#emc | Logs for 2010-03-10

[00:04:28] <clytle374> Any Yaskawa experts around? Anyone know how to change the SGDA amp to a different motor size?
[00:08:29] <tom3p> you can use a smaller motor on an amp, but it knows (and bitches)
[00:09:38] <clytle374> I'm pretty sure these don't know, and the motor will burn up.
[00:09:42] <tom3p> the classic ladder author mavati has some scada work done. and his CL seems to have "section titles"
[00:13:59] <tom3p> really? sgda? i thought mine identified the attached motor.
[00:14:12] <tom3p> sgda4 sgdm
[00:15:49] <clytle374> I cant' imagine how it would know since there is only the 6 channels from the encoder.
[00:17:23] <clytle374> I know there is a hack to change the motor type in the servo amp, an engineer had me do it once. I can't get a hold of him, and Yaskawa won't tell.
[00:19:55] <tom3p> what do you mean with "type"?
[00:22:02] <clytle374> the motor type. size voltage, and sgm or sgmp
[00:25:07] <clytle374> At least that is what the Yaskawa book calls it.
[00:31:25] <tom3p> its going to remain an ac asynchronous brushless motor (what id imagine the type meant) and the supply voltage is fixed, tho the output voltage may be able to be hacked. but i dont see anything in the manuals
[00:31:36] <tom3p> Cn-02 Bit 8 chgs sgm sgmp
[00:32:04] <tom3p> 3.3.4 Setting the Motor Type
[00:33:07] <clytle374> I you look at the motor type and modification index in the digital operator part of the manual.
[00:33:35] <clytle374> There is a trick to write that data.. But it was over 5 years ago, and I can't remember the details
[00:33:48] <tom3p> ok, ^^^ changes the 'type', got the manual?
[00:34:43] <clytle374> I've got the manual. I have 100W amps and 50W motors.
[00:35:15] <tom3p> i use the cable & PC PROGRAM, THO I DO HAVE THE DIGITAL OPEWRATOR
[00:35:24] <tom3p> sorry caposlock
[00:36:59] <clytle374> What did you mean by "^^^" ? The engineer made me use the digital operator, said the pc software wouldn't do it.
[00:37:40] <clytle374> In the manual under 4.2.7 Checking Motor Type
[00:37:48] <clytle374> not the sgm sgmp switch
[00:42:04] <tom3p> the line above is noted by ^^^
[00:43:18] <clytle374> oh, thanks. Still not what I'm needing.
[00:44:17] <clytle374> I think I ran 24V to on of the inputs, velocity input I think. And set one of the cn-2 reserved bits.
[00:44:28] <clytle374> I should've written that down.
[00:50:22] <tom3p> yeh thats tricky, the mode you point to is a query, not a changing method. if there's some easter egg in there, well you and 1 other guy know about it
[00:51:38] <SWPadnos> isn't it some current limit setting?
[00:52:00] <SWPadnos> I remember a FAE telling me that you could go up or down one motor size
[00:52:35] <SWPadnos> but I have SGDH drives, so it may be different
[00:52:40] <clytle374> SWPadnos, I can torque limit it But max is over %300 of constant. So it greatly limits the torque.
[00:53:03] <clytle374> SWPadnos, I think they know what motor is connected
[00:53:05] <SWPadnos> sure, and you can set the E-stop braking torque up to 800% on the SGDH
[00:53:17] <clytle374> The sgdh drives that is
[00:53:39] <SWPadnos> could be, though I don't remember seeing that data in the encoder serial protocol
[00:53:58] <SWPadnos> I'd have to look it up again, it's been a couple of years since I messed with those
[00:56:36] <clytle374> When i called Yaskawa they admitted it is possible, but wouldn't say how. The guy how told me surely got it from Yaskawa, but I can't get a hold of him.
[00:57:01] <clytle374> Maybe I should keep calling them until they break.
[00:57:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:57:56] <clytle374> "hey it's me again, I've got all week.. "
[01:12:16] <skunkworks> I thought ladder ran top to bottom left to right
[01:13:04] <SWPadnos> read all inputs, then run top to bottom, then update all outputs AFAIK
[01:13:30] <SWPadnos> however, the inputs to lower rungs will not have the "new" output values if they change during the processing phase
[01:14:01] <SWPadnos> (I don't know how things such as coils are handled when their contacts are lower, but not "physical" inputs)
[01:20:36] <skunkworks> this seemed like a good idea http://imagebin.ca/img/n3Yx22QQ.png
[01:20:53] <skunkworks> it counted to 3 correctly - but you can see 4 isn't right ;)
[01:21:45] <skunkworks> just playing
[01:23:29] <aa-danimal-shop> whats the ladder for?
[01:23:44] <skunkworks> at the moment it is to try to get used to it.
[01:24:23] <Jymmm> DJ on the radio says one of the good things about owning a prius is you don't have to worry too much about it getting stolen..
[01:25:15] <ds3> what about as a get-out of speeding ticket pass? :D
[01:25:47] <aa-danimal-shop> what about as a get-out of getting laid pass? :D
[01:26:05] <Jymmm> ds3: As long as you beat the "running off a cliff/crashing into a wall" alive
[01:26:32] <ds3> that's why there are solid cages...
[01:26:40] <ds3> oh wait, that PoS doesn't have that... "oops"
[01:27:14] <Jymmm> I tell ya, I should start a "$100 Kill switch Installed" service
[01:29:59] <ds3> isn't it easier to just weld a tundra to the rear
[01:30:07] <ds3> anything goes wrong, put the tundra in gear
[01:32:00] <Jymmm> Isn't that like trusting M$ windows as your firewall?
[01:33:13] <ds3> sure, but you have confidence in knowing that you have a single source for all your security!
[01:38:55] <aa-danimal-shop> buy domestic and noone will steal your car
[01:40:17] <aa-danimal-shop> i think they should make people visit detroit before you're allowed to buy an import. and you must drive it there.
[01:42:21] <tom3p> driving in detroit is a good reason to own a lincoln station wagon, get on the john ford, go fast and dont slow that boat down
[01:43:04] <ds3> lincoln station wagon? didn't know lincoln still made wagons
[01:43:30] <tom3p> had one, biggest dang thing to park
[01:43:41] <tom3p> stiil, noooooo
[01:43:48] <ds3> how's it stop?
[01:44:09] <tom3p> didnt have to ;)
[01:46:06] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[01:46:41] <aa-danimal-shop> fords are the only thing that can take my abuse
[01:47:09] <ds3> just wish ford wasn't so stingy with the wiring
[01:47:20] <aa-danimal-shop> my rear wheels travel much, much farther than my front wheels
[01:47:46] <tom3p> i remeber diving it under the 'el tracks on wabash in chicago, maybe 1/2" clearance between girders and parked cars
[01:47:48] <aa-danimal-shop> ds3, i hear ya, i got a few wiring issues
[01:48:16] <aa-danimal-shop> granted it is a convertible, and the top leaks
[01:48:29] <aa-danimal-shop> but it's 11 years old too
[01:48:43] <ds3> aa-danimal-shop: if an option isn't from the factory, there is no wiring for it...even the contacts in the fuse box are missing :(
[01:49:54] <aa-danimal-shop> never noticed that
[01:50:17] <aa-danimal-shop> i know my car's main wiring harness is the same for automatics and manuals.
[01:50:31] <aa-danimal-shop> i converted mine from auto to manual and it was all plug and play
[01:51:24] <ds3> maybe the drive train is different? the inside fuse box is missing the contacts for options not from the factory i.e. the high end amp circuit
[01:51:42] <aa-danimal-shop> interesting
[01:51:58] <ds3> would've been a nice place to tap power for other stuff... figure all I'd need is an extra relay but even the contacts for the relay is missing
[01:51:59] <aa-danimal-shop> i dunno, my car came with all the options except traction control
[01:52:16] <aa-danimal-shop> not sure if it's wired for that or not
[01:53:07] <ds3> the labor to add that wiring far exceeds the extra cost for the wires/contacts
[01:54:19] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm sure they dont make the harnesses. they pay for the end product, so if they can save $1, they will
[02:12:36] <aa-danimal-shop> ok the z on my lathe is acting up.... it ferrors now and i cant even move it anymore
[02:13:11] <aa-danimal-shop> it seems to be creeping a little then it tries to correct and over compensates and ferrors
[02:13:23] <aa-danimal-shop> and when i try joggin, it ferrors immediately
[02:13:48] <aa-danimal-shop> i tried turning the lead screw by hand and it moves freely
[02:14:31] <clytle374> did'nt z break last week?
[02:14:41] <aa-danimal-shop> when i try turning it when the amps are enabled, it doesnt seem to want to hold very well. it holds a little, then it breaks free and tries to compensate
[02:14:50] <aa-danimal-shop> no, that was x and that seems ok now
[02:15:00] <aa-danimal-shop> different issue too
[02:17:15] <aa-danimal-shop> why would it try creeping like that?
[02:18:12] <atmega> has anyone here converted a 7x lathe?
[02:19:06] <clytle374> aa-danimal-shop, dcdrives? Brushes okay?
[02:19:27] <aa-danimal-shop> brushed dc... i dont know
[02:19:42] <aa-danimal-shop> was working fine, then just started doing this out of the blue
[02:20:10] <clytle374> everything fails like that.. It worked, now it don't
[02:20:12] <aa-danimal-shop> is that typical behavior for bad brushes?
[02:20:26] <clytle374> encoders+ tachs? Brushes can do it.
[02:20:38] <aa-danimal-shop> resolvers and tachs
[02:20:57] <clytle374> so can a bad drive, encoder, cable, or tachs
[02:21:33] <clytle374> or motor
[02:23:07] <clytle374> what was wrong with X btw?
[02:23:13] <aa-danimal-shop> i dont know
[02:23:25] <aa-danimal-shop> just stopped acting up
[02:25:55] <aa-danimal-shop> hmm i think it's the encoder
[02:26:00] <aa-danimal-shop> resolver i mean
[02:26:34] <aa-danimal-shop> it just went ape shit
[02:26:58] <aa-danimal-shop> and now when i turn the ball screw it doesnt change on the screen
[02:27:51] <clytle374> aa-danimal-shop, as in it no longer counts? Or it doesn't turn?
