cant believe it, my shop is almost clean
time to pick up the pup. she just got spayed
SWPadnos: you around?
[01:29:24] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?JakeAndRussells
's our machine, I'm going to be working on the description and adding a bunch more photos
Whoo! Britain has just got it's 10th Winter Olympics gold medal ever. (and the first for something like 20 years)
(checks). Make that 30 years.
aa-danimal-shop: I was thinking about building a CNC machine around something like this http://www.artcotools.com/compete-nsk-e3000-series-spindle-system-60000-rpm-pr-16758.html
just the driver is $2,000... should be able to make something like that myself
i paid less than that for my whole mill
There are ostensibly similar devices on eBay for about 1/10th of that. Whether they are 1/10th the quality is the question.
the drive is really nice though, I set one up at work on the omni-turn for the C-axes
seems to be balanced really well
[01:52:57] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WATER-COOLE-MOTOR-SPINDLE-2-2KW-AND-MATCHING-INVERTER-d_W0QQitemZ220415371639QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET?hash=item3351c7a977#ht_11994wt_1122
Not as fast, but a lot more power. So not actually the same thing at all.
andypugh: this is for an engraving machine...
I just picked that one because it has the drive. There are smaller ones (don't know if they are faster). I also don't know if they are any good at all.
i love how they say iso9001 certified which means top quality item... iso has nothing to do with quality, it just means you follow certain guidelines. your tollerances can still be plus or minus a foot, and as long as you document it correctly you can get iso certified
awesome engrish too
Hi again... I'm back :)
Tool offset problem fixed... G43.
It did not even occur to me to use G43 on a lathe.
Is there a way not to have to use it?
not as bad as some of the mistakes i've done though
good question for cradek
No, you just have to auto-type M6T4G43 every time.
I have seen lathes that use T0202 for tool 2 offset 2...
[02:01:00] <WalterN> http://www.artcotools.com/nsk-brushless-motor-pr-16960.html
But don't recall seeing one that uses G43.
terrylm: yea, all the machines i've run has a t0202 or something of the sorts
dont know why emc is different
Probably it's mill heritage.
anyway, that would make a great engraving machine spindle I think
So at this point everything works!
Danimal-office: how accurate is your CNC mill?
great terrylm! post up a vid!
WalterN: never fully tested it, but seems to hold.001" without an issue
depends on what you're doing
Danimal-office: because I could also get something like this... http://www.artcotools.com/nsk-hes510-milling-spindle-6000-50000rpms-pr-16752.html
I'm not sure if I want to do that though
it would be nice to keep them separate
how much are really accurate ballscrews?
for an engraving machine I wouldent need the load capability
asking the wrong person
never had to buy them, my machines came with them
I want to make one though :P
It is not so much the accuracy of the screws, it is the compensation numbers.
For screw error.
Usually with a laser system
I've done both.
clytle374: what do you mean screw error? like the screw is bent slightly?
I think you can get too obsessed with accuracy. I can't think of many applications where you need to hold 0.001" over more than 1".
WalterN: backlash compensation
andypugh: for engraving the watches at work, they need to be atleast +-0.001
The places you will want real accuracy are likely to be bores, and then if you care you will use a boring head.
There is always some error in the lead of the screw. Backlash is seperate
andypugh: at work we make these... http://www.montanawatch.com/
Look in the manuals for compensation tables.
WalterN: Yes, but that is 0.001" over 1"
Sorry, I missed a digit from my first comment. I meant over 12" initially.
the other ones are made here too
just the engraving is not done here
[02:17:50] <WalterN> http://www.rockymountainwatch.com/
are engraved here
For engraving I would rather expect that you care a lot more about repeatability than accuracy.
sure, with good fixtures and such :P
and alignment for the engraving
What I am saying is that if you are engraving a fine pattern, it isn't important that one line is 1" from another, just that is it 0.01" from the nearest one.
the backs of them are engraved too... it starts to get noticeable if its out of whack by 0.0015"
(from one side of the watch to the other)
Yes, but even cheap ballscrews can hold that over the width if a watch.
thats what I was wondering
The super-precision ballscrews try to hold that over yards.
how much are those?
I have never even bothered to look. I used the absolute cheapest I could find.
WalterN: are you a dental floss tycoon?
I am used to making things on manual machines.
Danimal-office: why? what are those?
And almost nothing I make matters to closer than 0.01" except for press-fits which are bored.
Montana. Frank Zappa apparently moved there to become one.
just curious if that's a regular thing up there
Danimal-office: donno who that is, but w/e
that's like not knowing who led zepplin is
He was fairly famous.
donno who what is either :P
kids these days..
I listen to only the old old stuff
spelled that wrong, mendelssohn
i just dont know about you sometimes WalterN
Led Zeppelin and Zappa are pretty old now.
Danimal-office: the human voice ruins good music
most of the time
This is the cheap option. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Screw_Compensation
no, sobriety ruins good music
every group that sobers up = instant failure
good music :)
fun to watch too
i just invented something i think i need to patent
hey Skalar :)
Jymmmmmmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmmmm
Danimal-office: It's already been invented http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.29431
WalterN: I agree for the most part on the human voice and music! especially opera - blech!
mozmck: heh... did you watch that video I posted?
watching now - interesting!
of course, I like acapella as well...
mozmck: You like vocals primarily?
I like good straight singing.
mozmck: opera? acapella? lounge singer?
Nah, though I do have Monks
but that's more unique than mainstay
not at all
Spanish Guitar I like a lot
(not all bluegrass)
with or without vocals
spanish guitar with or without vocals
I like that as well - haven't heard a whole lot of it.
