[#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/,
wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
SWPadnos, you fixed it!
Was it shocked on a bit?
dunno. I just logged in and restarted the processes
[#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/,
wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
logger_emc, are you okay?
I'm logging. Sorry, searching removed.
sorry everyone, I found it funny. Long day today.
That's how my day started, pooped on.
what do they call that, a brownout?
or a cleveland steamer?
Milking while asleep. sadly, nothing kinky.
still sounds it
was she hot?
normal bovine temperature
now this has just taken a turn for the weird
when you implemented farm animals
My day started with a dream of someone setting a nuke off in canada.
I blame americans.
DAMN YOU AMERICANS, YOU BLEW IT UP!
GreyMoons, do you blame us?
damn dirty filthy americans, you really blew it up!
we don't start wars here.
i mean, come on, it's Canada
well I can't think of anyone else who would wanna nuke canada.
someone had to do it, and we're the only one with balls
Yea no other country has nuked anyone either.
first in space, first to nuke
100% of the nukes used on citys where fired by the USA.
or they were aming at the US and the guidance system sucked.
thats a hard satistic to fight against.
because 2 is such a good sample size.
clytle374: statistics show that american guidance systems are worse then the rest of the world.
So its still more likey it was americans trying to shoot some other country and missing and hiting canada.
yea, Japan actually launched those nukes at us, but they bought the guidance system from Canada so it failed
then some other country trying to shoot america
clytle374: well look at the friendly fire going on in iraq
thats some fail guidance
GreyMoons, are you Canadian?
anything i can do?
Yes, please point your nukes in a non northenly directly.
is it contageous?
i dont wanna catch it
afganistan is not to the north of the USA, please learn geographics, I don't wanna be nuked
I think you're a bit paranoid
clytle374: living next to the most paranoid warmongering nation on the face of the planet has that kinda effect on ya.
The US will nuke the US before Canada
clytle374: yea but chances are they will miss
plus theres that nuclear winter thing, its cold enough here.
GreyMoons, EMC was mostly developed by americans. Your machine is going to get you in your sleep
You are coming up with a lot of 'the mosts' with pretty lame reasoning.
well I havent heard of many other nations going to war with anyone recently.
and if you dont have a machine yet, my machines will get you in your sleep
Danimal-office: im not worryed, I live on a dead end street
your machines will just wizz on by and crash into the end of the street unable to stop
actually, my machines arent canadian, so they'll do it while you're awake because they arent pussy Canadians
GreyMoons, hardly, my ferror is like .0002"
TAKE IT OUT IN THE PARKING LOT
this is emc
first rule of fightemclub is don't talk about fightemclub
but yea i'll stop now. :P
yea, get oot and aboot, aye?
now it's just dead in here
yay for chef salad with chicken and egg and pepperoni
big plate of it
of all the free linux based CAD systems ( HeeksCad APT360 gCAD3d gCNCcam pyCAD mGCodeGenerator ) which have you tried? which do you like?
solidworks, and it's great lol
I was going to make enchiladas, but after going shopping I didnt feel like it
oh you said free
a lot of people whine about there not being anything, i think theres so many that its confusing
I like CSI Concepts, but thats for OSX or windows only
wait cad or cam?
gcad has a free 3d version?
both, or at least a tool chain that ends up executable on a cnc
so more of a cam... cad is strictly modeling, isnt it?
its cad & cam
brb, gotta reboot
was my computer supposed to turn into a toaster oven when I ran gcad3d?
aka, hold the power button to restart?
yay for vanilla icecream
grinding HSS is tough.
ruined a $3 36grit ziconia belt in like 1 5/8" bit just roughing it
still kinda works if you apply mad pressure but then you overheat the toolbit easily.
feels like an 80grit now and cuts like a 120grit
I probley need more SFM or something.. this belt sander is designed for wood.
oh well, some day i'll make that ultimate rotary machine iv been wanting to make for forever.
(D1-4 camlock spindle with wood lathe style ways for mounting of accessorys like tables or belt sander 'frames'
3600rpm spindle with VFD and backgear
basicly anything you wanna spin. grinding stones, sanding disks, diamond wheels
or slap a chuck on there and spin work for lathe sanding/fileing/whatever
or into back gear for welding tubing or whatever.
wood lathe ways = won't matter if I have to chip some splatter off.
cause nothings precision anyway
and the thing would have to be at least a couple 100lbs so that poorly balanced wire wheels and shit don't vibrate the thing like a harley davidson.
or bolted to the cement floor...
what cement floor
your lathe is not in a 'shop' ? or garage?
dont they usually have cement floors?
I would'nt call this cement... plus I rent.
meh. rent means nothing
what are a few holes in the ground... can fill them with putty before you leave :P
well ok plus I like to move stuff around as I buy more stuff.
I mean shit I gotta move my lathe outta the way if I wanna use the full capacity of my mill
course both are 1000lbs so thats not exactly easy but whatever
my lathe is also missing about 6" of bed length due to it being next to a wall, but whatever.
Its there if I ever need it..
and can be assed to move a 1000lb lathe to do the job.. :P
GreyMoons: cant find a larger place?
what's to stop you putting a grinding wheel on the wood lathe?
I'm into multifunction machines myself, until I learn the usually good reasons why not :)
itinerant machinists should get together and rent big workshops w bunkhouses. I've been trying to organise that with games programmers but no takers so far
gah my lead screw on X axis is bent :/
need that corrected :(
* elmo40 hands a mallet to MrSunshine
been adviced not to use a mallet =)
* GreyMoons hands MrSunshine a 1lb adjustment hammer
GreyMoons is now known as BlackMoon
cut out the bent part =)
and solder on new ones?
weld, i suppose...