[02:30:15] <aa-danimal-shop> no longer counts
[02:30:48] <clytle374> Are the servos on or off?
[02:32:38] <clytle374> oh, I misunderstood. That eliminates the the power side of the circuit.
[02:33:06] <clytle374> does the resolver hook into the amp or only the control?
[02:33:26] <clytle374> should only be the control?
[02:33:49] <aa-danimal-shop> i guess the encoder is counting still, it just wasnt connected to the lead screw
[02:34:09] <aa-danimal-shop> i think that was a result of the thing taking off
[02:34:21] <aa-danimal-shop> not sure if it was the reason why it took off
[02:34:31] <aa-danimal-shop> but maybe
[02:34:42] <aa-danimal-shop> actually i bet the coupler came loose
[02:34:53] <clytle374> that will do it.
[02:34:57] <aa-danimal-shop> i think the belt snapped though
[02:35:00] <pcw_home> A loose encoder likely cause of run-away
[02:35:08] <aa-danimal-shop> oh well, i needed new belts anyways
[02:35:08] <pcw_home> (is a)
[02:35:22] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i'm pulling it apart now
[02:36:25] <clytle374> Oh, I hate runaways.
[02:36:56] <aa-danimal-shop> yep, belt snapped
[02:37:05] <aa-danimal-shop> it was all dry rotted
[02:37:40] <pcw_home> In addition to reasonable ferror settings, enabling excessive drive detection can catch some of these run-aways
[02:38:17] <clytle374> PCW, is that in the book?
[02:38:25] <pcw_home> Should be
[02:39:07] <clytle374> cool, going to interface one amp to the daughter card in the morning.
[02:39:07] <aa-danimal-shop> hmm cool
[02:39:11] <aa-danimal-shop> good to know
[02:41:26] <pcw_home> it will catch cases where the encoder becomes disconnected,(mechanically or electrically) there no motion so no ferror (should be stopped)
[02:41:28] <pcw_home> but motor runs away because of integral term winding up
[02:42:13] <skunkworks> jeeze
[02:42:14] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[02:42:23] <aa-danimal-shop> and snaps my belt
[02:42:39] <clytle374> did it hit a hard stop?
[02:42:39] <skunkworks> cradek: couldn't get much simpler than that... Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. http://imagebin.ca/img/7A39k93.png
[02:43:01] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, and snapped the belt when it did
[02:43:22] <skunkworks> cradek: duh.
[02:44:06] <clytle374> consider yourself fortunate if nothing else got broke.
[02:44:30] <aa-danimal-shop> lil servos
[02:44:35] <aa-danimal-shop> not much power
[02:46:23] <clytle374> I had a Glentech drive go nuts once on X and tore up the endplate,thrust bearing block, and screw pretty bad..
[02:49:25] <clytle374> Anyone have any experience with Sure Servo?
[02:50:50] <tom3p> i think they're good deals, i've used 400 800 and 3kw
[02:51:37] <tom3p> just like yaskawas or panasonics but cheap and fast to get
[02:52:09] <tom3p> if you do quantity, yakawa may end up better
[02:52:33] <aa-danimal-shop> hmm cant easily find a direct replacement as fast as i need it. how hack is it to use 2 3/8" wide belts instead of 1 3/4" wide belt?
[02:53:31] <atmega> sounds tacky
[02:53:34] <clytle374> aa-danimal-shop, does it fit? If so great.
[02:53:47] <clytle374> *, great
[02:53:53] <tom3p> ive seen it done on cars
[02:53:57] <aa-danimal-shop> should fit, same pitch and everything
[02:54:02] <atmega> but, we had a maint. guy at work cutting a 1" belt down to 3/4" to get a machine up while waiting for the right one to come in.
[02:54:12] <tom3p> so its ok for power transmission
[02:55:03] <clytle374> You can buy belt in a sleeve and cut it width too.
[02:55:35] <aa-danimal-shop> 3/8" wide belts are easy to get in the pitch and length i need, but i havent found 3/4" wide yet.
[02:55:47] <aa-danimal-shop> and i need it tomorrow
[02:55:50] <aa-danimal-shop> morning
[02:55:53] <ds3> are these flat or v belts?
[02:56:05] <aa-danimal-shop> gear belts
[02:56:06] <clytle374> tom3p, The looked decent. I couldn't find where they come from, china? I'm a long way from any quantity.
[02:56:21] <tom3p> the local gates does that, cuts em while you wait (got a zigzag once, thats how i found out)
[02:56:23] <aa-danimal-shop> flat
[02:56:42] <aa-danimal-shop> what's gates?
[02:57:27] <tom3p> clytle374, taiwan, funny thing was i couldnt buy them there, the 'sure servo' is branded like 'kenmore';. i had to have em shipped from us
[02:57:33] <clytle374> aa-danimal-shop, oops, you meant 2 x 3/8" wide belts. not a 2 3/8 wide belt.
[02:57:54] <aa-danimal-shop> clytle374, yep
[02:58:10] <tom3p> gates power belt, sorta the cocacola of belts
[02:58:16] <aa-danimal-shop> ahh
[02:58:18] <SWPadnos> aa-danimal-shop, what kind of belt are you looking for?
[02:58:49] <aa-danimal-shop> 80t .200 pitch 3/4" wide gear belt
[02:58:53] <clytle374> aa-danimal-shop, and I was thinking if it fits, why not?
[02:59:23] <tom3p> mcmastercarr? they get me stuff next day
[02:59:35] <SWPadnos> probably not at this time of night though
[02:59:52] <aa-danimal-shop> they dont have it
[02:59:53] <tom3p> not that fast
[03:00:01] <clytle374> grainger?
[03:00:08] <aa-danimal-shop> they dont have it either
[03:00:47] <SWPadnos> I don't see XL belts in 3/4 width at all
[03:00:55] <SWPadnos> at McMaster or SDP-SI
[03:01:11] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[03:01:19] <SWPadnos> sdp-si has 1/2" ones
[03:01:30] <aa-danimal-shop> kinda why i was thinking of using 2 x 3/8" ones
[03:01:36] <clytle374> If SDP-SI doesn't have it?
[03:01:45] <clytle374> they have everything
[03:01:53] <SWPadnos> what's the torque rating on the motors?
[03:02:52] <aa-danimal-shop> damned if i know. the label is long gone
[03:03:15] <aa-danimal-shop> the amps put out 6amps continuous. thats all i know
[03:03:35] <SWPadnos> what voltage?
[03:03:36] <aa-danimal-shop> 90vdc
[03:03:36] <SWPadnos> oh. ouch
[03:03:46] <aa-danimal-shop> they're lil guys
[03:03:56] <SWPadnos> heh. not really :)
[03:04:12] <SWPadnos> (small by large machine standards, about the size of some small machines)
[03:04:14] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe you'd know, you have the same lathe, dont you?
[03:04:31] <SWPadnos> I have an HNC, but I haven't even had a chance to look at the motors
[03:04:36] <aa-danimal-shop> ahh
[03:05:03] <aa-danimal-shop> well if i find the right belts, i'll let you know
[03:05:08] <SWPadnos> my Bridgeport has larger motors than that, but the belts are L, not XL
[03:05:18] <aa-danimal-shop> if you decide to build it, you may need them
[03:05:21] <SWPadnos> (9A cont, 150V max)
[03:05:36] <SWPadnos> well, there should be motors on it. hopefully they'll still move when I finally get to it :(
[03:05:45] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[03:05:56] <aa-danimal-shop> well i mean i'll let you know about the belts
[03:06:02] <aa-danimal-shop> mine were dryrotted
[03:06:09] <aa-danimal-shop> yours may be too
[03:06:36] <SWPadnos> could be
[03:06:49] <aa-danimal-shop> do you think 2 x 3/8" wide belts is a bad idea?
[03:06:58] <aa-danimal-shop> those seem to be readily avalible
[03:07:01] <SWPadnos> permanently, yes. temporarily, no
[03:07:35] <SWPadnos> I don't know enough about belt power transmission systems to know if it's an OK idea permanently, so I assume it's not
[03:07:45] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[03:07:49] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm with ya
[03:07:50] <atmega> msc sells 3/4 timing belts
[03:07:57] <aa-danimal-shop> but i need the machine working like yesterday
[03:08:09] <aa-danimal-shop> atmega, not the pitch i need
[03:08:14] <aa-danimal-shop> i already looked
[03:08:38] <SWPadnos> I hate to say it, but you should measure again just to be sure you got the right pitch
[03:08:58] <SWPadnos> I did see 8mm pitch / 20mm width belts, but with round profile teeth (HTD I think)
[03:10:44] <aa-danimal-shop> it's the right pitch
[03:10:50] <aa-danimal-shop> .200 is a standard pitch
[03:11:04] <SWPadnos> yeah, but 3/4 width isn't standard for that pitch
[03:11:15] <aa-danimal-shop> belt is 16" long
[03:11:16] <tom3p> 3/4" .200 gates power belt in long length atv auto parts
[03:11:31] <tom3p> at auto parts , like 172 tooth
[03:11:47] <aa-danimal-shop> i found one online but it's in NJ
[03:11:56] <aa-danimal-shop> i'll see if i can find one on the left coast
[03:12:27] <aa-danimal-shop> goodyear part # 160XL075
[03:13:44] <aa-danimal-shop> dayco makes one too
[03:14:10] <atmega> my compressor uses two belts
[03:15:08] <clytle374> SWPadnos, do you know how to figure the max torque for a timing belt? I look for a bit and didn't find it.
[03:15:16] <SWPadnos> nope
[03:15:45] <SWPadnos> my motors are 27 in-lb, and use 3/4" L belts
[03:15:51] <clytle374> okay, back to plan A. If it slips, max torque was exceeded.
[03:16:04] <SWPadnos> oh - for non-toothed belts, I really have no idea
[03:16:21] <SWPadnos> if you're using a belt for positioning, you want a toothed (timing) belt
[03:16:21] <clytle374> I'm taling about toothed belts
[03:16:29] <SWPadnos> toothed belts don't slip
[03:16:34] <SWPadnos> unless they lose teeth
[03:16:47] <aa-danimal-shop> or snap
[03:16:53] <clytle374> I bet if you put enough torque to them they do.
