#emc | Logs for 2010-03-21

[00:00:37] <MattyMatt> it's the hovering and autolanding that needs practice, although Carmack seems to have solved that
[00:00:40] <WalterN_> to fly you just need to call up the FAA and tell them where when and how high basically
[00:01:03] <MattyMatt> robot AI is next on the agenda for conquering the solar system
[00:01:13] <pfred1> up until 2 years ago they held pumpkin chunkin about 2 blocks from me
[00:01:28] <pfred1> now they hold it on the other side of town
[00:02:10] <pfred1> http://www.punkinchunkin.com/
[00:02:34] <pfred1> I saw a worlds record in the trebuchet class set last year
[00:02:48] <pfred1> guy launched over 4000 feet
[00:03:47] <pfred1> talk about a bunch of drunken hicks!
[00:04:21] <WalterN_> heh
[00:06:12] <pfred1> my rowdy neighbors: http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1189/pict0594.jpg
[00:07:18] <pfred1> I pass chunkenology around the corner from me all the time
[00:07:25] <MattyMatt> I'm gonna put a tribe of pumpkin chuckers in my RTS
[00:07:38] <pfred1> he lives on Rt 5
[00:07:40] <BlackMoon> you americans and your guns -_-;
[00:08:06] <pfred1> BlackMoon oddly he goes for a small gun as far as the pneumatic guns go
[00:08:20] <pfred1> but he still posts respectable distances
[00:08:43] <pfred1> BlackMoon I mean come on they are awesome to see shoot
[00:09:50] <WalterN_> BlackMoon: guns are teh awesome
[00:10:12] <pfred1> WalterN_ with 10 inch diameter barrels they sure are
[00:10:19] <WalterN_> only one thing is more awesome than guns
[00:10:27] <WalterN_> rockets :)
[00:10:29] <Jymmm> 50cal shot 100yard down rnge at a metal plate. Turn up the volume... http://v5.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=17vbid
[00:10:34] <Jymmm> 1000 yards
[00:10:53] <MattyMatt> nukes are probably quite awesome
[00:11:05] <pfred1> Jymmm we could hit that with a pumpkin catapult!
[00:11:23] <Jymmm> pfred1: watch the video
[00:11:33] <WalterN_> I want an AA12
[00:11:38] <BlackMoon> lol closetofail
[00:11:43] <WalterN_> full auto 12gauge shotgun :D
[00:12:08] <TD-Linux> oh, you can have the GUI and controller on separate machines?
[00:12:09] <pfred1> WalterN_ I was watching mail Call the other day and lee had the first anti-tank gun on it it was big
[00:12:49] <pfred1> TD-Linux Linux is pretty much designed from the ground up to network
[00:12:55] <TD-Linux> yes
[00:13:12] <TD-Linux> so have most unixen
[00:13:20] <pfred1> TD-Linux technically when you run X you run it on your loopback network
[00:13:23] <TD-Linux> so has windows NT
[00:13:32] <TD-Linux> oh
[00:13:36] <TD-Linux> so the GUI can't really be separated
[00:14:19] <TD-Linux> pfred1: except that X locally also uses shared memory etc
[00:14:33] <TD-Linux> though, that's beside the point
[00:14:37] <pfred1> well sure all the resources come from the local machine
[00:14:41] <TD-Linux> sounded like GUI and emc communicated via sockets... I guess they don't
[00:15:48] <pfred1> oh cool I didn't know i had a picture ofthe back of my guest house
[00:16:20] <TD-Linux> hey idea, what about a GPIO driver?
[00:16:24] <TD-Linux> does linux run on a stellaris I wonder
[00:16:59] <pfred1> TD-Linux the question isn't so much does Linux here but does EMC2
[00:17:10] <MattyMatt> linux runs on just about anything. you can strip the kernel of PC specific stuff
[00:17:16] <pfred1> TD-Linux which are kernel extensions that are probably X86 centric
[00:17:42] <pfred1> MattyMatt thing is EMC hacks the kernel to do what it does
[00:17:54] <TD-Linux> MattyMatt: I'm well aware of how the linux kernel works
[00:18:08] <TD-Linux> pfred1: what kernel extensions would it need?
[00:18:15] <pfred1> TD-Linux RTAI
[00:18:25] <TD-Linux> * TD-Linux looks it up
[00:18:42] <pfred1> TD-Linux EMC is more than userspace
[00:18:44] <MattyMatt> that's been done for ARM, I'm sure
[00:19:00] <TD-Linux> pfred1: that would make sense, it would require kernel drivers for software stepping etc
[00:19:15] <TD-Linux> is RTAI same as kernel built with realtime patches?
[00:19:19] <pfred1> TD-Linux EMC needs it for real time preempted control
[00:19:28] <TD-Linux> RTAI supports ARM, good
[00:19:35] <TD-Linux> it would run on a stellaris
[00:20:08] <Jymmm> a soon as you port the ASM code
[00:20:29] <TD-Linux> Jymmm: what is the ASM code for?
[00:20:35] <TD-Linux> hardware drivers?
[00:20:49] <TD-Linux> I would have to write my own anyway to use GPIOs
[00:20:50] <Jymmm> good lock yourself
[00:20:54] <Jymmm> look
[00:21:06] <pfred1> Jymmm when you come i have a place to put you up: http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4757/23320860.jpg
[00:21:27] <TD-Linux> Jymmm: I'll be sure to show you when I finish :)
[00:21:29] <MattyMatt> I prefer writing asm to anything. I realised a while back that all my finished projects were 100% asm
[00:21:54] <Jymmm> TD-Linux: no thanks
[00:21:58] <TD-Linux> ... I should probably get my laser working first :P
[00:21:59] <pfred1> the only thing I was ever able to write was asm
[00:22:09] <MattyMatt> you know when you're finished, when you write asm :)
[00:22:22] <TD-Linux> for which architecture?
[00:22:39] <MattyMatt> "here's a loop, it works, I've shaved off 3 cycles, it's done"
[00:23:02] <MattyMatt> z80, m68k & 386
[00:23:12] <TD-Linux> I hate z80
[00:23:21] <TD-Linux> it's easy to learn, but starts to get really annoying
[00:23:34] <pfred1> TD-Linux all of my Z-80 chips don't like you very much either
[00:23:39] <TD-Linux> only thing worse is 6502
[00:23:40] <andypugh> Z80 is lovely, it's simple enough that you can learn the hex and not bother with an assembler :-)
[00:24:15] <MattyMatt> 210000 110010 010010 EDB0 C9
[00:24:29] <MattyMatt> :)
[00:24:31] <TD-Linux> andypugh: true, I guess it isn't so bad now that I think out of it
[00:24:41] <TD-Linux> but I've tried to write really complicated things in it
[00:24:44] <pfred1> TD-Linux easy to learn and starts to get really annoying can describe any number of things
[00:24:51] <TD-Linux> such as a 3D transform and rasteriser
[00:25:08] <TD-Linux> I have a 6502 half-implemented in hardware
[00:25:11] <MattyMatt> I won Best Arcade Game at the first Golden Joysticks
[00:25:14] <andypugh> MattyMatt: I said you could, not that I did, or still remember it.
[00:25:15] <Jymmm> pfred1: why would I go to some hillbilly hideaway? I've seen Deliverance. =)
[00:25:32] <TD-Linux> the 6502 instrution set makes sense up to a point
[00:25:55] <TD-Linux> but then they ran out of bits and started smashing everything in random places
[00:26:13] <MattyMatt> I went off z80 when I realised using the cisc instructions were slower than unrolled loops etc
[00:26:20] <TD-Linux> if you look at 6502 schematics, they have a massive grid of mosfets to decode :P
[00:26:48] <TD-Linux> MattyMatt: yeah it's funny, IIRC ldir was slower than a loop of 8 ld's
[00:27:11] <MattyMatt> and stack abuse is 2x faster again
[00:27:28] <TD-Linux> so many fun tricks with shadow registers :D
[00:27:58] <TD-Linux> z80 became un-fun when I realized how I could optimize everything
[00:28:04] <andypugh> Looking through the EMC website I saw someone using DAC outputs on a 5I20. However I don't see any mention of DAC on the Hostmot2 manpages?
[00:28:32] <TD-Linux> and then I had to look at my code a day later
[00:28:35] <TD-Linux> and figure out how it worked again
[00:28:38] <Jymmm> andypugh: Why would you need to?
[00:28:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: (just asking)
[00:29:00] <pfred1> andypugh are you upgrading?
[00:29:09] <jackc_> jackc_ is now known as jackc
[00:29:35] <TD-Linux> anyway I'm using linear transport of CD-ROM drive as one axis of my pencil engraver :)
[00:29:35] <Jymmm> pfred1: What is that going to be? Too small for a house (I hope)
[00:29:47] <pfred1> Jymmm oh thats my junk leanto
[00:29:57] <andypugh> I was wondering if the 7i43 also had the option of DAC outputs. It just seems neater than PWM to voltage controllers for running servo drives etc.
[00:30:05] <Jymmm> pfred1: why the stick out?
[00:30:14] <pfred1> Jymmm i like junk but don't like to look at it from the house
[00:30:25] <TD-Linux> andypugh: analog is nastier than PWM
[00:30:37] <Jymmm> pfred1: Ok, but why not a square bldg?
[00:30:40] <pfred1> Jymmm initially I didn't build it that way but then decided i needed a little more room
[00:30:56] <TD-Linux> namely the voltage controllers usually need an ADC
[00:31:05] <TD-Linux> and then use that to control the motor using PWM
[00:31:12] <pfred1> Jymmm it does make it stronger it took the snow load this year
[00:31:15] <Jymmm> pfred1: You have all that land, and didn't bother to make a big ass storage?
[00:31:33] <TD-Linux> ADCs are expensive, noisy, and slow
[00:31:45] <TD-Linux> by noisy I mean electrically noisy
[00:31:47] <andypugh> Maybe, but my servo drivers and VFD both take analogue not PWM, and I suspect that a DAC would make a better job of it than my funny little circuit.
