#emc | Logs for 2009-12-28

[00:00:25] <motioncontrol> good mornig at all.excuse a questins about m fuction (m100-m199). because when emc read the line m fuction retur on halui.program-line = 0 ? this is no correct is possible adjast it ?
[00:10:53] <ries> frallzor: yeaaa I know.. I let my wife handle the financials :)
[00:14:14] <frallzor> i need to spend the sum of at least 2x spindles for the rest of the build
[00:15:20] <frallzor> no fun
[00:23:43] <eric_unterhausen> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270505700112&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
[00:23:52] <eric_unterhausen> anyone believe that has a 100 gallon capacity?
[00:27:09] <frallzor> * frallzor is feeling depressed
[00:35:08] <lumberjack_jeff> Hi, I'm having trouble with intermittent latency
[00:35:55] <lumberjack_jeff> anyone available?
[00:37:35] <cradek> danimal_garage: I think I run mine up to 75 Hz or so. Beware the motor has a fan on its shaft. I think air movement/drag/cooling goes with the CUBE of the rpm, so slower than 60Hz you have no cooling, and faster than 60Hz you lose motor power fast
[00:40:20] <frallzor> how to tell how fast it needs to be going?
[00:40:42] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[00:40:43] <frallzor> asking for my own spindle, max Hz = 400, base = 300 but how low can it go? =)
[00:41:26] <cradek> lumberjack_jeff: what are your numbers?
[01:37:47] <Jymmm> * Jymmm just got done making candied nuts - now have to wait for them to cool
[01:38:21] <Jymmm> Walnuts, Almonds, Cashews and Pecans
[01:39:21] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[01:43:07] <danimal_garage> cradek: thanks, i wasnt planning on running it a ton faster, 75hz might do the trick. Do you have the vari speed drive set as fast as it goes, or do you have it cranked down a little?
[01:44:15] <danimal_garage> I'm going to start the build tonight.. too dark out to do any more yard work
[01:45:03] <danimal_garage> luckly this lathe is light enough to slide it around by hand so i can get behind it :) wish i could do that with my shizuoka.
[01:48:22] <tom3p> the docs on the 'not' comp has 2 func's listed: "not.N" and "not.all", the other comps dont have a "blah.all" listed. Do the "and2" "mux2" etc have this ".all" func?
[01:48:27] <danimal_garage> this thing is going to be much more difficult than my mill
[01:49:55] <danimal_garage> except for the fact that i know alot more now than i did when i built my mill
[01:57:22] <tom3p> wow, the "not.N" and "not.all" functions are listed in the dev manual and not in the source code, more invisible features.
[02:11:04] <cradek> danimal_garage: I have it set somewhere in the middle, I think
[02:13:30] <danimal_garage> cool, that's about what i was thinking
[02:13:50] <danimal_garage> between half and 3/4
[02:15:11] <cradek> so ... a 2" diameter hole goes from -2 to +2, right?
[02:15:37] <danimal_garage> ?
[02:15:46] <cradek> what a rookie error
[02:15:58] <danimal_garage> wouldnt that be a 4" hole?
[02:16:01] <cradek> [cut cut cut] gee, that looks like an awfully big 2" hole
[02:16:19] <cradek> sure is nice though
[02:16:27] <danimal_garage> ouch, hopefully it wasnt an expensive mistake
[02:16:30] <cradek> probed at a nice 4.001"
[02:16:38] <danimal_garage> not bad
[02:17:02] <tom3p> its like your other left, its your other diameter (radius)
[02:17:18] <cradek> 1/2" tooling plate so it could have been better, but not life or death
[02:17:23] <cradek> * cradek sighs
[02:17:35] <danimal_garage> ground?
[02:17:36] <tom3p> plug it
[02:17:51] <cradek> first op - I'll just start again - no big deal
[02:17:59] <cradek> I have plenty of material
[02:18:16] <danimal_garage> i just had a bunch of .75x10x10 plates blanchard ground for tooling plates
[02:18:30] <cradek> that's no $1/lb I bet
[02:18:53] <danimal_garage> came out nice, i had a buddy grind them so they came out great
[02:19:15] <danimal_garage> no, i got a bit of $ into them
[02:19:22] <cradek> .75 sounds thick for that
[02:20:18] <danimal_garage> i have a 1.5" thick plate of k100 for a sub plate, and i have .75" recievers in it, with .75" bullet nose locating pins
[02:20:41] <danimal_garage> and i have 3/4" diameter rest buttons in it
[02:21:03] <danimal_garage> set up so i can have 3 10x10 plates on it at a time
[02:21:11] <tom3p> what locks the plates together?
[02:21:32] <cradek> fancy
[02:21:37] <danimal_garage> hold on, i'll find a link to show you
[02:22:53] <danimal_garage> http://www.mmsonline.com/suppliers/system3
[02:23:08] <danimal_garage> it'll be like that, but a little different
[02:23:37] <tom3p> i use this among other systems http://shop.system3r.com/NSPROD/servlet/se.ibs.ns.cf.StartServlet
[02:24:04] <danimal_garage> i'll have a pin in the center, and it'll have a groove turned into it, and i'll have a mechanism in there that has some pins that fit in the groove and pulls it down
[02:24:12] <tom3p> haha same guys!
[02:24:26] <danimal_garage> similar to the system 3r, but they're a little different
[02:24:34] <danimal_garage> ha!
[02:24:38] <tom3p> knwo what 3R stands for ? "RRR matey, pay me price!"
[02:24:41] <danimal_garage> i'm making my own
[02:24:48] <danimal_garage> hahaha you aint kidding
[02:24:50] <tom3p> ah!
[02:25:02] <danimal_garage> i used them alot when i was a manufacturing engineer
[02:25:24] <danimal_garage> mainly for wires
[02:25:37] <danimal_garage> but i'm going to make a version on steroids
[02:25:43] <tom3p> i do have some of their 6" dia clamps, with a few thousand newtons holding force
[02:25:59] <eric_unterhausen> danimal_garage: what brand compressor did you get?
[02:26:04] <danimal_garage> curtis
[02:26:12] <eric_unterhausen> thx
[02:26:15] <danimal_garage> no prob
[02:26:19] <eric_unterhausen> is it quiet?
[02:26:32] <danimal_garage> yea, very quiet
[02:26:38] <danimal_garage> well, in comparison
[02:27:00] <danimal_garage> i put some heavy duty rubber pads on the feet and it helped alot
[02:27:19] <danimal_garage> i have it in a 2 car garage, and i can talk on the phone easily whern it's running
[02:27:23] <eric_unterhausen> people in central PA only buy cheap compressorrs
[02:27:57] <tom3p> beware cheap compressors and good clamping... close tolerances dont like water
[02:28:02] <danimal_garage> yea, people in southern california waste money, hence why our state is effed up
[02:28:15] <eric_unterhausen> that's good for you
[02:28:23] <danimal_garage> very good for me
[02:29:14] <danimal_garage> people here are too lazy to fix anything, so i've been driving for free for a long time
[02:29:44] <danimal_garage> they'd rather junk a truck instead of fixing a $18 water pump :)
[02:29:58] <eric_unterhausen> nice
[02:30:28] <eric_unterhausen> you got the last Curtis on craig's list
[02:30:45] <danimal_garage> haha maybe
[02:30:52] <danimal_garage> i saw a few when i bought mine
[02:31:01] <danimal_garage> but they were nearly 1k
[02:31:34] <eric_unterhausen> the 80 gallon 5 hp cost $1800 new, so 1k not bad
[02:31:59] <tom3p> danimal_garage: you can automate the clamping tests by checking the time that back pressure takes to build up. say it closes and a photo coupler/switch closes, BUT its cocked... so have an air vent on each of your resting pads. if any are open, it want build up pressure fast, and the plc/hal will catch it and alarm "hey fix this cocked-up fixture!"