[03:17:01] <aa-danimal-shop> well i was only able to find one belt
[03:17:03] <SWPadnos> sure, they break or lose teeth
[03:17:14] <aa-danimal-shop> i think i'm going the 2 belt route for now
[03:17:15] <SWPadnos> they won't slip though, unless you have no tension on them
[03:17:17] <clytle374> yep, plan A
[03:17:39] <clytle374> Just strip the teeth off?
[03:17:45] <aa-danimal-shop> i need this POS running
[03:18:05] <SWPadnos> clytle374, um, what?
[03:18:06] <aa-danimal-shop> i think i know where there are 2 belts sitting unused somewhere in VT
[03:18:19] <SWPadnos> is your goal to destroy belts, or to transmit power with toothed pulleys?
[03:18:28] <SWPadnos> (it's hard to tell from your comments)
[03:19:17] <clytle374> I hope to transmit power, but I don't know for sure what the belt can handle. So I'm going to try it and see if it works.
[03:19:31] <SWPadnos> ok. that sounds like a reasonable plan A
[03:19:43] <SWPadnos> you could also look up some specs or something
[03:20:30] <clytle374> I did look, but didn't find anything.
[03:21:14] <clytle374> Just breaking strength, which doesn't mean transmittable power.
[03:22:50] <aa-danimal-shop> yep, the coupler was completely loose
[03:23:45] <SWPadnos> http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Drive/Timing_belts.html
[03:23:55] <clytle374> Its a tiny .08 MXL belt
[03:23:57] <SWPadnos> see the section titles "Horsepower rating of timing belt"
[03:24:02] <SWPadnos> titled
[03:24:28] <SWPadnos> they have an example torque table for MXL belts about halfway down the page
[03:27:10] <clytle374> SWPadnos, thanks, I guess I didn't look long enough.
[03:27:22] <SWPadnos> sure. hope it helps
[03:27:32] <SWPadnos> bedtime here. see you
[03:30:10] <aa-danimal-shop> so why would one get ferrors with steppers?
[03:30:30] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm trying to turn up my velocity and i got a ferror at 150ipm
[03:30:47] <aa-danimal-shop> 5i20
[03:31:17] <aa-danimal-shop> servo period too long maybe?
[03:31:30] <aa-danimal-shop> i have no base period in my ini
[03:31:39] <aa-danimal-shop> not sure if i should add one
[03:39:24] <aa-danimal-shop> ok if i play with the servo thread time, it throws a ferror even worse
[03:39:43] <aa-danimal-shop> doesnt matter if i raise it or lower it
[03:44:24] <clytle374> I really have no idea, any chance the steps run together at that speed?
[03:45:46] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe too much microstepping?
[03:46:04] <aa-danimal-shop> i guess i'd see that in scope
[03:48:06] <clytle374> I don't know that either, it happens inside the 5i20 IIRC so maybe the scope can't see it. But I really don't know.
[03:48:32] <clytle374> Decreasing microstepping should help if that is the cause.
[03:53:30] <clytle374> good night and good luck.
[03:53:35] <aa-danimal-shop> goodnight, thanks
[03:58:25] <aa-danimal-shop> changing the microstepping helped
[03:58:44] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm getting 150ipm out of these big steppers
[03:59:51] <aa-danimal-shop> huge improvement over what i was getting with the old pc
[04:03:20] <aa-danimal-shop> i was able to kick up the accel too
[05:31:07] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[06:35:00] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[06:35:24] <numen> moin
[06:51:35] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[06:55:58] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[08:34:37] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[10:20:17] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:50:11] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[11:51:20] <frederic> Hi somebody can help me?
[11:52:21] <micges_work> just ask
[11:52:21] <frederic> Need help on a tangential cutting machine
[11:52:42] <frederic> hi micges
[11:53:30] <micges_work> hi frederic
[11:53:39] <micges_work> micges_work is now known as micges
[11:53:50] <frederic> I need mount on my router (EMC controller) a cutter.
[11:54:29] <frederic> the cutter must be tangent to tajectory ... a configuration is XYZC .
[11:55:30] <frederic> the problem is I have difficult to found a CAM > G-code with 4 axes
[11:56:08] <micges> try search on this list: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
[11:58:02] <frederic> the best solution is configure a [TRAJ] whit a C axis follow the actual direction you think is possible
[11:59:02] <frederic> I have already loked on the CAM list but nobody make (explicit) this function
[11:59:44] <frederic> other Software house make this but under Win... (I hate win :))
[12:00:01] <micges> frederic: let assume that machine is in 0,0
[12:00:20] <micges> you have line G1X100Y100
[12:00:39] <micges> let assume that C angular position is 0
[12:00:58] <frederic> is OK
[12:01:27] <micges> when you add G0C45 before this line it will be cutter perfectly
[12:01:46] <micges> arcs..
[12:02:00] <frederic> G0 X0 Y0 C45 > G1 X100 Y100
[12:02:40] <micges> same situation you have G2X100 Y0 I50 J0
[12:03:41] <micges> before that arc you must calculate direction of arc begin (90 deg)
[12:04:14] <frederic> This is ok for me. In G-code is not difficult But I must start from a DXF file (the oprator of machine is not able)
[12:04:17] <micges> G0 C90 > G2 G2X100 Y0 I50 J0 C-90
[12:04:36] <micges> and you will have cutted arc
[12:07:22] <micges> if you know python there is project: http://sourceforge.net/projects/vec2ngc/
[12:07:23] <micges> on this project you have file dxf.py which is advanced DXF parser in python
[12:07:33] <frederic> :) this is true and correct.. But the user is a graphic people and d'ont know the C-CODE only vectorial Drawing.
[12:08:51] <frederic> look this machine (is the same type) www.zund.com
[12:09:20] <frederic> Im looking vec2ngc
[12:10:06] <micges> frederic: vec2ngc is not finished, you can use code for your needs
[12:11:16] <frederic> I will try to get and modify to generate a C coordinate... thanks a lot for now
[12:11:57] <micges> welcome
[12:13:46] <frederic> I try to contact Ribonsoft QCAD & CAM Expert but no answare now... Is a good 2D Cam
[12:23:15] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[12:30:56] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[13:34:52] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[15:18:15] <clytle374> I'm starting to despise ebay. More seller problems
[15:18:44] <clytle374> As in problems with a seller. Got the item too cheap, now they are not responding.
[15:20:37] <tlab> seller fees are stupid expensive
[15:25:02] <clytle374> I think the seller is trying to wait me out for a paypal dispute so they can just refund my money instead of honoring the sale
[15:27:14] <atmega> my last ebay purchase came with a bent-to-hell leadscrew
[15:27:51] <atmega> but, the seller is sending me a new one, and new drive nuts with no hassles.
[15:32:10] <pcw_home> aa-danimal-shop: ferror on 5I20 stepgen probably means you don't have enough timing headroom for your velocity settings
[15:32:12] <pcw_home> that is velocity > 1/(steplength+stepspace)
[16:20:01] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1637326197.html
[16:34:03] <skunkworks_> cradek: didn't know if you saw.. (took me a bit to relize what the & was doing (bitwise and)) (little slow some times) http://imagebin.ca/img/7A39k93.png
[16:34:40] <aa-danimal-shop> timing headroom?
[16:35:11] <Jymmm> is that ladder?
[16:35:34] <Jymmm> skunkworks_: is that ladder?
[16:35:56] <cradek> skunkworks_: neato
[16:36:33] <Jymmm> whats ladders purpose in emc?
[16:36:51] <cradek> sequencing/logic/math for hal
[16:36:59] <Jymmm> in english
[16:37:01] <aa-danimal-shop> i use it for my toolchangers, coolant pumps, a cycle time timer, etc
[16:37:21] <cradek> many details of machine integration can be handled in ladder
[16:37:48] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, for me it's easier than hal, if the project is somewhat complex
[16:38:15] <Jymmm> so, like turning on coolant automatically?
[16:38:30] <cradek> skunkworks_'s is a good example. you'd have to write a hal component for that simple task (splitting a number into bits) otherwise.
[16:38:49] <aa-danimal-shop> i have it so i can override the coolant when i program is running
[16:39:22] <Jymmm> aa-danimal-shop: as opposed to having it in gcode?
[16:39:25] <cradek> skunkworks_: to make your counter reset at 16, you can configure it for 'target' 16 (or whatever it's called) and then hook the F (finished? full?) output to R (reset) input
[16:39:41] <aa-danimal-shop> but the so the program can override the coolant button, and the button can override the program
[16:40:13] <Jymmm> aa-danimal-shop: what did you just say?
[16:40:14] <aa-danimal-shop> Jymmm, just incase i forget an m8 or i want to shut the coolant off to look at something if i pause the program, etc
[16:40:33] <Jymmm> ah
[16:40:47] <Jymmm> But where is the COOLANT_ON in the first place?
[16:40:59] <Jymmm> in gcode?
[16:41:02] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, it's ladder *logic* - anything that needs some logic to decide can be done with it
[16:41:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: That I get, it's its intergration That I'm trying to understand
[16:41:33] <SWPadnos> so coolant might be "turn on coolant output if (emc requests coolant or user presses button) and override is not on"
[16:41:43] <clytle374> aa-danimal-shop, you find belts?
[16:42:05] <aa-danimal-shop> doesnt matter, like i said, the button can override the programed m8/m9, and the programed m8/m9 can override the button. so if i have the coolant turned on with the button, an m9 will shut it off
[16:42:23] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: But where is the COOLANT_ON command initially? In gcode?
[16:42:31] <Jymmm> for automation purposes I mean
[16:42:33] <SWPadnos> the emc IO controller has a coolant output, which would be run into ladder as one of those inputs, a panel button might be another, and a switch (for disable) might be another
[16:42:51] <SWPadnos> and the output from that ladder logic would go to the IO pin that actually controls the coolant pump
[16:43:09] <aa-danimal-shop> correct SWPadnos
[16:43:12] <cradek> Jymmm: you can turn coolant on in several ways, including poking 'coolant on' in manual mode in emc, and a gcode command
[16:43:16] <SWPadnos> if you don't care about external panels and overrides, just run the output from the IO controller straight to the IO pin
[16:43:45] <aa-danimal-shop> clytle374, just woke up, i'm gunna look now
[16:44:46] <Jymmm> Yes THAT I understand, but WHERE does it fit in respect to automation; eg I want coolant on whenever I run a program, but not if coolant_low, then stop/halt program. If that's what I want WHERE in EMC would that be, assuming that it's not in the actual gcode itself
[16:45:18] <SWPadnos> you'd need to read the manual(s) to see what signals you need to mess with to get the behavior you want
[16:45:20] <Jymmm> how/where do the pieces fit together is what I'm asking
[16:46:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I have the puzzle piece, I want to know WHERE it fits, not how to create the functionality itself.
