dont you love that?
that usually happens to me, although it happens for days instead of hours
wich my 5 axis was as good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I3diD1lpho
freeze frame http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/platemill.JPG
lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
the joys of machining iron
will darken the complexion of the whitest irishman
iron is shiny :)
woot got a light on my manual mill finally
the shop is shaping up
yeah well, hours days, same thing if multiplied/divided by 24
simple solutions rock
i still can't believe the solution is really that simple
i almost rather a complex solution, so i dont feel so dumb sometimes lol
"did you turn the machine on?" "Doh!"
i just spend so much time trying to figure out the complex stuff that i often overlook the simple stuff
KISS == Keep it simple stupid
like my spinde motor being wired for 408v instead of 203v
did you drill your holes yet Jymmm?
haven't even tried yet
what's your machine look like?
is it a retrofit, or a custom build?
cool, got pics?
[00:48:50] <Jymmm> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/424362252_1bd7946026.jpg
nice mess containment
It jsut bolts together, then to the gorilla rack
in case of EQ
ball screws or lead screws?
ball xy, acme z
z doesnt need to be all that close usually anyways
depends on the job usually
man i thought this vfd i put on the manual mill would suck for power tapping, but it does alright
kinda handy actually, i can feed in at a slow rpm, reverse, and crank it up and zip the tap out in a hurry
danimal you can probably get your motor rewound for the lower voltage if you wanted
also whats your opionions on grinding your own slides and ways
how would you grind a way without a way grinder
the short answer is "You can't"
Valen: on most 3 phase motors, it's just a matter of swapping a few connections
it's about a 5 minute job to change the voltages
i already did it
toastydeath: for a friend of mine who is a student, so time is valued at 0 ;->
Valen, it has nothing to do with time
it has to do with how ways are made
you can scrape ways by hand
but its an art
that would be your best bet, the scraping
thats what I was thinking
I was wondering what methods of making ways there are basically
without a bazillion dollars worth of equipment
you can make cast iron flat ways with a scraper, and reference surfaces
you will need a couple straightedges and a decently sized surface plate of good accuracy
you will need indicators and levels
hmm I'm wondering if you can apply some technoligy could be applied to improve things
generating a more accurate surface than you stared with is one of the most difficult scraping projects you can undertake.
it is far more difficult than scraping in most ways.
I'm thinking if you have a rough flat, an accurate linear scale, and a twin laser + ccd system
good luck with your future ride, spaceman
you send a carriage along the flat, with laser spots on the 2 CCD's measure the errors in "height" and rotation then come back and grind the high spots back
lather and repeat
it'll be even more accurate on the moon, with less gravity, all we need is to build a rocket to get it there
my degree is in space science
no problem, we've got time.
I have built a fiew
then we're 75% there!
I am curious as to why it won't work, it just seems odd that there have been no improvements in the field in the past 200 years or so
because the things we take for granted as being "accurate enough" don't work for shit when you're trying to make something as flat and as long as a way surface
manufacturers have spent a lot of money trying to make the best, and cheapest ways they can
it's not that nobody is working on the problem, it's that the problem is a lot, lot harder than the layperson thinks it is
so tell me, why wont it work?
they seem to use lasers to align and measure the errors in ways now
they use lasers to measure the long-grain errors
they use far, far more accurate equipment to measure the local error and height differences
planikators and reference straightedges
so a reference straightedge is straighter than a laser?
for the purposes of trying to figure out where to grind down, absolutely
i mean outside the vecinity of a black hole, light travels in pretty straight lines
well if its pointless then theres not much point
and get back to me, nothing's in he way to stop you.
lasers are excellent for measuring tilt and roll in the ways
and that's what they're used for
the problem is how do you find the 10 or so tiny spots that are .000025" above the rest of the raised spots
on a scraped way
in a 4' section of way?
a good straightedge can do that
lasers don't do a good job of that
interfrometric inspection of the surface would reveal that
then do it, i'm sure you've got zygo beat.
they can't do it.
the bottom line, to the industry, is that one dude with a couple grand in equipment can make a very, very accurate grinding machine
which is then a xerox machine for ways.
perhaps you've got an idea nobody's tried, and if you really want to, give it a shot
I will if its going to actually work
I don't assume I know more than everybody, I do however have different requirements for this application
nobody's going to be able to tell you your idea can't work, because nobody has ever managed to beat the current method out.
and if you don't really care much about the accuracy requirement of the ways, I'm positive there's a ton of things you could do to get close enough.
I'm coming from a perspective of optics, (telescopes) where they make things to ~1/10th a wavelength of light
and that is made by guys in a shed using bitumin, steel washers and emery powder
optics are balls easy compared to machine ways
and lapping runs into a very similar set of problems with ways, if you choose that route
1/10th of a wavlength over 600mm is a pretty decent accuracy isnt it?
2.51968504 × 10-6 inches
would you stop saying that
i can't tell you it won't work, so if you think it will, try it
optics are shenanigans easy compared to machine ways, there are many, many more ways a way can be out of alignment than an optical surface
and the measurement of those errors is more difficult than the process to get them out
I would have thought that an optical flat and a way would have pretty simmilar requirements?
an optical flat can be made with the same process a person uses to autogenerate primary surfaces
i.e. grinding a set of 3 surface plates from no known reference
ways, due to their shape and relation to other way surfaces, have to be copied from a reference
I am saying that from that optical flat you should be able to maintain and generate further flats
same as with surface plates etc
but using light and a computer rather than ink and a scraper
i do not think, even though your description is simple and seems straightforward, that it takes into account all the problems and errors that develop in trying to measure and correct a set of surfaces to match another reference.
that is what I am trying to find out through discussion
if you want to really try it for some reason, there's three basic books you should read
Precision Machine Design, by alex sloccum
Machine Tool Reconditioning, by someone whose name I forget
and the book by Moore tool, whose title I forget but I believe it's by Robert Moore and it's on their webpage
reading those three books will be more informative than trying to drag information out of me
they go over all the problems of measurement, and how lapping of optics differs
and they're much better references if you want to try and design a new measurement machine, because it lists ALL the errors
and how they're currently corrected
spose you dont actually want a mirror finish on a slide way anyway
wont hold any oil
well, on higher end machines, it's acceptable
because of aerostatic bearings
or rolling elements
how do they keep an oil film?
