we just hit it with the angle grinder then decided it was easier to modify the mill instead
In fact, I have rather more of them than I need, I had to buy a full pack. I bought them for ballscrew machining and would be happy to sell them at $10 each to anyone who wants one for the same purpose.
CBN are they the ceramic ones?
Cubic Boron Nitride
[00:01:20] <andypugh> http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/taking-the-fear-out-of-hard-turning
where you need the red hot metal coming off for it to work?
That's the one. described to me by a salesman as "single-point grinding"
could well be interested in that
CBN is only softer than diamond, but unlike diamond it is not soluble in steel.
Surely you should insist on machining everything with Valenite?
I was thinking of getting some milling bits made outta that stuff
as in using, not getting them made
Sounds an expensive proposition. Could you not use conventional insert tooling and ise CBN inserts?
thats what I meant
though at 6mm I'm not sure inserts are an option
Yes, I see now. Who invented this stupid ambiguous language? It would have been perfectly clear who was doing what to what in latin.
no I just worded it poorly
if i had said something like, I am interested in using endmills with CBN tips
where did you get your stuff from?
the stuff you got was inserts or complete tools?
[00:09:33] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-BNIB-VALENITE-CBN-TURNING-INSERTS-900-41-006-00-728_W0QQitemZ300360942223QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM?hash=item45eee8428f#ht_3962wt_896
Named after you even!
ever seen them in sizes around 6mm?
You see 06 sized trapezoidal inserts, but I think they are much too big for milling cutters
I'm hoping to cut inconel
the carbide stuff we have says it'll do it but its going to be *slow*
Very near the bottom of http://www.sumitomo-hardmetal.co.uk/produkte-detail.php?lang=en&nr=4
Helicalmaster award winning endmill for hardened steel
That's the one
At least you know it exists now
I figured it would lol
single flute though, we are going to need the spindle for that one lol
hope to be making an air spring thing on the mill today to counterbalance the head
Yes, especially at the recommended 1500m/min
Actually, that was the other one, you only need 100m.min
they say 80-170m/minute is that surface speed or travel speed?
ahh thats not so insane then
19 mm/rev on a 6mm cutter
9000 rpm for 6mm dia and 170m.min
5263 for 100m/minute
bit more than our current max of 1600
[00:18:22] <andypugh> http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/Speed_Increaser.html
geez and I was worried that it was only single flute ;-P
lol thats insane
Something like that that clamped firmly round the quill might be an option. (that one looks a bit spindly)
probably better just to get/make a real spindle
Ah, you never mentioned you had a budget!
Lots of cheap high speed spindles on eBay, I have no idea if they are any good, but there are many threads on CNCzone
BigJohnT is now known as jthornton
we dont have a budget ;-> but theres not much point doing crap
well i still havent gotten another following error on the lathe
I feel left out, I don't think I got booted
I don't even see the join/leave on most of my computers
I think I will bore out the mill column this weekend. I don't have to use the bore, after all.
But then I can put it back together and it stays back together.
(11:29:42) andypugh left the room (quit: *.net *.split).
(11:32:17) andypugh [~email@example.com] entered the room.
Hopefully I will avoid getting distracted by the possibilities of a CNC conversion of the Kearns S-type.
kearns s type?
20:32 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: atmega, tris, EbiDK, herron_, toastydeath, piasdom, Optic, DaViruz, justin__, renesis, (+47 more, use
is that one of those itty bitty boring mills
Tiny little thing. Cute almost.
was that you who posted the link to one
it probably was.
they come up on PM once in awhile
If you have the space, and the money, get one.
They can do anything badly, and what they are meant for very well indeed.
girlfriend has agreed to move into a warehouse, so space won't be a restriction
manual 20x20 / 30x30 boring mills come up from time to time at the price of a good lathe, so I think I'll wind up with one of those
by which I mean they make a fairly good horizontal mill and a fair lathe, both with huge capacity, but if you want to bore bearing housings in a gearbox at the correct centres, then face the cover area, then flip it round on the table to bore the same coordianates on the other face. nothing can beat them.
Power feed to a radial slide on the rotating chuck (think power feed to a mill boring head) is very nice. And I have no idea how it is achieved in a mechanical sense
depends on the mill
Ours has a plate which says "Facing Chuck Model" and if you are buying one I would makesure you have that
most boring mills have facing heads
esp. manual one
i'd really like to get to tool around on a boring mill of any variety
i really enjoy using horizontal mills
the 4th axis horizontal OKK at my old work was one of my favorite machines
it was from the 60s or something
When I do my column I will: Bolt the column flat to the table flat on the dovetail squared against blocks in the table T-slots. Fit the 4MT adaptor and drill a big hole in the end. Find a nice overhung boring bar and then bore for a couple of feet from the bored hole into the column, then twiddle the facing feed a few tens of thou, and repeat. When at diameter I will fit a much shorter tool, engage the facing feed and face o
register for the ballscrew drive.
I don't thing you could do the job on any other machine.