[16:46:13] <bill2or3> Does anyone know what the style of robot arm used on the 'flexpicker' is called? it looks kind of like an inverted hexapod, but with only 3 'arms'
[16:46:13] <SWPadnos> generally, it's something like emc -> some HAL stuff (might include button and sensor inputs) -> classicladder -> IO pin(s)
[16:46:36] <SWPadnos> delta robot?
[16:46:48] <aa-danimal-shop> i found some belts locally to hold me over
[16:47:05] <aa-danimal-shop> Jymmm, you should play with ladder some. it's really cool
[16:47:37] <Jymmm> aa-danimal-shop: I can see that, but I'm wanting to know WHERE that would go
[16:47:54] <SWPadnos> that's a little bit like asking where a shrub goes
[16:47:59] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[16:48:00] <SWPadnos> "wherever you need it"
[16:48:08] <SWPadnos> or "it depends"
[16:48:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, it's not going on the roof.
[16:48:36] <aa-danimal-shop> there's a start
[16:48:44] <Jymmm> is this in the ini?
[16:48:46] <SWPadnos> ok, you now have infinity minus one options ...
[16:48:52] <bill2or3> that's it swpadnos, thanks.
[16:48:53] <Jymmm> is it on a per config basis?
[16:49:00] <SWPadnos> oh, see, now there's a better set of questions :)
[16:49:06] <aa-danimal-shop> Jymmm, , it's not in ini, it's it's own thing
[16:49:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: No, you just not listening
[16:49:25] <SWPadnos> classicladder is a HAL component, so loading it is done in a hal file or the HAL section of the ini
[16:49:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: (we do this all the time, stop it!)
[16:49:31] <SWPadnos> I am, you're not asking the right questions
[16:50:00] <aa-danimal-shop> Jymmm, it's similar to hal, you have inputs and outputs, and components. you can hook the inputs and outputs to certain physical components or hal components or pins
[16:50:01] <Jymmm> so does it efect the ENTIRE machine? no matter what ini I use?
[16:50:02] <SWPadnos> "where does it go" - that's not "where do I write the words to make it load" or "how is it connected in a typical machine" - it could be either
[16:50:14] <SWPadnos> nothing affects all configs
[16:50:35] <SWPadnos> nothing in EMC that is (screen resolution and that kind of thing are outside the realm of EMC2 configuration)
[16:50:37] <Jymmm> So, where does it go (*.cpl) ?
[16:50:48] <Jymmm> err clp
[16:50:54] <aa-danimal-shop> in your config directory
[16:51:06] <Jymmm> ok and how is it called?
[16:51:07] <aa-danimal-shop> and you load classicladder_rt in your hal
[16:51:10] <SWPadnos> you edit the ladder logic using the classicladder editor, and then specify what /clp file to load on a line in a HAL file
[16:51:15] <Jymmm> via what? ini ?
[16:51:21] <aa-danimal-shop> Jymmm, , it's called in your config files
[16:51:31] <aa-danimal-shop> i forgot
[16:51:32] <Jymmm> aa-danimal-shop: the ini file?
[16:51:35] <aa-danimal-shop> i think hal
[16:51:41] <SWPadnos> ini specifies what hal files to load, hal files specify what components to load and how they should be connected
[16:51:42] <aa-danimal-shop> lemme look
[16:51:52] <Jymmm> so it's on a per ini config basis
[16:51:58] <skunkworks_> cradek: sorry - thanks! (the timer was just to cycle thought the numbers easy.. ;)
[16:51:59] <SWPadnos> bbl - phone
[16:52:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: tooodles
[16:53:00] <Jymmm> Ok, so it's called from the ini. Is there such a thing as a global config that it cold be added to?
[16:53:00] <aa-danimal-shop> Jymmm, it's in the hal
[16:53:09] <aa-danimal-shop> not the ini
[16:54:06] <aa-danimal-shop> loadusr -w classicladder --nogui ###.clp
[16:54:24] <aa-danimal-shop> that line goes in hal and directs it to the clp file
[16:55:16] <aa-danimal-shop> read the integrator's manual or the wiki, it's all in there
[16:55:29] <Jymmm> Ok, I have nfc on hal. Where does that sit in relation to the config.ini respectively?
[16:56:09] <aa-danimal-shop> i dont know, i use hal for all my components
[16:56:10] <Jymmm> OS > RTAI > EMC > HAL? > cnfig?
[16:56:31] <aa-danimal-shop> how do you not know hal? dont you have a working machine?
[16:56:41] <Jymmm> ha!
[16:56:53] <aa-danimal-shop> i thought hal was a neccesary piece of the puzzle?
[16:57:13] <aa-danimal-shop> not being a smartass, i'm just confused
[16:57:34] <Jymmm> It probably is, I just dont know where all the pieces fit together or the hierarchy
[16:57:41] <aa-danimal-shop> ah
[16:57:55] <aa-danimal-shop> yea i'm a little fuzzy there too
[16:58:24] <Jymmm> jmkasunich writes detailed shit on hal, but forgot the HAL 101 imo =)
[16:59:02] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i learned by trial and error
[16:59:13] <aa-danimal-shop> and help from this channel
[16:59:28] <aa-danimal-shop> i couldnt understand the manual until i already had it figured out
[16:59:38] <Jymmm> You are here > * HAL sits over here, and config.ini up there, and GUIOFCHOICE somewhere near the bottom, etc
[16:59:54] <aa-danimal-shop> no offense to whoever wrote it, it's just that their education level is higher than mine :)
[17:00:21] <Jymmm> aa-danimal-shop: Blame jmkasunich for being a geek =)
[17:00:27] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[17:00:47] <aa-danimal-shop> i gotta run to pick up a belt, bbl
[17:01:26] <tom3p> if you choose a config, that means to choose an ini, the ini calls the hal(s), one hal calls the component 'cl' and instructs the clp file to use
[17:01:45] <Jymmm> It's like he wrote the details of the electronic ignition, but forgot to say that it's connected to the ignition switch and fuel injectors.
[17:02:13] <Jymmm> tom3p: Ok so it *IS* on a per-config basis, correct?
[17:02:19] <tom3p> yes
[17:02:35] <Jymmm> tom3p: Ok, is there a GLOBAL too?
[17:03:24] <tom3p> and tho there is a 'common' dir in configs, its still has to be asked for, so i say that its per config (imo/ymmv/takeitforwhatitsworth)
[17:04:05] <tom3p> the 'common' aint really global , aint really enforced
[17:04:17] <Jymmm> tom3p: As example, say you want to make sure that no matter what config you use, you can always make sure that one lil aspect (say a lightbar sensor hasn't been broken) will always be in effect no matter what?
[17:06:01] <tom3p> i think you have to specify what you want, i see no global, you could make a 'custom.hal' that >>you<< always include, but its just like a header file, >>you<< have to include it, its not automagick
[17:06:17] <tom3p> or
[17:06:19] <Jymmm> tom3p: ok gotcha
[17:06:23] <cradek> Jymmm: it's very uncommon to have more than one config for a machine
[17:06:24] <tom3p> hack emc
[17:06:40] <cradek> for only odd machines like shoptask that might be used
[17:06:57] <cradek> anyway, if it's safety, you do it in relays, not ladder
[17:07:06] <Jymmm> cradek: True, but if you use one PC for multiple machines, or have a spare PC for testing purposes.
[17:07:16] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[17:07:28] <Jymmm> cradek: It's ok I was just inquiring
[17:08:15] <Jymmm> cradek: Well, the lightbar was just an example I could think of that was simple enough, it could have been a COOLANT_LOW signal
[17:08:39] <cradek> brb
[17:08:49] <tom3p> you can see the hierarchy in configs/classic-ladder/cl-estop.ini
[17:09:11] <Jymmm> So, those of you that have a tool changer, HAVE to use ladder to set it up? Or is that handled somewhere else?
[17:09:42] <tom3p> cl or direct thru hal or indrect thru hal thru hardware plc
[17:10:25] <Jymmm> why not ladder?
[17:10:41] <tom3p> cl (1st on that line) is calssicladder
[17:10:56] <tom3p> classicladder
[17:10:59] <Jymmm> Ah, looked like C<one> here
[17:11:20] <Jymmm> c1 cl
[17:11:56] <tom3p> since ray worked on the 1st one, and used what the was familiar with (ladder), a load of people followed his lead and used CL
[17:12:38] <Jymmm> No, that's fine, I understand. I'm just tring to understand where the peces fit together and under what scenarios
[17:12:42] <tom3p> but it'd be tighter with .hal directly, and more commercial style with .hal talking to a cheap hardware PLC
[17:12:50] <Jymmm> Right.
[17:13:19] <Jymmm> So CL is the same lang that most PLC's use?
[17:13:36] <Jymmm> I thoght each PLC was different, but no clue
[17:13:50] <tom3p> thr trick to .hal is ... its all wordy text files and no visualization. ive worked on a grfx frontend, and micges did same with an EAGLE ulp
[17:14:29] <Jymmm> I can do text np,
[17:14:41] <tom3p> CL as used in EMC has 3 languages , and the common one is 'LADDER' (lloks like old relay logic wiring diagrams)
[17:15:13] <Jymmm> and the other two are?
