#emc | Logs for 2010-01-10

[00:07:40] <frallzor> if i update the kernel will it brake emc2? :P
[00:08:55] <mozmck> naw, emc2 just won't run!
[00:09:14] <frallzor> bugger, never easy to fix stuff in linux
[00:09:31] <frallzor> shitload of f**kup just to get a simple touchscreen running =(
[00:19:58] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[00:51:37] <danimal_garage> hmm i'm having servo amp issues
[00:51:54] <danimal_garage> one may be dead
[00:54:05] <jthornton> that's not a good sign
[00:54:25] <danimal_garage> nope
[00:54:31] <danimal_garage> may be a wire though
[00:54:54] <danimal_garage> one servo is holding, the other one seems to be dead
[00:55:37] <danimal_garage> i checked the impedence across the wires going to the motors, and one is basically open, and the other is 0 ohms
[00:56:27] <jthornton> you might check the brushes
[00:56:29] <danimal_garage> but the weird part is the one that is open is the one that is working
[00:56:46] <jthornton> oh that may be a short then
[00:56:55] <danimal_garage> yea
[00:57:12] <danimal_garage> the old controller worked, and so did the servos
[00:57:26] <danimal_garage> so i doubt it's the brushes unless it went bad by sitting for a month
[00:57:31] <jthornton> gotta double check your work then LOL
[00:57:46] <danimal_garage> my work is fine
[00:58:09] <danimal_garage> i didnt touch the wiring going to the servos
[00:58:17] <jthornton> hmmm
[00:58:23] <danimal_garage> other than at the amps
[00:58:35] <danimal_garage> but that's just 2 wires, and it's right
[00:59:26] <jthornton> so your drive takes a velocity signal and an enable?
[00:59:40] <danimal_garage> i'm going to go disconnect the wires from the amp and check the resistance
[00:59:43] <danimal_garage> yes
[01:00:10] <danimal_garage> but the motors still hold if none of that is hooked up
[01:00:19] <danimal_garage> except for enable
[01:00:21] <jthornton> mine drift
[01:00:42] <danimal_garage> the z axis holds, the z axis is dead
[01:00:57] <danimal_garage> i'm gunna go check the wires now, brb
[01:01:08] <jthornton> ok
[01:02:31] <cradek> it will only hold if the tach is wired right
[01:03:12] <cradek> I bet it's the tach, power supply, or enable/inhibit wiring
[01:03:42] <cradek> bbl
[01:04:13] <jthornton> there is a drift pot on my drives that robh was telling me about that needs to be set
[01:04:46] <danimal_garage> power supply and inh are set right
[01:04:59] <danimal_garage> i'll double check the tach again
[01:06:08] <jthornton> * jthornton wanders out of the beer cave to check on the surf and turf
[01:07:16] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hopes jthornton's beer is 80F (bastard not sharing with us)
[01:10:07] <Jymmm> Well, not so much the sharing part, as much as taunting us with it!
[01:13:48] <GonMD_> GonMD_ is now known as GonMD
[01:17:48] <danimal_garage> hmm seems like the tach is wired right
[01:28:52] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:33:09] <cliff_> Hello all. Does anybody have sample hal files for use with a dual drive (X1,X2) servo setup, or know where I might look?
[01:40:26] <DaViruz> is there some package in the ubuntu release that will give me a working build enviroment?
[01:42:13] <DaViruz> seem to be missing libc headers at least
[01:42:18] <cliff_> "sudo apt-get install build-essential" will install compilers and most things you need.. for compiling emc check out the wiki there are a couple others needed as well.
[01:42:53] <DaViruz> actually i'm trying to compile a tourchscreen driver
[01:43:34] <DaViruz> build-essential looks like it's just what i need. thanks
[01:43:35] <danimal_garage> cradek: what's the input scale, or how can i figure it out?
[01:43:42] <cliff_> np
[01:46:31] <danimal_garage> nm, i think i can figure it out
[01:47:32] <danimal_garage> hmm well i guess i need to figure out the gearing
[01:50:16] <cliff_> danimal: the way I always did it is make sure your encoders are counting.. open halmeter and watch the encoder position.. move your machine say one inch by hand and you will get a rough idea of the input scale by the difference before and after the move..
[01:50:45] <danimal_garage> good call, i'll try it
[01:51:13] <danimal_garage> however i know it's extremely high
[01:51:31] <danimal_garage> 6 figures i think
[01:52:39] <danimal_garage> 4096 counts per rev of the resolver, and there's quite a bit of gear reduction involved
[02:07:20] <danimal_garage> hmmm looks like 10:1 reduction
[02:07:57] <danimal_garage> i set the count to 1, and made one full rev, and it came out to about 40960
[02:08:35] <danimal_garage> now i gotta figure out the pitch
[02:08:41] <danimal_garage> of the lead screw
[02:11:07] <danimal_garage> .2"
[02:11:39] <danimal_garage> 204800 counts per rev
[02:12:09] <danimal_garage> cradek: is that right?
[02:13:44] <danimal_garage> looks right to me
[02:14:13] <danimal_garage> i know i'm talking to myself but it helps me
[02:37:55] <cradek> yeah (by memory) I think 204800 is right
[02:42:21] <danimal_garage> yea, i tihnk it is, at least roughly checking by my callipers
[02:42:58] <danimal_garage> nothing's working except for the resolvers
[02:43:34] <danimal_garage> trying to figure out what's going on
[02:43:54] <danimal_garage> i quadruple checked my connections, it all seems ok
[02:51:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: you around?
[02:59:08] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/ballscrew.JPG
[02:59:36] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/start.JPG
[02:59:47] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/open.JPG
[02:59:56] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/stripped.JPG
[03:00:31] <Jymmm> skunkworks: where did oyu find the 14" tall midget?
[03:01:02] <skunkworks> looks odd - doesn't it?
[03:01:07] <skunkworks> that is my hand
[03:01:24] <Jymmm> oh youre a 14 tall freak, didn't know
[03:01:29] <Jymmm> 14"
[03:10:03] <skunkworks> hhe
[03:10:04] <skunkworks> heh
[03:21:06] <skunkworks> hmm - this one now works
[03:21:07] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/stripped.JPG
[03:21:15] <skunkworks> must not have uploaded right
[03:32:47] <danimal_garage> poop
[03:32:53] <danimal_garage> i think my amp is bad
[03:43:54] <danimal_garage> yup, swapped amps, and now the z axis doesnt work
[03:44:05] <danimal_garage> so it isnt my wiring
[03:44:18] <danimal_garage> crap
[03:44:29] <GonMD> ouch
[04:28:59] <danimal_garage> does anyone have a way to cross reference a transistor, other than google?
[04:34:48] <jackc> google is the way
[04:35:54] <danimal_garage> dammit i cant find what i need
[04:51:02] <GonMD> improve your google-fu
[04:52:12] <danimal_garage> the part has probably been discontinued long before the interwebs
[04:53:22] <danimal_garage> and dumbass me forgot to throw my sheets in the dryer, so now i gotta stay up for another 2 hours
[04:53:58] <GonMD> hate it when that happens. you should build a robot to do your laundry
[04:54:25] <GonMD> also it takes two hours do dry sheets? i think your doing it wrong.
[04:54:53] <danimal_garage> dryer cycle is 90 minutes
[04:55:17] <danimal_garage> i just unloaded some stuff so hopefully they'll dry faster
[04:56:29] <GonMD> i need to buy a V cutting bit
[04:56:51] <danimal_garage> i need to buy a servo drive
[04:57:29] <GonMD> wonder if walmart would carry a 60 degree V bit
[04:57:50] <GonMD> this is america, i want my cutting tool 5 minutes ago.
[04:58:29] <danimal_garage> grind one yourself
[04:59:51] <danimal_garage> surface grinder=priceless
[05:00:21] <GonMD> my brother works at a CNC shop and my dad at another
[05:00:41] <GonMD> i guess i just need a blank. and i could even go sharper then 60 degree
[05:03:52] <danimal_garage> time for dinner, adios
[05:13:26] <cradek> danimal_garage: is the big fuse ok?
[05:14:39] <cradek> do you know what happened? do you remember having something wired wrong for a while?
[05:14:51] <danimal_garage> yea, the fuses are good
[05:15:00] <cradek> (I have a schematic for those somewhere)
[05:15:11] <danimal_garage> not sure, i must have done something wrong
[05:15:30] <cradek> yeah, I was wondering if you had a guess at what it was
[05:15:41] <danimal_garage> only thing i can think of is maybe it was trying to move, but it wasnt able to
[05:15:41] <cradek> what's the symptom?