they don't use plain ways in the most accurate machines
what do they use?
usually either custom lapped needle bearings or air bearings
air bearings are far more popular
and cheaper I would imagine
depends, they can get pretty pricey
even if they wind up being more expensive, the accuracy of the bearing is worth it
I spose for a measuring machine air would be ok
air bearings are very stiff, they work for machine tools in general too
but the accuracy would be lower on a cutting machine than a metal on metal
the gap is only .0002" or so, if that
and at 60 psi, the deflection in a metal bearing is usually higher
that's why air bearings are popular for high end grinding machines
they are stiff enough to be good grinding spindles
grinding is a low impact process as well which would suit them
unlinke milling I would assume
grinding has higher stiffness requirements than milling does in the spindle department
and it's worth pointing out that large machine tools virtually all use hydrostatic bearings with fairly large gaps
otherwise there wouldn't be much point in grinding it in the first place ;->
before i quit there was a cool project where they made a spindle for a paper mill roll
one of the big rolls
it was a hugeeee bearing
er, not paper, but film of some type
crushing it down or sizing it
sounds like fun
again though a nice static load ;->
I think I saw the video of that one
they do excellent in vibrational loads
we have companies that use some of our larger bearings for high speed machines that use linear motors
it works just fine.
I spose if the vibration is below the contact force it'd do fine
IE if you use it in spec you wont break it
yep, and all machine tool bearings are way, way oversized to handle crash forces
do they have skid pads or something to handle a crash or is it just graphite on steel?
graphite on steel in the case of porous
usually the bearing will recover
metal on metal is usually a dead bearing
or at least mucks with its accuracy
I wonder how glass would go as the slide for a measuring doovey
like, scooting the glass directly along the metal?
or in air
glass instead of a steel way for an air bearing
might work better for measuring, it'd have less thermal issues I'd imagine
one of the unfortunate things about measuring machines is they always have thermal issues no matter what they're made of
unless you base all your measurements off a 6dof laser source ;->
some machines do
see now thats cool ;->
one of the trendy things now is to have a metrology frame, which is inside the machine yet kinematically isolated
so the load is borne by one frame and all the measurements are taken with respect to this other frame
all your interferometry stuff and cap gages
although for machines like CMMs with no load at all
they just do a static error map in 3 axes
and rely on good thermal control in the room to keep it accurate
works pretty well, i think Zeiss and a few others have some ridiculously accurate cmms that rely on just those two
coordinate measuring machines
3 axis gantry sitting on top of a granite plate, it has a spherical probe
any displacement of the probe whatsoever triggers the machine
[02:05:03] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPPp1A1gj2M&feature=player_embedded
yeah those are scary
thats the problem with CnC, you have the same bugs as computers get, but they happen in the real world
glad my machine isnt that powerfull
normally in the real world you employ margin to stop bad things happening, and in computers there are no real concequences
its the worst of both worlds
also keep in mind re: that crash
all the axes' servos release
they should have a load sensor
so the machines tend to move a lot with even a tiny crash, esp. if it's linear ways and other low friction things
that's why that table went wonky
if there's that much of a load, the servos should disable
it tripped the load meter, the servo released, and the table went wonky
it's just that most integrated rotabs in modern machines are different than the table-mounted kind
there's no worm gear or other thing to stop it from moving
i wish i had a rotab
nice big stepper motor?
not that i need one for my parts, but it would be fun for hobby stuff
eh, i'd buy one, not make it
we are planning on making ours
they're cheap enough
we are making electric motors
problem is we need a rotary table to make the motors lol
maybe $1k for a used one
and it'll work right the first time (usually)
but we have picked up a servo drive with 2048 count encoder coupled to a 100:1 harmonic drive gearbox
for about $30
and $10 for the driver lol
I'm planning on running the driver as a stepper so its easy to interface to
motor part isnt too bad, but the mechanics of it are involved for one that's suitable for precision and heavy milling
yeah lots of phat bearings
i dont want any backlash
I am wanting to put in some kind of dampner
hmm, i just googled harmonic drive
harmonic drives have no backlash (in theory)
but we want no backlash either so I'm planning on using a ~million point encoder on the motor and have the motor and table integrated into one part
its going to be a ~200mm diamiter motor
I'm hoping to be able to run it as a normal servo off EMC but I have a feeling i'll need a drastically higher servo rate to keep it somewhere near straight
how often the servo thread runs
why would you have a problem?
by default it'll only change the output at 1khz
you think the encoder count is too high or something?
I was hoping to use the motor to counter mechanical vibrations
shouldn't you use a dedicated controller?
so it should probably run at ~3x the vibration frequency which is probably number of teeth * RPM / 60
it's quite an animal at a million lines
it won't be spinning very fast
you're going to discover at a point that you can climb on the gantry/portal
and then you won't really care about maximum speeds/max loads
I was thinking of putting a 2048 line encoder on it as well and being able to use it as a lathe ;->
danimal, hmm interesting I only get 320hz for the nyquist frequency of the vibration
my lathe's count is 204800 per inch
IE a tooth is only entering the material 106 times a second at 1600 RPM with a 4 tooth cutter at 1600 RPM
our mill is 1000 a mm
danimal 8000 per mm?
somewhere around there
oh thats microstepping and such
that's encoder counts
servos, not steppers
whats the setup?
