andypugh, I got it
So I'm thinking spindles, but i have NFI about them, specifically I want automagic tool change
I can provide the motor
just looking for the spinny bit that holds stuff
there was some activity on cnczone about that
and JoeV used to have a toolchanger kit
now if I could remember what Joe's last name is, that might be more helpful
[00:02:37] <Eric_K> http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/Automatic_Tool_Changer_Plans.htm
I'm wanting it for decent size stuff
Steal the Tormach idea?
[00:07:48] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrxHBsPyUj4
No, wait. that's not the one
heh its still pretty cool lol
[00:08:27] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kxw9d6kI7A&feature=related
Humm, seems I had a brain fart, stepgen works fine, just no seeing it on the other end of the parport cable, used a real O-scope for that, nothing.
So I need to work on that. Maybe, will check.
Thanks for all the help, bye.
terrylm, par port needs a pull up
The clever bit on that Tormach thing is the floating cylinder and the Bellville washers
terrylm: try the parport first
directly on the PC
the centronics spec is open collector
Ah, yes, parport is better at pulling down to earth than pushing up off earth
Interesting data, they reckon 2500lbs of drawbar tension on that system.
Having said that about parport pull-ups, in general they get wired to opto-coupled driver board inputs, so are pulled-up there anyway?
Or maybe I just got lucky?
yes, but testing open circuit confuses :)
bit me a week ago
Hmm, that reminds me. Today I was looking at the input to the motor controller IC on my servo drive board, and the motor speed changed every time I touched the probe to the pin. Which surprised me in x10 mode.
[00:38:10] <Danimal-office> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE8xAXmYv4Q
get one of those, i bet you can score one with a bad logic board for free, and just use classicladder to replace the internal logic
the chain that opens the door pops off if the door hits something, sometimes breaking the circuit boards inside
Hi everyone. We've disabled the +S chanmode for the time being. Normally, +S blocks users from joining a channel if they aren't connecting with SSL. If you still see +S in your channel's modelist, it will have *no effect*. For the now, you will be unable to add or remove this mode. We'll have a more permanent resolution asap. We're sorry for the inconvenience caused by our earlier technical difficulties.
I think that a motorcycle brake caliper would work nicely as the actuator in a power drawbar like that Tormach one, and that a second-hand ABS pump would be a cheap and easy way to source the hydraulic pressure.
my tool holders are threaded, i need a motorized drawbar
there's basically an electric impact gun on the top of mine, with an air cyl that lowers it down
I have read of quite a few folk doing that
40 taper tool holders
i didnt do it, that's how the machine came
similar to the kurt power drawbars that you can buy for bridgeports, except mine is electric instead of air
I assume you can get screw-in adaptors to turn threaded drawbar holders into pull-stud holders?
but then i'd have to change the internals of the spindle
And doesn't that sound like fun?
How big is the hole down the middle of the spindle? Only drawbar diameter, or do the drawbars have a centring collar? I have never had the need to look.
If if it 1" + then it's an easy-ish mod. If it's 1/2" then it isn't/
1 inch is still too small
I think you could fit a pull-stud collet and collet-closer in 1", though more would be better, certianly.
at least that's what she said
1" is still quite a big diamond.
I wouldn't mind a 1" diamonf
danimal_garage: how is the machining going?
dont know yet
I thought you started the project?
side linux question - has anyone had left clicking not registering in flash
debian, firefox, flash 10
that pvc mills nice
theres something to do with gtk or some such?
danimal_garage: what RPM are you using?
for that 3/4" endmill
started with 400
but i'll experiment
8ipm, .5" DOC
i doubled it, still seems to cut good
at 400RPM, and the material clamped down good, I suspect you could...
it's in a 3 jaw chuck with soft jaws
in the mill?