[05:15:58] <danimal_garage> and burned somethig out
[05:16:05] <danimal_garage> the amp does nothing
[05:16:09] <cradek> nah, they're current limited
[05:16:48] <cradek> how is the enable/inhibit line wired?
[05:16:54] <danimal_garage> i swapped all the wires from one amp to the other, and it definitely seems to be the amp
[05:17:25] <danimal_garage> just to ground for now
[05:17:45] <cradek> so all wiring, tach, enable, power supply all stayed the same but you swapped the amp itself?
[05:17:56] <danimal_garage> yup
[05:18:02] <cradek> ouch... darn.
[05:18:44] <danimal_garage> tell me about it
[05:18:45] <cradek> any obvious stuff like burn smell? burnt traces?
[05:18:49] <danimal_garage> nothing
[05:18:53] <cradek> broken solder joints?
[05:18:59] <danimal_garage> i even pulled off the heat sink
[05:19:04] <danimal_garage> not that i can see
[05:19:32] <danimal_garage> i'd have to pull the board so i can see the back to be sure
[05:20:42] <cradek> remind me and I'll look for my schematic tomorrow. maybe we can do some basic troubleshooting.
[05:23:40] <danimal_garage> appreciate it
[05:24:05] <danimal_garage> doesnt look like there's much to it
[05:25:10] <danimal_garage> i may pull the board and thow a meter on those big transistors
[05:26:03] <cradek> you mean just check for power there?
[05:27:24] <cradek> hey maybe skunkworks would sell you a skunkworks-special amp
[05:27:32] <danimal_garage> no, check between the base and collector
[05:27:54] <danimal_garage> see if it's open in both directions
[05:28:22] <danimal_garage> and the emitter
[05:30:40] <danimal_garage> what's a skunkworks special amp?
[05:30:55] <cradek> his homemade not-so-dumb H bridge
[05:31:09] <cradek> but you want your velocity mode if you can... forget it
[05:32:36] <danimal_garage> on the one axis that does move, it only goes atiny bit then gets a following error
[05:34:06] <danimal_garage> the one good thing about having a machine shop is there's no shortage of things that work as bottle openers
[05:34:08] <cradek> what tuning have you done?
[05:35:15] <danimal_garage> not much, still trying to learn what i'm doing
[05:35:27] <danimal_garage> i set the input and output scale
[05:35:46] <danimal_garage> and i started the "p" at 20
[05:35:55] <danimal_garage> i and d are at 0
[05:36:19] <cradek> you'll have to increase MIN_FERROR to get it to move very far when it's badly tuned
[05:36:29] <cradek> maybe even 0.1 or 0.5 inch
[05:36:34] <danimal_garage> ah ok
[05:36:45] <cradek> then get your halscope plots going, and start minimizing that following error
[05:36:50] <danimal_garage> yea it's like at .01
[05:37:35] <cradek> you can zero out the steady state following error (error at constant speed) by adjusting FF1. FF1 is your main tuning knob with velocity mode
[05:38:12] <danimal_garage> ok
[05:38:42] <danimal_garage> havent used halscope yet, get to learn something new
[05:38:56] <cradek> rapid speed is about 4ips, rapid velocity command is maybe 7v? so FF1 will probably be something like 4/7 = 0.6
[05:39:16] <cradek> assuming your scaling is in inches and volts
[05:39:46] <danimal_garage> you set the output scale to 8.0, correct?
[05:40:03] <cradek> ummmm
[05:40:08] <danimal_garage> since it's 8v?
[05:40:12] <cradek> lemme see if it's on
[05:40:15] <cradek> maxoutput is 8
[05:40:48] <danimal_garage> ok yea thats what i ment
[05:41:06] <cradek> MAX_VELOCITY = 3.33334
[05:41:07] <cradek> MAX_ACCELERATION = 20
[05:41:11] <cradek> INPUT_SCALE = 204800
[05:41:11] <cradek> OUTPUT_SCALE = -10
[05:41:20] <cradek> FERROR = .002
[05:41:20] <cradek> MIN_FERROR = .0015
[05:41:30] <cradek> MAX_OUTPUT = 8.5
[05:41:41] <danimal_garage> oh output scale i have at -1
[05:41:58] <danimal_garage> is the scale -10 because the gear ratio is 10:1?
[05:42:07] <danimal_garage> for the resolver and tach
[05:43:02] <cradek> no, that's because pwm command of 1.0 is full duty cycle on the pwm = 10v for the dac output
[05:43:30] <cradek> and they are inverted I guess, so -10
[05:43:44] <danimal_garage> oh ok
[05:44:12] <danimal_garage> well at least i got the input scale right!
[05:44:14] <cradek> I guess I have my rapids set at 200 ipm
[05:44:27] <danimal_garage> yea, same as the original control
[05:44:41] <cradek> ah I misremembered it as 250
[05:44:53] <cradek> such a short travel it doesn't matter one bit
[05:45:14] <danimal_garage> my brochure says 200
[05:45:18] <danimal_garage> exactly
[05:45:24] <danimal_garage> 200 is still too fast lol
[05:45:38] <cradek> if something's in the way it sure is
[05:46:11] <danimal_garage> yea
[05:46:33] <danimal_garage> however my mill seems to greep at 110
[05:46:38] <danimal_garage> creep*
[05:47:10] <cradek> my mill is 450 but I ran it briefly at 900 to see if it would work (it did)
[05:47:22] <danimal_garage> lucky
[05:47:24] <cradek> but that's way too fast - it seemed pretty violent
[05:47:40] <cradek> yeah it wastes no time getting into position
[05:47:41] <danimal_garage> yea, i would think the machine would start dancing
[05:47:48] <cradek> yep
[05:47:58] <danimal_garage> i'd kill for 300
[05:48:17] <danimal_garage> but 110 is pushing it with these steppers
[05:48:19] <cradek> maybe if I had a heavier floor I'd run it faster, but I don't like how I can feel the floor move
[05:48:32] <danimal_garage> even the bandit control topped out at 100
[05:48:51] <cradek> 100 is pretty typical and good for a stepper machine
[05:49:29] <danimal_garage> yea, sometimes i wonder myself... i have nearly 10 tons on my garage slab
[05:49:32] <GonMD> im not even comfortable pushing my machine that fast atm
[05:49:53] <GonMD> running slow doesnt matter right now, and id rather get comfortable with my machine first
[05:50:07] <danimal_garage> dont blame ya GonMD
[05:50:21] <renz0r> my thing rapids at 30ipm =(
[05:50:24] <danimal_garage> my mill starts stalling at 120
[05:50:48] <renz0r> itll go to 60 but it starts f'in up past 45
[05:51:01] <danimal_garage> mine used to do that too
[05:51:14] <danimal_garage> big time
[05:52:16] <GonMD> i usually rapid mine around 60. but thats about what im comfortable with right now
[05:52:17] <danimal_garage> ugh, i'm not looking forward to having to repair this drive
[05:52:45] <renz0r> so put gasoline on it and set it on fire buy new one
[05:53:26] <GonMD> go Office Space on it. a field, a baseball bat
[05:53:32] <danimal_garage> GonMD, at 60ipm, it would take 37 seconds to get across my machine
[05:53:53] <danimal_garage> in the x axis
[05:53:59] <GonMD> big machine. lucky
[05:54:28] <danimal_garage> not if you're in a hurry lol
[05:54:28] <eric_unterhausen> what drive is it?
[05:54:41] <danimal_garage> GE hi-ak pwm50e
[05:54:53] <eric_unterhausen> scarly
[05:55:05] <GonMD> being in a hurry with cnc machines isnt a good combo :p
[05:55:17] <eric_unterhausen> is that a fanuc?
[05:55:23] <danimal_garage> it is if you need to make a living with them
[05:55:36] <danimal_garage> eric, good question, i dopnt think so
[05:56:25] <danimal_garage> these are probably pre-fanuc
[05:56:34] <danimal_garage> 1978
[05:58:22] <eric_unterhausen> I have an old GE robot from about then
[05:58:44] <danimal_garage> neat
[05:58:51] <eric_unterhausen> the electronics didn't look too useful
[05:59:41] <GonMD> danimal_garage: what kind of work do you do with your machine?
[05:59:53] <danimal_garage> i make bicycle parts
[06:00:07] <GonMD> very cool.
[06:00:46] <danimal_garage> how about yourself?
