#emc | Logs for 2010-03-09

[00:00:36] <Kirk_Wallace> aa-danimal-shop : Yes, I think so, last night. I don't know how to use IRC and I'm fumbling a bit.
[00:01:51] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace join the club
[00:01:59] <tom3p> Kirk_Wallace, good going, no need to compile :)
[00:06:27] <Kirk_Wallace> tom3p : my scale value is off, so I get more output than the limits allow. It makes it so the knob position, let's say 50%, is different if I turn clock wise from when I turn counter-counter clockwise.
[00:06:37] <tom3p> andypugh, great vid
[00:06:47] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, all i know is type letters and hit enter
[00:07:14] <andypugh> It all felt so wild and wacky back when we were young :-/
[00:07:43] <aa-danimal-shop> lol that video is weird
[00:07:54] <aa-danimal-shop> some alcohol involved in that i net
[00:08:00] <aa-danimal-shop> bet*
[00:08:15] <andypugh> Yes, really rather a lot, most of the time.
[00:09:12] <aa-danimal-shop> sounds like college to me
[00:09:12] <andypugh> If you look carefully you can spot SImon Singh, who went on to write books (about Codes, Fermat's last theorem etc)
[00:09:26] <andypugh> Yes, Imperial College London.
[00:09:45] <aa-danimal-shop> i wish i went to college
[00:09:58] <aa-danimal-shop> drinking without college really just seems like alcoholism
[00:10:13] <andypugh> :-)
[00:13:33] <tom3p> i told nephews not to do stupid things around cameras, maybe i was wrong
[00:13:48] <tom3p> that waa great
[00:14:06] <pfred1> tom3p today that'd be everywhere
[00:14:15] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[00:16:19] <Kirk_Wallace> tom3p : I set the scale to match 0 to 1024 input to 0 to 120% or actually 0 to 1.2, AXIS still starts at 100% and increments or decrements until I cross the 1024 , 0 border.
[00:17:25] <aa-danimal-shop> done EVER use ipower for web hosting or domain names. My domain was up for auto renewal, and i told them i did NOT want it renewed, twice. They auto renewed it anyways, and seized the domain when i called them and wanted a refund, even though it wasnt expired yet. When i asked why, they just said it was their policy.
[00:17:38] <aa-danimal-shop> dont*
[00:17:47] <aa-danimal-shop> scumbags
[00:18:11] <Kirk_Wallace> tom3p : I think I need to have AXIS set the spin override to the encoder at start up, some how.
[00:21:42] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop they really took their name literally didn't they?
[00:22:46] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, i guess so
[00:23:06] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I power you weakling all your domain belong to us!
[00:23:54] <aa-danimal-shop> they're trying to force me into paying for it
[00:24:03] <aa-danimal-shop> they think i still want that domain
[00:24:08] <aa-danimal-shop> i dont
[00:24:22] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop what part of cancel didn't they understand?
[00:25:08] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, they do it intentionally
[00:25:17] <aa-danimal-shop> i found that out after the fact
[00:25:35] <aa-danimal-shop> if you google them, there's miles of complaints about this
[00:25:43] <aa-danimal-shop> my fault i guess
[00:25:46] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop http://www.dyndns.com/
[00:26:33] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop least if they double your bill its still 0
[00:27:31] <andypugh> G'night folks
[00:27:43] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[00:27:48] <aa-danimal-shop> thanks pfred1
[00:28:02] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop i just heard about it its what a lot of people use
[00:28:19] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop you can have a dynamic IP and it still resolves
[00:29:32] <aa-danimal-shop> cool, i dont know what that means, but it sounds good
[00:30:01] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I've heard a lot about it seen it in Linux howtos maybe there's a catch but it is worth looking into
[00:30:34] <pfred1> http://www.dyndns.com/services/dns/dyndns/
[00:30:49] <pfred1> Get five (5) hostnames in 88 available domains for free.
[00:31:40] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I don't know how bigtime you are but it may work out for you
[00:31:50] <pfred1> Query volume up to 648,000 queries/month
[00:32:00] <aa-danimal-shop> lol i'm not big time at all
[00:32:09] <aa-danimal-shop> thanks for the info
[00:32:12] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop then this might be a great fit for you
[00:32:17] <aa-danimal-shop> i'll check it out
[00:32:28] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe
[00:32:55] <aa-danimal-shop> i only get like 120 hits a day
[00:33:21] <Kirk_Wallace> I got no-ip.com in order to host sites from a dynamic IP, it turns out it comes in handy for static hosts too.
[00:33:25] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop that times 31 still doesn't come close to 648,000 but it might be every page load I don't know
[00:34:39] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop I mean these guys don't host it just resolves an Ip to a domain name
[00:36:16] <Kirk_Wallace> That's what no-ip.com does too. It would be more convenient if they hosted, but ces't la vie.
[00:36:56] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace running apache on Linux is trivial
[00:39:43] <Kirk_Wallace> Yes, but my Internet connection keeps changing. I had a dynamic wifi connection, then T1 for a while, now wifi that won't map through to me.
[00:39:52] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop reading the readme its almost like this place is a crack dealer the first hit is free anything else costs
[00:41:18] <BlackMoon> AFAIK your DNS would only be queried apon first connect
[00:41:36] <BlackMoon> And possabley not even that often with the way ISP's cache DNS values and shit
[00:41:45] <pfred1> BlackMoon you know the poop on htis place?
[00:42:00] <pfred1> BlackMoon i just heard about it like a million places
[00:42:10] <BlackMoon> the noip services? iv heard there pertty good
[00:42:21] <BlackMoon> Don't bother with 'free' ones, theres allways a nasty catch
[00:42:36] <BlackMoon> like, holding your domain name rasom the second you get popular enough to get 1 single complaint
[00:42:44] <BlackMoon> (godaddy does that)
[00:43:24] <BlackMoon> Littarly they lock your domain name and refuse to release it without some 'processing' charge to confirm the complaint was illigitimant or some BS like that.
[00:43:32] <pfred1> BlackMoon that seems to be what just happened to aa-danimal-shop
[00:43:47] <aa-danimal-shop> yea except i didnt have any complaints
[00:44:04] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop it was just your time to pay
[00:44:08] <aa-danimal-shop> they locked it without reason
[00:44:17] <aa-danimal-shop> i paid for it in the first place
[00:44:21] <BlackMoon> oh? who where you being serviced by?
[00:44:27] <aa-danimal-shop> ipower
[00:44:27] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop no, they locked it because everyone loves money
[00:44:36] <BlackMoon> and by serviced I mean the euphemism
[00:44:43] <BlackMoon> wtf is ipower
[00:45:07] <aa-danimal-shop> pretty big web hosting company. they own a good majority of other hosting companies too
[00:45:14] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: Heh, godaddy will lock any site with the complaint of porn without even looking at the site.
[00:45:17] <pfred1> BlackMoon whoever can run bind thinks they have da powah!
[00:45:57] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: to bad its not worth taking such scum to coart.
[00:46:51] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, i'm planning on fighting it as much as possible, just out of principle
[00:47:16] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop thats the thing dyndns doesn't host anything all they do is resolve a dynamic IP to a URL
[00:47:19] <aa-danimal-shop> i already filed a complaint with my bank for fraudulant charges
[00:47:29] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: sounds good.
[00:47:45] <BlackMoon> actualy what you shoulda done was paid them the money to get control of your DNS name back
[00:47:51] <BlackMoon> THEN reverse the charges on your credit card
[00:48:42] <BlackMoon> Don't forget the BBB if they have bothered to list with them, Not that they ever did shit when I complained about a website selling 100% fake audio products and removing my negative reviews of them
[00:49:06] <pfred1> BlackMoon whats a fake audio product?
[00:49:08] <aa-danimal-shop> worse case scenario, i'll be flying into their town in August, and i'll pay them a friendly visit
[00:49:10] <BlackMoon> (like stupid plastic boxes you stick ontop of your stere to make it 'infinately' better
[00:49:22] <BlackMoon> Not even fancy cables and shit.
[00:49:32] <BlackMoon> those at least in thoery could do something.. if you listened to RF and not AF
[00:49:42] <aa-danimal-shop> find the guy with the nicest car in a reserved parking spot and fuck him up
[00:49:58] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: lol
[00:50:10] <BlackMoon> too bad they have your billing information and shit
[00:50:20] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm flying out there for a family reunion, so it's on my to-do list
[00:50:23] <BlackMoon> if it was just paid via paypal you coulda like spraypainted the domain name on the CEO's car
[00:51:06] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, it's strictly for my entertainment, they wont even know who i am. It's not like they dont pull the same crap with everyone
[00:51:22] <BlackMoon> 'Stop stealing domain names or your tires get it!'
[00:51:39] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop whoever runs the company goes no where near it I'm sure
[00:51:40] <BlackMoon> Actualy did you ever see that pyrolysis video on car tires?
[00:52:05] <aa-danimal-shop> i wasnt going to mess with the car, i was going to go after the owner of the car
[00:52:21] <BlackMoon> Apparently if you induce some localised heating in a car tire, about 2 mins later its pressure will have risen to over 500psi and explode as the inside of the tire reacts and breaks down due to pyrolysis
[00:52:48] <BlackMoon> 500psi over the area of a car tire is enough to basicly remove whole fenders/wheel wells with ease
[00:53:02] <aa-danimal-shop> how much heat do you need for that?
[00:53:12] <BlackMoon> apparently only a couple seconds with a stick welder was all that was needed
[00:54:07] <pfred1> just get a lock and a chain and boot the guys car
[00:54:20] <pfred1> like lock the chain through the rim
[00:54:31] <BlackMoon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBUVzgCHHuA&feature=player_embedded#
[00:54:35] <pfred1> do it onthe passenger side rear so they don't see it ant take off
[00:54:56] <BlackMoon> video about the danger
[00:55:01] <pfred1> but i bet the place had razor wire power gate for parking
[00:57:12] <BlackMoon> lol
[00:57:25] <BlackMoon> I bet there isent even a place.
[00:57:37] <BlackMoon> couple fat stinky geeks working from home with a couple colo servers
[00:58:03] <BlackMoon> company address is thier PO box on the corner of nowhere and hicksvill
[00:58:26] <pfred1> BlackMoon yeah just try to find 1 microsoft way on a road map
[00:59:15] <BlackMoon> microsoft does a little more the host websites but whatever.
[00:59:47] <pfred1> its still a bogus mail drop address
[01:00:10] <BlackMoon> oh, lols
[01:00:30] <BlackMoon> did you hear some loan nutjob tryed to assult the pentagon recently??
[01:00:36] <pfred1> maybe ther eis one now but when i looked years ago the road didn't exist
[01:00:43] <BlackMoon> I guess bluring out all those google map photos of it was not effective after all :(
[01:01:19] <BlackMoon> I do like his spirit though. Go right to the top!
[01:01:32] <pfred1> people are nuts
[01:01:58] <BlackMoon> No, people are made nuts. theres a diffrence.
[01:02:19] <BlackMoon> Well, some just go nuts on thier own more or less, but having some services funded to deal with them sure would help.
[01:03:05] <BlackMoon> last time they closed a mental institute here, most of the paitents where just.. set free.
[01:03:14] <BlackMoon> off to roam the streets!
[01:03:37] <BlackMoon> because a bean counter decided keeping them away from the rest of us was not profitable enough :(
[01:03:58] <pfred1> find me a sane person and I'll show you a real screwball
[01:04:22] <BlackMoon> yadayada, but im talking about the REAL crazys
[01:04:31] <pfred1> so am I!
[01:04:59] <BlackMoon> the ones who think god is talking to them on a 2 way radio and instructing them on how to make <insert rival religion of the day> into hamburgers
[01:05:52] <pfred1> BlackMoon hey I'm sitting here trying to make a CNC machine out of junk who am I to judge?
[01:06:29] <BlackMoon> pfred1: as long as your not trying to CNC your imaginary friends likeness into the forhead of the non believers, your ok my my book.
[01:06:54] <BlackMoon> though that would be one of the more intresting things a religious nutjob could do.
[01:07:10] <pfred1> BlackMoon hey if when i get this thing done is can scribble randomly on a piece of paper I'll be thrilled!
[01:07:23] <BlackMoon> lol
[01:07:42] <pfred1> * pfred1 aims low ...
[01:08:51] <pfred1> I wonder if there is a non inverting schmitt buffer?
[01:10:24] <pfred1> yes there is but its not likely i just happen to have one laying around!
[01:11:20] <BlackMoon> Keep your expectations low and you will never be disappointed.
[01:12:31] <pfred1> oh boy I guess its use 7414s and run the out to an in I suppose ....
[01:13:04] <pfred1> hey emc can invert logic can't it?
[01:13:29] <pfred1> like emc doesn't care if something is high or low just the change of states
[01:14:35] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon shrugs
[01:14:53] <BlackMoon> I just came here cause renesis told me you guys knew CNC shit. iv never used EMC.
[01:14:57] <pfred1> I'm doing the inputs now on my buffer board
[01:15:23] <pfred1> and they're going to be different than all of the outputs
[01:16:01] <pfred1> I'm starting to come around to the idea that I shouldn't evne use a 74245 in this part
[01:16:38] <pfred1> its sort of redundant
[01:17:49] <BlackMoon> you only need schmitt inputs if you have a slow slew rate signal (ie sine wave or something) to a digital input
[01:18:04] <BlackMoon> or if you have some serious noise problems, combined with an RC filter they can be effective
[01:18:15] <BlackMoon> On thier own they won't be much better then standard input logic given a digital signal
[01:18:51] <BlackMoon> And typicaly an RC filter to a standard digital input works well enough.
[01:18:55] <pfred1> yeah i like them because you're guaranteed states I used them effectively behind optocouplers that output not too squared up
[01:19:16] <BlackMoon> Yea optocouplers are pertty slow output
[01:19:27] <pfred1> and I'm definately coupling these
[01:19:35] <BlackMoon> you can get digital ones but they probley arnt much more then an analog+schmitt anyway
[01:19:54] <pfred1> el computero is not getting electrically coupled to this part of the circuit
[01:20:01] <BlackMoon> Note, if you don't have a strong pullup on an optocoupler output, its turn off can be very slow and delayed
[01:20:10] <BlackMoon> (couple mS anyway)
[01:20:24] <BlackMoon> ie like 1k to 5v = strong.
[01:20:28] <BlackMoon> 100k = piss weak
[01:20:54] <BlackMoon> (of course, more led current is required with stronger output pullup)
[01:21:19] <BlackMoon> Make sure to really saturate the output transistor too, because optocouplers are known to lose gain with age.
