and you haven't hit the feed override or something else silly, there are only two things that (should) limit execution speed
[03:53:12] <SWPadnos> one is segments that are too small - like having 10000 G1 moves of 0.0001 inch each instead of a 1" move (or an arc)
[03:53:33] <morfic> SWPadnos: i am looking for something like "with emc2 you can achieve 3D surfacing speeds of up to X inches/min, provided your hardware supports it" to see if we are only *going to be* limited by our hardware and not by emc2
[03:53:37] <SWPadnos> two is acceleration - corners theoretically require infinite acceleration, which of course you don't have on real machines
[03:53:49] <SWPadnos> there is no X to tell you
[03:53:59] <SWPadnos> it's dependent on the G-code and the machine specs
[03:54:39] <morfic> well, current post does output a lot of G1 for 3D surfacing, never liked that
[03:54:44] <SWPadnos> one constraint that EMC2 always obeys is that it will never move fast enough such that it can't slow to a stop at the end of the segment
[03:55:11] <SWPadnos> you can set a path following tolerance with G64 Pnn
[03:55:45] <SWPadnos> when you do that, the interpreter will combine as many short segments as it can without deviating more than nn from the programmed path
[03:56:17] <SWPadnos> as far as block processing speed, a slow-ish computer can process on the order of 1000 blocks/second
[03:56:32] <SWPadnos> if you need that, you haven't programmed your CAM right :)
[04:04:16] <morfic> well, that's good news
[04:05:13] <morfic> SWPadnos: i tend to blame the post, i had a post i could use w/o proofreading the code before i run it, provided i did the work in the cam software right, but now i proofread code or suffer
[04:05:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:05:38] <morfic> well, suffering is limited, we do run it through vericut, still can be trouble some at time
[04:05:39] <SWPadnos> the 3d preview is a good thing too
[04:07:02] <morfic> i am too tired tonight to take in anymore reading on the website, hence this basic question, i know i will be asked what would limit its speed, and i just say "a bad post might", which should hit camsoft or all others alike
[04:07:24] <SWPadnos> it's lookahead that does it, more or less
[04:07:32] <morfic> SWPadnos: do EMC2 developers do contract work to add features to emc2?
[04:07:38] <SWPadnos> the EMC2 motion controller only looks a couple of segments ahead
[04:07:47] <SWPadnos> morfic, no, not really
[04:08:05] <SWPadnos> there's nothing that prevents us from doing so, and a few things have been done for pay
[04:08:23] <morfic> because noone asks or because none of you have time, ok i guess you meant noone asks?
[04:08:51] <SWPadnos> well, many of us have day jobs that could be an issue
[04:08:59] <SWPadnos> (not me, I'm an independent consultant :) )
[04:09:31] <SWPadnos> there aren't a lot of requests where the requester actually offers to pay though :)
[04:10:24] <SWPadnos> they're usually more like "it would be cool if ...", or "EMC2 sucks because other controls do X better/how I like it"
[04:10:26] <morfic> i'm just asking, in todays meeting i brought up emc2, he agreed it should be evaluated, he asked who answers on forum/irc, i said there are users and developers, his immediate response was we *need to* hire a developer on contract/part time basis *IF* we decide to go with emc2
[04:10:55] <SWPadnos> there are people closer to you who might be better choices
[04:11:04] <morfic> my boss wanted something open, and nothing is as open as emc2
[04:11:10] <SWPadnos> if you need a lot of on-site testing/whatever
[04:11:13] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:11:49] <morfic> SWPadnos: if there is a pool of developers we could pick from, sure closer could be helpful
[04:12:04] <morfic> i talk to you since you happened to be very helpful last night and well, right now again
[04:12:15] <SWPadnos> not really. we've considered having a list somewhere, but there are issues with that
[04:12:57] <SWPadnos> sure. I happen to be here, and I like being helpful
[04:13:01] <SWPadnos> even though I'm doing accounting
[04:13:23] <SWPadnos> or sleeping. I think it's time for me to hit the sack. Good night
[04:14:00] <morfic> SWPadnos: i got a reply on cnczone.com to a post where i asked what i really get from a commercial package vs emc2, one reply said there is no access to offsets in emc2, so if we probed a part and an offset needed to be made, this is currently not possible?
[04:14:28] <SWPadnos> it is possible. there's no screen that shows all the offsets to you in a "nice" format
[04:14:28] <morfic> SWPadnos: looking at the clock, yes i should do the same
[04:14:31] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:14:40] <morfic> thanks, 'night
[04:15:00] <SWPadnos> sure. see you
[04:15:03] <morfic> we need variables, not a pretty screen, or make the pretty screen if it helps us
[04:15:11] <morfic> thanks again
[04:24:44] <Valen> morfic: If you want to use EMC you need to work a little different
[04:24:53] <Valen> same as with most open source stuff I spose
[04:29:14] <Valen> you want to get it up and running without a whole bunch of time pressure
[04:29:24] <Valen> assume support is going to take a few days
[04:29:32] <Valen> and you should be ok
[04:29:48] <Valen> what are you EMCing?
[04:40:01] <elmo40> morfic: how goes the Linux battle with the Boss?
[04:55:10] <elmo40> rather interesting machine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPGsMDM_UPU
[04:55:37] <elmo40> only X, Z and C?
[05:15:41] <elmo40> the image-to-gcode. it works well?
[05:20:18] <SaintSinner> elmo40: there are settings which depend on the rate of the grayscale colour.
[05:21:02] <SaintSinner> The depth is less for light places of the image, and so on.
[05:21:14] <elmo40> so a black and white bitmap is the best. that makes sense
[05:22:08] <elmo40> 3D is possible? nice
[05:22:16] <elmo40> I thought it was mainly 2D stuff
[05:22:20] <elmo40> like circuit boards
[05:23:48] <SaintSinner> elmo40: A so-called `2.5D'
[05:23:52] <SaintSinner> not 3D
[05:24:09] <elmo40> I see
[05:25:38] <elmo40> so something like this would make interesting Z values? http://robson.m3rlin.org/cars/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/porsche_911_gt2_01.jpg
[05:27:45] <SaintSinner> If you choose proper settings, yes
[05:28:38] <SaintSinner> Axis, and some module written in python pl needed, `image.py' or something
[05:31:15] <elmo40> I read a non-english document about 'image-to-gcode' console command
[05:31:37] <elmo40> image-to-gcode porsche.jpeg > porsche.ngc
[05:31:39] <elmo40> something like that
[05:31:57] <elmo40> I am not on the machine atm, but is the command still available?
[05:38:46] <elmo40> I guess pyVCP isn't being developed anymore? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?PyVCP
[05:38:53] <elmo40> last posting was '07
[06:59:50] <alex_joni> elmo401: sure it is, it's just included in emc2, no need for documenting it in the wiki anymore
[07:31:59] <Valen> probably python image library
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[08:28:18] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[09:05:23] <tobs> Has anybody a good solution to measure the distance automatically from the workpiece to the cutter for example with a laser distance measure?
[09:06:43] <micges_work> there is no good solution
[09:07:07] <micges_work> depends on material, cutter type, conditions, speeds
[09:07:37] <micges_work> what do you want to cut?
[09:09:02] <tobs> i am thinking about automatization the emc2 where i possible can to do work steps not manually
[09:09:04] <Jymmm> tobs: to "zero out" the tool, right?
[09:10:47] <Jymmm> I thought abut using a digital TDI with the data cable connected to the PC
[09:11:28] <tobs> more like this...When the mill staarts it has a position but the software don't know where. So endswitches for the table x and y and z axis and then the workpiece distance depends on the workpiece itself and the diameter and the lenght of the milling cutter
[09:12:14] <Jymmm> Yeah, "zero out" the height of the tool
[09:12:23] <tobs> but i want to automate this process off jogging to the workpiece and touching off
[09:12:27] <Jymmm> to the top of thw workiece
[09:18:37] <Jymmm> http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/moodinq-tattoo.shtml
[09:25:21] <tobs> I have the endswitches connected. How big should the pullup resitor be?