[02:32:05] <danimal_garage> it's bad when i paid $175 :)
[02:32:17] <tom3p> want/wont
[02:32:29] <eric_unterhausen> $175 is just bad because I am now wasting time searching for a new one
[02:32:38] <eric_unterhausen> sorry, used one
[02:44:15] <danimal_garage> tom3p, i wasnt going to use air, i'm going to have a long screw that pushes the pins in place
[02:44:28] <danimal_garage> i'll take pictures when i'm done
[02:45:02] <danimal_garage> it'll be a fairly simple setup
[02:45:22] <tom3p> tom2p sends danimal .00025" shim stock to check the pallet ;)
[02:45:22] <danimal_garage> eric, i doubt you'll score one for $175, i just got extremely lucky
[02:46:19] <danimal_garage> tom3p, i'm hoping to be fairly close, everything is/will be precision ground
[02:46:35] <tom3p> just kidding, if you use that stuff you know precision
[02:46:50] <danimal_garage> my plates are flat less than .0005"
[02:47:13] <danimal_garage> i'm just making bike parts, .001" is sufficient :)
[02:48:49] <danimal_garage> yea, i was a manufacturing engineer for shops that did mostly work for solar turbines, pratt and whitney, general atomics, etc.... i'm used to designing close tollerance tooling
[02:48:56] <tom3p> i sued hirschman erowa 3R istema imea thru the years, on wire and sink edms...
[02:49:14] <tom3p> ooooh i do stuff for solar & pratt & siemens turbine
[02:49:22] <danimal_garage> cool
[02:49:27] <tom3p> can you make fixtures for vanes?
[02:49:36] <tom3p> sued/used
[02:49:47] <danimal_garage> i used to do alot of siemens and pratt stuff when i lived in CT
[02:50:02] <danimal_garage> i made tooling for erowa, but never actually used it
[02:50:22] <danimal_garage> as for vanes, i didnt do a whole lot with those
[02:51:24] <tom3p> very nice stuff , i go back to the crossed V stuff in imea, ground V's on both sides, horz dowels in vgroove on 1 side. gets you Z , XY & rotation locked into place
[02:52:10] <danimal_garage> never seen imea stuff]
[02:52:26] <danimal_garage> i'll have to check it out
[02:52:28] <tom3p> thats way cool , you come from such a severe discipline & end up inthe desert making bike parts... congratulatiuons!
[02:52:41] <danimal_garage> but now that i own my own shop, that stuff is too rich for my blood :)
[02:53:00] <danimal_garage> haha, yea, it's like a vacation!
[02:53:02] <tom3p> you wont find imea, its too old ( it had 3 interlocking rings stamped on the castings if you do )
[02:53:17] <danimal_garage> oh ok
[02:53:43] <tom3p> imea begat istema, and istema begat hirschman, ...
[02:54:45] <danimal_garage> i started doing aerospace stuff with my own shop since i had a buddy with a sheetmetal shop that was ISO, but it didnt pay much so i gave up that crap
[02:55:34] <danimal_garage> i was lucky to get $40/hr with that stuff, and it was way more than a pain in the ass than it was worth
[02:56:11] <danimal_garage> too many shops struggling out here, they were bidding so low on the stuff, it was hard to get it
[02:56:16] <tom3p> ! bikes pay better than aero? my aussie buddies made same switch... am i being stupid here ( again ;)
[02:56:44] <danimal_garage> way better, i get $35 a ring for my cheap line, and they take like 15 minutes to make
[02:57:20] <danimal_garage> if i make ti rings, it's much more of a profit margin
[02:58:07] <danimal_garage> way less stress involved since all my tooling and my programs are all stable
[02:58:21] <danimal_garage> no trial and error anymore
[02:59:55] <eric_unterhausen> aerospace tradition is to lose money up front and make it up on spares
[03:00:01] <danimal_garage> too many aero shops out there to get rich off of it, especially if you're just starting out
[03:00:42] <eric_unterhausen> I used to buy parts for the Air Force, what a riot
[03:01:25] <danimal_garage> yea, i can do with out all the mil specs and ISO audits
[03:01:33] <eric_unterhausen> I had one vendor that couldn't get the end of his tubes round
[03:01:33] <tom3p> danimal can i pass your name to the aussies? they sell top line stuff to rich taiwanese
[03:01:50] <tom3p> hell to anyone wanting to pay oodles for bicycle stuff
[03:02:11] <danimal_garage> sure tom3p, aussies are good customers of mine
[03:02:18] <tom3p> will do
[03:02:22] <danimal_garage> much appreicated :)
[03:02:40] <danimal_garage> i sell alot of stuff to AU and the UK
[03:03:07] <tom3p> i want one of those 48" bicycles ( 48" wheels)
[03:03:20] <eric_unterhausen> never heard of that
[03:03:23] <danimal_garage> a pennyfarth?
[03:03:25] <eric_unterhausen> 36" though
[03:03:40] <tom3p> dunno, made me feel like a 6yr old
[03:03:51] <tom3p> i'm 6'4"
[03:04:06] <tom3p> soem guy in NZ
[03:04:17] <eric_unterhausen> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ZOmYbeW-EM/Sd7JDCe1XrI/AAAAAAAABUI/-cJ7ZRJg-cc/s1600-h/IMG_1493.JPG
[03:04:59] <eric_unterhausen> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ZOmYbeW-EM/Sd7JcKzlsII/AAAAAAAABUg/ghaphT7IbWo/s1600-h/IMG_1502.JPG
[03:05:02] <eric_unterhausen> better view
[03:06:04] <danimal_garage> cradek: as far as .75" being a little thick, i'll be locating the plates on 4 rest buttons in a 6" square, clamped down from the center. I'll probably even get a little deflection with the .75" plates
[03:06:55] <danimal_garage> but i historicaly overbuild tooling
[03:07:31] <danimal_garage> it's easier than trying to troubleshoot later on when your parts arent repeating :)
[03:08:12] <tom3p> eric_unterhausen: coker has a 36" http://www.cokercycles.com/ but there was a guy custom building these big bikes
[03:08:33] <danimal_garage> i ride a 29er, and even that's a little big
[03:08:42] <danimal_garage> i'm going back to a 26" wheel
[03:08:51] <tom3p> danimal_garage: the 3R an Hman plates are thicker fer sure, but usually webbed castings
[03:09:30] <danimal_garage> yea, i noticed 3R were cast
[03:10:00] <danimal_garage> with the carbide locating bits
[03:11:19] <danimal_garage> we used to use the old 3R stuff, with the 20mm shanks
[03:11:35] <danimal_garage> but they werent nearly good enough for milling
[03:12:40] <danimal_garage> but we only used them on the wires or rams anyways
[03:12:55] <eric_unterhausen> I hate australians, they are warm right now
[03:13:04] <eric_unterhausen> bastages
[03:13:04] <tom3p> on fire too
[03:13:07] <danimal_garage> i'm warm right now :)
[03:13:25] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, but you have to live in southern California
[03:13:28] <eric_unterhausen> :)
[03:13:39] <danimal_garage> it's a small price to pay haha
[03:14:22] <danimal_garage> i figure even with the inflated mortgage, it's still not much worse than paying the utilities back in CT for the cold winters and humid summers
[03:14:45] <danimal_garage> plus my crappy cars dont rot out so i can drive them forever
[03:14:49] <eric_unterhausen> CT has its problems
[03:15:07] <danimal_garage> yea, the weather
[03:15:09] <danimal_garage> lol
[03:15:17] <danimal_garage> winteritis was killing me
[03:15:55] <danimal_garage> stuck indoors=too much beer intake
[03:16:25] <eric_unterhausen> studded snow tires on the bike
[03:16:34] <danimal_garage> used to do that!