[01:22:06] <BlackMoon> And you don't want I/O's suddenly not reaching proper levels after a few years due to a optocoupler losing gain
[01:23:00] <pfred1> I used this circuit effectively to decouple the controls of my stepper motor drivers: http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6928/optoschemo.png
[01:23:21] <pfred1> before i put that in running two together they ran bad
[01:23:38] <pfred1> afterwards it cleared them right up
[01:23:44] <BlackMoon> you know you can just as easily invert the input to an optocoupler
[01:23:49] <BlackMoon> Or the output
[01:24:11] <BlackMoon> swap the trasistor and output resistors positions from gnd/vcc, and its output is now inverse
[01:24:24] <BlackMoon> Also, if you move the led from gnd to VCC, the output will also invert
[01:24:56] <BlackMoon> (digital outputs can often sink and source current, though some logic series won't sink and source with the same current limits, Most do)
[01:24:57] <pfred1> yeah I'm starting to gel how I'm going to do this part of my circuit
[01:25:17] <pfred1> most sink more than they can source
[01:25:36] <BlackMoon> Of ones that are uneven yes, but most modren logic is balanced
[01:25:44] <pfred1> but here its not an issue really I'm only driving the parallel port ofthe PC
[01:25:45] <BlackMoon> see: 74HC series
[01:25:55] <pfred1> yeah I'm using HTC mostly
[01:26:08] <pfred1> HCT even
[01:26:10] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: got the belt changed
[01:26:13] <BlackMoon> you really don't need the T
[01:26:21] <BlackMoon> HC series chips are more flexable
[01:26:35] <pfred1> its what I have
[01:26:38] <BlackMoon> wider voltage range.. more standard I/O levels, and will interface just about anything TTL 99% of the time
[01:26:45] <BlackMoon> Yea, but in the future buy HC over HCT
[01:27:03] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, nice!
[01:27:08] <aa-danimal-shop> was it a pita?
[01:27:15] <BlackMoon> Theres really no reason to buy HCT unless you have some REALLY old 74XXX series logic (origional TTL) with really loaded outputs you gotta interface
[01:27:41] <pfred1> BlackMoon that is an accurate description of what I'm usually doing
[01:27:43] <BlackMoon> even HC will interface 74xxx series logic no problem if the 74xxx series outputs are not heavily loaded
[01:28:35] <BlackMoon> Oh ok.
[01:29:42] <pfred1> BlackMoon did you ever see my homemade motor driver?
[01:29:48] <BlackMoon> nope.
[01:29:54] <BlackMoon> http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/philips/74HCU.pdf some good generic logic reading :)
[01:30:01] <pfred1> http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6498/stepproto1.jpg
[01:30:29] <BlackMoon> includes some intresting specs like the typical 74HC chip is only rated for 50 or 75mA through VCC or ground
[01:32:10] <BlackMoon> srs breadboarding hehe
[01:32:14] <pfred1> BlackMoon the next one i make won't have that dopy daughter board floating on top of it
[01:32:34] <BlackMoon> PS take it from me, breadboards, not good for more then an amp, unless you like melting contact rows outta your breadboard
[01:33:30] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: kinda at first but once I got it all apart it got easier
[01:33:52] <pfred1> I think if you melted a breadboard you were either running more thn an amp or had a very bad connection
[01:33:56] <BlackMoon> Why so many IC's?
[01:34:07] <BlackMoon> way more then an amp, but yea :P
[01:34:08] <pfred1> BlackMoon step sequencer
[01:34:09] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, i'm not looking forward to it
[01:34:12] <JT-Hardinge> the pulleys were somewhat corroded
[01:34:18] <BlackMoon> pfred1: lol discreat logic.
[01:34:21] <JT-Hardinge> does your look like mine?
[01:34:27] <BlackMoon> ya know they make IC's for that.. and microcontrollers.
[01:34:28] <aa-danimal-shop> i just had to pull the spindle out of my manual lathe. it keeps seizing up in low gear
[01:34:41] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: shitty :(
[01:34:49] <pfred1> BlackMoon but why bother for a dollars worth of logic?
[01:34:53] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, i dont know, did you take any pictures of that area?
[01:35:02] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, tell me about it.
[01:35:03] <JT-Hardinge> yea just a sec
[01:35:11] <BlackMoon> pfred1: Cause its only a dollars worth of uC? and you used $20 worth of breadboards and wire? :P
[01:35:13] <aa-danimal-shop> it is 100 years old, i suppose it lived a good life
[01:35:43] <BlackMoon> iv wanted to make logic monstrositys but never gotten around to it, too much work
[01:35:53] <BlackMoon> though making FPGA stuff is very similar and close and fun
[01:36:08] <JT-Hardinge> http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/?action=view&current=x-axis-encoder.jpg
[01:36:14] <pfred1> BlackMoon like this? http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7615/p7100104.jpg
[01:36:25] <BlackMoon> haha nice
[01:36:32] <JT-Hardinge> Dan, your look like that?
[01:36:38] <pfred1> BlackMoon that whole board drew like 5 amps running
[01:36:39] <JT-Hardinge> yours
[01:36:57] <BlackMoon> pfred1: I blame your floating inputs :)
[01:37:19] <pfred1> BlackMoon the displays aren't in the picture
[01:37:25] <BlackMoon> ah
[01:37:35] <pfred1> BlackMoon http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1643/p7100090.jpg
[01:37:49] <BlackMoon> hahahah
[01:38:11] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, it looks pretty similar
[01:38:16] <pfred1> BlackMoon that hooked up to the connectors that are floating in the air of the breadboard
[01:38:16] <aa-danimal-shop> might be the same
[01:38:21] <tom3p> JT-Hardinge, wow get some shrink wrap on those connectors or close the door. that looks scary for an encoder connection
[01:38:27] <BlackMoon> I made a 4x7 segment led display once
[01:38:32] <BlackMoon> but mine was all discreat transistors
[01:38:51] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, they get covered by a big cover
[01:38:53] <BlackMoon> little pcb with 12 TO-92's cramed onto it
[01:38:58] <aa-danimal-shop> all siliconed up
[01:39:10] <BlackMoon> and like 24 resistors or something
[01:39:25] <BlackMoon> I allways love to stand my resistors on end..
[01:39:29] <BlackMoon> saves space
[01:39:34] <JT-Hardinge> then loosen the encoder coupling and remove the encoder then the encoder mount
[01:39:40] <BlackMoon> lets you get insane density.. unless you need to jump over something
[01:39:48] <JT-Hardinge> loosen the tacho coupling and remove it
[01:40:23] <JT-Hardinge> take the motor mount bolts out (next to motor pulley) and pull the motor back enough to remove the coupling
[01:40:31] <JT-Hardinge> change the belt and reverse
[01:40:40] <icaro_> icaro_ is now known as icaro
[01:40:57] <aa-danimal-shop> doesnt sound too bad
[01:41:18] <aa-danimal-shop> i had it down to the point you're showing in the picture
[01:41:19] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop sacrifice a virgin to the PB Blaster God!
[01:41:23] <aa-danimal-shop> but i put it back together
[01:41:40] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[01:42:10] <BlackMoon> wow thats a lot of open connections in that X axis box.
[01:43:09] <pfred1> OK I got to ask what is that clear tube running out of that spray can cap looking yellow thing?
[01:44:06] <BlackMoon> im betting $5 on coolant return from the table
[01:45:04] <pfred1> BlackMoon machinists should stay away from wiring!
[01:45:46] <BlackMoon> yea someday im gonna watch some lathe turnings of mine fly into the power bar behind the lathe and short out my shoplights, then watch my lathe crash in the dark as I stumble for the controls
[01:45:55] <JT-Hardinge> spin motor exhaust
[01:46:05] <BlackMoon> JT-Hardinge? wha?
[01:46:27] <BlackMoon> your motor has a tiny exhaust tube?
[01:46:31] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge that tube is an air duct?
[01:46:45] <aa-danimal-shop> the turret motor exhaust. it's a pneumatic motor
[01:46:52] <pfred1> oh
[01:46:54] <BlackMoon> oh.
[01:47:04] <aa-danimal-shop> oh..
[01:47:04] <BlackMoon> oh, to direct the stray oils and shit
[01:47:25] <aa-danimal-shop> well hopefully no shit, or you got bigger issues
[01:47:42] <BlackMoon> heh, well, stray oil that makes it through
[01:47:56] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop reminds me of when i was doing my pool strainer and I was like no I don't want to go in the pool with electrical tools so I grabbed a pneumatic drill
[01:47:57] <BlackMoon> and washs the motor out in the process..
[01:48:08] <BlackMoon> pfred1: haha cool.
[01:48:26] <aa-danimal-shop> pfred1, pussy! lol
[01:48:38] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop hey it worked pretty good under water
[01:48:48] <BlackMoon> http://www.failblog.biz/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/pool-fail.jpg
[01:48:50] <BlackMoon> see its all safe..
[01:49:04] <BlackMoon> Even in europe where they use 240v!
[01:49:24] <pfred1> http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4994/pooldone.jpg
[01:49:46] <BlackMoon> nice
[01:49:57] <pfred1> BlackMoon ta
[01:50:20] <clytle374> got my homerolled kernel built to find out isolcpus is broken in ah
[01:50:53] <pfred1> clytle374 welcome to the bleeding edge bandages are in the corner ...
[01:53:48] <clytle374> Done it long enough I'm used to it, but this has been excessively ugly.
[01:54:05] <BlackMoon> clytle374: PS: mind the sharp corner.
[01:54:14] <pfred1> clytle374 I let the other guy beta test new code
[01:55:49] <pfred1> I'm scrapping this one 74245 I think i was getting chip happy when I threw it on the schematic
[01:56:10] <clytle374> It isn't a new kernel either. Just getting a string of bad luck. I can build and use stable kernels for normal desktops in my sleep.
[01:56:40] <pfred1> clytle374 not me they just get more and more confusing I don't know what a tenth of al lthe options mean anymore
[01:56:43] <clytle374> And I've found a contradiction in the yaskawa manuals on the encoder cables.
[01:56:55] <pfred1> clytle374 I read the help and just get more confused!
[01:59:17] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge thinks he better connect the limit switches before he forgets
[02:00:40] <clytle374> So one page of the yaskawa book shows 5V on pin 4,5,6 and 0V on pin 1,2,3 and another shows 5V on pin 5 and 0V on 1,2,3,4,6
[02:02:49] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge wonders what the difference is between axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in and axis.0.neg-hard-limit?
[02:04:29] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe it throws it into estop with the hard limit
[02:04:47] <JT-Hardinge> never mind I know now
[02:04:50] <JT-Hardinge> hard-limit is an outty
[02:05:55] <pfred1> clytle374 you're just missing the errata page is all
[02:07:15] <aa-danimal-shop> ahh
[02:09:31] <clytle374> Yep, the newer manual has it corrected.
[02:10:17] <clytle374> I was using a howto off the net, glad I double checked the guy
[02:10:41] <clytle374> Shorting the encoder output power supply probably wouldn't be good on the amp.
[02:13:15] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: sweet it works!
[02:13:22] <aa-danimal-shop> yay!
[02:14:38] <aa-danimal-shop> same tuning numbers as z?
[02:14:48] <aa-danimal-shop> mine are the same at least
[02:15:17] <JT-Hardinge> dunno, I'll approach it slowly :)
[02:16:08] <aa-danimal-shop> go for the gold
[02:19:26] <JT-Hardinge> I'm going for HOME now
[02:21:14] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[02:21:25] <JT-Hardinge> Houston, we have a fully functional lathe atm :)
[02:21:41] <JT-Hardinge> needs some gaskets and tuning but all systems are go
[02:22:27] <aa-danimal-shop> even the turret?
[02:23:18] <JT-Hardinge> yea, by buttons atm but the parts for that came today too but too late to try and solder today
[02:24:02] <aa-danimal-shop> cool
[02:24:29] <JT-Hardinge> the X axis limit switch works LOL
[02:28:14] <clytle374> kernel patched and working properly now, very good latency. Connectors unsoldered. good night all.
[02:28:36] <aa-danimal-shop> that didnt take you long JT-Hardinge
[02:28:53] <JT-Hardinge> to test the limit switch?
[02:29:37] <aa-danimal-shop> to get it running
[02:30:47] <JT-Hardinge> the X is a little different in the tuning requirements
[02:31:57] <JT-Hardinge> hmmm, the conversion started 3 months ago
[02:32:46] <aa-danimal-shop> well you really just started though
[02:33:00] <aa-danimal-shop> 99% of the work was this year, right?
[02:33:23] <aa-danimal-shop> finally got my spindle unfrozen. It was definitely welded together
[02:33:42] <JT-Hardinge> Ouch
[02:34:16] <JT-Hardinge> I started in mid December but took a long time to get past some hurdles
[02:34:21] <aa-danimal-shop> i think i can clean it up good enough
[02:34:32] <JT-Hardinge> your mill?
[02:34:39] <aa-danimal-shop> manual lathe
[02:35:15] <aa-danimal-shop> 100 years old and finally decided to weld itself together
[02:37:57] <JT-Hardinge> just needs a lick of paint and it will be as good as new
[02:38:58] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop machine shop I worked in had a horizontal mill from 1856 man it was cherry!
[02:39:41] <aa-danimal-shop> lol i already repainted it JT-Hardinge
[02:40:04] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop they had it rescraped
[02:40:12] <aa-danimal-shop> nice
[02:40:31] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop like I said it was cherry
[02:44:07] <pfred1> skip it I'm leaving off one of the parallel port inputs for now
[02:44:30] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge has a "Home All" button now so time to flick on the magnetass switch
[02:44:36] <JT-Hardinge> goodnight Dan
[02:44:48] <aa-danimal-shop> my lathe: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/DSCN0015.jpg
[02:45:02] <aa-danimal-shop> goodnight JT-Hardinge
[02:45:03] <JT-Hardinge> Nice!
[02:45:07] <aa-danimal-shop> thanks
[02:45:14] <aa-danimal-shop> doesnt need paint :)
[02:45:57] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop the tailstock is nice but what happened to the rest of the machine?
[02:46:35] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[02:46:41] <aa-danimal-shop> ok the tailstock needs paint
[02:46:52] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop no, thats how machines are supposed to look!
[02:47:17] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop could probably use a touch more black grease on it here and there but other than that ....
[02:48:03] <pfred1> least thats what I used to that oil softened battleship gray look
[02:53:23] <aa-danimal-shop> blah
[02:55:48] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop its so nice and dreary
[02:56:05] <pfred1> puts me in that relaxed state of mind ...