But I listen to EVERYTHING but gangsta rap
Glenn Miller to Lady gaga
[02:58:37] <Jymmmmmmmmmm> http://filebin.ca/rgyts/AndTheBeatGoesOn-Whispers.mp3
[03:00:51] <Jymmmmmmmmmm> http://imagebin.ca/view/Tn2LHR.html
This bird befriend an abandond mouse ^^^^^^^^^^
mozmck: have you seen classical gas before?
i was laughing at your other link
Danimal-office: DX ?
Jymmmmmmmmmm: you listen to senior gaga, but wont listen to the ghetto boys?
the fantacy egg
you prefer the disco stick huh
Danimal-office: I could care less if s/he's and a shemale or not, I just enjoy an eclectic collection of music.
And No, I dort wanna hear that he put a cap in yo ass
it's just a documentary of my struggles as a youth on the mean streets of Connecticut
Danimal-office: BTW, there's video on youtube abot the egg
* Jymmmmmmmmmm smacks Danimal-office with a clue-by-four!
Danimal-office: I bet they dont even have street in Connecticut, just dirt roads (trails?)
Jymmmmmmmmmm: connecticut had the highest murder rate for the longest time
Did it beat DC ?
yea, highest means higher than others
i feel safer in south central los angeles than i do in the projects in hartford or bridgeport CT
Danimal-office: Next time you're up this way, remind me to beat your ass =)
i might be up that way soon
for a mountain bike race
sea otter classic at laguna seca
If it doens't involve a motor, i dont wanna hear it
you wont hear it
my bike is silent
well i just ordered an external coolant tank for my mill
Danimal-office: sorry, but i hate bicyclists.
the existing coolant tank is in the base of the mill and it's cast iron
cast iron coolant tank = rusty coolant
Danimal-office: cuase more fucking accidents, dont stop and signs,lights, block traffic, etc
agreed, which is why i dont ride on the road
i MOUNTAIN bike
dont group me in with those roadie douches
Danimal-office: Ok cool, then I'll just beat your ass for the smartass comment and not to a bloody pulp for bring a bicyclists, though you do promote them =)
Danimal-office: Now, if you can make parts that that cause them all to fall off a cliff, I'm all for it!!!!!!!
* Jymmmmmmmmmm is probably driving his gf crazy right now with the stereo in the garage FULL BLAST!!!!
(which is where I am atm)
Jymmmmmmmmmm: my parts are for mountain bikes. completely unrelated to roadies, grouping them together is not good for your health
Danimal-office: Ah, my bad.
As the saying goes... Music to sooth the savage beast!
trust me, i've unleashed a fair bit of road rage on some roadies
Yeah, I have ZERO issues with mountian biking
jsut these spandex wearing mother fsckers!
mountain bikers wear lycra too
And I HATE spandex on women, much less men too
not me though
cool, then I wont have to burn them off ya
while still being worn
Now, where did the hatred come from you ask....
I worked at a place once and this 250lb black lady came into work once wearing white LACE spandex pants leaving NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING to the imagination!!!
Ever since then I've notice that even the hottest chick looks bad in spandex as they highlight ever single little flaw they may have.
If worn with a ling sweater of something, maybe. but most dont.
Ok, I think I'm starting to decompress a bit.
will stop torturing my gf.
you're angry today
seriously wound up
are you listening to linkin park again?
whats wrong with the car
throwing misfire #6, replaced plug, threw misfire #8, replaced all plugs, threw misfire #8 AGAIN, swapped #8 and #1 coils, threw Misfire #1. Just waiting for car to cool down to replace coil. This has been going on for two weeks. Took 6 hours yesterday to replace plugs
jymm what kind of car
Jymmmmmmmmmm: clogged injector most likely
had similar issues
* aa-danimal-shop thinks Jymmmmmmmmmm has a v8 ford product, possibly mustang
1999 or newer
* aa-danimal-shop has a car's worth of spare parts for such vehicles
wait i misread what you said. obviously a coil if it followed the coil
and not a ford if it took 6 hours to change the plugs
unless you're a horrible mechanic
Depends of the Ford, try it on a LS
only ones i'm not familiar with is the ls, the continental, and the newest thunderbirds
all the other modular motors are pretty easy
Took 2 hours to change on coil, the easiest coil at that,
takes me about 5 minutes, tops
for the worst ones
Of course it was at night in the Autozone parking lot
suprised they let you work on it out there for that long
usually it's the coils closest to the firewall, which are the worst to get at alot of times
Seemed like there were 2 dozen things on top of the valve cover.
most of the heat is back there
yea, i hate ford's COP's
Water gets in the front ones on the LS
i have about 20 spares lol
is the ls a dohc?
I think so, I sold it before too long, and it was years ago
my mustang is pretty easy to work on
Too afraid I'd break it. No motor parts were available at the time. crate engines only.
The new ones?
not brand new
previous body style
The LS pretty much became the mustang, IIRC
i've had my motor in and out, swapped the tranny a few times, etc.
I drive old cars now, never had one lay down on me yet. Knock on quality wood.
did a whole drivetrain swap in less time than it took Jymmmmmmmmmm to change his spark plugs lol
With or without a lift?
clytle374: define old?
81 MD diesels
in the driveway
Dropping the engine/trans would have been MUCH easier
Jymmmmmmmmmm: what kind of car
2001 Ford expedition, coil replaced, going on road test now.
ah, same motor as my car.
knew it was a ford v8
shouldnt have been that bad
good luck with the test drive
Hope it wasn't bad fuel;)
Is the EMC HAL the same thing as normal HAL? Not exactly the same, but related?
clytle374: I think it's a proper name for it's function
but then again, define:normal HAL
HAL. The system that handles keyboards, mouse, flashdrives and about every other piece of hardware in Linux systems
It is not bad to deal with but the transition on Gentoo systems was ugly.
