#emc | Logs for 2010-02-04

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[00:32:09] <frallzor> hey boys
[00:32:23] <frallzor> anyone using a pmdx and knows if the ribbon cable for db25 is standard?
[00:38:42] <WalterN> danimal_garage: mind if I ask how old you are?
[00:41:55] <frallzor> steves_logging ya here? :)
[00:49:22] <frallzor> noone knows? :)
[00:55:07] <jt-plasma> frallzor: I don't even know what pmdx is :)
[00:55:22] <frallzor> www.pmdx.com
[00:55:43] <frallzor> steves_logging makes them if I recall right
[00:56:15] <frallzor> its a nice set of break out boards
[00:57:19] <frallzor> http://www.pmdx.com/Images/DB25Ribbon.jpg does this look like a non standard cable?
[00:59:04] <jt-plasma> the db 25 end looks normal and the other end seems normal
[00:59:22] <frallzor> when ordering a I missed the bob itself only carries centronics connector
[01:00:46] <frallzor> so I just ordered a http://www.itpaket.se/images/bracket-4.jpg
[01:01:02] <frallzor> they seem pretty similar besides the bracket
[01:01:19] <jt-plasma> looks the same to me
[01:01:33] <frallzor> great
[01:01:56] <PCW_> PCW_ is now known as PCW
[01:07:55] <Valen> looks normal to me too
[01:08:19] <frallzor> hopefully it isnt some odd homemade pinout =)
[01:08:50] <Valen> doesn't look it
[01:09:00] <frallzor> goodie, then Im set =)
[01:10:28] <Valen> just make sure you get it all the right way around
[01:10:40] <frallzor> ??
[01:11:38] <Valen> pin 1 on the IDC lines up with pin 1 on the plug
[01:11:50] <frallzor> ah
[01:11:58] <frallzor> if its marked clearly I can check
[01:12:12] <frallzor> never know
[01:12:33] <Valen> are you trying to replace an existing cable or make a new one?
[01:12:58] <frallzor> trying to get one that works since I didnt get one with it
[01:13:08] <frallzor> only centronics on the board
[01:13:17] <frallzor> but I want DB25 due to placement
[01:13:38] <Valen> centronics is 50 pin isnt it?
[01:14:05] <frallzor> centronics >db25 =)
[01:14:33] <Valen> ?
[01:14:44] <frallzor> no idea how many pins
[01:15:09] <frallzor> but its only as many as in db25 needed from it
[01:17:26] <frallzor> if I use that little connectors I asked about I can place it a bit more freely instead of needing to have the board where the connector have to be
[01:23:57] <frallzor> oh well, its late here so GN =)
[01:25:17] <Tome> Tome is now known as Guest21737
[01:26:29] <Guest21737> hello PJM
[01:27:51] <Guest21737> ?
[01:30:14] <Guest21737> whois NickName
[01:30:29] <Guest21737> host
[01:55:12] <tome9999> whois
[01:56:03] <tome9999> who
[02:11:38] <tome9999> tome9999 is now known as celery
[02:11:55] <celery> celery is now known as tome9999
[02:21:52] <tome9999> hello
[02:22:12] <skunkworks> hello
[02:22:36] <tome9999> does anyone here use the Mesa cards in a controller (specifically the 7I43)?
[02:23:08] <cradek> lots of us use mesa stuff - go ahead and ask the real question
[02:23:21] <tome9999> oh...where to begin...
[02:24:01] <tome9999> I am a novice (in irc as well as machining) so please go easy on my stupid questions
[02:24:07] <cradek> (my machines have 5i20)
[02:24:42] <tome9999> I am rebuilding an old EMCO F1 and was looking to use Bob Campbell's Combo Board
[02:25:06] <cradek> I think I know what an EMCO F1 is, but I don't know who Bob Campbell is
[02:26:02] <tome9999> But, I want to have limit switches, encoders, a bi-directional
[02:26:21] <tome9999> spindle motor...
[02:26:33] <cradek> it's a stepper motor machine, right?
[02:26:37] <tome9999> www.campbelldesigns.net
[02:26:55] <tome9999> Yes, it will be a stepper motor machine (when rebuilt)
[02:27:02] <cradek> in that case, the only encoder you might need is a jog wheel
[02:27:06] <tome9999> Will have 23-370 (NEMA motors)
[02:27:17] <cradek> limit switches are always good
[02:28:29] <tome9999> was planning to use 102-1308-ND (digi key part number) encoders
[02:29:10] <tome9999> I want to have isolation on the limit switches, etc
[02:29:34] <tome9999> I saw a web page by user (here) PJM - Paul who uses 3 different Mesa cards to do something similar
[02:30:54] <tome9999> The campbell design combo board can drive the motor controller (with an isolated varying DC voltage)
[02:32:05] <tome9999> So if I go with the Mesa solution, I need to find a way to accomplish this part of what I am losing from the combo board...
[02:35:10] <tome9999> BTW, I am going to use the KB electronics KBPB-125 motor controller for the spindle motor...
[02:36:52] <cradek> I think there is a 7i43 firmware that gives some step/dir outputs and some pwm/dir. but the pwm would not be isolated.
[02:42:14] <tome9999> according to the motor controller info (http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbpb_manual.pdf) I need an isolated variable voltage of 0-9VDC.
[02:42:50] <Valen> the isolation is just to protect things
[02:43:09] <Valen> easiest way to get variable voltage is just to use the mesa variable voltage card
[02:43:20] <tome9999> Oh, which card is that?
[02:43:27] <Valen> no idea lol
[02:43:33] <Jymmm> a bunch of 1.5V batteries
[02:43:41] <Valen> I believe it gives 4 +-10v outputs from PWM inputs
[02:44:06] <Valen> if you are wanting to do a stepper machine then your best off just using a stepper driver that'll take step+dir inputs
[02:44:17] <Valen> otherwise do a servo system if you want encoders
[02:44:44] <Valen> steppers with an analog input to the driver seems like its mixing a whole bunch of different things with no real benifit
[02:45:13] <tome9999> No, the analog (variable voltage) is for the spindle motor control, not the steppers
[02:45:18] <tome9999> Sorry if I wasn't clear
[02:45:36] <tome9999> The steppers are on X,Y,Z,A and I will use the 7I43 to drive those
[02:45:56] <tome9999> The spindle motor is a DC motor
[02:46:12] <Valen> ahh, makes more sense
[02:57:16] <Valen> is it +ve only input that you need?
[03:01:24] <tome9999> Not sure what you mean by +ve?
[03:01:40] <WalterN> http://i.imgur.com/1gF1j.jpg hehe
[03:02:15] <tome9999> The motor controller info says: All models can be controlled with an isolated analog reference voltage (0-9VDC) in lieu of the main speed potentiometer.
[03:02:40] <tome9999> The control output voltage will linearily follow the input voltage.
[03:02:54] <tome9999> The source impedance of the input should be 10k ohms or less.
[03:04:36] <tome9999> I see the 7I37 board has 8 outputs. Can the voltage be controlled on those?
[03:07:26] <john_f_> tome9999: for analog outputs you want the 7I33
[03:07:46] <john_f_> but these will not be galvanicaly isolated
[03:08:21] <SWPadnos> the 7i37 is a digital I/O card, so no, you can't control the voltage on the outputs (they're like open or closed switches)
[03:10:37] <tome9999> The 7I33 is a servo control board. Should I look for something other then a Mesa board to accomplish this?
