#emc | Logs for 2010-01-22

[00:00:12] <tom3p> you can put html style comments in pyvcp xml files (eg <!-- begin cluster of analog widgets --> ... <!-- end cluster of analog widgets --> ) handy on longish files when using the spartan formatting allowed by tk.
[00:01:27] <Goslowjimbo> I just looked up chapter 5 on the integrator manual. It mentions latencies of 100,000 as being bad, and 20,000 to 50,000 as being a bit slow.
[00:01:54] <andypugh> Aye, my system runs at <7000
[00:02:37] <Goslowjimbo> When I closed GLXgears, the latency went well over 100,000. I don't know if that's from hitting the hard drive, or what.
[00:02:38] <archivist_emc> the one Im retrofitting at the moment is 12000
[00:03:23] <archivist_emc> 100000 is about the worst ive heard of
[00:03:44] <tom3p> any sim that loads a hal will likely have a 'loadrt' in it, that means it loads realtime. i just looked at a couple sims, and they did that. (stepper/sim-pinout.hal ... )
[00:03:50] <andypugh> I got 120,000 with the SMI problem. This doesn't sound like that.
[00:06:21] <tom3p> big screen update from a large hole just appearing ( glxgears went away ) = big data xfer(bitblit) , and you saw big latency.. maybe low mem? maybe video not well suited to rt?
[00:07:01] <tom3p> test with glxgears and test with hd thrashing
[00:08:00] <Goslowjimbo> I don't have a lot of money in this computer. I liked it because it was one of those fanless ones - an 800 Mhz. Via. It's got 1Mb memory.
[00:08:44] <andypugh> 1 _M_B?
[00:09:11] <Goslowjimbo> Sorry, 1 Gb.
[00:09:37] <andypugh> That should be fine
[00:12:23] <andypugh> I think I have 1GB
[00:13:05] <tom3p> 512 would be no problem, but try glxgears and hd thrashing, try to duplicate the bad thing
[00:13:23] <Simonious> hmm.. lots to learn, the family calls - but I'll be back with more questions, maybe not today, but I'll be back.
[00:13:34] <tom3p> good luck
[00:14:12] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[00:17:16] <Goslowjimbo> I've got a song playing in Utube, GLXgears running, and the latency running the buffering is so bad, it sounds terrible, but the latency is 30,000 and 48,000
[00:18:46] <andypugh> 50,000 is actually bearable, I have heard
[00:20:13] <andypugh> You can still run a stepper at a couple of thousand rpm at that latency.
[00:20:53] <andypugh> You probably wouldn't want to try to track a high-count encoder in software though.
[00:21:32] <Goslowjimbo> I've already killed my browser since the sound was untenable. That didn't change the latency.
[00:22:32] <andypugh> Is there any periodicity to the latency? Is it a regular spike?
[00:23:34] <Goslowjimbo> Not that I've seen. It's stayed at 30 and 48 for quite a while now.
[00:24:08] <Goslowjimbo> I could try to kill gears again, if you want to see what that does.
[00:24:31] <tom3p> bang! aaaaaargh!
[00:24:45] <andypugh> I'd try running with it as it is, and see if you have problems.
[00:27:35] <Goslowjimbo> I just tried to run EMC2 demo step sim with GLXgears running, and it gave me latencies over 9,000,000 and crashed.
[00:28:16] <andypugh> I think that's a record!
[00:29:11] <Goslowjimbo> Actually, it was demo_step_cl.
[00:29:15] <andypugh> Though I am not entirely sure that you can run EMC and the latency tester at the same time?
[00:29:47] <Goslowjimbo> They tell you not to in the manual. I guess now we know why.
[00:30:53] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[00:32:18] <andypugh> Aha! I get a latency of 52,522,080 on this machine. However that is running under VMWare on my Mac. :-)
[00:33:31] <andypugh> I suspect that a virtual machine is not a good realtime target...
[00:34:06] <Goslowjimbo> yeah, probably not.
[00:34:58] <Goslowjimbo> So much for holding a record.
[00:35:39] <Goslowjimbo> I can get it to run without the latency test, but still have the grayed out boxes.
[00:38:32] <Goslowjimbo> Oh, I also get the unexpected realtime delay message when I start up.
[00:41:45] <ries> Goslowjimbo: when that delay happend, did you have any fans going on? In my case this was a issue.. and sounds like SMI problems
[00:41:55] <ries> * ries is just dropping in
[00:42:13] <Goslowjimbo> No, I'm sure of that one. THis is a fanless Via computer.
[00:42:48] <ries> then is must be a other management interrupt... I think, I am far from a guru though... I had issues on my laptop, can you repeat the latencies?
[00:43:29] <Goslowjimbo> Sure, what circumstance do you want?
[00:43:54] <ries> if you can repeat it, try running setsmi before you do the tests... then check if you have these high latencies again
[00:44:26] <Goslowjimbo> OK
[00:45:28] <Goslowjimbo> Do I have to be in a certain directory to run setsmi?
[00:46:38] <jackc> Goslowjimbo: things that start with ./ or a path are for a directory, just words will run from paths set in your env vars
[00:46:45] <jackc> Goslowjimbo: so the short answer is no
[00:50:53] <Goslowjimbo> Do I just run setsmi in terminal?
[00:51:21] <jackc> i havent personally used it, but given ries's wording i'd say thats a good plan
[00:51:42] <ries> Goslowjimbo: sorry, I was reading something
[00:51:52] <ries> no, you don't have to run it somehwere, just type setsmi
[00:52:24] <ries> and yes, you run it from a terminal as root... if you have the ubunty CD I 'think' it's just about runing sudo setsmi
[00:53:11] <Goslowjimbo> It says command not found.
[00:54:00] <Goslowjimbo> I am using the hardy CD.
[00:58:12] <ries> Goslowjimbo: try (with tab completion) /usr/realti<tab>/bin7setsmi
[00:58:21] <ries> at ztab> hit the tab key :)
[00:58:52] <ries> I am not sure if setsmi is in hardy .... but let me look up what versoin that is :) I only have a bit of experience with ubuntu 8.x
[00:59:45] <ries> Ahhh yes.. hardy is 8.x, I never remember these names Ubuntu is using
[01:03:52] <ries> Goslowjimbo: found anything?
[01:04:13] <Goslowjimbo> jsr@jsr-emc2:/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/bin$ sudo /usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/bin/setsmi
[01:04:13] <Goslowjimbo> /usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/bin/setsmi: 6: rtai-config: not found
[01:04:13] <Goslowjimbo> cannot find rtai-config (hint: make sure it's in the path; usual location: $PREFIX/bin)
[01:07:23] <Goslowjimbo> and
[01:07:28] <Goslowjimbo> jsr@jsr-emc2:/$ sudo /usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai//bin/setsmi
[01:07:28] <Goslowjimbo> /usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai//bin/setsmi: 6: rtai-config: not found
[01:07:28] <Goslowjimbo> cannot find rtai-config (hint: make sure it's in the path; usual location: $PREFIX/bin)
[01:07:28] <Goslowjimbo> jsr@jsr-emc2:/$
[01:14:30] <Goslowjimbo> rtai-config is in /usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/bin. Isn't that where it's supposed to be?
