#emc | Logs for 2010-03-05

[00:00:12] <Valen> I was thinking of mounting the lathe tool changer off he head
[00:01:02] <robh_> if u can lock the spindle, u could put booring bars into collets etc just like they do on mill turns in effect
[00:01:38] <Valen> I was having the rotary axis at 90 deg to the mill spindle axis
[00:01:46] <BlackMoon> lol at boring bars in a mill head, thats just weird man
[00:02:32] <BlackMoon> I think your going at it the wrong way
[00:02:36] <robh_> id not like to know what it does to spindle bearings mind you
[00:02:38] <BlackMoon> you should add a mill to a lathe
[00:02:47] <BlackMoon> live tooling
[00:02:58] <BlackMoon> and a servo for the spindle
[00:03:04] <Valen> 's why I didn't want to use the spindle to hold tools.
[00:03:17] <robh_> i was thinging of doing that with our 2nd lathe im refitting, sticking AC motor on for live tooling
[00:03:18] <Valen> just mount a rotary tool changer on the head
[00:03:48] <BlackMoon> iv seen some really simple ass live tooling systems based around a BXA 1" boring bar holder :)
[00:04:01] <BlackMoon> Like an overgrown flex shaft deal mounted in there
[00:04:45] <robh_> well the turret is 90% live tooling ready, as they did the lathe with live tooling, so i just need to put shaft in there, and sort the mounting out
[00:04:49] <BlackMoon> also same deal for tool post grinding with a die grinder in the boring bar holder, lol
[00:06:28] <Valen> that 40W laser cutter thing, I was thinking of getting a 40W LED laser and making a "tool" out of that to just put into the mill
[00:07:01] <BlackMoon> they have 40W laser leds?
[00:07:07] <Valen> yeah
[00:07:12] <BlackMoon> Iv only heard of up to 200mW or so
[00:07:18] <Valen> last time I looked they were ~$200 or so
[00:07:24] <BlackMoon> .... uhhh
[00:07:26] <robh_> here you go valen, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX75gaAcWWA
[00:07:31] <BlackMoon> im pertty sure you mean 40mW or sometihng
[00:07:39] <Valen> no i mean 40 watts
[00:07:44] <BlackMoon> url?
[00:07:46] <Valen> they use them for laser cutting
[00:08:30] <BlackMoon> lol at offcenter turning
[00:09:11] <BlackMoon> all the 200mW lasers iv seen have been like $200~300
[00:09:32] <robh_> ri im off get some sleep, laters all
[00:09:38] <Valen> you can get green lasers in that price range and power
[00:10:12] <Valen> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1998
[00:10:29] <BlackMoon> gez they have gotten cheap
[00:10:49] <BlackMoon> 'Note: pictures show our 10mW version which is identical in appearance to the 150mW version (except power output and the warning label on it)' lols
[00:10:51] <Valen> they are shit though, no IR filter so it'll burn your retina off
[00:11:27] <BlackMoon> 'some products sold are marked to be 200mW while they are really less than that. These are manufacturer claimed. We do not have the adequate equipments to test output so we recommend you to thoroughly read about these and only buy them if you feel comfortable doing so'
[00:11:36] <Valen> yeah
[00:11:47] <Valen> for $30 shipped what did you expect?
[00:12:18] <BlackMoon> well I mean the last 200mW one I saw looked more like a 2C flashlight or something
[00:12:21] <BlackMoon> and was $200
[00:12:55] <Valen> http://cgi.ebay.com/Opto-Power-40w-Laser-Diode-808nm-NdYV04-Pump-DPSS-Burns_W0QQitemZ250588032711QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a5835eec7#ht_1906wt_1167
[00:13:07] <BlackMoon> wow.
[00:13:11] <BlackMoon> 808nm.. IR?
[00:13:20] <Valen> yeah
[00:13:26] <BlackMoon> scary
[00:13:47] <BlackMoon> wonderful picture he posted lol
[00:14:05] <Valen> looks like ~$400 is the sell price on them
[00:14:27] <BlackMoon> still a LOT lower then I would of ever expected.
[00:14:43] <BlackMoon> I thought like 40W would be 1k at least, possabley not even includeing power supply and shit.
[00:14:45] <ds3> aren't the 40W laser diodes 808nm?
[00:14:47] <Valen> actualy he has 8 available for $275 per
[00:14:58] <BlackMoon> ds3: yes
[00:15:16] <ds3> BlackMoon: it might not cut as well as a CO2 laser
[00:15:25] <BlackMoon> IR definately sucks/scary, but still impressive.
[00:15:31] <BlackMoon> ds3: Yea, but the price sure is attractive
[00:15:34] <Valen> hmm would need an IR screen around the mill lest you burn the crap out of yourself with a stray reflection
[00:15:50] <ds3> BlackMoon: do they sell a driver circuit/power supply?
[00:15:54] <BlackMoon> afaik CO2 lasers arnt that expensive but the PSU/etc isent exactly cheap and either is the power
[00:16:01] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon shrugs, ask Valen
[00:16:20] <BlackMoon> I wonder if they sell like, night vision goggles without the NV part for lasers
[00:16:33] <BlackMoon> basicly just a webcam + cheesy LCD goggles
[00:16:44] <BlackMoon> that'd fully protect your eyes AND let you see IR!
[00:16:44] <ds3> BlackMoon: they have toy versions of those
[00:16:59] <ds3> but AFAIK, they don't work with the 10.6um lasers
[00:17:18] <BlackMoon> Of course, 40W is still enough to give you serious 3rd degree burns, but oh well. at least you'll see the beam when it happens. :p
[00:17:31] <BlackMoon> 10.6um?
[00:17:37] <ds3> CO2 laser wavelength, IIRC
[00:17:38] <Valen> http://cgi.ebay.com/Spectra-Physics-06500105-Laser-Head-Newport_W0QQitemZ250537036402QQihZ015QQcategoryZ109452QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ht_1802wt_1167
[00:17:42] <BlackMoon> Oh.
[00:17:51] <Valen> nah would be longer than that I belive
[00:17:58] <Valen> Co2 is greenish last time I saw one
[00:18:08] <ds3> not the cutting lasers
[00:18:11] <BlackMoon> Well
[00:18:21] <BlackMoon> reguardless, some kinda LCD/webcam helmet would protect you from lasers
[00:18:25] <BlackMoon> even if you can't see them on the webcam
[00:18:41] <BlackMoon> assumeing the laser doesnt burn right through your stupid glasses that is :P
[00:18:43] <Valen> nope right you are
[00:18:44] <ds3> or just have it behind a box with a filter
[00:18:52] <Valen> 10 um give or take
[00:19:01] <ds3> most things absorb 10.6um quite well
[00:19:18] <Valen> its UV, so your cornea will, might save your retina
[00:19:49] <BlackMoon> Oh joy, baked corneas, thats so much better.
[00:20:01] <Valen> well you can replace those
[00:20:07] <BlackMoon> I don't think having your eyeball turn into scrambled eggs would save ya much.. :P
[00:20:23] <pfred1> I just installed emc2 on a system here and am having some troubles getting it to NAT through this box so I can get it networked I can ping this box etc just my iptables commands seem wrong can nayone help me?
[00:20:24] <Valen> thing is it causes pain and triggers the blink reflex
[00:20:29] <BlackMoon> ah
[00:20:39] <Valen> why are you using iptables on emc?
[00:20:49] <pfred1> Valen I'm not
[00:21:01] <pfred1> Valen iptables is on this system
[00:21:14] <Valen> so your only exposed to 100-200ms vs IR you might close your eyes when you notice the black spots in your vision
[00:21:15] <pfred1> Valen the emc2 box is a client
[00:22:15] <pfred1> Valen I'd like to get the emc2 box online though so I can have access to the Internet on it
[00:23:16] <Valen> your not using your modem as a router or such?
[00:24:14] <pfred1> Valen I have two systems one is the emc2 box one is this one I want to use this box as a masq and have emc2 access the Internet through it
[00:24:33] <Valen> why not use the modem to do all that, they have it all built in pointy clicky
[00:24:44] <pfred1> Valen because the modem is 200 feet away!
[00:24:49] <Valen> so?
[00:25:03] <Valen> ok lets try again
[00:25:08] <pfred1> Valen I don't have a spare 200 foot network cable lying around and Linux can do NAT
[00:25:12] <Valen> describe your network topolgy
[00:25:17] <Valen> start with the modem
[00:25:21] <Valen> is it doing NAT?
[00:25:26] <pfred1> Valen it is unavailable at this location
[00:25:44] <pfred1> Valen the emc2 box is plugging into this one or nothing
[00:25:54] <pfred1> Valen it is not an option
[00:26:01] <Valen> yes but it is a part of your network, and if its bridged or nated makes a difference to how you should be setting up this box
[00:26:19] <pfred1> Valen yes the modem is bridged
[00:26:34] <Valen> so you are running pppoeclient on the machine you are on
[00:26:44] <pfred1> not as far as I know
[00:27:14] <Valen> pastebin output of ifconfig for your box
[00:27:54] <pfred1> http://pastebin.com/DnjH1yJP
[00:29:05] <Valen> right your modem is doing nat, you don't want to set this box up for nat you want to set it up as a bridge
[00:29:26] <pfred1> Valen is that what is different?
[00:29:36] <pfred1> because i have done this before and it was never this difficult
[00:30:03] <Valen> bridge makes the box into a switch basically, it joins the 2 halves of the network, there are no firewall rules
[00:30:38] <pfred1> so I have a few switches lying around can I just plug every box into one switch?
[00:30:48] <Valen> yes
[00:30:55] <pfred1> yeah?
[00:31:14] <pfred1> like the line form the modem into the switch then all the other boxes into the switch too?
[00:31:21] <Valen> if you have a switch just put it where your PC is, plug emc and the current machine into it and then the cable from the modem into it
[00:31:28] <Valen> yes
[00:31:35] <pfred1> that would rock!
[00:31:39] <Valen> do you have switches or modems?
[00:31:52] <pfred1> you mean I've been pulling my hair out all this time and that's al lI had to do?
[00:31:57] <Valen> yes
[00:32:05] <pfred1> I think they're switches
[00:32:14] <pfred1> I've always used them as switches
[00:32:34] <Valen> do they have an ADSL port on them?
[00:32:34] <pfred1> says right on the one i have here 8 port ethernet switch
[00:32:41] <Valen> yeah just plug that in
[00:32:55] <pfred1> all it has is RJ-45s and LEDs
[00:33:04] <Valen> yeah just plug it in
[00:33:18] <pfred1> and my modem will sort it all out?
[00:33:23] <Valen> yes
[00:33:34] <pfred1> oh that'd be leet!
[00:34:00] <pfred1> but then I couldn't local to this box anymore
[00:34:34] <pfred1> well I'll give it a shot
[00:34:49] <Valen> what do you mean local to this box?
[00:35:15] <pfred1> just run direct into this box from the other one just how I'm used to having a LAN setup I guess it isn't too important really
[00:35:38] <Valen> that is the very hard way of setting up a lan
[00:35:48] <pfred1> I prefer my subnet to be static it's just easier for me over time
[00:35:49] <Valen> what did you use switches for before?
[00:35:55] <pfred1> LANs
[00:35:58] <Valen> subnets are static
[00:36:05] <pfred1> that is what they're usually used for right?
[00:36:07] <Valen> LAN stands for local area network
[00:36:16] <pfred1> yes i know what LAN stands for thank you
[00:36:18] <Valen> that means anything on your side of the modem
[00:36:25] <TD-Linux> pfred, with them all connected to a switch you can still connect them to each other
[00:36:36] <TD-Linux> your modem includes a gateway which creates a LAN, apparently
[00:36:38] <Valen> saying you used LANs for switches doesn't make sense to me
[00:36:47] <pfred1> TD-Linux yes but when i shut them down then start them up again DHCP will assign them new IPs
[00:36:55] <TD-Linux> use static IPs
[00:36:57] <Valen> so set them to static IP's in the modem
[00:37:06] <TD-Linux> you don't even need to use the modem
[00:37:06] <Valen> or manually configure the IP addresses
[00:37:13] <pfred1> TD-Linux don't know if my modem will go for that or not
[00:37:14] <TD-Linux> the modem assigns IP addresses in a certain range
[00:37:22] <Valen> most of them do
[00:37:25] <TD-Linux> pfred1: it will
[00:37:33] <TD-Linux> 192.168.1.* is a common range
[00:37:42] <TD-Linux> linksys routers won't assign any computers below .100
[00:37:47] <TD-Linux> so you can do static addresses below that
[00:37:50] <pfred1> the modem seems to sit on
[00:37:51] <TD-Linux> like
[00:38:02] <TD-Linux> yeah, so you could make your box
[00:38:18] <pfred1> just make my box static?