1050rpm and 25ipm
round within .002"
good enough for the roughing op
just gotta blow some air on it when it plunges
oh, so its a CNC mill?
makes things easier :)
still prefer my trusty old bridgeport when i can
i'm gunna fill up a couple trash cans with these chips
3" deep pocket, 3.6" in diameter
1" boss in the center
starting with 4" material
what kind of CNC mill do you have?
hmm if the finish lathe op goes ok, i actually quoted this pretty damn close
about 12 minutes to hog all that out
nice, that mill looks almost exactly like the one I got to use for 4 years at the other shop
with a bandit controller
there's a ton of them out there
yea this had a bandit
now its emc
feels like the first transistor mill ever made... lol
there's a smaller version of mine as well, i think it's an st-n or somethnig
with the bandit controller
my lathe beat that
it had tubes for the led's in the display
there is a guy that was down the road where I used to live... he had a machine that he got to program by moving pins around :-]
my surface grinder is the only iron i have that isnt older than i am
my first cnc program was made with paper tape
and even that is only 3 years younger
if you made a mistake and were lucky, you could punch extra holes
he used it to rough out a bunch of crimping dies that he makes for some big power company
otherwise you had to splice
how did the pin thing work?
it was actually kinda cool
the pins were in the back
(this is a lathe)
and the turret
when it indexed, also indexed the pins in the back
I think it had 6-7 tools or something
was it g-code?
the paper tape was g-code
and it was holes
just trying to think how a pin would let you cut 3.374" diameter
I didnt look too closely at how the pins actually worked
the turning tools were seperate
two OD turning tools
mounted on the base of the machine inside
I dont think the turret could be moved in the X direction
funny if people look back at what we are doing with the same sort of wonder
then used a slightly newer machine with a high tech monochrome CRT
1600rpm and 37ipm
it's too cold in the garage to make bike frames
he used a slightly newer machine with a high tech monochrome CRT screen and awesome power of 1980's transistors to finish the die
meh, I start graveyard shift tomorrow :/
its going to be a long night tonight
i've slowly migrated myself to second shift
got a 2ltr bottle of mountain dew for just that
though it comes with $1.40/hour more, so I'm alright with that
glad i bored these jaws, this thing wouldnt be cutting like this if i didnt
sounds like a blast over there... :-)
it's cutting great
freaked a guy looking at our mill out
just wrote a g3 into the MDI window and told it to run at 6000mm/m
in air of course
was just showing off ;->
its what I've got machine max set at atm
it'll probably do ~double that
more If i can get another power supply
need more volts ;->
anyway time to walk the dogs
what is a good company to get timing pullys and such?
i dunno, good question
I've always bought mine from McMaster
small parts.com or something?
now i can chat with 20 older gentlemen while i"m in bed
hmm now that i say it, it sounds less good
I need to take a shower now just thinking about it
all that luke warm water huh
time we had some young wenches :)
no, not a bath, quick shower to get the nastyness off :P
i have a nekked one of those in the bed too does tthat make it ok?
she is reading her book though
so probably best not to disturb her
(hence me installing an irc client on my phone for something to do)
I want to get the nokia N900 sometime
got a htc touch pro 2 here
has a real ish keyboard
whats the n900 like?
have you tried any bluetooth keyboards?
no this one is big enough ti do this on
donno... never used the N900, or for that matter, any other cellphone
seems fast enoungh for me
why not a n97 or iphone?
anyway lights out time
how's the weather up north?