One day HAL appeared and my keyboard went crazy. But I was not running the stable tree, and I should have read the messages I got during the upgrade.
ugh, i'm full of metal chips. cleaning machines sucks
Jymmmmmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmmm
the next 'lts' release for *buntu is 10.04. Will there be a precompiled version of EMC available for it?
maybe an EMC3 in the works? :)
yes EMC2 Live CD for 10.04
HM or HSS mills
what is best? :)
well, where does HM shine the most and where does HSS shine the most then ? :)
wear resistance in different materials, strength etc, and sharpness
and coatings help to stop built up edge
like titan coatings etc? :)
here is a pdf to help http://www.archivist.info/12_Lux.pdf
that was stolen from www.hssforum.com
just skimming the file, is the tool lifes exagurated or however that is spelled or does an endmill with TiAICN coating not have a life of longer then 80 minutes of milling? :)
that is actual cutting edge contact time, mostly its cutting air
hmm ok =)
but you find similar numbers for tooling for lathe tools etc
I have had tips last a year of intermittent use that have a life of minutes
MrSunshine: that's correct
Jymmmmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmmm
alex_joni: I'm gonna try something, hang on...
alex_joni: did you get that?
alex_joni: What did it say?
14:09 -MemoServ(MemoServ@services.)- #emc THIS IS A TEST 369
but before that I got a:
14:08 -MemoServ(MemoServ@services.)- You have a new memo from Jymmm (nick: Jymmmmmmmm) (1).
14:08 -MemoServ(MemoServ@services.)- To read it, type /msg MemoServ READ 1
Hmmmm, kinda weird
video card #A latency = 1,000,000
video card #B latency = 1,150,000
and #B used to be less than 10,000
on the same mobo
time to try the other cpu I think
what the heck I'll try the other 3 video cards first
cant work with a cheap puter?
video card #C latency = 1,480,000
this computer is worth $1,000 if you count my time
and $50 if you dont?
I could not even get Ubuntu to load on a Athlon 64x2 4400+ 2.3 GHz with a new mobo
Valen: $0.02 I think
well 8.04 is pretty old
if you want that I'd suggest trying to boot from the 8.04.1 cd installing then adding emc to that
I smoked the original cpu on the mobo and Dan sent me a couple more to test out... could the different cpu cause the spike in latency?
if you smoked the CPU you may have done weird things to other bits of the mbo
~$100 gets you one of those dual core atom mbos
they seem to do the stuff
$50 max will get an old one on ebay. s939 ones go for next to nothing
I'm guessing an amd64 x2 will still beat an atom
4000 latency on ours
only one I've seen better is our dual Xeon 3.06Ghz that ran 2000 latency
both are with SMP kernels
I'm so glad I got my 45w X2 when the exchange rate peaked
low power & noise on a machine tool is slightly irrelevant tho :)
video card #D latency = 583,000
jt-plasma make suere hyperthreading is turned off
where do I turn that off?
video card #D started out at with a latency = 3800
just jumped to 1,200,000
do they have that in an AMD cpu?
in the bios
I dont think AMD do
the cpu in there now is an Athlon MP 2000+ - 2800 maybe too new for the mobo?
the other cpu I have is closer to the original one
nfi, i dont do AMD
MP were designed for dual socket mobos, but I think they work like an XP
can't swear to it tho
dammit. I thought I'd thought of a decent song from the 80s. turns out it's 79
this processor is 1466 MHz a lot like the original one
video card #D starts out at latency = 2400 then jumps to 966,000
8.01 you say :)
fried mobo could have intermittent ram etc
I can swap the ram out and see
its probably the northbridge
if you cooked a CPU, the cpu talks to the northbridge
although depending on the age in an AMD it might talk direct to the ram
oh for the days of 4Mhz circuits. you could realistically diagnose anything to chip level in those days
1 bit ram chips, all in individual sockets :)
jt-plasma ~1ms latency sounds like a SMI thing
MrSunshine: our shop purchases 90% Carbide endmills.
I'm planning a homebuild cnc.
right now I'm asking me what diameter I need for the threaded rods. anyone here has an idea?
My linear slide are about 42 cm (x, y) and 20cm (y). I would like to be able to cut alu.
I was thinking about 12mm or 16mm.
pcw_home: that same board stayed below 10,000 when I ran the latency test from the LiveCD
* jt-plasma looks at SMI ...
the larger the better.
seems SMI is an Intel thing and I'm using AMD
jt-plasma: how are you measuring your video card latency?
by swapping out cards
where are you getting '10,000' from?
this mobo with the original cpu when I tested it with the LiveCD before I took it out and bbq'd the cpu had latency of less than 10,000 when ran for 24 hours
flexxxv what kind of thread?
metric thread is dirt cheap. I'm starting with zinced M8 and a nut cut in 2mm steel. it seems to work
I'm not shure if this is the right word: Trapezoid spindles
I used a automatic translation :/
that's usually called acme thread
I'd go thicker, purely to protect it when things go wrong. If I crash my machine I want my M8 to bend first
thicker then 16mm diameter?
Did I say that I have to save money :D ?
well if 12mm is half the price, I'd go with that :)
* jt-plasma wonders if I didn't wait long enough after boot up before starting the latency test?
M8 is 1/10 the price, so I went with THAT
* jt-plasma wishes there was an elapsed time on the latency test window
I'm only planning on cutting wood and plastic and pcb, so I don't need massive strength
AMD has SMI as well. but if the same motherboard was OK before I dont know whats going on
the latency jumped to 1m then I reset it and it is staying below 6k now
but I started the latency test up as fast as the computer would allow me to
elmo40, hmm ok =)
Maybe theres some hardware startup task that causes the latency spike
is the smi a rather new thing? this mobo is 5-6 years old
at least :)
it is still < 6k atm
I would like to cut alu :D
so just unshure if I should buy 12mm or 16mm..
