w00t! I just moved my first axis :)
Is TWM the UI where you have to mouse an arc on the window corner to resize?
Kirk_Wallace it was a long time ago I remember hitting the tab key a lot
my favorite lightweight WM is WindowMaker
MattyMatt: So, you are no longer a vir.... an EMC2 newbie?
Kirk_Wallace I thnk that happens after you cut your first part no?
I'm no longer an infant. I got hairs but I haven't made my first cut yet
gotta set up a vidcam for that
MattyMatt yeah what kinds of speeds are you getting?
congrats MattyMatt !
I just tested with 30mm/s, but gravity was assisting because the machine's on its side
nice and quiet, but it's my ballscrew axis, the others are allthread
not quiet enough for further testing tonight :) it's gone midnight
MattyMatt I always work on stuff late at nite i remember once i built a power supply and had to fire it up before i went to bed and the thing blew up
momma's house. wooden room, no fire extinguisher
MattyMatt I never knew how loud TO-220 packags were when they exploded!
3 AM and it was like I was setting off fireworks in my house!
when I have my own house, there will be explosions ..oh yes
no you don't ever want explosions in your house now when i do initial power ups of power supplies i do them outside at the ends of long extension cords
strong walls, light roof
it's good for earthquakes and tonados too :)
I need strong walls for the gantries in every room
I think i still have the incorect data packages for those regulators lying around someplace here
MattyMatt: You will need to make something nice for your mother with the CNC, maybe engrave a sign?
there was nothing left on the board but the center tab legs
the rest of the packages vaporized
she runs an antique shop off stuff she gets cheap at auctions. I have to get fancy to compete with the carvings she gets
plenty of inspiration off that 19th C furniture
you'll need to make one of those laser point cloud 3D scannerthings
pfred1, I think your math was bad. like more than a factor of 10
clytle374 with what?
I watn to make one of those, but the software part seems hard.
pfred1: I'm gonna do that with my machine. no laser just a slit of light and a fixed camera
um, probably the vaporized components
clytle374 no the blister packs had the inputs and output legs reversed on them
fluorescent tube will work as well as a laser
I'll arrange the slit so it can be opened to use the light as a worklight
bill2or3 I've seen some websites with people who have made homemade ones
bill2or3: I'll do the software. the tricky bit is getting a cam with enough res that I don't need to scan across the table
by 'across the table' you mean "from far away" ?
I think there's a quickcam that does 1280*1024, or maybe a 'real' camera with chdk firmware on it would work.
no I mean attaching cam to X motion and doing a 2d scan. slow and extra complicated software
even 1280 pixels across 14" isn't much
I was thinking about using a rotary table, and a stationary camera.
* bill2or3 runs off.
yeah that was an old plan of mine, but I've got a 3d table now :)
I can use it as a mini film set and everything
it loks like there's two software projects for 3D scanners to me maybe one and the other is the libeary for it
[00:22:12] <pfred1> http://cadauno.sourceforge.net/
3d point clouds are tricky. if you know it's a solid surface the software is much easier
MattyMatt even easier with sourceforge :)
when I said "I'll do" the software, I didn't necessarily mean I'd start from scratch :)
so far all I'm seeing here is a windows exe though no code
I was wearing my sys analysis hat
ah its under develop
[00:27:39] <pfred1> http://cadauno.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/cadauno/CADauno.JPG?revision=6&view=markup
I will start one from scratch tho, because it'll need a GUI and it'll probably run it through emc
looks like a pretty good start to me if not a working setup
a library to convert the point cloud into polys will be handy
or nurbs is good, they can go directly into gcode
it does seem awfully light on documentation
if I have to scan 2d though, I might as well use a depth probe
light documentation is a common failing with FOSS
I've heard developers say the same thing about MS.
msdn is pretty good
but hard to get into, and find when you're panicking :)
MattyMatt don't run your pacemaker with M$ products
I wouldn't run my ATM on them :)
but banks are stupid, we all know that now
MattyMatt now that would be cause for panic
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
nice upgrade project http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cadet-CNC-Lathe-for-spares-or-repair_W0QQitemZ280476439875
"swing over bed" is that radius or diameter?
I think in england it used to refer to radius
I read british quote radius usually
not so sure if even they still go with that though
yeah, only 9 zeros in billions these days :)
we still say colour and theatre though
* pfred1 speaks American ...
english is FOSS language
really I htink its because the English were weak and lots of different people overran them over the years
that's what it was. they lured us in and now we eat curry
yes they do have the biggest mosque in the world in england now don't they?
and corn snacks :)
and potatoes, but the spanish got the gold
it was the largest. I expect there are bigger in Dubai these days
still funny place for a big mosque if yo uask me
you'd think the arabs would be thankful for all those straight borders we gave them. easy to patrol
* pfred1 admires his latest PCB art
its like a Picasso!
I used to doodle in the corners, when I made them with a pen :)
I used to use that rat shack rub on stuff years ago
it saves the etchant :)
some etchants are regenerative and copper makes them stronger
yeah I used the transfers for dip pads
the next batch I'm going to try is supposed to be that way
I was looking at boards today and photo resist boards have really come down in price
and perfboard has really gone up
this board is so cool I'd like to etch it
I'm gonna try milling next
nah that doesn't interest me in the least I think its a bad idea
copper mills like crap its so stringy
you're mostly milling the board, as the copper is so thin
yeah there's that too
that's a good thing, IMO
in any event i don't see myself ever doing it
nah fiberglass is horrible stuff to machine
if you don't go into the fibres, it's just resin+filler
sort of boards I'm interested in making milling can't achieve that sort of resolution
anyway it looks good on video
heh youtube videos?
lord knows whats going on in them
sable maker's site
yeah tracks are getting finer, but if I wanted really fine I'd order one through plated
I suppose i could buy everything i wanted
lord knows there's enough break out boards out there for sale lots better than what I'm making too
phew! finally get to take a break
what's the topic of the evening?
Danimal-office was milling PCBs
Danimal-office want to see my reversed board art?
I think I can run my machine off the one parport, if 4 limit switches is enough
MattyMatt you don't have to have any limit switches
sure, although i really dont know much about what i'm looking at
i'm only a machinist :)
Danimal-office don't need to can just appreciate how clean it is :) http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/567/ppbbr4brdr.png
pfred1: that's good :) because I ain't got them yet. I do want a machine I can leave alone for 5 minutes though
MattyMatt you can set soft limits in emc
Danimal-office I color some signals so when I'm siring it up I can follow them easier
Danimal-office usually when I make a board i do all the grounds then all the hots than all the other junk
it has worked for me
i wanna make an isolated output board
this one has all the outputs isolated
well OK just 4 ofthem i didn't want to throw another opto on it
ls245 isn't really isolation, unless you get 5V from the hot side
MattyMatt yeah htose are the outputs the inputs are optoed
MattyMatt and the outs go to optos so ....
although i can buy one cheaper than i can make one
PCW_ is now known as PCW
MattyMatt its sort of silly to have optos driving optos don't tou think?
it depends which wire shorts :)
i think PCW is going to have a big sale on 7i37's. perhaps 50% off
Danimal-office you don't run off parallel ports do you?
yeah i didn't think so
ls373 instead and you could implement the whole parport
MattyMatt I wanted higher source and sink currents
i/o address decoding is trivial, on the pci bus
MattyMatt 245s are 24 ma
I thought all TTL was roughly the same
look at what a 245 does it has to offer something you know?
no its higher than most other chips
14 ma is typical current fot TTL
245s are dumb chips they spent too much time pumping up at the gym!
TI ls373 can sink 24ma too
isn't is a D latch though?
i can bench 24ma
yep, which is what you need to actually implement the parport
yeah i just want a buffer
I don't want the data latched ever
all it does is boost the current capacity of the port
up to proper spec :) in the old days the spec was 20ma
MattyMatt you do realize that they haven't put 373s into PCs in about 20 years now right?
there was never a spec
tday you're lucky if you get 3 ma out of a parallel port
yes there was, centronics
my buffer draws .00045ua
or something silly like that i forget now
its ua i remember that
20ma was needed to drive the coil on a teletype
tom3p and 20 ma went out with the teletype too!
I've got a PC portable to restore. looks like both floppies are broken though
tom3p I did a lot of reading about parallel ports and the more i read the more concerned I got
nothing today guarantees much more than 3 ma out on ports it seems
it saves power :) all the inputs are cmos
look at 8255 cards like http://www.futurlec.com/PCI8255.shtml
I got a few of those ICs hanging around
PIOs aren't they?
a buck a point
yep 'like' z80 pio
write cmd, write data pull trigger
yeah i was always partial to the Z-80
z80 had a more advanced one :D
got a bunch of them too
think i have a jap 16 MHz one someplace
which nobody bought of course, along with their DMA and interrupt managers
I got a whole tube of 8251s
I'll get those are in modern z80 clones tho
oh its a UART
not much call for those I suppose
I'd rather use ls373 myself. 40 pin dips are a lot of board space
plus they'd degrade 8 bits at a time
the 8255 you could multiplex 3 busses
least i think thats what it did
yeah you get 24 bits
which would be handy for memory decoding or some such
all I know is I got a heck of a lot less 8255s than 8251s
you'd have to decode the 0x2F8 etc with gates
when i built memory decoders I'd strobe counters
and decide where LPT3 & 4 are going to go :) I think there's a common choice already
that way you just built a counte up to top of memory then strobeed int oit for any address
decode the whole thing in one shot
they put the port addresses in the bios now right?
yeah for the mobo port
usually a choice of 2F8 or 3F8
wouldn't the bios grab the peripheral info at boot?
aka LPT1 & 2
mine seems to like to probe the whole system then
the bios would be unaware of extra ports, unless you put a boot eprom on the board
bitches whenever anything is different too!