[03:00:24] <aa-danimal-shop> i hate that color
[03:00:45] <aa-danimal-shop> reminds me of work
[03:02:14] <aa-danimal-shop> well i got the spindle pretty smooth
[03:02:28] <aa-danimal-shop> luckly it isnt a high rpm area
[03:02:37] <aa-danimal-shop> still not sure how it seized
[03:02:55] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe it's been slowly friction welding for the past 100 years
[03:03:11] <pfred1> you polish it with like sandpaper?
[03:04:26] <aa-danimal-shop> a fine stone and oil
[03:05:04] <aa-danimal-shop> i think maybe the belt was too tight, it really shouldnt be contacting there
[03:05:16] <pfred1> I saw a guy do it with the emery roll stuff on a car crankshaft once and I was thinking the whole time no way it'll work he slapped it back otgether and the guy who's car it is was like damn better than when I had it rebuilt!
[03:05:49] <pfred1> looked like he was shining shoes under there to me
[03:06:15] <aa-danimal-shop> lol i did that once with my honda
[03:06:35] <aa-danimal-shop> lasted about a month, but it was long enough to find a new crank for cheap
[03:06:41] <pfred1> yeah he just dropped the pan and went for it
[03:06:53] <pfred1> I don't know how long it lasted
[03:07:19] <pfred1> I was amazed it even ran at all
[03:07:26] <aa-danimal-shop> not long probably. the tollerance for bearing clearance is pretty tight
[03:13:11] <aa-danimal-shop> LOL idiots put a press fit dowel in a blind hole
[03:13:13] <aa-danimal-shop> wow
[03:13:25] <aa-danimal-shop> they werent that smart back then
[03:45:07] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: how does something slowly friction weld? :)
[03:45:38] <BlackMoon> Nice lathe btw.
[03:45:56] <BlackMoon> heh at all the oil cups
[03:46:35] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: Is that one of those lathes with the clutchs for the power feeds?
[03:53:18] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[03:53:24] <aa-danimal-shop> thank you
[03:54:50] <BlackMoon> np
[03:54:53] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, , there's barely any rpm difference between the 2 parts
[03:55:33] <BlackMoon> Yea but friction welding is like, super high temp
[03:55:44] <BlackMoon> ie you actualy gotta get to welding tempature :)
[03:56:01] <BlackMoon> iv seen friction cause wear of parts untill the contamination sticks them togethor..
[03:56:10] <BlackMoon> at slow speeds over time
[03:56:18] <BlackMoon> but never slow speed welding
[03:57:12] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: Are the clutchs annoying at all?
[03:57:28] <aa-danimal-shop> no it works well
[03:57:37] <BlackMoon> I got straight gear engagement for my power feed and its a little annoying in that you gotta wait for the next gear engagement to come around, sometimes takes a second or two at low rpm with light feed rates
[03:57:55] <BlackMoon> slides outta engagement very easily and reliabley though
[03:57:55] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, this is instant
[03:58:11] <aa-danimal-shop> takes a little getting used to though
[03:58:24] <BlackMoon> iv heard of people using a light clutch engagement + carriage stop as a feed stop, lol
[03:58:29] <BlackMoon> sounds kinda.. evil to me though
[03:58:43] <aa-danimal-shop> the clutches are pretty bullet proof
[03:58:57] <BlackMoon> yea?
[03:58:57] <aa-danimal-shop> i'll slip mine a little to controll the feedrate if needed
[03:59:08] <BlackMoon> oh?
[03:59:10] <aa-danimal-shop> if the lathe is getting overwhelmed
[03:59:21] <BlackMoon> thats nifty
[03:59:30] <BlackMoon> iv kinda wanted to convert my lathe to electronic feed
[03:59:33] <aa-danimal-shop> it's only 1hp, so it sometimes bogs
[03:59:38] <aa-danimal-shop> that would be cool
[03:59:50] <BlackMoon> especialy since its got like a feedrod/leadrod selector
[03:59:56] <aa-danimal-shop> as long as you still have the threeading capability
[04:00:02] <BlackMoon> so I could allways have mechanical feed override the motor at the flick of a switch
[04:00:02] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[04:00:05] <aa-danimal-shop> same here
[04:00:14] <BlackMoon> well thats the other thing
[04:00:29] <BlackMoon> is id love to add a spindle encoder and control the threading rod too hehe
[04:00:34] <BlackMoon> or just control the input to the gearbox itself
[04:00:53] <BlackMoon> Even if my electronic box was only 1:4 and 4:1 ratio it would really fix my lathe
[04:01:04] <BlackMoon> because I got a QCGB.. except one thing
[04:01:14] <BlackMoon> its got 2 ranges that are NOT quick change but gear change
[04:01:26] <BlackMoon> like 2~16 tpi and 17~52 tpi
[04:01:46] <aa-danimal-shop> at that point just emc it lol
[04:01:51] <BlackMoon> and the fine feed setting coursest feed is well.. Well its pertty course but id love a little more.
[04:02:24] <BlackMoon> I actualy like using my lathe manualy cause its all power feed hahah
[04:02:27] <aa-danimal-shop> i thought about converting a manual lathe, but it just made more sense to buy a cnc lathe and convert it. it was much cheaper
[04:02:35] <BlackMoon> its like just enter the coords and flip the lever
[04:02:36] <BlackMoon> measure, repeat
[04:02:51] <BlackMoon> how so?
[04:03:26] <aa-danimal-shop> well i got my lathe for less than what most ballscrews cost
[04:03:54] <aa-danimal-shop> you can get a nice cnc lathe with a bad controller for dirt cheap
[04:04:11] <aa-danimal-shop> much less than a decent manual lathe would go for
[04:04:22] <aa-danimal-shop> or even a cheap manual lathe for that matter
[04:05:02] <aa-danimal-shop> might even get paid to take one lol
[04:05:21] <aa-danimal-shop> gotta run, time to eat! adios
[04:26:23] <tom3p> anyone have experience moving an industrial machine, say 5000lbs, 500 miles?
[04:31:10] <aa-danimal-shop> i moved my mill, it was 6000-7000lbs
[04:31:22] <aa-danimal-shop> i moved it almost exactly 500 miles
[04:31:39] <aa-danimal-shop> so i guess i can say "yes"
[04:32:21] <aa-danimal-shop> although the way i did it was sketchy. wouldnt reccommend it
[05:35:39] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: ah, good point.
[05:46:55] <tom3p> i wondered wgat costs there might be, id have it skidded, but would need a tilt bed to lower it to my driveway, then id take over with rollbars and johnsons
[05:50:01] <BlackMoon> what kinda driveway?
[05:50:45] <BlackMoon> a number of 2x4's make wonderful cheap tracks on gravel/soft ground. Or incase you don't want any marks on the ashfault.
[05:52:36] <tom3p> asfault but not sure of thickness, have had dump trucks on it with a couple yards of dirt
[05:55:05] <ds3> couple?!
[05:57:13] <tom3p> yeh, i think 2.5 yds took care of garden
[05:57:58] <tom3p> but its the long distance cost i worry about.
[06:04:23] <scutsxg> hi,is anybody notice CLARAty software by nasa?
[06:04:38] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[06:04:48] <scutsxg> also a good reuseble software platform
[07:41:43] <bosko> Hello everyone!
[07:58:49] <micges_work> hi
[10:22:27] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:25:57] <robotito> m
[10:29:09] <piasdom> do i have to write the [200][400] in this o200 call [200] [400] ? is it need to have the feed work ?
[10:29:43] <archivist> yes or modify the subroutine
[10:34:37] <piasdom> but i don't see where [200][400] are 4 and 8 ... which are the feed i used
[10:35:50] <piasdom> what's wrong is i don't know what is doing what and when
[10:47:56] <BlackMoon> http://www.sandia.gov/media/diamond.htm mmm diamond coating tech.
[10:48:42] <archivist> piasdom, we cant know without seeing the code
[11:01:50] <piasdom> sorry http://pastebin.ca/1829780
[11:04:58] <piasdom> i didn't write this (tom3p) just can't see what and when. i can see the sub defined, but it's he end P L and never used g10
[11:05:17] <piasdom> *he the
[11:28:19] <archivist> first two lines in o200 replace incoming values see comment on line 25
[11:29:07] <BlackMoon> man im bored
[11:32:34] <JT-Dev> write a "how to tune a servo velocity drive" that will keep you busy
[11:35:05] <piasdom> archivist; he just had the comment,i added the #1#2#3 . i didn't know how to set global feeds
[11:35:59] <BlackMoon> JT-Dev: theres all sorts of docs about that online
[11:36:04] <archivist> set global before the subroutines and use them in the call line
[11:36:10] <BlackMoon> just buy the $200 osilliscope and get it over with
[11:36:18] <JT-Dev> LOL
[11:36:25] <piasdom> i looked all over for the definition of #1#2#3 but couldn't fine them anywhere so i add them
[11:36:35] <archivist> * archivist rents ascope to jt for 199$
[11:37:25] <JT-Dev> I'll use the free scope in EMC
[11:37:30] <archivist> piasdom, they are not global in the old code, they were constanst set on the call line
[11:37:49] <piasdom> archivist; i tried to write the globally, but they didn't work til i set them IN the sub
[11:37:59] <archivist> bah cheapskate jt :)
[11:38:49] <JT-Dev> * JT-Dev looks for a $200 scope that works and can't find one
[11:39:09] <archivist> piasdom, because they need to be seen on line 109 etc
[11:39:52] <archivist> I got lucky and got an 8 chan HP digital for less :)
[11:41:25] <BlackMoon> JT-Dev: ebay.
[11:41:59] <BlackMoon> should be able to get at least a 200mhz 2 channel or a 100mhz 4 channel for $200
[11:42:03] <BlackMoon> + maybe 30~50 s/h
[11:43:01] <JT-Dev> http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-1740A-OSCILLOSCOPE-DUAL-CHANNEL-100MHz-SCOPE_W0QQitemZ390166261089QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Oscilloscopes?hash=item5ad7b8ad61
[11:43:49] <BlackMoon> '•This auction is sold on an "AS-IS" basis for Repair/Parts only. No Return or Refund is accepted. '
[11:43:50] <archivist> thats a little old
[11:44:01] <BlackMoon> thats a little not even showing a trace.
[11:44:13] <BlackMoon> Find a scope that idealy displays 2 square waves
[11:44:15] <BlackMoon> at very least 1
[11:44:16] <JT-Dev> * JT-Dev keeps looking
[11:44:26] <BlackMoon> square waves are the hardest for a scope to display properly
[11:44:42] <piasdom> archivist; so which is which? what is[200] and [400] ? 200 is #1 and 400 is #2 and so forth ?
[11:44:45] <BlackMoon> because of all the harmonics, you need perfict freqency responce or you get under/overshoot
[11:44:51] <JT-Dev> http://cgi.ebay.com/TEKTRONIX-TDS-320-2-CH-DIGITZING-100MHz-SCOPE-TESTED_W0QQitemZ310204090914QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Oscilloscopes?hash=item48399aca22
[11:45:01] <BlackMoon> (idealy a square wave should display just like _-_-_-_ with no vertical lines inbeween)
[11:45:21] <BlackMoon> that looks OK if you want digital
[11:45:31] <archivist> piasdom, yes, so replace with [#33] some l
[11:45:37] <archivist> piasdom, yes, so replace with [#33] some global var
[11:45:39] <JT-Dev> LOL, I don't even know what I want/need for a scope
[11:45:47] <piasdom> archivist; THANKS
[11:46:02] <BlackMoon> JT-Dev: don't worry, buy it anyway.
[11:46:34] <BlackMoon> Typicaly the analogs are a little better bang for the buck unless you really want storage of one shot events that you can't make repeat easily
[11:46:48] <BlackMoon> (But there are also analog storage scopes, they are kinda cool)
[11:47:08] <BlackMoon> stores the trace on the screen of one shot or multiple events by a weird static storage mesh inside the CRT
[11:47:36] <BlackMoon> can store 1 image nearly indefinately or have an adjustable fade out and/or blanking interval
[11:48:01] <BlackMoon> even stores the image with the scopes power off for weeks!
[11:48:48] <piasdom> archivist; one more thing......why does the z axis go to .5 at startup ..... no matter where z starts .. i see it reading #3 when it does that
[11:49:16] <JT-Dev> http://cgi.ebay.com/Tek-Sony-336-50Mhz-Dual-Ch-Digital-Storage-Scope-w-prob_W0QQitemZ370306564846QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Oscilloscopes?hash=item5637fdc2ee
[11:50:28] <BlackMoon> kinda slow
[11:50:35] <BlackMoon> id look at 100mhz min really
[11:50:59] <BlackMoon> even if your only working with like 20mhz microcontrollers tops and stuff, you really need more bandwidth then what your doing to actualy 'see' it correctly
[11:51:18] <BlackMoon> and it will help you see supply noises and stuff from logic.
[11:51:33] <archivist> piasdom, line 108
[11:51:34] <BlackMoon> 200mhz is really nice. much more then that starts becoming questionable for a first time scope
[11:51:44] <piasdom> ok
[11:51:52] <JT-Dev> ok
[11:52:00] <BlackMoon> digital scopes can be much slower then 'stated' too
[11:52:18] <BlackMoon> they should have at least 5x the mega samples/s as bandwidth
[11:52:57] <BlackMoon> the '140 KHZ STORAGE BANDWIDTH' seems really odd on that ebay url
[11:53:19] <BlackMoon> really, low end digital scopes are not that great and will cost you a lot more like $300 as you have seen
[11:53:26] <BlackMoon> for a decent one
[11:53:31] <piasdom> archivist; so the program start at line 107.....Thanks again
[11:53:43] <BlackMoon> a similar speed/capability analog will be $200
[11:54:37] <BlackMoon> and about the only diffrence will be the storage capability and maybe some cursors that let you readout exact voltages/freqencys a little easyer (reading an analog scope is still reasonabley accurate, and digital scopes usally only use like a 10bit ADC so they are not exactly very exact on voltage readouts anyway)
[11:55:13] <archivist> piasdom, it starts before that
[11:55:27] <JT-Dev> what do I gain by using an external scope vs the Hal Scope?
[11:55:42] <piasdom> archivist; thanks...i'll study some more
[11:56:05] <BlackMoon> JT-Dev: you can scope other circuits.
[11:56:18] <archivist> that you see a real voltage
[11:56:27] <JT-Dev> ok
[11:56:54] <BlackMoon> and see the actual waveform, especialy important when dianosing noise/surges
[11:56:58] <archivist> eg an open collector output missing its pullup
[11:57:13] <BlackMoon> or having a weak pullup and it taking forever to go high
[11:57:46] <BlackMoon> or it overloaded by some fryed equipment connected to it.
