it's the hovering and autolanding that needs practice, although Carmack seems to have solved that
to fly you just need to call up the FAA and tell them where when and how high basically
robot AI is next on the agenda for conquering the solar system
up until 2 years ago they held pumpkin chunkin about 2 blocks from me
now they hold it on the other side of town
[00:02:10] <pfred1> http://www.punkinchunkin.com/
I saw a worlds record in the trebuchet class set last year
guy launched over 4000 feet
talk about a bunch of drunken hicks!
my rowdy neighbors: http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1189/pict0594.jpg
I pass chunkenology around the corner from me all the time
I'm gonna put a tribe of pumpkin chuckers in my RTS
he lives on Rt 5
you americans and your guns -_-;
BlackMoon oddly he goes for a small gun as far as the pneumatic guns go
but he still posts respectable distances
BlackMoon I mean come on they are awesome to see shoot
BlackMoon: guns are teh awesome
WalterN_ with 10 inch diameter barrels they sure are
only one thing is more awesome than guns
50cal shot 100yard down rnge at a metal plate. Turn up the volume... http://v5.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=17vbid
nukes are probably quite awesome
Jymmm we could hit that with a pumpkin catapult!
pfred1: watch the video
I want an AA12
full auto 12gauge shotgun :D
oh, you can have the GUI and controller on separate machines?
WalterN_ I was watching mail Call the other day and lee had the first anti-tank gun on it it was big
TD-Linux Linux is pretty much designed from the ground up to network
so have most unixen
TD-Linux technically when you run X you run it on your loopback network
so has windows NT
so the GUI can't really be separated
pfred1: except that X locally also uses shared memory etc
though, that's beside the point
well sure all the resources come from the local machine
sounded like GUI and emc communicated via sockets... I guess they don't
oh cool I didn't know i had a picture ofthe back of my guest house
hey idea, what about a GPIO driver?
does linux run on a stellaris I wonder
TD-Linux the question isn't so much does Linux here but does EMC2
linux runs on just about anything. you can strip the kernel of PC specific stuff
TD-Linux which are kernel extensions that are probably X86 centric
MattyMatt thing is EMC hacks the kernel to do what it does
MattyMatt: I'm well aware of how the linux kernel works
pfred1: what kernel extensions would it need?
* TD-Linux looks it up
TD-Linux EMC is more than userspace
that's been done for ARM, I'm sure
pfred1: that would make sense, it would require kernel drivers for software stepping etc
is RTAI same as kernel built with realtime patches?
TD-Linux EMC needs it for real time preempted control
RTAI supports ARM, good
it would run on a stellaris
a soon as you port the ASM code
Jymmm: what is the ASM code for?
I would have to write my own anyway to use GPIOs
good lock yourself
Jymmm when you come i have a place to put you up: http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4757/23320860.jpg
Jymmm: I'll be sure to show you when I finish :)
I prefer writing asm to anything. I realised a while back that all my finished projects were 100% asm
TD-Linux: no thanks
... I should probably get my laser working first :P
the only thing I was ever able to write was asm
you know when you're finished, when you write asm :)
for which architecture?
"here's a loop, it works, I've shaved off 3 cycles, it's done"
z80, m68k & 386
I hate z80
it's easy to learn, but starts to get really annoying
TD-Linux all of my Z-80 chips don't like you very much either
only thing worse is 6502
Z80 is lovely, it's simple enough that you can learn the hex and not bother with an assembler :-)
210000 110010 010010 EDB0 C9
andypugh: true, I guess it isn't so bad now that I think out of it
but I've tried to write really complicated things in it
TD-Linux easy to learn and starts to get really annoying can describe any number of things
such as a 3D transform and rasteriser
I have a 6502 half-implemented in hardware
I won Best Arcade Game at the first Golden Joysticks
MattyMatt: I said you could, not that I did, or still remember it.
pfred1: why would I go to some hillbilly hideaway? I've seen Deliverance. =)
the 6502 instrution set makes sense up to a point
but then they ran out of bits and started smashing everything in random places
I went off z80 when I realised using the cisc instructions were slower than unrolled loops etc
if you look at 6502 schematics, they have a massive grid of mosfets to decode :P
MattyMatt: yeah it's funny, IIRC ldir was slower than a loop of 8 ld's
and stack abuse is 2x faster again
so many fun tricks with shadow registers :D
z80 became un-fun when I realized how I could optimize everything
Looking through the EMC website I saw someone using DAC outputs on a 5I20. However I don't see any mention of DAC on the Hostmot2 manpages?
and then I had to look at my code a day later
and figure out how it worked again
andypugh: Why would you need to?
andypugh: (just asking)
andypugh are you upgrading?
jackc_ is now known as jackc
anyway I'm using linear transport of CD-ROM drive as one axis of my pencil engraver :)
pfred1: What is that going to be? Too small for a house (I hope)
Jymmm oh thats my junk leanto
I was wondering if the 7i43 also had the option of DAC outputs. It just seems neater than PWM to voltage controllers for running servo drives etc.
pfred1: why the stick out?
Jymmm i like junk but don't like to look at it from the house
andypugh: analog is nastier than PWM
pfred1: Ok, but why not a square bldg?
Jymmm initially I didn't build it that way but then decided i needed a little more room
namely the voltage controllers usually need an ADC
and then use that to control the motor using PWM
Jymmm it does make it stronger it took the snow load this year
pfred1: You have all that land, and didn't bother to make a big ass storage?
ADCs are expensive, noisy, and slow
by noisy I mean electrically noisy
Maybe, but my servo drivers and VFD both take analogue not PWM, and I suspect that a DAC would make a better job of it than my funny little circuit.
Jymmm well I built it while I was moving down as I needed room to put stuff so there wasn't a whole lot of planning involved
andypugh: that's probably true
Jymmm the first half I put up in a weekend by myself
you're just filtering PWM output?
pfred1: Ah. Hey, what's that car way in the back?