5 in and 11 out is awkward for ls373. 4 inputs would make it easier
12 out isn't it?
dunno :) when I was up to date, the strobe pulse was generated by a timer chip
least EMC seems to think it can use 12 outs
I haven't tried them all myself so I don't really know
centronics only had 11, but IBM could have added one
well I went with the pin out page in an EMC manual and built my buffer to match it
I'll let you know how it goes
they totally rearranged the DB25 from the common one which used a ribbon
I'm using a riser out of a PC for my DB-25
just cut the double header off it and will solder the wires direct
I got a really nice yamaichi locking connector but figure why use it?
I don't need a breakout box thanks to hal-config
me either thats why I called my circuit a buffer board
you could get power from a usb port
MattyMatt sure but then what'd I do with all of my 7805s?
does anyone multiplex a single parport? using a few lines as addresses?
would emc2 support that?
I don't know of anyone doing more than one line to double the number of I/Os
yeah if they need more the trend seems to be to get a mesa board
and yes, EMC2 does support it, either with a somewhat slower read rate (using a flip-flop to swap between the two ports before reading), or by making some trivial additions to the parport driver
yeah. at $79 for the cheapest 7i43, it's hard to justify much work to make a dumb parallel port have more inputs
I'm more interested in more inputs first, so I can have more sensors etc
I might have to look into making a design for a controller card someday
yeah mesa is probably the way to go
if you need that much IO
although usb is probably the future, at my end of the scale
if you value your time at roughly zero, then Mesa isn't worth it
I'm not running coolant pumps or motoer VFDs
if you value your time at anything approaching a dollar an hour or more, then you might as well buy something
SWPadnos I only do CNC to kill time its a hobby
in that case it can be fun to design stuff yourself
SWPadnos I'm not very good at golf
and it's too expensive anyway ;)
I want temp sensors, jog wheels, more than 4 error switches etc
MattyMatt you wire limits in series
as long as you don't care about realtime inputs, USB is fine
note that jogwheels work much better in RT than they do in userspace
USB is apparently v low latency
or is it parallel? either way yo uget more than one a line
for pure input, it's not too bad, but "low latency" is relative
USB3 I mean
oh. well good luck with that
compared to 2, which can use a lot of cpu
there's no RT driver for USB is there?
someone was working on a RT-USB driver, but I think it stalled some time ago
SWPadnos thats a no in my book
CPU usage and latency are not relevant to one another
I think the RT parts would have to run on the far side of the USB link
yes, so you're then building a computer to run HAL
so you might as well buy a small computer to run HAL instead
yeah I've thought about it that way myself
and then you can use any handy laptop to manage it
like the $80 atom mini-ITX board people like so much
and you can use your laptop to manage it over the network
with remote desktop, remote X, or NML over ethernet
I like how EMC does it now
there's no need to run the user interface on the same PC as the motion control
can't find too many good laptops in the trash yet
and with a fully loaded PC costing $200 or so, there isn't much need to make a single-use USB peripheral, IMO
(that's $200 for all new parts, in a relatively small form factor)
I'm thinking of selling a hobbyist machine, with all the high power wiring inside
like I said, good luck with that. I don't think designing for USB3 will be all that easy
MattyMatt take it from a hobbyist we'd rahter make our own machines
USB4 hi-speed is hard enough
that would have to be usb & ethernet, even a single parport is a bit primitive
pfred1, it depends what hobby :) cakeCAD ftw
I saw a quilting machine on cnczone
MattyMatt cake decorators would rather do it by hand
I'll find a market somewhere
personally I don't deal with people that appear to be supporting their hobby through small businesses
I'm a long way off making machines to sell :) nobody would buy a mk1
I'm a long way off from giving away any of my plans
but hopefully someday I'll be able to
because the freebie plans i have seen all are pretty poor
except mechmate of course
and I've looked at a lot ofthem
name sounds familiar can't remember them giving anything away though
solsyla's look like the best for $35, but they assume your local hardware store is still all inches
of course it is
but $35 isn't free
it would be worth it. their machines are nicely thought out
I stole one or two hints from their photos
I'm not paying anyone for their thoughts
sweat maybe if i need more than i can supply
mechmate is the big steel gantry like frallzor's
oh mechmate requires registration must be why I never checked it out
my design is still fluid, if the table is too slow I'll convert it to belt drive
I'll find that out tomorrow
I'm going moving table moving gantry it too hard without the right linear slides
yeah that was my thought too
moving gantry does take less space tho
space i got
acres of the stuff
yeah but you'll find no nice linear slides on any of them I'm afraid
get a 6 legged john deere and put a spindle on its nose :) then run gcode2gps
I sort of look forward to mowing the lawn in season its a nice break
get ot just sit there for a few hours you know? and it still looks like I'm doing something
lawns do very little for me
you need them for kids to play on
they keep my property from blowing away and my value up too
I got woodlot too but you can't live in the woods you know?
it makes your house mold up
there was a beautiful wooden house built in an English wood about 10ya, dunno how it survived
I need the lawn to keep ctirrers back somewhat
massive regular chemical applications I'll bet. very green
ah yes, field of fire :) less ricochet than flagstones
woods crawling with all sorts of god knows what
my snakes clomb trees
they go right up them I seen them do it
we got lots of black racers here
they keep the field mice population down
an acre of gravel would do all you need
one thing we don't have here is stones
and stone would get awfully hot
an acre of gravel would probably set you back oh $20,000 I'm guessing
gravel around here is just ammo for the local kids to throw at your car :)
sheep. the lawnmower you can eat
I don't care for lamb
but you started saying you enjoyed mowing, so this is all silly
lots keep goats around here
yeah once a week I get to veg out and cruise around my yard
its not that bad
MattyMatt i got some gravel now http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5026/p4110020.jpg
hmm plain lsttl would be tricky at PCI speeds. forget the homemade port card
and a lot of woods: http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7285/p4110013.jpg
yeah ttl only good to 50 MHz
50Mhz would do, just about
if the address decoder is only 2 or 3 gates deep
I thought 30Mhz was more typical
We used to have to weed-whack our back yard once a year for fire safety
but we got a few sheep and they keep the weeds looking like a lawn
normal PCI is 33 MHz
it's often overclocked tho, as it's tied to the system clock
pcw_home i got enough stuff living in my yard I don't need to bring in more
on a certain vintage of mobo :)
Hard if not impossible to meet PCI spec with SSI logic though
yeah especially if you want the p&p
for that' you want to start with an integrated chip, and then add buffers&optos onboard
those chips might be dirt cheap by the 1000, now pci is moribund
ah well. I've see the one I'm getting if I need it. 2 ports 9715 chip (dunno the diff from 9815)
£8.50 + £2.50 from hong kong
The sheep are the first livestock we've had and we really enjoy them
actually PCI is everywhere but more embedded, hiding behind bridges (PCIE is really PCI as well)
just using a serial interface
yeah a pc104+ etc
Even on motherboards embedded in chipsets
that's the form factor I'd prefer for embedded HAL, although mini-itx would do
pcw_home, where in CA are you?
pcw_home I went on an art tour around here once where whese spinners kept sheep
Northern CA (Near Berkeley)
pcw_home, you know these sheep? http://harobedretsiger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/sheep-11.jpg
Ah ok. i was wondering where you would have enough land for sheep
definitely not much land down here in San Diego unless you got money
which i dont :)
I'm in Delaware
I'm wondering if this census we'll break a million people in the state finally?
i have a spacious 7,000sqft lot lol
pfred1, man, we got way more than that in this city alone lol
Danimal-office theres no one here
Lots of hand spinners keep sheep, but we didn't want to have to shear them so we got hair sheep
we have an acre (mostly a useless downslope that the sheep now graze
one of my best friends is from Deleware
pcw_home we don't have hills or rocks either
place is basically a sandbar
nice, like holland
Danimal-office you have to say it like this to them, Dela-Where?
you're from Dela-Where?
ha i'll have to remember that
Never been to the east much except Vermont
Danimal-office the other bizarre thing aboutthis state is there's only like 3 ways you cna drive to it
keeps people from coming or leaving i guess
does the 95 go through it?
it might way up north
but if it does it just barely does
i thought i saw a sign that sayd welcome to delaware once
on my way to california
Danimal-office the other thing that drives me nuts is weatherpeople stand in front of delaware when they give forecasts
thats going to give me nightmares tomp3...
Danimal-office you watch its true
Danimal-office before i moved here i never noticed
yea, who ever noticies delaware? it's so small you can barely see it lol
(thats what she said)
they've worked out the litigation potential if they miss a tidal wave
Danimal-office when you're here it doesn't seem that small
Danimal-office town next door to me is 125 square miles area
pfred1, neither did Connecticut when i lived there, but it was smaller than the city i live in now
I share their zipcode but I'm not actually in it
worst traffic I've ever seen is in Connecticut
yea, the 95 and the 84 suck at rush hour
i'd take california traffic over connecticut
I went camping well I never actually went camping but I took the drive and on the way home i sort of fell asleep behind the wheel next thing I know I woke up on I 95 32 miles out of manhatthan stoppedin traffic
it was backed up all the way!
roll on robochauffeur
rear facing driving seats are safer :)
hey me and that car i donno either I drove for almost 2 hours sound asleep or i drove for like 18 hours straight
you pick it
but last thing i remember i was going down the road like 3:30 AM and a fog was rolling onto the road from these marshes along the side of it
the good thing about CA is everyone does like 80 plus
next thing i know sun was up and I was stopped i missedm y turn by 150 miles
they drive like bats out of hell in massachusetts
normally they drive slow
you get on that masspike and do 100 no one looks at you funny
we call them Massholes
A guy got 10 years for falling asleep at the wheel here
MattyMatt apparently I'm a pretty good driver sound asleep
OK, he derailed a train
was he driving the drain?
or did he just have a really big car?
no he went off the road and down onto the track
train should eat a semi truck and keep on going
it was a landrover. big by british standards
how you derail a train and live is beyond me
I've seen videos of them doing it in fact
it doesn't evne slow the train down much
crap, time for dinner. adios guys
when I lived in florida everyone always raced the freight train there
because if you had to wait it'd take 45 minutes for the damned thing to go by
thing had to have been over 2 miles long
[04:15:43] <MattyMatt> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1195963.stm
now florida is a big assed state
I went down to key west and then I was like oh I'll go visit my aunt and it took me 8 hours to get to her house from the keys and she is only halfway up the state
so you're looking at about 14 hours to go from top to bottom of just florida
when i used to go camping in Maine half the trip was in the state of Mainee itself
this is one huge lake! http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=46.227591,-69.320297&spn=0.166256,0.243073&z=12
heck i been to this place and its unreal huge: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=46.217265,-69.346282&spn=0.005196,0.007596&z=17
out in the sticks...
pcw_home up there small sticks are a foot in diameter
ok, enough pics of sunny woodland please. cold dirty town here kthx
damn I need a holiday
Figured those little green dots were trees....