8,180 per mm
ours is linear scales on the axies
i mean, servo count, gearing, turns per inch on the screw
5 turns per inch
gearing of ballscrew to resolver is 10:1
what you using for the reduction?
resolver feedback is 4,096 per rev, so 10x 4096 is 40960 per rev of the ball screw
the lathe has a little gearbox on it for the resolvers and tach
this is the stock setup for the lathe, i didnt change anything
so the resolvers are on their own box but the motors are direct drive?
motors are geared down a little, maybe 2:1
never bothered to figure out the servo gearing, wasnt important to me
I've never seen it done with the encoders on their own gearbox
well, they're actually resolvers
but same difference
cradek and SWPadnos have the same deal
we all have the same lathes
except SWPadnos hasnt converted his yet
we are going to do ours soon
generic chinese one
has .005mm linear scales on it at the moment
going to do the same thing we did on the mill
ballscrews and such like
i'd like to convert my manual mill to emc, but only for hole positions when i'm drilling
and maybe power feed
too much slop in the leadscrews for true cnc
you can make an anti-backlash for leadscrews
if you use linear scales it should take out the errors in the screws as well
my goal is to have every machine in the shop converted to emc before SWPadnos starts his lathe
including the shop-vac
I'll take that bet
err - on your side anyway
[02:36:54] <Valen> http://www.vacuumrobot.com.au/
it's a cool little lathe, you should do it
I have this seasonal problem
got a photo damimal?
when it's winter, it's way too cold to work in the garage
and too hot in summer?
and when it's summer, I seem to have other work to do
((or vacations to go on or something)
that's the north east for ya
Valen: pictures coming up
(and this winter, I have too much work to do anyway)
it's been that way since April or so
[02:39:36] <danimal_garage> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/hardinge/
still gotta take a video, just waiting on my coolant to show up
it's all up and running though
just got the toolchanger on the mill working (kinda)
the ladder seems right, but i got some air leaks to fix and whatnot
it changes tools though
need to get a tool changer happening on ours
but it needs spindles and such as well
yea spindles are important lol
still trying to find one that'll do 100RPM as well as 10,000
i hope my customer appreciates these parts, i've gone through alot of beer making them
valen: what kind of mill?
[02:45:28] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/IMAG0031.jpg
smallest of the not a toy ones ;->
the head is 100kg
all up is ~300-400
yea, cool, thats deff not a toy
good size for a home shop
not too small, but not too big
I want to make a replacement
granite epoxy base
gantry style I'm thinking atm
[02:49:34] <danimal_garage> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/shizuoka/?action=view¤t=DSCN0206.jpg
thats mine, before i converted it to emc
gotta get some new pics up
(the one in the middle)
yeah touch larger
whats the travels?
not sure on z
ours is 8 in y and 23 in x
i have an enclosure on the table, so it's a little more limited than that now
i'm running flood coolant, so i had to keep it contained
ours now has a shower curtain ;->
hmm i think i might put a 3 way toggle switch on my vfd for my manual mill with preset tapping speeds, so i dont have to turn the pot to slow it down.
ehh, could get confusing. i dont want to have to look at it.
i just figured i'd have a seperate toggle, up is reverse, down is forward, and i'd use resistors to set the speeds for both directions]
instead of a pot
and then i'd have my normal fwd/fed switch for drilling/milling with the speed controlled by the pot
that way it wont get confusing when i'm doing alot of parts
yay, finally finally: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/spindle-encoder.jpg
i've been thinking on how to do mine
all that to protect a little encoder wheel
looks like a boat prop on the top lol
there's a shroud, it blows down along those motor fins
cool, looks good
cradek: So, remove bolts and pulls towards you, right?
Jymmm: something like that!
unfortunately the wheel is the widest part in there
there's a little cover that comes off underneath my motor, i was thinking of putting it under there, coupled to the motor's shaft
is your spindle direct drive?
no unfortunately, there's a belt
there's no way to get the encoder on the spindle
yea same here
experiment shows this is good enough for tapping.
works ok like that for tapping?
thats all i need
there's no index either (no point, since the pulleys aren't 1:1) so I just hooked A to Z on the mesa
what kind of encoder?
a little module like US digital has
i was thinking that might be easiest
I swiped it off some old motor
cool, what's the counts per rev?
504 I think
btw, i got my mill toolchanger mostly working... just got some mechanical issues to straigthen out, like fixing the door, and replacing some air lines
ladder seems good though
it changes tools
i used the mathmod component
that SWPadnos told me about
figured i'd at least try it
that was a major project for me
went faster than the lathe though (since i had some experience with ladder now)
yeah you've been doing a lot of emc work...
yea, my head hurts
it's been sort of a crash course in EMC lately
do you have more pictures of your mill and lathe?
one of the whole mill somewhere - one sec
[03:59:33] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/jr.jpg
i thought you had a knee mill
thats really cool
I have one of those too, probably selling it though
whats the meter for?
I should put some labels on that panel - it's fine for me, but would suck for anyone else trying to use it!
yea, i mostly use the keyboard still lol
i have some buttons on the mill, but not all of them
no keyboard here!
is it touch screen?
yeah I wrote the touchy gui because of this machine
what you see there is all the controls
oh, i've heard people talking about it, but havent looked into it yet
i'd like to do that myself
how does the screen hold up to water solulable coolants?
it's glass so it doesn't care one bit
it's a good screen
it doesn't work with a wet finger though - the wet spot you leave behind makes it think you're still touching it
yea, i have the same issue with my touch pad
you sure don't want to depend on a touchscreen for anything important
haha like e stop?
or abort, or run, or jogging
i like a mpg for jogging
but it's good for stuff where you can stop and mess with it
i need to get one
yeah I can't imagine not having one
where's your shop?
it's ground level
used to be a garage, we built another one in front of it
yea, couldnt imagine getting that down some stairs
no, hard enough to get it here
yea, hard enough getting it in a garage too, i'd imagine
my shizuoka is too tall to fit under the door
same with the bridgeport
the mori does fit under a 7' door *barely*
only minor disassembly
bridgeport takes major disassembly
yea, i had to pull the whole upper part of the head off
motor, pulleys, casting, etc
now i gotta pull it all off again so i can measure for cogged pullies
i gotta get rid of that noisy vari speed head
i run 4k rpm's constantly, it gets annoying
every once in a while i might drop down to 2500 rpm's
yeah that's fast for varispeed
mine's happiest at 1500
perfect for .75 hss cutters
but if you do small stuff, way too slow
yea, biggest tool i use is .5, carbide
hm, you need a lot faster spindle then
can you just replace the bearings and motor?
i think so
I should get to bed early tonight - I didn't get to sleep in this weekend
cradek, will you deliver your bridgeport? we could also mail it peice by piece :}
krushia_ is now known as krushia
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[11:01:20] <anonimasu> http://www.io23.net/ul/files/IMG_2816.JPG
lo boys and girls
can anyone recommend a good BOB except pmdx?
they dont seem keen on giving me quotes for their stuff =)
they have prices on their website ...
but not for shipping
and you need to contact for international quotes
steves_logging, can you get this guy a quote already?
think this is my 2nd try :P
I think im being filtered :P
oh, well you have to stop including risque photos in your requests :)
ohh the owner hides in there too? :P
steves_logging is the owner
I see, thats nice =)
ill bug him when he's around
(Steve Stallings, when he's actually near the computer)
what time is it there btw?
