These look useful: proto-boards for SMT devices. http://www.schmartboard.com/index.asp?page=products_clearance
How would one interface a rotary encoder into the touchy interface? my encoder will be attached to two pins A and B.
Are there likely looking pins in halui?
[00:54:06] <skunkworks> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob_plain;f=src/emc/usr_intf/touchy/design.notes;hb=HEAD
the example file for touchy.hal shows a diferent input pin for each direction. I want to use an encoder and have it work only with the selected input.
You can probably install an encoder module, wire that to the encoder wheel in HAL, and then wire the encoder velocity to the jog velocity
Assuming that you still have the same halui pins in the toucjy interface
what is the parameter in hal for the encoder/
I have looked for it...... not easy to find.
I think I might be over-complicating things.
Have you read the section in the link above which begins:
Touchy has several output pins that are meant to be connected to
the motion controller to control wheel jogging. They are:
there in an input called touchy_wheel_counts is this where i would attach my encoder?
That is where you would connect the encoder "counts" pin, I think.
I admit I am just wildly guessing in the hopes that I will say something so blatently stupid that cradek will feel obliged to step in
Are you using p-port alone?
so i am assuming that there is a encoder counts pin in hal? If so what is the command to attach this pin to two physical input pins A and B
what is p-port?
OK, this is all guesswork...
No I am using two pins on a 5i20...
Does your 5i20 config include any quadrature encoders?
I have used all of these for the servos and head speed. so i am down to using two inputs to creat the quadrature encoder.
No spare pins on the 5i20?
Or, rather, no space to add an encoder?
If you increase the number of encoders in the loadrt hm2_pci.... line does it fall over?
(Note that this stands a fair chance of reassigning all your GPIO pins,,)
I have lots of spare pins. I have not tried to increase the number of encoders.
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
I have a complete 50 pin header unused.
Bear in mind that I am not even sure that an encoder module is the best way to interpret your jog wheel: But you could either try running an extra one in the 5i20 then connecting the wires to the physical pins there
Or use two if the GPIO pins and wire them to a new sofware encoder module in HAL
so worst case I would have to readdess all of my pins.... doable
It isn't a huge problem if you skip encoder counts on a jog wheel, so either way will work
how do you create an software encoder in hal?
To add a quadrature decoder to HAL you need a line something like
point me in a direction please
Let me see if I can find any config files on this computer (the CNC one is in bits)
I will look in hal. so once the encoder is created it gets linked to touchy wheel-counts.
Hmm, one simple way to see what is needed is to create a dummy config with stepconf and see what that does when you say you have a spindle encoder
I think it is going to be:
loadrt encoder num_chan=1
addf encoder.update-counters base-thread
addf encoder.capture-position servo-thread
setp encoder.0.position-scale 1
setp encoder.0.counter-mode 1
Then net encoder.0.phase-A and ...phase-B to your chosen GPIO pins
You probably want to put that stuff in the touchy.hal file
Thank you you have been a great help. Off to wiring and stuff. Again thanks
Good luck, and don't expect any of what I said to work as-is
I f not I'll be back.........
I am going to bed....
hm. any tips on optimizing the base peiod without knowing the stepper-amp specs?
skunkworks: thanks again for all these tapes - what luxury to not have to figure out which ones to overwrite
microchip (the PIC people) had a capacitive touch sensor kit, it had 'rotary knobs' that you 'rotated' by spinning your finger tip on a flat picture of a knob. worked pretty well in Taiwan last year, might be adapted to touchy as a jog device. i think same is used on some kitchen appliances now.
like an ipod?
arent required/recommended backwards? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui_touchy.html
1.1.1 are required for touchy
1.1.2 is something every machine needs but is unrelated to touchy
1.1.3 are optional for touchy
why is cycle start and single block required?
and abort too, for that matter
because you can't start a cycle or execute a single block without them
but but but
why arent they just controls on the screen?
the short answer is because that's not the design: see this http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob_plain;f=src/emc/usr_intf/touchy/design.notes;hb=master
I did some work on the mill today using just the continuous jog switches. it's nice - just like a manual mill with power feeds and DROs.
