#emc | Logs for 2010-01-26

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[00:01:23] <ries> anybody happen to be into sign making (wood working)?
[00:02:41] <Jymmm> "YOU CAN DO IT!"
[00:03:01] <Jymmm> ries: did you have a question?
[00:05:38] <ries> Jymmm: yes... well, that was my first question to see if there are people here doing just that
[00:05:53] <ries> My second question would have been to see what software they use to design there signs
[00:06:30] <WalterN> anybody know of a good place to get a pack of 6" basterd and second cut files?
[00:06:43] <WalterN> oh, and single cut
[00:06:54] <WalterN> (mill type)
[00:06:55] <SWPadnos> mcmaster?
[00:07:02] <Jymmm> hf
[00:07:08] <Jymmm> use enco
[00:07:13] <Jymmm> grizzly
[00:07:13] <WalterN> MSC seems expensive...
[00:07:15] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, a good place
[00:07:48] <WalterN> HF? enco?
[00:07:59] <SWPadnos> HF == harbor freight
[00:08:06] <SWPadnos> cheap and inexpensive stuff
[00:08:50] <SWPadnos> http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/2604/=5j8m7m
[00:09:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm. that didn't work
[00:09:34] <Jymmm> right click, this frame only
[00:09:43] <SWPadnos> mcmaster.com, click on "files", in the "Abrading and polishing" section
[00:10:03] <Jymmm> actually, that link worked for me
[00:10:18] <Jymmm> Hand Files
[00:10:22] <SWPadnos> I may have a weird setting (or two) in SeaMonkey
[00:10:24] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:10:26] <Jymmm> Abot Foles
[00:10:29] <Jymmm> About Files
[00:11:06] <Jymmm> http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=files&Submit=Go
[00:11:25] <Jymmm> if you just need a cheap set to start with
[00:11:37] <WalterN> neh
[00:12:08] <WalterN> I found that the 6" mill cut coarse file worked really well
[00:12:33] <SWPadnos> wow. there's a place selling CNC lathe time (on a Citizen machine) for $12.99/hour
[00:12:43] <SWPadnos> that's pretty darned cheap
[00:16:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: $2000 signup?
[00:16:31] <SWPadnos> nope, doesn't look that way
[00:16:42] <SWPadnos> there's another place for $0.99/hour, in China
[00:16:48] <Jymmm> ah
[00:16:55] <WalterN> hmm... here is one for $3.75/each at wttool.com
[00:17:00] <SWPadnos> the first one is in Texas
[00:18:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Dont you HAVE a lathe already?
[00:18:23] <WalterN> I need a lathe :(
[00:18:23] <SWPadnos> damn: http://cgi.ebay.com/MURATA-MW-16II-CNC-TWIN-SPINDLE-LATHE-CHUCKER-GANTRY_W0QQitemZ390147964807QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Lathes?hash=item5ad6a17f87
[00:18:30] <SWPadnos> yes, if only it worked :)
[00:18:32] <WalterN> with C axes
[00:18:42] <SWPadnos> and I had time to fix it up
[00:18:44] <WalterN> and a USB port would be nice :P
[00:18:58] <SWPadnos> nah. don't need that
[00:18:58] <Jymmm> WalterN: No, it wouldn't.
[00:19:05] <WalterN> no?
[00:19:38] <WalterN> for a flash drive
[00:19:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, how long is the drive to warren mi ?
[00:19:59] <SWPadnos> 1.07 days or so
[00:20:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Sing it with me... "On the road again...."
[00:20:28] <SWPadnos> just can't wait to get another Jeep again ...
[00:20:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ?
[00:20:40] <Jymmm> i thought you had a van
[00:20:54] <SWPadnos> that lathe weighs 11000 pounds, and my Jeep can only tow 6500
[00:20:56] <SWPadnos> I had one
[00:21:05] <SWPadnos> which had zero tow capacity
[00:21:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 26ft ryder truck?
[00:21:24] <SWPadnos> nope, not enough payload (believe it or not)
[00:21:32] <Jymmm> ?
[00:21:35] <SWPadnos> and not tall enough
[00:21:41] <Jymmm> 30 ft
[00:21:46] <SWPadnos> look it up, their payloads are surprisingly small
[00:21:51] <Jymmm> ah
[00:21:56] <SWPadnos> I checked ;)
[00:22:12] <eric_unterhausen> I don't think Ohio would let you on their turnpike with that much weight on a single rear axle
[00:22:25] <SWPadnos> I'd use a dual-axle trailer
[00:22:34] <SWPadnos> you have to to get that weight rating
[00:25:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: RC hot air balloon =)
[00:25:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: helicopter
[00:25:32] <SWPadnos> HINDENBURG!
[00:25:44] <eric_unterhausen> w/ an RC parachute
[00:25:55] <Jymmm> CRUNCH
[00:26:11] <SWPadnos> here's one for you Jymmm: http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-OKUMA-LB15-CNC-TURNING-CENTER-FOR-REPAIR_W0QQitemZ150407018438QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Lathes?hash=item2304f4f7c6
[00:26:41] <Jymmm> I know where that address is too
[00:26:50] <eric_unterhausen> I'm sick, I want it
[00:27:06] <Jymmm> Selling as is for parts or repair. No returns. Specifications are to the best of our knowledge. Please verify or inspect. Machine is located at our Irwindale, Ca. warehouse.
[00:27:37] <eric_unterhausen> they took all the nuts off the collet holders in the tool changer because they couldn't get the toolholders out
[00:28:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You think it'll run off a xylotex board?
[00:29:02] <SWPadnos> sure
[00:29:07] <SWPadnos> (for a nanosecond)
[00:29:27] <Jymmm> cool!
[00:30:08] <Jymmm> 1985
[00:30:13] <eric_unterhausen> wonder what the hydraulics are for
[00:30:40] <Jymmm> part eject?
[00:31:02] <Jymmm> since it looks like it was part of a conveyor system
[00:31:43] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Now to get it to run on 120VAC@15A
[00:32:07] <eric_unterhausen> I guess that's the coolant pump
[00:32:10] <SWPadnos> rrrreeeeeaaaalllllll sssssslllllllooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww
[00:32:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: as in net ever
[00:32:45] <Jymmm> never
[00:33:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: So, you home for a while?
[00:33:53] <SWPadnos> until early Thursday morning
[00:33:57] <SWPadnos> so no :)
[00:34:01] <Jymmm> Oh man
[00:34:55] <SWPadnos> back to LA for the Grammys
[00:35:14] <Jymmm> do you have todo anything or just babysit?
[00:35:31] <SWPadnos> I make sure the camera system works, which should be cake, but rarely is
[00:35:37] <Jymmm> ah
[00:35:56] <Jymmm> is that 24 billable hours a day?
[00:36:04] <SWPadnos> no, only about 12
[00:36:08] <Jymmm> bastards!
[00:36:08] <SWPadnos> plus expenses
[00:36:13] <Jymmm> eh, ok
[00:36:18] <SWPadnos> but I don't work 24 hours a day, so it evens out
[00:36:28] <Jymmm> just 23.5 ?