[00:31:51] <pfred1> Jymmm well I built it while I was moving down as I needed room to put stuff so there wasn't a whole lot of planning involved
[00:32:01] <TD-Linux> andypugh: that's probably true
[00:32:04] <pfred1> Jymmm the first half I put up in a weekend by myself
[00:32:07] <TD-Linux> you're just filtering PWM output?
[00:32:16] <Jymmm> pfred1: Ah. Hey, what's that car way in the back?
[00:32:16] <andypugh> Yes, and no.
[00:32:28] <pfred1> Jymmm its a 1966 P1800S
[00:32:41] <Jymmm> pfred1: asshle
[00:32:43] <Jymmm> asshole
[00:33:14] <Jymmm> pfred1: paint looks good, hows the body?
[00:33:17] <andypugh> I have a current source, an opto-isolator and an isolated DC-DC converter and a "leaky bucket" but it is much the same as filtering PWM.
[00:33:29] <TD-Linux> I think I might use another CD-ROM transport for the other axis too, it's more than I need but then I can engrave other things :)
[00:33:38] <pfred1> Jymmm the rockers are rotting out on it again I welded stainless steel under it a few years ago so thats OK
[00:33:52] <pfred1> Jymmm I think the guy who had it before me had it etched and they didn't kill it enough
[00:34:06] <Jymmm> pfred1: oh that bites
[00:34:10] <TD-Linux> anyone have experience using CD-ROM optics? I was going to make my own until I realized that the ones in CD-ROM drives have electrically controllable focus
[00:34:19] <Jymmm> pfred1: running? stock?
[00:34:30] <pfred1> Jymmm heh not stock no
[00:34:42] <Jymmm> pfred1: looks liek mags on the back
[00:34:48] <pfred1> Jymmm real mags
[00:34:55] <pfred1> illegal mags
[00:35:00] <Jymmm> pfred1: and modified suspentions
[00:35:01] <andypugh> But anyway, why I want to know is irrelevant. I am still wondering if Hostmot2 has any supported bitfiles with analogue IO.
[00:35:14] <pfred1> all bilstien and delrin bushings etc
[00:35:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: heh
[00:35:25] <pfred1> vari rate springs you name it
[00:35:30] <MattyMatt> TD-Linux: I saw an article on the PS3 BD drive. that looked fearsomely complicated
[00:35:46] <pfred1> Jymmm I always say the only thing the car doesn't have is a supercharger
[00:36:09] <pfred1> Jymmm and believe me the thought has crossed my mind
[00:36:10] <Jymmm> pfred1: so, that REALLY is your Hillbilly Hideaway, and you're run'in shine! I knew it!!!
[00:36:27] <TD-Linux> MattyMatt: it would have to have 3 lasers, I imagine so
[00:36:31] <pfred1> Jymmm actually the front trailer i have every reason to believe is a defunct meth lab
[00:36:41] <Jymmm> pfred1: lol
[00:36:53] <TD-Linux> the DVD ddrives I've seen have two lasers
[00:36:57] <Jymmm> pfred1: did you buy the land site unseen?
[00:36:58] <TD-Linux> with a beamsplitter
[00:37:01] <pfred1> Jymmm there is just too much circumstantial evidence for it not to be
[00:37:10] <TD-Linux> actually two beamsplitters
[00:37:10] <MattyMatt> most old CD used a voice coil
[00:37:11] <pfred1> Jymmm oh no I came down first
[00:37:29] <TD-Linux> MattyMatt: for focusing you mean? that's what this one has
[00:37:36] <aa-danimal-shop> so in the latency tests listed on the wiki, the computer i have that's listed says to disable the smi.
[00:37:37] <TD-Linux> seems to support two axis actually
[00:37:42] <MattyMatt> BD drive had several beam splitters, wave plates etc
[00:37:45] <pfred1> Jymmm this place took me over 4 years to find yo ushould have seen some of the stuff i passed on
[00:37:51] <Jymmm> pfred1: Where is this?
[00:38:04] <pfred1> Jymmm Lower Slower Delaware
[00:38:18] <TD-Linux> this particular drive has the laser driver and everything else in a single chip
[00:38:20] <aa-danimal-shop> dela where?
[00:38:25] <pfred1> Jymmm i come from new jersey so getting here was feasible to me
[00:38:27] <Jymmm> pfred1: You have water feature near by? creek stream pond?
[00:38:31] <MattyMatt> yeah the lens must focus, and also track the 88.2khz wiggle
[00:38:36] <pfred1> Jymmm the atlantic ocean
[00:38:46] <Jymmm> pfred1: no, something fresh water
[00:39:04] <pfred1> Jymmm well behind me is a hunting club and they dug their own stock pond
[00:39:26] <Jymmm> pfred1: the trees make it look like there's water near by. make that's it.
[00:39:30] <pfred1> Jymmm took them a couple of years but its done now far as I can tell i haven't heard them back therebeeping in a while now
[00:39:42] <pfred1> Jymmm well the place is sort of a swamp
[00:39:58] <Jymmm> pfred1: Ok, that's what i was gonna guess the first time
[00:40:01] <pfred1> Jymmm right now just about everyone around has some sort of a water feature on their property
[00:40:22] <Jymmm> pfred1: tall skiny trees
[00:40:26] <Jymmm> skinny
[00:40:58] <pfred1> Jymmm hows this for a water feature: http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6593/flood2x.jpg
[00:41:03] <MattyMatt> * MattyMatt invents flak jacket for alligators
[00:41:13] <Jymmm> pfred1: Hope ya didn't pay more than a goat and $2.35 USD
[00:41:26] <TD-Linux> bah, it seems this particular drive is only a reader
[00:41:28] <Jymmm> pfred1: your driveway?
[00:41:30] <TD-Linux> fortunately I have 8 more :)
[00:41:47] <pfred1> Jymmm yeah i got that fixed though
[00:42:00] <Jymmm> pfred1: suspension bridge? lol
[00:42:04] <pfred1> Jymmm turns out my culvert was blocked up
[00:42:20] <Jymmm> ?
[00:42:36] <Jymmm> pfred1: I dont know what that is I think
[00:42:38] <MattyMatt> does it affect the optics? are you going to use the laser to engrave?
[00:42:49] <Jymmm> pfred1: beaver dams?
[00:43:01] <pfred1> Jymmm no under the driveway in the front is a pipe
[00:43:07] <Jymmm> ah
[00:43:18] <pfred1> Jymmm we have ditches on the sides of the roads here for drainage
[00:43:31] <pfred1> Jymmm but mine wasn't draining except into my yard!
[00:43:34] <Jymmm> pfred1: how deep is the water in that pic?
[00:43:42] <pfred1> Jymmm oh about a foot in places
[00:43:58] <Jymmm> pfred1: lol, oh man. and you passed up OTHER places?!
[00:44:23] <pfred1> Jymmm yeah well i bought this place on the tail end of a 4 year drought its OK now it'll dry out the location is great
[00:44:47] <andypugh> Actually, the reason I started looking at DAC outputs was some debate on the mailing list. Someone there needs a tach signal for his drives, and somebody else pointed out that Hostmot2 produces a pretty good velocity signal from the encoder module. But I can't see how that helps unless there is a good DAC module too.
[00:44:52] <Jymmm> pfred1: Ah. Whats the elevation ?
[00:45:04] <pfred1> Jymmm 40 feet above sea level
[00:45:09] <Jymmm> pfred1: ouch
[00:45:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, ok.
[00:45:20] <Jymmm> andypugh: I was jsut curious
[00:45:26] <pfred1> Jymmm well I'm only about 6 miles from the coast
[00:45:37] <Jymmm> pfred1: still ouch
[00:46:07] <pfred1> Jymmm this year was an el nino and we've just been getting hammered by weather
[00:46:33] <Jymmm> pfred1: Well, at least it's not NO, where they are BELOW sea level.
[00:46:45] <pfred1> Jymmm least i don't have to worry about my well running driy for a couple of years now
[00:46:55] <Jymmm> pfred1: lol
[00:47:04] <aa-danimal-shop> crappers, this pc has pretty bad latency
[00:47:10] <pfred1> yeah if it didn't rain for 3 years I'd still be set
[00:47:24] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop did you do the SDI trick is it?
[00:47:37] <andypugh> SMI?
[00:47:41] <aa-danimal-shop> huh? smi?
[00:47:44] <pfred1> andypugh hey i was close
[00:47:49] <aa-danimal-shop> no not yet... looks complicated
[00:47:58] <aa-danimal-shop> but it looks like i might have to
[00:48:05] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop it isn't does it spike like every 65 seconds or so?
[00:48:10] <andypugh> SDI might be a bit overkill. Orbital lasers are good for latency though
[00:48:20] <TD-Linux> MattyMatt: I was going to use a laser
[00:48:22] <TD-Linux> to engrave
[00:48:31] <TD-Linux> this is a reader so I doubt the laser is as powerful as I wanted
[00:48:40] <TD-Linux> ... also, the linear transport is just a DC motor :P
[00:48:54] <andypugh> aa-danimal-shop: The SMI instructions are a single step for newer installs, if you look. No compiling, just editing a config file.
[00:49:20] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop yeah getting clued into it is the biggest part of the deal doing it is easy
[00:49:29] <archivist> andypugh, that odd mill you saw on ebay, I went to look at it
[00:49:48] <aa-danimal-shop> define "newer install"
[00:50:14] <andypugh> I decided against it, as it is basically a mechanical solution to a problem that CNC solves, and it looked rather limited on workbeice height.
[00:50:48] <aa-danimal-shop> i cant tell if it's because i'm playing a video on youtube plus running glxgears
[00:50:51] <pfred1> andypugh yeah but it has those nice kraut castings ....