MattyMatt it all may look nice in pictures but there's bugs in these places like can fly off with you!
I've got a laptop now, so if my car was working I could be a road warrior
I gotta say in season my yard is worse than a swamp in upstate maine
coz I've spent enough time in both!
MattyMatt whats wrong with your car?
there were 2 distinct species of 'gnat' in momma's garden last week. that's a bad sign, either the little ones are scottish midges which bite you to hell, or the big ones are mosquitos which give you malaria
car just needs taxes and a new battery
here we have west nile virus and lyme disease
hmm I've seen batteries come back if you like pulse charge them knock the oxide off the plates
Love those funny names in ME: Chemquasabamticook lake
pcw_home heh heck white pwople don't go to them places so they're not funny at all!
one good thing about England. everything dangerous was extinct by 1700
except smallpox, that lasted a bit longer
pcw_home I found out the place i go camping in Maine no one had even gone there til like 1850
pcw_home before that it was uncharted territory
and apparently when they went there they sure didn't stay too long either!
pfred1, where was that?
Danimal-office allagash wilderness waterway
Lost Pond tells a story :)
my parents live in Maine
Danimal-office paper company gave it all to the feds as a tax break
my dad gre up there
We got west Nile here and it going to be a bad mosquito year.
Hard to find that kind of out of the way places in CA
Danimal-office it wasn't economically viable to log so they figured get rid of it
i remember this place called south branch pond
water was soooo clear
yeah it is amazing
pretrified logs at the bottom could be seen clear as day, and it was REALLY deep
the stream that fed it was blue
I'd always have some water left in my canteen whenever I got back home and I'd dump it into a clear glass and it'd be clearer than tapwater and it was just lake water by then
i miss that
sounds inviting except for the bugs...
ah as long as you hit it out of black fly season its not bad
pcw_home, yea, my parents built a house in maine last year. first thing they finished was the screened in portch
its worth it everyone I ever brought up there it changes them
downstate maine is sorta dumpy
in a deliverence kinda way?
i dunno, my parents live in southern coastal Maine... it's a pretty nice area
but i can't even see surviving north of freeport not really
not unless you can live off pine sap or something
my dad grew up in Washburn
look that up on the map :)
is it north of freeport?
it's pretty close to the tip top of Maine
near Fort Kent
I never been there
potato fields everywhere
and not much else i bet
It's where McCain french fries were made
last time I was in maine i was in bangor and i have to admit it's come into the 20th century a lot
but years ago man place was like wilderness
lots of lakes there. I lost Lost Pond :)
yea, ll bean does wonders for their economy lol
that is a nice store its where i buy my fishing license when I go
'come' into the 20th C?
MattyMatt once when I was in maine all you could get was 4 AM radio stations two of which were ocming out of canada
the Fm band was completely blank!
if that puts it into perspective for you
they are planning to end FM here, except for the digital multiplexes :)
they must have had hd radio
Danimal-office not in the early 80s they didn't
i know i was kidding
well i guess i dont know, i was an infant in the early 80's
I grew up within site of NYC so it sort of freaked me out
and all that car had was a messed up 8 track player in it
the end of radio broadcasting does give a more optimistic conclusion to Drake's equation
so we listened to the sametape over and over and over
sometimes it'd play one trakc backwards on one channel and another song forwards on the other
8 tracks sucked
which was sort of a nice change of pace
my only memory of 8 track was Space Oddity in quadrophonic in the 70s
Danimal-office well it was either that or sweedish work musak the logging company was broadcasting
and we tried the sweedish work musak and it wasn't us
sweedish women are hot
yeah their musak sucks though
and i don't understand french so the canadian talk radio wasn't an option for us either
hot and fairly non-sucky musak
this stuff was like elevator music but had a distinctly sweedish sound to it
it was unlike anything I'd ever heard
we deemed it unfit for human consumption and continued with our one 8 track tape
who's ready for a good laugh?
always. that's #1 rule of liverpool
Ok here's a picture of me from a long time ago scanned because there were no digital cameras back then
more important than paying the bills
[04:56:51] <pfred1> http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8121/maineme.jpg
MattyMatt that's Chamberlain lake in the background
owen wilson could pull of that hat with that hairdo
I think i was about 24 when that was taken
I always do a campaign hat when I camp
ah so maine is fairly flat too. that's a lot less hilly than the english Lake District
MattyMatt not really those mountains are just really far away!
MattyMatt you're looking across about 8 miles of water there
looks like a good place for water speed records
mt kathadden is actually pretty damned tall though its not quite inthis picture
its like a mile tall or something
windermere is only 7 miles long
chamberlain is over 26 miles long
you're looking across the narrow way
though at a diagonal
which makes it a bit longer
its about 6 miles wide there straight across
what's the law on living on boats there?
that picture was taken right about here: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=46.205678,-69.316478&spn=0.001299,0.001899&z=19
MattyMatt its a national park so you're supposed to pay $5 a day while you're in the park and I think they have a 3 week time limit for being in the park
but i guess if you cna outrun the ranger anything goes
heh check this out
the day we were headed to lost pond we figured it'd be a good idea to drop the hint with the ranger in case yo uknow we dind't come back so when we said lost pond he looked at us funny and said lost what?
maybe he was just playing with us I don't know but it seemed like he'd never heard of the place
it's well named :)
hey I found the place
wow, Quebec is your nearest big city. neat
it wasn't easy but we got there
I could get a candian visa far easier than a US one
as I don't have a degree
isn't canada part of the uk?
not since 1950-odd :)
they seem to still be on such good terms to me
part of the Commonweath though, so there are preferential arrangements
Danimal-office, watch 'Earth Girls are Easy' Damon Williams, Jim Carey, Jeff Goldblum, Gina Davis. the aliens see a TV commercial with Swedish girls, and go nuts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSbiL725hVQ&feature=related
you want to talk about tractless wastes there's nothing quite like canada for that!
tom3p I got that movie on vhs
and the queen is on their money, and she's not a bad looking bird in the younger portraits :)
look at the pool toy!
heh rip it
no vid cap card
next machine i build i plan on having that setup though so I can have pseudo tivo
[05:11:46] <MattyMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YpkhIXXSjU&NR=1
just watch it in 10min chunks :)
the 80s were rather vulgar :)
MattyMatt good fun!
was just watching MC Hammer vids with the kids. Big guys dancing in bike shorts, forgot about that
oh no, first musical number
geena davis looks more like a barbie doll than most
I give up. If you can remeber the 80s, you're not trying hard enough to forget
Windows CE + Windows ME + Windows NT = Windows CEMENT
on the axis setup, the max speed is for no load speed?
MattyMatt only if you plan on driving nothing
when rapiding I do
MattyMatt I took it as meaning max speed the app should run the motor at
MattyMatt no you are still driving the axis
yeah but no workload
MattyMatt driving mechanics to move na axis is a workload
that's overhead :)
payload, I should say
if you don't lose steps go as fast as you can
set and test max velocity with full load (vises tooling clamps )
we used to have edms that moved the tank, so we tested with 120 gallons of oil plus tooling
my spindle is 1/10 the wight of my Z motion
yeah its so emc doesn't try to run the machine where it can lose steps right?
any control emc or fanuc or ....
good call on the weight on the table. that affects my Y speed even when rapiding
but it shouldn't affect the other 2
I'll be tuning it as I go, so I'll keep it conservative for now
numne is now known as numen
hey archivist whats your EMC machine running these days CPU and ram wise?
p4 and a gig on one and an amd 800 meg on the other
has anyone played mass effect 2
Hello I am running xenomai-2.5.1 now but emc2 installation need rt path. any howtos?
emc2 doesn't work with xenomai
rtai or rtlinux
Is that I need rtai?
which kernel can be patch for rtai?
there is an Ubuntu based EMC cd which is ready for realtime
I am using gentoo and sabayon
[10:48:16] <acemi> http://cvs.gna.org/cvsweb/vulcano/base/arch/x86/patches/?cvsroot=rtai
this are the rtai patches
for the last stable release
Ok thanks i will try again for this xenomai path takes me two days already
will there be any xenomai emc porting?