Yes, and no.
Jymmm its a 1966 P1800S
pfred1: paint looks good, hows the body?
I have a current source, an opto-isolator and an isolated DC-DC converter and a "leaky bucket" but it is much the same as filtering PWM.
I think I might use another CD-ROM transport for the other axis too, it's more than I need but then I can engrave other things :)
Jymmm the rockers are rotting out on it again I welded stainless steel under it a few years ago so thats OK
Jymmm I think the guy who had it before me had it etched and they didn't kill it enough
pfred1: oh that bites
anyone have experience using CD-ROM optics? I was going to make my own until I realized that the ones in CD-ROM drives have electrically controllable focus
pfred1: running? stock?
Jymmm heh not stock no
pfred1: looks liek mags on the back
Jymmm real mags
pfred1: and modified suspentions
But anyway, why I want to know is irrelevant. I am still wondering if Hostmot2 has any supported bitfiles with analogue IO.
all bilstien and delrin bushings etc
vari rate springs you name it
TD-Linux: I saw an article on the PS3 BD drive. that looked fearsomely complicated
Jymmm I always say the only thing the car doesn't have is a supercharger
Jymmm and believe me the thought has crossed my mind
pfred1: so, that REALLY is your Hillbilly Hideaway, and you're run'in shine! I knew it!!!
MattyMatt: it would have to have 3 lasers, I imagine so
Jymmm actually the front trailer i have every reason to believe is a defunct meth lab
the DVD ddrives I've seen have two lasers
pfred1: did you buy the land site unseen?
with a beamsplitter
Jymmm there is just too much circumstantial evidence for it not to be
actually two beamsplitters
most old CD used a voice coil
Jymmm oh no I came down first
MattyMatt: for focusing you mean? that's what this one has
so in the latency tests listed on the wiki, the computer i have that's listed says to disable the smi.
seems to support two axis actually
BD drive had several beam splitters, wave plates etc
Jymmm this place took me over 4 years to find yo ushould have seen some of the stuff i passed on
pfred1: Where is this?
Jymmm Lower Slower Delaware
this particular drive has the laser driver and everything else in a single chip
Jymmm i come from new jersey so getting here was feasible to me
pfred1: You have water feature near by? creek stream pond?
yeah the lens must focus, and also track the 88.2khz wiggle
Jymmm the atlantic ocean
pfred1: no, something fresh water
Jymmm well behind me is a hunting club and they dug their own stock pond
pfred1: the trees make it look like there's water near by. make that's it.
Jymmm took them a couple of years but its done now far as I can tell i haven't heard them back therebeeping in a while now
Jymmm well the place is sort of a swamp
pfred1: Ok, that's what i was gonna guess the first time
Jymmm right now just about everyone around has some sort of a water feature on their property
pfred1: tall skiny trees
Jymmm hows this for a water feature: http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6593/flood2x.jpg
* MattyMatt invents flak jacket for alligators
pfred1: Hope ya didn't pay more than a goat and $2.35 USD
bah, it seems this particular drive is only a reader
pfred1: your driveway?
fortunately I have 8 more :)
Jymmm yeah i got that fixed though
pfred1: suspension bridge? lol
Jymmm turns out my culvert was blocked up
pfred1: I dont know what that is I think
does it affect the optics? are you going to use the laser to engrave?
pfred1: beaver dams?
Jymmm no under the driveway in the front is a pipe
Jymmm we have ditches on the sides of the roads here for drainage
Jymmm but mine wasn't draining except into my yard!
pfred1: how deep is the water in that pic?
Jymmm oh about a foot in places
pfred1: lol, oh man. and you passed up OTHER places?!
Jymmm yeah well i bought this place on the tail end of a 4 year drought its OK now it'll dry out the location is great
Actually, the reason I started looking at DAC outputs was some debate on the mailing list. Someone there needs a tach signal for his drives, and somebody else pointed out that Hostmot2 produces a pretty good velocity signal from the encoder module. But I can't see how that helps unless there is a good DAC module too.
pfred1: Ah. Whats the elevation ?
Jymmm 40 feet above sea level
andypugh: Ah, ok.
andypugh: I was jsut curious
Jymmm well I'm only about 6 miles from the coast
pfred1: still ouch
Jymmm this year was an el nino and we've just been getting hammered by weather
pfred1: Well, at least it's not NO, where they are BELOW sea level.
Jymmm least i don't have to worry about my well running driy for a couple of years now
crappers, this pc has pretty bad latency
yeah if it didn't rain for 3 years I'd still be set
aa-danimal-shop did you do the SDI trick is it?
andypugh hey i was close
no not yet... looks complicated
but it looks like i might have to
aa-danimal-shop it isn't does it spike like every 65 seconds or so?
SDI might be a bit overkill. Orbital lasers are good for latency though
MattyMatt: I was going to use a laser
this is a reader so I doubt the laser is as powerful as I wanted
... also, the linear transport is just a DC motor :P
aa-danimal-shop: The SMI instructions are a single step for newer installs, if you look. No compiling, just editing a config file.
aa-danimal-shop yeah getting clued into it is the biggest part of the deal doing it is easy
andypugh, that odd mill you saw on ebay, I went to look at it
define "newer install"
I decided against it, as it is basically a mechanical solution to a problem that CNC solves, and it looked rather limited on workbeice height.
i cant tell if it's because i'm playing a video on youtube plus running glxgears
andypugh yeah but it has those nice kraut castings ....
or if it's the smi stuff
there is a couple of problems any way http://www.archivist.info/blog/
it's going up to about 29k
It looks like a seriously well made machine
has backlash in the rotary
aa-danimal-shop that doesn't sound like SMI SMI is like 300K when it strikes
else felt good
aa-danimal-shop least it waso n my machine here
aa-danimal-shop fixed that PC w2as about 13K worst case
aa-danimal-shop but it could run about 7-8K pretty good i still sewt latency at 20K in stepperconf on it
still set even
it jumped to 100k for the servo thread
but you tube is choking
i wonder if it's a video card issue
video display with pure CPU is hard
whats the CPU
i just pulled this hdd out of my old lathe pc and slapped it in this one. It's the ubuntu install from the other machine
it's a 2.8ghz p4
it's a dell optiplex gx270
I've heard conflicting things about P4s
this box is P4
turn hyperthreading off in the bios
that could well help
archivist: It looks a lot bigger than I thoought too.
well the computer i just removed from the machine was a dell optiplex gx270 as well, but it was a tower, where the new one is one of those little horizontal cases
aa-danimal-shop don't youtube on your CNC machine that might help too!