(well, possibly on a big lathe with a faceplate, but setup would be awful, and the imbalance of a mill column whirling round doesn't bear thinking about)
this layout messes with my head! http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6900/saa1027fulls.png
oh man....2 7oz burgers in a row may not have been the smartest decision ive made in awhile :/
I don't like hamburgers enough to eat two at once
I have some parker PK stepper drives that you sink for step/dir. Can I do that via a p-port with a 2n7000 or plain NPN? Will they have any speed issues?
cheese burger with angus burger chaser ftw ;->
now a baltimore crabcake those I can eat
hamburger is basically dogfood people decided they liked too
these were made from meat from the local meat market fram grass fed cows
GonMD so you're trying to say that your butcher slaughters cows too old to milk anymore?
because beef cows are usually grain fed
i dont know. i dont ask those questions. i just know that that i havnt eaten fast food in the last 6 months because these taste so good
GonMD no more kanga-burgers for you?
puts some bounce in your step!
the last time I set foot in a mcDonalds bell bottoms were the hot fashion
pfred1: doesn't look too convoluted
nice power and ground along top
though I would have expected a ground plane
even single layer boards generally fill everywhere extra with ground
then again, most circuits I work with are very sensitive to noise :P
this circuit is sensitive to making noise
being a stepper motor driver
ought oh it sounds like Ubuntu is going to turn into the spam distro! http://www.readwriteweb.com/cloud/2010/03/canonical-ubuntu-one-music-ser.php?utm_source=ReadWriteCloud&utm_medium=rwchomepage&utm_campaign=ReadWriteCloud_posts&utm_content=Canonical
worth it? http://qurl.org/vx0
R8 taper but with 575 motor... would have to replace that.
was looking for cat30 but will settle for R8 ;)
pfred1 leave a ground plane also means you need to remove less copper
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
hmm, as its a hybrid motor what would happend if i get say coil1 and coil2 is supposed to be connected, but i manage to get them turned around so i get + - - + on the coils insted of + - + - so the magnetic field goes the same way on them both ? :)
if you look at the sequence, current is reversed anyway, its only when a pair of coils are put in parallel that you need worry
archivist, but still in serial it has to break the same as in parallel ? :)
[08:22:41] <MrSunshine> http://www.designworldonline.com/uploads/ImageGallery/BIG%20ITEM.gif
<-- there on the serial one, say i managed to connect Yellow to Gray insted of blue to gray ? :)
so a bipolar wired + - - + for a pair in series is very wrong
that will effectivly reverse the magnetic field of one of the small coils
are you losing power and steps
good morning from germany someone can help me with a shape to copy 5times 60degree eatch around a center ?
is there a cycle that can do this for me or do i have to use coordinate offset
roberth_ is now known as robh__
good morning from germany someone can help me with a shape to copy 5times 60degree eatch around a center ?
is there a cycle that can do this for me or do i have to use coordinate offset
herron_ is now known as herron
GoTschA_ is now known as GoTschA
archivist, well it stalls out at everything from 600mm/min to 1200mm/min
and stalls out automagicly when in air
if i hold it it runs fine at over 600mm/min
[09:36:26] <MrSunshine> http://www.brundin.biz/images/extra/STM76-185-wire-serial.jpg
if i connect that, red to - and red/white to plus it turns CW, shouldnt it do that when i connect blue to blue/white also ? :)
so blue is - and blue/white is + ? :)
ahh nm, depends on where the motor is standing :/
well it turns heavily on when i connect my A+ to A- and B+ to B-
but if i reversed it like i would have one coil reversed in the serial connection it turns realy easiely
i guess they have to be connected right then ad that its the driver + that i have to run it on 0.2A less then rated + that i have to run it in serial that is causing the problems ;OP
PCW: you there?
if he is awake then he is a real early riser as it is 4am over there
is there comething broken with the 7i43 configs?
they complain about missing stuff all the time
not that I know of but I don't have a 7i43
what version of EMC?
that's what I'm using with my 5i20 and daughter cards
does it load sometimes or never?
never with the new bitfile
I can load it with the old one
but now it complains about missing signals like stepgen enable
I have a 7i47 board
lots of plugs on that board :)
yeah thugh I dont get why the bitfile dosent work
the pinfile seems wrong
I get the direction for one axis on the worng pin...
I used dmesg to find out my pins on the 5i20
the next question is how to get the limit switches and stuff working with this
with a 7i37?
are they just switches?
inductive sensors on theis machine
npn I think
signal to - and 24v to + on the card
24v to the 7i47
if your signal is 0V then yes if it is the same as the 7i37 card
that'll make the difference between gnd and + 24v which is outside the spec
common mode range says -7 +12v...
I have two 7i37s connected to my 5i20 for I/O I don't connect directly to the 5i20 with I/O
mhm, I see
so, should I get a 7i37 for the i/o also?
and use this as out's ?
I'm not sure how the 7i47 works but it looks like from the picture that you connect to it directly
maybe pcw will wander by in a bit
* anonimasu nods
we'll see then
cant I just wire up one side of the inputs to 0v and use 5v as signal ?
on the other
I just read the manual on the 7i47 and know less about it than when I started...
what does it plug into to the PC?
YEA! Peter to the rescue!
pcw_home: what does the 7i47 plug into to communicate with the pc?
The 7I47 is a differential driver/receiver for then Anything I/O FPGA cards
it has 12 differential inputs for things like encoders, and 12 differential outputs
for thinks like step drives or pwm driven servo drives. For step drives that common
their input OPTOs (so you can drive them differentially) you can use the 7I47 outputs single ended
sigh so many typos:
(so you _can't_ ...
so you plug it into a 5i20?
or a 7i43 or a 5i23 etc.
It has a somewhat funny FPGA side pinout so the screw terminals come out in a sensible way
which is why then new config file was needed for anonimasu as no 7I47 compatible config file existed for the 7I43
PCW_ is now known as PCW
is EMC 10.04 in the works?
hi someone managet to install heekscad on karmic 64
i just scored some Nema 34 BLDC servo's and drives off ebay
[14:48:24] <mikegg> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200451589004&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
lucky boy 31dollars
i know! i was suprised. that servo retails for like $800
yes it does
I think I'm going to mount them on a Syil X4
how will you power the 325VDC?