[06:01:59] <GonMD> used to work with automatic swiss Cincom lathes for 4 years, then got laid off, then did a bit of contract work over the summer and bought a CNC router, and im hoping to get into the movie prop making scene
[06:02:14] <danimal_garage> cool
[06:02:16] <GonMD> also firearm engraving here locally. for SBR stuff mainly
[06:02:27] <danimal_garage> thought about trying to do robotics for that
[06:02:54] <danimal_garage> i need a good machine for engraving
[06:02:55] <eric_unterhausen> I'm filing the casting marks off of a steel bottom bracket shell
[06:03:09] <danimal_garage> eric_unterhausen: why?
[06:03:52] <eric_unterhausen> so I can build it into a frame without having any casting marks on it
[06:04:13] <danimal_garage> what kind of material?
[06:04:39] <eric_unterhausen> steel
[06:05:02] <danimal_garage> i'm suprised it's cast
[06:05:14] <eric_unterhausen> it's all investment cast nowadays
[06:05:16] <danimal_garage> well i gotta run to get some dinner.
[06:05:21] <eric_unterhausen> very little pressed steel left
[06:05:33] <danimal_garage> my buddy uses machined parts
[06:05:59] <eric_unterhausen> fillet or tig you can do that, I'm using lugs
[06:06:05] <danimal_garage> all his BB shells are turned on a lathe from tube stock
[06:06:15] <danimal_garage> ah ok
[06:06:40] <danimal_garage> show me some pics when it's done
[06:06:45] <eric_unterhausen> ok
[06:06:48] <danimal_garage> i love custom frames
[06:07:01] <eric_unterhausen> I just got some of the machined bbs, super light
[06:07:01] <danimal_garage> the more homegrown, the better
[06:07:43] <danimal_garage> yea, my friend's frames are less than 4lbs for a 29er mtb frame in steel
[06:08:07] <eric_unterhausen> nice
[06:08:21] <danimal_garage> yea, he builds some nice stuff
[06:08:41] <danimal_garage> he used to work for intense, so he learned all his stuff there
[06:09:08] <danimal_garage> he's building me a scandium frame with ti seat stays
[06:09:29] <eric_unterhausen> that sounds cool
[06:09:37] <eric_unterhausen> bonded, I assume?
[06:09:53] <danimal_garage> yea, it gives it a little compliance for rocly trails
[06:09:57] <danimal_garage> rocky*
[06:10:17] <danimal_garage> only bonded where the scandium and ti meet, obviously
[06:10:21] <eric_unterhausen> right
[06:10:55] <danimal_garage> i'm going to make a sliding lower yoke so i dont need chain tensioners or an ecentric bottom bracket
[06:11:02] <danimal_garage> it'll be a single speed
[06:11:31] <eric_unterhausen> I was just looking at sliding dropouts, cant afford them
[06:11:49] <danimal_garage> yea, they're not cheap
[06:12:09] <danimal_garage> anyways, i'm off to grab a burger, adios
[06:12:13] <eric_unterhausen> seeya
[07:34:31] <skinnypup_> cradek, iirc you have a laptop with p3 7xx proc that will run emc? What is it? Friend gave me a Dell lattitude C500 with a p3 750 that is taken all apart with a broken power jack today.
[10:39:52] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[11:16:15] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[12:05:17] <frallzor> how does one enable touchy when installed?
[12:10:15] <DaViruz> how do i enable the touchy interface in emc2-dev?
[12:10:20] <DaViruz> oh
[12:10:23] <DaViruz> frallzor beat me to it
[12:59:21] <jthornton> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//gui_touchy.html
[13:07:31] <frallzor> replaxing axis with touchy just crashed it so =P
[13:07:46] <frallzor> in the machine *.ini
[13:08:23] <frallzor> *replacing even
[13:14:03] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[13:17:47] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[13:42:53] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[14:21:09] <frallzor> odd odd
[14:22:32] <archivist_emc> * archivist_emc puts $3 on even to win
[14:23:46] <frallzor> archivist_emc you into touchy? having issues getting it up and running =)
[14:24:34] <frallzor> im thikning it should be as easy as replacing "axis" with "touchy" in the machine *.ini
[14:24:37] <archivist_emc> not tried it yet, although I do have a touch screen
[14:24:41] <jthornton> nope
[14:24:48] <jthornton> gotta read the manual
[14:24:51] <frallzor> with the right stuff installed
[14:24:59] <frallzor> touchy is there
[14:25:02] <frallzor> installed
[14:25:11] <frallzor> got some help doing that =)
[14:25:26] <frallzor> but applying it to a config is harder =(
[14:25:35] <jthornton> not hard at all
[14:25:41] <jthornton> even I did it
[14:25:59] <jthornton> [06:51]<jthornton>http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//gui_touchy.html
[14:26:35] <frallzor> still, isnt that just for making some buttons work?
[14:26:55] <jthornton> no, you have to follow the instructions for touchy to work
[14:27:18] <jthornton> touchy "requires" a few things to work
[14:27:41] <C_Bug> last touch screen on a machine I saw had a screwdriver through it.
[14:28:08] <jthornton> don't work there anymore I guess...
[14:28:18] <frallzor> Touchy requires you to write a file named "touchy.hal" to make these connections. Touchy executes the hal commands in this file after it has made its pins available for connection. is this what you mean?
[14:28:31] <jthornton> yep
[14:28:36] <skunkworks> heh - forgot to clean out the mouse nest.... http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/start.JPG
[14:28:59] <frallzor> how to do that then? cant say I've done that stuff before
[14:30:50] <jthornton> frallzor: I think if you have an empty file called touchy.hal it will work
[14:31:05] <frallzor> where should it be placed?
[14:32:06] <jthornton> in the same folder as the rest of your config files
[14:34:16] <jthornton> yea, I just have an empty file called touchy.hal
[14:34:52] <frallzor> done now lets see if it plays
[14:35:40] <frallzor> nope same issue
[14:36:01] <frallzor> placed in the machines config-folder
[14:36:32] <jthornton> is that the same folder as the ini file?
[14:36:42] <jthornton> are you running 2.4?
[14:36:45] <frallzor> yes
[14:37:20] <frallzor> the person that helped me got it running but not with a config and same issues with a proper config
[14:38:24] <jthornton> in the [EMC] section of your ini file you have MACHINE = EMC-TOUCHY
[14:38:57] <frallzor> no the my-mill machine
[14:39:13] <frallzor> should it be emc-touchy?
[14:39:14] <kanzure_> kanzure_ is now known as kanzure
[14:41:35] <frallzor> I'd thought it would be as easy to use a proper config and just change from axis to touchy
[14:41:38] <jthornton> it has to be MACHINE = EMC-TOUCHY
[14:42:24] <frallzor> should it work then?
[14:42:29] <jthornton> yep
[14:42:34] <frallzor> it doesnt =)
[14:43:12] <frallzor> display = what? still axis
[14:43:22] <frallzor> or something touchy related?
[14:44:46] <frallzor> nothing but axis works and then its still axis
[14:45:11] <archivist_emc> add touch to axis :)
[14:45:32] <frallzor> display = touch like that or?
[14:45:49] <archivist_emc> no I was joking
[14:46:08] <frallzor> the error is about the display anyway
[14:46:23] <cradek> what's the error?
[14:46:55] <frallzor> well I assumed it was called touchy so the error is it cant start it
[14:47:12] <frallzor> cant execute DISPLAY program touchy
[14:47:36] <cradek> it is called touchy
[14:47:52] <frallzor> then its odd
[14:47:55] <cradek> are you sure you're running the version you built?
[14:48:14] <frallzor> DaViruz helped me getting it going and got an instance of it working
[14:48:25] <frallzor> but not with a proper config
[14:48:28] <frallzor> some example
[14:48:41] <frallzor> so it should work
[14:49:53] <cradek> ok this isn't really giving us anything to go on. could you copy and paste everything you type, and everything you get in return while trying to run your devel version, to pastebin so we can see it?
[14:50:33] <DaViruz> frallzor: actually it might be my fault
[14:52:22] <frallzor> but you got it running so it should work? =)
[14:53:21] <DaViruz> do you have anything running on it now?