AFAIK emc uses floating point number in its realtime part but xenomai has no floating point support
The project xenomai said the rtai was combined is that not real
Thanks I am downloading 188.8.131.52 kernel now goodbye
izua_ is now known as izua
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
I'm trying to set up my RIP on 8.04.4 machine and get this error during ./configure --enable-run-in-place
configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
disk full or no write permission?
where would the config.log be?
this might be a clue
configure:2513: gcc conftest.c >&5
/usr/bin/ld: crt1.o: No such file: No such file or directory
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
configure: failed program was:
| /* confdefs.h. */
must be missing a package or three
did you install the neccesary packages to compile emc?
on wiki it said they were needed for 9.04 so I skipped it but installing them now
now I get this error
configure: error: version.h not found - Is the kernel headers package installed ?
you need to install RTAI kernel headers package
never mind I have two kernels on this one got to get rid of the non real time on
got rid of the other kernels now to see if it boots back up...
seems like that worked
still get this error
configure: error: version.h not found - Is the kernel headers package installed ?
dpkg -l linux-headers* | grep ^ii
ii linux-headers-2.6.24-26 2.6.24-26.64 Header files related to Linux kernel version
ii linux-headers-2.6.24-26-generic 2.6.24-26.64 Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.24 on x
ii linux-headers-2.6.24-27 2.6.24-27.67 Header files related to Linux kernel version
ii linux-headers-2.6.24-27-generic 2.6.24-27.67 Linux kernel headers for version 2.6.24 on x
ii linux-headers-generic 184.108.40.206.29 Generic Linux kernel headers
there is no headers for rtai kernel
install: missing destination file operand after `linux-headers-2.6.24-16-rtai'
how did you install rtai kernel
JT-Dev: sudo apt-get build-dep emc2
and acemi probably meant: "sudo apt-get install linux-headers-2.6.24-16-rtai"
it's busy doing something now :)
red oak makes a good brake pad. I thought a 1/4" shaft in a 1/4" hole would wear itself into a snug fit, it stalled my motor completely
archivist got any spare ram slots? I might be able to hook you up
or rather, how many ram slots do you have?
and of what kind
might help with all those mysql compiles ;->
this box is full iirc unless it will take larger sticks
I have a box of 512 sticks
I've got plenty of 64M pc100/133 for UK postage
though it'll probably not make too much difference on a gig
I'm now short of bigger ones, since that 128 was bad
i have both, but none with 4chips...
if anyone need...
not really short. I should take the chance to dump these sub-Ghz no-sata mobos
my old faithful celeron 500 isn't the same without its matrox
Valen, one thing though, it takes an hour to get into this box and reassemble, so Im leaving well alone for a bit
lol you know your not sposed to put the chastity belt on the computer right
best part of 30 screws and some difficult to get at wires and the mains pushon connectors to the mains switch are far too short
my only DDR machine has a slot free but has 2x512 already
iirc this is an older SD ram
it's supposed to be dual channel but the cheap version of the mobo doesn't do it
got 512mb sticks of SD too
I looked at the new price of those when I found mine at the dump
eh, like I said probably not going to see much of a gain anyway with a gig in there
just trying to say thanks ;->
MattyMatt i have 2x1gb if you can use
but im looking for 256 or 512 with 4chips sd^^
why is it important?
MattyMatt i need the chips for my nslu2
cause this needs 16bit chips
and these are only soldred on 4chip single side or prehaps on 8chips duble sided
but you can have the 2 1gb ddr if you need
ah no need thanks, my ddr machine is fine with 1GB
I figured out what was wrong... I had a screw loose
acemi: alex_joni it's working now :) thanks
* JT-Dev smacks his forhead on the table and mumbles always use the LiveCD when possible
does the argument against steppers in parallel go away if they are on the same shaft? then it's just a double stack, surely?
may the LiveCD be virtualized?
what do you mean with virtualized?
you can boot and install into a virtual machine, but you can't control real hardware with it
acemi, run on a vm, virtual box for instance
any vmware virtualizer
MattyMatt, not sure, even with 2 identical motors one might pull more than the other. Surely someone knows for sure.
2 x 1A components in parallel don't usually equal 2A exactly.
it shouldn't matter if one pulls more than the other
all my coils seem to be the same DC resistance well within 10%
any back EMF from the dominant one can only encourage the other one, I feel
numne is now known as numen
you can use two motors on the same shaft, but you have to use a separate driver for each motor
One driver might work, if two rotors on one shaft any different than a longer motor? (and paralleled/series wiring)
(well you would want _very_ close alignment between the rotors)
(is two motors...)
they would need to be very exactly in phase as well i imagine
Yes energize both and tighten the coupling (or set them 90 electrical degrees out of phase for 0 torque mode)
If you can series wire the two motors, I can't foresee a problem. Parallel would probably be okay if you weren't close to max current, and the other steps mentioned were taken.
You would also need a 2X current driver (for parallel) or 2X voltage (for series) to get 2X performance
With no increase in either, you'd probably get less performance. Unless you already had enough to saturate the single motor.
Which, would probably have killed it.
Well for low speeds, the series connection would double your torque with the same driver, but because of the doubled inductance
the torque would drop off faster with speed
yep, I missed that
And good Ubuntu package for converting units? I have to find my hp48 rom for the simulator I normally use.
Getting tired of web based apps.
Yea! chickens are back online
online chickens? Are the eggs any good?
They are laying again
that reminds me, I need to build a henhouse and get some more chickens this year.
We're starting to free range ours
That's what I do, but I put them in the house at night.
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
SWEEEEET! Almost have all the wires sorted out and 90% of items are working on the Hardinge atm
keeps them from being owl/bobcat/coyote/mountain lion snacks.
now to figure out why the electrons don't make it from the spindle lock switch to the 7i37
Not spring chickens anymore so we had an egg gap this winter. First time weve had to buy eggs in 10 years
its funny, when we first got the chickens it was a little strange to eat the eggs because "we knew where they came from"
then when we bought eggs it was strange to eat them because " we didn't know where they came from"
clytle374: did you ever get running on karmic? I put up some updated packages.
pcw_home: you DO wash them before eating :)
Our dogs have proven to be the biggest problem, but they cut down on other predators.
pcw_home: I grew up on "real" eggs, but have been so busy last few years I haven't had chickens
heh, we had akitas like that
mozmck, yeah, home rolled kernel runs
We just have a backyard flock but they are great
We've lost our share to dogs and racoons over the years
but we finally figured out they were just keeping the chickens out of their food, and started feeding the dogs at night just what they would eat by morning, and no more dead chickens in the dog food dish!
We're trying shock collars this spring.
how goes it
clytle374: if you get a chance it would be helpful if you could install my new kernel and tell me if it runs.
if it's not too much trouble...
Dogs want the 2 week calf too, but the donkey will kill them if they come close.
heh, donkeys are good for that
Our dog is good with the chickens and sheep but we would not trust him alone with them...
I've still got a test install set up. I check it out.
JT-Hardinge, flinging chips yet?
We had a game hen chase our 130 lb male akita about 200 feet one time when he sniffed too close to her chicks.
ha.. we had an akita
spindle lock sensor wire was cut and someone put tape on it... no wonder it don't get back to the 7i37
no splice just tape
came back with a limp and a bloody face once for getting too close to a buck
hah nice.... sounds like yours was almost as much of a basket case as mine
Danimal-office: funny! After having akitas for years I have a hard time liking any other dog too much.
mozmck, nice dogs, but only if you're on their good side
I've got a real good old mutt, when she's gone I'm going to stick with the donkey.
yeah, we trained them carefully as pups. my little siblings could take a chicken bone away from them
ours made nice work of the neighbor's dogs if one got loose
while they tried to kill each other over it!
yep, some neighbors didn't like our akitas as well as we did :)
keeps the neighbors out of your stuff.
yea, i'd trust a pitbull before an akita
I've never bought into bad breeds, just bad owners
man, not me! in fact, they used to use them for babysitting in Japan.
clytle374, i agree, but there's so many bad owners that it's hard to just trust any dog
and having had an Akita, they would destroy a pitbull
ours was all white with a black head
Around the 30's pitbulls was considered a good dog for kids, and German shepherds were the killers
look up the Kohler method of dog training. not for dog rights activists ;)
i got a boxer/lab and a german shepherd/?? right now
the boxer lab is a great dog... the shep needs a little work, she needs some socializing
Danimal-office, I guess I don't trust any dog I don't know, but even a vicious large dog can be handled. TIP: If dog comes after you, offer it your hand. When it lunges shove your arm down its throat.
Dog freaks out and runs off.
i'll just let my dog handle it :)
And gag reflex stops you from getting bit
only time i run across other dogs is on walks with them
We have wild dogs here.
my big dog is an alpha male... most dogs usually take a hike
we have coyotes, thats about it
lots of them
we've got coyotes to, but dogs are worse. Not generally afraid of humans.
i was out mountain biking with some friends once and this guy was walking 2 wolves on chains
he said they were about 4 months old, and they were probably 120+lbs
coyotes respond well to lead treatment
biggest paws i've ever seen on a dog
this guy said he had 36 of them on his property
they were super friendly, but he said they werent trainable
We've got 2 Australian shepherds that don't seem trainable either.
yea those dogs have alot of energy
speaking of dogs, i gotta walk mine they're getting crazy
What's up with the mesa site? I heard a rumor about a sale on cards.
Afternoon everybody. Back at it again today. Having some issues on my X axis using two steppers. My machine has rack and pinion on both sides of the gantry. If I run either of the two steppers individually, they move the gantry by itself, but if I try to gang them together, they seem to be fighting each other, no matter whether the invert box is checked or not for either stepper. Each stepper has it's own individual driver.
clytle374: seems down atm
Both stepper drivers are Keling 4030
Pin 2 is step pin 3 is dir for the first X, and pin 4 is step pin 5 is dir for the second X
I have to invert Pins 2 and 4 to get movement from the steppers.
what do you mean fighting?
The wiring on both drivers is identical
Maybe they are out of phase with each other?
By fighting each other, one stepper is trying to go one way, the other stepper is trying to go the other way, direction wise.
