hmm.. anybody a clue of spindle-drivers?
i got this one: http://www.sh-belong.com/BC2000.htm
works well, with manual pot. now i want to control it from emc
[00:53:55] <roh> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=cn&tl=en&u=http://www.sh-belong.com/BC2000.htm
helps a bit, but i am at a loss when it comes to 'usual behaviour'
does 0-10V override the pot?
did you buy theoptional isolated input card?
of course not. we got it with the mill
the card doesnt seem to exist in the internetz
peter homan know what to do with it?
ive started drawing a schematic of the card, but its a lengthy process. i am that far that i can tell it is having 2 thyristors and 2 diodes making 'regulated dc' from the line-ac
you just need to figure out which KB card it is a ripoff from
the thyristors are driven via a small ring-transformer from what seems to be a oamp based analog circuit
the pot which is connected to P 123 is fed with a z-diode regulated dc and has 3 extra trimmers, one for upper, one for lower boundary and one for 'accel' which is bridged by a diode and connected to I1
I2, F2 are same potential.
A- is F- via some shunt
A+ is thytistor regulated '+
F- is basically 'gnd'
my current guess is: I1 and I2 are my '0-10V input' when i take care of the opto-isolation
anyone interested in adding the Howto on EMC2 with ArchLinux to the wiki? http://neo-technical.wikispaces.com/emc2-arch
the Howto with recent versions of Ubuntu (9.04, 9.10 ..etc) is also at http://neo-technical.wikispaces.com/emc2-ubuntu
you can add it yourself... did you know
wiki access is public?
no account necessary?
read the basic steps link at the bottom of the main page
[01:15:11] <BigJohnT> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
wow, and no problems with spammers
we kill spammers with a laser beam from Michael
or weld them to the floor with Alex
every other project I've ever worked on has only granted edit rights to trusted devs.
wiki is community maintained
yea, Valen we grind them to plasma dust
any suggestions on the simplest way to setup EMC to control 1 servo for position, I finally have some time to try a Mesa 7143 with HostMot2
are you using dev or 2.3?
use one of the samples then
and modify it
to suit your needs
someone mentioned that I could just use HAL
use a sample config then mod it to suit
* roh measured I2 to I1 and gets 1.1-8.7V DC
yeah, it looks like I'll be stripping it down, I'm just looking for where I can enter values for position from another program for position
I don't understand
I'd like to just send position info to EMC to move a motor , not a GUI front end with a user interface
or you could use nml
I'm still trying to see how EMC connects to HostMot2, since the FPGA servo controller is doing all the encoder counting for position and ramping the servo +/- 10vdc
hostmot2 is the interface to the fpga
hostmot2 basically just runs the encoders
and the PWM outputs
the "host" tells the FPGA what PWM rate to put out
how is a spindle usually wired?
i mean how does manual userinterface and pwm control 'interact'
whats overriding what and how do you wire it?
I think most spindles have some kind of square wave input
you would typically I'd image do all the setup on the VFD then let the VFD take the input from the PWM line
[01:45:20] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.homanndesigns.com/
check this guy out
roh has a dc motor
valen: so what is actually controlling the ramp for the PWM output?
host = EMC2?
i am reverse-engineering our controller currently and still not sure how i want to make it 'being used'
emc tells hostmot2
eric_unterhausen i've seen that stuff, but will propably brew something up myself
roh, he has already done what you want to do, you could try to understand what he is doing
I wasn't sure if EMC just set vales in the fpga so that it would compute the ramp up and down itself
eric_unterhausen i know. but buying anything from the us is more pain than soldering smd by hand for a year.
no that is another mode that is possible with mesa stuff
eric_unterhausen so i wouldnt buy it even if its 10$
he's in australia
but emc doesn't use it
eric_unterhausen doesnt matter.. same shit money-wise
yeah, australians are awesome
eric_unterhausen nothing against the guy, but buying anything from outside europe isnt going to happen if there is not a _extremely_ good reason
eric_unterhausen sometimes it really feels like somebody is trying to make me not buy stuff from overseas ;)
whats wrong with buying from australia?
we know the rest of the world exists
raster eric_unterhausen what i dont get from the descriptions is: why 10 models, if nearly all do exactly the same?
I don't know about that , but it seems like you would want the most expensive one for some reason
Valen sure, australia is less hassle than the us, the uk, or americas in general, but shipping is expensive and or takes ages and moving mones isnt exactly fun.
Valen i have neither creditcard, nor paypal, and am not planning to change that soon.