[03:17:08] <danimal_garage> well i gotta run, pizza is done
[03:17:11] <danimal_garage> seeya guys
[03:17:35] <eric_unterhausen> cu
[03:18:16] <danimal_garage> good luck with the compressor search, i'm sure one will pop up cheap
[04:02:48] <jimbo> I have upgraded from m5i20 to hotmot2. when i run the table plus and minus a couple of times. I now receive a following error only after hitting the power button. I am unable to turn the system back on until I restart axis. I had no trouble prior to this.
[04:04:32] <cradek> not sure I understand the chain of events - start emc, estop reset, power on, jog back and forth a few times, then what?
[04:05:42] <jimbo> power off. then power on. I receive the following error while trying to power on not while running the axis back and forth.
[04:05:47] <Jymmm> cradek: then scratch your head, because you just found the secret of the galaxy!
[04:06:42] <cradek> so you jog a few times and all is fine, then machine off, then machine on, then it gives a following error right away and goes back to machine off state?
[04:07:06] <jimbo> YES
[04:07:49] <cradek> you don't get the following error when jogging? it's fine during and after the jog? until you machine off/on?
[04:08:29] <jimbo> That is correct.
[04:08:35] <cradek> huh!
[04:08:54] <jimbo> Yea I know does not make any sense.
[04:09:00] <cradek> what all is axis.0.amp-enable hooked to? I think I remember you hooked it to a gpio - what does it do?
[04:12:16] <jimbo> It is hooked to the main power relay output (X) and the servo enable output(Y) same as I had with m5i20. I have removed the main power relay from the (X) net command and used HAL to power it up. same thing happens. I guess I should try both.
[04:13:06] <cradek> can you get to one of the screws and turn it while in machine off state? I wonder if you still have encoder feedback
[04:13:31] <cradek> if it's well lubed up, maybe you can just lean on the table and watch the axis readouts
[04:14:01] <jimbo> I can turn one of the screws
[04:14:23] <cradek> ok, try it in machine off state, see if the readouts still move correctly
[04:22:44] <jimbo> In the OFF state I can move the screw and I see movement on the readout. When I have created the error in the off state I still see movement of the readout when I move the axis. When I try to power on I see after the following error the table trys to move and i see up to .010 in the readout prior to turn off.
[04:23:45] <jimbo> I am going to look at the PID tuning. But it does not make sense.
[04:23:48] <cradek> does the axis really jerk when you turn it on or is the .010 readout false?
[04:25:40] <jimbo> THe axis does move some. I have not put an indicator on it to find out how much.
[04:26:09] <cradek> catch this in halscope - encoder count, pid error, pid output, f-errored
[04:26:13] <cradek> you can trigger on f-errored
[04:26:24] <cradek> let's see what order things happen in
[04:26:52] <cradek> I'm guessing your amps are jerking the axis when you enable, which (rightfully) causes the ferror
[04:26:58] <cradek> but I don't know why they are doing this if they didn't before
[04:27:20] <jimbo> It might be PID tuning.
[04:27:28] <cradek> are you disabling them the same way as before?
[04:28:06] <cradek> are you sure you have amp-enable hooked to pid.enable?
[04:28:16] <cradek> if not, the integrator might wind up while the amps are off
[04:29:54] <jimbo> yes. But Hotmot tunes much diferenly I have the amp enable hooked to emcmot.01.enable
[04:30:15] <cradek> can you pastebin your hal file for me to see
[04:30:57] <jimbo> Yes what is the website again?
[04:31:01] <cradek> pastebin.ca
[04:34:33] <jimbo> http://pastebin.ca/1729121
[04:38:38] <cradek> ok I'm not seeing anything obvious...
[04:38:43] <jimbo> looking at the readout. After a fresh load I see no movement or settling on power up. After table movement when i power up I see settling in the readout 3-4 tenths
[04:39:59] <jimbo> Taht is .0003-.0004
[04:41:36] <cradek> are these velocity mode amps?
[04:43:03] <cradek> incorrect FF1 (or tach gain or balance) can cause steady state error
[04:43:08] <cradek> maybe you're right and it's just tuning
[04:50:11] <jimbo> Yes these are velocity amps
[04:51:00] <cradek> are you trying for a tuning that's P,D,FF1?
[04:51:16] <cradek> I=0 especially
[04:51:27] <cradek> FF1 will do the same thing as the tach gain knob on the amp
[04:51:38] <cradek> you can null the DRO with the amp's balance knob
[04:51:51] <cradek> I bet you're out of balance, which is why when you enable the axis, it moves
[04:53:22] <jimbo> So I am looking for I to = 0 and then tune using P,D,FF1
[04:53:35] <cradek> yes definitely tune with I=0
[04:53:59] <cradek> probably you'll just leave it that way with velocity mode
[04:54:08] <jimbo> What about ff0 and ff3?
[04:54:14] <cradek> 0
[04:54:22] <cradek> you don't have any ff0 do you?
[04:54:41] <jimbo> Only in axis
[04:54:47] <cradek> ??
[04:55:16] <cradek> you certainly don't want ff0 - that is your problem if you have any
[04:55:26] <jimbo> Are you talking about tuniong inside emc or the servo drivers?
[04:55:33] <cradek> tuning in emc
[04:55:48] <jimbo> OK. Off to work we go.....
[04:55:59] <jimbo> Much thanks......
[04:57:00] <cradek> np
[04:57:05] <cradek> you will get it soon
[04:57:31] <jimbo> Thats what I hope. what a learning curve........
[04:57:55] <cradek> yeah servos make a very complicated system
[04:58:04] <cradek> they work so great once they work
[05:00:46] <jimbo> I used to run manual Bridgports in a job shop in the 70's and I have always wanted one. So I took the plunge and bought a CNC. This has been great fun so far. Soon I will be able to make chips I hope.
[05:01:10] <cradek> where are you?