[03:11:24] <john_f_> Maybe, you only need 1 analog output
[03:11:42] <john_f_> the 7i33 provides 4 outputs
[03:12:01] <john_f_> but also has encoder inputs if you need that
[03:13:54] <SWPadnos> you could try one of the DigiSpeed devices from http://www.homanndesigns.com/
[03:14:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: WH =)
[03:14:20] <SWPadnos> note though that the digital I/Os on the 7i37 aren't all that fasy
[03:14:30] <SWPadnos> thanks
[03:14:43] <SWPadnos> looks like it's off to Dallas next week for the Slam Dunk competition
[03:14:55] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: whatcha doin there?
[03:15:06] <SWPadnos> um, the Slam Dunk competition ...
[03:15:17] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: as a player?
[03:15:23] <SWPadnos> yeah, sure ;)
[03:15:33] <SWPadnos> we'll be shooting the dunks
[03:15:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 360?
[03:15:44] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:15:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Not the same system as the grammys is it?
[03:16:07] <SWPadnos> then it's (probably) off to Miami for the Latin Grammys
[03:16:09] <SWPadnos> yes, it is
[03:16:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: same company?
[03:16:39] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:17:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: well, cool. Where in Latin America you going?
[03:17:18] <SWPadnos> Miami ;)
[03:17:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, that sucks
[03:17:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: RIO baby, RIO
[03:18:17] <SWPadnos> the really fun part is that I leave Miami on the 19th, which is the same day I'm leaving for Green Bay, so we can pick up relatives so we can go to ... wait for it ... Orlando on vacation
[03:18:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: what do you mean by "pick up"?
[03:18:56] <SWPadnos> so I'll literally walk off the plane in Burlington, say hi to my wife (who will have my boarding pass), and walk right back on the same plane :)
[03:19:38] <SWPadnos> well, we're bringing my sister-in-law and her son with us, and since they've never flown before, we're going to get them in Wisconsin, and we'll all travel down together
[03:19:54] <Jymmm> GET THEM?
[03:20:05] <SWPadnos> uh, yeah
[03:20:26] <Jymmm> They can't walk in a plane by themselves? or jsut the wifey?
[03:21:00] <SWPadnos> they have never had to deal with airports, transfers, Chicago (where they have to change planes), security, luggage restrictions ...
[03:21:14] <SWPadnos> so it's nicer for us to help them out
[03:21:24] <Jymmm> And the Wifey cant' do this?
[03:22:10] <SWPadnos> she could, but our tickets are on the same reservation
[03:22:27] <SWPadnos> and we're all on the same reservation from Green Bay to Orlando
[03:22:27] <Jymmm> Every heard the word REFUND?
[03:22:38] <SWPadnos> yeah, ever heard it in the same sentence as an airline?
[03:22:56] <Jymmm> lol, once or twice.
[03:23:01] <SWPadnos> how recently?
[03:23:05] <SWPadnos> :)
[03:23:27] <Jymmm> 1542
[03:23:39] <SWPadnos> ah, DaVinci airlines?
[03:23:49] <SWPadnos> they canceled a lot of flights, I hear
[03:24:25] <Jymmm> Well, I guess you didn't get a REAM ME NOW ticket
[03:24:55] <SWPadnos> it's a pre-reamed ticket
[03:25:43] <Jymmm> ah
[03:26:11] <Jymmm> Well, you could just never get off the plane
[03:26:26] <Jymmm> That would be interesting
[03:26:41] <SWPadnos> it doesn't really matter, I won't be in the same seat anyway
[03:26:55] <SWPadnos> at least it's unlikely
[03:26:57] <Jymmm> ?
[03:27:11] <SWPadnos> and I won't have any checked bags, so I don't have to leave the secure area
[03:27:20] <Jymmm> cool
[03:27:21] <Jymmm> bbiab
[03:27:24] <SWPadnos> see you
[03:40:53] <tom3p> is Log() what this gnome calculator means when it says Ln() ?
[03:43:16] <SWPadnos> ln is natural log, which is less ambiguous than log (which could be baase e or base 10)
[03:45:39] <tom3p> yah makes sense ( after i tried a few examples )
[03:55:47] <tom3p> the PIC pwm calcs for duty cycle vary with frequency, there's fewer choices at higher freq and more with lower freq. the number of choices is calculated by using LogN() to determine how many bits of rez. thx.
[03:56:56] <SWPadnos> are you using actual pulse width, or doing averaging?
[04:01:27] <ries> hey Guys, can I disable the home button after I homes the machine? I keep finding myself pressing the home axis button instead of teh touch off button
[04:01:51] <ries> Or... can I tell axis to ask me 'Are you sure...... bla bla already homed' ?
[04:13:34] <tom3p> SWPadnos: actual width ( calculated, havent scoped) , its easier than i thought
[04:13:56] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is back!
[04:14:09] <SWPadnos> ether way is easy enough, but you get easier filtering with the higher frequency averaging-only mode
[04:14:21] <SWPadnos> and it's slightly easier in the calculation department as well
[04:14:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Can I bug you?
[04:14:46] <SWPadnos> you already do
[04:14:47] <SWPadnos> err, sure
[04:15:04] <Jymmm> Well, i meant more than usual
[04:15:18] <SWPadnos> oh. well not for too long, I'm heading to bed soon
[04:17:28] <tom3p> SWPadnos: averaging mode? for PIC PWM? filtering? I want crisp square waves to trigger sparks. i think we're on different ideas
[04:17:39] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[04:17:43] <tom3p> have a good nights rest :)
[04:17:48] <SWPadnos> you want a spark of a certain duration
[04:17:55] <SWPadnos> thanks
[04:20:22] <tom3p> i wish i could get the pwm to be triggerable each time (that'd be 'iso-energetic), wait for the spark to occur, THEN begin the on time, rather than... i hope the current flows as soon as i turn on the pulse( but that wouldnt be pwm, it'd be triggered pulses )
[10:19:17] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[11:18:52] <Valen> evenin
[12:23:28] <tome9999> Is PJM there?
[12:25:40] <pjm> hello
[12:26:14] <tome9999> hi
[12:26:39] <tome9999> I found your web page with info on the Mesa 7I43 and a couple other cards and had some questions for you
[12:28:10] <pjm> ok fire away
[12:28:18] <pjm> i am not in any way an expert
[12:28:43] <tome9999> well, i see you have using three of their cards, so that makes you an expert ;-)
[12:29:30] <tome9999> I am rebuilding an old Emco F1 mill with steppers with encoders, limit switches, etc.
[12:30:07] <tome9999> It has a DC spindle motor that I am going to control from a KB Electronics KBPB-125
[12:30:23] <pjm> ok
[12:30:58] <tome9999> I guess my specific questions are: The 7I43 does not provide isolation, is that correct?
[12:31:15] <pjm> as in isolated I/O pins?
[12:31:20] <tome9999> Yes
[12:31:30] <pjm> you need the additional daughter board for that
[12:31:46] <pjm> it has something like 16 opto isolated inputs, and 8 isolated outputs
[12:31:59] <tome9999> Is that the purpose of the 7I37TA?
[12:32:44] <tome9999> If so, what is the purpose of the 7I42 that you use?
[12:32:58] <pjm> yes that right re 7i37
[12:33:39] <pjm> the 7i42 is for the logic level stuff, so TTL drives out to stepper drive boards, I/O from encoder pendant, etc
[12:34:13] <pjm> There are additional buttons etc that also hook up to that card, as well as the limit switches etc
[12:34:35] <tome9999> Why couldn't this be connected to the 7143?
[12:35:02] <pjm> well you could solder the wires directly to the IO pins of the 7i43 board
[12:35:21] <pjm> but for the sake of 20-30 $ u get a nice terminal block IO card with io protection
[12:35:51] <pjm> or at least it was cheap enough to not be worth home brewing an IO card
[12:36:11] <tome9999> Sorry, I mean why not connect the limit switches through the 7I37 (then to the 7I43)?