Valen, no hyperthreading on this machine
pfred1, i just did it for the latency test. my other machine didnt have an issue with it
andypugh, as a source of castings for a fresh build or mod its pretty good
P4's do have it, just saying make sure you turn it off in bios even if you arent using the SMP kernel
aa-danimal-shop heh i was just kidding j/k
valen, not all p4's have it, right? i have a few p4's here with ht and a few without
with the exception of a few very early ones they do
was a big selling feature
andypugh, there are some parts I cant work out on it so far
at that clock speed I'd wager it does
Looks like it would need a kinematics module. There are 2 Z slides with an angular offset, and 2 C axes with variable offset..
if you cat /proc/cpuinfo it should tell you how many CPU's it can see
valen, i'll check, but i didnt see it in bios at all
type that in terminal?
(IE if it gives you the same info twice it can see 2 CPUs
aa-danimal-shop you can cd /proc and check out all the stuff you can cat or you can run a program called hwinfo that will spit out a detailed file of the system too
aa-danimal-shop it is best to rediredt > hwinfo to a file to read through
lshw is the good one pfred1 ;->
gives you *everything*
Valen haven't checked that one out hwinfo seems awfully exhaustive to me
andypugh, I think http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/djcpd/PD/2010/2010_03_20_beichle/IMG_0531.JPG
is just a calculator
lshw is also installed by default
as i recall
i dont see anything that makes me think it sees 2 processors
Valen any of them beat right clicking on My Computer don't they?
it'll have a block of text, the question is, is it one block or 2
If it goes for £150 that is a good price for the machine vice alone
you dont get the vice
andypugh it doesn't come with the vise
well you could argue that yo udon't want any new vices but you'll take the vise!
But yes, looks like you dial in surface speed and diameter and it reads out rpm. which is rather neat
cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep "processor" should cut the output down
but I saved some small press tools from his scrap pile
his main machines from the work he did will all be scrapped, presses
Are you going to bid on the device itself?
cant make my mind up yet
archivist always go with your first instinct
wallet has a retraining order on me
archivist while it is novel do yo ureally need that sort of novelty in your life?
I would have it, but I don't have the space, and it would cost a lot to move. But at £150 is it basically free :-)
I always need novelty
archivist I think if you be patient better machines will come down the pike
that is very rare
He's got better machines, but none are quite to wacky.
archivist what's it actually do?
its just a milling machine but laid out differently
Valen it looks like it sits there and collects rust to me
its a vertical on its side with extra slides and rotary built in
a 5 axis with stacked rotaries can do the same
archivist how much distance spindle to table is there?
I did not measure
archivist everyone that looks at it seems to thnk it has a low distance there but its hard to tell
Without the vice, and with both Z axes wound back, really quite a bit.
archivist a foot 6 inches what?
andypugh working on the table all the time sucks
been there done that
pfred1, see http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/deckel-maho-aciera-abene-mills/beichle-universal-mill-sale-109740/
archivist it looks just about all the way cranked back there and its just clearing the vise
the vice is not the sort of thing you would use normally, just bolt direct to the plate
The upper-Z is all the way in in that picture though.
andypugh oh yeah i didn't take that into account
A set of edge clamps might be more convenient.
seem designed to be able to sit and the machine to use
It seems designed to let you feed the tool into the work in any direction at all. Lots of degrees of freedom. The thing is that CNC makes a lot of that redundant.
he had a baby hand press but was waiting for the buyer to collect :((
archivist you're into crushing babie's hands?
I think a CNC conversion of it would be pointless, but it would make it possible to hand-machine a lot of things that would otherwise require CNC
andypugh I see myself doing lots of deep knee bends picking up jobs off the floor as i tried to get them onto the table
Yes, that too.
some sort of crane might be required.
i had an aciera f1. it had no table, no tslots. it had a tooling system that clamped little pallets. you set the pallet up on a similar fixture outside the machine ( while the machine cut on another pallet)
someone to hold stuff there while you clamp it down
It's a pretty daft machine layout really, isn't it?
Probaby designed for good workpiece visibility?
no very good to view what you are machining
yeah like a picture haning on the wall I'm sure
important hand wheels are in a comfortable position if seated
probably just right for a job that takes a long time
no wonder it never caught on no boss wants to see a worker sitting at a job for a long time!
that is one nice aspect of the vertical table configuration though as you mill pockets the chips just fall out ofthem
for a die sinker that would be important I think
yeah it sucks when you are hand milling a pocket and it gets so packed full of chips you can't see what is going on anymore
heh for die sinker: and old trick was to put the work on the head and the tool on the table IF the gas didnt get trapped in the cavity (its hydrogen)
Seen more than 1 edm on fire.
i make an estop fire sensor for edm, detects a certain light wave enegy and IF it flickers, for n mSecs, it opens a relay.
Good idea if unattended.
hard to be foolproof, dang fools are pretty clever
they keep breeding better fools
tom3p: how does edm catch fire? isn't it submerged?