[00:36:54] <SWPadnos> no, I take time for meals
[00:37:00] <SWPadnos> and you know me in that department
[00:37:01] <Jymmm> 23.4
[00:37:05] <SWPadnos> 2.34
[00:37:12] <Jymmm> yes, yes I do =)
[00:37:20] <SWPadnos> it's usually 10 hour days or thereabouts
[00:37:23] <SWPadnos> so not too bad
[00:37:31] <Jymmm> ok, that's not so bad
[00:38:00] <SWPadnos> and I generally get a couple kbucks for a short job like that, so it's OK by me
[00:38:23] <Jymmm> Expenses incude: Getting out a foreighn bed tax, and getting into a foreighn bed tax
[00:38:28] <SWPadnos> (plus expenses and the frequent flier miles)
[00:38:48] <Jymmm> oh you get a tip?
[00:38:55] <danimal_garage> SWPadnos: i used that modmath component, and it seems to work well.
[00:38:58] <SWPadnos> gotta show receipts though, and they don't pay for getting people into bed :)
[00:39:01] <SWPadnos> cool
[00:39:19] <danimal_garage> got a couple questions on it though
[00:39:24] <SWPadnos> uh-oh
[00:39:32] <SWPadnos> do I have to look at the source to answer?
[00:39:36] <danimal_garage> simple ones i would think
[00:39:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: you should bring the wifey
[00:39:39] <danimal_garage> i doubt it
[00:39:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: if she like the grammys that is
[00:40:00] <SWPadnos> I offered, but she decided not to bother
[00:40:04] <danimal_garage> tool turret max, and tool turret wrap
[00:40:05] <Jymmm> ah
[00:40:17] <SWPadnos> she'd have to take off work, and I'd be working all day, so it's not like a real vacation
[00:40:41] <SWPadnos> danimal_garage, I wonder what the difference is
[00:40:50] <danimal_garage> what exactly does tool turret wrap mean? is that the digit that it starts on?
[00:40:55] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: It's hollyweird, she could get lost and never get bored. If freak watching is a fun even tthere
[00:41:02] <SWPadnos> danimal_garage, lemme check
[00:41:04] <Jymmm> s/if/even/
[00:41:08] <danimal_garage> so if max is 24, and wrap is 1, does it go from 1-24?
[00:41:15] <SWPadnos> she's not really unto the hollywood thing much
[00:41:22] <SWPadnos> possible
[00:41:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Freak watching is fun!
[00:41:33] <SWPadnos> since the tool numbers could start at 1 or 0
[00:42:08] <danimal_garage> SWPadnos: yea, my counter starts at zero, so i'm not sure if i should have the mathmod parameters set at 0-23
[00:42:12] <SWPadnos> oh. wrap is a bit
[00:42:26] <SWPadnos> you could have a linear array, or a turret that spins
[00:42:41] <SWPadnos> if you have a turret that spins, you need to set wrap=1
[00:42:45] <danimal_garage> mine spins (in a sense)
[00:42:46] <SWPadnos> else set wrap=0
[00:43:00] <SWPadnos> yes. now I'm not sure how to set it up so it always goes forward
[00:43:26] <danimal_garage> i dont exactly want it to go forward, my turret can go either way
[00:43:33] <SWPadnos> oh, ok
[00:43:35] <danimal_garage> i want it to take the shortest route
[00:43:49] <SWPadnos> ok, it'll do that if you set wrap to 1
[00:44:03] <SWPadnos> min_num is the lowerst number, max_num is the highest number
[00:44:11] <SWPadnos> so 0 and 7 for you, I guess
[00:44:20] <Jymmm> bbiab
[00:44:24] <danimal_garage> this is for my mill
[00:44:29] <SWPadnos> oh
[00:44:30] <danimal_garage> i have 1-24
[00:44:43] <SWPadnos> in that case they're 1 and 24
[00:44:47] <SWPadnos> makes sense, no? :)
[00:44:58] <danimal_garage> i didnt see a min_num in the mazak demo, so i was unaware of that parameter
[00:45:02] <SWPadnos> what's the position feedback like
[00:45:35] <SWPadnos> you could always use halcmd to see everything that's available
[00:45:47] <SWPadnos> halcmd show all mod-dir
[00:46:35] <danimal_garage> the position feedback is a signal every time it passes a tool. There's no bit assignment like the hardinge
[00:46:49] <danimal_garage> just one pulse per tool, so i need a counter
[00:46:55] <SWPadnos> ok, but there's an index mark or something?
[00:47:07] <SWPadnos> so you know when you've hit tool 1
[00:47:10] <danimal_garage> i have to home it out when i start up the machine
[00:47:13] <SWPadnos> ok
[00:47:42] <danimal_garage> which i have it to automatically durring the first tool change (cradek's idea)
[00:47:48] <SWPadnos> ok
[00:48:15] <SWPadnos> can you set the counter to something arbitrary at startup?
[00:48:20] <SWPadnos> like -24
[00:48:37] <danimal_garage> probably
[00:48:59] <danimal_garage> the counter value is writable
[00:49:00] <SWPadnos> then it counts up as it spins (modmath will tell it to go forward anyway, I think), but the counter will reset to 0 when the index is hit
[00:49:17] <SWPadnos> and then it'll continue toward its destination
[00:49:22] <danimal_garage> the index doesnt hit unless it's in homing mode
[00:49:28] <SWPadnos> oh
[00:49:35] <SWPadnos> nevermind
[00:50:16] <SWPadnos> I suppose I should convert that component to a comp, so there will be a manpage for it
[00:50:52] <danimal_garage> yea, it's a neat component, i wouldnt have known about it if you didnt tell me
[00:51:51] <danimal_garage> i could just be lazy and use t0-t23
[00:52:04] <SWPadnos> ?
[00:52:13] <SWPadnos> oh, tool numbers
[00:52:22] <danimal_garage> instead of trying to figure out how to shift it from 1-24
[00:52:35] <danimal_garage> so when i call up tool 0, it'll be tool 1
[00:52:35] <SWPadnos> no, you probably don't want to do that, if you may want to use cradek's random toolchange stuff
[00:52:59] <SWPadnos> can you have the counter reset to 1 instead of 0?
[00:53:22] <danimal_garage> i can have the counter set to zero after the home signal is present
[00:53:32] <danimal_garage> so it'll home to zero instead of 1
[00:53:49] <danimal_garage> and maybe when it does the overflow, i can preset the value to 1
[00:54:01] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[00:54:11] <SWPadnos> where are the sensors, relative to the tool pockets?
[00:54:15] <danimal_garage> i think there's a way, i'm just new to all of this
[00:54:20] <SWPadnos> ie, between or "on" the pocket
[00:54:37] <danimal_garage> it triggers when it's on the pocket
[00:54:59] <SWPadnos> debounce could be an issue
[00:55:15] <danimal_garage> i got a filter
[00:55:35] <SWPadnos> and you need to be sure that the counter dir pin is fed from the right place - it needs to count down when the carousel is rotating backwards
[00:55:47] <danimal_garage> yea, i just fixed that
[00:55:48] <SWPadnos> but not before there's motion ...
[00:56:12] <danimal_garage> i have alot of room for error with the tool position
[00:56:26] <SWPadnos> but no room for counting errors
[00:56:40] <SWPadnos> the counter can only see make/break cycles, and it counts whenever it sees one
[00:56:46] <danimal_garage> there's a motor with a cam, and every time it makes a full rotation, it moves the tool and triggers the switch
[00:57:12] <SWPadnos> ok, so there should be a lot of slop between the control output and the feedback getting actuated
[00:57:30] <danimal_garage> i have a timer for the counter signals to debounce them
[00:57:36] <danimal_garage> 500ms
[00:57:48] <danimal_garage> (it's a slow toolchanger)
[00:57:49] <SWPadnos> then there's the debounce component ...