[00:38:18] <Valen> or go into the modem and create a static assignment there
[00:38:22] <Valen> yes
[00:38:33] <pfred1> I've been in there never saw the option
[00:38:39] <Valen> either make a static assignment in the dhcp on the modem or manually configure the machine
[00:38:44] <Valen> whats the model of the modem
[00:38:48] <pfred1> it looks to be a you get what you get to me
[00:39:38] <Valen> TD-Linux, I prefer static dhcp, cos you can change the network easier then ;->
[00:39:54] <TD-Linux> Valen: yeah, my old linksys routers didn't have that :(
[00:39:58] <TD-Linux> until I put dd-wrt on them :)
[00:40:02] <Valen> MUWHAHAH
[00:40:10] <Valen> I hate linksys these days
[00:40:17] <TD-Linux> I got a wrt610n
[00:40:18] <Valen> all their stuff overheats and craps out
[00:40:19] <TD-Linux> worst thing ever
[00:40:56] <Valen> I have had good luck with dreytek but there is some bug with passthrough PPPoE and the open source clients, makes the connection reset after an hour
[00:41:30] <Valen> using a billion for the modem/fw/nat at the moment, after I took the case of and mounted an 80mm fan on top of it, its been much more stable
[00:42:13] <pfred1> I have a MI424-WR modem
[00:43:33] <Valen> you have fiber to the home?
[00:44:04] <Valen> you should not be allowed that internet connection, I hate you
[00:44:05] <pfred1> Valen yes
[00:44:17] <pfred1> it's only 8/2
[00:44:22] <skunkworks> I have had better luck with linksys vs netgear or dlink. (consumer) actually have quite a few wireless links that 'just work'
[00:44:40] <skunkworks> (bridges)
[00:45:04] <Valen> heh I swapped a netgear wireless AP thing for commercial 3com dual antenna thing
[00:45:09] <Valen> cheering ;->
[00:46:24] <pfred1> doing all of this messing around I seem to have a ghost host on my modem now
[00:47:04] <pfred1> I wonder if I should reboot it to get rid of it or not?
[00:47:21] <clytle374> What does this message mean?
[00:47:24] <clytle374> hm2/hm2_5i20.0: hm2_encoder_parse_md() ne=12 inst=12
[00:47:28] <Valen> 'Advanced' > ('Yes') > 'IP Address Distribution' > 'Connection List' > 'DHCP Connections'
[00:47:43] <Valen> that should let you set static assignments I believe
[00:47:47] <Valen> dont bother
[00:48:10] <pfred1> Valen it just seems to display information to me
[00:48:37] <pfred1> Valen I could take a screenshot of it
[00:48:45] <Valen> go to page 137 of the manual
[00:49:29] <Valen> For "Static DHCP" to always assign the same IP to a given device: Click Advanced, Yes, IP Address Distribution, Connection List. If the device you want is in the list and you want it to keep the IP it already has, just click the Hostname link or edit icon, check the box for Static Lease Type and click Apply. Otherwise click New Static Connection and enter the MAC address and IP.
[00:49:49] <pfred1> I was going to just whip the wire over ot the other system for a while but decided to try to get all of this to work
[00:49:50] <Valen> though they may have taken that out with some firmware
[00:50:38] <pfred1> Valen yeah Verizon isn't out there to make nayone's life easier or too happy
[00:52:05] <pfred1> Valen all I have is Access Shared File,s Website Blocking, Block Internet Services, Enable Applications, View Device Details, and Rename this Device
[00:53:09] <Valen> are you in the advanced menu?
[00:53:28] <pfred1> Valen that's where the pretty blue + symbol is on now yes
[00:54:05] <Valen> I dunno, worry about it later, most of the time even with dhcp it should be pretty static untill you power cycle the modem
[00:54:30] <pfred1> Valen like I said in all the excitement earlier i managed to jump IPs on this machine
[00:54:54] <Valen> yeah if you go around requesting new ones and setting static ones it'll make stuff happen
[00:55:05] <Valen> undo all the stuff you had done to try and make NAT
[00:55:29] <pfred1> Valen that was just some iptables rules on this system
[00:55:47] <Valen> you didn't set any static IP addresses or anything
[00:55:53] <Valen> or save the iptables rules?
[00:55:55] <pfred1> which don't appear to do anything to me
[00:56:31] <pfred1> just on the secondary ethernet connection on this box and on the emc2 box
[00:56:36] <Valen> anyway just plug the switch in, and cross your fingers
[00:56:49] <Valen> set the emc box back to dhcp for everything if you have changed it
[00:56:57] <pfred1> or I'll just rip the wire over ot the other machine do what i have to do then move it back
[00:57:03] <pfred1> like I was going to do to begin with
[00:57:18] <pfred1> once i get that box all setup I don't think I'll need an internet connection on it anymore
[00:57:24] <Valen> yeah you do
[00:57:29] <Valen> how else will you talk to us?
[00:57:36] <pfred1> this box
[00:58:35] <pfred1> well I feel better i thought I was doing something wrong and apparently I was!
[00:59:13] <pfred1> I was like this usually takes me all of 2 minutes to do how come its being so difficult totay?
[00:59:30] <Valen> well you are doing it the hard way to start with
[00:59:44] <pfred1> NAT is usually ap iece of cake on Linux
[01:00:02] <pfred1> least it was shen I had cable and DSL
[01:00:20] <Valen> simpler than just plugging stuff in?
[01:00:24] <pfred1> anyhow enough of that
[01:00:29] <Valen> double NAT is a bad idea anyway
[01:00:36] <pfred1> how come?
[01:00:45] <Valen> because things can get lost
[01:00:59] <pfred1> thats nothing new
[01:01:19] <pfred1> but it usually works OK for me
[01:01:27] <pfred1> http://img355.imageshack.us/ifs/6498/img683/2/stepproto1.jpg
[01:02:09] <pfred1> 64 bytes from cnc ( icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.401 ms
[01:02:23] <pfred1> least I got the two boxes ot talk to one and another
[01:04:09] <pfred1> here's my parallel port buffer I am designing http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/5430/bob1i.png
[01:32:24] <pfred1> my homemade stepper motor driver: http://img355.imageshack.us/ifs/6498/img683/2/stepproto1.jpg
[01:37:58] <TD-Linux> pfred1: what kind of transistors are those?
[01:38:02] <TD-Linux> I see few heatsinks
[01:38:14] <TD-Linux> are they H-bridges or something all in one package?
[01:38:43] <pfred1> TD-Linux no transistors but a voltage regulator and an allegro 7026M
[01:39:24] <TD-Linux> oh, a stepper motor driver in a chip?
[01:39:33] <TD-Linux> I assume that's a unipolar motor
[01:39:37] <pfred1> TD-Linux a newer motor driver IS makes its own step sequences this one doesn't
[01:39:46] <pfred1> TD-Linux yes 6 wire
[01:39:56] <TD-Linux> ok, so basically 4 transistors in a case :P
[01:39:56] <pfred1> IC not IS
[01:40:07] <pfred1> well it does current limiting too
[01:40:13] <pfred1> it is PWM
[01:40:47] <pfred1> which would be something else to try to make
[01:42:21] <pfred1> then when I ran two off the same step counter they messed with each other with noise so I had to optically isolate the control lines
[01:42:26] <Jymmm> What's a Southbend 16 x 40 go for? And is it any good?
[01:42:44] <pfred1> Jymmm depends on how worn out it is
[01:43:07] <Jymmm> gimme a number and condition?
[01:45:35] <pfred1> Jymmm here's a guy who wants $1,100 for a 13" http://cgi.ebay.com/Southbend-Lathe-Used-13-swing-Cat-CL145A_W0QQitemZ230442504983QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a7719317
[01:46:01] <Jymmm> But is that good?
[01:46:06] <pfred1> Jymmm and it doesn't exactly look cherry to me
[01:46:43] <pfred1> Jymmm I wouldn't want to try to make one for you for $1,100
[01:46:55] <Jymmm> k
[01:47:18] <pfred1> Jymmm it depends on the circumstances though
[01:47:31] <pfred1> Jymmm I mean if a place goes out of business and things have to go etc.
[01:48:00] <pfred1> Jymmm a buddy of mine picked up a lathe for $200 with like an 8 foot bed
[01:48:23] <ds3> pfred1: bigger lathes then that had been available for the hauling
[01:48:23] <pfred1> and it wasn't all shot to hell either
[01:48:43] <pfred1> ds3 yup usually the really big stuff no one wants
[01:48:59] <pfred1> ds3 grandpa can't figure out how to drag it down his celler stairs!
[01:49:29] <ds3> pfred1: I think it is more like, he's got to raise the house by another 10ft for it to stay in the celler :D
[01:49:37] <pfred1> trick is to hook up with a flat bedcompany they'll haul heavy machinery for you in their slack time
[01:50:27] <pfred1> ds3 well you know what I mean anything that two guys can't carry down stairs lots pass up
[01:50:40] <ds3> you are missing my point
[01:50:54] <ds3> it ain't the stairs, it just plain won't fit even if you teleport it in there
[01:51:08] <ds3> from the descriptions I read... some of those were as big as the bed of a semi
[01:51:12] <pfred1> ds3 oh people pass on far smaller equipment than that
[01:51:51] <ds3> i.e. something big enough you can chuck a prius in there ;)
[01:52:12] <pfred1> there's lathes with elevators in them
[01:52:35] <pfred1> but I don't think anyone resells those
[01:52:49] <ds3> wouldn't those count as perm. fixtures for the property?
[01:53:08] <pfred1> no you could get a crew to wreck it on site
[01:53:25] <pfred1> but it'd be trucked away as scrap
[01:54:03] <pfred1> I worked at a place we made live centerers 5 feet tall
[01:54:20] <pfred1> I heard they were mainly for the paper industry
[01:54:34] <pfred1> some rolls of paper are pretty large
[01:54:47] <ds3> which meaning of live center are you using? a center that goes in the headstock or a center on the tail stock with bearings on it for spinning?
[01:55:03] <pfred1> yeah a tailstock center
[01:55:15] <pfred1> but they were just big
[01:55:42] <pfred1> we could make them but we didn't have any machines that could use one
[01:57:47] <BlackMoon> what kinda MT taper do you put on a 5' live center? :P
[01:58:14] <pfred1> BlackMoon I was just thinking that it wasn't my department I only saw them around the shop
[01:58:40] <pfred1> BlackMoon they looked just like a regular center you could fit in the palm of your hand only 5 feet tall
[01:58:53] <BlackMoon> like a rod attached?
[01:59:01] <pfred1> rod?
[01:59:13] <pfred1> no they were just scaled up
[01:59:16] <BlackMoon> oh
[01:59:23] <pfred1> these things weighed like a half a ton
[01:59:27] <BlackMoon> lol
[01:59:30] <pfred1> literally
[01:59:48] <pfred1> they were you know like a foot or so in diameter
[02:00:18] <pfred1> I'll see if i can find one online
[02:00:29] <pfred1> I know we had a brouchure wiht someone standing next to one
[02:01:25] <pfred1> here's what i used to make: http://www.rochestermachinerysuppliers.com/content/images/PC270077.JPG
[02:01:32] <pfred1> fluid motion wheel dressers
[02:01:44] <pfred1> that BTW is a really nice one
[02:01:58] <pfred1> that puppy would set you back close to 10 grand new
[02:05:28] <pfred1> company is dead now I doubt they make anything anymore
[02:05:48] <pfred1> I know even when i was there they'd rebrand imported stuff and sell it sometimes
[02:06:54] <BlackMoon> Well no wonder they went outta business, charging 10 grand for that. :P
[02:07:17] <pfred1> BlackMoon yeah you could get imported ones for a lot cheaper
[02:07:52] <pfred1> BlackMoon new they were accurate to .0001 of an inch and when I rebuilt them they had to exceed .0005
[02:08:10] <BlackMoon> wow thats pertty tight.
[02:08:22] <BlackMoon> whats that crank on the right for?
[02:08:27] <pfred1> BlackMoon they are instruments
[02:08:42] <pfred1> BlackMoon when you moved it back and forth the head would swing
[02:08:49] <pfred1> it is to dress a grinding wheel
[02:08:57] <BlackMoon> yea I understand its function
[02:09:02] <BlackMoon> just wondering about that perticular crank
[02:09:09] <cradek> that's a nice video of that Leadwell VMC
[02:09:10] <pfred1> depsnging on how you set it up you could make a wheel with any radius angle or combination
[02:09:10] <BlackMoon> Z for the dresser point?
[02:09:48] <BlackMoon> yea, concave/convex dressing for a wheel. I get it
[02:09:53] <BlackMoon> for surface grinders
[02:10:10] <BlackMoon> uber accurate ground radiuses in hardened steel ftw.
[02:10:22] <pfred1> well for special grinding applications
[02:10:36] <pfred1> for regular surface grinding all you need is a flat dressed wheel
[02:10:54] <BlackMoon> yea, I meant grinding radiuses INTO the hardened steel
[02:10:59] <BlackMoon> or whatever.
[02:11:06] <pfred1> honestly i never used one i just put a carbide ball in it and ran an indicator on it
[02:11:19] <BlackMoon> lol
[02:11:37] <pfred1> well that was part of the rebuild to test it out
[02:11:46] <BlackMoon> still, overpriced at 10k IMO. so much shit is overpriced in the industral sector
[02:12:03] <pfred1> I'd take the whole thing apart clean it all resurface it all throw some new parts on it put it back together and spec it again
[02:12:04] <BlackMoon> 1k would be a good price for that kinda precision.
[02:12:19] <pfred1> BlackMoon I think we charged that to rebuild one
[02:12:19] <BlackMoon> with $100 being some cheap ass chinese imitation that holds 0.001"~
[02:12:31] <pfred1> BlackMoon you have to make every one of those parts
[02:12:45] <pfred1> BlackMoon the graduated base was such a pain to make
[02:12:54] <pfred1> just that one part was so many operations
[02:13:10] <BlackMoon> then you did'nt have the correct equipment ;)
[02:13:11] <frysteev> hey
[02:13:30] <frysteev> has anyone used a joystick for manual emc control?