[11:58:34] <JT-Dev> http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-2465BDM-4-Channel-400MHz-Analog-Scope_W0QQitemZ250589861418QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Oscilloscopes?hash=item3a5851d62a
[11:58:42] <BlackMoon> In the electronics world, if a DMM was your sense of smell, an oscilloscope would be your eyes
[11:58:54] <JT-Dev> I see :)
[11:59:02] <BlackMoon> Thats a pertty awsome scope.
[12:00:45] <BlackMoon> possabley a wee bit expensive but not bad.
[12:00:57] <JT-Dev> yea, no bids
[12:00:57] <BlackMoon> at $500 you can start getting into the nicer digital scopes however.
[12:01:34] <BlackMoon> maybe not 4 channel 400mhz digital, but likey a 2 channel 400mhz.. maybe a 4 channel 200mhz
[12:02:08] <BlackMoon> also note that scope does not have additional volt/div knobs for every input
[12:02:48] <BlackMoon> So not sure how you get all 4 channels to display, or if each can be attinuated
[12:03:22] <BlackMoon> some 4 channel scopes really just display the other trigger inputs so its not really fully useful as a channel
[12:03:35] <BlackMoon> a true 4 channel scope will actualy have seperate inputs for trigger
[12:03:55] <BlackMoon> I have a 4 channel scope that can display 7 traces at once! A B C D A+B C+D exttrigger
[12:04:14] <BlackMoon> gets crowded :)
[12:11:44] <JT-Dev> looks like most scopes on fleabay are 100Mhz
[12:11:52] <BlackMoon> yep
[12:12:03] <BlackMoon> its about all you'll need for most hobbiest work
[12:12:34] <JT-Dev> http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-465-100MHZ-Oscilloscope-Calibrated-2-probes_W0QQitemZ280474679847QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Oscilloscopes?hash=item414d97fa27
[12:13:06] <BlackMoon> really if you wanted a serious upgrade from 100mhz you'd be wanting like a $700+ scope so don't consider it like buying a cheapo one, just one suitable for most hobbiest
[12:13:38] <BlackMoon> tektronix is a good scope and many people have that 465 its a good durable model
[12:13:58] <archivist> but old
[12:14:02] <BlackMoon> one down side is he doesnt display a square wave anywhere
[12:14:15] <BlackMoon> old yes, but tektronix where really built to last, industral equipment
[12:14:25] <archivist> I have a 465 :)
[12:14:33] <BlackMoon> the controls get a little scratchy but they are still very usable
[12:14:55] <archivist> Ive had the psu caps fail
[12:15:20] <archivist> but for 30 years old thats ok
[12:15:57] <BlackMoon> that sucks, but fixable
[13:06:38] <renesis> i should open up my 2230 and look for broke shit again
[13:06:48] <renesis> i wish it would just fail
[13:08:09] <renesis> its some temp related drift or IC failure, the vector display generator spazzes out after awhile but itll be fine after letting it cool down
[13:09:00] <renesis> theres more of them on ebay for parts/repair now than working ones
[13:09:49] <renesis> pisses me off those itll work for months almost daily, no issues
[13:10:32] <renesis> anywat if youre not going to use the scope all the time
[13:10:55] <renesis> get a rigol or a uni-t or some other china DSO
[13:11:38] <renesis> like maybe 1/4 cost of non china solution for comparable feature set
[13:12:53] <renesis> but yeah a (mostly) working tek scope is never really a bad purchase
[13:15:11] <renesis> http://cgi.ebay.com/TEKTRONIX-2230-100mhz-DIGITAL-STORAGE-OSCILLOSCOPE_W0QQitemZ160378697575QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Oscilloscopes?hash=item255750b767
[13:15:23] <renesis> http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-2232-100MHz-Storage-Oscilloscope-RS232-Nice_W0QQitemZ270540982351QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Oscilloscopes?hash=item3efd7fc84f
[13:15:54] <renesis> still convinced this is he cheapest usable scope for general purpose use
[13:16:11] <renesis> straight analog sucks ass at anything non repetitive
[13:16:30] <JT-Dev> second one has 100% positive feedback
[13:16:38] <renesis> its nice to have, though
[13:16:44] <renesis> tose two scopes are always on ebay
[13:17:06] <renesis> theyre analog with a diital storage mode built in
[13:17:24] <renesis> te display for the storae uses the trace to draw out the data dn measurement values
[13:19:10] <renesis> http://i.ebayimg.com/22/!BngHyp!BWk~$%28KGrHqIOKjIEtkoKdqeuBLjtfvvk,Q~~_35.JPG
[13:25:05] <JT-Dev> renesis: thanks for the links
[13:25:45] <JT-Dev> * JT-Dev heads out to work
[13:47:34] <skunkworks_> stupid question.. Is there hal componant or even in classic ladder that takes and interager and outputs binary (say 16 would output 1111)
[13:48:44] <atmega> like a BCD output?
[13:50:19] <skunkworks_> has to be binary - not binary coded decmal
[13:50:33] <skunkworks_> sort of a demux - if I have it right
[13:51:52] <atmega> I've done that in GE/Fanuc ladder, no idea about emc though
[13:52:29] <cradek> if we have one, I doubt we have one that outputs 1111 for 16
[13:53:08] <skunkworks_> sorry - 15 ;)_
[13:53:13] <cradek> skunkworks_: you can easily do this with ladder: -[Var%1]---()-, -[Var%2]---()-, etc for 4 and 8
[13:53:35] <cradek> (untested)
[13:58:49] <BlackMoon> skunkworks: how exactly do you expect digital stuff to not be using binary in the first place?
[13:59:10] <cradek> I assume he wants to split a S32 out into bits
[13:59:16] <skunkworks_> hmm - really? %1 tells it to use the first binary bit? and%2 second?
[14:00:01] <skunkworks_> our transmission is actually 4 bit binary. 1st gear is 0000 2nd is 0001 third is 0010... and so on.
[14:00:43] <cradek> no, it's too early, I meant Var&1, Var&2
[14:00:59] <skunkworks_> ah - ok. will play with it. that would be easy.
[14:04:41] <skunkworks_> ladder is cool ;)
[14:21:59] <markus__> hi
[14:31:45] <piasdom> does g54 cancel g55....g56...67...... ?
[14:33:17] <acemi> Only one of them can be activated at a time
[14:52:37] <piasdom> i know ...but i want to cancel to get back to machine coor
[14:53:54] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[14:54:02] <piasdom> cancel g55.56.57 and os forth offsets
[14:54:10] <numen> moin
[14:54:16] <SWPadnos> g53X0Y0Z0... / g10l2p1x0y0z0 (or something like that)
[14:54:24] <skunkworks_> piasdom: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems
[14:54:43] <SWPadnos> G53 moves in machine coordinates, so go to zero (or some other spot), then set the F54/55/56... coordinate however you want
[14:54:59] <piasdom> THANKS
[14:55:09] <SWPadnos> (g53 only works on the line it's on, it doesn't set the machine to a different coordinate system)
[14:55:28] <SWPadnos> I'd suggest you use G92 for the "two pockets 1.4" apart in Y" program
[14:56:47] <piasdom> now i'm on this http://pastebin.ca/1830072
[14:57:40] <tom3p> these are special words... 'machine coordinates' is G53 while 'user coordinates' are positions you want to measure from, like g54,56,56... you cannot change G53 and all G54,55.. are related to g53 (offset from g53)
[14:58:23] <tom3p> g53 is like Paris, G54 is like 'from the bakery' ;)
[14:58:48] <piasdom> ok .... i'm trying cancel the offsets how do i do that ?
[14:59:43] <piasdom> or DO i neeed to cancel them .... i have no idea and the doc don't show
[15:00:07] <SWPadnos> I didn't notice you changing to the other coordinate systems in that program
[15:00:17] <tom3p> to cancel the offset (im not sure thats what you want to do), to cancel just G10 P2 L?? X0 Y0 Z0... (as many as up to W0)
[15:00:18] <SWPadnos> you don't need to cancel them, just select a different coordinate system
[15:00:33] <piasdom> cool .....thanks
[15:00:58] <SWPadnos> however, I believe those offsets are stored in the var file, so the next time you run EMC2, they'll still be there
[15:01:31] <SWPadnos> it may be good practice to go to machine zero with G53 and zero out the other coordinate systems at the end of your run
[15:02:06] <piasdom> that's what i wanted just didn't know how to ask
[15:02:26] <tom3p> but you can always put g10 p2 l?? in your program (despite the saved values), yes be specific in what you wnat to have happen, dont assume
[15:02:54] <piasdom> i wanted to get rid of them so the next time i ran mach they wouldn't be there
[15:03:27] <piasdom> tom3p; AFTER all programing
[15:04:25] <tom3p> you can do that, but i dotn see people doing it, in many years of programming,
[15:04:48] <tom3p> its like throwing away the pad of papper where you wrote how to get to the bakery
[15:05:06] <tom3p> just make sure what you use is defined
[15:05:26] <piasdom> SWPadnos; what's the code to use g53 ... go to XYZ zero using g53 instead of g0 or g1 ?
[15:05:54] <SWPadnos> no. G53 would be used in addition to the movement code (g1, g0)
[15:06:02] <SWPadnos> G53 G0 X0 Y0 Z0
[15:06:03] <tom3p> else you'd see a block of code that wiped all the G5x in every program used in emc... you dont see that happen
[15:06:46] <piasdom> tom3p; thanks... i won't use that then
[15:08:16] <piasdom> SWPadnos; thanks
[15:08:29] <SWPadnos> sure
[15:10:51] <tom3p> i think g53 is not modal... only effective on one line, while g54 55 et al are modal , meaning they stay in effect until another G5x is used
[15:12:22] <piasdom> i was thinking it was like g92
[15:12:22] <tom3p> g53 is a bit dangerous ( you think more like g54,5,6... than you think like g53... you think more like, i am near the bakery than i am at 123.456latitude 45.764longitude)
[15:15:45] <tom3p> i dont know the difference between G54 G92 blah blah and G10 P2 L1 blah blah, and it'd take a bit of study and experimenting to discover any difference.
[15:16:08] <tom3p> what you need is somethign that works and repeats ;)
[15:20:38] <tom3p> ooh G92 is strong juju, "Thus all nine coordinate systems are affected by G92." http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G53:-Move-in
[15:21:09] <SWPadnos> right - it's an additional, usually temporary, offset
[15:22:09] <SWPadnos> think of G5x as the locations of the vises or other stations on a machine, and G92 is like a "temporary variable" used to offset things (like multiple pockets of the same shape) at a single station
[15:23:12] <tom3p> what happens if the program is stopped while offset for that 3rd detail on vise #2 ? what does G91 X1 mean?
[15:23:34] <SWPadnos> G91 is relative vs incremental (G90/G91) - was that a typo?
[15:23:36] <tom3p> (or the 1mm jog button)
[15:24:14] <SWPadnos> to answer the question though, the G92 offsets are preserved, even across runs
[15:24:24] <SWPadnos> they can be easily cleared or unapplied though
[15:24:31] <tom3p> no, i mean it IS relativem, but relative to what ( i aborted a prorgam that had offsets)
[15:25:13] <SWPadnos> stopping a program has no effect on the offsets, AFAIK
[15:25:17] <tom3p> ok, so the jog 1mm button is from the G92 position, ok
[15:25:54] <SWPadnos> if you come in tomorrow and start running something on station 4, just make sure you set the offsets as necessary for station 3, instead of station 2 where it was stopped :)
[15:25:58] <SWPadnos> err, s/4/3/
[15:26:44] <tom3p> i run into that stuff especially in probing, i want the probed value in terms that make sense, not usually in G53 terms
[15:29:41] <nmen> nmen is now known as numen
[15:29:48] <numen> re
[16:05:31] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, i rented a penske and moved it myself
[16:05:55] <aa-danimal-shop> then rented a forklift to take it off the truck when it got here
[16:06:37] <piasdom> m0 doesn't work in osub ?
[16:08:53] <piasdom> i need it to pause at a point
[16:13:31] <JT-Work> morning Dan
[16:16:21] <JT-Work> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sec:G4:-Dwell
[16:16:55] <piasdom> never used g4 ... i'll look thanks
[16:17:44] <aa-danimal-shop> morning John
[16:17:56] <JT-Work> I think if you put P0 it will wait forever (at least that is what I'm used to with other controls
[16:17:56] <piasdom> i need it to pause til i say restart ... i need measure a depth
[16:18:21] <JT-Work> can't check it out here only Windoz
[16:18:22] <piasdom> i've always used m0 works great
[16:18:43] <piasdom> i'll try p0 thanks
[16:26:41] <aa-danimal-shop> i need to get a faceplate for my HNC
[16:27:27] <aa-danimal-shop> definitely would have been easier for boring out this gear
[16:57:48] <sealive> tom3p: Hi are you here?
[17:00:49] <Jymmm> http://www.tequipment.net/Fluke233.html
[17:02:28] <bill2or3> "where's my meter?"
[17:02:34] <bill2or3> "where's the other part of my meter?"
[17:02:59] <bill2or3> "Jesus, I'll just buy some longer leads!"
[17:05:09] <Jymmm> These are some nice probes http://www.tequipment.net/Pomona5676A.asp
[17:05:12] <sealive> hi bill
[17:05:46] <Jymmm> can penetrate conformal coating easily
[17:06:53] <sealive> bill i buy everything here http://www.reichelt.de/?ACTION=3;ARTICLE=81989;GROUPID=;SID=263CNtU6wQARoAAFYVMcM1b5da9a590fcc373c81000f893b89541
[17:07:05] <sealive> off vause i'am german
[17:23:25] <tom3p> piasdom, do you want it to stop for a manual tool change?