[01:16:10] <jackc> echo $PREFIX
[01:16:41] <Goslowjimbo> Oh, it comes up blank.
[01:17:38] <jackc> export PREFIX=/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/
[01:17:44] <jackc> depending on shell, iirc
[01:18:58] <Goslowjimbo> That changed PREFIX, but setsmi still can't find it.
[01:20:51] <jackc> hmm
[01:21:01] <Goslowjimbo> jsr@jsr-emc2:~$ export PREFIX=/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/
[01:21:01] <Goslowjimbo> jsr@jsr-emc2:~$ sudo /usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai//bin/setsmi
[01:21:01] <Goslowjimbo> /usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai//bin/setsmi: 6: rtai-config: not found
[01:21:01] <Goslowjimbo> cannot find rtai-config (hint: make sure it's in the path; usual location: $PREFIX/bin)
[01:21:01] <Goslowjimbo> jsr@jsr-emc2:~$ echo $PREFIX
[01:21:02] <Goslowjimbo> /usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/
[01:21:04] <Goslowjimbo> jsr@jsr-emc2:~$
[01:32:29] <Goslowjimbo> I looked up my PATH. It's not in there. I'm quitting for dinner now. Will retry tomorrow (hopefully). THanks for the help.
[02:06:48] <ries> Ooo yeaaa I remember.... you need to add /usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/bin to your path, or else it won't work...
[02:31:14] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[03:43:40] <tom3p> wow after several years of using iPaqs, i finally got a keyboard for it. it SO much nicer than a pointed stick with the on screen kbd :)
[03:58:24] <cnc_valen> trying to get this coolant pump to work
[03:58:53] <cnc_valen> but I cant for the life of me work out what the gpio pin is called
[03:59:11] <cnc_valen> net FloodOn iocontrol.0.coolant-flood => hm2_5i23.0.gpio.01
[03:59:23] <cnc_valen> gives me hm2-servo.hal:216: pin 'hm2_5i23.0.gpio.01' does not exist
[03:59:35] <cnc_valen> how do i find what the pins are called?
[03:59:46] <cnc_valen> hm2_5i23.0.gpio.P3.041.out is another style
[03:59:52] <cnc_valen> (which doesn't work
[04:00:55] <cnc_valen> any ideas?
[04:07:03] <pcw_home> halmeter?
[04:07:36] <cnc_valen> might doit
[04:09:25] <cnc_valen> that looks like the stuff
[04:11:58] <kevinh_> hello
[04:18:12] <tom3p> cnc_valen: in emc , open the 'hal configuration' panel to see names of every pin signal & function
[04:18:25] <tom3p> kevinh_ hello
[04:19:59] <tom3p> in pyvcp the 'scale' widget is munged, the example in the integrator manual shows it. the min_ and max_ are rerversed, and that make the use of the initval impossible (always out of bounds)
[04:20:36] <SWPadnos> or halcmd show pin "5i23*gpio*"
[04:20:50] <tom3p> try to make a scale with 100 at top and -100 at bottom, and initval at -33, cant, the thumb will always be at 100
[04:21:16] <tom3p> cuz te 'top' is called min_ and the bot is called max_
[04:27:06] <tom3p> i swapped the from_ and to_ in the def for the scale and it seems to be correct now ( max 20 min-.4 initval 0 puts thumb correct on widget at startup )
[04:28:27] <tom3p> hmmm gota test horz version westerners will be comfortable with top = max & rt = max,,, bot = min, left = min
[04:31:34] <tom3p> ok that was the problem: designer allowed it to be vert or horz but didnt look close at vert ( i didnt look close at horz ). it needs diff logic for min & max when vert vs horz.
[04:36:26] <danimal_garage> w00t got my vfd on my manual mill. now i dont need my rotary phase converter for anything but my surface grinder
[04:45:03] <tom3p> danimal_garage: you've built a whole machine shop in the last couple weeks. damn!
[04:45:24] <danimal_garage> ha
[04:45:32] <danimal_garage> taken me a bit longer than that
[04:45:53] <danimal_garage> i started collecting equipment last april
[04:46:48] <danimal_garage> now i'm out of room lol
[04:52:57] <tom3p> i got a patched pyvcp_widgets.py that makes correct scale widgets now. anybody want one ? http://pastebin.ca/1761149
[04:58:58] <danimal_garage> what is it for?
[04:59:09] <danimal_garage> spindle speeds and whatnot?
[05:18:14] <tom3p> for me, a voltage applied for testing and a position limit when in velocity mode
[05:19:14] <danimal_garage> cool
[05:19:58] <tom3p> there's a second patch in there for a 'spinbox' widget, it wasnt updating correctly when the user directly edited it. now its fixed. it uses 'enter' as a 'validator'
[05:20:26] <tom3p> not as much fun as working on machines, coding is boring
[05:25:45] <danimal_garage> yea, but working on a greasy old machine sucks too
[05:26:27] <danimal_garage> i just crawled out from behind my cnc mill, i'm in the middle of putting the braking unit and braking resistor on for my spindle's VFD
[05:26:56] <danimal_garage> my friggin knees are killing me from trying to fit back there and drill & tap holes
[05:28:50] <danimal_garage> shop is coming together though... got some pegboard hung today so i can organize my tools i use on the mills. Also got a fan in my VFD and power supply enclosure for the lathe so i can close the door now, which means i can put my welder in it's place
[05:29:59] <danimal_garage> got a new hoffman enclosure for my mill's pc and stepper drives too
[05:31:23] <danimal_garage> made a plate today so i can use my horizontal bandsaw as a vertical saw as well
[05:32:13] <danimal_garage> and once i get my brakeing resistors hooked up, i can eat dinner and have a beer so i can go to bed
[05:32:27] <danimal_garage> it's 9:30pm now
[05:33:01] <GonMD> thats not late
[05:33:14] <GonMD> staying up till 4am working on a trig math app for cnc machines is late
[05:36:04] <danimal_garage> it's late for doing manual labor
[05:36:33] <danimal_garage> ive been up till midnight everyday for a while now working on shop related stuff
[05:36:47] <danimal_garage> and i start around 8am
[05:36:52] <GonMD> true
[05:37:23] <GonMD> my usual morning wakeup time as of late has been 10:30
[05:37:32] <danimal_garage> i got alot to do before i reopen
[05:37:51] <danimal_garage> lol my dogs would flip if i slept till 10:30
[05:38:00] <danimal_garage> they wake me up around 7
[05:54:57] <cnc_valen> still trying to get this io pin to work
[05:55:21] <cnc_valen> axis is seeing it
[05:55:41] <cnc_valen> and it seems to be showing up in halconfiguratioon
[05:55:59] <cnc_valen> but a meter on the output wires they all read 3.3v
[05:56:34] <cnc_valen> is there something you need to do to tell it that something is anoutput?