[05:01:23] <jimbo> Portland, OR
[05:01:38] <cradek> heh, I should have guessed, since you were talking about bike parts
[05:01:46] <cradek> I want to visit there sometime
[05:02:36] <jimbo> Great place if you can handle grey days and a fair amout of rain. Where are you located?
[05:03:01] <cradek> Lincoln NE
[05:03:06] <cradek> we have only snow, lately
[05:04:52] <jimbo> I had my fill last year. we had 3 feet at my house for Christmas. Not on my fave 5. hard to get the truck out to customers houses it gets stuck real easy.
[05:06:28] <cradek> yikes
[05:06:40] <cradek> we never ever get 3'...
[05:07:57] <danimal_garage> cradek: figured out my enclosure situation for the HNC... got my vfd and servo amp power supply and a few other items in the enclosure on the right hand side
[05:08:06] <cradek> yay!
[05:08:10] <jimbo> I live up in the hills. That is the worst snow I had seen in portland in 20 years.
[05:08:33] <danimal_garage> then i'm going to mount another enclosure that i bought behind the machine on the right hand side, and the servo amps will go in there
[05:09:08] <danimal_garage> then the pico and mesa boards plus misc relays will go in the left enclosure, and the pc will be somewhere on the left side
[05:09:23] <cradek> sounds good
[05:09:25] <danimal_garage> i think i'm going to keep the pc seperate
[05:09:40] <cradek> you sure don't want to cut those tach cables until you're sure where the tach boards go
[05:09:57] <cradek> (and they're already on the left side there...)
[05:10:29] <danimal_garage> i'm going to put some male 50 pin connectors in the left enclosure so i can run my 3 ribbon cables from the 5i20 in there without making it look too hack
[05:10:55] <danimal_garage> yea, i think i can pull them through to the right side without much trouble, but i havent looked too hard yet
[05:11:18] <danimal_garage> i kinda saw how they were running when i pulled the front covers off
[05:11:53] <danimal_garage> wait they'll be staying on the left side anyways i think
[05:12:20] <danimal_garage> hmmm i wonder if i should run longer power supply wires to the servo amps and put them over closer to the left
[05:12:43] <danimal_garage> might be easier
[05:13:27] <danimal_garage> i just mounted the vfd and the servo PS, still tons of room in there
[05:14:09] <danimal_garage> i'm going to install a good sized fan in that enclosure
[05:18:30] <jimbo> Cradek: when tuning what velocity should one use.
[05:18:46] <cradek> slow then faster and faster
[05:19:04] <cradek> with velocity mode you'll get error proportional to velocity
[05:19:21] <cradek> as you speed up you fix that error with FF1
[05:19:36] <jimbo> so tune at a low velocity and then raise the velocity figue and lk at ia again
[05:19:45] <cradek> exactly
[05:20:19] <jimbo> ok
[05:54:40] <danimal_garage> cradek: trying to find a way to turn on and off the servo amps remotely.... preferably before the PS.. would a magnetic motor contact be a little hack?
[05:54:57] <danimal_garage> i dont think i have a relay big enough for that
[06:05:32] <raffi> raffi is now known as Guest52176
[06:48:22] <danimal_garage> man, there's alot more wires in this lathe than i thought
[06:48:47] <danimal_garage> and i dont have a schematic
[06:49:01] <danimal_garage> should be fun :)
[10:03:00] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[10:12:13] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[12:20:08] <lilalinux> lilalinux is now known as lilalinux_away
[12:36:20] <lilalinux_away> lilalinux_away is now known as lilalinux
[12:38:28] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[12:52:43] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[15:53:01] <ries> anybody have seen issues with rtai that modules rtai_sched and rtai_hal keep hanging around in the kernel? when I try to remove rtai_hal I get that the modules are in use
[16:05:54] <cradek> just running and exiting emc?
[16:06:55] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[16:07:19] <lumberjack_jeff> I'm having trouble with severe intermittent latency
[16:08:41] <archivist_emc> lumberjack_jeff, type of PC ?
[16:08:59] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[16:11:53] <lumberjack_jeff> compaq celeron
[16:12:14] <archivist_emc> laptop?
[16:12:49] <lumberjack_jeff> desktop
[16:13:31] <lumberjack_jeff> is there a way to interrogate the system to discover its components?
[16:15:02] <cradek> cat /proc/cpuinfo will tell you the cpu spec
[16:15:14] <cradek> lspci will tell you something about what cards are in it
[16:15:20] <lumberjack_jeff> latency test can run for a half hour, @ 15,000 then spikes to 1000x that
[16:15:30] <cradek> is it a laptop?
[16:16:13] <lumberjack_jeff> no, a desktop
[16:16:17] <archivist_emc> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[16:16:30] <cradek> have you turned off all powersaving 'features' in the system bios?
[16:16:30] <lumberjack_jeff> thanks archivist, I've been there
[16:16:47] <lumberjack_jeff> yes cradek, it still persists
[16:16:56] <cradek> what kind of video?
[16:17:29] <lumberjack_jeff> not sure. what's the easiest way to tell?
[16:17:54] <lumberjack_jeff> (my son built the pc from spares)
[16:17:55] <cradek> lspci -v might say
[16:18:10] <cradek> is it a card plugged into pci, or on the motherboard?
[16:19:27] <lumberjack_jeff> s3 virge dx
[16:19:48] <lumberjack_jeff> 99% confident that it's plugged into pci
[16:21:50] <lumberjack_jeff> the latency appears new
[16:21:54] <cradek> anything weird in dmesg? hard disk errors?
[16:22:00] <cradek> what do you mean by appears new?
[16:23:26] <lumberjack_jeff> dmesg; lots of "rtapi: ERROR:..." messages
[16:23:33] <lumberjack_jeff> to be expected
[16:24:05] <lumberjack_jeff> the machine was built in august...
[16:24:12] <lumberjack_jeff> I made several good signs with it...
[16:24:23] <lumberjack_jeff> but now I miss steps on everything I try to build
[16:24:39] <lumberjack_jeff> ... err carve
[16:24:52] <cradek> what has changed since then?
[16:25:01] <lumberjack_jeff> nothing in hardware
[16:25:19] <lumberjack_jeff> nothing really except updates in software
[16:25:34] <lumberjack_jeff> although my shop is quite cold
[16:25:48] <lumberjack_jeff> intermittent hardware problem?
[16:26:05] <cradek> possibly... that's why I wondered if there were hard disk failure errors in dmesg
[16:26:24] <cradek> are the cpu and case fans working?
[16:26:31] <archivist_emc> oil thickens in low temperatures
[16:26:58] <cradek> bad cpu fan might sure give weird problems
[16:27:28] <lumberjack_jeff> yes the fans are working
[16:28:38] <lumberjack_jeff> the machine has geared steppers, but on the last sign that I did, I didn't miss any steps until the sign was half done (and the steppers were warm)
[16:28:46] <cradek> what software did you update?
[16:29:06] <lumberjack_jeff> emc was updated to the latest, for one.
[16:29:19] <cradek> ok that wouldn't cause it. anything like video drivers?