Valen moving money within europe (which excludes UK) is joy compared to what ive had in other experiences.
ordering in europe as b2b usually means i have the stuff 24-48h later, and the money transfer doesnt cost a cent. with asia i have experiences with like 12E booking fees
my beagleboard from the us never arrived since of some braindead export crap... i think they must have confused it with WMD or so
normally you should be able to do a bank to bank transfer for about 2-3% fee on the exchange rate
Valen the bank already earns from having the money either on the start or the end of the transaction for some time. so there is no reason for transfer fees.
thats a nice world that you live in
roh: were you working on the port of EMC to ARM?
L84Supper nope, but i am happy when it does one day.
Valen well.. its the law afaik
thats not a transfer fee its a currency conversion fee
Valen when using IBAN/BIC transfer codes any money-order withing europe shall be free of charge
and conversion isnt an issue since its all euro
remark that i exccluded uk.. they really do not want to trade. its so evil that one couldnt even sell them something fairly since they seem to have no way of transfering money without extreme fees (like 9E or so per transaction)
also its difficult to get a proper invoice which your tax-office likes ;)
tlab2 is now known as tlab
sorry about yesterday... got real hectic here and I had to go out
that kit link you sent looks interesting
Yeah, would like to simplify it to a ref and clock
I still think using a 5328a as a base is good.... it gives you the case, power supply, 10mhz oven oscillator and a nice piece of test gear
why a counter?
just add gps correction to the counter internal reference
how much are they?
well... you probably need a counter anyway and they have very stable 10,hz osc...... about $25 on epay
[02:45:34] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-5328A-Universal-Counter-w-option-031-to-1-3GHz_W0QQitemZ320449907049QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9c4d8969
for a 5328a?
that one has the 1.3ghz channel c option
add you ardinio and a gps module
LawrenceG: I dont know, take sthe fun out of it, and makes you dependant upon HP availability
[02:49:47] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-5328A-Universal-Counter-W-Option-020-3475_W0QQitemZ320443853058QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9bf12902
that one has the volt meter option, but no channel C... only counts to 100mhz
[02:51:39] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-Agilent-5328A-010-130-Universal-Counter-W-010-130_W0QQitemZ140359534937QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae148959
the above guy likes them a lot!
hey... thats why I bought several and only use one on the bench... cheap spare parts
ok, not to be a smartass but what else could I use the counter for?
[02:54:11] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-5328A-UNIVERSAL-COUNTER-0_W0QQitemZ230387676026QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a42cf37a
FUCK I hate when ppl make the website so big on ebay!
[02:54:23] <L84Supper> http://www.linuxcnc.org/images/stories/EMC_Control_LG.gif
why did I just find this now?
... and the text jsut doens't wrap
damn CSS bullshit!
I am sure CSS stands for something rude
LawrenceG: Yes it does... Cascading Style Sheets
that wasnt what I was thinking!
and the idoiots that dont know how to use them properly!
LawrenceG: and sloe your a55 down on the links, I'm still reading the first one =)
LawrenceG: ok =)
LawrenceG: I'm gong to say no on the counter.
LawrenceG: It's nice and all, but what I was thinking is it might be nice to turn this intp a nice lil project others could be for a reasonable price and without depenancy on something specific
hey..... you are lucky... half those guys wont ship to Canada... it must be too hard to spell
LawrenceG: waiting in line for customs form processing.
LawrenceG: But if there's something you need, I'll take care of you.
I was cruising the Usps site today and they have all the shipping and customs forms online for priority international mail
even a $5 discount if you do it online
LawrenceG: Right, but you have to get in line to send the package
LawrenceG: you can't just leave it with normal mail
hmmm could be..... they probably want to check your id before they will accept the package
No, just must take all international packages to post office
anyway.... back to ref project =)
LawrenceG: One issue I've come across is how to get a remote GPS antenna that has 100 feet back to the GPS itself.
without degrading the signal
that is a challenge ... I have 1 antenna with a 20' lead..... probably better to remote the gps and the antenna... I wonder if a bluetooth module would be good for beaming data around (serial data)
Need the PPS signal
does ardiniio have bluetooth? yea... I guess you have to have your lab withing 20' of a view of the sky... attic??