[09:29:58] <herron> 300-1k ohms ish
[09:31:49] <MattyCNC> what kind of input? in the old days we used 4.7k for TTL and 10k for cmos
[09:35:07] <MattyCNC> and I'd err on the high side because that's the failsafe condition
[09:37:40] <tobs> i have connected the switch to 5volt
[09:40:17] <tobs> a push button connected to 5 volts and ground. and to the parallel port for input for emc2
[09:40:22] <MattyCNC> you shouldn't need 5v at the switch, just 0V and the input
[09:40:28] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[09:42:27] <MattyCNC> so when the stch is open, the parport pin reads 1 because of the pullup resistor, but when the switch is closed it reads 0 because the switch pulls down to 0V
[09:43:26] <tobs> right this is the actual connection
[09:43:50] <tobs> so any resitor from 300-1k is ok for that..?
[09:43:58] <tobs> as pull up
[09:44:00] <MattyCNC> or you can do it the other way, with a pullDOWN resistor and a switch that pulls to 5V, but my way is normal
[09:44:22] <MattyCNC> I say 4,7k
[09:45:29] <MattyCNC> but I don't really know the spec of a modern parport, so maybe herron's value is modern
[09:46:59] <herron> noise immunity can be better with a lower value
[10:10:05] <morfic> <elmo40> morfic: how goes the Linux battle with the Boss? <--- not much of a battle at all really, it'll be purely a matter of available features being sufficient or not
[10:10:08] <morfic> elmo401: ^
[11:23:42] <JT-Dev> is the map on linuxcnc working for anyone?
[11:29:05] <MattyMatt> map?
[11:37:46] <JT-Dev> user map
[12:21:39] <alex_joni> JT-Dev: it worked for me last time
[12:22:15] <JT-Dev> I just tried it from two different computers this one and a windoz one and no flags with firefox
[12:22:37] <alex_joni> it works here
[12:22:43] <alex_joni> just give it time to load all markers
[12:22:50] <alex_joni> took about 20 sec here
[12:25:00] <JT-Dev> ok
[12:33:39] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[12:37:58] <SWPadnos> JT-Work, same for me - wait a long time and all I see is the map with no icons
[12:43:29] <JT-Dev> I get 3 flags with IE but none with firefox
[12:48:07] <MattyMatt> what about chrome? I'm trying that on XP lappy and liking it
[12:48:55] <elmo401> elmo401 is now known as elmo40
[12:49:18] <MattyMatt> FF is okay on XP usually tho, apart from being a memory hog
[12:50:37] <SWPadnos> same deal with SeaMonkey - no flags at all
[12:50:56] <JT-Dev> hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go...
[12:51:05] <MattyMatt> time to register at linuxcnc.org now I don't have to click "Nothing (yet)" in the poll :)
[12:53:34] <MattyMatt> duh, I didn't need to join to vote
[12:53:39] <elmo40> morfic: too bad I couldn't help. but I am in Canada ;)
[12:53:58] <elmo40> MattyMatt: lol. no, you didn't
[12:55:16] <MattyMatt> I'm telling /. there's no Apple option
[13:01:48] <elmo40> should there be?
[13:05:12] <MattyMatt> leave that for the fanbois to decide :)
[13:05:28] <MattyMatt> Axis on iphone would be cool
[13:05:37] <SWPadnos> BLAM!
[13:05:41] <SWPadnos> oops, sorry
[13:06:05] <MattyMatt> it's OK, I donned my bulletproofs before saying that
[13:06:20] <SWPadnos> I use a high power rifle
[13:07:11] <MattyMatt> I'm in UK. when the bullet crossed the border it was sapped of 22% of its energy
[13:07:40] <SWPadnos> I thought it was only 17%
[13:08:10] <MattyMatt> Vat = 17.5%, duty = 7%, so it's 24.5% atm
[13:08:17] <SWPadnos> ah. damn
[13:09:57] <elmo40> no wonder things in the UK are so expensive
[13:10:23] <elmo40> not like you make anything anymore!
[13:10:27] <elmo40> everything is imported
[13:10:37] <elmo40> even the Beer :-P
[13:10:41] <MattyMatt> we get the zero defect TFTs, because apparently we complain the best
[13:11:00] <elmo40> that is a plus
[13:11:27] <MattyMatt> and of course we pay the most :p
[13:12:16] <MattyMatt> at least we can buy at euro prices now, with only the shipping from Germany to worry about
[13:12:31] <elmo40> wow, people love milking people for money...
[13:12:42] <elmo40> even a firmware update is $10 !
[13:12:44] <elmo40> http://www.kellyware.com/purchase/index.htm
[13:12:51] <MattyMatt> yep, and on an island you're a captive audience
[13:12:56] <elmo40> + shipping :P
[13:13:50] <MattyMatt> it's a service
[13:14:36] <MattyMatt> not everyone has a jtag cable
[13:18:12] <MattyMatt> bgates made his money selling roms
[13:18:31] <elmo40> and their site hasn't been updated in over 3 years... http://www.kellyware.com/links/index.htm
[13:18:37] <elmo40> a few old links.
[13:19:00] <MattyMatt> 2007 is roughly when I decided I hated php too
[13:23:34] <MattyMatt> I quite like that idea though. if it had eth & usb it'd be up to date
[13:24:04] <elmo40> what idea?
[13:24:14] <elmo40> the firmware update?
[13:24:20] <MattyMatt> a real time stepper controller
[13:24:39] <MattyMatt> so the PC doesn't have to do the real time stuff
[13:25:41] <MattyMatt> I presume the firmware update service is for old happy customers
[13:26:16] <MattyMatt> (C) 2001 on the board
[13:41:10] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: quick question, I assume you are logged on?
[13:41:16] <SWPadnos> I was
[13:41:28] <alex_joni> hmm.. ok.. testing FF here
[13:41:32] <alex_joni> in chrome it worked
[13:41:33] <SWPadnos> the map options doesn't show up unless you're logged in
[13:41:42] <SWPadnos> err, s/options/link/
[13:41:46] <alex_joni> without beeing logged on, I see only 3 flags in FF
[13:42:03] <alex_joni> yeah, but the link works nonetheless
[13:42:55] <SWPadnos> oh. I haven't tried that
[13:43:04] <alex_joni> hmm.. in FF it doesn't load the pins
[13:43:46] <SWPadnos> right
[13:43:56] <SWPadnos> ok, not logged in, I get the 3 event pins
[13:44:01] <SWPadnos> logged in I get no pins
[13:44:37] <alex_joni> my only guess is that FF craps out cause the list is too big
[13:45:10] <MattyMatt> or JS is turned off?
[13:45:49] <MattyMatt> nm. you wouldn't get the 3 event pins
[13:45:53] <alex_joni> right
[13:46:04] <elmo40> alex_joni: lol, list too big
[13:46:59] <SWPadnos> I wonder if there's a default JS setting that limits memory or something
[13:48:27] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I get an xml not ok when I try to load the xml directly (in FF)
[13:48:45] <MattyMatt> js_buffer char[MAX_BUFFER]; // 256];
[13:49:00] <alex_joni> line number 8982
[13:49:28] <mozmck> alex_joni: I got a 10.04 rtai patched kernel to boot, but I have to add 'nomodeset' to grub
[13:49:33] <alex_joni> aha
[13:49:35] <alex_joni> <address>
[13:49:35] <alex_joni> wq:Wtûï1580÷5÷è7÷‚?</address>
[13:49:43] <alex_joni> mozmck: coool
[13:49:44] <SWPadnos> ah, 1580 garbage court
[13:49:55] <alex_joni> it's in china apparently
[13:50:08] <SWPadnos> it's in Chinese, apparently :)
[13:50:11] <alex_joni> city: w, state: q
[13:50:40] <mozmck> kinda seems there are still some bugs in the rtai patch for
[13:52:26] <alex_joni> :/
[13:52:47] <micges_work> alex_joni: here in opera it doesn't work
[13:53:24] <alex_joni> micges_work: working on it
[13:53:31] <alex_joni> now it should work imho
[13:54:34] <alex_joni> works in FF, but takes a pretty long time
[13:54:36] <SWPadnos> yep
[13:54:38] <SWPadnos> thanks
[13:54:54] <elmo40> I am using IE and nothing came up
[13:55:04] <elmo40> been sitting for 10min now. still blank
[13:55:08] <alex_joni> elmo40: try reloading and having some patience.. IE is pretty crap ;)
[13:55:09] <elmo40> logged in as well
[13:56:17] <alex_joni> IE craps out here.. places about 6-7 blue markers then dies
[13:56:19] <alex_joni> * alex_joni sighs
[13:56:24] <SWPadnos> can you turn off the pin shadows?
