no biggie just a few more holes to tap
why the height restriction?
heat issues, or it just wouldnt fit?
another part in the way
well I just broke off a 10-24 tap (the only one I have here) and managed to get the broken bit out of the hole so I'm calling it a night
while I'm ahead
jt-plasma: Hey, it's all good, youcaould have done a blind hole
yea I know
i have a bunch, but alot of good they do you here :)
jt-plasma: Just go grab some boose and a lazyboy chair =)
i broke about 3 6-32 taps when i was doing my cabinet
I have more at the other shop and it is a glass of red for me now
it's what I get for using a tap for alum on steel
i HATE 6-32 taps
try 4-40 on 1018 for some fun
I use electo-lube mostly for steel they are slick
I found the taps I get from mcmaster-carr are much less likely to break than the vermont american ones from the hardware store
[00:33:19] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.flickr.com/photos/15174376@N00/4267869984/
bike in progress
eric_unterhausen: looks great!
120 mm spacing so I can switch if I want
internal geared hub?
yeah, it's a 1949 Sturmey 3 speed w/built in dyno
my new commuter
that's gunna be cool
keep me posted on the progress
hopefully goes to powder coat soon
it's only taken me since 1975 though :)
to build this one frame? lol
or to learn how to do it
yes, it's my first frame from way back when
dug it out of storage
ohh ok i thought it was a new build
I replaced the dropouts
didn't know how to braze dropouts on the first one
I'm hoping to finish a new frame this week, I'm displaying at NAHBS
i got some customers that'll be there
my chain tensioners will be on some bikes
do you make diamond encrusted ones for show bikes?
nope, just ball lint encrusted ones
dammit i'm still having gearchange issues
yay i got it
gearchange is up and running
danimal_garage: drop the tranny and toss in an automatic
it's got a vfd
but i wanted to use hi and low gears
danimal_garage: Then toss in a NO2 kit
na, just needs moawr b00st
slap on some slicks
my vfd doesnt like the sudden gear change, i'll have to stop the spindle first (like cradek suggested)
well - 3 of the 4 servo drives work.
one smoked on arival ;)
going to see what the seller wants to do - A 10uf surface mount capasitor seems to be shorted...
eh - still a pretty decent deal..
thats good at least
there were some nice drives with a power supply on ebay for like 300
heh - I think these where it.. ;)
4 B40A40AC for 300
well they were on there 2 days ago
how many did you need?
we needed 3 - but it would be nice to have an extra ;)
you can fix it though, right?
amc stuff has the part numbers ground off of it
makes me feel like reverse engineering it
eric_unterhausen: we noticed that... looks like they paint something over it that takes the part numbers off. like crinkle paint.
all the ones I've seen have been ground, but maybe they got lazy
in fact, I've seen some lead frames on a few parts
i'm thinking about buying/building a static phase converter for my coolant pump
you can do it with come caps and a contactor
you need some run caps for the whole time it's running, and some extra for starting
or if you do it really carefully you might get by with just the run cap (that's what I did)
cool i'll look into it
i found some plans to build one, looks pretty easy
dammit i have to install java just to make an xml file?
i just noticed i have 2 different resolvers
the x axis is a singer, and the z axis is a harowe
Is anybody using the hardy SMP kernel from experimental on linuxcnc.org? I just tried it out and it seems to not have parport module compiled in.. when I try to start emc it complains it cannot find the symbol parport_register_device, and the config file it installs in /boot lists CONFIG_PARPORT not set... Yet the config.i386 online has it in. Do I have to recompile?.. ugg
dangit ubuntu runs esd hidden in the background and inhibits /dev/audio wasted a couple hours on that one ps ax | grep esd 5016 ? S 0:00 esd -nobeeps
hmm... just noticed another smp folder not under hardy... I'll give that one a try..
workaround: System | Preferences | Sound | Sounds | uncheck 'Enable software sound micing ESD' does not seem to bother audacious/VLC/mplayer or RaelPlayer
cradek: you're probably in bed by now, but if you see this, did you use both the rough and fine home switches, as well as the index?