LawrenceG: I really would want to use a transmitter on a refernece if oyu know what I mean
I have thought of using mine as a reference for the rig, but there are several rig xtals that would have to be replaced with synthesized signals, and the phase noise will get bad in a hurry
could be good with an SDR project
then you need the sound card ref locked to the standard
Maybe, but my intensions are to have a stand alone box. to external dependancies
ha, I just made a pcb on jr
so silly to see it drilling with a .020 drill
ha, don't tell me your machines don't have names
ours is milly
cradek, hope you balanced that 0.020"drill dont want jr to hop across the shop
what is the top spindle speed on jr?
better than the 3000 I have on the shoptask
yeah the bp is about that - makes small tools less fun
pcb's are slow to make when the spindle is so slow.... I mill about 3 or 4 "/min
for doing pcbs you really need 20-40k...
bumping up the feedrate by 10x would be quite noticeable!
yeah that would be very nice
heh..thats why we bought the proxxon
[03:25:01] <LawrenceG> http://imagebin.ca/view/RRFIsDw.html
... my next plexi machining project... side lit with leds's and a small rear piece mounted on a stepper to display antenna headings
that sure looks cool
that's a lot of math
it should look cool
LawrenceG: is that the artwork you are going to use?
bags not writing the gcode for that by hand
yes... it imports nicely into vcarve... I have a script that will generate the map for any co-ordinates....
LawrenceG: If you want vector art, let me know.
LawrenceG: what size stepper?
[03:33:38] <LawrenceG> http://filebin.ca/nsaajs/map1.ngc
I have the vector art, but converting it to gcode loses the line width info.... vcarve cuts it from the png preserving the line width
LawrenceG: See PM
ok added HOWTO for EMC2 on 9.04 and 9.10 plus ArchLinux to the wiki
L84Supper, thankyou... that stuff can be a pain to figure out
no problem, we suffered through it a couple of weeks ago
now I just have to master EMC itself :)
I guess I need a couple more 1/8 ER40 collets...
cradek, I bought a http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220431098460&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:ca
... maybe build a spindle from it
er11 collets will be a lot cheaper than er40's
there is another listing that included a set of collets
[04:02:10] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110432317758
this was the one I bought..... would work nicely in jr
cradek, price is hard to beat
thanks for the pointers
maybe the guy would sell it with 9 1/8 collets
why would you want multiples of ER collets?
I have several chucks and sometimes want to use several 1/8" tools
I mostly use 3 tools for pcb's.... a #63 drill, a 60degree vbit and a 0.1" rasp for cutouts
hm... how is direction usually switched? relay?
LawrenceG : do you etch or mill the PCB traces?
since he says 60 degree V bit, he definitely mills the traces
Learning curves suck
I'm trying to program in C :/
I feel that way when I try to use any language but C
<- old dog
Well, my current problem is deciphering a compiler error
"error: expected ')' before ';' token"
sometimes those mean just what they say, and you can fix it on the line it gives. other times, the error is earlier in the file and it finally got suitably confused at the given line
hm. you you all use vfd or how do you wire up your spindles?
do you still have 'manual control' or just a 'power switch' and let the pc controll it all the time?
fighting paper on planning how to wire up the relais and or which ones to use/get
spindle on/off under computer control and a manual speed control knob is just fine for a mill
for a lathe you really want full speed control for CSS
well manual speed control is fine for a manual tool change machine - if you have a tool changer, you sure want cnc speed control
it would be easy to make it pure 'automatic use' XOR 'manual use' .. but here we need both
thats what makes it complicated right now
Well, my test code works - at least well enough to determine that I have a hardware problem :/
The 74ALS573 I'm using is either fried or too slow - the datasheets say to use a 74AHC573
coldelectrons : how fast a switching sped do you need?
L84Supper: I'm trying to use the external memory bus feature of an AVR atmega1280, and it's clocked at 16MHz
AHC is only a couple ns faster than ALS typically and they are both suitable for 16MHz
I just found one bug in my breadboarding - I forgot to enable the latches' output XD
that will do it
was is floating?
Yes, I tied it to low
i want to get emc2 just for simulation on this computer ... but i dont get the git stuff on this page: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_git
do i first have to check out the latest branch THEN go over to 2.3.3 ?
you can checkout any version you wish
but i dont know how to work git ..
so HOW do i check out any verison i wish
what is the exact line to check out release 2.3.3 ?
maybe dont even need to use git :P
git checkout RELEASE_2_3_3
yes i do ...
L84Supper, ye, biut cant just write that ... how does it know the server? :)
[06:42:03] <L84Supper> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_git
has all the steps
MrSunshine_, make sure you are in the source directory for emc2 e.g. /home/sunshine/emc2
L84Supper, but if i do the "first step" git clone git://git.linuxcnc.org/git/emc2.git emc2-dev downloads the head of the source doe right ?
so i need to download the head first then convert that to a branch ?
feels a bit stupid :P
but then again, never liked git nor understood it
I tend to avoid anything but git.