[00:58:33] <danimal_garage> well the same signal also tells the ladder when it's done removing the tool, inserting the tool, etc
[00:58:45] <danimal_garage> so i didnt want to filter it for anything but the counter
[00:59:11] <danimal_garage> i guess i could still do that with hal anyways
[00:59:17] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:59:28] <SWPadnos> the raw input could go to multiple component inputs
[00:59:35] <danimal_garage> yea
[00:59:55] <danimal_garage> good point
[01:00:03] <SWPadnos> but that's odd - the same input switch tells the system when a tool pocket is reached, when the tool is in place, etc. ???
[01:00:12] <danimal_garage> and when it's homed
[01:00:17] <SWPadnos> huh?
[01:00:20] <danimal_garage> one wire does all!
[01:00:42] <SWPadnos> are you talking to a PLC or something?
[01:00:58] <danimal_garage> yea the toolchanger has built in logic
[01:01:05] <SWPadnos> oh. that sucks
[01:01:34] <danimal_garage> what sucks is the signal is 100ms long, so i gotta put a timer in front of every function, otherwise i get overlap with the input signal
[01:01:57] <danimal_garage> and then it thinks it's done with the next sequence before it's even started
[01:02:13] <SWPadnos> um. you need to look at that logic very carefully
[01:02:29] <danimal_garage> i have the book for the toolchanger
[01:02:37] <SWPadnos> that's helpful
[01:03:05] <danimal_garage> seems pretty simple
[01:03:23] <SWPadnos> does it emit different length pulses depending on what's happening?
[01:03:28] <danimal_garage> nope
[01:03:30] <danimal_garage> all 100ms
[01:03:30] <WalterN> here is an ebay dozen pack of nicholson 6" mill basterd files for $48 (including shipping)
[01:04:25] <danimal_garage> it's actually working pretty good, it seems. i just have a few mechanical things to fix
[01:04:35] <danimal_garage> like the door, and a few air leaks
[01:05:21] <SWPadnos> well, if all signals are 100 ms long, you can just set the delay timer / debounce to 99 ms (in case of latency/jitter), and use the output of that as the signal to everything else
[01:05:22] <WalterN> danimal_g
[01:05:30] <SWPadnos> you should only need one timer/debounce
[01:05:32] <WalterN> erm
[01:05:38] <WalterN> stupid tab button
[01:05:46] <WalterN> danimal_garage: what kind of machine do you have?
[01:06:08] <danimal_garage> WalterN: this one is a shizuoka mill
[01:06:24] <WalterN> nice
[01:06:30] <danimal_garage> thanks
[01:06:34] <WalterN> I need a mill :/
[01:06:49] <WalterN> and a lathe
[01:06:51] <WalterN> and money
[01:06:52] <danimal_garage> SWPadnos: i need the timers before every function
[01:06:53] <WalterN> lol
[01:07:10] <SWPadnos> every what function?
[01:07:17] <SWPadnos> CL, HAL ...
[01:07:40] <danimal_garage> because the timer is 100ms long, so it stays on long enough to overlap into the next sequence, which tricks the ladder into thinking that sequence is finished
[01:07:48] <SWPadnos> you should only need one, and it can reject anything less than 99ms or so, given that the output should remain high for 100ms
[01:07:58] <danimal_garage> function; tool in, tool out, turret rotate, etc
[01:08:10] <SWPadnos> the ladder should require a low before stepping into the next phase
[01:08:40] <danimal_garage> ok good point, i can use a falling edge coil
[01:09:13] <SWPadnos> is there a guarantee that the output will be low for 100ms also?
[01:09:26] <SWPadnos> (it sounds like it should be, given the lack of speed you mentioned)
[01:09:45] <danimal_garage> sometimes it double triggers (a glitch)
[01:09:59] <danimal_garage> so i have a timer to filter the second one out
[01:10:08] <danimal_garage> there's plenty of time for that
[01:10:10] <SWPadnos> I think that debounce would take care of that actually
[01:10:39] <danimal_garage> yea
[01:10:40] <SWPadnos> once the 99ms has passed and its output is high, debounce would require the input to go low for 99ms before toggling back
[01:10:46] <SWPadnos> it would eliminate low glitches as well as high
[01:11:19] <danimal_garage> i tihnk the space is equal, so high for 100ms, low for 100ms
[01:12:23] <SWPadnos> ok. in that case I think debounce set to 99 ms or so is your best bet
[01:12:30] <SWPadnos> and get rid of all the timers in ladder
[01:12:42] <SWPadnos> well, all the ones that filter the input anyway
[01:12:55] <danimal_garage> even my built in bathroom break timer?
[01:13:05] <SWPadnos> no, not that one
[01:13:09] <danimal_garage> ok good
[01:13:12] <SWPadnos> unless it's also set for 100ms timeout ;)
[01:13:22] <danimal_garage> ha
[01:13:32] <danimal_garage> yea, that definitely means something is wrong
[01:13:54] <SWPadnos> if your pee timer is set to 100ms, please see your doctor
[01:14:10] <danimal_garage> i'd be more scared if my #2 timer was 100ms
[01:14:16] <SWPadnos> indeed
[01:14:23] <danimal_garage> well thanks for the tips
[01:14:27] <SWPadnos> sure
[01:14:46] <danimal_garage> cant wait to finish it
[01:14:54] <danimal_garage> it'll free me up quite a bit
[01:15:07] <SWPadnos> I'm sure
[01:18:36] <danimal_garage> i think i figured out how to fix the tool # offset
[01:41:44] <danimal_garage> hmm i'm having problems with an assignment block, it locks up and crashes classicladder when i try to insert it
[01:42:33] <danimal_garage> is this the right format? -[(%iw1-1)=%qw2]-
[01:42:55] <danimal_garage> they are capitalized in the ladder
[01:44:51] <SWPadnos> you can't assign something like a-1 = b
[01:45:00] <SWPadnos> you could say b=a+1 though
[01:46:54] <danimal_garage> ok yea i just figured that out
[01:47:00] <danimal_garage> its working now
[01:47:03] <danimal_garage> thanks
[01:47:09] <SWPadnos> sure
[01:47:15] <danimal_garage> the polish in me does everything backwards
[01:47:44] <SWPadnos> yoda like you are
[01:47:58] <danimal_garage> ha
[01:48:50] <danimal_garage> i think this is gunna work
[01:49:29] <danimal_garage> i just did a tool # called -1 before anything that needed it
[01:50:09] <SWPadnos> make sure you have logic in there so that the turret only gets moved while EMC is in the "machine on" state
[01:50:34] <SWPadnos> or with some panel override button held in
[01:50:42] <SWPadnos> you wouldn't want it surprising anyone
[01:50:58] <danimal_garage> haha yea
[01:57:09] <danimal_garage> it seems to work
[02:05:47] <danimal_garage> yep i'd say success
[02:08:11] <skunkworks> Isn't emc awesome?
[02:08:17] <danimal_garage> indeed
[02:08:46] <danimal_garage> it's a bitch to learn if you arent already savvy with this kind of stuff, but when you do figure it out, it's alot of fun
[02:08:58] <danimal_garage> i'm almost to that point
[02:11:08] <danimal_garage> i was scurred to get into ladder, but all in all, it's easier than hal
[02:11:47] <danimal_garage> i think it helped me understand how hal works a little more as well
[02:12:33] <skunkworks> heh - I feel more comfortable in hal at teh moment.