[05:56:46] <danimal_garage> yes
[05:56:54] <cnc_valen> net FloodOn iocontrol.0.coolant-flood => hm2_5i23.0.gpio.043.out net MistOn iocontrol.0.coolant-mist => hm2_5i23.0.gpio.045.out
[05:56:59] <danimal_garage> what are you trying to do?
[05:57:11] <cnc_valen> i have those two lines in hm-servo.hal
[05:57:24] <cnc_valen> turn a coolant pump on
[05:57:44] <cnc_valen> I can see an input working at pin 39
[05:57:52] <cnc_valen> but no outputs
[05:58:00] <SWPadnos> setp hm2_5i23.0.gpio.043.is_output 1
[05:58:05] <SWPadnos> same with 045
[05:58:14] <danimal_garage> ah SWPadnos beat me to it
[05:58:25] <danimal_garage> damn my chicket pecking
[05:58:35] <SWPadnos> drag nad drop,baby :)
[05:58:36] <danimal_garage> chicken*
[05:58:37] <SWPadnos> and
[05:58:47] <SWPadnos> (would have been faster on Linux, with the middle-click-paste thing)
[05:58:49] <danimal_garage> i'm on a windows box
[05:58:52] <Jymmm> drop baby? ouch
[05:58:55] <SWPadnos> me too
[05:59:09] <SWPadnos> select in scroll buffer, drag to edit buffer
[05:59:12] <danimal_garage> i punch babies myself. much more effective than dropping
[05:59:22] <SWPadnos> nighty night
[05:59:26] <danimal_garage> night
[05:59:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos:
[05:59:31] <Jymmm> wait
[05:59:35] <Jymmm> hold on
[05:59:38] <Jymmm> yo
[05:59:38] <SWPadnos> but - sleep
[05:59:49] <danimal_garage> valen, are you using a 7i37?
[05:59:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Just wanted to say g'night =)
[05:59:53] <cnc_valen> why are these things not in a manual somewhere?
[05:59:54] <SWPadnos> pissant
[05:59:57] <cnc_valen> 5i23
[06:00:01] <danimal_garage> they are valen
[06:00:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: love you too!
[06:00:09] <cnc_valen> danimal which one?
[06:00:12] <SWPadnos> it is in the manual, and also in the sample configs
[06:00:14] <danimal_garage> but it's hard for it to all soak in
[06:00:29] <cnc_valen> I am using the sample configs
[06:00:30] <SWPadnos> night Jymmm
[06:00:38] <Jymmm> =)
[06:00:40] <danimal_garage> i read the manual like 80 times before anything soaked in
[06:00:48] <cnc_valen> the manual seems to have lots of info on making low pass filters
[06:01:01] <cnc_valen> a little light on something like say turning a pin on
[06:01:10] <danimal_garage> but i'm not a programmer type, i'm a machinist
[06:01:23] <danimal_garage> are you reading the integrator's manual?
[06:01:49] <cnc_valen> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/
[06:01:58] <cnc_valen> reading through hal there
[06:02:08] <danimal_garage> oj
[06:02:10] <danimal_garage> oh
[06:02:17] <danimal_garage> i just use the integrator's manual
[06:02:19] <cnc_valen> its all pretty words and nicley formatted, but nothing actually usefull
[06:02:28] <cnc_valen> might have more in it
[06:02:53] <cnc_valen> wheres that?
[06:03:35] <danimal_garage> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl
[06:03:45] <danimal_garage> the wiki is where i get most of my info
[06:04:14] <danimal_garage> the integrator's manual is in the wiki
[06:04:35] <danimal_garage> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_Integrator_Manual.pdf
[06:04:53] <cnc_valen> I'll have a look at it
[06:05:03] <cnc_valen> meantime my relays are clicking thanks guys
[06:05:30] <danimal_garage> are you using any sort of breakout board?
[06:05:46] <danimal_garage> how are you connecting to the 5i23?
[06:06:21] <cnc_valen> yeah with a 7i37
[06:06:34] <danimal_garage> you may have to invert the output
[06:06:34] <cnc_valen> my outputs are inverted however
[06:06:45] <danimal_garage> yep
[06:06:47] <cnc_valen> yeah
[06:06:48] <danimal_garage> mine too
[06:06:54] <cnc_valen> any pointers?
[06:07:35] <danimal_garage> well with any of the pins you use from the mesa boards, you need that same thing that SWPadnos posted
[06:07:45] <cnc_valen> which one?
[06:07:57] <danimal_garage> but for inputs, it is output 0
[06:08:22] <cnc_valen> oh so hm2_5i23.0.gpio.043.is_output 1 should be hm2_5i23.0.gpio.043.is_output 0
[06:08:39] <danimal_garage> yes, for inputs
[06:08:55] <cnc_valen> its outputs I'm looking for
[06:09:07] <danimal_garage> yea, well for future reference
[06:09:12] <cnc_valen> when I start emc the coolant pump relay turns on
[06:09:28] <danimal_garage> you need to invert it then
[06:09:37] <cnc_valen> yeah how do i do that?
[06:10:23] <danimal_garage> setp hm2_5i23.0.gpio.043.invert_output true
[06:10:36] <cnc_valen> ahh cool
[06:10:49] <danimal_garage> you have to have that line, plus the line that SWPadnos gave you
[06:11:03] <cnc_valen> yeah
[06:11:04] <danimal_garage> those are the parameters for that pin
[06:11:22] <cnc_valen> do you happen to know off the top of your head what the spindle on pin is/
[06:11:24] <cnc_valen> ?
[06:11:34] <danimal_garage> the parameters will be in the hal section of the ini
[06:11:36] <danimal_garage> yes
[06:11:43] <cnc_valen> could you tell me?
[06:11:45] <cnc_valen> ;-P
[06:11:56] <danimal_garage> there's a couple you can use... do you have reverse as well as forward?
[06:12:28] <cnc_valen> it does but thats manual
[06:12:38] <cnc_valen> so just power on and off at the moment will do
[06:12:44] <danimal_garage> ok give me a sec
[06:15:25] <danimal_garage> net SpindleOn hm2_5i23.0.gpio.xxx.in_not halui.spindle.start
[06:15:32] <danimal_garage> opps sorry
[06:15:54] <danimal_garage> thats wrong, hold on
[06:17:43] <danimal_garage> <danimal_garage> net SpindleOn => motion.spindle-on => hm2_5i23.0.gpio.xxx.out
[06:17:59] <cnc_valen> motion.spindle-on
[06:18:06] <cnc_valen> heh snap
[06:18:34] <danimal_garage> the signal (SpindleOn) can be anything you want, as long as it isnt used already
[06:18:58] <danimal_garage> you know how all that works?