[12:37:38] <pjm> well you could do that too
[12:37:58] <pjm> if they need to be isolated for whatever reason
[12:38:25] <tome9999> It just seemed like the 7I42 was not needed, assuming you had enough I/O available on the ..37
[12:38:43] <tome9999> I was trying to understand why you had both
[12:39:16] <pjm> 'future expansion' ;-)
[12:39:26] <tome9999> Gotcha :-)
[12:39:37] <pjm> i didnt want to order the bare minimum etc then find i needed another card
[12:39:45] <pjm> so thought i may as well order what i might need
[12:39:59] <pjm> you could probably stuff everything onto the 7i42
[12:40:15] <pjm> the IO protection is worth having in my opinion
[12:40:21] <tome9999> makes sense
[12:40:28] <pjm> just to save the fgpa from seeing nasty transients etc
[12:41:02] <renesis> serious fpga are expensive
[12:41:16] <tome9999> I also need something to provide isolate variable voltage (0-9VDC) to my KBPB motor controller
[12:41:17] <renesis> caps and diodes and even TVS/MOV things arent
[12:41:34] <tome9999> Understood re fpga
[12:41:55] <pjm> tome9999 is there any other methods of driving your motor controller other than variable voltage?
[12:42:12] <tome9999> no, the KBPB (which I already have) does that.
[12:42:30] <tome9999> Someone last night mentioned the DC-03 DigiSpeed GX V3
[12:42:43] <tome9999> looks like it will work, but I wondered if there was a Mesa solution
[12:42:58] <tome9999> not that I am married to mesa or anything ;-)
[12:43:03] <pjm> well in the 7i43 you could use a pwm generator for a start
[12:43:23] <tome9999> Yes, that will provide the signal from EMC
[12:43:28] <pjm> then a R/C filter and an op-amp to give you your 0 to 9v
[12:43:47] <pjm> should be pretty simple
[12:44:10] <tome9999> Hmm, didn't think about that.
[12:44:54] <tome9999> But I will want isolation on that too, so it may have to be a little more then that...
[12:45:17] <pjm> ok weoo u can isolate it at the logic state out of the mesa card
[12:45:37] <pjm> with an optoisolator in the PWM line
[12:46:13] <tome9999> ok, sure.
[12:46:43] <pjm> or i guess in fact you could use the 7i37 isolated output, connect isolated transistor output to +12v or so, R/C filter and potted down to 9v
[12:47:24] <tome9999> Yes, if I am using the 7I37, I might as well use it!
[12:47:55] <tome9999> Cool, thanks for the info and advice!
[12:48:23] <tome9999> As I get more details I may have some more specific questions on getting the 7I43, etc working
[12:48:52] <tome9999> As you say it is a bit daunting at first...
[12:51:14] <pjm> yeah i came from parport step gen so moving to the 7i43 needed a new mindset
[12:51:24] <pjm> but once it clicks into place its actually a piece of cake
[12:51:39] <pjm> and the overall performance improvement is brilliant
[12:52:06] <pjm> you should also add a spindle encoder of good resolution, since the 7i43 has a fast counter clock
[12:52:21] <tome9999> Yes, I was going to do a spindle encoder
[12:52:25] <pjm> and its nice to have on-screen spindle speed that u can tie into a pid loop with commanded speed etc
[12:52:38] <tome9999> I need to figure out where I can put it on my spindle, may be a challange
[12:52:43] <pjm> in that case u can just rip my configs and they'll work
[12:52:47] <tome9999> I also want it to control tapping
[12:53:04] <pjm> perfect, that is exactly what i use it for on my mill
[12:53:24] <tome9999> do you mention which encoder you use (on your web page)?
[12:57:04] <tome9999> got to run to take kids to school, back in a while. Thanks again for your help!
[12:58:04] <pjm> ok
[15:59:27] <skunkworks_> heh - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umf4dDzK7fI
[16:00:05] <skunkworks_> very anti-cnc... You can do it just as good with a manual lathe and cnc is way to expensive. (he rants a bit)
[16:01:09] <toastydeath> even for one thread I have thrown a collet in a cnc
[16:01:17] <toastydeath> the surface speeds just mean the threads come out that much nicer
[16:01:45] <skunkworks_> I have done enough manual threading to lothe it.
[16:01:49] <skunkworks_> lothe?>
[16:01:58] <SWPadnos> +a
[16:01:59] <toastydeath> yeah
[16:02:00] <SWPadnos> loathe
[16:02:15] <toastydeath> manual threading is annoying at best
[16:03:08] <cradek> I think he can't get proper thread shape with that back rake
[16:03:20] <cradek> threading tool should be flat on top
[16:03:45] <skunkworks_> our main lathe - Monarch - makes it pretty easy.. but still. (depth stops and shutoffs)
[16:08:14] <cradek> heh, he rants that the cnc guy doesn't check his thread, but then his idea of a check is to see if a nut goes on it
[16:09:18] <skunkworks_> I thought it was entertaining.
[16:09:38] <cradek> I watched a bit of the cutting but not much of the talking :-)
[16:22:04] <ries> Guys, can i change the location of the home axis button in EMC? I find it to close to teh touch off button...
[16:22:25] <cradek> ries: the keyboard shortcut for touch off is "End"
[16:22:46] <SWPadnos> that's too close to "Home" ;)
[16:22:59] <ries> cradek: But.... I still need to have it moved of possible, I work with somebody that uses a mouse a lot....
[16:23:09] <ries> sometimes we press the wrong button and we need to re-home..
[16:23:24] <SWPadnos> you would need to mess with AXIS source to do that
[16:23:32] <ries> a other solution would be to have a question box 'Already homed foo bar, are you sure?'
[16:23:41] <cradek> yeah there's not an easy way to move controls around on the AXIS screens, but you can do it by changing the program
[16:23:42] <ries> SWPadnos: is the axis source in python?
[16:23:47] <SWPadnos> python and tcl
[16:24:04] <ries> I can add that code and provide a patch.... just need your opinion on it....
[16:24:47] <SWPadnos> adding a (preferably optional) message that the machine is already homed may be good
[16:25:07] <SWPadnos> moving the button around is a fool's game - there will never be 100% agreement on where it should be
[16:25:07] <cradek> I can promise to look at and consider the change, but I'm kind of afraid of where you will end up when you try to change the program to suit people who can't click the button they intend to click
[16:26:01] <ries> cradek: it just happens once a while in the act of working, and for some older people (in this case) they might press the wrong button
[16:26:30] <cradek> is it harmful to rehome in your situation? On my machines it takes a few seconds but otherwise doesn't matter
[16:26:53] <cradek> I suppose if you aren't homing to index you'll possibly get a different position
[16:26:55] <ries> The big problem is that when the 0 is moved, you have the potential to crash against the edges... now I could add limit switches, but still, when a gantry rushes fast into one or the other direction and you bring it to stop fast due to limiting switches, you still of a bad solution
[16:27:24] <SWPadnos> if that's a concern when homing, your homing setup is defective
[16:27:32] <ries> why is that?
[16:27:41] <cradek> yeah I'm struggling to fully understand the actual problem here
[16:27:44] <SWPadnos> the explicit function of homing is to align the physical machine zero with the logical machine zero
[16:27:53] <ries> correct
[16:28:08] <ries> and I tell exis how big my machine, right? (1220x2440 mm)
[16:28:10] <danimal_garage> morning
[16:28:26] <ries> then I can jog up/down correctly and Axis will know what the limits are
[16:28:32] <ries> I cannot crash it..
[16:28:39] <SWPadnos> right
[16:28:50] <danimal_garage> ries: sounds like you dont have home switches?
[16:29:06] <SWPadnos> and the homing procedure shouldn't be configured to crash either, since you theoretically don't know where the machine is until it's homed
[16:29:07] <ries> danimal_garage: correct, but let me go on...