'work', like cutting with jog buttons?
simple facing/squaring/sizing stuff
beats wrapping a rag around the hand crank and turning for hours
today i blew the fuse in the mill control box, maybe
there were no replacement fuses so nothing else happened
you see it wouldn't turn on, so i started poking around with a multimeter. little did i know the meter probe was plugged into "10A" so it just shorted whatever i was measuring
that's so easy to do
also metering voltage on the ohms setting
ok, touch controls are out of spec (boohoo no arm waving gestures at a theramin to jog)
haha theremin feed override
I hear some people use wireless usb gamepads ... not much better
cradek: do you know how many amps the servos are on the hnc?
hello / salut francais ici ?
hm... anybody able to help with stepper tuning?
i have this stepperdriver http://www.syilamerica.com/docs/CNC_stepper_driver.pdf
run them slow enough not to lose steps
thats what im doing. but i want it faster for the g0. but i have no datasheet and get spurious latency errors sometimes (which seem not to have been hurting me so far)
i'm a bit irritated how to work without knowing which timings the stepperdriver needs, regardless of how good or bad the machine is
i use gentoo, and i want to kwon if tht possible to get EMC on gentoo ??? only source downlaod ?
pouss1n, you can but you need to install the rtai kernel
how to somewhere ?
k i will found
what is the different's between rtai and habitual kernel ?
all the wotk is done for you if you use the ready made live ubuntu CD
i just reading some line fastess, i need to change my system to vanilla source and apply patch of rati
then it s gonna work i think
or... a little computer control on my CNC and dialog with ssh, that is a way acceptable :)
like this i no change my gentoo install
weird... the machine doesnt have smi afaik (too old) but still does spike occationally. but not timed or in regular intervals
22000ns jitter max usually, but something like once a boot it get 2000000
sounds like not really useable
* roh has a suspect... pulseaudio
it does some high-prio shit and tries to get realtime prios even on regular desktops (which is ok there) ,, but it could be its not harmonic with rtai
and its spiking when i try doing audio
alex_joni so far it worked well, even with that
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
the only timing info i got are measured from a demo of mach3 with a config for another syil machine *sigh*
any clue in what units mach3 saves values?
roh: no idea
it should be in the mach manual I guess
did not find it there
sorry.. no idea about Mach
_Poincare is now known as Poincare
archivist_emc, i kwon that seem to not be recommended, but can i patch my "habitualy" kernel with the rtai patch ??? that will work s ?
the how to say : use a clean lernel, but i down wan to pass 2 day for remake a kernel working :oF
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
MarkusBec is now known as MarkusBec_away
archivist_emc, i would like to apply the patch on my kernel, but i haven t the good number for my kernel, i got the lastest source 2.6.30 and rtai patch have only 2.6.23 at maxx, so i apply this one ??? should that work's ? plzz help me :p
I have never patched a kernel
I use the live cd
but i don t want to reboot every time i use emc ....
i m on gentoo 2.6.30, i m trying to apply the patch manualy
you dont want to use the same computer for controlling your mill like for the daily work.
get a dedicated one. doesnt have to ne new
i haven t any machine yet, i want to learn how to prod with the linux interface
my machine is under construction
the patch is in base/arch/x86/
i would like to use EMC
acemi, yes but that will works for another version of kernel ?
there is a patch for 2.6.30
k i try it
3.7.1 have also patch for 2.6.23 , no patch for my kernel version ....
which directory did you look?
i386 or x86
i386 i look in x86
lol that better but still no have 2.6.30
i only ound 2.6.39
i m on it :)
shoud i try 2.6.29 ??