I see, 14.40 here so :P
land of beavers, so to speak ;)
racks and pinions are crazy priced here
like 10m rack and 4 pinions, standard shit, $1500 =/
that seems wrong
10 meters is a lot of rack
well its in smaller pieces
but I see ppl getting it muuuuch cheaper
so Im shocked =P
heh, ordered some cheap ER25 collets from china
total cost was like $50
that's china for you
was shocked when I noticed the shipping included was DHL Express, cant see how that calculates with the cost =)
I've had good luck with some of the chinese stuff I've gotten
shippinh must be like free overe there or something =P
manufacturing is free, the shipping was $45
im trapped here now until they come =(
cradek_ is now known as cradek
but if its 9am there now its no surprise I got no answer today yet, pmdx-related that is
hopefully this mail is where it should be :P
kinda see the shavings flying here also. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/platebore.JPG
ouch, interrupted boring
it doesn't look as bad as I expect though...
what's the new hole for?
bearing - the shafts in this box are getting exteded out so we can attach timing belts/servos. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/stripped.JPG
it actaully cut pretty decsent.
plus - cast iron seems to cut pretty nice.
ah - I was wondering how you located the hole - there was one there already, but smaller
I'm kind of surprised you didn't plug the adjacent thing
but looks like it turned out great
did you get it the right size? :-)
well - it is about .001 under right now.. Had to leave at that point.
ran out of time.
that is what silicone if for.. ;)
hm, if you have any press fit, I bet it won't be centered anymore
so yeah, silicone! it's just for a belt to pull against?
everything is pre-loaded already - so all we have to worry about is how to get the power in.
wow, Y axis on stuart's G&L has 0.013 backlash
I remember X had a lot too (you could clearly see the screw jump across it when reversing) but the dual feedback with the scale hid it perfectly
guess his Y scale is still not working though.
was Y vertical on this machine?
skunkworks: what is each shaft for?
Danimal-office x,y and b
it's kind of baffling that those are all parallel
scary - isn't it. x is the end of the ball screw. z is a zero backlash drive train up to the spinning nut. b is not that acurite. (it only has to position to 5 degree increments.)
that is what we spent last weekend doing - getting the backlash out of the z axis gears. If that was possible - then we would just hook the servos down below.
one less thing to design.
cant wait to see it when it's done
sorry - it is actually x,z and b
well gotta go help out a customer, bbl
cnc_ is now known as archivist_pcb
why G01 with A may go through 0 for A20-A13 move?
I have a program with small increments/decrements in A, but AXIS sim shows full circle moves for each move. So each step goes through 0...
I'm in master branch if it matters
what does the actual motion do?
it should do about 5 degrees rotation
it instead does 355...
so the motion agrees with the preview but it isn't what you expect?
either way, pastebin your gcode
sounds like it's possibly a radian degree mismatch?
it could be a bug of some kind, still trying to collect data here
[16:58:44] <aystarik> http://pastebin.ca/1765326
G00 seems to be fine, but G01 is not expected ...
which line has the unexpected motion?
line 37, and every after
what config are you running?
it has [AXIS_3]WRAPPED_ROTARY=1
and it does not work?
it's not g0 vs g1 difference. In your g0 lines, A is increasing. In the g1 lines, A is decreasing but the sign is positive. with WRAPPED_ROTARY this means "go in the positive direction to get to the target"
yes, it does work
(hm, wonder if wrapped rotary is in the docs yet)
hm, strange definition...
maybe you don't want wrapped
yes, definetely, this is not what I want...
I was expecting wrapped to choose smaller move to get job done... 359->1 move goes through 0...?
nope, that is not the design
359 -> +1 goes in the positive direction to get to 1, 359 -> -1 goes in the negative direction to get to 1
What is the intended use of it?
where you always want to move one way, and not have the position wind up forever
(that's one useful situation at least)
it always shows 0-359.9999 on the readout
in your design, you don't explicitly know which way it will turn. in the existing design, you specify it.
(it's copied from how a certain fanuc machine works)
i would guess it should not be default in axis_9axis then...
hm, maybe not
[17:25:16] <cradek> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/16539/focus=16626
this is the middle of the argument about it on the users list
this post describes a way I see someone using WRAPPED_ROTARY
thanks for reminding me about it - it is not in the docs yet.
Hi - the x-y motors that are s 3v, 2.4A, & 1.8 steps phase and another larger motor that's 4.5V, 1.4A & 2 steps per phase - I'm trying to figure out what DC inverter I need - my controller card says it handles up to 36V and 3.5A.... but that sounds like overkill for my motors.. what's the math on this?
jeez - sorry for the gibberish at the start - anyhow, it's x&y motors that are one size and a larger z axis motor...
the controller card also says it can be toggled for 12 or 24 Volts... i've also heard that not providing enough power may damage the motors
i'll be in and about all day so anyone with insight please feel free to drop me a line
steppers are usually run at 20-25 times it's rated voltage
ok - so these steppers are probably handle some juice - as much as my controller card can deliver it might seem
are the drives choppers?
what are the drives?
i have no idea
then ignore Jymmm's advice until you find out
i'm a total novice here
ok, if you don't know what you have, we can't give you advice about it
i've had the mill with the motors attached in the corner of my living room for a year
i ordered the controller card and received it saturday
one sec i'll post the specs
[17:43:37] <alidigitalis> http://greenstonepatent.com/4Axis.pdf
there are settings for Nema motors of various calibers.... how would i determine what mine most closely approximates?