I just used the rough home switch (i think)..... the one that isnt in the resolver/tach assembly, along with the index, and it seems to be repeating ok, but just curious if you did something different or experienced problems the way i did it
JEEBUS, I just found a 0.01 Ohm resistor in my bins
you have bins?
i have cardboard boxes full of crap i pulled off my machines
well i had a somewhat productive day, i got my gearchange working, and my home switches working
wow, those are bins for sure
on a chrome rolling rack, works out nicely
like loafs of discounted bread at vons
my servos seem a bit loud and rough, i wonder if there's a way to smooth them out
10 ton press?
all i got is a 20 ton
hello anyone here?
those are fun
* Vq makes another notch
alex_joni: what's goin on
not much.. work
alex_joni: no cussing like that please!
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alex_joni: I saw the walloops, didn't actually read the details till now =)
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what does this do G01 Z [0-#2] F#4 ... i understand g01 and f, but what does [0-#2] do? is that zero minus two ?
#2 is like a variable in programming. SO somwhere in the program there is a line that says maybe #2 = .001 - so that line is [0-.001] = -.001
you can't negate a variable, so you have to subtract it from zero
it's a stupid limitation. the short explanation for why Z[-#2] doesn't work is that - in that position is treated as the first character of a number
as in the unlikely Z[-5]
the "simple" solution is to treat things that begin with '#' as numbers
(after substitution, of course
I think that's probably a bad idea
and probably not simple
probably - and + in that position should be treated as unary operators, like they are in C where you can write y = -x;
but yuck, who wants to change how the gcode interpreter parses expressions.
let's get Ken to do it!
but kennys dead
the other ken
ok I foolishly thought I could do it
it's hard because the arguments of unary functions are in . so, allowing [-[#1]] is easy, but allowing [-#1] is hard
I'd have to crap it up pretty bad to allow [-#1] and that means I'd probably break something weird
huh, I didn't know this was currently allowed: G0ZSIN
(I thought it had to be Z[SIN])
I'm also surprised that works
because the S should trigger a read-real-number
our mental models match each other but not the code apparently
ah, read-real-value will read a unary word
[15:40:03] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/0001-Allow-unary-negation-of-expressions.patch
READ => #1=2
READ => G0Z[-#1]
6 N..... STRAIGHT_TRAVERSE(0.0000, 0.0000, -2.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000)
READ => G0Z[-3]
8 N..... STRAIGHT_TRAVERSE(0.0000, 0.0000, -3.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000)
READ => G0Z-SIN
13 N..... STRAIGHT_TRAVERSE(0.0000, 0.0000, -0.7071, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000)
and passes runtests
you're smarter than me
that's far from clear
did you check a line like G0Z-
c1 will be the null
you pass that to read_real_value, which should error with NO_CHARACTERS_FOUND
and you want it to still give 'bad number format'?
oh I don't care, I'm just being nervous because you're sort of at the end of the line and you go on without noticing
but read_real_value does handle it, so it's probably fine
easy enough to make it give the same error and not recursively enter read_real_value
READ => G0Z--------------------------------------2
7 N..... STRAIGHT_TRAVERSE(0.0000, 0.0000, 2.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000)
that's a fascinating result
there do happen to be an even number of unary minuses there
yep I tried it with an odd number just for fun
[15:54:41] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/0001-Allow-unary-negation-of-expressions-v2.patch
-- makes the error for G0Z- the same as before
that's the same patch
let me try harder then
[15:55:52] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/0001-Allow-unary-negation-of-expressions-v2.patch
I like it better
cradek: i'm working on home switches now.... it seems to work ok with just the rough home switch and index, but i'd like to add the fine home switch like you did
i was thinking i could use an and2 logic components... is that how you did it?
to tie the 2 home switches together
no, I used mesa's index mask feature
cradek jepler thx for working on that, [0-#var]
I think your way might work too, though. you'd have to be sure you don't have two virtual limit switches though.
if your coarse prox stays on for an inch or two, emc will think you have many home switches if you do it your way. you'd have to be very careful which one you home to
[above when I said limit, I meant home]
index mask feature... i'll look into that too
have you tried just using the course home switch and index?
no, I wouldn't trust it. there are a lot of indexes and they are close together.