3.7.1 has the patch for 2.6.30
i have download rtai-3.7.1.tar.bz2 and i have only 220.127.116.11-x862.4-01.patch
hmm that's true. you can get it from om
[10:23:08] <acemi> http://cvs.gna.org/cvsweb/magma/base/arch/x86/patches/?cvsroot=rtai
this is for the vanilla kernel 2.6.30
pouss1n you really would be done by now had you taken that old p3 computer from the attic ;)
and it works with 3.7.1
roh want ?????? (i m french i haven t understand what u say :p )
umm...i once tried the x86 patch
it didn't work with emc
i had to use the i386 one
just get the .23 kernel
no big difference to .29, it just lacks some wlan drivers or so
setting up the limits and estop on our mill, Planning on having the limit switches take out the low voltage supply and it'll lock itself out
IE the relay that power to the mesa drivers goes through also powers itself, so if power is lost it cant be re-applied without a manual override
Was wondering how EMC should interact with this
I imagine I can get EMC to send a signal out on it triggering an estop that will open the circuit through the mesa I/O card
but I would like the power on/power off state of emc to mirror that of the actual system
such that If we press the override it powers on again and if we manually trip the estop it knows that the power is off
I dont believe you should just dump power in all cases, eg do a safe powered stop, an unpowered stop can free run and cause more damage
hmmm interesting point
so what cases should cause a power dump?
the subject is a minefield with opposing views
lol, whats your view?
each machine needs a separate design, one size fits all does not apply
read a nice one the other day that had a rotating element, safety boss said this must stop in x secs, so the implemented that and tested, it broke away from the floor and flipped over on the first test
but did it stop?
I read one about an OH&S inspector checking a vacuume chamber, (*big, one, walk in style) at a uni
probably partially a matter of taste also
a previously safe machine (it was very old) now jumps off the floor!
as it was a "pressure vessel" it needed to be inspected etc
the inspector saw that there were valves for venting to the room and insisted that it be closed down until the vents were ducted away incase the vacume started drifting around the lab
sanity eventually prevailed
I am thinking that limit switch hit should mean power off, but now I am thinking a powered halt would be faster
unless its the computer/driver thats gone nuts in the first place
that's what a manual safety switch is for
sanity also was employed on that one I mentioned, it was a friction welder, instead of a separate brake to frame they just used the bring together for weld action
after they stood it up again I'm guessing ;->
celeron55 this thing is able to hit 6 meters a minute + under full control, a full table traverse is about 4 seconds on the long axis, manual stop isn't going to cut it
well, what is going to cut it?
currently I am planning on cutting power to the drives
and hoping it stops travelling before it hits the hard stop
(aka cast iron on iron bang noise)
shunt the motors through a load, so you get engine braking
if it goes so fast, it probably doesn't matter if you cut power at the limit or do nothing
easy with a dual pole relay, but that will leave the driver hanging while the power dies, but e-stop shouldn't care
yep, i was thinking the same
the limit switch is 10mm before the stop
I might look at putting some shocks in on there as well
the full speed traverse into the stop is a worst case affair obviously
most often is going to be running a program and being off center
can't emc put soft stops in? do you have absolute encoder?
no, just linear scales with no absolute
extra limit switches 10cm from the end, could emc be made to enter a "no fast moves" mode?
mmm doesn't feel "right"
it would work quite well, because you get a snapshot of absolute position when you cross the threshhold, so emc would know where the end is and could abort the job if there's no room
I'm not as concerned about it intentionally doing a rapid into the stop
you just said you were :)
"job running off centre" that's human error
that was more a case of the PC or controller latching
yeah one stuck motor driver and you've got worst case scenario
thats what I'm thinking,
I just want to make sure that handling that at all doesn't prevent handling the better stop modes
(and hopefully more common)
e-stop is your friend, although I'm thinking emc could keep an eye out when idle, and trigger it auto
currently our Estop is the 25A fuses on the motors ;->
have both kinds. one with a sledgehammer icon, the other with a scalpel
with a machine that big, you have to kill the power, because the dude with his leg squashed into the motor is getting rather twitchy
its not really that big
its just got 500W motors on it ;->
you just said 25A fuses
I heard you, and so did the ambulance driver
we were blowing the 15A ones while I was tuning it up
How to void your warranty on mesa hardware http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/IMAG0071.jpg
what's that? 4 channels into 1?