17 lb-in... sweet! I'll take 3 :)
he had drives for sale that I bought as well
drives are one thing. power supply?
the drives take 120VAC and have an internal DC powersupply. I hope! :)
lemme double check that one
hi someone managet to install heekscad on karmic 64
there are only i386 packages
[15:00:52] <mikegg> http://servo2go.com/product.php?ID=100482&cat=
the drives take in 120 VAC and output up to 175 VDC
6000 RPM at 325 VDC? with a 20 TPI leadscrew that would be 300 in/min
I think they will be fine at 175 VDC
can someone help me by generating a NC-prog for emc2 for this part http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/250310160515_weel.jpg
looks like a school project :P
is there a cycle that makes these holes around the center
no beginning to interupt with emc
i want to overcome the stuff igot with open source fithing with the erros
is it posible to got the hole into an lable and then take this lable around
should be. 'rotate n-times m-degrees' kind of thing
G77 is the internatial code on the Fanuc
PCW: what about the inputs?
can you wire one end to ground and hav e 5v signal input on the other?
anonimasu: no lag, you added a space too early ;)
the fastest drill cycle is g81 or i am wrong
No. bu t if you disable termination you can wire one input to 2.5V (use 2x 100 ohm resistors from the 5V for a 2.5V reference)
and use the other input for a 0-5V signal
(a single 2,5V reference can be used for all inputs)
sealive: g81 uses constant feed. no retraction. so yes, it is the 'fastest' drill cycle.
as if you were only using a feed in Z-axis.
mikegg: 300in/min would be great. if the ballscrews could handle the acceleration
20TPI is rather fine. what is the dia. of them?
heh i dunno yet
I may have the cart in front of the horse here
just saw a good servo package going for cheap on ebay
't help my self :)
now i managet to install heekscad on a xbuntu 600mhz 128mb ramm with CNC/cam!
I hate dealing with duties and such, or I would have put in a bid
so as icome from PROE i now will start with Faces first time
PCW: so for each input I need to supply the 2.5v for the other diff pin?
hmm i have a powerupply that can supply 39V 10.9A, i want to run 3 stepper motors on this each drawing 4A of current ... will that powersupply alone hold up against that ?
each will draw 4amps continuously?
the way an efficient controller works is by 'micro pulsing' the current demand. this way you can use a 2A ps with 3 motors of 1A draw. since not all 3 draw at the exact same time.
at 4A you can calculate 75watt per motor
elmo40, i dont know, rated 2V 4A
rated and usage are two different things
worst case shoud never happen if all is wright
unless you are helically interpreting in all 3-axis at the same time, they will never demand that load.
so that will be 225W the power supply is 350W so it should be able to cope quite easily then :)
that all axis may use the may rate at the same time
yes with 32v/for 2V stepper you will reatch 1200mm/min at 4mm Tread
jo men då landar jag på 600$ + frakt ist för 441$ + frakt
är lite skilnad i hur mycket pengar som lär ut
speciellt om det kommer moms på det
wrong channel :P
oh is this so heavy to get a jape in face mode cad i now try to make a hole in a cylinder for 20min nothing
2 circle extrude does not work
i try to generate this http://www.pictureupload.de/originals/pictures/250310160515_weel.jpg
in proe 2min
that drawing is dimensioned pretty badly - I'm not sure what it's trying to say
they are dimensioning between cc of holes..
err c and tne centerline..
looks like 3mm and 6mm circles 6mm and 14mm from the center, then connect with tangents
the other crazy numbers 5.709? no idea what those are supposed to be
and a tangent line between them...
how is one side of a 6mm circle 2.947 mm?
oh is that supposed to be where the tangent line meets?
"PCW: so for each input I need to supply the 2.5v for the other diff pin?"
Yes, but it can be from the same 2.5V divider (its awkward because the 7I47 is really intended for differential inputs)
* anonimasu nods
ok assuming what I said first, and 6 evenly spaced holes, that's really easy
and one of the 7i43 died after I tried powering up once
cradek this are the corners so ican programm nc direkt
yeah if those are actually the intersections, that makes very easy gcode to write
(especially if you use R format arcs)
little end is R1.5 and big end is R-3
I were powering it off 5v external with no hotplugging or anything like that
it dosent show any leds or anything
I started emc and it loaded the firmware and it failed because of the bitfile so I turned off the powersupply and went home
No LEDS may mean no 3.3V which may mean a blown FPGA or CPLD
Note, you should not load the standard SVST4XXXX bitfile with the 7I47 connected as the pinouts are different
and I/O conflicts will occur
better replace the computer I run emc off in case it's the powersupply
my newer system says "parport mode 4" not supported something
I dont think that matters
cradek: how can i draw tangential between circels ?
sealive: depends on your cad package I'm sure?
or do you mean calculate the intersections by hand?
then you are uor some nontrivial math
nah, just draw some right triangles
hypotenuse is the tangent line
you get similar triangles, one for each circle
er no, hypotenuse goes through the circle centers
sorry, I've never used heekscad
PCW_ is now known as PCW
well, shit happens :/
angle of those tangent lines is 10.62 degrees
so perpendicular is 90-that, use r cos theta, r sin theta based off each circle's center to find the intersections
better order a new board soon
I just drew the two similar triangles like I said earlier to solve for that angle
now that I know how to solve it I'm too lazy to find the answers :-)
witch cad do you use it this open?