Submerged in a flammable liquid...
or maybe YOUR edm is in flammable liquid
The one I used to use used parrafin.
oh, I thought you meant like 2 gal of gasoline! lol
sounds stupid to me
the wax that is
Err, I am not sure what you call paraffin in the US.
a parrafinic is a light oil like white gas aka kerosene
andypugh: parafin wax
It is a lot closer to gasoline than wax.
Kerosene, that's the one.
It is fine until you get a mist and a spark at the same time.
Yeah, letss toss somethng with a 3000F deg arc into something thats a fuel for candles.
We had tried non flammable liquids, they all sucked.
Jymmm: No, forget the wax, this was a few gallons of what you would call Kerosene.
edm oils are hyrdrocarbons, the spark cracks the oil into carbon and (tada) hydrogen
andypugh: same diff to me.
Lamp oil? White gas?
tom3p: Ok, I believe you. still doesn't sound right to me
the black is from the cracked carbon ( not the graphite electrode, thats negligible )
I'd stay away from white gas for emd work ;)
The wire EDM at the place I worked at after that used water as the electrolite. That seemed more sensible.
I think I'll just stick with explosives/pyrotechnics instead, sounds MUCH safer.
de-ioniozed water is suited to the light weight power used in wire edm
tom3p: dont drink the water =)
wire doesn't need as much wash as a sinker either.
sabotage wedm... drop a mcdonalds salt packet into the tank
Does it make that much difference?
clytle lots more flush thru the work gap, tons more the litres per minute are huge compared top sink edm
the salt ions whack the conductivity
andypugh: salt water is conductive
you want one specific conductivity thru the whole cut, and to keep the kerf small, you want the conductivity smallish and very very constant
Yes, I know, but I was questioning whether a salt packet in that quantity of water makes enough difference. It isn't like salt water is _very_ conductive.
yes 1 salt packet will change it a few siemens
change sevral hundred litres instantly
a little paint yet.. but mounted. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/newelecbox.JPG
(iodized american salt)
andypugh: Actually, it is.
skunkworks: is that bondo?
[01:56:52] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/newelecin.JPG
yes - actually
skunkworks: nice, clean & very workable
skunkworks: rusted thru?
loads of i/o, is it several mesa i/o (>2) ?
skunkworks, happy wiring.
skunkworks: I think you should layout the panduit before mounting anything
Is that the huge mill with the rings that identify the tools?
Are you sticking with that systems, or updating it?
that'll be both slots, 2 5i20's i spose, this emc stuff is realy cool, that huge beast controlled by that (plus amps somewhere)
skunkworks: also, change the CPU fan asap!
skunkworks: Those are known to go out at the worse possible time
skunkworks: what kind of motor controllers are those?
skunkworks: that brand that is
TD-Linux: the boards?
TD-Linux: those are relays
I don't have any of the servo drives mounted yet.
all that is there is the optp22 boards and motherboard.
skunkworks: and a crappy cpu fan
Jymmm: yes - I have had them fail also
skunkworks: go strip out an old computer of soemthing =)
skunkworks: are you going to use pandit or like wire tie clamps?
some sort of wire channel.
what ever we have around :)
my image search came up with nothing conclusive
A cross between Conduit and Pan-Pipes?
[02:09:10] <DaViruz> http://www.a-aelectric.com/images/panduit_wiring_duct.gif
seems like a likely candidate
this is panduit http://media.digikey.com/photos/Panduit%20Corp%20Photos/H4X4LG6.jpg
DaViruz: google wireway
panduit is one brand
yeah i figured as much
never heard it refered to called panduit, but then again i'm from far away
this typing thing clearly isn't going my way, i'll try the sleeping thing instead
Jymmm: we have that stuff in our machines.
makes things nice and neet
Panduit makes wiring purrrty http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/2362457955_f8219b6ce0_b.jpg
and keeps crud off of it
all blue wires?
makes troubleshooting in the middle difficult
Should use all-pink.
it replaces wire lacing http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/
and is like sweeping dirt under the carpet :P
if a few wires get snagged how to tell which one is what?
elmo40: If you need to "troubleshoot" in the middle, you have bigger problems.
number every wire end, blue dc, red ac.... pick a style and use it consitantly
not really. on a professional machine they get abused in every shape and form. just common use would mess up things. poor design will dictate that, though.
[02:15:14] <andypugh> http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5438923441932523602
(I laced my loom)
tom3p: sure, keep similar 'types' the same wire. all lead #2 on the servo, yellow w/black... that makes sense.
tom3p: One tome, I saw THE BEST lacing wiring ever! You could trace a single wire from one end of the cabinet all the way to the other. Was self supported, even at bends. Have never seen aynthing like it since.
andypugh: cool, i use to have to braid everything
andypugh: does the mill move along the lathe bed?
Jymmm: yah, keeping them parralel around turns is just old school neat-freak, but looks great
No. It is just bolted to the back of the bed.
tom3p: Parallel even over 8t distance
so cant use it as a 4th... oh well
tom3p: 8 ft
tom3p: They didn't even use hose clamps on the water cooled amps
tom3p: never ever leaked
yeh whole cabinet, no wire twists, wire went from loom to termination in a nice little arc , extermely anal but beautiful
tom3p: If I ever hit LA, I want to see if they'll let me take some photos if it's still there.
tom3p: 7G vibration tester sitting on 110lb magnesium table that floated on a granite bed of oil
tom3p: The electric-coil was 220 3ph alone.
tom3p: and 3ft tall
tom3p: The ENTIRE plant knew when I was testing =)
7G solenoid slam !
tom3p: No, more like a giant electro-magnetic speaker coil, and the "cone" was the the magnesium table
tom3p: the 3 cabinets were the amp
ah, cool, what them engineer folks will do
three full height cabinets, that were water cooled with the tower on the roof
seen that 'bloom' fuel cell?
tom3p: I only got a lil scared when the roof leaked
...into the floor channels where the 440 400A 3ph was fed in from
right below the magnesium table, then the cesium gas on top of that =)
7G? I laugh at your paltry 7G! My tester was 150G (but then it was just a flywheel, a pneumatic clutch and a cam)
scary i had 440 go off once in my hands, knocked me out, after i catapulted thru the foreman , knocking him out. I woke up and raced to the john, kicked the toilet tank lid off and stuck my arms in. bastids wouldn't take me to the clinic, i had to walk.