that is not very good documentation :-(
it says it's a constant current chopper, that's good
it says higher voltage will burn up the chips, that's not good, and either is a misunderstanding, or their design is defective
it's straight from hong kong
it says 100% 50% etc for current - this makes no sense because it should be amperage values
yeah, i'm definitely over my head here...
can you see the part number on one of the driver chips?
sure - one sec
good, and what are your motors rated?
the x&y axis are 3.0V 2.4A 1.8 Step per phase and the z axis .is 4.5V 1.4A and 2 Steps per phase - it's slightly larger than the xy's
hm, the % thing is right out of this data sheet, but I still don't understand it
looks like the current should be set by changing resistors
can you tell the value of your current sense resistors?
there are pins that can be switched abck and forth... let me check the settings
pins 2 and 6 are off, the rest are on - so that makes it current setting 75% decay mode setting fast, and microstep settings 1/2
cool man - enjoy - :)
and thank you very much for walking with me a ways....
but back to business, anyonw know good BOBs beside pdmx? =)
that might be even better in some way
now im locked and loaded and ready to shop!
for those concerned. mega-cool new feature in mGcodeGenerator:) work path order:)
hi micges :)
jak tam po swietach ?
yoyoek1: ? new in this ? http://d3p.pl/down/mGcodeGenerator.py_091110_2311_0.1.10.tar.gz
i keep watching your work, i have to do other things now, thx for the work :)
thx 2x :)
new feature is mega:) end in keeping the elements. script that finds itself at the end of the detail:) and it cut the last
end with holding elements. ok scripts automaticly finds outlines of the detail and cut it as last cut
more correct ?
trying to understand... in wire EDM , we leave a tiny bit of stock so the part doesnt fall off, then need to cut that last bit eventual to free the part. like that?
it don't leave a bit it cut now a out line of element on the end
my English is becoming worse condition
maybe...it clloses a shape to make a complete loop/path?
I think he means there is some bit that isnt milled until last
you can always talk in pictures :)
so it sits solid until most is done
frallzor, i agree, it prevents the part from dropping until the last bit is removed
yoyoek1: i saw the gear pictures, it seems you have tool comp working nice now http://yoyo.ghost.pl/fb/?&tag=mGcodeGenerator&id=1175&subPage=detale
anyone know a cheap supplier of linear glass scales?
the swedish resellers selling cheap chinese stuff are crazy
tom3p: tool comp is working from 1.6x
the idea of the glue stop ( if thats the idea ) is that the shape can flex enough to make the shape have dimensional errors, and at some point the operator 'clamped' the unfinished part with glue, putting the glue into the kerf, so the stock would'nt flex
tom3p: details nesting recognition
this allowed multiple passes with less and less cutter comp to refine the shape, untill, the last pass which cut off the remaining stock
yoyoek1: maybe i understand, the nesting makes an order that is important
yoyoek1: the nested pieces are released in a good order?
tom3p: now yes. on the end work
last, outer, outline
now i have to go back to work. When i can get done, then i can work with your tools :)
very nice helicopter frames
On the subject of interference fits: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f5ByjQgU4o
Stupid not-changing-focus-right IRC client...
lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
Hi All, can anyone help wiht an emc upgrade? I installed from 2.0.5 to 2.2.3 and my machine didn´t worked. I need help to "translate" my config files
Ito-Brazil: hi! Everything you need to know is here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UPDATING
I´ll check now, thanks!
Is there a script to change my files? Do i need to make the 2.0 to 2.1, then 2.1 to 2.2, then 2.2 to 2.3 changes? Does anyone knows what can i do to make my files work on new emc ?
there is not a script. yes you will have to make all the relevant changes.
what kind of machine is it? you might also consider starting fresh if the machine is not complex.
im thinking on that
Its a 3 axis cnc machine
When was stepconf included?
anyone know when steves_logging usually work? :P
stepper or servo?
and im using a Phase-drive stepper drive
that´s why i can´t use the wizard
I'd start with stepconf anyway, and then just change the stepgen step type and parport hal hookups
Aye, I was about to suggest the same thing.
Created as a new config it won't overwrite anything, so is risk-free
i will try that, thanks! You mena create a new config from scratch using wizard like 3 axis dir-step, then change the parapeter till have a new controller?
Indeed. You can possibly see what needs to be changed by comparing the new and old configs.
yes I agree that's the thing to do
Oke thanks a lot i will try this!
I might add a braking resistor to my inverter, it looks like the spec is 200R 70W which sounds manageable
Yes, a 50W 100R is £2.87, two of those sound like they would work fine.
[20:04:13] <e3m> http://www.youtube.com/user/DeltaCAD?gl=PL&hl=pl#p/u/23/vVJFQUL-o0s
[20:06:06] <e3m> http://www.youtube.com/user/DeltaCAD#p/u/13/Vmu0PmI5WFs
haha the music while carving venus is carmen
* frallzor cuddles with andypugh
yep fat lady singin
one of the posts is APT, another is APT ohne setznummer (without line number) nice stuff, what he posting it here for tho? i doubt its open source & free ;)
hmm another is a post for heidenhain 426, specificly an edm cnc, not for milling at all
[20:38:30] <cradek> http://www.kimfab.com/shiz/shiz9.jpg
wonder where one's legs would go while using this machine
e3m whats the interest in that cam package? its nice, is there a demo for linux?
because it is a nice movie
e3m it is nice
cradek, painful :)
cradek: that's like my machine
the servo versions come like that
mine's steppers, so it isnt as bad
I figured it was an inept retrofit :-)
that's a shizuoka
haha he even has the vice grips on the vari speed like i used to
paint on the end cap is well rubbed
yea, the crank for the knee is right next to it
they have to extend it out so it can clear the servo
[20:48:41] <cradek> http://www.timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/bridgeport/DSCN6324.JPG
the bridgeport equivalent with well-placed motors
cradek: there's no real way to do that on the shizuoka
the knee is so bulky
and the x travel uses all the table pretty much
Danimal-office: on the bp they spin the nut, so the motor doesn't have to move
i wonder what the torque is on that servo
JbLb_ is now known as JbLb
that one has the same toolchanger as mine. is it running emc?
looks like an old bandit control that they gutted and put their own stuff in
no, the thing on it is the "new" control
I lost the site it was on already, I don't know the name
maybe a shadow?
that control probably cost 10k after it was all said and done
you can buy a used haas for that
with at least 90's technology
[20:58:08] <Danimal-office> http://www.haascnc.com/home.asp
this is the mill we are using for manual stuff.. (some day it might get cnc'ed)
50 taper spindle
[21:02:03] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/images/brownsharp/scan0219.jpg
all power feeds with shuttle.
it needs a little tlc before it gets cnc'ed - the table (x) is a bit loose in the middle.
really have no clue.. 40's maybe..
what is 765?
it's the lever, of course
that engages the spindle.
skunkworks_: need a new toolkit?