Weve had one other customer with a blown 7I43, also with an external power supply
might be safer to use the PC supply when testing
sealive: I used a pencil
to generate the NC code!
well I used a calculator to find atan(1.5/8)
now that emc has coordinate system rotation this would be simpler to write by hand
direct draw in emc
but then how can i copy the holes with the tangent around or do i have to calculate every ege
if using emc 2.4 you can just rotate the coordinate system 60 degrees each time
if not using emc 2.4, yeah just rotate the points by hand after you calculate the easy ones
is there a g-code to do this or ?
no, you'd have to use a calculator if using emc2.3 or earlier
seams a lot of work for not bying the 5.400euro ProeFull stream Home vercion
i go to bed thanks for your help
you will not regret figuring it out - machinists need to be able to do trigonometry :-)
[16:51:43] <DaViruz> http://daviruz.meeep.net/gallery2/v/eye-fi-dump/IMG_1783.JPG.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
touchy will bring me happyness!
DaViruz: I see you're using the laptop inverter board for backlighting, but what do you have the LCD connected to in the PC ?
it's a intel D945GSEJT board, it has lvds video output
(lvds is the signalling standard used in laptop screens)
DaViruz: Ah, ok. and that LCd has a touchscreen overlay?
DaViruz: and that uses the LVDS connector too?
nope that's separate
the laptop uses a PS/2 itnerface for the touchscreen, unfortunately that board does not have a ps/2 mouse port
but there is a usb touchscreen controller that i suspect will work
[16:59:50] <DaViruz> http://www.tvielectronics.com/Products/TouchScreen_Controller.html
That's the first mobo I've seen without PS/2 (been waiting for that for a while)
it has ps/2 keyboard though
don't you remember the time when everyone was talking about "legacy free" motherboards?
DaViruz: Oh, so you just need the Y-adapter then.
you know, with no ISA or VLB - PCI slots only and USB only for I/O
Jymmm: no, it only has keyboard signalling
no serial, parallel, or PS2 ports
i think the SuperIO-chip has mouse capabilities, but i can't find the pinout for it :/
DaViruz: Unless they funkified it, there should be both in there.
DaViruz: just need the right y cable
or just plug the mouse into the keyboard jack
the ps2 port is a 4pin pinheader on the motherboard
unless you need a keyboard too :)
and it only has keyboard capability
SWPadnos: doesn't work that way onfortunately
ps/2 mouse and keyboard ports are electrically identical, but they use different protocols
DaViruz: PS/2 is a very old protocol, you can mix/match it up
DaViruz: you just need the right cable
please believe me when i say so :)
try to plug a mouse in a ps2 keyboard port and see if it works
it will not
not with any cable
the SuperIO-chip will only understand keyboard protocol on that i/o pin
and even if it was possible to make it work i would need to rewrite the kernel driver to read from the right port
besides, the usb/rs232 touchscreen controller i pasted earlier is only $30, and it's pretty much plug and play
you may also want to look at USB->PS/2 adapters
they should be in the same price range, and would let you leave the (presumably functional) touchscreen alone
yeah, i thought about that, but i believe they will still requite a lot of driver coding
how can you say that without knowing how the touchscreen controller i have works?
(and corresponding driver)
I'm referring to the USB->PS/2 driver, not the touchscreen itself
the touchscreen driver reads the PIO port for the PS/2 mouse port directly
if you have a driver for the touchscreen, then the bus used to get the information to the PC shouldn't matter
a usb converter will transform the whóle deal to USB HID protocol
ok, in that case you have a lot of driver writing to do, regardless of what interface you choose
the controller i showed hooks up directly to the resisitive layer on the screen
the Linux touchscreen driver should be based on the i8042 driver
and there is two linux drivers available for it
otherwise there would be issues with sharing that device with the keyboard driver
there are A LOT of linux touchscreen drivers :)
the driver for the touchscreen controller i have is actually pretty much merged with the psmouse driver in the kernel
it just checks the bios edid at boot to see if it's a fujitsu lifebook machine, and if so, loads the driver
what is the point of 'unhome all' ?
elmo40: You know, those 40yo kids still living at home.
btw, a ps2 port has two unused pines. laptops usually use these to carry keyboard signals, and mouse signals on the standard pins. that's how a ps2 y-cable works, it doesn't work on desktop ps/2 ports
I can tell you that on my old laptop, which had one port, I was able to use either a mouse or a keyboard with no Y cable, and no driver setup
I could unplug one device and plug in the other, and it would just work
I'm not positive, but I believe I have also plugged a keyboard into the port labeled for the mouse, and had no trouble
that certainly warrants experimentation
I will say this though - the Linux drivers are much better than the Windows (2000) drivers
Windows won't usually detect a hot-plugged keyboard, whereas Linux works just fine
to kick them out, eh?
elmo40, I don't really remember all the reasons for adding unhome at all, but it seems that having the ability to unhome everything would be useful if unhoming a single axis is
I think it may have had to do with e-stop or that kind of thing - if a stepper stalls or you have to e-stop the machine, you probably don't want to continue machining without re-homing
but I really don't recall why it was a good idea at the time :)
mouse only works in mouse port here :/
if you have one port and it 'says' Mouse, then it will only be for mouse.
but many laptops with a single ps/2 connection are blank.
