0 ohms between stepper terminals doesn't sound too good 8)
whats the problem danimal?
Should be an ohm or three
You on a voltage range?
ok i checked with a different meter
the cheapest meters aren't able to measure under 20 ohms or so
it's .8 across 5 and 4, and .6 across 5 and 2, or 4 and 2
same with 1,3,and 6
5 and 4 is correct then. And you need a better meter
what, 3 crappy meters dont equal 1 good one?
Though that sounds surprisingly low
But are these huge steppers?
hmm, that's over an ohm per full coil, though
yes, nema 43
then it sounds like right
if you have blown a winding its not normally that hard to re-wind it
i wonder if my stepper drives are getting too warm
do you think that would cause issues?
I might try with a NEMA 43, didn't seem worth it with the 23a
30 ish deg C is only warm
might be different for steppers but you cant usually measure the resistance well with any meter
They might be current-limiting
I'd be happy if the motors gradually heated to 60c
i doubt they'll get over 100f
yeah that shouldn't bother them
so what is the actual problem your seeing?
and it's slow
got a scope?
Big old step machines are slow.
perhaps put the meter into ac volts mode then and spin the motor
tlab2 is now known as tlab
my meters arent all that hot either
yeah, you will probably pick up AC volts better than ultra low resistances
is it on all axies or just one?
i'm just a machinist, i dont have all the cool toys like you guys
x and y
z isnt bad since it's quill feed
so its the same on both?
more on x than y
has it degraded or is it just crappy since you started?
crappy since the beginning
got any photos of stuff?
[00:16:21] <danimal_garage> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/DSCN0546.jpg
thats about all
i can get more later on
yeah just getting a feel
direct drive or grated?
nice mill btw
geared sorry lol
it had a bandit control on it
what voltage are you running the steppers at?
same power supply that was in the original controller
do you think i might be running them at too fine of a step rate?
what drivers are you using, step rate and IO method?
(parr port or what)
mesa 5i20 i/o
havent heard of the leadshine
with a mesa card you should be fairly right
whats it sound like?
little hum but not as bad as the stock drives
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
brb, gunna check the step rate
think thats too fine?
i'm not sure if the motor is effected by that or if it's mostly a drive issue
theres step rate and settings in the controller for micro stepping I'd presume?
[00:26:34] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/IMAG0031.jpg
we are using 500W scooter motors an linear scales
whats the micro step rate?
I meant the driver divides full steps up into segments how small
the smallest appears to be 51200
I'd try reducing that
not sure if i follow you
you know about microstepping?
yea, the motor has 200 steps/rev
it's microstepped down to 1600
and you just happen to have the step rate the same as the microstep size?
sorry you lost me there
you set microstepping on the controller not in emc
emc doesn't know about microsteps
my ini file is configured for 1600 steps/rev
it just sees it as a really really fine stepper motor
it divides a step in 8 microsteps then
that's what was the original question :P
sorry, i'm slow sometimes
er most of the time
thats not too bad
i didnt think so
when it drops steps does it do it all the time?
more or less all the time
at a certain speed or something?
mostly heavy cuts i tihnk
like if i break an endmill, it most definately jumps step
even if it's a 3/16" endmill
sounds like your lacking power
my stepper drive's manual doesnt say anything about dir hold
so i kinda guessed on that one
i have it set the same as the step hold i believe
could this be an issue
i just remember that when looking at my ini
actually i take that back
it's set at 6000
step len and step hold is 2200
dir setup is 6500
sounds like big enough for most things
thats what she said
but if it loses steps only when doing heavy cuts, it's because of having not enough torque/power
so in short, time for servos?
well, you could try more amps for the steppers
so bigger drives, or bigger powewr supply?
if they're only 34°C, you can use many times of what you currently have, i guess
power supply looks like it's 20a
what settings does the drive have? or does it have any
it has current, microstep, and half current hold settings
current settings are maxed
what is the current setting then
7.2a i think
i wonder if there's a speed-torque curve for the steppers somewhere
i don't really know what it's usually like for that big ones
i doubt there's anything, they're 30 years old and superior electric didnt know anythnig about them when i called
they're superior electric motors
based on some random google searches, i'd guess they give half the stall torque at 200rpm
if they're anything like the current nema 43 ones specs-wise
they're 1125 oz/in holding torque
it's gotta be the drives
yeah, they sound a little light
you can do servo's fairly cheaply
i'm seeing 1.6A at the motor
do they give the max current on the motors?
1125oz/in is about what nema 43s are currently, too
it's sitting idle
with steppers it doesn't matter
motors are connected
you see 1.6A on the motors?
thats way low
actually he will need to measure the current in each coil
you should be seeing 5 or 6 A probably
whats the coil voltage?
yes, measure both coils of the motr
Does anyone know if EMC2 found "M108 S13.0" and executes a M108 scritp, if it passes the S13.0 as an argument to M108 script?
danimal_garage: what about the other coil?
lol your motor is pulling 4W per coil
8W in total
does always EMC2 pass all arguments to Mxxx scripts?
i have headphones pulling more power than that
our servo's are pulling ~200W or so when moving
8W sounds like 34°C indeed
try to get the drives supply more current or get new drives
especially with that ^2 term in heat disipation
IE at 60C you will push out 4x the heat of 30C
that's if the room temperature is 0°C
i dont know how to get the drives to supply more current
[01:10:20] <Valen> http://www.leadshineusa.com/Show_Product.asp?id=196&B_id=
7.8 A 5.6 A OFF OFF OFF
only thing i can think of is using the old drives, but they have some weird quadrature input from what i read
that's where it's set Valen
try changing it, see if the current changes
what kind of current meter are you using?
can you trust it? :P
also the meter will introduce its own resistance which can reduce the current flow
although the 2.7v across the coil says something is wrong
also, the current is probably pwm switched which could confuse some meters
and so is voltage
should be high enough that the inductance of the coil should smooth it out
does it make a low pitched whine? (just sitting still)
it will wobble at least a bit anyway (shouldn't make big measuring errors, though)
2.7V / 0.8 ohms sounds wrong, yes
it makes a little buzz
my meter seems to measure current pretty well
really low frequency PWM?
the drive also seems to have some "Self-adjustment technology"
Casainho You could try calling your M108 script as a numbered subroutine, that will definitely pass a parameter as #1, #2 etc
andypugh: ok. thanks
which might mean it will alter the current if it's standing still, or something
Let me find a link, it's a bit involved
danimal_garage Servos are nice ;-> and you have the mesa card already ;->
the current is 2a when moving
and you can get more power out of their driver boards http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/IMAG0072.jpg
measure the current *into* the driver ?
that should be smoother and will give a wattage out fairly easily
you can't really measure the current when moving
thats the psu rating not the actual current draw
I think that O108 call [12.345] will call your file (called 108) and pass it the parameter 12.345. But I might be wrong, and can't test it right now
well, maybe if you run it at something like 50 steps/second and use the AC setting of the meter
i checked the amps with my meter and it said 20a
at 48 volts?
how did you check the amps?
There is a lot of power not going into the motor there
What sort of drillbit do I want to cut holes into 1/4" steel?
how much does it say when it stands still?
spasticteapot a round one?
How big are the holes?
Up to 1/2"
I have a drill press with a 500W motor
power supply gives 20a with nothing hooked up
ordinary HSS twist drills then
danimal_garage: Say what?
andypugh: Won't they go dull almost instantly?
And when they eventualy do, sharpen them
roh: my extruder already works
....lame as this is, may I ask how I do that?
Make sure that they are High Speed Steel, not cheese.
danimal_garage: but how much current goes to the drive when it doesn't turn the motor?
[01:23:25] <andypugh> http://www.woodcraft.com/Articles/Articles.aspx?articleid=267
danimal_garage are you measuring the "amps" by putting your meter across both terminals of the power supply and setting it to amps mode?
Is this a usable object for sharpening bits?