No, crazy glue
true, cant heat it too much or it will bend even more! :-P
Wait, SILLY PUTTY!!!!!!!
nah. at least JB Weld it!
e-jones is now known as e-jones|away
just need to write G-code to match your lawn and hit cut.
gantry along the length, cylinder mower as wide. clockwork motor
roomba scooba, and the lawn version seems like overspecialisation to me. one machine should do all 3
I hope Honda are working on getting Asimo to do domestic chores
e-jones|away is now known as e-jones
[10:35:23] <JT-Dev> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSrJjg-nlB8
a happy bunny!
interesting noise during the tool change rotation
intresting indexing deal
isent that turret kinda in the way of doing any long work or using a tailstock?
pretty much so
no tailstock on these lathes
so your limited to like what, 4" long workpeice?
archivist the air motor?
something like that
yup, I thought I recognised an air motor
that kinda sucks.
but I assume your gonna have barfeed and make it fully automagic?
kinda seems like your giving up a lot for not much in return.
that's a chucking lathe
it's built with a completely different set of workpieces in mind than an engine lathe
well I can see that.
so why are you giving anything up when that's the purpose of the lathe to begin with
well just seems it would be a lot cooler with bar feed and workpeice removal.
but that's true of any lathe
Yea, but not quite as true without a toolchanger
cnc lathes without tool changers are a very tiny minority, though
I mean it just seems to me you might as well sit there and do most of the work or none of it.
because not all work warrants the fuss of complexity of automation like that
Yea I guess
95% of the lathe work i did was not suited to bar feeding
so out of six lathes, all "real" cnc lathes/turning centers, only one had a bar feed unit
and then it only gets you the front side
it saves a lot less work than people assume
I rarely do more than one of a part
bar feed in a sliding head with a second op spindle to do the back side is the next step
yep, if you have parts that don't require intermediary work as well
its hard to part the back side off perfictly :(
even if you use a right handed parting tool to prevent that blasted nub
and as long as you have parts in high enough quantity that not only justify the cost of said lathe, but also justify the additional setup complexity and tooling
some metal allways wants to get stuck beween the blade and work and scratch the finish
I dunno what you're doing but most turned parts require backworking
of some sort
so even if you part like moses at the red sea, you're gonna get screwed a lot of the time because the customer wants some dumbass feature on the back end
* BlackMoon scratchs barfeeder off the wishlist and puts a star next to lever based 5C collet chuck
an example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5I9KqJYQT0
don't get me wrong about barfeeders, i bar fed whenever I could, but it wasn't often
Man is that an awsome tool change head
multiple live tooling heads too? bastards.
I have an old sliding head lathe as base castings for a future project
probley has a whole grid of gears back there.
man friggen jellous of that tooling setup
really cool tool change setup, just everything bolted to plates nearby within a few inchs of rapid travel
another here makes two parts and screws them together http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzJHPWimizg
for one off parts would you normally face off the end then touch off?
the facing can be the touch off, just needs setting within reason
just trying to move my mindset from manual lathe to cnc lathe LOL
I had to rethink a bit too
JT-Dev, that's what i do
I face the end and call it z0 while the tool's sitting there
the rest of the tools Z offset would be from the master tool Z0?
that's how I do it.
T1's Z offset is 0, and then everything else is a +/- from that reference
I just dug out my cheap compressor, I ran it up to pressure when I bought it in about 2005-2006, it still has >100 psi in it
and X offset is from the centerline of the spindle
just make sure you have a work offset done first
instead of touching t1, you are touching g54 for z
so t1 has 0 offset in Z
yep, and g54 takes it instead.
ok, I think I got it :)
then you turn a little bit back and measure it, and that's your x offset
I did that last night, that is what I was doing in the vids
how do you set the X offset on a tool like a threading insert?
how i touch every tool - i only turn one diameter, and write that number down
then you can do two things
one is use paper, and come in until the paper is held between the tool tip and the diameter
or you can use sharpie or dykem to coat the turned diameter, and bring the tools in until they just break the marking fluid
zigzag rollies are pertty reliabley 0.001"
you're only going to be ballpark with either method because it doesn't replicate the actual machine cutting something
so you're always going to be a bit off.
ok, so after you get is close you can adjust from there
if you're doing very high precision work, just back the tool out .005" for your first pass
measure it, make your adjustment, and then subtract the .005"
if you're using tools that aren't so sharp (coated inserts, mostly) make it more than .005, take it out to .020 or something
the coated inserts like to take a deeper cut?
yes, because the "edge" is actually a small radius and you have to keep that radius submerged in metal
otherwise the insert tries to burnish the part somewhat and leaves a nasty finish
many inserts, general turning, etc, don't suffer from this too badly
they only have to have .005-.007 depth of cut
but I had a couple inserts that demanded .014 or more
or they'd just squeal
ok, I've seen that before on my manual lathe trying to take a thou or two off a part
yep, doesn't work without a polished or ground insert
which you can buy, uncoated
most aluminum inserts are that way, and there are SS finishing inserts as well that have a very high rake and are actually dead sharp
dead sharp on SS? weird./
iv not had any inserts that demand a deep cut... Unless you want a decent finish on mild steel of course.
but then I don't play with negative rake tooling
I need to find more information on the inserts... all I've used up to now are the triangle ones you get in cheap holder sets
yea iv expairmented a little with the diffrent sizes
the sandvik or kennametal catalogs are good places to go
the sharp diamonds are good for tight profileing
they have very detailed information about not only edge and toolholder geometry, but chipbreakers and what works on different metals
the 80 degree diamonds are good because they can face/turn in the same setup
or bore/face in a boring holder
I mainly use HSS threading bits myself mind you..
squares are good for the number of cutting edges you get
also, if you give them like a 20~45 degree lead angle, they make AWSOME roughers
because of the extra cutting edges and light lead/relief angle, you can really rough some deep cuts
* JT-Dev downloads and reads the kennametal catalog
also sanvik put out a manual, i forget what it's called, but it's the same size as machinery's handbook and goes into horrific depth about tool selection, wear, geometry, etc
it's a 1000 page desk reference type thing
I have one holder that uses a NPR type of insert I think
for general turning what shape insert is best?