[13:57:10] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: no idea
[13:57:29] <SWPadnos> it just seems that that alpha blending must slow it down a bit
[13:58:10] <SWPadnos> bbl
[13:59:00] <micges_work> bbl
[13:59:06] <cradek> the map displays fine for me. it took maybe 20s to load
[14:01:14] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: pm
[14:06:04] <alex_joni> mozmck: are you maybe using KMS ?
[14:06:22] <alex_joni> I notice it's on by default on Lucid for: Ati, Nvidia and Intel graphics
[14:06:40] <alex_joni> mozmck_work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/KernelModeSetting
[14:06:57] <MattyMatt> 22s all appeared, Iceweasel
[14:08:05] <JT-Work> I get this in IE here Webpage error details
[14:08:07] <JT-Work> Message: Invalid argument.
[14:08:08] <JT-Work> Line: 89
[14:08:10] <JT-Work> Char: 18
[14:08:12] <JT-Work> Code: 0
[14:08:13] <JT-Work> URI: http://maps.gstatic.com/intl/en_us/mapfiles/151e/maps2.api/main.js
[14:09:06] <JT-Work> I got about 20 flags then the error
[14:11:44] <MattyMatt> the map's almost a match for pop density, except there's a hole centred on Nigeria. is that because their registration emails get bounced? :)
[14:15:15] <alex_joni> http://gmaps-samples.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/manymarkers/randommarkers.html
[14:15:21] <alex_joni> here's a page to test your browser
[14:15:22] <mozmck_work> alex_joni: yes, I think karmic uses it by default as well
[14:15:35] <alex_joni> use 920 like linuxcnc's map
[14:15:58] <alex_joni> takes about 3s here on chrome
[14:16:04] <MattyMatt> what are the green bits on the map? around alaska etc
[14:16:22] <alex_joni> 7-8s on FF
[14:16:32] <mozmck_work> KMS is for eye candy and seems to cause lots of problems as far as I can tell.
[14:17:02] <alex_joni> 30-35s for IE
[14:17:03] <mozmck_work> especially with rtai. same machine boots fine without rtai patch
[14:17:31] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/GtiaHHPaE/ starting to look like something now!
[14:17:39] <MattyMatt> nullarbor plain, mongolia. only common factor I can think of is Coca-Cola free zones
[14:20:15] <mozmck_work> wow, wasn't it just a 256 users on the map a few months back?
[14:24:44] <cradek> I don't recognize the vast majority of those names
[14:24:54] <cradek> the web bbs obviously attracts people the mailing list doesn't
[14:25:50] <MattyMatt> I avoid mailing lists these days. no pop3 account
[14:25:56] <MattyMatt> only hotmail
[14:26:24] <alex_joni> there's gmail
[14:26:30] <alex_joni> or a ton of other free webbased emails
[14:26:40] <MattyMatt> yeah I should get something better
[14:27:14] <cradek> a very very approximate count of all the unique email addresses who have posted to either emc list since 2004: 1520
[14:27:30] <cradek> just don't use yahoo
[14:27:41] <cradek> fastmail.fm seems good - that's what jmk uses. it is almost free.
[14:28:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni likes gmail
[14:28:32] <cradek> they have an imap server that listens on *every* port so whatever your company firewall lets through will work!
[14:28:37] <alex_joni> it does threaded view, you can use pop to get your email, etc
[14:28:54] <alex_joni> cradek: ha, that's nice
[14:29:00] <MattyMatt> I can set up one of the accounts on momma's ISP
[14:29:06] <cradek> alex_joni: and it gives google more of your content to analyze, the better to pick ads for you.
[14:29:27] <MattyMatt> with a throwaway username. I used up my real name on my own account at the same ISP :p
[14:30:16] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt sings Like a Rolling Stone
[14:32:00] <alex_joni> cradek: that's true unfortunately
[14:32:09] <alex_joni> but adblock works pretty good
[14:33:14] <alex_joni> bbl, going home ;)
[14:33:17] <cradek> when they have collected all the data they can, it's inevitable that google and facebook will turn evil.
[14:34:55] <mozmck_work> they're not already?
[14:35:11] <cradek> frankly I'm not sure
[14:35:43] <cradek> would we even be able to tell right away?
[14:35:53] <mozmck_work> :) I like adblock for sure. I forgot how many ads and clutter were out there until I used a new install without it.
[14:35:59] <mozmck_work> I doubt it.
[15:11:35] <elmo401> IE only showed 12 or so pins on the map.
[15:11:38] <elmo401> very odd
[15:28:21] <frallzor> *phew* 3 cables hooked up to connectors now
[15:28:52] <frallzor> whats a nice way to connect cables to steppers with cables only
[15:29:11] <elmo401> solder with shrink-wrap?
[15:29:20] <elmo401> *heat-shrink :P
[15:29:24] <elmo401> whatever it is called
[15:57:24] <elmo401> not the write-up I would suggest... http://lafox.net/shop/content.php?ware_id=3492
[15:57:38] <elmo401> but still, EMC is advertised in Russian :)
[16:01:19] <elmo401> the latest CAELinux uses 8.04 LTS.
[16:01:37] <elmo401> maybe I will install that, rtai kernel and EMC2 on it.
[16:02:18] <elmo401> because my machine is not only a controller(which is 20% of the time) but also the CAx box (79% of the time)
[16:02:39] <elmo401> the 1% is for IRC and listening to streaming audio when I get bored ;)
[16:03:28] <JT-Work> I must have done something wrong trying to part off using G95 and G96 together as a race track condition came about as it neared the center of the part and my feed rate was about 180IPM
[16:03:31] <elmo401> maybe LinuxCNC needs to use CAELinux as the base... One issue, it is 64-bit. Is EMC2 64-bit ready?
[16:03:43] <elmo401> ouch
[16:04:16] <elmo401> feed should have been constant. but RPM should increase
[16:04:26] <elmo401> to keep the same chip load
[16:04:40] <cradek> I don't think that's right
[16:04:43] <JT-Work> as the rpm came up so did the feed rate to keep up
[16:04:50] <cradek> yes that's what you want
[16:05:01] <cradek> I bet you didn't specify max rpm (D?)
[16:05:10] <JT-Work> d2000
[16:05:29] <JT-Work> then D1000
[16:05:30] <cradek> what fpr?
[16:05:50] <JT-Work> 0.005 I think
[16:06:17] <Administrator_> Administrator_ is now known as aa-danimal-shop
[16:06:35] <aa-danimal-shop> morning
[16:06:45] <aa-danimal-shop> hi John
[16:06:59] <JT-Work> hi Dan
[16:07:05] <tarzan> tarzan is now known as robotito
[16:07:14] <aa-danimal-shop> hey did you ever figure out why you had more ferror in one direction than the other?
[16:07:20] <Dannyboy> since I'm gonna be nick aleted :D
[16:07:25] <Dannyboy> hey everyone :P
[16:07:25] <cradek> seems like it should have topped out at .005 * 2000 = 10 inch/min then
[16:07:55] <JT-Work> that's what I thought too :)
[16:09:34] <cradek> is your spindle velocity feedback right? you don't have minutes/seconds confused do you?
[16:10:38] <JT-Work> it seems to be correct for normal facing operations using css
[16:10:53] <cradek> it's a fpr issue, not css
[16:10:59] <JT-Work> but I might be confused on a lot of things
[16:11:11] <cradek> 32770 float IN 0 motion.spindle-speed-in <== spindle-rps
[16:11:23] <JT-Work> ok, I'll look at that this afternoon
[16:11:24] <cradek> check this input
[16:11:43] <JT-Work> when I get back to the other shop
[16:14:51] <terrylm> Hi all
[16:15:00] <JT-Work> hi
[16:15:34] <terrylm> Anyone know if hostmot2's stepgen has a velocity mode?
[16:15:59] <terrylm> The docs do not seem to mention it.
[16:16:14] <JT-Work> the encoder does
[16:16:22] <pcw_home> It does, not sure where it documented
[16:16:47] <terrylm> OK, thanks.