486 vintage IICRC
flexxxv, "sure" =) i do that mistake often also =)
or is it "unshure" ? :P
* MrSunshine gets confused
open up anything and the cpu gets maxed out :(
I'd go with 12mm, unless you have enormous motors
damm it :D
I'm just unsure if I should get 16mm or 12mm
worst thing that can happen is the threads and nuts will wear out too quickly
flexxxv, hehe like i said i get confused ... dont know :P
i was sure but now im not so sure :P
M8 doesn't seem to cause any drastic friction, and I haven't even greased it yet
build first, upgrade later. that's my system
MattyMatt: how cheap is the M8?
I'm more worried about my motors than my threads. I got old style magnets
M8 was 2.10 gbp (around $3) per metre
jt-plasma: i dont understand how the latency could be so high on a vid card.
elmo, all the latency will be in the driver
assuming the AGP bus isn't so noisy that it causes multiple retries
x-windows would not be my first choice for real time. with our games lib we still have the option for svgalib etc
I don't think it is the video card that is causing but I was testing
MattyMatt: $3/M ? wow, cheap. 12mm was $30? (you said 1/10th)
when you include the cost of the nut, you're probably looking at more than 10:1
the backlash nut?
proper bronze nuts cost as much as the leadscrew usually
but they are worth it.
seems like when I open anything up the cpu maxes out watching it on the system monitor
I'll find out the real worth of my cheap crap first :)
I've got one pre-owned ballscrew unit for one axis. if that's the only axis that moves I'll know I was too cheap
MattyMatt: if you are doing 3-d stuff i suggest the ballscrew to be the Z axis.
but if doing PCB's, not that critical
hmm, having 27 windows open and running glxgears on this computer maxes out the cpu but the latency stays < 10k
do any of your cards have a GPU?
sounds like they are old things.
what's a gpu?
so you are doing glxgears for your latency test?
off and on
and you get 10k or more?
the hardinge computer is the problem one not this one
on the hardinge I get >1M when I open any window
if i don't open a new window it stays < 10k
weak... but two things, glxgears is not a 'benchmark' test AND if you are not using the correct driver for the hardware it will always be high. the 'nv' driver for my card gives me 24k while the nVidia.com driver gives me 1.4k !
the current card in there is a 3dForce FX 5200tv
which is a nvidia
does ubuntu install the nvidia.com driver by default?
FX is tragic with any driver. my 4200Ti is faster (at 3d for sure)
ok, I found some info on wiki on it
jt-plasma: nv driver.
the nvidia.com driver must be installed
and yes, the FX 5200 is a poor choice... the concept behind the older nomenclature for nVidia was (cheap)x100-x400 (middle)x500-x600 (high-end)x800-x900
I didn't find any line that says Driver "nvidia" in the xorg.conf file
meaning, the 5200 is 'x200'
jt-plasma: did you find 'nv' ?
that is the norm for Linux
nothing there at all
for configured video device
under 'Section "Device"'
there is no Driver?
the whole gf5 series is dodgy. it has the first experimental shaders which buys you nothing for 2d work
Identifier"Configured Video Device"
same on this computer
what OS are you using?
on both computers
I presume the X on the emc distro has bare bones window handling. no animations etc
you didnt try 8.04.1 like what Valen said?
probably true, MattyMatt
no "show contents while dragging" even
but i thought it was a 'complete' buntu with the precompiled packages
not yet, still downloading it but that is for the newer AMD mobo
anyone in Ontario?
[16:05:45] <elmo40> http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=185878135
heh :) looks like someone started off cheap, but got a nice Z axis along the way
the pillar made from water pipe, but an alu table with T slots
[16:15:54] <elmo40> http://qurl.org/ew0
a conversion kit. looks nice. no motors, mind you
jt-plasma: maybe you could try an xorg config for vesa, example file:http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/xorg_vesa.conf
8.04.4 is going to take 6 hours to download :/
dgarr: it won't boot with "vesa" in xorg.conf
jt-plasma: try a different mirror
jt-plasma: it's odd that it won't boot with vesa in xorg.conf because X isn't started until most everything is running ( i think)
the only mirror for here is United States...
perhaps I'll try Canada
not any better
faster from this computer it is closer to the tower LOL only 5.75 hours
jt-plasma: did you improve the latency?
no, but I put my old cpu back in just for shits and grins and the damm thing works now, but I still have the latency problem
did you try the other vid card again?
yea, no improvement
jt-plasma: trying to get you a faster DL link
downloading it now
it might be my connection :(
my connection should be 256kbit
I get about 1MB/sec for the US mirror
(from the US)
now it's up to 5-6MB/sec
jt-plasma: import Math;
then try 256/8
I just need to drive to the other shop and download it there
256/8 = 32kByte/sec
so I'm maxed out here
* jt-plasma thinks he will drive to the other shop and download it there where maximum speed cable internet lives
So I'm going to be building a delta robot with three rotary actuators. I would like to direct drive the actuators. I'm looking at low speed (~30 rpm) for now.
Does anybody have a suggestion for what kind of motor would provide low speed and high torque?
Perhaps around 600-1500 oz-in?
the steppers on my mill lol
and definitely slow
what current do you run them at?
delta robot with 1500 oz in? (as in delta robot usually used for pick and place )
i'm using leadshine m880a amps, which can put out 7.8A i think
it's either 45 or 48v, i forgot
Well so direct drive, with a 1 foot arm, that is only about 7.8 lbf.
yea best bet is to gear down sounds like
the arm length is like a lever right, like a force amplifier
I could use a very small motor, like a nema 14 stepper with a planetary gearbox... but then there is backlash and so forth for cheap gearboxes.
geo01005: cogged belt
basic answer to your q: stepper is great for slow speed, fancy servo suck at really low speed, brished dc old timey servos ok at pretty low ( crawl ) speeds
So anyway I have lots of ideas for gearboxes and such.. But I just wondered if there isn't some kind of low speed high torque motors out there.
hydraulic rotary actuators :)
ooodles of torque cheap pumps in scrap yard, just need fedback and 'spool valve control
and oil all over the work bench ;)
what's a workbench without oil? a kitchen table, that's what.