[01:24:08] <spasticteapot> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98061&xcamp=google&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cpc&zmam=33951326&zmas=12&zmac=112&zmap=98061
Valen: I'm surprised his meter didn't catch on fire.
spasticteapot you can drill a lot of holes before it goes blunt
Absolutely, it says so on the label :-)
it arced pretty bad
thats cos it was a dead short
Can anyone recommend a good brand of inexpensive drill bit?
inside you meter is a bit of wire with a measured cut in it
Sorry, but decent ones cost a bit.
when you are in amps mode the meter measures the voltage drop across that bit of wire
so basically you just put a piece of wire across the power supply
But a $25 set of 15 will last you decades
thats gotta be healthy
usually you will find smoke by doing that
so how am i supposed to check it?
don't try and measure the amps of a wall socket ok ;->
you never do that for a start
you put the meter in the line between the power supply and the load
odds are your supply was putting out 40 or more amps and your meter was just maxed out
so is my 2a reading not correct?
andypugh: That's what I'd consider "cheap".
on the motor?
I wouldn't trust the current reading on that meter any more until you check it
how did you measure that?
danimal_garage: Was it a good meter?
across a+ and a-
when measuring current, the current to be measured has to be fed through the meter
To measure current, you generally want to put the meter in SERIES with the object being measured.
you know what volts and amps are?
Cobalt steel is good, TiN is a pretty colour and pointless
extech... probably an $70 meter
VOLTS are measured in PARALELL.'
But this set looks good: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=36891
That's not too bad.
yea i know what volts and amps are, i just didnt know how my meter worked
don't buy drills at HF, they're useless
Surely not all of them?
My drill press is American-made.
look at the points on them before you buy. If you can tell by eye they're off center or incorrectly split, leave them on the shelf
how many holes are you trying to drill?
so is mine.. i have a very old delta
Valen: Quite a few.
If you can buy some drill bits made in Sheffield you will be OK
I love the PTD 135 split point screw machine drills
I guess not that many by a machinist's standards - I'm trying to make some money fabbing enclosures for DIY audio enthusiasts.
are you doing production of a few hundred parts or just doing normal home shop stuff?
Yeah, that set is cobalt steel split-point.
spasticteapot: do you only need a few drill sizes? you can buy good ones then, and save frustration
I'd suggest getting a set of cheap ones then any you wear out fast replace with a cobalt bit
If your only doing Al its not going to matter anyway
Valen: Yes, but I'm making them out of 1/4" steel.
if it's not too important that your holes be the right size or in the right place (and not drilling deep), the HF might be fine
should still be ok for a fair while
There's actually some method to my madness on this one.
1/4 ... wow
cradek: Not too much precision is required for these - it just has to look good.
Thick steel either way.
Nah, that's thin
danimal_garage so you know how to measure volts and amps now?
Say, does anyone know if I can use a kiln to anneal steel?
1/8 aluminum is plenty strong enough for panels - 1/4 steel is nuts
cradek: Yes, but the steel is already in the right shape and looks spiffy.
I'll tell you what I'd do if you want steel, get it plasma cut from a CnC cutter
so i need to recheck my motor, huh
From what I understand, I need to heat steel to around 750-850 degrees to anneal it.
we cant buy steel for the price we can get it cut from the plasma cutter mobs
Why do you want to anneal it?
I would avoid doing that spasticteapot, cos it'll warp like a bitch
To make it easier to drill.
Hot-rolled sheet is annealed anyway
Yeah, but I'm using structural steel.
It's the right shape, it's cheap, it's immensely strong, and if I can figure out the correct bath, easy to electroplate.
I will happily drill 12" holes in 1/4" steel with my cordless hand-drill.
One or the other, not both
I just bought some Klein hole saws on FleaBay and am wondering if it was not a good idea.
And I have had the same set of (Dormer) drills for the last 15 years.
I found out after I bid on the blasted things that they're only good for 10ga. metal.
OTOH, $25 + shipping for six is cheap.
you can't cut 1/4" of steel with any hole saw
and to sharpen drills, check the tip by looking at the shadow, cup you hand over it it block lite, look at profile & rotate it, you want tip in center and correct angle for metal being drilled, rotate to see the relief is good and equal. sharpening small drill is hard. 1" drill is easy ymmv.
It says on the package "CAN CUT 10GA. STEEL"
And then there's these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120498193843&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
It would go deeper in a drill press, with care.
I have used a hole-saw for 1" thick aluminium
6.5A at idle
Does motor oil make a good coolant?
little better, huh?
thats more like what you want to see
yeah just a touch lol
But once the teeth are buried the swarf doesn't clear, so you have to retract and brush every few seconds
i use it for drilling and tapping
spasticteapot: good enough for drilling
Rocol cutting fluid is better
i use mobil 1 lol
I suspect that Mobil1 might be _too_ lubricative
spasticteapot got a CnC mill of some kind?
Is the tapping liquid the same stuff?
Valen: $75 drill press.
so why you asking in #emc lol?
I mean I know we are awesome and all
I think there are some bug with EMC 2.3.4, because I can't get argv from M108... however I get it form other M1xx...
so since i'm getting decent current, i guess i'm back to where i started
Yeah, I use the same squeezy bottle for drilling, tapping, turning, milling and hacsawing.
Because I keep getting bullshit answers everywhere else.
looking for a servo swap lol
danimal_garage: What servo?
6A at what voltage again 2.7?
Casainho: Is there a declaration of M108 in an ini file somewhere, and not the others? (Or the other way round)
That's very very low impedance - I'm thinking maybe a short.
That's only about 0.45 ohms.
they are big motors spasticteapot
and those carbide holesaws look good. I checked and they have metal tooth geometry, not concrete.
it's quite a big motor and he got 0.6 and 0.8 or something with a multimeter (which could measure such low resistances quite unprecisely)
andypugh: no, nothing on init file related to M108...
andypugh: I actually bought a different set - they say "Klein", and hopefully they're not total crap.
so that could be right
What voltage is the motor designed for?
I am afaid I know nothing at all about custom M-codes
Or, more accurately, what is it running on?
And how many watts is it rated for?
1.2A idle, and 2A moving
A/C or D/C?
So normal current/voltage specs are irrelevant.
rated to 9A
danimal_garage: where did you measure those values
opps sorry yes, 2.7V
so about 30W or so
at the coils
(for both coils)
danimal_garage: Unipolar or bipolar?
still somewhat low
unipolar i believe
And did you check all the coils?
it's unipolar, driven with a bipolar drive
with coils in series
because it has 3 wires per coil
that'll give him the most torque per amp
So, more ambipolar then :-)
I'm not being very helpful, am I. :P
any help is appreciated :)
i'm very new to all this
If your drive is set to 9A then you should get 9A
it's set to 7.8A
That's the drive's job. \
6A could be near enough
the drive is set to 7.8A max 5.xA continuous
Have you tried manually stepping the motor?
ah, then it's just about right
Connecting the various coils to voltage and seeing if it moves?
no i havent
the machine moves
I wonder when it decides it is not moving>
i've been using it for months, it's just not very accurate
same here andy
losing steps with heavy loading, it was
that's bt guess
you should try to make it lose steps without loading
i have the velocity and accel set pretty low
yea, i was going to try that celeron55
but i can always tell when it's going to jump
i'd put $$ on it being low speed
Run the stepconf axis check, run an inch or two up and down for a few minutes, and see if it stops where it started
i cant use stepconf, can i?
i have a 5i20
Probably not then. A long G0 loop then
While #1 LT 1 brazillian
Valen: it happens when i hear the cutter under load, like when it sucks in a small piece of scrap or when i take a heavy cut
i just need to find a cheap servo swap
what screws are you using?
servo wont automatically fix it without loads of power
if you mean ball screws
Does EMC support the addition of optical encoders to form DIY servos?
You could fit encoders to your steppers. It won't stop the problem, but it would produce a follow-error when it slips
i thought about that
I know a chap with a large mill equipped with ballscrews who was thinking about a conversion. Which stepper driver kit is most recommended?
but if it doesnt fix it, i'm just out more $$
We had an Isreali lass here a few weeks back who built a servo from a DC motor, some card with felt-tip gray-code pattern on it and mouse opto-sensors.
Also, what sort of optical encoder?
andypugh: Much better is to use the mouse encoder with a slotted wheel, but yeah, it'll work.
umm... i have a diy servo made with an AVR :P
For a large mill, not steppers at all
my dog keeps eating oranges from my tree
I was just going to gear 'em heavily.
steppers suck on big machines
Yeah, they don't seem to scale.
i'd have better luck with a hampster wheel on each axis
What if a large DC motor was heavily geared and combined with an encoder?
The get bigger and torque goes up with diameter, mass up with diameter cubed, and moment of inertia with diameter ^4
Just get a servo.