with mods like that one should cut the power :)
its bypassing the current limit
a common failure mode of the fets is short from gate to source
drain to source sorry
IE they can fail on ;->
nasty. never used more than NPN myself. even PNP is a bit oo-er
its all mosfets and digital electronics for me, none of this analog voodoo
he said soldering inch thick cables to the power amp
lol they arent *that* big
I was just worried about the extra current frying the board
burning the traces off style
these are small compared to the stuff we use in robots
If i do blow the fets i'll up rate them
we haven't actually managed to heat those up yet though
those should be good for ~30A cont with a bit of cooling
if it is, mesa could copy you
lol mesa was just playing it safe
think of it as the aftermarket turbo charger modification
like in mad max?
and they wanted to make sure that the thermal cutout would work fast enough to stop a mesoplasma event
I'd wanna see a thermal sim in spice+fea before I plugged it in
you can do that, I'll run my mill and let you know if it breaks
cos as yet it hasnt even gotten warm driving these http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/IMAG0026.jpg
[12:30:33] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/mill/IMAG0025.jpg
is a nice shot
mm wasting daylight
its a phat motor ;->
and not bad for $36 new ;->
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
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Valen, anti backlash nuts adapted?
Good morning. everyone survive turkey day?
on the mill, does it have special nuts, or are original ones?
archivist_emc, i have lunch the patch but no verbose appear, should it s normal ?? how mutch time aproximatly ?
pouss1n, did you miss the comment I have never patched the kernel
its running ballnuts with a belville washer antibacklash setup
didn't trust the chinese anti-backlash
Valen: great work
JbLb_ is now known as JbLb
Valen: how many lbs of force do you think you have between the ballnuts?
about "that" much
ttyl, 3:00AM here night
belville washers can be very powerful
enco has their cheapest hss end mills for half price, and free shipping
a favorite pastime of mine is breaking off 1/4 end mills in aluminum...
hehe I was at last years model engineer show when the CamBam stand did the same on his demo machine
my biggest problem is my naive gcode generating software only knows how to plunge into a cut
I'm often too lazy to manually edit it
(maybe cam bam is the same way?)
in aluminum that's a sure way to leave part of the end mill behind :-)
he was traversing in a cut ..bang
dont eat too much in sticky ally without a flood coolant on a flimsy machine in his case
that was my plan for inexpensive zero backlash ballscrews. (belville washers - cheap ball screws and 2 nuts)
I expect "some" friction with that method
I used a stack to press two rollers together, but the paper I was rolling wrinkled, the pressure was then concentrated and the paper put grooves in the steel rollers
I had about two tons of force iirc to roll A4 paper
for a circuit board mill - I would think anything over 20lb of force would be enough. (depending on accelleration ;))
thats at the bottom end of belville pressures
I had this setup on max - it worked perfectly fine for PCBs
you can see the spring there - it was just enough to move the table back if you'd pull on it
cradek: I was actually thinking about dumpstercnc nuts also.
it really doesn't take much to take the slop out
no force cutting pcbs. not much speed either, so accel won't throw the table around except during rapids
jimbo7555_ is now known as jimbo7555
skunkworks, dont forget the other video i put up ;)
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-11-30.txt
jt-plasma, you about?
skunkworks165: thanks again for all those tapes. They are really handy.
cradek: no problem - glad you could use them.
hey, nice superslant video! that's cool.
should last you another 10 years? ;)
is all that noise a hydraulic pump? not a quiet machine.
yes cradek that blumin hydrolic stack under spindle unit
ooh, is that a peck drill cycle with G17.1G83W?
i couldt get it work on W axis does some very odd things in display on axis, like its trying to use it as an offset axis
whats the advantage of a ball nut against a spring one?