[16:29:26] <SWPadnos> oh. if you have no real homing hardware, then homing is relatively useless
[16:29:46] <SWPadnos> or you need to manually move to some marks or something
[16:29:57] <ries> if I home where the machine is at X 1000mm, and I move the gantry up then I crash at the end (potentially) because Axis thinks that I was at 0 physically.
[16:30:33] <ries> I don't have homing hardware, not limited switches.. I move the gantry by jogging it to 0,0,0
[16:30:36] <SWPadnos> yes, you are using homing in a way that makes accidental homing a bad thing. I don't know how to fix that without adding home switches
[16:30:52] <SWPadnos> understood. I see the problem, and suggest getting home switches :)
[16:31:19] <ries> The problem with limit switches in 'our' case is that the gantry is like 100 or more pounds, adn can move at 2500mm/second that you don't bring to a hald quickly enough with limit switches
[16:31:52] <danimal_garage> SWPadnos: accidental homing sucks in my position too. My home switches arent accurate enough to trust them, so i gotta re indicate the fixture
[16:31:54] <cradek> all the more reason to have homing that's hard to screw up
[16:31:57] <SWPadnos> use a roller-lever type with a relatively long cam
[16:32:12] <danimal_garage> i have steppers
[16:32:33] <ries> SWPadnos: cradek where should I have these switches? at the end or like 20cm before the ends?
[16:32:53] <SWPadnos> you can put it somewhere far enough from the end so there's no damage
[16:32:58] <cradek> a home switch can be anywhere, but if it's near one end you don't need such a long cam
[16:32:59] <ries> like I said, I cannot bring my gantry to a hold quickly, like metal milling machines can do..
[16:33:00] <SWPadnos> you can also home at a slower speed
[16:33:06] <ries> so I need to have some deacceleration time
[16:33:19] <cradek> limit switches should be placed to allow you to stop before hitting the end of travel
[16:33:26] <SWPadnos> did you really mean 2.5 meters/second?
[16:34:20] <ries> SWPadnos: it can do it yes, I rarely do... but during fast movements (G0) over a large piece of MDF, I don't see a reason why I should move fast...
[16:34:42] <SWPadnos> and the total travel is 1220x2440mm
[16:34:44] <ries> SWPadnos: it top speed yes, 2.5meters/second is possible
[16:34:47] <SWPadnos> ok
[16:34:57] <cradek> wow, that's fast
[16:35:45] <cradek> some machines disconnect the amps and short the servo (perhaps through a resistor) with a contactor to do active braking
[16:36:21] <cradek> maybe you could hardwire your limit switches to do this
[16:36:52] <cradek> seems like one crash at that speed because of incorrect homing (or any other problem) could destroy your machine
[16:37:56] <ries> cradek: it's scary to see how fast teh machine can go...
[16:38:08] <ries> Liek I said, I ususally don't jog that fast
[16:38:19] <ries> But the gantry + router is around 100pounds
[16:39:03] <ries> it's a machine like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwO_KL1GRww
[16:46:33] <ries> I agree I should have limiting switches and a proper homing sequence, but to make this reliable I am not sure how to do that yet
[16:46:55] <ries> However it sounds like I need two switches on my X and Y axis (I can stop Z fast enough)
[16:47:01] <danimal_garage> cradek: did u get my message yesterday?
[16:47:06] <ries> one to detect 'near' edge, and one to detect 'at edge'
[16:47:14] <bill2or3> limit and home switches, huh
[16:47:20] <cradek> danimal_garage: yeah, thanks for sending the stuff
[16:47:47] <ries> at edge I will use during my homing, and near edge I will use to slow down the machine when I am reaching the end... does that make sense?
[16:48:01] <cradek> danimal_garage: didn't you get an email from paypal?
[16:49:30] <bill2or3> ries, if you place the limit switch far enough from the end-of-travel that it can stop (from the speed you're homing it at) then you could do a double-bounce homing sequence, and only need one switch.
[16:49:46] <bill2or3> (not that I know if that's really a thing, but it seems like it would work)
[16:50:10] <cradek> sure you can home to a limit switch (but of course not if the limit switch is hardwired to disable motion)
[16:50:14] <bill2or3> so 'home' once fast, stop when it hits the limit switch, then back up a bit and re-home, slowly.
[16:50:28] <cradek> bill2or3: emc does this two-speed thing for you
[16:50:46] <bill2or3> you'd have to be using a switch that the axis wont destroy if it hits it at speed, optointerrupters I gues.
[16:50:47] <bill2or3> guess.
[16:50:59] <bill2or3> cradek, ahh, cool, I didn't know that.
[16:51:20] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 hasn't actually connected his limit switches to anything yet.
[16:51:22] <cradek> bill2or3: it can home all sorts of ways (including with no home switch)
[16:51:30] <ries> cradek: I was planning to feed the limit switch back into EMC so it can properly decelerate, not like a estop system
[16:51:35] <danimal_garage> cradek: opps! thought that was payment from someone else. Thanks!
[16:51:48] <cradek> danimal_garage: thanks to you too
[16:52:08] <cradek> ries: if emc senses a limit switch hit, it stops immediately and disables the amps
[16:52:23] <ries> cradek: That would be dangerous for me...
[16:52:32] <ries> but, during homign I mean
[16:52:33] <danimal_garage> 29lbs for that stuff lol
[16:52:40] <cradek> danimal_garage: woo
[16:53:00] <ries> I trust emc good enough to not fail in that, just that I need a way to not re-home once the machine is up and running..
[16:53:31] <ries> I do have limit switches already (opto doesn't work reliable with wood...) so may be I should read and fool around with that....
[16:54:12] <cradek> now that we have unhome, we could actually forbid/ignore homing an already-homed joint. that would be a big change becaus this has never been an error before.
[16:54:20] <danimal_garage> is there a way to put a button in pyvcp so that you have to hit 2 buttons in order to home it? might eliminate accidental homing.
[16:54:30] <cradek> danimal_garage: no
[16:54:47] <cradek> danimal_garage: well you can't disable the normal AXIS homing button anyway
[16:58:55] <tom3p> re: home button, maybe dont change the location, but change it to a large border (make the button smaller and ths further from its neighbor) ( pad in axi\s.tcl) ?
[16:59:22] <cradek> that way lies madness, IMO
[16:59:50] <awallin> anyone with c++ experience around? If I have classA.h which needs the definition of classB, then at the top of classA.h I put #include "classB.h" BUT inside classB.h I need classA to be defined so I try #include "classA.h", and that results in circular reasoning which makes the compiler unhappy.
[16:59:53] <cradek> in some cases we already don't have enough room on that screen...
[17:01:54] <danimal_garage> how about a drop down menu that has the axises on it, so it isnt a button anymore. kinda like the select jog incrament box
[17:02:50] <danimal_garage> i guess not so easy for non-mouse users though
[17:02:53] <cradek> homing (and unhoming) are already on the Machine menu. I suppose someone could just remove the Home button (on his own copy)
[17:03:14] <tom3p> that'd be smaller ;)
[17:04:15] <danimal_garage> i was thinking a home undo button in the machine menu would be a life saver
[17:04:46] <danimal_garage> so it goes back to the coordinates before the last home
[17:06:49] <ries> I was just thinking about a dialog that pops up with a 'are you sure' question, YES or NO buttons. That would not clutter the interface and it's also easy to use for touch screen users...
[17:07:18] <ries> The popup only appears when it was already homed...
[17:07:58] <celeron55> i'd say moving it to somewhere else would be a better idea
[17:08:12] <ries> usually you just want to home once.... I am a newbie so, don't take my word for granted...