[01:58:50] <celeron55> http://celer.oni.biz/~celeron55/random/2009-10/totallyrandom/01102009.jpg
just for playing around, but it's a diy servo anyways :P
danimal_garage we are using linear scales
it seems to be working fairly well
Yeah, or a Frenkenstein drill motor
with 500W scooter motors
and some "modified" 200W dual cards from mesa
andypugh: that also
upside is we don't care how accurate the screws are
I think we are using the same screws too
heavily geared diy dc servo, to be precise!
theres some pics http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/
showing it and videos as well
only thing is you have to have backlash less than your scale readout or the motors will hunt and it'll be bad
problem is i need my machine running quickly as it's my sourse for income
andypugh: Strictly speaking, a servo is just a DC motor with a gearbox and an encoder. That said, you're probably right.
danimal_garage: O rly?
so i kinda need a turn key kinda swap
What do you make with it?
No need for a gearbox to be a servo
[02:02:57] <danimal_garage> http://homebrewedcomponents.wordpress.com/product-pictures-and-pricing/
danimal_garage: those are some really nice parts, I'm just getting back into framebuilding
I was...and then I got arthritis.
I'm in college. WTF?
what you can do is put a dc motor onto it hook up a variable PSU and see how much oomph it needs to move it
Anyone recall that youtube vid of a milll like danimals with servos? It was throwing those large iron castings around with abandon
(or just plug a drill battery in)
i saw that andy
whats yer budget danimal_garage?
preferably like 1500 or less
455 Kuwait Dollars, we decided
i already baught the 7i33
430 Kuwait Dollars left
(Things sound cheaper in that currency)
haha very true
danimal_garage: Do you CNC brass?
I think I need to start telling my wife the cost of things in Kuwait dollars
I CNC brass, in fact that is eventually all I want to work with.
where are you located danimal?
i dont usually cut brass, but it's not much different than anything else
Lovely stuff. Free machining, strong, corrosion resistant.
san diego, california, usa
danimal If you can get away with using mesa products to drive then you don't need that 7i33
cos there wont be any analog drift or anything silly like that ;->
I saw a sales thing from the Brass Marketing Board (or similar) saying that brass should be used more, as the high material cost is very often offset by the reduced manufacturing cost. Tool wear is low, machining speeds are high, and it is as strong as mild steel, but saves on protective finishing costs.
i talked to peter, he said none of their drives will work for my application
I need some brass rings machined for some goggles.
They're to be sold at anime conventions.
danimal: Have you considered absolute linear encoders instead of rotaries? I doubt that emc cares where the feedback is from
8I20 should do lol
Valen: your 500W scooter motors from where? used? ebay? rpm?
andypugh thats what we are using
andy, no, but the encoders are the cheapest part of the swap
[02:13:45] <Valen> http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?cPath=96&products_id=189&osCsid=12570bd0bb78525c2ba3e83991513e48
what about those keiling motors
danimal we are hitting 1.5M a minute speeds on ours
Buy 18 fanuc servos, auction them off in singles, and keep the best three?
and about .01mm cutting accuracy with .001 scales
i can get fanuc servos for #00 each locally
Valen thx, lookat http://www.scootercatalog.com/xtreme-x500-motor-48v.html
That's my point. buy eBay 270492357769 and undercut the local price.
do you think that will move my machine?
im not happy with low rpm ( would like at least 3000rpm to get rapids up )
problem is i dont know enough about drives to find a deal on one
we are only running 24v on the 36v motot
what kind of mill Valen?
it goes scary fast as it is
did you see the pictures and links I have been posting?
[02:18:20] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/IMAG0031.jpg
i checked some, i might have missed one, i am running a machine while i'm chatting
900mm travel on X
smaller than yours but similar ballpark
my machine weighs 6000lbs
it's 17x36" travel
just a touch ;->
cool machine though
i'd like to get something like that for engraving work
with both of us pulling on it as hard as we can we cant slow the travel down
What speed do those motors reach?
we hit 3 meters a minute or so on rapids
limited by accel
at 24 volts
Does anyone here take work on commission?
And a better question: Would anyone here take payment in trade? :)
Yeah, I was thinking 10,000rpm would be about right
direct drive at 5mm a turn
it's half the power at 24V vs. 36V
and 2/3 max. rpm
we don't hit all the power of 24 v as it is
I'm scared to run it much faster lol, its a full traverse in about 10 seconds or so
It's a 48V motor, and PM DC motors are limited by voltage
Valen is screw .2" pitch (5mm) or steeper?
soory, i see 5mm
Bosch do a 750W 24V PM DC motor that does 10k rpm. Its a great bit of kit (it was the motor of choice for UK RobotWars)
here's some serious rpm with fairly much peak power: http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/BP389010-00.html
[02:26:16] <andypugh> http://howto.killerhurtz.co.uk/boschspec.gif
these scooters would put more power out
if your after power look at the mag motors
we were looking at those
but you need to get them from the supplier in the states with loads of volts
yep, they'll give loads of power
also, for insane amounts of dc power: http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/EMS-PMG132.html
That Bosh motor is 10Nm (at 150A)
with something like a 7I29 to drive it
Yeah, Lynch wins (won the electric TT)
we use stuff from RMP a fair bit in our combat robots
But the Bosch GP750 is <$100
[02:29:43] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KidY2oJBAG4
good news is when I smoked my drive's serial port, I didn't smoke the encoder on the motor
(Great shots of the back of my head in that clip, but both robots used the Bosch GPA motor)
I bet the guys that ran robot wars back in the day wished they didn't spend the '90s suing each other
i take it none of that stuff is big enough for my machine, huh
Aye, I think they should try again. The tech has come on a _lot_ and I am certainly up for another go. I have a great deal more cash, equipment, and experience now too.
The Bosch GPA 750 would be, look at the spec sheet.
I agree about that, but I'm talking about the competition way before the television show
And also see how it throws a 100kg robot about at 10mph or so.
they gave a weight advantage for autonomous robots, but nobody knew how to do that back then
Whereas now, you could afford to trash arduionos at $50 a pop
I don't know if you could do the job with an arduino, maybe a herd of arduinos (we're giving them away)
wait, that is winnebegos
danimal_garage heres a "scale" for you, atm your motors are putting out 36W or so, Ours are pushing 200-400 or so
We had to cobble together all sorts of random parts to get radio control to mix and drive big DC motors. Now you would have RC-in and PWM out to power mosfets, and off-the-shelf hardware in the middle with custom software.
servo sizing is a bit of an art
Our main problem was that we didn't understand the parts we bought, so when they broke (or got smashed) we were in trouble.
andypugh just use a pair of victors or a sidewinder with a hobbyking 2.4Ghz radio
We were only allowed 40Mhz at the time
yeah, now they (in the USA) don't allow anything other than 2.4ghz
(I have wacky mental image of a roboteer typing in G0 commands to make a robot fight)
danimal_garage, If you at one stage had hand turn type wheels on it, and they were un geared those scooter motors would do the job for you
some of our segway robots decided to drive through a wall
fortunately, it was in our lab, not the wall into the hallway
they have robot soccer, that is no doubt more difficult than beating up another robot
this machine never had handles on it
I wish my machine had handles
I actually bought handles for it, but I couldn't figure out a way to put them on
I have a gold medal from robot soccer :-)
my table is about twice the weight of a 42x9 bridgeport table so it'll take some effort to turn
do you have a Tree mill?
[02:52:16] <danimal_garage> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/danielwilcox/DSCN0543.jpg
what do the vicegrips do?
they're there to turn the vari drive
for the spindle
that machine looks similar to my BP series II, but heftier where it counts
it had a servo on there
danimal: watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6LW10VTsMI
again and count your pennies :-)
what do you think that is, 200ipm?
andypugh, I can't help but think that thing is going to fall over with the table out that far
i emailed that guy to ask what motors and drives he was using, got no repsonse
they looked like some of the AB motors
N series I think
the base is pretty substantual
yeah, they do fall over if someone puts something like an engine block on there though
those motors are probably pretty pricy, huh
do I have to tell you my motor purchasing secrets?
ebay, look for misspellings, wait for summer
[02:57:49] <andypugh> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Allen-Bradley-servo-motor-MPL-B520K-MK24AA_W0QQitemZ380168023249
not specifically, no
my problem is i dont know what i'm looking at.