SWPLinux: eh, dark clouds, 43ish
that was at 8pm last night
not much better here. 47 degrees
the weather channel says sunny, but there's a haze when I look out the window
SWPLinux: So, you setup for tonight already?
we left the equipment out last night, so we'll see how good an idea that was :)
SWPLinux: hair dryers, lots of hair dryers
or 10000 watts of lighting ...
a campfire med out of equipment
they have that mch security to leave $100K of gear outside?
and it's more than 100k of our stuff, then there's all the other stuff
SWPLinux: DUDE, you *HAVE* to get Lady Gaga
she's expected to show up
Hope so, she's a nomine
I don't think she's pre-booked for our rig, so it's up to her and her "handlers"
make a big ass sign "open invitation for Lady Gaga" and hold it up
this time, Jay Emmanuel is set up right next to us (he's the fashion guy on the E! channel I guess)
SWPLinux: Oh nice, you actually might be able to, as she was on an E! tv series
oh, didn't know that
this time we're handing out flash drives to the people as they leave, if they want them
with the little movie of them spinning
SWPLinux: Cool, I expect my email's 4m after
sadly, I don't have internet access onsite
though I suppose I could bring up the backup DSL line and hook up my laptop
I can wait, you'll have too much on your hands as it is
SWPLinux: We going to see you on tv tonight?
SWPLinux: Oh, I got my EC34 Serial card - nice!
SWPLinux: I totally forgot that my MBP has a EC34 slot, plugged it in and there it is
SWPLinux: MacBook Pro
yeah - got it :)
SWPLinux: Found out that VMWare Fusion does NOT support PHYSICAL serial ports, only virtual file based.
SWPLinux: so you have to dual boot into XP/whatever, but I'm going to check out VirtualBox sometime.
Jymmm: That might not be necessary, as the physical serial port might appear as a file in the Mac OS.
My USB-Serial convertor is a virtual file in /dev/
And writing HP-GL to that file operates the flatbed plotter
What is scrollkeeper-update up and why is it taking 95 of my cpu lol
Can anyone see this
did they fix itÉ
Yes, we can see you.
Ima do a apt-get remove scrollkeeper-update
is this kosher
I cant have it starting when I am cutting something
apparently, there's a lot that depends on scrollkeeper, like ubuntu-desktop
I can see the worry, but rtai should always get enough CPU to run.
this thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=578472
says you can replace scrollkeeper with "rarian"
the thing to do is run the latency test, and leave it running while scrollkeeper is doing its update
see if the latency spikes (possible, due to disk driver activity)
if not, then don't worry about it
if so, get rid of it
andy, I am working on auto homing the dual motor gantry
I have been thinking about that some more.
But you probably need to talk to people who have already done it.
I can find anybody....lol
My idea of having the "home" hal-pin through an AND block, but switching off the individual stepgens as they hit their own switch is probably unsubtle, as it allows no decell time.
that phase of homing shouldn't be very fast
I think I heard that SWP had done it.
you could run the stepgen velocity through a limit block while homing
So, run the velocity of each stepgen through a limit2 on velocity (or a limit3 on position?) http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/limit2.9.html
hmmm. no, that may not work
it's actually a position input to the stepgen, and it does its own accel internally
Also, the home sequence is different, isn't it?
I don't think so
this what I have so far
[16:04:02] <bevins> http://pastebin.ca/1773165
What happens if you set the stepgen maxvel to 0, does that stop the motor inside the limits?
isn't that a parameter, not a pin>
bevins: That is pretty much what I was thinking, but I think you need a stepgen for each motor on the Y, sharing a command input.
I haven got that far yet. Its not seeing my inputs lol
It might help to watch the existing stepgen position-cmd stuff during homing on the Halscope
the trick may be to change the way home is detected depending on what phase homing is in
the initial search phase (usually faster) should get an OR of the two switches
haha, lyou want me to drive on the interstate before I can drive on the backstreets. I just installed this and those big commands I dont know about yet...lol
then back off and do a slower search for the switch
but in that phase, the home input should be an AND of the two switches
this would be slow enough that stopping dead shouldn't be a problem
* frallzor cuddles with SWPLinux
it waits for the other input first
Have you found Halscope yet? It's in the Machine menu of axis, it is like a virtual oscilloscope where you can watch all the pins.
so you use the technique of disabling each stepgen as its home switch is hit
SWPLinux: That was what I was thinking, except that you could leave the home-switch as an AND if there was a way to stop a stepgen independent of the home sequence with an XOR.