[17:24:58] <tom3p> aa-danimal-shop, thx i'll look into renting a forklift local and drive the forklift over here
[17:28:58] <tom3p> piasdom nm i see "m0 (CHECK DEPTH)"
[17:29:16] <tom3p> i dont see m0 working in o-word subs
[17:30:15] <aa-danimal-shop> tom3p, i had a tow truck get it for me
[17:30:42] <tom3p> piasdom, try this "To exchange pallet shuttles and then stop a running program temporarily (regardless of the setting of the optional stop switch), program M60"
[17:31:04] <aa-danimal-shop> flat bed tow truck
[17:32:24] <tom3p> aa-danimal-shop, oh, like a tilt bed tow truck? (me old skool, thinks crane & chain:)
[17:32:59] <aa-danimal-shop> yes
[17:34:20] <sealive> tom3p: It works the mashine moves from the start yesterday nothing workt today its fine
[17:36:09] <sealive> tom3p: you told me yesterday that ther is a button for homing wherever it is WHERE is this button
[17:40:56] <tom3p> sealive, i think i know what you want, but dont know of a 'here' button in emc2 (i do know where it is in heidenhain), so going to archives to see what i said ;)
[17:41:24] <tom3p> aa-danimal-shop, good idea, i'll look into tilt bed idea
[17:42:04] <aa-danimal-shop> it homes wherever you are if you have home search velocity set to zero
[17:43:08] <aa-danimal-shop> home search velocity and latch velocity
[17:43:09] <sealive> coudt someone eplain me this http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/config_stepconf.html#r1_5_1
[17:43:26] <robotito> sealive, 5 in 1?
[17:43:43] <bill2or3> maximum velocity?
[17:44:11] <bill2or3> dont go faster than you can. :-|
[17:44:19] <sealive> simply my english is not good enov to understand what this does
[17:44:35] <bill2or3> its' for testing the motor speeds of your machine.
[17:44:53] <sealive> my mashin is in mm and i got 100mm of maximum way
[17:44:57] <bill2or3> so that you can set an upper limit to the speed they will be driven at.
[17:45:08] <sealive> iam for testing in the midel of the max track
[17:45:28] <bill2or3> it's not for testing the distance/length of the axis's, but for the speed at which they move.
[17:46:00] <bill2or3> set the "test area" to 1 inch, and click 'run'.
[17:46:21] <bill2or3> if it moves too slowly, increase the 'velocity' value, and try again.
[17:46:24] <sealive> ok i'am new to emc ! and i understand that te config is all about for emc
[17:46:24] <tom3p> sealive i read all of yesterday and today, i dont see myself or anyone talking about a 'here' button with you
[17:46:36] <bill2or3> keep repeating until you get it travel at speeds you're happy with.
[17:47:00] <SWPadnos> home
[17:47:42] <sealive> tom3p: we takt about homing all axes where the mashine is right now
[17:48:39] <sealive> thats what i make for now 5Years with NC-FRS loding the prog tool to the Programm zero and start
[17:51:39] <sealive> my driver is L297/298 24V 2A per phas on 3 Steppers
[17:52:07] <sealive> Steppers are 2,4V 1.6ohms sA 1,3Nm torch
[17:52:28] <sealive> Steppers are 2,4V 1.6ohms 2A 1,3Nm torch
[17:53:08] <sealive> i tryd L297 but nothing only some steps are done the others are missing
[17:53:14] <sealive> so i went to other
[17:53:28] <sealive> this works
[17:54:04] <sealive> BUT as always want to find the Best config i need to understand how all this configs come together
[17:54:39] <sealive> ther shoud be more then 3inch per minit with this amount of torch
[17:58:31] <sealive> the axis are all with liniar ball-bearing so there run with simply littel tourch ! the motors of the cnc3(same maschine) have only 0,3Nm and run under windows with 250mm/10inch per minute without losing any step
[17:58:49] <tom3p> SWPadnos, i was looking for a sim or stepper config that homed after jogging, and home wherever the machine was at that point in time.(for sealive to study)
[17:59:28] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/config_ini_homing.html
[18:00:30] <tom3p> oh im sure it can be done i thought a visual example would help more than text explanation
[18:00:37] <SWPadnos> yep, it would
[18:00:48] <SWPadnos> I don't know which if any config has an example of that
[18:00:54] <sealive> i read it
[18:00:59] <SWPadnos> it's not exactly recommended practice
[18:02:50] <SWPadnos> it looks like configs/stepper/sim_inch.ini uses no homing
[18:04:06] <sealive> these sim are these virtual mashine with no output to the ports?
[18:04:57] <SWPadnos> that one appears that way
[18:05:05] <SWPadnos> it doesn't load the parport module at all
[18:05:34] <SWPadnos> it connects the stepgens to a PC speaker driver, which makes it sound like you have a machine attached :)
[18:06:03] <sealive> no sount on the px
[18:06:15] <SWPadnos> then you won't hear it. that's not important though
[18:06:52] <SWPadnos> it won't mess with your actual hardware, and it has an example of setting up a machine so that home does what you asked for
[18:07:09] <sealive> thanks
[18:07:28] <aa-danimal-shop> no wonder why this thing seized, the bores werent centrifical
[18:07:39] <sealive> is ther a tool for testing the switches
[18:08:21] <SWPadnos> halmeter will show you the state of a single signal (you connect it to whichever pin you want to monitor)
[18:09:13] <sealive> i will give it a try tomorrow
[18:11:00] <sealive> for my anderstanding F1 is the STOP at all time key
[18:11:47] <SWPadnos> sort of
[18:11:53] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, it's a toggle
[18:12:25] <SWPadnos> ESC will abort motion as well
[18:12:33] <sealive> i will conecct the switch its a closer/not an obener to thew parallelport and let the mashie run simply press the switch and the mashine shoudt home! if not F1 will stop the motion
[18:13:04] <SWPadnos> hmmm. actually, F1 will always stop motion. even if you toggle e-stop back off, you would still have to hit F2 to enable motion again
[18:14:03] <sealive> and hal -meter will show me at any time the state of the parallelport pin
[18:14:22] <SWPadnos> yes, once you select the pin you want to look at
[18:15:08] <sealive> so i see tru hal-meter if the switch works and thru stepconf the writh config invert or non invert
[18:16:28] <SWPadnos> you should look at the home signal with halmeter. that will show you what the emc motion controller is seeing
[18:16:40] <SWPadnos> it will already be inverted if you have selected that
[18:18:04] <sealive> SWPadnos: thank you for your help
[18:18:13] <SWPadnos> you're welcome
[18:24:27] <sealive> is anyone on icq or maybe skype so i will bring the mashine up to the internet pc tommorow and someone can help me in a live video chat
[18:24:37] <tom3p> looks like more to learn... stepper_mm.ini sets up the 3 data for what the logic diagram identifies as 'Homing Type NONE', the ini allows jogging before home, yet the HOME btn (labeled 'empty') moves the tool (a HERE home wont move the tool)
[18:25:59] <tom3p> in AXIS, i see the tool cone move
[18:27:59] <sealive> ok i got to go shift starts at 4:30
[18:28:10] <tom3p> good luck
[18:28:24] <sealive> I'am tecnical tool maker master chife
[18:28:48] <sealive> working on mold's for plastics wirer channel system
[18:28:57] <tom3p> i specialize in edm
[18:29:13] <tom3p> wire channel like panduit?
[18:30:35] <sealive> panduit is this the product or the manufacture
[18:30:57] <tom3p> mfctr of a plastic wireway
[18:31:25] <skunkworks_> does m30 activate a pin through task?
[18:31:31] <skunkworks_> *any pin
[18:31:52] <sealive> http://www.panduit.com/Products/ProductOverviews/WiringDuct/index.htm
[18:31:57] <tom3p> http://cableorganizer.com/panduit/wire-duct.html
[18:31:59] <tom3p> yep
[18:32:31] <sealive> i make the tools for cutting the holes in the channel in the max speed thats available
[18:33:00] <sealive> working for SIEMENS
[18:33:12] <tom3p> ive built molds for panduit and thomas&betts
[18:33:26] <tom3p> SIEMENS good co.
[18:33:31] <Jymmm> That animated gif is stupid.... they moved everything over from being evenly spaced
[18:33:41] <tom3p> ?
[18:33:53] <Jymmm> http://www.panduit.com/stellent/groups/marketing-corp/documents/websiteimage/cmscont_035366.gif
[18:34:52] <sealive> the 1inch canel with 2inch hight is the most eficient in that case
[18:34:55] <tom3p> ok, how to stop the gif so i can see the great advantage?
[18:35:11] <sealive> but its most complicatet to punch!
[18:35:45] <sealive> the atvanced is that chanel 1inchby2
[18:36:02] <Jymmm> tom3p: You can't. you are stuck in animated gif hell forever! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[18:36:08] <sealive> 25mm/75mm
[18:36:11] <tom3p> :(
[18:36:19] <Jymmm> tom3p: close the window
[18:36:35] <tom3p> time to save & kill in gimp
[18:37:28] <sealive> the punching speed is up to 4meters per minute with 12 punches
[18:38:22] <sealive> the punchplate will hold at this speed at least 4weeks
[18:38:44] <sealive> with calculated 23hr a day
[18:39:01] <sealive> the mashine i rund by 24/7
[18:39:10] <sealive> 5shift worktime
[18:40:01] <aa-danimal-shop> hmm well my manual lathe spindle is back in the machine and seems to spin nicely now. Hopefully it'll hold up for another 100 years
[18:40:28] <sealive> XD
[18:40:44] <sealive> your grand child will see it
[18:42:08] <aa-danimal-shop> i would need to have kids in order to have grandchildren
[18:42:10] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[18:43:31] <tom3p> hmm more wires in less space = harder to get at what you want ( and in gimp you can view the layers)
[18:45:47] <skunkworks_> aa-danimal-shop: what was it?
[18:47:36] <aa-danimal-shop> what was what? the problem? a gear friction welded itself to the spindle
[18:47:55] <skunkworks_> yikes
[18:47:59] <aa-danimal-shop> yea
[18:48:32] <aa-danimal-shop> the gear wasnt running concentric to the pulley it was bolted and doweled to
[18:49:15] <aa-danimal-shop> so i lightly bored it, then bolted it to the pulley and indicated it in, and line reamed it and doweled it
[18:49:41] <aa-danimal-shop> cleaned out the oil grooves
[18:50:01] <aa-danimal-shop> lapped it a little
[19:05:51] <atmega> how do you configure emc for a digital I/O card instead of p-port?
[19:07:52] <SWPadnos> load the driver for the digital I/O card instead
[19:08:04] <SWPadnos> note: you may have to write it first
[19:08:18] <SWPadnos> (there are drivers for several 8255-like cards, so it should be relatively easy)
[19:08:28] <atmega> heh... I assume the stepconf wizard only works with p-ports?
[19:08:35] <SWPadnos> correct
[19:08:43] <cradek> wonder what kirk wallace actually means
[19:09:04] <SWPadnos> there's another one called pncconf (in the works) that also helps with mesa cards, but nothing I know of for generic digital I/O cards
[19:10:11] <atmega> any hooks for serial stuff?
[19:10:37] <micges> cradek: I wonder too
[19:11:04] <atmega> like a uC with digital I/O via serial?
[19:11:09] <SWPadnos> not really anything for communicating with a "smart" device over serial (or any other) bus
[19:11:30] <SWPadnos> jepler did something like that some time ago, but I don't know
[19:11:34] <SWPadnos> if the code still exists
[19:11:56] <SWPadnos> that's conceptually easy, it's just userspace software that talks over the serial port and has HAL pins
[19:12:00] <SWPadnos> but it's not realtime
[19:12:24] <atmega> I was thinking like a pendant
[19:15:47] <SWPadnos> as long as you don't expect it to be realtime (ie, no e-stop button through the serial port), that should be fine
[19:16:20] <Jymmm> Yeah, i reserve the USB port for that
[19:16:26] <Jymmm> the E-stop that is
[19:16:32] <SWPadnos> in fact, the I/O system was designed with the specific intent of using microcontrollers for I/O expansion (but the I/O system wasn't designed to be RT either)
[19:17:11] <SWPadnos> you can always run a separate wire through the cable, and connect that to a hardware input that's sampled in realtime (or even better to a physical estop chain)
[19:17:17] <Jymmm> There's nothing like a finger about to be cut out and you hit the PC controlled EMERGENCY STOP and it doens't
[19:18:07] <anonimasn> agreed
[19:20:53] <Jymmm> OH GAWD.... gMaps now shows points with coupons *sigh*
[19:23:03] <atmega> so, (sorry for the stupid questions) could you use a microcontorller for some combo of 20 or so in/outs, run one uC output pin to a p-port pin that requests a serial I/O for any more determinancy? or use it as an interrupt?
[19:27:00] <SWPadnos> HAL doesn't support hardware interrupts - it's timer periodic only
[19:27:41] <SWPadnos> you wouldn't need to have an extra wire to tell HAL that there's data ready - just write a userspace program that reads (and writes - don't forget the blinky lights :) ) data and updates HAL pins
[19:28:28] <atmega> any guess on latency for overhead + 2 bytes ?
[19:29:03] <SWPadnos> the transfer time is not much, but you never know when a userspace process will be interrupted
[19:29:40] <SWPadnos> assuming you use something like 19200 baud, that's about 1000 updates a second (neglecting overhead and synchronization)
[19:29:43] <atmega> a little over 1mS for 19200
[19:30:35] <SWPadnos> I think the code jepler made used a 2-byte packet. the high bit was 1 for the start of packet and 0 for the remaining byte(s). that gives you only 14 bits (or 3 bytes), but it lets you resync if something goes awry
[19:30:52] <SWPadnos> (or maybe he didn't do that, and I just thought it up - I don't remember)
[19:34:34] <atmega> sounds reasonable
[19:36:44] <Jymmm> Dumb question.... If EMC is a Cnc controller, what do you all the box that houses all the relays, I/O boards, etc ?
[19:36:51] <Jymmm> ^call
[19:36:58] <Jymmm> Dumb question.... If EMC is a Cnc controller, what do you call the box that houses all the relays, I/O boards, etc ?
[19:37:12] <atmega> could you do one pport pin for all homes, one for all limits, pause on that, then query via serial for the actual one?
[19:37:26] <SWPadnos> atmega, no
[19:37:36] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, the control or electronics cabinet?
[19:38:46] <ds3> SWPadnos: what's the restriction that prevents that kind of muxing?
[19:39:29] <SWPadnos> well, you could do it, but it would effectively make all the limit switch inputs go through a userspace program
[19:39:52] <ds3> ah I see
[19:39:53] <SWPadnos> the motion controller has no facility for sensing something and then asking what it was
[19:39:55] <cradek> atmega: newegg has parallel port cards for $7.99. This would give you 13 more inputs.
[19:40:15] <SWPadnos> and some outputs
[19:40:19] <cradek> that's 61 cents per input line...
[19:40:19] <atmega> oh, nevermind :)
[19:40:22] <SWPadnos> don't forget the blinky lights
[19:40:28] <atmega> I like blinky lights
[19:40:32] <ds3> I realize that... so I was thinking.. make the 1 input a estop then have on stop ask a userland program
[19:40:54] <SWPadnos> estop isn't the same thing as a limit switch
[19:41:02] <ds3> cradek: are they really PCI parallel port cards?