[02:13:32] <pfred1> cut it lathe it mill it graduates it number it oh it was unreal we'd get like maybe 1 in 20 good
[02:13:42] <BlackMoon> 1 in 20?? gez.
[02:13:57] <pfred1> BlackMoon from start of run to finish sure
[02:14:15] <pfred1> BlackMoon you get 100 operations exactly right on a part
[02:14:28] <pfred1> screw one up its done
[02:15:05] <BlackMoon> I mean id ignorantly suggest CNC but that's just my ignorance talking of course.
[02:15:15] <BlackMoon> I know theres a lot more at play.
[02:15:33] <pfred1> each one of those operations is performed by a different machine
[02:15:42] <BlackMoon> even CNC's are not perfict.. just the insert wearing can fubar things.. or work heating.. etc.
[02:16:01] <pfred1> I mean that part starts out as rod stock
[02:16:19] <BlackMoon> But as far as equipment, Maybe a CNC lathe with live tooling and engraving capabilitys would help? :P
[02:16:24] <pfred1> the bandsaw we had would have blown your mind
[02:16:37] <pfred1> for part of it we used a CNC lathe
[02:16:44] <BlackMoon> though I guess thats all laser engraved or something?
[02:16:58] <pfred1> no we used a mechanical graduater
[02:17:11] <pfred1> then a stamping machine to number it
[02:17:13] <BlackMoon> ?
[02:17:28] <BlackMoon> whats a mechanical graduater?
[02:17:44] <pfred1> you'd set the part in this machine and it'd index it and scratch the graduations on it
[02:17:50] <pfred1> a graduating machine
[02:18:05] <pfred1> it sort of reminded me of a clock
[02:18:07] <pfred1> because it'd tick
[02:18:12] <BlackMoon> hehe
[02:18:27] <BlackMoon> Kinda seems like an excessive number of operations, especialy if things are going wrong beween them
[02:18:28] <pfred1> oh it was a bitch if you didn't have the piece in there exactly right we lost a lot graduating
[02:19:08] <pfred1> then yo uhad to have the numbers stamped where the graduations were it wasn't easy
[02:19:20] <BlackMoon> Like what would be so wrong doing it on a CNC mill with rotary table and spring loaded engraving tool? or carbide peramid point
[02:19:47] <BlackMoon> for doing graduations and numbering
[02:19:52] <pfred1> they'd been doing it the way they'd been doing it for over 60 years?
[02:20:02] <BlackMoon> Ahh that was the problem.
[02:20:03] <BlackMoon> :)
[02:20:03] <pfred1> you'd still have to set it in the jig right
[02:20:12] <BlackMoon> Yea, but you'd have a few less jigs :)
[02:20:22] <pfred1> and once you did that the graduator did a nicer job
[02:20:34] <toastydeath> the difference between an automatic machine that is set up and a cnc that is set up is very small
[02:20:38] <BlackMoon> well what made the graduator better?
[02:20:38] <toastydeath> especially for operations like this
[02:20:48] <toastydeath> graduaters use drag diamond tooling, usually.
[02:20:50] <ds3> sounds like something a mill and 4th axis could do
[02:20:52] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: well for one operation sure
[02:20:56] <pfred1> BlackMoon it engraved
[02:21:09] <BlackMoon> but when you have a second operation to proform on the exact same setup but needs a diffrent machine?
[02:21:22] <pfred1> was just this tool that'd scratch it in there it does a beautiful job
[02:21:26] <pfred1> like ruler graduations
[02:21:42] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: well you can do drag diamond tooling in a mill too
[02:21:53] <toastydeath> BlackMoon, no, most real graders are shapers
[02:22:00] <toastydeath> non-rotating tool
[02:22:11] <BlackMoon> yea and you don't need to rotate the tool in a mill
[02:22:14] <pfred1> toastydeath well thats what this one did but it rotated too
[02:22:15] <toastydeath> it's like you take your finger, tap it on the desk, and drag it off
[02:22:20] <pfred1> it was like a tiny shaper
[02:22:24] <BlackMoon> spring loaded tool
[02:22:30] <BlackMoon> and you just yaknow. don't turn on the mill spindle
[02:22:42] <BlackMoon> and its gonna have enough friction in the spindle bearings to prevent some little diamond from rotating it
[02:22:44] <toastydeath> very few things need the accuracy of a grader
[02:23:10] <toastydeath> i would personally do it in a cnc, but i don't know if there's some reason they wanted to keep it on the manual machine other than "that's the way we did it"
[02:23:12] <BlackMoon> yea like what exactly makes the grader better then a rotary table of equivilent cost?
[02:23:17] <pfred1> BlackMoon the thing is yeah OK its overpriced but for that price you know it is perfect
[02:23:30] <toastydeath> BlackMoon, a good grader can produce a diffraction grating
[02:23:32] <toastydeath> a mill cannot
[02:23:32] <pfred1> BlackMoon it'd take you years ot make one on your own
[02:23:34] <BlackMoon> pfred1: unfortualy thats not true.
[02:23:50] <pfred1> BlackMoon lok I was there I'm telling you it is
[02:23:51] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: actualy iv seen a guy who recently produced a diffraction grating on his mill using diamond drag tooling
[02:24:03] <toastydeath> BlackMoon, there's making something that looks like a diffraction grating
[02:24:07] <pfred1> BlackMoon if it came out messed up we'd can it right then and there
[02:24:10] <toastydeath> and then there's a diffraction grading for spectroscopy
[02:24:21] <BlackMoon> pfred1: yea but I mean cost itself does not guarentee anything
[02:24:30] <toastydeath> *grating
[02:24:33] <pfred1> BlackMoon well that is what you were paying for
[02:24:40] <BlackMoon> I once bought a grinder that was way more expensive then compairable models and turned out to be a compleat and utter peice of shit.
[02:24:46] <pfred1> a tool as accurate as a micrometer
[02:25:34] <BlackMoon> just because something is priced expensively does not mean its worth that much, no insult to your tool just trying to point something out :)
[02:25:52] <pfred1> BlackMoon you're not going to point anything outto me
[02:25:53] <BlackMoon> sometimes things are overpriced to make them seem higher quality too, that REALLY pisses me off.
[02:25:54] <toastydeath> BlackMoon, and just because something is CNC does not mean it is more accurate than the manual tool.
[02:26:03] <toastydeath> this is a fallacy i see very often in #emc
[02:26:12] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: of course not, it needs to be built to the same or better accuracy as the manual tool
[02:26:18] <BlackMoon> especialy if nobody is there to compensate for its wear
[02:26:23] <pfred1> toastydeath pfft the only thing that stands any chance of being accurate is grinding
[02:26:31] <toastydeath> pfred1, negative
[02:26:48] <pfred1> whatever I'm not going to argue this
[02:26:48] <toastydeath> there are lots of single point operations that are just as accurate as any grinding operation in form
[02:28:08] <pfred1> we'd get stuff to .003 on mills or lathes and finish them on grinders
[02:28:36] <pfred1> because once you heat treat stuff god knows what it's goingto come back as
[02:28:40] <toastydeath> right.
[02:28:58] <pfred1> so why bother making it any better? then you have to grind it anyways
[02:29:00] <BlackMoon> Im gonna buy some CBN/cermet inserts some day
[02:29:04] <toastydeath> that doesn't bear on the fact there are mills and lathes that are just as accurate as grinders.
[02:29:08] <BlackMoon> Then i'll show that hardened steel who is boss...
[02:30:37] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZuBZPop2NU
[02:30:39] <toastydeath> here is one such lathe.
[02:30:40] <pfred1> BlackMoon if we had to work hardened steel we'd either aneal it or grind it or EDM it
[02:31:02] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: epic.
[02:31:20] <BlackMoon> doesent even look to be touching the surface.
[02:31:25] <BlackMoon> LOL at bumped part
[02:31:58] <toastydeath> keep in mind it's placing the tool to a couple millionths of an inch when it's doing those bumps.
[02:33:04] <BlackMoon> Single point grinding ftw.
[02:33:12] <BlackMoon> Assuming you have a few years.
[02:33:31] <toastydeath> yeh, most of those parts take 6-8 hrs
[02:34:00] <pfred1> BlackMoon I bet they're not giving them away when they're done wit hthem either
[02:34:10] <BlackMoon> lol
[02:34:21] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sntM0wB-xGw
[02:34:34] <BlackMoon> well yea theres allways costs involved
[02:34:41] <toastydeath> the company i left this past December makes the bearings that go in that DAC lathe
[02:34:48] <BlackMoon> just my though was 1 in 20 making it outta the shop = something seriously wrong.
[02:35:07] <BlackMoon> anyway.
[02:35:13] <BlackMoon> what do I know.
[02:35:15] <pfred1> BlackMoon yeah we were making lots of them
[02:36:30] <pfred1> BlackMoon you lose lots of parts setting operations up you know?
[02:36:52] <BlackMoon> no, I lose a lot of time setting operations up. im a hobbyest.
[02:37:02] <BlackMoon> a LOT of time....
[02:37:11] <BlackMoon> weeks sometimes! At least thats my excuse.
[02:37:31] <pfred1> BlackMoon well when you have 1,000 parts sitting there tossing a half a dozen dialing a setup in isn't a big deal you know?
[02:37:31] <BlackMoon> sure doesnt take me weeks to machine it so it must be taking me weeks to do something...
[02:37:51] <toastydeath> even for simple parts setup takes ~4 hrs
[02:38:02] <BlackMoon> pfred1: Except when its at every stage your tossing out parts.. Not many make it out!
[02:38:05] <toastydeath> when you figure finding all the shit you need and getting your tools together, taking old tools out and putting new ones in, whatever
[02:38:15] <pfred1> BlackMoon yuppers thats how it works
[02:38:40] <toastydeath> slow down and make test passes
[02:38:43] <pfred1> the boss wants to see full bins and he don't care how they get filled up
[02:38:53] <BlackMoon> hahaha
[02:38:56] <toastydeath> I dial the machine out a distance, watch it run, and then bump it in
[02:38:56] <ds3> got concrete? ;)
[02:39:12] <toastydeath> cuts way down on scrap if what you're looking for is good parts and don't have many to scrap
[02:39:15] <BlackMoon> what does he say when the only bin thats full is the scrap bin? :P
[02:39:37] <pfred1> BlackMoon thats going to get filled up anyways
[02:39:48] <toastydeath> lol
[02:39:49] <BlackMoon> or did you just forget to label what ones scrap and what one is good parts and never told him?
[02:39:52] <pfred1> BlackMoon we'd fill a 40 yarder with scrap every week
[02:40:04] <BlackMoon> I know
[02:40:07] <pfred1> no we has 20 gallon ash cans all over the shop
[02:40:18] <BlackMoon> I can make nothing in my shop and still throw out a 5 gallon bucket of garbage every week or two
[02:40:22] <BlackMoon> I have no idea where it comes from
[02:40:29] <pfred1> you have to realize in order to work you had to shovel out a spot for yourself right?
[02:40:49] <pfred1> I mean in a sop you really make chips!
[02:40:54] <pfred1> shop even
[02:40:55] <BlackMoon> 'all I made all week was a cup coaster and I have 5 gallons of garbage, Real shops must produce TONS of garbage!'
[02:41:19] <pfred1> oh yeah on a good day i was good for maybe 3 20 gallon barrels or so of swarf
[02:41:35] <ds3> prehaps you should start with more appropriate size stock ;)
[02:41:39] <BlackMoon> lol
[02:41:53] <pfred1> ds3 perhaps I was making runs of 10,000 pieces?
[02:41:56] <BlackMoon> I have to turn some 1 5/8" threads onto some 3" HRS barstock
[02:42:02] <BlackMoon> got most of the turning done...
[02:42:12] <BlackMoon> thankfuly I got the feeds right to make nice thick C/9 chips
[02:42:27] <ds3> pfred1: same applies... you get way less chips if you used say a casting to start with
[02:42:31] <BlackMoon> love a nice carbide insert with a light lead angle
[02:42:40] <toastydeath> i'd hate trying to load 10k castings into a machine
[02:42:50] <pfred1> ds3 we made everything out of billet except for a few pieces
[02:42:58] <toastydeath> i'd rather pay the couple extra cents and lose some material to chips and walk away from the lathe
[02:43:02] <toastydeath> than have someone sit there
[02:43:06] <pfred1> ds3 we sawed steel like it was pine
[02:43:16] <ds3> toastydeath: you must have a bar puller?
[02:43:27] <toastydeath> ds3, my favorite machine had a bar feeder
[02:43:45] <pfred1> ds3 our horizontal bandsaw blew my mind how it went through stock
[02:43:48] <toastydeath> for some reason i was the only one who used it, but i used it for everything i could
[02:44:15] <pfred1> toastydeath oh yeah the bandsaw had a hydraulic feeder
[02:44:25] <pfred1> big assed roller table
[02:44:27] <ds3> toastydeath: have you ever started the chuck with it unclamped with a 12ft stock ?
[02:44:38] <toastydeath> ds3, unfortunately.