yeah, I guess you could use an AND all the time, but there's a danger if the motors are far out of rack
ie disable each stepgen if it has hit the limit switch, but only if the other stepgen hasn't hit it's limit switch
you want to stop when either motor is at its switch in that higher speed initial search phase
yes, but it would rack the shit out of my gantry if one switch was hit by a wire broke or something
right, that's why you use the OR in the fast mode
my head hurts
you can also use a timer or something to stop the whole thing if it goes too long between one switch getting hit and the other
I am used to homing by running up to the limits fast, then backing off slowly.
sure, there's another mode that runs to the switch fast, backs off, then runs to the switch slowly
I suppose I could experiment by pretending that my X and Z were a tandem axis
hmm, >some< of this could roll over into homing all axis at once (maybe thats already emc2 already and my cfg doesnt use it)
yes, you can home any or all axes at once
andypugh: yeah i was just thinking of faking it with x&y
I do home all my axes at once, just give them all the same sequence number
you can also set up home all to home some, then others
like ABZ then XY or something
I am getting a joint 1 on limit switch error.
and a joint2 on limit switch errer
Is that limit switch 1 and two active
There is a joint.0. too
are the pins true on the hal meter? might have to invert them
I can't help feeling that we must be reinventing the wheel here.
Surely there are other dual-drive gantries out there?
I dont know I have the oscope up.....chineese
there are lots of dualdrive gantries
bevins: The Hal-meter might be clearer than the Halscope for simple stuff. It's in the same menu.
I would be out in my garage experimenting now, except my feet are still frozen from earlier.
1 is true but still get the error
Is that HAL you posted earlier still relevant?
I guess you might need to look at the inputs to the or-functions etc?
Aha! There is an axis.1.homing bit. That might be handy.
can I use emc2 without homing
set the xyz manually
Yes. In fact I thought you were?
no I havent cut anything yet
Homing is useful. Apart from anything else it means that G-Code files that will hit the limit switches get flagged at the start, not half way through.
yes but I need to get cutting
how do I set the xyz manually
besides dual booting into winblows and using mach3
There is no reason that you can't just push the axis to the end stops and then home it there from the GUI. (if the limit inputs are not wired in HAL then you can just select "home axis" in the GUI and it homes where it is.
I would suggest, for the time being, leaving the X and Z axes homing to switches, and setting the Y axis home velocity to 0 in the INI file. That should give you manual homing on Y
I feel sure that this is a solved problem. Have you asked on the mailing list?
no I havent yet
I wanted to try and dio it first so I know what I am talking about
hi all - wired up the cnc machine last night.... i may not have enough power going in? it doesn't move, but i hear the motors twitch a bit
i can get them to twitch in one way or the other from EMC - and those were some very gratifying twitches... but no motion
i've got 24V 1A going in, and each motor really wants 1.4A-2A
Try inverting the step signals in stepconf
ok - you don't think i need to get a new power supply?
i'm looking at this guy here http://cgi.ebay.com/350W-36V-DC-10A-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply-K008_W0QQitemZ170431336914QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27ae7fd1d2
(Assuming you used Stepconf to create the config)
Yes, I am sure you need a new power supply, but you might not find one on a sunday evening.
That looks just like mine.
you're a good soul andy - i'm geekin' big time today (we got major snow) :)
so do you think that power supply looks ok? too much? i'm wondering whether one of the computer power supplies would work?
is the twitch right at power up? or when?