[19:41:25] <ds3> SWPadnos: normally yes, but it should accomplish halting motion til further action can be taken
[19:41:30] <cradek> ds3: no, I just made it up, and I challenge you to use google to prove me a liar
[19:41:52] <ds3> cradek: no no... the reason I asked is I bought such a thing... it turns out to be a USB controller + USB parallel port chip :(
[19:42:37] <atmega> heh
[19:42:40] <cradek> wow, that's sucky, and I haven't seen that kind of device
[19:42:42] <SWPadnos> wow. how singularly stupid a design
[19:42:49] <ds3> if you have a confirmed true PCI parallel port, I'd like to get the P/N for it
[19:43:00] <cradek> do you have a url for the piece of shit you bought?
[19:43:03] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815104211
[19:43:05] <anonimasn> hm..
[19:43:05] <cradek> er, I mean the card you bought?
[19:43:07] <atmega> that's pretty much the same as my uC + serial
[19:43:08] <cradek> ehci_hcd: Unknown symbol usb_hub_clear_tt_buffer
[19:43:11] <anonimasn> the more expensive ones are better then the cheap ones
[19:43:12] <cradek> oops
[19:43:40] <ds3> it was a store, let me see if it is on their website
[19:43:55] <cradek> you can see in the photo of the one SWPadnos pasted that it's a netmos chip, like all of those standard parports
[19:43:57] <Jymmm> ds3: http://koutech.com/proddetail.asp?linenumber=48
[19:44:00] <cradek> so that one will be fine
[19:44:38] <SWPadnos> ds3, something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124044
[19:44:49] <SWPadnos> that one is USB+parallel, so I might be suspicious of it
[19:45:09] <Jymmm> I just gave link to a DUAL
[19:45:13] <cradek> yep that is suspicious
[19:45:21] <ds3> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0277551
[19:45:24] <ds3> >
[19:45:27] <ds3> that
[19:45:42] <Jymmm> ds3: http://koutech.com/proddetail.asp?linenumber=48
[19:46:00] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, those are more expensive per port, from what I'm seeing
[19:46:01] <cradek> ds3: thanks, good to know those exist (and don't work)
[19:46:12] <SWPadnos> but they do have somewhat better density
[19:46:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: $15 for a dual pci paraport?!
[19:46:31] <ds3> SWPadnos: yes, your link points to one that don't work :( I think it is the same one i got locally
[19:46:32] <SWPadnos> oh, I see a $15 one now :)
[19:47:09] <SWPadnos> dual, $15: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166007
[19:47:18] <SWPadnos> that's pretty competitive :)
[19:47:40] <Jymmm> Mine comes with a 5 year warranty =)
[19:47:55] <Jymmm> and supprts linux =)
[19:47:58] <ds3> SWPadnos: that looks like a MOS chip thing and I saw complaints about it
[19:48:26] <SWPadnos> I think the complaints are only relevant to parallel-port-connected "smart cards" - mesa, pluto, pico
[19:48:35] <SWPadnos> for dumb I/O I don't think there are any issues
[19:48:36] <cradek> they don't work for EPP, but they're fine for IO and software stepgen
[19:48:47] <SWPadnos> (as long as Linux recognizes and enables the card)
[19:48:59] <robotito> why are several ports needed?
[19:49:16] <ds3> but are they true TTL drivers or higher current CMOS drivers?
[19:49:17] <atmega> some people have IO fetishes
[19:49:21] <SWPadnos> only if you (a) want more I/O than one port has and/or (b) you want to protect your motherboard
[19:49:34] <ds3> (yes, I have an annoying driver that tries to yank power off a data line against the specs)
[19:49:47] <SWPadnos> you just toss the card and put another one in if something happens, rather than potentially trashing a motherboard
[19:50:17] <ds3> as a BTW, I got a hand ful of 2P, 4S ISA cards sitting around
[19:50:31] <SWPadnos> sounds like ByteRunner :)
[19:50:42] <atmega> I have lots of isa junk
[19:50:46] <ds3> byterunner?
[19:50:55] <ds3> person, company, or ?
[19:51:01] <SWPadnos> http://www.byterunner.com/
[19:51:20] <SWPadnos> more specifically: http://www.byterunner.com/byterunner/new_frontpage=serial_parallel_cards
[19:52:10] <ds3> mine are different; they came out of a surplus pile ages ago
[20:00:04] <aa-danimal-shop> yay my lathe works again
[20:01:38] <ds3> what was wrong with it?
[20:02:32] <aa-danimal-shop> a gear frixtion welded to the spindle
[20:02:39] <aa-danimal-shop> friction*
[20:53:52] <acemi> cradek: http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,20/id,2246/lang,english/
[21:27:08] <Jymmm> OH WHAT A FEELING, TOYOTA! http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/08/california.runaway.prius/index.html?hpt=T2
[21:34:54] <Jymmm> http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/09/mullins.beyond.disability/index.html
[21:37:43] <jt-plasma> I got my turret encoder working, but when I plug it into the 7i37 the off lines cause a red light on the 7i37... I'm a bit confused atm
[21:37:46] <BlackMoon> Jymmm: awsome
[21:37:54] <BlackMoon> im gonna buy a toyota
[21:38:11] <cradek> jt-plasma: red light means you've got it hooked up backward
[21:38:16] <BlackMoon> and then when the cops pull me over for doing 120 in a school zone i'll all be like 'accelerator stuck officer, did'nt you see me wave you down to try and stop me???'
[21:38:39] <jt-plasma> cradek: that is what I thought
[21:39:29] <jt-plasma> when I check it at the terminal board it reads the same as my limit switch with the DMM
[21:39:38] <Jymmm> Now, why couldn't they just turn off the ignition is my question.
[21:39:46] <BlackMoon> he did when he reached 50
[21:39:58] <BlackMoon> actualy I tryed it on my truck, just parked
[21:40:10] <BlackMoon> its really diffacult to turn off the ignition in my truck without going to steering lock
[21:40:21] <BlackMoon> Like theres no detent beween 'run' and 'locked'
[21:40:32] <BlackMoon> you just gotta carefuly turn it a little behind run
[21:41:29] <Jymmm> Heh, I should offer an ignition kill switch installed for $100
[21:41:32] <BlackMoon> the real scary thing is as I understand it, some modren engines don't even have a throttle plate
[21:41:55] <BlackMoon> they just inject fuel to adjust throttle.. And if the wrong gasket goes.. well, you got constant injection
[21:41:59] <jt-plasma> I have -22v on the pin I thought was on and +24 on the pin that I thought was off
[21:42:17] <BlackMoon> Id like to see something 'new' in all these flybywire cars
[21:42:41] <cradek> my car has no throttle plate - if it ever accelerates out of control, I fully intend to push in the clutch and/or shut it off
[21:42:45] <BlackMoon> like a mechanical pushlever that flips something in the fuel mixing chamber or air intake to forcabley idle the engine
[21:43:20] <BlackMoon> all you'd really need is like a baffold over the air intake and you could easily take a 200hp motor down to 15hp
[21:43:32] <Jymmm> cradek: just dont forget the locking steering wheel
[21:43:36] <cradek> priuses are extra scary because I bet braking is completely under computer control
[21:43:46] <BlackMoon> still enough to idle and run the accessorys (power steering/brakes) but no way in hell of accelerating anything
[21:43:57] <cradek> Jymmm: on my correctly-designed car, the wheel doesn't lock unless you pull the key completely out
[21:44:15] <BlackMoon> cradek: on mine it locks about the instant your key goes to 'off' :(
[21:44:18] <BlackMoon> 94GMC
[21:44:31] <BlackMoon> it even seems to have more steering pawl lock positions then most cars
[21:44:42] <BlackMoon> like, I recall growing up you could often get a half turn in or something before the steering locked up
[21:44:46] <Jymmm> cradek: what is it?
[21:44:47] <BlackMoon> my car is like, 10 degrees and it locks up
[21:45:02] <cradek> I've never seen a car that would lock unless it was in park (autos) or until you did a special thing like push a button or pull the key out (manuals)
[21:45:08] <cradek> Jymmm: a vw
[21:45:13] <BlackMoon> cradek: Hmmmm
[21:45:17] <Jymmm> Toyota has always had fscked up ignition switches
[21:45:19] <BlackMoon> I think it was in park at the time
[21:45:23] <cradek> BlackMoon: maybe it's just busted?
[21:45:28] <BlackMoon> I'll have to try it in gear next time
[21:45:38] <cradek> BlackMoon: oh sure, well you probably wouldn't put it in park while it's moving :-)
[21:45:40] <BlackMoon> heh
[21:45:50] <Danimal-office> why not? it makes a cool sound
[21:45:52] <BlackMoon> iv heard of people puting it in park to stop the vehical before
[21:45:59] <Danimal-office> lol
[21:46:06] <cradek> clankity clankity clankity clankity clankity clankity clankity rattle SKID
[21:46:09] <BlackMoon> usally resulting in some nasty ass sounds and the car.. eventualy stoping.. or the back wheels locking :)
[21:46:12] <Jymmm> reverse works better
[21:46:16] <BlackMoon> Nah
[21:46:24] <BlackMoon> reverse is locked out in a lot of cars over 10kph or so
[21:46:25] <Danimal-office> that little pin in the transmission will shear off before it stops a car at speed
[21:46:30] <Jymmm> especially when the axel drops then you have a physical anchor
[21:46:36] <BlackMoon> Jymmm: hah
[21:46:49] <BlackMoon> Danimal-office: unless it succeeds in locking the back tires
[21:46:57] <BlackMoon> and then your traction goes way down
[21:47:08] <Danimal-office> it's usually only about a 3/8" pin
[21:47:13] <Danimal-office> at most
[21:47:57] <Danimal-office> and they're spring loaded so it usually wont even engage unless the car is moving pretty damn slow.
[21:48:05] <BlackMoon> ah
[21:48:34] <Danimal-office> it'll just skip across the holes
[21:49:36] <skunkworks_> http://imagebin.ca/view/LrdKg5Mb.html
[21:49:45] <Danimal-office> cradek: do you have any hardinge floating tap holders for your lathe?
[21:50:08] <cradek> I have one sorta floaty thing but I don't know what it is or how to use it
[21:50:19] <cradek> when I tap, I just rigid tap in a drill chuck
[21:50:41] <Danimal-office> ah
[21:50:47] <skunkworks_> Gasp! not a drill chuck! ;)
[21:51:07] <cradek> you make do with what you've got...
[21:51:11] <Danimal-office> my tool guy has one he showed me today... pretty nice looking
[21:51:16] <BlackMoon> heh
[21:51:20] <BlackMoon> I loose tap in a drill chuck
[21:51:25] <Danimal-office> but i dont think i can justify the $120 he wants for it
[21:51:33] <BlackMoon> just manauly turn the drill spindle over while pushing the quill down
[21:51:44] <alex_joni> why would you rigid tap a drill chuck?
[21:51:46] <BlackMoon> as soon as the chuck slips on the round tap shank I take the chuck off and finish with a wrench
[21:52:15] <BlackMoon> that way it never gets broken (by power taping) yet starts off perfictly straight
[21:52:19] <cradek> I don't hand tap much anymore :-)
[21:52:30] <Danimal-office> BlackMoon, no drill spindle or quill here, we're talking lathes
[21:52:41] <Danimal-office> cradek: showoff!
[21:53:05] <Danimal-office> thats the only thing my mill is missing besides servos
[21:53:47] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HLKXeWqTF0
[21:54:10] <Danimal-office> yea yea, i saw it lol
[21:54:20] <Danimal-office> nice, i'm jealous
[21:54:33] <Danimal-office> did you get the resistor mounted yet?
[21:54:40] <cradek> heh, nope :-)
[21:54:45] <cradek> you know how it is
[21:55:07] <Danimal-office> yea, i still havent mounted the lathe one either
[21:55:17] <Danimal-office> not sure where to put it
[21:56:11] <Danimal-office> hmm maybe inside the base
[21:56:27] <Danimal-office> what do you think
[21:56:35] <cradek> oil warmer
[21:56:46] <Danimal-office> lol it wont get warm
[21:57:42] <Danimal-office> i gotta swap out all that ultra lite oil and put in the lite
[21:57:54] <Danimal-office> the pail just came in
[21:58:04] <BlackMoon> Danimal-office: Ok well, tailstock and lathe spindle then :)
[21:58:06] <BlackMoon> still works.
[21:58:24] <Danimal-office> no tailstock here
[21:58:43] <Danimal-office> turret lathe :)
[21:58:46] <BlackMoon> Ok then use your carriage and set it to threading mode of the right TPI and a BXA MT2 holder
[21:59:03] <BlackMoon> or whatever holders you use
[21:59:07] <Danimal-office> cnc lathe
[21:59:16] <BlackMoon> Sheessh!
[21:59:19] <BlackMoon> allways making shit diffacult
[21:59:20] <Danimal-office> lol
[21:59:29] <BlackMoon> its just taping man really!
[21:59:34] <Danimal-office> haha
[22:00:09] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon hands Danimal-office a boring bar with a HSS threading bit mounted
[22:00:11] <BlackMoon> Happy now???
[22:00:25] <Danimal-office> i prefer indexable carbide
[22:00:57] <Danimal-office> i havent used hss in years lol
[22:01:01] <BlackMoon> Yea yea I havent gotten around to buying one of those
[22:01:11] <BlackMoon> HSS is still great :)
[22:01:13] <Danimal-office> although hss has its uses
[22:01:20] <BlackMoon> Mainly for plastic and form tools IMO... :)
[22:01:27] <Danimal-office> yea
[22:01:40] <BlackMoon> Try and find a 45degree+ rake supersharp carbide insert
[22:01:55] <BlackMoon> (Yea you can get 25~ degree supersharp aluminum inserts but..)
[22:02:11] <Danimal-office> i can grind one
[22:02:14] <BlackMoon> one company actualy makes HSS inserts for carbide stuff
[22:02:34] <BlackMoon> haha.. I don't try and regrind inserts
[22:03:03] <Danimal-office> i'll grind one if i need special geometry
[22:03:03] <BlackMoon> probley because I don't have a grinder for my diamond wheel
[22:03:22] <Danimal-office> yea, i just throw the diamond wheel on my surface grinder
[22:03:29] <Danimal-office> it helps
[22:03:36] <BlackMoon> I got the diamond wheel.. but returned my toolroom grinder
[22:03:53] <BlackMoon> (it was overpriced KBCtools filth not 1/10th as good as horrorfreights grinder)
[22:04:18] <BlackMoon> it was like, it was made by a near sighted chinese farmer who only once saw a blury low res photo of one in a magazine somewhere
[22:04:19] <Danimal-office> i just got a Harig Super 612 surface grinder
[22:04:25] <Danimal-office> lol
[22:04:25] <JT-Hardinge> I can hook the signals to either plus or minus on the 7i37 and no red light... when I connect the opposite terminal to my 4 into 1 wire and plug it in I get a red light
[22:04:30] <BlackMoon> everything that could possabley be wrong was wrong
[22:04:39] <tom3p> harig 612 good tool
[22:05:03] <BlackMoon> it did'nt have holes taped/drilled for the diamond wheel on the right side, it did'nt reverse, its tables could not get within 3/4" of the diamond wheels due to the way they mounted the back plates (with 1" nuts!)