[14:53:57] <frallzor> nothing but some editors
[14:54:34] <DaViruz> select my-mill now and see if it works
[14:54:46] <frallzor> yes
[14:55:05] <DaViruz> nice
[14:55:18] <frallzor> one error still though, for some reason it cant open /home/cnc/emc2/nc_files
[14:55:40] <DaViruz> never mind that now
[14:55:41] <frallzor> it says so but the file in there is visible
[14:55:45] <DaViruz> the docs say:
[14:55:45] <DaViruz> $ . scripts/emc-environment
[14:55:46] <DaViruz> $ emc
[14:55:58] <DaViruz> but that doesn't work, you have to start it with ./scripts/emc
[14:56:08] <DaViruz> else it launches the old version
[14:56:17] <frallzor> if I close it now
[14:56:24] <frallzor> and want it going again
[14:56:26] <cradek> yes that does work
[14:56:37] <cradek> if not, something is wrong
[14:56:58] <DaViruz> to launch with a specific configuration it says
[14:56:59] <DaViruz> $ scripts/emc configs/sim/sim.ini
[14:57:26] <cradek> yes you can do it that way too - there are several ways to start it
[14:57:41] <frallzor> isnt there an easy way?
[14:57:44] <DaViruz> so the path should be set so you can launch it with just "emc"?
[14:57:51] <DaViruz> and it will start the one in the build directory?
[14:57:55] <DaViruz> assuming you have run emc-enviroment
[14:58:15] <cradek> well I'm off to do other stuff, hope you guys get it.
[14:58:42] <frallzor> so DaViruz there isnt an easy way to do i? =)
[14:58:53] <DaViruz> i'm looking
[14:59:14] <frallzor> make a "bat-file" and use as launcher?
[15:00:00] <jthornton> frallzor: I sorry but I'm a dumb ass this morning
[15:00:38] <jthornton> MACHINE is the name ...
[15:02:55] <jthornton> my launcher command is : /home/john/emc2-dev/scripts/emc /home/emc2/configs/touchy/touchy.ini
[15:03:26] <jthornton> frallzor: you can right click on the desktop and create a launcher
[15:03:47] <frallzor> aha
[15:03:55] <jthornton> brb
[15:10:22] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[15:15:32] <ries> frallzor: How is your build going?
[15:37:01] <frallzor> slow atm
[15:37:51] <jthornton> frallzor: did you get touchy working?
[15:39:20] <frallzor> DaViruz did a "hack" to get it going via the original menu
[15:39:34] <frallzor> so you start it like normal
[15:40:47] <frallzor> im just playing around now, loaded some coda via the menu but how to run it? =)
[15:42:57] <jt-plasma> you have a touch screen?
[15:43:10] <frallzor> yup
[15:43:18] <jt-plasma> cool
[15:44:38] <jt-plasma> you do that from the Auto tab I think
[15:44:51] <frallzor> thats where I am
[15:44:56] <frallzor> no option for run =)
[15:45:03] <jt-plasma> I'm up in the garage atm and don't have a touchy config on this computer
[15:45:22] <jt-plasma> is the estop reset and the machine on?
[15:45:42] <frallzor> well im just playing around with no machine now
[15:45:47] <jt-plasma> back to the manual LOL
[15:45:50] <frallzor> but the "machine" should be working
[15:45:58] <jt-plasma> you have to have a hard button for cycle start
[15:46:04] <frallzor> oh
[15:46:17] <frallzor> thats no fun
[15:46:22] <jt-plasma> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//gui_touchy.html#r1_1_1
[15:46:58] <frallzor> boh =(
[15:47:29] <frallzor> guess ill have to add those when making a nice controlpanel then
[15:47:57] <jt-plasma> or make a pyvcp one
[15:48:11] <jt-plasma> wow it is up to 35F in here all ready
[15:48:27] <jt-plasma> * jt-plasma wanders back to the beer cave
[15:48:32] <frallzor> but all in all touchy is pretty nice =)
[15:50:46] <jthornton> yes it is
[15:52:36] <frallzor> hope this computer lives longer than my old laptop
[15:52:41] <frallzor> died on me =P
[15:53:01] <frallzor> death by dust
[15:53:54] <frallzor> just need a nice little arm now with vesa 75 =)
[15:55:25] <jthornton> what is vesa 75?
[15:55:53] <frallzor> a standard for "attaching" monitors and such to stands, or what to call it
[15:56:26] <jthornton> ok, I didn't have a clue :)
[15:56:49] <tom3p> 75mm bolt square?
[15:57:00] <frallzor> seems correct
[16:21:53] <jt-plasma> yea, I just found 4 little rubber plugs on the back of this flat screen and they are about 75mm apart and have some threaded inserts under the plugs
[16:25:53] <frallzor> for mounting to stuffs like wallmounts and such =)
[16:56:49] <frallzor> something fun you can do with a touchscreen until the mill is done? :P
[17:07:39] <danimal_garage> a touch screen would be nice, but i know the coolant would disolve the screen lol
[17:08:16] <danimal_garage> frallzor: maybe invent interactive porn?
[17:09:01] <danimal_garage> cradek: are you on?
[17:09:37] <frallzor> danimal_garage good idea
[17:09:43] <frallzor> will keep me pretty busy
[17:12:55] <danimal_garage> i thought so
[17:25:49] <frallzor> refreshing the chassis to the computer I got could keep me busy too
[17:25:56] <frallzor> new coat of paint
[17:35:51] <danimal_garage> what are you waiting on?
[17:43:15] <frallzor> time to fix stuff =)
[17:43:27] <frallzor> the time I got is good enough for tinkering
[17:43:33] <frallzor> not serious work
[17:48:17] <danimal_garage> ah
[17:48:47] <danimal_garage> I'm waiting for a clue lol
[17:48:53] <frallzor> clue? =P
[17:49:11] <danimal_garage> a clue as to what i'm doing
[17:49:25] <frallzor> hmm I want a onscreen keyboard...
[17:49:29] <frallzor> or autologin
[17:49:41] <frallzor> autologin would be sufficent
[17:49:58] <danimal_garage> yea, typing passwords is for the birds
[17:50:07] <frallzor> how to make ubuntu autologin?
[17:50:09] <celeron55> i think you can set that up at the default login manager (in ubuntu)
[17:50:13] <danimal_garage> i dont exactly need a password for my mill or lathe lol
[17:50:15] <celeron55> you have to log off and set it there
[17:50:41] <celeron55> (i don't know an another way, there might of course be one)
[17:51:10] <celeron55> (and i don't use ubuntu... :P)
[17:51:19] <frallzor> assistive technologies perhaps
[17:53:21] <frallzor> lets see if its kicking
[17:54:31] <frallzor> boyah!
[17:54:32] <frallzor> it is
[17:54:38] <frallzor> bye bye keyboard
[17:58:19] <danimal_garage> lol
[17:58:23] <danimal_garage> nice
[17:58:34] <danimal_garage> how durrable are those touch screens?
[17:58:44] <frallzor> this one should be pretty durable
[17:58:53] <danimal_garage> i'd love one, but i'm afraid of my coolant eating it
[17:58:55] <frallzor> some reinforce version for heavy duty use
[17:58:59] <frallzor> *d
[18:00:00] <danimal_garage> i'm more worried about chemicals
[18:00:17] <danimal_garage> water solulable coolant eats everything
[18:04:07] <GonMD> what about one of those thin layer screen protectors?
[18:10:35] <frallzor> danielfalck a plastic cover will work
[18:11:01] <frallzor> danimal_garage =)
[18:11:23] <frallzor> a sheet if nice plastic that will stand up againgt the chemicals
[18:11:55] <GonMD> the only thing i could see being a problem, is coolant buildig up and running down
[18:12:00] <isssy> hi all
[18:12:11] <GonMD> so i suppose as long as you wipe it down
[18:12:11] <GonMD> hello
[18:12:43] <frallzor> make a windshield wiper :P
[18:12:56] <frallzor> just make sure you press fast enough to avoid it
[18:13:06] <GonMD> lol
[18:50:07] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[19:01:52] <danimal_garage> neato
[19:02:08] <frallzor> bored bored bored
[19:02:26] <GonMD> play some guitar
[19:02:38] <GonMD> or work on a car
[19:02:41] <frallzor> I cad for money, anyone interested? :P
[19:04:16] <cliff_> Anybody have a sample hal's for a dual drive gantry (X1,X2) using servos? I would like to see how to properly home and properly set the gantry skew.
[19:06:13] <isssy> well , i am just finishing theese test thanks to micges
[19:06:14] <frallzor> http://www.mic.com/ that nema 4 powerstation on that site, that mount for the computer
[19:06:25] <frallzor> anyone seen them somewhere to be bought?
[19:07:22] <isssy> for gaintry you have to update drom brach joint axes 3
[19:07:32] <isssy> and there is sample config
[19:08:02] <cliff_> perfect, thank you.