[06:19:01] <cnc_valen> yeah
[06:19:08] <danimal_garage> ok
[06:19:15] <cnc_valen> its the little magic bits that i have problems
[06:19:17] <cnc_valen> with
[06:19:22] <danimal_garage> ah
[06:19:42] <danimal_garage> yea, you need the parameters to tell it what the pin does
[06:19:57] <danimal_garage> i'm just learning this stuff myself
[06:20:23] <cnc_valen> just about to plug spindle into relay
[06:20:28] <danimal_garage> cool
[06:20:32] <cnc_valen> if i go away its because the smoke came out
[06:20:40] <danimal_garage> haha
[06:20:51] <cnc_valen> coolant pump works
[06:21:00] <danimal_garage> cool
[06:21:03] <cnc_valen> know off hand the gcode for flood and spindle on?
[06:21:16] <danimal_garage> m8 for coolant on
[06:21:21] <danimal_garage> m9 for off
[06:21:27] <danimal_garage> m3 for spindle on
[06:21:31] <danimal_garage> m5 for off
[06:22:01] <danimal_garage> you should have little buttons in axis now for the spindle and coolant
[06:22:01] <cnc_valen> ok testing
[06:22:19] <cnc_valen> yeah i was going to try wit mdi forthe coolnessnext
[06:24:00] <cnc_valen> M8/9 works, 3 and 5 dont seem to
[06:25:39] <cnc_valen> ahh need to set spindle speed
[06:26:16] <danimal_garage> yea forgot to tell you that
[06:26:24] <danimal_garage> sxxx
[06:26:36] <danimal_garage> s300 for 300rpm
[06:26:58] <danimal_garage> i usually put it in the same line as the m3
[06:27:08] <danimal_garage> s300m3
[06:27:26] <cnc_valen> that got it
[06:27:39] <cnc_valen> sweet thanks man
[06:27:41] <danimal_garage> cool
[06:27:46] <danimal_garage> no prob
[06:27:52] <cnc_valen> one virtual beer on the hu
[06:27:55] <cnc_valen> house
[06:27:57] <danimal_garage> haha
[06:28:08] <danimal_garage> thanks
[06:28:25] <cnc_valen> dad's here, got a link to your machine and your site?
[06:28:52] <danimal_garage> sure hold on
[06:29:17] <danimal_garage> http://homebrewedcomponents.wordpress.com/
[06:29:33] <danimal_garage> got some pictures down there somewhhere of some of my machines
[06:30:27] <danimal_garage> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/hardinge/
[06:30:35] <danimal_garage> there's my hardinge i just finished
[06:31:44] <danimal_garage> some old pictures of my shizuoka, it's a bit different now: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/shizuoka/
[06:32:17] <cnc_valen> shiny
[06:32:38] <danimal_garage> actually most of the shizuoka pictures are with the original bandit control
[06:32:54] <danimal_garage> thanks, not too shiny now, everything is pretty well used lol
[06:33:36] <cnc_valen> lol
[06:34:04] <cnc_valen> hows your servo conversion going?
[06:34:53] <danimal_garage> didnt end up doing it
[06:35:02] <danimal_garage> got the steppers running better
[06:38:26] <danimal_garage> holy crap, just got my braking unit hooked up
[06:38:52] <danimal_garage> it stops the spindle dead from 4000rpm's in like no time at all
[06:41:14] <danimal_garage> thats insane
[06:43:10] <cnc_valen> i'd imagine it gets a touch warm
[06:43:43] <cnc_valen> anyway I
[06:43:50] <cnc_valen> 'd better get goinh
[06:43:55] <cnc_valen> running late as it is
[06:44:02] <cnc_valen> thanks for the help
[06:53:07] <danimal_garage> ha i started and stopped this thing a bunch of times and i cant feel any heat from the braking resistors
[08:50:40] <Jymmm> alex_joni:
[09:20:49] <numen> hi
[09:21:36] <numen> how could i add a gamepad to emc2 for controlling axis? so that i can use a gamepad with analog sticks vor controlling the speed while manual moving, ist that possible?
[09:22:44] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[09:27:33] <pjm> numen there is an article about using game-pads to jog axis, in the linuxcnc wiki
[09:29:42] <numen> yes, ive read
[09:30:19] <numen> but i have not seen, that is possible, to use the analog parts uf the joypad for controller direction and speed of the axis together
[09:30:54] <micges_work1> it's possible
[09:31:48] <numen> so i could use an logitech rumplepad2 wireless controller, for controlling the mill?
[09:33:04] <micges_work1> you must connct it like it is said on wiki
[09:33:05] <numen> micges_work1 do you know, where i could find en example config file?
[09:33:18] <micges_work1> nope
[09:33:24] <numen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Using_A_Joypad_To_Move_Your_CNC_Machine
[09:33:29] <numen> micges_work1 this one?
[09:33:30] <micges_work1> micges_work1 is now known as micges
[09:33:57] <micges> yes
[09:34:46] <Valen> danimal got the coolant pump and spindle working on mah mill
[09:34:49] <Valen> tis spiffy
[09:35:01] <numen> but there isnt wrote something, about using the analog sticks vor controlling speed and direction of the axis together
[09:50:00] <micges> try to connect it as it is on page first
[09:53:53] <numen> i have to buy one for at work
[09:54:08] <numen> and i should not buy one, which does not work^^
[09:56:00] <Valen> I'll have to play with that afain
[09:56:02] <Valen> again
[09:56:14] <Valen> i'm lightly baked, my typing is slurred lol
[10:51:59] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[12:51:54] <jthornton> :/ my 8.04 computer won't boot up
[15:41:55] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[16:08:47] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[16:13:57] <Danimal> jthornton: that sucks, hardware or software related?