[17:15:17] <tom3p> but something as wide as Dallur's plasma, its hard to follow with just text, so grfx is handy
[17:16:18] <tom3p> the other two was Grafcet sorry just 2 http://membres.multimania.fr/mavati/classicladder/
[17:17:43] <tom3p> http://www.univ-valenciennes.fr/GDR-MACS/local/Cachan/Cachan/www.lurpa.ens-cachan.fr/grafcet.html
[17:18:09] <tom3p> seems this logic is very french
[17:18:17] <Jymmm> heh
[17:20:16] <sealive> good evening from germany
[17:20:55] <sealive> SWPadnos: are you here
[17:21:08] <Jymmm> tom3p: What I was thinking is getting one of those light poles, and make it flash YELLOW during an error, flash green when job was complete, etc
[17:22:23] <tom3p> yes, thosze tower lights are a great idea... helpme, feedme, imbusy good thing to know at a glance
[17:22:56] <tom3p> better grafcet http://www.plcdev.com/introduction_grafcets
[17:23:38] <Jymmm> tom3p: That's kinda why I was asking about a global, but no biggy.
[17:23:50] <sealive> i'am sitting right next to the mashine with the first emc config
[17:24:30] <sealive> the mashine moves but is not in perfect shape ! maybe my english understenading is not good enov
[17:24:58] <sealive> problem so far is the ho,ing on switches.
[17:25:32] <sealive> the mashine moves in all axis with the F3 perfekt in all tirections
[17:26:02] <sealive> hal meter detects correct the switches
[17:26:39] <markus> hey has somebody experience with G5.2 ?
[17:27:02] <cradek> experience is it doesn't work right
[17:27:36] <markus> so it dosn`t make sens to test it?
[17:27:36] <sealive> but if i want to make a referenc drive it moves in the other direction
[17:28:00] <sealive> stepconf is for Y in min end+ref
[17:28:08] <cradek> markus: maybe I didn't understand your question
[17:29:01] <sealive> so the mashine shoudt move to minus. if i understud it right
[17:29:15] <sealive> but it moves in positiv direction
[17:29:48] <sealive> i realy need your help
[17:30:46] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[17:38:59] <sealive> noone here that can guide me thru this
[17:43:00] <SWPadnos> sealive, change the sign of the home search velocity
[17:43:09] <SWPadnos> if it's +10, make it -10 (for example)
[17:44:50] <sealive> thanks
[17:47:16] <sealive> what shoud i choos for Z switch it is at the uper end so the mashine can only move in z negatic MAXend+ref z ?
[17:50:47] <sealive> and the homelocation is this the value the mashine moves to if the oming is finisht?
[17:51:36] <SWPadnos> I don't remember the exact names, but there are two settings that you may need to change
[17:52:15] <SWPadnos> one tells the position of the switch (I think this is HOME_OFFSET), the other tells emc where to move the machine after finding the switch (I think this is HOME_POSITION)
[17:53:20] <sealive> where are these
[17:53:32] <sealive> not in stepconf !
[17:53:41] <SWPadnos> I don't know if they are in stepconf
[17:53:54] <SWPadnos> the settings go in the ini file
[17:54:12] <sealive> mashine is up wait a sec i try
[17:55:12] <SWPadnos> home offset is there, home position is not
[17:55:27] <SWPadnos> I think it's labeled "Home Position", on each axis page
[17:55:52] <sealive> mashine does not move towards the switch
[17:56:04] <sealive> checking agasin stepconf
[17:56:15] <SWPadnos> does it move in the wrong direction?
[17:56:23] <sealive> yes
[17:56:27] <SWPadnos> remember that Z moving up is the plus direction
[17:56:40] <SWPadnos> so change the sign of the home velocity for the Z axis
[17:57:33] <sealive> no i only ecercise with Y
[17:58:12] <sealive> settings are for y home location 0
[17:58:37] <sealive> table travel -30 to 200
[17:58:51] <SWPadnos> you have to do these settings for each axis
[17:59:05] <sealive> home switch location -10
[17:59:21] <sealive> SWPadnos: yes i now
[17:59:49] <SWPadnos> ok. you asked about Z, then you said you were only doing Y - that confuses me
[18:01:56] <sealive> sorry i mada a success on y
[18:02:10] <sealive> :D
[18:04:06] <SWPadnos> ok. copy those numbers, but change them :)
[18:05:35] <sealive> i try to get the others now
[18:06:33] <sealive> i mounthed the X table in the wrong direction so ther is no hole for the pin that drives thru the switch
[18:13:52] <SWPadnos> oops
[18:14:01] <sealive> still working
[18:18:00] <sealive> X/Y are ok chrach in Z
[18:18:59] <sealive> it moved up ok toggeld the switch twis
[18:19:08] <sealive> but then moved up again
[18:23:11] <sealive> If you combine home and limit switches the home switch location can not be the same as the home position or you will get a joint limit error.
[18:23:39] <sealive> the home posicion is maybe at the wrong value
[18:24:26] <sealive> wher is this ini file located
[18:25:28] <sealive> got it
[18:28:07] <sealive> the home ofset of the Z axis is positiv while the other axis are negativ but they move after homing positiv
[18:30:44] <sealive> error join 2 (z) limit switch error
[18:37:35] <sealive> still someone there
[18:39:21] <sealive> Z axis stepconf values / Home location=0/table travel -60 to 3 DOES THIS matter in homing? / home switch location -3 / Home search 10/ same
[18:39:48] <sealive> the switch is in the positiv end of the z Axis
[18:40:08] <sealive> are these settings right?
[18:41:48] <clytle374> I think you need to move the home position away from the home/limit switch. But I'm really not sure, I'm still reading the manuals.
[18:43:21] <sealive> ther is only a home offset in the ini
[18:44:47] <sealive> got it
[18:44:55] <sealive> all homings are ok
[18:45:45] <atmega> for initial setup (using stopconf) should travels be 0" to n" or put 0 in the middle, or is one better than the other overall?
[18:46:47] <aa-danimal-shop> well got the belts on
[18:46:52] <aa-danimal-shop> seems to work fine
[18:47:18] <aa-danimal-shop> but i ordered a few spares of the proper type
[18:47:52] <tom3p> 2 belts?
[18:48:17] <aa-danimal-shop> yes
[18:48:50] <aa-danimal-shop> i couldnt get a 3/4" wide belt locally, so i got 2 x 3/8" belts to hold me over
[18:49:13] <atmega> did you add duct tape too?
[18:49:18] <sealive> what is the best example to test the mashine for the first time in the Example libary
[18:49:51] <tom3p> i dont know how you handle crawl , the tendancy to move to one side of pulley depending on direction. but watch em for awhile
[18:50:13] <aa-danimal-shop> dont be a douche atmega :)
[18:51:18] <atmega> I was kind of, but completely not, serious.
[18:51:29] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, i cant really watch it, they are well hidden
[18:51:50] <atmega> thinking of creep, or belt overlap, but the tape would not be a real solution.
[18:52:04] <tom3p> webcam :)
[18:52:14] <clytle374> aa-danimal-shop, how is a belt not as good as a flange?
[18:52:17] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: did you get a chance to email me your latest clp file for the turret?
[18:52:19] <aa-danimal-shop> there are c clips on the motor's gear
[18:52:43] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, i will right now
[18:52:49] <JT-Hardinge> ok, thanks Dan
[18:52:52] <sealive> can i change the scale of the EMC2Axis logo ?
[18:52:59] <aa-danimal-shop> not gunna do it the way that Kirk did it?
[18:53:16] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge goes back to moving a mountain with his backhoe
[18:53:22] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[18:53:27] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: I want ot explore both ways :)
[18:53:33] <JT-Hardinge> s/ot/to
[18:54:02] <aa-danimal-shop> carefull, you may excite Jymmm
[18:54:28] <aa-danimal-shop> :)
[18:56:05] <aa-danimal-shop> i cant believe i got the rotational timing of the home switch correct right off the bat
[18:56:20] <aa-danimal-shop> i just threw it in there and it worked
[18:56:54] <aa-danimal-shop> i thought i was gunna have to set up some pyvcp led's again to adjust it
[19:03:24] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge runs to town to get a 7/16 bolt to fix the backhoe right before I get too started digging :)
[19:04:05] <clytle374> ebay and paypal are worthless. I don't want my money back, I want those amps. They are mine, I won the auction and paid fair and square.
[19:14:45] <robotito> which was the problem?
[19:18:25] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, you got mail!
[19:18:41] <Jymmm> aa-danimal-shop: wth are you babbling about?
[19:19:37] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge expressed interest in exploring both ways, so i warned him to be careful as he might excite you
[19:19:53] <Jymmm> aa-danimal-shop: lame
[19:20:04] <aa-danimal-shop> :)
[19:22:04] <sealive> mashine is milling!!!!
[19:24:40] <Jymmm> ds3: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1637611475.html
[19:29:37] <sealive> XD XD thank you for your help All of you
[19:30:35] <sealive> one quest of hardware witch cooling vans do you use for cooliing down the drivers
[19:35:00] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek, i have belt and brush info/sizing for the HNC if you want it
[19:35:06] <aa-danimal-shop> congrats sealive
[19:36:09] <sealive> i'am here in germany
[19:36:44] <sealive> the cooler is 100mmby100mmby30
[19:36:55] <sealive> 4x4x1inch
[19:38:57] <cradek> aa-danimal-shop: cool, can you email it to me so I have it forever?
[19:44:27] <clytle374> aa-danimal-shop, I'd normally say that you can charge for info like that, but I'm guessing I'll need cradek's help later on. So it is good to share.
[19:45:27] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek, sure
[19:45:48] <aa-danimal-shop> clytle374, i owe him more than some part numbers :)
[19:45:51] <cradek> clytle374: you're new around here aren't you :-)
[19:46:16] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek, whats your email addy again?
[19:46:28] <cradek> chris@timeguy.com
[19:46:39] <aa-danimal-shop> ok, on it's way.
[19:46:56] <cradek> thanks!
[19:46:56] <clytle374> cradek, yep, still in the early stages. read the logs quite a bit back.
[19:47:05] <aa-danimal-shop> i took a brush out and measured it. i dont have part numbers for that yet, but i do for the belts
[19:47:22] <aa-danimal-shop> no prob
[19:47:32] <aa-danimal-shop> belts are cheap, like $4 each
[19:52:40] <frallzor> hey ries
[19:55:40] <ries> hey frallzor
[19:56:20] <ries> how are ya doing?
[19:56:34] <frallzor> goodie
[19:56:38] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/large/miIiVZtZs/
[19:56:40] <frallzor> porn :P
[19:56:48] <ries> I love porn!