[02:13:46] <danimal_garage> yea i guess it isnt easier to write a ladder (especially a complex one), but it's easier for me to understand the coils than the hal pins, signals, components, etc
[02:15:13] <danimal_garage> when do you think your machine will be up and running?
[02:19:20] <skunkworks> I don't know - lots of things to do yet...
[02:19:37] <skunkworks> I have been only working on it a few days a week. maybe even less.
[02:19:37] <danimal_garage> yea sounds like a big project
[02:20:04] <danimal_garage> got any pics of the whole machine? i've only seen pics of the stuff you've done to it
[02:20:46] <skunkworks> this is the picture from the manual
[02:20:47] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
[02:21:42] <skunkworks> this is a messy current picture http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCCurrent.JPG
[02:23:23] <dan1mal> oh wow
[02:23:27] <dan1mal> thats impressive
[02:23:52] <dan1mal> probably biggest emc retrofit yet, huh?
[02:24:29] <dan1mal> trying to upload a video of my toolchanger
[02:24:36] <dan1mal> taking a few minutes
[02:24:55] <skunkworks> No - stuart has some really big machines running emc
[02:25:23] <dan1mal> oh i dont know who that is
[02:25:45] <dan1mal> makes my mill look like a drill press though
[02:26:02] <dan1mal> how many positions is that toolchanger?
[02:26:24] <skunkworks> like this.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35tHYaDUmZQ&feature=channel
[02:26:49] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxxdq6y8z8M&feature=channel
[02:26:57] <skunkworks> 60 tools
[02:27:41] <dan1mal> nice
[02:28:02] <dan1mal> i'll have to check out the links on my other pc, my wifi connection is sucking ass
[02:30:49] <Danimal> ugggggh slow ass connection
[02:32:34] <Danimal> here we go
[02:32:36] <Danimal> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRrZkYil16g
[02:33:46] <Valen> lol that is cool
[02:33:53] <Danimal> thanks
[02:34:03] <Danimal> i know, i need to clean my machine
[02:34:40] <Valen> it just seems like such an over the top action
[02:35:27] <Danimal> as long as it works :)
[02:35:46] <Danimal> i'm scared to rely on it lol
[02:35:54] <Valen> lol always the way
[02:35:59] <Danimal> i dont think i'll be leaving it unattended
[02:36:13] <Danimal> not any time soon anyways
[02:36:41] <Valen> the coolant and spindle turning off when the jobs are finished now is so cool
[02:36:55] <Danimal> haha isnt it??
[02:37:07] <Danimal> i just got that working not too long ago myself
[02:38:17] <Danimal> it's neat when you first get stuff like that working
[02:38:46] <skunkworks> cool
[02:39:00] <Danimal> thanks
[02:39:14] <Danimal> still gotta put the chain on the door so it opens and closes
[02:39:37] <Danimal> and i got a sticky selanoid
[02:39:51] <Danimal> got a few air leaks to fix too
[02:40:16] <Danimal> but i guess that's to be expected. it's 30 years old
[02:43:14] <Danimal> lol it's funny watching my puppy try to beat up on my older dog.
[02:43:21] <Danimal> he humours her
[02:43:43] <Danimal> but if she only knew what he could really do to her if he tried
[03:06:02] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is back! this ir your only warning
[03:06:43] <danimal_garage> lock up your sons!
[03:07:55] <Jymmm> Well, shower head replaced. we'll see how it goes - gotta be better than a high powered jet of water hitting your back!
[03:08:19] <danimal_garage> ha
[03:08:28] <danimal_garage> yea i guess so
[03:12:13] <Jymmm> This is cool... http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347
[03:14:54] <danimal_garage> neat
[03:16:15] <Jymmm> yeah it is
[03:17:11] <danimal_garage> i wonder how they estimate the size of the universe?
[03:17:26] <Jymmm> time
[03:17:40] <Jymmm> I know how, but I cant explain it.
[03:26:24] <Jymmm> Danimal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe#Size_of_the_observable_universe
[03:30:59] <danimal_garage> weird
[03:31:28] <Jymmm> It's actually jsut comparisons
[03:32:49] <danimal_garage> we need to make a space ship that'll do a billion light years an hour
[03:32:55] <danimal_garage> :)
[03:33:51] <Jymmm> If you can do the speed of light, you can travel anywhere/anytime in the blink of an eye.
[03:34:11] <LawrenceG> Jymmm, so... are you a little soggy down there?
[03:34:31] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: last week was the worse, not so bad now
[03:35:39] <LawrenceG> it has actually been a great winter here... we need another 6 weeks to get out of the possible snow dump season
[03:36:24] <Jymmm> I wouldn't be hurt in the least if this damn cold rain would just go away
[03:37:16] <LawrenceG> raining here as well, but no ice and snow except on the mountains where it can be optionally enjoyed
[04:38:02] <tom3p> the infinite improbability drive
[04:38:20] <danimal_garage> to where?
[04:39:31] <danimal_garage> and can i come?
[04:57:01] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[08:06:46] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[08:13:15] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[08:18:45] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[09:23:46] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[09:45:02] <Valen> so was thinking granite/epoxy mills
[09:47:29] <Valen> the steel has a coefficent of expansion of ~15um/m and the granite epoxy is ~8 or so
[09:47:52] <Valen> which over a half meter slide is .3mm of difference over 40C
[09:55:46] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[10:17:43] <micges_work1> micges_work1 is now known as micges
[10:57:12] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFDCjcp_FzM
[11:36:33] <jthornton> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRrZkYil16g
[14:25:10] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[14:34:18] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXxNvmuiEjQ&feature=player_embedded
[15:03:58] <Jymmm> I should smack you for that one alex_joni
[16:11:51] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[16:12:34] <frallzor> heyhey
[16:32:42] <Jymmm> yo
[16:46:57] <frallzor> whaddayalldoing
[16:47:55] <Jymmm> lookin at a radio
[16:48:23] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfUMZcwtIyw
[16:48:45] <frallzor> just watching the picture radio euu
[16:48:47] <frallzor> eyy
[17:04:23] <ries> Does EMC2 also have read-ahead travel optimization with G41/42 tool compensation enabled? It does have read-ahead travel optimization as far as I know... right? (need to advocate EMC in the MM forum :) )
[17:07:15] <SWPadnos> it only looks ahead a couple of moves by default, I believe
[17:07:17] <cradek> that's a complicated question and if someone is asking yes/no questions so they can make check marks in a table to compare different softwares, just answer yes
[17:07:55] <SWPadnos> there was a branch of development that would look ahead for more or less the entire program, but I don't think it was perfected
[17:07:56] <bill2or3> is there a column for "as far as you're concerned, yes." :)
[17:08:04] <SWPadnos> "yes enough"
[17:08:10] <SWPadnos> or "yes enough for you"
[17:08:34] <ries> So... yes :)
[17:08:40] <cradek> sure whatever
[17:08:56] <cradek> you know the old saying about arguing on the internet, right? :-)
[17:09:10] <ries> ok.. thanks... the question came because Mach3 cannot do read ahead with G41/42 on... apparently
[17:09:16] <cradek> sorry, I'm being a dick
[17:11:18] <frallzor> lo ries
[17:11:19] <cradek> if you want a real answer, we have many very difficult cutter comp tests in our test suite that show how good our algorithm is. if someone wants real data, they could take that gcode and run it on other systems.