[16:27:52] <tomp> tomp is now known as tom3p
[17:27:01] <Danimal> video of my shizuoka's spindle decel after braking resistors and the braking module: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9Z6Dkx8YeI
[17:27:20] <Danimal> dont mind the chips, it's a hard worker
[17:27:47] <eric_unterhausen> nice
[17:27:51] <Danimal> i dont think i'll have a problem rigid tapping now :)
[17:27:54] <Danimal> thanks
[17:28:39] <cradek> your problem will be if your Z axis can't accel to keep up - you might have to turn the spindle down a bit
[17:32:23] <Danimal> yea, i wont be tapping at 4000rpm
[17:32:34] <cradek> more like 400
[17:32:49] <Danimal> hopefully 1000
[17:32:53] <Danimal> ish
[17:33:02] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[17:33:06] <Danimal> 5mm taps
[17:33:42] <Danimal> i have millions of the same hole to tap, thru holes in aluminum
[17:33:46] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[17:33:51] <Danimal> gotta go as fast as i can
[17:34:09] <toastydeath> form taps
[17:34:15] <toastydeath> just to throw my two cents in
[17:34:22] <Danimal> yea maybe
[17:34:26] <cradek> for thru holes I think spiral point are better than form
[17:34:36] <cradek> for blind holes, no competition, use form if you can
[17:34:47] <Danimal> i'll experiment
[17:35:00] <cradek> yep for thousands you can experiment a bit :-)
[17:35:07] <toastydeath> I guess with 400 rpm it doesn't matter much
[17:35:25] <toastydeath> I was tapping a bunch of holes at a couple grand and form taps held up better
[17:35:58] <Danimal> when i get rid of the varidrive on the spindle, it should accel and decel much better
[17:36:26] <Danimal> the varidrive on a shizuoka is fairly substantial in weight
[17:36:38] <Danimal> i had it off when i transported the machine
[17:36:53] <bill2or3> is that the same machine @ buildyouridea, by chance?
[17:37:03] <Danimal> i dunno
[17:37:09] <Danimal> got a link?
[17:37:21] <bill2or3> http://www.buildyouridea.com/cnc/Shizuoka/Shizuoka.html
[17:37:23] <cradek> toastydeath: do they hold up 2-3x as long? (as I think they're 2-3x as expensive)
[17:37:26] <SWPadnos> I hope you got a braking resistor that's meant for 100% duty cycle
[17:37:36] <cradek> toastydeath: I've only used form taps a tiny bit
[17:37:39] <toastydeath> i have not had a tap break on me yet
[17:37:44] <toastydeath> in form tapping alum
[17:37:47] <SWPadnos> they're usually undersized, since you usually don't brake a lot
[17:38:12] <Danimal> SWPadnos: i got 2.2kw resistors
[17:38:20] <Danimal> 2 of them
[17:38:22] <toastydeath> i'd say they last orders of magnitude longer at much higher surface speeds
[17:38:29] <SWPadnos> ok, with suitable thermal mounting those should be fine
[17:38:45] <Danimal> SWPadnos: they dont even get warm
[17:39:01] <Danimal> no noticable temp change
[17:39:05] <SWPadnos> have you done a test with 1000 reversals or so?
[17:39:24] <Danimal> bill2or3: similar machine, but i have an an-s, which is a bit bigger
[17:39:33] <SWPadnos> full speed, reverse to full speed (or at least expected tapping speed), repeat
[17:39:41] <bill2or3> ahh.
[17:39:42] <cradek> for thousands of holes maybe you just want to use a tapmatic?
[17:39:51] <SWPadnos> yeah, no kidding :)
[17:39:53] <Danimal> SWPadnos: probably 25-30, from 4000rpm
[17:40:11] <skunkworks_> bill2or3: that guy is using mach... ;)
[17:40:12] <SWPadnos> your power feed will thank you if you use a tapmatic
[17:40:18] <cradek> you'd have to sacrifice 5 or 6 taps to get the speeds set right... :-)
[17:40:19] <bill2or3> loser.
[17:40:49] <Danimal> tapmatics are no fun
[17:41:02] <cradek> true, and they're a big pain, but they're fast
[17:41:21] <Danimal> true
[17:41:23] <toastydeath> why can't you tap at 4000 rpm
[17:41:28] <toastydeath> if you have rigid tapping
[17:41:33] <eric_unterhausen> seems like the tapmatic has a limited number of cycles in it
[17:41:52] <Danimal> regardless, i wanted faster braking for toolchanges, etc
[17:42:37] <eric_unterhausen> how many parts do you have on the machine at once anyway?
[17:43:12] <Danimal> 16, 3 holes each
[17:43:23] <Danimal> SWPadnos: the resistors i got: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/DSCN0746.jpg
[17:43:40] <SWPadnos> big! :)
[17:43:48] <Danimal> a little lol
[17:43:54] <Danimal> the price was right though
[17:44:01] <SWPadnos> yeah
[17:44:11] <Danimal> same as a stove burner
[17:44:13] <SWPadnos> there was an eBay store that had that kind of stuff, but I think he's gone
[17:44:17] <eric_unterhausen> wow
[17:44:35] <SWPadnos> hdb electronics. I think I got 4 220W resistors for about $11 (total)
[17:44:42] <Danimal> nice
[17:44:52] <Danimal> i paid 20 for both of these
[17:46:26] <Danimal> SWPadnos: i got the braking unit that is for my vfd as well, the manual said with that and a 1200watt resistor, i can have 100% braking torque
[17:46:32] <cradek> dang, I need me one of those
[17:46:45] <Danimal> they got more!
[17:46:48] <cradek> or maybe two
[17:46:55] <Danimal> got them from the surplus yard
[17:47:06] <Danimal> i can grab some when i get your vfd today
[17:47:18] <cradek> slick
[18:10:22] <Danimal> hmm maybe i'll get my toolchanger working this weekend
[18:10:28] <Danimal> on the mill
[18:11:17] <Danimal> i wouldnt know what to do with myself if i didnt have to change tools manually
[18:22:09] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[19:00:37] <jthornton> Danimal I hardware I think
[19:01:08] <danimal_garage> didnt that box work fine with windows?
[19:01:44] <jthornton> yes, it won't power up now so I'm going to try another power supply
[19:02:04] <danimal_garage> maybe the 5i20?
[19:03:05] <jthornton> no, the computer that I do the dev docs on
[19:03:21] <danimal_garage> ah
[19:03:31] <jthornton> brb gotta go tig weld a couple of parts
[19:38:21] <robh_> a quick rigid tapping video i did, if any one is intrested doing M3 holes in Alli - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6p1-h5Rlv4
[19:39:08] <cradek> beautiful
[19:39:44] <cradek> what's the acceleration on that machine? it seems very high
[19:41:06] <robh_> for the axes
[19:41:35] <cradek> I can tell you have spindle-at-speed feedback hooked up - it gets to the next hole so fast it has to wait for the spindle to finish spinning up
[19:41:40] <robh_> 2000 i think i have it set on xyz
[19:42:05] <robh_> yea i had to, other wise u get down to part and start machinig before ur upto 6K
[19:42:05] <cradek> = 80 ips2, very nice.
[19:42:21] <robh_> ur JR is that quick isnt it cradek ?
[19:43:38] <robh_> im waiting for spindle encoder module for VFD to come hoping i can spin spindle up sharper then, has brake resistor on
[19:43:39] <cradek> yes it will do 80, but I turned it down to 30 because I didn't like how the floor shakes
[19:43:56] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[19:43:57] <cradek> I don't think I have much floor thickness
[19:44:13] <robh_> yea if u do small moves but mine is on a good solid floor on its pads so u dont notice it at all
[19:44:52] <robh_> have you tryed putting it on any of them sound padds, or even on just some bits of ply?