[19:08:37] <isssy> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commit;h=4de3d0514cca59dcedfc0881e4a0ecf16e4c91d8
[19:08:45] <isssy> enjoy
[19:13:25] <danimal_garage> ugh i think i'm going to have to replace my servo amps
[19:13:40] <GonMD> costly repair?
[19:14:29] <danimal_garage> i dont know
[19:20:07] <frallzor> just for fun then?
[19:20:24] <danimal_garage> well they're NFG
[19:31:12] <GonMD> has anyone built EMC on the latest version of Ubuntu?
[19:35:22] <danimal_garage> hmm well i found some amps
[19:38:11] <danimal_garage> i wish i knew the amperage of the servos i have
[19:43:05] <GonMD> probably over 9000
[19:45:01] <danimal_garage> 9000 amps huh lol
[19:45:22] <GonMD> yeah. i like to crank my machine all the way up to 11
[19:46:15] <danimal_garage> but... but... how can that be, the dial only goes to 10!
[19:46:24] <danimal_garage> you must be a rebel
[19:47:08] <GonMD> *insert Mr T babble about hacking the code*
[19:49:52] <GonMD> mainly im just bored of engraving MDF and aluminum. but its all i can do till i buy cut3d :/
[19:50:00] <GonMD> i wanna cut me some video game props
[19:50:46] <danimal_garage> i wanna cut me some cheese
[19:53:18] <danimal_garage> cradek: are you awake yet?
[20:02:24] <cradek> you didn't smoke the other one too did you?
[20:04:30] <cradek> oh right I was going to look for the schematic
[20:04:31] <cradek> brb
[20:07:58] <cradek> found it
[20:09:12] <danimal_garage> i think i did :(
[20:09:44] <danimal_garage> do you know how many amps these motors draw?
[20:09:47] <cradek> wtf? how?
[20:10:25] <danimal_garage> i slipped with the meter's probe :(
[20:10:33] <danimal_garage> saw some smoke
[20:10:40] <cradek> arrrgh
[20:11:18] <cradek> do you see a "catalog number"? starts with 3N2100
[20:12:16] <danimal_garage> sp107a1
[20:12:58] <danimal_garage> 3n2100sp107a1
[20:13:18] <cradek> ok cool
[20:13:32] <danimal_garage> same ones?
[20:13:46] <cradek> yes that matches my book
[20:14:13] <cradek> for that model it says peak 12.5A, 6A RMS, 90V
[20:14:30] <Jymmm> AWESOME http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj3_v7xCyJ0&NR=1
[20:15:18] <danimal_garage> ah, darn, i found a nice 2 axis baldor drive for cheap but it's 5A/10A
[20:15:40] <danimal_garage> 100v bus
[20:15:43] <cradek> what part smoked?
[20:16:22] <danimal_garage> not sure, it's a little dark around the resistor i was probing
[20:16:40] <cradek> what Rxxx number?
[20:16:50] <danimal_garage> no parts were charred
[20:16:55] <danimal_garage> hold on i'll check
[20:18:40] <danimal_garage> 143
[20:19:28] <danimal_garage> i think the probe contacted one leg of the resistor, and one leg of the next resistor as well
[20:19:51] <danimal_garage> 143 had 90v
[20:20:06] <cradek> R143,R147 are a divider from +90 to -15, used for undervoltage fault sensing
[20:20:22] <danimal_garage> yep seems right
[20:20:43] <cradek> if you smoked one, it's faulted thinking the +90 is undervoltage
[20:20:45] <danimal_garage> i was getting 12v on one side and 90v on the other
[20:20:53] <cradek> yep
[20:21:12] <cradek> now what is it?
[20:22:08] <danimal_garage> after that happened, i was only getting 16v between the 90v and bottom arm connectors in the middle of the board
[20:22:13] <danimal_garage> hold on, i'll check
[20:23:16] <danimal_garage> right about 7v
[20:23:54] <danimal_garage> both amps are only getting 7v
[20:24:17] <danimal_garage> (7v on the 90v side of the resistor)
[20:24:24] <danimal_garage> the other side is still 12v
[20:26:39] <danimal_garage> http://cgi.ebay.com/Baldor-Motion-Dual-Axis-DC-Servo-Drive-TSD-100-05-2-U_W0QQitemZ250558402956QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a5671d18c
[20:27:18] <Jymmm> Heh, they are 30 minutes away
[20:27:34] <danimal_garage> yea, close to where i got my shizuoka
[20:28:09] <cradek> R143 hooks right to +90. why isn't it +90 now?
[20:29:03] <danimal_garage> very good question
[20:29:19] <danimal_garage> i'm getting 98v at the amps
[20:29:36] <danimal_garage> but i'm loosing it somewhere
[20:29:46] <danimal_garage> i was trying to figure that out earlier
[20:31:00] <danimal_garage> that terminal in the middle of the board that has the 2 heavy gauge wires coming from it...90v and bottom leg..... i'm only getting 16v across those, when i used to get 98v
[20:32:08] <danimal_garage> if i check from the 90v terminal to the common terminal coming from the power supply, it says 90v. If i check from the bottom leg terminal to the positive lead from the power supply, it only says 16v
[20:32:10] <Jymmm>
[20:32:53] <danimal_garage> hey my buddy has a 408 area code
[20:33:17] <cradek> CAUTION the 0 volt terminal of the bias supply _MUST_ be connected to the 0 volt terminal of the 90 volt power supply. energizing the 90 volt power supply with this connection missing will result in damage to the servo.
[20:33:31] <danimal_garage> those resistors on top of the caps are getting warm
[20:33:51] <Jymmm> cradek: ouch
[20:35:20] <danimal_garage> i dont follow
[20:35:29] <danimal_garage> did i hook it up wrong?
[20:35:33] <cradek> I don't know
[20:35:45] <cradek> are the logic supply and servo supply grounded together? it says they need to be
[20:36:02] <danimal_garage> oh
[20:36:06] <danimal_garage> ouch
[20:36:09] <danimal_garage> nope
[20:36:21] <danimal_garage> not that i know of
[20:36:44] <cradek> my amps have a big sticker on them saying that thing I typed
[20:36:48] <Jymmm> I'd hope they fused that - sounds way too common of an issue
[20:36:54] <cradek> Jymmm: no kidding
[20:37:21] <Jymmm> I guess another reason to only test one axis at a time.
[20:37:28] <Jymmm> test/connect
[20:37:33] <danimal_garage> guess i cant read
[20:37:48] <danimal_garage> they are fused
[20:37:51] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: do you have all axis connected?
[20:38:09] <danimal_garage> fuses are out, but yes
[20:38:40] <danimal_garage> that'd explain why i had a bad fuse earlier
[20:38:41] <cradek> bbl, dinner
[20:38:44] <Jymmm> danimal_garage: to be on the safe side, *I* would disconnect all but one axis, and verify/test jsut the one
[20:38:48] <danimal_garage> adios, thanks
[20:39:21] <danimal_garage> yea, i'll do that
[20:39:47] <Jymmm> "fuses are out"??? you mean the fuses are blown?
[20:40:01] <danimal_garage> i removed them
[20:40:45] <Jymmm> ah, well disconnect the control too from the unused axis too - just to play it safe
[20:40:53] <Jymmm> axises
[20:40:57] <Jymmm> (plural)
[20:41:56] <danimal_garage> axii?
[20:42:04] <danimal_garage> will do
[20:45:37] <danimal_garage> hmm well one amp is working now that i did what cradek said
[20:55:14] <danimal_garage> cradek: one drive seems to work now. The one drive that was bad still appears to be bad.
[21:03:48] <cradek> yay!
[21:06:05] <cradek> 'troubleshooting: remove the armature fuse. WITH POWER OFF check each armature terminal's resistance to both the 90 volt bus and the 0 volt bus. In each case the obmeter should read a diode drop in one direction and high impedance with the meter reversed.'
[21:07:18] <danimal_garage> ok will do, hold on a sec
[21:11:54] <danimal_garage> ok, both amps show 0 ohms in one direction from the 0v bus, and open loop in the other direction
[21:12:46] <cradek> ok hook 'er back up to power, and put a scope on test point PL1-C
[21:12:50] <danimal_garage> but when i go from 90v bus to the terminal on the fuse block, it shows like 460k ohms in one direction and open loop in the other direction
[21:13:28] <danimal_garage> is that right?
[21:13:36] <cradek> hmm, I'd think it would be symmetrical
[21:13:43] <danimal_garage> yea
[21:13:53] <danimal_garage> both amps are showing the same thing
[21:14:15] <cradek> interesting
[21:14:25] <cradek> and the one is working fine both directions?