Or what ever that is in stepper speak
maybe they are mounted reversed on the gantry?
They have to be mounted reversed to each other.
I'd just determine what the correct dir is, and invert the other one
invert dir for one of them
Tried that via the invert box on the dir, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.
make scale negative
although I must say I kinda doubt you can set the gantry right using stepconf
Can that be done in step conf or do I have to fat finger that in the ini file?
you can set the scale negative in stepconf
Where do I do that in stepconf?
"clytle374: seems down atm" : yes website hosting is down for some reason, if you need to you can look at our (slow) local
Just checking to see what the sale was.
Sale is a unfounded rumor
yea, i heard more of a giveaway
it was free by mesa after all.
pcw_home, started by you IIRC
actually it was me, i thought it was obvious i was kidding haha
But our prices are always a bargain!
oops, I need to get some sleep... I've misreading lots of things recently..
that should be freebee.mesanet.com not freeby.mesanet.com
wendtmk: on the page where you set up how many steps/unit you have
We actually have some layouts with Ethercat now
so we're easing inti it
alex: That would affect both X axis drivers though, wouldn't it?
Say both steppers are between steps. and the first step is forward on one and backwards on the other.
Doesn't that fight?
Try mounting them energized
They are both energized
and they aren't bound up at that point?
Not sure what you mean by bound up. When no movement is required, they are both sitting there quiescent, not fighting each other. However, when I try to jog the axis, one stepper tries to go in one direction, the other tries to go in the other direction.
and unmounted they both turn together?
By bound up I meant pushing opposite directions.
When you say umounted, do you mean one or the other disconnected from their individual driver?
Haven't mechanically disconnected them from the machine. That requires a bit of work.
But when disconnect they both go the correct way. odd
Well, not sure if both go the correct way. Didn't test that. I did test the movement with them electrically disconnected. Let me make sure they are both moving in the same direction. Be back in a bit.
bbl farmers market time
pcw_home, which one prices?
Okay, here's what's happening. When either axis is disconnected electrically, and that axis is deselected in Stepconf,the other axis moves in the correct direction. If I reconnect the other axis electrically, without configuring the pins in stepconf the original tries to move and the other tries to keep it from moving. If I keep them both connected electrically, cnoofigure the pins in step conf, one still tries to move and the other
wendtmk: you got cut off at "and the other
Okay lets try this in single lines
hang on a sec
how did you define them in stepconf?
The machine has two axes, X and Z I started out with a generic mill template with the XYZ
ok, go on
units are inches, driver is Keling 4030 selected
parallel port is 0x378
how to use SPindle encoder with Pluto-P stepper???
any config/hal setting file available in wiki??
Parallel port setup page pin 1 unused, pin 2 X step inverted, pin 3 X dir
Pin 4 X step inverted, pin 5 X dir inverted
Since I'm trying to troubleshoot, limits, home and estop, as well as other unused pins are set to unused
X axis page - steps per rev 200, microstepping set to 8, pulley teeth set 1:1, pitch set to.954927426, velocity 3, acceleration 6, table travel 0 to 52.5
Z axis not configured at this point
Should I set this up using the lathe template, which just uses X and Z axis?
Since I have no Y axis, I mean?
would it be possible to pastbin the config files? Providing step config output to them.
Will you need both the ini and the hal files?
I'm curious about the hal file, alex_joni knows more and might want the other.
I'm in the process of posting both files right now.
First time I've used pastebin. should I leave the content type to raw?
* kristianpaul fianlly got working heekspython
Okay, here are the hal and ini files: http://pastebin.ca/1837677
Kinda neat to be able to talk to you all, sitting in front of my EMC computer and troubleshooting it at the same time.
You both channel's directions are inverted. If you change one to not inverted, what happens? Does hal change?
Both channels are inverted for the step. That's necessary for both steppers to move. At least when I do them individually.
Maybe step config handles if funny since both have the same axis name? Wouldn't think so since you invert the pins not the axis
You need to change the direction of one motor, not the step.
If I don't invert the step for either motor, the one I don't invert won't move (when it's the only motor connected electrically).
Don't change the step, change the direction pin
If I don't invert the step the motor won't move
how you change the direction pin?
By selecting the invert box for that pin
hold on, where did alex_joni go?
in the setup when you set the pins, turn off invert on pin3
oops, turn it on. It is off now
Okay, did that. Steppers still fighting each other.
Does anyone know why this "setp parport.0.pin-04-out-reset 1" was in hal twice?
Does the setup wizard not handle to output for the same axis?
running a gantry, eh?
Which lines do you see it twice?
FF3.6 Download, 5 days remaining
cool. I can't offer any advice myself, but I'm setting up a router at my parents' place that'll use a two-motor axis, so I'll sit hre and watch quietly.
wendtmk: in that config how are you moving gantry axis?
Mike: do you mean which axis?
stepconf can't set properly gantry config, you must tweak your ini and hal to make it properly
if you jog , only one axis on gantry will be moving
doesn't gantrykins take care of that?
I'm kinda figgerin' that's the case. What entries do I need to make in the ini and hal files to make that happen?
Isn't gantrykins more for servos than steppers?
wendtmk: describe more your machine. I'll try to help you
Mike: Yeah, I'm trying to gang two steppers on the X axis. If I run each individually, they jog in the correct direction (one or the other electrically disconnected and pins set to unused in stepconf)
Mike: machine has two axes - X and Z. X axis has two rack an pinions, with it's own individual stepper and driver.
Z axis has screw for it's movement, but I haven't played around with that axis yet.
One other thing - the jogging and movement have solely been done in stepconf, using the "test this axis" subprogram. I haven't brought EMC up fully inisde of Axis to try this out yet.
You'll have to excuse me for just a moment - nature calls... Little too much coffee this morning...
Sure would be nice if I had a bathroom out here in the shop!
wendtmk: easiest way to do that would be connect step and dir of second motor of X axis to the first one
Mike: How would I be able to invert the direction of the second motor if I did that though?
I want one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mutb7KgA9NM&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Mike: I forgot to mention in the description above that the steppers need to move in the opposite direction of each other, the way the rack and pinions are set up.
if parport.0.pin-05-out is pin of second motor dir
simply remove line: setp parport.0.pin-05-out-invert 1
If I deselect the invert, the stepper moves the gantry in the wrong direction.
That is, compared to the stepper on pins 2/3
so you must negate scale on second gantry motor stepgen
Aren't both steppers being driven by the same axis, AXIS_0?
yes but to make it work you must negate second one
simply put '-' before [AXIS_0]SCALE
Being a bit of a noob, I'm taking SWAG that it has to be done in the hal file?
archivist: Triple carbs!
man this is the third video card i have that went bad lately
anyone know of a decent reasonibly priced card that wont die?
Won't putting a '-' before [AXIS_0} scale affect both steppers though? I still need one to turn in one direction and the other to turn the opposite direction.
aa-danimal-shop, all on the same mother board?
aa-danimal-shop: stop using antiques would be a good start.
wendtmk, that is why micges wants you to remove the invert line.. to change the direction of the one motor
Okay, so I need to remove the invert line and place a '-' in front of the [AXIS_0], correct?
setp stepgen.1.position-scale -[AXIS_0]SCALE
no, different mobo's
they were newer cards
wendtmk, One do the second if the machine moves opposite of what you want.
Okay, I'm getting confused here... ;-) what are the first steps I should take?
aa-danimal-shop: AGP is *NOT* a newer card
listen to micges, not me
ok, THEY WERE PURCHASED RECENTLY
wendtmk: ok. have you stepgen.1 connected to second motor of X axis?
aa-danimal-shop: Again, stop using antiques would be a good start.
aa-danimal-shop: And why are you buying anything for AGP, seriously. That a bit dated to be investing in it still, unless you paid like $2-5
Hang on sec - there aren't any stepgen.1 lines under [AXIS_0], they're all under [AXIS_1]. If I stick that line in under [AXIS_0] is that going to cause a problem?
yes I see that
hold on one sec
well what am i supposed to buy?
all this computer is for is for watching netflix
too bad the atom boards don't have a modern video interface
wendtmk: ok so you have two x drivers, to what pins are they connected?
i'm not buying a new pc just for that
wendtmk: just pastebin your whole config
aren't the agp boards getting expensive?
select all the ini file, and put it to pastebin.com
same for hal file
to keep my confusion to a minimum, X1 is connected to pins 2/3 2 being step, 3 being direction. X2 is connected to pins 4/5 4 being step, 5 being direction.
hey alexjoni is it possible to attach spindle encodeer in pluto step?
MOGLI: I have no idea
ok :( if anyone tried it than plz guiide me..
micges: looks ok
now.. xdir goes to parport.0.pin-03-out and pin-05-out
wendtmk: one of the 2 moves in the wrong direction
which one is it? the first one (driven by parport pin-02 & pin-03) ?
or the second one (pin-04 & pin-05) ?
alex: one has to move in the opposite direction because one is mounted inverted from the other
"one" is a useless statement
one is a lonely number
just like Jymmm
sorry, X2 is mounted in reverse from X1
then you need setp parport.0.pin-05-invert 1
The dir on X2 is inverted, opposite of X1
and it still goes the wrong way?
What seems to be happening, is X1 tries to move in the correct direction, X2 for some reason wants to hold position.
I think something else happens
your X1 has scale defined as 8000
X2 has scale 1527.8838816
(the other way around..)