[22:05:09] <Danimal-office> tom3p, yea, it's the grinder i learned on.. simple and solid
[22:05:17] <Danimal-office> and a dime a dozen
[22:05:26] <Danimal-office> JT-Hardinge, i dont follow
[22:05:26] <BlackMoon> it had no starter relay or switch of any kind, just a pittafuly undersized starting cap to prevent burning out the windings
[22:05:35] <tom3p> mitsuis got popular, pretty good, low price, hurt harig
[22:05:44] <BlackMoon> resulting in the grinder taking 30+ seconds to spin up to speed and often blowing deticated 15A slowblow brakers in the process
[22:06:06] <BlackMoon> like id have to give it a flick to get started if I wanted it to start before the braker blows
[22:06:10] <Danimal-office> JT-Hardinge, whats a 4 into 1 wire
[22:06:15] <JT-Hardinge> I'm hooking up the turret encoder and I have 24+ on two lines and 22- on the other two in the current position
[22:06:20] <Danimal-office> and what are you pligging it into
[22:06:36] <BlackMoon> I e-mailed the CEO that if they wish to continue selling such trash, they will need to make a longer return reason form because I ran outta room
[22:06:39] <JT-Hardinge> I tie the 4 positive posts to my 24v rail for everything else
[22:06:46] <Danimal-office> tom3p, you can score a 612 for dirt cheap
[22:07:06] <tom3p> all of em too damn low for 6'4" dude, you vstood with feet about 50inches apart or spent the Day bent over
[22:07:29] <Danimal-office> JT-Hardinge, if you give me a few, i'll look to see what i did
[22:07:32] <JT-Hardinge> so it is not a simple "I hooked it up backwards" issue
[22:07:46] <JT-Hardinge> I tried both ways LOL
[22:07:47] <BlackMoon> tom3p: buy some large blocks of steel
[22:07:48] <Danimal-office> tom3p, yea, i'm about 6'2 so i hear ya
[22:08:07] <Danimal-office> JT-Hardinge, i had an issue too, but i forgot how i fixed it. lemme go look
[22:08:08] <tom3p> need the walker chuck, herman schmidt vise and one of those sliding dressers
[22:08:09] <BlackMoon> like, an I beam and chop it up
[22:08:14] <JT-Hardinge> ok
[22:08:16] <BlackMoon> maybe weld plate on top
[22:08:16] <JT-Hardinge> thanks
[22:08:25] <Danimal-office> tom3p, i got a walker chuck, they are nice
[22:08:28] <BlackMoon> instant taller lathe!
[22:08:40] <BlackMoon> Alternatly, just dig a hole in the ground. :)
[22:10:34] <tom3p> JT-Hardinge, why + and -? sounds like telephone power.. is the - of the +24 the same as the plus of the -22? (tele are 'stacked')
[22:11:47] <JT-Hardinge> tom3p: I don't have a clue... there are 6 wires from the encoder 0v buss, 24v buss, and 4 signal lines that give you 1 - 8
[22:12:20] <JT-Hardinge> the wires have a weight of 1, 2, 4, 8 so if 1 and 2 are on your in position 3
[22:13:44] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, i have all the positive input terminals going to the + on the power supply, and the signal wires going to the negative terminals
[22:13:59] <aa-danimal-shop> but mine is 12v
[22:14:08] <JT-Hardinge> aa-danimal-shop: that is how I have all the rest of mine
[22:14:38] <JT-Hardinge> I must need some kind of flywheel gizmo diode or something
[22:14:59] <JT-Hardinge> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/TurretEncoder02.jpg
[22:15:07] <JT-Hardinge> tom3p: ^^
[22:15:42] <BlackMoon> Thats cute, what are those 4 pin IC's? hall sensores?
[22:16:02] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, how are you supplying power to it?
[22:16:07] <JT-Hardinge> yes
[22:16:34] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe there's an issue there
[22:16:41] <JT-Hardinge> the little black thingies with 4 legs?
[22:16:46] <BlackMoon> yea
[22:16:51] <JT-Hardinge> dunno
[22:17:07] <BlackMoon> lol..
[22:17:09] <JT-Hardinge> there is a magnet on an arm above them
[22:17:15] <JT-Hardinge> not in the photo
[22:17:37] <aa-danimal-shop> hall effect switches
[22:18:28] <BlackMoon> yea likey hall effect then
[22:18:38] <BlackMoon> Theres other techs of course, but its usally hall :)
[22:19:09] <JT-Hardinge> maybe I need some pull sideways resistors or something...
[22:19:19] <BlackMoon> Theres hall effect with built in magnets now and processing hardware that works on just (ferrous) gear teeth and such too.
[22:19:27] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, stupid question, but you are connecting power to the encoder, right?
[22:19:36] <JT-Hardinge> yes
[22:20:15] <JT-Hardinge> no stupid questions at this stage Dan
[22:20:41] <aa-danimal-shop> the signal wires are grounding to the negative wire that powers the encoder
[22:21:20] <aa-danimal-shop> so you should see a closed circuit between signal and - when that bit is active
[22:21:33] <JT-Hardinge> I don't understand
[22:21:44] <tom3p> they detect, there seems to a 6vwire cable and 2 of those are likely power and 8 sensors, thats leaves the 1 2 4 8 weighted lines... what do you see when sensor #1 is near the dog , measured to the - of this pcb's power?
[22:22:04] <aa-danimal-shop> your 7i37 is not supplying the power to the encoder, there is a seperate power connection on it
[22:22:14] <JT-Hardinge> correct
[22:22:57] <JT-Hardinge> tom3p: yes one is 0v and one is 24v and the other 4 are signals
[22:23:34] <JT-Hardinge> I'm in position 3 atm and two wires read +24v and two read -22v
[22:23:41] <aa-danimal-shop> when the magnet is over a given hall switch, it will be 0 ohms or close to it between 0v and signal for whatever signal wires are active from that hal switch
[22:24:00] <tom3p> and what do you see from weight1 to 0V when dog is near sensor1?
[22:24:34] <aa-danimal-shop> i think you got something backwards
[22:24:40] <tom3p> the whole -22 is goofy
[22:25:05] <aa-danimal-shop> you shouldnt see voltage.... it shorts to 0v
[22:25:06] <tom3p> aint no -22 going in, isolate this thing
[22:25:41] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe you got the power wires to the encoder reversed
[22:25:57] <JT-Hardinge> the two that are on show 22v to ground the two that are off show 0.002somthing to ground
[22:26:08] <tom3p> cool
[22:26:14] <tom3p> thats real
[22:26:30] <aa-danimal-shop> hmmm
[22:26:58] <JT-Hardinge> the power wires were all ready connected in the X axis encoder box to a buss there
[22:26:58] <tom3p> they are almost perfect rail to rail
[22:27:14] <aa-danimal-shop> ok then you need to change your setup... hook your signal wire to the positive input on the 7i37, and the ground wire goes to the negative terminal
[22:27:27] <aa-danimal-shop> yours is backwards of mine
[22:27:30] <JT-Hardinge> tried that and I get a red light
[22:27:59] <tom3p> ok, what did halmeter say?
[22:28:29] <JT-Hardinge> I have not got past a red light on the 7i37 yet
[22:29:23] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: does it have removable screw-terminal connectors?
[22:29:43] <Jymmm> unplugable
[22:30:05] <JT-Hardinge> if I connect the + lead of the DMM to the 24v buss and read each lines two are +24v and two are +2v
[22:30:19] <JT-Hardinge> Jymmm: the 7i37?
[22:30:32] <Jymmm> y
[22:30:51] <JT-Hardinge> the two that read +24 are 4 and 8 so that is not a good combination
[22:30:56] <JT-Hardinge> yes Jymmm
[22:31:07] <JT-Hardinge> 7i37TA's
[22:31:20] <Jymmm> JT-Hardinge: unpowered, unplug them one at a time and see if the red led clears.
[22:32:02] <JT-Hardinge> did that and the red light only clears when I don't have the "other" side tied together
[22:32:30] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, i swear i had the same problem
[22:32:31] <JT-Hardinge> I can connect all 4 signals to either + or - so long as the opposite is not connected to anything
[22:32:49] <Kirk_Wallace> Does limit3 exist in EMC2 2.3.5? Debug file information: insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/modules/emc2/limit3.ko': -1 File exists
[22:33:03] <aa-danimal-shop> what does your hal look like for those pins?
[22:33:49] <JT-Hardinge> Kirk_Wallace: I see it in the automagiclly generated man pages
[22:33:55] <SWPadnos> yes, it's been there for quite a while
[22:34:08] <aa-danimal-shop> guess that doesnt matter
[22:34:10] <SWPadnos> maybe since the first EMC2 release
[22:34:19] <Kirk_Wallace> Okay, I'll keep looking. Thanks
[22:34:29] <SWPadnos> what are the last few lines of dmesg?
[22:34:37] <SWPadnos> (dmesg | tail -20)
[22:34:46] <JT-Hardinge> Kirk_Wallace: I'm trying to connect my turret encoder to my 7i37 and am not getting what I expect
[22:35:17] <SWPadnos> Kirk_Wallace, put the output of that command on http://pastebin.ca
[22:35:21] <JT-Hardinge> got any time to jabber about it?
[22:36:45] <Kirk_Wallace> JTH : I used the parallel port for my changer encoder.
[22:37:07] <BlackMoon> hahaha
[22:37:15] <BlackMoon> On a divorce case that I was once working on, my client, who was a journeyman auto technician, owned an extensive set of Snap-on tools, probably close to $50K worth at retail. Wife wanted half the value.
[22:37:15] <BlackMoon> Upon valuation by a professonal appraiser to whom both sides had agreed, they were considered to be worth less than 30% of retail for purposes of dividing the value. The reason was, that the tools were kept in a shop with other technicians and all were marked with my client's initials. Had they been unmarked, they would have been worth far more.
[22:37:18] <JT-Hardinge> with a breakout board
[22:37:20] <JT-Hardinge> ?
[22:37:25] <BlackMoon> (from forum)
[22:38:14] <PCW> JT-Hardinge what danimal said: you need to connect the -in pins on the 7I37 to ground, and the +in pins to the signals
[22:38:14] <Kirk_Wallace> JTH : I used opto-isolators to change the +12V sinals to 5.
[22:38:21] <aa-danimal-shop> JT-Hardinge, wish i could help but i'm stumped
[22:39:43] <Kirk_Wallace> JTH : See http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00013-1a.jpg Turret Input Conv
[22:39:55] <JT-Hardinge> pcw I have them that way now and if I connect an on pin and an off pin to ground I get a red light
[22:40:03] <aa-danimal-shop> i think yours is pnp, mine is npn i believe
[22:40:50] <JT-Hardinge> if I only connect the two on pins or the two off pins to ground no red light
[22:40:55] <JT-Hardinge> to ground
[22:41:36] <aa-danimal-shop> and what happens if you reversed the polarity of the inputs on the 7i37?
[22:42:03] <tom3p> +24 to pcb, pcb output to + of 7i37, -of 7i37 to 0(24vdc)
[22:42:24] <tom3p> what is this red led (aint in the manual for 7i37)
[22:42:26] <PCW> A red light means you have reversed input, perhaps an input wiring error like an input wired across two signals
[22:43:37] <Kirk_Wallace> JTH : The 7i37 has opto-isolators on their inputs with a + and a - terminal?
[22:43:47] <PCW> right topm3p there should be no way to get - inputs that way
[22:43:49] <PCW> danimal (nothing except red light goes on)
[22:43:58] <PCW> Yep
[22:44:23] <PCW> and the reverse protection diode is a red LED
[22:44:41] <JT-Hardinge> could the encoder board be leaking enough voltage to cause the issue?
[22:44:44] <aa-danimal-shop> PCW, i know what happens if it's incorrect, i was asking JT-Hardinge what happens when he reverses it from the way he has it when the red lights are on
[22:44:54] <tom3p> isolate the sensor pcb, isolate thge 7i37, dont have any extra/other gnds or power
[22:45:40] <Kirk_Wallace> Each + and - terminal float, don't they?
[22:45:46] <JT-Hardinge> I can connect the 4 signals to either + or - as soon as I connect the opposite terminals together I get a red light
[22:46:16] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge what are you up to?
[22:46:22] <PCW> Maybe your ground isn't
[22:48:32] <PCW> "I can connect the 4 signals to either + or - as soon as I connect the opposite terminals together I get a red light"
[22:48:33] <PCW> actually thats just what I would expect if the -inputs were not all returned to ground
[22:49:23] <pfred1> * pfred1 wishes he knew what was being discussed
[22:49:31] <Kirk_Wallace> Maybe the - terminal wire doesn't ground to the senser board power supply ground?
[22:49:58] <PCW> gots to be an open ground
[22:50:07] <Kirk_Wallace> pfred1 : JTH is trying to get his 7i37 inputs working.
[22:50:20] <JT-Hardinge> if I connect the + lead of the DMM to the 24v buss and read each lines two are +24v and two are +2v
[22:51:03] <pfred1> I've seen voltages register that dissapeared when loaded too
[22:51:23] <aa-danimal-shop> i dont know why they even have it into 4 bits. why not just come directly off each of the 4 hall effect switches?
[22:51:47] <Kirk_Wallace> There are eight.
[22:51:58] <tom3p> JT-Hardinge, can you get other combinbations too ( not just 2hi 2lo)?
[22:51:59] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop doesn't 4 signals give you 4 bits?
[22:52:03] <JT-Hardinge> if I connect the - lead of the DMM to the 0v rail two lines read +22v and two read -.02
[22:52:12] <JT-Hardinge> tom3p: yes
[22:52:36] <tom3p> ah, the -.2 thats an open
[22:52:44] <Kirk_Wallace> 0000 0001 0010 0011 0100 ...
[22:53:09] <tom3p> always msr related to the gnd, ok good
[22:53:10] <PCW> are all the 7I47 -inputs connected to the 0V rail?