I am too, even though they retail for $2000, I'm only happy if I pay less than $50
most just have a part number, and they';re too old to have any data sheets online
I'll pay $100 if they have the cables
ab was buying companies and selling them like crazy
screwed up the product support
but many companies sold the same motors
it's the drives i have the biggest issue with
ab, giddings, electrocraft kollmorgen
drives are a pain
I think I looked at these, and they were 300V so I lost interes
they will run off 120
300v is dc, 220ac mains supplies
I can't get 120 either :-)
230 is all I have
But they are way too big for my machine
danimal_garage: If you get brushless, make sure the motors match the drives, if not sure, skip it
[03:03:40] <danimal_garage> http://cgi.ebay.com/Whedco-IMC-1130-1-A-AC-Servo-Motor-Drive-Controller_W0QQitemZ390125523712QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad54b1300
Now you tell us!
ac drive for cheap
dont know the size though
also recognize that the cables retail for hundreds of dollars; making them yourself may cost you $50 and up
I have motors coming from Thailand and drives (10 year old Bodines) from California and no idea if I even want them :-) (bit less than £100 total)
the guy with the rebuilt Shizuoka needs to get the way oiler working yesterday
yea, seems like a rust bucket
danimal: At that price, buy it and experiemement, then eBay is back if it is no good.
I know someone is getting a steak dinner tonight... http://imagebin.ca/view/wa6UAD.html
i wish i could find data on it to see if it could handle a decent sized motor
Jymmm was that guy shooting?
Stupid dog. Stupider man. glad to see the dog won
I'm old and it's hard to see
you see the smoke
danimal_garage If you wanted to do it right, I'd get the 2.2Kw drives from mesa, (the 150V ones) and the 4 inch mag motors
direct drive with the finest linear scales you can get
I'd run it off rectified AC (no PSU) though perhaps an isolation transformer
with a buttload of filter caps
Someone linked to Killdozer last night? It seems to me that if you have a bad day and go off on one and, say, build a tank, or perhaps steal one, in the US, you are almost guaranteed to end up shot dead. In the UK that only happens to brazillian electricians.
[03:10:38] <eric_unterhausen> http://cgi.ebay.com/Reliance-Electro-Craft-Servo-Motor-F-4050-Q-H00AA_W0QQitemZ190354205954QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c51fead02
those work ok
peter said their servo drives wouldnt work for me
2kw motor though
Hi all. I have a question: I just installed the newest version of EMC with a LiveCD but when I go to open it I pick a configuration (any of them) and after a few seconds it freezes up completely. Any ideas?
Ooh! Ooh! an actual EMC question!
JohnReason, before axis opens?
The AB MPL B520 Is a 3.5 Kw 460V motor
Axis? All I know is that the little blue square with Tux holding a hammer (or something) pops up, and then in the background EMC opens, then it freezes
The only thing you can do is move the cursor. Nothing else I have tried does anything.
JohnReason: try starting emc by typing "emc" at the command line, you get rather more debug info
I guess he will be back
danimal_garage: that motor link I posted before is by an idiot that isn't going to sell anything because his shipping is too high; buyers stay away even though the overall cost is reasonable. He has more than one drive
andypugh: he tried to start emc again
$428 to ship that motor to me. I think I will decline to bid
Whoa! My connection just dropped. Did I miss anything?
JohnReason: what kind of computer?
JohnReason: Welcome back.
those motors are probably expensive to ship because of the boat anchor gearboxes that nobody wants
I think I've bought from that guy before, I certainly recognize the name
i wish i can find some data on that drive i found
that link you posted recently?
maybe it'll work with that motor
they're both a/c
doubt it would work
the drive is too small you think?
the drive electronics are probably ok, but the encoder interface probably doesn't work
Whedco were bought by Fanuc in 1999, so that is an old drive, but the Fanuc site might have a spec
2.2kw is ~3HP
thats bigger than most spindles
Valen: think of the jog speed
and your working stepper system is using 30 watts
0.003 hp or so
[03:20:32] <eric_unterhausen> http://cgi.ebay.com/Electro-Craft-IQ2000-PDM-10-Indexer-Servo_W0QQitemZ200413075040QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea98cd660
he's selling the drives
Yeah, buy the drives and motors and take a road trip
I am not sure exactly. I got it free from school. I am pretty sure it has a 1.6 ghz Intel processor, about 1gb of ram, and a video card.
JohnReason: So, any error messages? Does dmesg say anything?
Sounds fine for the job
I don't know what dmesg is, but I am guessing I couldn't access it anyway.
If you boot from CD then you can do whatever the heck you want
Except if the machine is frozen. Err, ignore me, everyone else has learned to
Will I get decent results booting from the CD? I figured that it would be less efficient.
If you boot from the CD it ought to "Just Work"
so he has 2 motors and 1 drive
so i need to get another drive and i'm good for x and y axises
Well Everything I have tried in Linux works, until I try to open the EMC app
All the CPU-intensive stuff is memory resident anyway
JohnReason, have you tried one of the sim configs?
SWPadnos: Have you heard of "SP Resistors" ?
JohnReason: You could try opening a terminal window and moving it to somewherere the splash-screen doesn't occlude
Sorry for being naive. lol
SWPadnos: ok, thanks. I'll call the mfg =)
JohnReason, when you run EMC2, you should be presented with a list of possible configurations to run
you must select one before EMC2 will run
andypugh, I will try that later if I can't figure anything else out.
SWPadnos, I tried Sherline 3 axis, and G540 3 axis, since I was just trying to get a feel for the program... and wanted to puch pretty buttons. lol
ok. one of the items in the list is "sim", with a+ next to it. There are several configs under there, if you expand that directory by clicking the +
Hmm, actually, I have had that machine config picker pop up in the background, and make the whole machine unresponsive till I picked the right "not a windows taskbar" icon
So that might possibly be the while issue
you guys think those servos are overkill, huh
No, too much is never enough.
They are overkill at list price, but cheap enough? You could always under-run them
Okay. You guys have given me a bunch of ideas. I will check back here later if I can't get it fixed.
Thanks a lit
JohnReason, one thing to note: don't try to start EMC twice
i'll throw a low bid on everything
make sure it's fully shut down before trying to start it again, or you'll probably have problems
Yeah it hates that, and tends to not tidy up properly.
You can easily end up with orphan RTAI threads which won't quit
andypugh, technically, the run script should detect that the realtime system is loaded and unload it relatively gracefully, but that isn't always possible
well, I'm going to try to get to sleep again. night all
I can tell that it is trying, and no criticism was intended.
ok i'm off too
thanks for the help guys
0340am and work in 5 hours, me too,
is an optical shaft decoder the same as an encoder?
and/or will it work with my 7i33?
itd be nice if siggen had a 'ttl' out, not just +/- 1, but 0/1
how do i load halscope and tell it to not try to resurrect some unused config ( how to avoid list of unknown channels ) i used 'loadusr halscope'.
if emc is running, you can start halscope from the command line and specify a file, for syntax, try halscope -h also, once running, you can specify a configuration from the pull-down dialog on the File menu
dgarr: yes, but it remembers the last use ( say to check an encoder ) , and now i want to look at an analog value. it complains that the encoder signals are missing.
how do i say 'start with no config'
you might want to create a .halscope configuration file for each alternative you use with the save option of the file menu
for no configuration, try halscope -i "" -- seems to work
dgarr: thx! now have a simple pulser made out of a sim-encoder
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
did first CnC job with Z axis in play tonight
twas kinda cool
Valen, congrats! :)
had some weirdness where one of the straight cuts came out with a bump in it
Valen, how are your other axis doing?
not tuned as yet
well kinda sorta
but in need of refining
have had X and Y running for some time
need to get the rotary going now
going to use the old one for the time being
might try the bit of string and a weight method of backlash removal ;->
yeah, i will face all this goodies later :)
we are looking at making our own decent rotary table a bit later on
what's the other emc channel ? ....emc-devel ?
i tried that one.....blank
i keep forgeting the
EbiDK is now known as EbiDK|AWAY
I have forgotten that '#electricity' or similar channel.
Wanted to read the book they offer.
The channel "#electrics" has a number of webpages which form a book. I need to read something to understand how the machine is working.