X1 has scale 1527..., X2 has 8000
when you try to move X, X1 will move slower than X2
alex, that's axis_1, aren't both steppers under this config tied to axis_0?
wendtmk: I stand by my initial statement that using stepconf for this is a bad idea
setp stepgen.0.position-scale [AXIS_0]SCALE
setp stepgen.1.position-scale [AXIS_1]SCALE
same for maxaccel, etc
* alex_joni is having a duh moment
In the TRAJ portion of the ini file, the coordinates are X Y and Z. Should I make the coordinates X X Z?
both steppers are driven by stepgen.0
alex_joni: I thought that SOP for you.
no, forget TRAJ for now
wendtmk: try putting you latest version of the files at pastebin again
Okay, will do
ok, looks pretty much ok
what happens when you try to move in X+ direction?
X1 tries to move, X2 just holds it's position.
what happens in X- direction?
Same for trying to move in the X-
X1 tries to move, X2 holds position?
can you swap motor drivers?
I can swap the leads between X1 and X2. Will that work?
I mean the stepper leads.
the wires going to the motors you mean?
yup, that will work
Okay, give me a moment.
remember to turn off the amps first
wendtmk: also, can you check that custom.hal is empty for you?
Same thing, except X2 tries to move, and X1 now tries to hold, and custom.hal is empty.
alex: If I electrically disconnect X1 from the drive, and set the pins to unused, X2 moves just fine. If I disconnect X2 from the drive, and set it's pins unused, then X1 moves just fine.
The problems start happening when I electrically connect both steppers to the drives.
hmm.. maybe your parport doesn't have enough voltage for both drives?
time to try Z
How would I determine that?
wendtmk: start emc2
do you have a meter?
emc2 is up and running. I have a True RMS multimeter.
ok.. try measuring the step input at both drives
same for dir
while it's in a quiescent state?
aa-danimal-shop: If you blowing video cards, you might want to check the CRT, power, etc. Video cards RARELY burn out (except those with heatsinks/fans on them).
X1 step - 9.8 mV, dir 5 V. X2 step - 9.8mV, dir 10 mV
now open a terminal
Ok, terminal open
(emc2 is still running....)
you get a halcmd prompt
sets xstep 1
anyone know how the bvl20-1l lathes are in accuracy and rigidity ? :)
now measure again at both step inputs at the drivers
Loud screaming from machine...
I just turned off the power at the controller
should be 5V or so
Yes, loud high pitched hum from steppers
i have that also =)
from my drivers
chopping frequency issues i think
Getting 1.078 V
wendtmk: that's certainly not enough
Is that related to the parport?
both are 1.8?
Yah, sorry 1.08
The controller box is hooked up to the mobo parallel port. I have a parport PCI card installed but not configured.
Disappointingly, my mill spindle encoder doesn't work.
Jymmm, all of these had heat sinks, and a couple of them had fans
It's rather odd, but watching it on the oscilloscope you can see the relative phases of A and B channels changing, enough that it gets periodic batches of negative counts.
mine either, that's why I'm here.
ah, well, I'm using an optical encoder
gotta watch out for florescent lighting :D
Mine is a machine aluminium top-hat with optical wossnames.
don't have a flourescent light on it do ya? they blink at 60hz
MIne blink at 50Hz, but it isn't that, I am pretty sure.
alex: that loud noise started as soon as I hit enter after the sets xstep1 command
ok 50 :)
Whoops, that should have been xstep 1
wendtmk, sounds like you better try with the pci card.
I _think_ that the problem might be that the slots are too close to the sensor aperture size, so small variations in surface finish or colour are altering the exact sensor switch point, enough to alter the phase.
The sensors have a 0.05" aperture on the emitter, and a 0.01" aperture on the detector, and my slot-width is 0.03"
The lspci command gave me these results: http://pastebin.ca/1837806.
Which port should I use? There are two parallel ports on this card.
wendtmk: try all one by one
hmmm maybe it isnt the video card. It freezes when i watch netflix in full screen on my TV. It's happening with 2 different cards. what else could cause this? the whole computer freezes.
Will I need to reboot between, or just shut down and restart EMC2?
just restart emc
Alternatively, I wonder if it is worth painting the encoder black?
mike: okay, got the parport configured on ac00. step and dir voltage readings at 5 v. Ran through the halcmd exercise, and both step and dir readings are at 4.98 V.
That's what I'll be doing with mine when I finalize a design; anodizing it black.
No loud noise from the steppers this time either... ;-)
How do I go about joggin the x axis from within EMC2 to see if it works?
Anodizing would be better, but would be a waste of money if it was not the colour that was the problem. Painting it without clogging the holes sounds hard though.
(also, I am not sure how "black" black paint is to Infra-red
Perhaps it is worth trying some higher-value pull-ups on the sensors first, they only just skim the low voltage as things are. A squarer pulse shape into the comparators might help.
Well, my goof. ac00 wasn't the correct parport. b400 was. Got that set, brought up emc2, ran the halcmd stuff. X1 step voltage 9.8 mV, dir voltage 5 V. X2 step voltage .884 V and dir voltage 9.7 mV
What starts a thread in HAL?
adding function to it
I have a bit of a problem, as I tried to run Halscope in the base thread, but that thread doesn't run, so Halscope quits every time.
I guess deleting the Halscope config would fix that problem though>
Mike: still seeing the same problem as before. X1 wants to move, X2 wants to hold position.
This is on the new parport, the PCI card.
andypugh: what's is error in console?
what is a way to have feedback from a stepper? can i add an encoder to it?
aa-danimal-shop: See, I'm a mind reader =)
Not an error as such, Halscope brings up a dialog box giving me the option to start the thread and try again, or to quit Halscope.
elmo40: Yes, you can add an encoder
wendtmk: try dir hack again
elmo40: But it won't give you closed-loop control, just tell you when a step has been missed.
mike: which dir hack was that again? ;-)
I suppose in theory you could run a PID controller on a stepgen, which might allow you to recover missed steps. It might catch missed-steps on overloads, but not overspeed stalls.
remove invert out from one of motors
andypugh: you can use stepgen in velocitty mode and encoders
it should work
mike: Only X2 has the invert on the dir right now, with no changes yet
should I remove that one?
it is waste of time
Haven't done anything yet.
Aye, that was sort-of what I was thinking. Do you know if anyone has made that work and gained an advantage?
define stepgen 0 to drive motor 0 and stepgen 1 to drive 1
Is wendtmk running a dual-motor axis?
andypugh: it's working here
Okay, how and where do I do that?
in hal file
Okay, I have the hal file open
duplicate all lines you have for motor X1
just change stegen.0 to stepgen.1
Are X1 and X2 on the same axis?
stepgen.1 is set up under AXIS_1 in the hal file. Should I comment out the AXIS_1 stuff?
This might be a time to use Gantrykins.
andypugh: basically i would like to have better info on where it is, tell the software it is 'here' and then have it figure out where to go from there.
andypugh to the Gantrykins!
TO THE BATMOBILE ROBIN!
There is a sample config in the standard install that shows how it is used, you can assign multiple "joints" to the same "axis"
wendtmk: pastebin again I'll quickly do this
OK now who here knows about hydromatic tractors?
I think i have to purge mine
Don't bogart that joint my friend...
she ain't a movin a too good lately
hydrostatic? I used to work at a Deere dealer.
With a gantrykins config you can switch between independent and conjoined motor movement modes, which allows for auto-squaring.
VernonM yeah push the motion control lever forward and it doesn't want to go anywhere
man, that could be anything from low fluid, plugged filter, stuck bypass, bent linkage...
VernonM that is what I've been reading but it came on over the winter I was wondering if it somehow iced up and just needs to be purged now?
does it whine? try to move at all?
oh yeah it goes really slowly the shed i keep it in I have a ramp it just doesn't want to climb it
I made the ramp at the tractors maximum degree of incline
see if that bypass valve is stuck in.
and it usually rips right up it
is that the transport linkage?
yeah I've fiddled with that
unless i have it in the wrong position?
wherever the lever/linkage is, it pushes in a valve on the transmission to let the fluid bypas the hydraulic motor in it
I'm going to try the purging proceedure in the manual but not today its too late i nthe day for me to have it out and have it stuck being out
ah yeah, understandable
sems like it'd surge if it needed purging, but it's been a while since I worked on that stuff, and things change.
oh yeah I'm clueless about it it usually just works for me
* frallzor is tired
most I've ever done to it is charge up the battery
freaking lawn mower turn the key and go
man I'm glad I don't work on that stuff anymore
Jymmm its a tractor
now the heaviest thing I lift is a Kurt vise :)
micges: No stepgen linked to axis.1 ?
VernonM they're heavy
yeah especially the doublelocks
andypugh: it's about axis x for now
I have a knock off
some of those are pretty good
Someone please help me with my lath spindle encoder :)
I know I've seen people threading with single-pulse encoders, but all of the documentation seems to assume a 100-count encoder as well
VernonM: What is the problem with your lathe spindle encoder? (Mine works fine, it's the mill one I am struggling with)
I have threaded with a 20-count encoder, but the 400 count one works better.
I can see the light on the encoder card blinking, and the one on the breakout board, and HALmeter even shows it flipping between true and false, but the example threading program just gets to G33 and hangs
Do you have an encoder set up in HAL?
and every time I try some uneducated poking and pasting of snippets into my HAL file, I just screw it up
no, at the moment I've started over with a fresh StepConfig.
Let me go through my lathe HAL and find the important lines.
VernonM in the meantime here is my ugly no name vise: http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8026/millpic.jpg
just a few minutes ago, I noticed a bit in the EMC wiki about rigid tapping on a mill with a single-pulse encoder, which looks promising...
Sounds brave to me -)
pfred1: Man, it's ALMOST as ugly as it's owner! But not quite.
Jymmm I picked it up in a flea market for $20 you know?
pfred1: For $20 - Ugly works for me!
as long as that back jaw is strong and perpendicular to the table, who cares if it's ugly :)
VernonM: pfred1's better half maybe?