[21:07:59] <alex_joni> http://www.diseara.ro/images/poza_zilei/1740.jpg
oh it doesn't have electric controls? is it older than electric factories?
that does not look appetizinh
I should have scanned the legend
especially the turd-like one on the top left
looks like a nice machine
cradek: all mechanical - just a push button to turn the main motor on.
I like sausage and bacon, but that was just wrong
thats what she said
SWPadnos any idea when the Mr im looking for usually is here? =)
pretty rarely actually
he pops on from time to time, but mostly logs
steves_logging, are you there?
Guess Ill have to rely on him reading mail soon then :P
Im an impatient little bugger
they didn't answer the phone? http://www.pmdx.com/ContactUs
no thanks :P
but im a bit more eager since my first mail about a month ago never seems to have reached the whole nine yards :P
[21:13:33] <skunkworks_> http://electronicsam.com/images/brownsharp/scan0220.jpg
That had me baffled.
G0X35 "MDI move would exceed X positive limit"
if all those feeds and stuff are working, it'd be a shame to tear it all off and make a cnc
(Jog to 35)
cradek: it is way down on the list of projects...
G0X35 ... same error
After no more than 15 minutes I realized I had typed a G0Z20 and missed out the Z... It was stuck in Inches but displaying metric.
that thing would probably have too much backlash
oh - it would need ball screws then...
that would be expensive
skunkworks_: funny on that second picture someone ineptly drew in rectangles of fake scraping marks for the knee. the perspective is wrong on them.
aloha ya'll - back at it
oh maybe not - it's a dovetail shape. I was seeing it as badly drawn box.
yes - dovetail.
i drew fake scraping marks on my mill before i sold it
advertised it as "freshly scraped"
if so, you suck
it is kind of amazing but I suppose that does trick some people
even if i did, if someone fell for it, they deserve it
Um. Hi. Anyone here?
No, nobody :-)
actually i advertised it as looser than a $10 hooker
but the price was right, so it sold
Actually, I'm going to ask the void a question, if it wouldn't mind.
sorry, you already did. you only get one.
you totally wasted it
Please, sir, cna I have some mmore?
Feel free, has to be better than comparing miling machines to ladies of nogitiable virtue
that's two :)
better ask the real question :)
hah., okay. First up, I am a complete newbie.
was that a question?
thats more of a statement than a question
Now, I just downloaded the LiveCD for EMC2.
That's OK, I am an incomplete newbie.
The computer I'm trying to install it on only has dialup.
oh my.. LiveCD+dialup doesn't sound very good
Yes, I know.
test the md5sum after downloading
It's OK if the LiveCD was downloaded on a different machine...
it's already downloaded
alex_joni: reading comprehension!
When it tries to dolwnload with the installer, it registers a 0kb download rate, then dies.
everyone shut up, we're going to get to a question here
I don't know how well Ubuntu deals with modem setup
there should be no download for the installer
Is the installer supposed to download more to install correctly?
did you manage to run the livecd?
Nyutral: nope it just installs.
No, you should be able to just burn the ISO to a CD and then boot from the CD
put the cd in, boot from it, play with the system?
what does the installer look like? I don't understand what you're seeing.
Actually, that could be another problem. I put the .iso on a CD, but there was no menu.
I used winrar to see the insall.exe
burn the image to CD, don't copy the image file to the CD
this place is odd.. for every question you ask, you'll get 10 in return ;)
Hey, as long as I get results.
By the way, you're all being very helpful, and I appreciate it.
here is a lot of information about how to burn a cd properly: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
if you look at the CD and see one file named emc2-something.iso, you did it wrong
Yes, the .iso file is a CD image, not an installer file.
hey you know it's a good url if you get it twice
* alex_joni was just typing that
Mm. I was just about to say that, cradek.
Thanks a lot, though I'm still worried.
you'll get it - come back if not
When you get the CD right, you can boot from it, and not mess with the system you are installing on
Okay. As a newbie, how do I do that? Hold a certain ke at startup?
it starts in LiveCD mode
so you get a full desktop booted from the CD
if you're happy with that, there's an option on the desktop called install
on a PC old enough to not have ethernet, it may not be trivial to boot from CD
For the record, the computer is running windows.
it's possible you have to tell your computer somehow to boot from cd. some have a menu, some have a setting in the bios.
you may have to hold a key to get to the boot menu on your computer
or what cradek said
Mm. So, in summary, burn the iso to a disk properly, then have the computer boot from the CD somehow.
You realise that the computer won't be running windows if you do a full install? That is why the LiveCD is bootable, so you can try it out without killing windows.
(You might be able to dual-boot, I never explored that possibility as mine is a dedicated machine)
Frankly, the computer is at least 12 years old, with an XP that stopped updating long ago. It's buggy as the rainforest. Replacing the operating system probably won't make it any worse.
That's the theory, anyways.
What spec is the PC?
Spec? It's got a 70 gig hard drive...
Hard drive is big enough then.
CPU and memory?
Those are both probably pretty low. 512, probably.
512MB is fine
EMC isn't very demanding, but a 64kB 386SX isn't going to work.
says you! ;)
It's possible the reletive I'm doing this for will be buying a new, blank computer for just this purpose.
I am pretty sure you would need Extended Memory
emc2 ran fine on my 300MHz geode a while ago
what's the best way to watch netflix on a linux box?
the watch instantly stuff
type 'killall firefox' in a console
Danimal-office: first, join #ubuntu and then ask there
or search on the forums..