I have forgotten the channel's name
#electricity or #electrics...
thanks, kind kanzure
haha i got the xy table moving with the sin & cosine of siggen, lets make a jig grinder
put a hula skirt on it and let's just make a jig. /me gets out the squeezebox
one thing I'd like to try sometime is a lens grinder
a specialised machine might be best for that tho
or maybe not. with x,y you could do things like combined concave and 45 deg mirrors
which would be handy for steering stationary lasers etc :)
eeh. focussing an IR laser. fun
sorry, collimating :)
right, where's my surface table? (me scans room for flattest looking table)
I knew it, when my bro was stick a knife in this coffe table, I'd want it flat one day
it was in his room at the time, and that requirement seemed to speculative to ask him to refrain. he was in a knife-sticking mood after all :)
lens grinder, what for?
I need specs for a start
and then I want webcams with focussing lenses on voicecoils
for a robot vision plan
as big as I can do with x&y on my table, if I can, for telescope lenses
custom spindle with a floating polishing disk
not my current table, it's wood so no coolant
I wish achiest-dragon had offered me his first steel one 2 days earlier :) I had just bought a table saw
ah it woulda needed bigger motors than I could afford
need force feedback, i had similar polishing requests
sorta like laser height above wavy panel
tlab2 is now known as tlab
power went out last night just as I was getting rolling on the servomotors
1st snow just started here, chicago
we had our first snow back in October: Pennsylvania
i went mountain biking in some snow last weekend
here in southern california
funny. we're getting fairly heqavy rain here in Vermont
I went mountain biking in snow on July 4 in Utah
i believe it
didn't expect to find snow
where in utah?
never been there
i did a mountain bike race in brian head utah one july and it hailed so much it looked like snow on the ground
the hail is about the only downside to utah weather
but that was 10,000-12,000 feet altitude
I swear it hails there almost as much as it rains
I lived at 4800 feet, not really that much difference when it comes right down to it
4800 is almost at the snow line out here
actually i think it might be above the snow line
last weekend was kinda fun, we started in the high desert where there was snow, and ended up in palm springs, which is pretty hot
2 entirely different climates
we had our first light dusting here also. (western WI
the ski areas in Utah are really unhappy if they don't have 2 feet of base by now
i think my family got snowed on already in Maine and Connecticut
I started to get the ski itch this year... (I need to find some used ski/boots) I didn't get out last year and my boots have finally fallen appart
they have only had 20" of snow this year
looks like you're going to spend close to 1k new. Yeck.
i just lit the pilot on the furnace this week
gets down into the 50's at night
I miss real snow, I went from beginner to skiing in trees in just 2 years, then moved to Pennsylvania and can't stand to ski on ice
heh - that is funny - I learned to ski on ice. It is fun.
i learned to ski in connecticut
at ski sundown
when the snow is 5 days old in Utah, people start getting killed because they don't know how to ski it
ok my dogs are staring at me.... i gotta go walk them
i'll be back
tom3p, lucky you (snow), we have nothing yet around moscow
and warmest weather i could ever remember
dimas, everythings changing (on top of changes ). i hope moscow winter's not too hard this year, i'm sure you recall bad ones
gaah why does jackofoam curve when i mill it :/
its straight when i begin
but after milling it curvs backwards
stress in the material
so need to mill it on both sides with other words :/
got a skin? remove skin and it will bend
either it had stress in it to begin with and by removing material, it freed it somewhat, or you created stress when you cut it
tom3p, humm ?
its a "skin" surface on one side
blunt cutter causes stress
it compresses the skin
i wonder if i can aneal it :P
skins tense one side, relieve tension, and it will bend ( actually un-bend, the straight was caused by pulling on one side of a curve ;)
put it in oven and heat it up and bend it streight :P
put it in water then it turns into a foam dinosaur
MrSunshine, what i usually do is rough it all out then i take a small finish pass on everything
the roughing pass usually makes it move if it is going to
if the bend is ok in the final part, but it causes probs during cutting, use vacuum or tape or spray glue or... something to hold it flat while cutting like sewing machine foot
check to see if it's parrelel after you cut it
it could be the material deflecting when you cut it due to poor workholding
danimal_garage: you know Anza-Borrego state park?
would you live there?
if i was a lizzard
hot as hell
ah, i like short answers, so its dry & hot ( good for solar, not for keeping cool ) thx
well i guess it depends on if it's high desert or low desert
iirc the advert said 'view of mountains', not view from mountains
anza is all desert
but some parts are nice
i mean it's mostly nice, just depends on the season
i best visit, sounds ok for camping
danimal_garage, havent played with finnishing passes. .. and dunno how to make heekscnc do them :)
great for camping, off roading, mountainbiking, etc
MrSunshine, can you put in a tool offset?
or a tool diameter?
MrSunshine: all heeks cnc pockets have a finishing pass ( a less than normal amount of stock to cut that wouldnt deflect the cutter as much as the normal pass would )
tom3p, automagicly ?
MrSunshine, the key is you need to unclamp it then reclamp it to let the part go where it's going to before the finish pass
MrSunshine: i see the zigzag does not, but the adaptive did
danielfalck, but i dont clamp it realy .. i hot clue it to a flat surface
if it's constrained in a stressed state, it isnt going to help much having a spring pass
and thats concerned with tool deflection not material moving
the glue will still constrain it
yea, you probably dont have much tool deflection with foam unless you have a really light machine
its a 6mm 4 flute endmill
so dont think the tool will actualy deflect =)
do you have a flat surface on the part before you put it on the machine?
its flat from when i cut it from the stock
atleast ALOT flatter then it comes out after milling :P
ok then it is stress
its the thin surfaces that have the surface skin of the foam still on it that bends
the thicker parts stays straight
as mentioned, make sure your tools are sharp
make sure you dont heat it up too much
and it sounds like tom3p is right, you might need to take that skin off
i guess as that would be alot more tense then the rest of the piece =)
gonna try that later .. now its time to hit the gym =)
thanks for the help :)
no prob anytime
so when i'm looking for servos, aside from hp/kw, what should i be concerned with as far as sizing it to my machine?
i know i need to match it to a drive so voltage, ac/dc, current, etc are all important, but i'm just trying to figure out sizing now
is there a direct relation between holding torque and hp?
since i have a big machine and it might be going direct drive, should i find a lower rpm motor?
so.. Who else masking tapes an extra fan on one of the server processors when the original one freezes? (didn't have any duct tape)
I've been known to swipe the space heater out of the VP's office and point it at the hard disks (heat setting off of course)
danimal_garage: can you visit any machine shop with cnc's, looking at real stuff that works is good. the sizing of a motor requires some thinking in the physics realm, and the mathematical solutions are also in the physics realm. BUT looking at real examples goes a long way
i've got 110 fans tie wrapped onto the ass of this box :)
skunkworks_: the space heater stayed there until that computer was retired when we moved office, a few years later
tom3p, my machine is sort of an uncommon size so it'll be hard to find a close match
it turns out using a touchpad on my drives pretty much disables being able to talk to the drives over rs232. seems like there should have been a warning in the manual
no obvious way of resetting either
I hooked up rs485 yesterday and caused smoke on one of the drives, don't know how that happens either
only thing i can do is go with one that's from a bigger machine
all red top fanucs are dc, right?
are they brushed?
hard to tell
[17:04:38] <danimal_garage> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=95-240-255&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
for brushless, I wouldn't worry too much about the dc/ac designation because it's really match up drives to motors if they aren't made to work together
and I never found a brushed dc solution I thought I could live with for my BP series II
the factory setup on my series 1 works great
maybe you could find one to part out
that's not an anilam is it?