[16:29:29] <ries> cradek: nope, when just trying to run setsmi... but I go for a slightly different approach, I will download a Debian system and compile everything from 0, I think using the ubuntu CD with emc2 and teh rtai gives me to much problems. Apparently the ubuntu kernel doesn't work well on this laptop adding to much crap. For example my HD appears as a sda device instead of a hda device, slowing down all HD actions dramaticly because DMA wasn't enabled
[16:29:52] <ries> With my current kernel settings my latency runs a lot better then teh default ubuntu CD
[16:30:01] <lumberjack_jeff> not that I remember ( updates managed by ubuntu)
[16:30:15] <cradek> lumberjack_jeff: ok so you just installed the updates it suggested
[16:30:31] <lumberjack_jeff> cradek yes
[16:30:40] <cradek> lumberjack_jeff: like you, I think it's hardware, but I don't know how to narrow it down either
[16:31:01] <lumberjack_jeff> no known problems with s3?
[16:31:01] <ries> lumberjack_jeff: some people (I don't) do have good luck running setsmi (at your own risc burning the CPU, computer or your house) to remove these spikes
[16:31:56] <lumberjack_jeff> this is an older pc, I don't think it runs smi
[16:36:21] <lumberjack_jeff> I've tried to correlate the latency events with pc actions, but so far no luck.
[16:36:44] <lumberjack_jeff> I'll snag a new (old) computer at the auction and give that a try
[16:37:08] <cradek> heh, yeah go drive around and grab another one from the curside :-)
[16:37:11] <cradek> curbside
[16:37:12] <lumberjack_jeff> thanks for your help guys
[16:37:18] <cradek> hope you get it
[16:58:55] <tom3p> "shop is quite cold" maybe thermal? try to set a heater nearby ( recent change = winter )
[17:24:36] <jimbo> While tuning PID on my mill I get a low rattle in the servo motor on the Y axis only in one direction. Any thoughts.....
[17:25:17] <cradek> put a scope on the tach and see if it's clean in both directions
[17:25:33] <cradek> brushes sometimes prefer one direction
[17:26:02] <cradek> also, if you can get to the screw, turn the amps off and see if the screw feels the same turning both ways
[17:27:38] <archivist_emc> play in a coupling possibly
[17:28:09] <cradek> yeah I think this is either something mechanical or a brush (servo or tach) issue
[17:28:27] <jimbo> The table feels the same in both directions. I will take my scope down under and look at the tach. I am assuming that the tach will be a square wave of sorts?
[17:28:28] <cradek> of course check that your oilers are all working right
[17:28:53] <cradek> no, the tach should be a clean analog voltage proportional to the velocity
[17:29:14] <cradek> danger - use difference mode in your scope to read it - do not ground one side
[17:29:15] <archivist_emc> mounting screws coming loose can give a unidirectional problem
[17:30:35] <cradek> hmm, actually could be encoder too. sometimes a bogus encoder will count wrong one way. you would probably be losing position if so.
[17:31:14] <cradek> halscope on the raw counts would show it, as would your real scope showing the quadrature
[17:32:51] <jimbo> My encoder is Linear and pretty new. I am also assuming that you are saying to set the scope in AC mode and make sure the ground is lifted to the scope on the 110 side.
[17:33:12] <cradek> no
[17:33:48] <cradek> no, leave the scope grounded. use two probes, one to each side of the tach, then on the scope invert B and display A+B
[17:34:14] <cradek> both channels on the scope stay in DC mode
[17:36:16] <jimbo> OK I understand now. can do. Thanks
[17:38:24] <danimal_garage> cradek: i'm trying to figure out the resolver wiring. it looks like there's a proximity switch in there, what's that for?
[17:40:42] <cradek> since the resolver is geared up, there are many 'indexes' (home orientation on the resolver' per turn of the screw. this prox lets you pick just one of them for homing. consider it a 'fine home' switch
[17:40:55] <jepler_> jepler_ is now known as jepler
[17:41:11] <cradek> (for index homing, hook it to the index mask input on the mesa)
[17:41:46] <frallzor> hello mah babies
[17:41:50] <danimal_garage> cool, thanks
[17:42:53] <isy> hi all
[17:43:04] <danimal_garage> now i just gotta see if i can figure out the wiring without a machine wiring schematic
[17:43:33] <danimal_garage> i have the ge mark century chematics, but i dont think it shows anything machine related
[17:43:49] <danimal_garage> hi frallzor and isy
[17:43:57] <frallzor> lo lo
[17:46:09] <frallzor> whats the topic of the hour?
[17:47:07] <JT-Work> so on the CHNC you look for the coarse home prox then the fine home prox then an index pulse?
[17:47:10] <danimal_garage> transvestite men and the women who love them
[17:47:17] <frallzor> oh fancy
[17:48:41] <cradek> JT-Work: I use the 'fine home' to mask all but one index per screw rev. after that, it's regular 'coarse home' + index homing
[17:49:12] <isy> is there any ready scripts for toolchange ( automatic)
[17:49:26] <danimal_garage> i wish isy
[17:49:29] <JT-Work> what is the fine home prox reading?
[17:49:39] <JT-Work> or sensing
[17:49:49] <cradek> JT-Work: a magnet? in the big gear
[17:50:24] <cradek> you turn it so one of the resolver indexes happens while that magnet is at the prox
[17:50:53] <danimal_garage> that must be fun to align
[17:51:11] <JT-Work> cradek: thanks I have not taken it that far down
[17:51:17] <cradek> yeah it's fiddly but they made it easy (?) to adjust everything
[17:51:33] <danimal_garage> yea, just a few cam locks it looks like
[17:51:40] <JT-Work> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/x-axis-encoder.jpg
[17:51:51] <cradek> right, that's why you can turn all those parts with respect to each other
[17:52:09] <JT-Work> ok
[17:52:16] <danimal_garage> does the tach have to be aligned at all?
[17:52:17] <cradek> JT-Work: oh yours has an encoder hooked right to the screw?
[17:52:23] <JT-Work> yes
[17:52:34] <cradek> JT-Work: wow, simple
[17:52:53] <cradek> danimal_garage: no, the tach is just like a dc motor, it doesn't care about position
[17:52:58] <danimal_garage> JT-Work: showoff lol
[17:53:15] <danimal_garage> cradek: just wanted to make sure
[17:53:19] <JT-Work> not yet, it ain't slinging chips yet
[17:53:38] <danimal_garage> yea, at this rate, mine might be running forst
[17:53:43] <danimal_garage> first*
[17:53:57] <danimal_garage> but probably not running 100%
[17:54:11] <danimal_garage> i still dont know how i'm going to do the turret
[17:54:12] <JT-Work> I think so, I have not even gotten the 5i20 yet, it's on backorder
[17:54:37] <JT-Work> is your turrent same as mine? http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/P1010020.jpg
[17:54:45] <danimal_garage> yea i think so
[17:55:06] <JT-Work> robh finally made me understand what it does and how it works
[17:55:40] <danimal_garage> i'm assuming a ladder diagram needs to be written for it
[17:55:44] <JT-Work> I can forward this evening his ini file to you
[17:55:51] <JT-Work> yes
[17:56:00] <JT-Work> do you understand how it works?