If I'm looking at gear reduction, these motors look perfect: http://www.anahiemautomation.com/products/stepper/stepper-gearmotor-item.php?sID=290&pt=i&tID=77&cID=51
for a delat, you wont get more than 360 degrees in direct drive ( oil mess = bad hydraulics setup ) and so could use pot for feedback
pot feedback = rc servo basicly
Those anaheim gearmotors have 3 degrees of backlash though...
A nema 17 motor with a 10:1 belt reduction would also work well.
predictable backlash can be compensated by software
3 degrees is only .15737" per inch
not my favourite idea but it's possible :)
Backlash will always be a problem if the runtime loads are not known ahead of time.
nice looking units, there are ultra low backlash planetary gear heads, but $$ maybe the 3 drives could cancel out backlash ( fight one another a bit with a bit of offset )
I could bias the arms with a spring.
Yeah, I would like to use this delta robot for a reprap like project. .15737" of error is wayyyy to much.
The hole backlash and complexity problems are why I wanted to go direct drive.
I guess that doing it direct drive mean $$$ servo though.
ok a direct driver stepper sounds good then, low backlash (none) but what does a reprap need for the high force motor?
and huge inefficiency.
servo would be good if the pot is drectly on the axle
There are direct drive torque motors but they are not cheap
(I have one here, a 3 phase maybe 50 pole motor with a 4" hole in the middle)
tom3p, need high force to get reasonable acceleration.
ah, pt taken,
backlash in the motor geartrain won't matter if the pot is direct driven
the deltas do have 'spindly' arms, very very low mass
MattyMatt, it does matter
okeydoke :) i bow to greater experience
Yeah, the thing that makes acceleration a problem is whatever mass you have on the end effector.
i would love to build a robot.
If you have a .5 lb extruder on the end it will require some fairly large torque at the actuator.
existing reprap extruders are quite light
does the workpiece end up having less mass than the extruder ( move it?)
the makerbot extruder is over 2 lb!
You could move the part rather than the extruder...
If I used a direct drive stepper, it would have to be closed loop to get the required resolution.
and then there's the feed spool to consider
do you mount that on the arm or way up in the air?
up in the air.
dont move spool, just feed stock thru air to head
feeding it up the arm would be cool, but obviously trouble
worse than a sewing machine, I bet
I do see a resemblance between repraps and sewing machines tho :)
especially if they provoke luddite rioting
geo01005_home is now known as geo01005
heh if the cloth stood still and the sewing machine zipped around the room
mendel moves the work in 1 axis, the head in 2
(waiting in mendel vid to load)
Most parts would have less mass than the extruder.
that is all for now
geo01005: are you thinking like an soft ice-cream dispenser?
for moving the work under a fixed extruder
[18:12:50] <geo01005> http://imagebin.org/85682
MattyMatt, that is one possibility, I would rather move the extruder though .
Sorry you can't see the joints on the bot, I'm trying to decide if I'm going to patent them or not.
The extruder would go where the aluminum rod is attached to the moving platform.
ah I didn't know what delta robot was. I guessed it was some kind of polar arm
wouldn't that setup have limited range of movement for the size?
Well the bot is about 10" tall, and 15" wide, but has a work area about 6"x6"x6"
watch a delta robot move, you might be surprised.
[18:19:06] <geo01005> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv5B63HeF1E&feature=related
I'd get a Sable 2015 for that size of work, if I had some cash
I've still not seen a prettier machine
only drawback I see with a cartesian box machine is it can't make things as large as itself
an extruder on a polar arm could
OK, that is impressive speed :)
i got a Sable here, its nowhere near the blink speed of that delta
Delta robots are very fast, or they can be.
apparently there was video feedback and analysis in that spinning pyramid stacking movie
so this is a new ~reprap idea, really an extruder moving idea for a rapid prototyping. i cant see quick motion needed, but the 'machine hung from a point' is good (if the point is stable and the delta is stiff enough)
motion that quick would get plastic drips on the walls
Yeah, you don't need really fast motion for reprap (much faster than the sable 2015 though) but the cool thing about the delta is no linear actuators.
As far as I can see, any self replicating robot will never be able to make all of it parts if linear actuators are required.
Rotary actuators are not as hard.
there was a guy in taiwan who built fairly big ( 2x4x1 meter workvolume) mills. he cast the machine base ( 2 cement walls) and dropped basicly a router frame on top of the 2 walls. the z had enough stroke to approach the floor. so the 'machine' was pretty insignificant to the mass you saw
that's how I want to make my friend's garage
its like the 'machine hung from a point' idea
mechmate is pretty similar afaics
yep lotsa router are that way, plasma cuters, water jets...