tarzan, less friction and better accuracy from ballscrew
lifetime could be the same?
less frictions make for a longer lifetime
does 0.37kW sound too small for a live-tool spindle on a small lathe? Maybe max 6mm diam endmills would be used, spindle max rpm would be 12krpm
= 1/2 hp on 1/4" tool, seems fine
there's a 0.37kW VFD I could pick up for 120eur
siemens micromaster 420
the motors run at max rpm with 400Hz 3-phase AC. they sell them with either ER11 or ER16 collet spindle
ER is perfect for that - you can get a range of mm collets and hold any size - taps and reamers have odd sizes.
welll it won't have the power for that kind of thing, will it
more for engraving and cutting flats and stuff?
awallin, what model of AC motor is suitable is such case?
not sure, I'm looking at these http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/spindle-motors-c-71.html?osCsid=0f9ad975b8cb8c0ff64b7dfde1f9a0aa
cradek, do you think the stock servo amps and the pico resolver converter board would be better than going with the pico servo amps, assuming they could both be done for the same price?
resolver converter was only up to 1000rpm
is that a limit for you ?
i think i can get those amps and some encoders for roughly the same cost as the resolver converters
the servo amp probably wants only hall-signals if you drive it in torque mode with EMC2
i'd have to check the ballscrew pitch
the stock servo amp, or the pico one?
what power servos do you want to drive?
awallin: 1000 RPS RPS RPS
I think I keep correcting you on that...
i'm not sure yet, the labels are long gone
i doubt they are over 20a though
the pico-systems amps want only hall signals. a stock servo amp should want only hall-sigs in torque mode I think
they look like brushed dc servos
no pics yet... it's a hardinge HNC if it helps
yes they're brushed DC
this is a late 70s machine
you lost me on the torque mode.. i havent gotten that far yet
I"m sure pico has a drive that will run those motors in torque (~= current) mode
20A momentarily I think, not continuous
i did see that the pico amps used hal signals
you would have to buy and mount encoders of course
yea thats no biggie
i can get encoders cheap locally
hall-signals are only for brushless. HAL is something else... :)
lots of machines getting parted out around here lately
if you have working, stable, velocity mode amps - I can't see replacing them. velocity control is superior to torque.
they seem to work well cradek
torque can approach it - if you get the highest encoder resolution possible
just want to explore my options before pulling the trigger
maybe you should call and talk to jon elson
kirk wallace (I think it was kirk) has one and he used the pico amps. from watching his videos and talking to him, I think he could not get anything like the original amps' acceleration
his machine looks really sluggish compared to mine
but maybe he's just conservative with it - I don't have a lot to go on
yea, the machine moves suprising quick
WAY faster than my shizuoka
i gotta call on those fanuc converter boards
that pico makes
i cant tell if it's only for 1 encoder, or 4
looks like 4 from the picture
fanuc encoder converter boards*
still wondering if you can get one index pulse per rev from a resolver?
anyway I will be mounting an incremental encoder on my resolver-servo
awallin: yes you can. they are an absolute positioning device.
i need to get some home/limit switches on my machine
awallin: the pico board has an index pulse out
i kinda think i need to so i can easily home my toolchanger
i think i need to have it tool out before i home the turret, which means the machine needs to be in a certain spot, meaning i need home switches to do that easily
(on my mill, not the lathe)
awallin: Won't the encoder have an index?
yes. I will not use the resolver at all
Though I think that resolver is just an ac voltage ratio, so a bit of A/D and DSP would work it.
sure... I'm just trying the KISS principle with everything this time round
for the mill I was eager to build and design everything myself
You could easily waste 24 or more IO bits trying to do it in software too
if there's a way of getting 20+ bit angle resolution out of them I'm interested for a telescope mount
that's over one million pulses per rev
I was thinking two lots of 12 bits.
was looking at ebay item 110462725615 for a telescope mount...
It's all in foreign!
Nice thing though.