[17:11:21] <cradek> but if they just want to argue about which program is better without doing any real tests or analysis, then by all means say emc is, because it sure might be :-)
[17:11:29] <ries> hey frallzor ,,,
[17:12:09] <ries> cradek: this guy seems to have some experience with it already on various systems and beable to possibly identofy the problems. I am going to advice him to give EMC2 a try and report back...
[17:12:38] <frallzor> about to pay for racks and pinions =)
[17:14:17] <ries> frallzor: good... Japan?
[17:14:47] <cradek> it sounds like you're talking about mach having different motion blending capabilities based on whether ccomp is on. if that's specifically what you're asking about, no we don't have that issue.
[17:15:12] <cradek> the motion planning part doesn't care (or know) whether cutter comp is on.
[17:15:49] <ries> cradek: That's what I would expected... it just knows about direction and inside/outside of a cut... and can still optimize the path
[17:16:17] <frallzor> ries deitech =)
[17:16:20] <frallzor> they rocked
[17:16:21] <cradek> motion doesn't know anything except the arcs and lines that make up the tool path
[17:16:31] <SWPadnos> the path changes based on cutter comp. the motion controller does motion planning based on the path it gets
[17:16:35] <cradek> the various offsets and compensation were done "long ago"
[17:17:13] <ries> ok... I think I was trying to say the same... basically they are two separated system that will operate with each other...
[17:18:13] <frallzor> bob, drivers, steppers and racks & pinions ordered! =)
[17:49:49] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, we're four days away from the ircd migration -- if you are a tor-gpg user, a organisation with a current iline or a project which utilises dircbot we would as you to have a glance over at http://bit.ly/9yTy70 Thank you for reading and for using freenode.
[17:54:02] <tom3p> i was cleaning up some old papers. one is about cnc control with 2 cpus, 1 running rt(posn control), the other non-rt (user).
[17:54:15] <tom3p> ´╗┐interesting, DMAC research was done at a few uni's http://alt.goed.utah.gov/COE/clusters/competitive_accelerators/documents/DirectMachiningandControl04-05.pdf
[17:54:15] <tom3p> ´╗┐can a duo-core cpu run different os's ?
[17:54:37] <SWPadnos> yes, if you reboot or use vmware or something
[17:54:48] <SWPadnos> remember that the rest of the computer isn't dual
[17:55:08] <SWPadnos> (memory, disk, graphics, keyboard, other I/O), so there has to be some knowledge of how to share those resources
[17:55:39] <tom3p> i was thinking that sort of hdwr would be for the user, and soem dualport mem for the calculator rt side
[17:56:09] <tom3p> there is cross over in iocontrol
[17:56:40] <tom3p> hehe recentlu i discovered user cant use serial ports in some windows os's
[18:00:02] <SWPadnos> that DMAC thing is more or less what you get with the SMP RT kernel and isolcpus
[18:00:29] <SWPadnos> but that's radically different from running two OSes on the same chip at the same time (without them or some supervisor knowing about it)
[18:00:36] <SWPadnos> or even with them knowing about it
[18:02:41] <tom3p> yes, the idea/question was about running say stock ubuntu and qnx, each one having its separate core cpu, but allocating/hiding/carefullysharing resources
[18:03:10] <tom3p> or ubu & some rtai-ubuntu
[18:05:24] <pcw_home_> Ive been thinking that the isolcpus thing may work better on newer machines with PCIE
[18:05:25] <pcw_home_> since any hardware I/O blocking is done a a very high bandwidth point, and lower down the chain
[18:05:27] <pcw_home_> is all basically switched instead of a shared bus
[18:13:21] <geo01005> I know Ed Red, who is in charge of the DMAC stuff here at BYU.
[18:13:44] <geo01005> I believe they spun of a company from that research.
[18:15:28] <bill2or3> heya geo01005, have you checked out that new hackerspace down there?
[18:15:53] <geo01005> no, I'm unaware of it? At BYU?
[18:16:11] <bill2or3> no, separate. it was 'hackslc', but they moved.
[18:16:14] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 finds a link.
[18:16:34] <bill2or3> thetransistor.com
[18:17:14] <geo01005> I see, I'll have to check it out.
[18:17:24] <geo01005> But I'm only in Provo for another month.
[18:17:36] <bill2or3> lucky you. where to then?
[18:18:20] <geo01005> Up to ogden
[18:24:20] <tarzan> qnx an virtual engine?
[18:24:55] <jackc> a RTOS
[18:24:57] <jackc> its very nice
[18:44:41] <isssy> hi all
[18:51:26] <frallzor> SWPadnos all done now! =P
[19:04:14] <renz0r> renz0r is now known as renesis
[19:13:59] <ds3> arrrggg... the most irritating when dealing with an import machine has got to the be power connectors @$#!@#@#
[19:18:25] <frallzor> grrraor
[19:18:58] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[19:22:23] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[19:23:02] <andypugh> Are they irritatingly superior to your domestic ones?
[19:24:33] <micges> I've copied irc history from pidgin stupid program ;)
[19:41:34] <mozmck> micges: do you like empathy better?
[19:42:31] <micges> I don't understand
[19:43:08] <mozmck> empathy is the new IM program in gnome for karmic and later.
[19:43:51] <mozmck> I still like pidgin better. seems much more configurable to me: maybe that's why gnome dropped it :)
[19:44:09] <micges> I like xchat
[19:44:22] <micges> less options but less load on systen\
[19:44:42] <micges> pidgin ofet had 10% of system resources :/
[19:44:49] <micges> often
[19:45:07] <mozmck> hmm, I used to use it but found pidgin easier. didn't notice it used more resources though. ( I have plenty on this machine )
[19:45:46] <micges> at home I have old slow celeron :P
[19:46:20] <micges> at work I have pidgin
[19:48:20] <tarzan> win?
[19:49:12] <micges> ubu everywhere
[19:51:53] <ries> does G-code support nurb curves, or must that be converted to lines/circles (whatever is possible)?
[19:52:13] <frallzor> as in 3D?
[19:53:13] <ries> as in 2D and 3D I think.... I am just wondering how you would create a nurbe curve in g-code
[19:53:28] <ries> as a nurb, or converted into circles and lines...
[19:53:52] <micges> emc support nurbs but it's experimental code
[19:54:32] <frallzor> getting my rails machines so its one less concern btw :P
[19:54:35] <frallzor> *machined
[19:54:53] <micges> ries: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//gcode_main.html#sec:G5.2-G5.3-NURBs
[19:55:10] <ries> frallzor: good :)
[19:55:35] <frallzor> one more cost, one less grudge if not happy with it
[19:58:09] <danimal_garage> always nice to do it right the first time
[19:59:04] <danimal_garage> just rebuilt my toolchanger's claw. cleaned it out real good and replaced the aluminum piston shaft that was all scored with a titanium one
[19:59:16] <frallzor> =)
[19:59:17] <danimal_garage> and changed the seals
[19:59:40] <frallzor> want a joke about the animal seal? :P
[19:59:49] <danimal_garage> was gunna used stainless, but couldnt find the piece i was looking for, so i just used a piece of ti i had kicking around
[20:00:01] <danimal_garage> sure :)
[20:00:22] <frallzor> its no fun now, I was going to make fun of the seals =P
[20:00:33] <danimal_garage> ha
[20:36:32] <alidigitalis> I've got a 24 Volt 1 amp dc converter -- my controller card has settings that should make this voltage amperage combination ok - although it is a bit lower than perhaps the motors might handle (they're rated for up to 60 volts and 1.4-2Amps) - what's the worst thing that can happen with too little power
[20:36:53] <alidigitalis> or should i go get a different power supply...