[02:44:53] <ds3> that's the part I don't like about autochucks or stock feeders
[02:45:05] <pfred1> toastydeath the feeder on that saw was accurate to .002 of an inch or better too!
[02:45:15] <toastydeath> i had relatively few problems with the machine end, though - i only had a few screw ups on my part
[02:45:22] <toastydeath> most of my problems were from the pusher itself
[02:45:28] <toastydeath> and the prox switches
[02:45:37] <toastydeath> pfred1, ours was not that nice =(
[02:45:47] <toastydeath> we were lucky to be able to get +/- .030
[02:45:48] <pfred1> toastydeath it was a war purchace from the nazis
[02:45:53] <ds3> I'll settle for an ATC on my machine!
[02:45:54] <pfred1> toastydeath totally mechanical
[02:46:00] <toastydeath> dang
[02:46:16] <toastydeath> ours was a DoAll hydraulic auto
[02:46:20] <pfred1> toastydeath it was probably making 88s before we got it
[02:46:21] <toastydeath> lots of grunt, no accuracy
[02:46:50] <pfred1> toastydeath I'd clamp 4 2x4 bar stocks together on the roller table and it'd just gobble them up!
[02:46:53] <toastydeath> haha
[02:47:19] <pfred1> toastydeath I couldn't even come close to deburring while it was sawing away
[02:47:46] <toastydeath> yeah
[02:47:47] <pfred1> it'd just make a pile of blocks on the floor while i was at the belt sander
[02:48:03] <toastydeath> i never deburred stuff off the saw, i just crushed it in either the vise or the chuck
[02:48:25] <toastydeath> or if it was real important before it went in the machine
[02:48:33] <pfred1> that saw was like 9 TPI it's really burr stock
[02:48:41] <BlackMoon> lol
[02:48:47] <toastydeath> yeah, i used a 2 for everything
[02:48:56] <toastydeath> the burrs are big but the vise is bigger
[02:48:58] <pfred1> when i say it sawed steel like it was pine i mean it really sawed steel like it was pine
[02:49:18] <BlackMoon> belt sanders are awsome for deburring
[02:49:21] <toastydeath> and i don't want to stand around taking the edge off 400 little bars that are going to get milled up anyway
[02:49:27] <BlackMoon> also, those mini belt sanders, the 'hand file' size
[02:49:39] <BlackMoon> I got a 13"x3/8", deburrs everything real quick
[02:49:40] <pfred1> BlackMoon yeah especially when it is an 10 foot tall vertical one
[02:49:55] <BlackMoon> pfred1: hah.
[02:50:04] <pfred1> BlackMoon I broke the belt on it once i almost had a heart attack!
[02:50:05] <BlackMoon> pfred1: try the smaller ones sometimes :)
[02:50:14] <BlackMoon> Good for those large chunks of metal
[02:50:21] <pfred1> BlackMoon that belt came out at me like it was an anaconda or something
[02:50:21] <BlackMoon> and tighter recesses
[02:50:36] <BlackMoon> like I can actualy deburr the inside of square tubing with mine
[02:51:01] <pfred1> we'd use die grinders for stuff like that
[02:51:10] <BlackMoon> though, a carbide cone in a die grinder does a good job too
[02:51:11] <BlackMoon> yea
[02:51:36] <pfred1> a big part of what i did was making these hold down clamps and they were very blocky
[02:51:50] <toastydeath> my deburring tool was a vietnamese lady named Lien who would always try to deburr things no matter how small the burr was
[02:51:57] <BlackMoon> lol
[02:52:08] <toastydeath> "no lien, these do not need deburring"
[02:52:11] <toastydeath> "I DEBURR"
[02:52:14] <toastydeath> "no lien!"
[02:52:15] <toastydeath> "DEBURR"
[02:52:21] <toastydeath> "NO GODDAMNIT"
[02:52:23] <pfred1> she was right
[02:52:25] <toastydeath> i will miss lien most of all
[02:52:25] <ds3> any parts smaller then the burr?
[02:52:31] <toastydeath> she was hilarious
[02:52:36] <BlackMoon> you paid her by the burr did'nt you?
[02:52:42] <toastydeath> no, she got paid hourly
[02:52:58] <BlackMoon> same diff.
[02:52:58] <BlackMoon> :P
[02:53:02] <pfred1> you don't deburr you're just measuring burr
[02:53:16] <toastydeath> pfred1, you don't measure raw bar stock
[02:53:32] <BlackMoon> pfred1: unless you use the little notchs in your calipers to step over the burr
[02:53:50] <BlackMoon> or micrometers, etc
[02:54:04] <pfred1> BlackMoon I'd love to see you run the boach
[02:54:16] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: Sure you do, if you wanna be disappointed.
[02:54:23] <pfred1> BlackMoon or should i say run from the broach!
[02:54:43] <BlackMoon> why?
[02:55:04] <pfred1> BlackMoon because if you had the part so much as a thousandth sticking out it didn't like that!
[02:55:22] <pfred1> BlackMoon and it'd throw the work at you which was invariably a large chunk of steel
[02:55:35] <toastydeath> BlackMoon, no, you cut it right the first time
[02:55:44] <toastydeath> i worked in an air bearing shop
[02:55:46] <pfred1> BlackMoon and our broach could shoot a piece of work clear across the whole shop
[02:55:50] <toastydeath> it's not like i don't know what i'm doing
[02:55:55] <BlackMoon> pfred1: sounds very.. dangerious.
[02:56:11] <BlackMoon> toastydeath: I meant stock diamiters
[02:56:17] <toastydeath> oh
[02:56:23] <pfred1> BlackMoon it has 12" hydraulic rams 20 feet long!
[02:56:24] <toastydeath> those don't have burrs, i am talking about the cut ends of stuff
[02:56:24] <BlackMoon> HRS/CRS is not very accurate.
[02:56:33] <toastydeath> is the kind of shit she'd try to deburr
[02:56:39] <BlackMoon> lol
[02:56:48] <toastydeath> why deburr something when you're about to lop that end off anyway in a machine
[02:57:16] <renesis> because you need to have a clean burr free shop
[02:57:21] <BlackMoon> but yea
[02:57:29] <renesis> heh lien
[02:57:47] <BlackMoon> iv seen people have problems doing stuff like measureing wall thickness of pipe due to the burr
[02:57:57] <BlackMoon> they don't know to insert the caliper all the way so the notch steps over the burr.
[02:58:21] <pfred1> BlackMoon why not just deburr it you're going to have to eventually anyways
[02:58:26] <toastydeath> in that case it's acceptable to hit the thing with a die grinder
[02:58:29] <renesis> ill usually just file or knife off where im going to measure
[02:58:32] <toastydeath> if you're going to measure it, make it clean
[02:58:44] <renesis> saw cut burrs are nasty those notches usually arent that deep
[02:58:45] <BlackMoon> because this was in a metal shop
[02:58:53] <BlackMoon> where nobody deburred anything, just sawed and sold
[02:59:36] <BlackMoon> renesis: bandsaws iv seen don't burr to badly if not run agressively
[02:59:51] <BlackMoon> abrasive saws sure will
[03:00:29] <ds3> ask for a ECO that stays "Dimensions are inclusive of burr at MMC" ;)
[03:00:42] <BlackMoon> lol
[03:00:55] <renesis> fuck gd&t
[03:00:57] <renesis> =(
[03:01:25] <BlackMoon> well you just don't need to deburr everything is what im saying, even if your gonna measure it
[03:01:29] <ds3> got to use GD&T to your advantage !
[03:01:31] <BlackMoon> you just have to be aware not to measure the burr
[03:01:44] <renesis> ds3: it sucks calculating when they start stacking up!
[03:01:56] <ds3> renesis: *nod*
[03:02:20] <renesis> but yeah irl i usually just see one or two callouts
[03:02:25] <ds3> get the drawing worded so all your parts pass
[03:02:32] <renesis> and lots of times its vs diff datums, so its not a big deal
[03:03:26] <renesis> but fuck that class its like, wtf how did adding and subtracting become so difficult
[03:03:28] <ds3> all in all, I'd say....GD&T or ANY tolerancing is good... have to deal with folks who do not tolerance their drawings
[03:03:45] <renesis> exjob would do stuff like that
[03:04:13] <ds3> i am not a fan of, let's keep remaking parts til they fit
[03:04:18] <renesis> also they would try to order capacitor values out to the random 3rd decimal place
[03:04:26] <renesis> yeah
[03:04:46] <pfred1> something with the gimp really jacks up my jitter
[03:04:48] <ds3> but then I was also dealing with a laser cutting shop that insist on using the centerlines of my drawings as the cutting lines, i.e. not offsetting by the kerf of their laser
[03:04:56] <clytle374> A yaskawa sgm servo motor with the A !A, B !B, C !C is a rs422 differential signal, right?
[03:04:57] <renesis> pfred1: interesting
[03:05:04] <renesis> * renesis goes to try
[03:05:13] <pfred1> renesis its really good until just before gimp completely loads
[03:05:23] <clytle374> Should work directly with a mesa card, right?
[03:05:28] <pfred1> then it goes through the roof!
[03:05:29] <skunkworks> flashing light through classic ladder - next THE WORLD!
[03:05:48] <pfred1> 292734
[03:06:15] <pfred1> * pfred1 knows how to abuse a Linux computer ;)
[03:06:33] <Valen> pfred no joke ;-P
[03:07:08] <clytle374> Maybe I should study abacus use and manual machining.
[03:07:46] <pfred1> Valen years of practice
[03:08:28] <pfred1> really without the gimp running I get under 7000
[03:08:28] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/pent4-26ghz1.png
[03:09:18] <pfred1> ah it just shot up without the gimp to 315651 this is not goo
[03:09:35] <pfred1> may have to try another video card or something here
[03:10:51] <renesis> pfred1: yeah it bumped up on my thing but didnt get to the max ive seen on it
[03:11:27] <pfred1> renesis glxgears is eating like 85% of my CPU
[03:11:31] <renesis> heh it pops out fractals and does art filters without affecting jitter much
[03:11:45] <renesis> o
[03:12:07] <pfred1> load average of 3.24
[03:14:47] <pfred1> yeah there is some sort of a glitch with my system that spikes my jitter
[03:15:07] <Valen> opening an opengl window does it to me
[03:17:16] <pfred1> I'm just getting these really bad spikes
[03:17:24] <Valen> how often?
[03:17:47] <Valen> also do you have a multi processor machine or have hyper threading on if its single core?
[03:17:49] <pfred1> it is pretty regular about every 2 or 3 minutes?
[03:18:03] <pfred1> it is single don't know about hyper
[03:18:08] <skunkworks> every 90 seconds or so might be smi..
[03:18:08] <pfred1> how would I check?
[03:18:12] <Valen> there is a known issue with some motherboards that causes a latency spike
[03:18:19] <pfred1> skunkworks what is smi?
[03:18:21] <Valen> yeah thats it skunkworks
[03:18:45] <pfred1> skunkworks 90 seconds sounds about right i mean its great then bang
[03:19:27] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[03:20:42] <pfred1> about every 50 seconds
[03:21:07] <pfred1> skunkworks bookmarked thanks
[03:25:24] <pfred1> OK if this is so dangerious should i load it all the time or just when I am doing CNC with the machine?
[03:27:18] <skunkworks> I have used it with no ill effects :)
[03:27:21] <skunkworks> ymmv
[03:27:40] <pfred1> skunkworks yeah it doesn't sound like the end of the world to me
[03:35:13] <Valen> I'd suggest running lmsensors or something and keeping an eye on it for a while see how it works
[03:35:23] <Valen> or get one of the atom mbo's ;->
[03:37:48] <pfred1> Valen if it blows up I'll try my hand at something else i guess
[03:38:39] <pfred1> so how come i can't just modprobe in the module?
[03:40:29] <pfred1> well lets see if this junk works
[03:44:31] <pfred1> none of the rtai modules load is there something I am missing here?
[03:46:26] <pfred1> that, and I don't have a rtapi.conf.in file at all
[03:46:40] <pfred1> so I skipped all of that being as I didn't have one
[03:50:20] <pfred1> skunkworks 13186 so far with no hiccups!
[03:52:42] <skunkworks> great. Did you sudo lspci -v and see if you had the chipset?
[03:53:11] <pfred1> skunkworks no but it seems to have did the trick let me tell you!
[03:53:25] <skunkworks> nice
[03:53:26] <pfred1> its steady like a rock now you da man!
[03:53:47] <pfred1> I'd have never found that crap
[03:54:12] <skunkworks> heh - even a broken clock is right twice a day ;)
[03:54:43] <pfred1> starting glxgears didn't evne make it flinch
[03:55:21] <pfred1> skunkworks I've been thinking about that saying a lot lately what if the clock ran erratically?
[03:56:03] <skunkworks> ;)
[03:56:15] <pfred1> so is 13186 OK?
[03:56:30] <skunkworks> that is decent
[03:56:38] <pfred1> cool!
[03:56:53] <pfred1> yeah I don't think my machine is going to set any land speed records anyways
[03:57:39] <pfred1> I htink if it does 10 ipm I'll be thrilled with it
[03:58:27] <pfred1> now I want to test out the port buffer I am making and get the computer to just run the stepper on my worktable
[03:58:44] <pfred1> when i see that I'll start seeing all of this coming together someday
[03:59:34] <pfred1> then it'll all just be sweat and i know how to sweat
[04:00:10] <skunkworks> I would think you could run 25-30k pulse rate conservitivly.