[07:15:26] <MrSunshine__> http://pici.se/505814/?size=fullsize
that doesnt look quite right at the bottom there does it? :/
probalby libarea or smth that generates that path?
dunno .. i guess so :)
its a damns tupid place to start at atleast :P
set the start and end points elsewhere
it's not elegant but it's easier to control my servo position through generating GCODE than talking directly to EMCTASK with NML
celeron55_, well ... then i get huge circles all over the place :P
however i try and change the values :P
you also could try to disable the start and end curves
...or something, i don't like the way the profiling operation works anyway
changed rolloff to 0 and it looks better atleast
what are those roll off stuff and that good for ?
anyone familiar with heeks ? ... i have a sketch .. and i want to zigzag it .. but it says i have no solids ... wtf to do? :)
bi-directional opto... http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=A10351
Jymmm: not bi-directional in that sense
pants on fire
yors that is
[09:52:33] <alex_joni> http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/motorola/H11AA2.pdf
they mean you can apply forward or reverse voltage to one side, and the other side gets triggered
but you can't connect it to a parport for example and use it as input or output without rewiring
the datasheet lies too!
it's a conspiracy I tell ya!
I'm sure it is
alex_joni: Well, it was almost a nice find =)
alex_joni: Gonna get a few of these though... http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16267
did you look at switch life?
datasheet says 15000 operations min.
that's 1000 rotations
rotation life: 15000 T min (no idea what T means)
domestic use crap
probably more than enough if you turn it by hand
but surely not ok if you plan to use it as an encoder
no, no, just as a control.
then it's probably fine
otherwise you'll replace it every other hour
* Jymmm wants to build this http://www.hanssummers.com/images/stories/gpsref/circuit/circuit.gif
the power supply part is pretty stupid
why do you say that?
there's a 5V regulator powered from a 8V regulator, powered from a 12V regulator?
and another 5V regulator powered directly from the 12V regulator
I'm not saying it won't work..
well if they want 12V, 8V and 5V
its not htat stupid :P
more then that they waste the power that the 8V can give
I think it's for added regulation
There's also a 7803 not on that schematic
MrSunshine__: sure it is
there are 5V regulators you can plug into 40V
no need to use the 12V one
you only get higher consumption on the 12V one
and you add the convertion losses
alex_joni: I think it's for added regulation
Jymmm: I doubt it helps
anyways.. I used the same thing in the past 7812->7805 and it wasn't optimal
I'll email and ask him. i am a little curious myself why he went that route. more so why he used two 7805's
well, if you take lots of current from the 5V linear regulator you might want to use 12V for it rather than something higher to spread the heating of the regulators
see added series R to one 5v reg
archivist: yes, that looks strange
two 39 ohm in parallel
archivist: where do you see that?
oh, I see it now
why does one want to use inductors in regulating 5V for an AVR
seems quite overkill
I would tend to say the guy is a nut with his regulation
No, it's a reference
i've used avr's with 7805's even without any capacitors and they work well (though that's not very clever either)
7805 is a poor reference
not voltage, time
But even so... why would he use different caps on the 7805's
he has no clue
Well, i woudn't say that... http://www.hanssummers.com/gpsref.html
what is that circuit used for
Just builds a LOT of stuff by hand
celeron55_: see link
I see errors in the control of the ocxo
oh, he does explain it... I found it wasn't capable of supplying much current and in any case, the microcontroller ins't supposed to like a supply voltage as high as 6V. Instead, I powered the microcontroller off its own separate triple-regulated chain, consisting of +12V -> +8V -> +5V. The +5V supply to the microcontroller was then further filtered. Probably overkill, but should ensure a really stable noise-free supply voltage to the microcon
troller, which is important because it will determine the stability of the pulse width modulation (PWM) output which I use to control the OCXO frequency.
hello anyone knows how to get the current position as variable in EMC2 GCODE??
MOGLI, I tend to maintain a variable of my own
archivist: what do you see with the OCXO ?
Jymmm, low value R there will be a pwm rate modulation on the signal
archivist: That's exactly what he's doing
using PWM to control the OCXO
but how you maintain variable??
should be using a d-a
MOGLI, set it to a value at the start of the routine
archivist: i mean to say my gcode is in absolute position with the center of 0 0 0 and i want to start cutting from any position you get my point???