[17:08:22] <frallzor> ries the touchy interface is pretty nice
[17:08:36] <frallzor> pretty well optimized for touch
[17:08:49] <cradek> I think I like that idea the best so far (are-you-sure dialog if already homed)
[17:09:07] <danimal_garage> yea that is a good one
[17:09:22] <ries> frallzor: I know you worked with that.... Not saying that axis should be a new touchy, just that a popup is out of the way always no buttons, no menu entries) but only warns you when you want to re-home.
[17:09:54] <frallzor> is it that easy to rehome? never done that
[17:10:13] <ries> frallzor: yes it is... you need to un-home first, then re-home again...
[17:10:39] <danimal_garage> cradek: i tried to find that tool touch off, and all i see is g54 through g59.3
[17:10:52] <ries> but sometimes when I want to touch, I have teh position for my touch.. and after a re-home I need to find that position again. The whole procedure takes about 1.5 minutes (best guess)
[17:11:12] <cradek> danimal_garage: load a tool
[17:11:25] <danimal_garage> i did
[17:12:04] <cradek> if you're running 2.3 or 2.4 and a tool is loaded, you should get "T" on your touchoff options
[17:13:19] <danimal_garage> i have 2.3.4
[17:13:27] <danimal_garage> and there is no t
[17:14:37] <danimal_garage> i'm doing t#m6 in midi, followed by g43h#
[17:14:55] <danimal_garage> is there something i'm not doing?
[17:16:46] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/tool-touchoff.png
[17:17:58] <danimal_garage> mine doesnt have that
[17:18:55] <danimal_garage> haha i'm a dumbass
[17:18:57] <cradek> start emc, F1, F2, control-home, f5, t1m6, f3, z, touch off
[17:18:59] <danimal_garage> has to be in z
[17:19:17] <danimal_garage> sorry
[17:19:17] <cradek> ahhhh
[17:19:27] <cradek> I should have thought of it
[17:19:32] <danimal_garage> me too lol
[17:19:47] <danimal_garage> well i found it on the lathe at least
[17:19:56] <danimal_garage> mill is still apart
[17:20:56] <danimal_garage> on that note, i gotta run. gotta finish this thing so i can get some parts out
[17:21:34] <danimal_garage> lemme know if you have any issues with the stuff, i can exchange them if they dont work
[17:21:51] <danimal_garage> but mine worked fine, so i expect yours should be the same
[17:22:57] <cradek> ok, thanks
[18:32:46] <danimal_garage> is 8mb of ram enough for a video card for emc?
[18:33:18] <anonimasu> that sounds very little for anything at all
[18:33:54] <danimal_garage> true
[18:34:01] <tom3p> easy to try
[18:34:01] <jackc> yes it is
[18:34:11] <jackc> were not doing hardcore 3d apps here
[18:34:23] <danimal_garage> tom3p: i'd have to buy it to try it
[18:34:24] <anonimasu> opengl visualization dosent require video memory?
[18:34:52] <tom3p> dont buy it, look for better
[18:35:21] <danimal_garage> i'm looking for the cheapest that'll work
[18:35:34] <danimal_garage> this one is $14.00
[18:35:48] <anonimasu> I'd suggest buying the best card you can for as cheap you can
[18:36:16] <jackc> dude
[18:36:24] <danimal_garage> yea i'm not doing that
[18:36:27] <jackc> what sort of oGL simulations are you doing
[18:36:35] <jackc> mine has 8m ram i just checked and never had an issue
[18:36:49] <anonimasu> are you running axis as ui?
[18:36:52] <jackc> the TCL app *prolly* isnt hardware accelerated anyway
[18:36:53] <jackc> yes
[18:36:58] <jackc> its written in python
[18:37:18] <jackc> get a cheap card, as long as it supports the resolutions you like
[18:37:32] <jackc> i run 1152xWhatever
[18:37:39] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[18:37:53] <tom3p> danimal, tigerdirect?
[18:37:56] <danimal_garage> yep
[18:38:07] <tom3p> 6$ more for 332meg
[18:38:25] <danimal_garage> That's a cheeseburger
[18:38:59] <jackc> lol, CNC on a budget eh?
[18:39:11] <anonimasu> will you build your own stepper drives too?
[18:39:20] <danimal_garage> my computer has this big board that has vga, ethernet, and the ide drive ports on it
[18:39:27] <danimal_garage> i'm trying to ditch it to save sapce
[18:39:32] <jackc> ahh
[18:39:45] <danimal_garage> i need a vga card for that though, and it needs to be pci
[18:39:50] <tom3p> err 32meg
[18:40:09] <danimal_garage> i have a box full of great agp cards, but no agp slot here
[18:40:42] <jackc> :-/
[18:43:41] <danimal_garage> might grab an atom as well
[18:43:54] <danimal_garage> for the lathe
[18:47:07] <tom3p> the pci matrox are getting rare
[18:48:25] <danimal_garage> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119011
[18:58:22] <SWPadnos> danimal_garage, two points about that (nice little) PC: 1) it's an atom 230, which is the single core version - I don't know what experiences people have had, 2) the slot is low profile, so you wouldn't be able to use e.g. a Mesa card in it, and your video card options would be limited (as well as any other I/O, like parallel port cards) It also doesn't have a parallel port
[18:58:26] <SWPadnos> (three points)
[18:59:35] <danimal_garage> i was gunna ditch the enclosure and mount the whole thing in my machine's enclosure
[18:59:58] <danimal_garage> and i dont see a need for a parport
[19:00:00] <SWPadnos> oh. in that case you might as well just get the D945GCLF2, it's $80 I think
[19:00:08] <danimal_garage> oh ok cool
[19:00:08] <SWPadnos> only if you can't fit a mesa card in the machine ;)
[19:01:00] <danimal_garage> or if i want to use my dot matrix printer someday lol
[19:01:05] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121359
[19:01:07] <SWPadnos> sure
[19:03:29] <danimal_garage> i tihnk thats the one i was looking at when i was at the store yesterday
[19:04:12] <danimal_garage> i guess the only reason i didnt get it was because i'd have to buy a power supply and ram
[19:05:20] <danimal_garage> i did find the 32mb vid card locally for $15 though
[19:06:34] <SWPadnos> oh right. that would be an advantage of the all-in-one unit
[19:06:54] <SWPadnos> though you still have to buy RAM, that doesn't come with it
[19:08:07] <numen> i need a slow powerfull spindle, has anyone an idea? if possible with toolchanger
[19:09:33] <danimal_garage> SWPadnos: yea, ram is the bummer
[19:09:40] <danimal_garage> if it used ddr, i'd be all set
[19:09:54] <SWPadnos> 2GB of DDR2 is $43 or so
[19:09:56] <danimal_garage> i dont think i have any ddr2
[19:10:14] <SWPadnos> add in a small SSD drive, and you're still under $250
[19:10:14] <danimal_garage> $43 is alot of cheeseburgers
[19:10:18] <SWPadnos> (with a power supply)
[19:10:22] <SWPadnos> well, go on a diet
[19:10:27] <SWPadnos> this is computer hardware!
[19:10:38] <danimal_garage> i have a few hd's
[19:10:57] <SWPadnos> the advantage of the all-in-one (other than the power supply) is that it looks like it's fanless
[19:11:42] <danimal_garage> except for the power supply
[19:15:56] <Guest721> Guest721 is now known as skunkworks_
[19:17:57] <danimal_garage> dammit i need a more compact 24v power supply
[19:19:18] <frallzor> my PMDX has integrated 24V supply
[19:19:22] <frallzor> its very small
[19:19:46] <frallzor> should be able to find that kind cheap
[19:19:47] <danimal_garage> pmdx?
[19:19:58] <frallzor> its a bob
[19:20:11] <danimal_garage> bob?