[17:56:03] <danimal_garage> ooh that would be cool
[17:56:19] <danimal_garage> not entirely... i havent gotten that far yet
[17:56:32] <cradek> these turrets are easy
[17:56:43] <cradek> one signal for up-and-spin
[17:56:49] <cradek> another for now-stop
[17:57:00] <cradek> with absolute position feedback
[17:57:01] <JT-Work> a lift and spin air motor turns it and it has a "encoder" that give back the position in binary
[17:57:24] <danimal_garage> i dont think ours has an encoder, does it cradek?
[17:57:46] <cradek> like JT-Work says - not an encoder - but 4 bits of binary position feedback
[17:57:53] <JT-Work> it should have 4 lines out and two power in
[17:57:58] <cradek> right
[17:58:02] <danimal_garage> oh ok
[17:58:05] <JT-Work> yea, they call it an "encoder" on the prints
[17:58:13] <danimal_garage> gotcha
[17:58:22] <cradek> and there's another prox for "you did it right and it's fully seated now"
[17:58:41] <JT-Work> if bit one is on your in pos 1 if bit 2 is on your on pos 2 if 1 and 2 are on you in pos 3 etc
[17:58:43] <danimal_garage> sounds much easier than the ATC on my mill
[17:59:12] <danimal_garage> so can i just use a truth table or something instead of a ladder diagram?
[17:59:20] <JT-Work> isn't there a lock for down too?
[18:00:20] <JT-Work> robh used weighted_sum to convert the signals to numbers
[18:00:56] <danimal_garage> cool
[18:01:10] <danimal_garage> i'll have to read on that
[18:01:19] <JT-Work> * JT-Work needs to get back to making chips
[18:01:36] <danimal_garage> same here, well, sheetrock dust anyways
[18:02:35] <danimal_garage> had to patch a 2'x3' hole where my old in wall ac unit used to be
[18:03:48] <danimal_garage> thanks for the help guys
[18:04:27] <danimal_garage> i'm excited, probably a couple more days and i'll have it wired up enough to tune the servos and possibly make chips
[18:06:07] <danimal_garage> well, maybe more like a week
[18:06:19] <danimal_garage> still got lots to do
[19:01:42] <jimbo> I am unable to do a+b but when looking at the trace when the motor chatters I see about 400 MV of sine in the waveform.
[19:42:29] <jimbo> I put the X servo motor on the Y axis and the problem went away. thoughts?
[19:44:48] <cradek> did the tach go with it?
[19:45:36] <archivist_emc> cables, connections, the moving can fix/disguise a fault like that
[19:45:44] <jimbo> Yes
[19:46:20] <jimbo> The tach is internal.
[19:47:19] <cradek> did you put the questionable motor on X yet?
[19:47:37] <jimbo> No but I will now.
[19:48:11] <cradek> maybe the problem will just go away if archivist is right...
[19:50:19] <archivist_emc> or be hidden for a while :((
[19:50:34] <cradek> yep
[19:50:58] <archivist_emc> cable and connector faults can be buggers
[19:51:00] <cradek> jimbo: is the tach a separate armature, or does it just have extra brushes on the motor armature?
[19:51:46] <jimbo> Extra brushes I think.
[19:52:19] <cradek> did you pull them and have a look? maybe one is broken or worn down to nothing
[19:52:51] <jimbo> I will pull and take a look.
[19:53:31] <cradek> another fun thing you can do is run the motor at a constant speed with your drill press or something. put the scope on the DC input and the tach output and see if the generated voltage is steady. if you have a dead spot you'll see it. try turning both ways of course.
[19:54:42] <jimbo> How about a Makita drill :)
[19:55:14] <cradek> yep that'll do. duct-tape coupler?
[19:55:24] <jimbo> Why not
[20:04:47] <jimbo> running with a drill looks good I get a flat line in both directions. There is a wire for the tach that i do not trust so I am going to solder it and all others.
[20:05:39] <jimbo> I am not a fan of crimp connectors. to much room for error.........
[20:07:20] <cradek> tach brushes and motor brushes both?
[20:08:59] <jimbo> I did not look at motor I will now.....
[20:09:00] <archivist_emc> this comment of yours makes me think of loose screening or ground " when looking at the trace when the motor chatters I see about 400 MV of sine in the waveform."
[20:09:27] <cradek> I agree
[20:13:50] <jimbo> When I look at the output of the motor I see a little ripple maybe a couple of mv in one direction only.
[20:14:14] <Jymmm> Heh, I had a pickup once where all of a sudden I had no head/running lights, fuses were good. Found that the ground wire was screwed into the chassis and the screw came loose
[20:14:14] <cradek> what percentage of the output is a couple mv?
[20:15:36] <cradek> ['in one direction only' seems pretty relevant]
[20:24:03] <jimbo> I am on a 5 volt scale. I am at 20 25 volts and I see about 3/4 volt notch upon more contemplation mostly in one direction.
[20:24:22] <jimbo> Thats big
[20:24:32] <cradek> yeah I bet you've got a motor problem
[20:26:30] <jimbo> I was afraid of that. I am going to pull the brushes and take a look.
[20:34:55] <Jymmm> "# This is an internship job " that's code for "We're cheap bastards"
[20:38:30] <toast> does anyone use a tablet pc
[20:38:50] <jimbo> Yes
[20:38:58] <toast> how do you like it
[20:39:08] <toast> i was looking at getting one because i noticed mathematica supports it
[20:41:04] <jimbo> for my business there is nothing better. I have a low Voltage AV company. It allows me to walk thru a house and talk to a customer while taking notes and then be able to files these under a customer name. I also mount it in my truck so all phone messages are in the tablet. I would not use anything else.
[20:41:20] <toast> awesome
[20:41:56] <Jymmm> toast: What are you using mathmatica for??
[20:42:20] <toast> i use it for any and all math i have to do
[20:42:25] <toast> either for school or elsewhere
[20:42:29] <toast> work, etc
[20:42:30] <jimbo> If you are trying to convert from handwriting to text not so good. For me that is not inportant. I just need my notes My oulook and my phone messages.
[20:42:39] <Jymmm> toast: oh, you already have it?
[20:42:46] <toast> Jymmm yessir
[20:42:59] <toast> jimbo I'm not really going for handwriting, I am going to be taking freehand class notes
[20:43:01] <toast> with drawings and stuff
[20:43:43] <toast> re: mathematica I'm not a very advanced user, I don't have a real need to use it, it just seems to be the best application for the limited use it sees
[20:44:27] <jimbo> Then it is the best I have been using them for about 7 years.
[20:44:54] <toast> nice, I see that windows 7 actually has some really nice handwriting recognition features though
[20:45:12] <toast> so i hope it works as advertised even though I won't really be using that too much
[20:45:42] <jimbo> I am a diehard fan of XP none of my industy stuff will run on the new M$ OS.
[20:46:05] <toast> that's actually where the mathematica support comes in, windows 7 has a handwriting equation editor that mathmathica fully supports
[20:46:15] <toast> i don't have any apps other than that I really have to run
[20:46:21] <toast> so i'm going to give it a shot
[20:48:03] <jimbo> Cradek: I have pulled the brushes they look good. When I look at the armature I see some of the copper contacts look like they are getting hot (blue) not a good sign. might have a shorted winding.