[20:40:20] <SWPadnos> you won't get the full rated torque with lowered current
[20:40:52] <SWPadnos> you won't get full speed with reduced voltage
[20:43:55] <alex_joni> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=57+13'33.82N+4+34'19.81W&sll=57.47745,-4.201562&sspn=0.008433,0.021479&ie=UTF8&t=h&layer=c&cbll=57.226109,-4.572287&panoid=ApPA1rwguy7D-Kl8q6i0bw&cbp=12,127.23,,2,11.82&ll=57.226253,-4.572029&spn=0.013149,0.02944&z=15
[20:44:01] <alidigitalis> but otherwise i won't hurt anything?
[20:44:26] <alidigitalis> i just want to wire this thing up - i'm intending to carve some styrofoam
[20:44:51] <alex_joni> alidigitalis: should be fine, a bit slower (30%?) than it could otherwise
[20:45:09] <alex_joni> just make sure you won't try to get 2A from the PSU
[20:45:10] <alidigitalis> excellent!
[20:45:27] <alidigitalis> alex_joni: how would that happen?
[20:45:33] <alex_joni> also remember that you have more than one motor
[20:45:45] <alex_joni> if your motor driver doesn't have current limiting
[20:45:52] <alex_joni> and it's not set to 1A
[20:46:03] <SWPadnos> um, are these steppers or servos?
[20:46:04] <frallzor> SWPadnos mr PMDX got in touch :)
[20:46:08] <SWPadnos> cool
[20:46:23] <frallzor> all done now! woha
[20:46:27] <SWPadnos> a 60V 1.4A stepper would be a slow beast
[20:46:38] <andypugh> alex_joni: But is it the real Stig, or an imposter?
[20:48:15] <frallzor> who is the real stig, anyone can be
[20:49:42] <andypugh> Well, it's not me, I can assure you of that.
[20:50:04] <alex_joni> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?cbp=12,146.01,,3,-12.08&cbll=51.514925,-0.228768&layer=c&ie=UTF8&ll=51.514926,-0.228765&spn=0,359.99264&t=h&z=17&panoid=cRXQyRB9ywmaZVKuBSddWw
[20:50:26] <alex_joni> that one should be real
[20:50:39] <alex_joni> it's the bbc hq
[20:51:46] <andypugh> Indeed, I am sure I have seen him in that corner, by the photocopier, on the office shots.
[20:54:35] <andypugh> I would guess that folk in the US have no idea at all what we are on about?
[20:55:40] <alex_joni> dunno.. maybe they've seen it
[20:56:22] <alidigitalis> ok...back again - SWPadnos - servo i believe.... they've got six wires coming from them,
[20:56:53] <SWPadnos> that would be steppers
[20:56:58] <alidigitalis> ok
[20:57:05] <SWPadnos> or AC servos or something
[20:57:21] <alidigitalis> well the xy motors are a bit smaler than the z motor
[20:57:32] <frallzor> its something that needs wires at least
[20:57:39] <SWPadnos> that's interesting, but not useful for this discussion :)
[20:57:46] <andypugh> Is this for that eBay controller?
[20:57:49] <alidigitalis> the ratings are 3.0Volts / 2 amps for the smaller guys
[20:57:58] <SWPadnos> ok, was the 60V rating a typo?
[20:57:59] <alidigitalis> the z motor is 4.5v
[20:58:03] <alidigitalis> andypugh: yes
[20:58:10] <alidigitalis> :) it arrived saturday
[20:58:16] <frallzor> show!
[20:58:18] <andypugh> 3V motor, 60V controller, sounds about right for steppers
[20:58:41] <andypugh> Do you have a multimeter?
[20:58:42] <alidigitalis> the z motor is 4.5v 1.4A 2.0 deg/phase
[20:58:57] <alidigitalis> andypugh: not handily... might be able to borrow one from a neighbor
[20:59:09] <alidigitalis> i probably should have one anyhow...
[20:59:53] <alidigitalis> i've put the documentation such as it is here http://greenstonepatent.com/4Aixs.pdf
[20:59:59] <andypugh> OK, this will also work: touch motor wires together in pairs and find which pairs make the motor harder to turn.
[21:00:17] <alidigitalis> that makes sense
[21:00:19] <alidigitalis> brb
[21:00:20] <andypugh> You should end up with two sets of three wires
[21:04:47] <alidigitalis> oh andy.... how totally correct you are... this is fun
[21:05:11] <alidigitalis> and now we have a red, yellow, and black wire group, and a blue, green, and white group
[21:06:08] <alidigitalis> oh whoops, and in case anyone ever wants it i mistyped the link above
[21:06:28] <alidigitalis> it should read http://greenstonepatent.com/4Axis.pdf
[21:06:43] <andypugh> Hmm, I am not sure how to tell which is the centre tap. But I would hazard a guess that the white and black wires are the ones.
[21:07:17] <alidigitalis> are those the ones that need to go to the power and ground?
[21:07:18] <andypugh> I think you need a multimeter to tell.
[21:07:29] <andypugh> No, ignore the black and white wires.
[21:07:47] <alidigitalis> ok - I am glad to go get a multimeter... it's a tool I should have by now....
[21:08:12] <alidigitalis> thanks for getting me a bit closer... what does center tap mean?
[21:08:17] <andypugh> Connect red to A+, Yellow to A-, Blue to B+ and Green to B-
[21:08:30] <alidigitalis> ok
[21:08:37] <andypugh> If you look at the diagram on that link (I guessed the correct spelling)
[21:09:05] <andypugh> It shows that you can use all or half of the coils, by connecting to each end, or to one end and the middle.
[21:09:49] <andypugh> There is another sort of stepper driver where you connect the centre of each coil to earth/ground and then apply the power to one end or the other.
[21:10:03] <andypugh> That is called "Unipolar"
[21:10:24] <andypugh> But you have a bipolar driver, which effectively swaps power and earth as required.
[21:11:39] <andypugh> It doesn't really matter which end of which phase (A or B) you connect to the driver, as long as you make totally sure that you don't connect one phase to another. (I did that, blew my driver).
[21:11:42] <yoyoek1> hi
[21:12:27] <andypugh> ie, make sure that of the two wire families you have seperated, that one set goes to the "A" terminals, and one to "B"
[21:13:15] <andypugh> It is probably worth taking the time to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_motor
[21:13:59] <andypugh> That "B)" was not meant to turn into sunglasses smiley, if it has on your screen)
[21:17:07] <andypugh> yoyoek1 seems to be having a spot of bother.
[21:19:23] <SWPadnos> I'd rather have a spot of tea
[21:20:47] <skunkworks> mmmm tea
[21:21:02] <skunkworks> * skunkworks goes off and boils some water.
[21:23:26] <skunkworks> after getting the slack out of the z axis drive train - the axis would stop within a few 10ths using a wrench on the shaft with a stop.