I see DPGR VPGR NPGR
[11:52:23] <BlackMoon> http://www.kbctools.com/can/Navigation/NavPDF.cfm?PDFPage=247
there is none :)
its all a tradeoff beween how many cutting edges and rigidity and lead/etc angles
I need to print that out and paste it on the lathe
V and N are weirdo insert codes.
I try and stick to stuff on that chart as otherwise you might get stuck with some propritary insert
TCMT is the basic 'triangle' insert
you can basicly put any TCxx insert into a TCMT holder
you could also use TCMW but those have no chipbraker
I have a set of triangle insert holders
(Besides M, G is another common code if your trying to find parts, its a little more precise)
do not buy more accurate inserts
toastydeath: I think some things like aluminum inserts only come in G
because they are ground
that's because they have to be ground
but yea, unless your doing CNC stuff, don't bother spending extra bucks on accuracy
it is not worth the extra 4-5 bucks per insert to get inserts with a +/- .001 tolerance
JT-Dev: Id look into some square and rhombic holders
a square holder with a small lead angle can be great for heavy roughing, combined with 4 or 8 usable tips per insert
and the high rigidity of the square insert
but won't turn to a shoulder
hence more of a roughing deal.
a rhombic insert like the V style is so pointy you'd want to use it for nothing more then finishing, but you could make tight grooves with a pair of those holders
and the C rhombic holders are pertty common, reasonabley rigid and can face and turn without adjusting the angle of the tool holder
unfortualy due to the negative lead angle, they produce MUCH hotter chips then a square insert with a light lead angle
so your not gonna wanna rough serious steel with them
Im not really sure what the round inserts are good for besides chattering.. :P
Lots of cutting edge on a round insert though, 4~10 rotations..
aren't they for fine finishing?
MattyMatt: I guess... id think the over 1/4" IC are just too big though.
I'm just going on what I saw in a vid
likey make good form tools for plastics and such though
yea iv never played with the circle inserts, only square, triangle, rhombic
Im not a big fan of triangle inserts
I got one holder I use for facing cause it allways gives me a great finish in mild steel
but then, iv usally gotten good finish in mild steel facing
I do mild steel and aluminum mostly
what does the relief angle do?
iv got a set of 1/2" triangle holders I plan to give away to someone someday.
Basicly its feed rate verus rigidity
more relief angle lets you feed faster, but the insert could chip off easyer due to less support on the cutting tip
afaik, you'd only want 7 degrees unless your blazeing at mach 2 through plastics, or maybe aluminum
relief angle prevents the cutter from rubbing on the work as the cutter advances
ok, I see now
0 relief cutters HAVE to be used in a negative rake tool holder
and the negative rake of the tool holder sets up a relief on the cutting edge
IE any xNxx holder is negative rake
there are some odd negative rake inserts that actualy have a point on the tip thats posative rake, just to confuse things further. :P
if you are going to buy cheap tooling and toolholders, neutral toolholders are the way to go since you have cheap inserts
if you are buying from sandvik, kennametal, or some other real tooling company, go with negative toolholders
even on posative rake rhombic holders, you get 2 cutting edges per insert, and if you buy REAL inserts they will last through pounds of mild steel
you get more edges per insert, which are expensive to begin with, and the geometry of the inserts are molded so that the rake angles are positive in a negative toolholder.
all of the toolholders I use are negative
toastydeath: you can get posative negative inserts for some toolholders yes, but not all, and those style inserts usally cost a lot
by negative do you mean the lead angle?
uh, that's the dominant insert type on the market today
no, we are talking about rake angle
JT-Dev: no, rake
[12:08:41] <MattyMatt> http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-item.pl?DV03PUB13&2&SME
<-- this whole vid was freely viewable last month :p $280 for the DVD this month
a zero clearance, positive rake insert
is the dominant type of insert on the marker
nearly every machine shop uses nothing but those.
toastydeath: thats the first iv ever heard of it.. looking through the verious insert catalogs I have those seem to be the minority
and this is what i was alluding to, if you're going to go cheap, go with neutral toolholders
then you're not reading the catalog right
or you're looking at the wrong set of inserts instead of general turning
seems to be rather split beween standard 0 relief negative rake angle inserts and 7 degree relief inserts
[12:10:54] <BlackMoon> http://www.kbctools.com/can/Navigation/NavPDF.cfm?PDFPage=250
well find me the posative negative inserts
I only ever found a few.
[12:12:12] <BlackMoon> http://www.kbctools.com/can/Navigation/NavPDF.cfm?PDFPage=259
outta the first 15 pages
err 9 pages
and which shop do you work for?
but somehow I doubt the entire industry runs one style of insert when they account for maybe 1/20th the inserts sold by the major tool supplyer that I shop at.
Just a thought.
I'm not interested in arguing about what is actually being used, because I know what's the most prevalent type of tooling - if you cant' find it, that's not up to me, because i don't care what tooling you, personally, buy
some types may wear out quicker
toastydeath: And im saying if I can't find it, how the hell is it the most prevalent form of tooling?
where do they buy it? at the monthly stonecutters meeting?
great question - i have no interest in figuring out why you can't find it
I have an awnser: your full of bull.
if you don't believe me, that's equally unimportant to me
Well im glad we concluded we both no longer give a shit.
get a few different ones, and obtain some empirical data
MattyMatt: its pertty obvious what shapes of inserts are gonna take longer to wear and have more cutting edges and such.
problem is those inserts won't proform all jobs.
yeah that vid I watched got very complicated. I wish I'd ripped it now
Square inserts are the most durable, and give you the most cutting edges per insert
Unfortualy you can't turn up to a 90 degree shoulder because you have 0 relief if you tryed
80 degree rhombic can.. but you only get 2/4 cutting edges insted of 4/8
(Intrestingly, someone has designed endmills that can use the other 2 edges of rhombic inserts
and there are some holders that can hold them that way for turning
are square inserts the same price when they have 8 prepared points?
kinda weird but its good for roughing due to the light lead angle
MattyMatt: No its a totaly diffrent style
only negative rake (0 relief) inserts can have 8 cutting tips
because.. well, you have a angle on the side for relief
negative rake/0 relief will allways have the 8 tips, and posative rake 7+ degree relief inserts will only have 4 tips
(Exception being some obscure CBN/diamond inserts that may not have all tips populated with cbn/diamonds)
Other weird gotchas include you can buy diffrent thickness inserts for the same holder, and you can sometimes hold other style inserts with a diffrent style screw
like the only diff beween a TCMT and a HCMT is the countersink angle on the screw.