[20:48:24] <cradek> jimbo: ouch, that bites
[20:49:08] <cradek> jimbo: but at least you found it
[20:49:50] <jimbo> Looks like every other one. Is it hard to retrofit a diferent servo motor to the system?
[20:50:29] <cradek> I don't know. that depends on finding one that matches (motor and tach both) I suppose
[20:51:27] <cradek> wonder what it would cost to have it rewound
[20:51:36] <Jymmm> toast: I talked to a freind that works at wolfram and this is what he said: ne that I know of other than he can draw on graphics better maybe
[20:51:53] <Jymmm> toast: that being the only benefit of a tablet.
[20:52:42] <Jymmm> s/ne/none/
[20:52:50] <toast> well my concern was really taking notes and doing math without having to unfold the thing
[20:53:05] <jimbo> It's also great for sitting in your chair surfing the web and making your wife angry.........
[20:53:22] <Jymmm> toast: netbook is MUCH cheaper, I LUST my IdeaPad S10
[20:53:35] <toast> i am looking at the hp tx2z
[20:53:39] <toast> it's like 950
[20:54:17] <Jymmm> *I* avoid hp/compaq like the plague
[20:54:21] <toast> why
[20:54:26] <jimbo> I have owned the motion slate and the Fujitsu slate. I like my Motion slate better.
[20:54:40] <Jymmm> just crap, other than older laser printers/calculators.
[20:54:48] <toast> eh
[20:55:30] <toast> i have not seen many complaints about the thing i am looking at
[20:56:04] <Jymmm> I've worked with them all
[20:56:08] <MattyMatt> hp made v high quality kit in the pre-PC era
[20:56:55] <MattyMatt> and compaq were good if willfully non-standard PC
[20:57:02] <Jymmm> toast: Compaq's are VERY cheaply made, will bow in your hand even
[20:57:06] <MattyMatt> it was the merger that did the damage
[20:57:26] <Jymmm> Compaq laptops have NEVER been any good
[20:57:26] <toast> i don't know of any alternatives in that price range
[20:58:49] <Jymmm> ASUS Eee PC T91 touchscreen is $479
[20:59:03] <toast> is it win7
[20:59:14] <Jymmm> XP home http://www.excaliberpc.com/592186/asus-eee-pc-t91-8.9.html
[20:59:27] <Jymmm> its a netbook
[20:59:45] <toast> yeah, I dunno about the whole netbook thing
[20:59:51] <toast> this is going to be my main and pretty much only pc
[21:00:04] <MattyMatt> get an old thinkpad on ebay
[21:00:36] <Jymmm> toast: My S10 does 1900x on externla monitor
[21:00:36] <MattyMatt> after 4 attempts, I had enough bits to make a whole one :) overall I paid slightly less than whole ones go for
[21:01:07] <toast> i guess, i am really just looking for a standard 12" touchscreen laptop
[21:01:17] <toast> i understand there are other things out there
[21:01:26] <MattyMatt> kindle
[21:01:51] <MattyMatt> dunno if it's touchscreen tho
[21:02:04] <Jymmm> toast: Just giving you options, good luck!
[21:02:06] <toast> ty
[21:02:36] <MattyMatt> I reckon a DS has potential as an emc machine
[21:03:25] <MattyMatt> the latest one has >4" screens
[21:03:31] <Jymmm> toast: hit the store, and play with a touch screen before buying one
[21:03:55] <Jymmm> toast: hit the store, and play with a touch screen before buying one
[21:04:18] <Jymmm> doesnt matter what it is
[21:05:11] <toast_> toast_ is now known as toastydeath
[21:05:54] <frallzor> touch is nice
[21:06:15] <frallzor> even for a non cnc build
[21:07:20] <toastydeath> yeah, I tried looking around for a store that sells hp
[21:07:32] <toastydeath> but I guess I will go to best buy and just find any touchscreen
[21:14:32] <frallzor> MattyMatt !
[21:14:45] <jimbo> I have talked to a couple of shops. both say the windings are good. one want $500 to rebuild the local guy thinks the comutator needs to be turned and the brushes reseated.
[21:15:16] <cradek> they say the windings are good without looking at it?
[21:15:50] <cradek> ($500 sounds like "oh go away" to me)
[21:16:04] <jimbo> Yea if it works ok in one direction they say the windings are ok.
[21:16:38] <cradek> well that's an interesting point
[21:17:38] <jimbo> The $500 wants to replace bearings, brushes, remagnetiz the magnets etc.
[21:19:54] <archivist_emc> hmm bury new brushes and you do maintenance where you can
[21:22:44] <jimbo> Sounds good to me...... I am going to take it apart, clean the commutator, new brushes, test reinstall.......................
[21:24:49] <frallzor> if a spindle says "Duty Cycle: 1" how do I read it
[21:31:39] <cradek> that means you can use it continuously at the given rating
[21:31:52] <frallzor> for how long?
[21:32:02] <cradek> continuously
[21:32:10] <frallzor> until the bearings die? =)
[21:33:04] <cradek> yeah guess so
[21:33:09] <frallzor> cool
[21:36:35] <frallzor> guess thata pretty ok then
[21:36:37] <frallzor> *thats
[21:37:34] <archivist_emc> a domestic hand drill used to be rated for a lifetime of 4 hours
[21:38:02] <jimbo> I found someone to turn the commutator and reseat the brushes. The + tach wire crimp end fell off upon further disassembly. I HATE CRIMP ENDS.
[21:38:10] <frallzor> I guess its very ok then :P
[21:38:34] <archivist_emc> Black & Decker was the make Im referring too
[21:42:35] <MarkusBec> MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
[21:44:47] <ries> hey guys, I just came across this one : http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2400 The guys is asking for a live CD for a specific CNC machine. However, is it possible to store the desktop on a USB drive or somewhere else on the HD of a computer that's for example running windows? This so peopel can play around but keep there config setting
[21:45:52] <frallzor> seems pretty useless
[21:46:02] <frallzor> since noone does the build the same =)
[21:46:10] <frallzor> a regular live cd is as good
[21:53:56] <ries> frallzor: I tend to agree... it was just a question and I was wondering if EMC2 life CD cane safe data somewhere that can be re-used later
[21:54:11] <ries> some people like to try before they install I guess...
[21:54:41] <ries> if they use the MM for work, then you just don't want to experiment and at the end of the day instal windows again because you need to run a job :)
[21:55:43] <frallzor> well there are profiles in the live cd, so I guess it could be done
[21:55:57] <frallzor> might even be easy to just add a new profile, but I dont know
[21:56:08] <frallzor> pure guessing
[21:59:10] <ries> frallzor: I just wonder if there is any data that can be safed... on USB for example
[21:59:23] <frallzor> well the profiles can be saved
[21:59:31] <frallzor> I saved a few when I did testing
[22:00:04] <frallzor> so if you config a profile for the MM it saves it in a file you can just copy away =)
[22:01:55] <ries> frallzor: but what if you re-start teh live CD the next day?
[22:01:58] <ries> then it's gone, right?
[22:02:16] <MarkusBec_away> MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
[22:02:56] <ries> actually, wasn't there a method to store ubuntu on a USB stick? and run it from there?