it makes sense in a domestic room, the way I see it most of the top half of most rooms is wasted
cartesian cleaning robots :)
as long as they dont have 'Genuine People Personalities'
those i-sobot look good for the price. 17 servos
for 80 quid on amazon. I couldn't even buy 17 servos for that
a gantry would be easiest to sleep under afaics. it's harder to sneak up on you with a vertical Z
wah beats my old tomy armatron
demon seed couldn't happen unless she lay still
argh the i-sobot has the voice of the doors in HitchHikers guide
which one? they replaced it with the strict one, but that was worse :)
"glad to be of service" :)
robots won't be ready for domestic service until they're tough enough to take a few kicks
hacker will love this, cooler than furby
ah $289 seems more realistic
even without a cam in the head, that's a lot of servos
the 80 quid one must have been heavily shop-worn
i watched a japanese video form 2007 with it, it fell fwd, did pushups, splits, and righted itself, all to music (couldve been dubbed but the action was syncrhonous )
but still. it just needs tilt to go with pan. a cam, and a proper cpu and you've got sth as good as an Aibo
Sony were a bit dumb to give up when they did
they just had a bad year
do you watch the Robocup matches? the biped category are all similar to i-sobot, if a bit larger
everything is just waiting for decent AI now
bipedal locomotion is a solved problem
I heard an interesting comment from Honda that Asimo's ankles helped them make better anti-lock brakes for their cars
yea, it uses the same sized brakes in the robot as they do in their cars
I hope they start mass producing Asimos soon, instead of waiting until AI is ready.
what would you use it for?
last I heard they were still $.25m
i'm pretty sure they'll be programed as communist spies
well I'd use it to dev the AI
guys i was going to build an atom/gecko cnc controller
that's why the invented simulators
but irs says my tax return will take 3 more weeks
that's why the invented credit cards
credit cards are for tards
haha yesterday i watched a tokyo report on mini farms mad eout of shipping containers with led grow lights. the japanese had offers from china but were afraid of loosing the technology thru copying ( what comes around... )
what if gov decides to delay again
then i will be burning up moneys
tom3p: i got led grow lights in my closet!
all I need to dev the AI is stereo cameras on pan & tilt with focus and iris, and an arm or two so "baby" can play with toys
fix your w4 so this doesn't happen again
hmmm, when can i visit ( old closet farmer hippy )
farms in containers is old tech :) the police dig them up all the time
why are you getting a large refund, adjust the withholding so it doesn't happen again
i dunno why because im special
anyway i bet it was that an hero in the cessna
and hopefully closet grow expands soon i want to move into warehouse space
already sick of having a CNC in my dining room 6ft from the front door
people prob walk by in the hallway like OMFG WHATS HE BUILDING IN THERE
it was japans contention that portable farms could benefit areas that needed fresh produce or areas that were arid, and the product would compete price wise just because of fuel/transport savings
its kinda funny its news, tho
sorta like rep rap, de-centralized production
closet and container grows is like, old tech
I've worried about my hobbies drawing the wrong kind of interest.
so, if you had a reprap, and wanted to make things besides... repraps, what would you make?
guys does that water soluble oil break back down into water and oil after awhile?
i should maybe clean up those chips
never found out, it got stinky way before it separated
tom3p: a grad student in our lab was getting a rapid prototyping outfit to make plastic robot parts
renesis: I have a friend that adds someting to it to break it down. Then he adjusts the ph of the water before disposing. Oil goes to a waste oil heater
i just dont want it to seperate and dump water all over my machine
I was aware of rapid prototyping before that, but it really turned on a light in my head. considering a plastic part costs $25k+ for the first one.
FDM machine stuff isnt so hawt, structurally
what is fdm?
some deposit machine i think
i dont remember, basically cnc gluegun
this used a deposit technology, but it was plenty strong for our needs
like making shit out of .01" blocks of glue
yeah it doesnt just fall apart
but its like, crumbly kinda
back, anyone seen anonimasu recently?
basically, it was a custom case for a gumstix and some other circuit boards
we had one at exjob, we used it to model tweeter horns mostly
it would have been a real pain to do it by hand
wonder if it is cheaper to use deposit methods instead of just mamchining out blocks of material
funny thing is, he was trying to save space. You can't make any suggestions that would use more space or he has a short fit of rage :)
you can do undercuts and things that would take extra setups
tom3p, he was around this morning
I think our parts would have taken at least 4 setups if not more
and custom fixturing
sounds like a fun night
you can fly through plastics
mmmmmm delrin nomnomnomnomnom
archivist: thx i need some TNC info
"Crowdsourced manufacturing" new buzz word for cottage industry
a crowd of one each
on low pay
there are a few methods for rapid prototype. Starch based, Plastic 'printer' style, Laser sintering, Lithography...
some are expensive, others not so much
i have seen a machine that makes their prototypes out of variable-firmness plastic. they modeled a car and the wheels were spongy while the body was solid.
the wheels even rotated!
amazing technology these days :)
prototypes not useful for real work
hence the term prototype.
they claimed to have fully functional prototypes.
able to be used in 'real-life' situations.
they made a shell for a cordless drill. put a real motor and batteries in it. worked well. felt strong. didnt want to drop it to see how it would handle it, though ;)
we would do FDM tweeter and midrange horns and test them that day
we could redo them, take more polar plots, have them tweeked in a couple days
with a machine that was under 20K
like, for that cost we could have maybe shopped out 3 different horn designs
and there would have prob been an extra week of haggling and shipping involved each time
so i dunno if development counts as real work but that goofy cnc gluegun prob saved exjob like $100K over 6 months
they are becoming less expensive.
the trade show had 2 different types from $18k to $25k
then a real expensive one for $75. dont know why so much, though. It used the laser sintering.
the 18k was basically a 3D plastic-jet printer :P
decided to take the servo apart.. The commutator was really bad
* frallzor loves his adhesive paper
why buy e-stop signs when you can print them
[20:14:26] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servo/rotor3.JPG
[20:14:33] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servo/rotor1.JPG
[20:17:26] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servo/rotor.JPG
[20:18:14] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servo/commutator.JPG
hmm, how the hell to mill small tapers on stuff i mill when i only have 3 axis? :/
[20:18:38] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servo/brushholder.JPG
[20:19:49] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/servo/stator.JPG
MrSunshine, support at an angle, sine bar
huh ? :)
would be easy enough if i had a forth axis
tho then i would need to get a new cam software i guess :P
needs a little cleanup... ;)
get an older workshop book and look up sine bar and its use
i think he wants a round taper
I think he is milling :)
im making a aluminium casting pattern
so need an about 2 - 3 degree angle on the sides and inside
[20:25:02] <frallzor> http://pici.se/p/NRSDLGZnj/
am I missing something? besides the button there is a hole for :P (reset)
is it a conical?