[16:17:16] <JT-Work> I see a velocity-fb
[16:17:18] <JT-Work> (Float, Out) Feedback velocity in arbitrary position units per second.
[16:17:24] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//drivers_hostmot2.html#r1_13
[16:17:46] <pcw_home> Vaguely remember someone using steppers with linear scale feedback so they needed velocity mode
[16:17:51] <terrylm> Yes, but velocity input command?
[16:18:36] <elmo40> how does the machine correct itself if there is an error between stepper and linear scale?
[16:18:41] <cradek> terrylm: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html
[16:18:48] <cradek> see section "stepgen"
[16:19:34] <pcw_home> elmo40: acts like a velocity mode servo...
[16:21:01] <terrylm> cradek: Thanks. I see that that is for the development version, would it also apply to EMC 2.3.5?
[16:21:43] <JT-Work> here is the current one http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/hostmot2.9.html
[16:22:53] <terrylm> OK, thank everyone.
[16:24:15] <terrylm> How / Who / What needs done to get this into the Integrators manual?
[16:24:24] <micges> pcw_home: hi
[16:24:31] <terrylm> Hi
[16:24:40] <pcw_home> Hi micges
[16:24:58] <micges> I have question about 7i65
[16:25:14] <micges> how can I use it with emc?
[16:25:46] <micges> hi terrylm
[16:25:53] <pcw_home> Write SPI support?
[16:26:42] <terrylm> Is that a Mesa card?
[16:27:08] <micges> so writing hal driver that comunicate with 7i65 by spi
[16:27:22] <pcw_home> Yes 7I65 is 8 channel analog servo interface
[16:27:23] <JT-Work> terrylm: you can bug me to do it
[16:28:15] <micges> but where spi will be connected to pc?
[16:28:30] <terrylm> JT-Work: Bug bug bug... or is it something anyone can do, like the wiki?
[16:28:43] <pcw_home> The HostMot2 firmware has 2 SPI interfaces
[16:29:32] <JT-Work> no, you have to have commit rights to add that. however if you e-mail me the missing text that would help me get it done.
[16:29:59] <micges> so 7i65 must be connected to second 5i20 port and hostmot2 spi support will be enought
[16:30:05] <terrylm> OK, address?
[16:30:20] <pcw_home> micges: Yes
[16:32:12] <pcw_home> Because SPI devices vary so much. I think the way to do it is basic data transfer support in the driver
[16:32:14] <pcw_home> and put SPI device specific setup and data munging in a HAL comp
[16:32:31] <micges> pcw_home: do you have any docs?
[16:32:44] <JT-Work> terrylm: pm
[16:33:54] <pcw_home> Only the regmap file, but i do have example setup code for the 7I65 for example
[16:34:46] <micges> pcw_home: would be cool
[16:35:41] <micges> we thinking about using 7i65 in many areas if it will be doable in emc
[16:54:53] <pcw_home> Also forgot, the 7I65 uses muxed encoders like the 7I48 so Jeplers patch for muxed encoders needs to be applied
[16:56:41] <micges> ok
[16:57:16] <micges> can you send me regmap and sample code to email?
[16:59:31] <pcw_home> Yes, but may take a bit, kind of out-of-it this week, bad cold
[16:59:57] <micges> oh sorry to hear that :|
[17:00:34] <Dave911> skunkworks: you around?
[17:53:56] <Jymmm> Cool! Just got a Tiel Mobile!
[17:56:22] <Jymmm> Now to call M-TV... "Please M-TV, PIMP MY RIDE!"
[18:01:21] <Jymmm> http://images.craigslist.org/3n83k73l95Y55Q35S2a3v5f30892912001a0b.jpg
[18:14:26] <kanzure> Optic: hey
[18:14:37] <kanzure> Optic: do you still have a ULS 25PS?
[18:15:08] <kanzure> i've been glancing at http://www.andrewkilpatrick.org/blog/?page_id=914
[18:15:32] <kanzure> i have a 25PS sitting next to me humming away
[18:15:39] <kanzure> it has its original boards and controllers
[18:15:50] <kanzure> but the COM port doesn't seem to work (?)
[18:15:53] <kanzure> i'm not sure how to confirm this
[18:16:44] <Optic> hi
[18:16:45] <Optic> yes1
[18:17:02] <Optic> ours has none of the original electronics :)
[18:17:25] <Optic> just out of curiosity, what are you using for an exhaust fan?
[18:17:55] <kanzure> there's a giant exhaust port that we've hooked up to shop exhaust :)
[18:18:04] <Optic> ahhhh
[18:18:27] <Optic> we don't have a shop exhaust, we have a furnace blower hooked up with a whole terry-gilliam-Brazil sort of ductwork extravaganza
[18:18:33] <kanzure> lovely
[18:18:44] <kanzure> the machine was demonstrated to be working when we picked it up the other day, so i'm sure it's all my fault
[18:18:51] <kanzure> the machine was working over the cyntronics port of course, not the COM port
[18:18:55] <Optic> are you using CorelDraw?
[18:18:59] <kanzure> and i've been trying to do COM-based printing from a Windows XP machine
[18:19:09] <kanzure> no, i'm just using the printer driver plus generic programs like word, notepad and mspaint
[18:19:16] <kanzure> i am not a windows person
[18:19:57] <kanzure> presumably the printer driver should work with any program that has a print button
[18:20:07] <kanzure> but never does the machine register anything in its "buffer"
[18:20:21] <kanzure> heh this is kind of pointless since you've never tried the original firmware
[18:20:48] <Optic> no :)
[18:20:59] <Optic> we just run the steppers from emc
[18:21:13] <kanzure> can i modprobe the emc kernel modules
[18:21:35] <kanzure> hm, nevermind, i'd have to do some circuits first
[18:21:43] <kanzure> * kanzure goes back to fiddling with windows
[18:21:51] <kanzure> i wish printers had some sort of "ping me" feature to confirm that the connection works
[18:22:06] <sealive> Hi and good evening
[18:22:10] <micges> hi
[18:22:26] <sealive> is G64-P also in 2.3.5
[18:22:35] <micges> yes
[18:22:47] <sealive> ther is no example
[18:22:55] <sealive> for full syntax
[18:23:07] <sealive> G64 P-0.05
[18:23:17] <sealive> is this wright
[18:23:36] <kanzure> hi lewing1
[18:23:50] <sealive> or G64 P 0.05 -> for 0.05mm tolerance
[18:24:00] <JT-Work> yes
[18:24:18] <JT-Work> G64 P0.05
[18:24:33] <JT-Work> for 0.05 user units of tolerance
[18:24:42] <sealive> does any gcode set this back?
[18:24:48] <sealive> or is this only modal
[18:25:11] <sealive> till the next G00 apears
[18:25:16] <JT-Work> when you start EMC the default is G64 with no P tolerance
[18:25:34] <JT-Work> otherwise it remains until you change it AFAIK
[18:25:41] <alex_joni> sealive: it's modal until the next G61, G64 Pxx or G64
[18:25:41] <aa-danimal-shop> yes
[18:25:48] <JT-Work> yes
[18:25:57] <aa-danimal-shop> si
[18:26:22] <alex_joni> and M2,M30 or other program stop/abort
[18:26:25] <sealive> ok so i can change within programm
[18:26:32] <alex_joni> sealive: yes
[18:28:12] <sealive> what is the differencd bitwean G61 and G61.1
[18:28:40] <JT-Work> nothing
[18:29:07] <sealive> if i go exact path i have to do exact stop
[18:29:12] <alex_joni> one's exact path, one is exact stop
[18:29:25] <alex_joni> if you have succesive moves in the same direction, eg
[18:29:27] <alex_joni> G1 x10
[18:29:29] <alex_joni> x12
[18:29:30] <alex_joni> x20
[18:29:32] <alex_joni> ...
[18:29:46] <alex_joni> exact stop stops at each point
[18:29:53] <alex_joni> exact path doesn't stop
[18:30:03] <alex_joni> but for any other cases they behave the same
[18:30:19] <sealive> ok
[18:30:22] <JT-Work> I was thinking of corners and didn't think of a line
[18:33:04] <sealive> so what is the best way to start the programm in EMC2 on a stepper mashine G17 G21 G90 G40 G64P0.05
[18:34:19] <SWPadnos> if you want circles in the XY plane, millimeter units, absolute motion, and a 0.05mm tolerance, then yes, that looks good
[18:35:03] <SaintSinner> There is a default behavior where the tolerance is just zero and you don't need to point it out at all.