[04:00:53] <pfred1> skunkworks did you see my homemade motor driver i made?
[04:01:04] <skunkworks> no
[04:01:10] <pfred1> http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6498/stepproto1.jpg
[04:01:32] <pfred1> look out gecko!
[04:01:35] <pfred1> heh
[04:01:45] <skunkworks> neat!
[04:02:13] <pfred1> skunkworks you only say that because you haven't seen the bottom of it yet: http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6572/stepproto1b.jpg
[04:02:38] <skunkworks> that works
[04:02:43] <pfred1> it does
[04:02:55] <pfred1> I've spun it up to 2500 RPM
[04:03:02] <pfred1> it has no torque there but it's done it
[04:03:18] <pfred1> it pulls out at like 220 RPM
[04:04:48] <skunkworks> sounds good
[04:04:52] <pfred1> I just reset the jitter and its 6057 / 5977
[04:05:07] <skunkworks> run it for a good hour or more.
[04:05:20] <pfred1> and glxgears is going too
[04:06:15] <pfred1> the motherboard in this system is an HP vectra VL400
[04:06:38] <pfred1> 1 Ghz Pentium 3 wiht 512Mb RAm
[04:07:07] <pfred1> all dumpster dove stuff
[04:08:12] <pfred1> its too bad this latency test doesn't like chart the results or something
[04:30:01] <pfred1> OK so does anyone know what these numbers all mean in this latency test? I think I figured out that the lower the jitter is the better but how about say the first number max Interval ?
[05:22:48] <jmkasunich> pardon me while I spam the channel: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/grayhill.html
[05:31:53] <BlackMoon> Cool modules.
[05:32:48] <BlackMoon> Im totaly new here but I never mind totaly ontop spam when its rock bottom low prices on cool stuff. (assuming its not excessively repeated)
[05:33:08] <BlackMoon> (from someone who hangs out and doesn't just driveby spam anyway.)
[05:33:33] <jmkasunich> heh - I'm going to post that link exactly once here
[05:33:52] <jmkasunich> also posted it on cnc-zone, in a forum specifically listed for advertising
[05:34:52] <BlackMoon> Im sure they will go fast :)
[05:35:19] <jmkasunich> hope so, I'm gonna want my dining room table back
[05:35:26] <BlackMoon> lol
[05:35:56] <BlackMoon> Yea I have a table with a bunch of D1-6 backplates I still need to sell off in the basement -_-;
[06:00:33] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: You actually OWN a dining room table?
[06:01:06] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Or is it a workbench you USE as a dining table?
[06:14:57] <jmkasunich> it's a real table
[06:15:08] <jmkasunich> I got it from craigslist ;-)
[06:19:46] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: LOL, very good =) You gotta love CL (sometimes)
[06:20:33] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I got a $200 keyer (ham radio) for $50 of of CL
[06:20:50] <jmkasunich> really a very nice table, especially for $125 (including the chairs) http://jmkasunich.com/pics/craigslist-table-3514.jpg
[06:21:18] <Jymmm> nice
[06:21:24] <Jymmm> cool dog
[06:21:29] <jmkasunich> yep
[06:21:36] <jmkasunich> he's chillin'
[06:21:54] <jmkasunich> and it's time for me to be sleepin'
[06:21:57] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[06:22:04] <Jymmm> G'night =)
[06:22:44] <Valen> come with the dog?
[06:23:20] <jmkasunich> dog costs extra
[06:23:25] <Jymmm> Buy a dining room table, get a free dog
[06:25:08] <Jymmm> But, what about the green squeaky toy?
[07:00:22] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[07:58:58] <MrSunshine> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rZ2FPuO5iM&feature=related in that how the heck does it release and grab hold of the tool ?
[08:04:37] <archivist> you can hear the pnuematic cylinder when he picks up
[08:07:57] <archivist> note the pressure is released to grip, which means he uses a spring to provide grip force as many do and the pneumatic cylinder overcomes the spring to release
[08:08:50] <MrSunshine> archivist, but how is it stuck on there ?
[08:08:54] <MrSunshine> just friction ?
[08:09:32] <BlackMoon> man that things collumn is tiny
[08:10:04] <archivist> BlackMoon, and he has moved the head away from the column
[08:10:17] <BlackMoon> I thought it looked modifyed
[08:10:41] <BlackMoon> Is that like, extreme turd polishing? :)
[08:10:53] <archivist> dunno if he realises his chatter is designed in :)
[08:11:10] <archivist> one hopes he is learning
[08:11:14] <BlackMoon> Yea
[08:11:19] <BlackMoon> the rapids are lol.
[08:11:24] <BlackMoon> you could manualy toolchange faster
[08:12:22] <e|m|blyton> Can I think it is possible to compile a fake RTAI with acpi support - i.e. to make it safe to install it to laptop?
[08:12:23] <archivist> he knows his toolchanger position then takes the head to full height
[08:13:54] <archivist> e|m|blyton, run the latency check to see if the laptop is usable, but more important how are you going to connect to hardware
[08:15:01] <e|m|blyton> archivist: residents of this chat know me. latency test fails and I think I'm risking to overheat, for example, RAM modules in my laptop
[08:15:23] <e|m|blyton> I asked about it eralier.
[08:16:03] <archivist> its the cpu that is shutting down not ram
[08:16:54] <e|m|blyton> archivist: no, I had to repair RAM (by the guarantee from the manufacturer)
[08:17:09] <archivist> add fans, to the case or whatever is needed to keep it cool
[08:17:34] <e|m|blyton> Whole motherboad is being heated on RTAI. CPU is capable to be cooled down, but various chipsets...
[08:17:35] <archivist> basicly laptops are not suitable
[08:19:26] <e|m|blyton> archivist: I would have to remove the plastic from the bottom part of the laptop. It would be easier to buy some old Ppentium III with monitor, for about 100 USD and buy some RAM modules to get about 768 MB of RAM.
[08:19:37] <e|m|blyton> they don't.
[08:19:58] <archivist> I use old throw away computers
[08:20:22] <e|m|blyton> every chipset on the motherboad should have a radiator, for a start, since your computer runs system with RTAI
[08:20:53] <e|m|blyton> archivist: yeah, yeah... Installing to the laptop was so stupid!
[08:23:32] <e|m|blyton> May I add this pretty straightfoward opinion to wiki?
[08:30:51] <e|m|blyton> I actually still don't understand. "RTAI can make this monster (my laptop) work (produce timings and signals). But it immediately overheats and stops to work. And any "loosened" RTAI settings let him to fail the Latency Test, because it starts to work as a laptop (it starts idling for more with "soft" RTAI settings to stay cool).
[08:31:00] <e|m|blyton> Seems right
[08:32:31] <Valen> can you not just run sim only
[08:32:39] <Valen> that should be able to run without rtai no?
[08:33:17] <e|m|blyton> Simulation runs perfectly, off course.
[08:34:01] <e|m|blyton> without RTAI, the system is just usual Ubuntu -- as you and me, my friend.
[08:34:56] <BlackMoon> Well, im glad to know theres reasons not to use a laptop as a CNC controller
[08:39:06] <e|m|blyton> or you will have to add coolers and radiators. = turn laptop to be usual computer
[08:39:23] <numen> does emc2 support a 4th axis?
[08:40:41] <numen> for turning the part
[08:42:19] <e|m|blyton> "turning table" probably
[08:43:37] <numen> e|m|blyton rotating such as a mil i mean
[08:43:42] <numen> not fast...
[08:44:33] <e|m|blyton> turning table to mill wheels for cars
[08:44:52] <e|m|blyton> it rotates precisely, not at hight speed
[08:45:00] <archivist> numen, up to 9 axis so yes
[08:45:24] <numen> ok thx
[08:45:53] <numen> i mean for milling top and botton side^^
[08:45:56] <BlackMoon> 9 axis? lol
[08:46:08] <numen> just have to find out, how to set up my inventorcam for this....
[08:46:16] <BlackMoon> 'And in the 9th axis, we turn space and time inside out to mill the inside of hollow enclosed objects'
[08:47:08] <numen> does anyone use solidcam here?
[08:48:44] <numen> cause i need an post processor for the turning axis
[08:48:58] <archivist> I run a 5 axis and currently no cam in my price range, so I hand code
[08:55:28] <numen> mhm
[08:59:23] <numen> archivist can you show me an pic?
[09:01:26] <archivist> machine http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/djcpd/PD/2009/2009_08_15/102CANON/IMG_0246.JPG
[09:02:02] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/djcpd/PD/2009/2009_08_15/102CANON/IMG_0246.JPG
[09:02:20] <archivist> oops i meant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAtziCsUj5Q
[09:02:57] <archivist> my paths a of a sort you can program the maths for
[09:04:59] <archivist> the machine column got stiffened up and lifted later
[09:08:41] <numen> nice
[11:10:18] <BlackMoon> archivist: cool rig, though I bet you have never been charged with having aesthetics :)
[11:11:23] <BlackMoon> (nevermind me, im jelous, Especialy of your gear gobs below)
[11:13:12] <BlackMoon> err hobs
[12:56:19] <elmo40> MrSunshine: those pics, they from the new casting? Why only support on one side? you may see them flex.
[12:56:25] <DaViruz> i just realized, the latest rtai release is almost 5 years old
[12:56:40] <jthornton> is there a range for the P setting in the INI that makes sense? ie. over this and your nuts...
[12:57:01] <Valen> I wonder how it'll go with all the new schedualer stuff
[12:59:57] <Valen> RTAI 3.8 released
[12:59:57] <Valen> Posted by: admin on 02/16/2010 03:18 PM
[12:59:57] <Valen> The tarball of RTAI 3.8 is available at rtai-3.8.tar.bz2
[13:00:10] <Valen> seems pretty recent to me
[13:05:21] <DaViruz> hmm
[13:05:31] <DaViruz> i followed the link in http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?RtaiSteps
[13:07:49] <DaViruz> i suppose the documentation is outdated then
[13:08:01] <micges_work1> could be
[13:08:03] <DaViruz> someone has to take the blame, and it's not going to be me ;)
[13:08:36] <DaViruz> "On no account use any patches from www.adeos.org "
[13:08:41] <DaViruz> adeos.org seems gone now though..
[14:45:11] <MrSunshine> elmo40, erll flexing up and down i figured wouldnt be such a big problem and its 10mm of alu and its like 4cm out to the supports from the mounting point
[14:45:52] <e|m|blyton> e|m|blyton is now known as Guest4786
[17:38:23] <numen> re
[17:44:01] <numen> does anyone here use solidcam?
[17:47:10] <i_tarzan> none
[17:51:26] <numen_> numen_ is now known as numen
[17:54:34] <cradek> rt
[17:54:36] <cradek> oops
[17:56:17] <SWPadnos> it's OK. nobody noticed
[17:56:19] <SWPadnos> oops
[17:57:11] <numen> ?
[18:00:24] <skunkworks> stupid question - you do you make the section of the ladder longer than 6 blocks?
[18:01:42] <i_tarzan> which ladder?
[18:01:54] <skunkworks> classic ladder - really green at it ;)
[18:03:33] <skunkworks> I made a led flash! ;)
[18:08:53] <skunkworks> I must not know the mnomenclature.. I just have to add more rungs.
[18:10:54] <cradek> each ... ladder? has just a few lines worth of space. you have to edit them individually
[18:11:13] <cradek> when out of the editor, click the one you want to edit next - I think it turns color, then start the editor again
[18:11:21] <cradek> I don't know the terminology either
[18:11:44] <SWPadnos> there are sections, each of which has several rungs
[18:11:50] <cradek> ok
[18:11:57] <cradek> I think he needs to start the next rung
[18:12:06] <cradek> I don't know what the significance of rungs is
[18:12:09] <SWPadnos> I was going to suggest adding rungs, but I don't know how to do it :)
[18:12:37] <SWPadnos> each "line" is a rung, so if you need more lines for a given function, you need more rungs
[18:12:39] <skunkworks> yes - that seems to be it.
[18:12:43] <SWPadnos> (horizontal line)
[18:12:43] <mozmck> SWPadnos: what do I need to get the rotating desktop cube you use?
[18:12:52] <SWPadnos> compiz-settings-manager
[18:12:56] <SWPadnos> or similar
[18:12:58] <skunkworks> I always thought each rung was each electrical connection - not each section. got confused.'
[18:13:00] <mozmck> thanks
[18:13:41] <skunkworks> because when you go to delete a 'section' it says - 'do you want to delete this rung'
[18:14:32] <skunkworks> getting there ;)
[18:14:59] <cradek> I don't know what the significance of different sections is either
[18:15:19] <cradek> maybe it's just like 'sheets' of schematic - purely for your own understanding
[18:15:23] <SWPadnos> I think they're just a way of organizing different functions
[18:15:27] <SWPadnos> I think so
[18:15:47] <SWPadnos> so you don't have to deal with e-stop stuff when you're trying to work on tool changes
[18:15:51] <SWPadnos> or vise-versa
[18:16:03] <cradek> reminds me of "a paragraph should have 5 sentences!" which I recall thinking was stupid in first grade
[18:16:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:16:18] <SWPadnos> introduction, discussion, conclusion
[18:16:28] <SWPadnos> (kind of like read - process - write)
[18:20:14] <aa-danimal-shop> to add rungs, you need to do it in the hal file
[18:21:13] <aa-danimal-shop> loadrt classicladder_rt numbrungs=#
[18:21:28] <aa-danimal-shop> numRungs*
[18:21:44] <aa-danimal-shop> but the default is pretty high i think
[18:21:47] <skunkworks> right - I see that I can have 8 with the current config.