[22:03:22] <frallzor> <ries> frallzor: I just wonder if there is any data that can be safed... on USB for example I just answered that :P
[22:03:55] <frallzor> if you restart then just copy the config back and its all ok again
[22:03:58] <ries> I did miss the USB portion, so if it can be safed, where is it stored?
[22:04:19] <ries> I do mean in a automated way... no by copying files around manually
[22:04:54] <ries> frallzor: http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-on-usb-bar
[22:05:37] <frallzor> the live-cd offers install, maybe it can do that?
[22:08:43] <ries> yeaaa indeed... I 'think' it's possible...
[22:09:26] <archivist_emc> look at the email list and wiki, someone already did an emc on usb
[22:23:38] <Jymmm> Installing a Live-Cd distro on a USB stick is no problem, Installing a distro on a USB Stick can be done, but be prepared to backup the stick often and replace it in 90 days or so
[22:23:59] <Jymmm> by often, I mean daily
[22:25:41] <Jymmm> Hey, when you have a miter saw, how in the hell do you prevent breakouts?
[22:27:08] <toastydeath> going slowly and using a ripping blade
[22:27:09] <toastydeath> ?
[22:27:57] <Jymmm> Why a ripping blade?
[22:28:18] <Jymmm> Think crown molding or flooring
[22:28:51] <Jymmm> If I tape where I'm going to cut, it helps, but that's a pita
[22:28:52] <toastydeath> maybe I flipped the terms around, it's been forever since I've done real woodwork
[22:29:14] <toastydeath> but a lot of the blades sold are for cutting with the grain and they don't really work well for anything but that
[22:29:35] <toastydeath> they pull the fibers out
[22:29:38] <toastydeath> when you do a crosscut
[22:29:42] <Jymmm> I have a high toothcount blade, I guess I just need a backstop
[22:29:46] <archivist_emc> crappy saw and crappy wood and nothing to support the back side of the cut
[22:30:45] <Jymmm> I know someoen that has one of these and they used it for flooring and never had the issue, there' no real backstop on it though http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1527052369.html
[22:36:08] <Jymmm> Nice tablesaw... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1527558098.html
[22:40:16] <Jymmm> A T T E N T I O N
[22:40:38] <Jymmm> For all of you still using wind/river powered tools...
[22:40:39] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/1527907859.html
[22:45:20] <ries> Jymmm: for critical work I carve the cut with a sharp knife to prevent the breakouts..
[22:45:38] <ries> professional table saws use two saws.... but they are kinda $$$
[22:49:44] <SWPadnos> that DeWalt is the one I have (the DW508)
[22:50:18] <frallzor> if the wather allows, tomorrow is the day I remake my rails
[22:50:28] <SWPadnos> one thing you may be able to do is attach a piece of wood, like a 1x3 or 2x4, as a backstop
[22:50:40] <SWPadnos> you'll slice through it, so make sure it's attached on both sides
[22:51:18] <SWPadnos> that'll provide some support, and with a many-tooth blade it should be OK
[22:51:28] <SWPadnos> as long as you don't try to cut too fast
[22:51:32] <frallzor> any tips ries? =)
[22:53:08] <ries> frallzor: Nope... not really, it's just the knife that worked for me.. sometimes some sticky tape also..
[22:53:37] <frallzor> tips about rails that is =)
[22:53:45] <frallzor> le grind of le rails
[22:58:11] <Jymmm> ries: Yeah, that's just not right in quantity - same as me taping up the material.
[22:59:04] <ries> frallzor: Ahhh Ooo... sorry.. I am concentrating on software writing....
[22:59:39] <ries> Jymmm: I agree.... on the company I used to work we just had an expensive saw, the two blade version that worked very well...
[22:59:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, I think I'm just going to have to make a backstop outof some MDF I have. I dont have a DeWalt but a lil 7" miter saw, so I'm limited on thickness of cut, but that shouldn't be an issue
[22:59:46] <ries> What also works is cut as shallow as possible
[23:00:33] <ries> frallzor: Hmm.. make sure that the skate is as tight as possible on the rail with the list amouth of wiggle. grind in 3 or 4 pases and adjust slightly..
[23:00:55] <ries> to be honest, I am going to re-grind the rails pretty soon as I have seen I made a couple of mistakes...
[23:01:10] <ries> you work... mistake... learn... do it again :)
[23:01:11] <Jymmm> ries: I think I'll just try to make a jig for it, might help with holding too as I'll toss in some adjustable stops for it
[23:01:23] <frallzor> I am leveling the base for the MM so Ill cut outside and then grind on the machine
[23:01:34] <ries> frallzor: that is I think what most people do
[23:01:34] <frallzor> since then the spirit level shows the best =)
[23:03:23] <ries> frallzor: yeaaaa I agree+
[23:03:32] <ries> make sure your base where you put the rail on is level ;)
[23:06:02] <frallzor> got the small parts that needs a lathe done too =)
[23:06:12] <frallzor> should be getting them tomorrow
[23:33:52] <ries> frallzor: good :)
[23:34:06] <ries> I whish I had that easy access to that stuff :s
[23:36:29] <danimal_garage> i wish i had more beer
[23:36:34] <danimal_garage> oh wait, i do!
[23:38:02] <jt-plasma> danimal_garage: I can make 15 gallons at a time if you run out :)
[23:45:29] <danimal_garage> jt-plasma, you have just become my new best friend!
[23:46:40] <danimal_garage> jerky, beer, and hardinge. what else do you need in life?
[23:49:43] <jt-plasma> well, I make wine too :)
[23:51:03] <jt-plasma> well the wife and I like to take rides on the BlueWing when the weather is nice
[23:53:11] <frallzor> hmm my vfd can be controlled via RS 485, does emc support that?
[23:54:34] <SWPadnos> frallzor, yes, if it's modbus
[23:54:47] <SWPadnos> if not, then it's porbably possible to write a driver
[23:55:03] <frallzor> i was thinking usb-RS484
[23:55:05] <SWPadnos> (and you probably still need to customize the modbus driver anyway)
[23:55:06] <frallzor> *485
[23:55:24] <SWPadnos> 485 is a physical protocol, it says nothing about the format of data on the wire
[23:56:31] <frallzor> ok I have no idea what I, you are talking about now =)
[23:56:38] <frallzor> so its hard to fix in other words
[23:57:47] <SWPadnos> I didn't say that
[23:58:07] <SWPadnos> RS485 is like ethernet - it's just a definition of what makes the signal a 1 or a 0
[23:58:36] <SWPadnos> modbus (or something else) is like TCP/IP - the definition of how to make a packet and a list of commands
[23:58:37] <frallzor> still I dont know shit about making drivers and such
[23:58:57] <SWPadnos> well, you need to see what kind of serial commands your VFD takes
[23:59:04] <SWPadnos> what brand is it?
[23:59:08] <frallzor> danfoss
[23:59:22] <SWPadnos> ok, you'll have to scare up a manual at least :)
[23:59:58] <frallzor> RS 485 FC, Johnsons Metasys
[23:59:58] <frallzor> N2 och Landis/Staefa Apogee FLN.