[19:45:27] <robh_> i did reigid at 2K but did not gain anythink as spend too long waiting on spindle
[19:46:03] <robh_> as only 10mm or so of thread in them parts so coming out was awaste plenty quick enuth at 1500rpm
[19:46:36] <cradek> no, it's right on the floor, seems like it would crush anything else :-)
[19:47:23] <robh_> i find they are very well spread on weight on the jacking screws
[20:00:13] <geo01005> Anybody know of a way to find out if someone has a patent on a particular technology?
[20:00:57] <cradek> patent lawyers do this research all the time
[20:01:19] <geo01005> I know I can search the online patents and all, but I'm not confident that I been able to find all the terms that this technology could use.
[20:01:39] <geo01005> http://www.oemdynamics.com/
[20:02:16] <geo01005> The patent number on that web page has nothing to do with the linear harmonic drive.
[20:02:33] <geo01005> They say that other patents are in progress, but it has said that for years now.
[20:03:13] <tarzan> belt drive?
[20:03:38] <geo01005> It could be that their patent is still being reviewed... but for like 4 years?
[20:03:58] <geo01005> It is more than just a belt drive, it is a gear reducing belt drive.
[20:04:21] <geo01005> I'm very interested in the technology for cnc/automation applications.
[20:04:24] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[20:04:54] <geo01005> However, the cost of animatics components are out of sight.
[20:08:15] <ds3> patents seems to take forever
[20:13:58] <alex_joni> http://juve.ro/blog/projects/radio
[20:23:29] <micges> alex_joni: finshed project?
[20:24:01] <alex_joni> micges: for now yeah
[20:24:53] <micges> cool
[20:25:43] <micges> today I've run ja3 gantry on my machine
[20:25:55] <micges> 10m/min without any problems
[20:26:19] <alex_joni> sounds great ;)
[20:26:39] <cradek> is that two motors on one axis?
[20:26:44] <micges> yes
[20:26:51] <cradek> how do you home them?
[20:27:10] <micges> both at time, why?
[20:27:30] <cradek> you just use homing sequence so they move approximately together?
[20:27:36] <alex_joni> micges: that's one of the things people ae asking about gantries
[20:27:48] <micges> yes
[20:27:50] <alex_joni> s/ae/are/
[20:28:26] <cradek> interesting - that's pretty simple
[20:28:31] <micges> after mounting home switches I've measured skew after homing wothout any HOME_OFFSET and properly set those values
[20:28:40] <micges> that's all
[20:28:51] <cradek> neat
[20:30:27] <micges> but one important thing: both joints must be the same or there must be very precisely measured scales on both
[20:32:36] <cradek> certainly
[20:39:29] <alex_joni> Jymmm: http://juve.ro/blog/projects/radio
[20:40:59] <cradek> neat
[20:43:37] <LawrenceG> alex_joni, nice job on the internet radio
[20:49:49] <alex_joni> thx
[20:54:34] <Danimal> robh_:very nice
[20:54:48] <alex_joni> could have used a CNC on the panels.. ;)
[20:55:40] <Danimal> robh_:very nice
[20:55:48] <Danimal> opps
[20:55:58] <Danimal> alex_joni: also very nice
[20:56:06] <jt-plasma> alex_joni: cool
[20:56:27] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[20:56:50] <Danimal> jt-plasma: did you see my vid of my mill spindle with the braking resistors added?
[20:57:03] <jt-plasma> no, I missed it
[20:57:14] <Danimal> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9Z6Dkx8YeI
[20:57:29] <Danimal> 4000rpm, 120hz
[20:57:47] <jt-plasma> I'll have to wait till this download is finished to watch :(
[20:57:51] <jt-plasma> cool
[20:58:08] <alex_joni> looks great
[20:58:10] <Danimal> stops it pretty quick now
[20:58:14] <Danimal> thanks
[20:58:21] <Danimal> dont mind the mess :)
[20:58:39] <alex_joni> what mess? :P
[20:59:16] <Danimal> yea, that's not the real mess lol
[21:00:59] <Danimal> notice i dont pan out
[21:01:14] <archivist_emc> :)
[21:01:14] <alex_joni> heh
[21:01:18] <archivist_emc> mess rules
[21:01:34] <Danimal> mess equals money
[21:01:53] <Danimal> or scrap lol
[21:02:41] <Danimal> i cant wait to mount the resistor for my lathe
[21:06:04] <jt-plasma> danimal that thing is slinging chips now :)
[21:06:59] <Danimal> the mill?
[21:07:42] <Danimal> yea, she's been running since like may
[21:08:07] <Danimal> admittedly mostly half-assed till recently
[21:08:38] <Danimal> starting to get somewhat legit
[21:20:23] <andypugh> Does anyone know what would cause a BLDC motor to simply oscillate rather than rotate when connected to the drive?
[21:20:57] <SWPadnos> a bad sensor or driver would probably do that
[21:20:58] <andypugh> The drive wants a TTL compatible 60 degree signal.
[21:21:40] <andypugh> I don't know what the motor is, but it seems to output 0 or 5v from the halls as it turns, and the phases have continuity
[21:23:38] <andypugh> I have two motors and 3 drives, and have tried the permutations.
[21:23:55] <andypugh> I am wondering if there is a fundamental incompatibility.
[21:24:05] <SWPadnos> ah, different models
[21:24:52] <andypugh> Yes, I should have said. Motors from eBay in Thailand, drives from eBay in California, forming an unholy starcrossed union in Basildon, UK
[21:28:10] <danimal_garage> anything from California is bound to be f'ed up :)
[21:28:15] <danimal_garage> just look at me
[21:30:36] <andypugh> I think it might be the relationship between the phases and the hall sensors that is wrong, but I am not sure how to check what it should be.
[21:30:45] <tomaw> [Global Notice] Hi all. It seems we're again seeing javascript based flood spam. If you're experiencing this, please do not click the links in the messages as they will cause you to repeat the spam. More information is available at http://blog.freenode.net/?p=386. Thanks!
[21:31:21] <danimal_garage> reverse them?
[21:32:05] <andypugh> There are 3 motor wires and 3 Hall sensor wires, so there are quite a few options.
[21:32:20] <jackc> 6
[21:33:16] <andypugh> I have tried swapping two Halls, and switching start, ie 123, 132, 231, 312
[21:33:29] <danimal_garage> are the hall sensors able to sense direction?
[21:33:46] <andypugh> No, just TTL outputs.
[21:34:06] <danimal_garage> well then they have +,-, and signa, right?
[21:34:14] <danimal_garage> signal*
[21:34:41] <andypugh> I guess I have little to lose by trying all the options, but I think it is more than 6, at least 16, possibly 25 I think
[21:34:50] <andypugh> Yes.
[21:35:08] <andypugh> I am happy that + and - are right.
[21:35:47] <danimal_garage> does signal ground to - everytime it senses?