Jymmm lets see the thread was stripped out so I had to crack the moving jaw in half and with a whizzer disc cut new threads weld it back together and resurface it so ....
VernonM: Thinking about it, the stepconf config should just work.
besides, I can't talk... I might run Haas and Mazak at work, but at home it's all Sherline!
Jymmm but it holds good now!
How many channels do you have on the encoder/
mike: I cut and pasted it into a new hal file, but when I went to start it up, EMC2 crashed
Jymmm yeah when i bought it it was all greasy and I didn't see the damage
stepconfig has a window with a "counts per revolution" box, but it won't let me change the "100" in it.
VernonM: Which channel of the HAL encoder module is it connected to?
pfred1: that bites - probably why it was all greasy in the first place. I like to clean up everything I sell, but I take care of my shit too.
VernonM doesn't Sherline come with config files?
wendtmk: run emc from console and see what erro it is
just type emc
pfred1: Probably for BDI though, not emc2
it's a Sherline lathe, but I converted it. Gecko drives and CNC4PC cards.
Jymmm whoever owned this vise treated it like a block of scrap wood its all drilled out on the body I filled it with lead and refaced that too
didn't buy it as a cnc sherline
ok let me check this HAL thing
VernonM: If you can't change the scale in Stepconf, you should be able to edit the encoder.scale line in HAL.
pfred1: There were some vises on CL, want me to let you know if I see some more?
Jymmm it just always seemed Sherline supported EMC pretty good to me in my reading about it all
ok yeah, I'd just change it to 1, I think...
well, Sherline's CNC setup doesn't thread, either.
pfred1: EMC1, not EMC2 (afaik)
mike: this is in line 38 could it be causing the problem: net ypos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => axis.1.motor-pos-fb
Jymmm I'm starting to hate companies that don't provide continuing support for their products after sale
Jymmm its all about customer relations you know?
pfred1: Caveat emptor
what i'm saying is a little good will can go a long way
pfred1: They want you to THINK that's it, but not always.
VernonM: You need to set encoder.0.counter-mode true and encoder.0.position-scale 1
pfred1: Sure, but rarely is the case.
wendtmk: what error?
but lets say a company really goes the extra distance for you aren't you going to tell everyone you know about it?
And then you need to make sure that your pulse input is connected to the encoder.0.phase-A pin in HAL
However, I thought that Stepconf was clever enough to do all that
andypugh FOSS software is rarely too clever and often I think that is by design :)
mike: okay, part of the cut and paste went goofy. emc2 is now up
does anyone in here now use a plug in parallel port card?
VernonM: I think I see the problem (I just tried a stepconf setup)
mike: okay, when I jog using the right arrow key X1 moves, but X2 tries to hold position. When I jog using the left arrow key, X1 holds position, and X2 moves.
VernonM: In the Parallel Port Setup screen of Stepconf you need to set one of the inputs to be Spindle Phase A. Then you can change the scale factor, and the correct HAL modules will be written to the config
This is with EMC2 up and running.
ahh ok I'll try it
I just got my spindle speed working again. The one thing I didn't have setup notes for.
wendtmk: now inverse dir signal on x2 motor
aa-danimal-shop whats so cool?
and setting it to Spindle Phase A won't make it look for a 100-count encoder?
that he got his spindle working again
No, if you define the input then the pulse-per-rev box becomes editable.
aa-danimal-shop oh yeah whenever I do anything setup wise on a PC I always make a notes file and copy down every step I take it comes in handy if I have ot do it again
mike: WoooooHooooooo! The gantry moves!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!
wendtmk: comment line 45 of my pastebin
Now that's progress right there!!!!!!!!
ok so Phase A will be set to some unused pin, and my index pulse to another input pin?
wendtmk: don't run stepconf on that
only manual changes
Say congratz to Mike. He's the one that figgered it out!
yeah back it up!
copy it to a backup file and save to removable media
I won't be running stepconf against that, that's for sure!
yeah immortalize it
ROFL! I'll have it framed and sent to Mike... ;-)
woohoo that counts per rev box is editable
thats it print it out and have it bronzed!
Okay, onward and upward. Time to fat-finger in the params for the Z axis... If I don't come out of the woods within 5 days, send out the search teams!
i figured out something useful yesterday... i had a part that was nearly impossible to setup for a re-cut and it was too big. So i put it in some sodium hydroxide and warm water for a few minutes and it fit perfect!
i just masked off the other critical dimensions
* Jymmm just shakes his head at aa-danimal-shop
Jymmm chemical etching is a time honored practice
mike: since there's no longer an AXIS_1 in the hal file, should I remove that section from the ini file?
aa-danimal-shop: hope you tossed it in baking soda afterwards
Jymmm, get over yourself
wendtmk: you'll have high shiping prices to Poland ;)
i anodized it afterwards
VernonM: No, set Phase-A to your pulse pin, and ignore index and B-phase (I think)
aa-danimal-shop what would happen to aluminum if you chatodized it?
wendtmk: no it will be your Y axis defined
ha ok I'll try that. it's not working the other way...
aa-danimal-shop opposite of anodize
VernonM: If that doesn't work, set both A and Z to be the same pin in the P-Port setup screen of stepconf.
cathodized, you mean?
aa-danimal-shop you know anode and cathode?
wendtmk: it will be XXYZ machine right?
aa-danimal-shop yeah thats it cathodized
Cathodised parts get very clean and rather smaller.
i know anode and cathode, but you cad me confused with the grammar
(i'm one to talk)
I've done that electrolytic rust removal on ferrous metals
that stuff is awesome!
never tried it
aa-danimal-shop it works and I've tried the exact chemical I think baking soda works better personally
I have the chassis of a 1922 Ner-a-Car that I intend to try electrolytic de-rusting on.
andypugh just let it sit for a while after you do to relieve the hydrogen stresses
shouldn't HALmeter show axis.0.index-enable as TRUE?
andypugh couple of months ought to do it
ha, ok, same pin, I'll try that.
oh and, home anodizing, is fun and easy.
index-enable is for zeroing the encoder position at the start of a threading pass, so it should only go through during a G33 or G76 move
I chrome plated at a printing die shop once
If tired, nervous, run down, ride the Nera-
car -- hundreds, young and old,
testify to it's benefits.
pcw_home is that a hiku?
oh yeah, I should have been looking at encoder.0 .. which IS true
sigh. I have no clue.
VernonM its more fun that way
good night all
it HAS been fun. more fun than the mill conversion, which was simpler.
I can't set A and Z to the same pin in config
er wrong chan youre not the dnb radio
VernonM: You can't? That seems unfair.
You should be able to do it in HAL.
VernonM: Change the line net spindle-phase-a encoder.0.phase-A to read
setting net spindle-phase a and net spindle-index to the same pin caused it to crash
net spindle-phase-a encoder.0.phase-A encoder.0.phase-Z
And then delete the two following lines.
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
Time to see if my modified encoder board helps. I am not entirely optimistic.
thank you !
it needs more pulses though
it's moving in short increments... maybe I need to invert the signal
still, it's running
my encoder disk is CARDBOARD until I finalize a design. easy enough to modify.
thanks a lot man
I've had a thread up on the 'zone for a week or so asking for help.
VernonM you made your own encoder?
Andy said that.
I'm just making a disk with holes.
VernonM oh I'm really DIYing everyhting here
VernonM I want to do optical limit switches eventually
I've thought about it, but I'd hate to have a chip fall in them and trigger a false signal
same reason Hall effect switches are out for me
VernonM I'll point my sensor modules down
yeah, good idea.
hmm i wonder if this weld will hold. i know you're not supposed to weld cast iron
aa-danimal-shop why not?
depends on the rod, aa-
aa-danimal-shop just peen the weld to relieve stress
* pfred1 welds cast iron all the time
i just used steel mig wire
it should still work i use regular filler sometimes
it seems somewhat strong
I have seen cast just up and crack after welding though
but if you gently peen the weld it should be OK
it's not a structural piece
only thing with cast is you're supposed to preheat the work
ah its not that critical all the time
it is on a big casting
yeah welding a little piece to a big piece heat the big piece up
that way they contract the same
can always weld it break it off and weld it again :)
dang Fedsex delivered my Tek today... that was not expected :)
ancient swords were hammer welded cast iron
JT-Hardinge you bought a scope?
JT-Hardinge the eyes into the electron or did you already have one?
aa-danimal-shop: I weld cast iron all the time
JT-Hardinge yeah its no biggie right?
ok it still moves in surges...do I need more encoder pulses?
I had one before
JT-Hardinge with this CNC stuff scopes are handy
JT-Hardinge I'd have never built my motor drivers without one
welding cast takes a special rod and you have to stress relieve the weld after by peening and you can't weld more than one inch at time
JT-Hardinge sometimes if its a crak it'd a good idea to drill the end of the crack to oso it stops spreading
that always pisses me off if I'm welding and the crakc keeps on getting longer
I use a Harris 65 rod
JT-Hardinge I figure its cast iron so anything i throw in there has to be better ;0
if it is cracked you must grind out all the crack so the weld it 100%
yeah you have to grind
I picked up a mad 9" grinder at a garage sale a couple of years back
keeps me from burning out a 4 1/2" every year
guy i bought it off of said you'll burn out before it will and he was right!
a 9" is quite a handful
yeah but sometimes i get a little intense
too intense for the 4 1/2s to put up with
I've killed like a dozen
so can I just take out all the PID in my ini to set the drives physical PID settings
I've only killed cheap ones in the past
nah I've killed good ones too they just go sometimes
if its a hot day or you just are pressing a little too hard
the gears shatter or the motors burn out
the 9" just rips the stock down
but i wouldn't use it like say under a car or somewhere confined
ha, no, it'd eat you.
but out in the open its what I wish all gringers were
if I'd have gotten one years ago I wouldn't have gone through so many of the little ones
well... a shorter index pulse didn't solve it. Neither did inverting the signal.