I tried a computer power supply, and it wasn't successful, it kept getting upset and shutting down. They also need a certain minimum load on the +5V or they don't regulate.
ok - no the twitch comes when i click on the manual axis control
and it'll start making a whining noise until the direction is changed from positive to negative
stepper? (if so, uncouple the load, dont if servo )
if you go positive-negative-positive lots of times does it move a little bit? That could be step and direction wires swapped.
after uncoupling see if the motor turns (it has no load now )
if it jiggles & whines in 1 dir, and is dead in other, i agree with andy, wires are swapped, if it move w/o load, i bet the ps is too weak for the load ( try to free it up or get more power )
ok - sorry jumping back and forth between here and machine area :)
does the pyvcp example of grid packer work for anyone? Integrators manual "18.104.22.168 Table"
it just the 5th line should be <label> not <label text>
(and wrapped in <pyvcp> ... </pyvcp> ;)
how dare you talk badly of the integrator's manual!
yea, real men dont use one anyways
how's the lathe coming?
getting some wires hooked up today
doing a latency test on the doner computer, been running all morning at it is at 7671 for base and 5755 for servo
fairly close to my lathe's
the mill is about 12000
used my lathe for the first time yesterday
only used mdi, but it was wayyy faster than doing it manually
my mastercam is giving me issues so i havent written a program for it yet
something about the axises not being configured right
ot: end it all is an option on my phone
i did realize you cant do any sort of long parts on this lathe though
friggin turret is in the way
even though it has like 12" of travel in z, you can only turn the od of something maybe 3 inches long, max
that's somewhat limiting
and even then, you loose all rigidity
cause the tool has to hang way out
Eric_K: your phone has a suicide app?
or a world destruction app?
yeah, it's on a button on the right hand side :)
I was afraid to push it
i hope it at least has a safety lock on it
"are you sure?"
hate for that to go off in your pocket
a friggin jolly rancher ends it all.
I'm trying to upload the ring tone from the geico ad: ringedydingdingdong
haha my little puppy is a friggin bruiser
she beats the crap out of my big dog
my dog just had ear cancer surgery
aww how's he/she doing?
got a notch out of his ear
we used to call him the Colby cheese dog, now he's swiss
mine are bugging me for a walk, i better go
well, the little dog ate her leash
it's in a million pieces
so no walk
tom3p: in a bit this page will be current for your example http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//hal_pyvcp.html#r1_6_7
you might have to refresh it in a half an hour or so
numen__ is now known as numen
if somebody you dont know emails you out of the blue and asks for your hal, ini, and clp files, do you usually send them?
peoples email names often dont match irc nicks, but no one has asked me, dunno
i'm guessing someone gave them my email
no biggie, i dont mind helping, just curious if it was common practice
copying doesnt seem like a good way to learn though
danimal_garage: copying and changing is very important way to learn
if you think that files you would send can be used without permission, simply don't send them
guess you're right, just wasnt the way i learned
but maybe thats why it took so long for me to figure it out lol
i just read the manual and asked questions if i was stumped
danimal_garage: it very depends of thing you want to learn
it was the ladder they were most interested in
they dont know classicladder
I'll start learning classicladder soon
same way as you
classicladder is pretty easy to understand, it's just hard to figure out what you want/need it to do
some of the parameters could get complicated too i guess
jthornton: thx, still trying to figure the rules for flexible_rows="" vs flexible_rows="[1,2,3,6]" etc and watching how it affects layouts
jthornton: give me an url for how to chg them myself
yes you must clearly specify what to do
for me the hard part was the fact that you need to think the whole ladder through, because something at the end will effect what happens in the beginning
so basically i had to have the whole thing memorized
danimal_garage: pencil and paper is your friend, saves lot of time
yea, i learned that on the second machine
you're building for selling?
my personal machines
I'm building for selling but I'm begining to design machine for me only
I have almost forgotten why I am building.
i wouldnt sell mine, too much liability
EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
I have been thinking some more on this dual-drive gantry stuff.
Is the solution to have two completely separate logical axes which can move (and home) independently, though simultaneously, and to use a mux block to divert the position command of one into the other when the "homing" bit is not set.
The drawback I see is that the "internal" position of the secondary axis will tend to be wrong most of the time. What problems would that cause?
emc understand tan, sin and cos... does it also understand pi?