.02" each index, right?
could be - I'm not sure what the gearing is
i think it's 10:1
you'd have to trust your coarse prox quite a bit to think you'd always get the same index if they're .02 apart
5 revs per inch, 4096 counts per rev for the resolver, that equals 20480, 1/10th of our scale
yea, your right
seems to be repeating, but all it takes is being off once to scrap some stuff
obviously with the original control they didn't trust it
yeah the problem is .02 isn't even "obviously wrong"
(I guess .2 barely is)
it's almost ready to run, maybe even today
except for the turret, that'll take me some time
do you have the feedback hooked up? it's the easiest tool changer ever
the servo ferror is less than .0002"
not yet, might get that done today
you did a ladder for it, right?
for a good time, set up a tenths indicator and have a look at a move at f.005
wow thats slow
yeah, about .0001"/sec. on mine it's perfectly smooth.
mine seems a bit noisy
not as smooth sounding as the old control
maybe you have a bit of oscillation somewhere
yea, i was gunna play with it some more
or a ground connection missing somewhere?
possibly, i didnt see a ground for the servo amps, but i figured it was just because it was DC
i got shocked when i accidentally touched the heat sink
the noise is only when it's moving..it's dead quiet when stationary
aside from a very slight high pitched hum
yeah mine whine a bit when sitting too
much quieter than my stepper machine
i gotta get the lube setup before irun it
whats your ferror?
i saw what you had it set at, but what are you seeing on the scope?
not sure, it's been a long time
most of my SSR's seem to be crap
there's an auction for a lot of them locally ( a regular auction, not online)...i bet i can get a ton of them for a few bucks
dead or flakey
iirc surplus center has them for not-much
some work, some dont, some work when they want to
but again ... the machine was working right before?
I don't understand how so many bad parts were on your working machine
including a servo amp!
well i dont know if the lube was working or anything like that... i do know the basic functions worked
the servos did work, i must have screwed the amp up somehow
come to think of it, some stuff didnt work all the time, but i just wrote it off as bad wiring in the control... they used solid core wire, and alot of the connections needed to be resoldered
up in the control pannel
if it was all flaky, no wonder you didn't debug anything too carefully
now you expect it to all work reliably - that's what's different!
yea, i shoulda spent more time with it i guess
i got it powered up and realized how much the controller sucked so i stripped it down
mine was similar - the control would move it (jog and mdi) but that was it
I never got a program to run - I even punched a tape and tried that
i didnt have a tape reader, and i couldnt figure out the ustor
my ustor was definitely dead
so i gave up
yours doesn't have a tape reader behind the ustor?
mine seemed to work, i could enter code
mine is on the inner door
it had the bulb and the actual reader, but there were no motors or spools
it had a dummy plate in there
however it must have had that stuff at some point, there were tape remnants in the door
there are no motors or spools - the only motor is on the little wheel that goes in the index holes
that big bin below is where you 'stored' the tape
i was picturing more of a reel to reel kinda thing
some had reels, but threading the tape is a pain
this way you just clip it in the read head and it goes wherever
i wonder if the old parts are worth anything
power supplys and the such
I've wondered that too
I was thinking the pcbs
i dont know who would use a 5v 50A power supply
people who test LEDs
to someone trying to keep one running, they would be, but who would do that?
hey SWPadnos has one... maybe he'll buy our old controls as spares
exactly, they are horrible controls
"working when I took it off the machine! can't test because I don't have the power cord!"
more likely I'll try to sell it - maybe we can make a 3-pack
"7 day no-doa warranty, buyer pays return shipping"
mine's "might have been working when they took the hacksaw to the conduit" ...
ouch, you lost your special resolver cables then
well he probably has enough to put the pico boards in the left enclosure and hook thm up in there
yeah depending on where they cut it
that's where i put mine, however i didnt cut much of the wire, i left it long and zip tied it up
the previous owner of mine UNPLUGGED the wires going to the control
i could have gotten away with 1 foot of cable
iirc they all plug in except about six wires that go to screws
yea, they unplugged mine too
yep, power cables and servo motor cables are the only ones that screwed in
at least on mine
that conduit is pretty fancy
cradek: did you use a ladder program for the turret, or were you able to do it all in hal?