use a taper endmill designed for the job
tom3p, needs to be a bit tapered to be able to release from the molding sand
archivist, there is taper endmills? :)
^^^ wha archivist said
is the coke to clean the stator?
just for scale...
there is lots and lots of carbon in this one..
can you taper ordenary endmills or are they sharpened in a special way? :)
measuring 13K or less to ground
like release edges etc
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-02-20.txt
skunkworks: brake cleaner is good
gah cant find the name for "tapered ballnose mill" in swedish :/
i can find alot of american but its all in inches!
i hate sweden :/
in america its like a billion companies that sell stuff, in sweden its maybe one .. and that is realy realy expnsive
start an engineering supplier business then
or just modell the thing with draft and 3D-mill it
done that many times on my old mill
archivist, its LOADS of stuff i would like to sell that is realy hard to get in sweden but hell i would have to buy a big warehouse for that :P
frallzor, with just straight endmills? :)
and "draft" ?
is that the same thing?
draft is the word for release angle
straight mills for roughing, ball mills for the final runs
as good as good can be
frallzor, but i dont even have ballend :/
would be neatest if i had a 2 degree tapered ballmill and just can mill everything, would be alot faster im guessing =)
aye will as soon as i get money
frallzor, know any good place to buy at? :)
many cheap there
gotten most of my there
everyfucking thing there is in inches also :/
no it is not
the one that thought of "inch" system should be shot, hanged left to dry then revived and skinned alive
well just doing a fast search on "ballnose mill" ends me up with 2 pages with inch system ballnose endmills
add mm to your search
whatya up to ries? =)
0 results found for ballnose mill mm
[20:58:10] <archivist> http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=ballnose+mill
one in 6 are inch the rest are metric
woohoo, biggest one there was 1.5mm :P
[20:58:45] <frallzor> http://cgi.ebay.com/8-MM-BALL-NOSE-MILLING-CUTTER-HSCO-BALLNOSE-L-S-UK_W0QQitemZ120400335881QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item1c086b5409
that will do me much good :P
[21:00:44] <MrSunshine> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-New-5mm-EndMill-End-Mill-HSS-2-FL-Ballnose-5004_W0QQitemZ300390443478QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45f0aa69d6
wasnt to bad of a price? :)
[21:01:12] <alex_joni> http://cgi.ebay.de/Hartmetall-Fraesstift-KUGEL-Form-D-20-mm-6-mm-Schaft_W0QQitemZ330404862206QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFr%C3%A4sen?hash=item4cedaa18fe#ht_1226wt_1165
Jymmmmmmmm is now known as Jymmmmmmm
Jymmmmmmm: did the coil fix it?
or are you still angry Jymmmmmmm
yep, thank goodness
those things are a headache
and not cheap
i wish they still had the coil packs like the 98 and older 4.6/5.4's
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-02-20.txt
my ranger has the same coilpacks and never had a problem, any well over 180k on it
I had swapped #8 (that was throwing the code) with #1 (which is the easiest to remove). After that, cleared the codes, drove around till another code was thrown, and moved to Cyl #1. $42 for the coilpack
All i know, is the code reader just paid for itself.
i have a shoebox full of coils
2.5 motor's worth
i am trying to figure out how to change the direction my z-axis moves
it is backwards
aa-danimal-shop: just ship 7 to me =)
cnc_: change the sign of SCALE
? in the stepconfig
Jymmmmmmm: i dunno, you threatened to beat me up yesterday :)
cnc_: Is SCALE = 1234, change it to SCALE = -1234
ill try bbiab
Jymmmmmmm: I'll give you a hand on that
aa-danimal-shop: No I didn't, it was to beat your ass, and not a threat, but a promise =)
I'll hold him, you beat him, then we switch
alex_joni: Works for me.
I'm sure aa-danimal-shop will favour the change in style
This is cool... http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/19/william-shatner-lands-a-tweet-deal/?hpt=Sbin
you guys can try, but i'm probably the only one in here that was a professional athlete :)
aa-danimal-shop: That's no problem, I'm an amateur marksman with 1000 rounds of ammo
aa-danimal-shop: I'll just practice till I get it right
as in .. chess player?
cross country mountain biking
* alex_joni used to play volley in a local team
ages ago :D
ahhh there was an invert button... that fixed it
hmm.. sounds like fun
can be fun, but i got burned out
aa-danimal-shop: I once drove my bike to our mountain house.. about 150km (1km up)
too much training
next day back
whats that in miles?
100 or so?
thats a good little pedal
This is the tweet they're taking about http://twitter.com/shitmydadsays
most i ever did was a race in Brian Head, Utah. 100 miles (161km) with 14,000 feet of accent (4.3km) all at 10,000-12,000 feet elevation
Yeah, you KNEW you better add that "on trails" part
riding a single speed bike :)
...in a hurricane
it did hail
it hailed enough to accumilate
just enough to cover the grass
Well, god thing you had mountain tires with nobbies and not those thing-than-shit tres with no tread
ah fsck it, learn to read typo !
mine were fairly poor excuse for nobbies
aa-danimal-shop: What? sheet metal screws?
kenda small block 8's
lotsa little knobs, really close together
fast rolling tires, but not so good for mud
"Can we talk later? The news is on... Well, if you have tuberculosis it's not gonna get any worse in the next 30 minutes, jesus."