150G's? can you use it and not rip a good chink or the world off?
Jymmm: who uses hose clamps anymore? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_thread
the best way to do it
tom3p: That's all I tested at. I think it was capable of a LOT more. Hell I shook the entire plant!
The Mk1 version left the support bearing housings behind by about half an inch after the first test. (ie it bent the aluminium carriage)
tom3p: that bloom fuel cell is intereting, to say the least.
but still too expensive
and, it produces co2 (are we supposed to be against that production? i get conflicting arguments...)
AN fitting... Army-Navy
if it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me ;)
i think... monoxide is the bad thing , dioxide is what plants 'breath'
but only during the day
at night they produce it.
that AN connector is for metal tubes, people still use hose clamps for... hose
"used to connect flexible hoses and rigid metal tubing"
it is for the connection of hose to solid
flare fitting for flexible tube? well news to me
news? what rock have you lived under?
dates back to World War Two
flex & flared? news to me still
but it isnt a 'flare fitting' per say...
oh, now i understand
clear as mud?
the AN uses a different taper.
then a flare
flares are for the common folk ;) 45deg
like your car brake lines
anyways... i am trying to make a DXF outline of the Steelers logo. Getting stuck on the tapered diamond shape. Using HeeksCNC.
it isnt all that user friendly
importing dxf or drawing it right in HeeksCAD?
i tried that too
just seemed to put it in the 'background'
as if you use it for a template to draw over
i been studying it too, its not complete yet, but will be very powerful
still cant make any gcode. always get an error with some /tmp.tap file, or whatever
been looking into freeCAD.
seems ok, so far.
my approach ( not very succesful) has been to try very simple single things, until i understand it. last i tried to duplicate a vid of skecth in HeeksCAD, i didnt succeed but suspect the W$ version is a bit better than the Linux version, thus the difference. i dont worry, am confident it will improve.
the ms version isnt
especially the cnc part of it.
hmm, well the vid was geo0005 (?) and he got different menu than i did , so i guessed his success was due to a different build.
lost power earlier, that was weird
difficult controlling electrons, isnt it
damn pesky things
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
wonder what happened
i think i lost power maybe 2 times in the 2 years i've been here
once was due to a bad storm
but today, it couldnt have been any nicer out
ries_ is now known as ries
aa-danimal-shop: no UPS? ;)
anyone try free-cad.sf.net ?
i cant stand this metric stuff while drawing
i am used to metric in everything else... just not drawing
and there is no way to alter it! all the boxes are greyed out.
what does everyone use for CAD?
at work we have everything... solid works, autocad, catia...
and then the cam packages. mastercam and gibbscam.
but at home i have not installed those 'pro' apps and only tried free ones. nothing compares :P
EbiDK_ is now known as EbiDK
I'm forced to use metric by blender, when all dimensions are given as a decimal number
but that's cool, because it's standard practice in UK now. kids from school don't think in inches anymore
come to think of it, my schooling in the 70s was 100% metric, but everything outside school was feet & inches
MattyMatt: you can work in.. decimal inchs!
digital vernier says use either
grandads micrometer had a table of 1/256" to thous engraved on it :)
decimal inches loses the flavour of imperial. money was better with 12 pence to the shilling too
I bet it was the banks who forced that change through in 71, so they could use US software
we had a currency for everyone. pence for kids, shillings for housewives, pounds for business
guineas for the flagrantly wealthy
I need sovereigns
I know someone with a goldmine in Finland
it's just a gravel bed in a stream, but it could have been fun to set up a workcamp there, just to build team spirit for programming
all our teams are pan-atlantic tho. teleworking is the only way
we need a dosshouse on each continent, with permanent video links to the conference rooms
I think they're called universities :)
archivist, was it you who showed me 4.2A motors on sale for 28 quid? I can't find the link now
my speed trial suggests I need to spend on wider pitch leadscrews first
[09:27:09] <archivist> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors/Stepper-Motors
oh right, I thought I'd checked them :)
I got my motor connectors from them, so it's easy to switch to 10mm shafts
my Z motor tore itself loose, because of my wonky brass shaft connector. I'll use hose&clamps until I can justify 15 quid per pair of Oldham couplings
I got one pair, to protect my posh ballscrew unit, and to have one axis at least that moves enough to test the software :)
attaching M8 to one of those is tricky though, unless I get an 8mm one and clamp it around the thread. If I tapped one out by hand I'm throwing away all the accuracy I'm paying for
hose & clamps, plenty for now
me scans ebay for random marchantdice bargains
there was a complete 4" Z went for around 50 quid in December. I shoulda woulda coulda
gah i would need some cad drawings of the leadscrew mounts for the X1 seig mill, anyone have? :)
[10:02:55] <MrSunshine> http://www.hamish.dds.nl/posts/handle-support-x1.gif
those blocks i would like a cad drawing of
the obvious person to ask is Hamish
hehe true =)
but that takes more time then if someone has something laying arou dhere :P
I have cad of my machine, but it ain't a Sieg
I need to update that model to reflect reality
gonna redo the damn things in alu insted, and make leadscrew supports on both sides of the table
so i wont have like 30cm of wobbly leadscrew sticking out =)
does your nut float radially?