I used ladder for everything I could
IMO ladder is the easy way to do all logic/sequencing
I think the only hal component I used other than ladder was weighted_sum to decode the turret signals
that part looks easy, the ladder is new territory for me though
but now that I think of it, that would be super easy to do in ladder too
i suppose i need to learn it, i do have a boat anchor of a toolchanger on my mill that would be nice to use
it's worth it IMO
doing complicated stuff with hal blocks is very tedious
[17:29:55] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ClassicLadder#Cradeks_Classicladder_Cheatsheet
yea, i saw your cheatsheet, very nice
the symbols look easy, i just dont know where to start
well think of it in sequence. emc asks for tool change on one pin, turret should lift and spin until the right tool is there, turret stop should engage, it should wait a bit to settle, turret should go down, it should wait for the turret-is-seated signal, then tell emc it's done
i'll give it a shot
every step gets kicked off by the success of the previous step
think about these successes and what they mean should now happen
that means a lot of state is "stored" in the ladder
I like to hook estop to the ladder too, and make an estop reset everything to a sane state
yea i remember we had to do that when the machines we build went wacky (using ladder and a plc)
unfortunately i didnt do any of the programing, i just built and wired it
i love being on hold with the dmv
maybe you even want a failure to cause an estop (what if you say turret down, but it doesn't read as seated after a few seconds? you know it's stuck between positions, or a long tool hit something - you sure don't want your program to continue
yea, good point
that could be messy
i'm gunna go give the home switches a shot
thanks again for the tips
if you don't have much to do, may be this is a nice as a extra bobby : http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/search_results.aspx?k=1&searchKeyword=robot&searchCategory=&sortExpression=&sortASC=&pageSize=&searchMethod=description
danimal_garage: how are you driving the SSRs? Flaky SSR behavior could be caused by the drive arrangement
Best for FPGA cards --> SSR is SSR+in to +5V(from cable pin 49), SSR-in to GPIO
and then GPIO bit set to open drain mode
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pcw: i'm using a 15v power supply and my 7i37
the 15v power supply was the same one that the machine used for those relays originaly
Oh OK I thought they might be 5V SSRs directly driven by the 5I20
well come to think of it, one i was having issues with was the one i was using to enable my servo amps, and that was driven from the enable signal from my 7i33
can the enable pin on the 7i33 be opendrain?
i guess i can just make the enable signal come from the 7i42 and make that opendrain if the 7i33 cant do it
i didnt want to use my 7i37 though, i'm almost out of outputs
No 7I33 enable out is a CMOS push pull output (though it is 5V)
If the 7I33 wont drive your amp enables, I doubt the FPGA card will
Maybe your enables are > 5V
you tie enable to ground to enable it
I used a 7i37 opto iirc
yea, i was trying to trigger the SSr with the enable output on the 7i33, and the SSR was supposed to ground the amp enable
the SSR's are supposed to run on as low as 3v, but i think most of them arent good
pcw_home: Have you considered making a microstepping daughter board that dosen't require softdmc?
SSRs are probably not too good from grounding enables - too high on voltage
the enable is 12v
what's the best program to use for making xml files?
Well I suppose the 7I32 could be run from EMC, I think Criss Morely (sp?) has a sample config
We do have a step_dir drive were playing around with but its bigger (8A 80v or 6 A 150V)
Is softDMC capable of doing non-trivial kinematics?
I suppose you might be able to do non-trivial kinematics with the event stuff...
With SoftDMC we can do closed loop step motor drive with 7I32, Maybe with a CPU with low latency (SMP)
EMC could do it as well (needs 30-50 KHz servo loop)
Kinematics are beyond the scope of SoftDMC I just does trapezoidal (position based)
or S curve (time based) motions
I see. I'm looking for a low cost method of controlling a delta robot.