[21:28:48] <aa-danimal-shop> http://www.cambriabike.com/Images/product/kenda_small_block_8.jpg
[21:29:46] <Jymmmmmmm> http://www.kevinscycleracing.com/images/tires/09%20deep%20snow%20spike%20tire%20.jpg
that looks painfull
so - does anyone know if you need to carve the epoxy out between each commutator?
“Yes I got him a gift. He had a kidney stone. You piss a rock through your pecker, you deserve more than just a pat on the fucking back."
Jymmmmmmm: we used to run studded tires in the winter when i lived in CT
[21:32:42] <alex_joni> http://www.kevinscycleracing.com/images/tires/09%20deep%20snow%20spike%20close%20up.jpg
aa-danimal-shop: Was that when you were a hoodlem running the dirt roads too?
less dirt roads in CT than there are in San Diego
whats a liberal hippie from the bay area like yourself doing with guns?
cant wait for the new coolant tank to show up.
my coolant is more rust than lubricant at this point
aa-danimal-shop: Nto political, not a hippie,
aa-danimal-shop: I drive an SUV, not some damn green car
i'm starting to get more green
like i bring my own bags to go grocery shopping
Danimal-office: I use soap, not live in the SC Mnts with no utilities
but i'm sure as hell not giving up my v8 mustang
unless it's for a corvette
Danimal-office: Make it elecric
Jymmmmmmm: i'd like to convert my truck
but the problem is range
[21:46:18] <Jymmmmmmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej_jwDpfDBI
gainest a corvette http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBTU2FUygKk&NR=1
Jymmmmmmm: i dont drive often, but when i do, it's at least 100 miles
Danimal-office: Well, 100MPH or 100 Miles - your choice =)
I'm sure they have some nice bat packs now
Jymmmmmmm: that looked like a camaro
my friend imports electric scooters from china, and he's doing tons of research on electric vehicles.
[21:50:32] <Jymmmmmmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MN989kHCLo&feature=related
he's got a few scooters that'll do highway speeds
You'ld be a dumbass todo 40mph+ on a scooter
well that's a 96 corvette. that wasnt exactly their flagship
try a 2010 zr1
[21:51:49] <Jymmmmmmm> http://www.microscooter.org.uk/micro-scooter/micro_scooter_bullet_1.jpg
i'm talking about the motorcycle type of scooter, not those things
you mean a moped
[21:52:47] <Danimal-office> http://www.treehugger.com/scooter-electric-rndp03.jpg
similar to that
glorified moped, but still a moped =)
[21:53:19] <Danimal-office> http://www.nogasamerica.com/
that's his site, and him on the scooter
yeah, ppl just dont liek the term moped, but that's exactly what they are =)
hmm i have to find out who that model is on the other scooter :)
Jymmmmmmm: a moped is pedal assisted
Not all of them were.
though they all were gas powered
gas powered with pedal assist to start them or when you cant make it up a hill
scooters are usually bigger than mopeds
[21:56:22] <Danimal-office> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.southdacola.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/tfr.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.southdacola.com/blog/2009/02/stimulate-your-moped-thru-opening-a-casino/&usg=__wClt065_3FkpTuVKzhixXLSmSKY=&h=336&w=382&sz=74&hl=en&start=16&itbs=1&tbnid=kw07xp4xWMBvOM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmoped%26hl%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1
thats a moped
holy giant link batman
8.04.4 is installing on this funny little mobo with the Athlon 64x2 2.3GHz cpu after drilling and tapping new holes
what a holy mounting plate it is now
skunkworks_: The commutator bars has to be above the level of the epoxy or whatever bedding material they used in the commutator. Undercutting the plastic/epoxy/phenolic etc is very common. My father in law got a patent for coming up with a novel solution on how to do that with Ford Motor Co. Ironically I forget the solution. I think that most people use a chunk of hacksaw blade...
...to do it if it can fit. I'd run a stone on the side of the hacksaw blade to take the edges off the side of the teeth to avoid cutting the copper. That servo motor was really gummed up! Geez!
you dont need a spindle encoder to do constant surface speed on a lathe, do you?
I like this one... "Son, people will always try and fuck you. Don't waste your life planning for a fucking, just be alert when your pants are down."
This is pretty good too... "You're gonna run into jerk offs. But remember, it's not the size of the asshole you worry about, it's how much shit comes out of it."
who was looking at delta robots? ( dumped scrollback, sorry ) http://hackaday.com/2009/09/07/arduino-powered-delta-robot/
uses stock rc servos and what looks like rc helicopter linkages
Dave911: that is what we are using (hacksaw blade) going pretty fast
[22:52:00] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv5B63HeF1E&feature=player_embedded#
that is _fast_
that one is very fast
anyone know if you need a spindle encoder to use CSS on a lathe?
Danimal-office: I believe you don't
you can use CSS without feedback, or with simple at-speed feedback
i didnt think so, just making sure.
thanks, and goodnight
Danimal-office: Wake your ass up and get back to work slave!
i am working!
just cut my first titanium cog on my cnc lathe
worked very well, just gotta change a chamfer a little and i'm good to go
aa-danimal-shop: No, you're screwing around on irc! NO GRUL FOR YOU!
i was worried a little since they are cut from 4" diamter material
which is a bit big for the hardinge
but it worked great
CSS seems to work without a spindle encoder, but IPR feed doesnt
aa-danimal-shop: GREAT! Now, make what I'm thinking, and dont bother asking for details damnit! I expect it done by tuesday!
i already know what it is
Ok... impress me.
a double ended dildo
i got my dog spayed yesterday, i hate having her in that stupid cone
jt-plasma: doing any more vid card testing?
I'm cooking sausage soup and updating 8.04.4
i am still concidering this home made unit. i figure starting from a working router and making it into a mill would be less ambitious ;) http://tinyurl.com/home-cnc
so you managed to grab 8.04.4?
5hrs later? ;)