[00:51:00] <aa-danimal-shop> or if it's the smi stuff
[00:51:01] <archivist> there is a couple of problems any way http://www.archivist.info/blog/
[00:51:10] <aa-danimal-shop> it's going up to about 29k
[00:51:13] <andypugh> It looks like a seriously well made machine
[00:51:28] <archivist> has backlash in the rotary
[00:51:39] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop that doesn't sound like SMI SMI is like 300K when it strikes
[00:51:44] <archivist> else felt good
[00:51:44] <aa-danimal-shop> ahh
[00:51:57] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop least it waso n my machine here
[00:52:23] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop fixed that PC w2as about 13K worst case
[00:52:59] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop but it could run about 7-8K pretty good i still sewt latency at 20K in stepperconf on it
[00:53:07] <pfred1> still set even
[00:53:49] <aa-danimal-shop> it jumped to 100k for the servo thread
[00:53:59] <aa-danimal-shop> but you tube is choking
[00:54:10] <aa-danimal-shop> i wonder if it's a video card issue
[00:54:23] <Valen> video display with pure CPU is hard
[00:54:25] <Valen> whats the CPU
[00:54:53] <aa-danimal-shop> i just pulled this hdd out of my old lathe pc and slapped it in this one. It's the ubuntu install from the other machine
[00:55:00] <aa-danimal-shop> it's a 2.8ghz p4
[00:55:13] <aa-danimal-shop> it's a dell optiplex gx270
[00:55:22] <pfred1> I've heard conflicting things about P4s
[00:55:37] <archivist> this box is P4
[00:55:41] <Valen> turn hyperthreading off in the bios
[00:55:47] <Valen> that could well help
[00:56:06] <andypugh> archivist: It looks a lot bigger than I thoought too.
[00:56:23] <aa-danimal-shop> well the computer i just removed from the machine was a dell optiplex gx270 as well, but it was a tower, where the new one is one of those little horizontal cases
[00:56:26] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop don't youtube on your CNC machine that might help too!
[00:56:47] <aa-danimal-shop> Valen, no hyperthreading on this machine
[00:57:07] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, i just did it for the latency test. my other machine didnt have an issue with it
[00:57:08] <archivist> andypugh, as a source of castings for a fresh build or mod its pretty good
[00:57:17] <Valen> P4's do have it, just saying make sure you turn it off in bios even if you arent using the SMP kernel
[00:57:24] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop heh i was just kidding j/k
[00:58:05] <aa-danimal-shop> valen, not all p4's have it, right? i have a few p4's here with ht and a few without
[00:58:26] <Valen> with the exception of a few very early ones they do
[00:58:31] <Valen> was a big selling feature
[00:58:31] <archivist> andypugh, there are some parts I cant work out on it so far
[00:58:38] <Valen> at that clock speed I'd wager it does
[00:58:46] <andypugh> Looks like it would need a kinematics module. There are 2 Z slides with an angular offset, and 2 C axes with variable offset..
[00:58:56] <Valen> if you cat /proc/cpuinfo it should tell you how many CPU's it can see
[00:59:03] <aa-danimal-shop> valen, i'll check, but i didnt see it in bios at all
[00:59:18] <aa-danimal-shop> type that in terminal?
[00:59:21] <Valen> (IE if it gives you the same info twice it can see 2 CPUs
[00:59:22] <Valen> yeah
[01:00:03] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop you can cd /proc and check out all the stuff you can cat or you can run a program called hwinfo that will spit out a detailed file of the system too
[01:00:30] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop it is best to rediredt > hwinfo to a file to read through
[01:00:37] <Valen> lshw is the good one pfred1 ;->
[01:00:42] <Valen> gives you *everything*
[01:01:01] <pfred1> Valen haven't checked that one out hwinfo seems awfully exhaustive to me
[01:01:06] <archivist> andypugh, I think http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/djcpd/PD/2010/2010_03_20_beichle/IMG_0531.JPG is just a calculator
[01:01:23] <Valen> lshw is also installed by default
[01:01:26] <Valen> as i recall
[01:01:36] <aa-danimal-shop> i dont see anything that makes me think it sees 2 processors
[01:01:42] <pfred1> Valen any of them beat right clicking on My Computer don't they?
[01:01:57] <Valen> it'll have a block of text, the question is, is it one block or 2
[01:01:58] <andypugh> If it goes for £150 that is a good price for the machine vice alone
[01:02:11] <archivist> you dont get the vice
[01:02:13] <pfred1> andypugh it doesn't come with the vise
[01:02:16] <andypugh> Bah!
[01:02:37] <pfred1> well you could argue that yo udon't want any new vices but you'll take the vise!
[01:02:53] <andypugh> But yes, looks like you dial in surface speed and diameter and it reads out rpm. which is rather neat
[01:02:54] <Valen> cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep "processor" should cut the output down
[01:03:02] <archivist> but I saved some small press tools from his scrap pile
[01:04:13] <archivist> his main machines from the work he did will all be scrapped, presses
[01:04:20] <andypugh> Are you going to bid on the device itself?
[01:04:33] <archivist> cant make my mind up yet
[01:04:56] <pfred1> archivist always go with your first instinct
[01:05:22] <archivist> wallet has a retraining order on me
[01:05:30] <archivist> restraining
[01:05:47] <pfred1> archivist while it is novel do yo ureally need that sort of novelty in your life?
[01:05:53] <Valen> broke im
[01:06:17] <andypugh> I would have it, but I don't have the space, and it would cost a lot to move. But at £150 is it basically free :-)
[01:06:20] <archivist> I always need novelty
[01:06:25] <pfred1> archivist I think if you be patient better machines will come down the pike
[01:06:44] <archivist> that is very rare
[01:06:52] <andypugh> He's got better machines, but none are quite to wacky.
[01:06:57] <Valen> archivist what's it actually do?
[01:07:23] <archivist> its just a milling machine but laid out differently
[01:07:36] <pfred1> Valen it looks like it sits there and collects rust to me
[01:07:44] <Valen> oh snap
[01:08:11] <archivist> its a vertical on its side with extra slides and rotary built in
[01:08:50] <archivist> a 5 axis with stacked rotaries can do the same
[01:09:05] <pfred1> archivist how much distance spindle to table is there?
[01:09:28] <archivist> I did not measure
[01:09:41] <pfred1> archivist everyone that looks at it seems to thnk it has a low distance there but its hard to tell
[01:09:56] <andypugh> Without the vice, and with both Z axes wound back, really quite a bit.
[01:10:00] <pfred1> archivist a foot 6 inches what?
[01:10:25] <pfred1> andypugh working on the table all the time sucks
[01:10:31] <pfred1> been there done that
[01:10:35] <archivist> pfred1, see http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/deckel-maho-aciera-abene-mills/beichle-universal-mill-sale-109740/
[01:11:13] <pfred1> archivist it looks just about all the way cranked back there and its just clearing the vise
[01:12:06] <archivist> the vice is not the sort of thing you would use normally, just bolt direct to the plate
[01:12:13] <andypugh> The upper-Z is all the way in in that picture though.
[01:12:40] <pfred1> andypugh oh yeah i didn't take that into account
[01:13:29] <andypugh> A set of edge clamps might be more convenient.
[01:13:32] <archivist> seem designed to be able to sit and the machine to use
[01:16:05] <andypugh> It seems designed to let you feed the tool into the work in any direction at all. Lots of degrees of freedom. The thing is that CNC makes a lot of that redundant.
[01:16:25] <archivist> he had a baby hand press but was waiting for the buyer to collect :((
[01:16:48] <pfred1> archivist you're into crushing babie's hands?
[01:16:58] <archivist> whole babies
[01:17:03] <andypugh> I think a CNC conversion of it would be pointless, but it would make it possible to hand-machine a lot of things that would otherwise require CNC
[01:18:02] <pfred1> andypugh I see myself doing lots of deep knee bends picking up jobs off the floor as i tried to get them onto the table
[01:18:17] <andypugh> Yes, that too.
[01:18:32] <andypugh> some sort of crane might be required.
[01:18:45] <tom3p> i had an aciera f1. it had no table, no tslots. it had a tooling system that clamped little pallets. you set the pallet up on a similar fixture outside the machine ( while the machine cut on another pallet)
[01:18:47] <pfred1> someone to hold stuff there while you clamp it down
[01:19:01] <andypugh> It's a pretty daft machine layout really, isn't it?
[01:19:31] <andypugh> Probaby designed for good workpiece visibility?
[01:19:31] <archivist> no very good to view what you are machining
[01:19:56] <pfred1> yeah like a picture haning on the wall I'm sure
[01:20:26] <archivist> important hand wheels are in a comfortable position if seated
[01:21:16] <archivist> probably just right for a job that takes a long time
[01:21:50] <pfred1> no wonder it never caught on no boss wants to see a worker sitting at a job for a long time!
[01:25:13] <pfred1> that is one nice aspect of the vertical table configuration though as you mill pockets the chips just fall out ofthem
[01:27:18] <archivist> for a die sinker that would be important I think
[01:27:57] <pfred1> yeah it sucks when you are hand milling a pocket and it gets so packed full of chips you can't see what is going on anymore
[01:29:03] <tom3p> heh for die sinker: and old trick was to put the work on the head and the tool on the table IF the gas didnt get trapped in the cavity (its hydrogen)
[01:31:53] <clytle374> Seen more than 1 edm on fire.
[01:33:19] <tom3p> i make an estop fire sensor for edm, detects a certain light wave enegy and IF it flickers, for n mSecs, it opens a relay.
[01:35:04] <clytle374> Good idea if unattended.
[01:35:22] <tom3p> hard to be foolproof, dang fools are pretty clever
[01:35:40] <archivist> they keep breeding better fools
[01:46:35] <Jymmm> tom3p: how does edm catch fire? isn't it submerged?
[01:47:00] <andypugh> Submerged in a flammable liquid...
[01:47:16] <Jymmm> liar
[01:47:49] <Jymmm> or maybe YOUR edm is in flammable liquid
[01:48:01] <andypugh> The one I used to use used parrafin.
[01:48:19] <Jymmm> oh, I thought you meant like 2 gal of gasoline! lol
[01:48:31] <Jymmm> sounds stupid to me
[01:48:37] <Jymmm> the wax that is
[01:48:59] <andypugh> Err, I am not sure what you call paraffin in the US.