[21:14:45] <celeron55> does your meter have diode measuring functionality? (i guess it's usually the 'beep' mode)
[21:15:32] <danimal_garage> not sure if it's working in both directions, it kinda goes apeshit when i try pushing the button
[21:15:50] <danimal_garage> it moves, then goes back to where it was
[21:16:14] <danimal_garage> so i guess it does move in both directions
[21:16:49] <cradek> should we work on getting that one working right, or go on with the troubleshooting steps?
[21:17:41] <danimal_garage> well i was thinking if i couldnt get the other amp working, i'd just replace them both with a matched set of something else
[21:17:56] <danimal_garage> so i thought it made more sense to get the amp working first
[21:18:09] <danimal_garage> does that make sense?
[21:18:20] <danimal_garage> celeron55: i think it does have a diode mode
[21:19:26] <celeron55> danimal_garage: try measuring the 0/460k ohm directions with it
[21:20:24] <celeron55> though i doubt the result matters at all
[21:21:10] <danimal_garage> well the beep mode does nothing in either direction
[21:21:12] <cradek> if you unhook the velocity command from the working axis, and jumper it to ground, you should be able to drive the motor around by turning the balance pot P1 / RA1
[21:21:13] <celeron55> it should read the voltage drop on the display
[21:21:22] <danimal_garage> the diode mode shows like .300V
[21:21:32] <celeron55> to both directions?
[21:21:46] <celeron55> umm... i mean both buses
[21:21:46] <danimal_garage> just one direction
[21:22:23] <danimal_garage> ok i'll try it cradek
[21:22:28] <celeron55> if it does show like 0.300V for both buses, then it's good
[21:23:19] <cradek> danimal_garage: just to check: for the diode tests you did 8 measurements, two for each diode, and 4 ways shows 0.300 and the other 4 ways showed open?
[21:23:20] <celeron55> if it doesn't... well, then it's not what the troubleshooting step said
[21:24:05] <cradek> ^^ per amp
[21:32:44] <danimal_garage> ok it shows:
[21:33:10] <danimal_garage> post-ov=.495v
[21:33:24] <danimal_garage> 0v-post=.511v
[21:33:44] <danimal_garage> post-90v=OL
[21:33:59] <danimal_garage> 90v-post=000.000
[21:34:28] <danimal_garage> fuse block terminal-0v=OL
[21:34:51] <danimal_garage> 0v-fuse block terminal=.415v
[21:35:21] <danimal_garage> fuse block terminal-90v= .360v
[21:35:37] <danimal_garage> 90v-fuse block terminal= OL
[21:36:13] <cradek> are screws in the middle (TB2-A,B) fuse block or post?
[21:37:58] <danimal_garage> post
[21:38:21] <cradek> ok the fuse block terminal is the one that goes to the heat sink then?
[21:38:27] <danimal_garage> yep
[21:38:49] <cradek> ok the two post (TB2) diodes seem wrong
[21:38:58] <cradek> those are D44, D45
[21:40:39] <danimal_garage> i'll see if i can track them down
[21:41:16] <cradek> between TB2-A,B and those diodes is the current sense resistor made up of R102, 101, 100, 99, 98, 97 all in parallel
[21:41:56] <cradek> I wonder if that's messing up your meter
[21:42:51] <cradek> can you find test point PL3-D?
[21:43:16] <cradek> that is right between the two diodes
[21:43:36] <cradek> you could make the four tests from that point instead of TB2-A,B
[21:46:38] <danimal_garage> i'm having trouble finding the diodes
[21:46:45] <danimal_garage> still looking
[21:47:02] <cradek> they are the big ones on the heat sinks
[21:47:03] <danimal_garage> the numbers are under the diodes, so i gotta carefully move them to see
[21:47:13] <danimal_garage> ohh
[21:47:17] <cradek> the huge ones
[21:48:30] <cradek> 44,45 are the bottom two if you're looking at the board with the logic screws to the right
[21:49:02] <danimal_garage> ok that helps, i found them
[21:49:24] <danimal_garage> they arent numbered from what i can tell
[21:49:31] <cradek> ah
[21:49:49] <cradek> I'm cheating :-)
[21:49:54] <danimal_garage> lol
[21:50:17] <danimal_garage> let me see if i can find that test point
[21:50:43] <cradek> at the bottom, right next to the heat sink, a 4 position thingy
[21:52:50] <danimal_garage> yea, i think i got it, it's the only one not labeled
[21:53:24] <danimal_garage> so what do i check from there?
[21:54:55] <danimal_garage> the 4 diodes?
[21:55:58] <cradek> that's between the two diodes we're questioning
[21:56:18] <cradek> so do the 4 tests, to 0v and to 90v, each way
[21:58:19] <danimal_garage> ok doing it now
[22:03:07] <cradek> when I do mine, I get 3k ohm one way and about 20k ohm the other way
[22:03:20] <cradek> (which seems weird)
[22:04:16] <cradek> all four test the same (I took off the heat sink to test them directly)
[22:04:16] <danimal_garage> i got -.469v from d-0v, and OL when reversed
[22:04:42] <cradek> good
[22:04:43] <danimal_garage> and i got 0000 from 90v-d, and .489v when reversed
[22:05:02] <cradek> 0 seems pretty wrong
[22:05:10] <danimal_garage> not sure the difference between 000 and ol
[22:05:24] <cradek> 0 means shorted
[22:05:31] <cradek> OL means open
[22:06:07] <cradek> so from 90 to PL3-D is D44, the lower right one
[22:06:21] <danimal_garage> btw, i checked d to the diodes, and the bottom one on the right was zero ohms in both directions. the rest were only shorted in one direction, and OL in the other
[22:06:51] <danimal_garage> time for a diode?
[22:06:54] <cradek> the bottom right one sure seems wrong
[22:07:01] <cradek> maybe pull it out and test it once more out of circuit
[22:07:27] <cradek> if it's shorted, I wonder what else it took out
[22:07:38] <danimal_garage> yea thats what i was wondering too
[22:08:06] <cradek> the things that look most susceptible are Q25, 26, 27; R103, 104, 105, 106
[22:08:39] <danimal_garage> what are q's?
[22:08:52] <cradek> the big ones
[22:09:05] <cradek> oh wait I gave you the wrong numbers
[22:09:17] <cradek> Q28, 29, 30; R107, 108, 109, 110
[22:10:31] <danimal_garage> q's are big resistors?
[22:10:38] <cradek> no - transistors
[22:10:47] <danimal_garage> ah ok
[22:10:55] <cradek> Q29,30 are the pair on the lower left heatsink
[22:11:02] <cradek> still looking for Q28...
[22:11:14] <danimal_garage> yea, i was looking for those online last night
[22:11:28] <danimal_garage> couldnt find any info on them
[22:12:18] <danimal_garage> none of the resistors look charred at all
[22:12:38] <cradek> maybe you would get lucky and it's just that diode
[22:12:46] <danimal_garage> yea
[22:13:12] <cradek> parts list says only "20A diode"
[22:13:22] <danimal_garage> i can run to the store and grab one today
[22:13:44] <cradek> I think they say 16F20 on them
[22:13:55] <danimal_garage> yea sounds right
[22:13:59] <cradek> did you pull it out and test it?
[22:14:06] <danimal_garage> going to right now
[22:15:33] <cradek> the internet says 16F20 is 200V 16A std recovery
[22:18:31] <danimal_garage> hmmm
[22:18:42] <danimal_garage> .432 in one direction, and ol in the other
[22:18:48] <danimal_garage> seems to be good, huh
[22:18:57] <cradek> huh!
[22:19:02] <danimal_garage> the wire going to it is shorted
[22:19:11] <danimal_garage> in both directions
[22:19:15] <cradek> that's the lower right one?
[22:19:18] <cradek> haha
[22:19:19] <danimal_garage> yep
[22:19:44] <danimal_garage> bad trans perhaps?
[22:20:44] <cradek> yeah try PL3-B to +90, meter both ways
[22:21:06] <danimal_garage> with the diode in or out?
[22:21:48] <Jymmm> mag wire is insulated, isn't it?
[22:22:08] <cradek> leave the diode out
[22:23:11] <danimal_garage> o.ooo one way, and -ol the other
[22:23:51] <cradek> that's C-E of Q26 (NPN)
[22:25:02] <cradek> the one just like it is Q29 - let's do the same test - it is from PL3-D to PL2-B
[22:25:03] <danimal_garage> it's bad then, right?