MattyMatt, what does that mean? :)
the nut is stuck to the table but when its the furthest in against the leadscrew mount all of the rest of the screw is hainging in the air
makes for alot of vibrations when it comes up to speed
if the leadscrew isn't perfectly straight, it will jam if the leadscrew is held at both ends
tested it in a lathe and its quite straight =)
so why does it vibrate, if it's so perfectly balanced ;)
MattyMatt, cause i cant get the damn motor aligned perfectly to the damn leadscrew :/
but heard other people has had problems with vibrations on these mills
Oldham Couplings. the answer to my prayers, although they are only good to 4Nm
i have couplings that is supposed to take 0.2mm errors but it still throws everything around like hell, but when i put it up in a lathe it all is straight down to under the hundreds
im starting to think toothed belt drive insted =)
machine the stepper mount and the leadscrew bearing at the same setting
Shaft alignment is a fickle mistress
there's a rack drive Z on fleabay. nice looking but it's 250q used
330mm travel. could be more than a Z
I wouldn't use belt drive on a metalworking machine, personally. it seem to work great for wood, with big enough motors
MattyMatt, hmm, why ?
vibration in the taut belt could allow high freq chatter
that's just my instinct tho. I haven't used heavy duty belts
the low noise & high speed are attractive
metal chips would destroy a belt rather quickly, that's another reason not to
a leadscrew is self-cleaning, relatively
make a linear stepper :) it looks like all you need for that is a mill
MattyMatt, well im going to have the leadscrew then toothed belt from the motor to the leadscrew
to get rid of the tryin to align to axels perfectly against eacother =)
so i can put a box over the belt without a problem to protect it =)
a short belt won't chatter so much
and the backlash won't be worse than any other flxible coupling
and i get rid of the stupid problem of aligning axises
just have to have a belt taughter or whatever its called
ahh yes =)
although with a short belt that usually means the motor is mounted in slots
how do you mean? :)
like a car alternator
yeah on a thingie that just offsets the motor
it seems like it just adds problems tho, as you'll need bearings/straight holes for the pulleys
maybe a rubber bearing at the far end of the leadscrew would damp the vibrations
MattyMatt, well im still stuck with the problem to align the damn motor to the shaft so that no bending ec occures
a tap washer running in a steel hole or groove, with lots of vaseline
if you are using flexible motor couplings, then the problem sounds like it's in the leadscrew bearing
is that in line with the slide?
it all sounds way too precise for my experience. I haven't even got a dial gauge :)
well, the leadscrew bearing needss to be changed to a roller one, atm its two axial bearings to set the screw in place then a glide bearing to hold it up and down
MrSunshine: add 3 or 4 set screws to tweak the motor alignment untill it doesnt bind :)
would go alot smoother if i bore dup the glide thingie and put a needle bearing there =)
BlackMoon, have for up and down atm
4 of them so i can tillt it etc however i want
its sideways i have nothing on
you don't need sideways alignment
with a rigid coupler it will align itself
its the angular alignment that will get screwed up by your mounting flange
assumeing your bolting it from the face of the motor
(gets screwed up when you tighten the mounting bolts that is)
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:44:54] <BlackMoon> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=533240&postcount=10
geartrains does have a cultural bias towards those of us from heavy industrial countries
..who had meccano & lego as kids :)
I had a camp axe and a rusty saw and had to make my own Lincoln Logs
i used my boy scout knife to make a TeePee
lego was for the cool kids, while meccano was for the rich kids.
[16:02:48] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/newelecbox1.JPG
that is a magnetic level holding the ribbon cable. ;)
re-crimping ends on the 50 pin ribbon cable seem to work wonderfully
skunkworks: did you just saw away the parts of the case you didn't want? That's what I did for jr too.
computer case? yes
how long until we all get to come see it move?
few weeks I hope. (I only get there once or twice a week)
cradek: did you see this one? http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/newelecbox.JPG
we made a section of the box deeper for the servo drives.
dad plugged all the original holes in the boxes so we have a blank slate.
is this the machine with the lifting/unlocking rotary axis?
and a random tool changer - neato - you get to use all the new features
I suppose almost built like a turret. (it indexes in 5 degree increments)
:) yes - Thought it was time.
wow, that's quite a box
* a few weeks before it is moving.. You don't have to come at that point.. ;))
top will be logic/ssr and such. bottom will be motor start relays, vfd and such.
just have to make all the bits work togather.
we looked into the spindle transmission - looks like we can shoe horn an encoder in there.
it will be belt driven.
* timing belt.
neat - past all the gears?
yes - it will actually be mounted near where the collet cylinder pushes'
bbl - the sun is shining!
skunkworks: you have an overall pic?
i see it now. just went up one directory
this is what it looked like from the factory... http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
that's quite a stretch between the keyboard and the monitor :)
does anyone have code for a trivial PCB I could have?
[17:03:29] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1654012034.html
JT-Hardinge: that is probably temporary. ;)
I had to see if it booted after being transfered..;.
I know what you mean, mine is sitting on a saw horse with a piece of plywood laying on top
skunkworks: why is there an oiler in the cabinet?
tapping holes for mounting things.
skunkworks: squeeky cpu?
That plate is tough. already broke 2 taps. (got them to come out though.)
the one thing that sucks is that goal3 motherboard doesn't seem to have a boot on power option.
yah - doable.
or a button..
I thought you wanted it to boot when machine gets power?
yes.. might still want a button though.. just thinking out loud.
*MAYBE* short the power_on button on the mobo
might work.. I have had computers just restart every 10 seconds though.
That's why I said maybe =)
Jymmm: dad welded plugs in all the holes so the box is back to virgin. (what is why there is bondo)
The mobo's I have give a option to restore to previous state or power on or power off state when power is loss.
skunkworks: ah ok
pop the gray(?) wire out of the PSU harness, and short it to ground (any of the black wires)
SWPadnos: Uh, no. it's GRN - PWR_GOOD
no, that's not it
SWPadnos: duh - that would power the supply up - wouldn't it..