MOGLI, O lot of us have relative moves in the subroutine and out side we move to x,y etc
I think you are really asking about the touch off at the start of your program
archivist: ok got your point.. i should use relative moves.. but now the problem is whenever i want to Re-start program than i need start point positions
you can use G53 G0 x,y,z<abs pos>
any PHP programmers around?
* jthornton finds a php channel :)
xml parsing can be "fun"
my first thought was "why tie myself to an XML lib" but then you find you're reinventing a wheel
libxml2 is my current choice
one is pretty much like another :)
once you've loaded it, it's just a tree
archivist I'm still trying to get to the XML parsing part :)
btw libxml2 is C, not php afaik
there are wrappers for various languages, i'm not sure about php though
it may have a C++ version too, but I wouldn't know about that either :)
i've used the C++ wrapper
not working ? <Viper-7> $doc = new DOMDocument(); $doc->load('http://example.com/somefile.ext');
MarkusBec_away is now known as MarkusBec
archivist I'll have to test it this evening I'moff to work now :)
G01 F#14 Z[0-#5]...what does the [o-#5] mean? does it mean z will move from 0 to #5 or will z go to #1..#2...#3.......?
[o-#5] is a syntax error
[0-#5] means zero minus the value in variable 5
that's what's in the file mpictor sent
you can read about expressions here http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode_overview.html#sub:Expressions
#5 = .06
I'm tempted to cantilever my X. It may be easier than putting a belt between the Z sfor insurance
and I'd get a free 20 deg of B axis
and there's fewer jamming worries if the 2 Zs aren't perfectly aligned
ok i understand the minus sign...but why would i write that instead of g01 f#14 z[-#5] ?
crappy parsers. emc may handle it but old machines may not
gah, i need a face milling program! =)
just a zigzag over a given face area
MrSunshine_, write the gcode
bit its lots of lines :P
no its very few lines
use a subroutine and iterate
simple loop would do, you move one axis at a time, Shirley
dont call me Shirley
left, right, shuffle forwards, repeat
my wifes name is shirley... She still has not made it though the whole airplane movie.
its a good thing you can get the RK Suppressors with a quantity discount :/
Does the difference between coarse-pos-cmd and joint-pos-fb give f-error?
Guest880 that doesn't look quite right to me, but are you having following errors?
eric No, just playing with servo tuning, but I'm not sure if I'm interpreting halscope correctly
I go to this website linuxcnc.org I wonder which I should download?
the 6.06 or the 8.04
xkurtx, probably the 8.04
I would go with 8.04
eric_unterhause1 OK I give that a try thank you.
why are there two though?
[17:58:13] <Neo_The_User> http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/ubuntu-8.04-desktop-emc2-aj13-i386.iso
That iso has emc included
yes that is what I want
I don't really know, some older version might work better on older comps
There are two because only the LTS releases are officially supported.
but I don't think that 6.06 would help with that
yes I have an older computer I wish to try the program on
8.04 is suitable for old pcs
Neo that is good
Everything is still i486. It's not like i686 like archlinux.
I have a Pentium III 500
emc will work on it?
That is i686 :)
it's hard to know. It should
eric yes that is why I must try it out
It should since your architecture supports it.
I have a PIII that I couldn't get the latency down
depends on the bios
eric so only way to know is try and see?
eric yes thank you what I thought but I did not know.
make sure to follow the wiki on reducing latency
eric, was that w a matrox gfx?
I tried a matrox
pretty sure it was the bios
so it's not a universal cure then
it was a later pIII
I probably need to see if I can find a better PC
if you are doing software stepping you probably do
but the early P4 are not good candidates usually
eric my motor drivers are step and direction is that software stepping?
xkurtx, keep in mind that I have a 2.2 GHz CPU and a Radeon 4650 PCI E 2.0 and my latency is around 60,000
unless I am writing /dev/null to /dev/zero :P
Neo I am not sure if that is good or bad
It's pretty bad.
Neo_The_User: that's not very good
I'm not using emc on this computer anyway so it's ok
my desktop has really good latency, but I'm not hooking it up to the mill
and I know a quick fix! sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null
yes i have a better PC but it is not for machine
my last desktop is going on the mill, worst case latency was 12000
now I worry this will not work for me
you can try it
there are a lot of PIII that will do fine
eric yes I will try and see
eric that is great news!
I can only hope mine is one of those
Intel started goofing around with their architecture, and made real time a lot harder at the p4 generation
worst case is you won't be able to use your machine full speed
things seem to be getting better
so Intel P4 not so good?
the Intel Atom seems to be able to do real time
I've had good luck with AMD
on my athlon 1800 its really god
eric yes luck is what I need.