[18:22:34] <skunkworks> each run is finite though? always 6ish blocks (seems small if you want all the tool change logic to fit in one)
[18:22:41] <skunkworks> ?
[18:23:00] <aa-danimal-shop> you see the red bars on either side of the selected rung? you can hit insert in the editor block and it'll insert one right below the selected rung. Or you can hit add, and i think it will add a rung to the end
[18:23:28] <aa-danimal-shop> skunkworks, the size of the rung doesnt matter, you can just continue to the next rung
[18:23:42] <aa-danimal-shop> but yea, it's a fixerd size
[18:23:44] <skunkworks> ah - cool
[18:24:23] <skunkworks> but you cannot connect vertical from one run to the next?
[18:24:32] <skunkworks> I assume
[18:24:47] <skunkworks> (not that it is an issue)
[18:25:02] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, you cant as far as i know, but i never tried it
[18:25:26] <aa-danimal-shop> there's jump coils and call coils, but i think those are just from section to section
[18:26:05] <aa-danimal-shop> i usually just reserve a whole rung for longer circuits
[18:26:40] <aa-danimal-shop> you can usually split it up too by using a %b# coil (internal coil)
[18:27:17] <aa-danimal-shop> or whatever
[18:27:25] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm pretty new to it myself
[18:27:37] <mozmck> SWPadnos: okay, now how do I rotate the cube?
[18:27:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:27:53] <aa-danimal-shop> mozmck, rubic cube?
[18:28:04] <SWPadnos> you have to turn off the flat desktop switcher (I don't remember what it's called)
[18:28:11] <mozmck> desktop cube!
[18:28:13] <SWPadnos> then middle-click on the background and drag
[18:28:19] <aa-danimal-shop> i just peeled off the stickers and moved them around
[18:28:20] <SWPadnos> or ctrl-alt-left or right
[18:28:34] <mozmck> ah, the middle click is what I didn't know
[18:29:00] <SWPadnos> oh, and if you have less than 3 desktops, it may be less interesting
[18:29:39] <mozmck> I see that. I guess 6 is best?
[18:30:07] <mozmck> no, I thought it would put them on top and bottom of the cube...
[18:30:07] <SWPadnos> I use 4 on my laptop, 7 on the camera control desktop, and something in between on other machines
[18:30:12] <SWPadnos> nope
[18:30:34] <SWPadnos> you can use some images for the top and bottom, or make them clear
[18:30:47] <mozmck> thanks. that looks neat.
[18:30:50] <SWPadnos> also, you can vary the gamma of the desktops, so you can see windows through the inside
[18:31:01] <SWPadnos> also check out the advanced task switcher
[18:31:05] <aa-danimal-shop> nerdy
[18:31:06] <SWPadnos> ctrl-alt-tab I think
[18:31:09] <aa-danimal-shop> :)
[18:31:21] <SWPadnos> oh no, windows-key+tab
[18:32:00] <aa-danimal-shop> windows button works in linux? that should be a sin
[18:32:25] <SWPadnos> you can repaint it if you like
[18:47:27] <aa-danimal-shop> weird, changing out my mobo fixed alot of glitches i had with classicladder
[18:55:17] <skunkworks> nice!
[18:56:11] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, i wasnt able to add any more arithmetic expressions before. it would just start changing previous ones, even if i had more than enough set in hal
[18:56:34] <aa-danimal-shop> with the new mobo, i was able to add some without issues
[18:57:35] <aa-danimal-shop> i think i was just pushing the limits of that pc. as soon as i added the ladder stuff for my coolant system, it really started getting flakey
[18:58:11] <aa-danimal-shop> runs nice and smooth now
[18:58:54] <aa-danimal-shop> odd
[19:00:20] <skunkworks> cool. This is the mill?
[19:00:38] <skunkworks> software stepping?
[19:01:38] <aa-danimal-shop> yes, the mill
[19:01:46] <aa-danimal-shop> 5i20 stepping
[19:04:26] <skunkworks> ah
[19:06:11] <aa-danimal-shop> you'll like ladder, you can do so much in it
[20:25:07] <Danimal-office> yawn
[20:57:52] <frallzor> sweet, my first roll test
[20:59:36] <aa-danimal-shop> roll test?
[20:59:51] <aa-danimal-shop> you mean you got your machine moving for the first time?
[21:00:03] <frallzor> well....
[21:00:15] <frallzor> maching moving...ish :P
[21:00:26] <frallzor> one axis moving, by hand power
[21:00:49] <frallzor> but it is coming along!
[21:01:35] <aa-danimal-shop> cool!
[21:01:50] <frallzor> * frallzor envies ries
[21:02:04] <ries> hey frallzor
[21:02:25] <frallzor> lo
[21:04:08] <frallzor> got le gantry setup for adjustment =)
[21:04:19] <frallzor> slides pretty well
[21:05:22] <DaViruz> pretty well, but not awesomely well?
[21:05:38] <frallzor> not until it moves without human interaction!
[21:05:51] <frallzor> then its awesome
[21:06:46] <aa-danimal-shop> your mill is going to be an android?
[21:06:52] <aa-danimal-shop> AI?
[21:06:56] <aa-danimal-shop> scary
[21:07:30] <aa-danimal-shop> it's going to machine out weapons of mass destruction when you're sleeping
[21:08:04] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe you should just run it with g code or something
[21:08:07] <frallzor> yes, I call it skynet
[21:08:11] <frallzor> the AI that is
[21:08:23] <frallzor> I think itll handle the mill pretty well
[21:09:27] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[21:12:46] <celeron55> 8)
[21:13:41] <frallzor> got myself a stupid little video too of the act of moving an axis *proud*
[21:39:04] <aa-danimal-shop> post it!
[21:41:40] <frallzor> I am, vimeo, slow converting =)
[21:41:46] <frallzor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaFJs5Ewu_g& enjoy this dude until then :P
[21:44:29] <frallzor> the sudden silence indicates hate :P
[21:44:46] <WalterN> I'll fix that
[21:44:56] <WalterN> what kind of knives should I get?
[21:45:01] <WalterN> I mean company
[21:45:17] <frallzor> so "sharp ones" doesnt help you much then? :P
[21:45:22] <aa-danimal-shop> you're a great dancer frallzor
[21:45:37] <frallzor> I wish that was me, he rocks!
[21:45:47] <frallzor> his skills are out of this solar system
[21:45:48] <aa-danimal-shop> dont be modest
[21:46:03] <WalterN> it looks like shun is a good choice...
[21:46:21] <WalterN> anybody have a preference?
[21:46:27] <frallzor> kyocera is nice
[21:46:35] <frallzor> if looking for that kind of knives
[21:46:55] <aa-danimal-shop> make your own
[21:47:16] <frallzor> metal is soooo 1890
[21:47:23] <frallzor> ceramic is the way to go!
[21:47:41] <WalterN> heh
[21:48:08] <frallzor> im considering tiling my mill, so I can claim its some ceramic
[21:49:59] <BlackMoon> just get some cermits
[21:54:56] <aa-danimal-shop> i tilted my mill too, because my floor isnt level
[21:55:24] <frallzor> tiling ;)
[21:56:05] <aa-danimal-shop> oh
[21:56:07] <aa-danimal-shop> opps
[21:56:11] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[21:56:27] <aa-danimal-shop> travertine looks so much better
[21:56:34] <frallzor> ohh screw you vimeo!
[21:56:38] <frallzor> 1 frame and audio
[21:56:40] <frallzor> greate.....
[21:56:45] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[21:56:47] <frallzor> *great even
[21:56:58] <WalterN> aa-danimal-shop: heh... I dont have access to the grinders necessary for shaping the metal for a nice knife
[21:58:12] <frallzor> 2nd try then
[21:58:54] <aa-danimal-shop> i use my surface grinder lol
[21:58:57] <BlackMoon> man is it just me
[21:59:03] <BlackMoon> or is drinking right from the milk container nasty?
[21:59:19] <andypugh> Depends on the container.
[21:59:22] <BlackMoon> My housemate does it and I sware the milk tastes like ass at least a week before its expirey date because of it.
[21:59:28] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, for you or for everyone else that uses that milk?
[21:59:29] <WalterN> aa-danimal-shop: where I used to work I had access to a surface grinder... but not here
[21:59:34] <BlackMoon> for everyone else
[21:59:49] <andypugh> If the container is a cow it is just wierd...
[21:59:56] <BlackMoon> who has to drink it a week later after all your mouth bacertia have been multiplying a bajillion times over
[22:00:38] <BlackMoon> I sware I should buy him his own carton of milk then in 2 weeks when its not drank and tastes like complete and utter ass he can finish it.
[22:00:46] <frallzor> I like them cows
[22:00:51] <frallzor> the ones that go mooh
[22:00:56] <aa-danimal-shop> the very first machine i bought was a surface grinder
[22:01:17] <WalterN> BlackMoon: how about straight from the cows utter? :)
[22:01:21] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: your projects must of taken a very... very.. long time
[22:02:10] <frallzor> drilling 2mm holes with a surface grinder is a bitch :P
[22:02:17] <BlackMoon> 'i'll just put on my roughing wheel and start work on grinding this 1" bar down to 5/8".. oh sorry, 0.6250 +-0.0001"'
[22:02:21] <WalterN> BlackMoon: just make sure the cow dosent have mastitis
[22:02:49] <BlackMoon> WalterN: .....
[22:02:53] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, i bought a few other machines shortly after :)
[22:03:03] <WalterN> unless you like cottage cheese
[22:03:07] <aa-danimal-shop> but i got a deal i couldnt pass up for my surface grinder
[22:03:33] <andypugh> I nearly bid on a Hardinge HCNCII today.
[22:03:33] <BlackMoon> I went to an auction and they wanted like $4000 for what looked like KBC's $3000 surface grinder :(
[22:03:48] <aa-danimal-shop> ouch!
[22:03:55] <BlackMoon> kodak plant closing auction
[22:04:01] <BlackMoon> 99% of the stuff there sold for retail or more then retail
[22:04:13] <BlackMoon> well retail/what it was actualy worth
[22:04:16] <aa-danimal-shop> i paid $400 for my Harig Super 612
[22:04:33] <BlackMoon> like anything remotely new went for more then chinese imports new and often more then american new
[22:04:34] <aa-danimal-shop> with a good mag chuck
[22:04:37] <andypugh> The Hardinge didn't. It reached £1400 but that seems cheap just for the tooling that was included.
[22:04:48] <BlackMoon> and anything old and beaten up went for like 20% more then anywhere else would ever pay in good condition
[22:04:58] <BlackMoon> and that was before 30% auction fees and tax
[22:05:17] <aa-danimal-shop> auctions arent usually too good for machines, unless it's one noone wants
[22:05:19] <BlackMoon> andypugh: you went to the kodak auction too?
[22:05:53] <BlackMoon> oh, you mean some other auction, sorry
[22:05:56] <andypugh> No, this was a Selex auction today. I posted about the lathe to the mailing list, but couldn't get to the IRC to mention it here.
[22:06:05] <BlackMoon> ah
[22:06:28] <aa-danimal-shop> i got my whole office set at an auction
[22:06:29] <andypugh> With 3 hours to go the Hardinge lathe was at £130.
[22:06:30] <BlackMoon> yea 1400 is a good price for a moderate condition lathe, moreso if it has any tooling
[22:06:50] <aa-danimal-shop> desk, chairs, computer, printer, fax, copier, cradenza and hutch, file cabinets, etc
[22:06:59] <BlackMoon> haha
[22:07:18] <BlackMoon> 'I did'nt even know what a cradenza was, but I got one now!'
[22:07:28] <BlackMoon> 'somewhere...'
[22:07:28] <aa-danimal-shop> hahah i didnt know!
[22:07:41] <andypugh> http://www.ppauctions.com/online/index.php?a=1002&b=37601
[22:08:15] <aa-danimal-shop> it was funny, they only showed a picture of the desk and computer, and when i went down there, they were like "here's your stuff!", i was like, uhhh.... i think i need to make a few trips
[22:08:17] <frallzor> I could have gotten a pretty nice old mill
[22:08:18] <BlackMoon> oh shit nice
[22:08:25] <frallzor> but I have no room at all =(
[22:08:35] <BlackMoon> faulty screen hahaha killjoy
[22:08:48] <andypugh> Big deal, I would convert to EMC anyway.
[22:08:54] <BlackMoon> thats like wtf where would I get one of those.
[22:08:59] <BlackMoon> Well yea you'd pertty much have to
[22:09:11] <aa-danimal-shop> good deal
[22:09:15] <BlackMoon> kinda sad to rip all that out though... but at that price, still worth it
[22:09:21] <BlackMoon> wtf is up with that GIANT control panel on it though?
[22:09:22] <andypugh> The chances are that any screen would work I reckon.
[22:09:33] <BlackMoon> andypugh: what you think its just some VGA shit?
[22:09:43] <andypugh> On some level, yes.
[22:09:50] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, if you think that's giant, you should have seen the control i removed from my hardinge lathe
[22:09:51] <BlackMoon> maybe.