[18:36:50] <sealive> if i do nothing what does the mashine if i programm G17 G21 G90 G00X200 does it stop exactly at 200 by 50mm/s and 20mm/s²
[18:38:11] <SWPadnos> you should get an error, unless you have previously specified a feed rate with F<something>
[18:38:23] <SaintSinner> It reduces the speed so as it is able to follow the exact path
[18:38:51] <sealive> G00 does not need a feedrate
[18:39:28] <sealive> Why i'am asking
[18:40:03] <sealive> i want to try out the max movement and the max speed og my littel new mashine
[18:41:06] <SaintSinner> Fedrate is needed by a complex reason. When you think it is not needed by the logic of the machine, you set some *optimal* feedrate for the case for machine to stick to
[18:41:09] <SWPadnos> oh right - missed that :)
[18:41:37] <sealive> from home with G00 to max -0.1 Y then to max X to min z tthen §d back to home
[18:41:52] <SWPadnos> g0x200 will move to X=200 at the fastest speed/accel it can manage, subject to the feedrate override settings in AXIS and HAL
[18:42:37] <sealive> is the hal gererated by stepconf
[18:43:07] <SWPadnos> ok, so there should be no adaptive feed override connection
[18:43:19] <sealive> are here some Developers of EMC2 ?
[18:43:29] <SWPadnos> yes, there are
[18:43:30] <sealive> i got a issue
[18:43:43] <SWPadnos> ask the real question. someone will answer if they can
[18:44:02] <sealive> is it posible to make a drop down where the user can specifi the editor?
[18:44:28] <SWPadnos> I think there's an ini setting to specify the editor (for AXIS at least)
[18:44:35] <sealive> in stepconf it overits it to default gedit
[18:44:41] <sealive> ther is no gedit
[18:45:02] <sealive> i use mousepad
[18:45:04] <SWPadnos> if you're on an Ubuntu install, you should have gedit
[18:45:14] <sealive> no Xbuntu
[18:45:56] <SWPadnos> you could make a link: something like /usr/bin/gedit -> mousepad
[18:46:08] <SWPadnos> (using the shell, and you only need to do it once)
[18:46:35] <sealive> as a batch?
[18:46:48] <SWPadnos> no, one time at the command line. like copying a file
[18:47:02] <SWPadnos> use the "ln" command
[18:47:28] <sealive> ok woudt this stay forever?
[18:47:37] <SWPadnos> pretty much
[18:47:45] <sealive> thanks
[18:47:56] <SWPadnos> it will make it so that any time you type the command "gedit", you'll get mousepad
[18:48:11] <SWPadnos> unless you install Gnome , which would try to put the real gedit there :)
[18:48:38] <sealive> i try it out thanks
[18:48:57] <sealive> BB good night and thanks for the help
[18:54:55] <kanzure> *centronics
[19:32:28] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[19:47:33] <gene> Hi guys; everybody healthy?
[19:48:12] <archivist_attic> no I died
[19:48:52] <gene> I need a math lesson I believe, what of archivist?
[19:49:33] <archivist_attic> thirst
[19:49:40] <aa-danimal-shop> crabs
[19:50:13] <archivist_attic> xkcd is funny today
[19:50:15] <aa-danimal-shop> he fell asleep at the beach and the crabs got him
[19:50:54] <gene> I'm making a case headspace guage, and need to calculate a spiral of decreasing diameter. Havn't seen xkdc yet todayt, darn.
[19:51:45] <archivist_attic> do so before the day is out
[19:52:25] <aa-danimal-shop> what is xkdc?
[19:53:30] <gene> I have a tapered hole drilled from base diameter (0.4695") to the base of the shoulder diameter (0.417" at 1.51" depth, plus a neck clearance hole deep enough to find it on the lathe. Or mill if I turn it over.
[19:53:56] <gene> xkcd, a stick figure comic, link off /.
[19:55:14] <gene> Now I need to cut the 28 degree shoulder, starting at shoulder diameter & depth, ending at mill diameter and 1.664" when x&y=0
[19:56:03] <gene> shoulder diameter is .417" - mill radius of course.
[19:56:54] <EbiDK> http://vimeo.com/10479779 Nifty. Inkjet+optical drive+pen==CNC plotter
[20:00:12] <gene> I'm thinking I should again do circles, with z going down about a thou per circle, with the x decrement a function of the feed, and let the angle take care of itself.
[20:00:35] <gene> Or is there a better way?
[20:01:40] <toastydeath> ball nose endmill and then do exactly what you just said
[20:02:08] <frallzor> this weekend aa-danimal-shop, this will be all done! http://www.pici.se/p/large/GtiaHHPaE/
[20:02:45] <gene> the corners of the shoulder must be sharp, ball wont do it, hence the very fine feed
[20:03:04] <toastydeath> oh
[20:04:04] <gene> I'll go see what it can run up on the calculator, it can't be that far off if
[20:04:04] <archivist_attic> A bit of Ocode and you can program it
[20:05:15] <aa-danimal-shop> frallzor, that looks great! i see you're using a touch screen, huh?
[20:05:38] <gene> i know the start depth & diamter, and the ending depth at what is effectively zero diameter. Yes, already using the o code etc.
[20:09:41] <frallzor> yup
[20:10:14] <frallzor> will try to get touchy running on it
[20:10:37] <frallzor> its a bitch since I cant jog at all and cant fit an expansioncard in that box
[20:11:23] <cradek> gene: can't you do it on a lathe more easily?
[20:12:09] <pcw_home> frallzor: USB jogwheel?
[20:12:17] <frallzor> they excist?
[20:12:47] <cradek> not really. there are some devices that have a round knob but they are not jog wheels as we know them.
[20:12:56] <cradek> they are made for controlling video editing software
[20:13:09] <frallzor> as long as i can jog at all I would be happy
[20:13:15] <frallzor> like. keyboard support!
[20:13:25] <frallzor> *hint*
[20:13:32] <cradek> oh not this again
[20:14:10] <SWPadnos> frallzor, touchy will not get a keyboard interface. end of story. would you like to choose a different UI?
[20:14:51] <SWPadnos> touchy is explicitly intended to be a user interface that uses a touchscreen and external physical controls instead of a keyboard and mouse
[20:15:45] <frallzor> cant recall, was there some jogstuff in the interface?
[20:16:05] <SWPadnos> you attach a jog wheel, and I think there may be jog buttons on one of the UI pages
[20:16:12] <cradek> you use the touchscreen to select the axis and increment for jogging
[20:16:21] <frallzor> ah but then its all good
[20:16:28] <frallzor> just need jog to align stuff
[20:16:38] <frallzor> not do major movement
[20:16:45] <SWPadnos> cradek, is there a UI tab with jog buttons?
[20:16:57] <cradek> the increment setting controls how much motion you get per click of the jogwheel
[20:17:08] <pcw_home> wouldn't a USB trackball work I thought there was a HID HAL interface
[20:17:09] <cradek> SWPadnos: no
[20:17:13] <SWPadnos> oh, ok
[20:17:45] <cradek> pcw_home: if they have a count output, they would work
[20:19:25] <frallzor> does a pendant need a port of its own, or could it be linked to a single one used for all somehow?
[20:23:03] <SWPadnos> pendants aren't special in EMC2 - all you need is sufficient amounts of I/O
[20:23:25] <frallzor> the issue is the lack of I/O
[20:23:48] <SWPadnos> um. well then you need more I/O :)
[20:24:04] <frallzor> and I couldnt fit the extra p-port in my case =(
[20:24:06] <SWPadnos> are you asking if you can share pendant I/O with e.g. step/dir signals?
[20:24:24] <frallzor> well, any I/O
[20:24:29] <frallzor> somehow
[20:24:32] <SWPadnos> some things might be shareable, like a probe input and something else
[20:24:53] <SWPadnos> but then again, if the cat steps on the pendant while you're probing, you won't be happy with the cat
[20:25:00] <SWPadnos> or the pendant
[20:25:02] <frallzor> how many inputs would a normal pendant need?