TCMT and TCMH
So one holder can actualy hold a whole varity of diffrent inserts -_-;
thankfuly out of the millions of possable codes, only a few dozen combonations commonly exist.
and only 2 or 3 on ebay :)
Shhh, don't tell people about ebay.
that servo belongs to ME, bitch :)
* BlackMoon scoots several underpriced 10pk insert boxes into the back of his tool chest
I mean I hope they get em at factory auctions and shit...
but I can only assume some are stolen at the price they go for..
but I still picture some dude sliping a pack into his socks every day at work :P
'Damn that fred, allways breaks 10+ inserts a job!'
'and when I go over to his stall, his insert is so chiped and dull it looks like hes been using it all week long!'
thanks a lot for all the info guys, it's off to work for me
yay 2 axes moving freely full travel. now just the table to sort out
I need bigger motors and pitchier screws tho. it's painfully slow
can't beat M8 for price tho :)
it'll do until I start earning
the nut is just a tapped piece of 2mm mild plate, held by loose screws. that seems to work fine
I don't think I'll ever mill metal on this machine, so I think belt driving the table is where I'll go, for speed
linear steppers look like the future tho
the bed is the stator
right, I'm off to tender for a building job. bbl
if I touch off in emc, is this touching the tool to the part?
it can be, or just a reference you know
because I touched it off, and when it went to cut, it went deep into the part
welcome to CNC machining
what would cause that offset?
some error usually cause by the user
how deep did it go? and how deep did you tell it to go?
when that has happened to me, it is because I told it to and it did what I said, rather than what I wanted.
cut some air to get your confidence up and code proved
tlab: this is a really good read http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems
tip 1) go slow for the first part
I made a spring loaded pen holder
tip 2) keep your hand on the stop/off/shutdown/selfdestruct button
are there any linux g-code viewers (other than what axis does)?
I tested my Oh Shit Button last night and it worked well :)
I have trouble remembering where the oh shit button is
not too long ago I had a tool fall out of the holder while trying to change tools in a haas mill
paint F1 red
my hand missed the emergency off button
I mean the big red button under my palm when I hit start program :)
big red button... you would think that it would be the easiest to press.. heh
hit the power off button instead
I have a big red e-stop button I haven't hooked up yet. I assume it should really cut A/C.
you should have them all around your knees, so if you even twitch funny it shuts down
my drive is opto, so I'll cut DC to that with mine
yea, mine drops out the phase converter and the main supply contactor and tells EMC that shit just hit the fan
I want a big red button for my rocket ignition switch
there's a cute usb one for that on thinkgeek
[13:25:55] <WalterN> http://www.instructables.com/image/FIKBFD3FGDRLYZN/remote-model-rocket-ignitor.jpg
though that seems a bit small
need a bigger switch for bigger rocket engines :D
maybe I could modify a breaker switch
through a relay
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:07:32] <BlackMoon> http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/IMZ/IMZ278/businessman-turning-giant_~bul0239.jpg
here ya go
man, do not photosearch for giant switch with safesearch off.
or Big Red Knob
LOL after all the discussion on inserts this morning I looked at the cheapy triangle ones I was using on my manual lathe and now understand why some worked and some didn't work so well :)
and why was that?
you can actualy get high grade cheapy triangle inserts btw
that will work MUCH better then the grizzly/horror freight inserts
I mean, they fall apart like someone pressed some ceramic and potmetal togethor
I havent really managed to damage any of my new kenmetal inserts in mild steel
at least, without doing something stupid like running the lathe backwards
not even really dull them infact.. though I only run a few 100sfm in mild steel
glad I've never run the spindle the wrong way
cradek: carbide + wrong way = lol
the insert just instantly fractures and a little bit flys off somewhere..
never to be seen again
yeah, I wouldn't know :-)
iv run a HSS threading bit backwards into a 0.1" shoulder.. and it form threaded it
ah you don't use a TNMG insert in a cheapo holder with no rake
did a decent job too, at least on the root, the crest was wayyy oversized and had tons of burrs :P
JT-Work: Yea TNMG won't work in a neutral holder, only a negative one
I know that now :)
unless your planing to burnish your work :)
no planning at all I guess
also you'll notice your insert holder has a relief cut into the seat for the insert
so I don't think you can even use other relief inserts in it.
iv seen the insert shift in cheapo triangle insert holders too
ie they may not all hold them securely against the ledge for indexing
[14:31:00] <JT-Work> http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMCTLG=00&PMAKA=73163586&partnerURL=http://catalogs.shoplocal.com/jlindustrial/index.aspxopagename=shopmainPcircularid=15384Pstoreid=1038424Ppagenumber=767Pjsessionid=Pmode=Pepcode=
those are good. iv heard clamp+pin are the best insert holding system
Iv only used pin holders mind you
what size toolholder do you use?
[14:35:09] <BlackMoon> http://www.tools4cheap.net/products.php?cat=26
Check these out for a beginner set
I got the 16mm set (5/8")
Who had the broken tap yesterday... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1646468678.html
[14:36:02] <BlackMoon> http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=carb7pc
then they sell this set :)
unless you wanna mill down shanks
slightly diffrent inserts then the 16mm set
the parting holder and threading holder are of questionable use
but the 4 rhomboic holders for $80 is a damn good deal IMO
I have a good parting tool and threading tools
Plus a trigon holder, whatever the hell that is.
good place to start
Yea I don't know maybe the threading/parting tool holder could be reperposed for something.