[22:53:24] <JT-Hardinge> yes
[22:53:59] <tom3p> pcw use pull ups?
[22:54:04] <JT-Hardinge> all the other ones are wired + pin to 24v rail and - pin to sensor and then on to 0v rail
[22:54:14] <JT-Hardinge> on the 7i37
[22:54:17] <pfred1> tom3p PCW is potty trained!
[22:55:58] <PCW> But for the encoder the - inputs need to be wired to 0 rail, no 24V involved
[22:56:17] <pfred1> PCW thats how I'm doing mine
[22:56:50] <JT-Hardinge> pcw it is not a real encoder
[22:57:23] <JT-Hardinge> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/TurretEncoder02.jpg
[22:57:44] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge looks real enough to me
[22:57:54] <PCW> Well it looked like that encoder uses a LM324 which will swing to ground but not VCC so the OPTOs need to sense relative to ground
[22:58:45] <JT-Hardinge> yep a lm324m
[22:58:48] <Kirk_Wallace> Doooh. I put "addf limit3..." in twice (hitting head).
[22:58:56] <pfred1> quad comparator?
[22:59:15] <PCW> hence 4 7I37 -in pins tied to common 0V rail, 4 corresponding +inputs wired to signals
[22:59:17] <PCW> quad op-amp
[22:59:42] <Kirk_Wallace> The LM324 will sink or source a few or more mA won't they?
[23:00:12] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace its stone age tech so sure
[23:00:22] <aa-danimal-shop> PCW, thats the opposite of mine
[23:00:43] <Kirk_Wallace> I think the encoder originally used 12V.
[23:00:46] <PCW> yes push pull but better sink that source IICRC and swings close to ground but not vcc rail
[23:01:20] <aa-danimal-shop> my positives are tied together going to the 12v+ on the power supply, and the signals go to the negative terminals on the 7i37
[23:01:49] <pfred1> heh you got to love when they flag it obsolete product no recommended replacement
[23:02:11] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, our encoders are 12v Kirk_Wallace
[23:02:21] <tom3p> p3 is plus and p12 is gnd and reads ok on the chip?
[23:02:22] <JT-Hardinge> pcw I got a red led if I had not yet connected the -'s to the 0v rail
[23:02:33] <pfred1> well it is good to 32V the LM324
[23:02:37] <JT-Hardinge> once I connect the -'s to the 0v rail no more red led
[23:03:03] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace looks like it'll out 50 ma too
[23:03:17] <tom3p> JT-Hardinge, go on
[23:03:48] <PCW> Yep thats expected (if the common - floats you will have two inputs in series across two signals: one normal, one reversed)
[23:04:11] <JT-Hardinge> LOL I didn't expect that :)
[23:04:33] <JT-Hardinge> and those 4 use the in's not the in-not's
[23:05:41] <PCW> aa-danimal-shop: if your encoder has LM324 output driver JTs way would be slightly better noise immunity wise
[23:06:02] <aa-danimal-shop> PCW, mine only worked this way
[23:06:34] <aa-danimal-shop> i went through the red light issue too, so i swapped things around a bit
[23:06:38] <JT-Hardinge> thanks for helping me muddle through this guys
[23:06:39] <tom3p> 324? sorry
[23:07:14] <tom3p> hold on , what happened how is is solved now?
[23:07:28] <PCW> Well if the outputs swing from ground to +12 or +24 it should always work JTs way
[23:08:29] <aa-danimal-shop> PCW, my signal wires grounded to the negative lead of the power supply when active
[23:08:46] <tom3p> is the red lite off now? is it hooked up like "+24 to pcb, pcb output to + of 7i37, -of 7i37 to 0(24vdc)" ?
[23:08:56] <JT-Hardinge> tom3p: I had to connect the -'s to the 0v rail and not just let them be connected together
[23:09:06] <tom3p> oh
[23:09:24] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge good job!
[23:09:39] <PCW> tom3p floating ground (-ins tied together but not to 0V rail) so 24V input got split between two 7I37 inputs one with +12 the other with -12
[23:09:50] <tom3p> yep hanging in air!
[23:10:10] <JT-Hardinge> ahh, Peter saved the day again :)
[23:10:23] <Kirk_Wallace> Wahoo.
[23:10:27] <pfred1> so it is dual supply?
[23:10:30] <JT-Hardinge> I'm just a techno monkey
[23:10:37] <tom3p> we get good support fromPCW & Mesa
[23:10:51] <JT-Hardinge> err, techno monkey redneck
[23:11:37] <JT-Hardinge> best thing is NO SMOKE was released during this phase of conversion :)
[23:12:25] <aa-danimal-shop> haha
[23:12:40] <tom3p> stiil a favorite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Wy7gRGgeA but i am NaM (notamonkey)
[23:12:54] <PCW> aa-danimal-shop as long as the outputs swing to +12 or +24 it should work either way
[23:12:56] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge LM324a are worth about a nickel on the open market :)
[23:12:56] <PCW> my concern was that with LM324 output devices (that swing only up to 22 V) the opto input would see 2V
[23:12:58] <PCW> when the PS voltage was used as a common instead of 0V
[23:13:00] <aa-danimal-shop> glad you got it figured out JT-Hardinge
[23:13:38] <JT-Hardinge> pfred1: the spares cost me about $1.22 each
[23:13:38] <Kirk_Wallace> JT-Hardinge : So are you getting nibbles?
[23:13:49] <JT-Hardinge> nibbles?
[23:13:58] <Kirk_Wallace> Half a byte
[23:14:02] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge a half a byte
[23:14:24] <JT-Hardinge> * JT-Hardinge has a confused look on his face atm
[23:14:28] <tom3p> ripply nibbles
[23:14:40] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge 4 bits is a nibble
[23:14:42] <aa-danimal-shop> nipples?
[23:14:46] <JT-Hardinge> ahh
[23:14:51] <PCW> encoder data nibbles
[23:14:52] <JT-Hardinge> yes I have nibletts
[23:14:56] <pfred1> aa-danimal-shop those usually come in pairs
[23:15:10] <JT-Hardinge> I'm sitting on position 3 atm and wsum says so
[23:15:18] <Kirk_Wallace> Cooool
[23:16:10] <JT-Hardinge> Kirk, Way Cool... all I had to replace was the tan pointy thingy on the encoder board
[23:16:24] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge capacitor
[23:16:27] <aa-danimal-shop> lol technical terms
[23:17:03] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge it was a nice capacitor too!
[23:17:04] <tom3p> was pointy thing across 24V supply ?
[23:17:26] <JT-Hardinge> there is so much chicken scratch on the encoder part of my drawings it ain't funny
[23:17:52] <JT-Hardinge> tom3p: I can't tell at this point
[23:17:56] <Kirk_Wallace> 12 V supply?
[23:18:02] <JT-Hardinge> 24v
[23:18:03] <tom3p> the marconi confetti generator (an old electrolytic hang across ac :)
[23:18:12] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge the chicken scratch is piling up for my port buffer board here too!
[23:18:14] <tom3p> ban g!
[23:18:38] <Kirk_Wallace> But the original cap was rated at 24, you need a safety zone?
[23:19:23] <pfred1> tom3p I made some 120VAC steppers run once by making a phase shifting capacitor out of a string of electrolytics
[23:19:37] <JT-Hardinge> I got the 35v one you linked to
[23:20:07] <JT-Hardinge> oh, they were $1.22 and the LM324 was $0.46
[23:20:22] <PCW> JT-Hardinge if you want to get really fancy you can connect the 4 - inputs to 12V
[23:20:23] <PCW> Kirk_Wallace is there really a 24V capacitor rating, 25 is common but 24?
[23:20:40] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge you could probbaly beat that LM 324 with a hammer and it'
[23:20:49] <pfred1> JT-Hardinge you could probbaly beat that LM 324 with a hammer and it'd still do what it does
[23:21:14] <JT-Hardinge> pcw, I think I'll leave it be as it seems to be working now :)
[23:21:26] <tom3p> i was thinking it was 329, didnt catch that
[23:21:31] <Kirk_Wallace> I'm a liitle nervous about the sensors rated at 20V.
[23:21:38] <Kirk_Wallace> little
[23:22:13] <tom3p> now what did this thing do? decide dr.pepper vs pepsi?
[23:22:43] <Kirk_Wallace> I don't remember the actual cap rating, 24 or 25 is what I remember.
[23:22:44] <pfred1> tom3p it is for a gaming table fix
[23:23:45] <tom3p> http://wapedia.mobi/en/The_Eudaemonic_Pie
[23:24:03] <tom3p> predicting roulette
[23:24:24] <tom3p> true(ish)story
[23:24:33] <JT-Hardinge> Dan did you email me your latest ladder?
[23:25:51] <Kirk_Wallace> PCW : The 7i37 inputs work down to something like 4V?
[23:26:07] <pfred1> so, does anyone want to see my latest schematic?
[23:27:02] <Kirk_Wallace> pfred1 : Whatcha got?
[23:27:21] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace it is a parallel port buffer I am working on
[23:28:52] <Kirk_Wallace> pfred1 : How far along are you?
[23:28:56] <tom3p> weel good stuff JT-Hardinge one step closer
[23:29:32] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace well it is done except i want to change the connector to match a dual header like comes off DB-25 ribbons
[23:29:47] <JT-Hardinge> yep, one small step for JT... one giant leap for Cocoa (my girlfriend)
[23:29:57] <JT-Hardinge> she likes to jump up in the air
[23:31:04] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace I've already run a breadboarded model of the output section and it ran my motor driver fine in stepperconf wizard axis test
[23:31:33] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace the input part I haven't tried yet I guess I should though
[23:32:57] <Kirk_Wallace> Dumb question - why are some of the user names red on my screen?
[23:33:10] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace is your name first on the line?
[23:33:44] <Kirk_Wallace> I don't think so.
[23:33:58] <pfred1> so my last line wasn't red?
[23:34:10] <pfred1> this line 18:33 < pfred1> Kirk_Wallace is your name first on the line?
[23:34:29] <Kirk_Wallace> Just your "pfred1"
[23:34:46] <pfred1> yes its a highlight if someone refferences you in the channel
[23:35:00] <pfred1> some IRC channels have hundreds of people all chatting at once it can get a bit confusing
[23:35:36] <Kirk_Wallace> Oooh. Yes see. Dooh.
[23:35:40] <pfred1> type jt then hit the tab button
[23:35:54] <pfred1> thats nick completion
[23:36:08] <Kirk_Wallace> Ah ha
[23:36:20] <pfred1> I just copy paste with a mouse
[23:36:21] <Jymmm> k<tab>
[23:36:32] <pfred1> can you nick complete yourself?
[23:36:39] <pfred1> pfred1: ha you can!
[23:36:44] <Kirk_Wallace> Kirk_Wallace:
[23:36:49] <Jymmm> Not in THIS client
[23:37:07] <pfred1> yeah i htought that was pretty lame why would you message yourself?
[23:37:07] <Kirk_Wallace> Jymmm:
[23:37:41] <pfred1> Jymmm next we'll teach Kirk_Wallace what a/s/l means :)
[23:37:55] <Jymmm> pfred1: OH NO WE WONT!
[23:37:58] <pfred1> heh
[23:38:19] <Kirk_Wallace> Is this some secret handshake?
[23:38:33] <Jymmm> Kirk_Wallace: No, just some lame ass shit
[23:38:34] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace bit more than a handshake
[23:38:35] <tom3p> very masonic
[23:38:59] <Jymmm> Damn AOL'ers
[23:39:03] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace a/s/l is age/sex/location for people that cyber on IRC
[23:39:25] <Jymmm> pfred1: I should kick you for that
[23:39:51] <pfred1> Jymmm well one should be aware of some things .... birds and bees of IRC in effect
[23:40:04] <Jymmm> pfred1: bullshit, that's AOL speak
[23:40:29] <pfred1> Jymmm donno i never been to AOL but i seen that plenty on IRC
[23:40:45] <Jymmm> pfred1: then stay out of the lame chanels
[23:41:26] <tom3p> heh i would've looked at the line above thinking it was a vi-guy correcting spelling
[23:41:50] <pfred1> that's s/lamah/lamer/g;
[23:41:52] <Jymmm> tom3p: Shall I translate ?
[23:42:44] <Jymmm> Kirk_Wallace: Also, using "A/S/L" in many channels can/will get you booted much of the time.
[23:43:08] <Jymmm> which is why is dumb of pfred1 to be teaching such crap
[23:43:59] <Jymmm> * Jymmm beats pfred1 with a AOL CD, all 100,000 of them!!!!
[23:44:02] <pfred1> /msg Jymmm *rasberry!*
[23:45:07] <Jymmm> * Jymmm sets mode: +goober pfred1
[23:46:55] <Jymmm> lol
[23:47:36] <Jymmm> do you think he took my kidding around a lil too serious?
[23:47:47] <PCW> Kirk_Wallace Yes ~3-4V
[23:48:44] <skunkworks> cradek: I don't think (or I am clueless on the way it works) but I tried to have a contact that was triggered by %C0.V&1 - which I thought would be a the first bit of the word. I also assigned the %CO.V to a %W0 then tried to trigger a contact using %W0&1 (but it says that I must select a boolean variable)
[23:49:22] <skunkworks> and having a hard time finding info on this.
[23:50:11] <Jymmm> a "boolean variable"??? Is the variable your using NOT boolean (on/off) ?
[23:50:42] <JT-Hardinge> skunkworks: ladder?
[23:50:48] <skunkworks> yes
[23:51:11] <skunkworks> I want to convert a number to 4 bit binary
[23:51:37] <skunkworks> (to control 4 outputs
[23:51:38] <skunkworks> )
[23:51:49] <JT-Hardinge> using some compares?
[23:53:09] <skunkworks> well - I could - but I thought that I could (by using the &1, &2, &3 and so on - I could extract the bits from the word) But like I said - I must not be doing it right
[23:53:25] <JT-Hardinge> hmmm
[23:53:42] <skunkworks> or it isn't possible ;)
[23:53:54] <skunkworks> I suppose I could do it in hal - making a little comp that does it.
[23:54:03] <skunkworks> but what fun would that be ;)
[23:54:07] <JT-Hardinge> that sounds easier
[23:54:58] <JT-Hardinge> I don't know if you can use the bit of a word like that in classicladder
[23:55:20] <JT-Hardinge> I can in most plcs I deal with or just use a function in them
[23:56:00] <tom3p> ladder decoder http://openbookproject.net/electricCircuits/Digital/DIGI_9.html
[23:57:53] <JT-Hardinge> tom3p: good link