[22:25:29] <danimal_garage> ok
[22:26:52] <danimal_garage> .486, -.467
[22:27:26] <danimal_garage> but wouldnt it be different since that one diode is out?
[22:29:04] <danimal_garage> c-e is supposed to be OL in both directions, right?
[22:29:08] <cradek> yes good point
[22:29:36] <cradek> I think so ...?
[22:30:04] <danimal_garage> http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/test-methods/meters/multimeter-diode-transistor-test.php
[22:30:22] <cradek> I can't find my digital meter!
[22:31:43] <archivist_emc> c-e is different if the base has a low R
[22:31:59] <archivist_emc> depends on circuit
[22:32:06] <danimal_garage> i've only been testing the dead drive, btw
[22:32:15] <danimal_garage> oh ok thanks archivist
[22:32:43] <Jymmm> I'd compare the dead one to a known good one
[22:33:02] <danimal_garage> btw archivist , found some braking resistors http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/?action=view&current=DSCN0746.jpg
[22:33:05] <Jymmm> unpoweeered
[22:33:10] <danimal_garage> yea, gunna do that now Jymmm
[22:33:21] <cradek> Q26 C-E is PL2G - PL3B
[22:33:36] <cradek> Q29 C-E is PL3D - PL2B
[22:33:42] <Jymmm> wouldn't hurt to have them both disconnected from everything too
[22:33:53] <cradek> these pairs read the same for me, 3k one way, 18k the other way
[22:34:15] <danimal_garage> ok i'm checking now
[22:34:19] <archivist_emc> is the circuit online ?
[22:34:24] <cradek> hell no
[22:34:31] <cradek> I'm using an ohmmeter
[22:34:54] <archivist_emc> I meant schematic
[22:35:01] <cradek> oh, no unfortunately
[22:35:31] <cradek> I have it on a clay tablet, er, dead tree here
[22:35:58] <cradek> oh hey I was thinking I needed a scanner - I can photograph this page
[22:36:05] <cradek> let me see if I can do it
[22:36:26] <archivist_emc> I use a camera too for quick and dirty
[22:37:42] <cradek> amazing - it does seem readable on my phone
[22:38:47] <danimal_garage> 0l in one direction, 0 ohms in the other for both PL2G - PL3B and PL3D - PL2B
[22:39:48] <cradek> ok our meters sure read differently
[22:40:30] <archivist_emc> they often do because the ohm driving voltage and current
[22:40:57] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/ge-pwm50-powercircuit.jpg
[22:41:02] <cradek> sorry it's a jpg - all my stupid phone can do
[22:41:40] <archivist_emc> * archivist_emc remove head and rotates 90 deg
[22:41:51] <cradek> that's a phone feature too, grr
[22:42:08] <archivist_emc> my camera does that :(
[22:42:32] <cradek> danimal_garage: seems like the transistor is ok too then - wtf
[22:42:51] <cradek> fwiw I don't think we have Q25,28
[22:43:07] <cradek> they might be for the PWM99 version?
[22:43:34] <cradek> ah yes the "N0TE" says that
[22:44:43] <danimal_garage> hmm
[22:45:22] <danimal_garage> so that wire shouldnt be shorted in either direction, right?
[22:45:35] <cradek> ?
[22:45:38] <cradek> what wire?
[22:45:42] <danimal_garage> the one that goes to the diode
[22:45:50] <danimal_garage> to d on p3
[22:45:51] <cradek> wires should show 0 ohms either way
[22:46:00] <danimal_garage> ok
[22:46:12] <danimal_garage> lol not what i ment
[22:46:22] <danimal_garage> i ment from the d terminal
[22:46:41] <danimal_garage> on pl3
[22:47:18] <archivist_emc> to where
[22:47:21] <cradek> PL3-D is between D44,D45
[22:47:40] <cradek> I'm lost, say again what you mean
[22:48:02] <danimal_garage> eh nm its the same on both amps
[22:48:12] <cradek> heh
[22:48:20] <danimal_garage> hmm
[22:48:22] <cradek> is anything different between them?
[22:48:35] <cradek> if not, we can assume it's ok and go on to the logic troubleshooting
[22:48:53] <danimal_garage> lemme go check some more
[22:48:53] <cradek> obviously I don't understand how this circuit should test with it all assembled
[22:49:01] <cradek> ok
[22:49:13] <cradek> (we're assuming the other one works right - not sure we know that for sure)
[22:51:43] <danimal_garage> very true
[22:54:46] <danimal_garage> 'it all seems the same
[22:55:50] <cradek> ok, guess that was a big waste of time...
[22:55:56] <danimal_garage> haha
[22:56:00] <cradek> did you put the diode back in?
[22:56:11] <danimal_garage> heating up my soldering iron now
[22:57:23] <danimal_garage> should i try using that pot to move the servo next?
[22:58:32] <cradek> oh to see if the working one is working?
[22:58:59] <cradek> if you want to be sure of that - otherwise we can start looking for the source of deadness on the dead one
[23:02:37] <danimal_garage> yea let me do that real quick, just to make sure
[23:02:46] <danimal_garage> it'll only take a minutes
[23:02:48] <danimal_garage> -s
[23:08:09] <danimal_garage> it moves in both directions
[23:08:13] <danimal_garage> but very slowly
[23:08:23] <danimal_garage> maybe .5ipm
[23:09:17] <cradek> but smooth and sounds right?
[23:09:38] <cradek> it is working right if it's smooth and controlled velocity
[23:09:49] <danimal_garage> yea it's smooth
[23:09:56] <cradek> you could try a 1.5v battery to go a little faster if you want
[23:10:11] <cradek> just put the balance pot back where it's about stopped
[23:10:21] <danimal_garage> yea i put it back where it was
[23:10:26] <skunkworks> well - I think we are going to use the drive train that is there to drive the z axis. It has about .00025 of backlash.. And we think we can get it out - (there is a washer that you grind down to take the backlash out of a bunch of split gears.)
[23:10:51] <cradek> skunkworks: neat - are you finally starting on it?
[23:11:08] <danimal_garage> skunkworks: cool
[23:11:10] <skunkworks> (if we can get the nut off - it is in the depths of the machine)
[23:11:17] <cradek> danimal_garage: ok let's go on looking for the source of deadness
[23:11:19] <andypugh> You are worried about 0.00025" backlash?
[23:11:21] <cradek> is it all hooked up?
[23:11:42] <danimal_garage> well should i put the heat sink back on?
[23:12:03] <cradek> good question
[23:12:16] <cradek> are all the wires hooked up without it?
[23:12:33] <skunkworks> cradek: yes. I hope so.. ;)
[23:12:54] <cradek> yay
[23:14:29] <danimal_garage> only the one wire that goes to the heat sink is off, but i can screw it on to the sinks below it
[23:14:42] <cradek> yeah just do that so you can get to everything
[23:14:52] <cradek> not like it's going to get warm :-/
[23:15:31] <skunkworks> the z axis goes through a 'ball spline shaft' > right angle spir gears > 3 sets of split helical gears.
[23:16:29] <skunkworks> cradek: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/
[23:17:13] <skunkworks> the 3 shafts are x ball screw - z drive train and b axis. all comes down to that spot.
[23:17:27] <cradek> wild
[23:17:40] <andypugh> That's a lovely bit of kit
[23:17:55] <archivist_emc> shiny
[23:18:03] <archivist_emc> inside :)
[23:18:08] <cradek> yeah it sure is in good shape
[23:18:23] <dan1mal> ok fired up the laptop so i dont have to walk as far
[23:19:02] <dan1mal> cradek: 90v bus on or off?
[23:19:15] <cradek> everything on
[23:19:38] <cradek> /inhibit tied to gnd so it should enable
[23:19:51] <andypugh> That must have cost a _fortune_ when it was new.
[23:19:51] <dan1mal> yep
[23:20:00] <cradek> check your +90 +12 -12 for the heck of it
[23:22:09] <dan1mal> good
[23:22:19] <cradek> check for voltage at PL4-B
[23:22:23] <dan1mal> i can hear the one working servo
[23:22:52] <cradek> is the working one safe to drift for a while? (you could inhibit it by taking off that jumper)
[23:23:39] <Jymmm> Oh noes... The drive of DOOM!!!! Eeeeeeek
[23:23:48] <dan1mal> 89v
[23:23:59] <dan1mal> 98v*
[23:24:05] <cradek> at PL4-B?
[23:24:09] <dan1mal> yea its fine
[23:24:12] <dan1mal> yes
[23:24:22] <cradek> no that should be logic level...
[23:24:26] <cradek> what ground are you using?