[20:25:10] <SWPadnos> there's no such thing as normal
[20:25:15] <frallzor> basic
[20:25:18] <frallzor> then
[20:25:27] <SWPadnos> one: e-stop
[20:25:44] <SWPadnos> and that doesn't need to go to EMC2 explicitly, it could just turn off the motor drives
[20:26:06] <SWPadnos> (no trying to be obtuse, but that's like asking how big a car is)
[20:26:16] <frallzor> where to hook the mpg-signals to then?
[20:26:57] <MattyMatt> 2 inputs for quadrature
[20:27:19] <MattyMatt> then switches for axis & speed
[20:27:34] <tom3p> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Hooking_Up_A_MPG_Pendant
[20:27:37] <SWPadnos> if you want an MPG, an axis selector knob (for 3 axes+disabled). and a selector for several jog increments, you'd need 2 for the MPG, 2 for the axis selector (4 options, use binary coding), and 2 for the increment selector (for 4 increments)
[20:27:41] <cradek> you don't need/want axis/speed controls on the pendant for touchy
[20:27:50] <cradek> those are on the screen
[20:28:06] <SWPadnos> so it really depends on what you want on the pendant more than anything else
[20:28:39] <cradek> I'm too tired to dig up the touchy docs url again, sorry.
[20:28:55] <MattyMatt> Otto in Wall-E
[20:30:41] <frallzor> guess touchy will have to wait then, cant get enough inputs =(
[20:30:50] <MattyMatt> the touchy goes on a pendant? neat
[20:31:15] <frallzor> no inputs for controlling the mill, no touchy
[20:31:30] <MattyMatt> if you can afford a touchy, you can afford a pci input card
[20:31:40] <frallzor> but I cant fit it
[20:31:42] <frallzor> =)
[20:31:45] <pcw_home> Just one parallel port?
[20:31:50] <MattyMatt> no pci slots free?
[20:32:11] <pcw_home> a serial port free?
[20:32:16] <frallzor> 1 only but even stripped p-port card stops the case from being closed
[20:32:29] <frallzor> hmm serial ports I have
[20:32:57] <MattyMatt> I'd do USB
[20:33:16] <pcw_home> ISTR EMC can use serial port handshaking lines as I/O
[20:33:45] <cradek> serport only has 4 inputs. to run touchy you need at least 5.
[20:33:47] <frallzor> would usb > p-port work for this stuff?
[20:34:02] <frallzor> since its not as critical latency wise
[20:34:30] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't bet on them working
[20:34:31] <MattyMatt> using the board and wire from a gamepad would be cheaper
[20:34:36] <SWPadnos> but you never know
[20:34:45] <pcw_home> counting quadrature is time critical
[20:35:13] <MattyMatt> I'd delegate counting to the mouse chip
[20:35:29] <pcw_home> 2 serial ports would give you 8 more inputs
[20:35:31] <MattyMatt> serial mouse :)
[20:35:53] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt has
[20:35:56] <frallzor> http://texasmicrocircuits.com/ these guys makes nice pendants for usb
[20:36:19] <frallzor> wouldnt be too bad to get one of those working
[20:36:30] <cal> SPL311
[20:36:33] <cal> cal is now known as Guest45235
[20:37:45] <tom3p> maybe this uses the 'gameport' if you got one and IF thats whats used here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[20:37:46] <Guest45235> How does one take a screen shot of an EMC display so it can be posted into an e-mail or the like?
[20:38:17] <tom3p> Applications|accesories|Takescreenshot
[20:38:47] <Guest45235> Ahh! IT's there! Thanks I'll give it a go!
[20:39:16] <tom3p> alt printscreen
[20:45:58] <Guest45235> Jeesh That works too! Thanks tom
[20:46:26] <Guest45235> Pitching the merits of EMC ;-))
[20:46:31] <MattyMatt> for $350 you could butcher a Nin DS for the touchscreen
[20:47:16] <MattyMatt> or effectively just rehouse the whole DS
[20:48:31] <MattyMatt> put the extra screen on the back, for tamori-on style performance milling
[20:49:00] <MattyMatt> tenori-on
[20:49:03] <MattyMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6tLRCDqJ2c
[20:50:50] <JT-Work> Guest45235: alt print screen will capture the current window
[20:51:08] <JT-Work> tom3p: beat me to it
[20:51:16] <JT-Work> * JT-Work should learn to read up :)
[20:52:01] <MattyMatt> altPrScn doesn't work for me, but then my £ key doesn't work
[20:52:17] <MattyMatt> it probably all works on my emc machine :)
[20:53:27] <MattyMatt> libxkb conflict stops the workrounds working. pesky nvidia X
[20:59:15] <MattyCNC> ££££££££££ yep all works here
[21:00:58] <MattyCNC> still dunno why wifi isn't working. Ubuntu has had support since Grumpy Gerbil
[21:01:43] <MattyCNC> for my RT2560 card
[21:02:35] <MattyCNC> it shows as PCI card, but not in iwconfig
[21:02:43] <tom3p> yeh a lot of apps dont play nice with gnome & v/v. i just found out that ESC 0 works around F10's failure in MC.
[21:24:07] <tom3p> velocity filter widget changes http://pastebin.org/130736 http://imagebin.ca/view/CI0KkEX.html
[21:24:13] <tom3p> two lines before and after the curve describe areas of maxPosVel & maxNegVel.
[21:24:14] <tom3p> also the 'handles are bounded by neighbors and edges
[21:33:47] <MattyMatt> ah is this like the IPOs in blender? I thought you was adding a bezier G code :)
[21:33:53] <MattyMatt> ^were
[21:40:19] <MattyMatt> that would drastically shrink a lot of files
[21:45:52] <tom3p> dunno IPO but its governs a velocity using a bezier curve. i was using lines, but had a speed 'jerk' at each 'knee'
[21:46:38] <tom3p> and bezier-ish code exists for emc2 (someplace, forget where)
[21:46:47] <MattyMatt> yep that's exactly the reason why blender IPOs (drawable animation control signals) have bezier option
[21:47:08] <tom3p> acronym?
[21:47:30] <MattyMatt> I'd look it up, but they've changed the name for the upcoming 2.5
[21:48:13] <tom3p> initial purchase offer ? (like stock)
[21:50:21] <MattyMatt> Inter Polation Object
[21:50:24] <tom3p> InterPOlation
[21:50:31] <tom3p> yah
[21:50:34] <MattyMatt> ^ seems that's accurate. pesky Dutchmen
[21:53:17] <tom3p> hooray for openbooks http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro
[21:55:01] <MattyMatt> it took me 1 week to start my first model, and 1 more week to finish it. you need to develop muscle memory
[21:55:17] <MattyMatt> in particular the mouse buttons feel back to front
[21:56:11] <MattyMatt> I should do a "Learn in 11 mins" vid for YT
[22:06:05] <JT-Hardinge> cradek: I have net spindle-velocity motion.spindle-speed-in <= hm2_5i20.0.encoder.02.velocity
[22:11:04] <cradek> does that give rps or rpm?
[22:13:15] <JT-Hardinge> rps
[22:13:33] <JT-Hardinge> (float out) velocity: Estimated encoder velocity in position units per second.
[22:14:21] <cradek> is it right when you meter it?
[22:14:41] <JT-Hardinge> checking now
[22:19:31] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:20:59] <aa-danimal-shop> goodnight
[22:24:23] <JT-Hardinge> goodnight
[22:25:13] <pfred1> mmmmm sexy .... http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=620-1166-1-ND
[22:28:00] <JT-Hardinge> cradek: seems to be correct but just a little off atm
[22:45:15] <mozmck> heh, look at http://www.kernel.org
[22:46:17] <Guest45235> Are there any here that are familiar with TUX-PLOT?
[22:47:05] <andypugh> Not me. I am only answering to prove that there are people here to answer.
[22:47:16] <Guest45235> thx andy
[22:48:00] <Guest45235> It seems to be a possible Cam and certainly an HPGL utility.
[22:48:14] <Guest45235> that would be g-code cam
[22:48:55] <Guest45235> restricted to converting "art" etc from Vector drawing applications
[22:48:59] <mozmck> where do you find tux-plot?
[22:49:08] <pfred1> I htink I saw it someplace
[22:49:20] <andypugh> Does it do G-Code ot HPGL?