SWPadnos: Yes, it is.
yes, it would :)
no, it's not
PWR_GOOD comes on after the PSU has stabilized (in theory)
ok, it is the green wire, but it's called "power on" :)
grey is power good ;)
SWPadnos: No, PWR_GOOD is a signal FROM the mobo to the PS
gray (the wrong color I chose) is the signal from the PSU to the MB that says that the power supply is up and running
green (the right color you chose) is power on, which is a command from the MB to the PSU to power up
according to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX
ok, time for me to run. see you :)
Power on to ground is what you want
power good is asserted BY the psu after power has stablised, though many psus just connect it right to +5v
On that note, shorting power good to power on should produce a power on signal that stops once the psu is on. :P
* pfred1 breezes in on a katabolic wind ...
I think i found a way to beat free Eagle's board size limitation here
its called download the crack
BlackMoon well that'd be stealing and I don't steal
borrow a workaround from teh internetz then? :P
what I do is print each circuit section to a file and Eagle spits out PDF then open each PDF in ghostview save as a PS then open each PS in Gimp combine and print to a PDF file again
viola now board size doesn't matter and they all are together in one big board!
... Sure, till you gotta export some g-code
and talk about *work*around
BlackMoon it converts PDFs to DXFs
and what good are dxfs?
you can cam with them
I'd love to use an FOSS circuit board program and I even tried two but neither of them really works for me
but still a crack is better =)
I may even try to edit PDF converted to DXFs but i am more comfortable using Gimp than any DXF software I've tried
frallzor I have 0 illegal software packages and I intend to keep it that way who knows what you get with those cracks
if you arent a complete idiot its pretty easy to see what you get =)
although i suppose warezis all that keeps Microsoft afloat
really until this motor driver board the Eagle size limit was never a big problem for me
traces can be run outside of the board limits... :)
skunkworks I can't even jamp all of the parts into the alloted area I don't think
yup this stuff works
What's the name of the thing you attach to the inside of your vise's jaws?
Sorta, but there's another name for it
Jymmm I know what you mean I've made them
I think it begins with a 'B'
I've made some nice copper ones
Well, what's the name of them damnit! lol
I donno i just know they're sitting in the drawer under my mill
its nice to make them out of aluminum sometimes too
Jymmm hey know what i usually use? I rip the palm out of an old leather glove
and just sorta slap that onto the jaw
sides of old boots works OK too as do old boot tongues
skunkworks: your machine only does 5deg indexes?
skunkworks no tickles for you!
I'm starting to come around to the idea of a moving gantry machine with twin X leads to drive the gantry
I can't come up with a good moving table design that doesn't take up too much space
Jymmm you ever find the word you were looking for?
I always thought they were called jaw protectors myself
JT-Dev works for me :)
my whole dastardly motor driver in one file: http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6325/stitched.png
* JT-Hardinge wonders what TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION = 0 0 0 will do if you have a lathe with no Y axis
JT-Hardinge how one dimensional of you!
* pfred1 tries to catch up one some robot pr0n ....
* JT-Hardinge sees that TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION = 0 0 0 refers to machine origins as suspected
JT-Hardinge sounds suspiciously like an old Star Trek plot line to me
jmkasunich, you about the keyboard this afternoon?
JT-Hardinge, you set the middle number to zero
you need all 3 digits
wtf, why is my name administrator?
Administrator_ is now known as aa-danimal-shop
JT-Hardinge, you set the middle number to zero
all 3 digits must be present
aa-danimal-shop: you mean TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION is always X,Y,Z
pfred1: I was thinking 'anvil', like on pruning shears.
even if Y is missing for a lathe, the number needs to be present in the config
i figured that out when i set up my lathe
jmkasunich, 2 questions in case you come online... re shoptask Z conversion... did you keep spring return?, did you reuse z stop bracket or make a new spindle bearing seal cap/drive arm?
hmm my x axis isnt giving me following errors anymore (or at least at this moment) with the new pc
oh well... i guess i'll still change the belts anyways
they're older than me
hmm why would the Z-assembly for 250mm travel on the mechmate require a 350mm stroke gasspring?
frallzor extra piston to keep it aligned?
keep what aligned?
there is also a 350mm assembly for 350mm travel, seems logical if the 350mm stroke works for that, 250mm stroke will work for 250mm travel...
what about rate for 350mm travel then
its 350 for 350 too =)
I guess they only want to source one part
its just a drawing, where many other things are different on different lenghts and stuff, this seems silly
Ill just get a 250mm stroke one
hows it going?
good just figuring out a few things like where I want home to be etc.
are you using TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION = 0 0 0 on your lathe
JT-Hardinge Home is where you hang your hat
JT-Hardinge, you need a value for y
so it'd be TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION = 3 0 7 if 3 was your value for x and 7 was your value for z
My home at Newport Pagnell services on the M1 then. I left my hat in the cafe
* pfred1 hands aa-danimal-shop a copy of Flatland ... http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland/
i have my home position all the way over in X+ and Z+
my table moves \o/ I have 3 axes
that's where I have mine at ... home offset is 0 for both axis
MattyMatt i have lots of axes quite a few hatchets for that matter too!
hmm, I'm getting 0.0500 error during a rapid move
axises then. the OED claims that's more correct now
gotta tune it some more
I could use a new bar on my chainsaw
hmm, X max vel was set double of norm...
I don't pay much attention to the OED since I learned Tolkein wrote most of the Ws
that's better 0.001 at rapid speed
How, though the Sphere shewed me other mysteries of Spaceland, I still desired more; and what came of it
forget the chainsaw, teach a robot to swing an axe
aa-danimal-shop: what procedure do you use to set up your turret with the tool table?
JT-Hardinge, just zoffset and xoffset
i use mastercam for programing, so i just need to know where the theorietical sharp corner of the tool is
weird... i'm not getting ferrors now
all i did was swap out the pc and do the updates
did you get your belts changed?
What fun... My trial copy of Alibre design reverted to the limited "Express" mode, so I bought the upgrade version online. That license is somehow attached to an account I created several years ago and had forgotten about, whereas the active installation is linked to last months account. I can see this being rather tricky to sort out.
andypugh nothng like paying for a little trouble is there?