[19:57:41] <ries> frallzor: pron in it's purest form indeed
[19:57:44] <ries> porn :s
[19:58:12] <Danimal-office> cradek, you got mail
[19:58:23] <frallzor> :P
[19:58:31] <frallzor> its all coming in place
[19:59:03] <ries> frallzor: good... glad to hear that! I am going to my machine nowdays once a week.... clients need my attention again :s
[19:59:22] <Danimal-office> frallzor, very nice!
[19:59:46] <Danimal-office> did you make all that, or buy it?
[19:59:57] <frallzor> well buy :P
[20:00:12] <frallzor> cant really say I could lasercut the part myself :P
[20:00:24] <Danimal-office> lol
[20:00:37] <frallzor> but I have the connections to get cheap labour so I use it :P
[20:01:13] <Danimal-office> is the bearing mounting hardware ecentric to adjust for slop?
[20:01:31] <frallzor> si
[20:01:49] <Danimal-office> makes sense
[20:02:35] <Danimal-office> why are the lights dimmed? were you two having a moment? lol
[20:02:52] <frallzor> dimmed? :P
[20:02:55] <frallzor> flash does that =)
[20:03:24] <Danimal-office> lol i know, just teasing
[20:03:38] <Danimal-office> because of the porn comment earlier
[20:04:11] <frallzor> I think I have to claim im pleased with it
[20:04:30] <Danimal-office> i would be too
[20:04:34] <Danimal-office> how much travel?
[20:04:42] <frallzor> No idea
[20:05:03] <Danimal-office> looks like a decent amount
[20:05:06] <frallzor> 250mm
[20:05:08] <frallzor> it seems
[20:05:32] <Danimal-office> thats good
[20:05:36] <frallzor> Im damn happy that the holes for the motor matched the ones in the gauge plate exactly at 4 places
[20:05:45] <frallzor> so just "plug and play" =)
[20:06:07] <Danimal-office> windows 98!
[20:06:47] <frallzor> heh I even made a small vid of me dragging the thing on the track :P
[20:07:13] <Danimal-office> lol nice
[20:07:25] <frallzor> I like documenting!
[20:07:33] <Danimal-office> man i just spent hours looking for my camera and i just realized it's on my tripod
[20:07:54] <Danimal-office> i'm horrible with documenting. i still dont know how i built my mill
[20:08:16] <Danimal-office> all i know is that there was beer involved
[20:09:57] <Jymmm> * Jymmm shakes his head
[20:10:26] <Danimal-office> says the guy who doesnt know what hal is :)
[20:10:45] <Jymmm> hal 9000
[20:12:08] <Danimal-office> i just dont know how you could be in here everyday for hours and have a emc'd machine and still not know hal basics lol
[20:12:47] <MattyMatt> lurking = shirking, not working. chatting is even worse :)
[20:13:00] <Danimal-office> lol
[20:13:30] <Danimal-office> granted i need some help with hal occasionally still
[20:13:46] <Danimal-office> it aint easy to get into
[20:14:38] <MattyMatt> It'll be time for me to learn that soon, although I've got a straight 3 axis machine so far
[20:15:27] <Danimal-office> what do you use if you dont use hal?
[20:16:54] <Danimal-office> i guess you really dont need to do anything with hal if you just use stepconfig or something
[20:17:02] <MattyMatt> nothing yet. just trying to install emc, but I'm getting bad files all the time. shame my old mobo won't boot from usb
[20:17:33] <Danimal-office> ahh
[20:17:42] <MattyMatt> I should put my dvd burner in, that's what I'm burning the CDs on
[20:19:48] <MattyMatt> this is why I like debian netinstall. once you've got the loader in, no more bad files
[20:21:46] <MattyMatt> I've got to the login on the live boot this time, but only after a stack of errors and an announcement that only default config is available
[20:23:42] <MattyMatt> ah yes, that's what I came to ask. What is the guest login name & pw on 8.04?
[20:24:12] <Jymmm> there isn't any
[20:25:17] <Danimal-office> on a similar note, i'm trying to access shared files on my windows network though my emc'd pc. everytime i try to open a folder, it asks for a network password, but i dont have one.
[20:25:36] <Danimal-office> any ways around that?
[20:25:56] <Jymmm> login as guest instead of current user - assumng that the windows share is ro by all
[20:26:30] <MattyMatt> it won't accept anything normal. root/root doesn't work which iirc is a 'cool ubuntu feature'
[20:26:47] <Jymmm> No, you use SUDO, not root
[20:27:11] <Jymmm> There is no login's in Ubuntu LiveCD
[20:27:53] <MattyMatt> there is on this one, presumably because of the broken config file on the CD
[20:27:56] <Danimal-office> how do you login as a guest?
[20:28:44] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: then replace the disc
[20:29:12] <MattyMatt> bleh. I haven't even attempted to use a windows network since the "network wizard" for win98 broke my samba domain
[20:29:24] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: DL the ISO, verify the MD5, then burn at 4x speed.
[20:31:38] <anonimasn> sudo su - works though :)
[20:31:53] <frallzor> tadaaa Danimal-office http://www.vimeo.com/10070111
[20:32:34] <MattyMatt> yeah next attempt will be 4x. last 2 were 10x on 52x disks
[20:34:33] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: did you verify the ISO?
[20:35:31] <MattyMatt> how often is that wrong?
[20:35:52] <anonimasn> very oftern
[20:35:53] <Jymmm> even times that you need to check it
[20:35:54] <anonimasn> often
[20:35:56] <MattyMatt> that would mean the hdd on the burning machine, or the internet is broken
[20:36:00] <Jymmm> s/even/enough/
[20:36:07] <anonimasn> the internet
[20:36:15] <Jymmm> d) all the above
[20:36:56] <MattyMatt> isn't there a crc on html downloads? hmm, I suppose not
[20:37:19] <anonimasn> it dosent matter..
[20:37:31] <anonimasn> it's wrong alot and makes all kinds of problems for people
[20:38:21] <anonimasn> and it's a stupid problem that's easy enough to fix :)
[20:43:13] <Danimal-office> frallzor, nice!
[20:43:28] <Danimal-office> is that your cell phone or your home phone?
[20:43:35] <Danimal-office> in the video
[20:43:36] <anonimasn> anyone good with python
[20:44:16] <Jymmm> anonimasn: jepler really SUCKS at python!!!!
[20:44:17] <frallzor> home phone
[20:44:32] <Danimal-office> i was gunna say, that thing is giant for a cell phone
[20:44:44] <anonimasn> yep :)
[20:45:42] <MattyMatt> md5 passes, and nero says it burns OK, so it must be the reader on the emc machine
[20:46:05] <MattyMatt> or these cheap CDs I buy :)
[20:46:32] <anonimasn> I've had problems where the verify on the burner dosent really verify so great
[20:47:47] <anonimasn> anonimasn is now known as anonimasu
[21:35:41] <alex_joni> http://failblog.org/2010/03/10/grammar-fail/
[21:43:50] <Jymmm> why didn't they cross out the apostrophe
[21:44:35] <cradek> LET'S EAT GRANDMA!
[21:45:01] <Jymmm> The lettuce ate granny????
[21:45:15] <cradek> (punch line of a joke I heard recently about why punctuation (commas in this case) are important)
[21:46:54] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek, did you get the email?
[21:47:00] <cradek> yes, thanks
[21:47:06] <aa-danimal-shop> i just set up that account so i dont know if it's working
[21:47:07] <Jymmm> A friend (who doesn't speak germany) was written up by HR when he sent an email to a co-worker in Germany and didn't use umlots (sp) in the person's name. the (dick) complained that it was racists for not doing so.
[21:47:09] <aa-danimal-shop> ok cool
[21:47:11] <aa-danimal-shop> no prob
[21:47:57] <aa-danimal-shop> racist? German isnt a race
[21:49:05] <Jymmm> talk about having a stick up his ass big time!
[21:49:40] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek, not sure if you saw, but the resolver/tach coupler on my z axis ballscrew came loose and the z axis ran away and snapped the belt
[21:49:57] <aa-danimal-shop> which is why i looked for new belts
[21:50:12] <aa-danimal-shop> the belt was pretty dryrotted anyways
[21:50:13] <cradek> ouch
[21:51:11] <aa-danimal-shop> do you know if there are any mechanical backlash adjustments on this machine? like thrust bearings that can be adjusted or something?
[21:51:55] <cradek> I think it has tapered gibs
[21:52:15] <cradek> I don't know about the ballscrew bearings but I know the nuts are a two circuits in a single nut
[21:52:57] <cradek> so you can adjust backlash in the nut only by replacing balls
[21:54:13] <aa-danimal-shop> ah ok
[21:54:24] <aa-danimal-shop> thanks
[21:54:29] <aa-danimal-shop> just curious
[21:55:41] <BlackMoon> afaik if you want 0 backlash with ballnuts you buy two and apply a serious spring preload beween the two
[21:56:01] <BlackMoon> the reason it works awsomely on ballnuts but not acme nuts is ballnuts have (idealy) 0 friction while acme.. well, much more then 0
[21:56:05] <cradek> no, you can easily have zero backlash by preloading one nut
[21:56:32] <aa-danimal-shop> sounds painful
[21:56:33] <cradek> better screws have two nuts with two circuits each, and you can adjust the spacing between the two nuts
[21:56:48] <BlackMoon> cradek: iv never really looked into that, how do you adjust it with one nut?
[21:56:50] <aa-danimal-shop> like feednuts on bridgeports
[21:57:02] <cradek> there might be some really terrible screws with one nut / one circuit, and in that case you probably can't do much
[21:57:10] <cradek> BlackMoon: adjusting ball size
[21:57:24] <BlackMoon> cradek: that sounds like so much NOT fun
[21:57:35] <BlackMoon> especialy if you consider the ballscrew might be a little worn somewhere
[21:57:37] <aa-danimal-shop> you usually have to send it out
[21:57:49] <cradek> aa-danimal-shop: speak for yourself :-)
[21:57:54] <aa-danimal-shop> i wouldnt mess with it
[21:58:02] <BlackMoon> I think id rather go with the two nut method myself :)
[21:58:18] <BlackMoon> are there any ballnuts with capative or easy to replace balls?