[21:23:47] <skunkworks> that machine is unreal
[21:24:02] <alex_joni> wait for it to come alive
[21:24:13] <alex_joni> then it'll be unreal and undead
[21:24:17] <skunkworks> can't wait.
[21:25:08] <alex_joni> likewise
[21:26:14] <skunkworks> dad has been working on the plate.. we need to machine some shaft extenders and then figure out how to couple the servos in.
[21:26:39] <alidigitalis> gotta go for a bit - going to track down a multimeter - back in a few - thank ya'll - i'm saving the conversation for a complete documentation of the project
[21:27:19] <archivist_emc> alidigitalis, its also logged and available on the web
[21:27:30] <archivist_emc> logger_emc: bookmark
[21:27:30] <archivist_emc> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-01-26.txt
[21:43:57] <danimal_garage> ha, skunkworks needs a shaft extention
[21:49:10] <skunkworks> ;)
[21:55:35] <alex_joni> gooood niiiight ring ding ding ding..
[22:00:25] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP0sqRMzkwo
[22:02:56] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[22:44:30] <andypugh> That's disappointing, the USBHID interface chip I got dosn't show up in Ubuntu. (MacOS sees it OK)
[22:44:56] <bill2or3> what chip is it?
[22:45:22] <andypugh> Delcom / Cypress
[22:46:10] <andypugh> http://www.delcomproducts.com/productdetails.asp?productnum=902770
[22:48:12] <bill2or3> 'lsusb' find it?
[22:48:40] <andypugh> I didn't know about that 'till I got back in and started googling.
[22:49:00] <andypugh> No sign of it in /proc/bus/input though
[22:49:01] <bill2or3> it may be that you need to update the 'usb.ids' file. (I *think* that's what it's called)
[22:49:19] <bill2or3> but hrm, I guess if it's an HID device it shouldn't need any drivers or anything.
[22:49:46] <andypugh> That was my hope.
[22:50:41] <bill2or3> http://www.delcomproducts.com/ThirdParty.asp has some pointers to linux docs
[22:50:49] <andypugh> I was hoping, in fact, that it would show up in HAL as easily as my gamepad did.
[22:52:05] <andypugh> Ah, OK, so there is a driver. I will try that tomorrow.
[22:52:13] <tom3p> for the main controller ( not devices) try lshw
[22:52:32] <tom3p> sudo lshw (it'll bitch if you dont sudo )
[22:52:53] <tom3p> su su sdio
[22:52:57] <andypugh> OK, but I am done for tonight. :-)
[22:53:04] <tom3p> gnite
[22:53:43] <andypugh> Done as far as standing in a garage below freezing using a metal keyboard, I mean. :-)
[22:54:04] <andypugh> http://xkcd.com/149/
[22:54:32] <tom3p> hahaha love it
[22:55:29] <archivist_emc> loads of info from lshw
[22:55:52] <andypugh> All on one line on top of itself here, though
[22:56:30] <archivist_emc> sudo give me the command to identify the touch screen
[22:57:01] <tom3p> hmm need those lf's the last one might be the goodie tho 'configuration: driver=uhci_hcd latency=32 module=uhci_hcd' fer xmpl
[22:58:36] <tom3p> urg thats the last line in the USB controller stanze, you got that overwritten by even more stuff
[22:59:56] <andypugh> This Ubuntu I am messing with is a virtual machine on my Mac, it can't really be expected to work (and it gets record-breaking latency numbers in RT, like 1.5 _seconds_)
[23:00:28] <tom3p> alias sudo ='pretty_please' ;)
[23:01:14] <tom3p> andy is that where the EOL's get changed (linus vs mac) ?
[23:02:05] <tom3p> old comm programs had EOL char translation as a basic tool (unix/mac/ibm)
[23:02:17] <tom3p> bbl
[23:02:44] <jackc> 0x10 0x13 instead of just 13
[23:03:01] <bill2or3> SET MODE ASCII
[23:03:20] <andypugh> No, it is completely normal Ubuntu internally, and besides MacOS is BSD anyway
[23:04:35] <andypugh> It's only WIndows that has that stupid CR-LF thing
[23:04:47] <SWPadnos> mac does too actually
[23:04:55] <SWPadnos> they use LF only, instead of CR only
[23:05:04] <SWPadnos> Windows/DOS uses both
[23:05:04] <archivist_emc> cr lf predates unix :)
[23:05:17] <SWPadnos> did CP/M use that?
[23:06:00] <WalterN> yay for my new files coming in tomorrow
[23:06:05] <andypugh> But anyway, the Ubuntu running in the VM doesn't even suspect that it isn't on standard hardware.
[23:06:21] <SWPadnos> except that USB often doesn't work well in virtual environments
[23:06:23] <WalterN> I really hate working with garbage files
[23:06:41] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[23:07:24] <SWPadnos> oh right, they started using UNIX line endings in OSX
[23:07:34] <SWPadnos> being BSD-based as you said
[23:07:47] <andypugh> Sorry, I might have been unclear, I have not even tried the USB chip with the Virtual Machine, that is in the back pack of my bike to be taken to work to play with a VB interface for it tomorrow. I was just messing about with lsusb and lshw here in the warm.
[23:09:51] <andypugh> (I wish I could get WoL and software powerdown to work on the EMC2 box, it would make trying out simple things a lot less faff)
[23:10:29] <SWPadnos> you still need to physically plug in the USB device, in this instance
[23:10:38] <SWPadnos> and unplug/replug during testing, most likely
[23:11:07] <bill2or3> after plugging it in, to see what the kernel found you can use: demsg | tail
[23:11:38] <andypugh> dmesg?
[23:11:47] <SWPadnos> you still need to plug/unplug during testing (most of the time), since there's usually some changing of udev rules and such
[23:11:48] <ds3> prehaps a 3PST relay would solve that?
[23:12:16] <archivist_emc> SWPadnos, looks like CPM used CR for line ends circa 1973
[23:12:20] <jackc> remember power pins go in before data pins
[23:12:44] <ds3> actually, switching just Vbus might be sufficient
[23:13:00] <ds3> since the pull ups are usually to Vbus
[23:13:00] <andypugh> Though talking of udev, I do remember editing a rules file for the USB Joypad, perhaps.
[23:13:02] <jackc> its possible
[23:16:03] <SWPadnos> ds3, I saw a technique for disconnecting a USB device which was more or less just pulling the D- line low (could have been D+) via a 3.3k resistor. Do you know offhand if that works?
[23:16:57] <ds3> I'd think you got to do both D- and D+
[23:17:01] <SWPadnos> hmm
[23:17:31] <ds3> since that's the value of the lines with things disconnected (there is an integral pull down at the host side); device is suppose to pull them up to indicate what speed they are
[23:17:54] <SWPadnos> I wonder if the endpoint can use that as a way of doing a "break" (more or less), but a "third-party" device can't fool a host/device pair into disconnecting that way
[23:18:05] <SWPadnos> ok, maybe it was D+
[23:18:42] <ds3> if you only do one line, it'll only work with certain speed devices
[23:19:00] <andypugh> I wonder if I need to add a udev rule for the chip?
[23:19:02] <ds3> you got 00 - no dev, HS, LS, and Invalid
[23:20:17] <SWPadnos> hmmm. Well, I'm glad I didn't have that resistor populated on my boards :)
[23:21:19] <ds3> hahaaha
[23:21:25] <ds3> it is ONLY a resistor
[23:21:35] <ds3> puny 2 terminal devices that are trivial t remove and insert ;)
[23:22:05] <SWPadnos> yeah, but it makes me have to deal with the software (setting the pin as input/no pullup is hard you know!)