Danimal-office: second step I'm not at all sure about
after scraping, theres a process called 'flaking' which is the pretty pattern. after the surface is flat, this pattern holds oil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_scraper
I have done a fair bit of that, it's quite satisfying.
We started off with an angle grinder on the Shaper slides though, there was 50 thou of slop.
zigzag scraper with a towel wrapped around end so you can push with your gut or hip?
My cheap chinese lathe had had the saddle ways scraped quite well, sadly not both at the same time!
ooh moglice AND scrapinf AND the big ass Biax motorized scrapers http://www.moglice.com/articles/straight_talk/straighttalk.html
( and a guy scraping a master )
That is a rather biased article, and I am not sure about "A professional scraping tool will be a special made tool, not an old file". My dad (Apprentice trained engineering fitter) always says that the commercial scrapers are useless compared to ones made from reforging an old file.
i use old files myself, but have used the BIAX with carbide inserts, they can eat stock fast.
[21:41:40] <tom3p> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-R0c-Xa8mA&feature=channel_page
Kay, back with more thanks and a few final questions: first, am I correct it thinking that if I install EMC2 it will replace windows, unless I just boot from the LiveCD?
booting from LiveCD makes it difficult to configure your machine
and is also slower, especially if there is low memory
well, you can't write the config to the CD
I mean machine as in the thing that EMC2 would be controlling, not the PC
Ah, so it won't save your settings?
Okay. For now, my reletive is only testing this out, to see if he should buy a designted computer for it, so that'll be fine.
Thanks again, you were all invaluable.
May you all have interesting lives.
"May you all live in interesting times"
that's the correct quote
not exactly a blessing either if I recall :)
and it's not even an ancient bit of oriental wisdom. I think it was first seen in a Sci-Fi book in the 1930's or something
nope it's not ;)
[21:47:34] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_you_live_in_interesting_times
my hurco vmc now runs easily twice as fast as the old hurco control
infact i had to slow it down slightly
the acc/decs i had almost had the thing jumping around the workshop
colbq200: at the cncfest 2 years ago?
alex_joni: I just found that! funny
so for the sake of the ballscrews iv slowed it down a bit
skunkworks no iv never been to a cncfest
mozmck_work: I'd recommend you "Interesting times" by Terry Pratchett
ah - ok. (just remembering talking to someone wanting to convert a hurco to emc2)
it's a really fun book
this is quite a big hurco
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
x- 765 y 385 z410
the MD1 i think it is
first time i know of scrapping reason
sure one sec
none machining i made needed scrapping
everything needs scrapping at some point ;)
colbq200: very nice - any issues?
with the conversion?
no info from hurco at all
so its all been guess work and head scratching
fortunatly i have a BIG lathe to convert
but that has every thing documented
[21:55:41] <colbq200> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/rallyslag/28122006158.jpg
my summer project is going to be an ABB 6400 robotic arm with milling head
the 6400 is a big one
I wonder if I could get one to do my ironing?
it could probably iron _all_ your clothes at once
the plan is if i can get a few 6400 working
ill be laughing
colbq200: what control? original?
you can pick them up for about 3000-5000 uk pounds
control will be EMC
sounds like a long summer
well my work is very seasonal ;)
i make composite parts for F1 and lemans cars
this will be work for the whole summer season
so its mostly winter build season
so yes emc now makes parts for F1 ;)
infact i owe EMC a lot!
cool.. what team?
its the reason i can undercut most people
well im mostly doing redbull and brawn/mercedes gp at the moment
colbq200: we plan to have some parts of emc2 ready for robot stuff by the summer
there's a big rewrite going on atm
colbq200: do you have pics of lemans parts?
A friend of mine worked for Red Bull last year. Pretty girl, no idea how good she was at KERS design though.
jackc i cant really share pics of the stuff i do sorry
well.. right now it's in not perfect shape, but it started to work again
NDA's and all
alex_joni well im happy to provide access to my machine and hardware if it can help out at all
usually I'd be delightet
but a 200-kg payload robot on the loose..
* alex_joni hides
but you can always current limit the motors ;)
i have a 6-axis robot arm here - anyone wanna play with it? :-p
right.. was just kidding
actually i ahve 2
* alex_joni works with robots for a living
i saw that EMC does the multi-axis stuff now, really want to get around to that some day
actually i already have a smaller arm to play with
My VFD has an analogue current output. I wonder if I can usefully get that data into EMC? (Adaptive feed, for example)
i got it last year but iv been so busy recently
andypugh, yes, with an A/D converter
well.. it's been at least 10 years since emc2 ran a 6-joint robot
[22:10:39] <colbq200> http://www.kawasakirobotics.com/PDFs/JS10.pdf
one of those arms
[22:11:44] <colbq200> http://www.eurobots.net/files/det_55_kawasaki-JS10.jpg
its a nice lil arm
iv just gotta get some AC servo drives
A/D sounds expensive in pins, I was wondering about voltage-frequency and an encoder.
colbq200: the genserkins I mentioned there can be used for any serial robot
(all of your arms so far are serial)
alex_joni: did you get your arm straitened out?
colbq200: serial kinematics
(kins matching the motion)
(each motor mounted on the previous one)
alex_joni, emc driving a bot?
skunkworks_: nope, haven't tried since then
I have some older bots now (3 of them) I got cheap off ebay
and I was planning (one day) to retrofit one with emc2
3 bots + 4 orig controls
maybe I can get one working with the orig control
one for spares, one for retrofitting
genserkins looks great
i take it its very much work in progress?
well.. it's not in progress anymore :)
it is working to some extents
and probably needs a bit of tweaking before putting it on iron
hello all I made 4 axis foam cuttermachine. but I need simple par port configure file for emc2
alex_joni so what is it you said thats being re written at the moment?
findux: Stepper machine?
mill or one of those hot wire ones?
colbq200: well.. there is a bit of confusion in the code between axes and joints
yes stepper motor controled but electronic not ready
joints are the moving parts of a machine, and axes are the carthesian directions
starting from that a lot of places mixed the two
so that a lot of things aren't as should be
alex_joni difficult fix?