VernonM stalled axis?
nah, threading on a lathe. Andy got me going, but it's not exactly right yet.
it's staggering through the threading passes, moves a bit with each passing index, but it's waiting for phase inputs, so it pauses again
VernonM doing some stuff for the first time can be frustrating a year from now you'll be able to do it with your eyes cloded I'm sure
oh yeah i'm sure. It's frustrating, but fun.
all you Linux guys have it easier :)
pfred1: Hey, stop giving out my high speed driving secrets!
sounds like the encoder may be too slow for the rest of the machine to keep up with to me
VernonM all you need to know is mv = move and cp = copy now you're a UNIX guru as far as EMC goes :)
I guess find and locate are handy commands too
oh and less is more
yeah, well it's a single pulse, Andy's got me hooked up with the encoder and index set to the same pin in HAL,
so it starts on the index, but then waits for encoder pulses to continue
VernonM oh so you're like 1:1 but it expects 1:4 or something?
well, the scale is 1...
so shouldn't it just keep going?
maybe it's the example program's fault...feed set too high for 400 rpm or something.
VernonM yeah if it was me I'd go very slowly to start off with
yeah well I'm cutting air at the other end of my travel :)
not gonna bash MY lathe.
head crashes are always pretty hairy
well, THAT worked... I changed the example program from cutting threads at 400 to 800 rpm
haha going faster?
so it's the program or the g33 canned cycle
[22:28:46] <skunkworks_\> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/16io.JPG
VernonM: Looking at your HAL, which output of your encoder is the axis position net-ed to?
I'll go look
(Back from the garage, my encoder is still not working. I am baffled as to how slots half an inch apart can vary in relative phase..
oh, that's the Netting Andy had me set, Both A and Z are netted to the encoder
net spindle-phase-a encoder.0.phase-A encoder.0.phase-Z
Yeah, but that was a guess :-)
yeah well it's MOVING
net spindle-position encoder.0.position => motion.spindle-revs
infinitely more progress than I'd made
to net spindle-position encoder.0.position-interpolated => motion.spindle-revs
I am not entirely sure how well position-interpolated works on 1ppr, but it ought to be better than raw position
how could 1 ppr be better at anything
I was saying that position-interpolated might help to make a silk purse out of that particular sow's ear.
well it seems better, back at 400rpm again
but it's hard to measure air-threads.
guess I'd better cut something
How many input pins do you have free?
it's a lot smoother
Because 20 slots + index would be a whole lot better.
all but one, what are there, 5? I'd like to save one for limits, which aren't hooked up yet
so, 2 or 3 more
I'm seeing that.
guess I need a second encoder card.
it's a lathe, so one for eaxh axis limit still leaves you enough for Index and A.
but I'll be ok with all of them on one loop
going to make the Z- limit moveable
Ideally you want a seperate home for each axis, it just works better.
VernonM you run off parallel port?
a single port at the moment
although I have more cards...
VernonM what kind?
VernonM i want ot buy a parallel port card
I am not sure why you need an encoder "card". My encoders hooked pretty much straight into the P-Port.
andypugh signal conditioning?
OK, so I have some comparators on a bit of stripboard for that.
well yeah there's not much driver circuit to a phototransisor, but it's CNC4PC's encoder, optoisolated, isn't it?
andypugh I see ...
andypugh have a schematic for that?
Do you have any other unassigned inputs? They would probably work.
I don't think I have a schematic, I just built it. (point-to-point wired on spot-board with Verowire, saves all that planning that you need with stripboard)
yeah I have 3 available inputs
andypugh remember offhand which comparator you used?
I guess that the encoder connections provide a 10mA (or similar) supply for the photodiodes
andypugh ta noted
noted in multiple locations.
The circuit is +5V through 220R to the LEDs, then the Phototransistor is connected to +5 through a 2k2. 0V is common.
right now I'm mocking up my port buffer prior to actually building it
ah that's cake. I wish Rat Shack still stocked real parts.
The junction of the 2k2 and the phototransistor goes to the IN+ of one side of the comparator. The IN- is connected to a 10k Pot between +5V and 0V.
VernonM I just bought a 276-147 2200 solder ringed perfboard off rat shack earlier today
You need about 500R pull-up on the comparator output. For best noise immunity I put that on the actual breakout board.
VernonM clerk even said good luck with your project to me
heyyy, this CNC4PC card uses LM339, a quad comparator. Can;t I use part of it for another input?
If I were you I wouldn't be wasting time asking, I would be already on to it :-)
You can probably put the LED sections in series to save making another current-limiter.
nice, thank you, I'll try it
andypugh well with your information I'm sure i can cobble up some sort of a circuit over here when the time comes thanks
so, 20 count encoder? more? does a high-count encoder hog a lot of processor power?
andypugh it sounds like your comparator circuit will work for limit switches to me also
yeah that's true, but I'll need to power the LEDs
andypugh my port buffer is very simple but I still drew it up to help me out when i put it all together
Yes, I have pretty much the same circuit on my limit switches. They are focussed-reflective ones. They work pretty well, my Z-axis limits only stand proud of the surface 3mm, but the short focal depth of the photodiodes means that works fine.
I have a whole bunch of emitter detector pairs i pulled out of cash register printers I thnk
they were on a big encoder wheel if memory serves
* MattyMatt has a nice pile of ball mice
initially I'm only going to run the plain old mechanical microswitches though
MattyMatt lots of those the emitters and detectors are just soldered to the board
Do mice have an index track?
no index. I've got floppy drives for that tho :)
it does seem old mice were born to CNC to me
the magnet & hall switch off a 3.5 hub
I wonder how much torque they have
mice, printers, VCRs, have emmitter-detector pairs
I want ot get my hands on some scrap commercial copiers
yes they are!
I want a 200:16 pair of gears. they'd turn a crappy $15 encoder into a really nice jog wheel, I think
ah. poop. no comparator in this card, only in the IMAGE of the card on the website.
VernonM must be a feature on the next model up
OK, I found a schematic for my limit switches, which is pretty much the same as the encoder. (slightly different resistor values).
[23:05:04] <andypugh> http://imagebin.ca/view/KMZQS0b6.html
Hex Inverting Schmitt Trigger.
yeah I might have some comparators...but I'd have to dig.
VernonM thats what I've been using on the transistor output of optos
You can't adjust it, but it will give you nice clean edges.
what, the Schmitt?
it's even socketed
you can see how I am using them on this: http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1819/ppbb4sch.png
yeah and that fits on one chip too
I found the values of the resistors a little finicky but not too bad the pulldowns are 470 ohms to get .4V for a negative on my opto
at that i think it is good for 11 ma
you can condition a signal with a transistor
I have 2k2 pull-up. I don't know enough to have an opinion which is better.
that's what I see in most equipment for optos
MattyMatt 7414 package easier for me to deal with
andypugh I got the idea for my circuit out of a datasheet someplace
it seems to do what I want it to do
(Actually I now have 6k7 pull-up but it didn't help with the phase-shift problem)
I think I am going to have to make the slots physically wider.
Having the spindle velocity running negative for a few encoder counts every cycle is not going to make for successful rigid-tapping.
andypugh, what do you mean by "phase shift problem"
not without a floating tap holder :)
archivist: My A and B phase are 90 degrees apart near the index, then 180 degrees apart hapf way round.
Which I am struggling to explain, as the photo-detectors are adjacent to each other (about 10 slots of the encoder) and I think I would spot that degree of machining error.
trace it onto a sheet of paper and spin it 180 degrees :)
off centre bore?
take a photo, view it onscreen through the real one
It is centred, and even that shouldn't cause a phase shift between close-spaced sensors.
well manufacturing errors will, did you notice the message aimed at ian in the hobbing thread about measuring a gear, use that on your disk
I have learnt that not all dividing schemes are equal
I did make a 99.5 tooth encoder (by dividing a circle into 365 degrees) and that was really obvious. That is about the same level of error.
I have seen a worm dividing head give .6 degree error
This would need to be a 1 degree error over 10 slots. That is the bit I can't figure out.
I think my cat ran off with a bag of resistors on me!
andypugh, was it divided on a cheapo rotary
But the same cheapo rotary made a perfectly good 400-slot encoder for the lathe spindle.
then cut a high count and measure with a vernier over n teeth and look at the variation
for what definition of perfect
"Perfectly good" as in functional.
No random velocity reversals.
also optos can give erroneous results if the reflection of an edge varies
archivist would painting it flat black help?
if its not perfect some must lead and some must lag by definition
pfred1, depends, probably yes but ambient light has caused me most trouble with optos
I am thinking that it is due to optical effects.
I had to warm it up to get it off the mandrel, and some of the slots have a coating of burned cutting fluid...
swash plate wobble? that would affect it
andypugh an optical illusion?
From the point of view of the opto-sensors, yes.
andypugh I couldn't resist :>
I think I will just make another disc with wider slots. They should be more definite in their position.
send it to me and I'll anodize it for you!
after glass-bead blasting for a nice flat finish
Thanks for the offer, but it's a long way to post an encoder.
I sprayed it with black paint before I left the garage, I will see if that makes any difference.
I hope so. Yeah, you did say you were on 50Hz mains... but after all your help, I had to offer.
My lathe spindle encoder uses the same design of wheel (aluminium disc with slots cut by a 1/64" slitting saw) with reflective rather than transmissive sensors, and works unexpectedly better.
[23:53:44] <andypugh> http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5437112859354194098
And the next two pictures.
man that's great. is that a deeper index slot?
The A-sensor and Index are mounted on the same bolt.
I could see painting it helping
Aye, that is why I tried it.