Of course, as a cheapskate I bought the version with no support, so there is every chance that they won't even talk to me.
andypugh no, you want to talk to billing, billing will always talk to customers
I think that it is all the same chap in the UK...
andypugh but if you bring it up as a billing matter they may technically correct it just to be rid of you :)
Worth a try. I might try deleting cookies too, to see if I can log in as the new old me, rather than the old new me.
billing customer support and technical support are all subtle shades of difference that must be manipulated carefully if ones goals are to be achieced
which is to say it is better to play the fool and let them figure it all out it is their mess after all
I think part of the blame lies with me, I let autocomplete fill out the order form.
it is a shame there are no FOSS alternatives to commercial offerings in the CAM market
I look at it another way. I find it frankly amazing that there is a FOSS CNC machine controller.
So considering how much work there is in a CAM package, I am not surprised.
well apparently mach is much more popular why I don't know
doesn't Windows require a license by itself?
I mean when you get EMC you get thrown a copy of linux gratis
Yes. Or so I understand.
and EMC makes a fair number of Linux converts it seems
I think that people fail to realise at the time that the CNC controller will almost always end up being a dedicated machine, so it doesn't matter if it won't run your games.
I chalk Linux avoidance up to the fear of the unknown mostly
once most people see Linux thery're like yeah i can do this
then after they use it for a while they come to the realization that linux just works
Quite probably. It was no big deal for me, I am a 30-year MacOS user so had to use an unfamiliar OS with either choice.
I do remember when game developers tried to get on the linux platorm and what a disaster that was
have macs been around for that long I didn't really notice them popping up too much until around 1981 or so
well those weren't even Macs then they were ][es
I can't do sums.
I meant 25 years.
about a half a dozen of the richer kids I went to school with had them by then
But probably only 20 years of actually owning them myself.
* pfred1 went to school in a very affluent community
was ranked 7th per capita in the country then
it wasn't so much that your familry were millionares but how many millions
Yeah, sounds like it. When I was at university the whole department had 3 computers (BBC micros) to share for personal stuff (there were a number of mainframes that students were allowed nowhere near)
one of the brats got a maseritti for his 17th birthday
I have never figured out how anyone gets quite that wealthy.
though his dad did end up doing a 2 1/2 year stretch for tax evasion several years later
Ah, perhaps that is the way?
yeah you don't comy by it completely honestly
Hurrah! I have Alibre working the way I paid for now.
it is good to get what you paid for
I did a rotten thing earlier to avoid a commercial license
andypugh check it out made with the freeware Eagle: http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6325/stitched.png
andypugh turns out you can print to PDF open with ghostview export to PS then import to Gimp manipulate and re-export to PDF
and circumvent their 3x5 board size limitaiton in the process
Though I guess the autorouting capabilities of The Gimp are less well developed?
andypugh yeah i still need to hack it up some more I'm goingto point to point wire this anyways so I just need the print out as a drill guide
I tried to get geda and kicad to work neither worked for me
you haven't got any decoupling caps by the logic chips. are they still modern practice?
Point-to-point is somewhat easier with solder-through lacquered wire and a dispenser, if you can get one.
andypugh I just use old discarded bell wire
You might get some ideas from http://freespace.virgin.net/john.hardaker/Musatek/vero.html
andypugh here's what the last one turned out looking like: http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6572/stepproto1b.jpg
HMMM, I have some minus error on acceleration and plus error on deceleration
100nf across the 5V line, right by the chips. one per 10 chips minimum iirc
that was the days when the whole computer was TTL
MattyMatt there are less than 10 chips on the board and plenty of capacitance to go around
MattyMatt and as built works just fine
it might be a tiny bit more noise immune with them, but I dunno how much so, if measurable
all the caps in the world won't save this circuit from noise but two optos do
hmmm, the X max velocity caps the Z which can do double
the noise is generated by other gates switching
JT-Hardinge, it doesnt cap it
JT-Hardinge: Sounds like a relativistic error to me.
MattyMatt not when you're PWMing an inductor it doesn't
it says the slower max velocity on the screen, but it doesnt actually cap it
JT-Hardinge, i have a similar issue with the error
andypugh, what is that?
G0 on X does 180 ipm and on Z does 180ipm and it should do 360ipm
aa-danimal-shop: Err, sorry, that was facetiousness.
aa-danimal-shop: really the screen lies to us?
JT-Hardinge, yes, it lies
try changing the x max velocity to like .1 and see what the z does.
the screen will cap at .1 and the z will still do whatever it's set at
that's confusing :/
i tested it
where's Ron Popiel when you need him anyways?
I take your word for it then :)
JT-Hardinge, never do that! lol
i could be doing somethnig wrong, but that's how my mill is. I have x set slower than y and y is set slower than z
JT-Hardinge, how come z can go that much faster?
same motor, amp, and gear reduction?
aa-danimal-shop same lead?
I'm not sure but Robh said it does
totally different pid settings too
are your scales the same for x and z?
maybe z has a bigger motor
mine are both 200ipm max
i really dont get it... why the hell am i not getting ferrors anymore?
the old computer must have had somethnig to do with it
but why it was only for x+ and nothing else is beyond me
ahh, don't complain if you magically fixed it
JT-Hardinge, ehh, i'd rather know what's wrong with it. I need this machine to put food on my table, i cant afford to have it die in the middle of a run
on that note, chilli is done, time to eat :)
a unimate arm would be more effective at putting food on the table
let me know if you figure out why you're getting that pattern of ferror. i'm getting a similar one, although it's minimal now
aa-danimal-shop: I know the feeling
MattyMatt, a hot blonde would be more effective
mounted on top of the fridge would be convenient
..the blonde, that is :)
i wont say where she'd be conveniently mounted
beat me to it