[21:58:28] <cradek> BlackMoon: normally the screw is harder than the nut, so the wear is in the nut. this makes backlash even over the whole travel. it's true you have to test that to confirm.
[21:58:29] <BlackMoon> iv read never take them off or you'll never get all the balls back in
[21:58:43] <Jymmm> BlackMoon: sure you can
[21:58:43] <BlackMoon> ah.
[21:58:54] <toastydeath> repacking ballnuts is doable, it's just a little bit of a pain
[21:59:05] <cradek> BlackMoon: some people just aren't good at stuff. that warning is probably good for them. :-)
[21:59:11] <Jymmm> toastydeath: only if they bounce off the table =)
[21:59:15] <toastydeath> hahahah
[21:59:18] <toastydeath> exactly
[21:59:21] <BlackMoon> iv seen ones with tubes on the outside, but I guess none of those tubes are removable for access?
[21:59:30] <Jymmm> toastydeath: big fluffy bath towel
[21:59:34] <BlackMoon> hah I lost a tiny ass ball bearing for my mouse last week
[21:59:37] <cradek> yes the return tubes always (?) come off
[21:59:40] <BlackMoon> used for the detent for the mouse wheel
[21:59:58] <BlackMoon> Thankfuly there was a conviently sized peice of weld splatter on the floor that was just the right size to replace it
[22:00:06] <Jymmm> lol
[22:00:13] <BlackMoon> Much easyer to find weld splatter in my shop then a 1mm ball bearing too
[22:00:47] <BlackMoon> streached the spring wayy out and now this mouse has enough detent strength to finaly stop scrolling 70% of the time I middle click
[22:00:48] <Jymmm> Much easier to find 0.01543575" ball bearing than weld spatter here.
[22:01:13] <toastydeath> in vaguely machine-related news, i just got a callback from a shop, i start monday at 8:30
[22:01:13] <BlackMoon> like how the hell am I supposed to open urls in a new tab when every click results in IE scrolling away from the url
[22:01:21] <toastydeath> 17/hr to start, 4 months renegotiate to 18-22/hr
[22:01:31] <BlackMoon> thats a fair starting wage
[22:01:42] <clytle374> What part of the world?
[22:01:51] <toastydeath> it's more than fair considering i'm a part time college student
[22:01:53] <BlackMoon> well in canada at least...
[22:01:53] <Jymmm> toastydeath: cool beans
[22:01:56] <toastydeath> east coast
[22:01:58] <toastydeath> usa
[22:02:07] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: oh, don't sell yourself short
[22:02:16] <BlackMoon> you can't live on much less.
[22:02:30] <toastydeath> well i just moved back in with my parents so it's almost entirely spending money
[22:02:44] <BlackMoon> consider working 8 hour days at min wage is only a couple dozen grand a year
[22:02:45] <toastydeath> it's a good deal
[22:02:56] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Or it's "save up and get the fsck out" money =)
[22:03:11] <toastydeath> Jymmm, it would be, but not going to happen
[22:03:18] <BlackMoon> $12000 for min wage, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year
[22:03:25] <toastydeath> I can't do school full time and live independently at the moment
[22:03:40] <Jymmm> toastydeath: roommmates
[22:03:53] <toastydeath> i guess, i'd rather live at home than get some idiot roommates
[22:04:05] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: save it or spend it on cool shit like an IH mill
[22:04:14] <toastydeath> my girlfriend's about to graduate, and she's considering getting one of our friends to do a roommate deal with
[22:04:17] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Or R(.) (.)mmates
[22:04:19] <BlackMoon> try not to waste too much on partys/alchole/drugs/women
[22:04:30] <BlackMoon> (in that order)
[22:04:45] <toastydeath> lol.
[22:05:10] <Jymmm> are these any good? http://images.craigslist.org/3k93o93l15T25P45R6a3a2dece72613411eac.jpg
[22:05:39] <BlackMoon> that looks like the drill powered one I have in the garage haha
[22:06:31] <BlackMoon> friend bought it for like $15 then we got a big ass bandsaw delivered here... just needs serious derusting and new blade guides
[22:06:44] <BlackMoon> do they still make blade guides with hexagoninal shafts?
[22:06:58] <BlackMoon> doesnt really matter I guess I can allways make my own hexagonical or whatever shafts
[22:12:40] <Jymmm> like using an old hex wrench
[22:23:01] <ries> frallzor: so what's next?
[22:36:31] <Jymmm> The search for intelligent life
[22:37:26] <frallzor> next...
[22:37:37] <frallzor> continue drilling rails and beams
[22:37:53] <frallzor> picked up a proper drill today
[22:38:22] <Jymmm> frallzor: drill press?
[22:38:44] <frallzor> nah, cant use one for this
[22:38:57] <Jymmm> bummer
[22:40:26] <frallzor> but at least I can say that the tricky part is over now
[22:43:20] <aa-danimal-shop> not even a magnetic base drill press?
[22:43:42] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/zip/1638117131.html
[22:44:10] <frallzor> overkill for these dimensions
[22:44:29] <frallzor> and no where attach it =)
[22:44:33] <frallzor> *nowhere
[22:44:40] <aa-danimal-shop> is that your dog Jymmm ?
[22:45:14] <Jymmm> No, just a posting I saw - rather find it a home than the pound
[22:45:45] <aa-danimal-shop> too many pitbulls around... the humane society is full of them
[22:46:28] <aa-danimal-shop> too many irresponsible owners i should say
[22:47:08] <aa-danimal-shop> and breeders
[22:47:52] <bill2or3> and they only get bought by the kind of person who wants a pitbull.
[22:48:01] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[22:48:07] <bill2or3> which is generally not a great kind of person.
[22:48:24] <bill2or3> and not prone to raising nice dogs, etc.
[22:48:44] <aa-danimal-shop> they get them because they look cool in rap videos
[22:48:59] <aa-danimal-shop> then realize they're actually alot of work
[22:49:06] <aa-danimal-shop> so they give them up
[22:49:34] <aa-danimal-shop> everytime i see a sign in someone's front yard that says pitbull puppies for sale, i wanna shoot them
[22:50:50] <aa-danimal-shop> i got nothing against the dogs, but i got something against breeding for money, especially given the overpopulation of those dogs, at least in this area
[22:50:56] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: Go there and be like 'these are just perfict! Boa won't go hungrey tonight!'
[22:51:19] <aa-danimal-shop> they'd sell them. they dont care
[22:51:21] <BlackMoon> anyone owning pitbulls for anything more then animal feed should be shot.
[22:51:31] <bill2or3> they'd say "you gots cash, right?"
[22:51:37] <aa-danimal-shop> pitbulls can be good dogs
[22:51:49] <BlackMoon> most retarded dog/owner combo iv ever seen.
[22:52:05] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: Except most are not, and generaly get bought by friggen morons who want 'a vicious dog'
[22:52:18] <bill2or3> well, those owners would be retarded regardless, the dog is just a symptom of that.
[22:52:33] <aa-danimal-shop> i wouldnt say most. i've known plenty of good ones
[22:53:00] <aa-danimal-shop> the bad ones are a product of bad breeding or irresponsible owners
[22:53:30] <BlackMoon> And god damn are they ulgy.
[22:53:34] <aa-danimal-shop> Akitas are far more dangerous IMHO and noone gives those dogs crap
[22:53:51] <BlackMoon> I also hate most of the small breeds/owners
[22:54:18] <bill2or3> blackmoon, totally ugly, and the dogs are only so-so.
[22:54:53] <aa-danimal-shop> hey my dog looks a little like a pit, and he is far from ugly
[22:55:06] <BlackMoon> Especialy considering what those little nippy dogs often do to babys
[22:55:09] <aa-danimal-shop> EVERYONE comments on how handsome he is
[22:55:22] <BlackMoon> (Basicly, eat thier limbs off)
[22:55:53] <aa-danimal-shop> he's a boxer/lab mix
[22:55:59] <aa-danimal-shop> brindle
[22:56:00] <BlackMoon> And then the owner wonders how the hell that ever happened with little fuufuu who never drew blood before! (in the 10,000 or so ankles hes nipped at)
[22:57:32] <BlackMoon> maybe the chiwawa ate your baby!
[22:57:32] <aa-danimal-shop> i have a semi small dog as well
[22:57:45] <aa-danimal-shop> my little shepard mix is 42lbs
[22:57:49] <BlackMoon> thats a good size
[22:58:08] <BlackMoon> over 20~30lbs and the dog can actualy hurt people so people actualy train it not to be a friggen retard
[22:58:21] <BlackMoon> under 20lbs and they treat it like some little doll that can get away with murder
[22:58:31] <BlackMoon> and yap all day/night long
[22:58:33] <BlackMoon> hate those dogs
[22:58:52] <BlackMoon> one size up and you get some of the best behaved dogs you can get.
[22:59:20] <aa-danimal-shop> yea my 70lb boxer/lab mix is damn near perfectly behaved
[22:59:45] <BlackMoon> 100lb+ dogs require some skills to train well, but generaly just love
[22:59:48] <aa-danimal-shop> the little one is a friggin trouble maker, but she's only 8 months old
[23:00:27] <BlackMoon> with a little bit of hard love when training to walk if they are strong headed -_-;
[23:00:54] <aa-danimal-shop> yea my little one pulls like a freight train on walks
[23:01:05] <BlackMoon> like, walking like you are a 1000lb steamroller when it comes to the end of the leash and the dog not paying attention
[23:01:12] <BlackMoon> not a yank but just a firm movement
[23:01:36] <BlackMoon> after a few months of that you'll get to the point where they constantly are aware how much leash they have and never get to the end
[23:01:57] <BlackMoon> its wonderful, sometimes you'll even forget the dog is on the leash because its just been slack for the past 30 mins
[23:02:04] <aa-danimal-shop> try telling my little dog that
[23:02:09] <aa-danimal-shop> she dont care
[23:02:16] <BlackMoon> haha, well they learn eventualy
[23:02:45] <aa-danimal-shop> she looks at me like "you aint got shit, bitch"
[23:02:57] <aa-danimal-shop> and goes back to pulling
[23:03:11] <BlackMoon> if they are constantly pulling ahead there is a kinda mean trick you can pull on them to break them out of it
[23:03:27] <BlackMoon> pull all the slack outta the leash with your other hand so your walking side by side
[23:03:35] <BlackMoon> then let it all go and start walking the other direction
[23:03:54] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[23:03:55] <BlackMoon> kinda mean but the dog learns really quick to pay attention to you and not try and run ahead
[23:04:16] <BlackMoon> Not really needed with a small dog but when you are training dogs that weigh as much as you do..