e.g. machine limits are axes limits, and should be joint limits
colbq200: tedious work, it touches lots of layers
I made 3 axis mill
colbq200: bug me when you start working on one of the bots
4 axis hot wire before
alex_joni ok will do :)
I'll try to help with simulation/kins at least
ill see if i can knock up a sim of the 6400 first then
wont have time for a couple months probably
findux: Probably easiest to start with a 3-axis stepconf wizard configuration and then tweak it.
but ill see what i can do
ok i really should get home
its 22:30 and iv not even eaten yet
I already know it
I can use 2 axis already hot wire cutting, I want use 4 axis. I need hal ini file for 4 axis
Actually, Stepconf already does 4 axes, though the 4th is assumed to be rotary, I think.
thats a quick fix
x,y, a,b. ab axis are same xy but oposite x,y
I want to cu
lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
t xy cicular profile and ab axis tringle profile
findux: I am not clear what your question is?
sory my english
I need just hal ini file for 4 axis hot wire cutting
I think you need an X Y U V setup, U and V are linear axes parallel to X and Y
sample one like par port pin1 = x dir, par port pin2=step,.... etc
yess you get the point :)
Just use a generic 4-axis setup from stepconf, then change it. Initially the physical arrangment of the axes is irrelevant.
andypugh: we use the AD7740 V-F in our THC A-D it works really well . and its a ~$2 chip,
just feed into and encoder input configured for up/down mode and use the velocity pin for A-D output
In fact, it might be permanently irrelevant as I don't know if the Axis preview screen understands X,X,U,V geometry
lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
ok I got it thanks
I am just going to try an experiment...
For foam cutting tapers I think all the cleverness is done in the preprocessor
something just exploded
my house shook
danimal_garage: wait 5 minutes, then go see
you let the smoke out?
i already went outside, as did the neighbors
i dont know what happened... it was like this big sonic boom
you can tell it was massive, but not very close
I just tried editing the [TRAJ] section of a 4-axis mill stepconf setup, so that it says COORDINATES = X Y U V and it nearly worked.
ha, nearly worked
aystarik: thanks, but actually i just bought http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220523008542
a minute ago :)
Considering this is a 2.3.0 installation on a virtual machine with no physical parallel port I would say it was worth a try on a real machine.
apparently it was heard all over san diego county, it's already on the interweb, but noone is saying what it is yet
ı have a little problem to , my ubuntu nocked if pc is not working
Danimal-office, cleveland ?
san diego, ca
danimal_garage, duck and cover
findux: Looks like COORDINATES - X Y U V is right, but you also need to alter the joint numbers to be 0,1, 7, 8 instead of 0,1,2,3
section 2.2.8 here: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BTRAJ%5D-Section
SWPadnos: no kidding, there's a nuclear power plant, and a marine base here
They hung Chemical Ali today. Might be related :-(
must be a weather balloon popped :)
SWPadnos: maybe dryrotted from lack of use
or the aliens were hiding behind it or something ;)
i'd believe that
i really wonder what it was
it was a signifigant boom
*crawls inside lathe for cover
opps i did it wrong
how do you guys make it change color like that?
the command is "/me"
/me does something
(it didn't do it that time because I had a space before the /)
* SWPadnos teaches danimal the tricks
* archivist_emc said /me said /....
* SWPadnos is I cried
hmmm, no, I guess Neil Diamond said it better
* danimal_garage said/ danimal thanks archivist_emc
I want to know how to get my bot to say /me
how do I launch self-installed emc without sudo?
fundux: I have had a fiddle, and this looks about right for an X,Y,U,V Config
run-in-place version works fine. the one from live-cd does not need sudo either...
findux: I mean
andypugh thanx, I have a problem to , ubuntu locked when screensaver activeded
Naturally all the numbers are wrong, and the names make no sense.
Well, when you get it back, you can find those URLs in the archive
Or however you bring up that link!
I give up
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2010-01-25.txt
That's the one
Ooh! You changed the tool table. I bet there will be trouble over that :-)
I think it will change some more yet :)
I hope not :P
Aye, am I the only one who can never remember lathe tool orientation mumbers?
micges, think center line of a tool in a horizontal mill :)
now you tell me :D
well I did say a year or more ago in here
gear cutter centering basicly
I did intend writing the problem up
Yes, but this is ephemeral, stuff you actually want to get read should probably go to the mailing list. I doubt many people read through these logs religiously. (Unless it is a catholic penenace)
Anyway, isn't the tool axis always Z?
So a horizontal mill has the table in the ZY plane?
archivist_emc: can we just switch plane to G19?
ok it's too late for this
archivist_emc: I've noted this in my todo
andypugh, no xy as normall but the spindle is horizontal
micges: excellent work
Which makes Z horizontal...
no z is still vertical
Not in a horizontal mill :-)
i just put a hydro speed regulator on my crappy horizontal bandsaw, it works sooo much better than that crappy hydraulic piston that came on it
good night all
my bandsaw only has a counterspring :/
mine has a lump of steel hanging off the end
but i'm not as concerned with that as i am with the crappy stock vise
mine had an air cylnder and a flow control valve that they put oil in
yeah a friend of mine has one like that
leaked and worked horribly
this one is works quite nice
[23:29:39] <dan1mal> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/?action=view¤t=DSCN0763.jpg&newest=1
my piston got so bad it wouldnt work, so i made a bracket for this thing since i had it kicking around
puts a little side load on the piston due to the angle, but i have a few ideas for that
lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
So, your resistors are about 10x the size of your VFD?
aaanyhow, time for some doctor who
And sleep beckons here.
you can never have too much resistor!
what if you cant resistor?
Hello, I just have a small problem: how can I fix a Leadscrew in a ball bearing? (I'm some kind of confused...)
usually, you have a "journal" turned into one end, that's a smooth part that fits into the bearing
this is usually a tight press fit
do you have an image?
and then there's a nut on the end, to prevent axial slippage
hmmm. probably somewhere
(I'm not a native english specker)
[23:52:01] <SWPadnos> http://www.microkinetics.com/images/BPT%20ballscrew%20kit.jpg
just look at the ends
the smooth part is what I'm talking about
so I have to ask myself how i'll do that :D, but thanks
someone with a lathe can do it
and/or a cylindrical grinder of some sort
Yeah need to find someone..., thanks