[22:49:23] <Guest45235> search engine "TUX-PLOT
[22:49:24] <pfred1> something about a plotter drawing mickey mouse comes to mind ...
[22:49:48] <andypugh> http://www.securetech-ns.ca/camm-linux.html
[22:50:20] <Guest45235> no eps ps pdf etc to ?g-code perhaps, that is the promise, but I can't get it to open.
[22:51:20] <andypugh> It looks (from the screenshot) like it uses PyCAM so you might want to just go straight to that.
[22:51:26] <pfred1> Guest45235 if I could easm files to open in Linux I'm sure you'll be able to do whateve it is that you're up to!
[22:51:31] <Guest45235> it uses pstoedit to convert files to HPGL
[22:52:27] <andypugh> HPGL is not a lot nearer to G-code than Poscscript is, though.
[22:53:05] <pfred1> I thought Linux could plot HPGL
[22:53:25] <Guest45235> it would be useful to some
[22:53:26] <andypugh> It probably can. What was the question again?
[22:53:38] <pfred1> is this to say there are no linux plotter drivers?
[22:53:55] <andypugh> FWIW I have written some Matlab
[22:53:57] <Guest45235> I have not seen such drivers
[22:54:41] <pfred1> well I haven't lookedi n years but let me just have a little look see what I'm looking at now doesn't seem to be panning out anyways
[22:54:50] <Guest45235> xfig outputs HPGL, but it will not convert an imported figure. How is that?
[22:55:20] <pfred1> Results 1 - 10 of about 674,000 for Linux HPGL. (0.33 centons)
[22:55:29] <Guest45235> not really a question that needs answered
[22:55:36] <Jymmm> There are MANY graphic apps that will only import or only export certain formats.
[22:55:52] <Guest45235> So I have discovered
[22:56:23] <pfred1> Jymmm yeah but if you look hard enough you can find some filter someplace that'll export to just about anything else
[22:57:02] <Guest45235> like pstoedit ;-)
[22:57:03] <Jymmm> pfred1: if you look hard enough you'll find anything to do anyhting.
[22:57:04] <pfred1> and I'm pretty sure HPGL is well supported by Linux
[22:57:50] <Guest45235> If you find an "Art" application that "prints to plotter" I'm listening!
[22:58:26] <pfred1> it wouldn't stun me to learn that gimp can read HPGL files
[22:58:30] <Guest45235> Photo shop plotted is the ideal ;-)
[23:00:17] <andypugh> I can pastebin my STL solid model to HPGL / Postscript code if you want? Octave is a freeware Matlab code interpreter.
[23:00:34] <andypugh> It does it all in remarkably little code.
[23:01:46] <Guest45235> Andy You are beyond me
[23:02:22] <andypugh> http://www.pastebin.org/130806
[23:03:22] <VernonM> yeah he's beyond me all the time too
[23:03:35] <pfred1> it looks to me you can just cat an HPGl file to lp and it'd happen
[23:03:36] <VernonM> haha
[23:04:15] <pfred1> http://lprng.sourceforge.net/DISTRIB/RESOURCES/HPGL_short_summary.html
[23:04:16] <andypugh> That code will just run in Octave and convert an STL file to HPGL on the serial port.
[23:04:37] <andypugh> http://www.gnu.org/software/octave/
[23:06:17] <pfred1> Guest45235 whats wrong with this? http://www.gnu.org/software/hp2xx/
[23:07:14] <andypugh> In my case? I wanted something to run on my Mac and STL isn't a vector graphics format it is a 2D-solid definition format.
[23:07:38] <andypugh> (errr, 3D solid)
[23:08:31] <Guest45235> pfred it seems that if you have an HPGL file, things are easier
[23:09:09] <pfred1> * pfred1 synaptics hp2xx .....
[23:09:14] <Guest45235> Andy, I should just copy that pastebin file to a document until I learn enough to use it?
[23:10:04] <pfred1> Guest45235 well if you don't have a file then what is all of this about?
[23:12:18] <andypugh> Guest45235: Possibly, though looking at it I am not sure it is using HPGL, I might have used RDGL. It is years since the plotter came out of the cupboard.
[23:12:20] <pfred1> someone please remind me what day today is?
[23:12:21] <Guest45235> pfredl I would like to MAKE the HPGL file! The many other vector or bitmap forms are easily accomplished. Raster format prevails Time moves on
[23:12:24] <Valen> friday here
[23:12:43] <Guest45235> Roland is close!
[23:13:06] <pfred1> Valen well it is still April Fool's Day here!
[23:13:13] <Valen> lol
[23:13:21] <andypugh> Guest45235: In that case, just print to file. Take your vector image in Inkscape or whatever and print it to a file using the HPGL plotter driver, and Voila! a HPGL file.
[23:13:52] <pfred1> andypugh one of my fave methods of making a PDF for sure
[23:14:07] <Guest45235> Andy Inkscape will not output to a HPGL plotter.
[23:14:30] <Guest45235> I was advised that "older versions used to "
[23:14:36] <pfred1> Guest45235 ah, that is what a print spooler is for
[23:14:53] <Guest45235> tell me.....
[23:16:31] <andypugh> I suspect it is a case of installing a plotter driver
[23:17:02] <Guest45235> If you find one, I'm all ears. ACad 10?
[23:17:05] <pfred1> yeah create a bogus print spooler
[23:17:12] <Guest45235> and???
[23:17:41] <pfred1> when you print to it it'll never job then just go into the spool dir and grab the file!
[23:17:42] <Guest45235> There are several for Windows such as Corel Draw
[23:18:07] <pfred1> Guest45235 well this ain't Windows we do things a tad differently here
[23:18:21] <pfred1> as in we don't keep on reinventing the wheel poorly
[23:18:40] <andypugh> Yes we do :-)
[23:18:41] <Guest45235> pfredl If that were the case, I could just print to file as I am now, then doing conversion with the pstoedit
[23:19:01] <pfred1> andypugh the ones who have not learned the way yet
[23:19:12] <andypugh> Yes, print to file in Postscript, then use pstoedit
[23:19:25] <Guest45235> Yes, that is how
[23:19:27] <pfred1> andypugh those are the projects that never get past version .02
[23:19:32] <andypugh> Inkscape does that, I have it open now
[23:19:43] <Guest45235> yes, That isa how I use it
[23:19:57] <Guest45235> It = Inkscape
[23:20:16] <andypugh> OK, so I am now joining the "what was the question again" team :-)
[23:20:29] <Guest45235> A bit clumsy, but Eagle works too!
[23:20:48] <pfred1> what is so clumsey about Eagle now?
[23:20:58] <Guest45235> The question was how to get Tux-Plot to open ;-)
[23:21:23] <Guest45235> pfredl images on Eagle are a bit of a stretch
[23:22:17] <andypugh> Guest45235: I take it you followed the instructions in Readme.1st?
[23:22:19] <Guest45235> Further the question, any experience with the vector file to g-code conversion from the same package
[23:22:28] <Guest45235> Sort of a 2D Cam
[23:23:14] <Guest45235> Yes, Read, Hopefully done. The Icon is on the desktop, but the Gui will not open
[23:23:33] <pfred1> Guest45235 try starting it in a terminal to see error messages
[23:23:35] <andypugh> Start it from the command line and see what errors are shown
[23:23:44] <pfred1> andypugh jynx!
[23:23:59] <Guest45235> Great minds.....
[23:24:11] <pfred1> Guest45235 no, just years of practice ...
[23:24:12] <andypugh> And April Fools seldom differ
[23:24:51] <pfred1> * pfred1 has been Linux 27/7 since 1996
[23:25:07] <andypugh> I think I have been using Unix for over a year now. That's scary. Why do I keep finding improvements to make to the machine rather than making stuff with it?
[23:25:54] <pfred1> andypugh well you're a fast learner then because you had the right answer
[23:25:57] <aa-danimal-shop> 27/7?
[23:25:59] <andypugh> (Today I added some PYVCP buttons for tool-changing in my lathe config because typing M6 T1 G43 was getting me down)
[23:26:06] <Guest45235> With the bin folder open, I must say I do not know which file must be executed
[23:26:12] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop yeah my system clock is skewed up!