[22:10:09] <aa-danimal-shop> it weighed about 8oolbs
[22:10:09] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: is that like, a full manual input control suit or something?
[22:10:11] <andypugh> Or at a more basic level, it's HT and scan coils..
[22:10:12] <frallzor> aa-danimal-shop http://pici.se/p/large/zQmQPtSlX/ enjoy this picture for now :P
[22:10:33] <BlackMoon> andypugh: I guess im just not leet enough to consider jurry rig swaping CRT's over
[22:11:10] <BlackMoon> frallzor: hey that looks like its going somewhere!
[22:11:10] <aa-danimal-shop> here's what my lathe came with: http://www.cnccontrolsolutions.com/optomizedpictures/HNC205.jpg
[22:11:17] <aa-danimal-shop> thats not my lathe though
[22:11:23] <aa-danimal-shop> frallzor, : looks great!
[22:11:42] <BlackMoon> frallzor: so many peoples homemade CNC stuff is made outta cardboard and toothpicks, Great to see someone use some SERIOUS steel!
[22:11:42] <frallzor> indeed it does, just need to align properly tomorrow, drill and tap then X is done
[22:11:54] <frallzor> BlackMoon just following the plans :P
[22:11:59] <frallzor> its a mechmate =)
[22:12:07] <BlackMoon> frallzor: you still had to pick good plans!
[22:12:10] <BlackMoon> :)
[22:12:30] <frallzor> I just went for the one that had biggest working area :P
[22:12:31] <BlackMoon> I assume your gonna route 4x8 sheets of wood?
[22:12:50] <frallzor> 4x8 hmmm
[22:13:01] <frallzor> let me convert that mumbo jumbo to something I understand
[22:13:07] <BlackMoon> hahah.
[22:13:11] <aa-danimal-shop> ha
[22:13:12] <BlackMoon> its a plywood sheet
[22:13:43] <BlackMoon> I mean, I see giant router and I instantly think 'Feed plywood in, pull product out'
[22:13:56] <BlackMoon> (well, plus some glueing and screwing but whatever)
[22:14:03] <aa-danimal-shop> damn limies :)
[22:14:28] <frallzor> more like 5.5x9
[22:14:36] <frallzor> at most
[22:14:38] <BlackMoon> ah great then
[22:14:44] <BlackMoon> lots of space for fixtures and such
[22:15:11] <frallzor> issues finding the board to put as "bottom" though
[22:15:21] <frallzor> seems to be hard to find here
[22:15:41] <BlackMoon> Yea.. iv seen DIY vacuum tables before
[22:16:00] <frallzor> wonder that a 5.5x9 around an inch thick alu costs
[22:16:03] <frallzor> *what
[22:16:20] <BlackMoon> usally like a cross hatch pattren with holes drilled in it, with another plate underneath it thats got a similar pattren but bigger grooves and no holes
[22:16:39] <BlackMoon> you apply vacuum to the under plate and plug up any unneeded holes in the top plate and insert gasket material
[22:17:06] <BlackMoon> even a couple PSI will produce thousands of pounds of clamping force on a sheet of plywood.
[22:17:29] <WalterN> yeah
[22:18:11] <BlackMoon> I think the top plate is usally disposable too so you can cut into it when needed
[22:18:22] <BlackMoon> (Can be made on the router easily enough)
[22:18:24] <frallzor> I need a new bloody caliper too
[22:18:45] <frallzor> old one gave up completely today =(
[22:18:52] <BlackMoon> tryed new battery?
[22:18:56] <frallzor> yep
[22:19:00] <BlackMoon> k im outta ideas
[22:19:02] <BlackMoon> :P
[22:19:13] <frallzor> the readings are just waaaay off now, tried all tricks of the trades
[22:19:18] <BlackMoon> im sure you allready riped it apart and lost some screws like I did.
[22:19:20] <frallzor> mitutoyo here I come
[22:19:22] <aa-danimal-shop> get it wet?
[22:19:33] <frallzor> na it just "died" on me
[22:19:35] <MrSunshine> but what happends with the vacuum if you cut straight throught the plate? :)
[22:19:51] <BlackMoon> MrSunshine: well your not supposed to cut ALL the way through the plate :)
[22:19:58] <MrSunshine> why not? :P
[22:20:05] <aa-danimal-shop> yea, mitutoyos are really good, i've had the same set for about 12 years, used heavily daily
[22:20:07] <BlackMoon> ...... Because of loss of vacuum? :P
[22:20:13] <MrSunshine> BlackMoon, ahh smart ...
[22:20:23] <BlackMoon> mitutoyo pisses me off with thier mocking prices.
[22:20:36] <BlackMoon> if it was like $50 sure.. $80 maybe... $200? wtf.
[22:20:38] <frallzor> a nice caliper aint that expensive
[22:21:02] <BlackMoon> * BlackMoon still uses some $20 crappy digitial calipers
[22:21:15] <BlackMoon> havent let me down yet! still accurate even after a drop.. Not that buying a new pair would kill my bank.
[22:21:40] <frallzor> * frallzor is happy today too, got the bulb for the electronics
[22:21:46] <BlackMoon> And by accurate I mean still within +-0.001" whenever I whip out my micrometers
[22:21:57] <BlackMoon> usally +-0.0005, its display limit.
[22:22:14] <i_tarzan> the bulb?
[22:22:28] <frallzor> a bulb for an indication light
[22:22:36] <BlackMoon> (Mind you, my micrometers are also $20 each....)
[22:23:04] <BlackMoon> I looked extra hard to find the leet micrometers with the digital readout though. :P
[22:23:19] <BlackMoon> (the.. dial digital readout that is, no batterys to change here!)
[22:23:40] <aa-danimal-shop> mitutoyos are about $90
[22:23:54] <aa-danimal-shop> $80-$100
[22:23:57] <aa-danimal-shop> for 6"
[22:24:14] <BlackMoon> Well, still gotta read the vernier for 0.0001" but oh well)
[22:24:19] <archivist> vernier caliper also known as guessing stick, surprisingly accurate these days even the cheap sh*t
[22:24:28] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: man KBC really rips me off then :(
[22:25:09] <BlackMoon> archivist: hehe. Yea im amazed how well verniers work
[22:25:15] <archivist> I test mine with some glass micrometer testing standards
[22:25:42] <BlackMoon> I test mine with the $20 chinese standards that where included with my micrometers
[22:25:48] <aa-danimal-shop> BlackMoon, maybe that's for the waterproof ones with the output cable
[22:25:52] <BlackMoon> of course, for all I know they where ground to match the micrometers. :P
[22:26:33] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: maybe.
[22:27:32] <aa-danimal-shop> i just got the regular old black and yellow ones
[22:27:57] <BlackMoon> heh
[22:28:20] <BlackMoon> some places here are selling black carbon fiber calipers good for only 0.01"
[22:28:44] <aa-danimal-shop> lol
[22:28:57] <BlackMoon> like its not that they are inaccurate, its just they only display to 0.01"
[22:29:08] <aa-danimal-shop> the cheap chineese ones have quite a bit of deflection in them compared to the decent ones
[22:29:24] <BlackMoon> aa-danimal-shop: oh, I allways close by pressureing the jaws
[22:29:35] <BlackMoon> also, I keep the 'lock' screw ever so slightly tightened
[22:29:50] <BlackMoon> sorta like a gib
[22:30:16] <archivist> andypugh, re hobbing thread, I noted some are not thinking straight, I did produce some gcode to demonstrate a straight rack form cutting an involute a long time ago
[22:30:42] <BlackMoon> never more then 0.001" wrong when im paying attention.. and no more then 0.004" if im just quicking testing something
[22:30:48] <BlackMoon> if its critical out comes the micrometers
[22:31:26] <archivist> I have a baaaad habit of using the calipers on the lathe while its spinning :)
[22:31:39] <BlackMoon> archivist: you just rotate the gear while moving the rack right?
[22:31:50] <archivist> yup
[22:31:58] <BlackMoon> to make the involute the proper form for the gear tooth count, reguardless what it is
[22:32:06] <archivist> some of the gear shapers do that
[22:32:22] <BlackMoon> yea its the cool/slow way of making any size gear without having a billion cutters
[22:32:26] <andypugh> "Shaving" I thiknk they call it.
[22:32:35] <frallzor> http://vimeo.com/9948337 finally :P
[22:33:14] <BlackMoon> Oh yea, hobbing should also do it
[22:33:22] <BlackMoon> because thats basicly the same process
[22:33:29] <andypugh> Hobbing is the fast way to make andy size without lots of different cutters. But needs odd geometry.
[22:33:29] <BlackMoon> cut, move gear, cut, move gear
[22:33:48] <BlackMoon> odd geometry?
[22:34:00] <BlackMoon> I thought a hob was just rack form teeth
[22:34:10] <BlackMoon> with lots of fun cutting in all the relief angles and such
[22:34:10] <andypugh> The cuttter axis and the gear axis are not perpendicular.
[22:34:26] <BlackMoon> Oh yea because its a helix
[22:34:48] <BlackMoon> never noticed that reading about gearmaking
[22:35:11] <aa-danimal-shop> nice frallzor! is that in a bedroom or something? lol
[22:35:20] <BlackMoon> come to think of it, the hob style gearmaking iv seen on lathes was allways to mate with a worm gear, usally from the same threading operation that made the hob.
[22:35:25] <andypugh> That's the bit I can't decide how to address. My axes are all perpendicular.
[22:35:35] <frallzor> its called a garage aa-danimal-shop
[22:35:50] <aa-danimal-shop> oh didnt look like a garage
[22:35:50] <frallzor> or maybe yanks call it car hole :P
[22:36:03] <BlackMoon> andypugh: well, how about making helical gears? :P
[22:36:15] <aa-danimal-shop> maybe it just looks small because it's for those tiny british cars :)
[22:36:24] <andypugh> I have considered it, but then the mathematics gets tricky.
[22:36:29] <frallzor> I wouldnt know, im swedish and drive a volvo
[22:36:32] <BlackMoon> andypugh: would'nt two incorrectly gears made by this process mate?
[22:36:49] <BlackMoon> I mean, its just dependant on the hob helix angle
[22:36:51] <aa-danimal-shop> oh lol i thought all you people over there drive lil cars
[22:37:25] <BlackMoon> the other option is you can try the free wheel style of hobbing
[22:37:34] <andypugh> If you have perpendicular axes then you need to feed a proportion of the cut distance into the axis phasing in a way that makes my head hurt.
[22:37:41] <BlackMoon> where your hob drives the gear blank itself
[22:37:54] <BlackMoon> sometimes a pregnashed blank to help keep it indexed and everything
[22:38:01] <aa-danimal-shop> i'm part swedish
[22:38:11] <BlackMoon> but iv heard of people just feeding it in and getting it to work, like knurling
[22:38:29] <aa-danimal-shop> and i enjoy swedish fish
[22:38:44] <aa-danimal-shop> and swedish meatballs
[22:38:44] <andypugh> Yes, but you seem to be assuming that I want to make gears, whereas really I want to make a hobbing machine :-)
[22:38:47] <Jymmm> the candy?
[22:38:57] <frallzor> I enjoy swedish girls
[22:39:02] <BlackMoon> andypugh: Nonsense, Everyone wants to make gears!
[22:39:13] <aa-danimal-shop> frallzor, i'm with you there
[22:39:17] <BlackMoon> I mean when I bought my mill thats what I told myself, id be making gears and slots all day long.
[22:39:24] <BlackMoon> Not that iv gotten around to making either yet but..
[22:40:04] <andypugh> Yeah, I bought my machine to make a clock, then decided it would be easier and faster if it was CNC, so started converting it. That was 18 months ago.
[22:40:05] <aa-danimal-shop> volvo=ford
[22:40:17] <aa-danimal-shop> ford>volvo
[22:40:17] <frallzor> except better :P
[22:40:18] <andypugh> Volvo == Geely
[22:40:37] <BlackMoon> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=40160 WTFMILL.
[22:40:47] <BlackMoon> andypugh: hahah.
[22:41:51] <andypugh> Volvo make Peugeot engines for Ford, but don't use them themselves. Ford make engines for Peugeot, Jaguar and Landrover, but don't use them themselves.
[22:43:40] <BlackMoon> you said that allready.
[22:47:41] <andypugh> I don't understand the auto industry, basically.
[22:48:55] <BlackMoon> oh, the 2nd part was backwards.
[22:49:20] <BlackMoon> well its an industry that thinks a $20,000 machine should'nt last more then 10 years of light use with full maintence.
[22:49:54] <BlackMoon> And does whatever they can to redesign it EVERY year and make parts of last years model incompatable with this for no pratical reason whatsoever
[22:50:00] <BlackMoon> what exactly was wrong with cars of 10 years ago?
[22:50:09] <BlackMoon> cars don't look any better then they did..
[22:50:15] <BlackMoon> infact many are downright ulgyer.
[22:51:05] <BlackMoon> and has made the maintence and repair of these cars as horriable as humanly possable.
[22:51:10] <andypugh> Legislation is the main driver.
[22:52:04] <BlackMoon> Right, legislation is the reason why the brake light cover of no two cars on the face of the planet are interchangable and they charge you $150 for some injection molded clear plastic that you can't even buy except from a auto wrecker a few years after you buy the car brand new.