either way, i'm not sure how much of the laptops touchscreen interface is integrated on the motherboard, it might not be possible to use it at all anyway
i'll just spend the $30 and get a controller that's guaranteed to work
I will have to try Touchy (with a mouse, though...) since I don't have a touchscreen atm.
the lvds cable was a real nightmare tomake, 1.0mm spacing connectors are _tiny_ :)
not to mention the contact elements that go into it
SWPadnos: unhome is needed to jog outside the old box to rehome. I want it on a hotkey
I plugged a USB keyb into my emc box, and both keybs work. I don't think they would in Windows
yep, they should
two mice too
nice, although I'd rather have 2 users if it does all that :)
no, you need Ultix or something like that :)
(back when hardware was expensive, there were machines that used two keyboards and one display with a split mirror, so you could have two people logged in at the same time)
[18:51:59] <Jymmm> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.29039
I did a battleships game like that. you were supposed to tape a sheet of cardboard up the middle of the screen :)
anyone from germany around? :P
A sheet of cardboard with a notch for your nose, so you could do lazy-eye stereo
frallzor, sealive left
anyone heard about bruflex then? =)
brand of cable
oh what you asked earlier, about the m6 in 2mm. you could put nuts behind it to improve its holding strength
too far in anyways for that =)
but it seemed it was 4mm even
stuff is attached with M8 now
yeah 2mm seemed rather light for anything on a mechmate. I used 2mm sheet on mine
its supposed to be 2mm where It was 4 =)
the 2 beams for the gantry
even if you're looking at a burr, it's still 4mm of thread :)
[20:10:18] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/vzBaIlmbW
how about this for controlcable?
EMI-shielded 5wire cable
My favorite error "Can't jog joint n further past min hard limit" implying "you dummy that is the wrong way" :)
JT-Hardinge: More like "You're hitting a brick wall ya jackass, go the other way!"
doctor, it hurts when I do this
every. single. time.
must have more torque!!
got torque? http://www.vapourforge.com/old/hotness/hotness_scaled.JPG
got torque? http://www.electricscotland.com/history/america/donna/hands/four_wheel_drive_tractor.jpg
heh but do you own that?
no, but my grandfather owns this
doesnt look like much to me ;-P
any germans now then? :P
... picture on other computer :(
it's a massive caterpillar tractor
lol I was just messin with yer
got torque? http://en.wikivisual.com/index.php/Crawler-Transporter
got torque? http://img.directindustry.com/images_di/photo-g/bucket-wheel-excavator-380521.jpg
yeah was just looking at that one
[21:26:53] <skunkworks> http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/
[21:27:27] <mikegg> http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=11609
i like that one
[21:27:34] <Valen> http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2006/11/biggest-and-hungriest-machines.html
the 2nd photo on there is the one I like
oh, same same
I want to convert my car to a V12
has a straight 6 in it now
Au falcon first picture I posted
(08:18:29) Valen: got torque? http://www.vapourforge.com/old/hotness/hotness_scaled.JPG
my jeep's got a straight six
runs pretty good
if your ball screw isn't stripped and the balls falling out from jogging into a stop, you don't have enough torque!
best operating conditions are found at the peak of smoke geneartion
is there some way to rotate the picture in the linuxdist on the live cd? want to mount the screen upside down
some video drivers let you rotate it with the "randr" (resize and rotate) extension
how to use?
I'm not an expert - it just took me 5 minutes to get my screen back to normal :-P
apparently, yes, my screen does support mirroring along x and y in lots of various ways, haha
try xrandr -o inverted
xrandr -o normal puts it back
alot of errors
'xrandr --prop' might tell you what your driver supports
* frallzor really wants softbuttons in touchy
combined start/paus and a stop
touchscreen start/pause/stop is a bad idea. use real buttons for those!
some day maybe, but I will need some soft ones soon
minimum controls to run touchy: start button, stop button, single block/feedhold toggle switch, wheel
what I have; none
continuous jog buttons are nice, but not necessary
what I can fit atm: none =)
what you can't use then: touchy
*keeping thoughts to himself*
NOW I have chips all over the place :)
how about making a ugly way, binding start, stop etc to keys on the keyboard?
frallzor want to see my latest PCB art?
[22:25:29] <pfred1> http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3529/saa1027brd.png
different background to normal
I still say you want a ground plane
yeah you can pick white this tan or black
whats it do anyway?
I am going to point to point wire it this is just so I put the wires in the right places
its a stepper motor driver
based on an antique SAA1027 IC
I have two laying around
toner transfer is pretty easy yaknow
Valen tell that to the two toner cartriges I wasted doing it
at $160 a pop!
isn't that like 4000 pages each?
well I run that PNP blue crap through it and they get messed up
personally, I'd give up after the first 1000..
dude thats not toner transfer
well I spose it is
but its some other kind of crap
I can't believe how nice the finish is on parts cut on the Hardinge this 3" chunk of CR looks like a mirror on the OD the face is ok for a bit but gets rough as you move to the center
we do toner transfer with normal white paper, a hot iron and thats about it
[22:29:32] <pfred1> http://www.techniks.com/
most people say glossy magasine paper is best but i havent used it
what they don't tell you is how fast it ruins toner cartriges
cant see it bothering the toner cart, the drum and fuser perhaps
ruins laser printers in minutes!
yeah like I said, http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-and-Easy-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/
well my cartriges have some blue thing in them that looks like a fluroescent tube or something and that crap gets on them and then its done
I've tried cleaning it and they're just spent
pfred1: trying to make a PCB?
oh I've made PCBs
probably a uv illuminator to charge the drum or something
no try about it
but you make one and you're done
have you heard what I said about using plain paper?
yeah maybe its something else in the printer thats messed up seems like when I put a new carteige in it its OK until I run the transfer junk through it again
Valen sure but I'm not that good at ironing really
you dont iron it like a shirt
you use the iron to fuse the toner onto the pcb
Valen thats good because I've never ironed a shirt :)
i wind up scorching the paper half the time
I've done it and have had so so results overall I'd say toner transfer is marginal technique at best
works fine for us
pfred1: have you tried engraving?