[21:01:13] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_variable_differential_transformer
hm, some resolvers are listed as having +- 5 arc min electrical error
anyone here familiar with heekscnc ? :)
[21:07:20] <awallin> http://www.moog.com/products/resolvers/low-cost-brushless-pancake-resolvers/size-22/
still about a factor 300x from the arc-sec resolution required
MrSunshine: I know there's been nice progress with heeks lately
but I guess the build-process is not trivial, and there are a lot of bugs still
well, i need help with the zigzag operation in heeks ... :)
yeey my first real heekscnc cadding is to become reality tomorrow =)
hope it works :P
problem is my motors losing steps for some reason on Z ... now and then :/
MrSunshine too fast?
numen_, nah .. i think its something with the screw going a bit heavy ... have to look into it :) .. it screams of the screw when i run it fast even tho ive lubricated it
numen_, cant go over like 400 mm/min without it hicking up while other axis i can take well above 1000
what a kind of screw?
i think its a M10 they have grineded down the edges on :P
im converting a seig X1
gonna try with real fat as lubrication .. atm its just oil
normal m10 screw?
can you show a pic of the mill?
not atm more then the pics that is on the net of the stock mills =)
no its trapezoid leadscrews on the X1
with 2mm pitch
DaViruz, on Z ? :P
on X and Y yes
on Z its some grinded down M10 screw :P
indeed it is
i use grease on mine, oil didn't quite cut it
i guess it wouldnt harm to put a cogged belt drive on it to make it a bit stronger as the mill head is kinda heavy
i have a compressed gas s pring to counter weight it
i hate beeing in train
I am getting a problem with EMC2, it's crashing at begin
what do you mean with crashing?
What does dmesg say?
numen_: oh, I saw just now the error message: /msg NickServ identify
it says: /home/cas/emc2/configs/zenbot-emcrepstrap/repstrap-extruder.hal:20: pin 'pyvcp.extruder-connection' does not exist
Do you have a link to your pyvcp file in the ini file?
And does that create the pin?
yes... but maybe something is wrong.. can you please verify on my ini file? http://pastebin.com/m48b63ccc
I am trying to follow the instrctions on this page, for making a 3D printer using EMC2 and my CNC: http://objects.reprap.org/wiki/EMCRepStrap
can you pastebin the pyvcp file too?
Ah, wait. A bit of reading indicates the problem. You can't refer to pyvcp components until the GUI is loaded, so the pyvcp references need to go in cutom_posgui.hal
I don't understand...
I got it... but after uncommented line #POSTGUI_HALFILE = custom_postgui.hal
well, after commented that line, under [HAL] section...
EMC2 is now running with that custom gui :-)
anyone know how to broadcast a web cam to a web page
andypugh: thanks ;-)
jt-plasma: there are various ways
the easiest is to set up periodic snapshots, then ftp them up
more complecated scenarios involve mpeg streaming
or motion jpeg
using w3web or something like that?
Jymmm, you around??????????
LawrenceG: Leave a message at the beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
hey... have you ever heard of a windows live CD? I have to update the firmware in my dvdrw and all they provide is a windows exe..... doesnt work in wine
LawrenceG: Yes, but it's a pita.
It might work for that though, hang on.
[22:25:45] <Jymmm> http://www.intowindows.com/create-live-xp-cd-how-to/
the snapshots sound like what I need
Jymmm, looks easier to plug in a spare hd and install xp then do the update...
andypugh: can you please give a quick look at this instructions: file:///media/disk/reprap/sam0737-hrepstrap/README/README.html#setup_guide
andypugh: I mean here: http://github.com/sam0737/hrepstrap/raw/master/README/README.txt
re from home
it refers to [AXIS] section on init filebut I don't see that section on my init... :-(
here are 30cm snow...
LawrenceG: Heh told ya it's a pita =)
why is it so cold here?
Sorry Casainho, I was in the workshop
I feel vaguely guilty that Casainho left before I came back. But if he need help from me he really does have problems.