[22:52:33] <BlackMoon> Or that body panels..well, forget getting new body panels
[22:52:37] <BlackMoon> and good luck getting a patch installed
[22:52:44] <andypugh> patch?
[22:52:46] <BlackMoon> with todays micro thin galvinized metal
[22:52:47] <Jymmm> BlackMoon: Dude, red tape, any auto parts store, $2
[22:52:57] <BlackMoon> Jymmm: should'nt have to is my point
[22:53:10] <BlackMoon> andypugh: to replace a rusted or damaged body panel
[22:53:17] <andypugh> The cars seem to not rust anything like they used to though.
[22:53:31] <andypugh> In fact, I don't know when I last saw a rusty car.
[22:53:31] <BlackMoon> if cars where remotely standardised you'd be able to just buy new body panels and slap them on in an hour
[22:53:39] <Jymmm> BlackMoon: This isn't communist China... We have choices!
[22:53:43] <BlackMoon> andypugh: well how about a dented one
[22:53:47] <BlackMoon> or a scraped up one
[22:53:51] <archivist> actually the marina rear light was used on land rover or range rover
[22:54:01] <andypugh> Throw it away and buy a new one :-)
[22:54:19] <BlackMoon> andypugh: thats pertty much what the auto manufactures would want you to do.
[22:54:26] <andypugh> archivist: And probably a TVR
[22:54:47] <BlackMoon> oh your car has a scratch? sorry we don't fix scratchs, you'll have to scrap it and get insurance to buy you a new one, don't worry, the deductable will only quadruple.
[22:54:53] <archivist> it was the discovery
[22:55:16] <BlackMoon> Jymmm: too many choices are a dangerious thing
[22:55:27] <BlackMoon> (Don't get me started on starbucks)
[22:55:31] <Jymmm> BlackMoon: Never
[22:55:38] <Jymmm> fsck starsucks
[22:55:56] <BlackMoon> Jymmm: ok how about a noob in the insert section of a catalog
[22:55:59] <BlackMoon> Now THATS a dangerious thing.
[22:56:03] <Jymmm> I JUST WANT A LARGE DAMN COFFEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:56:04] <BlackMoon> At least to wallets.
[22:56:10] <andypugh> Somebody seems to have assasinated the designers at Peugeot, their cars have gone from looking good to looking hideous.
[22:56:36] <BlackMoon> Jymmm: iv seen my brother wait in line for 15 mins at a tim hortons to get a coffee
[22:56:43] <BlackMoon> we could of made the coffee at home faster then that.
[22:56:55] <BlackMoon> ya know.. the place we left 5 mins before passing the tim hortons
[22:57:10] <Jymmm> BlackMoon: So, your brother is a dumbass. what can I say
[22:57:12] <BlackMoon> and you know his reply? 'the line sure is short today!'
[22:57:12] <andypugh> Why do people look at me funny when I say I like instant coffee better?
[22:57:25] <BlackMoon> Jymmm: got that right.
[22:57:33] <BlackMoon> but sadly, so many other people are dumbasses too :(
[22:58:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: I drink instant so I dont wste a whole pot. It's perfect when you just want ONE cup in the evening.
[22:58:12] <archivist> andypugh, my mundano diesel engine ran away today, something odd in the governor I reckon, had to switch off quickly
[22:58:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: Though, I will admit that my camp coffee beats anything I've ever had.
[22:59:03] <andypugh> What model year / engine?
[22:59:16] <archivist> 1999 I think
[22:59:26] <archivist> 1.8
[22:59:26] <andypugh> Rotary pump?
[22:59:34] <archivist> probably yes
[22:59:49] <archivist> and it surges and black smokes
[22:59:55] <andypugh> Turbot?
[23:00:05] <archivist> yup
[23:00:24] <andypugh> Runaway could be turbo bearings, as could the smoke.
[23:01:04] <archivist> another symptom is flatspot and extra diesel knock
[23:01:06] <andypugh> Turbo bearings can leak oil straight into the intake air, and then it doesn't matter how little fuel you put in, it still runs.
[23:01:47] <andypugh> I can offer you a good deal on a lovely shiny new Mundaneo
[23:02:20] <archivist> hehe, absolutely no spare money, very negative equity here
[23:02:26] <bill2or3> do you have one in beige?
[23:02:47] <BlackMoon> andypugh: lol.
[23:03:24] <BlackMoon> how do you shut off a diesel if something starts spueing fuel into the air intake?
[23:04:13] <BlackMoon> Or do you just stick it in neutral and run away?
[23:04:23] <archivist> switched off and luckily it started slowing, was parked in a petrol station
[23:04:25] <andypugh> I had a hell of a day yesterday, driving cars as they came off the line in Genk (Belgium) until 5pm, then drove back to the UK, got back to the office at 11pm and writing emails until midnight. That's what I call a day's work.
[23:04:55] <andypugh> Stick it in neutral and run away.
[23:05:38] <andypugh> More modern ones have a diagnostic that spots the fact that revs are high and fuel is zero, and shuts the intake throttle to stall the engine.
[23:06:02] <archivist> actually theis runaway was after a period of tickover while checking tires, so there could be a buildup of oil in the intake
[23:06:42] <andypugh> There's the problem, UK Mondeos should be fitted with tyres.
[23:06:46] <archivist> hmm ebay turbo hunting time
[23:07:22] <DaViruz> hmm, i have just built an rtai kernel ( patched with rtai 2.8, but when i run the latency test it just sits there idly for a minute and then freezes
[23:07:24] <andypugh> Check for oily goop in the intercooler first (if you have one)
[23:07:40] <archivist> will do
[23:08:23] <andypugh> There is always some oily goop in the intercooler, but if the turbo bearings have gone there will be lots.
[23:09:05] <andypugh> DaViruz: is that running it from the menu?
[23:09:23] <DaViruz> no, running it from /usr/realtime/testsuite/kern/latency
[23:09:25] <DaViruz> no x running
[23:09:43] <andypugh> OK, that was what I was about to suggest.
[23:10:33] <andypugh> I think that one set of instructions suggested that you needed some insmods before you can run that though.
[23:11:19] <andypugh> Sorry, not insmod, mknod (I have no idea at all what that does)
[23:11:23] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration
[23:16:10] <DaViruz> i'll give it a shot but i don't think that's it
[23:16:27] <andypugh> You are almost certainly right, those are Dapper instructions.
[23:16:48] <andypugh> Have you tried typing "latency-test"?
[23:17:21] <andypugh> (I never have, but that is what the page says)
[23:19:20] <andypugh> OK, I just tried it, and it doesn't work with my otherwise working system, so probably won't with yours.
[23:19:27] <DaViruz> i don't have that script (this isn't an ubuntu release)
[23:19:55] <DaViruz> i've pretty much followed http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?RtaiSteps
[23:19:57] <andypugh> (/usr/local/bin/latency-test: Line 140: halrun: command not found.)
[23:21:28] <DaViruz> i'm pretty sure the problem is with my kernel configuration, but the log files offer no hints, and neither do googling the matter
[23:21:37] <acemi> DaViruz: what is your distro?
[23:21:58] <andypugh> I never got those instructions to work. I managed to build an SMP RTAI kernel using some instructions here: http://neo-technical.wikispaces.com/emc2-ubuntu
[23:22:33] <DaViruz> acemi: CRUX 2.6
[23:22:55] <acemi> your processor?
[23:23:05] <ds3> anyone know if EMC can control a regular DC brush motor driving a wheel with an optical interruptor (hole on the wheel) so the wheel can accurately lineup a taperpin in a repeatable fashion?
[23:23:30] <DaViruz> acemi: intel atom N270
[23:23:52] <DaViruz> intel D945GSEJT board
[23:24:19] <acemi> IIRC there is a bug with atom n270
[23:24:26] <DaViruz> :I
[23:24:39] <acemi> I saw a massage from RTAI mail list
[23:25:32] <andypugh> ds3: You want to drive until the hole appears, and then slowly back to it if it overshoots?
[23:25:51] <DaViruz> that issue seems to result in the kernel not starting at all
[23:26:01] <andypugh> (I am struggling to understand the question)
[23:26:08] <ds3> andypugh: no, I just want to hit it on the first go
[23:26:25] <ds3> andypugh: trying to figure a easy way of adding an ATC to a lathe
[23:26:27] <acemi> DaViruz: https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2010-February/022598.html
[23:26:36] <andypugh> Can the motor stop in less than a hole-width?
[23:27:04] <ds3> donno... what if I use a stepper instead then?
[23:27:43] <DaViruz> acemi: hmm, N270 isnt multicore
[23:27:51] <DaViruz> and i don't have SMP support enabled
[23:27:58] <andypugh> I reckon you ought to be able to do it with the DC motor and Classic Ladder but that is a quess predicated on total ignorance of Classic Ladder
[23:28:31] <acemi> this is the first message of the thread
[23:29:07] <acemi> see this too: https://mail.gna.org/public/adeos-main/2010-02/threads.html
[23:29:12] <ds3> would the overshoot be a predictable amount?
[23:29:19] <acemi> RTAI is baed on adeos
[23:31:25] <andypugh> ds3: That's a question about your setup, not EMC.
[23:32:35] <andypugh> With a DC motor you could probably use a ratchet arrangement, drive round until the index, then reverse the motor, letting it stall against the pin for a fixed time. Should be repeatable.
[23:34:06] <DaViruz> hmm, all these problems seems to be in the early boot process, my system boots fine. the general idea seems to be to choose an older processor type, so i'll see if that resolves my issues
[23:34:42] <ds3> andypugh: I see.
[23:34:57] <ds3> andypugh: A stepper would let me side step all of this, right?
[23:38:06] <ds3> most of this comes down to, I donno how accurate a standard taper pin needs to be to align itself
[23:39:34] <SWPadnos> a stepper wouldn't inherently be any better, IMO
[23:39:53] <SWPadnos> you still have to decelerate a stepper, or it'll stall (and you lose position when that happens)
[23:40:04] <andypugh> The motor type is fairly irrelevant, the big issue is how you index and clamp
[23:40:08] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:41:47] <andypugh> I am not sure how well a taper pin works in that application. The problem with them is that they are designed to stick...
[23:43:26] <ds3> the taper on a taper pin is design to stick like a morse taper?
[23:43:37] <andypugh> I reckon you would get a good index with two crossed V-grooves in both the toolpost and top slide, and hardened rollers sat in them. But I am not sure you would get good rigidity.
[23:43:46] <andypugh> ds3: Yes
[23:44:22] <andypugh> Assuming we are talking about the same sort of taper pin.
[23:44:25] <ds3> scratch that idea then
[23:44:47] <ds3> I donno, I just heard taper pins are used for alignment and I figure a carasel tool changer would need good alignment to be useful
[23:45:28] <andypugh> I play with an old fire engine, that has collars on shafts all over the place (including the cam lobes) that have stayed put for 90 years just on the friction of taper pins.
[23:47:02] <andypugh> You would be fine with a faster taper, I reckon, but I don't know where you would find a reamer.
[23:47:30] <ds3> faster means it will look more like a dead center compared to a morse taper?
[23:48:07] <andypugh> Yes. But perhaps not that fast.
[23:48:23] <ds3> right, I just wanted to know the 'sense' of the word
[23:48:36] <andypugh> Some victorian or other probably worked out the optimal tapers for all sorts of different uses.
[23:49:09] <ds3> it isn't just the reamer; it is also getting a suitable hardened and ground pin with the right taper
[23:49:29] <ds3> a benzomatic + cup of motor oil on a machined peice of O2 probally won't cut it
[23:49:29] <andypugh> But I guess that the taper on INT or BT toolholders is fast enough not to lock, whereas the Morse taper is.
[23:49:48] <Valen> archivist: good luck yer yer motor
[23:49:54] <Valen> with yer motor that is
[23:52:02] <andypugh> Have a look at cradek's Hardinge toolpost at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWuOZutnjTk
[23:52:21] <ds3> no flash at the moment
[23:52:44] <andypugh> That raises up to rotate then clamps down onto some sort of dog arrangement to lock/index
[23:52:59] <SWPadnos_> Cool
[23:53:23] <SWPadnos_> I wonder what changed to make ir
[23:53:26] <andypugh> I guess it is pneumatic, but could be hydraulic
[23:53:34] <SWPadnos_> IRC work on my phone
[23:54:10] <ds3> what phone?
[23:54:17] <SWPadnos_> Droid
[23:55:19] <Valen> that is awesome
[23:55:47] <Valen> droid lacks a youtube player?
[23:55:55] <Valen> rather than the embedded flash player thing
[23:56:11] <SWPadnos_> No. There's an app for that :)
[23:56:35] <SWPadnos_> YouTube is Google, after all
[23:56:56] <SWPadnos_> Now all I need is a bluetooth keyboard
[23:56:56] <Valen> I figured as much
[23:56:56] <andypugh> even iPhone has a YouTube app
[23:57:11] <Valen> windows mobile has a youtube app as well
[23:57:31] <Valen> though it won't let you upload
[23:57:42] <Valen> which is a bit crappy as all my videos are taken from the phone
[23:58:09] <Valen> at least wm6.5 lets you use the phone as a mass storage device
[23:59:00] <andypugh> Googling shows that you can upload to youtube natively with the iPhone
[23:59:48] <SWPadnos> apparently that's native on recent Android versions as well