I want ot try sensitized boards they've really come down in price
and its THE way to make PCBs
alot of mucking about with developers and UV and such
its just one develop
no worse than playing washer woman with an iron
I would think engraving would be a good option for small runs, and you gotta have it in there for drilling holes anyway
WalterN I drill my boards out on a mini drill press
so you dont have access to a cnc mill?
WalterN I wouldn't use it for that even if I did drilling a board is no big deal
*shrug* I guess
I only did one once, and that was just with a picture and toner method for proof of concept
it would seem to me that CNC engraving it would be the way to go
a good etch takes about 2 minutes no wear and tear
the actually tanking
oh, the UV method?
well no matter how you lay down the resist
the actually etching goes fast if you're doing it right
hmm... etching with what?
ferric chloride though I want to try hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide
hydrogen peroxide <3
supposedly hydro is self scrubbing
what kind of purity do you need for that?
donno I'm going to try with drug store 3%
you just add it as an oxidizer
I dont think that would work
you can get 50% easily enough
you don't need it
the acid does the etching
just be very careful
oh, using the H2O2 for cleaning?
the peroxide just acts like a catylyst
now I'm confused
hydrochloric acid all by itself would eat the copper off the board
but with the peroxide mixed with it it goes faster
and when you etch the faster the cleaner
what is the reaction?
I don't know off hand but when you dump copper it it makes something else that also etches copper
cupric acid maybe? was a while ago I read about it
where as ferric chloride the more you use it the beater it gets
try some 50%
its easy to get
muratic is hydrochloric acid
supposedly you mix it with hydrogen peroxide and its really nasty
hydrogen peroxide is really nasty by its self
nah I've put it on cuts
makes htem bubble
which i guess is sorta nasty all by itself
there are only like 3 other things that are more reactive than hydrogen peroxide
one of them is fluorine
but when I used ot etch with ferric chloride bubbling the bath used to make ah uge difference in etch
the other can be made with hydrogen peroxide
I heard in england they don't even sell hydrogen peroxide anymore
since some terrorist attack or something
you are in england?
yaknow if you were keen you would CnC up a die out of steel or graphite then electroplate the copper off the boards ;->
hydrogen peroxide + acetone = an explosiveish substence
ok, then 50% pure is easy to get
downside its stupidly sensitive
Valen I'm trying to cut back on explosions in my life anymore
peroxide isnt anywhere near as reactive as some of the good oxidisers, but its unstable
Valen: hydrogen peroxide and anything = explosive
your thinking of the organic peroxides
well 3% should be pretty safe
you can drink the stuff
people use it as mouthwash
not reccomended but yaknow
your not going to do that with flourine
or pure H2O2
pure H2O2 is one of the best oxidizers around
my board does look good enough to etch though don't it?
I'm on a rocket mailing list, one of the groups had an accident the other day that wound up with it raining peroxide on people
nobody had any holes in them
some white spots perhaps ;->
I was gonna say they must have all looked liek cheap dates after that stunt
nah it happened at altitude, vented the tank, the vehicle came down and they all left the bunker to see what was going on
Valen: maybe it oxidized partly in the air
then they felt the drops, somebody put 2+2 togther and they all ran back into the bunker
[22:55:54] <WalterN> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide#Redox_reactions
even with 50% you pour on a piece of wood and it will catch fire
50% is actually 25% pure by volume
WalterN so, they sell hydrogen peroxide like its booze then?
pfred1: for industrial use
for example, in Oregon they use it for roasting hazlenuts
well 80 proof is 40% by volume
or red horse which is 190 proof
and tastes just like I'd imagine paint thinner would if I ever drank the stuff paint thinner that is
the reason why its 25% is because of the weight difference of water and H2O2
tastes kinda salty
peroxide that is
100% peroxide is 100% peroxide
well red horse just tastes like you poured acid down your throat
water is 8lbs/gallon and H2O2 is 12lbs/gallon
though you cant get that
50% is packed full of stabilisers like tin
unless you can get semiconductor grade
yeah the semi biz uses some nasty chemicals
peroxide is probably the nicest lol
I remember reading an article back in the 80s and they had a picture of an island the whole island was covered in 55 gallon drums of toxic waste from the semi industry
covered 3 barrels deep!
ha, I was thinking trucks
you don't think those far eastern contries do the right things do you?
heh get a load of this
in Newark NJ they load up old semi trucks full of toxic waste then abandon them on the streets
let the state worry about them
they even do it with tires sometimes too
thats NJ for you
well maybe they do it elsewhere i believe its people who do it
but its the only place I've ever been where I've personaly witnessed it being done
for the 50% stuff you can get a 55gallon drum for $300
these old beat to death trucks they fill them up then park them and leave them
I bet they pull the batteries out of them before they go though
but if you go to a place that sells or uses a lot of it, they might let you buy a small container full
nah there's nothing around me now
well discounting chicken houses and soy bean fields
I need to get some 80-98% stuff
if it ain't got feathers or grow out of the dirt it's just not by me now
FMC sells the pure stuff, but its shipped from texas
kinda expensive though
everything is expensive today
even dirt ain't cheap anymore!