no, boss 8
there's a ton of sanyo denki servo amps around for cheap
too bad I'm on the other side of the country
[17:08:31] <cradek> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280399311282
[17:08:39] <danimal_garage> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=13-405-138&searchtable=2&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP=
he's been trying to sell this one for years - I remember the funny pictures
what awg size do you guys use for a stepper motors that uses about 5Amp and is around 10 meters away from teh control box
ha, in one of the photos, you can see there's a board out of it sitting on the table
i guess too bad i dont live in connecticut anymore
he woulda been local lol
danimal_garage: there are lots of businesses going under, surplus is flush with this stuff
one would think
I used to know more about the sanyodenki equipment, but I've forgotten. Those drives look old
they still want an arm and a leg for parts
[17:13:48] <danimal_garage> http://cgi.ebay.com/Sanyo-Denki-PV1-BL-Super-PV-Servo-Drive-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ400087420080QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5d27118cb0
tons of those guys on ebay for cheap
in different sizes
couldnt find any data sheets so i dont know anything about them
I think the bl super are yaskawas
there used to be a place you could download the manuals, you had to register though
they average 50 bucks
I wouldn't buy one with missing front panel though, not for $45 especially
[17:16:05] <danimal_garage> http://cgi.ebay.com/Sanyo-Denki-BL-Super-Servo-Amplifier-with-SERCOS-PV2_W0QQitemZ400086346252QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5d27012a0c
ugh, look at all those odd connectors
same as yaskawa
ah, one with wires - much better
the funny thing is that the connectors aren't very expensive, but the hoods are ridiculous
I hate it when they cut the wires, what a batch of idiots
yea, connectors scared me away
at least you get the connectors then - wire is easy
still dont know the size of it though
those connectors are fine pitch so it's a pain to solder them
mini-scsi2 4 rows of hell
tom3p: that's why I wasted a lot of time on ebay and bought prebuilt cables
they are often mis-listed
i hand soldered the yaskawas and panasonics ( scsi2's) but local techs wanted to use crimp on flat bands. most failed, mine always worked ;) (solder is good )
I wish I was better at soldering, I would never use crimp on those
danimal_garage: that sany? i believe it 50W from the model number, google it to make sure
i think that's too low
but I've been wrong before
yea 50w is wayyy too low
i was thinking at least 1kw
but i dunno
i was thinking 500w
that's a guess
so was mine lol
it just looks like the 500k yaskawas
oh i ment i was thinking i needed 1kw for my machine
depends on your rapids
but you might
sad thing is I have a hard drive somewhere with a bl super manual hidden on it
i'd be happy with 200ipm
as long as the acceleration was good
I want a NAS appliance where you can plug in your old hard drives and have them on the network
that would be cool
looks like it's not too hard to find cables on ebay if you are willing to pay
one device that looks very interesting is the drobo
drobo+drobo share = NAS
drobo - I haven't heard of that ....
[17:33:41] <alex_joni> http://www.drobo.com/products/drobo.php
haven't tried it myself, but it looks ok (judging by reviews & such)
alex_joni: yu have to wipe the drives to use it in drobo
Jymmm: Dave911 was looking for a NAS .. any advice?
Sure, how many hdd's?
Looks like a fair amount to read about on that website.. The customer needs a NAS with Raid mirrored or Raid 5 - any opinions ?
I guess at least 3 for Raid 5...
check the drobo video: http://www.drobo.com/resources/drobodemo.php
Dave911: Wait, do you just want a NAS, or do you want to reuse existing hdd's with content already on them?
But 6 would not be out of the question.. they need to backup big file sets for Autocad inventor etc..
Dave911: and what kind of budget?
The HDs would all be purchased new... this is an entirely new concept for them - long overdue IMO
Dave911: and usable capacity?
$1500 to perhaps $2K
capacity - the more the bettter
Dave911: thats not a number
that could mean anything between 500GB - 500TB
6 - 1tb or 1.5 tb drives would be great
Dave911: No, I said USABLE capacity
OK, say 4 TB minimum
ok, hang on.
I'm very patient when people are willing to help me.. :-)
are there any who aren't willing?
yes.. I have met them .. ;-)
Dave911: shoot 'em
Dave911: That supports up to 10GB RAW
So maybe a conservative 6GB usable,
That thought has crossed my mind .. :-)
Jymmm: I saw that Walmart sells stuff like this before and I was really surprised .... Are they an ok place to buy stuff like this??
I have read some decent things about Thecus before but I have never used on of their boxes
Both USB and Serial for UPS usage too
it's blue :/
* alex_joni hides
Yes, I think the UPS interface is a really good idea ...
Dave911: They are not the fastest things, but you're not paying $3000 either.
Blue is rather strange but it will probably go into a closet anyway
heres a similar motor with amp in that BL series, i cant find the manuals for BL's no figger the coding from the number, bu this one's 350W, so 500W becomes reasonable guess for last unit
Dave911: You can also add-in modules for ssh access to it too.
Speed probably can't be a huge concern for that kind of money
jeeze tom3p, you doubted me?
dual g-bit with aggregation sounds fast enough
Dave911: It works, I yanked a hdd, waited a few minutes, tossed it back in, and it started to rebuild the raid.
Oooooooo cool so you have one like that ??
Dave911: I played with one that we sent out to a remote office.
So are those hot swap drive bays also?
Dave911: Just be sure to buy hdd's from different places - in case there is a mfg defect
It can also be an iSCSI target too
OK, well since you have first hand experience with this box I'll tell them to go with it. That means a lot.. Thanks! :-)
Dave911: If you get two of them, they can be configured to backup/fallover to the other too.
Jymmm: I need a scsi to usb converter
Dave911: Plus if yu get it from walmart you have 90 days to return it
eric_unterhausen: SCSI? for what?
Wow, that is a pretty powerful box for that kind of cash ..... 90 days is better than Newegg - most of the Newegg stuff is 30 days now it seems..
to get some files off a hard drive
Thanks guys .... I send the Company that link and see what they have to say.... that fits their budget perfectly with the drives.
thought about seeing if there are any services, but the computer is dead, not the hard drive
I meant.... "I'll send"
Dave911: Just be sure to tell them to buy hdd's from different places
eric_unterhausen: you dont have a spare box and a scsi card?
usb2scsi adapters are $60+
anywhere, google "usb to scsi"
never thought of that :)
Jymmm: I usually buy drives from Newegg ... is anyone having issues with Seagates 1TB and up drives ?? I've read about some failures.
Yeah I've heard that too. I guess it's on to WD now. The 7 year cycle continues
While on the supplier subject - does anyone have experience buying stuff from Tech Data ?? I just got signed up. That seems like a really strange company - really big and not so friendly.
Hmmmm... you have heard the same thing also.... geez. And I have had really good experiences with Seagate in the past also .. I bought 20 WD drives last week but they say they are good drives - the 160 gb caviars. Long ago I had a bunch of bad experiences with WD and I haven't forgotten the pain from that yet..
yes, a 7 years cycle in hdd mfg's
well 5-7 years
you buy enough hard drives, you'll experience heartache
Yes I suppose so.. :-(
so use raid and backups 8)
just buy different date code drives or they'll all fail at once
as Jymmm was implying
Yes that is what I tell them.... but some people do not think that hard drives fail - seriously - and that if it does fail - it will fail next year. Things are fine now.
they don't fail unless you need them not to fail
>>buy different date code drives or they'll all fail at once
I didn't pick up on that. Sort of like light bulbs I guess.
i have one partition mirrored on two drives of different make and size on my small server :P
i guess that's something you can rely on
Dave911: it's happened to more than one organization
drives often fail for a reason that is shared between drives
No necessarily, a friend had the same thing. one drive failed, got so hot it melted the mirrored drive.
Best is to mirror systems
preferably not in the same timezone
Jymmm: hmm... maybe i should mount them further apart :P
celeron55: extra cooling doesn't hurt.
though i guess that's several orders of magnitude better than a single drive, still
celeron55: eh, unless the control burns out
The company who is asking me about this NAS box wants to use it for a backup server so the backup server and their other PC would have to die to lose the info.
I'm always concerned that the PS is going to die an zap everything in the chassis.
hdd's usually fail quite quietly
Jymmm: are there any way to setup 2 ubuntu systems so that they are identical... on fails the other takes over? Am I making sense?
[18:13:03] <Jymmm> http://rdiff-backup.nongnu.org/
but you need to add in to account for the ip transfer too
rdiff-backup is rsync with incremental
thanks - some reading to do.