[21:36:50] <danimal_garage> i dont see how you can really get the hall wrong unless you have + or - incorrect
[21:36:53] <andypugh> I don't really understand the question. I am wondering if the drive wants negative logic and the motor is positive, or vice-versa though.
[21:37:31] <danimal_garage> yea
[21:37:52] <andypugh> It is a question of whether H-A, H-B, H-C on the drive are Hall 1, Hall 2, Hall 3 on the motor in that order or not.
[21:38:17] <danimal_garage> oh i gotcha
[21:38:47] <danimal_garage> sorry, i know how hall sensors work, however i havent dealt with servos that dont use a tach
[21:39:16] <andypugh> The sensors are just for controlling the commutation.
[21:39:32] <danimal_garage> yea i figured it just replaces the tach
[21:39:48] <andypugh> No, it replaces the commutator :-)
[21:40:19] <archivist_emc> is it like a stepper, "swap till it works" ..with the obvious disclaimer :)
[21:40:43] <andypugh> Possibly, though that cost me a few drivers when I was setting up the steppers.
[21:42:00] <jt-plasma> dang them Weihenstephaner Original beer is good :)
[21:42:09] <andypugh> I think I am going to connect the phases to one motor, and the halls to another, and draw a table of what hall inputs produce what phase voltages.
[21:43:22] <andypugh> (I am concerned that not having a motor connected might upset the driver)
[21:43:57] <Danimal> can you hook the halls to your mesa bourd for testing and watch the scope?
[21:44:39] <andypugh> I have a real scope, so I will use that.
[21:44:53] <Danimal> oooh la ti da
[21:44:56] <Danimal> lol
[21:46:08] <andypugh> Did I gloat about how cute the scope is? It's a little Tektronix storage scope from abiut 1984, with onscreen menus drawn in vector graphics. Must have cost a fortune new, and it can hide under a sheet of Letter size paper.
[21:46:33] <Danimal> nice, you were looking for one for a while, right?
[21:47:01] <andypugh> Yeah, eventually I went to the shop, and saw it looking tiny and technical, and was sold.
[21:47:09] <Danimal> cool
[21:47:18] <Danimal> always good to find stuff locally
[21:47:51] <andypugh> It wasn't local, I took half a day off work and drove 200+ miles. (A full lap of the M25 round London, in fact)
[21:48:04] <Danimal> oh ouch
[21:48:27] <andypugh> Wasn't too bad, I took the laptop, logged data from the car and used work fuel :-)
[21:48:36] <Danimal> ha
[21:49:01] <archivist_emc> research!
[21:49:19] <Danimal> i just realized i've slowly converted myself to second shift
[21:49:54] <andypugh> I am drifting later and later to work, nobody has commented yet.
[21:50:22] <Danimal> yea, i still havent gotten any work done yet
[21:50:28] <Danimal> and it's 2pm
[21:50:39] <Danimal> but i work till midnight usually
[21:50:59] <andypugh> I had an 0830 meeting today though, and felt hung-over till 11am. Which considering I last drank alcohol last saturday is not good.
[21:51:17] <Danimal> just means it was a good saturday
[21:51:44] <andypugh> Nah, it just means I am not meant to be out of bed until well after daylight happens.
[21:51:56] <Danimal> ha
[21:52:46] <andypugh> OK, time to plot phase relationships.
[21:53:18] <alex_joni> http://failblog.org/2010/01/22/friday-rewind-chair-fail/
[21:54:51] <Danimal> ha
[21:55:42] <micges> hehe
[21:58:00] <Goslowjimbo> Can't get setsmi to work. : jsr@jsr-emc2:~$ sudo $PREFIX/bin/setsmi
[21:58:00] <Goslowjimbo> /usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/bin/setsmi: 6: rtai-config: not found
[21:58:00] <Goslowjimbo> cannot find rtai-config (hint: make sure it's in the path; usual location: $PREFIX/bin)
[21:58:01] <Danimal> when your chair fails on national television, you know it's time for Jenny Craig
[21:58:31] <Goslowjimbo> jsr@jsr-emc2:~$ echo $PREFIX
[21:58:31] <Goslowjimbo> /usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai
[21:58:53] <Goslowjimbo> jsr@jsr-emc2:~$ echo $PATH
[21:58:53] <Goslowjimbo> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/bin:/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai
[22:00:10] <Goslowjimbo> I edited $PATH myself. export PATH=....... DOn't know if that is the right way to do it, but it looks like the right answer.
[22:04:51] <Goslowjimbo> I'm not so sure it's SMI anyway. I can't get the latency above 31,000 today.
[22:32:55] <Goslowjimbo> I always get the unexpected time delay warning when I bring up demo_step_cl. I wonder if that's why classic ladder controls are grayed out?
[22:33:17] <SWPadnos> shouldn't be related
[22:33:53] <Goslowjimbo> I would expect them to get refreshed when I minimize them and bring them back, but the controls are still grayed out.
[22:34:19] <SWPadnos> that means they're disabled, and minimizing/maximizing doesn't change that
[22:34:59] <Goslowjimbo> You can enable them separately?
[22:35:58] <tom3p> alex_joni: nice job on the radio, i've been looking for a case, and wanted an old radio http://tinyurl.com/yzlgv8v
[22:36:19] <SWPadnos> Goslowjimbo, what classic ladder controls are you talking about?
[22:36:32] <SWPadnos> the menu item(s) in AXIS, or some of the controls in the CL window?
[22:36:44] <SWPadnos> if it's controls in the CL window, which ones are grayed out?
[22:38:24] <Goslowjimbo> everything on the section display and sections manager. Just the labels and mix, min and close buttons are visible.
[22:39:07] <SWPadnos> what version of emc2?
[22:39:58] <Goslowjimbo> How do I find the version?
[22:40:14] <SWPadnos> in the axis help menu
[22:40:19] <SWPadnos> or possibly in the axis title bar
[22:40:49] <Goslowjimbo> 2.3.4. It's in the help menu on this one.
[22:41:24] <SWPadnos> ok
[22:44:16] <Goslowjimbo> This has the TkEMC display rather than axis, and it looks fine.
[22:44:31] <SWPadnos> not an issue
[22:44:32] <Goslowjimbo> max=mix
[22:44:56] <SWPadnos> so, are you trying to edit the ladder? is that why you want to see the controls un-grayed?
[22:45:59] <Goslowjimbo> Well, for one, I was trying to see what the action of the Estop button was so I could figure out whether I needed to have Estop on or Estop off.
[22:46:31] <Goslowjimbo> THat means I need to scroll in the ladder logic.
[22:46:43] <SWPadnos> oh - you can't scroll either?
[22:47:04] <SWPadnos> what happens if you make the window larger?
[22:47:25] <Goslowjimbo> The bigger picture is I have a mill with several mesa boards out at the barn that behaved like this when I used this computer.