[23:22:16] <SWPadnos> 0603 are a little harder to remove/insert
[23:22:30] <SWPadnos> but very inexpensive in quantity
[23:22:45] <ds3> the 0402's are annoying...0603's aren't too bad (just don't reuse them
[23:23:21] <ds3> I think the local store has partial reels for $5 or you can spend about $5 on 50 peices themselves ;)
[23:23:26] <SWPadnos> 0402 are OK for me (or they were 10 years ago - not so sure now), unless they're in an 8-element package with 040 pitch
[23:23:39] <SWPadnos> or you can spend $7 on a full reel from DigiKey
[23:23:48] <SWPadnos> they're $0.0012 or so each
[23:24:10] <SWPadnos> or $0.00152 or something
[23:24:10] <andypugh> I bought 50 of something like 50 values of resistors and caps in a bag from eBay.
[23:24:20] <ds3> it is the shipping that is the killer at Digikey
[23:24:36] <SWPadnos> nah. ground on a bunch of reels (like 10-20 of them) is like $10 or less
[23:24:46] <SWPadnos> it's when you need them tomorrow that you're totally screwed
[23:25:08] <andypugh> I have an RS account, free shipping and next day delivery :-)
[23:25:17] <ds3> yes but that's $5 extra for 2 reels or $10 extra for 1 reel
[23:25:22] <ds3> almost double the price
[23:25:28] <SWPadnos> sure
[23:25:41] <SWPadnos> but then there's gas to get to the store and see if they have what you need ...
[23:25:46] <SWPadnos> (not to mention time0
[23:25:47] <SWPadnos> )
[23:26:25] <ds3> being in the silly valley, the proto stores are a bit better stocked
[23:27:15] <ds3> just wished they had the international 220V plugs in stock
[23:27:17] <SWPadnos> yeah, that's true
[23:27:17] <andypugh> I just bought a kit like this:
[23:27:18] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.com/50-value-0603-SMD-assorted-Resistor-Kit-in-Box-5000-5_W0QQitemZ370275364821
[23:27:58] <andypugh> And I still don't see how they get a 1.0uF cap in an 0603 package...
[23:28:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:28:10] <SWPadnos> low voltage :)
[23:28:13] <SWPadnos> and high ES
[23:28:15] <SWPadnos> R
[23:28:42] <ds3> high permitivity
[23:28:55] <ds3> or is it permebility?
[23:29:05] <ds3> one of them is for L, the other is for C's
[23:29:34] <SWPadnos> E, permittivity is for caps
[23:32:05] <skunkworks> does that kit have 0 ohm resistors in it?
[23:32:18] <SWPadnos> looks it
[23:32:29] <SWPadnos> and 1, in case you're dividing ;)
[23:32:47] <ds3> * ds3 *heart* 0 ohm resistors
[23:33:32] <skunkworks> oh - look - a chart..
[23:33:41] <skunkworks> * skunkworks needs a bigger screen on his laptop
[23:33:44] <danimal_garage> dammit my air selanoid is sticking
[23:33:51] <skunkworks> Danimal-office
[23:34:15] <andypugh> 0 ohm proper resistors are good for hopping over tracks, I am not at all sure what use 0603 ones are :-) build-time configuration jumpers?
[23:34:21] <danimal_garage> yes?
[23:35:06] <ds3> hmmm these import 220:110 transformers are somewhat worrysome
[23:35:25] <ds3> andypugh: yep, that's what I design them in for
[23:35:27] <skunkworks> danimal_garage: on the video you posted - souldn't the arm been up when the tool carousel is spinning?
[23:36:46] <danimal_garage> no
[23:36:57] <danimal_garage> the claw opens and clears the tool
[23:37:15] <skunkworks> ah - cool
[23:37:35] <danimal_garage> i had the lines disconnected for the claw for the vid. it leaked, but it's all rebuilt and working now
[23:38:07] <danimal_garage> i have a selanoid that's sticking for the arm's movement, so i gotta fix that now
[23:38:38] <danimal_garage> ands then i'm done (hopefully)
[23:38:54] <skunkworks> neat!
[23:39:00] <danimal_garage> i got it all cleaned out and put the chain back on the door so it opens and closes now
[23:39:18] <skunkworks> we are going to need another video....
[23:39:30] <danimal_garage> everything works great, except that selanoid valve that takes forever to move
[23:39:40] <danimal_garage> yea, as soon as i finish this :)
[23:40:43] <SWPadnos> ds3, I think this is where I got the idea: http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/an/10109.pdf
[23:41:05] <Jymmm> Found a serial card for my netbook http://www.microbarn.com/details.aspx?rid=102431&source=froogle
[23:41:10] <SWPadnos> but I was in a bit of a hurry, and I didn't check to be sure it's good for HS devices as well
[23:42:00] <flexxxv> anyone here who has finished pcb design for a parallell breakout board with LEDs for each pin?
[23:42:43] <Jymmm> LED's do not make a BOB
[23:43:46] <andypugh> Are you just wanting to see the pins change state, or to attach stuff too?
[23:44:28] <flexxxv> I only want to have the LEDs for debugging :D
[23:45:00] <flexxxv> I just want an easy solution to connnect anything with the parallel port
[23:45:11] <ds3> SWPadnos: note that the devices they talk about are LS only
[23:45:17] <ds3> so they can cheat
[23:45:32] <SWPadnos> darned cheaters
[23:45:47] <Jymmm> flexxxv: Honestly, the LED's add a "cool factor" but there are SO many other things to consider in a BOB.
[23:45:48] <SWPadnos> bbl
[23:46:35] <Jymmm> opto isolation, buffering, rely drivers, heartbeat, speed control, etc
[23:47:50] <andypugh> I didn't bother with a PCB.
[23:48:17] <andypugh> I just wired to terminal strips and then had a 10-bar LED matrix for telltales.
[23:48:37] <andypugh> And moved the LED wires around to suit.
[23:48:54] <flexxxv> think that I dont want a a breakout board :P I only want a board with parallelport and LEDs to connect my step motor driver boards :D
[23:49:14] <flexxxv> (I dont speak english nativly)
[23:49:18] <andypugh> Now I have more than 15 pins (Mesa card) I am using padboard and point-to-point wiring with a Verowire pen.
[23:50:07] <andypugh> The driver boards are probably opto-isolated.
[23:51:22] <andypugh> So wiring direct (or near-direct) is probably OK. If in doubt, use a $20 PCI parallel port card, and treat it as potentially disposable :-)
[23:52:40] <flexxxv> I think i'll get a cheap pci card and than I dont have to opto isolate :P
[23:52:48] <flexxxv> (more cheap)
[23:53:26] <flexxxv> how dangerous for the pc is it if I wire directly?
[23:54:54] <flexxxv> I could destroy the mother board right?
[23:55:34] <andypugh> In theory. In practice you would probably only blow the parallel port.
[23:56:59] <flexxxv> ok, so better get a pci card :D
[23:58:05] <andypugh> There are commerically made breakout boards with all the bells and whistles. Do you have a budget?
[23:59:11] <flexxxv> I just build it at home and I'm a student so I think pci parallel is the best option :D
[23:59:44] <andypugh> Well, if you are careful the risk of blowing anything up is fairly small.