Is EMC compatible with pen plotters in any way, shape, or form?
so i've been playing around with my velocity and accel
it starts to stall a bit at 120ipm
110ipm seems to be ok
i'm going to slow down the accel a bit and see if i can bump up the velocity
then i'm going to run some tests to see if it's missing step in the higher speeds, or under a load
Hi all ... just got a probe going but need help with the file ... probe program is posted at pastebin/ca as 100567
danimal_garage: what are you doing with the machine... Higher accelleration might be better (like for contouring) than a higher max speed.
problem is that I don't get data in the file. :-(
opps can't proofread .... 1700567 should make more sense
skunkworks_, i do mostly milling, and i';m trying to find a happy medium between accel and velocity, slightly favoring acceleration
so far its looking like maybe 110ipm and accel set at 7
once i pick up zero i'm going to write a program to jog all around the travel a couple dozen times then i'll check zero again
then i'll know if it's a high speed issue i'm having, or a low speed under load issue
you should run tort.ngc.. :)
if you have the travel
i have approx 23x10x5 that i can use without taking stuff off the machine
it has 37x17x6 travel usually but i have things on the table that keep it from going that far
opps sorry, 28x10x5 is what i can use
dave_1: I don't know off the top of my head... Maybe (PROBEOPEN probe.test ) take the spaces out of the end of the comment.. Maybe you have a read-only directory the the probe.test is getting writen to?
yes, try giving an absolute path for it
does a 4 letter extention cause problems?.. .test?
linux doesn't care about extensions
'DOS' a 4 letter extention cause problems?.. .test :)
heh - I don't know what emc does with it...
do you get a file and it's empty?
cradek: if he did - what would that mean?
just trying to make sure I understand "don't get data in the file" before I guess
seems like he gets a file but it's empty, but you gave advice assuming that he doesn't get a file at all
exactly ... I get the file but it is empty
where does it put the file?
I think it puts it in the current directory ... where you were when starting emc. ... ~/emc2/configs/stg in this case
I see we have (logopen,filename) and then (log,a string with things like #123 expanded) then (logclose)
I think that is a more flexible way to do this anyway - maybe try it?
will probeopen take a path ?
yes looks like
you could even (log,G01 X#5061 Y#5062) to generate gcode output
well - that is cool.
guess I should try that ... btw ... I'm using probeopen .... as per G38.xx docs or at least that is the what I thought I read
yeah I thought that worked too... but the generic logging stuff is so much better I'd be tempted to just fix the docs if I find it doesn't work anymore :-)
jepler, what kind of bits/rpm do you use for PCB milling?
guess it is time I go test some more ... I'm pretty well chilled from being in the shop. heaters are on full blast so eventually I'll get it warm
enought to really do some work.
have a new probe .... uses the logic.0.or etc. pretty impressive ... will post some stoff after I get logging going.
haha my machine is soooo slow compared to that other shizuoka on youtube
i have it putzing all around the travel at 110ipm to see if it skips step
bill20r3: precisebits.com EM2E8-0625-60V Mechanical etch bit (0.0625in carbide spiral flute for trace isolation milling. RCC08-0315-026F .0315in (0.80mm) dia. chip breaker for cuting out boards. various carbide number drills.
bill20r3: my spindle is approximately 20krpm (no speed control)
wow thats fast
much thanks. I was just admiring your pcb's on your blog.
they're very pretty.
two boards I did with those same pcb tools
for a short time I used the .0100in stub end mills, but I think the v-bits are better
I suspect those tools are the best you can get
cradek: didn't you start with thinktink bits?
I suspect my "mill" is all kinds of sloppy.
skunkworks_: same I think
bill20r3: any backlash will make it impossible to make pcbs
bill20r3: I recommend getting the tools with the depth-setting rings; they're accurate enough that you can only need to touch off with the trace isolation tool
bill20r3: well anything over 10-20% of your desired trace width
It's not "done", but it moves & cuts enough to let me know what needs work.
jepler: how fast are you cutting?
skunkworks_: over 20ipm, but I am not sure exactly how fast
the machine where I run gcode.ulp isn't available at the moment, so I can't tell you what I'm using by default
fwiw I think I have 18-20krpm and I also cut at 20ipm
30k would sure be nice
some day I'll actually measure my spindle's speed
jepler: happy with the servos?
how much stuff have you done since then?
I've cut a number of PCBs
neat, I didn't know that. they turn out as well?
yeah they are coming out fine
I don't seem to have put any photos online tnough
quick question while i'm here.... if i have a g53 programed, every line beneath it uses the g53 coordinates until i tell it differently, right?
when in doubt...: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G53:-Move-in
good to know
well i got good news
could be bad news
after running my test program at 110ipm and accel set at 7, it went right back to xyz0
i let it jog around for 10 minutes at max vel/accel changing direction alot and using the whole table
so it is deffinately a low torque issue rather than a high speed issue
be sure your test program has G61, otherwise you're not using the full accel
so i gotta redo it
ok its rerunning
with a g61
still confirms what i originally thought though, since before i had the velocity set at 85 and the accel set at 3
now it's 110 and 7 and no problems
what did you change?
well before i kept slowing it down thinking i was running it too fast because it would miss steps, but i had the suspicion that it would miss steps under a load at slow speeds instead of high speed so i cranked up the vel and accel to just under where it would stall and ran a test program at high speed with no cutting to see if it would miss step
and it didnt
so it is in fact loosing step at low speed, not in rapid
that's a sign of a resonance problem
is it microstepped?
microstepped 8 times
hmm now that you mention it
it doesnt sound very smooth at certain velocities
i can especially hear it in the z axis at low speed
but if i go up a percentage, it quiets down considerably
wow that makes perfect snese
it was moving at about 4ipm in z when i hear that weird change in pitch
and that's a common feedrate for me
sometimes you can move or eliminate the resonance by adding mass (or rubber) to the screw
would changing the microstepping help?
i think my old drives that were on the machine moved in half steps
and there didnt seem to be a problem
[20:37:45] <danimal_garage> http://www.euclidres.com/apps/stepper_motor/stepper.html
I'm back ... new program is at pastebin.ca/1700728
creates file but one must be careful about spaces between logopen, and filename.
what am I missing?
what do you mean what are you missing?
cradek where do you think a good starting point is for microstepping with my nema 43's?
i've read some stuff that says more microstepping can help fix resonance, but then i read some stuff that said bigger motors dont neccesarily like alot of microstepping
I don't know anything to suggest except try the settings available
usually 4-10 microsteps is lots better than halfsteps, which is lots better than full steps
otoh the number of microsteps is dependent on speed
some drives turn microstepping off while at full speed
i'm having low speed issues
i had it set at 8
try different values is also my only advice
4 seemed pretty choppy
yea, i've been trying a few
cradek ... any ideas on the logging ... empty files are not very useful. ;-)
do I need to put a log, X#5061, etc .... after each probe?
or is it modal
A comment of the form (PROBEOPEN filename.txt) will open filename.txt and store the 9-number coordinate consisting of X, Y, Z, A, B, C, U, V, W of each successful straight probe in it. The file must be closed with (PROBECLOSE).
that one is specific for probing
there is another one for logging general purpose values (but you need to write them out using (log))
alex take a look at pastebin.ca/1700569 ... I thought that is what I was doing but something doesn't work. BTW - updated emc yesterday
any more ideas for a linux webcam capture and ftp program?
hmm the sound changes when i change direction
jt-plasma: there are pletory of tools/scripts and even streaming cam solutions
I seem to have some problems finding them :)
and or getting the ones I find to work :/
[21:31:53] <cradek> http://cserv.sourceforge.net/
cradek if i can get these steppers working reliably, i think i'm going to get the hnc up and running with emc
heh, last updated in 2002
danimal_garage: I remember that gene h put some kind of rubber dampers on his leadscrews to get rid of a resonance that was bugging him - maybe you should ask on the list if you can't solve it
looks like camserv is for streaming videos to web browsers
dave_1: try probeopen and probeclose
I know I tried that successfully
alex_joni: he did that earlier and got an empty output file
well, he's getting an empty file with (LOG,...) too
cradek will do, thanks. there is some rubber in my couplers, but i'm sure there is more i can do
he must be doing something wrong :-)
did the file exist before running the program?
did you take a look athe pastebin?
I suspect the file might be readonly
danimal_garage: that might make it worse, actually. there is little/no mass directly connected to the motor shaft then.
created outside of emc2, with improper permissions
i'm playing with the microstepping and accel now to see if i can get it quiet in the 4-6ipm range
thats where i have the biggest issues
i cut my ti and stainless at that speed
that's a pretty important range!
and it seems to move most there
hmmmmm ssh is handy and much warmer than the shop. file is -rw-r--r-- and is being created that way in this case by (log) but probably also by probeopen
thanks for the help, i'm gunna go play with it a bit
I suspect it did the same thing in my home directory
so who need write perms to make this work.
I can always create something like /usr/data as a directory to write to and load the perms.