[22:47:45] <Goslowjimbo> I do want to do a lot of editing and testing with cl out there.
[22:48:40] <Goslowjimbo> I can't find the scroll button.
[22:48:56] <SWPadnos> if there's no scroll bar on the right side, then you're looking at the whole ladder
[22:49:33] <Goslowjimbo> Wow. I just kept searching for the scroll button. When I finally clicked on it, all of the controls came back.
[22:50:06] <SWPadnos> I think you may have to click in the ladder display to (kind of) select something, which may bring the controls to life
[22:50:38] <Goslowjimbo> Strange. It doesn't work that way on my other computer.
[22:51:16] <tom3p> "it" ???
[22:51:24] <Goslowjimbo> Now there's a message "GUI reloaded with existing ladder program"
[22:53:03] <Goslowjimbo> EMC comes up displaying the cl program screens without controls: new, load, editor, etc.
[22:54:27] <Goslowjimbo> SWP: I don't get the reload when maximizing.
[22:54:28] <SWPadnos> the realtime ladder module is the one that actually executes the ladder
[22:54:41] <SWPadnos> that can't change while the RT module is loaded
[22:54:45] <SWPadnos> (AFAIK)
[22:55:08] <SWPadnos> all the controls in the window title bar are not owned by the program, they're owned by the window manager
[22:55:33] <SWPadnos> so when you click on the title bar (or the border) to resize, the program doesn't even know about it
[22:55:47] <SWPadnos> (it does get a resize event, but that's not the same as a user click)
[22:55:56] <SWPadnos> so click in the window and see if the controls get enabled
[22:57:18] <jthornton> hmm, a new power supply does not fix it, a new (different) video card does not fix it... hard drive runs a bit but no signal out to the monitor
[22:57:43] <SWPadnos> jthornton, does it beep and try to boot, or does it appear dead?
[22:57:45] <jthornton> reseated mem chips
[22:58:05] <SWPadnos> take them out entirely and see if you get the pitiful bleating of a PC with no memory
[22:58:13] <jthornton> power light comes on and sometimes it beeps
[22:58:15] <jthornton> ok
[22:58:31] <SWPadnos> also, disconnect the hard drive and other storage devices
[22:58:39] <jthornton> beeeeeep, beeeeeep
[22:58:42] <SWPadnos> no need to have those plugged in at this stage
[22:58:48] <danimal_garage> processor?
[22:58:52] <SWPadnos> ok, that's good. how many RAM modules are there?
[22:59:02] <jthornton> 2
[22:59:11] <SWPadnos> put one of them back in
[22:59:16] <SWPadnos> and see what happens
[22:59:16] <jthornton> ok
[23:00:05] <jthornton> fans come on, hd light flickers a bit
[23:00:14] <SWPadnos> no beep of satisfaction?
[23:00:24] <jthornton> more hd activity
[23:00:25] <Goslowjimbo> I clicked in the window where editor is. The editor came up, but the editor is all grayed out also, and the section display doesn't appear to get reloaded.
[23:00:28] <jthornton> no beep at all
[23:00:40] <tom3p> http://www.pchell.com/hardware/beepcodes.shtml
[23:00:45] <SWPadnos> interesting. does it usually beep when you boot up?
[23:00:46] <andypugh> I think I have figured out why my BLDC motors don't work.
[23:00:56] <jthornton> hd led is flickering
[23:00:56] <andypugh> http://www.todocontrol.com/index1.html is the motor (with commutation pattern)
[23:01:03] <jthornton> I can't remember
[23:01:05] <jthornton> I think so
[23:01:23] <SWPadnos> I'd expect one short-ish blip after the memory sizing/test
[23:01:23] <andypugh> http://www.bodine-electric.com/Motorgram/Asp/ViewArticle.asp?Context=/motorgram/200903/handbook.htm&Section=Engineer's%20Notebook
[23:01:34] <jthornton> nothing
[23:01:35] <andypugh> Shows the motor commutation pattern
[23:01:44] <jthornton> swap mem chips?
[23:01:44] <SWPadnos> ok, remove that module and put in the other one instead
[23:01:47] <SWPadnos> yes :)
[23:02:25] <andypugh> It looks like I get the same pattern, as long as I invert the B-channel hall sensor.
[23:02:42] <tom3p> make sure to not confuse the 2 memories now ( one is suspect of killing bus or p/s )
[23:03:16] <jthornton> same, after a few seconds the hd led starts to flicker but the keyboard lights never come on
[23:03:28] <jthornton> usually the num lock is on...
[23:03:42] <SWPadnos> hmmm. it's possible that you need to have two modules in that machine (strange, but possible)
[23:04:04] <SWPadnos> you may be able to try using a different DIMM socket
[23:04:12] <SWPadnos> it's possible the socket is bad or dirty
[23:04:30] <SWPadnos> bbl
[23:04:44] <jthornton> ok, thanks
[23:07:10] <tom3p> ami or phoenix bios?
[23:08:12] <danimal_garage> can you even get to bios, or does it not even try to boot at all?
[23:10:20] <tom3p> it beeps, i was trying to find out which bios, then how many beeps ( with no cards, no mem, no kbd, no maus )
[23:12:59] <andypugh> Is it likely that Bodine would use a quad NOR gate as a wierd sort of input buffer?
[23:13:54] <tom3p> like a line driver?
[23:13:58] <andypugh> The published commutation table for their gear does not match that for the driver chip on the board. The driver chip on the board does match what my motors do,
[23:15:36] <andypugh> OK, time to buzz out that 4001 chip immediately next to the hall inputs.
[23:15:38] <archivist_emc> may be used as a negative logic and
[23:16:11] <andypugh> Yes, I need to draw up some truth tables.
[23:17:22] <andypugh> But 010 on the halls gives no output at all. (hence the motor stops). Bodine have 000 and 111 as a valid input in their docs (and, indeed, there is motor power when the halls are unplugged)
[23:18:45] <andypugh> I need to look at what happens if I swap that chip for an AND or XOR or something :-)
[23:19:10] <andypugh> What is CMOS logic output?
[23:19:25] <andypugh> I have only ever really played withTTL
[23:20:15] <archivist_emc> its closer to the rails iirc, but has a wader vcc range
[23:22:18] <tom3p> input hi 3.5/5V lo 0-1.5V outputs on the rails
[23:23:01] <tom3p> whats Vdd on your chip?
[23:23:09] <andypugh> I am about to find out...
[23:23:34] <dmess> hi all
[23:30:42] <tom3p> could be 5 to 15V=, keeps the same ratios
[23:30:46] <tom3p> bbl
[23:35:50] <jthornton> danimal_garage: it does not boot up at all
[23:45:41] <andypugh> It's 5V Vcc
[23:46:21] <andypugh> But I am not at all clear how it is hooked up to the sensors, if at all. There are seris capacitors and they always confuse me.