[19:20:15] <frallzor> break out board
[19:20:19] <danimal_garage> ohh
[19:20:40] <frallzor> it has a nice little 120/230V>24V transformer on it
[19:20:47] <danimal_garage> i just need it for relays
[19:21:30] <danimal_garage> i guess i can get 12v relays, but they're like $9 each, and i need 4
[19:33:47] <mozmck_work> is there a way to make AXIS not load the emc2 logo by default?
[19:33:59] <SWPadnos> there are at least 3 ways
[19:33:59] <danimal_garage> yes
[19:34:21] <mozmck_work> good! I haven't found how yet looking at the docs
[19:34:24] <SWPadnos> an environment variable (don't remember the name), an ini setting (don't remember the name), or changing axis :)
[19:35:28] <danimal_garage> there's a line in ini that says introductory graphic
[19:35:47] <danimal_garage> the file name is there. you can change it.
[19:35:48] <SWPadnos> ok - AXIS_OPEN_FILE environment variable, [DISPLAY]OPEN_FILE, or you can put it on the command line
[19:35:57] <SWPadnos> that's not the same thing
[19:36:07] <danimal_garage> no?
[19:36:11] <SWPadnos> your GUI
[19:36:15] <SWPadnos> argh
[19:36:23] <SWPadnos> that's the Tux image that pops up before your GUI
[19:36:33] <danimal_garage> i thought thats what he ment
[19:36:45] <danimal_garage> opps
[19:36:47] <mozmck_work> so the OPEN_FILE setting goes in the display section?
[19:36:53] <SWPadnos> yep
[19:36:55] <danimal_garage> ignore me then
[19:37:03] <mozmck_work> no, I'm talking about the emc2 gcode shown in the backplot.
[19:37:08] <danimal_garage> ohhhhhh
[19:37:12] <mozmck_work> It breaks bits!
[19:37:18] <mozmck_work> :)
[19:37:25] <SWPadnos> hey mozmck, how far from Dallas are you?
[19:37:36] <danimal_garage> yea i'd like to get rid of that too. it sucks when you have a lathe, and there's no y axis so it gives you an error all the time
[19:37:40] <mozmck_work> 'bout 50 minutes north.
[19:38:01] <SWPadnos> danimal_garage, AXIS will load a different file for lathes, if you have LATHE=1 in your ini
[19:38:04] <mozmck_work> SWPadnos: want to come out? or meet somewhere?
[19:38:29] <danimal_garage> oh i guess i dont have that in my ini
[19:38:31] <SWPadnos> well, I may have some time off in Dallas next week, like Wednesday afternoon through Friday morning
[19:38:44] <SWPadnos> danimal_garage, you should put it in for your lathe
[19:38:58] <SWPadnos> it changes a couple of things about the backplot, and probably other stuff I don't know
[19:39:41] <SWPadnos> mozmck, I'll have a car, so I can come out there. It would be interesting to meet Tom (we may have met before), and see the shop
[19:40:17] <danimal_garage> cool thanks
[19:40:17] <mozmck_work> Yeah, that would be neat!
[19:40:26] <danimal_garage> i was wondering why the interface was weird
[19:40:42] <SWPadnos> I don't really know how much soldering / network testing I'll need to do, but in theory I'll have time off :)
[19:41:18] <danimal_garage> SWPadnos: do you ever come out to san diego?
[19:41:26] <mozmck_work> :) that would be great if you have time.
[19:41:38] <SWPadnos> never been there, though I'm in LA (with no spare time) fairly often these days
[19:42:05] <danimal_garage> la is a bit far anyways. about 120 miles or so
[19:42:24] <SWPadnos> not too bad if I have time
[19:43:56] <danimal_garage> you could check out the shop, and maybe convince yourself to build your lathe once you see one in action
[19:44:45] <danimal_garage> not that my build is something to write home about
[19:45:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:45:12] <SWPadnos> I'm convinced, just busy :)
[19:45:19] <danimal_garage> although i tihnk i actually did write home about it once in my christmas card to my parents
[19:45:47] <danimal_garage> yea i hear ya
[19:46:27] <danimal_garage> but with the amount of guys on here with the same lathe, you wont have to do much "exploratory surgery"
[19:46:35] <danimal_garage> so it should go fast
[19:46:38] <mozmck_work> so to prevent any file from loading you would just say OPEN_FILE=
[19:46:39] <mozmck_work> ?
[19:47:05] <mozmck_work> what lathe is it? I need to find one!
[19:47:12] <danimal_garage> hardinge HNC
[19:47:29] <danimal_garage> it's a little guy
[19:47:51] <SWPadnos> mozmck_work, if that doesn't work, make a tiny file that says G20 / M2 and load that
[19:47:52] <mozmck_work> ah.
[19:48:10] <danimal_garage> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/hardinge/
[19:48:22] <mozmck_work> ok, I'll try it. can't afford too many more broken bits (only one so far...)
[19:49:28] <danimal_garage> perfect size for a garage operation IMO
[19:51:26] <danimal_garage> ok off to get lunch, adios
[19:51:50] <mozmck_work> looks like. my shop is 26x30, and I have a 12x20 room inside, and 4 manual metal lathes, table saw, CNC router table, 6000lb mill, drum sander, 2 wood planers, jointer, and etc.
[19:52:08] <mozmck_work> I need to get rid of some stuff...
[19:53:32] <danimal_garage> nice
[19:53:44] <danimal_garage> i'm about as bad off as you
[19:55:37] <danimal_garage> i got a little 2 car garage with a 6000+lb mill, bridgeport manual mill, harig surface grinder, 14x42 manual lathe, 80 gallon compressor, hardinge hnc manual lathe, washer, dryer, anodizing setup, workbenches, a few roll aways, welder, sanders, buffers, bandsaws, etc
[19:56:18] <danimal_garage> all the wood working stuff is outside under my patio (stays pretty dry out here)
[19:56:34] <danimal_garage> hardinge hnc CNC lathe*
[19:59:42] <jackc> thats kinda insane
[19:59:59] <jackc> you can anodize? do you do contract work?
[20:01:48] <mozmck_work> who?
[20:02:15] <mozmck_work> oh, I see.
[20:03:39] <mozmck_work> yeah, sounds about like my shop. I forgot my 2 bandsaw, shelving, welder, 55 gallon dust collector, etc :)
[20:41:05] <tom3p> wha! the pickit2 programmer is also a 3 channel digital scope on linux http://sourceforge.net/projects/pk2-la/
[20:43:32] <jackc> how fast?
[20:44:19] <mozmck_work> neat! I have one, I'll have to try it.
[20:44:49] <SWPadnos> it's a digital input "logic analyzer", not a scope
[20:44:56] <SWPadnos> 3 bits in, digital only
[20:46:28] <mozmck_work> oh, It does that on windows too. haven't used it for that yet...
[20:47:25] <Danimal-office> jackc: i anodize my products, my setup is kinda proprietary to that. dont do much contract work
[20:47:55] <Danimal-office> dont mind helping people out though
[20:49:13] <jackc> Danimal-office: soooo if i were to cut an occaisonal part for my bike or something, would you be open to me sending it to you with some cash for anodizing or no?
[20:49:18] <jackc> no problem if you dont want the hassle, just wondering
[20:49:40] <Danimal-office> dont want any money, but i can help ya out on occasions
[20:50:14] <jackc> heh certainly your time is worth something. do you make parts for a living?
[20:51:10] <Danimal-office> everybody's time is worth something on this channel, but everyone helps anyways. Just pay it forward.
[20:51:27] <jackc> haha word
[20:51:28] <Danimal-office> i cant help many people with emc just yet so anodizing is about all i can offer lol
[20:51:38] <Danimal-office> i make bicycle parts for a living
[20:51:44] <jackc> oh thats quite cool
[20:51:52] <jackc> for a company, or do you design them too?