EMC is the best option at first glance because solving the kinematics is pretty easy.
however, if the kinematics are calculated ahead of time. then I could just use a 7i43 running SoftDMC, that is alot cheaper.
With SoftDMC as long as you dont need fancy real time feedback, you can use the USB 7I43 and
fill SoftDMCs Q FIFO with PVT packets (for linear interp)
(thats what the Mach plug-in does)
I suppose SoftDMC could be augmented to be able to control heaters as well?
with thermocouple feedback, and a PWM output.
We had a customer use SoftDMC for controlling a Thermoelectric module so its doable
though you dont normally need so much speed for thermal devices
SoftDMC will eventual share the HostMot2 I/O devices so things like thermocouple feedback will be easier
but seems like all this would be simpler in EMC (SoftDMC could also be a HostMot2 module for EMC)
Sure, just with EMC you need a computer.
But thats a good thing...
wtf, why is it so hard to install stuff in linux
all i want to do is make a xml file, and openoffice says i need java
so i found instructions to install java, but it still wont save it as a xml file
danimal_garage: sudo apt-get install sun-java6-jre
and: sudo apt-get install openoffice.org2-java-common
thanks, do i do both, or just or either/or?
both in that sequence
ah ok thanks
well crap that seems easy... why do they have you go through a bunch of crap in the instructions?
you can list any number of packages in a single apt-get invocation: apt-get intsall sun-java6-jre openoffice.org2-java-common
you ahve to spell "intstall" correctly, however
for a more user-friendly interface to all the available software, run "Synaptic" under System > Administration. It has some ability to search, if you have guesses about the package name or description for what you're trying to find
now you tell me!
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when (the version of) the software you want is packaged already, nothing beats debian/ubuntu for easy installation (redhat/fedora users: yes, rpm+yum is very nice too). with only rare exceptions, the software will install, will install all its prerequisites, and will automatically get any updates that are packaged for it.
if the software you want isn't packaged, it can be a whole other story
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I wonder if he's having some trouble using irc
might be using the chat client on linuxcnc
that thing is flakey
on a windows machine anyways
I never use it, but I don't doubt it
yea i use mirc
but that thing is boarderline unusable
not flakey.. (I use it exclusively)
you can have my text mode irc client when you pry it from my cold, dead hands
skunkworks_: are you using it on windows or linux?
i tried it on a few computers, and it wouldnt work well at all
only time I notice it flakey - it is my internet connection.
it is a java app.. Maybe not up to date?
first thing i checked
granted - I am sure other irc clients are better - I am just lazy
i was on wifi at the time, so maybe the connection was a little too poor
now i'm on a wired network
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ok something is wrong... when i load emc, the penguin shows for a few seconds and axis never shows
danimal_garage: try run it from terminal
i have a feeling it's the xml file i'm trying to make for pyvcp
you'll see errors
when i try to save the xml file, it says there is formatting that may not save on the doc book file format
i dont know how to run emc in terminal
the only thing i changed is the xml file
you're running emc from package or you downloaded source and compiled?
You should be able to start a terminal window and just type 'emc'
oh, you're trying to use openoffice to edit a vcp xml file? I am doubtful that'll work. I would use a text editor like gedit instead.
danimal_garage: the xml file is just a text file, , a tiny text fiel, you can make it with a text editor, you can see examples on the wiki
you can save as an xml with gedit? i thought i tried that
yes nano, pico, vi, gedit, scite
micges: i just downloaded emc from the linux page
i know nothing about compiling.. i'm not too computer litterate
so like andypugh said: You should be able to start a terminal window and just type 'emc' and press enter
yay it worked with gedit
now it's working good
sweet now i have an spindle speed bar
i just added an accelerator ( hotkey) for a terminal ( System | Peferences | Keyboard shortcuts | Desktop | Run a terminal --> ALT + T )
note: write a vertical 'bar' widget, fsks up pyvcp layout sometimes with only horz
i guess i spoke too soon, the bar is there, but i guess i didnt link the spindle speed to it correctly
You need to link in the postgui.hal file.