I had to set a constant for pi in one of my gcode progs
Is there a bit-version of mux2?
or do you have to use conv_bit_u32 then conv_u32_float in front of the mux then conv_float_u32 then conv_u32_bit on the output?
Hi ppl, has anyone tried to run EMC with servos including PID? Is there any simple starting point ?
There are some sample servo configs as part of the standard installation.
There is a servo-sim for playing about with without hardware, etch-servo and a number of hm2-servo variants if you have a Mesa card.
Thanks. Just getting started and using an old plotter as a testbench. It can be controlled with voltage message to absolute position.
looks like most of the examples are requiring real feedback and letting EMC do PID.
yes the loop is in emc
andypugh: I need to calculate some angle using tan and pi....
Sorry, my question was about using a mux-block in hal with bit signals, not related to your pi question.
And I see that all the examples do it the long way round...
andypugh: Ahhh ok :)
It seems that it is probably possible with pure boolean logic.
is it possible to 'inspect' variables like #2000 for example during program execution?
use a comment like (DEBUG,#2000)
ive seen some of those cnc laser engraver, by hacking a couple printer jobs around the net lately. anyone built one ?
ries: Altrnatively, and with more work, you can write them to an analogue output which is wired in hal to a pyVCP control. It rather depends on how often it changes. and whether the scrolling numbers obliterate too much of your Axis screen.
Having said that, I can't immediately see which M-code puts values on the motion.analog-out-NN pins.
cradek: Ahh ok... O solved my problem already, but that's good to know
andypugh: in this case I needed a static number caluclated, and I wasn't sure if teh value was correct
Ah, cradek: have you seen any answers to the dual-drive gantry homing question?
Do we have any reason to beleive it has been done?
Searching the archives shows at least three queries, but I haven't seen an answer
Sorry, focus-switch booch
I think people get stuff working and then lose the desire to communicate about it
andypugh: I have seen similar questions on the mechmate forum...
also about auto squaring.... it's on my todo, but currently found a easer way (non automated) way to square my gantry
Well, if I get this working I will communicate it, because I dont even have a dual-drive-gantry!
frankly I'm kind of tired of people wanting a solution handed to them when I think you can do it any number of ways in hal
maybe everyone is tired of the question
I suspect that the best way is to have two independent axes that home simultaneously, but then get slaved together when homing is off.
that's how gantrykins works I think (but you mean independent joints)
I can pick it up at some stage... I have a gantry with dual motors, but first I have some other items to understand... I am working on my give back project pythoin code to make dovetails in wood...
I might mean joints, yes. Though my thought was an X,Y,Z,V setup, with V slaved to Y.
you'd have to write V and Y together in all your gcode then. if using kins, you want both joints to be one axis (Y)
I was trying to find a way to wire two stepgens to one axis. That works, but makes homing-with-squaring non-trivial.
for steppers it seems easy to me - just turn off the step pulses for the one that's ahead until they line up
And the inelegant idea was to home Y and V, but then ignore V, directing the Y-axis position command to both stepgens.
IMO you don't want to use V for anything
I have just finished a HAL that does exactly what you just suggested. (Or might)
The only issue is that as I have it on the initial homing rapid one side will crash-stop, and the second will cruise to a stop.
yeah you'll have to go slow to keep position on those quick stops and starts
I suspect that rebooting my EMC machine using the main power breaker to the garage is inelegant.
andypugh: mux2bit http://pastebin.ca/1773735
can run in fast thread, no floats
thanks tom3p: I will keep that, but suspect it isn't an option for this HAL file which isn't for my use. (No, I am not sure why I am writing it either)
its not part of the distro, i wrote for my own velocity mode motion
i rewrote a lot of comps to other data types to keep some things fast
Yes, I remember you mentioning the bit-mux. Well, I remembered somebody mentioning it.