liquid oxygen is cheap...
yeah? it shouldn't be it takes a lot of energy to liquify oxygen
I think its because its a byproduct for making something else that is more desireable
I know when i get an oxidizer cylinder filled it isn't cheap
atmoshpere is only 2% argon
so you get a lotta oxygen getting a little argon
they still don't sell it to me cheap though
really? how do you buy it?
really they're about the same price as I can recall
I have a 244 oxidizer and a 330 argon they're about the same to fill
though the argon does last a lot longer
because it dosent boil off
no because of how I use it
wait, are you buying liquid or gas?
oxidizer i use with a torch well I use argon with a torch too but a TIG torch and as shield gas
gas but they make it from liquid
they liquify atmosphere to make both gasses
I donno where they get acetylene from
though oddly enough acetylene is dissolved in acetone in tanks
its just a hydrocarbon
thats why you're not supposed to run acetylele tanks laying down this brown goo comes running out of them if you do
I think it has a smaller structure than propane
ah there's something about high pressure acetylene which is why they dissolve it
its some safety thing
I think it would be fun to play paintball with something like that... and a little igniter at the end of the barrel
it's dissolved in somethign
Eric_K I always heard its acetone
and the brown goo is rust
though it don't look liek acetone when it comes out of the tank
well I think there is some kind of clay in there too
tanks have changed from the old days
I never cracked an acetylele tank open to really chouck out the whole gory story
I'm sure they learn something new every explosion
the one I just traded in looked like it was made to explode
they have melt out plugs in them
lead i believe
it had this really rickety valve just sitting on top
sounds like a "B" tank to me
easy to knock off and no cap either
yeah thats a B tank
I got the next larger size
plumbers sweating tank
or maybe an 80
argon is .93% of the atmosphere
Valen its higher by me when I'm TIG welding a lot
acetlyne is a very unstable molecule
all I use is argon I've tried al lthe other crap and argon is the stuff
well i never did heliarc
I like argon too much to switch
CO or CO mixes suck
they disolve it in acetone because to compress it into the tank would almost certainly cause a detonation
a proper high order one at that
Valen yeah anything over 15 PSI acetylene is bad news
I belive they have some matrix material for argon as well
not just pressure
I donno I changed a tank over once they just slapped a different sticker on it
could be wrong
from what to what?
argon is about as safe as you can get
oxidizer ot argon
they purged the tank and then filled it
Valen: nope, argon is inert.. they just stick it in the bottle
I know its inert, I just seemed to recall some kind of ceramic sponge they used to be able to pack it in better
Ne, Ar, Kr, Xe, Rd
there are compounds of argon
Valen: nah, that's for acetylen
acetylene they use acetone I believe
they use a sponge for acetylene
the idea is to keep pockets from forming (large volumes of gas)
Valen: argon is a noble gas... basically nothing reacts with it
Valen: except something like flourine
that's why you can get into trouble when you drop an acetylene bottle
WalterN I guess enough argon could suffocate you
but then again
Valen: the sponge compacts, leaving cavities
florine will react with just about anything
WalterN well noble gasses don't react with anything
or they'd make crappy welding shields
pfred1: not entirely true ;)
It is therefore shipped and stored dissolved in acetone or dimethylformamide (DMF), contained in a metal cylinder with a porous filling (Agamassan), which renders it safe to transport and use, given proper handling.
it's true for MIG welding (metal inert gas welding)
but not for MAG or others
alex_joni all I know is I know when the gas isn't on as opposed to when it is!
pfred1: sure ;)
In August 2000, the first argon compounds were formed by researchers at the University of Helsinki. By shining ultraviolet light onto frozen argon containing a small amount of hydrogen fluoride, argon fluorohydride (HArF) was formed. It is stable up to 40 kelvin
TIG is nice, but sloooow
and not very tolerant to faults
yeah but you only have to make one part
rather than 5 to get the mig settings right
Valen: didn't get that
heh yeah I reflow a lot of crappy MIG joints with my TIG
which bit of what didn't you get? I've been talking a fair bit of crap recently
I've gotten better mIG welding though
Valen: it's all about a bit of experience
and a good machine
I basically look at it as endless stick welding and it works out for me
migs good if your doing alot of the same stuff
* alex_joni does mostly MAG welding
if your doing one offs i'd take tig anyday
depends on the material
pfred1: nope, just like MIG but not using argon, using CO2/Ar mixture
I only have TIG (though I can fasten a stick holder to the machine)
alex_joni I've used the mix i hate it
the CO2 reacts with the material, giving more penetration depth
I run pure argon burns hotter
hmm when i ran mix it was cooler
it also adds carbon to the weld which is normally a bad thing
Metal Inert Gas / Metal Active Gas ?