[01:49:07] <tom3p> a parrafinic is a light oil like white gas aka kerosene
[01:49:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: parafin wax
[01:49:13] <andypugh> It is a lot closer to gasoline than wax.
[01:49:30] <andypugh> Kerosene, that's the one.
[01:49:46] <clytle374> It is fine until you get a mist and a spark at the same time.
[01:49:49] <Jymmm> Yeah, letss toss somethng with a 3000F deg arc into something thats a fuel for candles.
[01:50:09] <clytle374> We had tried non flammable liquids, they all sucked.
[01:50:19] <andypugh> Jymmm: No, forget the wax, this was a few gallons of what you would call Kerosene.
[01:50:32] <tom3p> edm oils are hyrdrocarbons, the spark cracks the oil into carbon and (tada) hydrogen
[01:50:37] <Jymmm> andypugh: same diff to me.
[01:51:06] <andypugh> Lamp oil? White gas?
[01:51:08] <Jymmm> tom3p: Ok, I believe you. still doesn't sound right to me
[01:51:22] <tom3p> the black is from the cracked carbon ( not the graphite electrode, thats negligible )
[01:51:52] <clytle374> I'd stay away from white gas for emd work ;)
[01:52:04] <andypugh> The wire EDM at the place I worked at after that used water as the electrolite. That seemed more sensible.
[01:52:16] <Jymmm> I think I'll just stick with explosives/pyrotechnics instead, sounds MUCH safer.
[01:52:40] <tom3p> de-ioniozed water is suited to the light weight power used in wire edm
[01:53:02] <Jymmm> tom3p: dont drink the water =)
[01:53:13] <clytle374> wire doesn't need as much wash as a sinker either.
[01:53:41] <tom3p> sabotage wedm... drop a mcdonalds salt packet into the tank
[01:53:54] <Jymmm> lol
[01:54:10] <andypugh> Does it make that much difference?
[01:54:22] <tom3p> clytle lots more flush thru the work gap, tons more the litres per minute are huge compared top sink edm
[01:54:35] <clytle374> exactly
[01:54:40] <tom3p> the salt ions whack the conductivity
[01:54:42] <Jymmm> andypugh: salt water is conductive
[01:55:32] <tom3p> you want one specific conductivity thru the whole cut, and to keep the kerf small, you want the conductivity smallish and very very constant
[01:55:36] <andypugh> Yes, I know, but I was questioning whether a salt packet in that quantity of water makes enough difference. It isn't like salt water is _very_ conductive.
[01:55:52] <tom3p> yes 1 salt packet will change it a few siemens
[01:56:08] <tom3p> change sevral hundred litres instantly
[01:56:17] <skunkworks> a little paint yet.. but mounted. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/newelecbox.JPG
[01:56:19] <tom3p> (iodized american salt)
[01:56:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: Actually, it is.
[01:56:39] <Jymmm> skunkworks: is that bondo?
[01:56:52] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/newelecin.JPG
[01:56:56] <skunkworks> yes - actually
[01:57:10] <tom3p> skunkworks: nice, clean & very workable
[01:57:15] <Jymmm> skunkworks: rusted thru?
[01:57:53] <tom3p> loads of i/o, is it several mesa i/o (>2) ?
[01:59:53] <skunkworks> 2
[02:00:39] <clytle374> skunkworks, happy wiring.
[02:00:48] <skunkworks> :)
[02:01:22] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I think you should layout the panduit before mounting anything
[02:01:45] <clytle374> Is that the huge mill with the rings that identify the tools?
[02:01:53] <skunkworks> yes
[02:02:11] <clytle374> Are you sticking with that systems, or updating it?
[02:02:38] <tom3p> that'll be both slots, 2 5i20's i spose, this emc stuff is realy cool, that huge beast controlled by that (plus amps somewhere)
[02:02:47] <Jymmm> skunkworks: also, change the CPU fan asap!
[02:03:21] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Those are known to go out at the worse possible time
[02:03:26] <TD-Linux> skunkworks: what kind of motor controllers are those?
[02:03:32] <Jymmm> skunkworks: that brand that is
[02:04:03] <Jymmm> TD-Linux: the boards?
[02:04:10] <Jymmm> TD-Linux: those are relays
[02:05:39] <skunkworks> I don't have any of the servo drives mounted yet.
[02:06:00] <skunkworks> all that is there is the optp22 boards and motherboard.
[02:06:14] <Jymmm> skunkworks: and a crappy cpu fan
[02:06:17] <skunkworks> jym
[02:06:31] <skunkworks> Jymmm: yes - I have had them fail also
[02:06:53] <Jymmm> skunkworks: go strip out an old computer of soemthing =)
[02:07:56] <Jymmm> skunkworks: are you going to use pandit or like wire tie clamps?
[02:08:02] <Jymmm> panduit
[02:08:30] <skunkworks> some sort of wire channel.
[02:08:34] <DaViruz> what's panduit?
[02:08:40] <skunkworks> what ever we have around :)
[02:08:46] <DaViruz> my image search came up with nothing conclusive
[02:08:57] <andypugh> A cross between Conduit and Pan-Pipes?
[02:09:10] <DaViruz> http://www.a-aelectric.com/images/panduit_wiring_duct.gif
[02:09:19] <DaViruz> seems like a likely candidate
[02:09:22] <Jymmm> this is panduit http://media.digikey.com/photos/Panduit%20Corp%20Photos/H4X4LG6.jpg
[02:09:30] <tom3p> DaViruz: google wireway
[02:09:40] <tom3p> panduit is one brand
[02:10:14] <DaViruz> yeah i figured as much
[02:10:38] <DaViruz> never heard it refered to called panduit, but then again i'm from far away
[02:10:51] <DaViruz> s/calles/as/
[02:11:22] <DaViruz> this typing thing clearly isn't going my way, i'll try the sleeping thing instead
[02:12:31] <elmo40> Jymmm: we have that stuff in our machines.
[02:12:35] <elmo40> makes things nice and neet
[02:12:40] <Jymmm> Panduit makes wiring purrrty http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/2362457955_f8219b6ce0_b.jpg
[02:13:06] <elmo40> and keeps crud off of it
[02:13:32] <elmo40> all blue wires?
[02:13:41] <elmo40> makes troubleshooting in the middle difficult
[02:13:52] <andypugh> Should use all-pink.
[02:14:01] <tom3p> it replaces wire lacing http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/ and is like sweeping dirt under the carpet :P
[02:14:04] <elmo40> if a few wires get snagged how to tell which one is what?
[02:14:05] <Jymmm> elmo40: If you need to "troubleshoot" in the middle, you have bigger problems.
[02:14:47] <tom3p> number every wire end, blue dc, red ac.... pick a style and use it consitantly
[02:14:50] <elmo40> not really. on a professional machine they get abused in every shape and form. just common use would mess up things. poor design will dictate that, though.
[02:15:14] <andypugh> http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5438923441932523602
[02:15:20] <andypugh> (I laced my loom)
[02:15:34] <elmo40> tom3p: sure, keep similar 'types' the same wire. all lead #2 on the servo, yellow w/black... that makes sense.
[02:15:52] <Jymmm> tom3p: One tome, I saw THE BEST lacing wiring ever! You could trace a single wire from one end of the cabinet all the way to the other. Was self supported, even at bends. Have never seen aynthing like it since.
[02:15:58] <tom3p> andypugh: cool, i use to have to braid everything
[02:16:32] <elmo40> andypugh: does the mill move along the lathe bed?
[02:16:37] <tom3p> Jymmm: yah, keeping them parralel around turns is just old school neat-freak, but looks great
[02:16:58] <andypugh> No. It is just bolted to the back of the bed.
[02:17:05] <Jymmm> tom3p: Parallel even over 8t distance
[02:17:11] <elmo40> so cant use it as a 4th... oh well
[02:17:15] <Jymmm> tom3p: 8 ft
[02:17:53] <Jymmm> tom3p: They didn't even use hose clamps on the water cooled amps
[02:18:09] <Jymmm> tom3p: never ever leaked
[02:19:05] <tom3p> yeh whole cabinet, no wire twists, wire went from loom to termination in a nice little arc , extermely anal but beautiful
[02:19:12] <Jymmm> tom3p: If I ever hit LA, I want to see if they'll let me take some photos if it's still there.
[02:20:05] <tom3p> machine tool?
[02:20:56] <Jymmm> tom3p: 7G vibration tester sitting on 110lb magnesium table that floated on a granite bed of oil
[02:21:22] <Jymmm> tom3p: The electric-coil was 220 3ph alone.
[02:21:30] <Jymmm> tom3p: and 3ft tall
[02:21:43] <Jymmm> tom3p: The ENTIRE plant knew when I was testing =)
[02:21:47] <tom3p> 7G solenoid slam !
[02:22:44] <Jymmm> tom3p: No, more like a giant electro-magnetic speaker coil, and the "cone" was the the magnesium table
[02:23:09] <Jymmm> tom3p: the 3 cabinets were the amp
[02:23:40] <tom3p> ah, cool, what them engineer folks will do
[02:23:43] <Jymmm> three full height cabinets, that were water cooled with the tower on the roof
[02:24:21] <tom3p> seen that 'bloom' fuel cell?
[02:24:39] <Jymmm> tom3p: I only got a lil scared when the roof leaked
[02:25:14] <Jymmm> ...into the floor channels where the 440 400A 3ph was fed in from
[02:25:57] <Jymmm> right below the magnesium table, then the cesium gas on top of that =)
[02:27:39] <andypugh> 7G? I laugh at your paltry 7G! My tester was 150G (but then it was just a flywheel, a pneumatic clutch and a cam)
[02:27:54] <tom3p> scary i had 440 go off once in my hands, knocked me out, after i catapulted thru the foreman , knocking him out. I woke up and raced to the john, kicked the toilet tank lid off and stuck my arms in. bastids wouldn't take me to the clinic, i had to walk.