I don't think it's permissions
the "logopen" file is created in the directory with your config file, not in your home directory
if the file is being created the permissions are fine
so what is missing?
specifying a path in your home directory is a good idea
if you have spaces in the logopen line, those spaces are in the filename
(I notice you have a trailing space in the file you pastebinned)
Yes, I found that out
dave_1: I promise I'd tell you if I knew
also a comma before the filename, not sure if that's a problem
the manual just says: (PROBEOPEN foo.txt)
can anyone duplicate this problem under 3.2.4?
ok i got it quiet
I think I've tried it both ways but who know ...
i gues i'll set up a part and see how she cuts
I'll go play some more. .... 4 Kw of heat should eventually impact the shop. :-)
lol i'm so glad i live in a warm climate
I ran this file in the development version of emc, and it did what I expected (put two lines in logfile.txt in the configs/sim directory):
worked with no logclose?
though I should have included one..
(istr somebody may have added a flush in master which is probably not in 2.3; that would make a difference)
working on getting the stable version so I can test again
I bet STOP() or whatever it's called should close the two possible output files if they are open
dave_1's program had (logclose) so the problem wouldn't appear to be that..
would also be nice if hitting abort did that
yeah unless he didn't run it all the way through
if there were spaces in the filename at one time or another, I'd remove all files with related-looking names (in the file browser if necessary) before trying again
and yes, make sure to run to completion
with (logclose) 2.3 worked as expected.
alex .... YES the comma does make a difference.
I think logopen needs the , and probeopen doesn't (ugh)
appears to work without the comma ... i.e. (PROBEOPEN /home/dave/probe.txt) works.
OK, now that I have something works I can be picky about some other details.
THANKS for all the ideas and help.
concerning lopopen and PROBEOPEN consistency re' comma would be nice.
logopen .... great typing .. ugh with cold stiff fingers.
Is anyone here familiar with pen plotters?
spasticteapot: I know they're a relic of the 80s that nobody in his right mind would want today
will post when I'm happy with the probe.
spasticteapot, pen plotters are retro-awesome. what do you need to know?
I need a vinyl cutter, and was wondering if I could repurpose one.
From what I understand, the key elements are the knife holder (not too expensive), the cutting surface (probably a wood strip), and a plotter of some sort.
However, I'll be buggered if I can find any software that can make use of them, especially under Linux.
there is an inkscape plugin, afair.
they speak HPGL.
I wrote a tiny hpgl'ish interpreter for an avr.
man, what's wrong with freenode today?
"ish", in that it only handled a subset of hpgl, no arc's & stuff.
I'm certain that arcs are the fun part
spasticteapot: not sure if you got this earlier: pens don't use much pressure. their Z is fairly weak. an exception is the Mutoh models that can use pencil
I left them out, and just did 'flatten splines' before printing anytning.
cradek: nope, didn't make it through
your connection got reset by peer
cradek: Neither do most cutters - the knife only penetrates through the vinyl, but not the paper below it.
still more force than a pen
Is anyone here familiar with how a plotter applies pressure? If it's a simple solenoid, goosing it up a bit wouldn't be too hard.
afair just a solenoid, but the rail it's attached to will be pretty weak.
pen up, pen down
what model plotter do you have?
want another pen plotter?
heh, no thanks.
[22:12:23] <spasticteapot> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFxZ4Tzhiqg
I'd like one. :)
[22:12:46] <bill20r3> http://www.xmission.com/~bill/plotter2.mpg
<-- whiteboard plotter thing I made.
jt-plasma: free shipping ?
all the way to Dexter from there you have to pick up the cost of shipping
* alex_joni googles dexter
it's just East of Dudley
you will have to swim a bit of that too :P
duh, I have a good surface table. I just spend ages working out how not to crack a well supported marble slab without twigging it's a well supported marble slab. just gotta scrape the paint off
or rubber-glue a piece of glass on top
my shop is taking shape. I've clamped my drill press at a good working height too
pics or it didnt happen!
I was afraid of that
i still need to take pics of the new setup in here
looks a bit different with my new lathe squeezed in
* jt-plasma wonders if danimal_garage squeezed as much as I did to get a lathe in :)
i'd be impressed if yours was as bad as mine
this is a big house. floor loading and staircase are the limiting factors
my shop wont make its way into the house
there's a 10x8 shed underused if I need a concrete floor
i keep her in the garage with a few things outside
I'm not setting up any permannet shop at momma's tho. I need my own big house kthx
yea, i got a 50'x12' covered patio out back that contains my wood working tools
they got demoted to outside once the metal shop moved in
I might cover this patio now you don't need planning permission
build wall around patio...win
dont need walls here, it's warm and dry all year
momma's patio. it has to look nice. if it gets walled in it'll be glass
[22:33:02] <jt-plasma> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/hardinge02.jpg
[22:33:20] <jt-plasma> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Hardinge/hardinge01.jpg
"but momma, it's a beautiful machine"
nice machine jt-plasma
i have an old hnc
this is a CHNC I
I still need to lower it to the floor and get it running
mine's very clean, and awaiting an emc swap
nowhere as nice as yours though
it's Z4.5" from final position
mine's in place and wired
but i havent used it yet
* jt-plasma goes back to try and figure out how to ftp my web cam to my web server :/
so robh can see what the screen says
jt-plasma: sudo apt-get install webcam-server
"Start up the server with the binary name of the utility and point your browser to http://localhost:8888
to configure it."
it's in universe in hardy ..
alex_joni: I have webcam-server installed but get an error for http://localhost:8888
I don't understand this "Start up the server with the binary name of the utility"
dpkg -L webcam-server |grep bin
probably that name
dimas: dpkg shows /usr/bin/webcam-server
I get no such device /dev/video0
did you make the device?
hmm well i cut 1 stainless piece and it went back to xyz0
so far so good
eric_unterhausen: I don't know :/
it should be part of the installation
what did you change?
otherwise you have to create and link to the driver
ok, I didn't do that
I just plugged the web cam in
andypugh: i did some tests to see if it was high speed issues or low speed
cheezy sees it
and it was low speed
and cradek mentioned that it sounded like a resonance issue
so i played with the microstepping and it looks to have smoothed out
jt-plasma: check dmesg
there should be something when you plug the camera in
usb 4-4: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 9
you should be able then to symlink /dev/video0 to /dev/usbwhatever
plus since i found out it wasnt high speed issues, i was able to crank up the velocity and accel a little
usb 4-4: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
uvcvideo: Found UVC 1.00 device <unnamed> (046d:0805)
fingers are cold so they are working slow :0
I just unplugged and plugged it back in and got this from dmesg
[363167.259483] usb 4-4: USB disconnect, address 9
[363170.514613] usb 4-4: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 10
[363170.815776] usb 4-4: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
check if there's a /dev/video0
[363170.816116] uvcvideo: Found UVC 1.00 device <unnamed> (046d:0805)
almost always has to be created
there is a /dev/video0 and 1
Specify the video4linux supported device to capture frames from.
/usr/bin/webcam-server -d /dev/video0
if that fails try video1
if you had asked me this 7 months ago, I could have told you what to do off the top of my head
could not open logfile '/var/log/webcam_server.log' for writing
sounds like a permissions problem
try a sudo in front of it
you can only write as sudo in /var/log
now try localhost:8888
I get Waiting for localhost... in the status bar
I have a webcam somewhere I intended making into a centre-finder
jt-plasma: hmm.. sounds like webcam-server isn't listening
try a 'netstat -apn | grep webcam'
kill the webcam-server first?
it is doing a bunch of get_cam_image();...
netstat looks at open ports (from running programs)
tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:8888 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 12105/webcam-server
tcp 1 0 127.0.0.1:8888 127.0.0.1:33837 CLOSE_WAIT 12105/webcam-server
tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:8888 127.0.0.1:33838 ESTABLISHED 12105/webcam-server
tcp 1 0 127.0.0.1:8888 127.0.0.1:33836 CLOSE_WAIT 12105/webcam-server
tcp 1 0 220.127.116.11:8888 18.104.22.168:4773 CLOSE_WAIT 12105/webcam-server
tcp 0 0 22.214.171.124:8888 126.96.36.199:4775 ESTABLISHED 12105/webcam-server
hmm.. seems like it's listening
anything in /var/log/webcam-server ?
does your isp block ports
archivist_emc: I doubt they can block port for localhost :D
* archivist_emc was trying 188.8.131.52:8888 :)
of course the router needs the port opening and forwarding to the pc
:80 is an apache
so I guessed it's directly to jt's pc
yup but adsl routers come closed by default