[23:26:13] <aa-danimal-shop> good idea andypugh
[23:26:35] <aa-danimal-shop> lol pfred1 that has never happened on my windows boxes?
[23:26:36] <aa-danimal-shop> !
[23:26:56] <andypugh> Guest45235: Is there a scripts folder?
[23:26:56] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I bet you never compiled a kernel for any of your windows boxes either now have you?
[23:27:28] <andypugh> Guest45235: Alternatively, look at the desktop shortcut and see what file that is trying to run.
[23:27:35] <aa-danimal-shop> never had to, that's how good they are!
[23:27:54] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop more like couldn't if you very life depended on it
[23:28:09] <aa-danimal-shop> haha
[23:28:19] <andypugh> You can compile a MacOS kernel if you want to.
[23:28:30] <Guest45235> python bin/main.py
[23:28:44] <pfred1> andypugh yeah i don't see that day ever arriving ;)
[23:28:44] <aa-danimal-shop> i know, just stirring the pot. i dont even know what a kernel is, other than corn
[23:29:59] <pfred1> Guest45235 some scripts have to be hand edited in order to run on your specific system
[23:30:01] <andypugh> Guest45235: Ah, it's Python. What happens if you just type "python" in the terminal winow.
[23:30:08] <Jymmm> pfred1: Bet you *I* have.
[23:30:15] <Valen> you start an interperetr
[23:30:23] <Guest45235> typing main.py returned five lines of "This doesn't work" ;-(
[23:30:30] <pfred1> Jymmm so you're a Microsoftie are you?
[23:30:50] <andypugh> You do if you have one to start. I am wondering if that is the problem
[23:31:18] <Jymmm> pfred1:
[23:31:20] <Jymmm> $ uname -a
[23:31:21] <Jymmm> Darwin Eve.local 9.8.0 Darwin Kernel Version 9.8.0: Wed Jul 15 16:55:01 PDT 2009; root:xnu-1228.15.4~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
[23:32:02] <pfred1> Jymmm Darwin award winner I see ...
[23:32:09] <andypugh> Guest45235: If you type "python" do you get a python interpreter?
[23:32:38] <andypugh> Darwin cube 10.2.0 Darwin Kernel Version 10.2.0: Tue Nov 3 10:37:10 PST 2009; root:xnu-1486.2.11~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
[23:32:41] <andypugh> I win!
[23:33:20] <pfred1> http://www.darwinawards.com/
[23:35:12] <Guest45235> Python 2.5.2
[23:36:09] <andypugh> OK, and if you cd to bin and type python main.py what happens?
[23:36:47] <pfred1> andypugh green ooze pours out of your ears!
[23:36:54] <Guest45235> >>> python main.py
[23:36:54] <Guest45235> File "<stdin>", line 1
[23:36:55] <Guest45235> python main.py
[23:36:55] <Guest45235> ^
[23:36:55] <Guest45235> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
[23:36:55] <Guest45235> >>>
[23:37:15] <andypugh> (I don't actually know how to invoke python...)
[23:37:35] <pfred1> chmod +x it then ./ the file
[23:37:36] <Valen> press ctrl + d
[23:37:46] <Valen> he is in the python shell
[23:38:00] <Valen> get back to bash then do python main.py
[23:38:08] <Guest45235> yes trapped by a snake at the moment
[23:38:16] <pfred1> nah you probably are supposed to flag it executable then run it
[23:38:19] <Valen> press ctrl+d it will exit the shell
[23:38:33] <Valen> to run a python program in linux you call it like that
[23:38:38] <Valen> I am a python programmer
[23:38:40] <Guest45235> tks Valen
[23:38:42] <Valen> python foo
[23:40:03] <Guest45235> cal@cal-desktop:~/bin$ ./main.py
[23:40:03] <Guest45235> ./main.py: line 24: import: command not found
[23:40:03] <Guest45235> from: can't read /var/mail/qt
[23:40:03] <Guest45235> from: can't read /var/mail/camm2_new3
[23:40:03] <Guest45235> ./main.py: line 28: syntax error near unexpected token `('
[23:40:03] <Guest45235> ./main.py: line 28: `class sub(HPGL):'
[23:40:36] <pfred1> Guest45235 install qt
[23:40:54] <Guest45235> package manager?
[23:41:07] <pfred1> its a widgit lib
[23:41:42] <Valen> sudo apt-get install python-qt3 python-qt4
[23:42:55] <pfred1> unless there's a user on your system named qt
[23:43:47] <Guest45235> nearly done
[23:43:50] <pfred1> I think I'm going to have to DL this stuff just to see whats really going on
[23:44:04] <Guest45235> done!
[23:44:41] <Guest45235> do I need to restart?
[23:44:53] <pfred1> heh
[23:44:53] <Valen> no
[23:45:21] <Valen> Guest45235 what are you actually trying to do?
[23:45:24] <Guest45235> ./main.py
[23:45:25] <Guest45235> ./main.py: line 24: import: command not found
[23:45:25] <Guest45235> from: can't read /var/mail/qt
[23:45:25] <Guest45235> from: can't read /var/mail/camm2_new3
[23:45:25] <Guest45235> ./main.py: line 28: syntax error near unexpected token `('
[23:45:25] <Guest45235> ./main.py: line 28: `class sub(HPGL):'
[23:45:29] <Guest45235> Same Same
[23:45:59] <pfred1> Valen they're tryinf to run an app called tuxplot
[23:46:23] <Valen> ahh and its not in the repos
[23:46:30] <Valen> where did they get it from
[23:46:35] <Guest45235> Valen, This application (Tux-Plot) does not display the Gui
[23:46:44] <pfred1> Valen good Q I can't find it yet
[23:46:48] <Valen> where did you get it?
[23:47:29] <pfred1> all I've found so far is this: http://www.securetech-ns.ca/help.pdf
[23:47:58] <Guest45235> see time stamp 18:49
[23:48:20] <Valen> thats your local time
[23:48:28] <Valen> I joined after that
[23:49:03] <Guest45235> Since starting Python, there is an annoying beep with every key stroke. HELP! ;-)
[23:49:21] <Valen> your not still in the python shell?
[23:49:43] <Guest45235> Securetech
[23:50:17] <Guest45235> No I closed down the terminal
[23:50:50] <pfred1> this is shareware
[23:50:58] <pfred1> they want money
[23:51:35] <MattyMatt> xchat beeps on every key sometimes. I think it's just Insert mode or sth simple
[23:52:11] <pfred1> to further develop their reefer addiction
[23:52:12] <Guest45235> Ok Insert off ! thanks, There is so much to learn. And I have big thumbs!
[23:52:53] <Guest45235> Nova Scotia is a long way from reality ;-)
[23:53:00] <pfred1> Any comments or support questions please direct to the email address below Contact: securetech@eastlink.ca
[23:53:15] <Guest45235> I sent,,,,, no response yet
[23:53:16] <Valen> http://www.3x6.nl/inkscape_hpgl/Linux%20inkscape%20save%20as%20HPGL%20file%20for%20pen%20cutting%20plotter%20extension.html looks close
[23:53:52] <Valen> you are making a drawing and want a hpgl file out of it is that right?
[23:54:10] <Guest45235> Valen That is the procedure at this time psto edit, then distill!
[23:54:59] <Valen> so what are you trying to do then?
[23:55:02] <Guest45235> The topic was really only brought here for the g-code conversion. but..I got distracted sorry
[23:55:54] <Guest45235> What would be nice is to have a useful vector graphics application that output HPGL format.
[23:55:55] <pfred1> * pfred1 needs to design a bipolar stepper motor driver
[23:56:26] <Guest45235> I like Compumotor S Drives. Plug and play!
[23:56:41] <Guest45235> no design time, and they show up cheap!
[23:56:41] <pfred1> I'm going to fool around a bit more with the one I finished up earlier today but I don't have much hope for it being too useful really
[23:57:34] <pfred1> it runs but slowly now
[23:58:16] <pfred1> while i was rooting around in my junk I found another bipolar motor I'd forgotten i had it looks OK
[23:58:42] <pfred1> twin stack nema 23 272 oz/in torque
[23:58:49] <pfred1> mint in box!
[23:58:57] <Guest45235> nice size
[23:59:13] <pfred1> yeah i have to build a driver for it