[02:28:21] <tom3p> 150G's? can you use it and not rip a good chink or the world off?
[02:28:30] <tom3p> chink of
[02:28:34] <tom3p> chink of
[02:28:37] <tom3p> damn
[02:28:41] <tom3p> chunk of
[02:28:42] <SWPadnos> s/i/u/
[02:29:23] <elmo40> Jymmm: who uses hose clamps anymore? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_thread
[02:29:27] <elmo40> the best way to do it
[02:29:27] <Jymmm> tom3p: That's all I tested at. I think it was capable of a LOT more. Hell I shook the entire plant!
[02:29:47] <andypugh> The Mk1 version left the support bearing housings behind by about half an inch after the first test. (ie it bent the aluminium carriage)
[02:31:30] <elmo40> tom3p: that bloom fuel cell is intereting, to say the least.
[02:31:35] <elmo40> but still too expensive
[02:31:37] <andypugh> Night all
[02:31:42] <tom3p> gnite
[02:32:03] <elmo40> and, it produces co2 (are we supposed to be against that production? i get conflicting arguments...)
[02:33:48] <elmo40> AN fitting... Army-Navy
[02:33:58] <elmo40> if it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me ;)
[02:34:05] <tom3p> i think... monoxide is the bad thing , dioxide is what plants 'breath'
[02:34:13] <elmo40> true
[02:34:16] <elmo40> but only during the day
[02:34:22] <elmo40> at night they produce it.
[02:34:49] <tom3p> that AN connector is for metal tubes, people still use hose clamps for... hose
[02:35:12] <elmo40> "used to connect flexible hoses and rigid metal tubing"
[02:35:24] <elmo40> it is for the connection of hose to solid
[02:35:30] <tom3p> flare fitting for flexible tube? well news to me
[02:35:40] <elmo40> news? what rock have you lived under?
[02:35:48] <elmo40> dates back to World War Two
[02:36:07] <tom3p> flex & flared? news to me still
[02:36:08] <elmo40> but it isnt a 'flare fitting' per say...
[02:36:18] <elmo40> sorta is
[02:36:20] <elmo40> but isnt
[02:36:21] <elmo40> lol
[02:36:31] <tom3p> oh, now i understand
[02:36:59] <tom3p> ;)
[02:37:01] <elmo40> clear as mud?
[02:37:23] <elmo40> the AN uses a different taper.
[02:37:26] <elmo40> then a flare
[02:37:35] <elmo40> flares are for the common folk ;) 45deg
[02:37:55] <elmo40> like your car brake lines
[02:40:41] <elmo40> anyways... i am trying to make a DXF outline of the Steelers logo. Getting stuck on the tapered diamond shape. Using HeeksCNC.
[02:40:46] <elmo40> it isnt all that user friendly
[02:47:45] <tom3p> importing dxf or drawing it right in HeeksCAD?
[02:48:01] <elmo40> i tried that too
[02:48:11] <elmo40> just seemed to put it in the 'background'
[02:48:19] <elmo40> as if you use it for a template to draw over
[02:48:31] <tom3p> i been studying it too, its not complete yet, but will be very powerful
[02:49:05] <elmo40> still cant make any gcode. always get an error with some /tmp.tap file, or whatever
[02:49:20] <elmo40> been looking into freeCAD.
[02:49:25] <elmo40> seems ok, so far.
[02:53:09] <tom3p> my approach ( not very succesful) has been to try very simple single things, until i understand it. last i tried to duplicate a vid of skecth in HeeksCAD, i didnt succeed but suspect the W$ version is a bit better than the Linux version, thus the difference. i dont worry, am confident it will improve.
[03:05:32] <elmo40> the ms version isnt
[03:05:40] <elmo40> especially the cnc part of it.
[03:07:15] <tom3p> hmm, well the vid was geo0005 (?) and he got different menu than i did , so i guessed his success was due to a different build.
[03:08:37] <VernonM> Hello all
[03:09:21] <aa-danimal-shop> hi
[03:09:29] <aa-danimal-shop> lost power earlier, that was weird
[03:34:34] <elmo40> difficult controlling electrons, isnt it
[03:34:41] <elmo40> damn pesky things
[03:42:37] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[04:10:12] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[04:10:18] <aa-danimal-shop> wonder what happened
[04:10:48] <aa-danimal-shop> i think i lost power maybe 2 times in the 2 years i've been here
[04:10:57] <aa-danimal-shop> once was due to a bad storm
[04:11:02] <aa-danimal-shop> downed tree
[04:11:18] <aa-danimal-shop> but today, it couldnt have been any nicer out
[04:23:39] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[04:49:53] <elmo40> aa-danimal-shop: no UPS? ;)
[04:50:12] <elmo40> anyone try free-cad.sf.net ?
[04:54:06] <elmo40> i cant stand this metric stuff while drawing
[04:54:11] <elmo40> i am used to metric in everything else... just not drawing
[04:54:27] <elmo40> and there is no way to alter it! all the boxes are greyed out.
[04:56:24] <elmo40> what does everyone use for CAD?
[04:56:50] <elmo40> at work we have everything... solid works, autocad, catia...
[04:56:58] <cradek> autocad r12
[04:57:03] <elmo40> and then the cam packages. mastercam and gibbscam.
[04:57:49] <elmo40> but at home i have not installed those 'pro' apps and only tried free ones. nothing compares :P
[05:37:51] <EbiDK_> EbiDK_ is now known as EbiDK
[08:42:53] <MattyMatt> I'm forced to use metric by blender, when all dimensions are given as a decimal number
[08:45:15] <MattyMatt> but that's cool, because it's standard practice in UK now. kids from school don't think in inches anymore
[08:47:06] <MattyMatt> come to think of it, my schooling in the 70s was 100% metric, but everything outside school was feet & inches
[08:51:34] <BlackMoon> MattyMatt: you can work in.. decimal inchs!
[08:52:24] <archivist> digital vernier says use either
[09:00:03] <MattyMatt> grandads micrometer had a table of 1/256" to thous engraved on it :)
[09:01:28] <MattyMatt> decimal inches loses the flavour of imperial. money was better with 12 pence to the shilling too
[09:06:28] <MattyMatt> I bet it was the banks who forced that change through in 71, so they could use US software
[09:09:25] <MattyMatt> we had a currency for everyone. pence for kids, shillings for housewives, pounds for business
[09:10:48] <MattyMatt> guineas for the flagrantly wealthy
[09:11:14] <archivist> I need sovereigns
[09:13:32] <MattyMatt> I know someone with a goldmine in Finland
[09:15:07] <MattyMatt> it's just a gravel bed in a stream, but it could have been fun to set up a workcamp there, just to build team spirit for programming
[09:16:10] <MattyMatt> all our teams are pan-atlantic tho. teleworking is the only way
[09:17:17] <MattyMatt> we need a dosshouse on each continent, with permanent video links to the conference rooms
[09:17:35] <MattyMatt> I think they're called universities :)
[09:22:18] <MattyMatt> archivist, was it you who showed me 4.2A motors on sale for 28 quid? I can't find the link now
[09:23:22] <MattyMatt> my speed trial suggests I need to spend on wider pitch leadscrews first
[09:27:09] <archivist> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors/Stepper-Motors
[09:28:19] <MattyMatt> oh right, I thought I'd checked them :)
[09:29:20] <MattyMatt> I got my motor connectors from them, so it's easy to switch to 10mm shafts
[09:31:41] <MattyMatt> my Z motor tore itself loose, because of my wonky brass shaft connector. I'll use hose&clamps until I can justify 15 quid per pair of Oldham couplings
[09:33:01] <MattyMatt> I got one pair, to protect my posh ballscrew unit, and to have one axis at least that moves enough to test the software :)
[09:37:04] <MattyMatt> attaching M8 to one of those is tricky though, unless I get an 8mm one and clamp it around the thread. If I tapped one out by hand I'm throwing away all the accuracy I'm paying for
[09:39:56] <MattyMatt> hose & clamps, plenty for now
[09:40:36] <MattyMatt> me scans ebay for random marchantdice bargains
[09:41:31] <MattyMatt> there was a complete 4" Z went for around 50 quid in December. I shoulda woulda coulda
[09:53:05] <MrSunshine> gah i would need some cad drawings of the leadscrew mounts for the X1 seig mill, anyone have? :)
[10:02:55] <MrSunshine> http://www.hamish.dds.nl/posts/handle-support-x1.gif those blocks i would like a cad drawing of
[10:03:34] <MattyMatt> the obvious person to ask is Hamish
[10:04:04] <MrSunshine> hehe true =)
[10:04:17] <MrSunshine> but that takes more time then if someone has something laying arou dhere :P
[10:04:59] <MattyMatt> I have cad of my machine, but it ain't a Sieg
[10:05:46] <MattyMatt> I need to update that model to reflect reality
[10:06:22] <MrSunshine> gonna redo the damn things in alu insted, and make leadscrew supports on both sides of the table
[10:06:31] <MrSunshine> so i wont have like 30cm of wobbly leadscrew sticking out =)
[10:07:17] <MattyMatt> does your nut float radially?
[10:07:32] <MrSunshine> MattyMatt, what does that mean? :)
[10:07:57] <MrSunshine> the nut is stuck to the table but when its the furthest in against the leadscrew mount all of the rest of the screw is hainging in the air
[10:08:14] <MrSunshine> makes for alot of vibrations when it comes up to speed
[10:08:29] <MattyMatt> if the leadscrew isn't perfectly straight, it will jam if the leadscrew is held at both ends
[10:08:56] <MrSunshine> tested it in a lathe and its quite straight =)
[10:09:32] <MattyMatt> so why does it vibrate, if it's so perfectly balanced ;)
[10:09:55] <MrSunshine> MattyMatt, cause i cant get the damn motor aligned perfectly to the damn leadscrew :/
[10:10:09] <MrSunshine> but heard other people has had problems with vibrations on these mills
[10:10:41] <MattyMatt> Oldham Couplings. the answer to my prayers, although they are only good to 4Nm
[10:13:28] <MrSunshine> i have couplings that is supposed to take 0.2mm errors but it still throws everything around like hell, but when i put it up in a lathe it all is straight down to under the hundreds
[10:13:53] <MrSunshine> im starting to think toothed belt drive insted =)
[10:14:40] <archivist> machine the stepper mount and the leadscrew bearing at the same setting
[10:16:39] <BlackMoon> Shaft alignment is a fickle mistress
[10:17:14] <MattyMatt> there's a rack drive Z on fleabay. nice looking but it's 250q used
[10:18:28] <MattyMatt> 330mm travel. could be more than a Z
[10:19:23] <MattyMatt> I wouldn't use belt drive on a metalworking machine, personally. it seem to work great for wood, with big enough motors
[10:20:08] <MrSunshine> MattyMatt, hmm, why ?