[20:51:58] <Danimal-office> single speed mountain bike parts
[20:52:03] <Danimal-office> i do everything myself
[20:52:05] <jackc> sweet
[20:52:11] <jackc> do you have a site?
[20:52:30] <Danimal-office> http://homebrewedcomponents.wordpress.com/product-pictures-and-pricing/
[20:52:37] <jackc> awesome, looking
[20:52:38] <Danimal-office> just a blog so far, working on a site
[20:56:33] <jackc> Danimal-office: what do you use for CAD and CAM?
[20:56:47] <Danimal-office> solidworks/mcamx
[20:57:42] <jackc> hm i use solidworks, havent heard of mcamx. you got it to export in a manner EMC is happy with?
[20:57:49] <Danimal-office> mastercam x
[20:58:10] <jackc> ah heard of it then, sorry
[20:58:17] <Danimal-office> :)
[20:59:11] <jackc> in the Big Shop ive used solidworks to Esprit (which is really cool for curves and 3d surfaces) but I could never get EMC to like it
[20:59:40] <Danimal-office> mastercam works great with emc
[21:00:02] <Danimal-office> although my stuff is all 2d
[21:00:54] <Danimal-office> anodizing is easy if you wanted to do your own setup
[21:01:20] <Danimal-office> just some battery acid and a power supply
[21:01:36] <Danimal-office> i used a computer power supply when i started
[21:02:18] <jackc> really?
[21:02:23] <jackc> id love to do it myself
[21:02:26] <Danimal-office> yea
[21:02:26] <jackc> how do the colors work?
[21:02:29] <Danimal-office> dye
[21:03:14] <jackc> hm
[21:03:16] <jackc> * jackc googles
[21:03:16] <Danimal-office> the anodizing process opens up pores in the surface of the aluminum, and the dye soaks in. then you seal it and it's permanent
[21:03:31] <Danimal-office> hold on, i'll link ya to a good site for learning
[21:04:04] <jackc> thanks
[21:04:55] <Danimal-office> http://www.caswellplating.com/
[21:05:05] <Danimal-office> over on the left, there's a link to the forum
[21:05:20] <Danimal-office> that site is where i get all my stuff
[21:05:35] <Danimal-office> the forum is good for learning/asking questions
[21:06:33] <jackc> epic, thanks
[21:08:30] <Danimal-office> no prob
[21:10:11] <frallzor> * frallzor is bored
[21:27:39] <danimal_garage> * danimal_garage thinks of Van Halen everytime Valen pops in
[21:28:12] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valen
[21:29:56] <danimal_garage> lol
[21:30:10] <danimal_garage> i think you were better off with Eddie Van Halen
[21:39:14] <tom3p> is halscope a scope or a "logic analyzer"?
[21:40:10] <cradek> halscope doesn't really have limitations that make it one or the other
[21:40:34] <mozmck_work> if it measures analog values and graphs them it would be a scope I think.
[21:40:42] <cradek> scopes have a limited number of channels, and often no pretriggering; logic analyzers can't display analog signals
[21:40:58] <cradek> so it's neither and/or both
[21:41:40] <tom3p> i wanna tshirt that sez "neither and/or both"
[21:43:39] <SWPadnos> tom3p, http://www.zazzle.com/
[21:44:39] <tom3p> wow that internet is somethin
[22:26:45] <andypugh> To satisfy my curiosity, and not for any other reason because it is only a play-config, does anyone know what the joint.N.position-fb Output pin is for?
[22:29:13] <SWPadnos> I wonder if that's in the current coordinate system or something
[22:29:32] <SWPadnos> vs. offset machine coordinates (offset by home offsets or something)
[22:30:27] <ds3> are the homing sequence in EMC defineable or are they like an absolute coordinate version of g0 x0 y0 z0 ?
[22:30:53] <andypugh> Sounds about right. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_emc2hal.html is a little unclear what one is expected to do about it.
[22:31:29] <SWPadnos> ds3, homing is covered ad nauseum in the manual
[22:31:38] <ds3> okay
[22:31:46] <andypugh> ds3: Definable. You put a sequence number in the INI file and it homes all the 0s first, then the 1s etc
[22:31:47] <ds3> and the manual is accurate/current?
[22:32:24] <ds3> andypugh: thanks.
[22:32:39] <SWPadnos> probably (more or less :) )
[22:32:51] <andypugh> Though that reminds me of a question, are the [AXIS_1] tags freely exchangeable for [JOINT_1] ?
[22:32:51] <ds3> turns out the home switches for my machine are located such that it will crash if the wrong sequence is not followed :(
[22:33:15] <frallzor> anyone doing something interesting with a nice machine? :)
[22:33:16] <SWPadnos> you have to follow the wrong sequence?
[22:33:38] <ds3> if it is random, "wrong" is bound to happen
[22:33:47] <andypugh> No, I am doing something interesting with a horrod bit of Chinese iron.
[22:34:21] <ds3> designers put a duct in that will cause a collision
[22:34:29] <ds3> also an import machine
[22:34:53] <andypugh> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/config_ini_homing.html#HOME%20SEQUENCE
[22:35:52] <ds3> I'm just planning out things... I expect to be buried neck deep in the docs this weekend
[22:36:14] <andypugh> I ought so start the project I bought the machine for in the first place, now it is fully working. What I actually want to do is buy a proper 1950s Mill and Lathe, and convert them to CNC knowing what I know now, and hoping to learn the rest.
[22:37:02] <ds3> why not start with an old/ancient CNC instead? i.e. a punch tape machine
[22:38:17] <andypugh> They cost money. And besides, I reckon basic machine tool design as far a the metal is concerned peaked in the 50/60s
[22:39:09] <archivist> andypugh, a horizontal mill available at the right price but its in south derbeyshire
[22:39:25] <andypugh> Is it rather tiny?
[22:40:23] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010201.JPG
[22:40:35] <danimal_garage> andypugh: i cant see buying an early 80's/late 70's cnc costing as much as trying to retrofit a manual machine
[22:40:40] <archivist> no not tiny
[22:41:03] <danimal_garage> ball screws and all that stuff are $$$$$$$$
[22:41:05] <ds3> the local JC was saying they wanted to sell off an old hardinge clone CNC machine "at a favorable price" a few years ago... prehaps other places are doing the same?
[22:41:34] <andypugh> You are probably right. And the sensible choice would be a Denford Orac. except I would really want to keep that totally stock as a museum piece.
[22:41:43] <danimal_garage> i bet a decent manual machine would cost quite a bit more than a cnc machine with a bad control
[22:41:59] <ds3> andypugh: you have an Orac you are working on?
[22:41:59] <archivist> andypugh, the difficult bit it that mill has to be out by monday
[22:42:55] <andypugh> No, I have never even seen one, but they were made in my home town. Only otherwise famous for a brass band and Wilf Lunn.
[22:43:10] <ds3> oh
[22:43:38] <andypugh> Archivist: You have any details, my dad is an accidental collector of old machine toolsand has a lot more space than me (and is in Yorkshire)
[22:43:45] <archivist> I have the oracs baby brother the starturn
[22:44:14] <archivist> andypugh, then we have more than one available
[22:44:34] <andypugh> Swap for a 19" Ormerod Shaper?
[22:44:45] <danimal_garage> my hometown is known for the birthplace of ESPN
[22:45:56] <archivist> andypugh, that one is a Adcock and Shipley, we also have a rare turn of the century vertical mill Garvin
[22:46:51] <andypugh> Hmm, my dad, as an ex gearbox designer could probably enjoy making a vertical head for that Adcock.