BlackMoon: i was just scrolling up. if you want 'good' inserts that last i highly suggest Iscar. They are expensive but damn good.
elmo40: all the 'big' names are damn good for HSM use
its just the horror freight ones that fall apart under normal use
[14:38:51] <BlackMoon> http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=carb7pclg
heres the set I got
havent used the boring bar yetm had to mill it down from like 23mm to 5/8"
no idea why it was 23mm tall. like 16mm tip height but 23mm shank lol
that rightmost square insert holder can rough SERIOUS steel
and the 45 degree one, well thats just damn handy for beveling things
(you can use the side of inserts as form tools if you don't make too wide a cut)
so like up to a 1/8" chamfer in steel you can do with the side of an insert
well got proof today, the screws for my mill is wrongly turned from the beginning no wonder it doesnt work good :/
I have a chamfer button on my lathe
0.2mm off center is the axis that goes out to move the table on :/
JT-Work: hah. :P
JT-Work: well ok you still could use those 4 rhombioc holders as a great starting point
those + triangle will let you figure out if you need anything more
just give the threading/parting tool to some poor noob
and figure out wtf to do with a trigon.
(the leftmost holder)
my boring bar uses trigon inserts
and don't be afraid to have some HSS blanks for whatever other tool forms you need
im sure trigon is a good insert.. its like, a 3 edged 80 degree rhombic
just looks weird.
BlackMoon: it was 23mm long? or wide?
I think it was made for a latren tool post or something
cause the cutting tip was at 16mm from the bottom
was easy enough to mill it down with a carbide insert endmill
Mr Sunshine. can you make the nut float radially?
I guess not it it's a lathe half-nut
33 years since I touched a lathe :) goddarned book larnin
add a steady rest for your leadscrew. :P
er sorry, follow rest
that or map the error out in software
bleh "Easily machined to accept different size spindles. " on an ad for motor couplings. why would you buy one if you could machine accurately?
I like these Oldham couplings. 2 dogs on each side, which are bought separately, and an acetal disk in between
when my drilling skills are improved I can make them and just buy the acetal disks which are cheap
damn, I've just seen a major flaw in my table drive. The leadscrew is held in bearings at one end, but by the motor at the other. When the leadscrew starts vibrating it's gonna yank the motor spindle
it's 1m long M8, so it's very floppy. It WILL vibrate
oh well, cheap motors and I have 1 spare :) Just Do It (tm)
put a bearing mount on the other side also
1m M8? ouch
the motor is inside the frame, so I'll need to make a sturdy box
it was always the plan anyway, to keep the motor outside the dust zone
yet inside the frame. this machine is oversized anyway for the work area :) and I'll probably have to move home when it's running 24/7 for a week
I think it'll fit through the door
maybe I should put long boxes at both ends and shorten the leadscrew, as the table travel is only ~450mm.
plywood is way stiffer than this M8
and a motor at each end, I've got a spare axis on the driver if the motors can't be paralleled on one
I'll loose the handwheel, but c'est la vie
what're you making such a long axis for?
it's just the way it's built. the table (500mm x 500mm) runs on 2 beams 1m long
so the only place to attach bearings & motors so far are the end plates
I can't attach anything to the beams without compromising their adjustability
strictly, if this was a ship, they aren't beams. beams go abeam
* MattyMatt asks WP what timbers that go fore-aft are called
seems like they're all called beams these days :)
arrr shiver me timbers
the table has an open bottomed box underneath it atm, but I don't think I need that much stiffness now I'm giving up the prospect of steel milling
heh - windows won't see a fubared hd - but linux will.
(it was a vista install)
(copying files off as we speak
I carried on using fat32 with XP for years until Linux was totally happy with ntfs
I've never used windows later than XP sp2. that's the sweet NT, like 98se is the pinnacle of 9x
OT: state of Pennsylvania has custom web app written with a MSFT add-in that is broken under i.e. 8
talk about getting your just rewards
they have. more pork barrel consultancy to upgrade it
sad thing is, it really doesn't need that app
you can't win with web apps. This is why VMs are so popular, so each app can have its own version of php/java/apache/mysql/whatever
It thought it was supposed to be not-broken under IE, and broken under everything else..
* bill2or3 shrugs.
supposedly it works under i.e. 6 and 7
I don't have a computer that is running those versions handy
here, borrow my thinkpad :)
bought in pieces on ebay, with XP pro licence on every one
It took 4 attempts to get enough bits for one whole machine
I got the wrong model once, so I've got a W2K licence too
so, 8 years cpus have been stuck around 2Ghz now
true, but they are faster
yeah, and 12 core
if amd are actually shipping that. the ones in their compo prize may be lab samples
12 core would be impressive, don't know if it helps anything though
48 cores in the prize :) 4 chips + mobo
[17:49:44] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/TPnCOoAzT/
yeeey perfect fit now
:) I've never seen grub screws between the teeth like that
I have, seems logical to go there =)
cant vait until Its all done
mine is 2/3 working
mine is 90% done mechanical just need to fix the tracks
then its assembly assembly and assembly
NEMA34 is huge btw :P
there's a cheap old one going on ebay.co.uk in an hour or two. 6 wire tho
no need :P
10gbp tempted to bid anyway, but I wont
you get a nice work out with 2 steppers in each hand and doing some crunches :P
if it was double shafted I would, so I could belt-drive my table
if it doesn't sit in the middle, my machine would tip over :)
is there a chkdsk like utillity in ubuntu?
fsdk I think
[18:06:59] <MattyMatt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fsck
as in "my drive is fscked"
frallzor: that gear is brass?
and dd ofs=/dev/null (with params for whole drive) will do a surface scan
must be the light... looks goldish in colour
wouldnt use brass for a pinion like this
I like my acetal thrust disc on my ballscrew drive. It'll shear before I damage the ballscrew
takes a good amount to damage a ballscrew.
although that's not a major concern with 0.4Nm motor
ACME thread, on the other hand... rather weak stuff.
they were cheap :)
this project started as a way to recycle dead printers
pen plotter? laser? foam cutter?