[10:21:03] <MattyMatt> vibration in the taut belt could allow high freq chatter
[10:23:12] <MattyMatt> that's just my instinct tho. I haven't used heavy duty belts
[10:24:38] <MattyMatt> the low noise & high speed are attractive
[10:27:43] <MattyMatt> metal chips would destroy a belt rather quickly, that's another reason not to
[10:28:36] <MattyMatt> a leadscrew is self-cleaning, relatively
[10:33:24] <MattyMatt> make a linear stepper :) it looks like all you need for that is a mill
[10:33:52] <MrSunshine> MattyMatt, well im going to have the leadscrew then toothed belt from the motor to the leadscrew
[10:34:06] <MrSunshine> to get rid of the tryin to align to axels perfectly against eacother =)
[10:34:48] <MrSunshine> so i can put a box over the belt without a problem to protect it =)
[10:35:00] <MattyMatt> a short belt won't chatter so much
[10:35:37] <MattyMatt> and the backlash won't be worse than any other flxible coupling
[10:36:11] <MrSunshine> and i get rid of the stupid problem of aligning axises
[10:36:22] <MrSunshine> just have to have a belt taughter or whatever its called
[10:36:32] <MattyMatt> tensioner
[10:37:21] <MrSunshine> ahh yes =)
[10:37:29] <MattyMatt> although with a short belt that usually means the motor is mounted in slots
[10:37:47] <MrSunshine> how do you mean? :)
[10:37:56] <MattyMatt> like a car alternator
[10:38:41] <MrSunshine> yeah on a thingie that just offsets the motor
[10:41:17] <MattyMatt> it seems like it just adds problems tho, as you'll need bearings/straight holes for the pulleys
[10:42:52] <MattyMatt> maybe a rubber bearing at the far end of the leadscrew would damp the vibrations
[10:43:32] <MrSunshine> MattyMatt, well im still stuck with the problem to align the damn motor to the shaft so that no bending ec occures
[10:43:35] <MattyMatt> a tap washer running in a steel hole or groove, with lots of vaseline
[10:46:34] <MattyMatt> if you are using flexible motor couplings, then the problem sounds like it's in the leadscrew bearing
[10:47:06] <MattyMatt> is that in line with the slide?
[10:51:14] <MattyMatt> it all sounds way too precise for my experience. I haven't even got a dial gauge :)
[10:52:58] <MrSunshine> well, the leadscrew bearing needss to be changed to a roller one, atm its two axial bearings to set the screw in place then a glide bearing to hold it up and down
[10:53:04] <BlackMoon> MrSunshine: add 3 or 4 set screws to tweak the motor alignment untill it doesnt bind :)
[10:53:13] <MrSunshine> would go alot smoother if i bore dup the glide thingie and put a needle bearing there =)
[10:53:24] <MrSunshine> BlackMoon, have for up and down atm
[10:53:31] <MrSunshine> 4 of them so i can tillt it etc however i want
[10:53:36] <MrSunshine> its sideways i have nothing on
[10:53:42] <BlackMoon> you don't need sideways alignment
[10:53:48] <BlackMoon> with a rigid coupler it will align itself
[10:54:07] <BlackMoon> its the angular alignment that will get screwed up by your mounting flange
[10:54:14] <BlackMoon> assumeing your bolting it from the face of the motor
[10:54:45] <BlackMoon> (gets screwed up when you tighten the mounting bolts that is)
[12:19:37] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:44:54] <BlackMoon> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=533240&postcount=10 hahahhaa
[14:28:56] <MattyMatt> geartrains does have a cultural bias towards those of us from heavy industrial countries
[14:29:30] <MattyMatt> ..who had meccano & lego as kids :)
[15:12:52] <JT-Dev> I had a camp axe and a rusty saw and had to make my own Lincoln Logs
[15:37:17] <elmo40> i used my boy scout knife to make a TeePee
[15:37:53] <elmo40> lego was for the cool kids, while meccano was for the rich kids.
[16:02:48] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/newelecbox1.JPG
[16:03:33] <skunkworks> that is a magnetic level holding the ribbon cable. ;)
[16:08:32] <skunkworks> re-crimping ends on the 50 pin ribbon cable seem to work wonderfully
[16:14:12] <cradek> skunkworks: did you just saw away the parts of the case you didn't want? That's what I did for jr too.
[16:15:08] <skunkworks> computer case? yes
[16:15:54] <cradek> how long until we all get to come see it move?
[16:16:13] <skunkworks> few weeks I hope. (I only get there once or twice a week)
[16:17:23] <skunkworks> cradek: did you see this one? http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/newelecbox.JPG
[16:17:44] <skunkworks> we made a section of the box deeper for the servo drives.
[16:18:18] <skunkworks> dad plugged all the original holes in the boxes so we have a blank slate.
[16:18:42] <cradek> is this the machine with the lifting/unlocking rotary axis?
[16:18:45] <skunkworks> yes
[16:19:16] <cradek> and a random tool changer - neato - you get to use all the new features
[16:19:31] <skunkworks> I suppose almost built like a turret. (it indexes in 5 degree increments)
[16:19:47] <skunkworks> :) yes - Thought it was time.
[16:21:31] <cradek> wow, that's quite a box
[16:21:39] <skunkworks> * a few weeks before it is moving.. You don't have to come at that point.. ;))
[16:22:19] <skunkworks> top will be logic/ssr and such. bottom will be motor start relays, vfd and such.
[16:23:05] <skunkworks> just have to make all the bits work togather.
[16:23:45] <skunkworks> we looked into the spindle transmission - looks like we can shoe horn an encoder in there.
[16:24:27] <skunkworks> it will be belt driven.
[16:24:47] <skunkworks> * timing belt.
[16:25:37] <cradek> neat - past all the gears?
[16:26:51] <skunkworks> yes - it will actually be mounted near where the collet cylinder pushes'
[16:28:35] <cradek> perfect
[16:28:53] <cradek> bbl - the sun is shining!
[16:30:13] <skunkworks> same here!
[16:36:23] <elmo40> skunkworks: you have an overall pic?
[16:37:27] <elmo40> i see it now. just went up one directory
[16:43:06] <skunkworks> heh
[16:43:07] <skunkworks> yes
[16:44:13] <skunkworks> this is what it looked like from the factory... http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
[16:54:08] <JT-Hardinge> that's quite a stretch between the keyboard and the monitor :)
[16:54:33] <atmega> does anyone have code for a trivial PCB I could have?
[17:03:29] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1654012034.html
[17:23:29] <skunkworks> JT-Hardinge: that is probably temporary. ;)
[17:23:39] <skunkworks> I hope
[17:23:54] <JT-Hardinge> lol
[17:24:20] <skunkworks> I had to see if it booted after being transfered..;.
[17:24:23] <JT-Hardinge> I know what you mean, mine is sitting on a saw horse with a piece of plywood laying on top
[17:24:33] <skunkworks> heh
[17:26:52] <Jymmm> skunkworks: why is there an oiler in the cabinet?
[17:27:04] <skunkworks> tapping holes for mounting things.
[17:27:05] <Jymmm> skunkworks: squeeky cpu?
[17:27:09] <Jymmm> oh, heh
[17:27:51] <skunkworks> That plate is tough. already broke 2 taps. (got them to come out though.)
[17:28:33] <skunkworks> the one thing that sucks is that goal3 motherboard doesn't seem to have a boot on power option.
[17:31:17] <Jymmm> yimer relay
[17:31:20] <Jymmm> timer
[17:31:40] <skunkworks> yah - doable.
[17:32:46] <skunkworks> or a button..
[17:33:12] <Jymmm> I thought you wanted it to boot when machine gets power?
[17:33:57] <skunkworks> yes.. might still want a button though.. just thinking out loud.
[17:34:17] <Jymmm> *MAYBE* short the power_on button on the mobo
[17:34:39] <skunkworks> might work.. I have had computers just restart every 10 seconds though.
[17:34:51] <skunkworks> :)
[17:34:57] <Jymmm> That's why I said maybe =)
[17:35:28] <skunkworks> Jymmm: dad welded plugs in all the holes so the box is back to virgin. (what is why there is bondo)
[17:35:40] <Jymmm> The mobo's I have give a option to restore to previous state or power on or power off state when power is loss.
[17:36:01] <Jymmm> skunkworks: ah ok
[17:36:02] <SWPadnos> pop the gray(?) wire out of the PSU harness, and short it to ground (any of the black wires)
[17:36:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Uh, no. it's GRN - PWR_GOOD
[17:36:36] <SWPadnos> no, that's not it
[17:36:38] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: duh - that would power the supply up - wouldn't it..
[17:36:43] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yes, it is.