[22:46:56] <archivist> andypugh, garvin http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv12.php?errlev=0&srcdata=title&srcprog=searchv12.php&searchv4page=1&searchstr=skeleton+base
[22:56:21] <alex_joni> http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/SpcaPict%20(1).jpg
[22:56:26] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is happy :D
[22:57:14] <danimal_garage> what is that?
[22:57:25] <alex_joni> danimal_garage: a really crappy photo
[22:57:38] <alex_joni> taken with a webcam, on openwrt running on my router
[22:57:48] <danimal_garage> ah
[22:57:56] <danimal_garage> so its running?
[22:58:01] <alex_joni> I just spent 6h backporting and compiling the driver and application for it
[22:58:21] <alex_joni> yup.. it's pretty dark here, so I placed a led strip infront of the cam
[22:59:14] <bill2or3> you got usb working on a wrt?
[22:59:16] <bill2or3> neat
[22:59:57] <alex_joni> bill2or3: usb is pretty easy (asus wl-520gU)
[23:00:19] <alex_joni> it's this damn spca5xx that caused me pain
[23:00:35] <danimal_garage> not sure what all that means, but sounds cool so congrats!
[23:00:47] <alex_joni> danimal_garage: haha, thanks ;)
[23:01:29] <alex_joni> compiling emc2 (heck even rcslib & emc1) is way easier & faster
[23:01:32] <danimal_garage> i gotta figure out how to move a 6000+lb machine a few inches
[23:01:52] <danimal_garage> no way to get under it
[23:01:56] <alex_joni> danimal_garage: you need a bit of force..
[23:02:04] <bill2or3> thermite?
[23:02:05] <alex_joni> small mass * big velocity
[23:02:12] <alex_joni> or big mass * small velocity
[23:02:15] <danimal_garage> yep
[23:02:53] <alex_joni> do you have a fixed point which you could use as leverage?
[23:02:54] <jt-plasma> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/hardinge04.jpg
[23:02:56] <alex_joni> a wall maybe?
[23:03:35] <danimal_garage> jt-plasma: no way to get under it
[23:03:48] <danimal_garage> alex_joni: no wall that'll handle this
[23:03:56] <alex_joni> danimal_garage: I often use a device (not sure how that's called)
[23:04:11] <alex_joni> it's made out of 2 screws + center piece
[23:04:20] <alex_joni> the 2 screws have opposite thread directions
[23:04:30] <jt-plasma> any fork openings?
[23:04:39] <alex_joni> when you rotate the center piece the 2 screws get pushed outwards
[23:05:45] <danimal_garage> jt-plasma: nope
[23:06:08] <cradek> alex_joni: turnbuckle?
[23:06:16] <danimal_garage> little notch in the front center, enough to get a prybar under, but not a whole lot a prybar can do with this.
[23:06:52] <cradek> danimal_garage: two people with prybars could lift my machine about that size
[23:07:05] <alex_joni> cradek: pretty much
[23:07:16] <jt-plasma> cobble up a toe jack with a bottle jack and some steel bits
[23:07:27] <alex_joni> although a lot bigger, and it's not meant for pulling, but for pushing
[23:07:31] <cradek> yeah that's easy for a bottle jack
[23:07:47] <alex_joni> about 1" screws
[23:08:04] <alex_joni> I've been pushing 10.000lbs easily with that
[23:08:51] <danimal_garage> jt-plasma: tried that with some 1 inch round stock
[23:12:33] <danimal_garage> holy crap, i got this thing off the ground in the front, and a 6 foot pry bar still wont budge it
[23:12:53] <danimal_garage> guess i need to eat some weaties
[23:13:06] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma takes the bits out of the new to the Hardinge computer
[23:13:24] <alex_joni> danimal_garage: you need to make sure it touches ground in as little places as possible
[23:13:32] <danimal_garage> get your computer placement figured out jt-plasma?
[23:15:01] <jt-plasma> no
[23:16:51] <danimal_garage> woo got it to move 1/4"
[23:17:59] <alex_joni> see, only a couple more
[23:19:55] <danimal_garage> needs to move about 3 inches sideways
[23:20:11] <WalterN> hi
[23:20:57] <WalterN> danimal_garage: mind if I ask how old you are?
[23:22:37] <danimal_garage> w00t got it!
[23:22:41] <danimal_garage> 28
[23:23:05] <danimal_garage> now i gotta move my bridgeport
[23:23:16] <danimal_garage> but thats easy, i can move that by hand
[23:23:17] <alex_joni> whee.. someone younger than me in here :P
[23:23:28] <WalterN> * WalterN is 22 :P
[23:23:29] <danimal_garage> alex_joni: ha
[23:23:35] <archivist> kids!
[23:23:36] <tom3p> johnson bar http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200326481_200326481
[23:24:01] <WalterN> oh dang... next month is my birthday :(
[23:24:59] <danimal_garage> it's moved
[23:25:35] <danimal_garage> using a johnson rod sounds painful
[23:26:42] <WalterN> oh wow
[23:27:23] <WalterN> I just discovered $447 in one of the bank accounts I abandon when I moved here
[23:27:31] <tom3p> then put these under it, and jack the machine onto real pads http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200342863_200342863
[23:27:56] <tom3p> WalterN: thats a happy birthday
[23:28:13] <WalterN> thats just enough for a blendtec blender :D
[23:29:04] <WalterN> except that its two states away
[23:29:26] <WalterN> hmm...
[23:32:56] <Valen> 27
[23:33:07] <Valen> wait no 26 for a while at least
[23:34:14] <Valen> they have this thing called the internet these days i hear
[23:34:22] <Valen> they say you can do banking on it
[23:34:32] <WalterN> I know
[23:34:56] <WalterN> there is this thing called a pin number that they evidently gave me when I made the account
[23:35:12] <WalterN> meh
[23:35:24] <WalterN> not sure where I left all those papers
[23:37:07] <WalterN> yay for pickled garlic :D
[23:43:34] <frallzor> * frallzor wants his housing so he can put most of this http://pici.se/p/JXUsjynip/ in it =(
[23:45:29] <alex_joni> got your pmdx breakout?
[23:45:38] <frallzor> yup
[23:45:42] <alex_joni> nice
[23:46:01] <frallzor> quite
[23:46:11] <alex_joni> off to bed for me.. have fun guys
[23:47:51] <andypugh> Just build a case, chaps. A bit of Bosch extrusion and some MDF painted black makes a decent case, and then when you want some more room it takes 30 mins to expand it.
[23:48:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni built his last enclosure..
[23:48:29] <alex_joni> took a lot of time though
[23:48:32] <frallzor> I've ordered a proper one =)
[23:48:38] <andypugh> http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5398215381172597314
[23:48:53] <frallzor> nice little polyester one reinforced with glassfibre
[23:49:07] <alex_joni> frallzor: http://juve.ro/blog-files/projects/radio/IMG_7072.JPG
[23:49:23] <andypugh> First-time build took a couple of hours, but mods to expand a lot less
[23:50:04] <andypugh> That's 1U of server, 2U of drivers and interface and 2U of VFD
[23:50:31] <frallzor> going to wallmount so I wouldnt trust a diy case =)
[23:50:54] <andypugh> I would trust that case to break the wall.
[23:51:40] <andypugh> Thats 20mm x 20mm extruded aluminium section as the frame. You could park a (small) car on it.
[23:52:16] <frallzor> not the best type of walls in the garage so I need as light as possible too
[23:56:07] <danimal_garage> see if you have any local electical surplus yards
[23:56:18] <danimal_garage> look for some nice hoffman enclosures
[23:56:30] <Valen> we are using a surplus cupbord
[23:56:36] <danimal_garage> i scored a few for about $20 each
[23:57:49] <Valen> we tried to fit ours into one that sort of size
[23:57:55] <Valen> didn't work lol