It'll handle wood OK, I think
at 0.010" passes...
and I'll keep upgrading it so it'll do alu&brass at least
using wood for the frame?
I'll upgrade that, or reinforce it
weakest part atm is the flex in the Z nose
[18:18:20] <MattyMatt> http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8894/p1010050vb.jpg
only recent one, before I attached the electrics to the left side
does that ibm run an rt linux kernel?
it would run minix if both floppies work
it runs rt dos 3.1:)
didnt know mint/minnix needed 2 floppies
I might put a mini-itx or sth in it
P.S. Proxxon > Dremel, by a lot.
both floppies are broken, but I bet there's enough bits to make 1, if I felt like it
my 'dremel' is a 20gbp Draper thing. I've already had to repair it once and I've not started milling yet
so cheap it's consumable, and I can buy them in town
ries_ is now known as ries
Well, if you need something with less runout, proxxon is great.
ya, runout on those demels is horrible
isn't proxxon a lot larger?
I could fit better skate bearings if I had the urge
nice travel distance, though
I think mine does about 20krpm before it starts to rattle
proxxon is a bit larger, but just a bit.
talking the pro grinder?
I should use my dremel flex shaft more
yeah, travel was dictated by the slides I used :) I've got ~12" travel but I've got 7.5" clearance, so I can drill 5" into the table
probably too high for a wood router, but that height will be handy for foam etc
I need to stiffen the Z tho, before I even try it on wood
reprap has given me ideas about extruders & other additive methods. that influence my decision to make it so high
reprap would be a lot further along if they had just scanned cnczone for a couple of days
they are stuck in the mindset I started with. dot matrix printers
I came here and started wanting to make steel chips :)
that's too far for me right now tho. wood is my compromise
making bits for this machine is what I want a machine shop for
rinse, repeat. :-)
doesnt reprap drop the work surface & keep tool's vertical posn static?
the first rev did, but the 'mendel' moves the extruder.
the first one did. the second one ...ah what bill2or3 said
they figured out they should but the heavy parts at the bottom. :-)
it works best with a heated table and hot air blowing. it'd be easier to build it in an oven
...but I cant have an oven in my office.
my current repstrap project's primary design goal is "pretty enough to be wife approved"
don't wives approve of ovens?
not outside of the kitchen.
besides, the heated-bed is a reasonably elegant solution.
I'll probably make one, when I find that Ineed it.
and the constant hairdryer?
perhaps something quieter.
my frame is square, so enclosing it wouldn't be a big deal, if needed.
putting the extruder on a robot arm would look best, IMO
and you could have several around the work area
I'm thinking about putting it on an inverted-J shaped mount, and sliding the entire 'arm' up&down on a linear slide.
that way when it's not in use it'll be short, and theree wont be any extra parts showing.
good plan, I've already considered that myself
I'll let you know how wobbly it turns out to be. :-)
there are 3d printers that need to drop the workpiece, such as the evil mad scientist's sugar 3d printer
I have a good idea. I'd use the same drawer slides I'm using for this
candyfab \o/ :)
I looked at the reprap for 30 minutes and didn't quite figure out the extruder
it's just a hot nozzle for squirting out melted plastic.
it pushes a 3mm filament through a heated 0.3~0.5mm nozzle
which is apparently harder than it sounds.
what's pushing the plastic?
driven by a stepper?
almost universally stepper now, but some were geared hobby motor originally
all the cool-kids use steppers.
* bill2or3 foods.
the extruder I'm thinking of for my machine is those mastic syringes.
you can get electric mastic guns already
which is just sheer bloody lazy for mastic. squeezing the handles isn't hard labour
I beg to differ
the problem is if you get tired and want to stop, the mastic doesn't stop
I allow it. I've never used a whole tube in one go :)
well, I've had to stop just because my hand got tired
what is mastic?
brick sealant. you can get glue and silicone in the same tubes
although in the U.S. it's specifically a weak caulk-like glue
yeah if you think squeezing the handle isn't tiring, you haven't done much of it
yeah like runny putty is what we call mastic
no 'like' I bet that's exactly what it is
I may start with an electric grease gun, although disposable tubes is cleaner
I'll probably have to print a layer, wait for cure, repeat
heated plastic extruder can go as quick as you like
they've got hdpe, polypropylene, abs, and a low melting point test plastic working
nylon is tricky to extrude apparently
Enco 20% off, PSV16
acetal, that's one that would be useful
printing nylon would be sweet tho
and glass-loaded abs, for other insulators & connectors
they would both need a high pressure extruder tho, because they are non newtonian fluids when melted
they already tried printing solder. it doesn't set quickly enough
use this piezo as a feed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inchworm_motor
I suggested a needle valve for a solder dripper
that inchworm looks perfect :) link posted in #reprap. want credit?
heh sure, thanks, odd nobody thought of that
we used piezo fans on z-80 systems, way back, thats when i head of the inchworm
you used fans on z80s?
mine were lucky to get a heatsink on the 7805
hmm electric half nuts separated by a solenoid = big electro-mechanical inchworm on stock threaded rod
or 6 disposable piezo lighters, and some superglue
sure, the cabinet needed fans on the peripheral drivers... sprague drivers now called 2803 etc, can be quite a bit of current
the threaded rod idea is 'like' a hirth gear tho, the inchworm is very maybe in positioning
this is a hirth gear indexer, the ridged rings are set for the degree minute and second desired, then the rings are clamped together... NASA loved these things http://www.imperialnewbould.com/indexer.htm
I want to run a motif app that only works with 8bit visuals
atmega: vncserver with depth 8
cradek: the app runs on OpenVMS(tm), my local X server will only do 8bit if it uses a remote window manager... getting VMS to run mwm remotely is seemingly impossible.