[17:36:43] <SWPadnos> yes, it would :)
[17:36:47] <SWPadnos> no, it's not
[17:36:50] <skunkworks> heh
[17:37:02] <SWPadnos> PWR_GOOD comes on after the PSU has stabilized (in theory)
[17:37:33] <SWPadnos> ok, it is the green wire, but it's called "power on" :)
[17:37:39] <SWPadnos> grey is power good ;)
[17:37:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: No, PWR_GOOD is a signal FROM the mobo to the PS
[17:37:45] <SWPadnos> no
[17:38:06] <SWPadnos> gray (the wrong color I chose) is the signal from the PSU to the MB that says that the power supply is up and running
[17:38:25] <SWPadnos> green (the right color you chose) is power on, which is a command from the MB to the PSU to power up
[17:38:42] <SWPadnos> according to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX
[17:39:58] <SWPadnos> ok, time for me to run. see you :)
[17:40:29] <skunkworks> thanks
[17:51:38] <BlackMoon> Power on to ground is what you want
[17:51:55] <BlackMoon> power good is asserted BY the psu after power has stablised, though many psus just connect it right to +5v
[18:09:03] <BlackMoon> On that note, shorting power good to power on should produce a power on signal that stops once the psu is on. :P
[18:34:40] <pfred1> * pfred1 breezes in on a katabolic wind ...
[18:36:15] <BlackMoon> ...
[18:39:54] <pfred1> I think i found a way to beat free Eagle's board size limitation here
[18:41:12] <BlackMoon> its called download the crack
[18:42:13] <pfred1> BlackMoon well that'd be stealing and I don't steal
[18:42:32] <frallzor> borrow a workaround from teh internetz then? :P
[18:43:47] <pfred1> what I do is print each circuit section to a file and Eagle spits out PDF then open each PDF in ghostview save as a PS then open each PS in Gimp combine and print to a PDF file again
[18:44:29] <pfred1> viola now board size doesn't matter and they all are together in one big board!
[18:45:37] <BlackMoon> ... Sure, till you gotta export some g-code
[18:45:59] <BlackMoon> and talk about *work*around
[18:46:13] <pfred1> BlackMoon http://www.pstoedit.net/
[18:46:38] <pfred1> BlackMoon it converts PDFs to DXFs
[18:47:24] <BlackMoon> and what good are dxfs?
[18:47:39] <frallzor> you can cam with them
[18:47:41] <pfred1> I'd love to use an FOSS circuit board program and I even tried two but neither of them really works for me
[18:47:56] <pfred1> so ...
[18:48:44] <pfred1> frallzor knows!
[18:49:02] <frallzor> but still a crack is better =)
[18:49:38] <pfred1> I may even try to edit PDF converted to DXFs but i am more comfortable using Gimp than any DXF software I've tried
[18:50:19] <pfred1> frallzor I have 0 illegal software packages and I intend to keep it that way who knows what you get with those cracks
[18:51:01] <frallzor> if you arent a complete idiot its pretty easy to see what you get =)
[18:51:03] <pfred1> although i suppose warezis all that keeps Microsoft afloat
[18:51:56] <pfred1> really until this motor driver board the Eagle size limit was never a big problem for me
[19:01:28] <skunkworks> traces can be run outside of the board limits... :)
[19:01:59] <pfred1> skunkworks I can't even jamp all of the parts into the alloted area I don't think
[19:13:17] <pfred1> yup this stuff works
[19:21:32] <Jymmm> What's the name of the thing you attach to the inside of your vise's jaws?
[19:21:51] <pfred1> Jymmm pads?
[19:22:01] <Jymmm> Sorta, but there's another name for it
[19:22:01] <pfred1> jaws?
[19:22:26] <pfred1> Jymmm I know what you mean I've made them
[19:22:39] <Jymmm> I think it begins with a 'B'
[19:23:11] <pfred1> I've made some nice copper ones
[19:23:25] <Jymmm> Well, what's the name of them damnit! lol
[19:23:45] <pfred1> I donno i just know they're sitting in the drawer under my mill
[19:24:09] <pfred1> its nice to make them out of aluminum sometimes too
[19:24:30] <pfred1> Jymmm hey know what i usually use? I rip the palm out of an old leather glove
[19:24:51] <pfred1> and just sorta slap that onto the jaw
[19:25:12] <pfred1> sides of old boots works OK too as do old boot tongues
[19:25:49] <elmo40> skunkworks: your machine only does 5deg indexes?
[19:31:19] <skunkworks> yes
[19:31:37] <pfred1> skunkworks no tickles for you!
[19:32:45] <pfred1> I'm starting to come around to the idea of a moving gantry machine with twin X leads to drive the gantry
[19:33:03] <pfred1> I can't come up with a good moving table design that doesn't take up too much space
[19:37:28] <pfred1> Jymmm you ever find the word you were looking for?
[19:37:42] <pfred1> I always thought they were called jaw protectors myself
[19:38:16] <pfred1> jaw covers
[19:41:00] <JT-Dev> soft jaws
[19:41:12] <pfred1> JT-Dev works for me :)
[19:49:16] <pfred1> my whole dastardly motor driver in one file: http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6325/stitched.png
[20:47:12] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge wonders what TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION = 0 0 0 will do if you have a lathe with no Y axis
[20:48:21] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge how one dimensional of you!
[20:48:56] <pfred1> * pfred1 tries to catch up one some robot pr0n ....
[20:49:46] <pfred1> Caprica.S01E07.The.Imperfections.of.Memory.HDTV.XviD-FQM.avi
[20:52:06] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge sees that TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION = 0 0 0 refers to machine origins as suspected
[20:55:10] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge sounds suspiciously like an old Star Trek plot line to me
[21:04:59] <LawrenceG> jmkasunich, you about the keyboard this afternoon?
[21:05:12] <Administrator_> JT-Hardinge, you set the middle number to zero
[21:05:37] <Administrator_> you need all 3 digits
[21:06:07] <Administrator_> wtf, why is my name administrator?
[21:06:09] <Administrator_> odd
[21:06:28] <Administrator_> Administrator_ is now known as aa-danimal-shop
[21:07:06] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, you set the middle number to zero
[21:07:14] <aa-danimal-shop> all 3 digits must be present
[21:07:24] <alex_joni> aa-danimal-shop: you mean TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION is always X,Y,Z
[21:07:34] <Jymmm> pfred1: I was thinking 'anvil', like on pruning shears.
[21:07:39] <alex_joni> even if Y is missing for a lathe, the number needs to be present in the config
[21:07:40] <aa-danimal-shop> x,y,z,a,b,c, etc
[21:07:49] <aa-danimal-shop> correct
[21:08:23] <aa-danimal-shop> i figured that out when i set up my lathe
[21:08:41] <LawrenceG> jmkasunich, 2 questions in case you come online... re shoptask Z conversion... did you keep spring return?, did you reuse z stop bracket or make a new spindle bearing seal cap/drive arm?
[21:09:10] <aa-danimal-shop> hmm my x axis isnt giving me following errors anymore (or at least at this moment) with the new pc
[21:09:18] <aa-danimal-shop> odd
[21:11:56] <aa-danimal-shop> oh well... i guess i'll still change the belts anyways
[21:12:05] <aa-danimal-shop> they're older than me
[21:13:57] <frallzor> hmm why would the Z-assembly for 250mm travel on the mechmate require a 350mm stroke gasspring?
[21:14:06] <frallzor> logical?
[21:14:50] <pfred1> frallzor extra piston to keep it aligned?
[21:15:23] <frallzor> keep what aligned?
[21:15:39] <pfred1> forget it
[21:17:51] <frallzor> there is also a 350mm assembly for 350mm travel, seems logical if the 350mm stroke works for that, 250mm stroke will work for 250mm travel...
[21:20:21] <archivist> spring rate
[21:21:09] <frallzor> what about rate for 350mm travel then
[21:21:15] <frallzor> its 350 for 350 too =)
[21:21:33] <pfred1> I guess they only want to source one part
[21:22:11] <JT-Hardinge> hey Dan!
[21:22:13] <frallzor> its just a drawing, where many other things are different on different lenghts and stuff, this seems silly
[21:22:25] <frallzor> Ill just get a 250mm stroke one
[21:23:12] <aa-danimal-shop> hey John
[21:23:16] <aa-danimal-shop> hows it going?
[21:24:04] <JT-Hardinge> good just figuring out a few things like where I want home to be etc.
[21:24:43] <JT-Hardinge> are you using TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION = 0 0 0 on your lathe
[21:35:58] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge Home is where you hang your hat
[21:39:10] <aa-danimal-shop> yes
[21:39:31] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, you need a value for y
[21:40:10] <aa-danimal-shop> so it'd be TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION = 3 0 7 if 3 was your value for x and 7 was your value for z
[21:40:34] <MattyMatt> My home at Newport Pagnell services on the M1 then. I left my hat in the cafe
[21:40:35] <pfred1> * pfred1 hands aa-danimal-shop a copy of Flatland ... http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland/
[21:41:05] <aa-danimal-shop> i have my home position all the way over in X+ and Z+
[21:41:14] <MattyMatt> my table moves \o/ I have 3 axes
[21:41:41] <JT-Hardinge> that's where I have mine at ... home offset is 0 for both axis
[21:41:51] <pfred1> MattyMatt i have lots of axes quite a few hatchets for that matter too!
[21:42:34] <JT-Hardinge> hmm, I'm getting 0.0500 error during a rapid move
[21:42:37] <MattyMatt> axises then. the OED claims that's more correct now
[21:42:42] <aa-danimal-shop> wowsers
[21:42:53] <aa-danimal-shop> gotta tune it some more
[21:43:38] <pfred1> I could use a new bar on my chainsaw
[21:44:42] <JT-Hardinge> hmm, X max vel was set double of norm...
[21:45:12] <MattyMatt> I don't pay much attention to the OED since I learned Tolkein wrote most of the Ws
[21:46:43] <JT-Hardinge> that's better 0.001 at rapid speed
[21:47:01] <pfred1> How, though the Sphere shewed me other mysteries of Spaceland, I still desired more; and what came of it
[21:47:56] <MattyMatt> forget the chainsaw, teach a robot to swing an axe
[21:52:33] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: what procedure do you use to set up your turret with the tool table?