[23:04:41] <BlackMoon> worst dogwalk ever was one time in the snow my g/f left me at the corner with both my roitwilers
[23:04:44] <aa-danimal-shop> like i said she doesnt care.... the more i pull, the more she squats down to get some deep torque
[23:04:51] <BlackMoon> got within 30 feet from home
[23:05:04] <BlackMoon> and they BOTH bolt after the neighbors dog down his driveway at 60kph
[23:05:12] <aa-danimal-shop> haha
[23:05:17] <BlackMoon> and im attached
[23:05:22] <aa-danimal-shop> ouch
[23:05:41] <BlackMoon> just barly managed to throw myself on the other side of a tree to stop them after about 100' dash at at least 60% faster them im supposed to be able to run :P
[23:05:44] <BlackMoon> and snow, so I had 0 traction
[23:06:04] <BlackMoon> but yea
[23:06:11] <aa-danimal-shop> my dogs almost got me good once, i was trying to cross a little stream on a hike with them, and one goes running upstream, and the other ran down stream
[23:06:20] <BlackMoon> the point in changing directions is that when they get to the end of the leash it yanks at them, and they don't like that
[23:06:29] <BlackMoon> some times when pulling they think its actualy a game
[23:06:44] <BlackMoon> and as you said, will just like to pull harder
[23:06:52] <aa-danimal-shop> yanking doesnt work
[23:06:53] <BlackMoon> haha
[23:06:56] <aa-danimal-shop> not with her
[23:07:05] <BlackMoon> nah its not just yanking
[23:07:18] <BlackMoon> you gotta change direction and just walk away firmly like you are 10x as heavy as the dog is
[23:07:26] <aa-danimal-shop> i had to let go when they bolted up the stream... i almost fell on my face in the water
[23:07:40] <BlackMoon> and continue on in that direction like they made a big mistake by not paying attention
[23:07:56] <aa-danimal-shop> my big dog ran down stream for a few minutes and came back with a bloddy nose
[23:08:00] <BlackMoon> haha
[23:08:13] <aa-danimal-shop> i think he jumped off a waterfall and faceplanted or something
[23:08:21] <BlackMoon> fail lol
[23:08:29] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, he was bleeding good
[23:08:35] <aa-danimal-shop> dumbass
[23:08:46] <BlackMoon> iv seen a mother cat once take one claw to a dogs nose before
[23:09:01] <BlackMoon> just walked right up to it, pulled out one claw, sliced it down the nose and walked away like nothing happened
[23:09:08] <aa-danimal-shop> only cats out there are cougars
[23:09:18] <BlackMoon> dog ran away to top of our driveway and waited for its master to stop visiting us and pick it up -_-
[23:09:32] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[23:09:38] <BlackMoon> was a larger dog too
[23:09:42] <aa-danimal-shop> well i gotta get some work done, adios
[23:09:46] <BlackMoon> cya
[23:36:47] <aa-danimal-shop> cradek, i found a great place for the lathe's resistor
[23:37:48] <aa-danimal-shop> inside the base, on the right side, bolted to the rear pannel. Easy access to it, there is a pannel that comes off back there.
[23:38:12] <aa-danimal-shop> my vfd is in the right enclosure so it's nice and close to it
[23:42:45] <BlackMoon> nah what you should do is buy a big heating mat and use that under the lathe
[23:42:50] <BlackMoon> then you'll have nice warm feet
[23:43:06] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[23:43:19] <aa-danimal-shop> these resistors dont even get warm
[23:43:31] <aa-danimal-shop> they're huge
[23:43:31] <BlackMoon> But actualy that does raise a point, a big variable heat source next to the lathe headstock could cause some problems with really fine operations
[23:43:46] <BlackMoon> they don't get warm yet
[23:43:56] <aa-danimal-shop> they dont get warm at all
[23:44:02] <BlackMoon> how about when you start doing rapid metric threading with reverseing the lathe once a second?
[23:44:03] <aa-danimal-shop> i got the same ones on my mill
[23:44:29] <aa-danimal-shop> they're 2.2kw resistors
[23:44:33] <BlackMoon> they heat up more the more often you stop
[23:44:49] <BlackMoon> 2.2kW at 220C or something insane surface temp sure :)
[23:45:03] <BlackMoon> but yea thats a pertty good rating
[23:45:16] <BlackMoon> assuming standard 2hp motor
[23:45:21] <aa-danimal-shop> i know, but trust me, they dont get warm. i sat there and went fwd/rev fwd/rev etc... for a few minutes continuously
[23:45:35] <BlackMoon> cool
[23:45:45] <BlackMoon> wait they arnt getting warm at all?
[23:45:52] <BlackMoon> they should at least get like body temp
[23:46:01] <aa-danimal-shop> not really, maybe 1 or 2 degrees higher than room temp
[23:46:07] <BlackMoon> unless you havent set your VFD to brake fast
[23:46:20] <aa-danimal-shop> it stops immediately
[23:46:20] <BlackMoon> how fast does your lathe stop with the VFD?
[23:46:30] <aa-danimal-shop> dunno, i'm installing it now
[23:46:42] <BlackMoon> well lathe has much more momentium then a mill :)
[23:47:16] <BlackMoon> iv heard of people managing to squeel the belts with VFD resistor braking
[23:47:54] <aa-danimal-shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9Z6Dkx8YeI
[23:48:01] <aa-danimal-shop> my mill, from 4000rpm
[23:48:20] <aa-danimal-shop> my lathe's spindle is probably not much heavier than my mill
[23:48:24] <BlackMoon> yea thats not instant at all
[23:48:41] <BlackMoon> I mean shit my mill slows down about that fast and its a single phase motor
[23:48:51] <BlackMoon> without braking
[23:49:02] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, my mill probably has 75lbs of rotating weight
[23:49:05] <BlackMoon> really you could adjust the VFD deaccel time WAYYY faster
[23:49:17] <aa-danimal-shop> it takes a LONG time to slow down normally
[23:49:24] <aa-danimal-shop> no, i cant
[23:49:27] <BlackMoon> yea and im saying, your braking resistors are not getting hot.. so assuming you did'nt buy wayy to high of ohmage, you just have the VFD set wrong
[23:49:36] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[23:49:40] <BlackMoon> my lathe CHUCk is 75lbs
[23:49:52] <BlackMoon> let alone the spindle, gearbox, motor rotar, etc
[23:50:19] <aa-danimal-shop> with the resistors i have plus the braking unit, i have 100% braking torque
[23:50:26] <aa-danimal-shop> on that mill
[23:50:29] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop your mill goes 4000 RPM?
[23:50:45] <aa-danimal-shop> decell is set at .05
[23:50:54] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, yes
[23:51:20] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop you must use some awfully small tools on it
[23:51:38] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, that motor is also running at 120hz
[23:52:02] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, 4000 is about 1/4 of what i need
[23:52:22] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop planning on using a lot smaller tools are you?
[23:52:36] <aa-danimal-shop> i cut alot of aluminum, and i run tools between 1/16" and 1/2"
[23:52:53] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: you have 100% braking torque but you'll only be using it if the VFD is set just right.
[23:53:23] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, if it's set any more agressive, it'll fault
[23:53:32] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop yeah I don't like aluminum
[23:53:41] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: ah.
[23:54:05] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, it's only a 3hp motor. that's alot of weight to stop that quickly
[23:54:20] <aa-danimal-shop> not too good for the motor
[23:54:43] <aa-danimal-shop> plus it's running at twice the rated rpm
[23:54:59] <BlackMoon> ah. well high rpms are a pain.
[23:55:15] <aa-danimal-shop> it's running at 120hz in that video
[23:55:23] <BlackMoon> on the lathe its often easyer since you can slow down before the end of a threading pass or whatever you need to stop at
[23:55:24] <pfred1> /sub aa-danimal-shop speedy_gonzales
[23:56:12] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, this mill has vari drive on it... the pulleys are like 9" of cast iron
[23:56:13] <BlackMoon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q_q53wsyHU I hate trying to stop near a shoulder with slow ass deaccel :(
[23:56:21] <BlackMoon> ahh haha
[23:56:50] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: make sure to keep those bushings in check
[23:57:10] <pfred1> I'm getting closer with my port buffer board
[23:57:11] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm ditching the vari drive soon. i'm going to a gear belt
[23:57:19] <BlackMoon> thats cool.
[23:57:25] <pfred1> http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5089/ppbbbrd2.png
[23:57:27] <BlackMoon> new head or hacking it onto the old one?
[23:57:33] <aa-danimal-shop> hacking
[23:57:53] <BlackMoon> yea with a VFD you really only need a backgear
[23:57:55] <aa-danimal-shop> nice pfred1
[23:58:06] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop oh thanks it looks doable to me
[23:58:12] <BlackMoon> and belt to deal with alignment/whathave you
[23:58:17] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i'll keep the back gear, but honestly, i dont use anything bigger than 1/2"
[23:58:37] <BlackMoon> Yea, but of course the second you remove it you'll get into flycutters or something
[23:58:43] <aa-danimal-shop> na
[23:58:46] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I'm going to hand wire it on perfboard but doing the art still helps me out
[23:58:51] <aa-danimal-shop> i make the same parts day in and day out
[23:58:59] <BlackMoon> oh?
[23:59:08] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, i bet. i wish i was good at that stuff
[23:59:09] <BlackMoon> well, sliting saws maybe. :P
[23:59:23] <BlackMoon> but you know what I mean anyway
[23:59:28] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I been messing wiht electronics since i was about 7 years old
[23:59:29] <BlackMoon> allways a job too big.
[23:59:29] <aa-danimal-shop> yea i hear ya
[23:59:41] <aa-danimal-shop> but i got another mill
[23:59:45] <BlackMoon> ah thats cool.
[23:59:52] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1638210863.html