pfred1: by itself maybe, but using CO2 you get lots more penetration
Co2 is hotter I think
wasn't for me
Valen: nah, CO2 gets broken into CO and O2
yes, CO2 is hotter
well I was just able to tig with it, (ran out of argon) dad coudn't needed the tip ~3mm from the job
I tried the 25/75 mix and didn't like it maybe if I mixed my own it'd grow on me but i run pure argon works for everything
but CO2 by itself is a PITA
lots of spatter, etc
25 is bad
we also used the Co2 with the tig to do some cutting
you need 18 or less
its hotter because its harder to ionise than the argon
well suply house i dealt with only had one mix
I gave it a shot
usually we take 82/18
that's 18% CO2
I don't expect a whole lot of penetration with MIG
up to 20% is tolerable for pulsed MAG
or grind if i want it
it also depends on the params and material thickness
the last application I did was on 20mm sheets ;)
yeah if its thick enough I'd just as soon stick it
we have one Miller that has almost no splatter on straight co2
stick is useless
alex_joni maybe for you but its what everyone uses for ehavy stuff in the field
a portable one that can use paint ball canisters
pfred1: it's only useful in some limited cases (construction site for example)
alex_joni 10 stories up on new construction MIG is useless
pfred1: I agree on that
but otoh if you need to weld something serious 10 stories up, then the design is flawed
why not just thermite weld like the R&R folks
alex_joni roof deck plating?
how you think that stuff goes down?
alex_joni: isn't that an issue of volume?
you get good and drunked up then go burn holes!
and you do it with a stick
ds3: no, the process itself is expensive
pfred1: industry in the early 2000's was at about 85% MIG/MAG welding
vs. 85% stick welding in 1950's
I'd expect it to have grown lately.. or rather the stick percentage to have dropped
there are newer process which take up some share these days
like laser/hybrid, friction steer, spot welding, etc
I hardly ever weld
* JT-Hardinge remembers 36" long 1/2" diameter stick welders butt joining plates in the shipyard in the 70"s
pfred1: btw, I do this for a living ;)
I would think that Co2 mig would be cheaper than stick because labour costs would be lower
its a hack way to fabricate
alex_joni: I mean the number of joins... for someone that does a handful of joints...renting tanks and other equipment isn't cheap either
I did a project on electron-beam welding. Just butt two slabs of 3" steel next to each other, and then do a full-thickness weld in one pass with no filler.
Valen: it is.. the machines are a tiny bit more expensive though
thats why we dont tig anymore
alex_joni yeah i weld better than half the "pros" out there though
well, I don't weld myself (except hobby-wise)
but I do sell welding robots
yeah but the machine is worth 4 weeks wages for the welder so on a year long project its probably not even really counted
and machines ;)
from the point of view of the guy running it
Valen: too bad they don't look at it that way usually
pipe robots are nice
* JT-Hardinge mind wanders off to see if the spindle lock is interlocked with the spindle go
except through magic smoke
My spindle lock is interlocked, with the lock bar in place the suds shield won't drop down, and that is interlocked :-)
andypugh: electron beam welding is cool, but you need lots of precision
precise parts, alignment, etc
I always tell people 90% of welding is preperation
Yes, the 3" slabs of metal needed to touch all the way along.
I've seen 150-200mm penetration on electron-beam welding
that's really awesome to see
They told me they could do a metre (3') but my project didn't need that.
laser's great too, but likewise expensive
andypugh: heh, I don't want to imagine how you need to prepare those parts
alex_joni yeah but with a laser you could be Dr. Evil!
I'll skip that
off to be for me ...
The wierdest process that they had at the welding place (http://www.twi.co.uk/content/main_home_index.html)
was friction surfacing. You spin a rod of hard metal (I think it was monel) against a surface and smear it on like lipstick. What I couldn't figure out was that they could surface aluminium that way.
andypugh: that's friction steer welding
I hate welding aluminum
when it works it works great but then it messes up
for aluminum there's not much around TIG
in the shipyard they had steel and aluminum pressure welded together for the transition from main deck to superstructure
I swear the phase of the Moon has to be right in order for me to successfully weld aluminum
It wasn't a welding process (I have heard of stir welding). This was coating aluminium with a harder, higher melting point, metal.
should be fun to watch
my TIG is fixed frequency and i think its just isn't fixed too welld to do aluminum with
more important than frequency is balance for welding aluminum
though i hear now htey say use a point like steel as opposed ot the ball they used ot say to run with and I haven't given that a shot yet
TIGging copper is freaky
I weld probably once every couple of months or less. It pains me to pay the bottle hire @ £7 a week
you should be able to select the width of the pulses
yeah it sounds like my machine is going to explode when I do it
more of one alternance will mean more penetration, more of the other will mean more breaking the oxide
andypugh I own all of my bottles outright
pfred1: if you sharpen you electrode to a point for aluminum
you'll see after about 20 seconds that it will turn into a ball
I am not sure that is an option here. I don't think they will fill any but their owb bottles.
so I'd say don't bother ;)
say Goodnight Gracie
alex_joni thats what i hear now but when I started it was ball electrode style and that when it worked worked but when it didn't didn't
it's the AC that turns the electrode tip into a ball
you can start with a flat electrode, and you'll get the same ball
oh yeah I'd make my own
you don't need to grind it into a ball
flat electrode end, start welding AC.. it will melt into a ball
of course not you can't grind a ball like that
well I can't
It's bad when the ball drops off into the weld, isn't it?
I mean you shouldn't
andypugh: depends on the part ;)
pfft aluminum drops first
but usually yeah, it's regarded as an inclusion and a fault
depending on the quality class it might be accepted (if it's small enough) or not..
it'd be beat when you went to machine the part thats for sure!
I use my tungstens as engravers sometimes
I had welds where you would have to have max 1 problem for 3m of weld
the 1 problem could be up to 1.5mm diameter
I picked up a bunch of thoriated tungstens for free once, I suspect I should probably get some more modern ones
t'was for railway parts
andypugh thats what i use 2% thorated
don't forget a mask when you grind them