[23:24:56] <dan1mal> opps
[23:25:16] <dan1mal> ok 12v on the good drive, nothing on the non working one
[23:25:49] <cradek> how about PL4-A
[23:25:58] <andypugh> Sounds like it is broken to me. :-)
[23:26:01] <cradek> haha
[23:26:39] <dan1mal> nothing
[23:26:44] <dan1mal> 12v on the good drive
[23:26:58] <cradek> ok PL1-B?
[23:27:44] <dan1mal> nothing on either drive
[23:28:00] <cradek> ok PL1-B=0 means it's not in overcurrent trip
[23:28:01] <andypugh> I spent most of yesterday evening trying to figure out my PWM-voltage convertor block. Eventually I realised that the main relay was open (as might be expected when the controller is open on the bench) so there was 5v but not 12v or 24v....
[23:28:07] <cradek> how about PL1-A
[23:28:29] <cradek> andypugh: arg! we've all done that kind of thing.
[23:29:12] <dan1mal> 12v on the bad, 0 on the good
[23:29:37] <cradek> ok that means it's in 90v overvoltage trip
[23:30:14] <andypugh> I am disturbed that cradek knows this much detail about a drive.
[23:30:52] <dan1mal> hmmmm
[23:30:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: No, you're just disturbed, period.
[23:31:01] <cradek> to clear the 90v overvoltage trip, remove then reapply input power (that's not gonna cut it, is it)
[23:31:09] <dan1mal> nope
[23:31:14] <dan1mal> i can try it again
[23:31:22] <dan1mal> but it's been on and off several times
[23:31:27] <cradek> right
[23:31:34] <cradek> that's just in the instructions for how to test it
[23:31:35] <Jymmm> remove power wiat 30s?
[23:31:49] <Jymmm> for the caps to discharge
[23:32:28] <andypugh> That phrase always sounds odd to my ears. We would say "you are just disturbed, full stop". Mentioning periods brings to mind something completely else.
[23:32:38] <cradek> you say your 90v bus is 98?
[23:32:47] <cradek> it shouldn't overvoltage trip until 130
[23:32:54] <cradek> er 135
[23:34:21] <dan1mal> she's right around 98v
[23:35:37] <cradek> have a scope handy?
[23:35:43] <dan1mal> LOL
[23:35:53] <dan1mal> mouthwash?
[23:36:00] <cradek> oscilloscope
[23:36:05] <cradek> o-silly-scope
[23:36:11] <dan1mal> i wish
[23:36:17] <cradek> darn
[23:36:34] <andypugh> I found that only one channel on my scope works. That's going to make adjusting my encoder tricky.
[23:36:36] <Jymmm> dan1mal: run to the store and buy one
[23:36:36] <cradek> ok use your meter, probably have to set it for AC, test for voltage at PL1C to ground
[23:37:27] <andypugh> Anybody know if the 25MHz Owon scopes are any good?
[23:37:40] <dan1mal> 4.98v
[23:37:40] <cradek> no 25MHz scope is any good
[23:37:48] <Jymmm> andypugh: SWPadnos says no way
[23:38:03] <cradek> ok that's supposed to be the triangle wave, at least we know something is there
[23:38:09] <cradek> hard to guess if it's right
[23:38:11] <andypugh> Are they £180 better than no scope at all?
[23:38:26] <Jymmm> mind you , he's a premadonna too, but I BARELY got him to say "ok" to a tektronics
[23:38:41] <cradek> what voltage at PL1-E? (back on DC)
[23:38:53] <Jymmm> andypugh: no.
[23:39:20] <dan1mal> -1.7v
[23:39:21] <andypugh> I quite like the fact they are thin and won't eat a whole cupboard.
[23:39:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: 100MHz and the VERY VERY minimum if you ever work on digital circuits
[23:39:45] <skinnYPuP> cradek, iirc you had a laptop running emc? Someone gave me a latitued c500 with pIII750 all in pieces
[23:39:45] <cradek> -1.7 compared to the 0v signal ground??
[23:39:52] <dan1mal> yep
[23:40:02] <cradek> ok that's bogus
[23:40:05] <cradek> what about PL1-F
[23:40:27] <andypugh> All I want to look at is step signals and encoder outputs.
[23:40:31] <dan1mal> well now it says 0
[23:40:34] <cradek> skinnYPuP: yeah it's an old gateway thing I use at cnc workshop sometimes
[23:40:43] <cradek> dan1mal: I believe 0 a lot more than -1.7
[23:41:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: and you never want to use it again? Never want to play with microcontrollers?
[23:41:13] <dan1mal> 100v
[23:41:25] <cradek> ok PL1F is 100v but PL1E is 0v?
[23:41:26] <skinnYPuP> cradek, cool , may spend a lil time to try this one out then.
[23:41:59] <andypugh> I certainly hope never to play with microcontrollers :-)]
[23:42:11] <dan1mal> yes
[23:42:19] <cradek> one sec, calculating some stuff
[23:42:41] <dan1mal> sorry its 3v now
[23:43:06] <dan1mal> my meter is really slow
[23:43:15] <cradek> PL1E is 3v?
[23:43:20] <Jymmm> dan1mal: analog?
[23:44:04] <dan1mal> pl1e is 3v and f is 100
[23:44:15] <dan1mal> Jymmm: no
[23:44:29] <dan1mal> pl1e on the good drive is about 7v
[23:44:37] <dan1mal> f is 100
[23:44:41] <cradek> ok seems like pl1e should be 5.3v if my math is right
[23:45:46] <dan1mal> 3.2v
[23:46:00] <dan1mal> good drive is 7.5v
[23:46:06] <cradek> ok
[23:46:30] <cradek> do you see BD7?
[23:46:43] <dan1mal> i'll look
[23:47:00] <dan1mal> what is it?
[23:47:20] <cradek> a zener diode
[23:47:25] <cradek> it's 4 parts above PL4F
[23:48:34] <cradek> starting at PL4 going left: big cap, big resistor, weird looking zener BD7
[23:48:37] <dan1mal> i think i see it
[23:48:57] <dan1mal> pretty sure i got it
[23:49:15] <cradek> test for DC right across that - red lead to the end with the stripe
[23:49:22] <dan1mal> cant see the number without removing it
[23:49:37] <dan1mal> ok
[23:50:23] <dan1mal> .8v
[23:50:41] <cradek> check on the good one too
[23:50:51] <dan1mal> the working one is 6.7v
[23:50:54] <andypugh> Hmm, 500MHz HP digitising scope currently at £6.05. Only drawback is that it doesn't work. And that it is vast.
[23:51:06] <cradek> ok perfect, I expected 6.7
[23:51:41] <cradek> this biases the transistor that tells it when it's overvoltage
[23:51:49] <dan1mal> ah ok
[23:52:41] <cradek> see if R139 looks burnt
[23:52:56] <Jymmm> cradek: shouldn't he check before both zeners too?
[23:52:56] <cradek> it's the big one right below BD7
[23:53:14] <archivist_emc> andypugh, a wavetek for £31 in somerset poor description though
[23:53:20] <cradek> sorry, what do you mean before?
[23:53:56] <cradek> let's turn it off and let the +90 bleed down, then check the resistance of R139
[23:53:58] <Jymmm> cradek: my bad, nm I thought you had him check across it.
[23:54:19] <dan1mal> doesnt apear burnt
[23:54:27] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is only half paying attention
[23:54:31] <dan1mal> i did check across it
[23:55:00] <andypugh> That wavetek is only 20Mhz though.
[23:55:05] <cradek> what did you check?
[23:55:35] <dan1mal> across the legs of the diode
[23:56:10] <dan1mal> positive probe on the cathode
[23:56:17] <dan1mal> negative on the anode
[23:56:22] <andypugh> Though my current 1-broken-channel, doesn't focus Gould is 15Mhz so it would be ab upgrade
[23:57:44] <cradek> oh right, I caught up now
[23:57:52] <cradek> I did mean for you to test across it - 6.7 is right
[23:57:58] <archivist_emc> andypugh, I got a freebee gould, donator may have another
[23:58:05] <cradek> did you let the 90v bleed down?
[23:58:36] <andypugh> I can probably do what I need to do with Halscope, if I run the base thread rather faster than normal.
[23:58:53] <archivist_emc> andypugh, model number of yours?
[23:59:22] <dan1mal> yea it's bled down
[23:59:24] <andypugh> OS255
[23:59:25] <dan1mal> checking now
[23:59:53] <andypugh> (The OS could well stand for Out of Skip, because that is where I found it.