what do you mean local X server will only do 8 bit if it uses a remote window manager?
the X server runs and displays windows, but they are unmanaged
so, you can't move them or do anything useful
surely twm can still work in 8 bit
tom3p, is the hirth gear the proper description of a squiggle motor?
probably, but the only WM available is mwm
ok, I'll stop helping now :-)
it would probably be workable if the users were running *nix instead of windows, or if the windows X server was less lame.
or if the VMS app sucked less
run windows in 8 bit. will that help?
maybe, but that would be harder to explain than anything else.
it may force the X server to be wholly 8 bit
it would still need the remote window manager
ah, if this is Users then they're probably running glossy Vista themes that'll look terrible in 8 bit
MattyMatt: no, a hirth gear is a rack device, that meshes very accurately, used to place elements. has no motive element. a squiggle motor is a description of the piezo i posted. hirths are usually used for super accurate angular positioning.
As used by Campagnolo in their very expensive cranks.
[20:22:12] <andypugh> http://mywheelsandmore.com/bicycleParts/campagnolo/HirthJoint-Ultra-TorqueCrankset.htm
andypugh: i dont know why campy would need <1 arcseconds repeatability. i've read that about their cranks.
It would make a good basis for a lathe toolchanger.
(bigger, of course)
andypugh, ever look at some of the manual front hubs off 4wd trucks?
I always thought those would make good alignment dogs for a turret.
PCW_ is now known as PCW
numen_ is now known as numen
when I press a button connected to halui.program.run I get this error "can't do that (EMC_TASK_PLAN_RUN) in manual mode. I'm not in the MDI window...
hmm, halui.mode.auto must be on...
and halui.mode.is-auto must be on
i was going to connect the halui auto pin to the run button as well
to see if i can get around that
but i used my run button for something else so i never got to try it lol
you can have both halui.program.manual and halui.program.auto both on at the same time
yea you need to
I guess I don't know everything that I don't know about that yet :0
hook up halui.mode.auto to your run button and halui.program.run pins and see if it works
and let me know if it works because thats how i was going to do it eventually lol
it only worked once
maybe it needs a delay before the mod.auto and the program.run
the halui.mode.is-auto must be on and it seems to only come on when you transition from halui.mode.auto off to on
nope must be some other secret decoder ring combination
JT-Hardinge: use an and2
well it can probably be done easily in ladder
connect halui.mode.is-auto and the run pin
and connect that to run
thats what i was gunna say but alex_joni types faster than i
you must not chicken peck like me
have both halui.mode.is-auto and halui.program.run on the same signal?
JT-Hardinge: you have a button.. right?
that goes to halui.mode.auto
it also goes to and2.in0
yes a physical button
halui.mode.is-auto goes to and2.in1
and2.out goes to halui.*.run
I don't understand the need for the and2
so you only request the run when you're sure that emc2 is in auto mode
what puts EMC in auto mode?
i dont think you need it.... cant you just have a seperate signal for the mode.is-auto and program.run?
the first connection
button that goes to halui.mode.auto
ok so if something prevents the is-auto then don't turn on the program.run
have one connection for the button and halui.mode.auto, and have another connection to connect halui.mode.is_auto to halui.program.run
is-auto is an output from halui stating that emc2 is in auto mode
aa-danimal-shop: that won't be nice
as soon as you switch to auto (for example you start AXIS)
your program will run
sometimes i'm slow :)
(most of the time)
yea, meeeee too Dan
there's no rush
my birthday is coming up, what should I buy for myself?
[22:03:30] <WalterN> http://www.saberknifestore.com/ProChef
blendtec blender, or a nokia N900
whatever makes you happy
remember to be able to afford it
one of those three, but not sure which one
can only afford one in that list :/
archivist has a point
you can then build any of the others ;)
I have enough projects going right now :P
although the N900 you could mill probably would only look pretty
# External Program Run Button
net program-run-btn halui.mode.auto <= hm2_5i20.0.gpio.031.in_not
net program-run-btn and2.2.in0
net program-is-auto and2.2.in1 <= halui.mode.is-auto
net remote-prg-run halui.program.run <= and2.2.out
I see all three come on but nothing happens
does remote-prg-run come on?
then I get the can't do that error cause your in manual mode
hmm.. that's odd
you mean halui.program.run yes
and mode.is-auto and mode.auto
on the bright side the halui.program.pause button does work :)
the run button in axis is depressed after the last try
I pressed the stop button and axis locked up
remember these are all momentary buttons
let me try again after saving my hal file :/
* JT-Hardinge smacks his head on the band saw... the only thing close
not too hard, it would be a shame to lose the band saw
nope still no movement
it is a nice bandsaw
try it by hand first
(check if it's in auto mode)
the run button is depessed
auto = off is-auto = on
If I press the stop button in axis it locked up again
JT-Hardinge: just for testing.. start one of the halui sample configs
the run button from axis will not start the program so something is wrong
see if that works ok (I'm sure it used to)
* JT-Hardinge smacks his head on the nice shinny air compress while he opens the valve so the first line of the test program can complete the tool change
alex_joni: it works now... I can't wait for my new air valves to show up so I can leave the compressor on all the time
it was sitting there waiting for a tool change to complete
* JT-Hardinge wished there was a better way to abort the tool change and stop the program
so for my pause button I need to and is-paused to resume
JT... what hardinge you have??
Hardinge CHNC I lathe
i liked them alot
as with the CHNC II
[22:25:23] <JT-Hardinge> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSrJjg-nlB8
just getting things moving
Super precision... i only have a manual 2nd op lathe... im retrofitting 1 of my 2 cross-slides
but still a super precision hardinge headstock... me and my son brought it downstairs into the basement... I hope i never move...