The pyvcp component doesn't exist to be linked to when emc reads the main hal file.
yea, i had a postgui.hal file
the hal file works for my gearchange buttons
cool, speed shift ok?
yep, works great
we dont need no stinking clutches ! bam! 3rd gear
well, hi and low gears are engaged by clutches
they arent actually gears
just 2 sets of belts and pulleys
more or less
both on the same shaft
but each one has a magnetic clutch
so i think i know my issue here... i need to tie the motion.spindle-speed-out pin to my spindle-speed.pyvcp pin
how do i do that since i cant add the pyvcp pin to the config line that is already using the motion.spindle-speed-out pin
since they have to be in different hal files
not clear on what you have, but you cant have 2 source signals tied together. the 'signal' is the name of the 'wire' between pins. if you already have the signal named, yoiu can add pins to it later, but not another signal
or defer all the 'wiring' till later
ah ok, i got it working
linksp spindle-speed-cmd pyvcp.spindle-bar
well, kinda working... it works, but it doesnt stop at the limits for hi and low gear
might have it on the wrong pin, but i can figure that out
hmm, the widget is a % thingy, maybe you need 2 widgets & selected-gear leds
yea that might work
i'll play with it
a % thingy is a % of something, and you cant change the something (its %of 7500rpm or %of20000rpm) it should be correct for one OR the other, a good thing to test out before investing in the duplex model.
you can mux2 the signals, no need for indicator leds, the live monitor is the one of interest
ok i'll give it a shot a little later, thanks alot
i'm gunna put in some led's for my home switches so i can fine tune them a little easier
Talking of wiring, I had my first foray into using Verowire today.
It's a pen/dispenser for a spool of enamelled wire with a solder-through enamel. So you can point-to-point wire on matrix board. It's like wire-wrap but directly onto component legs.
Details are here: http://www2.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/525000-549999/532630-an-01-en-Verdrahtungsstift.pdf
man a pyvcp led widget makes adjusting home switches super easy
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I wish I had had the Verowire pen when I made the break-out board.
Hopefully tomorrow I will buy an oscilloscope with enough channels to align the A and B channels of my encoder.
I'm attempting to setup EMC2 on an Ubuntu 9.10 system. I've compiled the OS with the Real time patch, I've compiled and installed the RTAI system, loaded and compiled EMC2 from a Tarball.. everything is very stable. But when I try and run anything that requires the realtime system to kick into gear I get an error. The first error that shows up on the terminal screen is:
insmod: error inserting /usr/realtime/modules/rtai_hal.ko: -1 operation not permitted
When I try and run emc from a configuration created by stepconf, I get a nice EMC2 error window and it says "Realtime System Did Not Load" and then a number of errors after that since the RT system isn't there.
Does this sound like my Ubuntu 9.1 Kernel source was not patched properly? I tried running EMC2 as root and that didn't help.
dmesg should give a bit more detail
That is version 9.10, not 9.1 as I typed.
Ok, I'll try that.
Hmmmm.. I get a message that says RTAI CONFIGURED WITH LESS THAN NUM ONLINE CPUS. Sounds like I need to reconfigure RTAI... any idea how that is done? I hope not in the configure file for the kernel compiler?
Now one on me.
New one, I mean
Google the error message?
I have an SMP configuration and I used a non SMP .configure file to compile the kernel but I went in and changed the .configure file so it was setup for an Intel Pro type cpu and I turned on the SMP..
Google ... yep sounds like a plan.. :-) Thanks.
I found some links.. the error went right to the RTAI users manual.. There certainly are a lot of docs on Linux related software! Nice...
cradek: got the home switches working with and2
well, at least i got z working, havent gotten to x yet
got the servo amp enable working good too
Is there a weblink to monitor the Haiti traffic?
oooops wrong channel
why, planning on going on a road trip from the bay area to haiti?
lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
No, the emergency radio traffic after the earthquake in Haiti
didnt realize there was an earthquake
i guess that's what happens when you only listen to internet radio and dont watch tv or have time to read the paper
I do neither, just ham radio
in fact the rest of the country could have blown up and i wouldnt even know
hmm well the wait doesnt seem too long at the dmv, i think i'm gunna go get my registration taken care of