[21:56:55] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, just zoffset and xoffset
[21:57:51] <aa-danimal-shop> i use mastercam for programing, so i just need to know where the theorietical sharp corner of the tool is
[21:58:37] <JT-Hardinge> ok
[21:59:43] <aa-danimal-shop> weird... i'm not getting ferrors now
[21:59:54] <aa-danimal-shop> all i did was swap out the pc and do the updates
[22:00:15] <JT-Hardinge> did you get your belts changed?
[22:00:59] <aa-danimal-shop> not yet
[22:10:03] <andypugh> What fun... My trial copy of Alibre design reverted to the limited "Express" mode, so I bought the upgrade version online. That license is somehow attached to an account I created several years ago and had forgotten about, whereas the active installation is linked to last months account. I can see this being rather tricky to sort out.
[22:10:52] <pfred1> andypugh nothng like paying for a little trouble is there?
[22:11:32] <andypugh> Of course, as a cheapskate I bought the version with no support, so there is every chance that they won't even talk to me.
[22:12:30] <pfred1> andypugh no, you want to talk to billing, billing will always talk to customers
[22:12:56] <andypugh> I think that it is all the same chap in the UK...
[22:13:35] <pfred1> andypugh but if you bring it up as a billing matter they may technically correct it just to be rid of you :)
[22:14:25] <andypugh> Worth a try. I might try deleting cookies too, to see if I can log in as the new old me, rather than the old new me.
[22:15:46] <pfred1> billing customer support and technical support are all subtle shades of difference that must be manipulated carefully if ones goals are to be achieced
[22:16:56] <pfred1> which is to say it is better to play the fool and let them figure it all out it is their mess after all
[22:17:30] <andypugh> I think part of the blame lies with me, I let autocomplete fill out the order form.
[22:22:33] <pfred1> it is a shame there are no FOSS alternatives to commercial offerings in the CAM market
[22:24:55] <pfred1> damn $4,000!
[22:25:45] <andypugh> I look at it another way. I find it frankly amazing that there is a FOSS CNC machine controller.
[22:26:31] <andypugh> So considering how much work there is in a CAM package, I am not surprised.
[22:26:49] <pfred1> well apparently mach is much more popular why I don't know
[22:27:01] <andypugh> Windows.
[22:27:28] <pfred1> doesn't Windows require a license by itself?
[22:27:49] <pfred1> I mean when you get EMC you get thrown a copy of linux gratis
[22:27:54] <andypugh> Yes. Or so I understand.
[22:28:48] <pfred1> and EMC makes a fair number of Linux converts it seems
[22:28:50] <andypugh> I think that people fail to realise at the time that the CNC controller will almost always end up being a dedicated machine, so it doesn't matter if it won't run your games.
[22:29:33] <pfred1> I chalk Linux avoidance up to the fear of the unknown mostly
[22:29:50] <pfred1> once most people see Linux thery're like yeah i can do this
[22:30:14] <pfred1> then after they use it for a while they come to the realization that linux just works
[22:31:09] <andypugh> Quite probably. It was no big deal for me, I am a 30-year MacOS user so had to use an unfamiliar OS with either choice.
[22:31:16] <pfred1> I do remember when game developers tried to get on the linux platorm and what a disaster that was
[22:33:06] <pfred1> have macs been around for that long I didn't really notice them popping up too much until around 1981 or so
[22:33:45] <pfred1> well those weren't even Macs then they were ][es
[22:33:48] <andypugh> I can't do sums.
[22:34:10] <andypugh> I meant 25 years.
[22:34:25] <pfred1> about a half a dozen of the richer kids I went to school with had them by then
[22:34:32] <andypugh> But probably only 20 years of actually owning them myself.
[22:34:48] <pfred1> * pfred1 went to school in a very affluent community
[22:35:06] <pfred1> was ranked 7th per capita in the country then
[22:35:42] <pfred1> it wasn't so much that your familry were millionares but how many millions
[22:35:55] <andypugh> Yeah, sounds like it. When I was at university the whole department had 3 computers (BBC micros) to share for personal stuff (there were a number of mainframes that students were allowed nowhere near)
[22:36:46] <pfred1> one of the brats got a maseritti for his 17th birthday
[22:37:29] <andypugh> I have never figured out how anyone gets quite that wealthy.
[22:37:35] <pfred1> though his dad did end up doing a 2 1/2 year stretch for tax evasion several years later
[22:37:45] <andypugh> Ah, perhaps that is the way?
[22:38:13] <pfred1> yeah you don't comy by it completely honestly
[22:39:34] <andypugh> Hurrah! I have Alibre working the way I paid for now.
[22:39:55] <pfred1> it is good to get what you paid for
[22:40:34] <pfred1> I did a rotten thing earlier to avoid a commercial license
[22:41:09] <pfred1> andypugh check it out made with the freeware Eagle: http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6325/stitched.png
[22:42:02] <pfred1> andypugh turns out you can print to PDF open with ghostview export to PS then import to Gimp manipulate and re-export to PDF
[22:42:52] <pfred1> and circumvent their 3x5 board size limitaiton in the process
[22:43:06] <andypugh> Though I guess the autorouting capabilities of The Gimp are less well developed?
[22:43:44] <pfred1> andypugh yeah i still need to hack it up some more I'm goingto point to point wire this anyways so I just need the print out as a drill guide
[22:44:24] <pfred1> I tried to get geda and kicad to work neither worked for me
[22:44:46] <MattyMatt> you haven't got any decoupling caps by the logic chips. are they still modern practice?
[22:44:54] <andypugh> Point-to-point is somewhat easier with solder-through lacquered wire and a dispenser, if you can get one.
[22:45:17] <pfred1> andypugh I just use old discarded bell wire
[22:46:35] <andypugh> You might get some ideas from http://freespace.virgin.net/john.hardaker/Musatek/vero.html
[22:46:49] <pfred1> andypugh here's what the last one turned out looking like: http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6572/stepproto1b.jpg
[22:47:14] <JT-Hardinge> HMMM, I have some minus error on acceleration and plus error on deceleration
[22:47:21] <MattyMatt> 100nf across the 5V line, right by the chips. one per 10 chips minimum iirc
[22:47:38] <MattyMatt> that was the days when the whole computer was TTL
[22:47:44] <pfred1> MattyMatt there are less than 10 chips on the board and plenty of capacitance to go around
[22:48:02] <pfred1> MattyMatt and as built works just fine
[22:48:56] <MattyMatt> it might be a tiny bit more noise immune with them, but I dunno how much so, if measurable
[22:49:27] <pfred1> all the caps in the world won't save this circuit from noise but two optos do
[22:49:47] <JT-Hardinge> hmmm, the X max velocity caps the Z which can do double
[22:49:52] <MattyMatt> the noise is generated by other gates switching
[22:50:04] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, it doesnt cap it
[22:50:10] <andypugh> JT-Hardinge: Sounds like a relativistic error to me.
[22:50:14] <pfred1> MattyMatt not when you're PWMing an inductor it doesn't
[22:50:35] <aa-danimal-shop> it says the slower max velocity on the screen, but it doesnt actually cap it
[22:51:03] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, i have a similar issue with the error
[22:51:17] <aa-danimal-shop> andypugh, what is that?
[22:51:48] <JT-Hardinge> G0 on X does 180 ipm and on Z does 180ipm and it should do 360ipm
[22:51:55] <andypugh> aa-danimal-shop: Err, sorry, that was facetiousness.
[22:52:08] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: really the screen lies to us?
[22:52:24] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, yes, it lies
[22:52:39] <aa-danimal-shop> try changing the x max velocity to like .1 and see what the z does.
[22:53:00] <aa-danimal-shop> the screen will cap at .1 and the z will still do whatever it's set at
[22:53:16] <JT-Hardinge> that's confusing :/
[22:53:20] <aa-danimal-shop> indeed
[22:53:23] <aa-danimal-shop> i tested it
[22:53:29] <pfred1> where's Ron Popiel when you need him anyways?
[22:53:36] <JT-Hardinge> I take your word for it then :)
[22:54:01] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, never do that! lol
[22:54:39] <aa-danimal-shop> i could be doing somethnig wrong, but that's how my mill is. I have x set slower than y and y is set slower than z
[22:55:30] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, how come z can go that much faster?
[22:55:49] <aa-danimal-shop> same motor, amp, and gear reduction?
[22:56:08] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop same lead?
[22:56:11] <JT-Hardinge> I'm not sure but Robh said it does
[22:56:34] <aa-danimal-shop> weird
[22:56:59] <JT-Hardinge> totally different pid settings too
[22:57:05] <aa-danimal-shop> are your scales the same for x and z?
[22:57:18] <JT-Hardinge> yes
[22:57:21] <aa-danimal-shop> weird
[22:57:40] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe z has a bigger motor
[22:57:48] <aa-danimal-shop> mine are both 200ipm max
[22:58:44] <aa-danimal-shop> i really dont get it... why the hell am i not getting ferrors anymore?
[22:58:55] <aa-danimal-shop> the old computer must have had somethnig to do with it
[22:59:15] <aa-danimal-shop> but why it was only for x+ and nothing else is beyond me
[22:59:23] <JT-Hardinge> ahh, don't complain if you magically fixed it
[23:00:06] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, ehh, i'd rather know what's wrong with it. I need this machine to put food on my table, i cant afford to have it die in the middle of a run
[23:00:36] <aa-danimal-shop> on that note, chilli is done, time to eat :)
[23:01:07] <MattyMatt> a unimate arm would be more effective at putting food on the table
[23:01:29] <aa-danimal-shop> let me know if you figure out why you're getting that pattern of ferror. i'm getting a similar one, although it's minimal now
[23:01:38] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: I know the feeling
[23:01:55] <aa-danimal-shop> MattyMatt, a hot blonde would be more effective
[23:01:57] <MattyMatt> mounted on top of the fridge would be convenient
[23:02:21] <MattyMatt> ..the blonde, that is :)
[23:02:25] <aa-danimal-shop> i wont say where she'd be conveniently mounted
[23:02:30] <aa-danimal-shop> haha
[23:02:33] <aa-danimal-shop> beat me to it
[23:03:25] <aa-danimal-shop> ok, adios