LOL I can imagine
we moved the CHNC I in here with comealongs and magic
about 750 lbs once you strip it to headstock and way..
this one is about 4500Lbs
it'll take comealongs ang a sky hook to get it back up the stairs... gravity was free on the way down
hmm my hardinge was only 2500lbs
I need to set up my pwm board so i can get the vfd a following signal
but the control was another 800
alex_joni: how hard would it be to disable the feed override slider in Axis and use only a remote input?
JT-Hardinge: probably not very hard
just hide the slider in tk
and configure in HAL
I have a selector switch that gives me in binary 0 - 12
and would like to have that as the only feed override input
Much too late but I think that you do need to connect both of those pins to the run button.
Is there a way to run a whole .ngc file by pressing a pyvcp button.
(Short term I just want some buttons that do M6T1G43, M6T2G43 etc....)
Press Here --> [Super Magic Button #1]
it didn't work. :)
Odd, it worked for me.
MDI_COMMAND = G0 X0 Y0 Z0
or what you want
OH DAMN! wheres a video bin????
Yes, I recall I have some of those, but have forgotten how to call them :-)
the mdi command?
Yes, that looks ideal.
(I put the lines in the HAL, then forgot what they were for)
* JT-Hardinge wonders why that is not in the manual where he expects it to be
that's neat. What's <call>?
not a keypress...
I bet THAT's in the manual. I'll just look.
# MDI commands
look for o-words
# rapid to home button
net remote-rapid-home halui.mdi-command-00 <= pyvcp.rapid-to-home
ah very cool.
EMC does everything... why would ANYONE use Mach?
I used to
for 3 years
because windows is "safer" for some people
they dont want to venture off into the unknown that is linux
yeah, good point.
they have been "conditioned"
For me it was a somple matter of Linux being harder to "find", and I didn't know it had a machine controller.
i didnt know linux at all, and i was planning on using mach, but it seemed like emc was more capable and i would probably want that in the long run, so i went with emc
i had never used or even seen linux before i got emc
what's a linux? :)
HE HAS THE LINUX!
thats the herpes
Nor had I, but given a choice of getting something non Apple for the first time the choice between free and Free and expensive + Windows was easy.
finally found it
yeah that's what I found in the integrator's manual
Sorry, I found it with a search for MDI_COMMAND in the Linuxcnc.org front-page search box a while ago.
Everytime I had a Mach question about a "missing" canned cycle or function, the answer was always "well, you write a script..."
Though I found the similar page at http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_halui.html
I don't WANT to write scripts, or wouldn't I write my own controller?
But that doesn't suggest that you can use an O<call> in that line. If you can then that opens up a whole new world of fun.
you know... at first i thought buying a 3 jaw juck to mount flat down on my mill table was going to be a waste of money for 1 part, but i use that thing almost daily for something
it saved my ass again today
haha yeah aa- , they're a great tool even without a rotary table.
i picked one up for $35 here also, and its rather useful
yea, i got like an 8 inch chuck, it's great
good night gracie
hows the mill coming skunkworks
is there a way to have emc ignore a toolchange command if the tool is already in the spindle?
i hate it when it travels all the way to the toolchange position if the tool is already in the spindle
dad is welding up the electrical box as we speak
cool, are you all done with the servo mounting?
most of the parts are done.. Still fiddling.
how much longer do you suppose?
y will be direct coupled - x and z will be belt driven
to early to tell, huh
month or 2 I think
I was soreley tempted to buy an olde mill from eBay today
[23:12:23] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270544165380
I was just not entirely sure I have the space. Or the means of shifting it.
Or the budget to CNC it
looks like a brute!
I think it is quite small
I like the spindle slide design.
Pretty sure it is one of these
[23:14:22] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/pallas/page5.html
this box is too small to get everything in. So we are making it twice as big. (we have 2 identical boxes)
[23:15:13] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/mainelectricalbox.JPG
You could mount as much again on the inside of the door....
Those mains incomers are terrifying!
Don't tell me it runs of 120V?
Does anyone know if the Tormach PCNC machines are any good?
Do you have 440V 3-Phase in industrial use over there?
here? no - but in normal factories - yes
440 is to scary for us.. ;)
i've set up machines with 220 230 240 360 380 440 500 in USA, the higher the steadier imo
looks good skunkworks
Damm good jerky wish you were here Dan :)
yea me too! you should have sent some with the processors! lol
I was out at that time LOL
Anyone looking for a probe? I have found one badly-advertised on eBay (needs a stylus, ISO40 shank) £20
a hundred bucks for a good labeler is a good investment on rewiring a cabinet like that... loose one drafting tape label costs 1 hour or about ... a good chunk of the good labelers cost
opps, i knoew i forgot something
where the eltrical box used to attach.. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/ratsnest.JPG
need to woop some wire behave on it LOL
heh - yes
cradek: Ever heard of these guys? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq4DsqiW2DI
'The current' radio station was playing them. I like it. (minnesota public radio has a actual music radio station) ;)
What's the way to call a sub from the MDI window? I always get "File not open"
Hi guys.... I just added a step by step instruction page on going from bare metal to a working EMC2 on an Atom dual core board with Ubuntu 9.1 SMP http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Ubuntu91
The formatting is not yet complete to make it look pretty, but it is getting there. I'll try and clean up the formatting tonight still.
I want to add a .config file in a link in the wiki but how do I get the file onto the wiki server? I have a server I can put the file on and externally link it but it would make sense to put it on the wiki server and link to it directly. My server has been running for 6+ years but you never know...
Uh.... ok. I thought that I read that?? Perhaps not! ;-)
Dave911, cool, I want to compare my .config to yours
JT-Hardinge: I think you might have answered the wrong question?
non-wiki file upload
I can't see it on the basics page...
It tells you haw to use an uploaded file, but not how to upload it, I think.
(Though I am very good at thinking I am reading stuff when in fact I am scanning and not seeing things that are there because I know they are not there)